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Thrill_KIll
06-05-2008, 20:34
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTAADW9wNvk&feature=related


Got her a compact 9mm, and we are going to the range this weekend. She had a friend email her the above link, and told me she was not going to wind up a statistic.


Edit:

That fucking 911 call will send fucking shivers down your spine.

Zanzibar
06-05-2008, 20:41
Those self-defense posters are hilarious.

Unahim
06-05-2008, 20:42
That's an example of how having a gun could go well.
There are others.

Anyway, I'm not against the right to carry a gun, I simply wish you'd have to at least be instructed in it's use or something before being allowed to carry it.

Matriel
06-05-2008, 20:42
SAF > NRA.

I'd recommend getting her some formal training. From personal experience here, girlfriends do not like to listen to you for shooting tips.

Matriel
06-05-2008, 20:42
That's an example of how having a gun could go well.
There are others.

Anyway, I'm not against the right to carry a gun, I simply wish you'd have to at least be instructed in it's use or something before being allowed to carry it.

All but 2 states require this for the permit process. Funny part is one of them is one of the top 5 safest states in America (vermont).

kiwiandmango
06-05-2008, 20:45
That was so scary...I think I've changed my mind from pepper spray to a gun.

Spinewire
06-05-2008, 20:45
SAF > NRA.

I'd recommend getting her some formal training. From personal experience here, girlfriends do not like to listen to you for shooting tips.
teaching loved ones is always a pain in the ass, deffo get someone else to do it.

You should teach her some mad BJJ so she can snap some shit off if people try anything like that.

Thrill_KIll
06-05-2008, 20:48
SAF > NRA.

I'd recommend getting her some formal training. From personal experience here, girlfriends do not like to listen to you for shooting tips.


The shooting range I am a member of ($100 a year family package! Awesome place, full service for any firearm) has police volunteers that do that. I am going to just do the basic stuff with her to help her feel more comfortable, but she has already said she wants to sign up for the women's self defense firearms class.

I am all for that.

Ragnika
06-05-2008, 20:51
This is amazing!

Thrill_KIll
06-05-2008, 20:55
teaching loved ones is always a pain in the ass, deffo get someone else to do it.

You should teach her some mad BJJ so she can snap some shit off if people try anything like that.


LOL

My daughter takes BJJ and TaeKwon Do. However, my 10 year old girl can shoot her .22 pistol better than most 20 year old guys. I always tell her martial arts is good for her, but if she relies on that to stop a male attacker, she is going to lose. Women (generally, there are always a few exceptions to the rule) cannot physically out fight a man.

dhmacdonell
06-05-2008, 21:00
Yeah , fucking shitbags in the world. I taught most of the women in my family some basic and easily retainable self defense tactics... some bjj, but mostly just a lot of "go for the eyes and do it with conviction" type stuff.

i teach advanced marksmanship... women are always the best students. They listen better...

Zwarp
06-05-2008, 21:03
I'm against guns in my country !
more seriously i wish i had one, just in case...

Blixa
06-05-2008, 21:10
That's an example of how having a gun could go well.
There are others.

Anyway, I'm not against the right to carry a gun, I simply wish you'd have to at least be instructed in it's use or something before being allowed to carry it.

Of course you had to shot him. Pepperspray or even a shocker or simply a paralyse-pistol wouldn't have worked...
Sorry if I missed the sarcasm...

dhmacdonell
06-05-2008, 21:10
I have two identical .45cal SIG P220 ACP's... one with an engraving from each of my previous tours. Buying another one and having it engraved with something for my brother. "My Brother's Keeper"... gonna be his 21'st bday prez.

Ragnika
06-05-2008, 21:16
I have two identical .45cal SIG P220 ACP's... one with an engraving from each of my previous tours. Buying another one and having it engraved with something for my brother. "My Brother's Keeper"... gonna be his 21'st bday prez.

That's one hell of a gift.

Thrill_KIll
06-05-2008, 21:19
Yeah , fucking shitbags in the world. I taught most of the women in my family some basic and easily retainable self defense tactics... some bjj, but mostly just a lot of "go for the eyes and do it with conviction" type stuff.

i teach advanced marksmanship... women are always the best students. They listen better...


Women do tend to make better marksmen. I read something about the way their brains work allows them to be more relaxed or some shit.


The problem with women trying to use any BJJ is they lack the physical strength to overpower a male for any of the locks, or even to choke them out. But like you, I taught my kids what I call "caveman tactics". The eyes, grab an ear and pull (only takes 7 pounds of pressure to remove an ear), bite a plug out of them, shit like that.

dhmacdonell
06-05-2008, 21:24
That's one hell of a gift.

Yeah, gave him my ex-wife's 90' Acura Legend... 68k orig. miles... for his "going to college, good job on not fucking your life up before getting out of HS" present.

he earned 3 full ride scholarships and a stipend... he deserved a reward.

hoping he'll appreciate the pistol.

Matriel
06-05-2008, 21:48
Yeah, gave him my ex-wife's 90' Acura Legend... 68k orig. miles... for his "going to college, good job on not fucking your life up before getting out of HS" present.

he earned 3 full ride scholarships and a stipend... he deserved a reward.

hoping he'll appreciate the pistol.

If he doesn't and it's a SAO model, I'll be your brother. ;)


Women do tend to make better marksmen. I read something about the way their brains work allows them to be more relaxed or some shit.

I've read testosterone does it, but not sure how scientific that was.

I've seen it myself though instructing people. Women don't have an ego about it and take right to it. Although very few of them get to the master shooting level (sub-moa with a rifle, shit like that). Although I imagine that's interest and not ability.

Jezrith
06-05-2008, 21:48
Those self-defense posters are hilarious.

My personal favorite:
"Protection could be in your hands now, or parked by the donut shop."
:lmao:

Tharkon Fargor
06-05-2008, 21:57
That video doesn't really take up the dangers with having a gun.

For example you might think it's okey to shoot a kid stealing some candy from your shop just becausey ou can't catch him that's sickening.

Or for example having a bit violent fight with your husband/wife and being drunk and shooting him/her.


And the whole thing about "being a prey" is a bit fucked.


But yeah, if you are a human being that can control yourself and think with your fucking brain then you should have a gun. If not, stay away from it.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uw_KZItjBEA&feature=related

Then again, that's the real sick shit. Shoot those copers.

III [C*D]
06-05-2008, 22:25
While you can never be 100% sure that you are 100% safe, usually people who think they need guns are typically people who draw the kind of attention that requires a gun for their safety.

Get an education or a job so that you can afford to live in a safer area, get a good security system and some dogs to watch the lawn... Sure, you could spend 50 bucks for a hand gun and bullets because you live in Compton California, or you could just not be a loser and move.

I honestly can't remember the last time I read about how somebody saved their family because they had a gun.

Anybody who owns a gun will face the consequences of doing so, it's not a matter of if, but when.

To really drive the point home, how dumb would you feel if you shot a home invader, got sent to prison for murder and while you in their another home intruder kills your family. Good thing you had a gun.

The fact is, if somebody is sneaky enough no weapon on the face of the planet is going to save you.

SSguy
06-05-2008, 22:27
That was so scary...I think I've changed my mind from pepper spray to a gun.

You're a blond, you'd wind up holding it backwards or something.

Suitepee
06-05-2008, 22:29
I'd post something about preventing guns from being circulated instead of giving guns to more people that could end up potential intruders themselves one day w/ guns. And that there's always OTHER weapons as alternatives for defense. (tazers?)

But then Matriel would go on about 'guns=safety' for another 1k to his post count so I'll just say nothing. :p

Death's Chill
06-05-2008, 22:29
That's an example of how having a gun could go well.
There are others.

Anyway, I'm not against the right to carry a gun, I simply wish you'd have to at least be instructed in it's use or something before being allowed to carry it.

The problem is that letting the government control and regulate guns, even if it isn't an outright ban, is very dangerous territory to be treading.

SSguy
06-05-2008, 22:31
I'd post something about preventing guns from being circulated instead of giving guns to more people that could end up potential intruders themselves one day w/ guns. And that there's always OTHER weapons as alternatives for defense. (tazers?)

But then Matriel would go on about 'guns=safety' for another 1k to his post count so I'll just say nothing. :p

You'll say nothing because you are WRONG, and he is RIGHT.

Lets see how well the knife ban in the UK goes huh?

III [C*D]
06-05-2008, 22:33
I'd post something about preventing guns from being circulated instead of giving guns to more people that could end up potential intruders themselves one day w/ guns. And that there's always OTHER weapons as alternatives for defense. (tazers?)

But then Matriel would go on about 'guns=safety' for another 1k to his post count so I'll just say nothing. :p

One day common logic will allow humans to crawl out of their hole and decide that we really don't need guns... or enough nuclear weapons to blow up our planet a few times over.

American needs nukes. Nukes = safety. amirite?

Nukes = safety for about 45 minutes until the enemies nukes are blowing up ever your head. GG!

I like how humanities answer to violence is to threaten with more violence.

Suitepee
06-05-2008, 22:35
You'll say nothing because you are WRONG, and he is RIGHT.

Lets see how well the knife ban in the UK goes huh?

No. I don't approve of civilians carrying guns around. It's just a petty way of justifying "oh criminals have guns,let's have guns too!" as opposed to "well why don't we stop guns falling into criminal hands so damn easily and thus I don't feel the need to have a gun myself!"

And not very,probably. We have our own problems with anti-social yobs,but at least they don't have easily acquired firearms to play around with.


;1384208']I like how humanities answer to violence is to threaten with more violence.

QFT!

/inc Matriel.

Jezrith
06-05-2008, 22:35
;1384208']
Nukes = safety for about 45 minutes until the enemies nukes are blowing up ever your head. GG!


Actually nukes = safety for about half the planet for 50 years or so, L2History...


I like how humanities answer to violence is to threaten with more violence.

The minute every human being on this planet stop being violent, is the minute you will have a point. Until then, welcome back to reality.

Matriel
06-05-2008, 22:40
That video doesn't really take up the dangers with having a gun.

For example you might think it's okey to shoot a kid stealing some candy from your shop just becausey ou can't catch him that's sickening.

Or for example having a bit violent fight with your husband/wife and being drunk and shooting him/her.


And the whole thing about "being a prey" is a bit fucked.


But yeah, if you are a human being that can control yourself and think with your fucking brain then you should have a gun. If not, stay away from it.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uw_KZItjBEA&feature=related

Then again, that's the real sick shit. Shoot those copers.

Your post is based off of bullshit, not reality. 49 states do not allow deadly force in defense of property and the one that does is heavily restricted. People just can't shoot children over broken windows in America. That is murder.

The crimes of passion argument has been refuted damn near countless times by criminologists that state that they occur regardless of any tools available.


;1384184']While you can never be 100% sure that you are 100% safe, usually people who think they need guns are typically people who draw the kind of attention that requires a gun for their safety.

Get an education or a job so that you can afford to live in a safer area, get a good security system and some dogs to watch the lawn... Sure, you could spend 50 bucks for a hand gun and bullets because you live in Compton California, or you could just not be a loser and move.

I honestly can't remember the last time I read about how somebody saved their family because they had a gun.

Anybody who owns a gun will face the consequences of doing so, it's not a matter of if, but when.

To really drive the point home, how dumb would you feel if you shot a home invader, got sent to prison for murder and while you in their another home intruder kills your family. Good thing you had a gun.

The fact is, if somebody is sneaky enough no weapon on the face of the planet is going to save you.

I find this hilarious as I own a gun, live in a safer state than you do, and do rather well for myself. You've absolutely typecasted a diverse group into a pigeon hole that hardly none of it fits in. Granted you're from California, but time for you to get with reality.


I'd post something about preventing guns from being circulated instead of giving guns to more people that could end up potential intruders themselves one day w/ guns. And that there's always OTHER weapons as alternatives for defense. (tazers?)

But then Matriel would go on about 'guns=safety' for another 1k to his post count so I'll just say nothing. :p

I suppose shutting up instead of being wrong is an improvement. :)

III [C*D]
06-05-2008, 22:40
Actually nukes = safety for about half the planet for 50 years or so, L2History...



The minute every human being on this planet stop being violent, is the minute you will have a point. Until, welcome back to reality.

Yes, I feel very safe knowing that at any moment a couple thousand nukes will give me a permanent orange afro. 50 years a drop in the bucket compared to how long it would take for the cockroaches to evolve into the new "master animal."

Wow, its like a warm blanket really.

Violence is a choice.

Matriel
06-05-2008, 22:41
Hahah, serious lol at morons suggesting that tools are the reasons we have violence. Dumbest shit I might have ever read on these forums.

Ragnika
06-05-2008, 22:43
;1384223']Violence is a choice.

Here we go...

...but being attacked isn't. Not everybody can just pack up and move. Not everybody wants to either, nor shall they be forced to because a few criminals decide to start taking property and lives instead of obeying the law like the rest of society.

Jezrith
06-05-2008, 22:48
;1384223']Yes, I feel very safe knowing that at any moment a couple thousand nukes will give me a permanent orange afro. 50 years a drop in the bucket compared to how long it would take for the cockroaches to evolve into the new "master animal."


You don't even have a clue as to what I am talking about do you?



Violence is a choice.


Not if it is forced on you by someone else. Does the term initiatory violence mean anything? Or, have you been so completely emasculated that you believe all forms of violence are wrong.

III [C*D]
06-05-2008, 22:51
I find this hilarious as I own a gun, live in a safer state than you do, and do rather well for myself. You've absolutely typecasted a diverse group into a pigeon hole that hardly none of it fits in. Granted you're from California, but time for you to get with reality.


I own kitchen knives, I never had to use them to fight off an intruder, but sense they are used daily for the specific purpose then yes it would be stupid to say that I couldn't own kitchen knives.

What possible use could you have for a gun if you live a "safer state" then I do? If that is the case, then you're the prime example who absolutely shouldn't own a gun because A. you just said you don't need it, and B. because it won't likely be used for the purpose who are fighting for "self defense" it incidentally be used accidentally by somebody around to shoot themselves.

I'm pretty sure we haven't had the need to form a militia, and our country does a pretty decent job (relatively speaking) of keeping us safe. The 2nd amendment was put in place specifically because the U.S's infrastructure wasn't able to suitably protect its citizens, and we we're constantly forming militias with armed citizens to fight off foreign invaders.

How does any of that apply now? All regions have suitable law enforcement and America definitively has a "big enough" army.

If it's a matter of sporting, why couldn't they just have the guns for "rent" wherever you were going to hunt?

Thrill_KIll
06-05-2008, 22:55
;1384261']I own kitchen knives, I never had to use them to fight off an intruder, but sense they are used daily for the specific purpose then yes it would be stupid to say that I couldn't own kitchen knives.

What possible use could you have for a gun if you live a "safer state" then I do? If that is the case, then you're the prime example who absolutely shouldn't own a gun because A. you just said you don't need it, and B. because it won't likely be used for the purpose who are fighting for "self defense" it incidentally be used accidentally by somebody around to shoot themselves.

I'm pretty sure we haven't had the need to form a militia, and our country does a pretty decent job (relatively speaking) of keeping us safe. The 2nd amendment was put in place specifically because the U.S's infrastructure wasn't able to suitably protect its citizens, and we we're constantly forming militias with armed citizens to fight off foreign invaders.

How does any of that apply now? All regions have suitable law enforcement and America definitively has a "big enough" army.

If it's a matter of sporting, why couldn't they just have the guns for "rent" wherever you were going to hunt?


Since you are a mental midget, I chose a elementary commentary for you to digest:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GNu7ldL1LM

Tharkon Fargor
06-05-2008, 22:56
Your post is based off of bullshit, not reality. 49 states do not allow deadly force in defense of property and the one that does is heavily restricted. People just can't shoot children over broken windows in America. That is murder.

The crimes of passion argument has been refuted damn near countless times by criminologists that state that they occur regardless of any tools available.


Yeah man that's what I'm saying. If you got some brains and can follow some common laws that exist and not shoot shoplifting kids or your husband when you're drunk then you should own a gun, hell yeah!

Lotharr
06-05-2008, 22:56
Looked at the video without sound.

Funny posters.

Bissen
06-05-2008, 22:58
Shoot the bastard at the door allready you bitch!

Jezrith
06-05-2008, 23:02
Since you are a mental midget, I chose a elementary commentary for you to digest:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GNu7ldL1LM

You just had to go and bring up how sentence structure and words actually mean things, didn't you! You bastard!

Ammon777
06-05-2008, 23:03
Girls + guns = hawt

SSguy
06-05-2008, 23:06
;1384208']One day common logic will allow humans to crawl out of their hole and decide that we really don't need guns... or enough nuclear weapons to blow up our planet a few times over.

American needs nukes. Nukes = safety. amirite?

Nukes = safety for about 45 minutes until the enemies nukes are blowing up ever your head. GG!

I like how humanities answer to violence is to threaten with more violence.

Ok....country A has nuclear missiles.......country A gets an insane leader like hitler up there due to human stupidity........

What does country A do with those nukes???

Nuke country B and laugh as they have absolutely no way of retaliating.
Nuke country C which has twice as many nukes as us and will launch them immediately?

Its great how you feel safe with absolutely no means of protecting yourself when some insane tart acquires the means to destroy you.

Its not about having nukes at all, there will always be some mass destruction weapon, regardless of whatever lala land you want to live in, there is always someone striving for power, which includes power over you.

So its either have no means of fightin back, or having equal means of fighting back.

One of the many problems violence solves.....is violence itself.

Your no guns solution does not work, the UK is living proof of it. Their knife crimes are skyrocketing ever since they banned guns......

Ban knives? Then lead pipe crimes or random bludgeon object crimes will skyrocket.

People will do evil regardless. Take away guns, we use knives, take away knifes, we use pipes, whips, chains, hell we will even use bricks.

Violence did not begin when guns were created.



No. I don't approve of civilians carrying guns around. It's just a petty way of justifying "oh criminals have guns,let's have guns too!" as opposed to "well why don't we stop guns falling into criminal hands so damn easily and thus I don't feel the need to have a gun myself!"

And not very,probably. We have our own problems with anti-social yobs,but at least they don't have easily acquired firearms to play around with.


So hows the stop guns from falling into criminal hands working out for the U.K???? Its working out real great....now they use knives..... Its great being mugged and stabbed to death right?

You are arguing against statistics, which is not an argument you can win.


;1384223']Yes, I feel very safe knowing that at any moment a couple thousand nukes will give me a permanent orange afro. 50 years a drop in the bucket compared to how long it would take for the cockroaches to evolve into the new "master animal."

Wow, its like a warm blanket really.

Violence is a choice.

You are right, but put more context into it.

Someone choose to be violent against someone else...
Now, that someone else has a choice to be violent.....or bend over and take it.

You see, many of us do not like the idea of bending over. Maybe you have some sick turn on from being victimized and put in a helpless situation, but we do not.

Thrill_KIll
06-05-2008, 23:06
You just had to go and bring up how sentence structure and words actually mean things, didn't you! You bastard!


ROFL

What was it that Senator Byrd said once....something like, "Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts."

People who are so gung-ho on gun control would do well to understand that concept. And III[C*D] was in need of a lesson in American history before he fucked it up worse to fit his "ideals".

Jezrith
06-05-2008, 23:13
Girls + guns = hawt


mmmmm-hmmmmm ('http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6k-XJHiShB0')

dhmacdonell
06-05-2008, 23:17
Women do tend to make better marksmen. I read something about the way their brains work allows them to be more relaxed or some shit.


The problem with women trying to use any BJJ is they lack the physical strength to overpower a male for any of the locks, or even to choke them out. But like you, I taught my kids what I call "caveman tactics". The eyes, grab an ear and pull (only takes 7 pounds of pressure to remove an ear), bite a plug out of them, shit like that.

Relaxed? not sure about that. I'd say women are more skittish and nervous around guns actually. My experience has been that psychologically speaking they have no bad habits to correct or preconceived notions on how a fire arm is to be handled. Physiologically speaking they rarely over grip (which causes shaking/trembling due to strain), again you're not teaching over bad habits, and breathing control maybe they associate to Lamaze lol...

Not sure about the 7lbs thing, pretty sure that's myth, my physical therapist has been using this suspension device to pull back on my head with 20lbs of pressure (for a bulging disc in my neck) and it slipped back and caught an ear one day... although it hurt like a bitch it didn't rip my ear off. Plus, with the added inertia the device gained by slipping from my jawline and accelerating the impact on the ear would have resulted in much higher pressure than 20lbs.

When you yank down on something forcefully, you can exert as much as 100lbs or more of downward force... impact or jerking force always has a greater impact than simply pulling or pushing.

Think about when you use a torque wrench... you ease a torque wrench in a smooth motion to get it to the desired poundage. however to remove a bolt/nut from something you typically have to use a quick thrust/pull to break the bolt loose... because in order to overcome the coefficient of friction between the bolt threads and the surface threads it requires much more pressure.

humans can bite at about 150 psi
357 magnum 40,000 psi.
a golf ball hit from 30 yds away will impact you at about 400 psi.
gripping strength of human about 50 psi
gripping strength of a bald eagle - about 400 psi

1700 pounds of pressure to break a femur (thigh bone is the strongest)
1400 will crush a skull...

top martial artists kick at about 2000 psi... ish

I would put ripping an ear off at about 75-80psi prob... considering you can easily bite through one, yet i think it would be hard to tear it with just gripping strength (and even allocation of that over a square IN of EAR) lol

Beeblebrox
06-05-2008, 23:17
I don't need a gun, I know budjitsu.

III [C*D]
06-05-2008, 23:17
You don't even have a clue as to what I am talking about do you?



Not if it is forced on you by someone else. Does the term initiatory violence mean anything? Or, have you been so completely emasculated that you believe all forms of violence are wrong.

Even if you are attacked, you still have the choice to respond non-violently. It's not just an automated reaction. Is it the smartest thing to do? Probably not, but what about a female who submits to rape and ends up saving her own life?

The problem with this whole notion that you need to own a gun to be safe boils down to the mentality that you feel you will even be in a posistion to protect yourself with a firearm. This is mind boggling considering a few simple facts. If your practicing good firearm safety and have your guns locked up (and not under your pillow like some pyscho) then what are the chances that you will be aware enough to get the gun out of a locked case, load it and be ready to defend yourself before an intruder is jamming a knife into your neck.

