Market is getting rocked!

[lafayette]

So the FED met yesterday to make a decision on weither to save the dollar , they chose to do nothing.

Now the stock market is getting rocked!

Dollar is droping , oil is back up to $138, gold up $31.

Dow is down 250, hits 2 year low

Banks taking it in the ass.

GM hit 53 year low!




Can't wait to see what happens tommorow! :ninja:

[Slaker]

Crazy. 2012 End of world, for sure!

[Killuminati]

So they didn't choose to depress the interest rates again? Aww too bad.

[Honorius]

I say we just go with it, it'll work itself out.

[Gunther TheBlack]

Is the biggest stock market crash in 100 years starting to happen?


Maybe the bank of Scotland was right again hehe

[Lacker]

Bubble can no longer be propped up. And everyone is finding that out very quickly. Countrywide/BofA deal died yesterday. Just isn't official yet.

Unwinding of bank level 3 junk assets to take place. They're getting hammered in the ass. Bad.

Majority of the US economy in the shitter.

Only good news is: Since the dollar is falling like a rock. Sales of products sold outside the US grew as they are cheaper to buy then similar Euro priced items.

[Lethn]

governments are noobs.

[lafayette]

So they didn't choose to depress the interest rates again? Aww too bad. If they had droped it another 25 points we could have ended this a little quicker, now their just drawing it out longer than need be.

Oh well.



I say we just go with it, it'll work itself out.

Indeed



Is the biggest stock market crash in 100 years starting to happen?


Maybe the bank of Scotland was right again hehe


Its only a matter of time, IMO

[Capricious]

lol @ government influencing interest rates.

[Lacker]

governments are noobs.

The government can't do shit. They could try but in the end it would only make things worse.

Raise rates, banks get owned.
Lower rates, economy and currency get owned.
Slosh is as high as it can get without printing more treasuries.

Any economic plan to throw money at this is just pissing in the wind. 150billion "stimulus" barely bumped up growth at all.

lol @ government influencing interest rates.

Yes they follow the market. But let them pretend. Seems to make them happy.

[Malhavok]

Is the biggest stock market crash in 100 years starting to happen?


Maybe the bank of Scotland was right again hehe

2% drop so far, normal bad day.

[Galadon]

lol @ government influencing interest rates.

Isn't that part of the Nazi Government system?

[MattMystrieo]

Unlucky lads.

[Aragoni]

I hope it drops even more. Cheap computer parts here I come!

[lafayette]

Unlucky lads.

We are bring you down with us, LOLZ bitches!

[epicor]

between this and the euro being accepted by asian banks (as well as the dollar) means america is in the crapper. Its about time anyway, all empires fall eventually. I just hope its not the french that take us over. Maybe ill move to Sweden, or Australia.

[lafayette]

between this and the euro being accepted by asian banks (as well as the dollar) means america is in the crapper. Its about time anyway, all empires fall eventually. I just hope its not the french that take us over. Maybe ill move to Sweden, or Australia.

You can always move in with the old guy who has the island off the coast of the UK.

[Killuminati]

between this and the euro being accepted by asian banks (as well as the dollar) means america is in the crapper. Its about time anyway, all empires fall eventually. I just hope its not the french that take us over. Maybe ill move to Sweden, or Australia.

Those are bad choices especially fucking Australia.

[MattMystrieo]

China= Next world super power, I can speak Chinese look

"Yes i'll have the number 28, with a side of 07"

Yes crap, slightly racist joke I know i'm sorry.

[Lacker]

You're assuming its just the American economy in jeopardy. I would point out the fact europe markets are also down to 2005 levels. Asia markets down something like 20% this year as well.

Globalization is a two way street.

[Dark Necron]

governments are noobs.

Good observation.

[Atnas]

I hope the swedish kronor will surpass the dollar, then I can throw it in the face of my American guildmates. How do you like those meatballs, huh!?

[Gunther TheBlack]

One of the big Belgian banks "Fortis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fortis_%28finance%29)" lost about 19% today. OWNED

[lafayette]

You're assuming its just the American economy in jeopardy. I would point out the fact europe markets are also down to 2005 levels. Asia markets down something like 20% this year as well.

Globalization is a two way street.

Like i said before, were taking the rest of you mother fuckers with us :D

[Everto]

Crazy. 2012 End of world, for sure!

For AMERICUHHHH.

[paade]

hope that the dollar drops even more, when it hits 2$/e ill order supercheap Harley from states and ride it using gas i steal from my neighbour. Good times:)

[Pumpkin]

Looks the invisible free market hand stopped jerking itself off and is now giving a pounding to the world.

[lafayette]

Looks the invisible free market hand stopped jerking itself off and is now giving a pounding to the world.

Free market ? Whats that?

[Tiberias]

between this and the euro being accepted by asian banks (as well as the dollar) means america is in the crapper. Its about time anyway, all empires fall eventually. I just hope its not the french that take us over. Maybe ill move to Sweden, or Australia.

So you can be taken over by Arabs or the Chinese?

CHICKEN LITTLE TIME!!!

[lafayette]

HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA!

Oil just hit $140


This day is full of WIN

[Tiberias]

The Fed should raise rates and make money more scarce, damn the consequences... worked in the early 80s.

[Capricious]

guess i should get my gas today than.

[stalwart]

Bubble can no longer be propped up. And everyone is finding that out very quickly. Countrywide/BofA deal died yesterday. Just isn't official yet.

Unwinding of bank level 3 junk assets to take place. They're getting hammered in the ass. Bad.

Majority of the US economy in the shitter.

Only good news is: Since the dollar is falling like a rock. Sales of products sold outside the US grew as they are cheaper to buy then similar Euro priced items.

one of the scariest things is that the "business cycle" was less than about 6 months long.

[Killuminati]

The Fed should raise rates and make money more scarce, damn the consequences... worked in the early 80s.

At least the problem was met face to face. With the Volcker Recession the debt and malinvestment was able to be eradicated. While people had to endure a harse recession the bust wasn't prolonged. While Bernanke will be prolonging something worse. I believe during the Reagan Administration the economy was healthy well after that am I wrong?

[Bodu]

GM hit 53 year low!

GM sucks what did you expect

[Carl Ragadamn]

The up side of the falling dollar is a revitalization of manufacturing in the US over the next few years.

[Carl Ragadamn]

GM sucks what did you expect

Fuck you I have way to much of their stock...Actually once all the old GM ppl die off and they can get their pension and medical costs in line they will be fine.

[Tiberias]

At least the problem was met face to face. With the Volcker Recession the debt and malinvestment was able to be eradicated. While people had to endure a harse recession the bust wasn't prolonged. While Bernanke will be prolonging something worse. I believe during the Reagan Administration the economy was healthy well after that am I wrong?

That's what I'm saying, it DID work in the early 80s.

[Killuminati]

That's what I'm saying, it DID work in the early 80s.

Ok then ;)

Thought you were being your usual sarcastic self.

[Tiberias]

Ok then ;)

Thought you were being your usual sarcastic self.

That's true, I could see how you could be confused.

[Pcheez]

Depegging of the United Arab Emirates dirham from the dollar is imminent.

30% increase in wealth at your expense here i come !

[Tiberias]

Depegging of the United Arab Emirates dirham from the dollar is imminent.

30% increase in wealth at your expense here i come !

That would be dumb since 99% of their economy is based on a dollar-denomonated commodity.

[Traep]

Fuck you I have way to much of their stock...Actually once all the old GM ppl die off and they can get their pension and medical costs in line they will be fine.

Why on earth do you have lots of GM stock? Maybe it's better than I would assume but it seems like our current energy situation makes investing in car manufacturers, at least American manufacturers, not a very good idea. Are you expecting them to have some huge growth once all this gas stuff gets worked out?

[Sin]

Should we go loot and pillage stores now? Or wait until Martial Law?

[Bodu]

Should we go loot and pillage stores now? Or wait until Martial Law?

