Ign Vault - Darkfall Peek Of The Week #8

[Gowel]

"Razorwax has been hard at work enhancing its graphics technology. We get the chance to see some early results."

That's all for now, since the link seems to be busted. I emailed their updater, hopefully it'll be up soon.

[Airius Droc]

link? :)

[Gowel]

Still waiting on a fix. I'll update with a link here and this post will be moved to the "News and Official Announcements" section when it happens.

[rekker]

"Still waiting on a fix. "

druggy

[Gowel]

http://rpgvault.ign.com/articles/454/454416p1.html

It's up, the thumbnails are working, but not the links on the media page yet.

[Yggdrasil]

It looks sooooooo sweet, cant wait to see the larger versions :)

[AshTheUgly]

Doh! Grass on steroids!

You could get lost in that grass.

[Gowel]

Some people are having problems with the links. Here are the direct links to the 4 screenshots.

http://vaultmedia.ign.com/rpgvault/image/d...kfall101301.jpg (http://vaultmedia.ign.com/rpgvault/image/darkfall101301.jpg)

http://vaultmedia.ign.com/rpgvault/image/d...kfall101302.jpg (http://vaultmedia.ign.com/rpgvault/image/darkfall101302.jpg)

http://vaultmedia.ign.com/rpgvault/image/d...kfall101303.jpg (http://vaultmedia.ign.com/rpgvault/image/darkfall101303.jpg)

http://vaultmedia.ign.com/rpgvault/image/d...kfall101304.jpg (http://vaultmedia.ign.com/rpgvault/image/darkfall101304.jpg)

[Airius Droc]

Ok, the first thing I'm going to do in Darkfall is climb that big tree in the background. :)

The screenshots look great, I didn't expect to see "better" graphics. I thought the ones we'd been seeing were already good enough.

[Stereoviewer]

Although they came as a glad surprise, the pics didn't satisfy my hunger. I know I

[Dorundain]

Looking good.

Are we going to be able to sheathe our swords? I don't remember getting an answer to that one. It's basically just eye candy, but as eye candy goes, it would be pretty neat.

[Airius Droc]

Yes, we can sheath our swords. :)

[Porthios]

I think that the sky should be more blue.

[Phooey]

Hm... those are pretty good screen shots considering they were taken using only a Radeon 9000.

[Zerocool749]

Personally those screenshots and graphics arent as impressive as other games currently in development such as EQ2, Mythica. But thats not why im interested in the game. Plus, those arent the final graphics and best graphic card, so i will give the graphics some time

[soy]

:blink:

more proof that they are nowhere near any sort of public beta <_<

[Gowel]

Originally posted by Zerocool749@Oct 13 2003, 07:04 PM
Personally those screenshots and graphics arent as impressive as other games currently in development such as EQ2, Mythica. But thats not why im interested in the game. Plus, those arent the final graphics and best graphic card, so i will give the graphics some time
Well, personally, I think the graphics look good, but what you say is true. However, I don&#39;t think they are really going for eye candy as much as some of the other games in development. The trend for MMORPGs lately, seems to be for them to work on graphics first and content & gameplay later. The Darkfall guys are doing it a bit different. They&#39;re building their game with playability in mind. As we&#39;ve heard recently from Claus, level of detail is considered when anything graphically is added to the game. They want the game to be playable with as many people as they can get on the screen, so that we can have all these large scale city sieges and clan wars that alot of us are looking forward to. They are pretty much giving us the best graphics they can, without sacrificing gameplay. I don&#39;t know about everyone else, but I&#39;m very grateful for it and I think it&#39;s a very smart move.

[Gowel]

Originally posted by soy@Oct 13 2003, 07:39 PM
:blink:

more proof that they are nowhere near any sort of public beta <_<
Sort of a silly assumption. I&#39;d like to know what it is that you see, or don&#39;t see, in those screenshots to lead you to that sort of conclusion.

[Sachem]

The cape on Male character #2 had better be blowing in the wind, or swirling. No static cape to make me cry. Seriously there&#39;s hard to find anything to complain about, in point of fact the deeper shadows are superb, anyone could hide by the structures in this lighting - dawn??

[Calypso]

meh..