I have many law enforcement family members, and when my brother-in-law became a sheriff this was a a hot topic.. should he carry he is gun with him when he is off duty? His dad, Long Beach S.W.A.T and an LT at the department made the most valid argument against him carrying his gun off duty that I've ever heard. In short he said "all you are doing when you carry your gun off duty is put the lives of people in bad situations at further risk, you adding fire power to fuel. Not only that, you will not be recognized as a law enforcement person, so you putting your life at an increased risk. The best thing to do is stand by and be a professional witness, and intervene when it will not endanger the lives of others."

Guns are not necessary to keep a home safe. I'm sorry, but if you feel the need to live in a bad neighborhood then you are stubborn and I have no pity for you. If your families safety is less important then your selfish need to own a gun, then you're a fool.

Again, if you truly value your safety, or the safety of your loved ones then get off your ass and move your family out of danger.

III [C*D]
06-05-2008, 23:19
Yeah man that's what I'm saying. If you got some brains and can follow some common laws that exist and not shoot shoplifting kids or your husband when you're drunk then you should own a gun, hell yeah!

Nobody is perfect enough to fit your criteria. Therefore nobody should own a gun... unless your suggesting that people who advocate the right to bear arms are all perfect little citizens who never get drunk, or make mistakes.

I prefer erasing the problem all together rather then leaving it up to chance.

FraBaktos
06-05-2008, 23:20
Women do tend to make better marksmen. I read something about the way their brains work allows them to be more relaxed or some shit.


The problem with women trying to use any BJJ is they lack the physical strength to overpower a male for any of the locks, or even to choke them out. But like you, I taught my kids what I call "caveman tactics". The eyes, grab an ear and pull (only takes 7 pounds of pressure to remove an ear), bite a plug out of them, shit like that.
I would probably use similar 'caveman' tactics if I got jumped, I am a man but I'm not a big guy and fuck, I'm not letting somebody take my $250 ipod and $150 headphones that I take around with me everywhere. I've been thinking about it lately, almost been jumped a few times. Drunk groups of pissed off looking guys yelling at me asking if I have money, lol.

Thrill_KIll
06-05-2008, 23:20
;1384184']I honestly can't remember the last time I read about how somebody saved their family because they had a gun.



www.google.com

When you se that MORE crimes are prevented with guns, than those that are comitted with them, come back and holler.

Thrill_KIll
06-05-2008, 23:25
Relaxed? not sure about that. I'd say women are more skittish and nervous around guns actually. My experience has been that psychologically speaking they have no bad habits to correct or preconceived notions on how a fire arm is to be handled. Physiologically speaking they rarely over grip (which causes shaking/trembling due to strain), again you're not teaching over bad habits, and breathing control maybe they associate to Lamaze lol...

Not sure about the 7lbs thing, pretty sure that's myth, my physical therapist has been using this suspension device to pull back on my head with 20lbs of pressure (for a bulging disc in my neck) and it slipped back and caught an ear one day... although it hurt like a bitch it didn't rip my ear off. Plus, with the added inertia the device gained by slipping from my jawline and accelerating the impact on the ear would have resulted in much higher pressure than 20lbs.

When you yank down on something forcefully, you can exert as much as 100lbs or more of downward force... impact or jerking force always has a greater impact than simply pulling or pushing.

Think about when you use a torque wrench... you ease a torque wrench in a smooth motion to get it to the desired poundage. however to remove a bolt/nut from something you typically have to use a quick thrust/pull to break the bolt loose... because in order to overcome the coefficient of friction between the bolt threads and the surface threads it requires much more pressure.

humans can bite at about 150 psi
357 magnum 40,000 psi.
a golf ball hit from 30 yds away will impact you at about 400 psi.
gripping strength of human about 50 psi
gripping strength of a bald eagle - about 400 psi

1700 pounds of pressure to break a femur (thigh bone is the strongest)
1400 will crush a skull...

top martial artists kick at about 2000 psi... ish

I would put ripping an ear off at about 75-80psi prob... considering you can easily bite through one, yet i think it would be hard to tear it with just gripping strength (and even allocation of that over a square IN of EAR) lol


The ear is only held on by flesh bro. And I can assure you, nothing will stop a fight quicker, than showing the guy who thinks he has you his own ear. That, or biting a full mouth full plug out of him, and spitting it in his face.

III [C*D]
06-05-2008, 23:26
www.google.com

When you se that MORE crimes are prevented with guns, than those that are comitted with them, come back and holler.

Ummm... 99% statistics can be made to say anything, 50% of the time.

I prefer to just go with common sense. Oh I'm sure it happens, but I'd rather all my kids die natural deaths to accidentally shoot themselves because 1 time out of a thousand I forgot to lock the gun up.

As far as nukes go, Albert Einstien said it best (sense you seem to think there can actually be a "winner" if we go to nuclear war.)

"I know not of the weapons that will be used in WWIII, but I know for certain the weapons of WWIV will be sticks and stones."

I'm sorry, but this whole egotistical non-sense about how having a gun magically makes me safe, or that a global nuclear dis-arm isn't possible... well it's just sad really.

It's funny though that I've managed to protect my family and myself without ever using a gun, yet you people insist that it is impossible to do so without.

I guess I imagined it?

III [C*D]
06-05-2008, 23:29
The ear is only held on by flesh bro. And I can assure you, nothing will stop a fight quicker, than showing the guy who thinks he has you his own ear. That, or biting a full mouth full plug out of him, and spitting it in his face.

I do find it hilarious that I'm arguing with somebody about the simple way of not needing a gun is to avoid violence all together when you think its cool to talk about ripping people's ears off.

Are you a former blood diamond miner, do you live in some war torn country where these skills are necessary for survival?

Need to learn how to fight because you keep getting your ass kicked at bars? Stop going to bars. Need to learn how to shoot because you live in a bad neighborhood and your afraid of a home intruder, move.

It's called thinking outside the box, its nifty really.

Edit: Typing is hard after you just signed up a rock climbing gym =\=\

Khumash-Gor
06-05-2008, 23:41
I think im going to buy my gf a gun so we can go shooting together, and its just a good idea to have one around.

whats a good model for a girl?

Kheiron
06-05-2008, 23:46
Seems to me she would have been perfectly safe with security mesh doors and windows, or even some good ol' mace or a taser.

You want to give a chick some safety advice you dont need to mention guns.

Firstly, secure your home. Those security meshes are best because steel bars look ugly. Put a pair of big muddy work boots and a large dog bowl with a name like 'Ripper' or 'Tiny' on it at your front door. The best defense against a home invasion is disuading the criminal from even trying it.

Get to know your neighbours and keep an eye out for each other. If you see a dude skulking around thier home one night, be sure to tell them and dont worry about calling the police on thier behalf if you think they might be in danger.

Buy a cordless phone for the living room, and have a phone in your bedroom. Stick in a good sturdy door, hardwood ones look great, and put a good lock on it. You can stop short of a panic room, but it's a good idea to have a second line of defense.

Lastly, it would be seeking the final line of defense by learning self defense and buying something up to a taser. There are no second chances with guns and even if you do only shoot the bad guys the psychological trauma you inflict on yourself doesn't seem worth it when a less then lethal option is possible. If you feel like killing people, hope the dude has a heart problem and your tazer sends him tachy.

Owning a gun wont magically make you safe, and if I recall correctly, 30% of gun victims are shot with thier own weapon. Following these simple steps is the best way to keep you and your home safe.

Thrill_KIll
06-05-2008, 23:47
;1384343']Ummm... 99% statistics can be made to say anything, 50% of the time.

Documented acts of attempted crimes stopped by a homeowner using a legal firearm can be made up? You really need to just quit, because yo just flat out want to refuse to acknowledge facts because you don't like them.


;1384343']I prefer to just go with common sense. Oh I'm sure it happens, but I'd rather all my kids die natural deaths to accidentally shoot themselves because 1 time out of a thousand I forgot to lock the gun up.

I agree. That's why my children know how to handle a firearm, and know they are not toys. The kids that do stupid shit with guns are the ones who don't know anything about them because their parents or guardians FAILED them. My children also understand the reason the Bill of Rights gives the freedom to bear arms, one which you have already demonstrated you have no clue about.


;1384343']I'm sorry, but this whole egotistical non-sense about how having a gun magically makes me safe, or that a global nuclear dis-arm isn't possible... well it's just sad really.

It's funny though that I've managed to protect my family and myself without ever using a gun, yet you people insist that it is impossible to do so without.

I guess I imagined it?

What's funny is that you have zero clue about what you are talking about. Please look at every major American cities crime rates that banned guns. Then compare them to cities where gun ownership is high. I know it will hurt your head, but the more guns...the less crime. Every mass shooting we have had (Columbine, VT, post offices,ect.) happened in a gun free zone. Meaning, it is illegal to have a firearm there. Why don't these killers go to the local gun show to commit their crimes?

Besides that, and more importantly, it is our right. Now, while you may find it ok to shit on American rights, I do not.



;1384343']I do find it hilarious that I'm arguing with somebody about the simple way of not needing a gun is to avoid violence all together when you think its cool to talk about ripping people's ears off.

Are you a former blood diamond miner, do you live in some war torn country where these skills are necessary for survival?

Who said I thought it was cool? I said only a fool would think a woman can take some martial art classes, and be able to physically beat a man. I said a few things I taught my children in regards to getting a much stronger or larger attacker off of you. Unlike you apprently, I am trying to make sure my children don't become stats of some random asshole, and at least have a chance at protecting themselves should the need arise. It has nothing to do with paranoia, just simply doign the best I can as a parent to make sure my kids understand respect for other people, and that when someone tries to hurt you...they lose their right to that respect.


;1384343']Need to learn how to fight because you keep getting your ass kicked at bars? Stop going to bars. Need to learn how to shoot because you live in a bad neighborhood and your afraid of a home intruder, move.

It's called thinking outside the box, its nifty really.

ROFL

I love your defeatist attitude. If people come into your neighborhood, and start threatening you all to move, just leave. Are you French?

dhmacdonell
06-05-2008, 23:54
I'm sick of guns, I've got an M9, 8shot Mossberg 590A1, AND an M-4... I'm a gunner (m2 .50cal) so on mission i have to take all 3 of those and lug around the 50cal... pretty retarded. The plus side of it is... on post i can lock up 2 personal weapons and just carry the pistol or the shotty... i usually let my roommie carry the shotgun though in lieu of his SAW. Anyone want'em? I'm 99% positive feedback on Ebay. ;) thats just the shit i carry for the military... my personal weapons at home are very signature of someone who lives in Arkansas ;)

III [C*D]
06-05-2008, 23:54
Documented acts of attempted crimes stopped by a homeowner using a legal firearm can be made up? You really need to just quit, because yo just flat out want to refuse to acknowledge facts because you don't like them.



I agree. That's why my children know how to handle a firearm, and know they are not toys. The kids that do stupid shit with guns are the ones who don't know anything about them because their parents or guardians FAILED them. My children also understand the reason the Bill of Rights gives the freedom to bear arms, one which you have already demonstrated you have no clue about.



What's funny is that you have zero clue about what you are talking about. Please look at every major American cities crime rates that banned guns. Then compare them to cities where gun ownership is high. I know it will hurt your head, but the more guns...the less crime. Every mass shooting we have had (Columbine, VT, post offices,ect.) happened in a gun free zone. Meaning, it is illegal to have a firearm there. Why don't these killers go to the local gun show to commit their crimes?

Besides that, and more importantly, it is our right. Now, while you may find it ok to shit on American rights, I do not.




Who said I thought it was cool? I said only a fool would think a woman can take some martial art classes, and be able to physically beat a man. I said a few things I taught my children in regards to getting a much stronger or larger attacker off of you. Unlike you apprently, I am trying to make sure my children don't become stats of some random asshole, and at least have a chance at protecting themselves should the need arise. It has nothing to do with paranoia, just simply doign the best I can as a parent to make sure my kids understand respect for other people, and that when someone tries to hurt you...they lose their right to that respect.



ROFL

I love your defeatist attitude. If people come into your neighborhood, and start threatening you all to move, just leave. Are you French?

I'm sorry, where does this happen in America? I am 27 and I have never seen this happen once.

I think you've been watching too much T.V. bud.

If you're that worried about your childen being attacked, maybe it's time to move out of this awful place that you live? A home is just a home, land is just land. It's not defeatist its common sense, even more so when your talking about "ownership" more then likely the bank owns your house, so what do you really own?

Just because I'm man enough to avoid violence, and avidly protect my children doesn't make me a coward, if it saves lives it practically makes me a hero. If somebody gets onto my property, manages to get passed the dogs, and then manages to get through the mesh door without waking me before I can call the cops, or at least arm myself with something non-lethal to stop them.. then they deserve to win. Even if I have a gun, what if they do to? Now its a pure matter of chance that I can shoot them before they shoot me.

You seem so determined to arm yourself and your family that I have to wonder if it's not your own stubborn pride that is keeping your family so near to danger that would need to be armed.

I'll tell you what, when we're living in the Red Dawn scenario and I need to help defend the country against the ruskies and south americans, I'll be the first one to sign up for the fight. When you're talking about training your kids how to shoot and rip people's ears off, it rings of paranoia, not practicality.

The only statistic I need to see is the one posted above, about how 30% of gun deaths are self inflicted. As far as I'm concerned, 1% is to many.

Edit: Please cite specific examples where the "bad guys" moved into the "good guys" neighborhood and the "good guys" used guns and MMA training to drive off the "bad guys."

Seriously think about how stupid you sound by saying that is the reason you need to own a gun.

Jezrith
06-06-2008, 00:03
;1384324']Even if you are attacked, you still have the choice to respond non-violently. It's not just an automated reaction. Is it the smartest thing to do?


It does not matter what you choose do, if some decides to commit violence against you, you are participating in violence, it has been forced upon you, you have no choice. What you do have the choice of is protecting yourself and those you love, or submitting to being a victim. But the violence is going to occur regardless of what you choose to do.



Probably not, but what about a female who submits to rape and ends up saving her own life?


What about the women who does not submit to rape, kills the guy and ends up saving her own life. I'd rather my mother, sisters and other female loved ones do that instead.

"No baby, you don't need to protect yourself. Just let the aids infested crack head rape your ass as much as he wants! You'll still be alive, well hopefully. I mean unless he decides to just cut your throat so you can't identify him, you'll still be alive. After all, just because he is anally raping you it doesn't mean that he is a scumbag who doesn't care about your well being, right?"

You must really love the women in your family don't you. :rolleyes:



The problem with this whole notion that you need to own a gun to be safe boils down to the mentality that you feel you will even be in a posistion to protect yourself with a firearm.


I am more likely to get to a gun to defend myself if I have one anywhere in the house, than I am if I don't have one at all.



This is mind boggling considering a few simple facts.


What's mind boggling are the things you consider "facts".



If your practicing good firearm safety and have your guns locked up (and not under your pillow like some pyscho) then what are the chances that you will be aware enough to get the gun out of a locked case, load it and be ready to defend yourself before an intruder is jamming a knife into your neck.


The four tenants of firearm safety:

1- Treat ever firearm as if it was loaded at all times
2- Never point your firearm at anything you do not intend to shoot
3- Always be aware of the objects surrounding your target
4- Never place your finger on the trigger until you are ready to shoot

Notice the complete lack of "store your firearms in a locked location"? You know why it isn't there? Because storing your firearms in a locked location has nothing to do with firearm safety.



I have many law enforcement family members, and when my brother-in-law became a sheriff this was a a hot topic.. should he carry he is gun with him when he is off duty? His dad, Long Beach S.W.A.T and an LT at the department made the most valid argument against him carrying his gun off duty that I've ever heard. In short he said "all you are doing when you carry your gun off duty is put the lives of people in bad situations at further risk, you adding fire power to fuel.


Wow, an officer of the Soviet Republic of Kalfornia only in favor of on-duty officers carrying firearms! I am jack's complete lack of surprise...

My father, two cousins, one uncle and brother-in law are all law enforcement officers, they would say your brother-in law's dad is full of shit. Does this guy think that being on duty somehow automagically confers special powers on him that some how makes his presence in situation any different than if he were off duty?



Not only that, you will not be recognized as a law enforcement person, so you putting your life at an increased risk.


Considering that the vast majority of incidents where a citizen protects himself with his own firearm are completely over by the time officers arrive on the scene, I am not worried about that in the slightest. When they do arrive on the scene you comply with the orders they give you and every thing is peachy.



The best thing to do is stand by and be a professional witness, and intervene when it will not endanger the lives of others."


The best thing to do is to remove the threat of danger from those around you. A law abiding citizen who is armed is only a threat to a purpose who is trying to harm them or someone else.



Guns are not necessary to keep a home safe. I'm sorry, but if you feel the need to live in a bad neighborhood then you are stubborn and I have no pity for you.


I bet my home with a gun, is safer than your home without one.



If your families safety is less important then your selfish need to own a gun, then you're a fool.


My families safety would be the primary reason to own a firearm.



Again, if you truly value your safety, or the safety of your loved ones then get off your ass and move your family out of danger.


Crimes happen all over the place, what do you think you have some sort of "crime fence" that makes them stop happening where you live?


;1384343']
I'm sorry, but this whole egotistical non-sense about how having a gun magically makes me safe, or that a global nuclear dis-arm isn't possible... well it's just sad really.


Its called mutually assured destruction, look it up. I would suggest you start with its application to the Cuban missile crisis.


;1384343']
It's funny though that I've managed to protect my family and myself without ever using a gun, yet you people insist that it is impossible to do so without.


I seriously doubt you have ever been in any situation where you had to protect anything from anyone in your entire life. People who have aren't so quick to dismiss the usefulness of guns in accomplishing such a task.

III [C*D]
06-06-2008, 00:08
It does not matter what you choose do, if some decides to commit violence against you, you are participating in violence, it has been forced upon you, you have no choice. What you do have the choice of is protecting yourself and those you love, or submitting to being a victim. But the violence is going to occur regardless of what you choose to do.



What about the women who does not submit to rape, kills the guy and ends up saving her own life. I'd rather my mother, sisters and other female loved ones do that instead.

"No baby, you don't need to protect yourself. Just let the aids infested crack head rape your ass as much as he wants! You'll still be alive, well hopefully. I mean unless he decides to just cut your throat so you can't identify him, you'll still be alive. After all, just because he is anally raping you it doesn't mean that he is a scumbag who doesn't care about your well being, right?"

You must really love the women in your family don't you. :rolleyes:



I am more likely to get to a gun to defend myself if I have one anywhere in the house, than I am if I don't have one at all.



What's mind boggling are the things you consider "facts".



The four tenants of firearm safety:

1- Treat ever firearm as if it was loaded at all times
2- Never point your firearm at anything you do not intend to shoot
3- Always be aware of the objects surrounding your target
4- Never place your finger on the trigger until you are ready to shoot

Notice the complete lack of "store your firearms in a locked location"? You know why it isn't there? Because storing your firearms in a locked location has nothing to do with firearm safety.



Wow, an officer of the Soviet Republic of Kalfornia only in favor of on-duty officers carrying firearms! I am jack's complete lack of surprise...

My father, two cousins, one uncle and brother-in law are all law enforcement officers, they would say your brother-in law's dad is full of shit. Does this guy think that being on duty somehow automagically confers special powers on him that some how makes his presence in situation any different than if he were off duty?



Considering that the vast majority of incidents where a citizen protects himself with his own firearm are completely over by the time officers arrive on the scene, I am not worried about that in the slightest. When they do arrive on the scene you comply with the orders they give you and every thing is peachy.



The best thing to do is to remove the threat of danger from those around you. A law abiding citizen who is armed is only a threat to a purpose who is trying to harm them or someone else.



I bet my home with a gun, is safer than your home without one.



My families safety would be the primary reason to own a firearm.



Crimes happen all over the place, what do you think you have some sort of "crime fence" that makes them stop happening where you live?

Sorry if I don't read your post, I don't really feel the need to read your paranoid delusions about how you think you are un-safe and need a gun to protect yourself.

I feel sorry for you and your family.

Okay I couldn't help I read some, cut and pasting the rantings off the NRA website doesn't make you right, it makes you a ranter just like they are.

Scully
06-06-2008, 00:08
Good thing we don't need guns in Norway :)

Jezrith
06-06-2008, 00:11
;1384411']Sorry if I don't read your post, I don't really feel the need to read your paranoid delusions about how you think you are un-safe and need a gun to protect yourself.

I feel sorry for you and your family.

A.K.A. -


;1384411']I just got owned, so I'll throw out a one liner then scurry off back to my hole.


Thanks for the entertainment though, it was fun spanking the shit out of your arguments.

III [C*D]
06-06-2008, 00:11
Good thing we don't need guns in Norway :)

No dude you need a gun because you are in serious danger... go buy one right now!

III [C*D]
06-06-2008, 00:14
A.K.A. -

lol, yep you sure did own me. For now on you will always be known as the guy who owns a gun because he lives in a war torn African country, knows how to rip peoples ears off and owned III in a pointless debate about gun control.

Translated - I win because I am not a paranoid stubborn idiot with kids that are likely going to become a statistic in favor of gun-control. In some backhanded way I guess I should thank you for being the prime example of why nobody should be allowed to own guns.

Jezrith
06-06-2008, 00:19
;1384423']lol, yep you sure did own me. For now on you will always be known as the guy who owns a gun because he lives in a war torn African country, knows how to rip peoples ears off and owned III in a pointless debate about gun control.


Remove the part about living in African, and you have summed it up pretty nicely.



Translated - I win because I am not a paranoid stubborn idiot with kids that are likely going to become a statistic in favor of gun-control. In some backhanded way I guess I should thank you for being the prime example of why nobody should be allowed to own guns.

No, you fail because you have an irrational fear of inanimate objects, you base your world view off this irrational fear and you are delusional enough to cling to this world view in spite of reality proving you wrong.

nwyrkr7642
06-06-2008, 00:34
;1384388']I'll tell you what, when we're living in the Red Dawn scenario and I need to help defend the country against the ruskies and south americans, I'll be the first one to sign up for the fight. When you're talking about training your kids how to shoot and rip people's ears off, it rings of paranoia, not practicality.

