Update (kinda) Post feedback here!

[sawyerj66]

While on his deathbed, Tasos clears up some misconceptions.

http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=55937

[AtanasRikard]

He just pwned some faces there:ninja:

[Stage01]

A video in the next few weeks. Cool... I guess.

[KalTheo]

No more Warcry?

Nothing new really.

[Centinel]

Haha, he seemed legitimately pissed to have to write something at all. Can't say I blame him though, I've had my fair share of "urgent health problems."

[KCC989]

No caravans? No pirates? Limitless universalbanks. I really liked those features and this makes me disapointed. A video sounds good though.

[Forsaken]

While on his deathbed, Tasos clears up some misconceptions.

http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=55937


Even after editing your original statement, what you are stating about Tasos is still very misleading.

Other than that, at least they gave us a update of sorts...

[MurielX]

was hoping for an update but obviously due to medical reasons he couldn't...
By the tone that hes writing he sounds like hes sick of the bitching that goes on in these forums

[Jonkar]

Really, that's quite a freaking good update tbh.

Confirmation of a publisher, video coming in the next few weeks and we'll be getting to see a bunch of interviews soon!

[Suitepee]

Yay for progress!

[MurielX]

No caravans? No pirates? Limitless universalbanks. I really liked those features and this makes me disapointed. A video sounds good though.

show me where he says that

[Jargo]

Ugg, I hope he gets better soon. Now that the contract has expired with Warcry they’ll hopeful go through someone better. It’s also good to hear the commitment about the 2008 release date. We’ll just have to be patient for a little bit longer.

[KCC989]

He makes a good point that the community is just saying stuff is in teh game without real confermation. I don't think they ever confirmed caravans or pirating. (pirating is know useless because of universal banks)

[WNxRichTBiscuit]

i think its a good update as for what an update is... but whats in it seems not so good, but i have confidence in them so im not worried :p

[keeperofstars]

No caravans? No pirates? Limitless universalbanks. I really liked those features and this makes me disapointed. A video sounds good though.

He said no of that, he just said there is no magical Caravan option, if you still want to load up 20 pack horses, and head out across the country side you can, but don't think there is some special mechanic that is "caravan".

He also said that they were still balancing universal banks.

And I agree with him on the npc discussions they are so retarted its kinda funny.

Tasos thanks for slapping some of the newbies around. Now we just need Brannoc to show up for a brief bit and smack a few more people around and it will be a productive week of forumfall.

Melek aka tasos as spoken and smited you all.

[Lethn]

Someone read this out again because I'm going to be going martial arts training in an hour in a sleep induced state... Really stupid idea and I hope we're not sparring but....

"We will be giving out a few interviews to various mainstream media and we will try to keep some specialized updates for the core Darkfall community. We’re looking at releasing a comprehensive video sometime in the next few weeks."

Holy fuck!... Get well soon Tasos!

[dirtknap]

thanks for the update Tasos, hope you get back on your feet ASAP.

very excited about prospect of video & other stuff.

thanks for the clarifications too, they do help.

regarding universal banks though - the EVE players amongst us would say that not having UBs is not tedious at all, because the trade economy thrives to the point that it's just as convenient for the players.

my main concern about UBs is how much they trivialise the game economy & logistics meta-game.

[Jonkar]

He makes a good point that the community is just saying stuff is in teh game without real confermation. I don't think they ever confirmed caravans or pirating. (pirating is know useless because of universal banks)

Pirates has never ever been about game mechanics. Pirates are simply players naming themselves so. You can still have pirates.

[KCC989]

I never said that public beta would be two weeks. I said several weeks. Public beta will be as long as it needs to be. We hope and we’re working hard so that it won’t need to be very long. The clan beta will likely be a stage of public beta. The announcement of launch within the year is an official company commitment and it’s not a guestimate. We’re making strides with publishing in the direction where we maintain full creative control on the game.

Notice how he said the announcement of launch within the year, not acctual launch.

[Forsaken]

No caravans? No pirates? Limitless universalbanks. Wow this is really a joke.

Yup.

Just another carbon copy joke of a game, he even goes on to say on a personal level the idea of caravans doesn't even sound that fun (wtf?)

To be honest, it sounds like they are working with a very limited gameplay engine and can't deliver on a lot of wanted features.

I mean there is already no items on the ground + universal banks, I don't see much of a point in investing one's self into a clan / guild when a player can just stock his or her own bank with a few sets of gear and have fun at their own pace instead of raiding / pvping with a guild.

What's the point of conquest? There doesn't seem to be enough player accountability or economic hardship drawback to losing a war, just come back later after re-equipping from your bank and take a city back.

What's the point of having or using a ship? Is there REALLY going to be a noticeable advantage to sailing to a resource rich location? Will crafting even matter now that a crafter can craft some goods, store them in their bank and travel across Agon and sell them elsewhere? Will there even be a point to travel in the first place due to limited profit?

[Unahim]

No caravans? No pirates? Limitless universalbanks. I really liked those features and this makes me disapointed. A video sounds good though.

You're stupid. He says none of those things.
He says whoever wants to make a caravan, can do so using mounts and such, but you won't be able to drive a cart around.
He said players can also choose to run back and forth again and again and again and again and again to transport things from their local bank, to an universal bank, then travel to a distant city, take the stuff out of the UB bank and into the local bank there.

So -nothing- has changed. Who the hell will run 100 times if 1 time can do it? The risk is well worth it considering the time I save.

Tasos seemed a bit pissed that we petitioned the numbers and udnerscores away. His bitter "we'll put them back in when you aks for them because you run out of options" is stupid though.
In other games, we didn't run out of names either, and here we can make unique combinations with a first AND last name, making our possibilities endless even without the numbers and underscores.

[gold]

... haha.:D


sounds to me like tasos, is just fed up.. HAHAH Like honestly. im playing AOC right now, and i still cant wait for DF, but ya.. the way he sounded in that email, is completely unprofessional, i understand he trys to make it very under the table insults. But for ppl like myself, who have been following this game for 7 years now, rounding 8, i think its a bit of a insult the way he talks to the community.


Either or it doesnt matter, ill wait and wait and wait, but sorta think tasos, needs to hire a PR guy before he insults, and talks down to the community. Clearly, people on this forum are just talking for the point of talking, and making suggestions or even just wishing about things in a game they'd like to see. Just becuase Tasos, and the rest of the DEVS dont post or reply to ppls questions, others answer for them, and since no one has a REAL clue as to whats going on. its just a buncha spam.


and with Tasos, writing updates like that. HAHA im surprised he isnt getting in trouble for the way he talks to the community.

anyways..ill wait. i really dont care about the wait or even if we get updates, but the way Tasos acted/responded in that update was just completely unprofesssional, weither your annoyed or not by what people post on here, you dont need to try and belittle, or just act like your FEED up.


if your FEED up with dealing with the community, GET A REAL PR. I dont even post on this board anymore, i read and wait. but that update.. just the way he worded it. was completely uncalled for.






a.

[Unahim]

Notice how he said the announcement of launch within the year, not acctual launch.

Another silly statement. He said the announcement they made, being "the game will launch this year", is official. Not that they'll officially announce the game in 2008.

Seriously, this community is it's worst enemy.

[Nackl of Gilmed]

So someone pk'ed Tasos? Get any phat lootz?

[Suitepee]

Seriously, this community is it's worst enemy.

At times,yes.

[Razli]

Player Freedom, Don't need special mechanics to tell us so. Thats nice to see. Pretty Good. Fairly Excitied actually. Things look like they are coming together, Hope fully anyway. Gave good clarification, which is really all that we need, althoguh I guess now them clarifications will spark more discussions about Banks and shit.

Is Tasos is not up to full health, I wish him luck. Going to need it to get this out by the end of this year.

[Rokolith]

After reading this update I have finally decided that waiting for this game is stupid, because its never going to come out. Good day.

[Jonkar]

So -nothing- has changed. Who the hell will run 100 times if 1 time can do it? The risk is well worth it considering the time I save.


Which is what will kill local economies and kill the potential of the Darkfall economy.

Anyway, not going to bother anymore. It´s going to be this way, all we can do is swallow it. There´s no alternative, so they can do what they want anyway.

Even if they added levels and classes we´d all still play it.

[Unahim]

He makes a good point that the community is just saying stuff is in teh game without real confermation. I don't think they ever confirmed caravans or pirating. (pirating is know useless because of universal banks)

Have fun running back and forth 1000 times if you're not going to be using ships to transport your goods.

[KCC989]

You're stupid. He says none of those things.
He says whoever wants to make a caravan, can do so using mounts and such, but you won't be able to drive a cart around.
He said players can also choose to run back and forth again and again and again and again and again to transport things from their local bank, to an universal bank, then travel to a distant city, take the stuff out of the UB bank and into the local bank there.

So -nothing- has changed. Who the hell will run 100 times if 1 time can do it? The risk is well worth it considering the time I save.

Tasos seemed a bit pissed that we petitioned the numbers and udnerscores away. His bitter "we'll put them back in when you aks for them because you run out of options" is stupid though.
In other games, we didn't run out of names either, and here we can make unique combinations with a first AND last name, making our possibilities endless even without the numbers and underscores.

I am stupid? By having universal banks, you completely eliminate the need for caravans. Why carry all of your goods with you if you can store them in a vault. He doesn't directly say they are not in but there is no point in doing them if you can store them in the cavarns of time accessible of from any point in the world with tons of space. Can you point out where he mentions local banks?

[Centinel]

... haha.:D


sounds to me like tasos, is just fed up.. HAHAH Like honestly. im playing AOC right now, and i still cant wait for DF, but ya.. the way he sounded in that email, is completely unprofessional, i understand he trys to make it very under the table insults. But for ppl like myself, who have been following this game for 7 years now, rounding 8, i think its a bit of a insult the way he talks to the community.


Either or it doesnt matter, ill wait and wait and wait, but sorta think tasos, needs to hire a PR guy before he insults, and talks down to the community. Clearly, people on this forum are just talking for the point of talking, and making suggestions or even just wishing about things in a game they'd like to see. Just becuase Tasos, and the rest of the DEVS dont post or reply to ppls questions, others answer for them, and since no one has a REAL clue as to whats going on. its just a buncha spam.


and with Tasos, writing updates like that. HAHA im surprised he isnt getting in trouble for the way he talks to the community.

anyways..ill wait. i really dont care about the wait or even if we get updates, but the way Tasos acted/responded in that update was just completely unprofesssional, weither your annoyed or not by what people post on here, you dont need to try and belittle, or just act like your FEED up.


if your FEED up with dealing with the community, GET A REAL PR. I dont even post on this board anymore, i read and wait. but that update.. just the way he worded it. was completely uncalled for.






a.

I agree, but Tasos was in a lose-lose situation. Post after a week in the hospital = angry, bitter, unprofessional tone. Don't post after a week in the hospital = forum uproar.

[Unahim]

Yup.

Just another carbon copy joke of a game, he even goes on to say on a personal level the idea of caravans doesn't even sound that fun (wtf?)

To be honest, it sounds like they are working with a very limited gameplay engine and can't deliver on a lot of wanted features.

I mean there is already no items on the ground + universal banks, I don't see much of a point in investing one's self into a clan / guild when a player can just stock his or her own bank with a few sets of gear and have fun at their own pace instead of raiding / pvping with a guild.

What's the point of conquest? There doesn't seem to be enough player accountability or economic hardship drawback to losing a war, just come back later after re-equipping from your bank and take a city back.

What's the point of having or using a ship? Is there REALLY going to be a noticeable advantage to sailing to a resource rich location? Will crafting even matter now that a crafter can craft some goods, store them in their bank and travel across Agon and sell them elsewhere? Will there even be a point to travel in the first place due to limited profit?

He means hard coded caravans that you have no freedom in how they are put together and what they are is no fun. He then goes on to describe how a player could make his own caravan within the freedom that is DF.

Troll much?

[sawyerj66]

Even after editing your original statement, what you are stating about Tasos is still very misleading.

Other than that, at least they gave us a update of sorts...
Huh? It's just a joke, chill out. "Tasos is dying" seemed a little too tasteless, so I changed it to "While on his deathbed, Tasos clears up some misconceptions." Obviously he's not dying - he's okay enough to get back to work, so I'm sure the guy is fine. Don't be so butthurt. I'm sure he can take a joke.

Regardless, while this wasn't BETA DATE, he at least pounds some much needed sense into the community. I spend 99.9% of my forum time in Off-Topic. GD has turned into silly recommendation after silly recommendation based off assumptions and warped understanding of the declared features. It's almost painful to read.

[Jargo]

After reading this update I have finally decided that waiting for this game is stupid, because its never going to come out. Good day.

So have you deleted your forum account yet? See you in game!

[Unahim]

Which is what will kill local economies and kill the potential of the Darkfall economy.

Anyway, not going to bother anymore. It´s going to be this way, all we can do is swallow it. There´s no alternative, so they can do what they want anyway.

Even if they added levels and classes we´d all still play it.

I thought you to be more intelligent than that.
The one time is a caravan, the 100 times is using an UB with limited space, as it has always been.

[St3n]

Vapower!!1!1!! @@@@ ZOMG HHAHA LAME.. Kidding..
Be honest, universal banks is for carebears... caravans? make random its fine..
Video - hope so..
Overall -- than ++ for it but still have a hope..

[Razli]

Huh? It's just a joke, chill out. "Tasos is dying" seemed a little too tasteless, so I changed it to "While on his deathbed, Tasos clears up some misconceptions." Obviously he's not dying - he's okay enough to get back to work, so I'm sure the guy is fine. Don't be so butthurt. I'm sure he can take a joke.

Regardless, while this wasn't BETA DATE, he at least pounds some much needed sense into the community. I spend 99.9% of my forum time in Off-Topic. GD has turned into silly recommendation after silly recommendation based off assumptions and warped understanding of the declared features. It's almost painful to read.

I agree with your last bit.

[CyBrEn]

He means hard coded caravans that you have no freedom in how they are put together and what they are is no fun. He then goes on to describe how a player could make his own caravan within the freedom that is DF.

Troll much?

What the hell else would a caravan be? People weren't assuming there's some button that you have to press before you start bringing goods somewhere, they were just using 'caravan' as the term to refer to the transportation of resources. What confuses me is when he says "Universal banks are in because they're more fun", "caravans were never a feature" and "you can make a caravan yourself if you want to".


Why would I walk somewhere carrying my valuables if i don't have to? Just have X number of people put the shit in their bank boxes and go there stark naked. Obviously we don't know the details but if that's not possible, and you actually have to take things places then guess what? Caravans are in.


Also- I noticed Tasos has a the tendency to outright contradict Claus. Where did we get that "undead army" idea?

From Claus, in 2002.

[Unahim]

I am stupid? By having universal banks, you completely eliminate the need for caravans. Why carry all of your goods with you if you can store them in a vault. He doesn't directly say they are not in but there is no point in doing them if you can store them in the cavarns of time accessible of from any point in the world with tons of space. Can you point out where he mentions local banks?

Stupid and uninformed. UB aren't limitless. They have a very limited space. He says himself in that very update you'd have to run back and forth a lot to transport all your goods between two cities.
Meanwhile, you'd need a place to store your goods that aren't in the UB.
That's how I know local banks are still in.
Yes, -still- in, he didn't need to say they were in because they have always been in.

You don't ask him to reconfirm full loot every update too, don't you?

[Silt]

... haha.:D


sounds to me like tasos, is just fed up.. HAHAH Like honestly. im playing AOC right now, and i still cant wait for DF, but ya.. the way he sounded in that email, is completely unprofessional, i understand he trys to make it very under the table insults. But for ppl like myself, who have been following this game for 7 years now, rounding 8, i think its a bit of a insult the way he talks to the community.


