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Tharkon Fargor
06-03-2008, 11:24
http://www.cracked.com/article_16330_p2.html


Ok there's like 2 Articles there about EA + 100 others in this forum and everywhere ellse including the spyware in 2142 and the lousy support etc.


But what really scared the shit out of me is the anti cheating tool on WoW...
HOW THE FUCK O_o doesn't anyone read the EULA anymore? How can you play that game. - I mean now it's both sucky and a threat to your privacy.

Preston
06-03-2008, 11:52
Great article, thanks for sharing!

:)

Tharkon Fargor
06-03-2008, 12:11
I just remembered I had read that stuff about WoW somewhere ellse a couple of months ago to...


Anyway, the first video in this article (just watched it myself) is hilarious.
Everyone should seriously boycott EA. :cool:

And screw gamespot to. I never liked that site anyway.

MandorRook
06-03-2008, 12:16
And just out of curiosity, do you think the anti-cheating measures the DF team is taking to secure Darkfall from cheats will be any less invasive than WoW's warden program?

Corey Grim
06-03-2008, 12:16
Suprised?

Personally im more suprised by the fact that people _still_ are suprised by these things :(

Tharkon Fargor
06-03-2008, 12:19
And just out of curiosity, do you think the anti-cheating measures the DF team is taking to secure Darkfall from cheats will be any less invasive than WoW's warden program?

If Darkfall is as invasive as WoW I won't buy it.
Quite simple.



still_ are suprised

Well why wouldn't we be?
It's offensive that they regard the consumer as a dumb animal - well it's offensive towards me at least. As these articles keep coming and stash up, I add company after company or at least game after game to a blacklist of mine. Couldn't be simpler than that, and everyone should do the same.

Eskareon
06-03-2008, 12:28
Everyone always flips out over cheat detection software like Blizzard's, but no one has any solid evidence of it doing anything malicious or unethical. Some people have monitored it and found it do be doing nothing suspicious. I always hear the same stupid conspiracy theory:

"Well, the EULA doesn't say they DON'T scan your personal information, so you MUST assume that they DO!"

Yes, well, my friend has never told me that he DOESN'T tie up small children in his basement and beat them with hockey sticks, so I guess I MUST assume that he DOES!

Blizzard's software scans for a particular type of third party software. It doesn't go snouting through your Excel files.

Corey Grim
06-03-2008, 12:28
Well why wouldn't we be?
It's offensive that they regard the consumer as a dumb animal - well it's offensive towards me at least. As these articles keep coming and stash up, I add company after company or at least game after game to a blacklist of mine. Couldn't be simpler than that, and everyone should do the same.

Becouse the agressive, shady and non-acceptable behauvior of for example EA Games started allready in 97-98 (they bought maxis and westwood for example).
How the internet is evolved has allowed game companies to pull off some extra tricks from their sleeves, but the actual "non-acceptable" behauviour started in mid 90´s allready.

Helgeran
06-03-2008, 12:29
Google puts all your searches and emails on record.

Tharkon Fargor
06-03-2008, 12:34
Google puts all your searches and emails on record.

Already stopped using G-mail in general. Perhaps once a month tops.
Going to ask for my account to be removed soon.

And yes, google and other searchengines do that. If I'm searching for something very private or underground I use MSN or Astalavista.

According to some extensive research I've done, those two are the best.
Still googling for like some school thing or newsarticle on Google is the best way to go as I don't have much of a choice.




Becouse the agressive, shady and non-acceptable behauvior of for example EA Games started allready in 97-98 (they bought maxis and westwood for example).
How the internet is evolved has allowed game companies to pull off some extra tricks from their sleeves, but the actual "non-acceptable" behauviour started in mid 90´s allready.

I was just a kid back then and buying companies in the way EA has done is despicable but indeed nothing I'd boycott a company for.
When the company itself bothers me as a consumer and tries to trick me: then I stop buying their games completely.

Though yes, I was infuriated when they did what they did to Westwood.
Especially when they moved EA pacific and the old Westwood studio.

Tharkon Fargor
06-03-2008, 12:35
Everyone always flips out over cheat detection software like Blizzard's, but no one has any solid evidence of it doing anything malicious or unethical. Some people have monitored it and found it do be doing nothing suspicious. I always hear the same stupid conspiracy theory:

"Well, the EULA doesn't say they DON'T scan your personal information, so you MUST assume that they DO!"

Yes, well, my friend has never told me that he DOESN'T tie up small children in his basement and beat them with hockey sticks, so I guess I MUST assume that he DOES!

Blizzard's software scans for a particular type of third party software. It doesn't go snouting through your Excel files.


Who cares if it's doing something or not?
Would you let me scan your computer for software that I have copyright on just because I probably...possibly won't look into your transfers or private documents?

Why don't you let me do that right now.
It's all about principal and having some integrity damnit.
If they were looking through my files in a malicious way I'd actually buy the game right now and then sue them for millions.

Spart
06-03-2008, 13:48
Who cares if it's doing something or not?
Would you let me scan your computer for software that I have copyright on just because I probably...possibly won't look into your transfers or private documents?

Why don't you let me do that right now.
It's all about principal and having some integrity damnit.
If they were looking through my files in a malicious way I'd actually buy the game right now and then sue them for millions.

I'm sorry, you may not realise this, but cracked is very very very biased. Don't get real information from there. It's a joke site.

Anyway, Blizzard isn't going to take that $10,000 you have in your savings, because, get this, that is fucking nothing for them. Maybe if you were some ultra billionaire, they might consider taking it, but other than that, you have nothing to fear. Because they have a whole shitload more to lose than you do. Like, a million times more. So no, nothing is going to be done to your precious documents.

Also, it can't even catch all the botter programs as it is, I'm sure if you simply put a password on your folders that you are so scared they will check on it will be stopped.

Tharkon Fargor
06-03-2008, 14:04
You didn't really get what I wrote now did you?

Brillen
06-03-2008, 14:23
As well as looking for illegal add-ons, the client also looks for key loggers and viruses that threaten a users account. While I don't like the thought of a downloaded program I don't know about is sifting through all my porn, I would breath a sigh of relief that some jackass kid in his basement isn't making money off my stupid decision to play wow while waiting for DF to come out.

Lethn
06-03-2008, 14:27
I couldn't give a fuck about protection or anti-cheating software, but when it invades my computer and places spyware on my computer without my knowledge that's where I draw the line, it's WRONG. Sure, they may not be stealing any personal information from you but that's like saying "Oh I'm sorry, I just snuck into your house but I wasn't going to take anything" dressed up as a ninja and carrying jewelry in your pockets. To the people who think there's nothing wrong with this sort of thing I dare you to ask the companies what they're planning to do with this sort of software in a few years, what really pisses me off is that by putting it in their EULA or Terms of Service they apparently think it's automatically right.

This stuff SHOULD be illegal and I'm amazed that governments haven't done anything about it yet which shows just how influential the games Industry must be getting now.

Crying Hyena
06-03-2008, 14:55
Google puts all your searches and emails on record.

If you use Firefox, you can get the customize google addon which block that feature.

Atnas
06-03-2008, 14:56
But they don't sell upgrades for real life money anymore! Just a quick note.

I also find the CoD "faked commercial" thing fucking silly. Oh no a cutscene and we think it's real!

Tharkon Fargor
06-03-2008, 15:00
If you use Firefox, you can get the customize google addon which block that feature.

lol?

Google is Firefoxes biggest contributor.
But sure, linke me to this "customized google addon".

Darq
06-03-2008, 20:39
Everyone always flips out over cheat detection software like Blizzard's, but no one has any solid evidence of it doing anything malicious or unethical. Some people have monitored it and found it do be doing nothing suspicious. I always hear the same stupid conspiracy theory:

"Well, the EULA doesn't say they DON'T scan your personal information, so you MUST assume that they DO!"

Yes, well, my friend has never told me that he DOESN'T tie up small children in his basement and beat them with hockey sticks, so I guess I MUST assume that he DOES!

Blizzard's software scans for a particular type of third party software. It doesn't go snouting through your Excel files.

and the easter bunny never had sex

Spinewire
06-03-2008, 21:43
Anyone who throught that CoD 2 adverts were ingame and not prerendered needs a fucking slap. Also anyone that saves passwords and back account details on there PC also needs a fucking slap.

The whole blizz warden thing is all a bit tinfoil hat for my liking, the scanning would consist of is this;

Is this file:
a) A 3rd party program
b) something else....

Anyone who thinks blizz is actually stealling information is a complete tool, it allows for the detection of certian software, it does not give the it the right to extract information such as passwords & bank details as last time i checked passwords and bank details are not a fucking program or software. Also the act of doing this would be a tad intencive and how would a program know what is worth looting and whats not unless they just d/l the lot and get someone to sift through it.

That artical was really fucking weak...

Reikson
06-03-2008, 21:57
If Darkfall is as invasive as WoW I won't buy it.
Quite simple.



yes you will

Lord Caim
06-03-2008, 23:28
But what really scared the shit out of me is the anti cheating tool on WoW...
HOW THE FUCK O_o doesn't anyone read the EULA anymore? How can you play that game. - I mean now it's both sucky and a threat to your privacy.
You'd be surprised at how many just skip it and sell away their privacy for a game; and the game sucks to boot.

When I found out the warden program on my comp I setup a firewall specifically for it and got my account banned. Go figure.

Tharkon Fargor
06-04-2008, 15:09
Anyone who throught that CoD 2 adverts were ingame and not prerendered needs a fucking slap. Also anyone that saves passwords and back account details on there PC also needs a fucking slap.

The whole blizz warden thing is all a bit tinfoil hat for my liking, the scanning would consist of is this;

Is this file:
a) A 3rd party program
b) something else....