No matter where you live, anywhere, there is going to be violence. Because you and your family has been fortunate enough not to be hurt does not mean it doesn't happen. You don't NEED a gun to to stay safe, but you must be lieing to yourself if you don't think it couldn't help. Even if you don't own bullets a gun can make a house safer! If you are scared of your kids playing with your guns that is easily avoided, teach them and keep your guns in a safe location. I was taught from birth basic firearm safety, its really not hard and guns can be a blast if you use them correctly.

I am 15 and I currently have a Remington 700 .308 on layaway. I have no intention of ever using this against a human being. Gun shooting is a hobby my dad taught me and I intend to keep doing it my entire life. People who think they do not need guns shouldn't buy them, but don't ruin the fun for everyone else.

Matriel
06-06-2008, 00:43
;1384261']I own kitchen knives, I never had to use them to fight off an intruder, but sense they are used daily for the specific purpose then yes it would be stupid to say that I couldn't own kitchen knives.

You going to throw your fire extinguisher and smoke alarms out because your house has never caught fire then? Are you that retarded? It's called being prepared.


What possible use could you have for a gun if you live a "safer state" then I do? If that is the case, then you're the prime example who absolutely shouldn't own a gun because A. you just said you don't need it, and B. because it won't likely be used for the purpose who are fighting for "self defense" it incidentally be used accidentally by somebody around to shoot themselves.

It's obvious you don't understand what safer means in this context. Just because Kentucky is safer than California doesn't mean Kentucky is without violent crimes. It's the same as people making the ridiculous argument that their country has less murders so they don't need guns. It still has murders and thus people that need the ability to protect themselves.


I'm pretty sure we haven't had the need to form a militia, and our country does a pretty decent job (relatively speaking) of keeping us safe. The 2nd amendment was put in place specifically because the U.S's infrastructure wasn't able to suitably protect its citizens, and we we're constantly forming militias with armed citizens to fight off foreign invaders.

Actually it was put in place because private citizens had just kicked a fucking superpower out of their land because they owned arms. How quickly we forget what started the battles of Lexington and Concord (arms confiscation). Most of the Founding Fathers viewed standing armies with contempt.


How does any of that apply now? All regions have suitable law enforcement and America definitively has a "big enough" army.

You might have a point if law enforcement was required to protect you in this country. It is not as the Supreme Court found in Warren vs D.C.


If it's a matter of sporting, why couldn't they just have the guns for "rent" wherever you were going to hunt?

What a great fucking idea. Let people use unfamiliar weapons so they can make ethical kills on game animals. Look, I don't tell you how to be a beta male, so don't tell me how the fuck I should handle my guns. You know nothing about guns (obviously) and even less about the political argument surrounding them outside of your emotions and whatever the TV has told you to think.


I think im going to buy my gf a gun so we can go shooting together, and its just a good idea to have one around.

whats a good model for a girl?

Let her pick one out. She'll be more interested in it and it will fit her hand better.


I'm sick of guns, I've got an M9, 8shot Mossberg 590A1, AND an M-4... I'm a gunner (m2 .50cal) so on mission i have to take all 3 of those and lug around the 50cal... pretty retarded. The plus side of it is... on post i can lock up 2 personal weapons and just carry the pistol or the shotty... i usually let my roommie carry the shotgun though in lieu of his SAW. Anyone want'em? I'm 99% positive feedback on Ebay. ;) thats just the shit i carry for the military... my personal weapons at home are very signature of someone who lives in Arkansas ;)

Too bad ebay won't let you sell guns. Better try gunbroker. :p

Reikson
06-06-2008, 00:52
Probably not, but what about a female who submits to rape and ends up saving her own life?

wtf you would rather a woman get raped than carry a weapon?


edit: after reading more of your posts I have come to the conclusion that you should go to hell and your arguments sound like that of a 12 year old

Matriel
06-06-2008, 00:56
wtf you would rather a woman get raped than carry a weapon?


edit: after reading more of your posts I have come to the conclusion that you should go to hell and your arguments sound like that of a 12 year old

Reminds me of the debates they had a few years back where it was LaPierre from the NRA and some rapid Brady Bunch bitch. He pinned her in a corner and she actually said on television that she thought women should be raped before they be allowed to carry weapons to defend theirselves with.

It was pretty sad/hilarious.

Suitepee
06-06-2008, 01:06
So hows the stop guns from falling into criminal hands working out for the U.K???? Its working out real great....now they use knives..... Its great being mugged and stabbed to death right?

You are arguing against statistics, which is not an argument you can win.

I didn't say the UK was a bastion of good policing. But I'd rather it be knives than guns,and neither if possible.

So therefore it's ok for us UK civilians to walk around with knives for 'our protection' against the stabbers?
Oh hang on,no it's not,we have a bit more sense not to "fight fire with fire".

But whatever. I guess over in the US you have to have 'guns for protection' nowadays to feel safe. A sad state of affairs,but one you accept I suppose.
Just remember that the person who buys a gun today for defense,could tomorrow become drunk and shoot his family.

Thrill_KIll
06-06-2008, 01:06
;1384388']I'm sorry, where does this happen in America? I am 27 and I have never seen this happen once.

I think you've been watching too much T.V. bud.

I love how you keep going to these far extremes.

It is a fact that places with higher gun ownership per capita has lower crimes. Fact. it is a fact that places with guns being banned or ungodly restricted have higher crime rates. Fact.


I am 34, and have been all over the world and this country. I think you've spent to much time with your head up your fourth point of contact. Where I live is extremely safe, with very little crime. Where I live, we also have guns in pretty much every home. Like it or not, criminals tend to avoid places where they know they might walk into the business end of a .45. Again, crime statistics prove this. Interveiws with violent offenders confirm this.

And apparently, you refuse to see how your state's laws are working out for you:

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/cacrime.htm

I guess you'll be moving now, following your logic?




;1384388']If you're that worried about your childen being attacked, maybe it's time to move out of this awful place that you live? A home is just a home, land is just land. It's not defeatist its common sense, even more so when your talking about "ownership" more then likely the bank owns your house, so what do you really own?

I am not worried, just aware that shit happens sometimes. It is my job as a father to prepare my children for different possible things they may face in the world. I do plenty of other things for them that have nothing to do with violence I any shape or form. And letting someone take what you own and worked for is a defeatist attitude. By that logic, why fight the criminal element, and let them have neighborhoods. Hell, let them have whatever they want. That attitude and logic would be disatrous if everyone in America was that pussified.


;1384388']Just because I'm man enough to avoid violence, and avidly protect my children doesn't make me a coward, if it saves lives it practically makes me a hero. If somebody gets onto my property, manages to get passed the dogs, and then manages to get through the mesh door without waking me before I can call the cops, or at least arm myself with something non-lethal to stop them.. then they deserve to win. Even if I have a gun, what if they do to? Now its a pure matter of chance that I can shoot them before they shoot me.


Average response time for a 911 call is 8 to 30 mins. Also, if he does have a gun...at least your on equal footing if you yourself is armed as well. Not to mention, I can almost promise you that if you just shoot one time at the door he is trying to get through...he is going to haul ass. Criminals are not normally trained in urban combat and proficient at assaulting a house, and faced with the fact they are not messing with a "soft target" but instead an armed person....they will want no part of it.

Fuck you are brainwashed


;1384388']You seem so determined to arm yourself and your family that I have to wonder if it's not your own stubborn pride that is keeping your family so near to danger that would need to be armed.


Again, what the fuck are you talking about? My "stubborn pride" in regards to firearms deals with the reason we have the right to bear arms. The same reason our forefathers had when they wrote it. You keep staying away from that, and I'm going to just put a stop to it. It has nothing to do with fear, and everything to do with understanding. Understanding which you are woefully lacking.



;1384388']I'll tell you what, when we're living in the Red Dawn scenario and I need to help defend the country against the ruskies and south americans, I'll be the first one to sign up for the fight. When you're talking about training your kids how to shoot and rip people's ears off, it rings of paranoia, not practicality.

I don't worry about a scenario like that, because the world knows that America is an armed populace, and no one wants to fuck with that. And way to go to the extreme trying to hold onto your completely wrong and misguided point.


;1384388']The only statistic I need to see is the one posted above, about how 30% of gun deaths are self inflicted. As far as I'm concerned, 1% is to many.


In 2001, according to government survey evidence, there were about 450,000 crimes that were committed with guns. Of those, there were about 8,000 gun murders. But few probably realize that our best estimates indicate that last year Americans also used guns defensively, a little bit over 2 million times a year. Roughly ninety-five percent or so of the time, simply brandishing a gun was sufficient to stop an attack.

And as far as I'm concerned, I would imagine those 2 million would tell you to go get fucked.


http://www.rgj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080527/NEWS10/805270350/1321/NEWS


Villagomez then started walking toward the middle of the bar before suddenly collapsing to the floor. Hayes later found out that Villagomez was shot by a 48-year-old customer from Reno who was carrying a concealed handgun. Authorities declined to release the Reno man's name, only saying that the man had a valid permit to carry a concealed weapon. The man was released after authorities ruled the death a justifiable homicide.



Here is a HUGE Blog dedicated to nothing but the shit you swear never happens:

http://www.claytoncramer.com/gundefenseblog/blogger.html

Make a cup of coffee, because there is a TON of stories there.




;1384388']Edit: Please cite specific examples where the "bad guys" moved into the "good guys" neighborhood and the "good guys" used guns and MMA training to drive off the "bad guys."

Seriously think about how stupid you sound by saying that is the reason you need to own a gun.


Seriously, just think about how stupid you sound.

I do not train in MMA. That does not work at all in a real fight. The links above will give you more than enough "specific examples" of how blatantly brainwashed and wrong you are.

-Jotun
06-06-2008, 01:56
I'm sorry but to those of you who think that not owning a gun for self protection in your own house is absolutely absurd.

People are fucking nuts these days, I'd be more than happy to blow away the fucker that tries to strangle me in my sleep.

Even if I'd get charged (america has come to this, no doubt) I wouldn't care. At least I knew the scum wasn't alive and I was.

I've been victim to many thefts, and to give power to the hands of nutjobs versus power to the innocent with a lethal weapon should be a no-brainer as to which one you should choose.

Anyone who disagrees never had anything bad happen to them before anyway, so you're opinion doesn't count.

Matriel
06-06-2008, 02:04
Actually America is swinging towards pro self-defense at the state level. Ohio just passed its Castle Doctrine a day or two ago. Their governor is expected to sign in a few days. Latest victory in that battle.

Blind
06-06-2008, 02:49
;1384184']While you can never be 100% sure that you are 100% safe, usually people who think they need guns are typically people who draw the kind of attention that requires a gun for their safety.

Get an education or a job so that you can afford to live in a safer area, get a good security system and some dogs to watch the lawn... Sure, you could spend 50 bucks for a hand gun and bullets because you live in Compton California, or you could just not be a loser and move.

I honestly can't remember the last time I read about how somebody saved their family because they had a gun.

Anybody who owns a gun will face the consequences of doing so, it's not a matter of if, but when.

To really drive the point home, how dumb would you feel if you shot a home invader, got sent to prison for murder and while you in their another home intruder kills your family. Good thing you had a gun.

The fact is, if somebody is sneaky enough no weapon on the face of the planet is going to save you.


What everyone seems to be forgetting in this post is that the woman from the tape was being STALKED for a significant amount of time. She had previous encounters with this man, including break-ins.

In my opinion, she should have gone to stay with family or friends in a different city or state. But in all reality, it is a good possibility that this man would have followed her and continued to harass her. In that case, I think she did exactly what she needed to do... and saved her own life in the process.

As a mother, I do not think it wise to have guns in the home... but of course that is just my personal opinion. Would I normally have a gun in my home? No. Would I consider keeping one in the house if I was being stalked? Absolutely.

epicor
06-06-2008, 03:02
i was listening for the 3 shots and couldnt hear them. did anyone else catch em?

Ragnika
06-06-2008, 03:05
i was listening for the 3 shots and couldnt hear them. did anyone else catch em?

I can only hear one shot at around 5:47, but only one.

Matriel
06-06-2008, 03:55
Raw video of an interview with a CCW guy that defended himself near me recently.

http://www.wlky.com/video/16509601/index.html

Crying Hyena
06-06-2008, 04:26
She (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd3vWsa4ags&feature=related) got lucky. Good chance sh could have been killed. Explain how she was to defende herself in her home?

kiwiandmango
06-06-2008, 04:36
She (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd3vWsa4ags&feature=related) got lucky. Good chance sh could have been killed. Explain how she was to defende herself in her home?

That was scarier than the last one....

Crying Hyena
06-06-2008, 04:40
I am 15 and I currently have a Remington 700 .308 on layaway. I have no intention of ever using this against a human being. Gun shooting is a hobby my dad taught me and I intend to keep doing it my entire life. People who think they do not need guns shouldn't buy them, but don't ruin the fun for everyone else.

I don't think that gun would be very useful for home defense. Nice gun though.

[LoD] EE
06-06-2008, 04:54
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTAADW9wNvk&feature=related


Got her a compact 9mm, and we are going to the range this weekend. She had a friend email her the above link, and told me she was not going to wind up a statistic.


Edit:

That fucking 911 call will send fucking shivers down your spine.

Could have been cheaper just telling your GF that she is too ugly for anyone to stalk her.

Thats what I would have done, crush her self worth, makes them easier to control.

YEn
06-06-2008, 05:26
Sooooes, I was reading this, and no where other than youtube comments were Tazers ever mentioned. The only argument against the tazer that I saw was they did not work if the target was on speed or crack. Quite frankly, this seemed stupid, as your nervous system loses the ability to function correctly when tazed, so I don't know how a drug would make you immune. Anyhow, if somebody could find this study, I'd appreciate it.

Short of that, what is wrong with a tazer instead of a handgun?

A final thought as well: Handguns exist soley for killing people at close range, so there removal or absence in a populace should theoretically reduce (or change the way) in which people are killed. Possibly removing fatality. As for the 2nd ammendment, I guarantee you that a populace armed with handguns would do nothing to stop an organized military/militia. Don't hide behind the 2nd ammendment's protection, claiming that we can bare arms to rise against the government. Handgun ban =/= Gun ban (Different issue). Just because it's in the constitution doesn't mean it's right. 3/5ths of a citizen anyone?

Crying Hyena
06-06-2008, 05:46
Sooooes, I was reading this, and no where other than youtube comments were Tazers ever mentioned. The only argument against the tazer that I saw was they did not work if the target was on speed or crack. Quite frankly, this seemed stupid, as your nervous system loses the ability to function correctly when tazed, so I don't know how a drug would make you immune. Anyhow, if somebody could find this study, I'd appreciate it.

Short of that, what is wrong with a tazer instead of a handgun?

A final thought as well: Handguns exist soley for killing people at close range, so there removal or absence in a populace should theoretically reduce (or change the way) in which people are killed. Possibly removing fatality. As for the 2nd ammendment, I guarantee you that a populace armed with handguns would do nothing to stop an organized military/militia. Don't hide behind the 2nd ammendment's protection, claiming that we can bare arms to rise against the government. Handgun ban =/= Gun ban (Different issue). Just because it's in the constitution doesn't mean it's right. 3/5ths of a citizen anyone?

The old tazers had that problem but the new police tazers don't. They upped the voltage to compensate. I'm not sure about the civilian models. I think they operate at the original voltage levels so there is a chance that a person can fight through it. Don't quote me though.

Death's Chill
06-06-2008, 05:53
Sooooes, I was reading this, and no where other than youtube comments were Tazers ever mentioned. The only argument against the tazer that I saw was they did not work if the target was on speed or crack. Quite frankly, this seemed stupid, as your nervous system loses the ability to function correctly when tazed, so I don't know how a drug would make you immune. Anyhow, if somebody could find this study, I'd appreciate it.

Well honestly, killing him is better, as the legal process costs a lot of pointless money, and he'd just sit and rot in a cell wasting even more money after.

Also, guns are ten times more of a deterrent than a tazer. That's the best argument against using a tazer, though they are a viable alternative, I do admit.

Short of that, what is wrong with a tazer instead of a handgun?



A final thought as well: Handguns exist soley for killing people at close range, so there removal or absence in a populace should theoretically reduce (or change the way) in which people are killed. Possibly removing fatality. As for the 2nd ammendment, I guarantee you that a populace armed with handguns would do nothing to stop an organized military/militia. Don't hide behind the 2nd ammendment's protection, claiming that we can bare arms to rise against the government. Handgun ban =/= Gun ban (Different issue). Just because it's in the constitution doesn't mean it's right. 3/5ths of a citizen anyone?

Having the right to bear arms is an ABSOLUTE must, as the government eventually and likely very soon, will become out of control. It will threaten our basic rights, it already has, but it will start to do so on a much more obvious level soon in my opinion.

YEn
06-06-2008, 06:00
Having the right to bear arms is an ABSOLUTE must, as the government eventually and likely very soon, will become out of control. It will threaten our basic rights, it already has, but it will start to do so on a much more obvious level soon in my opinion.

I agree the government can become out of control, but there is a huge advantage in having an educated military, with people that can think for themselves (though not all do). The military would not follow commands that allow for too much repression, and if a war started, it is likely that much of the military would side with the people. I just think that handguns would do nothing to deter our government from a path of tyrrany if that's the path it takes.

III [C*D]
06-06-2008, 06:10
I agree the government can become out of control, but there is a huge advantage in having an educated military, with people that can think for themselves (though not all do). The military would not follow commands that allow for too much repression, and if a war started, it is likely that much of the military would side with the people. I just think that handguns would do nothing to deter our government from a path of tyrrany if that's the path it takes.

I'm starting to catch the theme here. The "South will rise again" people think they are going to overthrow the government with 9mm hand guns.

I'm glad the whole personal protection thing is thrown in there for the "emotional response." I heard about this one guy in this one state who successfully defended his home with his hand gun and there was 0 collateral damage. The other argument being its totally cool to kill people, why go non-lethal, lethal is so much more cool!

Yet, these are the people who own guns. You would think at the very least they would psycho analyze people before they armed them.

losinglife
06-06-2008, 06:12
Not ANOTHER gun thread hahah jesus christ.


I am still waiting on my county to approve my LTCF :(... slow bastards.

Skree

III [C*D]
06-06-2008, 06:20
I'm sorry but to those of you who think that not owning a gun for self protection in your own house is absolutely absurd.

People are fucking nuts these days, I'd be more than happy to blow away the fucker that tries to strangle me in my sleep.

Even if I'd get charged (america has come to this, no doubt) I wouldn't care. At least I knew the scum wasn't alive and I was.

I've been victim to many thefts, and to give power to the hands of nutjobs versus power to the innocent with a lethal weapon should be a no-brainer as to which one you should choose.

Anyone who disagrees never had anything bad happen to them before anyway, so you're opinion doesn't count.

How exactly are you going to blow somebody away when they are strangling you in your sleep? See what I did there?

No your right I've never had any life experience, I just live in a bubble and make this stuff up. I guess nut jobs are immune to security systems, guard dogs, community patrol...

Now, just so were on the same page yes I agree that bad things can happen to anybody at any time. Just this year an air plane crashed into a car dealership and killed a 16 year old getting ready to buy his first car. Maybe we should all wear steel helmets just in case that happens...

You can post links all day long, and I love that they are all showing only what will improve your point, a good debater can argue both sides of the argument!

Sure, a gun in my house could possibly stop a home invader. However, sense there is a pretty good chance that somebody I know could accidentally kill themselves with it... I'll take the risk of not owning one and doing everything that doesn't involve the rape of the true meaning of the 2nd amendment.

Get with the times. If you need a gun, you are putting yourself in a situation where you need it. The chances of somebody randomly invading your home are likely a lot lower then the chances or somebody accidentally hurting themselves with your home protection.

Again, the whole "home defense" argument is a red herring. You want a gun because you think guns are cool, they make you feel powerful or you think that gun gives you a louder voice. In reality, your just another prime example of why nobody should own a gun.

Reikson
06-06-2008, 06:52
She (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd3vWsa4ags&feature=related) got lucky. Good chance sh could have been killed. Explain how she was to defende herself in her home?

that was pretty disturbing

Death's Chill
06-06-2008, 07:29
I agree the government can become out of control, but there is a huge advantage in having an educated military, with people that can think for themselves (though not all do). The military would not follow commands that allow for too much repression, and if a war started, it is likely that much of the military would side with the people. I just think that handguns would do nothing to deter our government from a path of tyrrany if that's the path it takes.

Deter? No.

Guns deter criminals, not the government. I don't think the government ever will really fear the people, however if and when they do try to pull a scheme that truly attacks our personal liberties to their core, people will realize, wait... that's not right, they can't do that. At least hopefully they will, and in such a case, they couldn't do anything at all without weapons.

Death's Chill
06-06-2008, 07:41
;1384943']How exactly are you going to blow somebody away when they are strangling you in your sleep? See what I did there?

It was just his form of expression. Obviously if someone kills you while you're sleeping, there isn't much you can do. However, security systems combined with a calm mind and a weapon at your disposal is enough to deter and protect yourself or your family from those that would do you harm.



No your right I've never had any life experience, I just live in a bubble and make this stuff up. I guess nut jobs are immune to security systems, guard dogs, community patrol...

Security systems make noise and alert the police who will take minutes if not hours to get to you, so they are useful in awaking YOU, but unless you can defend yourself, you're fucked.


Now, just so were on the same page yes I agree that bad things can happen to anybody at any time. Just this year an air plane crashed into a car dealership and killed a 16 year old getting ready to buy his first car. Maybe we should all wear steel helmets just in case that happens...

Are you kidding me?

You're totally missing the point. It's not about the odds, it's about one's right. If YOU do not want to own a gun, then I have no quarrel with you. That is your choice. However, if I, or anyone else for that matter, DOES; that is their right. They should be allowed to buy and own a weapon that can potential save their lives.


You can post links all day long, and I love that they are all showing only what will improve your point, a good debater can argue both sides of the argument!

Yes a good debater can. I see the only point on the anti-gun advocates list that makes any sense is the increase in accidents if people had guns, and I'll address that now...



Sure, a gun in my house could possibly stop a home invader. However, sense there is a pretty good chance that somebody I know could accidentally kill themselves with it... I'll take the risk of not owning one and doing everything that doesn't involve the rape of the true meaning of the 2nd amendment.