Either or it doesnt matter, ill wait and wait and wait, but sorta think tasos, needs to hire a PR guy before he insults, and talks down to the community. Clearly, people on this forum are just talking for the point of talking, and making suggestions or even just wishing about things in a game they'd like to see. Just becuase Tasos, and the rest of the DEVS dont post or reply to ppls questions, others answer for them, and since no one has a REAL clue as to whats going on. its just a buncha spam.


and with Tasos, writing updates like that. HAHA im surprised he isnt getting in trouble for the way he talks to the community.

anyways..ill wait. i really dont care about the wait or even if we get updates, but the way Tasos acted/responded in that update was just completely unprofesssional, weither your annoyed or not by what people post on here, you dont need to try and belittle, or just act like your FEED up.


if your FEED up with dealing with the community, GET A REAL PR. I dont even post on this board anymore, i read and wait. but that update.. just the way he worded it. was completely uncalled for.






a.


Like many people I have waited 3+ years now for this game, but honestly if you think its 'insulting' how Tasos talked in that update think about it like this. It should have come much sooner considering some of the idiots that have posted on here, past,present and future. I believe they had a PR guy at one point, maybe that was just talk? As for the 'update' itself I've noticed there has been more fluent and open talk about beta, wether it happens this year or not that is heartening to know.. no game to play at the moment sucks ass

[Nackl of Gilmed]

I disagree with anyone who thinks that Tasos for some reason owes us any amount of good manners. Also happy to hear how dedicated they are to launch this year.

[Lethn]

To be honest I don't blame Tasos for being pissed off and for fucks sake he's a human being, he isn't just some faceless idiot like SOE posting an announcement and then going "lol fuck you" if you don't like it. Your forgetting that the Devs are making a game that they want to play as well, some of the comments I've seen just on this thread have been downright stupid line twisting and faked quotes going on about that Tasos hasn't said, seriously, give it up.

Can't you people fucking understand human emotion? If it was me that had to deal with you lot right now I would've just sent a killer virus to each person who didn't make a decent comment that had an ounce of truth in it, this is amazingly the first time I have ever actually seen a player base act worse than a Games Company.

[Jonkar]

I thought you to be more intelligent than that.
The one time is a caravan, the 100 times is using an UB with limited space, as it has always been.

Ah my bad, miscommunication. I switched it around for some reason.

Either way, I'm done discussing UB's and shit. There's no point arguing anymore. Wether it fucks over the economy in the end or not, there's no alternative to Darkfall anyway.

[Forsaken]

He means hard coded caravans that you have no freedom in how they are put together and what they are is no fun. He then goes on to describe how a player could make his own caravan within the freedom that is DF.

Troll much?

You only touch base on the feature of caravans, nothing else?

You've already covered the caravan issue three times in this thread, he is saying the players have to CREATE a caravan feature for themselves.

You could try to cover my other points I conveyed to the public.

As long as I have the raw materials and resources and can stash them in my nifty little bank, I can travel anywhere, that has the base tools I need to craft my wares, in absolute safety.

While you may try and use the argument of "well enjoy your 100 trips" why would I need to travel much unless I know my wares are needed somewhere and the raw materials are safely stashed in my bank where I can grab what I need to fufill a order?

Let's be realistic, with the direction Darkfall is taking (forming/shaping) will there ever even be a realistic need to craft multiple sets of gear, ever? When players will most likely have multiple sets of gear already stashed in their UB's because of clan crafters?

I see raw materials, resources, etc being as important as any other MMO out there, a near 1:1 ratio when compared to gold, practically worthless, with the way Darkfall currently appears to be, I don't see much economic demand for more than 10-20 good crafters in a geographic region, especially with a skill tree system that supposedly allows you to raise and drop skills at a rapid pace without destroying your characters template or ability to do other things, such as combat.

[Kheiron]

Which is what will kill local economies and kill the potential of the Darkfall economy.

Anyway, not going to bother anymore. It´s going to be this way, all we can do is swallow it. There´s no alternative, so they can do what they want anyway.

Even if they added levels and classes we´d all still play it.

Speak for yourself

[Unahim]

What the hell else would a caravan be? People weren't assuming there's some button that you have to press before you start bringing goods somewhere, they were just using 'caravan' as the term to refer to the transportation of resources. What confuses me is when he says "Universal banks are in because they're more fun", "caravans were never a feature" and "you can make a caravan yourself if you want to".


Why would I walk somewhere carrying my valuables if i don't have to? Just have X number of people put the shit in their bank boxes and go there stark naked. Obviously we don't know the details but if that's not possible, and you actually have to take things places then guess what? Caravans are in.


Also- I noticed Tasos has a the tendency to outright contradict Claus. Where did we get that "undead army" idea?

From Claus, in 2002.

Yeah, I never thought it would be a "click on caravan" feature either and had asumed it was like Tasos said it is right now.
So yes, caravans are in, but apparently a lot of retards swarming around today.

Notice that Tasos doesn't say you can't make that undead army, he just says you'd be using resources on NPCs you could also use on players.

[St3n]

Close the forum lets go home..

[Lethn]

I propose we ban any idiot that misquotes or outright lies about what the devs or Aventurine say myself.

[Blixa]

Stupid and uninformed. UB aren't limitless. They have a very limited space. He says himself in that very update you'd have to run back and forth a lot to transport all your goods between two cities.
Meanwhile, you'd need a place to store your goods that aren't in the UB.
That's how I know local banks are still in.
Yes, -still- in, he didn't need to say they were in because they have always been in.

You don't ask him to reconfirm full loot every update too, don't you?

Noone sayed they were limitless, but how do you know they have more limits than the player-bags?
And even if they were. The crap might be transported in caravans, but the rare valueable items would be transported by UBs. And that's what'll destroy Pirates/Bandits.
Pirates were dead already from the last update: Portals in the big cities. Most likely at least one portal for each continent. No ships will be needed = pirates won't be able to do anything on the water.

[St3n]

I propose we ban any idiot that misquotes or outright lies about what the devs or Aventurine say myself.


ZOMG ARE U MAD? No trolls - no DF community...

[SpartanRedeemer]

Wow, today is a good day to make the community look like a bunch of ignorant dumbasses I guess...

OMG!1!! UB gonna kill Darkfall pirates and caravans gone!

If any on you idiots even bothered to read the update, you would clearly see that trade transportation is still in.

Oh, and thanks again for just reinforcing the Dev's disgust in our aparent idiocracy.

[Scully]

Don't like the stuff I've been hearing recently. Sounds like all the PvP will either be about open world pvp or sieges. Nothing special. Several other games have that...

[Unahim]

You only touch base on the feature of caravans, nothing else?

You've already covered the caravan issue three times in this thread, he is saying the players have to CREATE a caravan feature for themselves.

You could try to cover my other points I conveyed to the public.

As long as I have the raw materials and resources and can stash them in my nifty little bank, I can travel anywhere, that has the base tools I need to craft my wares, in absolute safety.

While you may try and use the argument of "well enjoy your 100 trips" why would I need to travel much unless I know my wares are needed somewhere and the raw materials are safely stashed in my bank where I can grab what I need to fufill a order?

Let's be realistic, with the direction Darkfall is taking (forming/shaping) will there ever even be a realistic need to craft multiple sets of gear, ever? When players will most likely have multiple sets of gear already stashed in their UB's because of clan crafters?

I see raw materials, resources, etc being as important as any other MMO out there, a near 1:1 ratio when compared to gold, practically worthless, with the way Darkfall currently appears to be, I don't see much economic demand for more than 10-20 good crafters in a geographic region, especially with a skill tree system that supposedly allows you to raise and drop skills at a rapid pace without destroying your characters template or ability to do other things, such as combat.

Iron ore takes up more place than the finished products, since they need to be refined and such.
Hence why it doesn't matter if you store enough iron ore for 3-4 suits of armour, or 4 suits of armour in your bank. The profit will still be slim.

And you might have noticed there's a lot of trolls and only 1 me in this thread.
What I'm doing is damage control here, pure and simple. If I let any of this completely retarded, false impressions leak out it'll be me who's stuck with confused newbies for months to come, not you, and I'm frankly not willing to let 3-4 unthinking doomsayers give me more work for months to come.

Hence why I can't tackle everything you say, even though I do but you just try it with a different approach which my previous statement already covered too.
Limited space is as limiting for raw as finished products, and it takes more raw material to make a finished product than there are materials in the finished product, if you need it to be restated for you.

[The Cougar]

Poor Tasos, he sounded pretty stressed.

I disagree with the statement regarding the usernames, though. We wont run out of options with both a first and a last name as long as we get ' and - symbols as replacements for _ and numbers.

For the rest, I'll wait until the game comes before trying to make up my opinion.

[St3n]

Fun is NOT in game.

[Zwarp]

I liked it.

[Forsaken]

Don't like the stuff I've been hearing recently. Sounds like all the PvP will either be about open world pvp or sieges. Nothing special. Several other games have that...

Starting to sound less and less like a sandbox pvp environment and more like a forced RvR/ClanVsClan/GuildVsGuild environment.

I guess the glory days of UO is all I will ever have to hold onto, maybe i'm just too old now, I should just find myself a wife and start a family and give up on the idea of a sandbox pvp mmo ever being released again in my lifetime.

[Don JoHnson]

People really should stop asking for the most hardcore stuff ever created in any game. The success of this game is directly linked to the player playing it. The more you limit the number of possible players the less likely it will be a success and the less likely you are going to play it for long!

Everytime you ask for a implementation or a elimination you should ask yourself "am i able to play it with/without this feature?" If the answer is yes, stop bitching, this feature may get some more players to play this game.
If the answer is no, and the feature is sure to come, delete your account and never come back!


All this bitching about universal banks is really annoying. Whats the problem if your UB can hold 3 sets of armor and some reagents? What if it cant hold any siege weapons? What if it cant hold horses(the items of it)?
Dont you think the developers are smart enough to limit em the way to ensure they wont be exploited?
If your keep is attacked and you successfuly defend it but lose much defense weapons, or need new resources to repair the damge and cant do it with universal banks because they cant hold it?

Yeah, thats called a compromise.

If you have problems with a feature, go talk about it but dont bitch about it. The devs arent some stupid morons who implement something because its pink!

[Razli]

Wow, today is a good day to make the community look like a bunch of ignorant dumbasses I guess...

OMG!1!! UB gonna kill Darkfall pirates and caravans gone!

If any on you idiots even bothered to read the update, you would clearly see that trade transportation is still in.

Oh, and thanks again for just reinforcing the Dev's disgust in our aparent idiocracy.

I agree.

[Metal Wolf]

I'm glad we can start to separate Forumfall features From real DarkFall features now. Its been complete guesswork as to if some features are in or not.

[St3n]

Starting to sound less and less like a sandbox pvp environment and more like a forced RvR/ClanVsClan/GuildVsGuild environment.

I guess the glory days of UO is all I will ever have to hold onto, maybe i'm just too old now, I should just find myself a wife and start a family and give up on the idea of a sandbox pvp mmo ever being released again in my lifetime.

*crying*

[Utei]

Ah, I liked this "update" !
I like universal banks, because I can't really see the fun with so called "caravans".
And I totaly agree with the fact that this community is on its brink of destruction. All these people who takes things for granted, misjudge journals and updates, and other things being said in the forums.. Please..
Tasos pwned you, go cry.

[Shadowoak]

If they want UBs in, isn't there a way to restrict them, like having them connected with only one-two other banks, that are set on the establishment of the bank building in the guild city?

[Unahim]

Noone sayed they were limitless, but how do you know they have more limits than the player-bags?
And even if they were. The crap might be transported in caravans, but the rare valueable items would be transported by UBs. And that's what'll destroy Pirates/Bandits.
Pirates were dead already from the last update: Portals in the big cities. Most likely at least one portal for each continent. No ships will be needed = pirates won't be able to do anything on the water.

Keep your cool, Unahim, keep your cool... these people can't help themselves either, ok...

1) DF does not have any "uber valuable items", not eevn the best gear will be valuable enough to generate big profits in those small amounts UB can transport them.
2) UBs will be balanced during beta, so even if they are too big now, we'll have them changed, just like howw e got the numbers and underscore out!
3) DF DOES NOT fucking have portals in city! He says they WEREN't in cities but in wilderness locations, far away from everything, at the end of dangerous dungeons designed as FPS levels! They'll be even more dangerous than any other form of travel, but indeed faster and useful for the lone wolf without much to lose.

I hope your reply doesn't contain so much lies and disinformation

[St3n]

I'm glad we can start to separate Forumfall features From real DarkFall features now. Its been complete guesswork as to if some features are in or not.

Ok then real known DF features are:
UB, Open PvP, trolls, mounts. Did i miss smething?

[Jonkar]

Noone sayed they were limitless, but how do you know they have more limits than the player-bags?
And even if they were. The crap might be transported in caravans, but the rare valueable items would be transported by UBs. And that's what'll destroy Pirates/Bandits.
Pirates were dead already from the last update: Portals in the big cities. Most likely at least one portal for each continent. No ships will be needed = pirates won't be able to do anything on the water.

You're from a pirate clan and you think Pirates will be dead? No, not really.

Sure, the UB stuff might take away a big aspect of your clan but there will still be ships. You can still sail around the world, harass random boats, take their loot and roleplay pirates (Optional).

That being said, the portals don't like to the other big cities, they link to a shared dungeon of sorts. So that wouldn't really be the way to transport goods from city to city.

[Yamamoto]

The trolls are out in full force today. Please do not feed them.

[Unahim]

Starting to sound less and less like a sandbox pvp environment and more like a forced RvR/ClanVsClan/GuildVsGuild environment.

I guess the glory days of UO is all I will ever have to hold onto, maybe i'm just too old now, I should just find myself a wife and start a family and give up on the idea of a sandbox pvp mmo ever being released again in my lifetime.

Nothing was changed by this journal, everything is still the same. How did you become so influenceable by trolls?

[Jonkar]

Keep your cool, Unahim, keep your cool... these people can't help themselves either, ok...

1) DF does not have any "uber valuable items", not eevn the best gear will be valuable enough to generate big profits in those small amounts UB can transport them.
2) UBs will be balanced during beta, so even if they are too big now, we'll have them changed, just like howw e got the numbers and underscore out!
3) DF DOES NOT fucking have portals in city! He says they WEREN't in cities but in wilderness locations, far away from everything, at the end of dangerous dungeons designed as FPS levels! They'll be even more dangerous than any other form of travel, but indeed faster and useful for the lone wolf without much to lose.

I hope your reply doesn't contain so much lies and disinformation

You need reinforcements, fast. :p

[ignorance]

Get well soon Tasos.

[Unahim]

People really should stop asking for the most hardcore stuff ever created in any game. The success of this game is directly linked to the player playing it. The more you limit the number of possible players the less likely it will be a success and the less likely you are going to play it for long!

Everytime you ask for a implementation or a elimination you should ask yourself "am i able to play it with/without this feature?" If the answer is yes, stop bitching, this feature may get some more players to play this game.
If the answer is no, and the feature is sure to come, delete your account and never come back!


All this bitching about universal banks is really annoying. Whats the problem if your UB can hold 3 sets of armor and some reagents? What if it cant hold any siege weapons? What if it cant hold horses(the items of it)?
Dont you think the developers are smart enough to limit em the way to ensure they wont be exploited?
If your keep is attacked and you successfuly defend it but lose much defense weapons, or need new resources to repair the damge and cant do it with universal banks because they cant hold it?

Yeah, thats called a compromise.

If you have problems with a feature, go talk about it but dont bitch about it. The devs arent some stupid morons who implement something because its pink!

You've just gained +100 repp with Unahim, thank you for the voice of reason in here!

