Heller Affirmed.

[Matriel]

http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/

Heller was just affirmed. 2nd Amendment an individual right.

10:13 Ben Winograd -

The Court has released the opinion in District of Columbia v. Heller (07-290), on whether the District’s firearms regulations – which bar the possession of handguns and require shotguns and rifles to be kept disassembled or under trigger lock – violate the Second Amendment. The ruling below, which struck down the provisions in question, is affirmed.



Justice Scalia wrote the opinion. Justice Breyer dissented, joined by Justices Stevens, Souter and Ginsburg. We will provide a link to the decision as soon as it is available.
10:13 Tom Goldstein - Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a firearm.
10:14 Tom Goldstein - We'll post the opinion as soon as it is available.

FUCK YES.

[Tiberias]

How does this fit into HOPE and CHANGE though?

[Matriel]

How does this fit into HOPE and CHANGE though?

People in DC can buy hope that they won't be murdered with nothing to protect themselves now.

[Nafelos]

+1 for the Constitution. Could this be the forefront of a large change in the way States and Cities approach gun control?

[Matriel]

+1 for the Constitution. Could this be the forefront of a large change in the way States and Cities approach gun control?

Imo, it will be a long drawn out fight where shit is challenged all over the place. It also depends upon the details of the ruling. Still waiting on it.

[Matriel]

Opinion up here: http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/07-290.pdf

[Tiberias]

People in DC can buy hope that they won't be murdered with nothing to protect themselves now.

But after Obama is elected there will be no need to murder anyone, our glorious egalitarian socialist utopia will be free of such problems...

[F8alist]

This is huge. To my knowledge, the Supreme Court has never before addressed the issue of whether the 2nd amendment confers an individual or collective right. They've always danced around the issue on the relatively few occasions that they've had to rule on 2nd amendment cases.

[Lacker]

Ahh, we're(The republic) not dead yet. I think I'll go have another coffee to celebrate.

[Uzik]

Until we get rid of the two party system, the country is still fucked.

I love how it is almost always the same 5 v 4 rulings for supreme court shit.


Confederated States 4tw...

[Milo Hobgoblin]

Until we get rid of the two party system, the country is still fucked.

I love how it is almost always the same 5 v 4 rulings for supreme court shit.


Confederated States 4tw...

+1

[Capricious]

5-4 is kinda sad...:bang:

[Lacker]

Until we get rid of the two party system, the country is still fucked.

I love how it is almost always the same 5 v 4 rulings for supreme court shit.


Confederated States 4tw...

Thats why the democrats can't wait for one of them to die off. They're so close as it is.

[Matriel]

5-4 is kinda sad...:bang:

I was hoping for a 6-3 the way the public hearing went, but I guess that's why there were two dissenting opinions.

[Lacker]

The opinions are actually interesting to read. ALmost written as if was a flame fest. :lmao:


JUSTICE STEVENS criticizes us for discussing the prologue last. Post,
at 8.

More spread around the document. Seems Stevens was deadset on Guns being a militia right, not a citizen right.

[Killuminati]

Until we get rid of the two party system, the country is still fucked.

I love how it is almost always the same 5 v 4 rulings for supreme court shit.


Confederated States 4tw...

More like why do nine human beings have so much power over me?

[Lacker]

More like why do nine human beings have so much power over me?

A. Because they're a last resort check against Congress and the President. And general bullshit local/state laws.
B. They're both difficult to elect....and get rid of. Appointments are LIFETIME.
C. Because 9 people isn't much worse then 1 President or 100 Senators.

[Jezrith]

*Does Happy Dance*

[Killuminati]

A. Because they're a last resort check against Congress and the President. And general bullshit local/state laws.
B. They're both difficult to elect....and get rid of. Appointments are LIFETIME.
C. Because 9 people isn't much worse then 1 President or 100 Senators.

I didn't need a public school class answer.

[Lacker]

I didn't need a public school class answer.