Anyone who thinks blizz is actually stealling information is a complete tool, it allows for the detection of certian software, it does not give the it the right to extract information such as passwords & bank details as last time i checked passwords and bank details are not a fucking program or software. Also the act of doing this would be a tad intencive and how would a program know what is worth looting and whats not unless they just d/l the lot and get someone to sift through it.

That artical was really fucking weak...


You fucking twat. You seriously can't read.
Nobody here is suggesting Blizzard is stealing stuff.
IF they were, and it would be ease as fuck to check then I would buy the game only for the purpous to sue them and get a million or more in cash.

What we are objecting to is the principle that my computer/home/car is not to be scanned by a company, individual or government if there's no warrent for my arrest.

It is wrong because it threatens as such the personal integrity. It is not important if Blizzard is doing damage or not: It is only important that it could do so if it wished.
What the fuck don't you retards realise about this?
If I give you my word that I won't steal anything and that you even in contrast to Blizzard would be able to monitor me, would you then give me free access to your house or your computer when ever I wanted? :bang:




When I found out the warden program on my comp I setup a firewall specifically for it and got my account banned. Go figure.
Good for you, and i mean that.
It just shows how fucked up it is.
I started playing EQ2 and read through the EULA and then publicly laughed at them on the forum. "Your private messages cannot be considered private as our agents are allowed to monitor the conversations without any notice to you" - basicly.

Still tried the game once just to see how it was, uninstaling it now even though I quite liked it. (Old EQ1 guy here)



yes you will

Wanna bet?
Why wouldn't I?
I play games because they are fun, it's not fun if they are a threat to me.
I recognize that in a western democracy people have to take responsibility for their actions and defend their freedom or they might loose it.
So I am taking that responsibility as much as I can and have time to.

Not playing a game isn't really an issue as that gives me extra time to do something ellse.


http://www.guildwars.com/support/legal/users-agreement.php
http://www.guildwars.com/support/legal/privacy-policy.php#(1)

For example: Perfectly fine, sure you'd probably want to change a lil there a lil here but in general it's a good EULA and a good game. Thus I play it.

EQ2...good game, bad EULA = I don't play it.
WoW...Bad game(EQ but worse) , Horrible EULA = I will keep saying bad words about WoW when ever I hear about it from now on and I won't touch it with a 20 foot long pole and that's if I managed to hold the pole in the first place.



EDIT for spelling errors x2.

Uzik
06-04-2008, 15:43
WoW is stealing our credit card numbers!


...

Because yea, I have credit information stored all over my PC. I mean, all websites that use eCommerce shit store your CC stuff in cookies and cache...


People invading ur privacy sucks, but im not gonna worry much because I think I do a fair job at protecting my information.

Lethn
06-04-2008, 15:44
The problem behind this spyware stuff is not that they ARE stealing personal information but they certainly have the bloody ability to and not only that spyware is supposed to be illegal because it accesses your computer without you knowing so in effect they could hack our computers and you wouldn't even be aware of it.

Tharkon Fargor
06-04-2008, 15:47
The spyware stuff is for EA's 2142 BF though not mentioned in the video. I just added it. EA should as I try to mention everywhere not even be considered by consumers anymore.
In this article I read about the NFL having made a contract with EA so that only they have have the real teams/players. What sort of bullshit is that, it probably goes against the constitution to but few people can afford to sue EA on something that has become so abstract like the constitution in the US.

But yes it's the same point for Blizzards scanning software and I can't grasp that people don't get it. "Oh he's not doing anything wrong so he can walk about in my computer/house as much as he wants and look through everything yay!"

It's time for people to take responsibility and vote with their money.

Beeblebrox
06-04-2008, 15:53
Google puts all your searches and emails on record.

Shit.....they probably can write a book with all the porn searches I did im my short time on this earth. Google is the new Microsoft. Burn them!

Uzik
06-04-2008, 15:54
The problem behind this spyware stuff is not that they ARE stealing personal information but they certainly have the bloody ability to and not only that spyware is supposed to be illegal because it accesses your computer without you knowing so in effect they could hack our computers and you wouldn't even be aware of it.

I'm aware of it.


Get Kerio Firewall or something and just have it alert you on those things. If you aren't playing a game and see the Blizzard anti-cheat trying to lauch, don't let it.

I never saw the Blizzard shit doing anything it wasn't supposed to, so I have no problem with it. Punkbuster is far more of a concern to me than the Blizzard shit. Mainly because it wants to always run on launch.

Tharkon Fargor
06-04-2008, 15:56
Shit.....they probably can write a book with all the porn searches I did im my short time on this earth. Google is the new Microsoft. Burn them!

Yup. Definetly. Actually MSN is the least invasive searchengine out there.
I'll try to dig up my article I made and post it here.


All that bullshit about "not being evil"... hah.
It's the same bullshit when North Korea says it's the "Democratic" Peoples Republic of Korea. (DPRK).

But yeah there's not much you can do about Google except not use it(but it's hard as it controls Youtube, Gmail, Google inc etc) .
On the other hand there's much you can do about EA for example: Don't pay for it and they die or have to change or loose profits.

Dead3ye
06-04-2008, 15:58
http://www.cracked.com/article_16152_p2.html

Check out number 3

Tharkon Fargor
06-04-2008, 15:58
I'm aware of it.


Get Kerio Firewall or something and just have it alert you on those things. If you aren't playing a game and see the Blizzard anti-cheat trying to lauch, don't let it.

I never saw the Blizzard shit doing anything it wasn't supposed to, so I have no problem with it. Punkbuster is far more of a concern to me than the Blizzard shit. Mainly because it wants to always run on launch.

How is Punkbuster a bigger concern?
Punkbuster checks if you have a cheating program running*
So of the 25+ programs running compared to the millions of files you have it is less of a concern.

It's only a concern if you are a cheater :) Then you brough it on yourself.

Eskareon
06-04-2008, 16:19
Would you let me scan your computer...

No, because you're a tinfoil-hat conspiracy-theory paranoid loser on a forum, not a multi-billion dollar industry-leader with leagues of liability.

Tharkon Fargor
06-04-2008, 16:28
lol, why do I even give a shit.
I'll have a apartment in the central city after the summer 19 years old, already published a couple of works, studying and life is great for me.

And I have to take this shit from you for trying to share some information about what's going about. People like you are the dirt on all our shoes. Fuck you sir.

Senti
06-04-2008, 16:35
http://www.cracked.com/article_16152_p2.html

Check out number 3

You asshole, I was going to post that.

Tharkon Fargor
06-04-2008, 16:36
xD I didn't know that this game was in production since 2001 even.
But I do belive we will see DNF and Darkfall at least - probably before 2009 ends.

Eskareon
06-04-2008, 16:50
I'll have a apartment in the central city after the summer

You'll get a congrats when you buy a house.


19 years old, already published a couple of works

I was published while in highschool. And I can tell you this - it doesn't mean anything.


studying and life is great for me.

For now.


And I have to take this shit from you for trying to share some information about what's going about.

You didn't share information on what's going about. You shared information on what you fear is going about.

Alright, enough troll bait for me. Here's your tinfoil hat back, you wise, omniscient adolescent.

sylverCode
06-04-2008, 16:56
Doesn't WoW client scan only your running programs and not your hard drive?

Spinewire
06-04-2008, 17:09
You fucking twat. You seriously can't read.
Nobody here is suggesting Blizzard is stealing stuff.I suggest you settle the fuck down as i was not having a go at you.


It is never stated whether the client considers your passwords, credit card numbers, web history or email addresses to be "unauthorized" so we're forced to assume that is does. Most people seem to think that a computer scanning a document that contains sensitive information is actualy the same as a human looking at your bank details and passwords.... even the bloke that wrote the artical as he said the real life equlivlent would be.

Hiring a maid to clean your house, and catching her snooping around your family photos and financial information in that drawer you told her not to touch.

Infact even you seem to be under this impresson aswell...


If I give you my word that I won't steal anything and that you even in contrast to Blizzard would be able to monitor me, would you then give me free access to your house or your computer when ever I wanted?

This is just retarded...

A program does not comprehend it would not even recognise wtf it was "seeing" it would only notice things that were 3rd party programs. It would not judge or remember or even know what anything else was that it scanned.

IF they were, and it would be ease as fuck to check then I would buy the game only for the purpous to sue them and get a million or more in cash.

What we are objecting to is the principle that my computer/home/car is not to be scanned by a company, individual or government if there's no warrent for my arrest. It is written in plain english that you are giving them the right to do this, so it's not as if you can throw your toys out of the pram becuase you did not read something that you agreed to. No one is forcing anyone to play it so i don't see why there is all the drama. If you don't like it you have a fucking choice!



It is wrong because it threatens as such the personal integrity. It is not important if Blizzard is doing damage or not: It is only important that it could do so if it wished.
What the fuck don't you retards realise about this?
So we are preventing things that could do dammage now? it's just a tool. I could use a cam to spy on you i might not, but fuck it ban it anyway.

I will also say again just to drill it the fuck home to you that you have GIVEN THEM PERMISSION TO DO IT!!!!


Doesn't WoW client scan only your running programs and not your hard drive?another good point, scanning a HD takes a while and slows shit down.

people are just paranoid, and a little retarded...

Tharkon Fargor
06-04-2008, 17:14
You didn't share information on what's going about. You shared information on what you fear is going about.
Alright, enough troll bait for me. Here's your tinfoil hat back, you wise, omniscient adolescent.
But really. I understand people who aren't in any way alarmed by this, to that there's some logic. Such as Spinewire.

Those I do not understand are those who deny the existance of the phenomenon as such.

Those who despite speeches deny the existance of a new world order plan for example.
I do not know the plan nor do I claim to know it - but a plan to place a new world order and replace the old one exists. Plenty of influential people including presidents have spoken about it, sadly people who call themselves "conservatives" but that's an other story. Now you might not be alarmed by this but denying it makes you the tinfoiled conspiracy-theorist, doesn't it?

