FRA is crumbling - democracy is winning in Sweden!

[Tharkon Fargor]

Well according to polls the amount of people that oppose the new legislation is from 86.5% (Expressen) to 56.5% (Metro). Those that support it range from 7.9% to a maximal of 26.5%.

Today demonstrations were held by most political youth groups ranging from the far left to the liberal and conservative right.
On other sites even the nationalists have expressed their disgust for the proposal.

Despite the current governments promise to listen more to the people than the previous social democratic government has and to respect privacy more they didn't seem to care to much in the beginning.

Despite claims from Google that this is something not even China would adopt and claims from the Security Police Chief that this is the biggest threat to privacy Sweden has ever faced the elites in the 4 ruling party pushed forward for this telling their party members that they *must* vote as the party has agreed to do and that nothing will be changed in the law.

Today though after several brave politicians said they would oppose the party line (reminds me of the fucking Soviet union) and vote against this proposal, after demonstrations and massive mail inquiries to the government the proposal has fallen.

It is now to be rewritten completely and if the integrity of the citizen and the media isn't protected then it is going to fail in government almost surely.


Sources: http://www.expressen.se/1.1202760/racker-regeringens-forslag?poll_1_1202760=s&articlePopup=true - Poll expressen.
http://www.metro.se/se/article/tt/2008/06/18/fra/index.xml - Metro, can't find the poll online made by a polling company but it's in the paper version at least.


http://www.ekuriren.se/ekuriren/standard_artikel.php?id=696311&avdelning_1=107&avdelning_2=203 - Critical of the FRA (Threatens the open society)
http://www.sr.se/cgi-bin/ekot/artikel.asp?Artikel=2142127 (The proposal falls)
http://www.thelocal.se/12508/20080618/ ( In english )


About FRA:
http://www.fra.se/english.shtml
http://www.stoppafralagen.nu/

[Taroth]

Sorry, I don't speak foreigner

[Yobaj]

Thank god.
But still, the new proposition will be as stupid as the last one.
The whole idea is fucked up.

[Tharkon Fargor]

I know I know.

But demonstrations are going to be held through out the whole day and tomorow to.
Just get everyone you know to get out with you and demosntrate and keep mailing people!


I'm actually a bit in the dark... have they decided when to vote about the new one?
Bah it's like they are actually *trying* to confuse the public as much as possible and get this passed unoticed.

[Yobaj]

No, we don't know when they will vote it through, since "Försvarsutskottet" have to get their "Betänkande" done, and that can take everything from a week to a month. But since they already know what to change in their "Betänkande" it will most likely be done very soon.

Försvarsutskottet= defense committee
Betänkande = The committee's proposition

[Tharkon Fargor]

They said it might be even today... or tomorow in the newspapers.


Bah as I said, they are *trying* to confuse people. They don't want to inform the public at all. Well lets hope those brave souls still in there vote no in the future to and that more people join them.

Holding small demonstrations near the defense ministers house could maybe work to.
I'm just brainstorming here.

[Yobaj]

They said it might be even today... or tomorow in the newspapers.


Bah as I said, they are *trying* to confuse people. They don't want to inform the public at all. Well lets hope those brave souls still in there vote no in the future to and that more people join them.

Holding small demonstrations near the defense ministers house could maybe work to.
I'm just brainstorming here.
They would never say no to the new proposition.
That would be to much for "Alliansen", they would never accept it, most probably the persons voting no would taste the "Party-whip".

[Helgeran]

Nothing has changed, they just delayed it a few hours. I was planning to go to the demonstration but I had to work, I'll probably paint a giant eye on the sign and camp outside the door of someone I mailed and be like "just watching for terrorism" when they head to work and face the giant eye.

I think it's funny though how my entire youth believing in socialism shifts to liberalism and then the "liberals" turn out to be good old orwellians. All of the governing parties have forever burnt my vote for them because of this betrayal, I'll probably be Pirate Party for life.

[Tharkon Fargor]

Bah and I remember the liberals and the center party I think always talking about "person voting" and individual rights. (That is that the representatives themselves decided not the party as a whole) but lol...talk about backstabbing the voters twice in one day.

