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Arkh
06-06-2008, 20:27
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/06/nyregion/06rape.html?_r=2&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

The time crept by so slowly and painfully that the 23-year-old Columbia University journalism student had decided it was time to end her life.

Over many torturous hours, she had been repeatedly raped, sodomized and forced to perform oral sex, a prosecutor told a jury on Thursday. The accused, Robert A. Williams, 31, had doused the woman’s face and body with boiling water and bleach, forced her to swallow handfuls of pills and to chase them with beer, sealed her mouth with glue, and bound her wrists and legs with shoelaces, cords and duct tape, said the prosecutor, Ann P. Prunty. And now, Ms. Prunty said, he was asking the woman to gouge out her own eyes with a pair of scissors.

And so the woman, sitting on the floor of her studio apartment in Hamilton Heights and holding a pair of scissors between her knees — the blade pointing toward her face — tried to stop the suffering. She lowered her face to the blade, but turned her head at the last moment, trying to stab herself in the neck instead of her eyes.

The scissors slipped from her grasp, the suicide attempt failed, and the woman suffered several more hours of torture, Ms. Prunty said.

The woman survived the nearly 19-hour ordeal, which ended, Ms. Prunty said, when she used a fire started by Mr. Williams to burn the cords that secured her wrists to a futon.

Mr. Williams went on trial Thursday in State Supreme Court in Manhattan, where he faces 71 criminal counts, including attempted murder, rape, arson and assault. If convicted, he could spend the rest of his life in prison.

Mr. Williams, who was homeless at the time of his arrest about a week later at the scene of a burglary in Queens, has a lengthy police record dating to his childhood, the authorities have said.

He was charged in a murder as a juvenile, though the outcome of that case is sealed, a law enforcement official said, and he spent eight years in prison for an attempted-murder conviction in 1996.

The prosecution began presenting its case with Ms. Prunty’s vivid, step-by-step account of the attack, which she said began about 10 p.m. on April 13, 2007, and lasted until 4 p.m. the following afternoon. Mr. Williams’s lawyer, Arnold J. Levine, did not make an opening statement. Outside the courtroom, Mr. Levine declined to talk about his strategy. In hearings before the trial, he seemed to indicate that he would challenge witnesses’ identification of his client.

The victim and several witnesses in the six-story apartment building where the woman lived picked out Mr. Williams from lineups, Ms. Prunty said. She said that DNA evidence also linked him to the crime.

Justice Carol Berkman, who is presiding over the trial, found in October that Mr. Williams was mentally fit for trial. After that decision, Mr. Levine said he was considering a mental illness defense.

As Ms. Prunty delivered her opening statement, Mr. Williams sat slouched in his chair, with his head tilted downward.

On the night of the attack, the victim, a month from graduating with a master’s degree, was at Columbia, putting the final touches on her résumé for a job fair the next day, Ms. Prunty said. When she arrived at her apartment building, she got on the elevator and found Mr. Williams inside, Ms. Prunty said. She rode with him to her floor, and could hear him follow her as she navigated the long L-shaped hallway to her apartment.

As the woman entered her apartment, Ms. Prunty said, Mr. Williams asked her if she knew where a Mrs. Evans lived. The woman stopped to answer.

“Her kind moment of hesitation would cost her,” Ms. Prunty said.

Mr. Williams forced his way into the apartment, Ms. Prunty said, put the woman in a chokehold, and slapped her cellphone from her hand. Mr. Williams slammed the door behind him, and “her Friday the 13th nightmare began,” Ms. Prunty said.

Mr. Williams turned a clock by the woman’s bed to the wall and made her take off her watch so she would not know what time it was, Ms. Prunty said. He raped her repeatedly and cut her hair because “he wanted to see her face, her fear and humiliation.”

He made her sit in her bathtub, and that was the first time he told her to gouge her eyes, Ms. Prunty said. He punished her for refusing by boiling water in a kettle and throwing it on her, the prosecutor said. The water jolted her so much that she broke through the bonds on her wrist, Ms. Prunty said, as the skin on her chest, torso and thighs blistered. (On hearing this detail, one of the jurors shook his head and covered his mouth.)

“Just kill me! Just kill me!” the woman pleaded, Ms. Prunty said.

Later, after her failed attempt to kill herself with the scissors, Mr. Williams threw a heavy object at the back of her head, cracking her skull, Ms. Prunty said.

Mr. Williams was intent on damaging her vision because, Ms. Prunty said, “a blind witness could never identify her attacker.”

Mr. Williams eventually slit the woman’s eyelids and face with a butcher knife, Ms. Prunty said, but she did not lose her vision. He fastened her legs and arms to a futon, and she lost consciousness.

When she awoke, she again pleaded for him to kill her, but heard no response. He was gone.

Mr. Williams “only stopped when he could no longer feel the scourge of control over another human being,” Ms. Prunty said.

The woman smelled smoke, Ms. Prunty said, so she wriggled her legs free and pulled the futon away from the wall. She used the fire to free her arms, Ms. Prunty said, and then ran through the smoke to her door. It took her several attempts to open it because her hands were limp and numb, Ms. Prunty said.

The woman ran through her hallway seeking help, Ms. Prunty said, “an image of the walking, living dead.”

shnedit
06-06-2008, 20:30
The accused, Robert A. Williams, 31, had doused the woman’s face and body with boiling water and bleach, forced her to swallow handfuls of pills and to chase them with beer, sealed her mouth with glue, and bound her wrists and legs with shoelaces, cords and duct tape, said the prosecutor, Ann P. Prunty. And now, Ms. Prunty said, he was asking the woman to gouge out her own eyes with a pair of scissors.



Im sorry. That is the sickest fucking shit ive ever heard. Its really made me despressed irl. What the fuck.

Mulambo
06-06-2008, 20:31
wow. fucked up.

alfaroverall
06-06-2008, 20:32
God damn. Normally I'm desensitized to this kind of stuff, but I'm practically speechless. But I do have two questions:
Did this man wait through any refractory periods at all?
How many orgasms did this man have in 19 hours?

The painful irony is that this is "less" illegal (i.e. warranting a lesser punishment) than killing someone who is attempting to rob your house without a weapon (at least in some states).

Lorthral
06-06-2008, 20:33
That's fucked up.

WhiteGuy
06-06-2008, 20:34
Holy shit

Lethn
06-06-2008, 20:34
"Mr. Williams was mentally fit for trial. After that decision, Mr. Levine said he was considering a mental illness defense."

Son of a bitch I don't know how anyone could defend a scumbag like that no matter how much money they'd get paid, if he's not found guilty then I'm slitting my wrists and converting to Buddhism.

LadyKaliska
06-06-2008, 20:36
Im sorry. That is the sickest fucking shit ive ever heard. Its really made me despressed irl. What the fuck.

Couldn't have put it better myself. People like that guy should just be put to death under a firing squad, no questions asked. Or something. People like that shouldn't even have the right to sit in jail the rest of their life... I don't want my tax money even feeding that asshole.

Gloomrender
06-06-2008, 20:38
Join the "lost faith in humanity club", everyone. :(

Capricious
06-06-2008, 20:39
Heres for hoping someone enters the courtroom with a loaded firearm and takes care of business.

Gloomrender
06-06-2008, 20:39
Heres for hoping someone enters the courtroom with a loaded firearm and takes care of business.

That'd be him getting off easy.

Zokten
06-06-2008, 20:39
wow uber fucked up shit....this is why I think we need a special prison where people are tortured medieval and Chinese style, and throw this guy in there.

Red Morgan
06-06-2008, 20:40
Rape and torture are two things I'll never understand. I just don't get what motivates someone to get off on that kind of brutality.

Zokten
06-06-2008, 20:41
"Mr. Williams was mentally fit for trial. After that decision, Mr. Levine said he was considering a mental illness defense."

Son of a bitch I don't know how anyone could defend a scumbag like that no matter how much money they'd get paid, if he's not found guilty then I'm slitting my wrists and converting to Buddhism.

Problem is someone has to do it.


Rape and torture are two things I'll never understand. I just don't get what motivates someone to get off on that kind of brutality.

Hence why these people seem to be a minority

Kekshorts
06-06-2008, 20:41
why did i read the whole thing?!?!?

Capricious
06-06-2008, 20:41
That'd be him getting off easy.

Ok, shot in the thigh and left to bleed?

Gloomrender
06-06-2008, 20:42
"Too mean?"

Llyr
06-06-2008, 20:42
God damn. Normally I'm desensitized to this kind of stuff, but I'm practically speechless. But I do have two questions:
Did this man wait through any refractory periods at all?
How many orgasms did this man have in 19 hours?

The painful irony is that this is "less" illegal (i.e. warranting a lesser punishment) than killing someone who is attempting to rob your house without a weapon (at least in some states).

Do people have to bring gun ownership into everything?

And yeah that was fucking horrible. I'm amazed by how logically she acted to free herself at the end though, after going through all that. Prime example of the human nature to survive. You can't defend something like that with mental haelth problems, it's just downright depravity.

Zokten
06-06-2008, 20:43
Ok, shot in the thigh and left to bleed?

Still to easy

Bnblue
06-06-2008, 20:43
Man's level of depravity and lack of any moral fiber doesn't faze me anymore.

The rofl thing about this is he'll probably just end up in jail with a relatively easy life, I don't care what some democratic govermants think about capital punishment for people like this it's nessercary evil I'd also enjoy stooping to their level and torturing the shit out of him, but he'd probably get a kick out of it.

Reminds of something I read/heard in yesterdays news, That Austrian (I think)guy Fritz, the sick bastard who had children with his daughter and had them in the celler for years, well it's been reported that he's had over a hundred love letters from woman professing their love, you just can't make up stuff like that if you tried. human beings can be weird muthafookers.

And I bet you, this guy will have his admirers too, rofl what a wonderful world.

Gloomrender
06-06-2008, 20:43
Ok, shot in the thigh and left to bleed?

That's only like 5 minutes of pain. He could be beaten and raped in prison for 50 years.

shnedit
06-06-2008, 20:43
Thinking about it, if i was related to her , i think his could spark me to do what was detailed in uhahim's thread.

Ultimo
06-06-2008, 20:46
This isn't as bad as the father that locked up his daughter for three decades while raping her and producing her children, however its close. People are fucked up.

sylverCode
06-06-2008, 20:47
Wow, this may be worse than the case with the Austrian guy that raped his daughter and locked her up for 18 years with the newborn children.


This isn't as bad as the father that locked up his daughter for three decades while raping her and producing her children, however its close. People are fucked up.
Ouch, you were faster. :\

Ragnika
06-06-2008, 20:47
Do people have to bring gun ownership into everything?

And yeah that was fucking horrible. I'm amazed by how logically she acted to free herself at the end though, after going through all that. Prime example of the human nature to survive. You can't defend something like that with mental haelth problems, it's just downright depravity.