[Zwarp]

You need reinforcements, fast. :p
Well, do help him, i'll cover your back !

[Beeblebrox]

Oh my, creating Darkfall and dealing with our stupid community is even making devs sick. I hope the team don't start falling like flies.

Also: see what you did your stupid morons???? Now not only tasos, but also unahim is going berserk! Damn you bastards! I'm going to cry myself to sleep now...

ps: the game is fine, stop bitchin before tasos decides to add unicorns and fairies just to punish us.

[Unahim]

If they want UBs in, isn't there a way to restrict them, like having them connected with only one-two other banks, that are set on the establishment of the bank building in the guild city?

They already did this. Clan banks link to clan banks, racial banks to racial banks. Of the same race of course.

[Nackl of Gilmed]

I would be ok with unicorns.

[Jonkar]

Well, do help him, i'll cover your back !

I don't offer my services for free.

Srsly, I have to go in 10 mins.

[Nafelos]

Could someone enlighten me as to what this whole NPC controversy was about?

[Jonkar]

They already did this. Clan banks link to clan banks, racial banks to racial banks. Of the same race of course.

Not too annoy you even further, but I must have totally missed that. Is that just a guess or has that been confirmed (I'll look it up myself.)?

[Suitepee]

You're sure doing a lot of defending here Unahim. :D

[Shadowoak]

Not too annoy you even further, but I must have totally missed that. Is that just a guess or has that been confirmed (I'll look it up myself.)?

I was wondering just the same. That, and I must have really misunderstood the concept of universal banks here.

[Leathe]

You're sure doing a lot of defending here Unahim. :D
Agreed. But I'm happy atleast someone is. But Unahim, don't go too berserk here, ok? :>

[Eskareon]

This journal is probably going to lead to even more argument over universal banks as a viable mode of item transport:

The world is huge and the distances to travel are great and there will be a need for transport of large amounts of resources such as those intended for city building.

City building will require prolific amounts of resources, and player-formed "caravans" will be useful for this. However, the community has seemed more interested in the use of universal banks / caravans from an economical standpoint; will crafters and merchants be relying on caravans to distribute their goods, or can they use the universal banks instead? This, I believe, has been the main point of argument for the subject.

That said...

You do have the freedom of forming caravans. You also have the option of universal banks.

I believe Tasos was just making a straight-forward statement here. We can form caravans. We can also use our universal banks. However - and this is a characteristic of more westernized English - the way these two statements are placed together at the begining of the paragraph may lead the reader to see it as an "or" statement:

"You do have the freedom of forming caravans, or you also have the option..."

Seemingly making these two features real substitutes. If you don't want to caravan, you don't have to - the universal bank system will allow you to move the products just as well.


More later. Company meeting to go to.

[Aragoni]

Well, the UB banks will be limited enough that they are convenient to lone wolf travelers, but don't generate near enough profit for merchants.

But there will mostly be lone travelers and not merchants using the roads of Agon. Far from everyone will be merchants and such, right? This will lower the profits for Robbers and thus less will be it. I could be wrong of course.

And he didn't say you could only have 5-10 npcs, he said you could better spend your resources on players, and not on NPCs.

Poor way of trying to avoid the topic. If we really could have armies then why didn't he just say "Armies of NPC's are still in" or something like that?

[Inja]

" we're making strides with publishing in the direction where we maintain full creative control on the game " is a verry important statment . How many of you can think of at least 1 game that was destroyed by some asshole that patched it but never played it ?

[Unahim]

Not too annoy you even further, but I must have totally missed that. Is that just a guess or has that been confirmed (I'll look it up myself.)?

It'll only help my case, so I got them for you.


18. More info on the development on universal banks please.

dev journal 26

I'll give you some insight as far as our decision goes to include them. We decided on universal banks for practical gameplay reasons: This is a full loot game. You'll have to re-equip yourself often and it's convenient. It allows you to explore without having to always go back to where you came from. It promotes socialization between players; you can go to a clan city and use their bank perhaps if they allow you to. We also use universal banks in our game mechanics: they're tied in with city building and conquest but I cannot elaborate on that yet.

So non-clan members, forget it. I wouldn't let you if I was that clan, seeing as it gives me more control over people stopping by my city.

Dev journal 19

When I mentioned universal banks, I didn't think there would be such a reaction. This is probably because I know how they're supposed to work and I didn't think to elaborate, but I also didn't think that a lot of people would assume we're going to pick the worst possible way to implement this.
You know who you are.

Nevertheless, it was an interesting debate and we were glad to hear what you had to say. So to get you up to speed on universal banks: Universal banks are not bottomless. There's a reasonable volume and weight limit to what you can have in there. You can store items which meet these requirements.
So you can't store everything, and you cannot store a lot of that "not everything"

Universal banks aren't found everywhere
Read that line a few times.

You can find them in starter towns, capital cities, clan cities if the clan builds one, and some quest hubs. The locations where they're found also limit their use in a racial, an alignment and a clan membership context. You won't be able to use every one of the few universal banks in the world.
That's the racial limitation there. Seems there's even an alignment limitation too.
For example, it's only theoretically possible for an ork to use a universal bank in the human capital but he'd be cut to shreds by the guards before he even reached it. When we make a decision like having universal banks we try to think it through weighing the pros and the cons and try to achieve a balance between convenience and challenge, always with fun in mind. Following up on this, we will be looking at universal banks during beta testing, listening to what the testers have to say, and making any changes that are necessary.

End of discussion right there.
If you still argue UB banks stop every and all pirating and banditing and caravans, please go die.

This is not aimed at Jonkar, but at some of the more persistent UB trolls here.

[St3n]

You're sure doing a lot of defending here Unahim. :D

I hope Unahim really believes in what he type..Allthough there is nothing to defend or protect.. We were charmed by many stuff, we w8 and hope..There is actually nothing to speak of - IF DF will release Tasos +crew +Unahim will b Gods, but if not - they will b cursed for good, and burned as witches :D

And all those shit-topics about if Universal banks in or not - just waste of time...

[Jonkar]

Thanks Una. Back to the wait and see game.

[tharon]

an urgent health problem that landed me in the hospital for a week
zomg tasos is dieing!

[badula]

unahim i don't know why are you wasting time!^^

they're upset and wont play DFO

their loss not mine!^^

[Zwarp]

unahim i don't know why are you wasting time!^^

they're upset and wont play DFO

their loss not mine!^^

In the end, they will, if it releases :)

[Unahim]

But there will mostly be lone travelers and not merchants using the roads of Agon. Far from everyone will be merchants and such, right? This will lower the profits for Robbers and thus less will be it. I could be wrong of course.



Poor way of trying to avoid the topic. If we really could have armies then why didn't he just say "Armies of NPC's are still in" or something like that?

Lone travelers only carry what they need on their travels and what they have recently looted, regardless of UB or not.

UB might help them to restock faster after death so that bandits can rob them again sooner, though.

And to the second question: the same reason he did not say open PvP and no safe zones is still in.

[AmarSldstill]

*hands Unahim a cookie and a glass of milk*

Wuv you big guy.

*huggles*

[Nackl of Gilmed]

End of discussion right there.
If you still argue UB banks stop every and all pirating and banditing and caravans, please go die.



Unfortunately Unahim, in the choice between 'troll now' and 'troll later', many people did not even wait long enough to notice that there was a second option.

[badula]

In the end, they will, if it releases :)

then it's just making a fuss for nothing wich deserves nothing more than SILENCE :sly:

[Beeblebrox]

Now I can see the possibility of this sequence of events in DF:


http://www.thenoobcomic.com/index.php?pos=253

http://www.thenoobcomic.com/index.php?pos=255

http://www.thenoobcomic.com/index.php?pos=257


Just hope I'm not near it if it does happens.

[Unahim]

*hands Unahim a cookie and a glass of milk*

Wuv you big guy.

*huggles*

*huggles back*

Hehe, thanks for the cookie.
To the people worrying about me going berserk.
I'm pretty calm right now, I was a bit annoyed earlier, but even that's wearing off again.

Seriously guys, I'd personally love it if, and I'm sure most of Forumfall with me, we could shun the following topics for a few months:

UB, Mounts, Ships, ARAC and Tasos in a thong.

Those that are not convinced the devs know what they are doing with those things will never open their ears for other people's arguments until the game comes, and those who have do not feel the need to start talking about it if nobody else does.

It'd be win-win for both sides.
Pwease?

[AtanasRikard]

I am stupid? By having universal banks, you completely eliminate the need for caravans. Why carry all of your goods with you if you can store them in a vault. He doesn't directly say they are not in but there is no point in doing them if you can store them in the cavarns of time accessible of from any point in the world with tons of space. Can you point out where he mentions local banks?

Can you point out where it is mentioned that you can open a bank out in the wilderness and also where the bank has limitless space? And yes, you are stupid:ninja:

[Kyur]

How did he pwn faces? all he did was prove that the company is getting soft.

Another update that told us absolutlely nothing.. at all.

[Nackl of Gilmed]

*huggles back*

Seriously guys, I'd personally love it if, and I'm sure most of Forumfall with me, we could shun the following topics for a few months:

UB, Mounts, Ships, ARAC and Tasos in a thong.

It'd be win-win for both sides.
Pwease?


OMFG, they couldn't last one post. You should just ban AtanasRikard right here, that would send a message. Yeah! Abuse the power!

[Xelos]

Well, I gotta admit Septus makes much more sense when talking about UBs than Tasos. "Universal Banks are industry standard for a reason" - so are instances, zones and turn-based PvP. But it's ok, at least we have an honest statement than caravans were not even planned, and you don't mind if UBs take their role. Might want to update your website.

Official Darkfall website
"You may choose to play a merchant, setting up caravans and shops in different cities, buying high quality hides from Mahirim hunters and selling them for top prices at Human cities."

Tasos in 2006, RPG Vault
"Traders can form caravans or convoys for their mutual protection."

And Tasos in 2008
"As for caravans, firstly, we never confirmed that they were in the game. They were never in the original design; they weren’t announced as a feature, they were just brought up and have been promoted by some community members."

Yes indeed "we" brought them up and promoted them :rolleyes:

[Unahim]

How did he pwn faces? all he did was prove that the company is getting soft.

Point me out where he did anything but vouch against NPCs becoming more important than players and vouch against caravans being hard coded rather than player made.

Or tell me why those two things are "soft"

[Tongue]

The announcement of launch within the year is an official company commitment and it’s not a guestimate.

Not enough to convince my friend Joe-blow cynic, but Im glad they restated it. They need to hype this up more in the interviews and video.

A big bitch slap on caravans. This made me realize they don't play EVE, or don't like to play EVE maybe. But why did he try calling it a "feature"... Obviously "caravans" are player made, its simply a player or players transporting large quantities of items. The only thing or "feature" we need from the devs is a Cart or Wagon (http://img387.imageshack.us/my.php?image=864qb6.jpg) to attach to mounts for increased item storage. Thats it. We don't need Caravan Guild master NPC or a Caravan management page ect....

So we have the "freedom" to make caravans or choose the option of universal banks. Now just going off this why would anyone choose caravans. They are still balancing universal banks, but if they never liked the idea of caravans in the first place, it doesn't look good for those who wanted caravans in the game.

[Unahim]

Well, I gotta admit Septus makes much more sense when talking about UBs than Tasos. "Universal Banks are industry standard for a reason" - so are instances, zones and turn-based PvP. But it's ok, at least we have an honest statement than caravans were not even planned, and you don't mind if UBs take their role. Might want to update your website.

Official Darkfall website
"You may choose to play a merchant, setting up caravans and shops in different cities, buying high quality hides from Mahirim hunters and selling them for top prices at Human cities."

Tasos in 2006, RPG Vault
"Traders can form caravans or convoys for their mutual protection."

And Tasos in 2008
"As for caravans, firstly, we never confirmed that they were in the game. They were never in the original design; they weren’t announced as a feature, they were just brought up and have been promoted by some community members."

Yes indeed "we" brought them up and promoted them :rolleyes:

You may want to start reading everything I've written in this thread. He did not say caravans were out, nor that UB took their place.

He said hardcoded caravans are out, player formed caravans are taking their place and people who want to run back and forth 100 times instead of using 1 caravan can also use UB's.

[Forsaken]

Point me out where he did anything but vouch against NPCs becoming more important than players and vouch against caravans being hard coded rather than player made.

Or tell me why those two things are "soft"

I think he's referring to the fact that Tasos is taking on the UB system with open arms because its WIDELY ACCEPTED by the MMORPG community.

That's essentially what Tasos said, what next? Instances because its widely accepted?

[The Cougar]

People automatically assume a feature will be as bad as the developers can possibly implement it to be as a self-defence mechanism caused by previous let-downs. I guess it's natural to think like that, but hopefully the game will speak for itself once it's released.

[FunWithDrugs]

thanks for the update Tasos, hope you get back on your feet ASAP.

very excited about prospect of video & other stuff.

thanks for the clarifications too, they do help.

regarding universal banks though - the EVE players amongst us would say that not having UBs is not tedious at all, because the trade economy thrives to the point that it's just as convenient for the players.

my main concern about UBs is how much they trivialise the game economy & logistics meta-game.

travel in eve is a matter of clicking one button and going to the bathroom or the store if youre going further. This makes a big difference.

[Kyur]

Point me out where he did anything but vouch against NPCs becoming more important than players and vouch against caravans being hard coded rather than player made.

Or tell me why those two things are "soft"

1 word, universal banks.

Caravans were a huge part of what this game was sappose to be. But hey, like Tasos says, there is a reason carebear games use universal banks right? Is that gonna be the arguement against non-universal? because other games use universal banks and it works? don't other games suck?

Soon we will be seeing no full loot, levels and uber armour. Oh hey, why not instances.. cause people in WoW accept them.

I think you need to get your head out of your asses and clue in to whats going on here.

[Unahim]

1 word, universal banks.

Caravans were a huge part of what this game was sappose to be. But hey, like Tasos says, there is a reason carebear games use universal banks right? Is that gonna be the arguement against non-universal? because other games use universal banks and it works? don't other games suck?

Soon we will be seeing no full loot, levels and uber armour. Oh hey, why not instances.. cause people in WoW accept them.

I think you need to get your head out of your asses and clue in to whats going on here.

Limited space + other limitations. Thanks for not reading the rest of the thread.
It'll be way faster to transport your player made caravan 1 time than go back and forth a hundred times with your UB, transporting goods from your local bank, to an UB bank, traveling to a city, transporting the goods from UB to local, running back to city 1, and so on...






dev journal 26

I'll give you some insight as far as our decision goes to include them. We decided on universal banks for practical gameplay reasons: This is a full loot game. You'll have to re-equip yourself often and it's convenient. It allows you to explore without having to always go back to where you came from. It promotes socialization between players; you can go to a clan city and use their bank perhaps if they allow you to. We also use universal banks in our game mechanics: they're tied in with city building and conquest but I cannot elaborate on that yet.

So non-clan members, forget it. I wouldn't let you if I was that clan, seeing as it gives me more control over people stopping by my city.

Dev journal 19

When I mentioned universal banks, I didn't think there would be such a reaction. This is probably because I know how they're supposed to work and I didn't think to elaborate, but I also didn't think that a lot of people would assume we're going to pick the worst possible way to implement this.
You know who you are.

Nevertheless, it was an interesting debate and we were glad to hear what you had to say. So to get you up to speed on universal banks: Universal banks are not bottomless. There's a reasonable volume and weight limit to what you can have in there. You can store items which meet these requirements.
So you can't store everything, and you cannot store a lot of that "not everything"

Universal banks aren't found everywhere
Read that line a few times.