[Yobaj]

Nothing has changed, they just delayed it a few hours. I was planning to go to the demonstration but I had to work, I'll probably paint a giant eye on the sign and camp outside the door of someone I mailed and be like "just watching for terrorism" when they head to work and face the giant eye.
Hahaha.
Please do it, and film it.

[Tharkon Fargor]

Hahaha.
Please do it, and film it.

I'm fucking up for it lol...Seriously wanna do it? PM me :D

[Helgeran]

Hahaha.
Please do it, and film it.
Yeah filming would be great. "Don't worry, I'll erase it if it doesn't contain terrorism."

[Tharkon Fargor]

Wanna do it wanna do it?

[Yobaj]

I suppose I'm in lol, any1 of u have a car? :p

[Tharkon Fargor]

Add the msn ^^ We'll talk there.

[Wufiavelli]

Its a signal intelligence service? I am confused, you guys voting down a Swedish NSA or something.

[Tharkon Fargor]

Nah its more like the patriot act.

[Kietharr]

Fucking swedes, get your own fearmongering tactic. America called dibs on terrorism and let England borrow it because Tony Blair is a cool dude. Anyways, I bet you guys wish you had guns now so you could talk about a revolution over the internets.

[lafayette]

We invaded Sweden?

[Yobaj]

We invaded Sweden?
You have your henchmen here, their doing it for you.

[lafayette]

You have your henchmen here, their doing it for you.

Blackwater?

[Ammon777]

Fucking swedes, get your own fearmongering tactic. America called dibs on terrorism and let England borrow it because Tony Blair is a cool dude. Anyways, I bet you guys wish you had guns now so you could talk about a revolution over the internets.

yOU GUYS dont have GUNS? How do you KILL rabbits to ROAST?

[Helgeran]

Its a signal intelligence service? I am confused, you guys voting down a Swedish NSA or something.
It's an old department listening to radio waves to gather intellligence about foreign threats but now most information traffic occur in cables so they want to tap all the communications passing our borders, which mostly means ordinary peoples shit when being online (like this very post) or text messages on cell phones and sometimes even intra country traffic since many times messages bounce on a forgeign server because it's a faster way. It's echelon but done by our government aimed at us instead of some foreign assholes aimed at everyone.

[Red-Eye]

Its a signal intelligence service? I am confused, you guys voting down a Swedish NSA or something.

Well, we're trying. Isnt going that well...

[Nasty]

Yeah, seeing as Sweden is crumbling in failed immigration policy and mostly from countries that hate your fucking guts the last thing you want is counter terrorism!

[Drudley]

500 SEK says it passes.

[Aragoni]

I've already put up some flyers around town but I cannot do so much more. Piteå is a shitty town.

[Tharkon Fargor]

500 SEK says it passes.

Well the first law already fell.

mostly from countries that hate your fucking guts

Except the United States no country has put political pressure on us since the Soviet Union. So you kindoff shot yourself in the foot there.

Most countries around the world enjoy good relations with Sweden.

[stalwart]

sweden is cool.

http://www.thelocal.se/12528/20080618/

[Bissen]

Sorry, I don't speak foreigner


You speak stupid fluent though.

[Agge]

sweden is cool.

http://www.thelocal.se/12528/20080618/

We're building a giant elk? cool.

[Helgeran]

Yeah, seeing as Sweden is crumbling in failed immigration policy and mostly from countries that hate your fucking guts the last thing you want is counter terrorism!
Grrr I hate Sweden so much I'd better move there and kill them.

You should be the Al-Qaeda master strategist imo.

[Aragoni]

The government voted "yes". Good game Sweden, I just want to fucking throw a nuke over this bloody country.

[Helgeran]

Gratz to the current administration for removing themselves from office next election. Just hope the next government has the sensibility to remove this shit.

[Tharkon Fargor]

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK I DAMN THIS WORLD AND THE BACKSTABBING LEADERS THAT INHABIT IT!


Now we have to petition the left. Bombard the social democrats. Make them promise that they will remove FRA if we vote on them.

[Desperado[1G]]

who knew putting vikings in control of a government would be a bad thing?

[Aragoni]

You people honestly think the Social Democrats would make a difference? ROFL!
The thing is that they proposed a simillar law back in '04/'05 (don't remember) but it got turned down. Bodströmssamhället någon?