What else would have saved this nice woman from this type of ordeal? I think it drives the point home that being prepared is the best thing you can do for yourself. I'm not trying to incite an entire gun debating thread, but I think it serves to at least make the point.

Horrible, just absolutely horrible.

surGeonFFS
06-06-2008, 20:47
Meh, needs pictures.

Zokten
06-06-2008, 20:47
This isn't as bad as the father that locked up his daughter for three decades while raping her and producing her children, however its close. People are fucked up.

I find this far worse, based on the torture.

Mulambo
06-06-2008, 20:47
The rofl thing about this is he'll probably just end up in jail with a relatively easy life

I doubt the other inmates will make his stay there very 'easy.'

Mulambo
06-06-2008, 20:48
I find this far worse, based on the torture.

dude, that other girl was tortured for like 20 years.

Ragnika
06-06-2008, 20:48
I doubt the other inmates will make his stay there very 'easy.'

We can sure hope so.

Zokten
06-06-2008, 20:49
I doubt the other inmates will make his stay there very 'easy.'

He will, cause they will separate from the general population like they do with child rapists and shit.


dude, that other girl was tortured for like 20 years.

I don't remember hearing anything about torture just rape.

Rokolith
06-06-2008, 20:49
Back in the olden days guys like this got lynched. and rightly so.

Ultimo
06-06-2008, 20:50
I find this far worse, based on the torture.

Being locked in a basement for decades while being raped isn't torture?

Bnblue
06-06-2008, 20:51
I doubt the other inmates will make his stay there very 'easy.'

Don't get your hopes up, if his jail is like anything here in the UK to go by then he's no worries there's plenty of sick bastards in our jails having it easy, the only hope for this case is that it gets plenty of media exposure as that will help facilitate in his demise.

Zokten
06-06-2008, 20:51
Being locked in a basement for decades while being raped isn't torture?

Yes, but not as harsh on the torture scale as this.

alfaroverall
06-06-2008, 20:52
Do people have to bring gun ownership into everything?
Legally it matters. If he's armed then it's a helluva lot easier to argue that he was a threat to your personal safety rather than merely that of your property. Murder over a guy stealing your TV is actually highly illegal in many states.

Reikson
06-06-2008, 20:52
Yes, but not as harsh on the torture scale as this.

if you had to choose between one of the two which would you choose?
19 hours or 19 years?

Mulambo
06-06-2008, 20:53
Yes, but not as harsh on the torture scale as this.

I think I'd rather have the 19 hour hugely disgusting torture than the decades of basement rape.

Llyr
06-06-2008, 20:54
Legally it matters. If he's armed then it's a helluva lot easier to argue that he was a threat to your personal safety rather than merely that of your property. Murder over a guy stealing your TV is actually highly illegal in many states.

Perhaps. I'd rather not a gun debate in this thread though, there's already one for that. I just thought you were trying to spark the same thing in here, so rather immaturely called it out :p

shnedit
06-06-2008, 20:59
I think I'd rather have the 19 hour hugely disgusting torture than the decades of basement rape.

The thing is, although its sick, its all she was used to. That was life for her, that basement. I know its sick but she would have got used to it.

The 23 year old prob had a totaly normal life, until she was subjected to that nightmare.

Llyr
06-06-2008, 21:03
Tbh while it's all good and well debating whether 19 years of 'mild' torture would be worse than 19 hours of 'heavy' torture, I'm not sure anyone on here could even begin to empathise...

Aragoni
06-06-2008, 21:03
If it exists it has porn attached to it.

shnedit
06-06-2008, 21:04
If it exists it has porn attached to it.

Link, im all horny after this thread.

Steelbadger
06-06-2008, 21:05
Mr. Williams went on trial Thursday in State Supreme Court in Manhattan, where he faces 71 criminal counts, including attempted murder, rape, arson and assault. If convicted, he could spend the rest of his life in prison.

Could. COULD? COULD?!?

That man deserves to have his life artificially lengthened so that he can serve consecutive true life sentences.

SSguy
06-06-2008, 21:06
That'd be him getting off easy.

Because he hasn't gotten out of jail before right? Nice rap sheet.

Home, T.V., sports, gym, food......yeah hes not getting off easy right?

This post has been approved by KingHussien

Aragoni
06-06-2008, 21:07
Could. COULD? COULD?!?

That man deserves to have his life artificially lengthened so that he can serve consecutive true life sentences.

Why? He only showed the girl her place in Society.

Masumatek
06-06-2008, 21:09
Murder over a guy stealing your TV is actually highly illegal in many states.

And it should be. What makes people think it's ok to kill someone for stealing meaningless material items I will never understand.

Llyr
06-06-2008, 21:09
Why? He only showed the girl her place in Society.

Ba-dum-tiiscchh. You're so daring and brave. E-marry me!

Death's Chill
06-06-2008, 21:10
God damn. Normally I'm desensitized to this kind of stuff, but I'm practically speechless. But I do have two questions:
Did this man wait through any refractory periods at all?
How many orgasms did this man have in 19 hours?

The painful irony is that this is "less" illegal (i.e. warranting a lesser punishment) than killing someone who is attempting to rob your house without a weapon (at least in some states).

Which goes beyond sick. He pour fucking boiling water on her and slit her eyelids, that's just so fucked up. It surprises me to what lengths some human beings will go to in order to feel dominant. Seriously, anyone who thinks we're "evolved" needs to get their heads examined. We are barely out of the fucking water.

I really do wonder what would need to happen in order to push someone to do that. While I definitely do blame him for his actions, I'm sure a fair part of the blame resides on his parents, how we was raised. Who knows. It still happened, and I truly do hope she can sue the fucker for everything he has.

paade
06-06-2008, 21:10
reading these type of cases, i feel that the law should acknowledge revenge/getting back as part of the punishment, eye for an eye, if you will. This guy should be sentenced to be raped/tortured by some other guy who shares his view of "fun passtime".

Bnblue
06-06-2008, 21:11
The thing is, although its sick, its all she was used to. That was life for her, that basement. I know its sick but she would have got used to it.

The 23 year old prob had a totaly normal life, until she was subjected to that nightmare.

I think the mental and physical torture of over that length of time would be far worse, she was abducted as a young adult, if she was younger and didn't know anything else than maybe but she was fully aware of what was happening and however hard she tried to put it to the back of her head she won't be able to.

Not to mention the children she has bore and how you could even contemplate trying to sort this problem out.

I read recently that they think he'll(fritz) die before he can get tried, the doctors seem to think it'll be years before they can bring back some sense of normality to this poor family if ever.

With regards to the OP yes it was horrific and relatively long but you can't compare, I think I'd rather be dead than have to think about that shit all the time.

Justice needs to be swift, an eye for an eye as long as their sure they got their man, a death sentence is more than fair for this guy.

Gloomrender
06-06-2008, 21:12
Because he hasn't gotten out of jail before right? Nice rap sheet.

People don't typically ''get out'' when their sentence is life without parole...


Home, T.V., sports, gym, food......yeah hes not getting off easy right?

That's all in general pop. General pop will make this guy's life a living hell. So he will probably get stuck in solitary for his own protection, which will totally fuck his mind up...just like he deserves.

Damwa
06-06-2008, 21:13
I wonder what the intention with this thread is?
Human beings are capable of some pretty nasty shit; QED - again...
Someone once said: Man is a Wolf on Man. He may not have been absolutely correct, but he wasn't off by miles.



Why? He only showed the girl her place in Society.

Oh, you are so funny my sides almost split.

Death's Chill
06-06-2008, 21:13
Couldn't have put it better myself. People like that guy should just be put to death under a firing squad, no questions asked. Or something. People like that shouldn't even have the right to sit in jail the rest of their life... I don't want my tax money even feeding that asshole.

No. Letting blind rage control your thoughts isn't right. Yes he is a sick, sick person. However, if the government has the power to execute people, things go downhill fast. I just don't trust the government enough for that. Besides, prison shouldn't be about revenge but incarceration, I.E. preventing him from doing it again, and of course rehabilitation, turning him into a decent member of society.

Not biblical revenge. ;)

Jangang
06-06-2008, 21:14
That is seriously fucked up! If that poor women was someone I knew that bastard would be dead already.

As to the previous posters assertion that prison is for rehabilitation, people like that are not wanted in our society, rehabilitated or not. Fuck that guy, he needs to die, and it needs to be painful. At the minimum his death should be prolonged for say 19 hours.

Razel
06-06-2008, 21:14
if it was my daughter he wouldn't be still breathing. Nevertheless this is exactly what happens when you disarm citizens. Whether the lady owned a weapon or not is irrelevant in that if everyone could own a gun or weapon easily a demented mf like this would think twice first...

Gloomrender
06-06-2008, 21:14
Afraid rehab doesn't work on people like this. Unless you mean a lobotomy.

Damwa
06-06-2008, 21:18
Which goes beyond sick. He pour fucking boiling water on her and slit her eyelids, that's just so fucked up. It surprises me to what lengths some human beings will go to in order to feel dominant. Seriously, anyone who thinks we're "evolved" needs to get their heads examined. We are barely out of the fucking water.

I really do wonder what would need to happen in order to push someone to do that. While I definitely do blame him for his actions, I'm sure a fair part of the blame resides on his parents, how we was raised. Who knows. It still happened, and I truly do hope she can sue the fucker for everything he has.

Well, I would actually say that this is a good indication of civilization. Animals are prone to "getting to the point" without to much crap, when it comes to hostility and dominance. This degree of indulgence in personal psychosis, fantasy and self-serving gratuitous humiliation and general violence could really only originate in a civilized mind: the more complex the civilization, the worse its diseases - In a manner of speaking.

viktor-77
06-06-2008, 21:18
rofl 19 hours. XD Lololololol!!!!!111!!1!!!oNe!!11!!!0n3!! 1!

akrippler
06-06-2008, 21:18
Ive said it before, in my own perfect little world the bayliff would just shoot em on the spot.

Llyr
06-06-2008, 21:18
It still happened, and I truly do hope she can sue the fucker for everything he has.

Original story made it sound like he didn't have much to claim at all unfortunately for her. I'm thinking she'll get some pretty hefty reparations though, as she deserves.

korosec
06-06-2008, 21:18
rofl 19 hours. XD Lololololol!!!!!111!!1!!!oNe!!11!!!0n3!! 1!

the man took his time . respect .

Zokten
06-06-2008, 21:21
It still happened, and I truly do hope she can sue the fucker for everything he has.

Yea, since it said the guy is homeless....

LadyKaliska
06-06-2008, 21:22
No. Letting blind rage control your thoughts isn't right. Yes he is a sick, sick person. However, if the government has the power to execute people, things go downhill fast. I just don't trust the government enough for that. Besides, prison shouldn't be about revenge but incarceration, I.E. preventing him from doing it again, and of course rehabilitation, turning him into a decent member of society.