To refer back to my post; As games and the internet have "progressed" so has the invasion of our privacy. Information is stored longer in the servers you visit such as Google.
Google also reads and scans through all your G-mail including that of incoming messages from people who haven't even signed the EULA. - This I am 100% sure of, do you deny it still?

Blizzard according to all information I have gathered (If I'm wrong I'm wrong, no questions asked) scans computers to see if you are using illegal programs.
Ofcourse you might deny that there is any chance for google to missuse that information but it still gathers it and that is what alarms me.

EA with its BF2142 installs small spyware that records your surfing habits and sends this information back to EA which later puts the most relevant adds in your BF 2142 game. This is true, it is even written in the EULA.

Now the last thing not only you have to admit exists but you also should be alarmed by it because it is clearly an invasion of your privacy.

Yet you take your time to insult me and make fun out of me. Sure it's the internet but I don't doubt you'd do it in real life to.

So why are you doing it?


_____

@ Spinewire.

You're right, I should calm down but you should learn to read.
I am not alarmed by what a program is doing. I am alarmed with what it could be doing. By giving a program access to your computer, it could if the operator who owned it wanted change from scanning to collecting data. Now Blizzard is probably not doing this, actually I am 99.9% sure they aren't. But they might and that's the issue here.


will also say again just to drill it the fuck home to you that you have GIVEN THEM PERMISSION TO DO IT!!!!

Yup I know. That's why I shared this article to warn people about at reading the EULA before they sign up for anything.

Spinewire
06-04-2008, 17:19
fuck me cry much.....


"Waaah i have a great life and your all the shit on my shoe"

"I have published works"



Yet you take your time to insult me and make fun out of me. Sure it's the internet but I don't doubt you'd do it in real life to.
I'm really sure you would call me a fucking twat to my face aswell...

Not only have you no spine you are a hypocrite aswell, you sir have disapointed me today as you normaly don't come across as a complete cock.


i suggest you reroll on df and try again.

Tharkon Fargor
06-04-2008, 17:27
You're not so innocent yourself Spine, so let's throw some more mud around:

needs a fucking slap. also needs a fucking slap. tinfoil hat for my liking. That artical was really fucking weak...


So like compared to "fucking twat"... well we're about the same eh?
I do respect your opinion though. And I know you can read.
I just hate it when people twist someones words. Nobody has suggested Blizzard is doing it. Okey?

Senti
06-04-2008, 17:31
Let's re-rail this thread really quick here.

DID IT JUST OCCUR TO YOU IDIOTS THAT WE'RE GETTING SCREWED BY GAME DEVS?!!!!
OMGZZZLAWLZ.

Go eat so many beans you explode if that just rang your doorbell.

Tharkon Fargor
06-04-2008, 17:32
To some people it hasn't occured yet :/ that's the problem.

Spinewire
06-04-2008, 17:35
You're not so innocent yourself Spine, so let's throw some more mud around:
i never said i was


I do respect your opinion though.Yea you do now i had to fucking drop it on you like a bomb, i bet the japs wern't so fucking cheaky after they got nuked either.


I just hate it when people twist someones words. Nobody has suggested Blizzard is doing it. Okey?No they were suggesting that a human looking through you bank details is the same as a computer scanning a file they are contained in, which is laughable, and would result in me wanting to slap the silly out of them.

Eskareon
06-04-2008, 17:37
Companies have gathered literal tons of information from people for years and years now. It's not a new thing, it's not really "invasion of privacy." Perhaps you don't like knowing that everything you buy with a check or credit card, that what you watch on television, that what you look at on the internet, it's all recorded. Maybe that scares you, but it would only scare you because you're a pessimist, because you've got these grand conspiracy theories in your head.

The information gathered is used for things like marketing and advertising. That's great, if you put down your tinfoil hat and think about it. Most people who are watching television or playing games want to be entertained. They want their preferences to be matched with their luxuries. So, if a company gathers information on what you like to view on the internet and embeds it into your in-game advertisements, they are providing you a good luxury, they are providing you with an amazing convenience. And the information you give to the companies helps them to provide you with more of the things that you want. It helps you, it helps them.

Could the information they gather be used to harm you? Sure, of course it could. Just like your bank could secretly sell your personal information. Just like your contractor could loot your house while you're out shopping. Just like the Darkfall forums could sell your personal information to the highest bidder. Yet none of this stops you from using services like these because you have the basic understanding that most businesses and organizations are honest, that the liability they incur from doing illegal activities far outweighs the benefit.

Really, trying to fear-monger everyone into being suspect of a company like Blizzard is just ignorant. You can say, "oh, it's not Blizzard I care about, it's the principle!" but that's also ignorant. You don't truly care about the principle - if you did, you'd realize how hypocritical it is for you to be insisting on extreme regulations that would literally remove most of the luxuries that you are enjoying right now.

Ragnika
06-04-2008, 17:50
Am I missing something when I read that Warden scans your RAM and not your entire hard drive?

I mean, the way I see it if you had a 3rd party cheat running or even a suspected cheat then that is the information being transmitted back to Blizzard so they can make the decision.

People have painted this picture that Warden goes through every file on your hard drive like a virus scan and transmits whatever it can extract back to Blizzard. I really don't think that's the case.

Spinewire
06-04-2008, 17:52
Am I missing something when I read that Warden scans your RAM and not your entire hard drive?

I mean, the way I see it if you had a 3rd party cheat running or even a suspected cheat then that is the information being transmitted back to Blizzard so they can make the decision.

People have painted this picture that Warden goes through every file on your hard drive like a virus scan and transmits whatever it can extract back to Blizzard. I really don't think that's the case.
no it would take fucking ages and slow your shit down to a crawl.

Ragnika
06-04-2008, 17:55
no it would take fucking ages and slow your shit down to a crawl.

That's what I thought.

Spinewire
06-04-2008, 18:01
i still think blizzard is evil tho...

i hope starcraft 2 does not suck :(

Uzik
06-04-2008, 18:07
How is Punkbuster a bigger concern?
Punkbuster checks if you have a cheating program running*
So of the 25+ programs running compared to the millions of files you have it is less of a concern.

It's only a concern if you are a cheater :) Then you brough it on yourself.

Punkbuster and the Blizzard thing work almost identically. The difference is that Punk Buster insists that it is always running. The Blizzard thing only wants to run when WoW is playing.

Tharkon Fargor
06-04-2008, 18:09
You said it yourself.
Could the information be used to harm you? - Sure, ofcourse it could.

There's times when sadly you have to risk something to gain something.
These "risks" you take have already been abused many times and thus it is best if you avoid taking them as much as possible where ever possible it is. Doesn't that sound logical?

Lives have been ruined, mostly those of politicians - the same people who enforce such laws or fail to protect privacy. Ah the irony.
Skilled journalists or well connected journalists have through "sources" managed to get recorded tapes, phone calls and other things from cameras, voice recorders or phone companies which never should have been out in the public.

There have also been incidents in places where Cameras are common where footage has been sold to the highest bidder or abused. AS you said, "ofcourse it could" - and it has.


Thus knowing the threats and learning how to protect yourself from them should be essential in every freedom aspiring human being. The greatest luxury we have is our freedom and those who put it below that of advertisement or material things deserve to loose both.

The easiest thing ofcourse is to destroy threats to our privacy where they are not needed. The BF2142 thing is one of these prime examples. If the company forces those who wish to have the game (forces the consumer that is, ofcourse not the individual - don't you dare twist this to) to first buy it and then subject themselves to an invasion of their privacy unseen before where your internet habits are *recorded* (not just scanned anonymously) so that you may recive the "appropriate" advertisement then the consumer should refuse to buy that game. That is what consumer power is - the only real power the normal citizen has in a capitalist society outside the parliamentary democracy.

People must learn to vote with their dollar and that is what I and other people and organisations try to enlighten people about.
And you are the fear-monger not I.
All I advocate is ignoring that which poses a threat to ones integrity.
You and those like you are the fear-mongers.
Those who scare people into submission, into accepting cameras, into accepting control, into accepting restrictions on their freedoms and their privacy because otherwise they would be hurting. Because without these things it would be impossible to have a working economy and safe nation to live in.Right?

YOU are the fear-monger, the dirt on our shoes. Not I.
You advocate the extreme regulations in our daily lives and the book long contracts for every purchase we make. Not I.

I do not insist on extreme regulations, I insist only on consumer power.
Shame on you.

Spinewire
06-04-2008, 18:14
thats better stick to your guns son, don't let these fuckers drag you down...

Tharkon Fargor
06-04-2008, 18:18
Am I missing something when I read that Warden scans your RAM and not your entire hard drive?

I mean, the way I see it if you had a 3rd party cheat running or even a suspected cheat then that is the information being transmitted back to Blizzard so they can make the decision.

People have painted this picture that Warden goes through every file on your hard drive like a virus scan and transmits whatever it can extract back to Blizzard. I really don't think that's the case.


I don't know about that, I'm no expert on WoW.
But no way it could go further eh?

http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2008/02/nations-spies-w.html
:bang: <--- This is far worse than the "EULA" though. And the only way this is going to work is if Blizzard and the consumer accepts it.


(i) the Random Access Memory (“RAM”) that is occupied by the World of Warcraft program to confirm that the World of Warcraft program has not been altered or “hacked” in violation of the World of Warcraft Terms of Use;
(ii) the World of Warcraft ‘process’ to determine if any unauthorized third party programs or computer code has been attached to the World of Warcraft process; and
(iii) the Windows Process List to determine if any confirmed hacking or cheating programs are presently open in violation of the World of Warcraft Terms of Use.