So, you think an accident is worse than a crime? I don't understand this logic. If a criminal comes into your home and you are defenseless, either you'll be lucky and he will not kill you, but merely rob you or rape your wife, and if you're unlucky, he will beat you senseless, kill you, rob you, bury your kids alive, and burn your house down all the while never getting caught because seriously, the police are dumb and beyond that, do not have the resources to investigate every crime like you see on tv. ;)

While if an accident occurs, no second shots will be fired. It's an accident. No harm was intended. If someone finds a gun and shoots themselves, well I'm sorry but they had it coming in the long run, even if it is a kid; it's the parents fault for not educating them on the dangers involved.


Get with the times. If you need a gun, you are putting yourself in a situation where you need it. The chances of somebody randomly invading your home are likely a lot lower then the chances or somebody accidentally hurting themselves with your home protection.

...

That's like saying buying a helmet is putting yourself in a situation where you're more likely to need it. That is downright fucking wrong, I'm sorry but no, no and no.

People are sentient beings. If someone comes into my home, and finds a gun, and shoots themselves, I am sorry but that is his own fucking fault; not mine. It's not a reason at all to make guns illegal. If it is reason enough for YOU not to own one, suit yourself. I'm not advocating that people be forced to own one, merely that people should have the right to if that be their volition.


Again, the whole "home defense" argument is a red herring. You want a gun because you think guns are cool, they make you feel powerful or you think that gun gives you a louder voice. In reality, your just another prime example of why nobody should own a gun.

No, I want a gun because I realize that even as a male in my prime, I am far from invincible, especially in vulnerable times or against multiple people. A gun is a leveling field and a mighty fine deterrent, a hundred fucking times more effective than the police. That is one hell of a reason to own and carry a gun.

Ragnika
06-06-2008, 07:49
;1384943']How exactly are you going to blow somebody away when they are strangling you in your sleep? See what I did there?

How exactly are you going to blow somebody away when they are strangling you in your sleep and you don't have a firearm close by to render the invader useless? See what I did there?

If you have a gun near you, even if you are sleeping, you greatly increase your chances at survival when awake than if you didn't; even in a struggle. That is of course if the invader gets to your bedroom before you wake up. Simple common sense, use some; or should they just let themselves get strangled and hope they stop to "save" themselves?


;1384943']No your right I've never had any life experience, I just live in a bubble and make this stuff up. I guess nut jobs are immune to security systems, guard dogs, community patrol...

Now, just so were on the same page yes I agree that bad things can happen to anybody at any time. Just this year an air plane crashed into a car dealership and killed a 16 year old getting ready to buy his first car. Maybe we should all wear steel helmets just in case that happens...

A steel helmet isn't going to protect you from an airplane crash either.


;1384943']You can post links all day long, and I love that they are all showing only what will improve your point, a good debater can argue both sides of the argument!

Translation: I continue to ignore facts.


;1384943']Sure, a gun in my house could possibly stop a home invader. However, sense there is a pretty good chance that somebody I know could accidentally kill themselves with it... I'll take the risk of not owning one and doing everything that doesn't involve the rape of the true meaning of the 2nd amendment.

Now that you admit that a gun could increase your chances of survival, a little education can go a long way as well.

Your last sentence I have no clue how to interpret.


;1384943']Get with the times. If you need a gun, you are putting yourself in a situation where you need it.

Oh yeah, I'm sure the lady in the clip placed herself in that situation. She was probably baking cookies, or watching some grandchildren or something but because her firearm was with her, she asked for it. :rolleyes:


;1384943']The chances of somebody randomly invading your home are likely a lot lower then the chances or somebody accidentally hurting themselves with your home protection.

You'll notice that usually when anybody presents a fact on this topic, they'll provide a source as well.


;1384943']Again, the whole "home defense" argument is a red herring. You want a gun because you think guns are cool, they make you feel powerful or you think that gun gives you a louder voice. In reality, your just another prime example of why nobody should own a gun.

You are contradicting yourself here, it's not cool - it's self-defense. Watch the interview that Matriel posted. After that guy shot the two intruders, he didn't think there was anything "cool" about it. In fact, I think it's safe to say judging off of his apologetic attitude for the situation he probably wished it would have never happened.

Everto
06-06-2008, 08:10
I want a rocket propelled chainsaw launcher.

Xelot
06-06-2008, 08:14
One thing to remember if you are shooting a home invader. Shoot to kill. If they don't die, they can sue you. Some invaders who have been shot have sued the homeowners and won.

To stay safe, you need to protect yourself from those people out there who have no concience, or moral compass. People who don't value human life, don't think twice about killing others.

Take a look at the VT shooting. What did the students do in the majority? They hid under their desks or in the aisles and hoped they wouldn't get shot. What happened? They all got shot at least three times each. The only heroic act I heard of there was a teacher who gave his life blocking the door to his classroom.

Tell me, if people were allowed to carry guns on the VT campus, how many people would have died?

X~

fRdz
06-06-2008, 08:23
Tell me, if people were allowed to carry guns on the VT campus, how many people would have died?

I really don't think that's a sane question to ask

If everyone start wearing guns at work and at school that just says a lot about the state of your own country.

Death's Chill
06-06-2008, 09:16
I really don't think that's a sane question to ask

If everyone start wearing guns at work and at school that just says a lot about the state of your own country.

Yes, it says that people are willing to take on the responsibility of personal defense themselves, as it should be.

Daarco
06-06-2008, 09:32
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTAADW9wNvk&feature=related


Got her a compact 9mm, and we are going to the range this weekend. She had a friend email her the above link, and told me she was not going to wind up a statistic.


Edit:

That fucking 911 call will send fucking shivers down your spine.



Good thing the intruder didnt have a gun. Then the woman could have been killed.

But i support that everyone should have wapons. Thats also why i support that every country in the world should have nukes to be able to defend themselves. Even Afghanistan ans Island.

Titus Ultor
06-06-2008, 09:50
I want to live in a world where I'm responsible for myself and my loved ones. I'm more than ready to risk a potential accident for self-determination.

What the FUCK ever happened to "give me liberty or give me death"?

Lethn
06-06-2008, 09:55
love these threads, they always dissolve into ego flame wars, even when they start off well meaning.

oh and one thing I've learned these days is apparently to most people standing up for yourself instead of doing no as your told, no matter how bullshit it is, makes you an asshole and a failure in their eyes.

Democracy my ass.

BlackVolgan
06-06-2008, 10:16
thats some crazy shit.

You cant defend yourself with a gun in Australia :(

i get pretty scared when i go out at night into the city. There are storys of stabbings and what not. No gun killings though. But i can imagine if people that have saught authority to carry a gun for self defense, getting stabbed would seem less likely as the attacker would be less inclined to attack anyone with the presumtion that their victim may have a fire arm.

i dunno, i just wish there were no fucked up people in the world to harm innocent people. But reality is reality and when the time comes, you have to defend yourself somehow.

wheelerdealer
06-06-2008, 10:23
Yay for more Gun Control argument...

I've been swayed so far on this, it sucks that if something were to happen to me or my girlfriend, I would be able to do pretty much nothing to stop it. III, you're seriously suggesting people have to go to all these extra lengths for defense, and make it sound easy?! "Get a better job -> Move to a fortress island -> Breed huge guard dogs -> Don't buy guns".

I still have an inbred distrust of firearms, coming from a country they're banned in. I'll be in New York state for 3 months on Monday (right be the NJ/Penn/NY border), is it relatively easy to go to a shooting range and educate myself a little?

EDIT: Quick search seems like I might be less successful in NY/NJ, but I'll keep trying...

Arkh
06-06-2008, 11:39
I want to live in a world where I'm responsible for myself and my loved ones. I'm more than ready to risk a potential accident for self-determination.

What the FUCK ever happened to "give me liberty or give me death"?
Liberty comes with a price : responsability. Less than 30% people wish to pay this price. The other 70% is happy being pampered by 1% of state predators.

Lethn
06-06-2008, 11:42
I think ANY government just needs to do more to make sure less stupid people carry around firearms or use them in a ridiculous manner, fuck all this gun control being right or wrong crap, I think we can all agree that the government needs to do SOMETHING and not put innocent people in jail for defending themselves and trying to live a normal life.

fRdz
06-06-2008, 11:48
Yes, it says that people are willing to take on the responsibility of personal defense themselves, as it should be.

No, it tells you humanity phails.

Steelbadger
06-06-2008, 11:52
What depresses me is that guns are apparently needed for people to feel safe in America. That should not be the case.

BlackVolgan
06-06-2008, 11:53
all everyone needs is a: http://www.jamesmcadam.co.uk/portfolio_html/sb_table.html

[LoD] EE
06-06-2008, 11:57
I really don't think that's a sane question to ask

If everyone start wearing guns at work and at school that just says a lot about the state of your own country.

When you rely on the police to protect you, you put yourself in harms way.

The police in the US are stretched too thin, I've waited 3 hours for an officer to show up to file a report because a car was broken into. I spent 20 minutes talking to a guy, trying to convince him not to stab another guy while waiting for the police, whos station was no more than 5 minutes away at the legal driving speed and yes, 911 knew the guy was trying to stab the other guy.

BlackVolgan
06-06-2008, 12:00
EE;1385184']When you rely on the police to protect you, you put yourself in harms way.

The police in the US are stretched too thin, I've waited 3 hours for an officer to show up to file a report because a car was broken into. I spent 20 minutes talking to a guy, trying to convince him not to stab another guy while waiting for the police, whos station was no more than 5 minutes away at the legal driving speed and yes, 911 knew the guy was trying to stab the other guy.

lol?

"please don't stab that guy, the cops are on the way. Just wait it out and you'll be arrested soon."

losinglife
06-06-2008, 12:13
damn i can never tell who is trolling who in gun threads :ninja:


Skree

Thrill_KIll
06-06-2008, 12:20
damn i can never tell who is trolling who in gun threads :ninja:


Skree



ROFL

Am I the only one noticing how you are signing all your posts with a mocking "Skree"?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

losinglife
06-06-2008, 12:26
ROFL

Am I the only one noticing how you are signing all your posts with a mocking "Skree"?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


Nope, a few other started joining in the game as well :D.

Skree

Matriel
06-06-2008, 13:31
Sooooes, I was reading this, and no where other than youtube comments were Tazers ever mentioned. The only argument against the tazer that I saw was they did not work if the target was on speed or crack. Quite frankly, this seemed stupid, as your nervous system loses the ability to function correctly when tazed, so I don't know how a drug would make you immune. Anyhow, if somebody could find this study, I'd appreciate it.

Short of that, what is wrong with a tazer instead of a handgun?

Tazers are not a guaranteed way to stop a determined attacker. The same reason police officers still carry handguns and not just tazers. The only way to stop a determined attacker is to stop their ability to attack you. Which can be caused via 3 ways. Blood loss, structural support loss (bones), or death.


A final thought as well: Handguns exist soley for killing people at close range, so there removal or absence in a populace should theoretically reduce (or change the way) in which people are killed. Possibly removing fatality. As for the 2nd ammendment, I guarantee you that a populace armed with handguns would do nothing to stop an organized military/militia. Don't hide behind the 2nd ammendment's protection, claiming that we can bare arms to rise against the government. Handgun ban =/= Gun ban (Different issue). Just because it's in the constitution doesn't mean it's right. 3/5ths of a citizen anyone?

Their removal would also stop the 700,000 to 2,000,000 crimes that are stopped with them every year by private citizens. Numbers which well eclipse the number of gun crimes and murders with weapons every year.

And if handguns are so militarily ineffective, why in the fuck does our military use them?

And yes, if something is in the Constitution, it is a right until it's amended away. Learn how the fuck this country works instead of using emotions.


I really don't think that's a sane question to ask

If everyone start wearing guns at work and at school that just says a lot about the state of your own country.

Why is it if the carrying of guns is allowed in select areas (Virginia is already open, VT was not) means everyone will suddenly pack guns and that we'll have rivers of blood in the streets?

The CCW demographic has proven itself time and again responsible and not stupid with their firearms, yet this irrational fear of people with the ability to defend theirselves exists. Why?


I want to live in a world where I'm responsible for myself and my loved ones. I'm more than ready to risk a potential accident for self-determination.

What the FUCK ever happened to "give me liberty or give me death"?

It was replaced by give me safeties and entitlement programs.


Yay for more Gun Control argument...

I've been swayed so far on this, it sucks that if something were to happen to me or my girlfriend, I would be able to do pretty much nothing to stop it. III, you're seriously suggesting people have to go to all these extra lengths for defense, and make it sound easy?! "Get a better job -> Move to a fortress island -> Breed huge guard dogs -> Don't buy guns".

I still have an inbred distrust of firearms, coming from a country they're banned in. I'll be in New York state for 3 months on Monday (right be the NJ/Penn/NY border), is it relatively easy to go to a shooting range and educate myself a little?

EDIT: Quick search seems like I might be less successful in NY/NJ, but I'll keep trying...

Imo, drive up to Vermont. Most free state as that goes in the Northeast. If you want, shoot me a PM, I'll refer you to a couple of gun forums where you an ask the questions you want and find help from a local member to that area.

Arkh
06-06-2008, 17:41
We need a Godwin point now !
Hitler was against civilian having firearms : see how liberated germany was during his reign.

YEn
06-06-2008, 17:43
Tazers are not a guaranteed way to stop a determined attacker. The same reason police officers still carry handguns and not just tazers. The only way to stop a determined attacker is to stop their ability to attack you. Which can be caused via 3 ways. Blood loss, structural support loss (bones), or death.

Though it doesn't fit into your 3 rules of stopping at attacker, I somehow think that:

"The result is an instant loss of the attacker’s neuromuscular control and any ability to perform coordinated action. AIR TASER uses an automatic timing mechanism to apply the electric charge. The AIR-TASER releases an electric current in a pre-set time sequence (an initial seven seconds followed by several 1.8 second breaks for a total time of about 30 seconds in each cycle). This cycle ensures that the nervous system of the target does not recover instantly to allow him to remove the probes. The follow-on bursts disrupt the process of re-equilibration of the nervous system. While the target is disabled, the user can place the device on the ground and escape."

Taken from http://www.selfdefenseweapons.com/air-taser-information.htm

Is a viable way to stop an attacker no matter how determined they are. Loss of control of your nervous system can be rather devastating, more so probably than a shot to an extremity if the attacker is truly that determined.




Their removal would also stop the 700,000 to 2,000,000 crimes that are stopped with them every year by private citizens. Numbers which well eclipse the number of gun crimes and murders with weapons every year.


Where did that number come from? Cause if that's true, it is rather staggering.



And if handguns are so militarily ineffective, why in the fuck does our military use them?


There's a reason it's called a secondary firearm. It's used as a back-up weapon in close range self-defense. However, it is secondary to an assault rifle, which is far more effective. I can't speak from personal experience, but I'm somewhat certain that almost none of our military's ground combat takes place with pistols. Also worth noting, is that bullet-proof vests are far more effective against pistols as opposed to assault rifles. So their use puts on at a disadvantage v.s. armored targets.



And yes, if something is in the Constitution, it is a right until it's amended away. Learn how the fuck this country works instead of using emotions.
area.


Perhaps before you criticize, you should check your reading comprehension. I didn't say it wasn't a right, I said just because it's in the constitution doesn't make it right. The founding fathers were brilliant, but they lived in a different day and age. Times change, and sometimes, we need to change with them.

fRdz
06-06-2008, 17:57
EE;1385184']When you rely on the police to protect you, you put yourself in harms way.

The police in the US are stretched too thin, I've waited 3 hours for an officer to show up to file a report because a car was broken into. I spent 20 minutes talking to a guy, trying to convince him not to stab another guy while waiting for the police, whos station was no more than 5 minutes away at the legal driving speed and yes, 911 knew the guy was trying to stab the other guy.

I totally agree - I was just stating that it surprises me how bad the system over in the U.S is - or in any country where you would have to bear arms to actually feels safe.

I was just asking the question, simple as this, wtf is the country going where the police and states fails at doing it's job. Not saying it's an easy job or anything.

Bissen
06-06-2008, 18:06
Your gf is a fuckin moron.

End of thread.

Uzik
06-06-2008, 18:14
I would have had the gun pointed at the door and blasted the second he tried to knock it down.

Also, I found a better video on the related section:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tMDhVu-f2Q&feature=related

Death's Chill
06-06-2008, 19:07
Yay for more Gun Control argument...

I've been swayed so far on this, it sucks that if something were to happen to me or my girlfriend, I would be able to do pretty much nothing to stop it. III, you're seriously suggesting people have to go to all these extra lengths for defense, and make it sound easy?! "Get a better job -> Move to a fortress island -> Breed huge guard dogs -> Don't buy guns".

I still have an inbred distrust of firearms, coming from a country they're banned in. I'll be in New York state for 3 months on Monday (right be the NJ/Penn/NY border), is it relatively easy to go to a shooting range and educate myself a little?

EDIT: Quick search seems like I might be less successful in NY/NJ, but I'll keep trying...

Well you need to have a concealed weapon permit to buy a gun, but I believe anyone can go to a shooting range and practice, so it shouldn't be very difficult. :)

Death's Chill
06-06-2008, 19:09
I think ANY government just needs to do more to make sure less stupid people carry around firearms or use them in a ridiculous manner, fuck all this gun control being right or wrong crap, I think we can all agree that the government needs to do SOMETHING and not put innocent people in jail for defending themselves and trying to live a normal life.

Actually no I disagree, this isn't a governmental issue at all. The only thing they need to do is make guns completely legal, I don't see much purpose in the need to obtain a permit for one, it just states that owning a gun is a privilege that can be revoked, not a right.

Ragnika
06-06-2008, 19:10
Well you need to have a concealed weapon permit to buy a gun, but I believe anyone can go to a shooting range and practice, so it shouldn't be very difficult. :)

I think you have it backwards, you need a gun to get a concealed weapons permit.

Death's Chill
06-06-2008, 19:16
Though it doesn't fit into your 3 rules of stopping at attacker, I somehow think that:

"The result is an instant loss of the attacker’s neuromuscular control and any ability to perform coordinated action. AIR TASER uses an automatic timing mechanism to apply the electric charge. The AIR-TASER releases an electric current in a pre-set time sequence (an initial seven seconds followed by several 1.8 second breaks for a total time of about 30 seconds in each cycle). This cycle ensures that the nervous system of the target does not recover instantly to allow him to remove the probes. The follow-on bursts disrupt the process of re-equilibration of the nervous system. While the target is disabled, the user can place the device on the ground and escape."

Taken from http://www.selfdefenseweapons.com/air-taser-information.htm

Is a viable way to stop an attacker no matter how determined they are. Loss of control of your nervous system can be rather devastating, more so probably than a shot to an extremity if the attacker is truly that determined.

And yet a single shot to the head, or even to any portion of the body can lead to death. Again, far superior method than stunning him until you can call your parents (the police) to come handle the situation for you. :rolleyes:





Where did that number come from? Cause if that's true, it is rather staggering.

Oh it's true, and yes it is staggering no doubt; but in a good way. It means there are millions of people in America that are at least semi-intelligent beings that do understand the meaning of personal responsibility.




There's a reason it's called a secondary firearm. It's used as a back-up weapon in close range self-defense. However, it is secondary to an assault rifle, which is far more effective. I can't speak from personal experience, but I'm somewhat certain that almost none of our military's ground combat takes place with pistols. Also worth noting, is that bullet-proof vests are far more effective against pistols as opposed to assault rifles. So their use puts on at a disadvantage v.s. armored targets.

Bullet proof vests are indeed useful, but while they stop the bullet, at close range believe me, you will still feel the kinetic energy, and it is not pleasant.




Perhaps before you criticize, you should check your reading comprehension. I didn't say it wasn't a right, I said just because it's in the constitution doesn't make it right. The founding fathers were brilliant, but they lived in a different day and age. Times change, and sometimes, we need to change with them.

Which is why there is such a thing called amendments, that require many people to vote on in different states for it to be changed at the foundation of our society, the constitution. ;)


I think you have it backwards, you need a gun to get a concealed weapons permit.

You can't buy a gun unless you have a permit. Or at least, if you could, it wouldn't be very effective. You wouldn't be allowed to carry it on your person.

I know you cannot order them online, for one, most likely because yes you do need to have the permit before even being allowed to buy the gun.

Marx
06-06-2008, 19:34
That video doesn't really take up the dangers with having a gun.

For example you might think it's okey to shoot a kid stealing some candy from your shop just becausey ou can't catch him that's sickening.

Or for example having a bit violent fight with your husband/wife and being drunk and shooting him/her.


And the whole thing about "being a prey" is a bit fucked.


But yeah, if you are a human being that can control yourself and think with your fucking brain then you should have a gun. If not, stay away from it.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uw_KZItjBEA&feature=related

Then again, that's the real sick shit. Shoot those copers.

Oh if only you could decide who gets to have a gun and who doesn't. Sorry, that isn't freedom.
But then again you're Swedish so the concept may be alien to you.

Matriel
06-06-2008, 19:56
Though it doesn't fit into your 3 rules of stopping at attacker, I somehow think that:

"The result is an instant loss of the attacker’s neuromuscular control and any ability to perform coordinated action. AIR TASER uses an automatic timing mechanism to apply the electric charge. The AIR-TASER releases an electric current in a pre-set time sequence (an initial seven seconds followed by several 1.8 second breaks for a total time of about 30 seconds in each cycle). This cycle ensures that the nervous system of the target does not recover instantly to allow him to remove the probes. The follow-on bursts disrupt the process of re-equilibration of the nervous system. While the target is disabled, the user can place the device on the ground and escape."

Taken from http://www.selfdefenseweapons.com/air-taser-information.htm

Is a viable way to stop an attacker no matter how determined they are. Loss of control of your nervous system can be rather devastating, more so probably than a shot to an extremity if the attacker is truly that determined.

Except they don't always work. Some people aren't affected by them in the same way. They have horribly short range. Etc. I could go on all day on the tactics of how tazers suck ass, but it's really not necessary. If tazers were that good, they would have replaced guns. They have not and will not ever do so.

But hey, I guess if the site wants to keep selling them to retards that don't have the best tool for the job, they should talk them up pretty good eh?



Where did that number come from? Cause if that's true, it is rather staggering.

“Armed Resistance to Crime: The Prevalence and Nature of Self-Defense with a Gun.” By Gary Kleck and Marc Gertz. Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology (Northwestern University School of Law), 1995.

Of course you don't hear about it on CNN because that shit doesn't sell like the sadness of someone getting murdered.