Not biblical revenge. ;)

I understand your point and it's valid. However my thoughts were not on revenge, it was... that would be the only sure fire way he wouldn't walk the streets again... but we're all going to be paying for his life long vacation in prison. I'm already paying out the @ss from my check for foodstamps and whatnot so lazy people can buy their beer and cigarettes... I don't want to pay for anything for that asshole.

Damwa
06-06-2008, 21:22
if it was my daughter he wouldn't be still breathing. Nevertheless this is exactly what happens when you disarm citizens.

And of course, this is all about gun control...
Yeah, 'cause in countries with extensive gun control, unrestrained torture and sadistic violation of others are everyday occurrences. Could we save the crusade for a different occasion, perchance?

Arkis
06-06-2008, 21:22
did it take place in Guantanamo ?

Death's Chill
06-06-2008, 21:25
And it should be. What makes people think it's ok to kill someone for stealing meaningless material items I will never understand.

No, it shouldn't be. It's my home, my things, my property, so if you try to harm me or steal from me, I will not stop and consider your well-being. It's just that simple.


Legally it matters. If he's armed then it's a helluva lot easier to argue that he was a threat to your personal safety rather than merely that of your property. Murder over a guy stealing your TV is actually highly illegal in many states.

Well it's still self-defense. I don't understand arguments like this. If someone is trying to take something that YOU own, that is YOUR property, how could it not be in your rights to defend it?


dude, that other girl was tortured for like 20 years.

Not in the same way. Raped, yes. But she didn't get boiling water poured on her, he eyelids cut nor a heavy object thrust into her skull.

I guess it brings up the question of which you'd prefer, 20 years of imprisonment, without torture, or one day of torture and then freedom. It's actually an interesting question.


Man's level of depravity and lack of any moral fiber doesn't faze me anymore.

The rofl thing about this is he'll probably just end up in jail with a relatively easy life, I don't care what some democratic govermants think about capital punishment for people like this it's nessercary evil I'd also enjoy stooping to their level and torturing the shit out of him, but he'd probably get a kick out of it.

Reminds of something I read/heard in yesterdays news, That Austrian (I think)guy Fritz, the sick bastard who had children with his daughter and had them in the celler for years, well it's been reported that he's had over a hundred love letters from woman professing their love, you just can't make up stuff like that if you tried. human beings can be weird muthafookers.

And I bet you, this guy will have his admirers too, rofl what a wonderful world.

Wait, what? Women sent him love letters? What the fuck? I mean find if you're into submission but he wasn't roleplaying there. I just... how? How can you love someone like that.

It's deeply disturbing.


Do people have to bring gun ownership into everything?

Until the gun laws make sense, yes. :p


And yeah that was fucking horrible. I'm amazed by how logically she acted to free herself at the end though, after going through all that. Prime example of the human nature to survive. You can't defend something like that with mental haelth problems, it's just downright depravity.

Yep, she did well. I do imagine what would of happened if she had a knife or a gun. Though she was caught in such and off-guard position it may not of helped in the end. Brutal as it was.


Yea, since it said the guy is homeless....

Did it? I must of missed that. It's a shame really, the trauma he caused her should be repaid, the medical bills alone will be staggering unless she has medical insurance. If he has nothing though, that would be a contributing factor as to why he felt he could do this.

To quote fight club "You're only truly free once you have lost everything". Perhaps that's how he felt, in that "what do I have to lose" mentality? If he was homeless, he may even consider prison a step up.

Razel
06-06-2008, 21:27
And of course, this is all about gun control...
Yeah, 'cause in countries with extensive gun control, unrestrained torture and sadistic violation of others are everyday occurrences. Could we save the crusade for a different occasion, perchance?

no... because it has everything to do with it. Declaw a cat or a dog and see what happens. The moment you give the right to defend yourself to the cops or govt you have signed your own death warrant. IF you cannot understand that then you probably deserve to be the next victim.

Erwanesse
06-06-2008, 21:29
"Mr. Williams was mentally fit for trial. After that decision, Mr. Levine said he was considering a mental illness defense."

Son of a bitch I don't know how anyone could defend a scumbag like that no matter how much money they'd get paid, if he's not found guilty then I'm slitting my wrists and converting to Buddhism.

Well you could consider converting to Buddhism either way... It's not such a bad philosophy to live by, you know... But don't slit your wrists, you'll mess up your carpet, for goodness sake..

shnedit
06-06-2008, 21:29
Declaw a dog and see what happens.

This has nothing to do with anything , but dawgs bite. Declawing them would be like chopping off our nails.

surGeonFFS
06-06-2008, 21:30
The thing is, although its sick, its all she was used to. That was life for her, that basement. I know its sick but she would have got used to it.

The 23 year old prob had a totaly normal life, until she was subjected to that nightmare.

Very good point. Rape is a bullshit crime, having sex with someone you don't want to have sex with isn't going to kill you. Society's has construed it into being one of the worst crimes there is which in turn has made the psychological effects of being raped much worse, it's a vicious circle sort of. I'm not saying it's not a crime but it's not comparable to torture, murder or other violent crimes that actually hurts people physically. She probably didn't even know she was supposed to feel degraded or humiliated, the real crime was holding her captive for 23 years.

This thread should be "Torture featuring rape", not "Rape featuring torture".

Death's Chill
06-06-2008, 21:30
I understand your point and it's valid. However my thoughts were not on revenge, it was... that would be the only sure fire way he wouldn't walk the streets again... but we're all going to be paying for his life long vacation in prison. I'm already paying out the @ss from my check for foodstamps and whatnot so lazy people can buy their beer and cigarettes... I don't want to pay for anything for that asshole.

I actually really do see your point, but if we make an exception here, we can't actually decide where to draw the line, no... judges and government will. That's why it scares me. If we deem prison's purpose no longer as rehabilitation, something just doesn't seem right at all to me.

It's not like it matters though. The cost of keeping someone in prison, while gargantuan in large numbers, isn't that much considering how much the government brings it. Not to change the subject, but if they were to just fucking bring the troops home we'd save half a billion dollars annually, which can be used in cases like this.

Razel
06-06-2008, 21:30
This has nothing to do with anything , but dawgs bite. Declawing them would be like chopping off our nails.

stfu

paade
06-06-2008, 21:31
I guess it brings up the question of which you'd prefer, 20 years of imprisonment, without torture, or one day of torture and then freedom. It's actually an interesting question.



imprisonment for 20 years+getting raped by your own father(and maybe he brought friends too)+having kids with your own father... all this in your home.

ya, really hard question.

Boadicea
06-06-2008, 21:31
They should send him to the prison in Beaumont, Texas. I can guarantee his stay there wouldn't be "easy".

Battle
06-06-2008, 21:33
Feel really bad for the girl. The man who did this should be put out of his misery, mentally ill or not. This mental illness needs to be erased from our gene pool.

Erwanesse
06-06-2008, 21:33
Very good point. Rape is a bullshit crime, having sex with someone you don't want to have sex with isn't going to kill you. Society's has construed it into being one of the worst crimes there is which in turn has made the psychological effects of being raped much worse, it's a vicious circle sort of. I'm not saying it's not a crime but it's not comparable to torture, murder or other violent crimes that actually hurts people physically. She probably didn't even know she was supposed to feel degraded or humiliated, the real crime was holding her captive for 23 years.

This thread should be "Torture featuring rape", not "Rape featuring torture".

You are being sarcastic, right? Please say yes...

Damwa
06-06-2008, 21:35
no... because it has everything to do with it. Declaw a cat or a dog and see what happens. The moment you give the right to defend yourself to the cops or govt you have signed your own death warrant. IF you cannot understand that then you probably deserve to be the next victim.

If I don't "understand" your position, (that is; if I don't nod my head and keep my mouth shut), I deserve to be raped and tortured for 19 hours? Your mind is a bastion of reason and reasonability...

This is a *particular* case, how could you possibly say that this has some bearing on gun laws, when you don't know anything about the particulars? You can say; if she had a gun, and if she had it on her, and if she was calm enough to think of using it, and if she was able to evade his close-range assault on her long enough to draw the weapon, then...
But it is kind of silly and tasteless to say that; "she would have been safe if she had owned a gun" and then to insinuate that gun control had anything to do with her (apparently) not having one.
But I suppose; if she didn't have a gun and *could* have had a gun, she probably deserved it, if I am to follow your previous insinuation?

LadyKaliska
06-06-2008, 21:37
I actually really do see your point, but if we make an exception here, we can't actually decide where to draw the line, no... judges and government will. That's why it scares me. If we deem prison's purpose no longer as rehabilitation, something just doesn't seem right at all to me.

It's not like it matters though. The cost of keeping someone in prison, while gargantuan in large numbers, isn't that much considering how much the government brings it. Not to change the subject, but if they were to just fucking bring the troops home we'd save half a billion dollars annually, which can be used in cases like this.

Yup, too bad they can't just throw him in with everyone else, and "accidently" let it slip what his crime was and let what happen, happen. Unfortanately, for me personally, even if that guy is in prison for say only 20 years, and some Dr. Phil person said he was right in the head... well... I just wouldn't believe it, whether it's possible or not. And I personally wouldn't feel safe around that guy. Ever. And as for balance in government, it's one one those things I don't we're going to achieve in my lifetime. >.<; Sorry to say...

surGeonFFS
06-06-2008, 21:43
You are being sarcastic, right? Please say yes...

I'm afraid not.

Razel
06-06-2008, 21:44
If I don't "understand" your position, (that is; if I don't nod my head and keep my mouth shut), I deserve to be raped and tortured for 19 hours? Your mind is a bastion of reason and reasonability...

This is a *particular* case, how could you possibly say that this has some bearing on gun laws, when you don't know anything about the particulars? You can say; if she had a gun, and if she had it on her, and if she was calm enough to think of using it, and if she was able to evade his close-range assault on her long enough to draw the weapon, then...
But it is kind of silly and tasteless to say that; "she would have been safe if she had owned a gun" and then to insinuate that gun control had anything to do with her (apparently) not having one.
But I suppose; if she didn't have a gun and *could* have had a gun, she probably deserved it, if I am to follow your previous insinuation?

Every person should be able to defend themselves period as a RIGHT, just as an animal does.... Thats what i'm saying. We have... given that responsibility to cops and govt which will NEVER make you 'safe'. It in my opinon should be REQUIRED that you have protection of some type in your home to keep shit like this from happening... That my friend is common sense thinking. To take your right away and give it to someone else is R E T A R D E D.