That's what the scan does. Not that scarry as portrayed in the Video I admit but still. Scanning my RAM would mean that for example if I have illegal program overall running that they could easily report me and threaten my privacy. Example of this could be a hacking utility I use to play Wargames with.

Spinewire
06-04-2008, 18:32
Scanning my RAM would mean that for example if I have illegal program overall running that they could easily report me and threaten my privacy.
They could come round your house and rape your cat aswell... other than the fact they don't like sloppy seconds nothing is stopping them. They would have to create a huge list to search for every type of program that you would want to keep hidden, also how would it tell if it was illegal unless it started checking the CD keys and checking them with a central database of that particular product.... your tin foil hat is on too tight.

Oh they would get sued fucking silly aswell.

Tharkon Fargor
06-04-2008, 18:36
The Tin foil thing is getting old dude. And you keep repeating yourself.
I know they rob my house and rape my cat (if I had any cat).

But that's why I have a door on my house and a firewall in my computer.
And if someone would request me to open the door to them as much as WoW requests from its players I would refuse them that privilege if it wasn't a personal friend or a repairman I had called to come and had time to prepare for, tidy up and remove those porno videos from the table.
And that would only be once every 6 months not every day that I live (a.k.a. play WoW).

The thing is you don't seem to like having a door that you can close.
Now could you please read my bigger reply, my viewpoint is much better explained there.
I don't really care about WoW as I've never touched that piece of crap anyway.

Spinewire
06-04-2008, 18:41
The Tin foil thing is getting old dude. And you keep repeating yourself.
I know they rob my house and rape my cat (if I had any cat).

My comment about them not wanting sloppy seconds was inferring you raped your own cat.



The thing is you don't seem to like having a door that you can close.
Don't press "i agree" when they patch the game and change the eula.

Ragnika
06-04-2008, 18:50
I don't know about that, I'm no expert on WoW.
But no way it could go further eh?

http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2008/02/nations-spies-w.html
:bang: <--- This is far worse than the "EULA" though. And the only way this is going to work is if Blizzard and the consumer accepts it.

I'm a little confused why you linked this. Are you trying to say that things are slated to get much worse than simply scanning your RAM?



(i) the Random Access Memory (“RAM”) that is occupied by the World of Warcraft program to confirm that the World of Warcraft program has not been altered or “hacked” in violation of the World of Warcraft Terms of Use;
(ii) the World of Warcraft ‘process’ to determine if any unauthorized third party programs or computer code has been attached to the World of Warcraft process; and
(iii) the Windows Process List to determine if any confirmed hacking or cheating programs are presently open in violation of the World of Warcraft Terms of Use.

What is this for? I read the EULA and terms of use, at least for Warcraft, before I posted. I know what the scan does, which is why I posted.


That's what the scan does. Not that scarry as portrayed in the Video I admit but still.

Did I miss a video somewhere?


Scanning my RAM would mean that for example if I have illegal program overall running that they could easily report me and threaten my privacy. Example of this could be a hacking utility I use to play Wargames with.

What is the problem with scanning your shit if you agree to it? It's no longer a threat if you let them in.

You're kinda all over the place man so it's hard for me to follow; bear with me.

Eskareon
06-04-2008, 18:53
The thing is you don't seem to like having a door that you can close.

I think it would be nice if a game like BF (or SWAT) had the option to turn off the real advertisements. But I also realize that those advertising dollars are what helped pay for the game as well. If I have the option to turn off the ads, I probably would. If the option isn't there, then I'll either ignore the ads, or I'll just walk past the game on the store shelf instead of picking it up. What I won't do is throw a tantrum and accuse businesses of invading my privacy.

Oh, and please stop trying to twist words and arguments. You're fear-mongering, not me. You're trying to instill distrust and paranoia by asserting that, inevitably, the bad will happen. The rest of us are saying, "hey, it could happen, but we don't care. The benefit outweighs the remote possibility that Blizzard is going to steal my credit card information." That's not fear-mongering in the slightest. You, however, would have us worry and protest out of nothing more than paranoia.

That's all you've been doing this entire time. Hey, guys, this terrible thing could happen, this bad thing will happen. But I'm not fear-mongering! I'm just speaking the truth! You're the real fear-mongerers! Waaah!

I am not surprised that you are 19. You'll probably love college, as it tends to be the breeding ground of radical liberal paranoia and ideals that are based on heresay and what-ifs. Yes, Bush bombs babies, and our cell phones are being recorded by a thousand square miles of supercomputers, and, yes, all the major figureheads in the world are secretly plotting a New World Order.

Better put your food in your microwave and start building your lead bunker. Don't forget to buy plenty of aluminum foil for your hats.

Tharkon Fargor
06-04-2008, 21:02
I'm a little confused why you linked this. Are you trying to say that things are slated to get much worse than simply scanning your RAM?
Yep. Obviously according to the article. Though the idiot above me fails to acknowledge it.


What is this for? I read the EULA and terms of use, at least for Warcraft, before I posted. I know what the scan does, which is why I posted. It's for everyone including you I guess that asked "does it scan your hardrive?". I wasn'st sure myself so I looked it up.



What is the problem with scanning your shit if you agree to it? It's no longer a threat if you let them in.
Exacly. People shouldn't agree to it in my opinion. But that is just my opinion, take it for that and nothing ellse. PS: I also think many do not even know about it.


I think it would be nice if a game like BF (or SWAT) had the option...
As you won't reply to to the post that was directed towards you I don't think I should honour you with one more extensive reply...Especially when the only thing you manage to do is make assumptions of who I am and what sort of ideology I have and even what I think Bush does.

All I'll say is the same again: You and your sort are the fearmongers who say that a society without this much invasion in our privacy in terms of control, monitoring and scanning can't work well. Not me.

Eskareon
06-04-2008, 21:13
...and even what I think Bush does.

I wasn't referring specifically to you. It was a sarcastic statement toward the general attitude of college campuses. Reading comprehension?


All I'll say is again the same: You and your like are the fearmongers who say that a society without this much invasion in our privacy in terms of control, monitoring and scanning can't work well. Not me.

I never said nor implied that it wouldn't work well. Don't assume such silliness.

What you call "invasion of privacy" is providing unprecedented amounts of luxury and convenience to millions of people. That's all I said. I didn't say our economy couldn't function without it. Like I said, my opinion has absolutely zero "fear" element. It is the statement of a realist.

You, on the other hand, are a fear-mongerer. You exude unjustified paranoia. You take a few minute examples of when certain systems are used with corruption and you apply them, blanket-style, to every system that you perceive as the slightest bit intrusive to your "privacy."

Kids like you are a dime a dozen, sorry to say. So self-righteous, so full of baseless ideals and paranoia against "the man." You tout a self-proclaimed concern for privacy, but you don't even know what the term means. You don't even understand the systems that you're rallying against.

But, hey, you read something somewhere by someone, and deep down you starting burning with passion against those unknown and unnamed arbiters who are invading your privacy.

Textbook. That's all you've been.

Tharkon Fargor
06-04-2008, 21:18
Please read my post and I will read yours. Alright?
For example...I'm tired of talking to you but: I find the biggest luxury to be my freedom.
I also go in explaining more about that. Do read the post again and quote it before we go on talking, alright? I'd like it if you could quote part for part which you don't agree with - I promise I'll do the same.



I wasn't referring specifically to you. It was a sarcastic statement toward the general attitude of college campuses. Reading comprehension?

Common, to easy. I'm involved in journalism and politics - don't you think I can counter this? <g>.
The question is really what you are winning from doing this crap.
Now I won't reply to any more of your posts untill you address the main post I made for you.


I am not surprised that you are 19. You'll*(You will) probably love college, as it->That which I choose tends to be the breeding ground of radical liberal paranoia---> which I will like? .(Bla bla)

<Sigh> Fool, stop making assumptions and stop attempting character defamation.
That just makes the debate get all hostile'n shit. A bunch of insults is ok...but common keep it "civil".

Eskareon
06-04-2008, 21:36
Please read my post and I will read yours.

I read all of your posts in their entirety. I address what I want to address, ignore what is typically pointless to respond to.


I'm tired of talking to you....

Then, please, don't respond anymore. I won't be offended, I promise.


I find the biggest luxury to be my freedom.

Absurd blanket statement. Your freedom? You mean the liberties that your government gives you? Freedom to drive, to say what is on your mind, to watch TV and surf the internet? I think if you would start dissecting what you consider "freedom" into their real categories - rights and privileges - you'd be surprised to find how many of your "freedoms" are actually privileges granted to you by the authorities.


Now I won't reply to any more of your posts untill you address the main post I made for you.

I was going to finish replying in detail, but then I realized the weight behind your words:


Common, to easy. I'm involved in journalism and politics - don't you think I can counter this? <g>.

That sums you up nicely. It also explains how you are able to not realize how proudly ignorant you are. I don't think I'm going to be able expose how stereotypically juvenile you are, so I'm just going to let you continue flailing your arms.

Kids these days.

Tharkon Fargor
06-04-2008, 21:43
Ahh...fascists/neo-conservatives these days, the same liars 50 years ago when they said freedom was freedom from being a communist or 100 years ago when they said freedom was freedom from blacks. Now it's freedom from freedom that's the shit.

And obviously telling someone that they like the same fruit as those who specificly like apples and oranges is not telling someone that they like apples or oranges.

Truth is falsehood. Lovely.

EDIT: Let's all just toast for the super-awesome mix of Fahreinheit 451 and 1984!

Eskareon
06-04-2008, 22:17
Truth is falsehood.

Coming from someone who is basing their argument on sheer paranoia, that's cute.

