Mythic's Barnet should not design games

[Ammon777]

Proof inside:

"People like the illusion of choice," Barnet explained. "They like a long menu at a restaurant despite the fact they will always order from the same three things." [Oh Rly?]

He used Sid Meier's Civilization series as an example of a game suffering from a glut of options over the course of several entries.

"Designers are obsessed with adding in ideas," he said. "Civilization 1 [was] strong as anything, and then progresses into cuckoo-land complexity before finally returning to its roots with Civilization Revolution."

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=19660

Barnett, you stupid fucker, people want choice and freedom, thats why your class-based, level-based MMOs suck ballz.

And currently I play Civilization 4 with mods that multiply its complexity a hundred fold, and it is a fucking awesome game, I enjoy complexity and having many options, you fucktarded albino monkey.

Maybe all your typical 13-year-old retarded over-priveleged fagz that play the endless shitty Everquest clones cant make decisions on their own so have to have someone like Paul fuckin Barnett hold their hands for them?

Sorry Paul-fagboy, you minimalistic designing duschbag, but I would rather make my own in-game decisions in a complex MMO with full freedom and myriad options, thats why Darkfall is gonna blow WAR out of the water gameplay-wise.

I dont need Paul Barnett limiting my options just because he thinks "oh nobody really likes options anymore." What a ***. It will be noted very soon that Paul Barnet actually is merely a hype instigator like Funcom and not a very good designer. Down the road, he is going to make a huge design mistake and it will implode on him like that Vanguard tard *cough* Brad *cough* McFag *cough*.

I can do better game design than that tard. First game I get 100 million to design will feature player freedom, lots of options, and no fucking levels and class archetypes. Oh wait, someone already made that, its called DARKFALL.

So my message today for forumfall is: Fuck you, Barnett.

[Ramses]

Haha, I agree with you but you really need to chill out dude. Just don't buy his game, or maybe present your opinion in a more public venue with half an ounce of civility.

[Tiarilir]

What mods are you playing?

[Ammon777]

I know, i am just venting my anger here and now.

And where, like at mmorpg.com? :lmao:

People at mmorpg.com still believe Darkfall is vaporware! In fact, I posted reasons why i am looking forward to Darkfall over there and I got banned for a month by some power-happy moderator.

No, my friend. There is no where else.

[Honorius]

Maybe all your typical 13-year-old retarded over-priveleged fagz that play the endless shitty Everquest clones cant make decisions on their own so have to have someone like Paul fuckin Barnett hold their hands for them?

I take offense to this.

[Ammon777]

What mods are you playing?
uhhhh... I jump around on several mods, here they are, all of them are BtS 3.17:

-- Fall from Heaven II + Fall Further mod addition
-- Thomas War 2.1
-- Rise of Mankind 2.2
-- Rise and Fall of Roman Empire
-- Wolfshanze 1850-1920 Enhancement Mod v2.0
-- Road to War Add-On Pack 3 BETA for 3.17
-- Giant Earth Map - Version 5.2 (BTS)
-- Sevomod
-- JKP1187's Not Just Another NextWar Mod

IMO the best ones are Fall from Heaven 2 and Rise of Mankind 2.

[Ammon777]

I take offense to this.

lawl wut? :lmao:

[Tiarilir]

uhhhh... I jump around on several mods, here they are, all of them are BtS 3.17:

-- Fall from Heaven II + Fall Further mod addition
-- Thomas War 2.1
-- Rise of Mankind 2.2
-- Rise and Fall of Roman Empire
-- Wolfshanze 1850-1920 Enhancement Mod v2.0
-- Road to War Add-On Pack 3 BETA for 3.17
-- Giant Earth Map - Version 5.2 (BTS)
-- Sevomod
-- JKP1187's Not Just Another NextWar Mod

IMO the best ones are Fall from Heaven 2 and Rise of Mankind 2.

I currently only play Fall from heaven II, without the Fall Further addition (what does it do anyways?) and the ocassional game of "Rhye's and fall of Civilization"

[Kietharr]

Proof inside:

"People like the illusion of choice," Barnet explained. "They like a long menu at a restaurant despite the fact they will always order from the same three things." [Oh Rly?]

He used Sid Meier's Civilization series as an example of a game suffering from a glut of options over the course of several entries.

"Designers are obsessed with adding in ideas," he said. "Civilization 1 [was] strong as anything, and then progresses into cuckoo-land complexity before finally returning to its roots with Civilization Revolution."

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=19660

Barnett, you stupid fucker, people want choice and freedom, thats why your class-based, level-based MMOs suck ballz.