Llyr
06-06-2008, 21:47
Every person should be able to defend themselves period as a RIGHT, just as an animal does.... Thats what i'm saying. We have... given that responsibility to cops and govt which will NEVER make you 'safe'. It in my opinon should be REQUIRED that you have protection of some type in your home to keep shit like this from happening... That my friend is common sense thinking, to take your right away and give it to someone else is R E T A R D E D.

If you're gonna compare us directly to animals, how about everyone goes back to figthing hand to hand, tooth to tooth.

Would you like to defend your house from a big guy by taking him out feral style? Cuz that's what animals have to do.

Aragoni
06-06-2008, 21:49
All this comparing to animals and shit, stop with it. Facts and such is waaay more convincing.

Btw, what tha fuck does gun control has to do with a girl, a knife and a psycho with a boner?

Slypieguy
06-06-2008, 21:50
lol, @ no death penalty. Some homeless people try to go to prison on purpose so they will have a place to live, but they get turned down because the police know they are just looking for a place to stay. This guy rapes a girl for 19 hours AND gets a free home the rest of his life.

Llyr
06-06-2008, 21:51
All this comparing to animals and shit, stop with it. Facts and such is waaay more convincing.

Btw, what tha fuck does gun control has to do with a girl, a knife and a psycho with a boner?

Yeah exactly, that's why I brought it to attention.

And agreed on the second point too, I fear by trying to dissuade the thread from turning into a gun debate it ended up inspiring it even further :(

Arkh
06-06-2008, 21:54
One other thing : her flat has a fuckin good noise isolation, she doesn't have a loud voice even while screaming, or she should totally sue her neighbour. I mean wtf @ not trying to help when you hear the kind of sound which had to come from apartment.

Razel
06-06-2008, 21:57
If you're gonna compare us directly to animals, how about everyone goes back to figthing hand to hand, tooth to tooth.

Would you like to defend your house from a big guy by taking him out feral style? Cuz that's what animals have to do.

that guy is nothing but an animal..... and should be treated as such. The human race crawled out of caves not too fucking long ago relatively speaking and act like sheep and cattle for the most part so yea... i think its a fair characterization. btw, noone would dare walk into my house uninvited, that is if they knew me for more than five minutes in their lifetime. That doesn't change the fact that everyone still has the RIGHT to defend themselves and should be required imo. WTF are you gona do... call 911 while your being raped or killed and ask for a lil help? Thats about as fucking retarded as you can get imo.

Perhaps you havent been on the planet long enough to know that people in general are fucking stupid and most are about as evolved as a dog in heat.

Damwa
06-06-2008, 21:58
Every person should be able to defend themselves period as a RIGHT just as an animal does.... Thats what i'm saying. We have... given that responsibility to cops and govt which will never make you 'safe'. It in my opinon should be REQUIRED that you have protection of some type in your home to keep shit like this from happening... That my friend is common sense thinking, to take your right away and give it to someone else is R E T A R D E D.

Just to clear the air; I have no particular stance on gun control in general. I think that this is very much an issue of national traditions and sociological circumstances. Particulars matter, in my opinion.
Beyond that; I don't have a beef with citizens owning arms, I was dubious about the notion of carry permits, but as far as I can tell from Matriel's sources; this is not an actual problem. - That is cleared then; I have no beef with that.
In regard to the US, I am no constitutional scholar, but it *does* seem to be the case that the founders intended a policy of maximum autonomy in regard to gun ownership. - That is settled with me then; no problem.

I just don't think that it is fair and reasonable that every particular incidence of "crime" is considered a relevant argument in the gun control debate as such. Even if every law abiding citizen was packing, there would still be cases where it wouldn't save them; such is life.

In this case: he followed her and charged her from a short distance away - even if she had a gun, she had bad odds for not getting pummeled.
My point is simply this: when people say - Shit happens! this is the worst kind of shit that can happen, and as much as we would like to believe in some manner of social panacea, be it guns, or education, or capital punishment, or rehabilitation, or pills, or mandatory psych. evaluations for all pre-schoolers, or whatever... Bad shit will still happen to people who don't deserve it, and we are all better off for recognizing that and allowing it to be part of our approach to society.

Eh.. anyway.. I don't actually remember if I had any particular point... or have I already made it? :o

gurinthedark
06-06-2008, 21:58
Oh my god. This guy is a fucken dick. What is the world turning into? (Not that it was any different before this.)

shnedit
06-06-2008, 21:59
that guy is nothing but an animal.....

An animal? lol , ive never heard of a animal do this kinda of stuff? When a tiger kills does it drag its prey into bleech then rape it over and over.

Calling this piece of shit a animal is badmouthing animals.

Ragnika
06-06-2008, 21:59
If you're gonna compare us directly to animals, how about everyone goes back to figthing hand to hand, tooth to tooth.

Would you like to defend your house from a big guy by taking him out feral style? Cuz that's what animals have to do.


All this comparing to animals and shit, stop with it. Facts and such is waaay more convincing.

I'm sure he's referring to instinct and self preservation. An animal uses one for the other. We're the only species that willingly participates in putting that into the hands of another being.


Btw, what tha fuck does gun control has to do with a girl, a knife and a psycho with a boner?

It has everything to do with acquiring the proper means to defend yourself.

Aragoni
06-06-2008, 22:01
Oh my god. This guy is a fucken dick. What is the world turning into? (Not that it was any different before this.)

While people in Africa, Asia and South America are starving we in Europe and North America are dieing because of obesity. We are fucking dicks too.

Jangang
06-06-2008, 22:02
An animal? lol , ive never heard of a animal do this kinda of stuff? When a tiger kills does it drag its prey into bleech then rape it over and over.

Calling this piece of shit a animal is badmouthing animals.

QFT,

Sadly this sort of thing is something only humans do.

Aragoni
06-06-2008, 22:03
It has everything to do with acquiring the proper means to defend yourself.

According to the article the things happened so quickly there would be no chance for her to pull out a gun and go berserking. Gun Control has nothing to do with this.

Ragnika
06-06-2008, 22:03
According to the article the things happened so quickly there would be no chance for her to pull out a gun and go berserking. Gun Control has nothing to do with this.

We don't know anything outside of what the article tells us.

EDIT: This was a little quick, all I'm saying is you may argue she didn't have a chance based on the article and I am making the argument that we simply don't know, and perhaps maybe she did.

surGeonFFS
06-06-2008, 22:04
that guy is nothing but an animal..... and should be treated as such. The human race crawled out of caves not too fucking long ago relatively speaking and act like sheep and cattle for the most part so yea... i think its a fair characterization. btw, noone would dare walk into my house uninvited, that is if they knew me for more than five minutes in their lifetime. That doesn't change the fact that everyone still has the RIGHT to defend themselves and should be required imo. WTF are you gona do... call 911 while your being raped or killed and ask for a lil help? Thats about as fucking retarded as you can get imo.

Work on your coherency.

I agree with your stance but for some reason you just fucking piss me off so bad.

Yakamoz
06-06-2008, 22:08
Just kill him and lets save taxpayers money.

Steelbadger
06-06-2008, 22:10
QFT,

Sadly this sort of thing is something only humans do.

Ummm... (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7379554.stm)

Battle
06-06-2008, 22:11
QFT,

Sadly this sort of thing is something only humans do.

Not defending rape, but humans are one of very few animals that have consensual sex.

Aragoni
06-06-2008, 22:12
We don't know anything outside of what the article tells us.

EDIT: This was a little quick, all I'm saying is you may argue she didn't have a chance based on the article and I am making the argument that we simply don't know, and perhaps maybe she did.

Maybe true but srsly... there are countless of gun control threads so please keep it to them and let us make jokes on how owned she got.


Just kill him and lets save taxpayers money.

Do you really want to give the state the authority to kill its own people?

Damwa
06-06-2008, 22:14
Ummm... (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7379554.stm)

It was still 18h 15min short...

At any rate there is no comparison; my in-laws' dog sometimes tries to mount my leg, but I don't think that it has malicious intents. If you had a link that said; "Fur seal kidnaps king penguin, restrains it, and then proceeds to rape and torture it for 19 hours." - then there might be a case..

Razel
06-06-2008, 22:15
Work on your coherency.

I agree with your stance but for some reason you just fucking piss me off so bad.

i comprehend fine mfer, the mere fact that most people take delight in the tragedies that befall others shows how far we have evolved as humans. Ever see an accident on the freeway or someones house burn down? There will be a huge crowd standing by saying oohh, ahh, neat, enjoying the scene like it happened for their entertainment, etc. Some of the responses in this very thread are a classic example.

Ragnika
06-06-2008, 22:16
Ummm... (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7379554.stm)

Haha it's amusing to see this linked within the context this thread had progressed into.

surGeonFFS
06-06-2008, 22:21
i comprehend fine mfer

Haha, oh wow. Sweet irony.

Damwa
06-06-2008, 22:22
Not defending rape, but humans are one of very few animals that have consensual sex.

It is absolutely true (insofar as "consensual" is understood narrowly), and certainly most animals approach sex from a certain "dominance" or "assertion" perspective, but even so; few animals are even capable of rape, since the resistance the potential "victim" can put up precludes success. Ducks do rape, but they only do gang-bangs; apparently one male duck cannot sufficiently restrain another duck. The comparison isn't entirely fair, 'cause female animals are "programmed" to submit to certain types of behaviour etc., and so it is really a different ball-game.

At any rate animals approach sex from the perspective of instincts and hormones, not gratification of personal fantasies, frustration and sadism.

Jangang
06-06-2008, 22:46
Ummm... (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7379554.stm)


Not defending rape, but humans are one of very few animals that have consensual sex.

Uh, I wasn't talking about the sex. I was talking about the premeditation, torture, and possible attempted murder. And the dragging it out for 19 hours.

You two are pretty frick'n dense to not have gotten that.

Battle
06-06-2008, 22:53
Uh, I wasn't talking about the sex. I was talking about the premeditation, torture, and possible attempted murder. And the dragging it out for 19 hours.

You two are pretty frick'n dense to not have gotten that.

So you were talking about all those other things but not the rape...

Sure you were.

You are obviously just arguing for the sake of arguing now.

Misha
06-06-2008, 23:07
I don't even know how to respond except for that bastard is fucked up.

Beeblebrox
06-06-2008, 23:07
Thats the kind of thing that makes you think: live your live, take care of yourself and your family, and forget about everyone else, the world is fucked. I don't like to think like that but damn...

Last month one team of journalists was kidnapped and tortured here in brazil. They were working on this story about the militias that control large areas in Rio. When it's not the militias, it's the drug lords...

I don't know how it is in your countries, but here the news just keep getting worse by the minute.

Death's Chill
06-06-2008, 23:09
lol, @ no death penalty. Some homeless people try to go to prison on purpose so they will have a place to live, but they get turned down because the police know they are just looking for a place to stay. This guy rapes a girl for 19 hours AND gets a free home the rest of his life.

