New Dwarf Sketch

[Claus]

We just posted the new dwarf concept sketch.

We made him alot tougher and meaner looking than the old dwarf. We cant see why dwarves have to be little fat mini-santas, when they should be some really rough badasses, living in caves and carrying rocks all day.

Of course they should look badass!

And they are the best smiths in the world, so they should have some really really advanced awesome looking armor too http://www.darkfallonline.com/community/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

So.. do you guys like the new dwarf?



...Alfar is up next btw. We are kinda happy with the Alfar, but we want to give him a bit more muscle, and bigger eyes and ears.

Orks, Mahirim, Humans and Elves should be redone shortly too.

[Zakath]

Luuuuv it! He looks like a mean bastid! Now give us a mean bstid background and I might even go dwarf http://www.darkfallonline.com/community/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Zak

[La Cuspide Scarlatta]

He looks quite pissed off, yes! Is he facing a troll? http://www.darkfallonline.com/community/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

just one note... isn't the head a bit small in respect of the body?

[Norderhov]

Better!!

But still not kick azz...

The anatomy is a bit better now, but I agree that the head is too small. I must say that I'm impressed by the rendering of details: the sheen on the armour, and the hair, etc. Man, that's good work!

But somehow it's just too neat and glossy... It doesn't really give me the right feeling, I was expecting something darker and more sinister... It's not REAL, if you get what I mean? Not BELIEVABLE...

But hey; it's probably gonna look good in the game, that's what matters! Keep it up, guys!

- Norderhov

[Fairstone]

I'm definitely more scared of that dwarf than the previous one.  Of course, Derwin will use the old images, but I think I just might have, I mean HAVE, to use that in a new comic.

Heh heh.

I like it.

[Blade]

That dwarf looks pretty good, but i think he is a little too wide and head and hands are too small. The armor looks awesome! And the look of the face! Cool guys, youre getting better and better at it! http://www.darkfallonline.com/community/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Jeka]

Methinks that the new Dwarf still looks like a santa :|

It's probably because proportions are a little bit off... he just doesn't seem to look real

[Xetro]

Thats a Dwarven I might say.

The Iron Dwarf

[Hitman]

Hey! The new dwarf looks just like my little brother; short, mean, ugly, facial hairs, strenght ( he must be strong to hold that hammer like that) and the looks that could kill a dragon.

But I must say that the armor looks neat.

[Meister]

Hehe....he reminds my of a....tank... http://www.darkfallonline.com/community/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif ...as it should do.
But I agree....mayby if the head was a little bigger....

[MoonDawn]

Jeka, your family must have had an incerdibly scary Santa... how did you survive childhood? He looks like he's ready to eat you. Can you ever imagine this guys saying "ho ho ho, any good children here?" and give out presents?

*pets Jeka*

- Murf

[Hitman]

Hahaha, that is true. That must have been an ugly centa you grew up with.

[Claus]

Ok.. the head looks small cause his body is huge.

Our dwarves does not have a human anatomy - they have a dwarven anatomy. They are small but wide http://www.darkfallonline.com/community/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

2000 years working mines 7 days a week, and eating lots of food will do this to you, trust me http://www.darkfallonline.com/community/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Anyways.. we are 95% happy with the dwarf, so there wont be new dwarven (male) concept sketches. The dwarf model may differ slightly from the concept sketch to reflect that last 5% we are not happy with, but we wont spend more time on the male dwarf concept sketch.

Next concept sketch remake is Alfar.. ETA tomorrow or friday...

[Blain]

It is way to square, I understand you are using dwarve anatomy, but make the head match the body.  It is better than before but the squareness looks funny.