And currently I play Civilization 4 with mods that multiply its complexity a hundred fold, and it is a fucking awesome game, I enjoy complexity and having many options, you fucktarded albino monkey.

Maybe all your typical 13-year-old retarded over-priveleged fagz that play the endless shitty Everquest clones cant make decisions on their own so have to have someone like Paul fuckin Barnett hold their hands for them?

Sorry Paul-fagboy, you minimalistic designing duschbag, but I would rather make my own in-game decisions in a complex MMO with full freedom and myriad options, thats why Darkfall is gonna blow WAR out of the water gameplay-wise.

I dont need Paul Barnett limiting my options just because he thinks "oh nobody really likes options anymore." What a ***. It will be noted very soon that Paul Barnet actually is merely a hype instigator like Funcom and not a very good designer. Down the road, he is going to make a huge design mistake and it will implode on him like that Vanguard tard *cough* Brad *cough* McFag *cough*.

I can do better game design than that tard. First game I get 100 million to design will feature player freedom, lots of options, and no fucking levels and class archetypes. Oh wait, someone already made that, its called DARKFALL.

So my message today for forumfall is: Fuck you, Barnett.

Anyone who actually enjoyed Civilization Revolution is either a fucking idiot or someone who never played a civ game before. Civilization was one of the few games that actually got better over time until Sid started getting greedy, throwing out dumbed down shoddy games like Revolutions and the upcoming colonization remake, which will basically be a glorified civ4 mod.

Civ4 is probably the best turn based strategy game ever. Seriously, you can fully customize your game and the learning curve is actually somewhat decent. Any monkey can win at Settler or Chieftain level, you can still win with some game knowledge even without knowing how to micro at noble or prince. At Immortal and Diety the game is essentially fucking impossible unless you are truly skilled. No matter how good or bad you are at the game, there is always a difficulty that will fit you. It beats out Civ3 on the basis of a much better combat system (you still lose units at high odds or against very strong defenses occasionally, but you never lose a tank to a spearman in a straight up fight) and more realistic territory expansion (expand too fast without consolidating and you fucking collapse, unlike in civ3 where expanding as fast as possible was the objective).

[-Havoc-]

I order the same thing everytime at every restaurant I go to, so his game design philosophy is 100% correct.

[Ammon777]

I currently only play Fall from heaven II, without the Fall Further addition (what does it do anyways?) and the ocassional game of "Rhye's and fall of Civilization"
Fall Further adds a new fantasy civilization to Fall from Heaven II. I think it has a few unique units for that civ.

[Aragoni]

I've pre-ordered the CE Ammon777, you should do it too! :D

[Ramses]

Unfortunately what Barnett says is becoming a trend in the game industry it seems. RPGs are supposed to be about building a character, and the building blocks games like WoW and it appears WAR will give are extremely limited. The only choices you had in WoW were the talent trees and a very limited crafting decision at high levels.

The reason I liked SWG is because it was skill-tree based, and I could be any sort of hybrid I wanted to be until the NGE. Choice is actually the chief factor for me in enjoying a game. I played the City of Heroes/Villains trial for a while and that had much more choice that WoW, so I enjoyed it, but other elements like over-use of instances and leveling killed it for me. Still, the customization both in appearances and in hero/villain abilities made the game entertaining for despite its flaws.

I wish something like the customization of Spore would come into the MMO market... I guess Darkfall is the closest thing and that's why we're here.

[Desperado[1G]]

OP is a retard

Paul barnett is a lying scumbag, though. That much I can agree with.

[Nexus]

The guy is a dink. End of.

He has an air of "I know best" and this is even stated in one of the points on the list.

He was right in saying that you can't be the next WoW, but hes wrong in thinking that his MMO will be amazingly different and super when it still follows the same fucking fantasy class/level template.

"people don't want choice", seriously.

[Damwa]

Paul Barnett successfully trolled Forumfall via an internet interview?

[Desperado[1G]]

Paul Barnett successfully trolled Forumfall via an internet interview?

no, just one guy

[Archplayer]

You seriously need to calm down. If you don't like Paul Barnett (I can't believe anyone would) or WAR then just ignore them. Seriously, why do you have to bitch about it and WHY do you assume that Paul is making the game?

Paul Barnett is the coolest guy in the gaming industry. If you don't agree with him then dont go crazy and insult him like some 13 yo girl on her period. I'm scared to think what you would do to your parents if they made you take piano lessons or something.