There's a reason it's called a secondary firearm. It's used as a back-up weapon in close range self-defense. However, it is secondary to an assault rifle, which is far more effective. I can't speak from personal experience, but I'm somewhat certain that almost none of our military's ground combat takes place with pistols. Also worth noting, is that bullet-proof vests are far more effective against pistols as opposed to assault rifles. So their use puts on at a disadvantage v.s. armored targets.

You said a whole bunc of unrelated shit that didn't at all address my point. If they were so unnecessary they would have been gotten rid of. They have not because they still fill a valuable niche in a military aparatus.




Perhaps before you criticize, you should check your reading comprehension. I didn't say it wasn't a right, I said just because it's in the constitution doesn't make it right. The founding fathers were brilliant, but they lived in a different day and age. Times change, and sometimes, we need to change with them.

By being a right, the law of the land makes it right. It doesn't infringe upon anyone allowing people the ability to defend themselves from criminals or their government.

And the fuck if it was for a different day and age. Soon as governments stop trying to fuck people over you might have a point. They sure as shit haven't in the 200+ years America has been around. Your argument is the equivalent to saying freedom of speech only applies to printing presses because that's what the Founders had to print material when they were alive. It's stupid.


I totally agree - I was just stating that it surprises me how bad the system over in the U.S is - or in any country where you would have to bear arms to actually feels safe.

I was just asking the question, simple as this, wtf is the country going where the police and states fails at doing it's job. Not saying it's an easy job or anything.

I wanna know what kind of country you live in that considers the ability to let people be prepared bad. No one forces you to carry a firearm. I feel plenty safe without one in America short of a few inner city urban areas. However, I also still realize that bad things happen to people all the fucking time in all countries.

The difference, I have the right to prepare for it if I choose to, you do not.

SSguy
06-06-2008, 20:52
"The result is an instant loss of the attacker’s neuromuscular control and any ability to perform coordinated action. AIR TASER uses an automatic timing mechanism to apply the electric charge. The AIR-TASER releases an electric current in a pre-set time sequence (an initial seven seconds followed by several 1.8 second breaks for a total time of about 30 seconds in each cycle). This cycle ensures that the nervous system of the target does not recover instantly to allow him to remove the probes. The follow-on bursts disrupt the process of re-equilibration of the nervous system. While the target is disabled, the user can place the device on the ground and escape."

Taken from http://www.selfdefenseweapons.com/air-taser-information.htm

Is a viable way to stop an attacker no matter how determined they are. Loss of control of your nervous system can be rather devastating, more so probably than a shot to an extremity if the attacker is truly that determined.


Thats also a great way to rape someone....Tase them.....unhook taser....rape them, rob them, w/e they are now at your mercy.

Plus its safer than guns!!! yay for criminals!!

Taser proof cloths and vests do exist you know, if more and more people get tasers instead of guns to defend themselves, you better be one hell of a shot because its much more easy to stop. Not like you get multiple shots either.

Garbage can lid + rubber gloves > taser.

Non air taser - requires close range, trumped by a gun.
Ait taser - one shot only, also trumped by a gun.


This post has been approved by KingHussien

Thrill_KIll
06-06-2008, 22:10
Your gf is a fuckin moron.

End of thread.


And your an internet nobody who I would most likely slap to death, since you're not man enough to waste a fist on. What's your point?

Bissen
06-06-2008, 22:19
And your an internet nobody who I would most likely slap to death, since you're not man enough to waste a fist on. What's your point?


My point is this. Your girlfriend is a fuckin moron, because of her paranoid delusions, brought to her via biased gunlovers on a youtube vid. Now she can run around feeling "safe", all though she feels made up muggers might jump her any minute now.

Ohh and aint slapping for pussies? I thought that was why you owned a gun.

Matriel
06-06-2008, 22:32
That was his point. Slapping another man is degrading to the person that gets slapped. He's calling you a cowardly sumbitch. Which you are by insulting a woman for wanting a force equalizing weapon in a world that leaves her physically inferiour to many people.

Thrill_KIll
06-06-2008, 22:34
My point is this. Your girlfriend is a fuckin moron, because of her paranoid delusions, brought to her via biased gunlovers on a youtube vid. Now she can run around feeling "safe", all though she feels made up muggers might jump her any minute now.


No, she doesn't feel that way at all. She wants to be sure that she has a pistol that she can keep at the house with her in case (key words here Adolf, IN CASE) she should ever need it and I am out of town. The biggest thing she took from that video was not that she might get attacked any minute, but rather that should something bad like that ever happen....police response time will do her no good. Unless you consider the guys who draw chalk lines around bodies doing good?

Not to mention, there are things about my girl friend your presumtious ass does not know. But I love how a "gun hater" can make all these extreme characterizations about people to support their monumentally failure of a world veiw.


Ohh and aint slapping for pussies? I thought that was why you owned a gun.

ROFL

Silly gun hater. No wonder you are bitter, no facts in the world support you. I would be pissy too.

Bissen
06-06-2008, 23:56
There's a reason why your police is late. They are out investigating similar gun scenarios.

Matriel
06-07-2008, 00:11
There's a reason why your police is late. They are out investigating similar gun scenarios.

Lol, or because it's logistically impossible for that small amount of people to be able to protect everyone else in the country. But hey, no need to inject reality into your irrational mind.

Ragnika
06-07-2008, 00:16
You can't buy a gun unless you have a permit. Or at least, if you could, it wouldn't be very effective. You wouldn't be allowed to carry it on your person.

I know you cannot order them online, for one, most likely because yes you do need to have the permit before even being allowed to buy the gun.

The very first statement I quoted threw me off because "concealed" was in there. I'm currently researching how to obtain a CCW here in California, and they ask for the weapon's make, model and serial no. right on the application. How can you fill that out w/o having a weapon first?

http://www.lasd.org/contact_us/inquiry/gen_pub_ccw_app.pdf - Bottom of page 5.

Besides, I would argue that even if I did try to obtain a CCW and for whatever reason it was "denied", I'm going to carry regardless. A permit isn't going to stop me.

Matriel
06-07-2008, 00:24
The very first statement I quoted threw me off because "concealed" was in there. I'm currently researching how to obtain a CCW here in California, and they ask for the weapon's make, model and serial no. right on the application. How can you fill that out w/o having a weapon first?

http://www.lasd.org/contact_us/inquiry/gen_pub_ccw_app.pdf - Bottom of page 5.

Besides, I would argue that even if I did try to obtain a CCW and for whatever reason it was "denied", I'm going to carry regardless. A permit isn't going to stop me.

You can buy first. Some states require you to get a permit (different than a permit to carry) to buy. California might be one of them. There's a forum called calguns.net or something like that. They can probably answer all of your questions.

CCW is up to your county's sheriff. If you're near LA you aren't getting one unless you're a fucking movie star or rich.

Ragnika
06-07-2008, 00:31
You can buy first. Some states require you to get a permit (different than a permit to carry) to buy. California might be one of them. There's a forum called calguns.net or something like that. They can probably answer all of your questions.

CCW is up to your county's sheriff. If you're near LA you aren't getting one unless you're a fucking movie star or rich.

Thanks for the tip, I've been reading up on another site but I'll be sure to check calguns.net out as well.

I live in LA county, and that's exactly what I've been reading. :(

fRdz
06-07-2008, 01:00
After reading alot in this thread, and generally on the forums, and ofc asking some Americans what they think of the state most of them come to the same conclusion: That they should stay the fuck out of their lives and let them take care of themselves and their own

Now I am thinking, does this mean a common state like the U.S actually has started to adopt into Anarchistic opinions and statements?

An true anarchy is where everything is governed by the people and there is no ruling state. Now I'm not saying that any of you are anarchists (I am a bit of an anarchist myself, I believe that the state should GTFO but also realise that humanity might not be ready for sutch a thing)

But when it all comes to a close I can definetley see that most people really don't see the need for a state (maybe for somethings) but mostly not.

Am I completely wrong on this one?

Simmy
06-07-2008, 01:11
I feel plenty safe without one in America short of a few inner city urban areas. However, I also still realize that bad things happen to people all the fucking time in all countries.


Like Detroit? I never fucking feel safe there, no matter what area I'm in.

Thrill_KIll
06-07-2008, 02:08
There's a reason why your police is late. They are out investigating similar gun scenarios.



Way to completely lie to support your argument which has zero grounds in fact.

With a statement like that, I am now awaiting for you to tell me next the earth is flat.


You're European, right Bissen? I know a few members of your guild from AC, and most were Europena is why I ask. Let me ask you this. The last time a European leader made all weapons illegal for the populace, how did that work out?

I'll give you a hint, his first name rhymes with Rudolph!

Kyur
06-07-2008, 02:23
I have 2 guns hidden throughout our house for this exact reason.

Death's Chill
06-07-2008, 02:24
The very first statement I quoted threw me off because "concealed" was in there. I'm currently researching how to obtain a CCW here in California, and they ask for the weapon's make, model and serial no. right on the application. How can you fill that out w/o having a weapon first?

http://www.lasd.org/contact_us/inquiry/gen_pub_ccw_app.pdf - Bottom of page 5.


You likely have to apply for a specific type of weapon, and they'd like to know which one you're interested in obtaining. I don't think permits are specific towards each gun, in that you need multiple ones for every gun you own. That would be strange, like having to get multiple licenses if you own more than one car of the same type.. :ninja:



Besides, I would argue that even if I did try to obtain a CCW and for whatever reason it was "denied", I'm going to carry regardless. A permit isn't going to stop me.

The problem in this case, as bold and valiant as it may be, is that you're going to be fearing using it; as even if it saved your life, you'd be jailed for years because you used an illegal weapon, and were carrying one too. At least two or three charges right there. It's truly sick if you ask me.

Death's Chill
06-07-2008, 02:26
After reading alot in this thread, and generally on the forums, and ofc asking some Americans what they think of the state most of them come to the same conclusion: That they should stay the fuck out of their lives and let them take care of themselves and their own

Now I am thinking, does this mean a common state like the U.S actually has started to adopt into Anarchistic opinions and statements?

An true anarchy is where everything is governed by the people and there is no ruling state. Now I'm not saying that any of you are anarchists (I am a bit of an anarchist myself, I believe that the state should GTFO but also realise that humanity might not be ready for sutch a thing)

But when it all comes to a close I can definetley see that most people really don't see the need for a state (maybe for somethings) but mostly not.

Am I completely wrong on this one?

I am of the sentiment that no, humanity isn't quite ready for no government at all, but less? Absolutely. As small as it need be. And the power in large should rest on the state level, not the federal level.


You can buy first. Some states require you to get a permit (different than a permit to carry) to buy. California might be one of them. There's a forum called calguns.net or something like that. They can probably answer all of your questions.

CCW is up to your county's sheriff. If you're near LA you aren't getting one unless you're a fucking movie star or rich.

Hmm, if you don't need a permit to buy a gun, why is it illegal to purchase them online?

Thrill_KIll
06-07-2008, 02:42
I am of the sentiment that no, humanity isn't quite ready for no government at all, but less? Absolutely. As small as it need be. And the power in large should rest on the state level, not the federal level.



Hmm, if you don't need a permit to buy a gun, why is it illegal to purchase them online?


Due to background check and waiting period laws. It is a safety valve to insure the person buying the firearm is indeed, the person who is buying the firearm. Basically, the same reason you can't buy weapons via mail order anymore.

It's a shame people either refuse to acknowledge, or flat out don't know, that the bulk of the American gun laws were copied verbatum from previous Nazi gun laws. I wonder how they'd feel about them then?

Death's Chill
06-07-2008, 02:58
Due to background check and waiting period laws. It is a safety valve to insure the person buying the firearm is indeed, the person who is buying the firearm. Basically, the same reason you can't buy weapons via mail order anymore.

It's a shame people either refuse to acknowledge, or flat out don't know, that the bulk of the American gun laws were copied verbatum from previous Nazi gun laws. I wonder how they'd feel about them then?

They probably would still not care.

And those background checks and waiting periods don't do much. A guy can just ask another guy with a clean record to buy him a gun, sure it would take a few months at the most, but he'd still get one. That, or pay a little extra and buy one in an hour on the street.

Gun control is 100% ineffective and even if it somewhat worked, it still would be wrong and not as effective as people actually being the deterrent instead of the police/jail.

mefistofelis
06-07-2008, 03:43
I would not say that i am the expert for the subdject but i would like to give you some points of view that mostly come out of my training at the army.

In Greece we all serve the army for a time period of 18 months and get some education on warfare and arms my sector was heavy arms marksman and i also passed the snipers school.

How many of you have actually wondered what a gun is?
A gun in the hands of a civilian is...
1)Dangerous (NO,simple training on how to handle it doesnt make it less dangerous,its a bloody myth)
2)A simple morale boost (Look i have a big gun i am immortall)

A gun in the hands of a REALLY WELL TRAINED soldier-law enforcer is
1)A tool that he can use to boost already learned abilities.

So whats the big difference of a trained civilian and a trained soldier?
There are many but the one that is most significant is THE WILLPOWER TO KILL,the civilian maybe trained but he is not prepared mentally to pull the triger he may hasitate or "froze" thats why he cannot actually defend himself in a messy situation,lets use an example..

You are in your house a hardcore criminal brakes in to rob and/or kill you.
You grab your gun and get ready to blow the fucker away,but think a for a second,your adrenalin is pumping and you trembling,you are not doing this every day....(you may actually miss or just wound the guy then you are DEAD)
the guy comes in and you aim him he aims you too and you stare one another...
You are a dentist and the guy is a killer who do you think will prevail?yes the dentist MAY get lucky,i would bet on the killer though.

Another big problem is the ichy triger type you got a gun but your reactions are not controlled this is the most certain way to kill your wife(that may be actually good:p) or your son:ohno: ruther than a criminal.

And the list can go on but i think you get the picture....

If you will get in the trouble to train yourself and continiously keep training both mentaly and physicaly for hard situations,well go ahead and own a gun.But i am most certain that in the process of training you will find out that you dont need it.

In a live conflict between a trained guy without a gun and an untrained guy with a gun its almost certain that the untrained armed guy will get his gun up his ass and thats a FACT.

Get out of the "i own a gun i can fuck anyone" mentality YOU ARE NOT IN A BLOODY MOVIE.

If you develope the right mentality and train you can kill a threat with your bare hands thats a fact too.(doesnt matter if you are male or female)

And for the moral closing of the reply i have this:

Please leave the guns aside there are more effiecient and cost efective ways to kill :D

Gloomrender
06-07-2008, 03:46
Epic stoopid.

OvanOf Twilight
06-07-2008, 03:51
Mefistofelis is quite right, guns do not make you immortal like epic level weapons do in WoW.
I compete heavily in Tae-Kwon-Do and frankly if any of the moderate-high/high level fighters decided to take on someone who is untrained with a gun they will 9.5/10 times beat the crap out of them, get the gun and then kill the person who thought the gun made them safe.
So really the best way to defend yourself regardless of gender is to train in a certain area like martial arts or even with guns so that you are quite experinced otherwise it's useless and even dangerous to yourself.

Gloomrender
06-07-2008, 03:58
Double epic stoopid.

I could teach your moms to operate a gun in less than a day.

Thrill_KIll
06-07-2008, 04:05
Mefistofelis is quite right, guns do not make you immortal like epic level weapons do in WoW.
I compete heavily in Tae-Kwon-Do and frankly if any of the moderate-high/high level fighters decided to take on someone who is untrained with a gun they will 9.5/10 times beat the crap out of them, get the gun and then kill the person who thought the gun made them safe.
So really the best way to defend yourself regardless of gender is to train in a certain area like martial arts or even with guns so that you are quite experinced otherwise it's useless and even dangerous to yourself.


Check this out Bruce Lee. The next time you want to make up some stupid ass shit because you've seen "Enter the Dragon" one too many times, go somewhere else, please?


OMFG.....give me one pistol, and I'll own your whole fucking Tae Kwon Do class. And no, I'm not threatening you...I'm stating a fact you seem to have missed due to watching Walker, Texas Ranger.

Traep
06-07-2008, 04:05
It appears that it was pretty beneficial for this woman to have a gun. This also sounds like a situation which you're not likely to ever be in unless you live in a pretty bad area. But still, if there is going to be any place where having a gun would be okay I think it would be locked up in your house. It seems like pro-gun people want to be able to have guns everywhere, all the time. I think it's a lot different when you have every joe on the street walking around with a gun under their shirt than when you have all those same people with a gun locked up in their home.

It also seems like pro-gun people tend to be for making every type of gun legal. This woman didn't need anything more than a hand gun right? Why would we need to make automatic weapons legal? You can say we need them so we can revolt against the government if necessary but, yeah, that's a pretty extreme view if you think that's necessary. The founding fathers even said in the Declaration of Independence that revolution isn't something to be entered into without very good reason.

I think the whole problem with this issue comes from people on the extremes. Some people think guns can only do wrong and should be banished from the planet and others think we need to all have tanks in our back yards and carry around uzis at all times. What's so bad with a healthy dose of regulation so that, you know, your neighbor can't own a bazooka or the alcoholic down the street who has been to jail twice can't get his hands on a gun at all?

And I still am not sure about tasers. My friend is an officer and claims that 99% of the time the person will go down.

EDIT: Sorry for not reading all of this predictable thread but I'm short on time.

Erroneous
06-07-2008, 04:06
Mefistofelis is quite right, guns do not make you immortal like epic level weapons do in WoW.
I compete heavily in Tae-Kwon-Do and frankly if any of the moderate-high/high level fighters decided to take on someone who is untrained with a gun they will 9.5/10 times beat the crap out of them, get the gun and then kill the person who thought the gun made them safe.
So really the best way to defend yourself regardless of gender is to train in a certain area like martial arts or even with guns so that you are quite experinced otherwise it's useless and even dangerous to yourself.

Ok that's bullshit and you most likely know it, imagine the number of instances where a confrontations will begin outside of your reach.

Death's Chill
06-07-2008, 04:13
I would not say that i am the expert for the subdject but i would like to give you some points of view that mostly come out of my training at the army.

In Greece we all serve the army for a time period of 18 months and get some education on warfare and arms my sector was heavy arms marksman and i also passed the snipers school.

The fact you accept that you're forced to server for over a year and a half is sick.


How many of you have actually wondered what a gun is?
A gun in the hands of a civilian is...
1)Dangerous (NO,simple training on how to handle it doesnt make it less dangerous,its a bloody myth)
2)A simple morale boost (Look i have a big gun i am immortall)

That's funny. Hilarious. It's called point and shoot, oh and click the safety off. Anyone can use a gun, it takes a few minutes to understand its "intricate" workings. :rolleyes:


A gun in the hands of a REALLY WELL TRAINED soldier-law enforcer is
1)A tool that he can use to boost already learned abilities.

Too bad they won't be there until after you're dead, if you even have the change to call them.


So whats the big difference of a trained civilian and a trained soldier?
There are many but the one that is most significant is THE WILLPOWER TO KILL,the civilian maybe trained but he is not prepared mentally to pull the triger he may hasitate or "froze" thats why he cannot actually defend himself in a messy situation,lets use an example..

There were at least 700,000 reports of citizens defending themselves with a firearm last year. Please, give me a break.


You are in your house a hardcore criminal brakes in to rob and/or kill you.
You grab your gun and get ready to blow the fucker away,but think a for a second,your adrenalin is pumping and you trembling,you are not doing this every day....(you may actually miss or just wound the guy then you are DEAD)
the guy comes in and you aim him he aims you too and you stare one another...
You are a dentist and the guy is a killer who do you think will prevail?yes the dentist MAY get lucky,i would bet on the killer though.

That is not the point. No one has ever made the claim that a gun makes you invincible, and in a lot of situations it wouldn't be helpful at all, but in just as many other situations it could provide immeasurable help to you or your loved ones.


Another big problem is the ichy triger type you got a gun but your reactions are not controlled this is the most certain way to kill your wife(that may be actually good:p) or your son:ohno: ruther than a criminal.

And the list can go on but i think you get the picture....

Accidents happen in every facet of life. It's no argument to ban something.


If you will get in the trouble to train yourself and continiously keep training both mentaly and physicaly for hard situations,well go ahead and own a gun.But i am most certain that in the process of training you will find out that you dont need it.

Yes, because people train themselves with the mind frame that they won't need their training. That makes sense. :rolleyes:


In a live conflict between a trained guy without a gun and an untrained guy with a gun its almost certain that the untrained armed guy will get his gun up his ass and thats a FACT.

What is your point? It is not so simple, it's not a math issue where the answer is a simple, one point in reference, it's life. There are a googleplex of possibilities, luck, time of day, personal drama, etcetera... they all play a role. It's not just about training.

In fact, the mere act of possessing a gun is usually enough to deter most criminals.


Get out of the "i own a gun i can fuck anyone" mentality YOU ARE NOT IN A BLOODY MOVIE.


Very few people adopt such a mentality. Again, no one is claiming that a gun makes you invincible, just more protected.

It's the same as wearing a bicycle helmet, only the consequences of not owning a gun can be much more dire if you happen to be one of those unlucky people.


If you develope the right mentality and train you can kill a threat with your bare hands thats a fact too.(doesnt matter if you are male or female)

Actually, most males are physically superior to nearly all females, though of course there are always exceptions, that's just how our bodies were designed. A gun for a female is the only way to really level the playing field, and if she's really serious about protecting herself she'd get a knife as well.


And for the moral closing of the reply i have this:

Please leave the guns aside there are more effiecient and cost efective ways to kill :D

It's just this simple. Guns are an effective tool in a lot of situations, and ineffective in others, just as any other tool. There are a multitude of weapons you can use for self-defense, tazers, guns, knives, or even pepper spray if you just don't want to hurt your attack for some reason. Just because they do not make you invincible however, is no reason to forgo procuring yourself one, nor is it reason enough to ban them.

mefistofelis
06-07-2008, 04:15
Double epic stoopid.

I could teach your moms to operate a gun in less than a day.

Between operating a gun and actually shooting to kill there is a LOOONG way.

Gloomrender
06-07-2008, 04:16
Between operating a gun and actually shooting to kill there is a LOOONG way.

Implicit in my post was learning to aim.

You put the sight on the center mass, and pull the trigger repeatedly. Easy.

Thrill_KIll
06-07-2008, 04:24
Between operating a gun and actually shooting to kill there is a LOOONG way.