I think homeless people who actually think prison is better are fucking insane.
Yes, you get food, and clothes, and a place to sleep. Big deal, you're not free. Freedom is easily the most important thing anyone can have. If someone would give it up for food and clothes, they are downright retarded.

Besides, not only are you not free, but you're still forced to work for nearly nothing, and you have no privacy. Enjoy going to the bathroom in front of 100 other inmates. Oh and don't drop the soap, it's not like the guards will actually try to stop anything.


Yup, too bad they can't just throw him in with everyone else, and "accidently" let it slip what his crime was and let what happen, happen. Unfortanately, for me personally, even if that guy is in prison for say only 20 years, and some Dr. Phil person said he was right in the head... well... I just wouldn't believe it, whether it's possible or not. And I personally wouldn't feel safe around that guy. Ever. And as for balance in government, it's one one those things I don't we're going to achieve in my lifetime. >.<; Sorry to say...

I do see your point, but I think people can change. I guess I just try to have some hope that our system can work. It's really just a messed up world.

Ample
06-06-2008, 23:16
thats really fking messed up.
maybe we shouldn't link stories this bad. if i were in control of punishing him, i would make him feel the same pain she did, not necessarily by the same means but damn.

Jangang
06-06-2008, 23:17
So you were talking about all those other things but not the rape...

Sure you were.

You are obviously just arguing for the sake of arguing now.

So sayeth one of the dumbest mofo's around eh?

First of all, shut your newbie ass mouth. Second of all, stop pretending like you have any way of knowing what the hell I was talking about. And third of all, stop posturing for E-Cool by trying to be an internet hard ass. You suck at it, and only make you look like the retarded inbred son of a ass pirate.

You are nothing, & your opinion is less then nothing.

And for the record, I wasn't arguing. I was calling you an idiot.

Which you are.

This is apparent and supported by two facts... A, that you actually thought the rape was the all encompassing facet of the case everyone is sickened by. And B, that you read my correction and subsequent insult of your intelligence as anything other then that.

Have a nice day!

Now go make me a sandwich! I'm hungry, do not make me wait.

Battle
06-06-2008, 23:20
So sayeth one of the dumbest mofo's around eh?

First of all, shut your newbie ass mouth. Second of all, stop pretending like you have any way of knowing what the hell I was talking about. And third of all, stop posturing for E-Cool by trying to be an internet hard ass. You suck at it, and only make you look like the retarded inbred son of a ass pirate.

You are nothing, & you opinion is less then nothing.

And for the record, I wasn't arguing. I was calling you an idiot.

Which you are.

This is apparent and supported by two facts... A, that you actually thought the rape was the all encompassing facet of the case everyone is sickened by. And B, that you read my correction and subsequent insult of your intelligence as anything other then that.

Have a nice day!

Now go make me a sandwich! I'm hungry, do not make me wait.

Thanks for proving my point :lmao:

Jangang
06-06-2008, 23:21
Any one else hear Charlie Browns parents?

Mumwhaa whaaa whaa, muwhaa whaaa whaaa whaa...

GFH_Spike
06-06-2008, 23:25
Another sick fuck that should be shot and killed.

shnedit
06-06-2008, 23:25
Now go make me a sandwich! I'm hungry, do not make me wait.

Can i have one while hes at it? Ham and cheese, please.

alfaroverall
06-06-2008, 23:31
And it should be. What makes people think it's ok to kill someone for stealing meaningless material items I will never understand.
I didn't say it shouldn't be illegal, I do agree that it should be illegal if they are of no personal threat to you. I do not, however, think that it should carry a murder charge. (For indeed, what is killing a thief in your house compared to killing a random person on the street, or committing premeditated murder?) I think there should be a separate offense (still a felony, mind you) for those who kill someone who is performing a non-violent felony against them, the most obvious example being theft.

And of course, this is all about gun control...
Yeah, 'cause in countries with extensive gun control, unrestrained torture and sadistic violation of others are everyday occurrences. Could we save the crusade for a different occasion, perchance?
I didn't want to make this a gun control thread, but you should look up statistics. (For the US, fbi.gov has some nice ones.) Gun control almost unilaterally increases violent crime when it is instituted, and for obvious reasons. Criminals have less to fear in a place where they know they won't get shot by the person to whom they are doing harm.

Battle
06-06-2008, 23:39
I didn't say it shouldn't be illegal, I do agree that it should be illegal if they are of no personal threat to you. I do not, however, think that it should carry a murder charge. (For indeed, what is killing a thief in your house compared to killing a random person on the street, or committing premeditated murder?) I think there should be a separate offense (still a felony, mind you) for those who kill someone who is performing a non-violent felony against them, the most obvious example being theft.

It would be a nice theft deterrent if they knew they had a good chance of getting shot breaking into a house.

Of course it would cause problems with being able to prove that they had broken in.

Death's Chill
06-06-2008, 23:42
I didn't say it shouldn't be illegal, I do agree that it should be illegal if they are of no personal threat to you. I do not, however, think that it should carry a murder charge. (For indeed, what is killing a thief in your house compared to killing a random person on the street, or committing premeditated murder?) I think there should be a separate offense (still a felony, mind you) for those who kill someone who is performing a non-violent felony against them, the most obvious example being theft.

Why should there be a felony for killing someone who was robbing you? It doesn't make any sense.

Camelmix
06-06-2008, 23:45
that description was up there with the tortures described in the pirate hunter. Really fucked up though

Marelt
06-06-2008, 23:46
Every person in the state of new york should get a free punch on this guy....

Dredread
06-06-2008, 23:47
If I were a police man (that was escorting him after he is found guilty; and just imprissoned for life) I would fucking shoot him in the leg... Throw a pot of boiling water on his face... Break one of his legs with a sledge hammer, then cut his fucking dick off... Then break each one his fingers, one at a time, once every 30 minutes........

Damwa
06-06-2008, 23:51
Why should there be a felony for killing someone who was robbing you? It doesn't make any sense.

To protect the Repo-man?

Insomniak
06-07-2008, 00:06
I vote that if the guy doesn't get the death sentence(impossible), sentenced to life(unlikely), or sentenced to life in a mental institution(likely) then we kill the fuck for the good of the gene pool. He deserves....actually, I don't know what he deserves. That is the single most heinous act I've ever heard of.

MOST OF WHAT THAT FUCK DID IS OUTLAWED BY THE GENEVA CONVENTION!

OvanOf Twilight
06-07-2008, 00:09
Don't give him the death setence.
I say life in prison being waterboarded and violated in every possible manner repeadtley. A man like that deserves no peace in death nor in life.

Lorth
06-07-2008, 00:21
i dont know what to say. It seems that every time i feel like humanity has a chance, that what good people do actually makes a difference, a story like this one comes along and reminds me of a sad fact:
there is no hope for humanity

End Dream
06-07-2008, 00:31
jesus... fuck...

jordanleroux
06-07-2008, 00:37
The scissors part disturbed me the most....

alfaroverall
06-07-2008, 00:46
Why should there be a felony for killing someone who was robbing you? It doesn't make any sense.
Killing them? Even I have to agree with that. If they're unarmed, there's no benefit to killing them. If you shoot someone in the leg, they are down. They can't get up to try to attack you unless they're armed themselves. So you shoot them in the leg one more time and call the cops. Killing them is not necessary to be honest.

Simmy
06-07-2008, 01:01
And it should be. What makes people think it's ok to kill someone for stealing meaningless material items I will never understand.

You've never been robbed have you?

When you come home to find someone has gone through and taken all the things you've worked to earn, gone through your own personal space... Its a really fucking bad feeling. I'd asume that its even worse to find the fucker still there.

LanMandragon
06-07-2008, 01:23
Another fine argument for the fact that if there is a god, and things are gods will, he is in fact a dick.

Where was god for her. Sickening.

VidarDf
06-07-2008, 01:30
in the good old days..... it would have been an eye for an eye.


i'd suggest making him go through what he put her through. sick.. honestly.. just sick.

fRdz
06-07-2008, 01:54
Just that she tried to take her own life says it all really

alfaroverall
06-07-2008, 02:00
Just that she tried to take her own life says it all really
And a month from getting her master's to boot!

Death's Chill
06-07-2008, 02:16
Killing them? Even I have to agree with that. If they're unarmed, there's no benefit to killing them. If you shoot someone in the leg, they are down. They can't get up to try to attack you unless they're armed themselves. So you shoot them in the leg one more time and call the cops. Killing them is not necessary to be honest.

First of all, you have no way to know whether or not they are armed. They may not think you're aware that they entered your home, so they did not draw their weapon, or any other number of circumstances where they may have a weapon, and you won't know until it is too late.

Second of all, what benefit? It's not about a "benefit" to killing them, it's about survival and your own personal rights. If someone breaks into my home, I'm not going to care whether or not they live...

In a situation like that, you do not think so clearly. It's not like you have the time to think properly. You're just going to do what is necessary to defend yourself and your property. It's that simple.

People have no issue with the government executing people that are incarcerated, and yet they have plenty of issues with civilians defending themselves to death. Which one is more morally correct? I'd think it would be obvious.


You've never been robbed have you?

When you come home to find someone has gone through and taken all the things you've worked to earn, gone through your own personal space... Its a really fucking bad feeling. I'd asume that its even worse to find the fucker still there.

Well it's not a case of revenge here. I'd never kill for revenge, merely the protection of those I love, the things I love, or myself. In this case, it would be in the protection of what I own. If someone is trying to steal something of mine, I would do anything I can to stop him, including killing him. If I can subdue him without killing him, then fine. I won't kill him for example, if I manage to knock him out or immobilized him in some way as to ensure that he cannot do me any harm or get away with my stuff.


Another fine argument for the fact that if there is a god, and things are gods will, he is in fact a dick.

Where was god for her. Sickening.

Indeed. If there is a God, in the words of George Carlin" He likely just doesn't give a fuck".

If there is a God, he probably sees us the same way as we see insects. Disposable, annoying pests. It's ironic as he created us, if he exists. Regardless, it doesn't matter. It's fun to think about though.

Spades Felligan
06-07-2008, 02:25
Sex offenders are often the most brutalized by other prisoners, and are quite frequently murdered too. He will definitely have a fun time in there.

alfaroverall
06-07-2008, 02:26
Sex offenders are often the most brutalized by other prisoners, and are quite frequently murdered too. He will definitely have a fun time in there.
Makes sense to me. "I raped a girl for 19 hours" probably doesn't work as well with the criminal side as "I beat the shit out of this guy with a 2x4."

Helgeran
06-07-2008, 02:27
Sex offenders are often the most brutalized by other prisoners, and are quite frequently murdered too. He will definitely have a fun time in there.
Yeah lol, remember that argentinian serial rapist/murdurer that got raped to death by 40 guys on his first day in jail? That's some justice right there.