So.... I don't get a cookie?

[Insomniak]

Until we get rid of the two party system, the country is still fucked.

QFT, man. Politics will be the downfall of modern society.

[F8alist]

Did the ruling address the issue of incorporation?

[Matriel]

Did the ruling address the issue of incorporation?

Not that I read, but then again the case wasn't about that. So, the fact that he took the time to detail it being an individual right is a good thing. And a couple sections imo are setups for challenges upon other restrictions later. All in all, with what the case was, it was a good ruling imo.

[Gunther TheBlack]

But after Obama is elected there will be no need to murder anyone, our glorious egalitarian socialist utopia will be free of such problems...

Obama is prolly the first socialist that is in favor of the death penalty then ;)

[Gunther TheBlack]

Until we get rid of the two party system, the country is still fucked.

I love how it is almost always the same 5 v 4 rulings for supreme court shit.


Confederated States 4tw...

Why won't you retards vote for nader or the libertarians then?


This president elections has 2 possible smaller parties that could grow to become proper parties one day.


BUT OOOOH NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. Many of the libertarian wannabes prolly vote obama or mccain instead of barr for retarded reasons like "i don't like the person". lol

[Killuminati]

Why won't you retards vote for ander or the libertarians then?


This president elections has 2 possible smaller parties that could grow to become proper parties one day.


BUT OOOOH NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. Many of the libertarian wannabes prolly vote obama or mccain instead of barr for retarded reasons like "i don't like the person". lol

Lol, the libertarian party is hardly any better than the main two parties. You are suggesting that a libertarian votes for Barr who is basically a republican ideologically. From what I've read he's a flip flopper just like Obama and Mccain. So only if one were a hypocrite would they consider voting for a Jr. Republican. There isn't such thing as a libertarian voting for Obama.

[Gunther TheBlack]

Lol, the libertarian party is hardly any better than the main two parties. You are suggesting that a libertarian votes for Barr who is basically a republican ideologically. From what I've read he's a flip flopper just like Obama and Mccain. So only if one were a hypocrite would they consider voting for a Jr. Republican. There isn't such thing as a libertarian voting for Obama.


So why do you guys bitch at the 2 party system then???


You get what you deserve.


Fits pretty fucking perfect here.

You curl and squirm in weird fucking turns to defend the system as it is now whenever someone proposes to vote for a minor party and in the meantime you keep bitching at the 2 party system.


You can almost say that every political ideology falls within either the democratic of republican party, so it's pretty easy to say "he's just another XXX"


Oh btw, one that never flipflops is a stubborn bitch not suited for politics because his ideology doesn't evolve and is stuck in the past. Facts and knowledge evolve, so should ideas and opinions.

[Capricious]

I consider myself a libertarian, but I'm not sold on Barr. So, between not voting for Obama/McCain I may just end up writing in RP.

[Gunther TheBlack]

I consider myself a libertarian, but I'm not sold on Barr. So, between not voting for Obama/McCain I may just end up writing in RP.

Even if you don't like Barr, voting for Barr still gives more impulse/recognition to the libertarian movement than not voting or voting republican or democrat.

I find it pretty pathetic, not to vote for a party because you don't like it's main candidate.

[Capricious]

Even if you don't like Barr, voting for Barr still gives more impulse/recognition to the libertarian movement than not voting or voting republican or democrat.

I find it pretty pathetic, not to vote for a party because you don't like it's main candidate.

I find it pathetic that Barr walks into the lib party and gets the nomination...

[F8alist]

McCain: Chicago Gun Ban Infringes On Rights (http://cbs2chicago.com/politics/mccain.handgun.ban.2.757688.html)

Republican Presidential Candidate Singles Out Chicago In Statement Praising Supreme Court Ruling

[Killuminati]

So why do you guys bitch at the 2 party system then???


You get what you deserve.


Fits pretty fucking perfect here.