It's easier to do that before Martial Law so sooner would probably be better than later

[lafayette]

Dow closed down 355 points
Oil hit $140.07

Long live the Federal Reserve!


In other news......
































Sit back and be schooled bitches!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6V5ym9kx_8

[Lacker]

The Fed should raise rates and make money more scarce, damn the consequences... worked in the early 80s.

That would require the fed reserve to care about the nation and the economy... instead of their fellow bankers.

[Carl Ragadamn]

Why on earth do you have lots of GM stock? Maybe it's better than I would assume but it seems like our current energy situation makes investing in car manufacturers, at least American manufacturers, not a very good idea. Are you expecting them to have some huge growth once all this gas stuff gets worked out?

I have 1000 shares and pretty much praying for them to figure something out.

[Gunther TheBlack]

I have 1000 shares and pretty much praying for them to figure something out.

If i were you i would be selling ASAP.

There's a major stock market crash coming pretty soon i bet.

It's time to sell stock atm. Buy new stock after the crash ;)

[Uzik]

If Citigroup gets close to $10 I am gonna buy a few hundred shares.

[Carl Ragadamn]

If i were you i would be selling ASAP.

There's a major stock market crash coming pretty soon i bet.

It's time to sell stock atm. Buy new stock after the crash ;)

I got them free from my Grandfather who got them as options, so it doesnt hurt me to hold out and wait for the best. On the brightside i am getting lots of share on dividend reinvestment.

[Carl Ragadamn]

If Citigroup gets close to $10 I am gonna buy a few hundred shares.

I still regret not buying Goldman Saks on the day Bear Sterns fell with all the money I could beg, steal, or borrow.

[Uzik]

IMO this was a ploy by Goldman to lower stock prices below value.

[Gunther TheBlack]

I got them free from my Grandfather who got them as options, so it doesnt hurt me to hold out and wait for the best. On the brightside i am getting lots of share on dividend reinvestment.

What if GM doesn't decide to give out dividents like Fortis decided today? GM already halved the dividend in 2006.

Altho i admit GM is even now in a better state than Fortis atm hehe.

Maybe the restructuring and outsourcing happened just in time for GM so if there even is a major stock market crash their stock won't be affected so much because they already cleaned up their act before it happened(if it does happen).

[Carl Ragadamn]

What if GM doesn't decide to give out dividents like Fortis decided today? GM already halved the dividend in 2006.

Altho i admit GM is even now in a better state than Fortis atm hehe.

Maybe the restructuring and outsourcing happened just in time for GM so if there even is a major stock market crash their stock won't be affected so much because they already cleaned up their act before it happened(if it does happen).

GM is actually running a pretty tight ship, with the exception of the long term loadstone of their retired employees whos benifits were wisely based on the plan of GM always being the #1 car manufacturer in the world. Heh the $0.25 per share is not alot but then again their stock isnt that high atm.

[Kraven]

Recent polls suggest that I don't care.

[Gunther TheBlack]

GM is actually running a pretty tight ship, with the exception of the long term loadstone of their retired employees whos benifits were wisely based on the plan of GM always being the #1 car manufacturer in the world. Heh the $0.25 per share is not alot but then again their stock isnt that high atm.

My brother works for GM Antwerp and he's gonna get outsourced soon. They already fired a shitload of people as well. All the +50 year olds got sacked and they got a pretty damn fine bonus(way too much in my book tbh).

At least they try to make their corp healthy again.

[Malhavok]

GM is actually running a pretty tight ship, with the exception of the long term loadstone of their retired employees whos benifits were wisely based on the plan of GM always being the #1 car manufacturer in the world. Heh the $0.25 per share is not alot but then again their stock isnt that high atm.

And by tight ship you mean hemorrhaging billions of dollars in operating income on top of billions more bailing out of over priced labor contracts while losing market share? GM just announced 72 month 0% finance in a ditch effort to make their ailing undesirable and second rate line up look more attractive to consumers. Aside from a few models - Vette, G8, Malibu, Aura, and large SUVs/Trucks GMs line up is still pretty much garbage. Even the Vette they can only sell because you can get them for $7,000 below MSRP (10,000 for Z06 models).

[Carl Ragadamn]

My brother works for GM Antwerp and he's gonna get outsourced soon. They already fired a shitload of people as well. All the +50 year olds got sacked and they got a pretty damn fine bonus(way too much in my book tbh).

At least they try to make their corp healthy again.

They are not going anywhere anytime soon, the still sell a ton of cars. The Saturn line is taking off for them.

[Carl Ragadamn]

And by tight ship you mean hemorrhaging billions of dollars in operating income on top of billions more bailing out of over priced labor contracts while losing market share? GM just announced 72 month 0% finance in a ditch effort to make their ailing undesirable and second rate line up look more attractive to consumers. Aside from a few models - Vette, G8, Malibu, Aura, and large SUVs/Trucks GMs line up is still pretty much garbage. Even the Vette they can only sell because you can get them for $7,000 below MSRP (10,000 for Z06 models).

If you look I made an exception for the employees on the old contracts and the retirees that make up the biggest chunk of GM's overage. The Saturn line is selling decently at home, and pretty well abroad. The growth of GM in China is also a big plus.

[losinglife]

bah... this is taking too long!

Moar people need to go broke super fast so there are moar cheaper houses for me to buy soon :D

[HiroProtagonist]

Indeed, Losinglife. I am going to be picking through the carcasses left on Wall St. I have cut my energy stocks positions by half over the last week and need some counterparty to sell me their beaten down crap early next week. Housing prices haven't really fell much in my area. So, I have temporarily given up on upgrading to a larger homestead.

[losinglife]

Housing prices haven't really fell much in my area. So, I have temporarily given up on upgrading to a larger homestead.

yeah i hear ya, they are only slightly falling here. Needs to pick up the damn pace.

[Carl Ragadamn]

Indeed, Losinglife. I am going to be picking through the carcasses left on Wall St. I have cut my energy stocks positions by half over the last week and need some counterparty to sell me their beaten down crap early next week. Housing prices haven't really fell much in my area. So, I have temporarily given up on upgrading to a larger homestead.

The trick is to find the houses where people moved for their job a year or more ago and are desperate to sell.

[losinglife]

The trick is to find the houses where people moved for their job a year or more ago and are desperate to sell.

sherrif auctions or whatever they are called? err estate sales?

[HiroProtagonist]

The trick is to find the houses where people moved for their job a year or more ago and are desperate to sell.

I appreciate the advice. But, I have rather particular tastes. I like the area that I am in (rural), it needs to be secluded, away from any chicken houses (real chicken houses, not houses of ill repute), and have high speed internet access (kind of a trick in rural NC). Also, the property needs to be over 10 acres to allow for an incorporation as a farm. Throw in being an absolute cheapskate, insufficient time to contract construction of a house myself at the moment and the number of properties diminishes rapidly.

[Carl Ragadamn]

sherrif auctions or whatever they are called? err estate sales?

For those you need cash in hand, and it is more difficult to know what your buying. For a house to live in look for things long on the market that are no longer being lived in. Also get pre approved for a loan and look at houses that belong to elderly people whos families are putting them in homes, and make a low offer for a fast sale.

[Carl Ragadamn]

I appreciate the advice. But, I have rather particular tastes. I like the area that I am in (rural), it needs to be secluded, away from any chicken houses (real chicken houses, not houses of ill repute), and have high speed internet access (kind of a trick in rural NC). Also, the property needs to be over 10 acres to allow for an incorporation as a farm. Throw in being an absolute cheapskate, insufficient time to contract construction of a house myself at the moment and the number of properties diminishes rapidly.

Heh I am like you, I have been looking for a house to live in for 2 years because I am picky. My business partner and I have snagged 4 great deals (or they will be great if/when we sell them). We have found the truely great deals are there but take alot of leg work.

[arkdecon13]

"What do you do when theres blood in the streets

BUY BUY BUY!!!!"

[Vanno]

"What do you do when theres blood in the streets

BUY BUY BUY!!!!"