And between living or dying, people find nerve they never knew they had. Your argument goes both ways, bud.

mefistofelis
06-07-2008, 04:34
Implicit in my post was learning to aim.

You put the sight on the center mass, and pull the trigger repeatedly. Easy.

Yes unless your target is a mile away:p

Simmy
06-07-2008, 04:36
Yes unless your target is a mile away:p

Then there is no reason for you to be shooting at said target. The point of this conversation is using a gun in a situation where you are threatened. I find it hard to believe someone is going to beat you from a mile away.

mefistofelis
06-07-2008, 04:45
Then there is no reason for you to be shooting at said target. The point of this conversation is using a gun in a situation where you are threatened. I find it hard to believe someone is going to beat you from a mile away.

Ye i know it was a funny remark on how hard can it be to simply shoot in a certain situation :D

Gloomrender
06-07-2008, 05:00
Ye i know it was a funny remark on how hard can it be to simply shoot in a certain situation :D

That makes no sense. In self defense situations you're dealing with 10 yards back to point blank, generally. What I said works just fine for that.

mefistofelis
06-07-2008, 05:16
And between living or dying, people find nerve they never knew they had. Your argument goes both ways, bud.

No they wont they will most likely loose control they will be way less efficient in their reactions and loosing control equals death in a case like that.

Why do they put stuntmans in the movies?cause they are TRAINED to do the stunts and they can maintain CONTROL in situations of danger.

Is it probable that in a life or death situation a normal person can make it through?Yes it is,with luck...but as i said i wouldnt bet on it,i put my money to skill over luck.

Simmy
06-07-2008, 05:25
No they wont they will most likely loose control they will be way less efficient in their reactions and loosing control equals death in a case like that.

Why do they put stuntmans in the movies?cause they are TRAINED to do the stunts and they can maintain CONTROL in situations of danger.

Is it probable that in a life or death situation a normal person can make it through?Yes it is,with luck...but as i said i wouldnt bet on it,i put my money to skill over luck.

It happens all the time, I think your vastly underestimating people in their compacity to protect heir own lives. As for the stuntman part, maybe its because they dont want the possibility of the star of the movie getting hurt. And I have a hard time believing that the perpetrator of teh crime will stay in control either, just because you have the upper hand in a situation doesn't mean you have control in it.

Ragnika
06-07-2008, 05:35
The problem in this case, as bold and valiant as it may be, is that you're going to be fearing using it; as even if it saved your life, you'd be jailed for years because you used an illegal weapon, and were carrying one too. At least two or three charges right there. It's truly sick if you ask me.

Lol no, I won't.

huapua
06-07-2008, 07:27
I would never use a gun. It has nothing to do with whether or not a theoretical society would do better without them, or the 2nd amendment giving the right to bear arms only to those in a well regulated milita.

No I am not proficent in the art of sweet-asian flying drunken-masturbating crane style, and im not very strong.

Then why you might ask?

1. Because I aint old/handicapped
2. Because I am not a paranoid schizophrenic
b. Because im not a woman
1532. Because blow-dart guns are way cooler!

Guns are like cheating in a video game. Its cheap, and dosnt prove anything.

With all the laws that prevent you from running around with a loaded gun in your pocket, I highly doubt id ever be put in a situation where I would have the time to whip out my gun and fire at someone who already has a gun on me.

-Jotun
06-07-2008, 07:54
I'm sure glad my state isnt fucking stupid and realize people do things like oh, BREAK INTO PEOPLES HOUSES in the middle of the night constantly

What better way to own some bitches than with a gun? Try breaking into my house and say some shit like death's chill said and I'd blow your head off.

Guns are your friend. Nobody fucks with you with one, and using it for offense should be easily out of the question to anyone who has one with a sane mind.

Death's Chill
06-07-2008, 09:50
Lol no, I won't.

Well, unless you flee the scene, yes you will. :(

Fro
06-07-2008, 11:29
People are never going to learn.

Matriel
06-07-2008, 14:11
First off, mefistofelis, you're retarded. You're trying to talk about guns experience from a military that hasn't seen real conflict since the best weapons were spears. The hands down best motherfuckers I've met with using guns are civilians. That includes Force Recon, Rangers, regular infantry whatever. Military training is a lot of the time far less comprehensive than civilian firearms classes. They also have different aspects that aren't as comparable. In short, you have no fucking idea what you're talking about.



It appears that it was pretty beneficial for this woman to have a gun. This also sounds like a situation which you're not likely to ever be in unless you live in a pretty bad area. But still, if there is going to be any place where having a gun would be okay I think it would be locked up in your house. It seems like pro-gun people want to be able to have guns everywhere, all the time. I think it's a lot different when you have every joe on the street walking around with a gun under their shirt than when you have all those same people with a gun locked up in their home.

Millions of people in America carry guns under their shirts every day without causing problems (legally) and even stop crimes. Yet, somehow they should still have to keep them locked up because some chump has an irrational fear of the situation.


It also seems like pro-gun people tend to be for making every type of gun legal. This woman didn't need anything more than a hand gun right? Why would we need to make automatic weapons legal? You can say we need them so we can revolt against the government if necessary but, yeah, that's a pretty extreme view if you think that's necessary. The founding fathers even said in the Declaration of Independence that revolution isn't something to be entered into without very good reason.

Yet they also said that revolution would be needed didn't they. If we're going to use Founding Fathers quotes, let's use all of them.

Zomg, those automatic weapons are so dangerous. So dangerous that no class III registered weapon has been used in a crime. You also had better never go to the Knob Creek private machine gun shoot. That much firepower in civilian hands is just a massacre waiting to happen. :rolleyes:


I think the whole problem with this issue comes from people on the extremes. Some people think guns can only do wrong and should be banished from the planet and others think we need to all have tanks in our back yards and carry around uzis at all times. What's so bad with a healthy dose of regulation so that, you know, your neighbor can't own a bazooka or the alcoholic down the street who has been to jail twice can't get his hands on a gun at all?

There is already a "healthy" dose of regulation. That's what cracks me the fuck up about your idiots. You act like there is no current gun control in America when there's literally thousands of laws on the books as it is. Laws that have been proven over and over to be pointless.

And since you're obviously ignorant of what you're talking about, prior felons and people convicted of violent crimes and domestic violence are barred from buying guns. Yet they still get them. So, I guess we need more laws that don't work. :bang:


And I still am not sure about tasers. My friend is an officer and claims that 99% of the time the person will go down.

EDIT: Sorry for not reading all of this predictable thread but I'm short on time.

Does he still carry a gun? GG.



With all the laws that prevent you from running around with a loaded gun in your pocket, I highly doubt id ever be put in a situation where I would have the time to whip out my gun and fire at someone who already has a gun on me.

I posted a link earlier in this thread of a 70 year old man killing two attackers that had him already at gunpoint. Please learn about real training before opening cock holster. Thanks!

You know, I never comment on shit I don't know anything about. Like high level math, philosophy, programming past basic scripting, etc. I just can't understand why so many ignorant motherfuckers are ready to give opinions on firearms when they don't know shit about them.

mefistofelis
06-07-2008, 14:40
First off, mefistofelis, you're retarded. You're trying to talk about guns experience from a military that hasn't seen real conflict since the best weapons were spears. The hands down best motherfuckers I've met with using guns are civilians. That includes Force Recon, Rangers, regular infantry whatever. Military training is a lot of the time far less comprehensive than civilian firearms classes. They also have different aspects that aren't as comparable. In short, you have no fucking idea what you're talking about.




Millions of people in America carry guns under their shirts every day without causing problems (legally) and even stop crimes. Yet, somehow they should still have to keep them locked up because some chump has an irrational fear of the situation.



Yet they also said that revolution would be needed didn't they. If we're going to use Founding Fathers quotes, let's use all of them.

Zomg, those automatic weapons are so dangerous. So dangerous that no class III registered weapon has been used in a crime. You also had better never go to the Knob Creek private machine gun shoot. That much firepower in civilian hands is just a massacre waiting to happen. :rolleyes:



There is already a "healthy" dose of regulation. That's what cracks me the fuck up about your idiots. You act like there is no current gun control in America when there's literally thousands of laws on the books as it is. Laws that have been proven over and over to be pointless.

And since you're obviously ignorant of what you're talking about, prior felons and people convicted of violent crimes and domestic violence are barred from buying guns. Yet they still get them. So, I guess we need more laws that don't work. :bang:



Does he still carry a gun? GG.



I posted a link earlier in this thread of a 70 year old man killing two attackers that had him already at gunpoint. Please learn about real training before opening cock holster. Thanks!

You know, I never comment on shit I don't know anything about. Like high level math, philosophy, programming past basic scripting, etc. I just can't understand why so many ignorant motherfuckers are ready to give opinions on firearms when they don't know shit about them.

ENJOY:D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLzo9pOXa-s

Matriel
06-07-2008, 14:50
ENJOY:D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLzo9pOXa-s

Funny satire, but nowhere close to being historically accurate.

I liked their NRA argument. Although the funny part is that it was started by Union generals to teach marksmanship because the Union notoriously sucked balls at it.

Fro
06-07-2008, 14:52
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTAADW9wNvk&feature=related


Got her a compact 9mm, and we are going to the range this weekend. She had a friend email her the above link, and told me she was not going to wind up a statistic.


Edit:

That fucking 911 call will send fucking shivers down your spine.

Is your girlfreind being stalked?

Xinnro
06-07-2008, 14:54
I prefer men around my age or younger. Please no one over 65. I am NOT in this to offend people, but we all have our attractions and preferences. I lust for amazing oral sex, I enjoy massaging athletic, hard bodies ... I am exploring my sexuality, complicated by schedules or ambiguity when I am nervous. 5'6 ft 120 pounds red hair green eyes big boobs nice smile. You must be able to handle the needs of a real female, & can hold a sensible conversation minus the slangbullshit.

Thrill_KIll
06-07-2008, 16:56
Is your girlfreind being stalked?


Actually, she was prior to when we started seeing each other. Her physcho ex husband, who she had left due to his stupid ass meth addiction, played quite the retard. Until I explained the facts of life to him, that is.


But people keep missing the point, she is not paranoid about things. She doesn't want to get a permit to carry one on her, even though in Mississippi you don't need a permit to carry a weapon in your vehicle. She simply wants one to keep in the bedroom just in case something ever did happen.

Incidentily, the state considers your car your "place of being", just like your house, and says you have every right to defend it and yourself while in it. IN other words, as long as you are over the age of 18, and it is a legal weapon, you can have a freaking arsenal with you. Yet, my state just doesn't have the violent crime problem other states do, even though EVERYONE has firearms in their vehicles, on their persons, and in their houses. Hell, people still wave to each other on the streets here.


Also, to people saying tazers are just as effective....ROFL. Tell you what, I have a .410 shotgun that my son used when he first started shooting. I will get some rat shot (I don't want to kill anyone), and you can have a tazer. Let's see who wins.

Fro
06-07-2008, 17:01
Actually, she was prior to when we started seeing each other. Her physcho ex husband, who she had left due to his stupid ass meth addiction, played quite the retard. Until I explained the facts of life to him, that is.


But people keep missing the point, she is not paranoid about things. She doesn't want to get a permit to carry one on her, even though in Mississippi you don't need a permit to carry a weapon in your vehicle. She simply wants one to keep in the bedroom just in case something ever did happen.

Incidentily, the state considers your car your "place of being", just like your house, and says you have every right to defend it and yourself while in it. IN other words, as long as you are over the age of 18, and it is a legal weapon, you can have a freaking arsenal with you. Yet, my state just doesn't have the violent crime problem other states do, even though EVERYONE has firearms in their vehicles, on their persons, and in their houses. Hell, people still wave to each other on the streets here.


Also, to people saying tazers are just as effective....ROFL. Tell you what, I have a .410 shotgun that my son used when he first started shooting. I will get some rat shot (I don't want to kill anyone), and you can have a tazer. Let's see who wins.

Havent we already agreed that i could beat anyone with any firearm using my bare hands? I still dont understand why everyone seems ot need a firearm in America for self defence.
I still dont understand.

Matriel
06-07-2008, 17:10
Havent we already agreed that i could beat anyone with any firearm using my bare hands? I still dont understand why everyone seems ot need a firearm in America for self defence.
I still dont understand.

Too bad dueling isn't legal here. I'd pay for the plane ticket to prove you wrong. :sly:

Thrill_KIll
06-07-2008, 17:14
Havent we already agreed that i could beat anyone with any firearm using my bare hands? I still dont understand why everyone seems ot need a firearm in America for self defence.
I still dont understand.



LMAO

Well, my girl friend does not have your hands of death bro.

Fro
06-07-2008, 17:15
LMAO

Well, my girl friend does not have your hands of death bro.

I would lend her them but they're very expensive.

III [C*D]
06-07-2008, 17:32
First off, mefistofelis, you're retarded. You're trying to talk about guns experience from a military that hasn't seen real conflict since the best weapons were spears. The hands down best motherfuckers I've met with using guns are civilians. That includes Force Recon, Rangers, regular infantry whatever. Military training is a lot of the time far less comprehensive than civilian firearms classes. They also have different aspects that aren't as comparable. In short, you have no fucking idea what you're talking about.




Millions of people in America carry guns under their shirts every day without causing problems (legally) and even stop crimes. Yet, somehow they should still have to keep them locked up because some chump has an irrational fear of the situation.



Yet they also said that revolution would be needed didn't they. If we're going to use Founding Fathers quotes, let's use all of them.

Zomg, those automatic weapons are so dangerous. So dangerous that no class III registered weapon has been used in a crime. You also had better never go to the Knob Creek private machine gun shoot. That much firepower in civilian hands is just a massacre waiting to happen. :rolleyes:



There is already a "healthy" dose of regulation. That's what cracks me the fuck up about your idiots. You act like there is no current gun control in America when there's literally thousands of laws on the books as it is. Laws that have been proven over and over to be pointless.




Does he still carry a gun? GG.



I posted a link earlier in this thread of a 70 year old man killing two attackers that had him already at gunpoint. Please learn about real training before opening cock holster. Thanks!

You know, I never comment on shit I don't know anything about. Like high level math, philosophy, programming past basic scripting, etc. I just can't understand why so many ignorant motherfuckers are ready to give opinions on firearms when they don't know shit about them.

I found the biggest flaw in your argument, the flaw that ultimately proves guns need to be out of the hands of civilians.

First let me start by agreeing with you, based on the experience shared with me by a good friend, a TFTT instructor. Just a quick back ground, Rick is Marine Recon, served in more countries then I can name and is basically just one of those dudes who talks, and you listen. So somebody coming here who has just finished "basic" but never has seen combat... keep reading.

About 5 years ago he was hired to flash train about 30 army grunts who just finished basic. They were going to be shipped to Iraq about 2 weeks after the training, so you could imagine these guys were paying attention. After about a day, he quickly figured out that these dudes knew nothing about marksmanship, as only 1 out of 30 could even zero in their scope. After the two weeks, each soldier gave Rick a teary hug because he had basically saved their lives, he taught them to shoot as it applies to combat.

Now, your flaw. To me, you're the typical NRA gun supporter, who writes very well thought out, very well preserved and easy to understand statements about our rights under the 2nd amendment... something that could easily sway support in the NRA's direction simply because, well it sounds good right?

You can quote the 2nd amendment all you want, as stated, the 2nd amendment was a law formed supporting organized milita. Why? The times required it. People don't seem to realize that in those days, you probably liveed in an area where the closest law enforcement lived 50 miles away and has to ride a horse to get to you. There are also no phones, so you would have send somebody 50 miles to even fetch them and they would have to be there for them to become available. So it's not like you could lock your door call the police, you basically has no choice but to defend yourself against many threats that simply don't exist today. Are we under attack by a foreign nation? Are we under threat of savage Indian tribes raiding our frontier regions? These are the reasons people has the right to bear arms.... please read on.

The 2nd amendment in it's current bastardization, allows people like Matriel to carry a fire arm, and based off of his speech on the subject I would say this is "okay." He seems to know what he is doing. It also gives these people the right the bear arms.

- Any gang banger who is smart enough to get a hold of a gun, or knows somebody who knows how to get a hold of a gun.

- Any psycho who is just as versed as Matriel, but would use his knowledge to climb a water tower and kill 30+ college students, assassinate a president, or rob a bank taking out 20+ people in the process. Got kids? How about Columbine? Goth emo kids definitely have the right to bear arms, and kill your kid at school.

- Have a depressed friend? Guess what! His worries are over, he has the right to bear arms! He can stick that 12 gauge in his mouth and pull the trigger, problem solved... good ol' second.

The flaw? Sure, Civilians potentially could have more training then even our military in the use of fire arms, specifically when it comes to shooting competitions or game hunting. Each could also potentially be the same psycho who is going to show up at your local grocery store and take our 10 blue light shoppers.

It's real simple, remove guns from all civilian hands and the potential for these crimes happening all but disappears. I have a hard time believing that your neighborhood psycho is going to show up at the local grocery store with a tazer and take more then.. well more then himself.

Your logic is this. I support these things (mass shootings) because it also allows me to have a weapon in my house/car for defense. Are you telling me there is some way of filtering out pyscho's from getting a gun, or a gang banger? As long as you have easy access to them, so do they. Is your life more important then anybody else's? Why I'm sure you believe it is I would like you to sit down with a parent who has lost a child due to a shooting and explain to them that your important then little Jimmy, so you are okay with their kid being dead.

You said if your self:



And since you're obviously ignorant of what you're talking about, prior felons and people convicted of violent crimes and domestic violence are barred from buying guns. Yet they still get them. So, I guess we need more laws that don't work. :bang:

Guns are simply to available, to easy to get and the only solutions is for them not to be made available to civilians, period. Even with perfect gun laws, a law abiding eligible gun owner will buy a gun and then go on vacation. While on vacation his house will be robbed, his gun stolen and the paradox continues.

Ragnika
06-07-2008, 17:38
Well, unless you flee the scene, yes you will. :(

I still won't fear using it if it's absolutely necessary. The possibility of being arrested should never deter anybody from saving a life, especially your own.

Thrill_KIll
06-07-2008, 17:46
;1388094']I found the biggest flaw in your argument, the flaw that ultimately proves guns need to be out of the hands of civilians.

First let me start by agreeing with you, based on the experience shared with me by a good friend, a TFTT instructor. Just a quick back ground, Rick is Marine Recon, served in more countries then I can name and is basically just one of those dudes who talks, and you listen. So somebody coming here who has just finished "basic" but never has seen combat... keep reading.

About 5 years ago he was hired to flash train about 30 army grunts who just finished basic. They were going to be shipped to Iraq about 2 weeks after the training, so you could imagine these guys were paying attention. After about a day, he quickly figured out that these dudes knew nothing about marksmanship, as only 1 out of 30 could even zero in their scope. After the two weeks, each soldier gave Rick a teary hug because he had basically saved their lives, he taught them to shoot as it applies to combat.

Now, your flaw. To me, you're the typical NRA gun supporter, who writes very well thought out, very well preserved and easy to understand statements about our rights under the 2nd amendment... something that could easily sway support in the NRA's direction simply because, well it sounds good right?

You can quote the 2nd amendment all you want, as stated, the 2nd amendment was a law formed supporting organized milita. Why? The times required it. People don't seem to realize that in those days, you probably liveed in an area where the closest law enforcement lived 50 miles away and has to ride a horse to get to you. There are also no phones, so you would have send somebody 50 miles to even fetch them and they would have to be there for them to become available. So it's not like you could lock your door call the police, you basically has no choice but to defend yourself against many threats that simply don't exist today. Are we under attack by a foreign nation? Are we under threat of savage Indian tribes raiding our frontier regions? These are the reasons people has the right to bear arms.... please read on.

The 2nd amendment in it's current bastardization, allows people like Matriel to carry a fire arm, and based off of his speech on the subject I would say this is "okay." He seems to know what he is doing. It also gives these people the right the bear arms.

- Any gang banger who is smart enough to get a hold of a gun, or knows somebody who knows how to get a hold of a gun.

- Any psycho who is just as versed as Matriel, but would use his knowledge to climb a water tower and kill 30+ college students, assassinate a president, or rob a bank taking out 20+ people in the process. Got kids? How about Columbine? Goth emo kids definitely have the right to bear arms, and kill your kid at school.

- Have a depressed friend? Guess what! His worries are over, he has the right to bear arms! He can stick that 12 gauge in his mouth and pull the trigger, problem solved... good ol' second.

The flaw? Sure, Civilians potentially could have more training then even our military in the use of fire arms, specifically when it comes to shooting competitions or game hunting. Each could also potentially be the same psycho who is going to show up at your local grocery store and take our 10 blue light shoppers.

It's real simple, remove guns from all civilian hands and the potential for these crimes happening all but disappears. I have a hard time believing that your neighborhood psycho is going to show up at the local grocery store with a tazer and take more then.. well more then himself.

Your logic is this. I support these things (mass shootings) because it also allows me to have a weapon in my house/car for defense. Are you telling me there is some way of filtering out pyscho's from getting a gun, or a gang banger? As long as you have easy access to them, so do they. Is your life more important then anybody else's? Why I'm sure you believe it is I would like you to sit down with a parent who has lost a child due to a shooting and explain to them that your important then little Jimmy, so you are okay with their kid being dead.

Wow....you are a funny ass dude.

Where was "Rick" stationed at as a Marine, training Army soldiers? You do realise that the Army is home to most of the SFG schools, and 3 sniper schools, right? As cadre, I helped train more marines and foreign soldiers than you can imagine. WAYYY more than "30 grunts". You are just flat out full of shit. And I'm calling you on it.

Also, the 2nd ammendment has to do with the STATE'S RIGHT to maintain a militia, ANDDDDDD (wait for it) the !!PEOPLE'S RIGHT!! to bear arms. Both are there to give each the ability to help defend the country, AND the ability to defend themselves from the federal government. You keep harping on the Bill of Rights, yet use the most selective reading of it I have ever seen to conform to your beliefs.

You have no clue what you are talking about. You refuse to acknowledge history, crime statistics, demographics and their effects had on crime when they passed stricter gun laws or banned them, and most importantly, expect us to go along that you are wayyy smarter than the guys who made this country?

People like you is why I could NEVER live in California. I would go insane being surrounded by so much stupidity.

Death's Chill
06-07-2008, 17:50
I still won't fear using it if it's absolutely necessary. The possibility of being arrested should never deter anybody from saving a life, especially your own.