Show us what a player city might look like, clanstone, workshops. Weve seen humans weve seen armour weve seen grass and even those houses. Sorry im just not seeing the love. Where are these devs realy at? How far have they truely come?

[Darkmatter]

"A lot of the eye candy elements are not yet represented in this batch of scenes, but the technology to is being worked in, and the results will be shown in the near future."


The graphics on these screenshots are not good. I hope they have it under control as stated, and that we in the "near future" will be able to see what kind of visual quality we will have to put up with. But everyone is aware of that this game will be one of the most advanced games regarding gameplay, the games with good gameplay usually lasts the longest. The engine and the game has to be able to do -all- those things promised to us we could do ingame, and if they have to sacrifice ""eye candy"" to make it work, then so be it. However, making this current graphic smoother around the edges is not considered ""Eye candy elements"" imo. Games both outside and inside the mmog genre will have to use the best graphics possible (by saying possible, I mean what is possible without discluding features promised in the game) to compete. There are many games that will be compared to Darkfall Online - both graphical and gameplay wise. The graphics are the first thing people notice, but eventually the beautiful surroundings will be normal - and it is then people start to wonder if it&#39;s more to this game than just a beautiful scenery..

conclusion: :rolleyes:
The current graphics are not good. If you have technology that can bring a nice and up to date look to the game, considered the standards set by the newest games out, without sacrificing gameplay features then this is going to be great. But if something has to have the highest priority, go with gameplay before tons of Eye candy - players will eventually understand.

[Blade]

Like Niadr, I dont think those grafix are too good. Even less if I compare with the screens of the races we

[Gowel]

I understand what some of you are trying to get at, but you sound as if you know for certain that they could do a major upgrade to the graphics and still have a playable game.

Please show me one MMORPG that is out already, that has more gameplay features than Darkfall is planned to have, that has better graphics.

Can&#39;t do it?

Okay then, please show me one upcoming MMORPG that has more gameplay features planned than Darkfall is planning to have, that has better graphics AND runs everything smoothly.

Hrm, still can&#39;t do it?

The point here is that people claiming that Darkfall has "bad graphics", is based on the comparison of what you&#39;ve seen in these screenshots with what you&#39;ve seen in other upcoming unreleased MMORPG game&#39;s screenshots. You haven&#39;t played any of those upcoming games to be able to judge how smooth the gameplay actually is with those great graphics.

In my opinion and my experiences with SOE, it will be a miracle if games like EQ2 are playable at all, with 20-30 people on screen at once, but time will tell. I only mention EQ2, because from what I&#39;ve seen of all the new upcoming games, it&#39;s the only one that looks better than Darkfall.

Anyway, I just think it&#39;s wrong to be claiming Darkfall has "bad graphics" when it really doesn&#39;t. And back to my, and Niadr&#39;s overall point, even if the graphics aren&#39;t as good as some of the upcoming MMORPGs, it&#39;s okay, because gameplay & fun are the most important aspects of a game and graphics are secondary.

It&#39;s really unfair to be saying that DF has bad graphics and claiming that they could make them better, because we simply do not know if they could and from what Claus has said, they are making the best graphics they can, but gameplay is king.

*shrug*

[Gowel]

[quote]Originally posted by Blade@Oct 14 2003, 11:50 AM
[b] Like Niadr, I dont think those grafix are too good. Even less if I compare with the screens of the races we

[Blade]

Yeah Gowel, I forgot that the race models where renderings, but mostly I was comparing to the same screenshots you refer to, the ones with the humans in it. I dint think of the possibility that they could be only placeholder, but I thought that they could have been part of a small playable scenario.

My comment, to explain it further, is that I think those screenies are from a complete playable DF, and for that, these being the first screenshots, its not bad at all.

I would love it if they can get the quality they had in those first human shots, but i wont complain if they cant, just as long as the gameplay is still top&#33; ;)

[Darkmatter]

Discussing graphics is one thing.
Discussing gameplay is another. Discussing the two combined and asking ourselves how they would add up, and if they would work without chopping up the server and our computers is another.