The blood hasn't even began to run though. I'd be throwing all my money in commodities or short term treasuries right now, and waiting for a real bottom.

[Foxodi]

Crazy. 2012 End of world, for sure!

America is the world? lolwut.

[Signus]

between this and the euro being accepted by asian banks (as well as the dollar) means america is in the crapper. Its about time anyway, all empires fall eventually. I just hope its not the french that take us over. Maybe ill move to Sweden, or Australia.

Too bad we don't have an empire, and our military is too advanced to let anyone take us over :P

[Xtra-Medium]

what year will it be that the dollar is equal to only 5 pesos?

[Razel]

If i were you i would be selling ASAP.

There's a major stock market crash coming pretty soon i bet.

It's time to sell stock atm. Buy new stock after the crash ;)

I been saying the crash will hit this sept for almost two years now. All in all i think this year is gona turn out nuts for everybuddy. Obama, your savior, will not be able to sav-ed nebuddy, not even himself. I've said it all along, people wont give a fuck till they start to lose some of their money and it looks like we will see just how stupid people can get very soon. If your in debt i suggest you get out of it anyway you can and start living within your means quickly. If your house isn't paid for already you'll damned sure wish it was.

[Indah]

sucks i am about to buy my first house, but i am getting a steal for it. It was my father in laws house when he grew up and he is selling it to me for less then the land is worth.

[Tiberias]

I been saying the crash will hit this sept for almost two years now. All in all i think this year is gona turn out nuts for everybuddy. Obama, your savior, will not be able to sav-ed nebuddy, not even himself. I've said it all along, people wont give a fuck till they start to lose some of their money and it looks like we will see just how stupid people can get very soon. If your in debt i suggest you get out of it anyway you can and start living within your means quickly. If your house isn't paid for already you'll damned sure wish it was.

If there is massive inflation due to a free-falling dollar, then you'll wish you WERE in debt, because your debt amount won't go up, and you'll be able to pay off 300K in mortgage debt with 1 hour of work/wages from our worthless currency.

[lafayette]

Today is getting off to a great start, oil at $141 an change and gold is up $10 at $925.

Should be good a day as yesterday.

[Vanno]

If there is massive inflation due to a free-falling dollar, then you'll wish you WERE in debt, because your debt amount won't go up, and you'll be able to pay off 300K in mortgage debt with 1 hour of work/wages from our worthless currency.

You are assuming wages keep up with inflation, which is certainly not the case in most markets.

[lafayette]

Petroleum we can believe in!

One Hundred & Forty Three!

$200 Oil in 08?

YES WE CAN!

[paade]

If there is massive inflation due to a free-falling dollar, then you'll wish you WERE in debt, because your debt amount won't go up, and you'll be able to pay off 300K in mortgage debt with 1 hour of work/wages from our worthless currency.

i hope youre a loan counsellor at some major bank.

[Killuminati]

Don't be stupid.. gold isn't a good barometer for inflation. :ninja:

[Tiberias]

You are assuming wages keep up with inflation, which is certainly not the case in most markets.

They DO increase though, roughly keeping up with inflation... which is why the average American makes like 40K per year today instead of 3K like in 1960.

[Zanir_zrold]

I currently make 55k a year by working via Chacha.

[Killuminati]

I currently make 55k a year by working via Chacha.

more like 2k.

[Vanno]

They DO increase though, roughly keeping up with inflation... which is why the average American makes like 40K per year today instead of 3K like in 1960.

You are taking to long of a trend-line. Inflation has immediate implications, and wages are quite sticky in the short term, which is why real income is down (and this is based on CPI computed by the government).

[stalwart]

I currently make 55k a year by working via Chacha.

huh? what you do for them, willis?

[Gloomrender]

Comeon guys, they can't wave a magic wand and fix everything...

[Lacker]

They DO increase though, roughly keeping up with inflation... which is why the average American makes like 40K per year today instead of 3K like in 1960.

That would be if we were stating inflation correctly. But ever since the Clinton era we've been playing number games with the government.

Both worker productivity and price increases have been at record paces since 2000. Meanwhile the increase of wages....no where to be seen. Been minuscule since 2000 and minor in the last year.

Combination with understated government numbers and globalization. Companies are under strain not to increase wages. Especially with the recession.

[Nasty]

Everyone should take full advantage of the low dollar. I am ordering tons of shit from the states now. Can usually get stuff with 2 day delivery for 60% of the price if I go and buy it in a store here. Just wish I knew how to bypass the fucking tax they put on more expensive stuff here.

[paade]

Everyone should take full advantage of the low dollar. I am ordering tons of shit from the states now. Can usually get stuff with 2 day delivery for 60% of the price if I go and buy it in a store here. Just wish I knew how to bypass the fucking tax they put on more expensive stuff.

got a friend/relative that has a private company or some such (who can order stufz for you)? Those get tax benefits here at least. I have friend who goes around every goddamn tax that man has ever invented.
Its only illegal if you get cought.

[Spineless_DoO]

What can the Fed do anyways? Dilute the $ even more? Make it legal for the banking elites to loan out more money then they hold? Thats pretty much it. Anyone with money in the banks atm is a fool I am sorry.

[Vanno]

What can the Fed do anyways? Dilute the $ even more? Make it legal for the banking elites to loan out more money then they hold? Thats pretty much it. Anyone with money in the banks atm is a fool I am sorry.

Huh? They already loan out more than they hold, it is called fractional reserve banking.

[Bofhus]

Everyone should take full advantage of the low dollar. I am ordering tons of shit from the states now. Can usually get stuff with 2 day delivery for 60% of the price if I go and buy it in a store here. Just wish I knew how to bypass the fucking tax they put on more expensive stuff here.

Yeah im actually going on my summer holiday to the States as its cheaper then going to Thailand.

[Hemlawk]

Maybe I should buy a house now. My lease is up in march and I can get a veterans loan. I was going to wait a few more years, but its tempting right now. I live in NJ and for the past few years I havent seen a house below 200k, now they are coming back down. Some houses 150K cheaper than they were 3 years ago.... Im tired of renting anyway

[lafayette]

Maybe I should buy a house now. My lease is up in march and I can get a veterans loan. I was going to wait a few more years, but its tempting right now. I live in NJ and for the past few years I havent seen a house below 200k, now they are coming back down. Some houses 150K cheaper than they were 3 years ago.... Im tired of renting anyway

Longer you wait the better deal your going to get, iv'e some people say housing prices are going to keep falling for atleast 12-18 more months

[Hemlawk]

Longer you wait the better deal your going to get, iv'e some people say housing prices are going to keep falling for atleast 12-18 more months

Ya, I think I'll start looking around Nov and Dec. I have some time to fix my finances and let the market drop more. Instead of getting a small 2bed/1bath, I can hopefully get a 3bed/2bath

[Spineless_DoO]

Huh? They already loan out more than they hold, it is called fractional reserve banking.

Thats my point. Without the destructive operations of the Fed it would be impossible. This system caters to the mega lenders not the consumers or anyone else for that matter.

[Vanno]

Thats my point. Without the destructive operations of the Fed it would be impossible. This system caters to the mega lenders not the consumers or anyone else for that matter.

Gotcha, that was way subtle.

[rito2]

bring the goldrush and pickaxe's back

[Fylraen]

bring the goldrush and pickaxe's back

they actually are, I read an article on this recently. Some people are literally going back out and panning for gold because gold's so expensive, and a few are even making a decent living at it.

[Skree]

What can the Fed do anyways?

If they really wanted to help I'm thinking mass suicide would be the best option.

Skree

[mefistofelis]

You shouldnt worry to much for the american economy they will provoke one or two wars again and after they demolish everything they will send the constuction companies in to make all the money back,just relax...:D

[lafayette]

they actually are, I read an article on this recently. Some people are literally going back out and panning for gold because gold's so expensive, and a few are even making a decent living at it.

Ya you can make some good money. I remeber going panning a few years back, maybe 96-97. We went up to the canyons here in southern CA.