Here's the trick - you sound exactly like countless other generations of young people who have passed through the same stage you are passing through. Some of them grew up, got jobs, and through various mediums realized that most of their passionate disdain was ill-placed and unfounded and untrue. Some didn't grow up, and they still continue to try to piece together ambiguities, hunches, and theories into grand schemes of corruption and conspiracies.

Really, you aren't saying anything that hasn't been said decade after decade. Same argument, different clothing.

Alluding back to the subject of this thread, however: learn to differentiate between real privacy and personal information and entertainment. Remember, Blizzard's cheat detection is part of a computer game, a luxury entertainment. Battlefield's system, the same. These are all systems of luxury, systems of entertainment. They are virtually synonymous with other systems and mediums for entertainment and indulgence - food, drink, movies, music, etc. It's one thing to trace someone's personal bank account information, it's another to trace the video games and movies they like to watch.

Tharkon Fargor
06-04-2008, 22:27
Oh how I hate people who quote only small parts of entire posts and take them out of context... You are despicable.

Eskareon
06-04-2008, 23:30
Oh how I hate people who quote only small parts of entire posts and take them out of context... You are despicable.

It wasn't out of context. If you had decent reading comprehension, you'd have realized that I was addressing your posting behavior in its entirety.

It seems you are happy with rambling instead of real discourse. Your writing skills are weak, your reading comprehension is weak, and your zeal is overdone. Like I said, you're acting like countless other youths.

Anyways, you've already rambled yourself far, far off topic, ignoring multiple opportunities to continue to discuss "privacy invasion" and the like. But, you're young, you're proud, and you've a liking for "journalism and politics." I guess I shouldn't expect much more from you.

Tharkon Fargor
06-04-2008, 23:48
Your writing skills are weak, your reading comprehension is weak,

Hah.
Hah.
Hah.



I wasn't referring specifically to you. It was a sarcastic statement toward the general attitude of college campuses. Reading comprehension?

You already lost this for example. Because you know what you were trying to do when you put me in a category with a certain sort of people that makes it easier to win a debate.

And when I confronted you with this two times you ignored it.

Not to mention you ignored the main post You said it yourself.
Could the information be used to harm you? - Sure, ofcourse it could.

There's times when sadly you have to risk something to gain something.
These "risks" you take have already been abused many times and thus it is best if you avoid taking them as much as possible where ever possible it is. Doesn't that sound logical?

Lives have been ruined, mostly those of politicians - the same people who enforce such laws or fail to protect privacy. Ah the irony.
Skilled journalists or well connected journalists have through "sources" managed to get recorded tapes, phone calls and other things from cameras, voice recorders or phone companies which never should have been out in the public.

There have also been incidents in places where Cameras are common where footage has been sold to the highest bidder or abused. AS you said, "ofcourse it could" - and it has.


Thus knowing the threats and learning how to protect yourself from them should be essential in every freedom aspiring human being. The greatest luxury we have is our freedom and those who put it below that of advertisement or material things deserve to loose both.

The easiest thing ofcourse is to destroy threats to our privacy where they are not needed. The BF2142 thing is one of these prime examples. If the company forces those who wish to have the game (forces the consumer that is, ofcourse not the individual - don't you dare twist this to) to first buy it and then subject themselves to an invasion of their privacy unseen before where your internet habits are *recorded* (not just scanned anonymously) so that you may recive the "appropriate" advertisement then the consumer should refuse to buy that game. That is what consumer power is - the only real power the normal citizen has in a capitalist society outside the parliamentary democracy.

People must learn to vote with their dollar and that is what I and other people and organisations try to enlighten people about.
And you are the fear-monger not I.
All I advocate is ignoring that which poses a threat to ones integrity.
You and those like you are the fear-mongers.
Those who scare people into submission, into accepting cameras, into accepting control, into accepting restrictions on their freedoms and their privacy because otherwise they would be hurting. Because without these things it would be impossible to have a working economy and safe nation to live in.Right?

YOU are the fear-monger, the dirt on our shoes. Not I.
You advocate the extreme regulations in our daily lives and the book long contracts for every purchase we make. Not I.

I do not insist on extreme regulations, I insist only on consumer power.
Shame on you.


Your only real defense is that we should accept them tracking our internet habbits (only those of Movie and Music ofcourse, they wouldn't dare tracking the other habbits right? Dummy) as they are what makes this world of luxury products possible.

You ofcourse also have an other defense, which I am truly getting sick of by now:
Insulting me and trying to defame my character by saying I am to young, that I lack the writting skills and that I basicly am a stupid little rebel teen who hopefully will grow out of this.

I'll tell you what I hope for.
I hope for a world that proves me wrong and the likes of Spinewire right.
I do hope that those like you who actually advocate this and say it makes our world a better place are rejected by the community in any scenario.

For me I hope only to be able to look my grandchildren in the eye and say I did everything I could. That I wasn't a mindless drone who went along but a responsible citizen who tried to question everything even himself.

That I didn't put my headphones on in the subway or when I was lying in my bed so that I didn't hear the words and thoughts both my own and that of others.
But instead took every one of those moments when I had nothing to do to ponder about how I could do something.

Eskareon
06-05-2008, 00:11
I hope for a world that proves me wrong.

You're living in it. That's the point, kid. You know why your grocery and store purchases are tracked with your zipcode? So stores, producers, distributors, and all the other contributors to you getting your product can get that product to you. So the people who provide you your food and your goods can look at a huge sample of data and decide the products that best match the consumer demand - you know, what people want.

You know why games like SWAT and Battlefield track your entertainment preferences? So they can look at a huge sample of data and decide the products that best match the consumer demand - you know, what people want.

That is the primary reason your "privacy" is "invaded." Because a heck of a lot of other people enjoy convenience and enjoy having what they want given to them.

You know why Blizzard's cheat detection scans your computer? To keep cheaters from ruining millions of other peoples' gaming experience.

You need to stop talking and think about what actually "proves you right." A few isolated examples of corruption? Compared to literally millions of examples of the system working perfectly? That's all you've got?

Correct answer: Yes, that is all you've got.

This goes right back to what I said earlier - your arguments are unbased, unless you consider paranoia a proper base. You are a fear-mongerer. You are living in a world where millions of people are having their standards of living increased, and you are pointing to a few flaws and saying, "see! You are all blind sheep! Can't you see what's really going on? If this could happen there, that means it is going to happen everywhere! Your freedoms are being removed, your privacy invaded!"

No, kid, their privacy isn't being invaded. They are welcoming the 'prying' with open arms because its guaranteed benefit far, far outweighs the cost of, "it might possibly be used improperly."

I think it would help if, while you're in college, you sign up for some solid marketing, advertising, media, and information technology classes. It'll help you understand the way the world works, and, hopefully, it's quell some of your anxiety of privacy invasion.

Tharkon Fargor
06-05-2008, 00:42
How can you defend something as disgusting as this?
You're actually sitting here and defending spyware. Making them legal because they help the corporations by giving them free information about us?

Information that they usually would have to pay for. In terms of marketevaluation and customer research.

And then you have the...arrogance to tell me to ignore the actual cases where not only has the consumers privacy been invaded but also where that information gathered while invading the persons privacy has been abused?!

We are seeing freedom in decline all over the western civilized world and it is not only in terms of computer scannings as I have mentioned before.
It's monitoring or phone conversations, monitoring the streets, RFID chips etc. The US president spied on his own population godamnit..."for the security of all".

And that upset people!

But you're telling me that when EA records your internet habbits and I mean ALL of them not just the movie and music part that it is okey because of it helps them market products easier?


So in retrospect what you are saying is either that a fucking corporation getting it's research for free is of bigger importance than national security or you are actually a completely brainwashed fool saying that what Bush did to his own people was O.K.

Listen pal, I think we will have to agree not only to disagree but that I with my every living breath will fight people like you and I guess you people like Me.

Senti
06-05-2008, 01:15
What's with all the big posts?

This is off-topic, this entire thread is tl;dr

Damn assholes.

Could we get summaries at the end of each post? I'm bored and listening to tunes and don't want to utilize my brain today.

Spinewire
06-05-2008, 02:47
my cock is bigger than your cock tho

Senti
06-05-2008, 02:51
my cock is bigger than your cock tho

True, but it's hard to compare with someone who had to get plastic surgery to make their pathetically small wee wee the size of Britain. Oh.
And I was referring to you there.

Yea, that could backfire.

could I get a link to your old sig?
I remember loving looking at it every time I saw it... It was awesome...

*sighs wistfully*

Eskareon
06-05-2008, 03:08
You're actually sitting here and defending spyware.

If you agreed to the EULA, then it isn't spyware. It's consumer research.

I would never defend spyware; i.e., unallowed tracking of someone's surfing habits. However, if you agree to a contract before playing the game, then, well, you agreed to the contract.

Please note that I am not saying I like this type of consumer research. If I have the option to disable it, I disable it. But that's because I don't like my bandwith being sucked for it, and I don't like seeing contemporary advertisements in my games as it ruins the immersion.

"Alright, breach the west door on my count... 3... 2... holy crap, Survivor is on tomorrow night?! I gotta make sure to Tiv---"

"-- POLITZIA!!!" *bang bang*

"Reload last checkpoint?"


Information that they usually would have to pay for.

They do pay for it. They pay the game's developers and publishers to gather the information, or for the information. They also pay for their ads to be in the game. It's more effective and accurate than going through research groups. I can't say whether it's more expensive, though, because I don't know how much they pay for it.


And then you have the...arrogance to tell me to ignore the actual cases where not only has the consumers privacy been invaded but also where that information gathered while invading the persons privacy has been abused?!

I'm not asking you to ignore any cases. I'm asking you to instead look at how well a system succeeds - to be cliche, don't miss the forest for the trees. You can take virtually any system and find plenty of bad examples, but you have to analyze the real risk and probability of those examples.