You curl and squirm in weird fucking turns to defend the system as it is now whenever someone proposes to vote for a minor party and in the meantime you keep bitching at the 2 party system.


You can almost say that every political ideology falls within either the democratic of republican party, so it's pretty easy to say "he's just another XXX"


Oh btw, one that never flipflops is a stubborn bitch not suited for politics because his ideology doesn't evolve and is stuck in the past. Facts and knowledge evolve, so should ideas and opinions.

Flip flopping many times during an election time is done as a political tactic. Changing ones ideology or questioning ones beliefs is fine. But politicians change their position on issues based upon which demographic they may be speaking to or because of which state may be coming up to vote. This is done because people don't properly research a candidates positions so they are free to change them in order to better suit the circumstances they are in.

I'm not speaking for all libertarians though. There are some who believe voting for the Libertarian Party will move us in a better direction. Some even think compromises should be made in order to get Libertarianism in the mainstream.

[Battle]

I want my bear arms. (http://www.demopolislive.com/gallery/images/1/1_the_right_to_bear_arms.jpg)

I have a RIGHT!

[Gunther TheBlack]

I find it pathetic that Barr walks into the lib party and gets the nomination...

Aren't most libertarians republicans anyway? Because of the wide ideological stretch of the 2 main US parties.

Libertarians is a niche in the republican party. Because the republican party is moving further and further away from the "libertarian republican" ideology it's normal that republicans join the libertarian party.

[Gunther TheBlack]

Flip flopping many times during an election time is done as a political tactic. Changing ones ideology or questioning ones beliefs is fine. But politicians change their position on issues based upon which demographic they may be speaking to or because of which state may be coming up to vote. This is done because people don't properly research a candidates positions so they are free to change them in order to better suit the circumstances they are in.

I'm not speaking for all libertarians though. There are some who believe voting for the Libertarian Party will move us in a better direction. Some even think compromises should be made in order to get Libertarianism in the mainstream.

Yup. But i was thinking that you guys talked about flip flopping as in "if he changes his mind, even if it's only 1-5 times a year, it's bad" ;)

[lafayette]

Fuck Yeah! The Constitution wins this round, its going to have a tough fight the next 4 years though :(

[stalwart]

I was hoping for a 6-3 the way the public hearing went, but I guess that's why there were two dissenting opinions.

heh. careful there.

[Killuminati]

Aren't most libertarians republicans anyway? Because of the wide ideological stretch of the 2 main US parties.

Libertarians is a niche in the republican party. Because the republican party is moving further and further away from the "libertarian republican" ideology it's normal that republicans join the libertarian party.

Maybe during the Goldwater days but certainly not now. In fact Ron Paul was trying to revive that old Paleoconservative type libertarianism. But its been dead for a while and Republicans are now fascists. I guess a minority who consider themselves "traditional conservatives" might fall in under the Paulite Libertarian group.

[Indah]

woot. good ruling

[Fylraen]

I just logged on during work to congratulate Matriel on this. ;)

[Kaeso]

Hey I can cling to my religion and my guns now. Awesome.

[Kaorn]

More like why do nine human beings have so much power over me?

It's the robes, why do you think Duke has such a big clan?

[Carl Ragadamn]

I love that Scalia wrote it so scathingly that it should have been obvious to everyone that the 2nd Amendment confers an individual right.

[Kaorn]

I love that Scalia wrote it so scathingly that it should have been obvious to everyone that the 2nd Amendment confers an individual right.

Are they still going to sing Kumbaya together?

[Killuminati]

It's the robes, why do you think Duke has such a big clan?

haha

[Malhavok]

Why won't you retards vote for nader or the libertarians then?


This president elections has 2 possible smaller parties that could grow to become proper parties one day.


BUT OOOOH NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. Many of the libertarian wannabes prolly vote obama or mccain instead of barr for retarded reasons like "i don't like the person". lol

What libertarian? It's already been established by Barr's voting record that he's pro-fascism and anti-capitalism, which doesn't exactly make him much of a libertarian. Slypie says he's denouced his fascist special interest pandering corporate welfare ways, but I've yet to see him even say it let alone do it.