I must have been 15 or 16 at the time, we panned for gold for a couple hours, just having fun, think we made about $40 and gold was worth less than $300 an ounce then.


If you were really serious about gold mining you could invest in a sluice box and dredge equipment and make a living off it.


Just watch out for the gold feaver :ohno:

[Razel]

in the news:

http://business.theage.com.au/imf-finally-knocks-on-uncle-sams-door-20080629-2yui.html?page=1

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2008/06/18/cnrbs118.xml

[lafayette]

in the news:

http://business.theage.com.au/imf-finally-knocks-on-uncle-sams-door-20080629-2yui.html?page=1

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2008/06/18/cnrbs118.xml

Shhhh! Everything is fine, have you spent your stimulus check yet? If you have, will send you another one.

[greenman101]

I'm almost ready to buy GM. They wont stay down for long.

Some of you guys need to get these doomsday scenario's out of your heads. They aren't going to happen. Ever. The US is the center of the economic and financial world, and things will not change in our lifetime regardless of what scary trends may be developing.

[[LoD] EE]

Might be a stupid question but...

Could a person sue the government or the financial institutions for the screwing up the economy and loss of jobs for lost wages due to this being a foreseen problem and nothing was done about it?

[thadon]

the problem with the american dollar is...
that the world banks control the amount in existence.
the best thing America can do for its people is to close down the federal reserve system and open its OWN GOVERNMENT CONTROLLED CURRENCY
"RESERVE"
the federal reserve and the world trade organization are privately owned business. just like the IRS
problem is people worldwide are stupid and brainwased to think we actually "NEED" the world banks and their money printing services. the truth is, we dont.
all of the worlds governments can produce their own money without outside interference (private owners) controlling things
the whole point of "money" is to facilitate trade.
money is not ment to give all the power in the world to a select few people.
in the current world bank system the few that own it control our stock market.
its crashing because the world banks says it should crash.
l 2 understand history.

[Elemancer]

the problem with the american dollar is...
that the world banks control the amount in existence.
the best thing America can do for its people is to close down the federal reserve system and open its OWN GOVERNMENT CONTROLLED CURRENCY
"RESERVE"
the federal reserve and the world trade organization are privately owned business. just like the IRS
problem is people worldwide are stupid and brainwased to think we actually "NEED" the world banks and their money printing services. the truth is, we dont.
all of the worlds governments can produce their own money without outside interference (private owners) controlling things
the whole point of "money" is to facilitate trade.
money is not ment to give all the power in the world to a select few people.
in the current world bank system the few that own it control our stock market.
its crashing because the world banks says it should crash.
l 2 understand history.

Moving centralized banking from a semi-political mechanism to a fully political mechanism is not the answer imo...

[Killuminati]

Moving centralized banking from a semi-political mechanism to a fully political mechanism is not the answer imo...

LOL, He said the federal reserve and the IRS are privately owned businesses....no point in taking that crap seriously.

[Vanno]

I'm almost ready to buy GM. They wont stay down for long.

Some of you guys need to get these doomsday scenario's out of your heads. They aren't going to happen. Ever. The US is the center of the economic and financial world, and things will not change in our lifetime regardless of what scary trends may be developing.

GM is toast unless they can settle all the promises they made for lesser amounts. As far as for the doomsday argument, I don't believe the US will be a non-factor any time soon, but the market still has yet to see a bottom, and the recession hasn't even began to be felt.

[greenman101]

GM is toast unless they can settle all the promises they made for lesser amounts. As far as for the doomsday argument, I don't believe the US will be a non-factor any time soon, but the market still has yet to see a bottom, and the recession hasn't even began to be felt.
The GM argument is a little outside the scope of this forum. And to be honest, I'd have to sit down for more than a few hours to wade through their 12k to construct a good enough argument to support my side...and if I'm not getting paid for that then I'd rather avoid it.

But I don't think we're in any recession. I don't think we're going into one right now either. The market is going to correct, and our economic growth is going to be sluggish, but I don't think a recession is in the cards anymore. The next few weeks are going to tell the tale of the next year or two imo. It's going to be interesting, and the only thing that I am positive about in my mind is that the dollar is on sale right now worldwide.

[Airius Droc]

I'm almost ready to buy GM. They wont stay down for long.

Some of you guys need to get these doomsday scenario's out of your heads. They aren't going to happen. Ever. The US is the center of the economic and financial world, and things will not change in our lifetime regardless of what scary trends may be developing.

Tell me when you buy so I can short the stock.

[greenman101]

Tell me when you buy so I can short the stock.
Just like when you said we are in a recession, and I said no we aren't and then you said WE SHALL SEE WHAT THE NUMBERS SAY THEY COME OUT IN A DAY, and then they came out the next day proving me right?

[Vanno]

It's going to be interesting, and the only thing that I am positive about in my mind is that the dollar is on sale right now worldwide.
I see where you are going with this, but I disagree with the notion that exports or FDI are big factors in the the US Economy. We are still largely a domestic economy, and a weak dollar (signaling inflation) is terrible for domestic markets.

[Airius Droc]

Just like when you said we are in a recession, and I said no we aren't and then you said WE SHALL SEE WHAT THE NUMBERS SAY THEY COME OUT IN A DAY, and then they came out the next day proving me right?

Are you saying we're not currently in a recession?

[Vanno]

Just like when you said we are in a recession, and I said no we aren't and then you said WE SHALL SEE WHAT THE NUMBERS SAY THEY COME OUT IN A DAY, and then they came out the next day proving me right?

I don't think the numbers proved either side right. Growth was 1% while population growth was around .9%, meaning Income, per capita barely did anything. If anything, people that said slow growth were right, using the numbers the government produces.

I've personally been saying stagflation for a long time now, and beleive that is what we are going to experience.

[Airius Droc]

I don't think the numbers proved either side right. Growth was 1% while population growth was around .9%, meaning Income, per capita barely did anything. If anything, people that said slow growth were right, using the numbers the government produces.

As I remember it, there was a margin of error of like .4 and the difference between a recession and not a recession was like .1. Wow, what a way to say "I'm right and you're wrong." (also, the definition of a recession is debatable outside of this conversation)

But hey, as I said on that day - I was wrong and greenman was correct, GDP didn't go down two consecutive quarters. I'm glad greenman will undoubtedly consider that a great accomplishment in his lifetime.

Meanwhile, back in reality world, this country is fucked.

[Vanno]

As I remember it, there was a margin of error of like .4 and the difference between a recession and not a recession was like .1. Wow, what a way to say "I'm right and you're wrong." (also, the definition of a recession is debatable outside of this conversation)

But hey, as I said on that day - I was wrong and greenman was correct, GDP didn't go down two consecutive quarters. I'm glad greenman will undoubtedly consider that a great accomplishment in his lifetime.

Meanwhile, back in reality world, this country is fucked.

Add in the fact that Gold prices suggest inflation far larger than the ridiculous calculations used by the government, and you really have to wonder if 1% growth is something to be happy about.

[Airius Droc]

Add in the fact that Gold prices suggest inflation far larger than the ridiculous calculations used by the government, and you really have to wonder if 1% growth is something to be happy about.

You don't have to wonder, everyone understands we're fucked. The only people that are still beating that drum to the tune of "the free market will sort if all out" / "personal responsibility" / "global warming is a hoax" are people that would still vote for George Bush if he beat off during the state of the union address.

I watched Gangs of New York for the first time the other night. There are a ton of Daniel Day Lewis's on this board. "Pure Americans"

[Vanno]

You don't have to wonder, everyone understands we're fucked. The only people that are still beating that drum to the tune of "the free market will sort if all out" / "personal responsibility" / "global warming is a hoax" are people that would still vote for George Bush if he beat off during the state of the union address.

I watched Gangs of New York for the first time the other night. There are a ton of Daniel Day Lewis's on this board. "Pure Americans"

I disagree with most of what you said there, primarily because there is no free market. The US government interfers constantly in markets, often resulting in efficiency losses, increased prices, and general malaise.