You can find them in starter towns, capital cities, clan cities if the clan builds one, and some quest hubs. The locations where they're found also limit their use in a racial, an alignment and a clan membership context. You won't be able to use every one of the few universal banks in the world.
That's the racial limitation there. Seems there's even an alignment limitation too.
For example, it's only theoretically possible for an ork to use a universal bank in the human capital but he'd be cut to shreds by the guards before he even reached it. When we make a decision like having universal banks we try to think it through weighing the pros and the cons and try to achieve a balance between convenience and challenge, always with fun in mind. Following up on this, we will be looking at universal banks during beta testing, listening to what the testers have to say, and making any changes that are necessary.

End of discussion right there.
If you still argue UB banks stop every and all pirating and banditing and caravans, please go die.

[fCo_Pancho]

I believe that was the best update in years.

It was so full of win, I think my morning wood may last till the afternoon.

[FunWithDrugs]

The only thing or "feature" we need from the devs is a Cart or Wagon (http://img387.imageshack.us/my.php?image=864qb6.jpg) to attach to mounts for increased item storage. Thats it. We don't need Caravan Guild master NPC or a Caravan management page ect....



QFT on that one. I couldn't see one more model being all that big of a deal either. Another simple fix -without- adding a cart or wagon would possibly be to increase the capacity of an unmanned horse by a lot, and allow a horse to be led, or chained to another horse somehow, or something.

[Wufiavelli]

Just some odd contradiction.
NPC features are kind of on the feature list. But their are differences in details. I think Taso is mostly refuring to player made NPC armies and not NPCs. Because NPCs doing some of the brunt work have always been a feature since early interviews.

Then Caravan thing. He says they are not on the feature list, when they kind of are. But then says because of the nature of the world you will need mounts and ships (caravans basically) to move large amounts of goods.

I really do not think any of these contradictions are huge, and i think a lot of his complaints are specifically related. But i will add the quotes just to start discussion.

Finally, these raised undead armies, armies of dead players, and armies of NPCs etc. we keep reading on the boards: What’s this NPC fascination about? Why not raise a player army instead? Every bot takes up resources players could be using and Darkfall is a massive multiplayer game. Even if it’s all the rage in MMOs lately we want to further the multiplayer real-time aspect with Darkfall rather than go the other direction. There is no progress in having to introduce single player features such as more NPCs to a MMORPG.


What can my NPC hirelings do?
NPC hirelings can follow you around and fight with you, they can carry your loot, they can perform skills and spells to aid you, etc. NPC hirelings can do pretty much everything that player friends can do. In addition, NPC hirelings can be given advanced orders such as patrolling your city, looking for enemies, criminals, and thieves. They can be a vendor in your shop that you have set up, they can mine for minerals in a mine, they can go out into the forest and chop wood for you, or stand on the banks of a river fishing for you all day.

http://www.darkfallonline.com/faq/economy.html

As for caravans, firstly, we never confirmed that they were in the game. They were never in the original design; they weren’t announced as a feature
You may choose to play a merchant, setting up caravans and shops in different
http://www.darkfallonline.com/faq/society.html

The world is huge and the distances to travel are great and there will be a need for transport of large amounts of resources such as those intended for city building.

[Don JoHnson]

1 word, universal banks.

Caravans were a huge part of what this game was sappose to be. But hey, like Tasos says, there is a reason carebear games use universal banks right? Is that gonna be the arguement against non-universal? because other games use universal banks and it works? don't other games suck?

Soon we will be seeing no full loot, levels and uber armour. Oh hey, why not instances.. cause people in WoW accept them.

I think you need to get your head out of your asses and clue in to whats going on here.


I think all of this is too soft, i demand:
- 1000 $ to buy and 500$ every month
- one character per box bought
- forced permadeath
- no banks at all
- skill increase by 1 at max per day
- only playbale during full moon
- max health is 1
- no guards in town, heck no guards anywhere

this game is just to softcore! it has to beharder so it really can get a success!

[Lucius]

I think Unahim just resolved the UB and caravans issue. So, the whining can stop now.

[Nackl of Gilmed]

1 word, universal banks.

Caravans were a huge part of what this game was sappose to be. But hey, like Tasos says, there is a reason carebear games use universal banks right? Is that gonna be the arguement against non-universal? because other games use universal banks and it works? don't other games suck?

Soon we will be seeing no full loot, levels and uber armour. Oh hey, why not instances.. cause people in WoW accept them.

I think you need to get your head out of your asses and clue in to whats going on here.

The last part of your post just drips with humour. Unahim answered every one of your complaints by essentially reposting from a page or two back.

[Lyam Sunchaser]

I think Unahim just resolved the UB and caravans issue. So, the whining can stop now.

Wield Thy Almight BanHammer!

[Unahim]

Just some odd contradiction.
NPC features are kind of on the feature list. But their are differences in details. I think Taso is mostly refuring to player made NPC armies and not NPCs. Because NPCs doing some of the brunt work have always been a feature since early interviews.

Then Caravan thing. He says they are not on the feature list, when they kind of are. But then says because of the nature of the world you will need mounts and ships (caravans basically) to move large amounts of goods.

I really do not think any of these contradictions are huge, and i think a lot of his complaints are specifically related. But i will add the quotes just to start discussion.






http://www.darkfallonline.com/faq/economy.html



http://www.darkfallonline.com/faq/society.html

Tasos said nothing about how many NPCs you can have or what you can make them do.
He only said spending your resources on players instead of NPcs is more useful.

[Unahim]

I think Unahim just resolved the UB and caravans issue. So, the whining can stop now.

They didn't stop whining after the first five times, so why would they now?

Thanks for the support though Lucius! :D

[Helgeran]

I like that even Tasos hates GD.

[elacourse]

I like that fact he sounded angry and pissed off.....he's human after all. When I get pissed i'll drop an F Bomb in a heart beat.

If people took offence to what he said, you all need to grow another layer of skin or goto boot camp.

The game is what the game is. The fact is, even if it only has half the features they have promised at release, it's still going to be better than anything currently out there.

I love the fact if you want something done one way (caravan) then you need to get the people (wow your guild/clan....holy shit there's an original thought) together and form it on your own. Automation kills depth IMO.

[chano]

Personally I think tasos made a point that a lot of people just can't see. Some people on this forum seem to be so ultra-hardcore they forget that over all a game has to be fun. Tasos has said before your going to die a lot in darkfall. That means all of us. People need to think on both sides of the fence.

If i am not mistaken in a previous update they specificly said not all banks will be universal. The world is huge you are still going to have points where you are not close to a universal bank and you are going to have to trek back to one. People really need to think about this. If you are bored out exploring are you really going to have fun if you die and you have to run 2 hours back someplace because you forgot something?

The no universal bank system works in eve because of warp. There isn't going to be teleporting whenever you feel like it in darkfall.

I am fine with no npc caravan. Nobody would use them anyway because they would get robbed constantly. You would have entire guilds that all they did was rob caravans all day every day nothing would ever get through. If you were going to spend the money to get a powerfull enough caravan you probably have a big eough clan to just transport it yourselves. Cool feature on paper kind of but would be stupid in practice.

[Tongue]

Wait ppl actaully thought NPC caravans were in? lawlz

[Beeblebrox]

People should just stop assuming the devs are intending to turn darkfall into another carebear party. Why the hell would they do that? How can you be so sure they're making the wrong decisions, when no one actually knows how the hell this game works? Come on, you guys really think they are trying to make WoW 2 before Blizzard? Just be quiet and wait for the damn game before you start complaining.

[StealYourFace]

you whiny little cunts

[Hycran]

I'll back up Una for a second with a couple of things that havent been touched on in this topic.

A) Robbers will be less able to make money
- From the sounds of it, people apparently thought that pillaging and plundering would be like in the movie "Robin Hood" where everyone is happily fed and merry. In reality, bandits are almost always operating on an empty stomach, low resources, low morale etc. Robin Hood also didnt have monsters around that he could loot for gold and armaments. Anyone who thinks that just because they are bandits they deserve some sort of way to be millionaires is delusional. The real millionaires will be the people transporting raw goods in giant player caravans, not the 3 or 4 vultures hounding them until someone finally puts an arrow through their skull

B) :(:(UB cry cry cry
- Eat a big bag of dicks. The reason its widely accepted in gaming circles is because its a fucking GAME. Its unfortunate that the tiniest group of people is often the loudest when it comes to voicing displeasure about anything, let alone UB's. There isn't even a point in arguing, its in. You lose. Deal with it or fuck off.

C) NPC armies: Tasos' little cryfest of NPC armies was definately not warranted. Even though he is right that resources are always better placed in the hands of players, a 200 PC army plus 5 NPC's each is going to be a fucking collosal army. Not even the game's serves will be able to handle all the shit thats going on. This definately needs to be addressed.

[sawyerj66]

It'll only help my case, so I got them for you.


18. More info on the development on universal banks please.
.
You have full permission to edit my first post and copy/paste this entire reply in there! It'll prevent people from reading post 1 and then immediately jumping in the uninformed anti-UB bandwagon.

[GlacierFreeze]

Limited space + other limitations. Thanks for not reading the rest of the thread.
It'll be way faster to transport your player made caravan 1 time than go back and forth a hundred times with your UB, transporting goods from your local bank, to an UB bank, traveling to a city, transporting the goods from UB to local, running back to city 1, and so on...


A few of us have already tried using this argument, Unahim. Most people are too slow (12 y/o or small brain) to understand it. Thanks for trying to help though.

[Xelos]

Wait ppl actaully thought NPC caravans were in? lawlz

No one did, some people just have reading comprehension problems.

[Jangang]

Regarding universal banks though - the EVE players amongst us would say that not having UBs is not tedious at all, because the trade economy thrives to the point that it's just as convenient for the players.

my main concern about UBs is how much they trivialise the game economy & logistics meta-game.

The only problem with that logic is that to many of us (dare I say most), EVE itself is tedious. If not for that I would have been playing it for years now. Its just to tedious and boring though, even if it does have a pretty nice pvp system.

I disagree with anyone who thinks that Tasos for some reason owes us any amount of good manners. Also happy to hear how dedicated they are to launch this year.

/Agreed

I furthermore didn't take his post as aggressive at all. Its not like he attacked anyone, he just cleared up few misconceptions for those who didn't know.

To be honest I don't blame Tasos for being pissed off and for fucks sake he's a human being, he isn't just some faceless idiot like SOE posting an announcement and then going "lol fuck you" if you don't like it. Your forgetting that the Devs are making a game that they want to play as well, some of the comments I've seen just on this thread have been downright stupid line twisting and faked quotes going on about that Tasos hasn't said, seriously, give it up.

Can't you people fucking understand human emotion? If it was me that had to deal with you lot right now I would've just sent a killer virus to each person who didn't make a decent comment that had an ounce of truth in it, this is amazingly the first time I have ever actually seen a player base act worse than a Games Company.

No kidding, but again I didn't even take his words as angry, just direct. Some people need to chill the fuck out though!

You only touch base on the feature of caravans, nothing else?

You've already covered the caravan issue three times in this thread, he is saying the players have to CREATE a caravan feature for themselves.

You could try to cover my other points I conveyed to the public.

As long as I have the raw materials and resources and can stash them in my nifty little bank, I can travel anywhere, that has the base tools I need to craft my wares, in absolute safety.

While you may try and use the argument of "well enjoy your 100 trips" why would I need to travel much unless I know my wares are needed somewhere and the raw materials are safely stashed in my bank where I can grab what I need to fufill a order?

Let's be realistic, with the direction Darkfall is taking (forming/shaping) will there ever even be a realistic need to craft multiple sets of gear, ever? When players will most likely have multiple sets of gear already stashed in their UB's because of clan crafters?

I see raw materials, resources, etc being as important as any other MMO out there, a near 1:1 ratio when compared to gold, practically worthless, with the way Darkfall currently appears to be, I don't see much economic demand for more than 10-20 good crafters in a geographic region, especially with a skill tree system that supposedly allows you to raise and drop skills at a rapid pace without destroying your characters template or ability to do other things, such as combat.

Yes, lets be realistic... Did you honestly expect a god damned "CARAVAN" button somewhere on the interface? Of course players have to CREATE a caravan themselves. Regardless of the viability of caravans that is pretty frick'n obvious...

Tasos furthermore said that UB's are being balanced still. Which tells you they haven't decided how much they should hold... Which shows their is a limit. His talk of moving things pretty much shows (though I'll admit I could be wrong on this one, I don't think so) that their is storage on the local level. Now whether that is "local banks" as someone suggested, or guild banks, I can't say. But it shows there will be both...

Now, lets for the sake of argument assume you are right in that their will be no point in caravans at all regarding personal property... So what? He clearly stated that tranporting supplies used in city building will need ships, and one can presume that if a ship works so would 50 guys w/ mules...

Now this isn't quite the same as what you all had in mind I'm sure, but I can understand the logic. Its not fun to have to make 100 trips back and forth to bring a few suits of armor, and some weapons, maybe a cache of potions, and food, etc... Especially when you die and haven't done that, and you have no equipment to pull out and get back to battle in. In a siege when you run out of equipment this is a tactical advantage, and after several deaths can still happen... But it would be pretty lame to have to deal w/ that, or make 100 trips as mention before just to have replacement gear for a single death i the wilds outside a city.

Most crafters wouldn't enjoy having to make 200, or 300 trips to bring the ore and other materials needed to created a couple dozen suits of armor... But when they are bringing in materials enough to craft for a clan. Better then ding so many trips you might enlist your clan mates, and wala, you have a caravan. Not hard coded as you seemed to expect, but its the same thing. The important part here is that is something that might be done here and there when players want to for specific reasons, but not something needed for players to function in the game. Which is a good thing if you ask me.


Noone sayed they were limitless, but how do you know they have more limits than the player-bags?
And even if they were. The crap might be transported in caravans, but the rare valueable items would be transported by UBs. And that's what'll destroy Pirates/Bandits.
Pirates were dead already from the last update: Portals in the big cities. Most likely at least one portal for each continent. No ships will be needed = pirates won't be able to do anything on the water.

Misconception #1, that there will be gear so rare and valuable that its a problem for the best stuff to be transported via UBs. Sure it'll happen sometimes, and sometimes it won't... The item in question isn't gonna be so good it gives you a huge advantage after you take it from them anyway, so its a moot point.

Misconception #2, Pirates and Bandits won't have anything to steal... First there is the equipped gear of anyone you encounter. Mounts, Boats, etc... All worth taking... Then their are building supplies which Tasos specifically mentioned... If you need a transport ship to move it, its gonna be a expensive... And a prime target for pirates.

Keep your cool, Unahim, keep your cool... these people can't help themselves either, ok...

1) DF does not have any "uber valuable items", not even the best gear will be valuable enough to generate big profits in those small amounts UB can transport them.
2) UBs will be balanced during beta, so even if they are too big now, we'll have them changed, just like how e got the numbers and underscore out!
3) DF DOES NOT fucking have portals in city! He says they WEREN't in cities but in wilderness locations, far away from everything, at the end of dangerous dungeons designed as FPS levels! They'll be even more dangerous than any other form of travel, but indeed faster and useful for the lone wolf without much to lose.

I hope your reply doesn't contain so much lies and disinformation

Seriously, people need to calm down and take a chill pill or 12...

Whine, Cry, Sob... Its not going to be tedious to reequip after a fight. Its a travesty, Down with FUN!!!!

I'm confident things will be balanced properly. Though the idea of caravans is cool, and it could make for interesting game play, I agree that UB should be in in some fashion, and with a little luck their will be a nice balance between the two. I'd always imagined caravans and transports being used much more often for moving materials anyway, not goods themselves.

Ok then real known DF features are:
UB, Open PvP, trolls, mounts. Did i miss smething?

Idiot.