We need new fucking parties in the government or else Sweden will become authoritan within 20years. Where are my guns?!

[Aragoni]

;1412917']who knew putting vikings in control of a government would be a bad thing?

I wouldn't call those in the government "Vikings", instead I'd call them "retards".
I supported Moderaterna back in '06 but after this I won't even touch them, or any other "rightist" party, with a fucking 100-feet pole.
This is fucking silly..... :bang::bang:

[Helgeran]

You people honestly think the Social Democrats would make a difference? ROFL!
The thing is that they proposed a simillar law back in '04/'05 (don't remember) but it got turned down. Bodströmssamhället någon?

We need new fucking parties in the government or else Sweden will become authoritan within 20years. Where are my guns?!
You can get a gun lol, how do you think hunters kill their shit?

Bodström has done a 180' turn since they lost power so he's as sneaky and slimey as the current majority although he never claimed to be a liberal. Reminds me of my old fear for Folkpartiet and Paro's response to it.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b211/Plumbumdeath/paropwnsbjorklund.jpg

[Aragoni]

You can get a gun lol, how do you think hunters kill their shit?

Because you sure as hell can make a revolution with rifles when you're facing tanks! Guerilla Warfare would maybe work but not a full-scale assault.

Bodström has done a 180' turn since they lost power so he's as sneaky and slimey as the current majority although he never claimed to be a liberal. Reminds me of my old fear for Folkpartiet and Paro's response to it.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b211/Plumbumdeath/paropwnsbjorklund.jpg

Bodström is, and always will be, a tyrant.

[Helgeran]

Because you sure as hell can make a revolution with rifles when you're facing tanks! Guerilla Warfare would maybe work but not a full-scale assault.
And americans get to own tank-mines or AT-equipment? Just make some molotovs and do what infantry do best: tank.

[Aragoni]

And americans get to own tank-mines or AT-equipment? Just make some molotovs and do what infantry do best: tank.

No but they get machine guns and lovely things like that! :sly:

Edit: And I doubt molotovs can do shit against the tanks that the Swedish army uses (that German tank.. whatever it's called).

[Drudley]

Where's my 500 SEK?

[Mneh]

I'm so adding national security threat keywords to all my mails from now on, just for funsies.


Any idea what the keywords might be?

[Helgeran]

I'm so adding national security threat keywords to all my mails from now on, just for funsies.


Any idea what the keywords might be?
Probably things terrorists will blatantly avoid + things they will get a kick reading. Turban, bomb, blood resp. sex.

[Helgeran]

No but they get machine guns and lovely things like that! :sly:

Edit: And I doubt molotovs can do shit against the tanks that the Swedish army uses (that German tank.. whatever it's called).
I don't think full auto makes a difference if you can shoot for shit. M4 have a three shot burst limit anyway because giving infantry full auto weapons wasn't cost effective by any stretch since the bullet to kill ratio was something like 50,000:1 in Vietnam.

[Justinian]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7463333.stm

yep

[Bissen]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7463333.stm

yep


WTF?

I thought they failed with that crap?

[Shads]

Wow for once I'll have something bad to say about Sweden.

[Agge]

of whatever respect I had for this country... there is nothing left.

[Helgeran]

Lets hope this is not forgotten and never forgiven so that the current right block can be succeeded by other parties who are truly believers of liberalism.

[Aragoni]

Lets hope this is not forgotten and never forgiven so that the current right block can be succeeded by other parties who are truly believers of liberalism.

http://www.liberalapartiet.se/
Thinking about voting on those guys. There's no way in hell that they will get into the Riksdag but wtf... LIBERALISM SHALL BE VICTORIOUS!

[Tharkon Fargor]

There's already plans to take this to the European court of Justice and other places.
And we will try to petition the Social Democrats to remove the law when they come to power.

Also the first law failed... this one is almost as bad, but at least it's not as bad.

PS: Not to mention the law that failed in 2006 or 2007 that was even worse than this one.

So it's gone from REALLY REALLY FUCKING BAD... to REALLY REALLY BAD... to REALLY BAD.