Simmy
06-07-2008, 02:32
Well it's not a case of revenge here. I'd never kill for revenge, merely the protection of those I love, the things I love, or myself. In this case, it would be in the protection of what I own. If someone is trying to steal something of mine, I would do anything I can to stop him, including killing him. If I can subdue him without killing him, then fine. I won't kill him for example, if I manage to knock him out or immobilized him in some way as to ensure that he cannot do me any harm or get away with my stuff.


I completely agree, all I'm saying is that when it does happen people might not be able to display the restraint to simply incapacitate them, but rather kill them right then and there. But I agree, I believe revenge killings for a robbery are a bit over kill. However I would not hesitate to kill someone who harmed someone close to me, even if i saw them years later.

Kyur
06-07-2008, 02:51
People that go to Jail for reasons such as this get it back. Most Guards will purposely tell other inmates what this person did to get into jail, not that it's legal.. but they do, now, imagine having the guards against you AND the inmates.

This guy will have his ass hole ripped open so much that he won't even be able to feel shit comming out anymore.. His pee hole will be glued shut so he can't piss, He won't be able to sleep because his eyes will be glued open, he won't even be able to talk without someone sticking something in a hole in his body.. Hell, his meals will just be inmates shit that was grinded down in a blender.

We hope.

Insomniak
06-07-2008, 03:10
i dont know what to say. It seems that every time i feel like humanity has a chance, that what good people do actually makes a difference, a story like this one comes along and reminds me of a sad fact:
there is no hope for humanity

I can not agree with you more...

emasame
06-07-2008, 03:15
as already stated... the eye for the eye punishment.
i imagine someone doing the same thing to him would be pretty traumatizing, since he probably has that need for dominance. getting spanked like that and then some more would probably shake him.

OvanOf Twilight
06-07-2008, 03:34
Indeed. If there is a God, in the words of George Carlin" He likely just doesn't give a fuck".

If there is a God, he probably sees us the same way as we see insects. Disposable, annoying pests. It's ironic as he created us, if he exists.

Or perhaps its part of the grander scheme of things, regardless of the horrors that humans do to others and each other, one shouldn't lose faith in humanity or if your a religious person, God.
Yes this man was absolutely sick, theres no good word to describe how horrid and malicious he was. However I'd just like to say that humanity still has a chance.
It's like physics- "For ever reaction there is an equal and opposite reaction."
So personally I believe that humanity isn't evil and horrible because something good always happens as well.
Anyway enough trying to give people hope :rolleyes:

umustbemistaken
06-07-2008, 03:39
why did i read the whole thing?!?!?

I am asking myself the same fuckin thing. This article just made me furious and sad beyond reason, usually no kind of news has this affect on me. I don't have the words. After reading it naturally my first thought was kill this monster but then I realized that would be far to kind. Lets not forget however that with a case like this it is actually two cases because chances are something horrible happened to him, and for fucks sake I don't want anyone to think that when I say that, that I am saying that this monster doesn’t deserve the worst things that this world can provide. I only mean that there’s another monster linked to this and once this case is closed then perhaps they should also direct their attention into this man’s past as to put some more of his kind away.

Gloomrender
06-07-2008, 03:40
Boiling water exfoliates the skin...he was just giving her a spa treatment. And eye-slashing is all the rage with emo's. This is just a misunderstanding.

Death's Chill
06-07-2008, 03:53
Or perhaps its part of the grander scheme of things, regardless of the horrors that humans do to others and each other, one shouldn't lose faith in humanity or if your a religious person, God.
Yes this man was absolutely sick, theres no good word to describe how horrid and malicious he was. However I'd just like to say that humanity still has a chance.
It's like physics- "For ever reaction there is an equal and opposite reaction."
So personally I believe that humanity isn't evil and horrible because something good always happens as well.
Anyway enough trying to give people hope :rolleyes:

I'm not saying humanity is fucked, merely that if God really did exist, the world wouldn't be how it is now, unless he didn't care.

alfaroverall
06-07-2008, 04:03
I'm not saying humanity is fucked, merely that if God really did exist, the world wouldn't be how it is now, unless he didn't care.
There is actually a religious counterargument to this:
Consider a child who wants to go out skateboarding. You, his deeply loving parent, advise him to wear his pads, but he doesn't. He goes out and skins his knee. Do you punish him? No. You merely hope he learns his lesson not to do it again. When you are omnipotent, omniscient, and immortal, effectively any transgression that could ever happen is the same as going out skateboarding without pads on, meaning that even this terrible rape is providing a tiny contribution to the improvement of humanity.

I don't agree with it, but it's not a terrible argument.

Gloomrender
06-07-2008, 04:12
Suppose you make an ice cube, place it in the Arizona summer at 12 noon, and then tell it not to melt...

Or make a clone, infect it with aids, and tell it not to be ill...

Razel
06-07-2008, 04:15
I'm not saying humanity is fucked, merely that if God really did exist, the world wouldn't be how it is now, unless he didn't care.

oh so you mean like this?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=RGR4SFOimlk&feature=related

coulda sworn most tests were because of free will

http://youtube.com/watch?v=1WdWH53nsu8&feature=related


http://youtube.com/watch?v=tWVKfVFcKiU&feature=related

Acrylic_300
06-07-2008, 04:22
All the people who think they are cute by making fun of this lady your doomed.

If the devil doesn't get you Karma will...and it will happen in this lifetime. You may not believe it, but in the back of your mind you believe it just enough to make it happen.

The average person has three car wrecks during their life...one of yours will leave you crippled in some way.

Gloomrender
06-07-2008, 04:26
All the people who think they are cute by making fun of this lady your doomed.

If the devil doesn't get you Karma will...and it will happen in this lifetime. You may not believe it, but in the back of your mind you believe it just enough to make it happen.

The average person has three car wrecks during their life...one of yours will leave you crippled in some way.

Grow a cock and a sense of humor.

Gloomrender
06-07-2008, 04:27
oh so you mean like this?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=RGR4SFOimlk&feature=related

coulda sworn most tests were because of free will

http://youtube.com/watch?v=1WdWH53nsu8&feature=related


http://youtube.com/watch?v=tWVKfVFcKiU&feature=related

Ice a melting...

Aids infecting...

Pointless testing...

Non existing...

Atheism could be a good daft punk song.

Haart Maystorm
06-07-2008, 04:29
I'm pretty sure the guy's lawyer isn't much of a fan of keeping this guy free for much longer.

Sick.

Ches
06-07-2008, 06:31
why did i read the whole thing?!?!?

Ya me too, it was a car wreak that i could not look away from.

Dazarthas
06-07-2008, 07:10
The punishment should match the crime, IMO. What a sick motherfucker...

Jarkovii
06-07-2008, 07:30
I'm a Liberal Republican...

Give me a 9 and I'll blow his fucking brains out. Men like that deserve a trial in HELL! Not on Earth!

Dazarthas
06-07-2008, 07:42
I'm a Liberal Republican...

Give me a 9 and I'll blow his fucking brains out. Men like that deserve a trial in HELL! Not on Earth!

Nah, the folk in Hell would be on his side. They love glue and rape.

-Jotun
06-07-2008, 07:48
Lol to all of the people who think having a gun for protection is wrong

Just another situation that would not have occured if she was carrying.

Everto
06-07-2008, 08:41
dear poster,

I applaud you.
you have stunned forumfall with your level 9 brutality skill.

on a serious note:
that is some fucked up shit.
what's wrong with this world?

Titus Ultor
06-07-2008, 09:04
Just imagine waking up on that futon realizing that all the horrors which just happened to you were real, that there was no escape, and all you can do is BEG for your own death.

There is no punishment horrific enough for this man. What's most pathetic is that he was still out on the fucking street to do this shit to begin with.

Death's Chill
06-07-2008, 09:46
There is actually a religious counterargument to this:
Consider a child who wants to go out skateboarding. You, his deeply loving parent, advise him to wear his pads, but he doesn't. He goes out and skins his knee. Do you punish him? No. You merely hope he learns his lesson not to do it again. When you are omnipotent, omniscient, and immortal, effectively any transgression that could ever happen is the same as going out skateboarding without pads on, meaning that even this terrible rape is providing a tiny contribution to the improvement of humanity.

I don't agree with it, but it's not a terrible argument.

Oh, that's not what I was saying. If a God exists, I certainly do welcome him to grant his creatures free will and the ability to do whatever freely in their own realm. However, there are so many other plagues, lack of resources, the possibility of pollution, inevitable mortality, pain, deseases, famine... etcetera... if a God exists, he doesn't care enough to fix these relatively simple issues, and in fact he probably enjoys watching us squirm. It's sad to note but, at least I don't believe in a God. Things would be much more depressing if I did.


All the people who think they are cute by making fun of this lady your doomed.

If the devil doesn't get you Karma will...and it will happen in this lifetime. You may not believe it, but in the back of your mind you believe it just enough to make it happen.

The average person has three car wrecks during their life...one of yours will leave you crippled in some way.

Yes, because making fun of this girl, while pretty cold and not something I would do, certainly is causing her a great deal of torment, even more so than the actual crime that was committed.

Oh... wait, no it doesn't. In fact, she doesn't even know we exist. If karma is true, it's merely a balance, a scale. Good on one side, and bad on the other, too much good and the scale falls down, too much bad and the same thing happens. Karma would merely be the balancing act. Now, seeing as he hasn't done anything good or bad, how can karma play any role here?

Desperado[1G]
06-07-2008, 09:52
He gets to spend the rest of his life in jail?

They should take him out behind the courthouse and hang him immediately after he's convicted. I really wish they wouldn't waste so much time and money on scum like this.

Pumpkin
06-07-2008, 10:23
So he has been charged and convicted of murder twice before this already?
*GG* legal system

Radaqua
06-07-2008, 10:31
wow. That's sick. why did i read the whole thing!?

I hope the victim ever recovers from that ordeal. I assume she will have nightmares for the rest of her life.

For the asshole doing this. he should end his life in confinement. Buried alive in a coffin 2m underground.

sawyerj66
06-07-2008, 14:45
Jesus.

I am honestly rendered speechless. That is possibly one of the sickest things I have ever read. I decided to Google the man, expecting to see a photo of some crazy-looking black man with no teeth.

http://www.daylife.com/photo/09YY4jX1rwd3i

Strangely, he looks relatively harmless by crazy homeless people standards. Working in Manhattan, I probably pass dozens of people crazier looking every day.

If I was on the jury, it would take all my self-control to keep from jumping off the bench and throttling him. He deserves to be taken apart, piece by piece. Unfortunately, he's just gonna go to jail for the rest of his life. His fellow prisoners will not make his life a living hell, as most people seem to think. He's just fall into the routine and eventually die well-fed.

Nergal
06-07-2008, 14:50
Should simply do to him what he did to her. Barbaric I know but people would soon get the message.