[Myz]

I feel like, ultimately, whether it be prior to release or after, they will give us caravans. I mean, people will use them if they want, and I can't see them taking a ridiculous amount of time to implement. Just a cart... With a large inventory... Attached to some horses... Why not?

[Unahim]

You have full permission to edit my first post and copy/paste this entire reply in there! It'll prevent people from reading post 1 and then immediately jumping in the uninformed anti-UB bandwagon.

I would, but sadly I don't have the ability to do that on GD.

It's weird but the ability to edit/delete posts is localized on this forum, while the ability to ban is global across all the boards ^^

[Etrurian_Akab]

After reading this update I have finally decided that waiting for this game is stupid, because its never going to come out. Good day.

What was that crap, you troll???
So, two weeks after they annunce it to begin in less than 6 months, you decide that this game is never going to come out????!!!
What are you, an AoC spy or something?

I have been waiting for this game 3 years, and I promise you that if you really were waiting for this, you would never go out 6 months before, and never before test it by your own.

You idiot.

[Unahim]

I feel like, ultimately, whether it be prior to release or after, they will give us caravans. I mean, people will use them if they want, and I can't see them taking a ridiculous amount of time to implement. Just a cart... With a large inventory... Attached to some horses... Why not?

Someone linked a DF screenshot of a cart in this thread, so they might already be in.
Tasos only said caravans are not hard coded after all, but rather player governed

[Forsaken]

Someone linked a DF screenshot of a cart in this thread, so they might already be in.
Tasos only said caravans are not hard coded after all, but rather player governed

If pack horses are in, coding in a fucken cart isn't hard.

Take a horse, CHANGE MODEL, CHANGE SOUND FILES, CHANGE COLLISION POINTS, BAM I HARDCODED A CARAVAN.

Essentially to me what it comes down to is :

"Our in-game engine is so terrible coding in a cart is impossible, much like how we don't have items on the ground hard-coded in"

[sawyerj66]

I've come to the conclusion that Unahim, Jangang, GlacierFreeze, and Hycran are the only people in this thread with common sense and fully operational logic chips.

I find it laughable that people REALLY think this is going to kill piracy and being a bandit. Because if UB's are in, no one is going to sail on a boat. Nope. And when you attack a boat and successfully take it over, none of the crew members are going to have anything worth keeping on them. Right.

Are people under the assumption that traders are going to have a huge "I CARRY LOTS OF LOOT" sign on them? There's going to be plenty of people that prefer making one trip over using limited UB space to transport dozens of item. And guess what? THEY'RE GOING TO LOOK LIKE EVERYONE ELSE. They'll be on a horse, wearing a cloak/robe. Maybe a cart, if the game has them. So it's up to you, the player, to not be a retard and assume you can play the role of the dashing highwayman that only attacks merchant conveys and magically knows who's carrying a shit ton of loot to steal and who's not.

[Nackl of Gilmed]

Jangang quoted me, does I get a logic chipz?

[Inja]

regarding universal banks though - the EVE players amongst us would say that not having UBs is not tedious at all, because the trade economy thrives to the point that it's just as convenient for the players.. not exatly true , all your isk in eve goes dirctly into a UB and you can access it in any station in the universe .

[Unahim]

If pack horses are in, coding in a fucken cart isn't hard.

Take a horse, CHANGE MODEL, CHANGE SOUND FILES, CHANGE COLLISION POINTS, BAM I HARDCODED A CARAVAN.

Essentially to me what it comes down to is :

"Our in-game engine is so terrible coding in a cart is impossible, much like how we don't have items on the ground hard-coded in"

They didn't say they couldn't hard coded a cart or a caravan model, they said they didn't hard code a group of npcs moving with a cart across a path you chose.

Grow a brain and l2read

[Forsaken]

They didn't say they couldn't hard coded a cart or a caravan model, they said they didn't hard code a group of npcs moving with a cart across a path you chose.

Grow a brain and l2read

When have I ever asked or stated I wanted NPC controlled caravan system?

As long as I can hitch on a cart or whatever the fuck onto my retarded horses, im happy as a bucket full of damn fufus.

[Nackl of Gilmed]

Forsaken edits his post to make mine meaningless.

[Myz]

When have I ever asked or stated I wanted NPC controlled caravan system?

As long as I can hitch on a cart or whatever the fuck onto my retarded horses, im happy as a bucket full of damn fufus.

Lol, the trouble sets in when you look at the opposite end of the spectrum. When have you ever said that you didn't, aside from now? :P

One must make assumptions sometimes.

[Etrurian_Akab]

Yup.

Just another carbon copy joke of a game, he even goes on to say on a personal level the idea of caravans doesn't even sound that fun (wtf?)

To be honest, it sounds like they are working with a very limited gameplay engine and can't deliver on a lot of wanted features.

I mean there is already no items on the ground + universal banks, I don't see much of a point in investing one's self into a clan / guild when a player can just stock his or her own bank with a few sets of gear and have fun at their own pace instead of raiding / pvping with a guild.

What's the point of conquest? There doesn't seem to be enough player accountability or economic hardship drawback to losing a war, just come back later after re-equipping from your bank and take a city back.

What's the point of having or using a ship? Is there REALLY going to be a noticeable advantage to sailing to a resource rich location? Will crafting even matter now that a crafter can craft some goods, store them in their bank and travel across Agon and sell them elsewhere? Will there even be a point to travel in the first place due to limited profit?

But where these dumbass are coming from?????
So you can build an empire with your clan, have armies and conquest cities, EVERY CITY! take resources from then, administrate them, have taxes... and you DON'T SEE THE FUCKING POINT OF HAVING A CLAN!!!!
In this there is full loot, no safe zones, groups of NPCs moving from side to side.... and YOU DON'T SEE THE POINT OF GOING TOGETHER WITH SOME MATES FOR SECURITY!!!!

And what is your fucking idea of a bank; a place where you go and take anything you need??? for free??? May be you're a rich son of dady kid, who just go to the bank and take money, and you think this is for free. But those who have a job, know that you have to earn that money before, and get it into the bank, what isn't easy at all.

And what the fuck??? How do you think the wars are loosing???
When the romans take Cartaghe they find there an enormus treasyre... so why the cartagines didn't just use that tresoure to win the war? It doesn't work like that; you can lose a batle, because your enemy is superior in any way, and then loss a city in an assault... and what's the matter of having an universal bank with money in it, if you have lost your only city?

And about the ships; evidently there wouldn't be universal banks in every place, you would have to transport items from one to another. And the point of shiping is that; shiping. Have you shiped in any other MMO before (there are some, but just for shiping, no more)??? Don't you think that shiping is the only way to go to the islands??? How did you think you will go, swiming?
And don't you see that shiping is the fastest way to do it???

I think you're another AoC bot trying to trol here.... that or you're a completly retard. You decide.

[sawyerj66]

When have I ever asked or stated I wanted NPC controlled caravan system?
Then what are you complaining about? It's clearly stated that players can take it upon themselves to team up with their wares in order to reach a destination safely - effectively becoming a caravan. Just because there's no button for it doesn't mean they're not.

And it has already been covered that UB's are very limited. So transporting a lot will be ineffective and a serious waste of time. Ergo, "caravans" are in. So what's the problem?

[Death's Chill]

show me where he says that

He says that they will likely not be implemented in the sense that we're thinking, but it is a cool idea and so there's leeway to be had. If it is not in the game upon release there's a large change that they'll add it in later as a patch imo. :)

[Aragoni]

EVERY CITY!

Except the newb ones! ;)

[End Dream]

i hate all you trolls

this was a great update from a dude in the hospital.. jesus christ

I hope you get better soon Tasos, thanks for the update it cleared up alot and I am excited about the video!

[Galadourn]

well, it's good that he is sorta healthy and back to work, and i believe this should be appreciated instead of flooding the forums with "OMG we are missing this and that features"...

Nice to re-affirm the release within the year and video hype...

[Wufiavelli]

Tasos said nothing about how many NPCs you can have or what you can make them do.
He only said spending your resources on players instead of NPcs is more useful.

yeh its a very Grey area, AOC ended up having the same problem with their NPCs and dropped a lot of the NPC features especially from their siege areas due to resource issues. I think its an extremely smart choice in the end. But in terms of wondering where the NPC festish comes from, it is partly from their own making when they loose lipped and idealistic. They are a lot better in regards to that issue now, but old ghost still seemed to haunt them as this thread shows. Not much they can do about it.

There is also the issue with caravans, which basically are in game in the way people want. Moving large resources similar for city building. Similar too moving parts in for POS in eve. You do not have small transport convoys like eve, but the that is pretty much made up for in terms of hunting down questers and explorers dappling around your region.

Also on the UB issues, especially in regards too local economies. Many people feared that UB would destroy local economies because no one would buy in the local shops when they die. Instead they will just take items out of a bank. But in fact if a guild wishes too boost its local merchants they can just ban non guild members from using a universal bank or just not put one in.

[Unahim]

When have I ever asked or stated I wanted NPC controlled caravan system?

As long as I can hitch on a cart or whatever the fuck onto my retarded horses, im happy as a bucket full of damn fufus.

You talked about "hardcoded caravan" seeing as that term can be used both as the model and the concept, you should specify. Like I did in my post.

[Zyrex]

A video in the next few weeks. Cool... I guess.

Few weeks, heard that before, probably 5 months or something with 5 min video.

[JusticeRings]

QQ more.

[Aragon]

Very nice update Tasos. Looking forward being able to see the video.:)

Dont let some of these spoiled brats get to you. They isnt worth a second of your attention. They is immature and dont know jackshit about real life.

[Jangang]

If pack horses are in, coding in a fucken cart isn't hard.

Take a horse, CHANGE MODEL, CHANGE SOUND FILES, CHANGE COLLISION POINTS, BAM I HARDCODED A CARAVAN.

Essentially to me what it comes down to is :

"Our in-game engine is so terrible coding in a cart is impossible, much like how we don't have items on the ground hard-coded in"

You are a dumbass... First of all the very post prior to yours talks about screenshots w/ carts...

Second of all, if you'd bothered to read Tasos post, it was clear that the reason for not hard coding a caravan button was two fold... One being that its not needed as the functionality to put one together on your own already exists. And two, what most of the talk regarding caravans was about was quite frankly something that would make the game tedious in the extreme and destroy the fun factor for many people.

If your idea of a caravan is nothing more then a cart, and the ability to use it, and maybe a few others doing the same, together, then guess what? Both are there... So stop bitching you whiney little cry baby!

[Wufiavelli]

Only way I could see a caravan feature being fun as a hardcode would be in an instanced and zoned game with a map similar to mount and blade. And non of that would really work with darkfall

[Septus]

1. To everyone bitching about piracy, you're fucking idiots. There's another name for pirates - we call them fucking PK's. And they will be in Darkfall en masse. PK'ers are usually some of the richest players in the game (next to full-time crafter/merchants), so I don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Has it ever occurred to you that when you attack a ship, the SHIP itself is lootable? That seems like a pretty good score to me. And on land, obviously, loot is loot. You'll get gear at minimum, and the gold the poor sap had been farming if you PK the right spots. Seriously, you guys sound like you've never PK'ed before.

2. UB's - Tasos said specifically you could still use caravans (in the form of ships or players & pack horses) to move goods. He specifically said the alternative was you running back and forth many times.

If city A and B are 2 hours apart, and I make one trip vs. your five trips, I'm making way more money than you. I make one trip, and then while you're making your next 4 trips (that's 8 fucking hours), I'm crafting more goods. From a profit standpoint, you're a fucking retard if you're trying to make money off of UB's. 8 hours. Think about that. I could lose 4 out of 5 caravans and I'd still be making more than you at that rate.

So obviously the main use of UB's will be for people who just want to resuit after PvP.

[Jangang]

i hate all you trolls

this was a great update from a dude in the hospital.. jesus christ

I hope you get better soon Tasos, thanks for the update it cleared up alot and I am excited about the video!

Very nice update Tasos. Looking forward being able to see the video.:)

Dont let some of these spoiled brats get to you. They isnt worth a second of your attention. They is immature and dont know jackshit about real life.

Aye, I hope everything is okay, and you feel better soon Tasos!
(Smooch Smooch, and a rub a dub on my suddenly brown nose!)

One of the best things about Adventurine (sp?) is that they don't change things often just because people whine about it. That is a very good thing, and I can only hope it continues. :)

I'm looking forward to the video, and I can't wait to play this beast of a game!

RAWR!!~!

[Unahim]

Adventurine (sp?)

Aventurine ^^

[Etrurian_Akab]

Ok then real known DF features are:
UB, Open PvP, trolls, mounts. Did i miss smething?


Hundreds of things. Have you ever read a dev Journal, or even what is in the official web???

[thenuh]

If you deliver imprecise information, people will speculate. This whole UB business illustrates this. Noone knows how it I going to work out, I doubt the devs know it themselves.

Anyways, I agree with gold. Loose your cool, look like a fool.

[GlacierFreeze]

1. To everyone bitching about piracy, you're fucking idiots. There's another name for pirates - we call them fucking PK's. And they will be in Darkfall en masse. PK'ers are usually some of the richest players in the game (next to full-time crafter/merchants), so I don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Has it ever occurred to you that when you attack a ship, the SHIP itself is lootable? That seems like a pretty good score to me. And on land, obviously, loot is loot. You'll get gear at minimum, and the gold the poor sap had been farming if you PK the right spots. Seriously, you guys sound like you've never PK'ed before.

2. UB's - Tasos said specifically you could still use caravans (in the form of ships or players & pack horses) to move goods. He specifically said the alternative was you running back and forth many times.

If city A and B are 2 hours apart, and I make one trip vs. your five trips, I'm making way more money than you. I make one trip, and then while you're making your next 4 trips (that's 8 fucking hours), I'm crafting more goods. From a profit standpoint, you're a fucking retard if you're trying to make money off of UB's. 8 hours. Think about that. I could lose 4 out of 5 caravans and I'd still be making more than you at that rate.

So obviously the main use of UB's will be for people who just want to resuit after PvP.


Ownage! :lmao:

[Kilmoran]

The irony...

"I hate games where the dev teams listen to all the whining!"

"Why don't the dev teams listen to my whining! MY whining is special compaired to THEIR whining!"

"I want them to make this game as best as they possibly can!"

"Why can't they spend 5 minutes not making the game to shoot a video for us?! " (Considering NDA and they don't want to show us anything AND we as a community, basically flamed them when they didn't give us a professional video....)

"Dark Fall is so awesome because you have the freedom to do what ever you want!"

"We don't know ANYTHING aobut Dark Fall because they can't tell us anything useful! Why did they add these features that make it so we can do what ever we want in a way that i personalyl don't like?!?!?"


I'm sorry... this isn't irony... this is hypocracy and some form of internet delusions of importance. The simple truth is, if you don't want to wait...don't. I know some of you clan peopel "don't want to invest your time in something else only for DFO to come out." Well.. then bite the bullet and make a decision. That's what leading people is about, making the hard choices. Stay or leave, wait or cry, but do it to your own people and spare us. For those solo people waiting for this game for soooooo long, it's a game. If it never exists, it will not be a detrement to your existence. If you cannot take waiting for entertainment because your life is so empty without it, you have far more problems than Dark Fall taking long to be released.

For those of you who are going to poitn at me and start waggling the finger of "Your in the same boat.", your right, i am. However, i have a paddle.

[Badem]

1. To everyone bitching about piracy, you're fucking idiots. There's another name for pirates - we call them fucking PK's. And they will be in Darkfall en masse. PK'ers are usually some of the richest players in the game (next to full-time crafter/merchants), so I don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Has it ever occurred to you that when you attack a ship, the SHIP itself is lootable? That seems like a pretty good score to me. And on land, obviously, loot is loot. You'll get gear at minimum, and the gold the poor sap had been farming if you PK the right spots. Seriously, you guys sound like you've never PK'ed before.