[Agge]

I hope somone kills reinfeldt already. People seem to like to kill the good people like palme or kennedy... But this asshole...

fucking ey.

[Tharkon Fargor]

That asshole was in Austria on Football EM to avoid the debate...

[Kietharr]

AWMIGAWDS TEH GOVERNMENT CAN HEAR ME NOW WORLD IS OVER. Note that the patriot act didn't kill America. Honestly it's disturbing in principle but more likely than not not one swede on these forums will feel the effects of this, unless you like to discuss terrorist pedophilia over the phone/e-mail.

[Shads]

AWMIGAWDS TEH GOVERNMENT CAN HEAR ME NOW WORLD IS OVER. Note that the patriot act didn't kill America. Honestly it's disturbing in principle but more likely than not not one swede on these forums will feel the effects of this, unless you like to discuss terrorist pedophilia over the phone/e-mail.

Well if you're happy about your government knowing about everything you're doing on the Internet, that's fine. The problem for me is that other governments might start doing it pointing to Sweden as a precedent, and I'm really not happy about that because we in Europe should know better than to create a surveillance society.

[Killuminati]

AWMIGAWDS TEH GOVERNMENT CAN HEAR ME NOW WORLD IS OVER. Note that the patriot act didn't kill America. Honestly it's disturbing in principle but more likely than not not one swede on these forums will feel the effects of this, unless you like to discuss terrorist pedophilia over the phone/e-mail.

they'd arrest you for polluting the internet with stupid.

[Gunther TheBlack]

There's already plans to take this to the European court of Justice and other places.
And we will try to petition the Social Democrats to remove the law when they come to power.

Also the first law failed... this one is almost as bad, but at least it's not as bad.

PS: Not to mention the law that failed in 2006 or 2007 that was even worse than this one.

So it's gone from REALLY REALLY FUCKING BAD... to REALLY REALLY BAD... to REALLY BAD.


Leave the union out of this bitch. Last time i checked you didn't want them to interfere with domestic issues.

Hypocrites, pffft

[Tharkon Fargor]

I know I know. I'm feeling bad as it is :(

But really, if we let this through it won't be long before Swedens officials suggest somethign to Belgium to :)

So we better stop it where ever we can Günther because this is realy the patriot act of Sweden/Europe.

Our government is breaking what it promised on election day and the parties are breaking their own platforms and the Swedish constitution :/

We're dealing with a rouge/criminal government here.

[Agge]

People where fools to belive their lies in the first place.

I remember the big signs with this quote: The new worker party

Hah!

Staten å kapitalet.

[Tharkon Fargor]

Jaja...

Maybe. But it's not really about that. They've done what they said they would otherwise - well mostly. The people just didn't realise it I guess due to their massive propaganda campaign.


But seriously, this what they are doing now is against the suggestions of terrorist experts and lawyers in Sweden. It is against the wishes of the people and it is against their own platform. Not to mention the Swedish constitution.


There must be a way to crush this law... seriously.

[Agge]

Hire an assassin... no, many assassin.

Ya know, those terrorist would be damn fine having for this job... irony.

[Aragoni]

We need Ron Paul, or Bill Maher.

[Agge]

Or maybe somone could start something that doesn't suck dick and I'd give them my vote.

[Aragoni]

Or maybe somone could start something that doesn't suck dick and I'd give them my vote.

Thinking about voting on Sverigedemokraterna. Sweden is fucked up anyway so why not make it even worse?

[Agge]

Lol, yeah well, whatever floats... sinks your boat.

Avlivning.

[Aragoni]

Lol, yeah well, whatever floats... sinks your boat.

Avlivning.

Meh.. Maybe Piratpartiet then since I want.... Oh, I just remember that we aren't allowed to discuss piracy :ninja:

[Tharkon Fargor]

=/ Yeah at least you know that they want to create a racist quazi dictatorship.

These others then you don't know.


But if the Swedish democrats get power and try to tell me and my parents after having studied and worked in this country to leave then you can expect me to fight back with more than plackards and words.


About Piratpartiet...Yeah awesome party.
I'm probably going to vote for them.

Actually I PM:ed Brannock. He said we can discuss piracy but not how to pirate or where to pirate or that we are going to pirate.