Why save my life if it will only involve me in a dark damp cell for the years to come?

Now, saving someone else's life? Perhaps it would be worth it then.

III [C*D]
06-07-2008, 17:58
Wow....you are a funny ass dude.

Where was "Rick" stationed at as a Marine, training Army soldiers? You do realise that the Army is home to most of the SFG schools, and 3 sniper schools, right? As cadre, I helped train more marines and foreign soldiers than you can imagine. WAYYY more than "30 grunts". You are just flat out full of shit. And I'm calling you on it.

Also, the 2nd ammendment has to do with the STATE'S RIGHT to maintain a militia, ANDDDDDD (wait for it) the !!PEOPLE'S RIGHT!! to bear arms. Both are there to give each the ability to help defend the country, AND the ability to defend themselves from the federal government. You keep harping on the Bill of Rights, yet use the most selective reading of it I have ever seen to conform to your beliefs.

You have no clue what you are talking about. You refuse to acknowledge history, crime statistics, demographics and their effects had on crime when they passed stricter gun laws or banned them, and most importantly, expect us to go along that you are wayyy smarter than the guys who made this country?

People like you is why I could NEVER live in California. I would go insane being surrounded by so much stupidity.

I like how you accuse me of picking out the points I want, but then do the exact same thing to my post. The fact that you are "picking" on California only further proves you are some sort of outland "rebel." Califorina, with its beaches, near perfect weather and high society mixed with up North good "ol fashion" living is bad? If you would like to accuse me of not reading, then turn that finger right around hank.

Rick is retired from the Marine core, and the point was that as a civilian instructor he was able to provide in certain circumstances better training then the military. So, please take a pill. By the way Rick is in Iraq right now as Civilian contractor earning a great living and doing his patriotic duty while your sitting on your ass playing forumfall, so please don't try insult somebodies honor when you clearly have none.

Just stomping your feet and shaking your fists isn't going to change my mind, and you totally ignored the facts as to why people had the "right to bear arm" that I pointed out. Are we under attack by a foreign nation? Are we under threat of savage Indian tribes raiding our home stead?

So, while you think Kentucky is a much better place to live then California, I lol at you and will be enjoying my 75 degree dry heat today. No wind, blue skies and the smell of the ocean. Yes, it is truly a horrible place to live... not to mention I am so afraid of my neighbors that I own a small arsenal so that I defend myself, from them or the evil government! I'm sorry, but you really honestly believe you're going to defend yourself against tanks and fighter jets with your government regulated firearms.... much less organized ground forces? The south will rise again.. amirite?

Do yourself a favor, go rent Red Dawn, realize that Patrick Swayze is a bad actor and that it's just a movie. Stop watching movies like Heat, Bad Boys, and the Transporter... go to Church, find Jesus and stop being a jack ass.

III [C*D]
06-07-2008, 18:00
Why save my life if it will only involve me in a dark damp cell for the years to come?

Now, saving someone else's life? Perhaps it would be worth it then.

He has clearly never served more then a day in jail to think it would be "okay" to end somebodies life, even it lands them in prison for 5-20.

Let's keep "saving lives" into the hands of professionals. You want to save lives? Put your kids through college, read the Bible and be a good example.

Senti
06-07-2008, 18:02
Lol.

I'm going to poke my head in really quickly and say, when you remove guns from the hands of the law abiding citizens, the only people with guns are those that don't obey the law.

Law Abiding citizens without guns + Criminals with guns = More murder, tyvm.

III [C*D]
06-07-2008, 18:05
Lol.

I'm going to poke my head in really quickly and say, when you remove guns from the hands of the law abiding citizens, the only people with guns are those that don't obey the law.

Law Abiding citizens without guns + Criminals with guns = More murder, tyvm.

Yes because on a daily basis more law abiding citizens are stoping crimes then non law abiding citizens are committing them. Please find some logic before you poke your head in.

If you make the punishment for crimes involving guns so intense that people would be more and more deterred from using a gun in a crime, and ACTIVELY get them out of the hands of civilians... yes things WILL get better.

Simmy
06-07-2008, 18:05
;1388164']Let's keep "saving lives" into the hands of professionals. You want to save lives? Put your kids through college, read the Bible and be a good example.

So if you come upon the scene of a car accident and you have some general first aid knowledge you should not stop to help? Just keep driving because the ambulance will arrive... eventually.

III [C*D]
06-07-2008, 18:06
So if you come upon the scene of a car accident and you have some general first aid knowledge you should not stop to help? Just keep driving because the ambulance will arrive... eventually.

Way to take it way out of context. I'm sorry what part of that scenario involves a gun?

Simmy
06-07-2008, 18:07
;1388188']Way to take it way out of context. I'm sorry what part of that scenario involves a gun?

I know I just wanted to point out the general error of that particular wording for that argument.

Death's Chill
06-07-2008, 18:12
;1388164']He has clearly never served more then a day in jail to think it would be "okay" to end somebodies life, even it lands them in prison for 5-20.

Let's keep "saving lives" into the hands of professionals. You want to save lives? Put your kids through college, read the Bible and be a good example.


I agree with the first part. I honestly fear more being put in jail because I used an illegal gun to defend myself more than any would-be criminal.

When you fear the fucking government more than criminals, you know something is seriously wrong.

III [C*D]
06-07-2008, 18:12
I know I just wanted to point out the general error of that particular wording for that argument.

The context of this thread is guns, not car accidents. Context... learn it.

Ragnika
06-07-2008, 18:26
;1388164']He has clearly never served more then a day in jail to think it would be "okay" to end somebodies life, even it lands them in prison for 5-20.

Let's keep "saving lives" into the hands of professionals. You want to save lives? Put your kids through college, read the Bible and be a good example.

:lmao:...seriously...

Spinewire
06-07-2008, 18:27
Lol, or because it's logistically impossible for that small amount of people to be able to protect everyone else in the country. But hey, no need to inject reality into your irrational mind.
reality is for the weak

Thrill_KIll
06-07-2008, 18:34
Ok, let's illustrate why you are full of shit then.




;1388094']First let me start by agreeing with you, based on the experience shared with me by a good friend, a TFTT instructor. Just a quick back ground, Rick is Marine Recon, served in more countries then I can name and is basically just one of those dudes who talks, and you listen. So somebody coming here who has just finished "basic" but never has seen combat... keep reading.

About 5 years ago he was hired to flash train about 30 army grunts who just finished basic.

Soldiers are not shipped anywhere after basic, except to AIT (Advanced Individual Training). So, it appears either you are Rick are already lying out your ass from the get go. Moreso, any combat arms MOS's AIT revolved HEAVILY around their respective weapon systems, whether it be small arms, or rocket systems.



;1388094']They were going to be shipped to Iraq about 2 weeks after the training, so you could imagine these guys were paying attention. After about a day, he quickly figured out that these dudes knew nothing about marksmanship, as only 1 out of 30 could even zero in their scope.

Infantry troop's M-16s do not have scopes on them. If a soldier had a scoped weapon, then he was most assuredly from sniper school. So you and Rick are trying to say sniper school graduates could not even zero their own scope? Also, the first week of BRM (Basic Rifle Marksmanship) during basic is nothing but learning how to zero your weapon.



;1388094']After the two weeks, each soldier gave Rick a teary hug because he had basically saved their lives, he taught them to shoot as it applies to combat.

I think we have no established your story is complete BS, and now yo are try to use emotions to make people believe you are right. Fuck off arm chair Rambo



;1388094']You can quote the 2nd amendment all you want, as stated, the 2nd amendment was a law formed supporting organized milita. Why? The times required it. People don't seem to realize that in those days, you probably liveed in an area where the closest law enforcement lived 50 miles away and has to ride a horse to get to you. There are also no phones, so you would have send somebody 50 miles to even fetch them and they would have to be there for them to become available. So it's not like you could lock your door call the police, you basically has no choice but to defend yourself against many threats that simply don't exist today. Are we under attack by a foreign nation? Are we under threat of savage Indian tribes raiding our frontier regions? These are the reasons people has the right to bear arms.... please read on.


Sorry, but I LOVE how simple these guys can make a point you refuse to accept:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YY5Rj4cQ50






;1388094']The 2nd amendment in it's current bastardization, allows people like Matriel to carry a fire arm, and based off of his speech on the subject I would say this is "okay." He seems to know what he is doing. It also gives these people the right the bear arms.

Yea, those bastard founding fathers, giving us bastardized rights, which they confirmed the meaning in the Federalist papers. But they are fucking retards, sicne you know better, right?


;1388094']- Any gang banger who is smart enough to get a hold of a gun, or knows somebody who knows how to get a hold of a gun.

guess what? In places where gun ownership is not so restricted, and many people have guns...we don't have gang bangers. Thanks for proving one point right there how gun ownership can be a good thing.


;1388094']- Any psycho who is just as versed as Matriel, but would use his knowledge to climb a water tower and kill 30+ college students, assassinate a president, or rob a bank taking out 20+ people in the process. Got kids? How about Columbine? Goth emo kids definitely have the right to bear arms, and kill your kid at school.

Firstly, those kids stole guns from a locked cabinet. Secondly, the shootings happened in a GUN FREE ZONE. OMG....good thing guns were banned there, or it might have been bad,.....oh wait. Way to try to make people feel guilty cause some idiot kids cracked. They could have made bombs out of dish soap too, want to ban that next? They could have made nerve gas out of a common household cleaner and a soda drink, let's ban those too?


;1388094']- Have a depressed friend? Guess what! His worries are over, he has the right to bear arms! He can stick that 12 gauge in his mouth and pull the trigger, problem solved... good ol' second.

I agree. Let's ban rope and razor blades next, so they don't hang themselves or cut their wrists. Fuck you're stupid.


;1388094']The flaw? Sure, Civilians potentially could have more training then even our military in the use of fire arms, specifically when it comes to shooting competitions or game hunting. Each could also potentially be the same psycho who is going to show up at your local grocery store and take our 10 blue light shoppers.

It's real simple, remove guns from all civilian hands and the potential for these crimes happening all but disappears. I have a hard time believing that your neighborhood psycho is going to show up at the local grocery store with a tazer and take more then.. well more then himself.

here is your biggest brain fart. How do you propose we get rid all of firearms? Make a huge federal law force, let them do house to house searches, use 24/7 survillence? So, you want us to create basically another KGB, give them the power to do as they wish under the pretense of finding all firearms? No thanks Adolf. Try thinking past tomorrow, k?


;1388094']Your logic is this. I support these things (mass shootings) because it also allows me to have a weapon in my house/car for defense. Are you telling me there is some way of filtering out pyscho's from getting a gun, or a gang banger? As long as you have easy access to them, so do they. Is your life more important then anybody else's? Why I'm sure you believe it is I would like you to sit down with a parent who has lost a child due to a shooting and explain to them that your important then little Jimmy, so you are okay with their kid being dead.

Wow. Drugs are illegal as shit. Good thing we banned them too, now no one has them, right?

Again, fucking A you are stupid.



;1388094']I like how you accuse me of picking out the points I want, but then do the exact same thing to my post. The fact that you are "picking" on California only further proves you are some sort of outland "rebel." Califorina, with its beaches, near perfect weather and high society mixed with up North good "ol fashion" living is bad? If you would like to accuse me of not reading, then turn that finger right around hank.

I picked on the state that brainwashes people like you into thinking it's ok to have gang bangers and drugs, but not guns. LMFAO...hank....



;1388094']Rick is retired from the Marine core, and the point was that as a civilian instructor he was able to provide in certain circumstances better training then the military. So, please take a pill. By the way Rick is in Iraq right now as Civilian contractor earning a great living and doing his patriotic duty while your sitting on your ass playing forumfall, so please don't try insult somebodies honor when you clearly have none.

Tell Rick I would be happy to compare my 201 file with his. Because one of you two is flat out full of shit.



;1388094']Just stomping your feet and shaking your fists isn't going to change my mind, and you totally ignored the facts as to why people had the "right to bear arm" that I pointed out. Are we under attack by a foreign nation? Are we under threat of savage Indian tribes raiding our home stead?

I'm not the one ignoring facts here sparky. And you totally ignore why the people of the US has a right to bear arms.


I'm not even going to acknowledge the rest of this hiorse shit spewing out of your mouth. You sir, are a foolish person. And you have the right to shit away your rights all you want. But don't be fucking with mine.

Xinnro
06-07-2008, 18:35
Long ass post

You put a lot of effort into that...

Thrill_KIll
06-07-2008, 18:37
You put a lot of effort into that...


lmao

Not really, hence all the typos. I would go back and edit them....but fuck that. I stand by my mistakes....=P

wowsa0
06-07-2008, 18:40
;1384184']While you can never be 100% sure that you are 100% safe, usually people who think they need guns are typically people who draw the kind of attention that requires a gun for their safety.

Get an education or a job so that you can afford to live in a safer area, get a good security system and some dogs to watch the lawn... Sure, you could spend 50 bucks for a hand gun and bullets because you live in Compton California, or you could just not be a loser and move.

I honestly can't remember the last time I read about how somebody saved their family because they had a gun.

Anybody who owns a gun will face the consequences of doing so, it's not a matter of if, but when.

To really drive the point home, how dumb would you feel if you shot a home invader, got sent to prison for murder and while you in their another home intruder kills your family. Good thing you had a gun.

The fact is, if somebody is sneaky enough no weapon on the face of the planet is going to save you.

Do you want some advice? Don't argue about the right to bear arms on this forum, it is like going to the southern states of America and telling them they evolved from monkeys, even if you do get out of it alive you will have only strengthened their resolve.

Matriel
06-07-2008, 20:22
;1388094']I found the biggest flaw in your argument, the flaw that ultimately proves guns need to be out of the hands of civilians.

First let me start by agreeing with you, based on the experience shared with me by a good friend, a TFTT instructor. Just a quick back ground, Rick is Marine Recon, served in more countries then I can name and is basically just one of those dudes who talks, and you listen. So somebody coming here who has just finished "basic" but never has seen combat... keep reading.

About 5 years ago he was hired to flash train about 30 army grunts who just finished basic. They were going to be shipped to Iraq about 2 weeks after the training, so you could imagine these guys were paying attention. After about a day, he quickly figured out that these dudes knew nothing about marksmanship, as only 1 out of 30 could even zero in their scope. After the two weeks, each soldier gave Rick a teary hug because he had basically saved their lives, he taught them to shoot as it applies to combat.

This story is 100% bullshit. It has many continuity problems that just don't add. To add to that you called it the Marine core, which just proves that you're a fucking moron. But hey, I appreciate that you made up a bunch of bullshit to try and form an argument. That's some healthy respect I command. As someone who was actually in the Marine Corps, you shouldn't have thought you could pass that bullshit by me. Retard.


Now, your flaw. To me, you're the typical NRA gun supporter, who writes very well thought out, very well preserved and easy to understand statements about our rights under the 2nd amendment... something that could easily sway support in the NRA's direction simply because, well it sounds good right?

It doesn't sound good, it's factually correct. Sorry that you have some irrational fear of tools that prohibits you from staying with reality, but that's your mental block, not mine.


You can quote the 2nd amendment all you want, as stated, the 2nd amendment was a law formed supporting organized milita. Why? The times required it. People don't seem to realize that in those days, you probably liveed in an area where the closest law enforcement lived 50 miles away and has to ride a horse to get to you. There are also no phones, so you would have send somebody 50 miles to even fetch them and they would have to be there for them to become available. So it's not like you could lock your door call the police, you basically has no choice but to defend yourself against many threats that simply don't exist today. Are we under attack by a foreign nation? Are we under threat of savage Indian tribes raiding our frontier regions? These are the reasons people has the right to bear arms.... please read on.

If the second amendment was just about the militia, it would be half as long as it is. Nice try though.

If you had a brain, you'd realize that most of America is still rather rural with no immediate law enforcement presence. But instead you're trying to view a culturally diverse nation through blinders of California. That's never going to work. Even in areas with a close law enforcement presence, police officers respond too slow to save your lives.

And if you had read anything that the Founders had written, you'd realize that the 2nd was every bit as much about protecting individuals from their own government than just the militia.


The 2nd amendment in it's current bastardization, allows people like Matriel to carry a fire arm, and based off of his speech on the subject I would say this is "okay." He seems to know what he is doing. It also gives these people the right the bear arms.

Lol redundancy ftw.


- Any gang banger who is smart enough to get a hold of a gun, or knows somebody who knows how to get a hold of a gun.

This is true in any country, not just America.


- Any psycho who is just as versed as Matriel, but would use his knowledge to climb a water tower and kill 30+ college students, assassinate a president, or rob a bank taking out 20+ people in the process. Got kids? How about Columbine? Goth emo kids definitely have the right to bear arms, and kill your kid at school.

Lol, nice emotional rant there chief. Funny part is in the one water tower incident, students at the college went to their dorm rooms, retreived hunting weapons and returned fire at the guy in the tower.

And all of the school shootings have happened in gun free zones. Two school shootings however, have been stopped by civilians with firearms.


- Have a depressed friend? Guess what! His worries are over, he has the right to bear arms! He can stick that 12 gauge in his mouth and pull the trigger, problem solved... good ol' second.

Right because the ability to kill yourself is only available with firearms. You can't swallow a bottle of pills or crash your car or do anything to do it.

Seriously, please find a fucking rational argument that's not an appeal to emotions. Russia has no 2nd Amendment and has a higher suicide rate than America. You're stupid.


The flaw? Sure, Civilians potentially could have more training then even our military in the use of fire arms, specifically when it comes to shooting competitions or game hunting. Each could also potentially be the same psycho who is going to show up at your local grocery store and take our 10 blue light shoppers.

Yet, those potential psychos aren't turning up with rivers of blood at every corner grocery store. For some reason, legal firearms are only used in a very small percentanges of gun crimes. You've formed an entire emotional rant based upon what-if scenarios that have no basis in reality.


It's real simple, remove guns from all civilian hands and the potential for these crimes happening all but disappears. I have a hard time believing that your neighborhood psycho is going to show up at the local grocery store with a tazer and take more then.. well more then himself.

Someone needs to read up on gun crimes in countries that don't allow guns. Cause they still have them moron.


Your logic is this. I support these things (mass shootings) because it also allows me to have a weapon in my house/car for defense. Are you telling me there is some way of filtering out pyscho's from getting a gun, or a gang banger? As long as you have easy access to them, so do they. Is your life more important then anybody else's? Why I'm sure you believe it is I would like you to sit down with a parent who has lost a child due to a shooting and explain to them that your important then little Jimmy, so you are okay with their kid being dead.

What the fuck? Are you retarded? I support mass shootings because it allows me to do what I want? No, imbecile, I support people doing what they want as long as they don't hurt others. The vast majority of gun owners do just that.

And currently there is a system that turns down criminals from purchasing firearms legally. It's called the NICS database. You don't even have a single clue what the fuck you are talking about.

You said if your self:

Guns are simply to available, to easy to get and the only solutions is for them not to be made available to civilians, period. Even with perfect gun laws, a law abiding eligible gun owner will buy a gun and then go on vacation. While on vacation his house will be robbed, his gun stolen and the paradox continues.[/QUOTE]

Zomg, I can create magical scenarios in my head too. Soon as I have to give up my guns, I'll have to sit in my house and do nothing when 3 people invade it because I don't have the tools to stop them.

Stop trying to restrict individual liberty because you suffer from hoplophobia and a strong detachment from reality. At the very least bother to look up numbers instead of bothering me with some kind of stupid emotional rant that's not even factually accurate.

fRdz
06-07-2008, 20:37
Zomg, I can create magical scenarios in my head too. Soon as I have to give up my guns, I'll have to sit in my house and do nothing when 3 people invade it because I don't have the tools to stop them.

He can always use his vivid imagination and be sure to stock up on "in-case-of-burglary" Umbrellas and defend himself with those. I've seen it work in the movies

Matriel
06-07-2008, 20:39
He can always use his vivid imagination and be sure to stock up on "in-case-of-burglary" Umbrellas and defend himself with those. I've seen it work in the movies

I'll put up gun-free zone signs. Those will surely keep the evil criminals at bay. No shootings or attacks ever happen in gun-free zones.

fRdz
06-07-2008, 20:43
I'll put up gun-free zone signs. Those will surely keep the evil criminals at bay. No shootings or attacks ever happen in gun-free zones.

I better get my throwing shurikens out from the closet then - just in case.

III [C*D]
06-07-2008, 21:14
Brothers! The south will rise again ye-hah!

I guess it is truly pointless to tell red necks to stop acting like red necks.

The more and more you try to prove that you are experts with fire arms and firearm safety the more and more you prove my point. Remove firearms, and the problem is solved.

You can attack "me" all you want, it doesn't change the fact that the problem lies in the ability for idiots (like yourselves) to get there hands on weapons. Thrill Kill clearly represents somebody who shouldn't own a fire arm, talk about a temper? He can't even post with cursing and insulting every other sentence.

It's really not a question of if, but when you will have your precious guns taken away.. what will you do? How will your egos cope? How will function without some good ol' lead on your belt?

It's amazing, the simple ownership of a gun deletes are ability to function as a normal human being. Give a man power, and suddenly he thinks he is powerful.

The paradox is simple. Since not one gun owner can 100% guarantee he will not be the next D.C. Sniper, no civilian should own a gun. Period.

fRdz
06-07-2008, 21:17
;1388589']Brothers! The south will rise again ye-hah!

I guess it is truly pointless to tell red necks to stop acting like red necks.

The more and more you try to prove that you are experts with fire arms and firearm safety the more and more you prove my point. Remove firearms, and the problem is solved.

I have no problem with this statement. I was just seriousley getting tired of this tedious discussion.

III [C*D]
06-07-2008, 21:21
I have no problem with this statement. I was just seriousley getting tired of this tedious discussion.

It is a beautiful day outside, but because I don't own a gun I don't feel fully safe to sit on my porch.. you know, there might be a random intruder on my property and how could I possibly defend myself?

III [C*D]
06-07-2008, 21:29
I'm not even going to acknowledge the rest of this hiorse shit spewing out of your mouth. You sir, are a foolish person. And you have the right to shit away your rights all you want. But don't be fucking with mine.

Why not, are you going to rip my ear off, or shoot me? It's the internet, I'll absolutely state my opinions. Here you are telling me I'm pissing away my rights, yet I am objectively exercising a right that is more powerful then any weapon which is free speech and free thought. It's unfortunate that you didn't have a proper upbringing that taught you human life is more important then your fat ego.