2. UB's - Tasos said specifically you could still use caravans (in the form of ships or players & pack horses) to move goods. He specifically said the alternative was you running back and forth many times.

If city A and B are 2 hours apart, and I make one trip vs. your five trips, I'm making way more money than you. I make one trip, and then while you're making your next 4 trips (that's 8 fucking hours), I'm crafting more goods. From a profit standpoint, you're a fucking retard if you're trying to make money off of UB's. 8 hours. Think about that. I could lose 4 out of 5 caravans and I'd still be making more than you at that rate.

So obviously the main use of UB's will be for people who just want to resuit after PvP.

This post Wins
:lmao:

But I have to say I agree, would much rather spend my time in game exploring and discovering the Darkfall world than running a pisssant Caravan from A-B (if i wanted that i would play EvE.......

Hope you get well soon Tasos, and its good to hear you plan on getting this out for 2008, Lets face it lots of people are waiting with baited breath for the game to be released

[Gem]

Man, maybe I've been spending too much time in the off topic forums...cause I don't remember so many carebears.

The poor man didn't say anything insulting, he clarified.

UBs...my bank is gonna be filled with weapons/armor/spell components/et so I don't run out when I get looted...if you WANT to fill yours with logs and stone, go for it, but when we need to build a city, it won't do you much good because an unbuilt city's bank is unbuilt, oh, and you won't have any armor to get it there.


Second...the big care bear issue, srsly? In a game thats supposed to be about skill, you guys want to run around with an NPC pals (or even a little personal army) so you can take on an equal player 2/3/4 : 1? Hey, while we are at it, lets make every class a pet class!

Bots should be guards and farmers (if they are in the game) only.

[Atheki]

Thanks for the time Tasos you took to write this "update". :cool:
Very much appreciated!

As for underscores, numbers, etc. in names it's just the way it works right now. If you don't like them, sure we'll take them out until you petition them back in when you run out of naming options. : )
*sarcasm on* Has your health problem hurt your brain? *sarcasm off*
The latin alphabet has 26 letters and with the possibility of having a charactername consisting of a forename and a last name, just estimate how many unique names can be created. :lmao:
And now please think again about your statement. :sly:

Looking forward to the next information from the team!

PS: And don´t work too much Tasos after a serious health problem...take your time!

[Erroneous]

Loved the update. I always thought that this whole caravan idea wouldn't amount to fun. If the weight limit on universal banks is somewhat strict you will still have some regionalization of the economy. Good sign that the developers don't care about bending over backwards to please the community. This community is different than the people who want easy mode, but that doesn't mean that we also can't go off the deep end with our ideas about the game. Trust the developers they have played the game.

[Aragoni]

Good sign that the developers don't care about bending over backwards to please the community.

I agree. Just look at SOE and how they've made SWG a much better place!
Couldn't resist :D

[Unahim]

I agree. Just look at SOE and how they've made SWG a much better place!
Couldn't resist :D

Finally, someone who agrees with me on the SOE thing! :rolleyes:

[Lucius]

*sarcasm on* Has your health problem hurt your brain? *sarcasm off*
The latin alphabet has 26 letters and with the possibility of having a charactername consisting of a forename and a last name, just estimate how many unique names can be created. :lmao:
And now please think again about your statement. :sly:

That might make sense if people wanted to have names like "xzouaodfauadyf".

You won't be able to see anyone's names without holding a reticule over them anwyays. Non-issue.

[GlacierFreeze]

That might make sense if people wanted to have names like "xzouaodfauadyf".

You won't be able to see anyone's names without holding a reticule over them anwyays. Non-issue.

+1

There are going to be retarded named Players in DF regardless. Might as well get over it now (sooner the better).

[Jangang]

Thanks for the time Tasos you took to write this "update". :cool:
Very much appreciated!


*sarcasm on* Has your health problem hurt your brain? *sarcasm off*
The latin alphabet has 26 letters and with the possibility of having a character name consisting of a forename and a last name, just estimate how many unique names can be created. :lmao:
And now please think again about your statement. :sly:

Looking forward to the next information from the team!

PS: And don´t work too much Tasos after a serious health problem...take your time!

The same people who cried about underscores and numbers are going to cry about "weird" letter combinations...

So though Frijaltrika Bjortrinmakus Might work, people will inevitably cry an ocean over that kind of name, and more so over things like lklghrtrfd sdrdrlng. The whining is just stupid imo, and shouldn't be listed to, not now, not ever, not even as much as it has been.

I say let any character that is present on a regular old every day standard keyboard be usable. Minus those that aren't recognizable w/ the font the game uses.

I particularly like apostrophes in names, especially if you play an elf... And dislike being forced to have a last name. But whatevas cleva... If I have to have a last name I'll make it something REALLY DUMB and ANNOYING just to piss off the people that whine about that sort of stuff.

SPITE IS NICE!

[boxfetish]

thanks for the update Tasos, hope you get back on your feet ASAP.

very excited about prospect of video & other stuff.

thanks for the clarifications too, they do help.

regarding universal banks though - the EVE players amongst us would say that not having UBs is not tedious at all, because the trade economy thrives to the point that it's just as convenient for the players.

my main concern about UBs is how much they trivialise the game economy & logistics meta-game.

Tasos' comments about universal banks would be spot on if we were talking FULLY local banks (i.e., money AND items are local).

However, almost nobody wants completely local banks and universal money-only banks offer almost exactly the same convenience as fully universal banks and don't come with all the exploits and ecocomy dumbing-down that making items universal does.

So, he didn't really address this issue at all, he sidestepped by addressing us as if we were asking for fully local banks. Score one for the EZ-moders.

It really doesn't bode well (IMO) for this game that the Developers think that a game without universal item banking = tedium. I am going to stick with this game until after release but it looks to be getting more and more dumbed down as the months leading up to release pass by. It's too bad.

[Kilmoran]

Thanks for the time Tasos you took to write this "update". :cool:
Very much appreciated!


*sarcasm on* Has your health problem hurt your brain? *sarcasm off*
The latin alphabet has 26 letters and with the possibility of having a charactername consisting of a forename and a last name, just estimate how many unique names can be created. :lmao:
And now please think again about your statement. :sly:

Looking forward to the next information from the team!

PS: And don´t work too much Tasos after a serious health problem...take your time!

The flaw in your logic is that you assume people want "unique" names.

[Froed]

Heh, it's funny and sad how after Tasos waggles his godlike finger upon the masses, they continue to make wild assumptions about what the game will be like.

My interpretation (also potentially wrong):
• No caravans (i.e. carts/pack horses), it has been said a character can carry a lot on their person. Players can still group together for protection to move their goods across Agon, which is basically what caravans are for.
• People will stop playing the game in a big way if universal banks are not in on some level, because of the sort of grief it will do. We still do not know how much they can hold.

[Unahim]

I am hijacking this thread. It is now about this exact link:

www.unahim.youaremighty.com

Discuss

[Kilmoran]

I agree. Just look at SOE and how they've made SWG a much better place!
Couldn't resist :D

I will note that SoE did what it did for potential customers and for those who thought things were too difficult and couldn't get any where. Thus... they did it because of pressure and to please everyone. It back fired massively, but that's why they did it.

[Aragoni]

I will note that SoE did what it did for potential customers and for those who thought things were too difficult and couldn't get any where. Thus... they did it because of pressure and to please everyone. It back fired massively, but that's why they did it.

Touché good sir. Maybe my wish that the devs would eliminate UB is to hardcore :(

[Atheki]

That might make sense if people wanted to have names like "xzouaodfauadyf".

You won't be able to see anyone's names without holding a reticule over them anwyays. Non-issue.
Jep, you are right and it isn´t a issue for me as you said. :)

But just for the fun of it, how about this:
On a webpage for babynames there are 12000 names listed (including special characters).
Use one for the forename and one for the last name.
That equals 144000000 unique names... :ohno:

[Kilmoran]

Tasos' comments about universal banks would be spot on if we were talking FULLY local banks (i.e., money AND items are local).

However, almost nobody wants completely local banks and universal money-only banks offer almost exactly the same convenience as fully universal banks and don't come with all the exploits and ecocomy dumbing-down that making items universal does.

So, he didn't really address this issue at all, he sidestepped by addressing us as if we were asking for fully local banks. Score one for the EZ-moders.

It really doesn't bode well (IMO) for this game that the Developers think that a game without universal item banking = tedium. I am going to stick with this game until after release but it looks to be getting more and more dumbed down as the months leading up to release pass by. It's too bad.

It really doesn't bode well (for you) that you think you have any real idea as to what your talking about. If you cannot trust the developers experience with their own game and others on features liek this in a world they hand made piece by piece to be absolutely ridiculously massive and seamless without flgiht paths and with very limtied teleportation, then well.. you can't trust them at all and you sohuldn't be here. I beleive that if you ever plan to leave where ever you have your stuff... it would be tedious to put it lightly to have to travel back how ever far just to go pick up a spare suit of armor cause you got ganked trying to see just what is on the other side of that mountain or something equally less important (possibly). Or perhaps your guild moved and you haven't finished transporting allllll your stuff from the back 2 days ride away. Perhaps your right though... perhaps it's not tedious to have to do busy work because you chose to use a bank and things changed.

[Kilmoran]

Heh, it's funny and sad how after Tasos waggles his godlike finger upon the masses, they continue to make wild assumptions about what the game will be like.

My interpretation (also potentially wrong):
• No caravans (i.e. carts/pack horses), it has been said a character can carry a lot on their person. Players can still group together for protection to move their goods across Agon, which is basically what caravans are for.
• People will stop playing the game in a big way if universal banks are not in on some level, because of the sort of grief it will do. We still do not know how much they can hold.

" As things stand you can form a caravan using mounts, ships etc. With them you can move large quantities of goods, fairly fast, rather than running small loads back and forth over and over."

From the update... apparently you are wrong. (Mounts being used to transport large amounts of goods = Pack Horses) Secondly, it has been said they can carry more than a normal person woudl be able to...but that isn't alot by any stretch.

[tejón]

1) DF does not have any "uber valuable items", not eevn the best gear will be valuable enough to generate big profits in those small amounts UB can transport them.
Not trying to fan any flames here, but I do have a counterpoint to this...

We know that resources in Darkfall are localized. To simplify, there are places where you can get iron but not silk, and places where you can get silk but not iron. It's not a question of whether there are super-great wizards' robes and freakin' epic claymores. It's a question of whether a given area has access to the materials needed to make wizards' robes, at all. That's what we're talking about with the discussion of local economies. Iron land will find silk to be "uber valuable," and silk land will likewise pay more for iron, because they need some damn claymores already.

Instantaneous transportation of goods threatens to homogenize these separate economies, destroying opportunities for brave travelers willing to go where silk's cheap and trade it for iron, then come back and do the opposite. Again, not to fan any flames: I say "threatens" because I'm not certain their implementation will cause this problem... just saying, this is the core concern for the economically-minded.

[Kilmoran]

Touché good sir. Maybe my wish that the devs would eliminate UB is to hardcore :(

Let open beta arrive... and test the limits of UB then. If it does the horrible things everyone seems to think ti will, THEN you have a legitimate complaint. As of now.. it's merely what people expect and anticipate, not what is fact.

[Kilmoran]

Jep, you are right and it isn´t a issue for me as you said. :)

But just for the fun of it, how about this:
On a webpage for babynames there are 12000 names listed (including special characters).
Use one for the forename and one for the last name.
That equals 144000000 unique names... :ohno:

And how many people acctually want unique names?

[GlacierFreeze]

... it would be tedious to put it lightly to have to travel back how ever far just to go pick up a spare suit of armor cause you got ganked trying to see just what is on the other side of that mountain or something equally less important (possibly).

/\ This is truth.

Dev Journal #26 even says that the use of UBs (limited) helps promote exploring.

Everyone is going to want to explore the world at some point. No one wants to do it with starter/newb gear (after you get ganked 3 hours from your "base") all the time either.

[Suraknar]

Nice update, concise and to the point.

As for the Doomsayers, well its normal, seen it in all games, there is always people that immagine that this game is tailor made for them only,

"Oh I want to log in step out of my hole and have caravans all over the place waiting for me to gank and loot em, then I get happy, log off till next mood swing".

People create their own false expectations at times and when it seems to derail from their own vision they talk about it. Funny stuff really!

Thanks Taso.

[TheHardProblem]

1. To everyone bitching about piracy, you're fucking idiots. There's another name for pirates - we call them fucking PK's. And they will be in Darkfall en masse. PK'ers are usually some of the richest players in the game (next to full-time crafter/merchants), so I don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Has it ever occurred to you that when you attack a ship, the SHIP itself is lootable? That seems like a pretty good score to me. And on land, obviously, loot is loot. You'll get gear at minimum, and the gold the poor sap had been farming if you PK the right spots. Seriously, you guys sound like you've never PK'ed before.

Pirates = PKs? Yes both may find the loot interesting, but I do think that both strategy and tactics are drasticly different between the two. To put it simply, one hunts alone or in small numbers, mostly without strategic or well thought out tactics, the kill is most important the loot comes second. The other is clear in it's strategy and always with a set of tactics, the loot comes first, the kill second or sometimes it's not important at all.
And how do you know PK's are 'the richest players in the game'? have you played the game? that is pure speculation without even a theory to back it up. Sure the PK'er can accumulate a lot of riches, but he can also lose it on the spot. I'm seeing this game have a lot less pvp or random pk's then some people think (still a lot remaining though!).


If city A and B are 2 hours apart, and I make one trip vs. your five trips, I'm making way more money than you. I make one trip, and then while you're making your next 4 trips (that's 8 fucking hours), I'm crafting more goods. From a profit standpoint, you're a fucking retard if you're trying to make money off of UB's. 8 hours. Think about that. I could lose 4 out of 5 caravans and I'd still be making more than you at that rate.

You assume the following:
-Next to the universal bank there will also be a 'local bank' which is much larger in holding space.
-You have items that you can also craft yourself
-Universal banks will only be used by people who trade in items that are quantity over quality. :lmao:

We don't know if there will be (large) local banks.
We don't know the ratio of quantity items to quality items.
We don't know how big our Universal banks will get.
We don't know how big our Inventories can get.

We do know that with Universal banks, the most valuable items will almost never be seeing the light of day or our inventory, because the UB will be their home.

[Nuzor]

nice update, looking forward to the video of "gameplay" it better be freaking long and show us loads of action. i predict the next update will be atleast 3 - 4 weeks wait.

[boxfetish]

I thought you to be more intelligent than that.
The one time is a caravan, the 100 times is using an UB with limited space, as it has always been.

Did you just chastise someone for trolling :rolleyes:

If there are no mechanics for caravans and no wagons or pack horses (this is unclear). Then 100 people on horseback can't really transport many more goods than one hundred universal bank runs, can they?

Of course we don't have enough details to know this. But, if anything, his comments that there are no caravans unless you "fake" one by having a bunch of people travel together means that limited universal item banks will have even more utility than they would if there were caravan mechanics to transport large amounts of goods at once.

Hopefully "LULZ WH3R3Z TEH TW1TCH PVP?" won't keep chipping away at the RPG part of the game and at release we won't end up with nothing more than a DarkFall skin for CS: Source.

[|2ock]

No caravans? No pirates? Limitless universalbanks. I really liked those features and this makes me disapointed. A video sounds good though.

He just doesn't know how to read or probly skimmed the article :bang:

[Fro]

Woohoo they do give a shit about the community! I wish you Tasos said he had been ill instead of "due to circumstances out of our control" which just sounded like he couldnt be bothered. Anyway thx my faith has been restored.

[Jangang]

Not trying to fan any flames here, but I do have a counterpoint to this...