Why I'd want to give any name recognition to the libertarian party headed by an ultraconservative neocon is beyond me.

Back on topic decision sounds good, reading the majority opinion now.

[Gunther TheBlack]

What libertarian?


I don't know.....

Ron paul???


:p


Anyway, i guess you make a point with the rest you said, but if i was a US libertarian i would vote for a party and not a person. Americans seem to think that one person impersonates an entire party somehow.

[Milo Hobgoblin]

damn this makes me happy.

although the poltical fallout of states lining up to secede would have been pure joy too.

[Malhavok]

Some have made the argument, bordering on the frivolous,
that only those arms in existence in the 18th century
are protected by the Second Amendment. We do not interpret
constitutional rights that way. Just as the First
Amendment protects modern forms of communications,
e.g., Reno v. American Civil Liberties Union, 521 U. S. 844,
849 (1997), and the Fourth Amendment applies to modern
forms of search, e.g., Kyllo v. United States, 533 U. S. 27,
35–36 (2001), the Second Amendment extends, prima
facie, to all instruments that constitute bearable arms,
even those that were not in existence at the time of the
founding.


It may be objected that if weapons that are most useful
in military service—M-16 rifles and the like—may be
banned, then the Second Amendment right is completely
detached from the prefatory clause. But as we have said,
the conception of the militia at the time of the Second
Amendment’s ratification was the body of all citizens
capable of military service, who would bring the sorts of
lawful weapons that they possessed at home to militia
duty. It may well be true today that a militia, to be as
effective as militias in the 18th century, would require
sophisticated arms that are highly unusual in society at
large. Indeed, it may be true that no amount of small
arms could be useful against modern-day bombers and
tanks. But the fact that modern developments have limited
the degree of fit between the prefatory clause and the
protected right cannot change our interpretation of the
right.
blalh blah need text

[Malhavok]

I don't know.....

Ron paul???


:p


Anyway, i guess you make a point with the rest you said, but if i was a US libertarian i would vote for a party and not a person. Americans seem to think that one person impersonates an entire party somehow.

Ron Paul his firmly entrenched in the two-party system with no desire to break it. He's time and again said that he will not run as an independent... really the only thing that perpetuates it is the delusions of his fanatical followers as he's been pretty clear all the way through that he is campaigning as a Republican.

The presidential candidate for a party supposedly is the person who best represents the parties combined ideals. If Bob Barr is the best representative the libertarian party they aren't very libertarian.

[Capricious]

Anyway, i guess you make a point with the rest you said, but if i was a US libertarian i would vote for a party and not a person. Americans seem to think that one person impersonates an entire party somehow.

But the guy just walked into the libertarian party after a record that doesnt jibe with libertarians...Why would I want him to represent my ideals?

Plus, he has that shitty mustache goin on...

[Gunther TheBlack]

But the guy just walked into the libertarian party after a record that doesnt jibe with libertarians...Why would I want him to represent my ideals?

Plus, he has that shitty mustache goin on...


Don't bitch at being a 2 party crap hole then.

[Tiberias]

Obama is prolly the first socialist that is in favor of the death penalty then ;)

Stalin didn't kill people?

[Carl Ragadamn]

Stalin didn't kill people?

Nope didnt happen, only Hitler killed people.

[Gunther TheBlack]

Stalin didn't kill people?

He's a commie!

Those are uber socialists. Socialists are supposed to be pussies.

[Tiberias]

He's a commie!

Those are uber socialists. Socialists are supposed to be pussies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism_in_one_country

Let's not fight over trivialities.

[Capricious]

Don't bitch at being a 2 party crap hole then.

I can bitch all I want, but why have a 3rd party thats full of shit as well? I just disagree with the lib party's nomination.