[Razel]

The GM argument is a little outside the scope of this forum. And to be honest, I'd have to sit down for more than a few hours to wade through their 12k to construct a good enough argument to support my side...and if I'm not getting paid for that then I'd rather avoid it.

But I don't think we're in any recession. I don't think we're going into one right now either. The market is going to correct, and our economic growth is going to be sluggish, but I don't think a recession is in the cards anymore. The next few weeks are going to tell the tale of the next year or two imo. It's going to be interesting, and the only thing that I am positive about in my mind is that the dollar is on sale right now worldwide.

wasn't it a couple months ago you said the fed will sav-ed us? Where is your savior now, obama? McCain? You fucking dumbass, try the wow forums. Hard times ahead imo and i welcome it because people need to wake the fuck up.

[Barbarossa]

I watched Gangs of New York for the first time the other night. There are a ton of Daniel Day Lewis's on this board. "Pure Americans"


Trouble is, Mr. Lewis is not an american, he only plays one in movies.

[Razel]

Longer you wait the better deal your going to get, iv'e some people say housing prices are going to keep falling for atleast 12-18 more months

depending on where you live, houses arent worth half as much as they list for, maybe less. I'd wait a year personally after all hell breaks loose.

[Razel]

Shhhh! Everything is fine, have you spent your stimulus check yet? If you have, will send you another one.

my stimulus check went to the oil companies obviously. Bush and his buddies are still prolly laughing all the way to the bank. Joke is on them tho... i moved and got an apt (even tho i own three houses) so i can drive co truck two blocks to work hehe :D I'm saven 30 bucks a day this way or 7200 per year. Not a huge deal but adds up over time and gives me 3 hours more sleep so i can stalk moe hoes on teh internets.

[greenman101]

wasn't it a couple months ago you said the fed will sav-ed us? Where is your savior now, obama? McCain? You fucking dumbass, try the wow forums. Hard times ahead imo and i welcome it because people need to wake the fuck up.
Listen, dipshit. You can't even write a coherent sentence, and you're trying to tell me whether or not there are "hard times" ahead? Take your idiot ass back to school you dumb fuck. You're one of those irritating idiots that ALWAYS thinks there are hard times ahead. No matter what is happening, you cling to the notion that our country is going down the shitter because you're afraid of change, and you don't understand what's going on. Educate yourself for once and you wont be so fucking fearful of what's happening in the world.

[greenman101]

Are you saying we're not currently in a recession?
Oh, wait, your stupid ass is trying this line again? Rememebr how hard it backfired on you last time?

And, no, there was not a .1% difference between us being in a recession or not. The GDP growth rate was well into the positive which showed mild growth; not a recession. Even with margin of error accounted for, we were well into the positive growth. We will have positive growth this next quarter as well so just shut the fuck up and stop believing all of the doomsday shit you read.

[greenman101]

I don't think the numbers proved either side right. Growth was 1% while population growth was around .9%, meaning Income, per capita barely did anything. If anything, people that said slow growth were right, using the numbers the government produces.

I've personally been saying stagflation for a long time now, and beleive that is what we are going to experience.
The numbers showed slowing, but moderate growth. It was clearly growth; just not quite as strong of growth as we've had over the past few years. I don't see stagflation though. I see a period of slow to non-existent growth over the next maybe two years.

[Airius Droc]

I disagree with most of what you said there, primarily because there is no free market. The US government interfers constantly in markets, often resulting in efficiency losses, increased prices, and general malaise.

I didn't say there WAS a free market. There's not. (so on this point we're in agreement)

[Airius Droc]

Oh, wait, your stupid ass is trying this line again? Rememebr how hard it backfired on you last time?

I don't remember anything backfiring on me.

And, no, there was not a .1% difference between us being in a recession or not. The GDP growth rate was well into the positive which showed mild growth; not a recession. Even with margin of error accounted for, we were well into the positive growth. We will have positive growth this next quarter as well so just shut the fuck up and stop believing all of the doomsday shit you read.

The margin of error did not account for the GDP numbers. On that you're completely wrong.

[Airius Droc]

stop believing all of the doomsday shit you read.

Where do you think this country and this economy are headed?

I'm going to give you a hint...

No one knows what's going to happen in the future. But right now, it sure looks like this is where we're headed.

1) We're going to be invaded during our lifetime. It's probably 50 years away, but it's going to happen. Thank the Republican War Mongers.
2) We're going to suck this country dry of everything and be slightly better than Mexico in terms of living conditions. That's probably 45 years away. Thank NAFTA and "Free Trade."
3) We're going to be under water, in a constant state of drought, unable to grow food (depending on where you live in the US) due to Global Warming that we ignore as a country.

In 50 years, I hope you're still alive to enjoy it. You'll blame someone else for it - the "liberals" or "socialists" but you'll never take a hard look in the mirror and hold yourself accountable.

The funny thing is, these are not "doomsday" predictions. They're the paths that we've been put on over the last 16 years.

[Uzik]

Where do you think this country and this economy are headed?

I'm going to give you a hint...

No one knows what's going to happen in the future. But right now, it sure looks like this is where we're headed.

1) We're going to be invaded during our lifetime. It's probably 50 years away, but it's going to happen. Thank the Republican War Mongers.
2) We're going to suck this country dry of everything and be slightly better than Mexico in terms of living conditions. That's probably 45 years away. Thank NAFTA and "Free Trade."
3) We're going to be under water, in a constant state of drought, unable to grow food (depending on where you live in the US) due to Global Warming that we ignore as a country.

In 50 years, I hope you're still alive to enjoy it. You'll blame someone else for it - the "liberals" or "socialists" but you'll never take a hard look in the mirror and hold yourself accountable.

The funny thing is, these are not "doomsday" predictions. They're the paths that we've been put on over the last 16 years.


And I thought the republicans were the fear-mongers...


Everything will be fine.

The economy will level out.

Our foreign policies will change.

The world will not flood.

We won't run out of water.


Democrats will continue to find new world terrors that we must give more power to the government for...

"Zomg! The sky is falling! Allow us to redistribute wealth in order to stop the sky from falling! Anyone who doesn't agree the sky is falling is a neocon!"

[Airius Droc]

And I thought the republicans were the fear-mongers...

I knew you guys would like that. :)

But I'm serious, I have no faith in where we're headed. There are too many stupid people that believe the Republican lies to do the right thing. I wish we could divide the country up 50/50 and let the Republicans burn themselves into the ground. But we already did that once and the winners were the sane people. You'd think this civil war would end someday.

[Vanno]

The numbers showed slowing, but moderate growth. It was clearly growth; just not quite as strong of growth as we've had over the past few years. I don't see stagflation though. I see a period of slow to non-existent growth over the next maybe two years.

No, they did not. Re-read them.

[Uzik]

I knew you guys would like that. :)

But I'm serious, I have no faith in where we're headed. There are too many stupid people that believe the Republican lies to do the right thing. I wish we could divide the country up 50/50 and let the Republicans burn themselves into the ground. But we already did that once and the winners were the sane people. You'd think this civil war would end someday.

I'm sure we will eventually have another civil war.

Although it will probably be the socialists vs. the libertarians this time (more so than last time at least.

I imagine the conservatives will just sit back and ask their baptist minister what to do, and the liberals will ask the media what to do.

All in all, the libertarians will probably win, as the socialists will expect the government to save them. Also, I think most of the military will side with the libertarians.

I wonder if the Muslim fanatics will stop trying to destroy us once we destroy ourselves *shrug*

[greenman101]

No, they did not. Re-read them.
Yes, they did. You can try to interpret the numbers however which way you want, but the Q1 GDP growth was definitely positive beyond a margin for error.