We know that resources in Darkfall are localized. To simplify, there are places where you can get iron but not silk, and places where you can get silk but not iron. It's not a question of whether there are super-great wizards' robes and freakin' epic claymores. It's a question of whether a given area has access to the materials needed to make wizards' robes, at all. That's what we're talking about with the discussion of local economies. Iron land will find silk to be "uber valuable," and silk land will likewise pay more for iron, because they need some damn claymores already.

Instantaneous transportation of goods threatens to homogenize these separate economies, destroying opportunities for brave travelers willing to go where silk's cheap and trade it for iron, then come back and do the opposite. Again, not to fan any flames: I say "threatens" because I'm not certain their implementation will cause this problem... just saying, this is the core concern for the economically-minded.

What I believe Tasos was saying was that the consequences of purely localized banks, and using caravans turned out to cause more harm to the "fun factor" of the game then the localized economies brought. (Even they might be seen as a hindrance to fun in some eyes.)

Let them balance the system in beta. Betas are supposed to be for resolving just this type of issue, and coming to something that best fits the game.

[Unahim]

Not trying to fan any flames here, but I do have a counterpoint to this...

We know that resources in Darkfall are localized. To simplify, there are places where you can get iron but not silk, and places where you can get silk but not iron. It's not a question of whether there are super-great wizards' robes and freakin' epic claymores. It's a question of whether a given area has access to the materials needed to make wizards' robes, at all. That's what we're talking about with the discussion of local economies. Iron land will find silk to be "uber valuable," and silk land will likewise pay more for iron, because they need some damn claymores already.

Instantaneous transportation of goods threatens to homogenize these separate economies, destroying opportunities for brave travelers willing to go where silk's cheap and trade it for iron, then come back and do the opposite. Again, not to fan any flames: I say "threatens" because I'm not certain their implementation will cause this problem... just saying, this is the core concern for the economically-minded.

You have a point that the further away from the city you store your loot in, the more valuable it could be.

But if it's further away than the next city over you'll spend days going back and forward, so this is not an issue.

[Septus]

Pirates = PKs? Yes both may find the loot interesting, but I do think that both strategy and tactics are drasticly different between the two. To put it simply, one hunts alone or in small numbers, mostly without strategic or well thought out tactics, the kill is most important the loot comes second. The other is clear in it's strategy and always with a set of tactics, the loot comes first, the kill second or sometimes it's not important at all.

That's a pretty random definition you came up with. Bottom line, PK's are essentially bandits/pirates. Not all pirates use "tactics," that's asinine. Good PK's (and pirates) do.


We do know that with Universal banks, the most valuable items will almost never be seeing the light of day or our inventory, because the UB will be their home.

Yeah I agree, "high end" items may be shielded w/ the UB. But imo these items won't be as prolific as many people think. In UO, the "best" items were barely better than player crafted gear.

[paade]

"..we’re thinking of the majority of players.."

eww, please dont do that. Majority of players are morons.

[Unahim]

Did you just chastise someone for trolling :rolleyes:

If there are no mechanics for caravans and no wagons or pack horses (this is unclear). Then 100 people on horseback can't really transport many more goods than one hundred universal bank runs, can they?

Of course we don't have enough details to know this. But, if anything, his comments that there are no caravans unless you "fake" one by having a bunch of people travel together means that limited universal item banks will have even more utility than they would if there were caravan mechanics to transport large amounts of goods at once.

Hopefully "LULZ WH3R3Z TEH TW1TCH PVP?" won't keep chipping away at the RPG part of the game and at release we won't end up with nothing more than a DarkFall skin for CS: Source.

Very limited space in UBs mean anything to you?

Plus, he didn't say there weren't any pack mules or carts, we even showed screenshots of carts in this thread, he said there'd be no "make caravan" button. No hardcoded caravans, only player created ones.

Deriously people, every argument you can use has been used and countered succesfully already.

If you can read through these 13 pages and still have a problem, PM me with it rather than bugging the communtiy any more.

But only if you read this entire thread.

[Fro]

Im not sure about UB's still. We still dont know exactly how they work but im not to fussed about having them in.Theres different kinds of grind and having to run across the map everytime you need an item because its in a bank half way across the map is what i would call a grind.

[Kilmoran]

Did you just chastise someone for trolling :rolleyes:

If there are no mechanics for caravans and no wagons or pack horses (this is unclear). Then 100 people on horseback can't really transport many more goods than one hundred universal bank runs, can they?

Of course we don't have enough details to know this. But, if anything, his comments that there are no caravans unless you "fake" one by having a bunch of people travel together means that limited universal item banks will have even more utility than they would if there were caravan mechanics to transport large amounts of goods at once.

Hopefully "LULZ WH3R3Z TEH TW1TCH PVP?" won't keep chipping away at the RPG part of the game and at release we won't end up with nothing more than a DarkFall skin for CS: Source.

I don't understand how people miss the Ships carrying loads of stuff...and the words he used suggested that mounts have their own storage and thus are better for carrying loads than people (As it should be). There are far better ways than UB runners... stated quite clearly... atleast one way is absolutely better (Ships) where as the other is debatably better (mounts, depending on if they are "packable" or not) only because of expedience for some reason not being counted as a part of the process.

[boxfetish]

Well, I gotta admit Septus makes much more sense when talking about UBs than Tasos. "Universal Banks are industry standard for a reason" - so are instances, zones and turn-based PvP. But it's ok, at least we have an honest statement than caravans were not even planned, and you don't mind if UBs take their role. Might want to update your website.

Official Darkfall website
"You may choose to play a merchant, setting up caravans and shops in different cities, buying high quality hides from Mahirim hunters and selling them for top prices at Human cities."

Tasos in 2006, RPG Vault
"Traders can form caravans or convoys for their mutual protection."

And Tasos in 2008
"As for caravans, firstly, we never confirmed that they were in the game. They were never in the original design; they weren’t announced as a feature, they were just brought up and have been promoted by some community members."

Yes indeed "we" brought them up and promoted them :rolleyes:

Winner.

[Fro]

Can we make a universal bank thread sticky please ?

[boxfetish]

I don't understand how people miss the Ships carrying loads of stuff...and the words he used suggested that mounts have their own storage and thus are better for carrying loads than people (As it should be). There are far better ways than UB runners... stated quite clearly... atleast one way is absolutely better (Ships) where as the other is debatably better (mounts, depending on if they are "packable" or not) only because of expedience for some reason not being counted as a part of the process.

Nobody missed that. If you are on the coast and you need to move large numbers of items to another coast on Agon they will work fine. A large amount of the world is land locked. My only point really is that if caravans are not a mechanic or feature then universal item banks have even more utility than we thought they did when we supposedly made up the feature of overland caravans.

[St3n]

People why so much text?
FACE THE TRUTH!
UB in: game ruined, end of story.

************************************
DF Community: Mercy!
Tasos: God has mercy, I DONT!
************************************

[Sai Taer]

I have just a general sort of question...

Is it really that fun to speculate about the worst possible conditions for an implementation we know almost nothing about?

It just seems to me like it would be a better use of one's time to wait for actual details on the system to come out, and bitch about them as needed then.

[Alfemus]

I liked this small update personally but as I am going to rp a pimp I need my NPC biaches.

[Nuzor]

Very limited space in UBs mean anything to you?

Plus, he didn't say there weren't any pack mules or carts, we even showed screenshots of carts in this thread, he said there'd be no "make caravan" button. No hardcoded caravans, only player created ones.

Deriously people, every argument you can use has been used and countered succesfully already.

If you can read through these 13 pages and still have a problem, PM me with it rather than bugging the communtiy any more.

But only if you read this entire thread.

Quoteing for emphasis.

[boxfetish]

People automatically assume a feature will be as bad as the developers can possibly implement it to be as a self-defence mechanism caused by previous let-downs. I guess it's natural to think like that, but hopefully the game will speak for itself once it's released.

Lets flip this around:

People automatically assume a feature will be as good as the developers can possibly implement it to be in denial about all of the MMOs that have been previous let downs.

See, it doesn't really matter. The Devs can listen to us or not. It's their choice. The game may be great or it may suck. We shall see. The point is that UBs, portals, SRS, ARACs, etc., IN GENERAL, are piss poor, carebear features that take away from a game.

This is not to say that the Devs CAN'T implement them well. They may have very well thought out and balanced implementations of these things. We have no way of knowing. The arguments are about these lame features generally, not about the way that the Devs have implemented them in Darkfall.

[Etrurian_Akab]

People why so much text?
FACE THE TRUTH!
UB in: game ruined, end of story.

************************************
DF Community: Mercy!
Tasos: God has mercy, I DONT!
************************************

DF Community? Game ruined?

What the shit are the supporters of local banks speaking about???!!!
I have been here 3 years, and the universal banks have won every single poll (there were many) I have seen in the official forums. So, which fucking community are you speaking about???!!!
The community want universal banks; and if you want to go to the same fucking city every-time you die and need some good gear, do it; you have the right to be a fool.
And those of we who want to enjoy the game, and have a good time playing (not just a boring an routin time as playing WoW, because you really look wowers, that isn't harcore), killing, and doing some PvP and PvE like universal banks in the limited way they will make them.


And, anyway, have you read any of the last 10 dev journal, you noob??? Are you acting??? You look sorpreses, but Tasos has said in 3 (3!!!!) dev journals that they have decided to get UB in. So, what is this crap now, you AoC lier spy!!!!!????

I'm almost sure; all this fucking trols come from Funcom. This is sabotage. Don't be foolish, DF community, don't listen to them. We will have the game WE want!!!!! And not a crap like AoC is.

[Red Morgan]

Lets flip this around:

People automatically assume a feature will be as good as the developers can possibly implement it to be in denial about all of the MMOs that have been previous let downs.

See, it doesn't really matter. The Devs can listen to us or not. It's their choice. The game may be great or it may suck. We shall see. The point is that UBs, portals, SRS, ARACs, etc., IN GENERAL, are piss poor, carebear features that take away from a game.

This is not to say that the Devs CAN'T implement them well. They may have very well thought out and balanced implementations of these things. We have no way of knowing. The arguments are about these lame features generally, not about the way that the Devs have implemented them in Darkfall.

Carebear features? LOL I swear... you folks don't even know what the word "carebear" means anymore. "Carebear" is not synonymous with "I don't like it", sorry.

[Septus]

Nobody missed that. If you are on the coast and you need to move large numbers of items to another coast on Agon they will work fine. A large amount of the world is land locked. My only point really is that if caravans are not a mechanic or feature then universal item banks have even more utility than we thought they did when we supposedly made up the feature of overland caravans.

Well it would still be in your benefit to use horses (with their extra pack space?) to reach land locked areas (faster too). I'd still love to see these people who think they can run across open-PvP areas naked and live.

Why do caravans have to be a mechanic? Just load shit up on a ship and take it. Or gather some players, load up your goods, and take it.

The most a UB does is hedge your risk - e.g. pack your horses with 100 swords and pack your UB with 20. I don't see how some idiot who chooses ONLY to take the 20 swords will be able to compete in price with some one taking 120 per trip.

20 swords per 2 hours (you), 120 swords per 2 hours (me). That means I could get my caravan ransacked 5 out of 6 times and still be making as much gold as you.

[Septus]

See, it doesn't really matter. The Devs can listen to us or not. It's their choice. The game may be great or it may suck. We shall see. The point is that UBs, portals, SRS, ARACs, etc., IN GENERAL, are piss poor, carebear features that take away from a game.

How are these features carebear? Maybe "EZ MODE" as you like to call it, but carebear means you don't want combat. Most of these features encourage combat.

[boxfetish]

DF Community? Game ruined?

What the shit are the supporters of local banks speaking about???!!!
I have been here 3 years, and the universal banks have won every single poll (there were many) I have seen in the official forums. So, which fucking community are you speaking about???!!!
The community want universal banks; and if you want to go to the same fucking city every-time you die and need some good gear, do it; you have the right to be a fool.
And those of we who want to enjoy the game, and have a good time playing (not just a boring an routin time as playing WoW, because you really look wowers, that isn't harcore), killing, and doing some PvP and PvE like universal banks in the limited way they will make them.


And, anyway, have you read any of the last 10 dev journal, you noob??? Are you acting??? You look sorpreses, but Tasos has said in 3 (3!!!!) dev journals that they have decided to get UB in. So, what is this crap now, you AoC lier spy!!!!!????

I'm almost sure; all this fucking trols come from Funcom. This is sabotage. Don't be foolish, DF community, don't listen to them. We will have the game WE want!!!!! And not a crap like AoC is.

Eat a dick. Universal MONEY-ONLY wins almost every single poll usually quite handily over Universal MONEY AND ITEMS banks. I love the lies and misinformation being perped by the EZ-mode crowd in this thread.

Why don't you jackasses stop pretending that you just want to enjoy a game and admit that you pussies just want everything fucking handed to you on a platter and can't stand any sort of challenge or effort. The easier the game the shorter it's life.

Next Topic: Can we please have cheat codes and bots? This game will be too hard otherwise.

[Dredgon]

Tasos is an undead racist...

[Staatsschutz]

i think tasos misunderstood some of the community. it isnt about a game mechanic called "caravans".

its about ppl having to transport goods over the lands, and others being able to ambush them, while the traders who transport the goods being able to hire guards etc etc.

i still hope universal banks wont disable that feature. thats all about it is.

and unahim: why should anyone need to transport goods from his universal bank to his local bank? i cant see any good reason for that...

i would guess universal banks are located in the main cities, and thats also where i as a trader will stand and advertise my goods, if there is no automated market system.

[Aelius]

Universal MONEY-ONLY wins almost every single poll usually quite handily over Universal MONEY AND ITEMS banks.

if you don't want universal bank, don't use it. just go back to the place you chose to be your bank to restock on gear and supplies everytime you need to. just because universal banks is implented doesn't mean you have to use it. THIS IS DARKFALL, play it your own way.

[Etrurian_Akab]

Eat a dick. Universal MONEY-ONLY wins almost every single poll usually quite handily over Universal MONEY AND ITEMS banks. I love the lies and misinformation being perped by the EZ-mode crowd in this thread.

Why don't you jackasses stop pretending that you just want to enjoy a game and admit that you pussies just want everything fucking handed to you on a platter and can't stand any sort of challenge or effort. The easier the game the shorter it's life.

Next Topic: Can we please have cheat codes and bots? This game will be too hard otherwise.

Ah... and you will be surprised if in the next update Tasos says; "there will be no perma-death", don't you???
And then feel angry and cry as a baby; "all you are carebears!!!!".
I prefer universal money banks only; but anyway, if there are few universal banks, I don't see a big problem in that. It isn't an importan feature; not as full loot, no levels, no classes, fps PvP, the mobs AI, or the clan-cities system... What are you, a boring crafter-merchant whose only objetive is to feel like marco polo???? You have a problem with blood, haven't you???
Don't feel sick, you can go play WoW whenever you want.

[mefistofelis]

I thank Unahim for trying to bring back sanity in the forum....

I am amazed by the fact that lots of people cry out to the devs to implement features that take them by the hand and lead them,well wow did bring some evil in the mmo world.

As i already said in many posts before,the problem is not what you implement in a game but HOW you do it....so wait test it and if you dont like it dont play it.

I dont know why but many members have formed an image in their mind that this game is hardcore players ONLY!....well surprise,surprise,its not.Its a game that all players will enjoy.

Best wishes to tassos,get better soon m8.

[Valroth]

Umm, caravans were never a feature? Why did they release screenshots of freaking caravan models a few years ago then? We've been talking about caravans and shit for ages, why didn't he clear up the missunderstanding before now? Decided they'd just leave people to their delusions I suppose. Jolly good show old chap! Funny how he says universal banking has become the standard, when hey, so has level grinding and shitty PvP. Darkfall is supposed to be revolutionary, so using 'the standard' as reasoning for a feature is fucking stupid.