[Aragoni]

But if the Swedish democrats get power and try to tell me and my parents after having studied and worked in this country to leave then you can expect me to fight back with more than plackards and words.

Yeah! Show those tanks the end of your pitchfork!
Revolution is impossible in Sweden since we lack the mindset to start one. But then again, a spark can start a fire so if you are really passionate about it then prehaps you can convert people to the right side!

[Agge]

I don't know shit about piratpartiet though, but if they seem serius I don't see why not.

Anyways, Im gonna go get some sleep and prepare myself for tomorows suprise buttsekz.

[Gunther TheBlack]

So we better stop it where ever we can Günther because this is realy the patriot act of Sweden/Europe.


The belgian liberals would rather shoot themselves before they support such a thing :p

[Tharkon Fargor]

It was the liberals here that allowed it =/

[Gunther TheBlack]

It was the liberals here that allowed it =/

You sure got weird fecking liberals in sweden then.

Are it conservative or social liberals?


In Belgium we have 7 liberal parties on the flemish side and 3 at the french speaking side.

They range from borderline social(ist) liberals to ultra conservative liberals.

[Aragoni]

It was the liberals here that allowed it =/

They really aren't liberals. Such a fucking lack of respect for integrity. Maybe we can call them neo-liberals? :D

[Helgeran]

AWMIGAWDS TEH GOVERNMENT CAN HEAR ME NOW WORLD IS OVER. Note that the patriot act didn't kill America. Honestly it's disturbing in principle but more likely than not not one swede on these forums will feel the effects of this, unless you like to discuss terrorist pedophilia over the phone/e-mail.
Look at my forumfall posts, I'm already discussing that kind of shit daily. This isn't even the first step towards an Orwellian society, since a couple of years back the phone companies have to store all text messages for three years and they are used in criminal investigations. That law can at least be defended since it has given results + only suspects' messages are ever touched by the grace of a scanning program. I'm still against it though.

[Tharkon Fargor]

Exacly that's the thing. They got lured by the fearmongering from US or something...I don't really know if they used their brains.

But Stockholm and Östergötaland districts refused to support this and I bet alot of Folkpartister (liberals) in their hearts wanted to vote no but didn't dare to go against the party whip.

Their youth group was together on the streets with everyone ellse demonstrating.

[Helgeran]

You sure got weird fecking liberals in sweden then.

Are it conservative or social liberals?


In Belgium we have 7 liberal parties on the flemish side and 3 at the french speaking side.

They range from borderline social(ist) liberals to ultra conservative liberals.
Conservative as fuck. I'd call them the most conservative party actually since the Moderates (the biggest party atm and the party normally viewed as the classic representative of the right) are almost identical with the Social democrats now. Sad thing is the liberals have many good members that are social liberals or just classic liberals with common sense (one of them voted no and one abstained).

[Gunther TheBlack]

Conservative as fuck. I'd call them the most conservative party actually since the Moderates (the biggest party atm and the party normally viewed as the classic representative of the right) are almost identical with the Social democrats now. Sad thing is the liberals have many good members that are social liberals or just classic liberals with common sense (one of them voted no and one abstained).

He reminds me of some of the "wannabe" liberals in belgium. They mostly inhabit the moderate liberal party but they stand out with very harsh crowd control ideas and police state ideologies to keep criminals in check. These would also support something as the FRA here.


Crime should be properly punished as these liberals advocate, but they seem to forget to have any respect towards the freedom of privacy in their zealot quest to rid the world of potential evil.


Anyway, those guys are part of the moderate liberals in belgium. We have 3 way more conservative liberal parties than them, on a more economic level.

They also support the idea of "the government doesn't need to hold your hand" idea a lot more than the moderate liberals or social liberals.

[Bamboopanda]

Because you sure as hell can make a revolution with rifles when you're facing tanks! Guerilla Warfare would maybe work but not a full-scale assault.

Bodström is, and always will be, a tyrant.

Guerilla warfare is not about the quick win or the fast war. It a slow brutal and calculated type of warfare where a decade of war is not out of the question. That gives plenty of time for that 90 year old man with his ancient bolt action rife and home made mines to take many more down than most men 70 years his younger would ever kill in conventional warfare.