[Vanno]

Yes, they did. You can try to interpret the numbers however which way you want, but the Q1 GDP growth was definitely positive beyond a margin for error.

http://www.bea.gov/newsreleases/national/gdp/gdpnewsrelease.htm

GDP growth (which includes government expenditure, an absurdity when talking about the economy, was 3.7 percent. Consumer price indexes (known to be flawed) were 3.6%. This means, using government data real income increased by .1%. Add in the fact that population growth is about .88% a year, or .22% and you have anemic real per capita growth.

Also add in poor corporate profits, and the numbers did not signal moderate growth at all.

[r4nge]

Personally, I hate greenman. I got warned or banned or something for calling him a douchebag once. I stand by that statement. I am not usually one to call the forum police but shouldnt he get banned for all the personal attacks above? Anything to piss him off, really.

[Killuminati]

Personally, I hate greenman. I got warned or banned or something for calling him a douchebag once. I stand by that statement. I am not usually one to call the forum police but shouldnt he get banned for all the personal attacks above? Anything to piss him off, really.

He spits out green sludge.

[greenman101]

http://www.bea.gov/newsreleases/national/gdp/gdpnewsrelease.htm

GDP growth (which includes government expenditure, an absurdity when talking about the economy, was 3.7 percent. Consumer price indexes (known to be flawed) were 3.6%. This means, using government data real income increased by .1%. Add in the fact that population growth is about .88% a year, or .22% and you have anemic real per capita growth.

Also add in poor corporate profits, and the numbers did not signal moderate growth at all.
Okay, I stand corrected. I hadn't read any further than the preliminary announcements, and didn't see any of the revisions. Regardless though, it is still a positive growth and not recessionary. You can interpret it as recessionary if you'd like, but it is .6 positive real GDP growth for the quarter. That leads to a 2.4% real GDP growth for the year...which is certainly not a recession.

[greenman101]

Personally, I hate greenman. I got warned or banned or something for calling him a douchebag once. I stand by that statement. I am not usually one to call the forum police but shouldnt he get banned for all the personal attacks above? Anything to piss him off, really.
Cry me a river, kid.

[r4nge]

suck me a ball.

[Vanno]

Okay, I stand corrected. I hadn't read any further than the preliminary announcements, and didn't see any of the revisions. Regardless though, it is still a positive growth and not recessionary. You can interpret it as recessionary if you'd like, but it is .6 positive real GDP growth for the quarter. That leads to a 2.4% real GDP growth for the year...which is certainly not a recession.


.1 if you US the inflation and growth numbers they give, as apposed to the real GDP number they post (seems like they can't subtract correctly over at the BEA), which actually means negative per capita growth given population growth predictions/ Of course, arguing recession isn't the point I am making, but rather the economic is stagnant, and nothing to be bullish about.

[HiroProtagonist]

Where do you think this country and this economy are headed?

I'm going to give you a hint...

No one knows what's going to happen in the future. But right now, it sure looks like this is where we're headed.

1) We're going to be invaded during our lifetime. It's probably 50 years away, but it's going to happen. Thank the Republican War Mongers.
2) We're going to suck this country dry of everything and be slightly better than Mexico in terms of living conditions. That's probably 45 years away. Thank NAFTA and "Free Trade."
3) We're going to be under water, in a constant state of drought, unable to grow food (depending on where you live in the US) due to Global Warming that we ignore as a country.

In 50 years, I hope you're still alive to enjoy it. You'll blame someone else for it - the "liberals" or "socialists" but you'll never take a hard look in the mirror and hold yourself accountable.

The funny thing is, these are not "doomsday" predictions. They're the paths that we've been put on over the last 16 years.

My goodness, you believe everything your political taskmasters tell you. Don't you? Here I'll help out.

1) We will not be invaded in the next 100 years in the generally accepted military definition of "invaded".
2) We will not suck this country or the world dry of resources, ever. If you understood economics, you would know why. But, since you don't by all means believe that it will happen. That is one of the reasons why you are not as successful as you could be or should be.
3) We'll be under water AND in a constant state of drought. I guess technically that could be true since it hasn't rained on the floor of Lake Superior in some time. Global warming and cooling are natural processes on our planet. Man's contribution to either is negligible at best. The only agenda of the leaders of that movement is to control individual behavior under the guise of some sort of crisis that doesn't exist. And, if it did would likely be beyond our control anyway. Please stop talking or I'll go cut another tree down.

Most of the worst crises that we have faced in the last 100 years were due to socialists or liberals (as defined by the current American political definition).

[greenman101]

.1 if you US the inflation and growth numbers they give, as apposed to the real GDP number they post (seems like they can't subtract correctly over at the BEA), which actually means negative per capita growth given population growth predictions/ Of course, arguing recession isn't the point I am making, but rather the economic is stagnant, and nothing to be bullish about.
Yes, I'm not bullish. I'm just making the point that we are not absolutely bearish yet either.

[Matriel]

I knew you guys would like that. :)

But I'm serious, I have no faith in where we're headed. There are too many stupid people that believe the Republican lies to do the right thing. I wish we could divide the country up 50/50 and let the Republicans burn themselves into the ground. But we already did that once and the winners were the sane people. You'd think this civil war would end someday.

That's funny because the winners of the Civil War were Republicans. :idea:

[Airius Droc]

That's funny because the winners of the Civil War were Republicans. :idea:

Yeah, they haven't changed a bit since then.

[Matriel]

Yeah, they haven't changed a bit since then.

You're the one that said they were the sane people.

[Slypieguy]

Where do you think this country and this economy are headed?

I'm going to give you a hint...


I can tell you where the economy is headed if Obama wins: stagnation.
Doubling the capital gains tax= mass exodus of capital from the country= stagnation of the already struggling economy. It's exactly what happened to Japan, but I guess Obama doesn't like to look to other countries when it doesn't suit his agenda (aka, terrible universal healthcare, socialism never being successful, etc)

[Airius Droc]

You're the one that said they were the sane people.

They were...and that's certainly changed since then.

[Airius Droc]

I can tell you where the economy is headed if Obama wins: stagnation.
Doubling the capital gains tax= mass exodus of capital from the country= stagnation of the already struggling economy. It's exactly what happened to Japan, but I guess Obama doesn't like to look to other countries when it doesn't suit his agenda (aka, terrible universal healthcare, socialism never being successful, etc)

It doesn't matter who gets into office, the US is headed for a decline in it's standard of living - it's already happening - and has been for some time. The only difference is how it happens, to whom it happens to, and how fast it happens to those people.

If you're super rich, yeah, Obama is going to kick your ass. If you're super poor, McCain is going to kick your ass. Take your pick - it's a sliding scale.

If you're somewhere in the middle, the closer you are to the super rich the more it's going to hurt if you're for Obama, and vice versa for McCain.

We're closing in on 1930's politics again.

[Spart]

I'm looking forward to the time when we can honestly say whether your economy truly was dying, or if it was just the crazed ramblings of those trying to gain power. Global warming should be a fun one too. Not that it matters. Neither side will ever change, the people who talk about climate change will always look for the next big thing to gain power, and those who don't believe them will always hold onto that power for as long as they can. I just hope one day they fight over religion. That's one I could really get involved in.

[Airius Droc]

I'm looking forward to the time when we can honestly say whether your economy truly was dying, or if it was just the crazed ramblings of those trying to gain power. Global warming should be a fun one too. Not that it matters. Neither side will ever change, the people who talk about climate change will always look for the next big thing to gain power, and those who don't believe them will always hold onto that power for as long as they can. I just hope one day they fight over religion. That's one I could really get involved in.

In 50 years, most economies will be on par with the US. We're on a race to the bottom on a free trade bus.

[Slypieguy]

It doesn't matter who gets into office, the US is headed for a decline in it's standard of living - it's already happening - and has been for some time. The only difference is how it happens, to whom it happens to, and how fast it happens to those people.

If you're super rich, yeah, Obama is going to kick your ass. If you're super poor, McCain is going to kick your ass. Take your pick - it's a sliding scale.

If you're somewhere in the middle, the closer you are to the super rich the more it's going to hurt if you're for Obama, and vice versa for McCain.