[Pumpkin]

I think the dwarf is too wide, I always thought of them being more fat than wide http://www.darkfallonline.com/community/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif :biggrin:

[Jeka]

Moon, remember that I'm an Alfar? ;-)

[Archmage]

I think the dwarf look fine, and proportional.  Remember, he's got a body underneath all that armor.  If you take a second and visualize him without the armor, it looks near-to-perfect. http://www.darkfallonline.com/community/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[olemak]

Badass dwarf looks gooood! Armour reminds me of sci-fi anime power-armour, like something out of Patlabor or Appleseed - way cool! You don't wanna mess with that guy! Three feet tall, and chock full of bad attitude...

[Tsoris]

I think the Dwarf rendering is adequate.

We must stretch our imaginations past what we know as dwarfism and go beyond.  It should not be reminiscent of what we know as a genetic quirk, but rather a completely different race developed either through design or evolution over the span of many years.

The artist has done a fair job.  http://www.darkfallonline.com/community/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Filgolfin]

what i really like is how they incorperated the houses and stuff in the background.  They look pretty neat.

[Mathrim]

I think you should get all the racial descriptions on the page. Now! http://www.darkfallonline.com/community/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[Loki]

my first post....

the dwarf looks ok, although i would like it more with a dark beard and a dark armor. maybe a bloody axe would look more evil!

[Jeka]

Hey Loki, are you from jussi's (faustgfx) forums?

[Lord Ciinder]

Ummm... the shoulders and chest of the armor do not have enough articulation; that suit (specificaly shoulders) would be extremely difficult to fight in.  If dwarves are supposed to be the best smiths, then they need maximum articulation.  Take a look at some pictures of King Henry the VIII's set of armor; THAT was a quality suit of armor.

And PLEASE don't make Alfar ears even bigger; in fact, you should make them smaller.  There's no need to make your most evil race look silly.

[Norderhov]

Hear, hear!

Lord Ciinder has a good point. This is partly what I meant when I said it didn't look real or believable. It just doesn't look as if he can move about in that thing! And why does he have great openings in the armour where you can shove your sword right through?

Back to the old smithy, I say!

-Norderhov

[Pumpkin]

Anybody hear on the Horizonsboard?
IF: Remember the Saris, the concept looked good but they screwed up the model the first time.
I'll wait for the rendered 3d-Model before starting to complain http://www.darkfallonline.com/community/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Lord Ciinder]

Pumpkin, I am very happy that I don't see too close a resemblance to the saris fiasco of HZ's community.  Yeagh, they made the thing better, after a weak or more of everyone telling them how insanely horrible it was.  Comments ranged from nice people like me, who said, "Scrap the whole concept and start over" to slightly less nice like Lorrick, who said, "Fire your entire modelling team; they perform like highschool freshmen with a broke and pirated copy of 3dshop".  Poor AE; they try; they really do.

People here seem a good deal nicer.  Maybee it's just a smaller crowd, so there aren't enough people who actually know anything about articulated plate armor.  All in all, it's a neat sketch; but the armor is ridiculously bad.  The boots and greaves have too many articulations, while the shoulders and chest have too few.  I think the guy who drew this is a great artist, but he needs to study and analyse some good sets of articulated armor before coming through for his second draft.  Now to be a bit more specific...

SHOULDERS

Ok, I know that whole football, shoulder-pads thing looks kinda neat, but it's all wrong.  You're just begging the gods of war to get an axe in the face because you can't move your arms enough.  That design does a variety of things wrong.  First, it makes it harder to bring your arms up for a number of blocks, parries, and chops.  Second, it is very easy to penetrate by coming up, into the plate (which would spell Y-O-U-R-D-E-A-D-N-0-0-B) .  Third, after the inconvenient act of raising one's arm to or past horizontal with the ground, your vision is highly obscurred; this must never happen to a serious warrior.

COLLAR

Sorry, it is kinda cute: the little old dwarf and his metal collar, but it's impractical to an extreme.  First off, it block too much of his sight.  Second, you create a valley right at his neck!  Two pieces of plate coming together in a V make a vulnerable area for almost any high medieval weapon, including a manly sword.  It's just too much pressure on too small and area; it will collapse easily under axe, pick, or sword.  Obviously, the armor your neck must not be a deathtrap.