How many cases of vehicular homicide exist? Armed robbery? Children suffocating in grocery bags? Drowning in residential pools? Lenders ripping off debtors? Postal workers stealing packages? Yet none of these systems are extinguished due to their bad examples.


It's monitoring or phone conversations

If your phone conversation is monitored, you either have suspect history or are close to someone who does. Joe Shmoe on the corner of Main and 13th isn't having his phone conversations recorded, no matter how many times he says, "I'm going to kill the President," or, "I'm going to blow up the White House."

Unless, of course, his friends turn him in.


monitoring the streets

Streets... as in, when you're walking around in public? Outside? Do you really expect privacy when you're on the street?


RFID chips

RFID technology has helped us in unfathomable ways. I'm going to assume you are referring to a specific implementation of the technology, not RFID as a whole.


Listen pal, I think we will have to agree not only to disagree but that I with my every living breath will fight people like you and I guess you people like Me.

What was that I said about your zeal...

Death's Chill
06-05-2008, 04:08
You'll get a congrats when you buy a house.

You mean buy it with money loaned from the bank, paying absurd interest for half of your life?

No thanks.

People who rush in to buy a house with loaned money are morons. Renting an apartment is just fine.


I was published while in highschool. And I can tell you this - it doesn't mean anything.


Sure you were.

It doesn't mean anything? You've got to be kidding me. That's like saying effort means nothing. It's not about financial statements, but more about experience. He'll get something out of it, regardless of how well it sells.



For now.

Why attack his intelligence when you hardly even know him?




You didn't share information on what's going about. You shared information on what you fear is going about.

Alright, enough troll bait for me. Here's your tinfoil hat back, you wise, omniscient adolescent.

Oh okay, we're starting the stereotypes against teenagers now? By the way, he said he's 19. That's a legal adult, so you can put away your clever bag of quips because they don't mean much, and this applies correctly now. ;)

Spinewire
06-05-2008, 11:48
True, but it's hard to compare with someone who had to get plastic surgery to make their pathetically small wee wee the size of Britain. Oh.
And I was referring to you there.

Yea, that could backfire.

could I get a link to your old sig?
I remember loving looking at it every time I saw it... It was awesome...

*sighs wistfully*
My taste like happy sig that got banned or the branded breasts? I don't have the latter anymore :(

Eskareon
06-05-2008, 12:19
You mean buy it with money loaned from the bank, paying absurd interest for half of your life?

Don't forget that if you're paying a mortgage, some of your payment goes to interest, some goes to equity. And if you bought a house smart, then even if you are paying only interest, you are still gaining equity in the house as its value rises.

Renting, on the other hand, is a pure money sink. It's useful to rent if you don't have much income, or if you don't have good credit. But if you can afford a house, you should get a house. You'll pay (read: lose) more money when you're renting than when you're paying a mortgage, because you don't earn equity paying your rent.


It doesn't mean anything? You've got to be kidding me. That's like saying effort means nothing. It's not about financial statements, but more about experience. He'll get something out of it, regardless of how well it sells.

Anyone can be published, it isn't hard to do at all. It's fun, it's a good learning experience, but it's hardly something to brag about. Just like renting.


Why attack his intelligence when you hardly even know him?

That wasn't an attack on his intelligence.

Zwarp
06-05-2008, 12:22
What's with all the big posts?

This is off-topic, this entire thread is tl;dr

Damn assholes.

Could we get summaries at the end of each post? I'm bored and listening to tunes and don't want to utilize my brain today.

Haha, QFT
They should only have so many tl;dr allowed by thread

Tharkon Fargor
06-05-2008, 13:28
tl;dr r0x.

Shit's already established: The Big Gaming Companies use sneaky methods to increase profits, spy on our internet habits and outclass other smaller companies.

Now there's a faggot defending this shit as not only something you signed up for (well he's falling back to that now) but that it's also an important part of our society that makes it possible.

And when someone is telling me that we can't have a working society without companies producing products that infringe on our rights more and more I say fuck you, sometimes it's more fun to say fuck you with a tl;dr post though.


And ofcourse im zealous about my fucking freedom.
That jerkoff wouldn't even answer on my question about Bush monitoring the entire US population as Sweden is going to do soon looking for "keywords" and shit.

He either seems to think that it's OK to do that or that national security is less important than big corporations as he advocates at least big corporations having the right to put spyware in products.

Eskareon
06-05-2008, 15:51
And now you're just trolling. Sad that you are so passionate, so zealous, but you can't control yourself to carry on a real conversation.

Throw up your rock fist, kid. You're going to change the world and protect your freedoms, just like millions of other kids have been saying for generations.

Lethn
06-05-2008, 16:01
fuck off you arrogant shit bag, as far as the LAW is concerned spyware is considered an illegal piece of software no matter how you try to gloss it over, no contract can revoke that and nor will it ever the only weight a license agreement carries is that you are allowed one copy of the game installed per computer no contract can state that it is legally within a companies right to install spyware on your computer that is capable of stealing and recording personal information from you and invade your privacy.

If you want to be a patronizing dick that's fine, but take a look at the facts before you go spewing bullshit like some old bureaucratic asshole that has enough time on his hands to be trolling on a forum and denying anything anyone ever says, I've read quite a lot of your past posts and it seems for the most part you've just signed up here to troll other people for no reason, get a life.

Surly
06-05-2008, 16:18
fuck off you arrogant shit bag, as far as the LAW is concerned spyware is considered an illegal piece of software no matter how you try to gloss it over, no contract can revoke that and nor will it ever the only weight a license agreement carries is that you are allowed one copy of the game installed per computer no contract can state that it is legally within a companies right to install spyware on your computer that is capable of stealing and recording personal information from you and invade your privacy.

If you want to be a patronizing dick that's fine, but take a look at the facts before you go spewing bullshit like some old bureaucratic asshole that has enough time on his hands to be trolling on a forum and denying anything anyone ever says, I've read quite a lot of your past posts and it seems for the most part you've just signed up here to troll other people for no reason, get a life.Man, you sure got him good... breaking down into an emotional tirade and calling him an arrogant shit bag! That's the way to win an argument. At least, it was last time I talked to a 3 year old.

If you agree to market research in a contract during program installation, there's nothing illegal about the "spyware" you're deriding. I believe he pointed that out earlier, you're just being an emotional windbag who's got his feelings all hurt. Don't you find it a little hypocritical to express discontent for an "arrogant" shit bag while at the same time demanding you have some divine right to climb on a high horse and go crusading against the perceived injustices of the world, a throng of like-minded self-righteous zealots at your back with similarly emotional motivations?

Matriel
06-05-2008, 16:27
I just got a mental image of Surly taking his leather belt off and spanking his kid for being stupid. It was amazing.

Aragoni
06-05-2008, 16:31
This thread is so damn epic...! Keep up the good work boys! :)

Lethn
06-05-2008, 16:31
lawl? I just posted on this thread after a few pages so it clearly wasn't directed at me and this is hardly an emotional tirade, yes if they specifically STATE that the spyware is to be used for marketing purposes only then I suppose that would be legal though I'm no expert on the subject and I honestly doubt that you are either, but the point is these companies have not been doing that in fact they've given very little mention of this software at all, there have been advertisements in games before and they have not required to have spyware installed anywhere.

Plus the only reason I went into an 'emotional tirade' was to shut the guy up because he was clearly trolling and if you'll look at his previous posts on almost any other thread you'll see why I think that. Also I'd like to point out that I'm 18 and I LOVE the fact that you guys are following the exact same pattern as him :)

Surly
06-05-2008, 16:39
lawl? I just posted on this thread after a few pages so it clearly wasn't directed at me and this is hardly an emotional tirade, yes if they specifically STATE that the spyware is to be used for marketing purposes only then I suppose that would be legal though I'm no expert on the subject and I honestly doubt that you are either, but the point is these companies have not been doing that in fact they've given very little mention of this software at all, there have been advertisements in games before and they have not required to have spyware installed anywhere.

Plus the only reason I went into an 'emotional tirade' was to shut the guy up because he was clearly trolling and if you'll look at his previous posts on almost any other thread you'll see why I think that. Also I'd like to point out that I'm 18 and I LOVE the fact that you guys are following the exact same pattern as him :)
I don't see how he was trolling at all, the only thing I see is how he pissed you off and got under your skin by making a rational, logical argument that you couldn't compute.

Lethn
06-05-2008, 16:49
do I honestly seem that pissed off to you? Nice quoting by the way

Eskareon
06-05-2008, 16:56
...then I suppose that would be legal though I'm no expert on the subject...

If you are unsure of what you're talking about, then why are you talking about it?

Game companies cannot legally install tracking software on your computer without your consent. If you install a game and no where in the EULA it states that such "spyware" will be part of the installation package then, yes, you can go after that company, legally.

Also, realize that the tracking software is designed to recognize very specific activity. It does not recognize nor extract things like your Word documents or Excel spreadsheets. So when you read articles that say, "it reads through all of your personal files," think of it this way - you could pull a few books off the library shelf and skim through them. But imagine those books were written in a language you didn't understand. It doesn't matter how much access you have to the information inside them, you can't understand it, it's useless to you.

And you can't take the book out of the library with you because you don't know which books say what... oh, and it would be very illegal.

Sure, someone could then teach you to read the language, and then they ask you to take certain books back with you, but then you'd be arrested and thrown in jail when you're caught.

Lethn
06-05-2008, 17:06
I'm pretty damn sure of what a EULA is supposed to be, I just wouldn't know the specifics of what can or can't be in it etc. etc. that's the kind of stuff only a lawyer or someone who studies specifically in that area can know, thanks for giving a response that wasn't just blatant trolling by the way.