We're closing in on 1930's politics again.

You do know that McCain's tax cuts for the poor are very close to the amount of Obama's right? The difference is just Obama's raping of the rich.

But I would expect you to avoid what I actually said, since you have no answer to it but to attack McCain, which is irrelevant.

[Airius Droc]

You do know that McCain's tax cuts for the poor are very close to the amount of Obama's right? The difference is just Obama's raping of the rich.

Healthcare, Oil Prices, Labor Laws, Trade Policies....McCain will beat the poor with their own limbs.

[Slypieguy]

Healthcare, Oil Prices, Labor Laws, Trade Policies....McCain will beat the poor with their own limbs.

rofl, yea I guess being opposed to nuclear, off-shore drilling, and offering no solutions will help the poor with their oilz. Oh wait, he will punish big oil, so that makes it ok!!

[HiroProtagonist]

It doesn't matter who gets into office, the US is headed for a decline in it's standard of living - it's already happening - and has been for some time. The only difference is how it happens, to whom it happens to, and how fast it happens to those people.

If you're super rich, yeah, Obama is going to kick your ass. If you're super poor, McCain is going to kick your ass. Take your pick - it's a sliding scale.

If you're somewhere in the middle, the closer you are to the super rich the more it's going to hurt if you're for Obama, and vice versa for McCain.

We're closing in on 1930's politics again.

One of the main causes of the Great Depression and it's extended nature were high taxes, protectionist policies and excessive regulations. The exact policies that Obama espouses. Pick your poison. While free markets are not likely anytime soon in the U.S., McCain is less bad than Comrade Obama. I'll be fine regardless, as will anyone else with planning skills. It is the poor and the lower middle class who will suffer the most under a high tax, protectionist and high regulation Obama administration.

[Matriel]

Yeah, they haven't changed a bit since then.

They were...and that's certainly changed since then.

Uh, which one is it then?

[andy9306]

On the plus side, American jobs are looking less and less desirable to those damn Mexicans!

But in all seriousness, Canada looks to suffer along with/because of America.

[Beeblebrox]

there goes my plan of getting rich without ever working....

[paade]

the only really interesting part here is of course, how much Usa suckness affects europe. Weak ass dollar is allready eating away importing to Usa, and if you enter stagflation there, it will completely plummet. Im guessing some neighbourhoods, like the british isles get hit the hardest. We'll see.

[Razel]

Listen, dipshit. You can't even write a coherent sentence, and you're trying to tell me whether or not there are "hard times" ahead? Take your idiot ass back to school you dumb fuck. You're one of those irritating idiots that ALWAYS thinks there are hard times ahead. No matter what is happening, you cling to the notion that our country is going down the shitter because you're afraid of change, and you don't understand what's going on. Educate yourself for once and you wont be so fucking fearful of what's happening in the world.

and you'll still be promoting the fed reserve after it all goes to shit as it is now. Only thing your good for is my post count, too bad i dont keep track of it u sack of shit.

[Razel]

Are you saying we're not currently in a recession?

i think dipsilala is oblivious to whats staring him in the face.

[losinglife]

and you'll still be promoting the fed reserve after it all goes to shit as it is now. Only thing your good for is my post count, too bad i dont keep track of it u sack of shit.

hahaha you can sum up the election process by equating it to forumfall.

Greenman vs Arius .

Both suck, but 1 sucks a little less!

[Lacker]

In 50 years, most economies will be on par with the US. We're on a race to the bottom on a free trade bus.

I'll be happy is a half dozen new super nations rise up with our standard of living who we could trade with. Free trade is awesome on relatively equal terms.

But judging by the trillions of dollar we thrown to Mexico through NAFTA hasn't done much except encouraged a fifth of their population to jump over. So yep, we're fucked.

[Lacker]

One of the main causes of the Great Depression and it's extended nature were high taxes, protectionist policies and excessive regulations. The exact policies that Obama espouses. Pick your poison. While free markets are not likely anytime soon in the U.S., McCain is less bad than Comrade Obama. I'll be fine regardless, as will anyone else with planning skills. It is the poor and the lower middle class who will suffer the most under a high tax, protectionist and high regulation Obama administration.

I agree that government interference only made the issue worst. But I think when the dust settles from this bust people will find the cause of most of it was the deliberate dismantling of Glass-Steagall in the 90s. Volcker himself called it in 1987 when the banks and Fed governers started lobbying for it.

[Weeking]

If there is massive inflation due to a free-falling dollar, then you'll wish you WERE in debt, because your debt amount won't go up, and you'll be able to pay off 300K in mortgage debt with 1 hour of work/wages from our worthless currency.

Interest is increased in accordance with inflation generally I think, making it just as hard or harder to pay it off. Unless you have a fixed interest loan that the bank is not even allowed to adjust for inflation.

[Spart]

So, just checking, how evil is it to hope that the US market does crash? I know it would make standards of living all around the world drop, but I also know that for the most part, the Australian economy would be safe, so I just see it as a way to keep improving. That's not a bad outlook is it?

[Matriel]

I'll be happy is a half dozen new super nations rise up with our standard of living who we could trade with. Free trade is awesome on relatively equal terms.

But judging by the trillions of dollar we thrown to Mexico through NAFTA hasn't done much except encouraged a fifth of their population to jump over. So yep, we're fucked.

NAFTA is not free trade. Free trade is not the reason our economy is having trouble.

[Carl Ragadamn]

I'm almost ready to buy GM. They wont stay down for long.


Skipping over all the Ariuis stuff, I think I am going to buy shares of GM starting tomorrow. Their long term growth and the gains they are making with the Saturn line convince me they are going to bounce off the bottom soon.

[Murphy]

Rock the boat!
Oil 4 '08

[lafayette]

Rock the boat!
Oil 4 '08

Welcome aboard!

[Vanno]

Skipping over all the Ariuis stuff, I think I am going to buy shares of GM starting tomorrow. Their long term growth and the gains they are making with the Saturn line convince me they are going to bounce off the bottom soon.

Ehh, it is a cheap but risky stock, with huge earning potential (previous high was 42 bucks, even regaining half that would translate to a doubling of money). They seemed to have been able to make some progress with the workers unions as of late, in regards to healthcare, so those worries may be alleviated. However, with the credit squezee and inflation worries, durable goods expenditures likely won't be great, which isn't good for car manufacurers. I'd hold off for a couple weeks to a month.

[Carl Ragadamn]

Ehh, it is a cheap but risky stock, with huge earning potential (previous high was 42 bucks, even regaining half that would translate to a doubling of money). They seemed to have been able to make some progress with the workers unions as of late, in regards to healthcare, so those worries may be alleviated. However, with the credit squezee and inflation worries, durable goods expenditures likely won't be great, which isn't good for car manufacurers. I'd hold off for a couple weeks to a month.

I bought some today before they revealed they had the smallest decline in sales among the major car companies and held off Toyota to stay top of US sales.

[Vanno]

I bought some today before they revealed they had the smallest decline in sales among the major car companies and held off Toyota to stay top of US sales.

So you made about 3% in a day. Not bad. That is definitely good news, if they can hold those gains through the week, I'll look to buy some next week when I get paid.

[Erroneous]

Aren't american car companies basically financial organizations at this point? Even though they got in before we entered debtor's paradise, that portion of their business will still perform poorly won't it?

[Slypieguy]

Skipping over all the Ariuis stuff, I think I am going to buy shares of GM starting tomorrow. Their long term growth and the gains they are making with the Saturn line convince me they are going to bounce off the bottom soon.

There are much better things to be looking at right now. Financials and autos= pleh

[losinglife]

There are much better things to be looking at right now. Financials and autos= pleh

do tell

[Malhavok]

Skipping over all the Ariuis stuff, I think I am going to buy shares of GM starting tomorrow. Their long term growth and the gains they are making with the Saturn line convince me they are going to bounce off the bottom soon.