Seriously, when are you planning on going on a suicidal rampage? I'll be sure to stay clear of that area around that time.

Just a quick question.. do you smoke? You seem like the type of guy that can't go 10 minutes with out lighting up another... you know, cause your under a lot of stress.

Matriel
06-07-2008, 21:54
;1388589']Brothers! The south will rise again ye-hah!

I guess it is truly pointless to tell red necks to stop acting like red necks.

The more and more you try to prove that you are experts with fire arms and firearm safety the more and more you prove my point. Remove firearms, and the problem is solved.

Ah, nice, so now we're rednecks because we give a shit about self-defense. Well, I guess better a redneck than a beta male from California that gets no rights.


You can attack "me" all you want, it doesn't change the fact that the problem lies in the ability for idiots (like yourselves) to get there hands on weapons. Thrill Kill clearly represents somebody who shouldn't own a fire arm, talk about a temper? He can't even post with cursing and insulting every other sentence.

Right, because without background checks things would be so much worse. Like in the 50's when anyone could order guns from mail order catalogs and we had lower violent crime than we do now.

Prohibitions don't work. Never have and never will.


It's really not a question of if, but when you will have your precious guns taken away.. what will you do? How will your egos cope? How will function without some good ol' lead on your belt?

Yeah fucking right. The politicians in this nation have learned quickly that firearms are a don't touch fucking situation. Which is exactly why Hillary changed her damn tune.

It again has nothing to do with ego and everything to do with choosing the best tool for the job. Which again you would realize if you didn't throw all of your emotions at this subject like some kind of woman.


It's amazing, the simple ownership of a gun deletes are ability to function as a normal human being. Give a man power, and suddenly he thinks he is powerful.

The paradox is simple. Since not one gun owner can 100% guarantee he will not be the next D.C. Sniper, no civilian should own a gun. Period.

AKA, since you couldn't trust yourself with a firearm, everyone else shouldn't have them either. Right you emo bitch?

http://www.vcdl.org/new/raging.htm This psychiatrist has some nice things to say about you and people like you.

Arkh
06-07-2008, 22:33
;1388589']It's amazing, the simple ownership of a gun deletes are ability to function as a normal human being. Give a man power, and suddenly he thinks he is powerful.
There two laws which applies to animals :
- law of the stronger
- law of the many.

The only which can separate us from them is guns : with a gun in hand, we get closer to human equality. A woman can beat a guy. A crippled can defend himself. You, alone can stand a chance against five or more people.

Lindorn
06-07-2008, 23:00
Granted you're from California, but time for you to get with reality.


Be nice Matriel, we aren't all retarded! Minus the coastal inner city fart sniffers, a lot of us here still remember where we came from.

Lindorn
06-07-2008, 23:11
AKA, since you couldn't trust yourself with a firearm, everyone else shouldn't have them either. Right you emo bitch?

You know it's funny because most of these asshats I guarantee haven't been exposed to firearms at all their entire lives.

I once was having this very same debate with a super hardcore hippy chick I knew who was adamantly pro gun control. Before we got into it heavily I asked her if she had ever held, operated, or even been in close proximity to someone who was operating a firearm. She said no and that there was really no point or need.

So I asked her "If I went into my trunk right now and pulled out a rifle, unloaded it quickly and handed it to you, would you be AFRAID?"

She responded yes, she would be intimidated and afraid of having a firearm in her hands.

I then told her, "then you are in no place to have this discussion, because anything you say is not based in logic or common sense, but fear of the weapon itself".

I truly believe this. Most of the people I've met in my life that were staunchly for gun control have never even seen anyone operate a firearm in person. This shit drives me up a fucking wall. I'm not saying you have to pass a hunter safety course before you are allowed to have an opinion on guns, but how the fuck can you tell ME it's not right for ME to own a gun if you can't even be in the same room as one without pissing your pants?

I think all of you sniveling anti gun libs need to spend a few days on the range before you open your mouth anymore. It is very possible your opinions won't change one iota, however I'd feel more comfortable having this discussion with someone who could at least claim to have their head out of their ass.

Death's Chill
06-07-2008, 23:13
;1388589']Brothers! The south will rise again ye-hah!

I guess it is truly pointless to tell red necks to stop acting like red necks.

The more and more you try to prove that you are experts with fire arms and firearm safety the more and more you prove my point. Remove firearms, and the problem is solved.

You can attack "me" all you want, it doesn't change the fact that the problem lies in the ability for idiots (like yourselves) to get there hands on weapons. Thrill Kill clearly represents somebody who shouldn't own a fire arm, talk about a temper? He can't even post with cursing and insulting every other sentence.

It's really not a question of if, but when you will have your precious guns taken away.. what will you do? How will your egos cope? How will function without some good ol' lead on your belt?

It's amazing, the simple ownership of a gun deletes are ability to function as a normal human being. Give a man power, and suddenly he thinks he is powerful.

The paradox is simple. Since not one gun owner can 100% guarantee he will not be the next D.C. Sniper, no civilian should own a gun. Period.

The funny thing here, is you attribute gun control as effective. It couldn't be further from the truth. In fact, it made it easier, though just a tad bit more expensive, for people to get their hands on them.

Back off dude, you're way out of your league here.

III [C*D]
06-08-2008, 00:15
The funny thing here, is you attribute gun control as effective. It couldn't be further from the truth. In fact, it made it easier, though just a tad bit more expensive, for people to get their hands on them.

Back off dude, you're way out of your league here.

I'm not talking about gun control, I'm talking about eliminating guns from civilians all together. Back off? Why, because I'm hitting hot buttons and some gun pyscho's are gonna get me?

This becomes perfectly clear when your only response is... "well you probably don't even know what a gun is zomg!?"

Wait I get it, if I go shooting I will "feel the power" and therefore I will suddenly realize that deadly potential and somehow that will erase all logic?

I've been shooting, definitely understood and respect the destructive power. I still don't think civilians should have them.

I'm sorry what will you make up now?

The emo-bitch statement though... that was hilarious.

Wowzer?

Arclyte
06-08-2008, 00:19
I'm not talking about gun control, I'm talking about eliminating guns from civilians all together.

I stopped reading here

III [C*D]
06-08-2008, 00:24
You know it's funny because most of these asshats I guarantee haven't been exposed to firearms at all their entire lives.

I once was having this very same debate with a super hardcore hippy chick I knew who was adamantly pro gun control. Before we got into it heavily I asked her if she had ever held, operated, or even been in close proximity to someone who was operating a firearm. She said no and that there was really no point or need.

So I asked her "If I went into my trunk right now and pulled out a rifle, unloaded it quickly and handed it to you, would you be AFRAID?"

She responded yes, she would be intimidated and afraid of having a firearm in her hands.

I then told her, "then you are in no place to have this discussion, because anything you say is not based in logic or common sense, but fear of the weapon itself".

I truly believe this. Most of the people I've met in my life that were staunchly for gun control have never even seen anyone operate a firearm in person. This shit drives me up a fucking wall. I'm not saying you have to pass a hunter safety course before you are allowed to have an opinion on guns, but how the fuck can you tell ME it's not right for ME to own a gun if you can't even be in the same room as one without pissing your pants?

I think all of you sniveling anti gun libs need to spend a few days on the range before you open your mouth anymore. It is very possible your opinions won't change one iota, however I'd feel more comfortable having this discussion with someone who could at least claim to have their head out of their ass.

You red necks crack me up, we want the world to be a safer place by removing the tools that help make it dangerous... yet we have our heads up our asses?

So you honestly feel that if every single American walked around fully trained and armed, that we would all be safer? I'm sorry, if you truly believe this you are insane.

It is total blind ignorance to think that simply shooting a gun, or being well trained to use a gun will stop somebody from using it when their emotions get the best of them. Humans are imperfect creatures, that is an absolute. Guns are a variable that can be removed to lesson the effect of a human whose emotions go out of control.

If you are suggesting that I go to a range (and I have already been to one) then I suggest you take a psychology class and learn that every person on earth is capable of "losing control." How would it be "better" if every person also had the destructive power of a gun at their disposal?

I think you people are mentally ill.

III [C*D]
06-08-2008, 00:27
You know it's funny because most of these asshats I guarantee haven't been exposed to firearms at all their entire lives.

I once was having this very same debate with a super hardcore hippy chick I knew who was adamantly pro gun control. Before we got into it heavily I asked her if she had ever held, operated, or even been in close proximity to someone who was operating a firearm. She said no and that there was really no point or need.

So I asked her "If I went into my trunk right now and pulled out a rifle, unloaded it quickly and handed it to you, would you be AFRAID?"

She responded yes, she would be intimidated and afraid of having a firearm in her hands.

I then told her, "then you are in no place to have this discussion, because anything you say is not based in logic or common sense, but fear of the weapon itself".

I truly believe this. Most of the people I've met in my life that were staunchly for gun control have never even seen anyone operate a firearm in person. This shit drives me up a fucking wall. I'm not saying you have to pass a hunter safety course before you are allowed to have an opinion on guns, but how the fuck can you tell ME it's not right for ME to own a gun if you can't even be in the same room as one without pissing your pants?

I think all of you sniveling anti gun libs need to spend a few days on the range before you open your mouth anymore. It is very possible your opinions won't change one iota, however I'd feel more comfortable having this discussion with someone who could at least claim to have their head out of their ass.


There two laws which applies to animals :
- law of the stronger
- law of the many.

The only which can separate us from them is guns : with a gun in hand, we get closer to human equality. A woman can beat a guy. A crippled can defend himself. You, alone can stand a chance against five or more people.

Wait, are you serious? The only thing that separates us from the animals is cognitive reasoning, which you are clearly not using.

Honestly let's keep this thread going, I know that I'm getting to you guys and I am honestly loving every new post that tries to explain why "guns are good."

Bring it on pussies!

Matriel
06-08-2008, 04:01
I stopped reading here

It's amazing how willfully obtuse someone can be.


;1388858']You red necks crack me up, we want the world to be a safer place by removing the tools that help make it dangerous... yet we have our heads up our asses?

So you honestly feel that if every single American walked around fully trained and armed, that we would all be safer? I'm sorry, if you truly believe this you are insane.

It is total blind ignorance to think that simply shooting a gun, or being well trained to use a gun will stop somebody from using it when their emotions get the best of them. Humans are imperfect creatures, that is an absolute. Guns are a variable that can be removed to lesson the effect of a human whose emotions go out of control.

If you are suggesting that I go to a range (and I have already been to one) then I suggest you take a psychology class and learn that every person on earth is capable of "losing control." How would it be "better" if every person also had the destructive power of a gun at their disposal?

I think you people are mentally ill.

http://www.vcdl.org/new/raging.htm

Try reading it this time you retard.

You already lied about your magical Force Recon buddy Mike. It's painfully fucking obvious you've never shot a gun.

III [C*D]
06-08-2008, 05:59
It's amazing how willfully obtuse someone can be.



http://www.vcdl.org/new/raging.htm

Try reading it this time you retard.

You already lied about your magical Force Recon buddy Mike. It's painfully fucking obvious you've never shot a gun.

I can't argue about guns unless I've shot one? I can't talk about nukes until I've set one off? Wow, your logic is mind boggling.

Now your just acting like a child, I didn't mean to melt your face so badly. Being the champion of the gun psychos, you should be ashamed.

Matriel
06-08-2008, 06:58
;1389539']I can't argue about guns unless I've shot one? I can't talk about nukes until I've set one off? Wow, your logic is mind boggling.

I don't talk about the specifics of nukes because I don't know shit about them. I do know about the specifics of firearms and that's why I talk about them. Evidently you don't need to have any knowledge of a subject to talk about it. You continue to claim that guns are too dangerous to be allowed to private citizens, yet studies have been linked in this thread that show that more crimes are stopped with guns than committed with them in this country. By removing them (if that were even possible) you'd make more people victims.

While we're discussing shit you have no idea of, what do you think of being intelligent?


Now your just acting like a child, I didn't mean to melt your face so badly. Being the champion of the gun psychos, you should be ashamed.

You are mentally incapable of melting faces on any subject, let alone this one. You have yet to address a single point and continue responding with the same tired emotional argument that has no basis in reality. Anyone that can comprehend English realizes you're fucking retarded. That article by the psychiatrist I've linked describes you to a T.

Lindorn
06-08-2008, 11:13
I like how he constantly pulls the....

Any logical person would.....

Any sane person must....

Unless you are a mental patient you.....

As the beginning to all of his sentences. These little attachments seem to work well when you have no real evidence to back yourself up whatsoever.

I can't even respond to you IIII or whatever the hell your name is, because your arguments are riddled in logical fallacies. On top of that you trumpet all of this crap about cognitive reasoning when yours seems to have stopped developing at the Neanderthal level.

Arkh
06-08-2008, 12:51
;1388867']Wait, are you serious? The only thing that separates us from the animals is cognitive reasoning, which you are clearly not using.
You should make some research about psychopath : like 2 or 3% of the population is made of people who don't have any conscience. This give us people who rape and torture other people for some hours.
Cognitive reasoning is not enough. Empathy, conscience is what our race would need, but face reality : some people are human predators. There were before guns, there are nowadays and there will be for a long time. Guns can help you defend yourself or your relatives against these predators.

What do you fear exactly about gun owning ?

Thrill_KIll
06-08-2008, 14:31
;1388589']Brothers! The south will rise again ye-hah!

I guess it is truly pointless to tell red necks to stop acting like red necks.

LMAO

You are absolutely full of stereotypes. That is typical of someone who holds your veiws when presented with facts they cannot refute, you simply resort to "redneck".




;1388589']The more and more you try to prove that you are experts with fire arms and firearm safety the more and more you prove my point. Remove firearms, and the problem is solved.

See, this is where you are refusing to accept a few things.

Firstly, you cannot magically remove firearms. Before you go off on another tangent, remember we've tried this with drugs, and before that alcohol. All you do is create more government agencies to try to enforce the new laws, create more criminal elements which means even more laws and government agencies, which leads to complete chaos.

Secondly, and this is what you just refuse to even acknowledge, our forefathers gave us the right to bear arms as a right not to be taken away because that was exactly what the British did when the America's started to revolt. They sent troops over to confiscate all weapons. Our forefathers knew that if this happened, the people of our country would be at the complete mercy of the British. Unless you want to seriously try to argue the British simply wanted to make us safer, it is pretty easy to see why a government would want to disarm the populace that was discontent.

And also, you are the one refusing to see that there has been study after study on exactly what you are saying, and they all come to the same conclusion, the only people who obey guns laws are the people who the laws aren't designed to impact. Gun laws are supposed to impact criminals, and quell gun violence, when in fact, they do not. Nowhere in the world can you find an example where banning guns lead to less violence, because in fact it rises.



;1388589']You can attack "me" all you want, it doesn't change the fact that the problem lies in the ability for idiots (like yourselves) to get there hands on weapons. Thrill Kill clearly represents somebody who shouldn't own a fire arm, talk about a temper? He can't even post with cursing and insulting every other sentence.

ROFL

I got pissy because nothing boils my blood quicker than some arm chair Rambo like you, making up war stories trying to sound all knowledgable and tug at heart strings. In your little lie, you talk about your imaginary friend being the vet with all this experience means when he talks, you listen. Well, why don't you apply that logic of your's to this arguement? Matriel and I are both vets. So, if we follow the point you were trying to make with your made up "listen to me" story, you should be sitting there listening to us. However, apparently you are infinitely more knowledgable. In other words, we've established that you lie, that you are a hypocrite, and that you could care less about facts because it does not suit your personal belief.




;1388589']It's really not a question of if, but when you will have your precious guns taken away.. what will you do? How will your egos cope? How will function without some good ol' lead on your belt?

Being that I know how this country is supposed to work, and I have actually read the bill of rights instead of having some idiot spoon feed only certain bits to me, I won't have my firearms taken from me. In another post, you talk about the 1st ammendment being the most important. To a degree, I agree. However, the Bill of Rights is a list of promises, and the 2nd ammendment is the way we have as a people to make sure they are kept.


;1388589']It's amazing, the simple ownership of a gun deletes are ability to function as a normal human being. Give a man power, and suddenly he thinks he is powerful.

Do what? See, arguments like this are why I tell you that you are stupid. I got one better for you. What causes massive corruption and evil is when there can be no consequences. You think our government is bad now, let them know we as a people are completely disarmed and have no way to resist them. You made the whole "pistols won't do squat against an assault rifle" arguement. Well, let me use it on you. What would you have us use should something like that occur? Rocks? Sticks? Harsh language? Again, your own logic is owning you.


;1388589']The paradox is simple. Since not one gun owner can 100% guarantee he will not be the next D.C. Sniper, no civilian should own a gun. Period.

The paradox is simple. Since not one person can ever guarantee that no one will try to hurt me or my family, that my government will not become tyrannical, or that a zombie apocalypse isn't coming, no one can take my weapons. Period.

Mordhak
06-08-2008, 14:35
LMAO

You are absolutely full of stereotypes. That is typical of someone who holds your veiws when presented with facts they cannot refute, you simply resort to "redneck".





See, this is where you are refusing to accept a few things.

Firstly, you cannot magically remove firearms. Before you go off on another tangent, remember we've tried this with drugs, and before that alcohol. All you do is create more government agencies to try to enforce the new laws, create more criminal elements which means even more laws and government agencies, which leads to complete chaos.

Secondly, and this is what you just refuse to even acknowledge, our forefathers gave us the right to bear arms as a right not to be taken away because that was exactly what the British did when the America's started to revolt. They sent troops over to confiscate all weapons. Our forefathers knew that if this happened, the people of our country would be at the complete mercy of the British. Unless you want to seriously try to argue the British simply wanted to make us safer, it is pretty easy to see why a government would want to disarm the populace that was discontent.

And also, you are the one refusing to see that there has been study after study on exactly what you are saying, and they all come to the same conclusion, the only people who obey guns laws are the people who the laws aren't designed to impact. Gun laws are supposed to impact criminals, and quell gun violence, when in fact, they do not. Nowhere in the world can you find an example where banning guns lead to less violence, because in fact it rises.




ROFL

I got pissy because nothing boils my blood quicker than some arm chair Rambo like you, making up war stories trying to sound all knowledgable and tug at heart strings. In your little lie, you talk about your imaginary friend being the vet with all this experience means when he talks, you listen. Well, why don't you apply that logic of your's to this arguement? Matriel and I are both vets. So, if we follow the point you were trying to make with your made up "listen to me" story, you should be sitting there listening to us. However, apparently you are infinitely more knowledgable. In other words, we've established that you lie, that you are a hypocrite, and that you could care less about facts because it does not suit your personal belief.





Being that I know how this country is supposed to work, and I have actually read the bill of rights instead of having some idiot spoon feed only certain bits to me, I won't have my firearms taken from me. In another post, you talk about the 1st ammendment being the most important. To a degree, I agree. However, the Bill of Rights is a list of promises, and the 2nd ammendment is the way we have as a people to make sure they are kept.



Do what? See, arguments like this are why I tell you that you are stupid. I got one better for you. What causes massive corruption and evil is when there can be no consequences. You think our government is bad now, let them know we as a people are completely disarmed and have no way to resist them. You made the whole "pistols won't do squat against an assault rifle" arguement. Well, let me use it on you. What would you have us use should something like that occur? Rocks? Sticks? Harsh language? Again, your own logic is owning you.



The paradox is simple. Since not one person can ever guarantee that no one will try to hurt me or my family, that my government will not become tyrannical, or that a zombie apocalypse isn't coming, no one can take my weapons. Period.

tl;dr

Fro
06-08-2008, 14:47
guns fap fap


guns /drools

You two realy are obssessed with guns.

Thrill_KIll
06-08-2008, 15:10
You two realy are obssessed with guns.


It's not that, Fro. I'm obssessed with my rights. I don't live in some cabin off in the woods, hording supplies waiting for WWIII. But I can't understand how someone can try to use people's rights as an excuse to take them away. Someone saying that the Bill of Rights is wrong because it doesn't protect stupid people from being stupid, or crazy people from being crazy irks me. It's the same thing as saying since a black guy was caught dealing crack, we should lock up all black people. Or saying since this one white guy is a Nazi skin head, we should lock up all white people. In other words, to say that because someone used a gun in a crime means we should ban all guns doesn't make sense, nor would it work. America has learned many a painful lesson (and still are with the war on drugs) that you can ban things all you want, but it won't make them go away.

I guess what I'm saying is this. For someone to speak about the rights of the people, and in the same breath speak of giving rights away just baffles me. the US is not perfect, as we are a very young nation when compared to the rest of the world. We are a work in progress, and our founding fathers knew this. However, that is why they gave us a certain foundation of rights to ensure while we found our way, that we would not fall victim to certain problems involving government as so many other nations have.

Lindorn
06-08-2008, 22:49
tl;dr

Frankly no one gives a shit that you think it's too long or that you didn't read it.

Thrill_KIll
06-09-2008, 00:36
;1388867']Honestly let's keep this thread going, I know that I'm getting to you guys and I am honestly loving every new post that tries to explain why "guns are good."

Bring it on pussies!


I guess you are with "Rick" flash training some Navy SEALS on combat tactics before they ship to Cancun? Or I guess you got tired of looking foolish......


Sorry, I speak for everyone when I say we didn't mean to "bring it on" so hardcore.

I'd post more, but I have to go train some Army cooks on combat demolitions for a secret Quebec deployment.

Bunkah
06-09-2008, 00:41
4 years of Kung Fu classes for all women over 15 years old. This will solve all problems.

Thrill_KIll
06-09-2008, 00:47
4 years of Kung Fu classes for all women over 15 years old. This will solve all problems.


Statements like this is why I am training my elite group of Army cooks in demo tactics, and sending them to Quebec. :sly:

Lindorn
06-09-2008, 01:00
Im confused, why Quebec?

Thrill_KIll
06-09-2008, 01:04
Im confused, why Quebec?


lmao

Why not?

I was moreso making fun of III#1g.....whatever the fuck his name is, blatant lie.


Edit:

Also, it just worked out that Bunkah is from Quebec.

losinglife
06-10-2008, 08:03
holy shit... this thread is full of lulz :lmao::lmao:

I love how everytime a gun thread pops up there is always some new asshole that tries to argue on the side of control. Its never the same person twice.