Then jail of course.

Razel
06-07-2008, 15:02
Jesus.

I am honestly rendered speechless. That is possibly one of the sickest things I have ever read. I decided to Google the man, expecting to see a photo of some crazy-looking black man with no teeth.

http://www.daylife.com/photo/09YY4jX1rwd3i

Strangely, he looks relatively harmless by crazy homeless people standards. Working in Manhattan, I probably pass dozens of people crazier looking every day.

If I was on the jury, it would take all my self-control to keep from jumping off the bench and throttling him. He deserves to be taken apart, piece by piece. Unfortunately, he's just gonna go to jail for the rest of his life. His fellow prisoners will not make his life a living hell, as most people seem to think. He's just fall into the routine and eventually die well-fed.


I've met alot of low lifes in my day, and i've been around the block more than a time or three. Being homeless.... has nothing to do with the type of person you are... as most of the low lifes i have met in my days on this planet have mainly wore a suit and tie or were other 'professionals'. I could metion names, their positions etc but suffices to say there are just some really sick mfers in this world so lets not declare 'war on homeless people' shall we.

Gunther TheBlack
06-07-2008, 15:19
Im sorry. That is the sickest fucking shit ive ever heard. Its really made me despressed irl. What the fuck.


You should read the nullo story.

That's a whole other level of sickness :D

Gaal
06-07-2008, 16:02
5 bucks says someone makes a "saw" type of movie about this.

SSguy
06-07-2008, 16:28
You should read the nullo story.

That's a whole other level of sickness :D

I just yahooed that story.........I hate you.

This post has been approved by KingHussein

Villa
06-07-2008, 16:34
This wouldn't happen in a country which installs Shariah Law.

Simmy
06-07-2008, 16:40
You should read the nullo story.

That's a whole other level of sickness :D

I just googled it and that story scared me for life.

And now I fell a little ill.

Shads
06-07-2008, 16:42
This wouldn't happen in a country which installs Shariah Law.

Yep, there wouldn't have been any prosecution.

Marrik
06-07-2008, 16:45
The thing is, although its sick, its all she was used to. That was life for her, that basement. I know its sick but she would have got used to it.

The 23 year old prob had a totaly normal life, until she was subjected to that nightmare.

no it was NOT all she knew, he locked her down there when she was 19 if i remember correctly

Villa
06-07-2008, 16:53
Yep, there wouldn't have been any prosecution.

Rapists, murderers, paedophiles - they all get beheaded within a few days of being found guilty.
Saves time, money and dispenses appropriate punishment which also doubles up as a deterrent.

PM me when ready to convert.

Gunther TheBlack
06-07-2008, 17:04
Rapists, murderers, paedophiles - they all get beheaded within a few days of being found guilty.

The system sure shows some serious flaws when you're still happily running around.

Oh wait? That's probably cause you fled to Europe. COWARD!!!

Gunther TheBlack
06-07-2008, 17:05
I just googled it and that story scared me for life.

And now I fell a little ill.


YEAAAAAAAAAH!!!

Viluin
06-07-2008, 17:31
Since everything has been said already, I will say this: I'm glad I'm a man.

Villa
06-07-2008, 17:35
The system sure shows some serious flaws when you're still happily running around.

Oh wait? That's probably cause you fled to Europe. COWARD!!!
What part of your post made even one small bit of sense ?
Not that I ever expect you to post anything but random ramblings, but still...

Fylraen
06-07-2008, 17:46
You should read the nullo story.

That's a whole other level of sickness :D

No it's not, this is worse. At least the nullo was doing what they wanted, maybe or something.

Gunther TheBlack
06-07-2008, 17:58
What part of your post made even one small bit of sense ?
Not that I ever expect you to post anything but random ramblings, but still...


For someone with such believes i'm not surprised it doesn't have the mental capacity to understand my post :D

Nehemia
06-07-2008, 18:03
This guy shouldn't be sent to jail or given a death penalty. Someone should freaking torture him for over an day in row, gouge his eyes out and finally make him lose his sanity (Well, his most likely crazy enough already), afterwards, toss him into a room to complete silence, make sure he has no fucking possibility to kill himself.
That would be justice.

Acrylic_300
06-07-2008, 18:05
Yes, because making fun of this girl, while pretty cold and not something I would do, certainly is causing her a great deal of torment, even more so than the actual crime that was committed.

Oh... wait, no it doesn't. In fact, she doesn't even know we exist. If karma is true, it's merely a balance, a scale. Good on one side, and bad on the other, too much good and the scale falls down, too much bad and the same thing happens. Karma would merely be the balancing act. Now, seeing as he hasn't done anything good or bad, how can karma play any role here?

Do you realize that your explanation of the balance between good and evil makes no sense? What you are saying is that the evil things people do and say are somehow balanced out by supernatural, good things happening.

That's not how it works; evil deeds cause a chain reaction...nearly every person that has looked at this thread has become a little more evil than before. Myself included. I found myself wanting to torture this guy.

The righteous thing to do would be to forgive him because love and peace of mind is better for your long term health than hate and resentment is. At the same time though he has to be killed before he spreads more hate.

On the subject of people that are doomed for making fun of this lady, the doom will come from their own mind. It may seem insignificant at the time it was said, but it will always be their in the back of their minds gaining weight...causing things to happen.

Sabrok
06-07-2008, 18:08
Rape and torture are two things I'll never understand. I just don't get what motivates someone to get off on that kind of brutality.

A very screwed up childhood usually....

Spinewire
06-07-2008, 18:14
When he gets out he will probabaly be given a job as a teacher

Death's Chill
06-07-2008, 18:15
Do you realize that your explanation of the balance between good and evil makes no sense? What you are saying is that the evil things people do and say are somehow balanced out by supernatural, good things happening.

That is what karma is. If there is too much evil, it replaces it with good to even the scale, or vice versa.


That's not how it works; evil deeds cause a chain reaction...nearly every person that has looked at this thread has become a little more evil than before. Myself included. I found myself wanting to torture this guy.

Thoughts are neutral, only actions can be positive or negative, as only actions affect other people.


The righteous thing to do would be to forgive him because love and peace of mind is better for your long term health than hate and resentment is. At the same time though he has to be killed before he spreads more hate.

Executing someone who is of no threat to anyone is idiotic, and again, giving such power to the government royally freaks me out.



On the subject of people that are doomed for making fun of this lady, the doom will come from their own mind. It may seem insignificant at the time it was said, but it will always be their in the back of their minds gaining weight...causing things to happen.

If they made fun of her in the first place, it's because they don't care...

SSguy
06-07-2008, 18:44
Do you realize that your explanation of the balance between good and evil makes no sense? What you are saying is that the evil things people do and say are somehow balanced out by supernatural, good things happening.


Chill is a highschool drop out, she knows nothing.

Karma is not a balancing act, Karma is a bitch that just keeps taking, regardless of how good you are, until she gets distracted and starts screwing someone else over.



That's not how it works; evil deeds cause a chain reaction...nearly every person that has looked at this thread has become a little more evil than before. Myself included. I found myself wanting to torture this guy.


Hating evil is not evil, if it was, then we are all evil, which is bs.



The righteous thing to do would be to forgive him because love and peace of mind is better for your long term health than hate and resentment is. At the same time though he has to be killed before he spreads more hate.


The righteous thing to do would be to kill the guy to honor the girls suffering. By not doing so, you tell society that her torture is meaningless.
By allowing him to live, you give him the chance to commit the horible acts again, and THAT is truly an evil act upon his next victim.

Its not like our prisons are so punishing that people fear going to jail....they are fucking full.

Punish him for what he did, not for what he might not do.

This post has been approved by KingHussein

SSguy
06-07-2008, 18:51
There is actually a religious counterargument to this:
Consider a child who wants to go out skateboarding. You, his deeply loving parent, advise him to wear his pads, but he doesn't. He goes out and skins his knee. Do you punish him? No. You merely hope he learns his lesson not to do it again. When you are omnipotent, omniscient, and immortal, effectively any transgression that could ever happen is the same as going out skateboarding without pads on, meaning that even this terrible rape is providing a tiny contribution to the improvement of humanity.

I don't agree with it, but it's not a terrible argument.


Yes it is a terrible argument. You are placing murder, rape, and anything that involves another person on the same level of one thats just a small accident involving one person.

If thats the kind of God you worship, then I say fuck him because my brand of justice is better.

What fucking contribution is it making?? To teach the girl not to get raped again?? What the fuck?
Please tell me what the hell she did wrong other than not ignore someone asking for help??
Is that the lesson you want us to take from this?? Ignore people asking for help? Thats surely benefits humanity.

Fuck the idiot who decided to copy god damn ubb formatting tags.

This post has been approved by KingHussein
KingHussein also believes alfaroverall is a faggot for saying its not a terrible argument.

Thrill_KIll
06-07-2008, 18:56
Just read the story, and not all responses, so sorry if this has been said already.

I say they should hand him over to the girl's family, and forget they did so.

Tharkon Fargor
06-07-2008, 18:57
Funny. I remember a prison in Iraq.
In that prison horrible things happend. And still some people were angry at who ever exposed that, some even approved of torturing those "sandniggers".

Oh but I guess in war everything is allowed...where sane people torture other sane people.


Ofcourse if a mentally retarded person who's probably been hiding in his basement his whole life does it...then it's something 20 times worse.

I think the death penalty or a really long jailsentance is what's needed.
Those who are actually sane and have normal lives (I hope that most of you here on this forum do) and still advocate torture, brutality and other things as a punishment are even more sickening.

For you aren't doing it because your mind is fucked or because you have a twisted sexual fantasy you just can't stop thinking about every year of your life as this retard probably had. No, you're them who were on the Colosseum watching those you hate get ripped to pieces by lions or other men.

Back then you hated barbarians and later heretics (witch burnings etc) now you hate sandniggers and rapists. Not that I don't, but even if I hated heretics and barbarians 1700 years ago or more I wouldn't ask for them to be tortured or brutaly murdered as I don't with "sandniggers" or rapists today.

Cribble
06-07-2008, 19:02
My opinion is that he should be kept in a cold room sound proof room wiht no possible way to kill himself other than drinking a bottle of extremely slow working bleach.

He would get a bath though, I hate dirty people, but his bath would be in boling water,hot enough to badly scar him but not to hot enough to kill him.

sawyerj66
06-07-2008, 19:43
I've met alot of low lifes in my day, and i've been around the block more than a time or three. Being homeless.... has nothing to do with the type of person you are... as most of the low lifes i have met in my days on this planet have mainly wore a suit and tie or were other 'professionals'. I could metion names, their positions etc but suffices to say there are just some really sick mfers in this world so lets not declare 'war on homeless people' shall we.
lol, that's a pretty huge leap from my post, which you quoted, to "war on the homeless"

Thrill_KIll
06-07-2008, 19:47
Funny. I remember a prison in Iraq.
In that prison horrible things happend. And still some people were angry at who ever exposed that, some even approved of torturing those "sandniggers".