Quote Soy
"more proof that they are nowhere near any sort of public beta "

If they don&#39;t have the technology or plans to drasticly change the graphics presented to us in the recent screeshots - and the improvement is going to be some sort of eye candy layer ontop of the current graphics it is still better than nothing. But if a promised "graphical touchup" is the only thing they have planned, they might as well start the public beta soon afterall Soy. If all features are to be implemented and tested, who cares if they are tested and fixed in a "non Eye candy enviroment". First of all the testers are there to test the game, not to enjoy a fully finished product with all the eye candy and special feelings that would involve. The problem is that minority of the gaming community that still can&#39;t take a beta-testing phase for what it is originally intended to be. Even game developers and producers understand that the beta phase is not what it were before, and now it&#39;s used to promote and to create hypes. Games enter this phase at different stages, some not finished at all and others with all features implemented. In some cases players aren&#39;t even asked to submit errors found while playing. "It&#39;s like a free ride, and if you get sick while riding it - you don&#39;t want to be riding it again."

If Darkfall Onlines current graphics keeps away people that think that graphics MAKES the game; that would mean that it would mainly attract people that are left out from that minority - those that are actually taking an interesting in helping the game on its feet. Those that don&#39;t mind an unfinished game.

Gowel, It is fine by me that you think this graphic is good enough. But wouldn&#39;t it be great to have a game that had better graphics than what&#39;s displayed there? It is going to happen sooner or later - offline games are moving towards a new graphical peak with the upcoming Half life 2 and Doom 3 to name some games. I haven&#39;t played those, no, but i&#39;ve watched lots of ingame video-fotage and many screenshots and I actually belive that they can pull it off without making my system explode. Some new games will require us to update our systems to enjoy them fully - that&#39;s a sign of progress imo, and if done successfully, it will give us a new graphical standard to compare games to. Now, the next to follow in those trails are the online games genre that ofcourse has to make everything work while staying online with several thousands of players playing in it. They are working on better ways to do things here as well, but the question is when - when should we be allowed to expect graphical improvements AND functionality ? Nowadays it seems that it has to be only one of the two. Either an Eye candied lag-world with nothing to do, or a game filled with features - except it makes your eyes sore and makes you think of games you&#39;ve played years ago. There is another reason for this as well, they want their games to be fully enjoyed by people both on upper AND lower-end connections. And that&#39;s understandable, because if you are discluding the lower-ends, it would mean discluding a whole chunk of the potential users-cake. Meaning they would develope themselves into a lower income, and a lesser chanse of making a profit. Games gives players to adjust their graphical settings, but then their game won&#39;t be enjoyed by these people as the game was originally intended - but what do they care, the gaming industry is making money - and the players where lucky and relieved that their system had a chanse of running the game- even though they had to make do with the crappiest graphics possible on the game : they are still in the online world. meeting people. doing stuff. and to some extent enjoying the game. But how is this problem ever going to be solved? I guess by some brilliant new sci-fi techonology. Because it&#39;s going to take ages before the 24 and 56/kb modems leave the market, and the gaming community is still hungry for new and more advanced games. The problem is that sooner or later i fear that the graphical advances will cost more power to run than the lower-end modems can handle. Still broadband is spreading all over the world, and hopefully before forever the majority of the gaming community will have connections that could handle their client on a major gaming server, or sadly people would be forced to leave out on some games because the connection or system-reqs where to high..

If Darkfall Online makes the magical trick of hitting between these two posts, (graphical || ----------- || gameplay) it will be for the best - giving people graphics they can live with, that doesn&#39;t look outdated at first glimse and a world packed with things to do and friends to hang out with without lagging behind.

Razorwax still has the option to release their game when they feel it&#39;s ready and they should, but you&#39;ve got to remember that as time passes people will adjust to a certain graphical level - and devs wanting to develope a game over a span of several years will have their work cut out for themselves upgrading the graphical engines as the process moves along.

Conclusion: :rolleyes:
The Darkfall devs are promising to stay true to their promises of an eventfull and feature-filled gaming world. They have however, not, promised us an "out-of-this-world" graphical experience. Lets praise Darkfall Online for what it is, and take any graphical improvements that may or may not occour, as a bonus.

[Airius Droc]

I&#39;ve learned to read news about DF using bold letters. :)

From IGN:
A lot of the eye candy elements are not yet represented in this batch of scenes, but the technology to is being worked in, and the results will be shown in the near future.