[Tiarilir]

You seriously need to calm down. If you don't like Paul Barnett (I can't believe anyone would) or WAR then just ignore them. Seriously, why do you have to bitch about it and WHY do you assume that Paul is making the game?

Paul Barnett is the coolest guy in the gaming industry. If you don't agree with him then dont go crazy and insult him like some 13 yo girl on her period. I'm scared to think what you would do to your parents if they made you take piano lessons or something.

Well he's schizo. So it'd be different from one day to the other.

[Ammon777]

lol.

[Spinewire]

You seriously need to calm down. If you don't like Paul Barnett (I can't believe anyone would) or WAR then just ignore them. Seriously, why do you have to bitch about it and WHY do you assume that Paul is making the game?

Paul Barnett is the coolest guy in the gaming industry. If you don't agree with him then dont go crazy and insult him like some 13 yo girl on her period. I'm scared to think what you would do to your parents if they made you take piano lessons or something.
fuck off

[Incanam]

Anyone who actually enjoyed Civilization Revolution is either a fucking idiot or someone who never played a civ game before. Civilization was one of the few games that actually got better over time until Sid started getting greedy, throwing out dumbed down shoddy games like Revolutions and the upcoming colonization remake, which will basically be a glorified civ4 mod.
Don't say that. I'm not a civ fanboi by anymeans but, you have to understand that CivRev was meant to be like that. It was SUPPOSED to be short to play and for a wider audience. I guarantee Civ 5 will do for the series what the other ones have done. Think of CivRev as a side venture, a completely unrelated game.

[Honorius]

I really am upset about how you people are so mean to the 13 year old spoiled kids. It's not nice, we could buy and sell you.

-skreela

[Helgeran]

That was funny, me and Atnas was in vent just now discussing game design and game designer in particular. Like: does anyone actually say "let's make a shitty game with annoying features?". We thought no but appearantly this guy doesn't. I hope his company goes bankrupt and he shoots himself with a revolver.

[Spinewire]

Don't say that. I'm not a civ fanboi by anymeans but, you have to understand that CivRev was meant to be like that. It was SUPPOSED to be short to play and for a wider audience. I guarantee Civ 5 will do for the series what the other ones have done. Think of CivRev as a side venture, a completely unrelated game.
They should hav called it "Farce: An excremental adventure" then and not tried to cash in on Civs name to sell there vomit inducing spin off.

[Helgeran]

You seriously need to calm down. If you don't like Paul Barnett (I can't believe anyone would) or WAR then just ignore them. Seriously, why do you have to bitch about it and WHY do you assume that Paul is making the game?

Paul Barnett is the coolest guy in the gaming industry. If you don't agree with him then dont go crazy and insult him like some 13 yo girl on her period. I'm scared to think what you would do to your parents if they made you take piano lessons or something.
Haha what the fuck? I'd laught in their fucking faces and that's what I would have done from the age I realised I was responsible for making my life worth it which was like 3.

[Leonon]

The worst part of this is that he's right. Just look at WoW, it makes choices for you and millions of people play it. Same with Final Fantasy, Everquest, and D&D. Choices aren't fun for most people and therefore don't sell as well as products that make some of the choices for you.

It sucks but he's right.

Hell, we even have businesses IRL that revolve around paying someone else to make choices for you.

[Helgeran]

The worst part of this is that he's right. Just look at WoW, it makes choices for you and people play it. Same with Final Fantasy, Everquest, and D&D. Choices aren't fun for most people and therefore don't sell as well as products that make some of the choices for you.

It sucks but he's right.

Hell, we even have businesses IRL that revolve around paying someone else to make choices for you.
"People" don't want choice. It's the same people that do jobs that suck, make no money, fuck no hotties, enjoy tasteless food and are entertained by mediocre movies. I'd never spend a fucking second in games like those. Profitable design is not the same as good design. I want craftsmen and artists make my games, not merchants and prostitutes.

[Ammon777]

I've pre-ordered the CE Ammon777, you should do it too! :D

Ya, I preordered CE like 2 months ago! So I can get into open beta and early access !!! Nothing else to play, thats why im so pissed off at Barnett !!! :lmao:

[Aragoni]

Ya, I preordered CE like 2 months ago! So I can get into open beta and early access !!! Nothing else to play, thats why im so pissed off at Barnett !!! :lmao:

Roflmao! Awesomeness! I'll (hopefully) see you on the battlefield then! :D

[Ammon777]

Roflmao! Awesomeness! I'll (hopefully) see you on the battlefield then! :D
Im'a be a BLACK ORC !!!