Its your money. The product line is turning around, not fast enough for my liking, but it's turning around. The business model however.... expect to see drastic measures with in 2 years. Expect to see GM auction blocking brands in the near future. It's either that or borrow billions of dollars from a financial market that is still trying to get back on its feet from the subprime collapse. At the current rate of unprofitability GM has about two more years until they have no more liquid assets to pay the bills. Pretty amazing how quickly GM burned through its insurmountable piles of cash. I'm staying the hell away. I wouldn't touch a mature company in a declining industry that has an annualized TTM NI of -25%. Then again my objects are all short term atm because grad school is looming ahead.

[Slypieguy]

do tell

Shipping for one, energy (obviously), any value play that has gone down with the market and isn't in a troubled sector

[Tiberias]

Interest is increased in accordance with inflation generally I think, making it just as hard or harder to pay it off. Unless you have a fixed interest loan that the bank is not even allowed to adjust for inflation.

Yeah, a 30 year fixed is what non-retards get for their mortgages.

[Vanno]

Shipping for one, energy (obviously), any value play that has gone down with the market and isn't in a troubled sector

Shipping, Energy (I like RCC), commodities (maybe an ETF), industrials are all good.

Also financial companies like JP in a couple months will look good, once they repo all the hard assets on their books and start to sell.

[greenman101]

Skipping over all the Ariuis stuff, I think I am going to buy shares of GM starting tomorrow. Their long term growth and the gains they are making with the Saturn line convince me they are going to bounce off the bottom soon.
They'll probably go lower so I wouldn't recommend buying them just yet. They aren't going to implode anytime soon though, but they are in a declining industry atm. Until their Volt comes out and other similar hybrids that ease the gasoline burden, GM, like others in the industry, are going to be sloping downhill. One thing is for certain though; they will be back. I haven't done enough research to say when the best time to buy is, but it's likely not right now.

[greenman101]

Shipping, Energy (I like RCC), commodities (maybe an ETF), industrials are all good.

Also financial companies like JP in a couple months will look good, once they repo all the hard assets on their books and start to sell.
Financial companies are going to be a big gamble for quite some time. Some new accounting mumbo jumbo that was passed during this crisis (to help deal with the crisis) allows them to declare an asset under distress and not mark it to market and hold on their books. It allows them to make their own determination of it's value and label it such.

This means that nobody can read their balance sheets properly and has no idea what the company is worth. I'd stay away from banks and financial companies for a good year or more.

[Vanno]

Financial companies are going to be a big gamble for quite some time. Some new accounting mumbo jumbo that was passed during this crisis (to help deal with the crisis) allows them to declare an asset under distress and not mark it to market and hold on their books. It allows them to make their own determination of it's value and label it such.

This means that nobody can read their balance sheets properly and has no idea what the company is worth. I'd stay away from banks and financial companies for a good year or more.

They now hold tons of property, what the ink on their paper says really doesn't matter. Generally, Banks don't hold hard assets, just faith backed paper, and now they do.

[Elemancer]

Yes, I'm not bullish. I'm just making the point that we are not absolutely bearish yet either.

Where you at dawg? Q2 figgers are coming out! I wouldn't bet a paycheck on it, but I wouldn't be surprised to see net negative figures. If the numbers grew, I've lost all faith in our economic indicators.

Once this "Excellent buying opportunity" (aka recession) passes are you going to stop suckling that EIB teet?


Anyone know how to spell... STAGFLATION! Woo! Some experts would agree a recession is far better than stagflation, but call me an optimist.

[Lacker]

They now hold tons of property, what the ink on their paper says really doesn't matter. Generally, Banks don't hold hard assets, just faith backed paper, and now they do.

Thats where they're really getting reamed. The property they're holding is losing value by the month. These banks lent out say 300,000 for a home. They're going to get it back in disrepair(read a report, few people leave a foreclosed home untouched. Bank often has to pay them to leave peacefully) and worth 20-40% less. Thats flat out 30-50% loss. Ontop of all the accounting voodoo crisis they've been going through.

So they're stuck with all this devalued property they paid too much for, and can't get rid of it.

Banks are stuck in a liquidity trap. The can't get anymore support from the fed, and they can't sell all these junk assets fast enough to cover their sheet. Meanwhile the bond insurers can't help them cover these losses. Several of them have been downgraded and I'm fairly sure one of them is about to go bankrupt.

[Vanno]

Thats where they're really getting reamed. The property they're holding is losing value by the month. These banks lent out say 300,000 for a home. They're going to get it back in disrepair(read a report, few people leave a foreclosed home untouched. Bank often has to pay them to leave peacefully) and worth 20-40% less. Thats flat out 30-50% loss. Ontop of all the accounting voodoo crisis they've been going through.

So they're stuck with all this devalued property they paid too much for, and can't get rid of it.

Banks are stuck in a liquidity trap. The can't get anymore support from the fed, and they can't sell all these junk assets fast enough to cover their sheet. Meanwhile the bond insurers can't help them cover these losses. Several of them have been downgraded and I'm fairly sure one of them is about to go bankrupt.

Yes, but they paid out worthless paper to get those hard assets. The population is still growing, and those houses will be in demand within a year our two, guaranteed.

[losinglife]

Until their Volt comes out and other similar hybrids that ease the gasoline burden, GM, like others in the industry, are going to be sloping downhill.

thats a big IF they ever release the Volt. I have my doubts, tho i do hope it does get pushed thru.

Someone needs to take over the Insights top spot and keep it looking just as sweet of a car.

[Vanno]

Market took it in the a again today.

[Matriel]

Market took it in the a again today.

Oh shit it did. Except for my health care stuff, which strangely went up 3 dollars. I don't want it to go up yet!

[Vanno]

Oh shit it did. Except for my health care stuff, which strangely went up 3 dollars. I don't want it to go up yet!

Long run trend for Healthcare is up. A few gains, on bad days. aren't going to change that.

[Lacker]

Last two hours look like a waterfall. What happened? Ciscos earning were real bad?

Lehman down almost 12% on the day. Ouch. Hows that Bear Sterns business model working out for ya?

[lafayette]

Last two hours look like a waterfall. What happened?

The dollar droped, again. Last few days, and even last week the dollar had been rebounding. Which was strange considering the ECB rasied rates, the euro should have gained a lot sooner, guess it just took some time.

Oil droped the last two days , about $9 , it didnt really move today which is kind of strange, condsiering the dollar drop and the Iran BS.

Shit is just lagging IMO, will see tommorrow.

[Erroneous]

Slow news week I think its whispers regarding these bank capitalization issues

[Lacker]

Slow news week I think its whispers regarding these bank capitalization issues

Lehman down 11%
Fannie and Freddie both down 20% on the last two days.
Merrill down 9%


Wish I was short these assholes. Till the government saves them from their corporate fuck ups.

[Erroneous]

Lehman down 11%
Fannie and Freddie both down 20% on the last two days.
Merrill down 9%


Wish I was short these assholes. Till the government saves them from their corporate fuck ups.

This is dangerous stuff to trade on for Joe Investor. You hear about the news way after the trade is there. Indymac CD's are looking pretty nice for a short term way for some sure profits from this. Capitulation keep on coming.

[Matriel]

Long run trend for Healthcare is up. A few gains, on bad days. aren't going to change that.

The plan I jumped into is down like 15% for the year. Which is why I started buying it. Healthcare can't not go up with the legions of old bastards getting ready to die in this country.

[Slypieguy]

dow going back to 10k?

fuck this is painful

every time i look at the chart for AMD i wanna go put in a bullet in Hector's head

[greenman101]

dow going back to 10k?

fuck this is painful

every time i look at the chart for AMD i wanna go put in a bullet in Hector's head
Tell me about it. I'm down big here too finally. I'm considering liquidiating and taking a loss and just playing around with day trading and options to try and pull out a profit.

[losinglife]

everything keeps going down for me in the ole 401k... its pissin me off :p

[Vanno]

2% drop so far, normal bad day.

This is like the 10th "Normal bad" day in the last month or so.