Anyways, looking forward to Darkfall. :)

[La Cuspide Scarlatta]

I can't believe I just read 15 pages of utter madness

[yamisniper]

He makes a good point that the community is just saying stuff is in teh game without real confermation. I don't think they ever confirmed caravans or pirating. (pirating is know useless because of universal banks)

no he said its a waste of time to transport large quanitys and they will a djust if they have too.
as long as they get a good balance it will be fine

[tejón]

How are these features carebear? Maybe "EZ MODE" as you like to call it, but carebear means you don't want combat. Most of these features encourage combat.
I'd point you to my sig, but you're Septus.

[Red Morgan]

I'd point you to my sig, but you're Septus.

Carebear is direct control over anything else?

How about when I conquer your city and force half your clan into my servitude? How carebear would that be?

[yamisniper]

People why so much text?
FACE THE TRUTH!
UB in: game ruined, end of story.

************************************
DF Community: Mercy!
Tasos: God has mercy, I DONT!
************************************

you wish

[Merrin]

Umm, caravans were never a feature? Why did they release screenshots of freaking caravan models a few years ago then? We've been talking about caravans and shit for ages, why didn't he clear up the missunderstanding before now? Decided they'd just leave people to their delusions I suppose. Jolly good show old chap! Funny how he says universal banking has become the standard, when hey, so has level grinding and shitty PvP. Darkfall is supposed to be revolutionary, so using 'the standard' as reasoning for a feature is fucking stupid.

All race clans, universal banks...I'm confident they have already implemented other changes that contradict what we've read about these past five years.

[Fledrel]

Caravan : a procession (of wagons or mules or camels) traveling together in single file
Caravan: A caravan is a group of travellers, such as merchants or pilgrims, journeying together.

caravans are in. as with most other things in Darkfall, they will have to be player made. There is no built in caravan system.

ALSO: this game has been described as a FPS, SPG, and RTS. the RTS part will be building and manageing reasources. You will still have to transport materials from one place to another, example; mine to city. plus perhaps you purchase a large quanity of "stone" from a neighboring guild and you have to transport it to your city, thus a caravan in simplist terms has to be created.

When america was founded we recieved the right to freedom of religion, we also recieved the right to freedom FROM religion. You as a darkfall player have a right to play using UB and have the right NOT to use UB. Your choice. and from my viewpoint of RTS games, UB will in no way destroy pirates.

[GlacierFreeze]

All race clans, universal banks...I'm confident they have already implemented other changes that contradict what we've read about these past five years.

Who cares? It was THEIR decision to make changes. Get over it.

Learn to program and make your own game the way YOU want it to be or invest millions into the controlling stake of the company.

[GlacierFreeze]

Caravan : a procession (of wagons or mules or camels or horses or walking it yourself) traveling together in single file

caravans are in. as with most other things in Darkfall, they will have to be player made. There is no built in caravan system.

ALSO: ..... You will still have to transport materials from one place to another, example; mine to city. plus perhaps you purchase a large quanity of "stone" from a neighboring guild and you have to transport it to your city, thus a caravan in simplist terms has to be created.


Surprised more people don't see how "limited" UBs won't eliminate caravans/bandits/pirates. +1 to you.

[doma]

Universal Banks suck.

[Fledrel]

Universal Banks suck.

wow. just wow.
I'm convinced. >.>

[Nuzor]

UB can be implemented in a way that suit's the majority of players, the world is not black and white and i'm sure they are testing it to make it work, if it gets to OB and everyone says they want UB's out then i'm sure aventurine will listen.

[Staatsschutz]

i believe, the main need for transporting goods will be from the mines to the smelter. and then for transporting building materials which have a huge volume.

but other than that, it seems there wont be much caravans. a regular crafter doesnt seem to have to transport his daily trading goods manually.

i personally would have prefered that all goods have to be transported manually, but thats apparently not gonna happen.

but oh well, uo didnt have that feature of pure manual transportation either, and UO was still big fun. so not a real game breaker.

(but local varying markets would still be a great thing, but those are probably not going to happen either, at least not to the extent i was wishing for)

i hope it still holds true that herbs are still varying between the regions, so there will be at least varying local markets for herbs

[Kietharr]

The only things that have pissed me off recently is the fact that first names can be shared with characters that have different last names, and that penalties to ARAC clans have been reduced. Universal Banks are no big deal, stop throwing shit fits you realism fags. He even said himself that for large scale transportation of resources you will need to carry them, and that there will be a need for large scale transfers to player cities and settlements without UB's.

First names being sharable is the big one though, I understand there are people with the same name as me IRL, but in a game I want to be sure that my name is 100% unique, I don't want another Kietharr running around sullying my name, I don't care if first/last combos must be unique, forcing last names on us is lame anyways. If you're going to let us have numbers in our names you obviously don't care about roleplay value, so why not a lack of last names?

[Dorundain]

Tasos said nothing about how many NPCs you can have or what you can make them do.
He only said spending your resources on players instead of NPcs is more useful.

I didn't get that sense from what he wrote...

What’s this NPC fascination about? Why not raise a player army instead? Every bot takes up resources players could be using and Darkfall is a massive multiplayer game.

It sounds to me as though "resources" in that quote refers to system resources (e.g., memory and CPU cycles), not in-game resources. I read that as, "The more NPC's there are, the fewer players that the server can support."

I'm personally pretty disappointed in a lot of the decisions that Tasos has revealed in the last several updates. It's not shaping up to be the game I'd understood it to be when I originally saw the feature list. That said, I'm sure it'll be fun in its own way. And let's face it, our experiences with the game mechanics we're arguing about is limited to a handful of past and present MMO's, and colored by all sorts of other mechanical and design choices that were peculiar to those games.

The Aventurine devs know how these features work in detail, and we don't. However, particularly because of my own QA background, I have my doubts about whether their internal testing has really revealed how some of their design choices will play out in a fully populated game world. I hope that they'll at least re-examine some of these decisions during the public beta.

[epicor]

Thanks for the update Tasos.

However my opinion of the game went from hopeing for the most uberest hawtness to hit the net ever, to something that should entertain me for a couple years. Hopefully when we finally get in and play the stuff Tasos is saying about fun vs realism is 100% true and all my hopes for caravans and such will be realized in a different way than i thought. Though i DFO devolving from the breathing economy we imagine into a FFA killingspree with no real background.

[Smasher]

sounds cool that you got local banks as well as universal.. keeping a few sets of basics in each town will be fun

what i want to know is if i choose universal banks to just store my money is there a limit to that? most games have money and items as too different entitys (money having no mass or space).

and are there personal banks, in your own dwellings? like a treasure chest at the foot of the bed

[T-Man]

I hope you get well soon.

[Zealot08]

Universal banks for items, except maybe only if it could hold 1 or two specialized ones, are something I really can't live with, and the main thing that makes all other attempts at a living PvP other than guild combat a joke. Very disappointing to say the least. Yeah he says you can still caravan or pirate if you want, but it is obvious and he even implies that either on a large scale (aka guilds dedicated to them) would be fairly pointless.

[Tartarsauce]

T


I believe Tasos was just making a straight-forward statement here. We can form caravans. We can also use our universal banks. However - and this is a characteristic of more westernized English - the way these two statements are placed together at the begining of the paragraph may lead the reader to see it as an "or" statement:

"You do have the freedom of forming caravans, or you also have the option..."

Seemingly making these two features real substitutes. If you don't want to caravan, you don't have to - the universal bank system will allow you to move the products just as well.


More later. Company meeting to go to.

actually in proper grammatical English, at least from a quantitative perspective, the 'or' is inclusive and basically means 'and'. Since I'm sure they were taught English this way as foreigners, I'm positive their meaning is 'and'

[Kilmoran]

Nobody missed that. If you are on the coast and you need to move large numbers of items to another coast on Agon they will work fine. A large amount of the world is land locked. My only point really is that if caravans are not a mechanic or feature then universal item banks have even more utility than we thought they did when we supposedly made up the feature of overland caravans.

I don't see how having mounts and such and possibly carts do not = caravans when traveling as a group...that's all a "caravan" is... it's not anything specific... there doesn't need to be a "feature" to have people travel together carrying stuff.

[Kilmoran]

People why so much text?
FACE THE TRUTH!
UB in: game ruined, end of story.

************************************
DF Community: Mercy!
Tasos: God has mercy, I DONT!
************************************

*Waves* ?

[Ofuscado]

Seriously, this community is it's worst enemy.

Hear, hear.

[GlacierFreeze]

I don't see how having mounts and such and possibly carts do not = caravans when traveling as a group...that's all a "caravan" is... it's not anything specific... there doesn't need to be a "feature" to have people travel together carrying stuff.

Yay, someone gets it! +1

[Kilmoran]

Lets flip this around:

People automatically assume a feature will be as good as the developers can possibly implement it to be in denial about all of the MMOs that have been previous let downs.

See, it doesn't really matter. The Devs can listen to us or not. It's their choice. The game may be great or it may suck. We shall see. The point is that UBs, portals, SRS, ARACs, etc., IN GENERAL, are piss poor, carebear features that take away from a game.

This is not to say that the Devs CAN'T implement them well. They may have very well thought out and balanced implementations of these things. We have no way of knowing. The arguments are about these lame features generally, not about the way that the Devs have implemented them in Darkfall.


If they are not done lamely... then how are they lame? There is nothing wrong with almost any idea as long as it's done well. For instance, Full Loot is lame i na game with super items of ultimate destruction that can never break. The reason why is 1. They will likely never be used. 2. If they are used, they will never ever be of any acctual use becuase everyone will gang you for it. 3. If some cla nwas able to get large quantities of these, they would likely be using them (if at all) i na way to disrupt anything close to them fro mever being made or used again *ganking those who can amke it or those they have heard have gotten it with nubmers and "ultimate" power). However... full loot in a game where loot isn't the end all, be all thing in the game is to everyoen here, one of the best game play features.

[MattMystrieo]

Have fun running back and forth 1000 times if you're not going to be using ships to transport your goods.

Couldn't he just use his UB?

[Tartarsauce]

Personally I think tasos made a point that a lot of people just can't see. Some people on this forum seem to be so ultra-hardcore they forget that over all a game has to be fun. Tasos has said before your going to die a lot in darkfall. That means all of us. People need to think on both sides of the fence.

If i am not mistaken in a previous update they specificly said not all banks will be universal. The world is huge you are still going to have points where you are not close to a universal bank and you are going to have to trek back to one. People really need to think about this. If you are bored out exploring are you really going to have fun if you die and you have to run 2 hours back someplace because you forgot something?

The no universal bank system works in eve because of warp. There isn't going to be teleporting whenever you feel like it in darkfall.

I am fine with no npc caravan. Nobody would use them anyway because they would get robbed constantly. You would have entire guilds that all they did was rob caravans all day every day nothing would ever get through. If you were going to spend the money to get a powerfull enough caravan you probably have a big eough clan to just transport it yourselves. Cool feature on paper kind of but would be stupid in practice.

I like this. Finally someone thinking of WHAT IT WOULD ACTUALLY BE LIKE in the game to run a caravan. Basically, pretty damn shitty

[LanMandragon]

dear tasos,
get well. Thank you for the update. Thank you foe being honest. Everything sounds awesome. Keep up the good work. Oh and hurry up I and me guys will be bored of AOC soon and we will be here harassing you guys if its December with no launch. Lol
thank you and look forward to the video.

[Tartarsauce]

t
B) :(:(UB cry cry cry
- Eat a big bag of dicks. T

"Suck a bag of dicks" C.K. Lewis :D

[Kilmoran]

i think tasos misunderstood some of the community. it isnt about a game mechanic called "caravans".

its about ppl having to transport goods over the lands, and others being able to ambush them, while the traders who transport the goods being able to hire guards etc etc.

i still hope universal banks wont disable that feature. thats all about it is.

and unahim: why should anyone need to transport goods from his universal bank to his local bank? i cant see any good reason for that...

i would guess universal banks are located in the main cities, and thats also where i as a trader will stand and advertise my goods, if there is no automated market system.

If there are two banks such as that... i would say the reason would mostly be space.. and seperating your personal gear from your "location" oriented gear. If you are a trader for instance, you may want to keep your stock in the local bank...and your more personal adventuring/private or specialty stock in your universal bank.

[Kilmoran]

Umm, caravans were never a feature? Why did they release screenshots of freaking caravan models a few years ago then? We've been talking about caravans and shit for ages, why didn't he clear up the missunderstanding before now? Decided they'd just leave people to their delusions I suppose. Jolly good show old chap! Funny how he says universal banking has become the standard, when hey, so has level grinding and shitty PvP. Darkfall is supposed to be revolutionary, so using 'the standard' as reasoning for a feature is fucking stupid.

Anyways, looking forward to Darkfall. :)

I believe his point aobut UB's beign a stanard "for a reason" was to indicate that he and the rest of the devs felt that there was legitimate reaso nto have it in their game. I doubt he meant that all standards were in place for any "real" reason.

[Smasher]

Local Bank > Universal bank >= backpack

whats to say the universal bank is about the same size as your back pack,,
its gonna cut your transporting time but not out all together

eg

goto local bank, fill back pack
goto universal bank, empty backpack into universal bank
goto local bank, fill back pack

either join a caravan(CONVOY) or risk a solo journey to your destination

goto New local bank, empty back pack into New local bank
goto Universal bank, empty Universal bank into backpack
goto New local bank, empty back pack into new local bank


now i cant see a UB being more then a couple of times bigger then your backpack
so its not gonna cut out the need to transport. and im guessing raw materials will take up a hell of a lot of space

[GlacierFreeze]

Couldn't he just use his UB?

He was saying if you DID use the UB, then you WOULD be "running back and forth 1000 times...." instead of using a ship and making 1 trip (his example).

[Tartarsauce]

1. To everyone bitching about piracy, you're fucking idiots. There's another name for pirates - we call them fucking PK's. And they will be in Darkfall en masse. PK'ers are usually some of the richest players in the game (next to full-time crafter/merchants), so I don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Has it ever occurred to you that when you attack a ship, the SHIP itself is lootable? That seems like a pretty good score to me. And on land, obviously, loot is loot. You'll get gear at minimum, and the gold the poor sap had been farming if you PK the right spots. Seriously, you guys sound like you've never PK'ed before.

2. UB's - Tasos said specifically you could still use caravans (in the form of ships or players & pack horses) to move goods. He specifically said the alternative was you running back and forth many times.

If city A and B are 2 hours apart, and I make one trip vs. your five trips, I'm making way more money than you. I make one trip, and then while you're making your next 4 trips (that's 8 fucking hours), I'm crafting more goods. From a profit standpoint, you're a fucking retard if you're trying to make money off of UB's. 8 hours. Think about that. I could lose 4 out of 5 caravans and I'd still be making more than you at that rate.

So obviously the main use of UB's will be for people who just want to resuit after PvP.

I hope the trolls actually read this. This is a common sense example of what the game will ACTUALLY be like. Not something they dreamed up in their head because they think they remember what UO was like, or they have some fascination of what it should be.

learn2inform yourself

[GlacierFreeze]

now i cant see a UB being more then a couple of times bigger then your backpack
so its not gonna cut out the need to transport. and im guessing raw materials will take up a hell of a lot of space

Something tells me that a player's "backpack" will be bigger than the "limited" UB, probably not by much though and of course I could be wrong.

[Tartarsauce]

The latin alphabet has 26 letters and with the possibility of having a charactername consisting of a forename and a last name, just estimate how many unique names can be created. :lmao:

actually its 26^26th power TIMES 26^26th power

GG for unique names from the latin alphabet