[Gowel]

Gowel, It is fine by me that you think this graphic is good enough. But wouldn&#39;t it be great to have a game that had better graphics than what&#39;s displayed there?
Not if it means sacrificing gameplay.

[tphatt]

Look I think just like the Cry babies that got all upset because some of us want a TPV U guys r jumping the gun in the graphics issue.
the game is still in closed beta which means its more in the alpha stage then beta and U cant really tell what they will look like until U play the game on ur OWN compy through ur OWN vid card so take a breath and wait before U start cryin like a bunch of spoiled children&#33; :ph34r: ...That being said I think that the graphics arent half bad ...looking at them through my Gainward 750 XP and Im sure that they will only get better...and if nothing els they wont get any wores so look at ur cup as half full instead of half empty... :P

[soy]

Originally posted by Gowel+Oct 14 2003, 12:59 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Gowel @ Oct 14 2003, 12:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--soy@Oct 13 2003, 07:39 PM
:blink:

more proof that they are nowhere near any sort of public beta&nbsp; <_<
Sort of a silly assumption. I&#39;d like to know what it is that you see, or don&#39;t see, in those screenshots to lead you to that sort of conclusion. [/b][/quote]
Where&#39;s the rest of the game? Why do we keep getting shots of humans running around random little towns?

And more importantly where&#39;s the interface? Combat? Anything?

Graphics for little huts and default player models seem fine, but uh.. I thought I remembered reading about tons of other stuff in the FAQ, or maybe I really was just hallucinating..

[Dozier]

personally, i dont give a rat&#39;s ass about graphics, i have had more fun playing MUDS than i ever had playing upscale graphics games like morrowind or unreal 2, and i think its a good thing the graphics aren&#39;t eqish, eq and alot of other companies are setting their standards too high, the casual gamer isnt going to spend gobs of money building a system to play an online game and the devs are doing a good job to allow for low end systems to be able to compete, other than just making sense it is also a hook to get more people to play the game and possibly convert to the hardcore gamer scenario and spend gobs of money getting high fps(although if they&#39;re smart they wont need to spend alot) and sticking around in the game giving razorwax more money allowing for more xpansions, better support, and other games down the road,

edit, and just for you guys complaining about these shots not being everything you hoped they&#39;d be, probally 85% of the code that goes into a game isnt related to graphics, its networking, physics, everything, that all has to be done before the devs can sit down and draw sparkely effects for you, get over it

[Whistler]

Pics looked fine to me.
Grass and tree edges could be a bit smoother, I&#39;m sure the finished product would have that worked out though.
The house and sky look awesome, great detail there. From what I&#39;ve seen, the game looks like it has a real nice atmosphere to it.
[quote][b]Although they came as a glad surprise, the pics didn&#39;t satisfy my hunger. I know I

[Gowel]

Well, I disagree with the whole complaining about the graphics thing. I think overall they look good and I would not mind if they didn&#39;t get any better. The only complaint that I do have, is one of functionality. I mentioned this back in March/April when we first saw the buildings, but I do worry about it being changed.

Why can&#39;t we see through the windows? What is the point of even having a window, if you can&#39;t see through it? It seems as though it would be a little difficult and frustrating, defending a structure if you can&#39;t look out the windows. I realize that they could change the windows to make them clear, but it seems like making them clear in the first place, would have been less work for them, as once the frame was up they wouldn&#39;t have had to go back and fill in the glass area with that blueish looking color. I also realize that there is a chance that the current windows may be fully functional and we could possibly open and shut them. However, even if that&#39;s the case, it still doesn&#39;t make sense that they wouldn&#39;t be see-through when shut.

Anyway, whatever the reason for it, I hope that the current windows are just placeholders and that the final versions do end up clear, or atleast see-through, because it just doesn&#39;t make any sense functionality wise.

[Dracul Fey]

The only thing these screenshots prove is, like soy said, they are FAR from a playable beta build. They obviously created that tiny little fake town just to stage those 4 screenshots. It sorta reminds me of the early shadowbane screenshots, where you could tell they were staged easily. My personal favorite was the one with the dead guy who had his arm torn off.

