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KingHussien
06-06-2008, 04:30
http://www.bmwcleanenergy.com

I want!

alfaroverall
06-06-2008, 04:37
So you're going to get cryogenic hydrogen...how? Also, lol @ them not even considering the fact that the power benefits in your car for cryogenic hydrogen could not (based on fundamental thermodynamics) be greater than or equal to the energy needed to be spent to get it to that temperature in the first place. Electric vehicles>hydrogen fuel cell powered vehicles.

KingHussien
06-06-2008, 04:39
So you're going to get cryogenic hydrogen...how? Also, lol @ them not even considering the fact that the power benefits in your car for cryogenic hydrogen could not (based on fundamental thermodynamics) be greater than or equal to the energy needed to be spent to get it to that temperature in the first place. Electric vehicles>hydrogen fuel cell powered vehicles.

I highllllllllllllllllly doubt a reputable company like BMW didn't consider all the facts.

L2Research. Asshole.

Rokolith
06-06-2008, 04:44
I highllllllllllllllllly doubt a reputable company like BMW didn't consider all the facts.

L2Research. Asshole.

I didn't want to read that whole huge thread calling you out, so tell me, did you fight him or not?

KingHussien
06-06-2008, 05:03
Fuck off.

Silverhandorder
06-06-2008, 05:06
Owned.

Paralda
06-06-2008, 05:10
So you're going to get cryogenic hydrogen...how? Also, lol @ them not even considering the fact that the power benefits in your car for cryogenic hydrogen could not (based on fundamental thermodynamics) be greater than or equal to the energy needed to be spent to get it to that temperature in the first place. Electric vehicles>hydrogen fuel cell powered vehicles.

Hydrogen Fuel cells work fine if we can find a bunch of Hydrogen... too bad it reacts with everything too well.

Ample
06-06-2008, 05:12
So you're going to get cryogenic hydrogen...how? Also, lol @ them not even considering the fact that the power benefits in your car for cryogenic hydrogen could not (based on fundamental thermodynamics) be greater than or equal to the energy needed to be spent to get it to that temperature in the first place. Electric vehicles>hydrogen fuel cell powered vehicles.

wouldn't that then be the same idea making hybrids better than pure electric? In hybrids the electric part recharges itself, saving loads of gas. Pure electric, once out of juice, has to go back to the socket... which gets its energy from a power plant... which (might) get its energy from a coal using power plant. In the end you are doing nothing for the environment. I'm not sure how much money you would save from switching to pure electric, would the gas bill (with a gas burning car) < electric bill (with electric car)?

This thought just occurred to me... too lazy to look it up, on pure electric vehicles, do they use the same mechanism that hybrids use, in which, when you brake, the friction or w/e recharges the battery? Although you would clearly run out after time, you would definitely be more efficient with your energy use.

Porthios
06-06-2008, 05:18
I like the push towards hydrogen, but I hate the lack of information on the site. I tried looking for a few minutes, never found anything that actually talks about... you know, HYDROGEN FUCKING POWER, so I left. can someone paste a link, or text? This seems pretty interesting.x

Porthios
06-06-2008, 05:20
wouldn't that then be the same idea making hybrids better than pure electric? In hybrids the electric part recharges itself, saving loads of gas. Pure electric, once out of juice, has to go back to the socket... which gets its energy from a power plant... which (might) get its energy from a coal using power plant. In the end you are doing nothing for the environment.
Actually, that's wrong, because a single powerplant is much more efficient than a gas powered car. So if the electric motor is pretty efficient as well, you're actually getting more mileage for less fossil fuels by going this route. And just wait until people actually start laying solar panels all over their houses, and integrating solar cells into their windows. Then electric vehicals are going to make a whole hell of a lot more sense.

losinglife
06-06-2008, 05:39
sadly i am gonna partially and reluctantly back up hussein on his point....


Skree

Leathlord
06-06-2008, 05:40
looks pretty neat

Crying Hyena
06-06-2008, 05:43
I'd like to see more of their technology before I make a decision on this.

alfaroverall
06-06-2008, 12:39
I highllllllllllllllllly doubt a reputable company like BMW didn't consider all the facts.

L2Research. Asshole.
It's actually much simpler.