Yes, of course spyware is programmed to specifically look for only certain information but the vast majority of companies have not stated properly on what they use it for or why, plus the risk behind placing such spyware is extremely high, for instance hackers could quite easily use it to their advantage if they wanted to and steal your personal information through there, or the spyware could have been programmed to also do something without you knowing once you've installed the stuff on your PC.

It's more about the risk of installing it than whether it's ethical, or right or wrong, unless the company involved is made to specifically state and program it for the use of one specific task and to only stay in the game then there is far too much risk involved in letting such a program onto your computer as it could be used for anything beyond just gathering some marketing data, there is no way to know with how easy accessing the internet is that your computer will be completely safe and if your personal information gets leaked or stolen then regardless of who did it the company is going to be the ones responsible anyway because they are the ones who supplied the spyware with the package.

Eskareon
06-05-2008, 17:17
You know, that argument can be used for any type of software.

Spinewire
06-05-2008, 17:20
Anyone care to paraphrase the points on this thread for me?

Ches
06-05-2008, 17:41
And ofcourse im zealous about my fucking freedom.
That jerkoff wouldn't even answer on my question about Bush monitoring the entire US population as Sweden is going to do soon looking for "keywords" and shit.

I have this mental picture of a house stocked with guns and ammo. Cans of Spam and bottled water as far as the eye can see. In a house surrounded in 15 foot tall barb wire fence in the middle of a religious compound deep in the backwoods.
Just because you are paranoid don’t mean that they are not after you. YES YOU, they are watching everything you do every minute of every day. They are loading up their black helicopters and getting in there unmarked black cars and coming down YOUR driveway as we speak. They have spent untold millions of dollars to see what kind of dirty website makes you the friskiest. They have a special council that meets twice a day just to talk over your gaming habits. All of this is part of a larger global plot ran by the corporate thugs who really control the world.
Soon all their plans will in place and they will make their move to take over the world. Then THEN we will be sorry for not having saved up our spam and lived in totally paranoia of the world around us.
Or....... Maybe you are just paranoid

Tharkon Fargor
06-05-2008, 17:43
I don't see how he was trolling at all, the only thing I see is how he pissed you off and got under your skin by making a rational, logical argument that you couldn't compute.

You may agree with him but it's bullshit that he made rational, logical arguments. I tried to do that at the start but all he could come up with was insulting my intelligence, my age and making guesses of what sort of person I am.

Half his posts (at least) are about this.
So as I'm tired of debating with a pompous brat I'll put it as plainly as I can:

The fucker is trying not only as spinewire say that having spyware (adware if you so wish) is OK if you sign the contract but that it is a GOOD thing that more and more companies try to squeeze in these things in their products.
I object to this and I am zealous in protecting my rights and I am proud of it. I am proud that I am passionate about it and other things I care about and I pitty those who have lost their will to fight for what they belive in.
Be that the same or completely different thing than I do.

Tharkon Fargor
06-05-2008, 17:50
I have this mental picture of a house stocked with guns and ammo. Cans of Spam and bottled water as far as the eye can see. In a house surrounded in 15 foot tall barb wire fence in the middle of a religious compound deep in the backwoods.
Just because you are paranoid don’t mean that they are not after you. YES YOU, they are watching everything you do every minute of every day. They are loading up their black helicopters and getting in there unmarked black cars and coming down YOUR driveway as we speak. They have spent untold millions of dollars to see what kind of dirty website makes you the friskiest. They have a special council that meets twice a day just to talk over your gaming habits. All of this is part of a larger global plot ran by the corporate thugs who really control the world.
Soon all their plans will in place and they will make their move to take over the world. Then THEN we will be sorry for not having saved up our spam and lived in totally paranoia of the world around us.
Or....... Maybe you are just paranoid


Or maybe you have the wrong thing about what passion for a cause is?
The leaders of the once free world warned us about this.

They said that every couple of hundred years a revolution is needed to cleanse the bad parts in government out.

They also spoke about revolting against tyrany is being in service of god and that those who wish to trade away their freedom for a little security deserve neither.

Plato also spoke about that those who've seen the light will have an almost impossible time convincing those in darkness that there is a world outside that which the mirrors portray in the cave.

But there's no doubt that the time for stocking up any arms or cans isn't here yet and that there's a chance it won't come under my life time. But some fools seem to think that it never can come again.

The same fools that elected Hitler, the same fools that let Stalin take power, the same fools who didn't revolt in Rome when the emperor took back the crown from the republic.


Now I've had enough of this, enjoy yourselves. All I did was to try and inform you about something. It's completely up to you as Spinewire says to accept the terms or not. If you are dumb enough in my opinion to accept them (especially such terms as those of EA BF2142 - nothing compared to WOW) then ofcourse they have every right in the world to spy on you.

All I'm trying to do is make people realise the dangers so that they can make the most sound choice.

sylverCode
06-05-2008, 18:01
Warden does NOT scan the hard drive, I can tell this from my own experience since it couldn't detect a shit before I ran the hack.

Spinewire
06-05-2008, 18:13
Warden does NOT scan the hard drive, I can tell this from my own experience since it couldn't detect a shit before I ran the hack.
keep up son

Ragnika
06-05-2008, 18:15
It's completely up to you as Spinewire says to accept the terms or not. If you are dumb enough in my opinion to accept them (especially such terms as those of EA BF2142 - nothing compared to WOW) then ofcourse they have every right in the world to spy on you.

This is what the logical, rational arguments are all about.


All I'm trying to do is make people realise the dangers so that they can make the most sound choice.

You could have saved yourself from multiple pages of emotionally induced tangents if you would have just stated this from the get go.

Tharkon Fargor
06-05-2008, 18:18
But what really scared the shit out of me is the anti cheating tool on WoW...
HOW THE FUCK O_o doesn't anyone read the EULA anymore? How can you play that game. - I mean now it's both sucky and a threat to your privacy.

First post of mine, nuff said.

Translation: You're a dumb mother fucker if you pay for a game that spies on you especially when it's (all legal) in the EULA.

Now when I checked up on the WoW site it wasn't as bad as portrayed in cracked.com which is good. But damnit as I've been saying, you people can't ready - you see things infront of you.

I've been saying from the start it's your fault if you let them spy on you.



- Why the fuck do I keep posting?
Can't you guys at least be factual so that I don't need to reply anymore?

Ches
06-05-2008, 18:24
All I'm trying to do is make people realise the dangers so that they can make the most sound choice.

Leave this quote and drop the rest of the rant and im in total agreement. Drop the sky is falling part out and you do have a very valid point.

Eskareon
06-05-2008, 18:49
I object to this and I am zealous in protecting my rights and I am proud of it.

Your "rights" haven't been violated. Either you sign the EULA and agree to its contents, or you don't play the game.

Here's your problem, Tharkon. You beg for "facts," you demand we be "factual," yet you argue without facts. You argue in possibilities, in what-ifs. This is why I label you as arguing without a base, arguing from paranoia.

Here's some facts for you: consumer research has helped produce billions for our economies. Consumer research helps manufacturers and suppliers provide consumers with what they want. Consumer research helps manufacturers improve their products.

The tracking software you're rallying against is consumer research. This is fact. Pure and simple. The tracking software is designed to provide feedback to developers and to other companies for one major purpose: to better provide consumers with what they want.

It is a very good thing.

You're so caught up in your own paranoia that you refuse to see this. You clearly, clearly don't understand how consumer research works and what it accomplishes. This is how you are able to believe that simple tracking software is the equivalent to hacking and stealing. Because you really don't understand what you're talking about.

I know you'll find all of this insulting, and I'm sure you're ready to go off on another tirade about how close-minded people like me are, how I only try to attack your personal character, blah blah. Sorry, but I'm stating the facts. I point out your zeal because it is a hindrance to your education, to your learning. Your over-emotional responses prohibit logical, clear thinking and understanding. I point out your juvenile responses because they lack any merit to this discussion and are better left to your late-night rants with your friends.

If you want to have a real discussion, I'm sure everyone here will welcome it. But if you're going to keep throwing emotional tantrums, going way, way off topic and making poor allusions, you'll not garner any respect. If you're going to keep persisting that your argument is logical when you don't actually have any real evidence except, "it might happen," then you'll still not garner any respect.

Show us contemporary cases of big producers and manufacturers using "spyware" for malicious intent. Show us how including tracking software in a game - and stating it in the EULA - is illegal. Show us how some specific tracking software, like Punkbuster, actually pulls personal information from users' computers. Show us some real evidence, and we'll start listening. But keep flailing your arms, keep shouting at us and demanding that we believe your hunches, and we'll keep reminding you of your age and lack of experience.

Tharkon Fargor
06-05-2008, 19:05
You fail as you have still not understood my point.
And you are not *them*.

You are different to all others who have written something in this thread.
You see, they are the middle...the minds we fight for.

And besides all of this you are the ignorant of us two.
Not in the way that your opinion is ignorant for it is most certainly not.

You are ignorant of my knowledge and understanding of the world we live in.
You are also *ignoring* my posts for they already hold the answers once again to the post above, especially the last part.

We could go in circles for ever if you wish - I wish not.
But despite trying to let go of this discussion I cannot because you with each post accuse me of something new, something you imagine about me. What I do during my nights, with my friends, what sort of person I am without really know jack shit.

Could you just stop, please?

Ches
06-05-2008, 19:15
Your "rights" haven't been violated. Either you sign the EULA and agree to its contents, or you don't play the game.

..../agreed

Traep
06-05-2008, 19:22
This is the most hardcore conspiracy theory thread I've seen on here in a bit. Reminds me a lot of the social security number thread when those people decided to burn their cards. The "principle" of all this is dumb. Seriously, look at the real life risk involved and reevaluate whether it really matters. I know it's tempting to do so but you will almost always be shooting yourself in the foot when you make decisions based purely on "principle".