[Carl Ragadamn]

I can bitch all I want, but why have a 3rd party thats full of shit as well? I just disagree with the lib party's nomination.

I am not Libertarian but I was depressed to see them go with a soft sell approach instead of holding to their ideals at the very moment in history where they stood to gain the most support.

[Matriel]

I just logged on during work to congratulate Matriel on this. ;)

You is gud frend.

[Cards]

I think we will be seeing a lot more gun rights cases coming up in the near future.

[Carl Ragadamn]

Chicago's ban will be the next to fall.

[Arkh]

Congrats USA !

[Haldred]

I feel like listening to the national anthem.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=QRvVzaQ6i8A

[Carl Ragadamn]

I feel like listening to the national anthem.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=QRvVzaQ6i8A

Battle hymn of the Republic is better in this instance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irZmknvOB4I

[Deja vu]

Grats to America.

[Carl Ragadamn]

Grats to America.

You mean grats to all humans inherient right to protect themselves from threats.

[Deja vu]

You mean grats to all humans inherient right to protect themselves from threats.

Indeed, well spoken!

[Jargo]

Woot! It’s nice to hear some good news for a change.

[Carl Ragadamn]

Woot! It’s nice to hear some good news for a change.

The idea that a fundamental right came down to Kennedy deciding whether or not to rape the constitution that day is a bit disconcerting though.

[arkdecon13]

wait so are we ok with people losing their righ to bear arms or are we ok with people bearing arms?

[Aragoni]

Yin & Yang. Even in the darkests hours there are events that makes me happy once again. :)

[Ferox]

http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/

Heller was just affirmed. 2nd Amendment an individual right.



FUCK YES.

High 5 brother!


woowho

[Slypieguy]

You people whining about Barr and refusing to vote libertarian because of him need to wake the hell up. He has no chance to win, while at the same time he has a chance to grow the libertarian name. I can't think of a possible better time to vote for a guy you don't like. All this writing in Ron Paul nonsense will make about as much a difference as shitting on the ballot and turning it in, knock it off.

[Slypieguy]

http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/

Heller was just affirmed. 2nd Amendment an individual right.

FUCK YES.

Like this was ever even any question to anyone not wearing the lefty party blinders anyway. Good to finally have it in writing though.

[Carl Ragadamn]

If you want to write someone in, write in The Ghost of Patrick Henry.

[Thrill_KIll]

Does this mean the Supreme Court is full of "crazy rednecks who love guns and have bastardized the Bill of Rights" too? Or does this affirm people who say the 2nd ammendment does not give people the right to bear arms are in fact, morons?

[losinglife]

go go gun rights!

On the barr/libertarian issue, you would be stupid not to vote for him just cause of that. He isnt going to win, even i admit it, but he has the best chance of putting a 3rd party over the 5% needed.

This is pretty much the best thing that could happen to america. A viable 3rd party? It doesnt matter if it was a communist party, it would put the other 2 back in check and get rid of the 2 party system.

Not to mention open teh door for more 3rd parties.

Plus writing in RP is sadly a waste at this point.

My money is on Barr if Mccain doesnt die of a heart attack and RP gets the nom.

[Tiberias]

Like this was ever even any question to anyone not wearing the lefty party blinders anyway. Good to finally have it in writing though.

It's been in plain english since 1791... you think this ruling will mean anything to any collectivist?

[Carl Ragadamn]

It's been in plain english since 1791... you think this ruling will mean anything to any collectivist?

It means they need to be more sneaky in their legal encroachments.

[Matriel]

It's been in plain english since 1791... you think this ruling will mean anything to any collectivist?

They are gonna be pretty busy with challenges to state/local laws that were put in place on the basis of 2A being a collectivist right. New York, Illanoy, and Kommifornia are gonna have a rough couple of years real soon. :p

[Malhavok]

You people whining about Barr and refusing to vote libertarian because of him need to wake the hell up. He has no chance to win, while at the same time he has a chance to grow the libertarian name. I can't think of a possible better time to vote for a guy you don't like. All this writing in Ron Paul nonsense will make about as much a difference as shitting on the ballot and turning it in, knock it off.