People hear hydrogen, they hear "next to zero emissions", and they have a joygasm. They want to feel like they're making a real difference, and since they can afford it, they buy the car. When in reality there has been a viable market for electric vehicles that are more energy efficient than hydrogen fuel cell vehicles (again, based on thermodynamics; electric cars is coal->power line->your house->your car, hydrogen is coal->power line->electrolysis device->shipping->your car, so inherently energy is lost during those extra steps, especially the electrolysis step) for decades.

BMW knows this, so they know they can make a fortune selling these things if they can get them out on the market.

I was gonna make the "the power plant is more efficient than the car engine" speech, but Porthios already made it.

Hydrogen Fuel cells work fine if we can find a bunch of Hydrogen... too bad it reacts with everything too well.
No one is postulating that we're going to find a bunch of hydrogen somewhere and use it in fuel cells. At the moment most hydrogen comes from fossil fuels. Within the reasonable future it would come from electrolysis of water. The only other truly reliable source that I could think of would be star mining, which is a ridiculous premise.

the Akorn
06-06-2008, 12:48
People hear hydrogen, they hear "next to zero emissions", and they have a joygasm. They want to feel like they're making a real difference, and since they can afford it, they buy the car. When in reality there has been a viable market for electric vehicles that are more energy efficient than hydrogen fuel cell vehicles (again, based on thermodynamics; electric cars is coal->power line->your house->your car, hydrogen is coal->power line->electrolysis device->shipping->your car, so inherently energy is lost during those extra steps, especially the electrolysis step) for decades.

there is also other types of power, such as nuclear, hydro, wave, wind, sun etc.

Kheiron
06-06-2008, 12:50
Actually, that's wrong, because a single powerplant is much more efficient than a gas powered car. So if the electric motor is pretty efficient as well, you're actually getting more mileage for less fossil fuels by going this route. And just wait until people actually start laying solar panels all over their houses, and integrating solar cells into their windows. Then electric vehicals are going to make a whole hell of a lot more sense.

Yeah, this is something that's concerned me for a while.
If you want to take a big step towards not fucking up the world I think the best step would be to do something like making solar panels mandatory on new houses and installing rain water tanks.
With such a large boost in demand I believe the required stuff like solar panels would drop in price and it'll certainly help out the next time our government decides to subsidize petrol in an attempt for more votes or spends another couple of million of 'Water Wise' advertising.

alfaroverall
06-06-2008, 12:51
there is also other types of power, such as nuclear, hydro, wave, wind, sun etc.
True, but at this moment (at least in the US) the majority comes from coal, so it would've been biased to say just "power plant", since it wouldn't touch on the lack of complete environmental friendliness of such a system. I should also have noted your point though; once you have electric (or hydrogen, despite its lowered efficiency) vehicles, you can power your vehicles through things other than fossil fuels with no issue. (In other words, there are more ways to get a turbine to turn than there are to power a vehicle's engine.) A whole sector of the market would suddenly not be fubar'd when fossil fuels get to be expensive as hell.

Teutates
06-06-2008, 15:14
It's actually much simpler.

People hear hydrogen, they hear "next to zero emissions", and they have a joygasm. They want to feel like they're making a real difference, and since they can afford it, they buy the car. When in reality there has been a viable market for electric vehicles that are more energy efficient than hydrogen fuel cell vehicles (again, based on thermodynamics; electric cars is coal->power line->your house->your car, hydrogen is coal->power line->electrolysis device->shipping->your car, so inherently energy is lost during those extra steps, especially the electrolysis step) for decades.

BMW knows this, so they know they can make a fortune selling these things if they can get them out on the market.

I was gonna make the "the power plant is more efficient than the car engine" speech, but Porthios already made it.

No one is postulating that we're going to find a bunch of hydrogen somewhere and use it in fuel cells. At the moment most hydrogen comes from fossil fuels. Within the reasonable future it would come from electrolysis of water. The only other truly reliable source that I could think of would be star mining, which is a ridiculous premise.
Well the thing is coal is being used less and less to create energy(especially in Europe). So if BMW does their R&D already and creates cars already they will have an advantage over other car producers by the time every1 need to switch to non-oil based fuel.

Not to mention the rising oil prices. Might be actually cheaper then oil in the near future.

SSguy
06-07-2008, 16:33
http://www.bmwcleanenergy.com

I want!

Pussies don't deserve cool cars!

This post has been approved by KingHussein