[Aragoni]

Im'a be a BLACK ORC !!!

Im'a be a CHAOS CHOSEN !!!

[Ammon777]

Woohoo same team !! :)

[Desperado[1G]]

mutant scum imo

[Ammon777]

;1520287']mutant scum imo
I'll kick your ass, noob!

[Aragoni]

;1520287']mutant scum imo

Then we're relatives, you live in Cleveland after all! :D

[Spinewire]

Profitable design is not the same as good design. I want craftsmen and artists make my games, not merchants and prostitutes.
QFMFT!

[Aragoni]

QFMFT!

YOU'RE SO IMPORTANT WHEN YOU HAVE BIG LETTERS!

[Spinewire]

YOU'RE SO IMPORTANT WHEN YOU HAVE BIG LETTERS!
welcome to the club

[Tiarilir]

welcome to the club

Your posts make a much better impression with the sig of yours.

[Spinewire]

Your posts make a much better impression with the sig of yours.
wonder how long it will last :/

[Estrang]

Haha, I agree with you but you really need to chill out dude. Just don't buy his game, or maybe present your opinion in a more public venue with half an ounce of civility.

Agreed.

[Spinewire]

Agreed.
I don't...

I would not have him any other way, we need more people on this forum spewing bile over retards like him. If you are going to to complain about somthing then do it right. Thats a textbook case of doing it right.

If i don't get the impression your willing to drop trow and curl one off on whoevers chest it is that gets your goat then your not doing it right imo.

[Kheiron]

It's not that people dont like choices. If you ask me it's just the end result of the IT development. There once was a time when owning a computer came with the expectation of some level of intellegence and the understanding you were of a selective breed as computers were a more niche market back then. It was then games were designed by gamers, for gamers.

Now however, there's a computer or two in every household and everyone from your 80 year old granny to 8 year old brother think themselves gamers, and unfortunately such people outnumber us like 10 to 1.
You've got the millions of teens and pre-teens who've grown up on fairytales, political correctness and motivational posters who are likely to take a challenge as a personal insult and cry over it, plus when given a choice of any actual importance will find themselves hyperventilating because of how strange and unexpected it is. These people need someone to hold thier hand and tell them how 'uber wicked cool' they are, or the epilepsy kicks in.

Now, compound this problem with the people who were grown adults when the first computer was developed. Running away from dinosaurs and clubbing thier own food apparently did little to boost thier sense of adventure. To them, computers are still strange, and as the saying goes 'you can't teach an old dog new tricks'. My mum is one of these, she's smart, got good co-ordination etc, but the most excited game she's ever been willing to try was tetrisphere. My dad contents himself with card games.
Sure, they'll look over your shoulder as you're running through F.E.A.R. or dominating the landscape in an ACU in Sup Com, but they'll never try anything with a ruleset that can't be explained in a single sentence, or doesn't emulated pac-man or space invaders.

I feel I should also point out the people in our own age bracket who aren't helping things either.
You've got the "I judge my success through PvE and items, lacking confidence to try PvP unless the stats are heavily stacked in my favour" type.
The "OMFG I'm so fucking uber. No, no death penalty!, I want instant teleportation and no levelling what-so-ever so I can jump straight into shooting people again and again and again and again..." type.
The unfortunate "I am Legolas Greenleaf and I like to RP *stab* OMFG, you stabbed me!, you greifer! how dare you play the game when I want to tell stories!, OMG, devs! ban him!" type
Then there is the mentally challenged crowd, we'll call them Americans.

All up, the chances of getting a good game are slim, because game development is big business, and business is all about profit. When the vastly superior demographic wants stupid and cliche, the developers make stupid and cliche. When us few want a game to suit us, we turn off the mainstream and hope our prayers get answered.

[palo god]

I know, i am just venting my anger here and now.

And where, like at mmorpg.com? :lmao:

People at mmorpg.com still believe Darkfall is vaporware! In fact, I posted reasons why i am looking forward to Darkfall over there and I got banned for a month by some power-happy moderator.

No, my friend. There is no where else.

Thats sad, thats also the reason I hate most mods.

[palo god]

I take offense to this.

Good. :)

[Honorius]

Good. :)

Why don't you like me? Are you jealous?

-Honorius Dioctus Deacon of the Holy Church of Auros of the Crowned Republic of the Silver Sun of the Kingdom of Hyperion

[Paganini]

Not sure who's more annoying, this asshole, or the pompous dickweed AoC devs shortly before that steaming turd pile released

[Leonon]

Not sure who's more annoying, this asshole, or the pompous dickweed AoC devs shortly before that steaming turd pile releasedJohn Romero's Daikatana ad.