That said, I am still keeping the hope alive that they will somehow create an awesome game (they are the last hope), I just don&#39;t expect a playable beta until spring 2004 at the very earliest. :(

[Airius Droc]

Originally posted by Dracul Fey@Oct 15 2003, 12:31 AM
The only thing these screenshots prove is, like soy said, they are FAR from a playable beta build. They obviously created that tiny little fake town just to stage those 4 screenshots.
I would find that difficult to believe considering this quote from Claus in a recent Gamebanshee Interview (http://www.gamebanshee.com/interviews/darkfall2-1.php):


Darkfall is entering closed beta testing in September this year. The closed beta is fully playable, with most core features implemented. We will be adding features and content during closed beta, while we gear up for the next beta stages.

We now know that Closed Beta did start on September 2nd. However we won&#39;t know how "playable" a playable beta is until we&#39;re actually in. ;)

[Bartacus]

As others said also, in my oppinion Gameplay is much more important as grapichs are. Ofcourse it&#39;s nice to see everything very detailed, with all kind of special effects. But if the gameplay sucks I won&#39;t play the game. For myself is the best example between Neverwinter Nights and Arcanum.
Neverwinter Nights had much better grapichs, but the game couldn&#39;t get my full attention as Arcanum got. Arcanum hasn&#39;t the best grapichs, but it has a great story and Gameplay I thinks. The only bad about Acrcanum are the Steamworks ;)
So I don&#39;t mind if the grapichs aren&#39;t that great, I do mind if the gameplay isn&#39;t that great. And if this is the grapichal quality of Darkfall it would be fine by me.

Where I complain about in Darkfall at the moment are other things. I would like to see more lore about the races, specially Dwarf. And I would like to see more visual things about the other races and towns.

[Bekka]

Those screenshots look fine to me, even on my crappy work computer.

I love breathtaking graphics when I read game previews and when I play games without pvp, or single player games - but in all my past experience of playing in full pvp worlds, the first thing I did after having a look at the beautiful sunset was to crank down the gfx to improve performance. If I could play DF with gfx like those shown in the screenshots, without having to lower res to increase framerate, and if DF delivers most of what it promises gameplay-wise, I&#39;ll be more than happy.

Now, OT from the graphics:

What really attracts me to the game is that it&#39;s going to be 1) full pvp, everywhere, that 2) we&#39;ll have to aim to hit each other with arrows and spells, that 3) Claus said that three newbies who know what they are doing can kill a strong character played by someone who doesn&#39;t, and that 4) it will entail sieges, conquest, and empire building.

1) and 2) were the reasons why Darktide was such a great server to play on before the 3rd party progs like gear ruined it; my best gaming memories are from early DT in AC1. If Darkfall delivers the same, especially (2), it will be great. After AC1, the other games I played (DAoC, AC2, SWG) didn&#39;t require any (or much) aiming and maneuvering and I don&#39;t much like that type of pvp; it&#39;s too character-skill and template and equipment dependent. (3) is something that was missing on Darktide, and when people started producing uberhigh level characters with macro chains it got quickly an uphill struggle for more casual players. (4) was Shadowbane&#39;s promise but as far as I understand from those who played it for any length of time it didn&#39;t really deliver because of all the bugs. I can&#39;t comment because I tried it and hated it (click to move? wtf) and stopped playing almost immediately. City building and conquest is something I&#39;ve always wanted to be part of in an online rp game, so that&#39;s another reason why I keep my eyes peeled for DF.

Back to graphics topic... Said all this, if DF delivers points 1 to 4 above, and I can play with graphics like those shown on the screenshots without having to turn down the resolution to minimum, I will be very happy.

[omnigol]

why is that guy wearing jeans

[Blade]

Originally posted by tphatt@Oct 14 2003, 07:29 PM
Look I think just like the Cry babies that got all upset because some of us want a TPV U guys r jumping the gun in the graphics issue.
the game is still in closed beta which means its more in the alpha stage then beta and U cant really tell what they will look like until U play the game on ur OWN compy through ur OWN vid card so take a breath and wait before U start cryin like a bunch of spoiled children&#33; :ph34r: ...That being said I think that the graphics arent half bad ...looking at them through my Gainward 750 XP and Im sure that they will only get better...and if nothing els they wont get any wores so look at ur cup as half full instead of half empty... :P
Look tphatt and the other guy who made a comment on whiners, why dont ya read the posts before saying someone is complaining or *whining* Both Niadr and my own posts where as a critizism but with moderation, cause both of us want more the gameplay to be great than the grafix, but we dont go saying "ooohhhhhh those are GREAT screenshots and sooo beautifull&#33;" just to maybe kiss ass our way into beta&#33; compared with earlier shots we have seen, those screens are of a lesser quality, ok?