So you're saying we should cast our vote for an ultraconservative neocon just because he put on a libertarian lapel pin? Might as well just vote McCain at least he has a stronger voting record of defending civil rights & liberties than Bob Barr while being marginally more free-market friendly.

[Killuminati]

You people whining about Barr and refusing to vote libertarian because of him need to wake the hell up. He has no chance to win, while at the same time he has a chance to grow the libertarian name. I can't think of a possible better time to vote for a guy you don't like. All this writing in Ron Paul nonsense will make about as much a difference as shitting on the ballot and turning it in, knock it off.

Thats why I'm writing in Cthulhu!

[Malhavok]

Thats why I'm writing in Cthulhu!

Its getting tempting... plus I live in California so it's already a foregone conclusion that Obama will win so it really doesn't matter what I vote for.

[LanMandragon]

As a gun owning liberal, fuck yes!

[lafayette]

Kommifornia

I hate my fucking state, i moved up to Oregon back in 99, and had to move back home in 03. Now that i dont have to worry about taking care of my mother im getting the fuck out of this bitch ASAP.

Montana is #1 on my list.

[Killuminati]

Its getting tempting... plus I live in California so it's already a foregone conclusion that Obama will win so it really doesn't matter what I vote for.

Its time to move, buddy.

[Matriel]

I hate my fucking state, i moved up to Oregon back in 99, and had to move back home in 03. Now that i dont have to worry about taking care of my mother im getting the fuck out of this bitch ASAP.

Montana is #1 on my list.

Evidently the NRA opened up lawsuits in several states today, so maybe it will change. Wouldn't hold my breath though.

[Slypieguy]

So you're saying we should cast our vote for an ultraconservative neocon just because he put on a libertarian lapel pin? Might as well just vote McCain at least he has a stronger voting record of defending civil rights & liberties than Bob Barr while being marginally more free-market friendly.

1. He's not a neocon anymore
2. Even if he was, he can't win and the LP's future nominees won't be neocons, so federal funding for them would still be beneficial

[lafayette]

Evidently the NRA opened up lawsuits in several states today, so maybe it will change. Wouldn't hold my breath though.

Wanting to GTFO of Califorina isnt just for the gun laws. Southern CA must be the place where evey other state sends their unwanted, Mexico too.

[Malhavok]

1. He's not a neocon anymore
2. Even if he was, he can't win and the LP's future nominees won't be neocons, so federal funding for them would still be beneficial

And what are you basing this off of other than his libertarian lapel pin? He was instrumental in writing the Patriot Act. And still thinks that infringing personal upon liberties is a good idea and that there is nothing wrong with the Patriot Act. To me that alone means he's no libertarian. Even if he came up with some excuse for his past fascist voting record, which he has not done, and renounced his special interest corporate welfare anti-free trade voting record, which again he has not done, he still would not be a libertarian. A strong believe in defending personal liberties is paramount if you want to call yourself a libertarian. Bob Barr doesn't have any such belief.

edit:
Apparently I'm not the only one who realizes he's no capitalist...
http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/2008/05/14/is-bob-barr-a-libertarian-certainly-not-on-trade/
When he stands before the Libertarian Party convention next week, Bob Barr needs to tell delegates either that he was wrong all along about free trade or that Adam Smith was wrong.

[Tiberias]

1. He's not a neocon anymore
2. Even if he was, he can't win and the LP's future nominees won't be neocons, so federal funding for them would still be beneficial

I just don't ever see the Libertarians having mass appeal though, they're too close to the Republican platform for 99% of Americans to see a difference. Same, but opposite, thing for Socialist Workers Party USA... 99% of America is like "meh, I'll just vote Democrat, pretty much the same thing without all the communes."