Oh but I guess in war everything is allowed...where sane people torture other sane people.


Are you seriously comparing sleep deprivation to what this guy did?

Villa
06-07-2008, 20:03
Are you seriously comparing sleep deprivation to what this guy did?
Are you seriously narrow minded enough to think it was just sleep deprivation ?

Tharkon Fargor
06-07-2008, 20:13
Are you seriously comparing sleep deprivation to what this guy did?

I'm not talking about Guantanamo bay (though they won't let in anyone to inspect there so how could we know?)


is Guantanamo Bay in Iraq?


Do again and do right as we would say in Sweden.

Acrylic_300
06-07-2008, 20:16
Hating evil is not evil, if it was, then we are all evil, which is bs.

It is still hate though and hate will take years off of your life. I actually heard a preacher preaching to a lady in front of a congregation telling her she had to hate the cancer. I walked out of the church and never went back.

The best way I can explain it, is by using this example: Mothers have the amazing power to heal a moderately sick child. It isn't the mother that heals the child...it's the child's love for his/her mother that helps with the healing process.

Hate causes sickness...love heals sickness.

It is all just chemicals your brain releases. You can step outside yourself and look at something like this rape without feeling hate. I felt hate when I imagined what he did but I would have been better off in the long run feeling nothing at all. The best case scenario though would be to love the man and forgive him, then kill him.

FuFuMurder
06-07-2008, 20:20
I don't love my parents. Quite the opposite. Actually, I hate nearly everyone I meet.

Sabrok
06-07-2008, 20:26
Evil does not exist, Dr. Benjamin Libet, leading specialist of consciousness of the 20th century, proved libertarian free will impossible/non-existent. Our actions are initiated by the subconscious microseconds before conscious awareness even comes into play, of course this is not discussed as most aren't wired with the emotional strength to continue living if they knew they had little to no control of their actions.

As hard as it is to discuss, if any of us had this guys genetics and had gone through the thousands upon thousands of experiences that shaped him throughout his formative years, given the opportunity we would have done the exact same thing.

FuFuMurder
06-07-2008, 20:28
Evil does not exist, Dr. Benjamin Libet, leading specialist of consciousness of the 20th century, proved libertarian free will impossible/non-existent. Our actions are initiated by the subconscious microseconds before conscious awareness even comes into play, of course this is not discussed as most aren't wired with the emotional strength to continue living if they knew they had little to no control of their actions.

As hard as it is to discuss, if any of us had this guys genetics and had gone through the thousands upon thousands of experiences that shaped him throughout his formative years, given the opportunity we would have done the exact same thing.

Sweet. An excuse to punch you in the face!

Sabrok
06-07-2008, 20:29
excuses are irrelevant.

FuFuMurder
06-07-2008, 20:29
excuses are irrelevant.

Punch. Better?

Simmy
06-07-2008, 20:32
Evil does not exist, Dr. Benjamin Libet, leading specialist of consciousness of the 20th century, proved libertarian free will impossible/non-existent. Our actions are initiated by the subconscious microseconds before conscious awareness even comes into play, of course this is not discussed as most aren't wired with the emotional strength to continue living if they knew they had little to no control of their actions.

As hard as it is to discuss, if any of us had this guys genetics and had gone through the thousands upon thousands of experiences that shaped him throughout his formative years, given the opportunity we would have done the exact same thing.


Libet finds room for free will in the interpretation of his results only in the form of 'the power of veto'; conscious acquiescence is required to allow the unconscious buildup of the readiness potential to be actualized as a movement. While consciousness plays no part in the instigation of volitional acts, it retains a part to play in the form of suppressing or withholding from certain acts instigated by the unconscious. Libet noted that everyone has experienced the withholding from performing an unconscious urge.

He still says that there is free will, its just not really what you'd think it was.

Sabrok
06-07-2008, 20:33
If you reacted that way to my statement you couldn't help it. Albert Einstein had good writings on the topic of free will before research confirmed his suspicions if you want further research.

Sabrok
06-07-2008, 20:34
He still says that there is free will, its just not really what you'd think it was.

A very limited form of compatabilism is still possible, not likely though.

Simmy
06-07-2008, 20:35
A very limited form of compatabilism is still possible, not likely though.

Not the way he implied it.

Sabrok
06-07-2008, 20:38
Not the way he implied it.

He was under a lot of fire from religious groups, he said what he had to, because compatabilism is so different than libertarian free will it's a discussion that would take many pages.

Simmy
06-07-2008, 20:39
He was under a lot of fire from religious groups, he said what he had to, because compatabilism is so different than libertarian free will it's a discussion that would take many pages.

Link? I cant seem to find that.

Sabrok
06-07-2008, 20:41
Link? I cant seem to find that.

Common Knowledge to those who know of his research, I didn't get it from a link.

Simmy
06-07-2008, 20:42
Common Knowledge to those who know of his research, I didn't get it from a link.

K, I'll keep looking at his research then

Acrylic_300
06-07-2008, 20:43
I don't love my parents. Quite the opposite. Actually, I hate nearly everyone I meet.

This is why Jesus is so popular. It gives you a conduit to release good chemicals in your brain and be healthy. There is not a whole lot to hate about Jesus and even if you do hate him, a little bit of love has to seep in just knowing that he loves you even if you hate him.

Even if Jesus is a made up image, it's still a good icon for controlling your brain chemistry and staying healthy. It may even have powers we can't explain or understand when enough people are focused on it.

This rapist needs to die, but he does not have to be hated.

Lotharr
06-07-2008, 20:57
I have three words:

What the fuck?

Largion
06-07-2008, 21:04
Put him in jail so he can get raped every day for the rest of his life. And thats what they do in American jails i have seen the movies. ;)

Razel
06-07-2008, 23:21
Oh, that's not what I was saying. If a God exists, I certainly do welcome him to grant his creatures free will and the ability to do whatever freely in their own realm. However, there are so many other plagues, lack of resources, the possibility of pollution, inevitable mortality, pain, deseases, famine... etcetera... if a God exists, he doesn't care enough to fix these relatively simple issues, and in fact he probably enjoys watching us squirm. It's sad to note but, at least I don't believe in a God. Things would be much more depressing if I did.



Yes, because making fun of this girl, while pretty cold and not something I would do, certainly is causing her a great deal of torment, even more so than the actual crime that was committed.

Oh... wait, no it doesn't. In fact, she doesn't even know we exist. If karma is true, it's merely a balance, a scale. Good on one side, and bad on the other, too much good and the scale falls down, too much bad and the same thing happens. Karma would merely be the balancing act. Now, seeing as he hasn't done anything good or bad, how can karma play any role here?

but what about love? true love that is as was mentioned here http://youtube.com/watch?v=tWVKfVFcKiU&feature=related

You said "I certainly do welcome him to grant his creatures free will and the ability to do whatever freely in their own realm." however you don't seem to the care for the Responsibilites it brings. Of course you cannot control the actions of what someone else chooses to do, thats the whole point. Typical human nature... always wanting the cake, icing, eating it too and... the grass on the other side of the fence.... oh and that APPLE IN THE TREE! but oh noooz if someone comes along and eats it first in a manner you don't care for or you find repulsive. badmadcow! amirite?

So it seems to me... the only thing that can exist in gods realm if it exists is true love, as boring as that sounds.... 'better to reign in hell with all it has to offer than serve in heaven' and all of that right?

So here we are... we all make choices and live or die with the consequences thereof yet seem to forget about the responsibilities of that freedom. The only problem i have in relation to this thread is that i feel everyone should be able to protect themselves from the shit like what this madman done to this woman. In my opinion it should be REQUIRED that everyone have self protection and that RIGHT not given to some other entity to protect us as it obviously has failed time and time again. Until the laws are changed then we can expect to see more headlines such as this one and some of you can gloat at the injustice, blame your god... or whatever. As it stands, the govt seems to wish to disarm its citizens... We are obviously not heading in the right direction, no suprise there...

The best anyone can do in this case it to learn from the misfortune that has befallen this lady. YOU have the responsibilty to protect your spouse, family or whatever you can within reason and try to abide by the law. Worst case scenario, break every bone in someones body (twice) that harms one of your loved ones, just as i would.

Thrill_KIll
06-08-2008, 14:07
I'm not talking about Guantanamo bay (though they won't let in anyone to inspect there so how could we know?)


is Guantanamo Bay in Iraq?


Do again and do right as we would say in Sweden.

I wasn't talking about Guantanamo either. I was speaking to Abugraib (sp?). And the country was in an uproar over it, because they did things like:

1) Put guard dogs in the vicinity of them, making the prisoners think they were going to be attacked.

2) Chained them to their bed nude, in positions that would not allow them to sit for hours on end.

3) SLEEP DEPRIVATION

Of course, the biggest problem with that prison was it was located in the middle of a combat zone under constant shelling.

Now, before you get your panties in a twist, I am NOT defending what they did. I am simply asking, are you seriously comparing that to what this guy did to that woman?

losinglife
06-10-2008, 07:25
thats a horror movie in the making right thar

Pcheez
06-10-2008, 07:41
Yeah im sorry my sadistic side came through.

I loled.

What a trip man.

19 hours and she couldnt figure anything to get herself out of that.

Imo the world needs to reintroduce the gengis khan capital punishment method, this guy, altho awesome, deserves a slow tormentous death.

Bolter
06-10-2008, 10:11
This is why legal torture should be allowed. (On the criminals)

Tharkon Fargor
06-10-2008, 11:06
Gah. Idiots

Spart
06-10-2008, 11:27
Yeah im sorry my sadistic side came through.

I loled.

What a trip man.

19 hours and she couldnt figure anything to get herself out of that.

Imo the world needs to reintroduce the gengis khan capital punishment method, this guy, altho awesome, deserves a slow tormentous death.

I hope you die. We certainly don't need your kind.

Anyway, put him in one of the really rough prisons and make sure everyone there knows that anything short of murder is fine.

Eyrothath
06-10-2008, 12:11
I think the world is ready for.. Not superheroes, but some crazy anti-heroes, killing these sick fucks left and right and nobody will know who did it, like a punisher type of guy.... We do need a real life superman though.. :(

losinglife
06-10-2008, 12:20
I think the world is ready for.. Not superheroes, but some crazy anti-heroes, killing these sick fucks left and right and nobody will know who did it, like a punisher type of guy.... We do need a real life superman though.. :(

you mean batman? how original :rolleyes:

Desperado[1G]
06-10-2008, 12:27
batman was too much of a pussy to kill them, he just gave them to the police, who jailed them for like 10 days and let them out again