Edit: Wow, when did I hit 1000+?

[Salaman]

John Romero's Daikatana ad.

Edit: Wow, when did I hit 1000+?

Congrats on no longer being normal (like me). That makes you a nerd now, nerd.

Anyways I think Kheiron hit it spot on. Most people who buy games today don't have a ton of experience with earlier games and don't have a desire to play things with more depth than the last generation of games, and are largely content with simple features. It's easier to rehash crap that's been done before to you and I but fresh and new to someone who just discovered the computer is good for more than e-mail and posting inane comments on myspace.

[Kraven]

+1

[Arintyll]

The accursed M1cR0$0f* did the same crap with the Mechwarrior franchise. It used to be about decisions and more of a simulator, but they had to go and dumb it down for the average kid to play. I want more options, more complexity, I don't care if it takes me months to figure out all the ins and outs.

In MMO's, I'm tired of the spend 2 weeks lvling and figuring out what template wtfpwns the other template till it gets nerfed. rinse repeat.

Its about time devs stop playing down to the lowest common denominator and make a few games that blow the cobwebs outta your mind. When I see a game where 7 out of 10 people complain that its too hard to figure out, im there.

[Scully]

"People like the illusion of choice"

That is true for me. I like to have different choices, but I usually choose the same.

[Weeking]

All the civ games suck. Master of magic is better and even colonization is with its lame combat.

[Spikey]

Doesn't sound like the type of thing Paul usually says, he normally hypes up the fact that WAR has lots of options and you can do lots of things you can't in say WoW or Everquest or AoC.

[Thoric]

"believers are wonderful people. I hire less talented believers over talented heretics every time. Three-star ability with five-star drive is how you want it. The other way around leads you to hell."

That retard is another proof that WAR will just fail miserably. Those are the people that are developing Warhammer Online! Non-talented zombies that copy-paste shit from WoW using no creativity what-so-ever.

WAR is trying to be the next big thing but as long as it's a theme park MMO there is no way to push WoW from it's throne. Even though WoW is based on the shitty theme park concept, Blizzard have taken the best out of it and combined it with a really successful franchise. They have been polishing the game for 8 years. Any new theme park MMO will simply be less stable, less balanced and with less content.

It's sad that developers can't understand that and keep copying WoW dooming great story concepts to failure. All the theme park grindfest fans (aka carebears) are playing WoW. Any other MMO that tries to take them away from Blizz is doomed to fail. Nevertheless they keep trying, while a big number of sandbox MMO fans are waiting for something worth playing and Aventurine seem to be the only ones that plan to offer it to them in the near future.

[Suitepee]

And once again,more proof of what happened to Mythic under EA assistance.

[Darksoul_]

Proof inside:

"People like the illusion of choice," Barnet explained. "They like a long menu at a restaurant despite the fact they will always order from the same three things." [Oh Rly?]

He used Sid Meier's Civilization series as an example of a game suffering from a glut of options over the course of several entries.

"Designers are obsessed with adding in ideas," he said. "Civilization 1 [was] strong as anything, and then progresses into cuckoo-land complexity before finally returning to its roots with Civilization Revolution."

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=19660

Barnett, you stupid fucker, people want choice and freedom, thats why your class-based, level-based MMOs suck ballz.

And currently I play Civilization 4 with mods that multiply its complexity a hundred fold, and it is a fucking awesome game, I enjoy complexity and having many options, you fucktarded albino monkey.

Maybe all your typical 13-year-old retarded over-priveleged fagz that play the endless shitty Everquest clones cant make decisions on their own so have to have someone like Paul fuckin Barnett hold their hands for them?

Sorry Paul-fagboy, you minimalistic designing duschbag, but I would rather make my own in-game decisions in a complex MMO with full freedom and myriad options, thats why Darkfall is gonna blow WAR out of the water gameplay-wise.

I dont need Paul Barnett limiting my options just because he thinks "oh nobody really likes options anymore." What a ***. It will be noted very soon that Paul Barnet actually is merely a hype instigator like Funcom and not a very good designer. Down the road, he is going to make a huge design mistake and it will implode on him like that Vanguard tard *cough* Brad *cough* McFag *cough*.

I can do better game design than that tard. First game I get 100 million to design will feature player freedom, lots of options, and no fucking levels and class archetypes. Oh wait, someone already made that, its called DARKFALL.

So my message today for forumfall is: Fuck you, Barnett.

http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/index.php