We give our honest oppinion, and if our oppinion is that the Grafix in those screens arent that great, who are you to say we are whiners?

So please, stop those "stop whinig and get over it" threads cause they are plain stupid. :angry:

[Airius Droc]

Originally posted by Blade@Oct 15 2003, 10:26 AM
We give our honest oppinion, and if our oppinion is that the Grafix in those screens arent that great, who are you to say we are whiners?
There&#39;s nothing wrong with giving an honest opinion, don&#39;t sweat it. :)

[Gowel]

Look tphatt and the other guy who made a comment on whiners, why dont ya read the posts before saying someone is complaining or *whining* Both Niadr and my own posts where as a critizism but with moderation, cause both of us want more the gameplay to be great than the grafix, but we dont go saying "ooohhhhhh those are GREAT screenshots and sooo beautifull&#33;" just to maybe kiss ass our way into beta&#33; compared with earlier shots we have seen, those screens are of a lesser quality, ok?

Well, this is obviously directed at me, but I never said that anyone was "whining" as you put it. You probably should direct your rage elsewhere, because you&#39;re really getting worked up over something that didn&#39;t happen.

As for my post, it wasn&#39;t directed at just people in this thread, but the community overall. If I wanted to address specific people in this thread, I would have named them in my post. In IRC lately, many people have voiced their dislike for the graphics in those 4 screenshots and my post was a blanket statement about people complaining both IN this thread AND in IRC. So, I guess what I mean to say is, don&#39;t take offense so easily.

[Blade]

No Gowel, you arent meant by the other guy...:) Let me check back on who so ya dont think im saying this about you. Your posts are good and respectfull of others oppinions, so no problem with you... :)

It was Doziers post, but mostly tphatt

[Darkmatter]

Well.. I posted to utter my opinion on Darkfall Online AND the general discussion on graphics and playability - not because anyone forced me to, I just felt like it was involving some of the issues discussed around the newest screenshots of the current build. If I wanted to make it short, i could, but hey, I felt like writing at the time :lol:

Not everyone can have similar opinions, and by all means I am not writing anything to make a bad mood here. If people love the current graphics, then it is all peachy for them isnt it ? hehe

[Zerocool749]

Originally posted by Gowel@Oct 13 2003, 06:58 PM

Well, personally, I think the graphics look good, but what you say is true. However, I don&#39;t think they are really going for eye candy as much as some of the other games in development. The trend for MMORPGs lately, seems to be for them to work on graphics first and content & gameplay later. The Darkfall guys are doing it a bit different. They&#39;re building their game with playability in mind. As we&#39;ve heard recently from Claus, level of detail is considered when anything graphically is added to the game. They want the game to be playable with as many people as they can get on the screen, so that we can have all these large scale city sieges and clan wars that alot of us are looking forward to. They are pretty much giving us the best graphics they can, without sacrificing gameplay. I don&#39;t know about everyone else, but I&#39;m very grateful for it and I think it&#39;s a very smart move.
Your totally right, The graphics arent great, but in my quote you see thats not why im gonna play the game. I am going to play the game on the exact reasons you listed, i was just commenting on how the Graphics arent as good as all the previous posters make it seem

[Zerocool749]

Darkfall promises alot of content and gameplay.... can they produce it and come through with there promises? only time will tell

[Grannus]

I was able to put up with the bad graphics on SB because of the promised content and story. They delivered bad graphics with no content or story and the most buggy game outside of beta I&#39;ve ever seen. I will put up with adequete graphics ONLY if there is some redeeming gameplay involved. If you want graphics, dig up a Myst somewhere.

[Khumash-Gor]

i liked the pics.... but there is always room for imrovment ;&#39;)

[Wacko]

decent... doing better than some newer games, but I&#39;m not in it for the graphics... B)

[Andonis]

Not as fancy or impressive as some of their other pics but not bad but the game is in beta so graphics still have plenty of time for improvement but im more worried about gameplay myself we need more game info and less eye candy :)