Surly
06-05-2008, 19:36
Corporations is evil and they want to steal my informations! My rights, MY GAMER RIGHTS, has been violated! Some one read the Gamer Constitution! Thou Shalt Not Be Assessed For Information, Even If Thou Hast Consented! Clearly put, black and white, article one section imaginary number!

Tharkon Fargor
06-05-2008, 19:37
<Sigh> Idiot.

Surly
06-05-2008, 19:43
<Sigh> Idiot.
You seem awfully defensive, I wasn't even addressing you in particular. Then again, maybe you should be defensive. After all, you did make that argument, and you did have it shoved down your throat.

Tharkon Fargor
06-05-2008, 19:45
...lol

xD this is starting to be funny now.

akrippler
06-05-2008, 19:47
...lol

xD this is starting to be funny now.

AND SURLY TAKES HOME THE GOLD!!!!!

THE CROWD GOES WILD!!! AHHHH AHHHH!!

Tharkon Fargor
06-05-2008, 19:50
xD

Eskareon
06-05-2008, 20:11
You are ignorant of my knowledge and understanding of the world we live in.

And that's my fault? It's your responsibility to enlighten me to how much you actually know. I'm sorry, but you can't blame me for not believing every emotional word screamed at me by some 19-year-old kid in Sweden.


You are also *ignoring* my posts for they already hold the answers once again to the post above, especially the last part.

No, they don't hold answers. After I sift through the pounds of paranoia, I find a couple examples of corruption. And I already addressed that point by asking you to look at the millions of positive examples that consumer research has. You still refuse, you still equate consumer research with spying and stealing. And this is because you don't understand what you're talking about.


Could you just stop, please?

Waaah, could you please stop replying to my posts? Waaah, I lack the self-control to stop responding to you. Waaah, if you keep responding, then I'll be forced to reply so that I can always have the last word! Waaah. Waaah.

Tharkon, if you're so sure of your truths, then why don't you just stop responding altogether? I can tell you right now that you will never convince me, you will never change my mind as long as you continue posting as you have been. So, why don't you just go away?

Tharkon Fargor
06-05-2008, 20:12
You again ignored a part of my post - the most important part about you making shit up.
I mean dude you fucking fail for real.

Surly
06-05-2008, 20:15
Look out dude, you just failed FOR REAL this time. He's serious.

Tharkon Fargor
06-05-2008, 20:16
Surly you already won man :D

shnedit
06-05-2008, 20:18
Look out dude, you just failed FOR REAL this time. Dude. He's serious Dude. Man, like radicaly failed Dude.

More like it.


You know, ive read this whole thread more or less, and i still fail to grasp why or what you are arguing over.

Tharkon Fargor
06-05-2008, 20:25
We've been talking about if it's a good thing that companies put spyware/adaware in products that you then have to agree to and that then monitor for example what you write in emails (google) or your surfing habbits (BF2142).

I belive it's wrong that companies do that and that people shouldn't sign up for such EULA:s

He belives it's good that they do that because it helps the companies get free market research and that people shouldn't care to much about it.

Now some people seem to think that the companies are in some big conspiracy, some people seem to think that I belive the companies are doing something illegal but these people on both sides are probably seeing illusions - (though I must admit, I do not fucking trust google anymore).


Oh and from that we went into discussing broader invasions of peoples privacy such as massive phonetapping etc. The things I truly care about while he doesn't think it's a good thing to be passionate about nor even care about it.

Ches
06-05-2008, 20:33
More like it.


You know, ive read this whole thread more or less, and i still fail to grasp why or what you are arguing over.

Ok to recap.... Tharkon Fargor thinks that his privacy is being invaded by big brother and video games are an example of this. We are telling him that the world is not after him and that he can eat the spam instead of guarding it with his shotgun. Now it has turned into Fargor not wanting to not have the last word and is trying to make us shut up. Now that your caught up any other questions? :D

Tharkon Fargor
06-05-2008, 20:34
Ok to recap.... Tharkon Fargor thinks that his privacy is being invaded by big brother and video games are an example of this. We are telling him that the world is not after him and that he can eat the spam instead of guarding it with his shotgun. Now it has turned into Fargor not wanting to not have the last word and is trying to make us shut up. Now that your caught up any other questions? :D

Alright no you're just trolling dude.
I'm not telling you what you think so stop telling me what I think.

And I'm not making you shut up. I'm asking you politely to stop making things up. You keep being critical of me for "seeing things" or what ever that aren't there.

Yet the two contributions you've made are basicly complete guesses about me and have nothing to do with the issue. And some people seem to even have misread what I wrote because they seem to think that anyone who doesn't think as they do has to be crazy.

Wouldn't you get sick and tired of debating with someone who kept making shit up about you in every post?


EDIT: It seems like you are debating with yourself. You have this image of me in the back of your head and you keep talking to yourself (me in your head) instead of reading what I write.

Ches
06-05-2008, 20:40
Oh and from that we went into discussing broader invasions of peoples privacy such as massive phonetapping etc. The things I truly care about while he doesn't think it's a good thing to be passionate about nor even care about it.

Ya know, if they want to hear me talk to my mother about my laundry why the heck do I care? As for you I don’t care if your passionate about things, I think that’s great. I'll give ya a gold star for attempting to tell the world the sky is falling. I can’t judge you I've never walked in your shoes, but I do know a world full of conspiracy is a much more interesting world than the one we do really live in. So why the heck would I want to take that away from you, reality bites!

Tharkon Fargor
06-05-2008, 20:44
Ya know, if they want to hear me talk to my mother about my laundry why the heck do I care?

Ok this is really comical.
Great then we disagree. I do mind if they hear me talk to my mother about my laundry.

Do you have to make shit up about me and who I am to make your point stronger?
Like do you recognize that your point is so weak that you have to make things up or do you actually belive the things you say?

Eskareon
06-05-2008, 20:47
...it helps the companies get free market research

It isn't free.

Ches
06-05-2008, 20:51
Like do you recognize that your point is so weak that you have to make things up or do you actually belive the things you say?

Huh? What am I making up? I don’t care if anybody hears me talking to my mom about my laundry. I’m fine with government wire tapping and video cameras in public places. I also don’t mind all that much if they read my E-mails. If they came to my house Id invite them in for milk and cookies. Before you say I’m making that up and attack me, I do have milk and cookies. If large companies want to hunt my hardrive that I have given them permission to hunt then I hope they can make a game that I enjoy more. Or make my life easier in some way.

Spinewire
06-05-2008, 20:52
who wants to see a vid of me putting my cock in my mouth?

shnedit
06-05-2008, 20:53
who wants to see a vid of me putting my cock in my mouth?

me me me me me, pm me it then we can keep it secret.

Tharkon Fargor
06-05-2008, 20:53
Huh? What am I making up?....

No dude you keep just like Eskaron guessing who I am.

He at least makes qualified guesses.

You just keep trolling that I am probably hiding in some basement with a shotgun and some cans and shit. Now I know you're just bullshiting but the question is why?

Is it because your argument is so weak?

Zokten
06-05-2008, 20:53
I like cupcakes.

Ches
06-05-2008, 20:54
me me me me me, pm me it then we can keep it secret.

Pfft no you cant, apparently Mr. Bush has a direct line to your computer that was granted to them by blizzard.

Spinewire
06-05-2008, 20:55
me me me me me, pm me it then we can keep it secret.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=rrLRTVgKIb8

Ches
06-05-2008, 21:03
No dude you keep just like Eskaron guessing who I am.

He at least makes qualified guesses.

You just keep trolling that I am probably hiding in some basement with a shotgun and some cans and shit. Now I know you're just bullshiting but the question is why?

Is it because your argument is so weak?

lol my you are an entertaining one aren’t ya. I have no clue who you are. My attacks are not directed at you they are directed at your ideas. Far as I know we are not in an argument about anything. I've not seen you present any kind of evidence about anything whatsoever that I might be interested in having a debate about. I find it much more fun to poke an extremist and tick them off then to attempt to figure out what and who they are. If you want to argue about privacy rights then I can do that. Otherwise I’m going to keep poking fun at your shotgun and your 3 day supply of food.

Darq
06-06-2008, 00:11
You fail as you have still not understood my point.
And you are not *them*.

You are different to all others who have written something in this thread.
You see, they are the middle...the minds we fight for.

And besides all of this you are the ignorant of us two.
Not in the way that your opinion is ignorant for it is most certainly not.

You are ignorant of my knowledge and understanding of the world we live in.
You are also *ignoring* my posts for they already hold the answers once again to the post above, especially the last part.

We could go in circles for ever if you wish - I wish not.
But despite trying to let go of this discussion I cannot because you with each post accuse me of something new, something you imagine about me. What I do during my nights, with my friends, what sort of person I am without really know jack shit.

Could you just stop, please?

Eskareon just loves being a corporate slave
He's either working in some rip-off industry or too mentally unstable to face reality, so he says things like "the RFID chips aren't bad" or "the government cares for us" or "jesus will save us" or "santa claus really isn't satan claus"
He's a gimp and he loves it. He too insecure and unimaginative so he sticks to laws and fascist behaviour to masquerade his insecurities. The reason why he defends those corporations is because he's scared of them. Of course he would never admit it because if he did his world would crumble. Or perhaps he does to himself but never to anyone else, because face is all he's got.
A typical follower, not a maker. Ingenuity is a foreign word, probably also curses "those damned philosophers" and "those damned hippies". Stuck in the past and all he cares about are material goods as he suppresses his insignificance with them.
Your typical build a house, get a girl and obey the authorities type, but my house is bigger, my girl more beautiful and my authorities are the greatest.
Pathetic and I'm actually sorry I've wasted so much time on him writing this post here.

Eskareon
06-06-2008, 00:32
Eskareon just loves being a corporate slave

Nah, I'm just not a tool.