CHEST

This, however atractive, is also a deficient armor design.  Notice how all the articulation is vertical?  That means the freedom of movement is only vertical.  Big NO NO in battle armor.  You need horizontal freedom, as many offensive and defensive maneuvers involve twisting the torso.  This piece only needs a tad bit of work to look perfectly funtional.  Ideally, you want a good deal of articulation here, but slightly more than what apears now would be adequate in representing affective armor.


ARMS

I'm sorry to say this, because the arms do <look> good, and I do like the <look> of them. &nbsp;However, they're are all wrong. &nbsp;The upper arm area needs way more articulation; pick up a knife or ruler (sword would be the best if you have one), slash around in the air a bit, and take notice how much your shoulder and upper arm move. &nbsp;YOu need at least some articulation there. &nbsp;

The elbow is appauling. &nbsp;You REALLY want you elbow gaurded by articulated armor, NOT MAIL!!! &nbsp;I trust I do not have to explain the tactical value of an elbow, as you gentlemen are well aware of my entire point just by pondering it. &nbsp;You need to either add articulated plates, or AT LEAST extend the bracer along the back of the elbow going straigh about an inch or two; this serves to bring greater protection and, as an extra-added bonus, is a convenient close-quarters/last-ditch weapon.




Alright, that's my constructive criticism. &nbsp;All that is based off the assumption that we are being showed a warrior. &nbsp;If, however, this character is 90% smith, and that armor is just for show or emergencies, then I have no problems with it. &nbsp;Personaly, I kinda see dwarves more as smithies than warriors. &nbsp;So, if that's you're intention, I think it's GREAT! &nbsp;I don't even like small, dwarfish races (probably from my eq days at the beggining of rallos zek; we killed a LOT of little people. &nbsp;I really grew to hate those freakish little bastards, anyways...), so I'd be in agreement that they aren't very great on the battlefield. &nbsp;If, however, this character is supposed to be an elite warrior, well... I advise you contemplate the things I have said at some length, as they may help you.

All of this, of course, is constructive criticism. &nbsp;No offense intended, these are just my observations based off my experience in armored combat and my studies of the subject. &nbsp;Great piece of art, but bad piece of armor. &nbsp;


Ooops, I almost forgot to mention the helmet, or lack thereof. &nbsp;Well, that one's pretty self-explanatory.



The dwarf itself looks a little too big for its hiegth, even if it is a dwarf. &nbsp;But, altogether not too bad for a horrendous genetic misshap. http://www.darkfallonline.com/community/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Meister]

Lord Ciinder, I really liked your post. I learned a great deal from it too. And I see your point....It wouldn

[Norderhov]

With you all the way, my lord http://www.darkfallonline.com/community/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Just one thing: I believe many chest plates have no articulation at all, neither horizontal nor vertical. They must then reach no further down than the waist, of course, so you can bend over. &nbsp;And it must give ample room at the armpits. But the chest plate it self, can be a one-piece, I believe.

Some might say this is fantasy, so why bother with the armour being functional? - Because it has to be believable to be good fantasy, that's why!!

The artist has done an awesome job with the lighting and texturing! But he needs a crack course in armour construction. And I believe Lord Ciinder just has given one...

http://www.darkfallonline.com/community/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

-Norderhov

[Claus]

Great post Ciinder.

You forget one important point tho: Its a magical armor http://www.darkfallonline.com/community/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Blade]

LOL Claus......hehe wont budge with the dwarf huh? :biggrin:

[Lord Ciinder]

Thank you Meister; yes, it is a game. &nbsp;It's not that I expect total realism in a game. &nbsp;I just thought I'd give a little friendly advice. &nbsp;Seeing dwarves are traditionaly the greatest smiths in the world, I thought they would make the perfect armor.

Norderhov, thank you too. &nbsp;You are correct that many breastplates were only one piece. &nbsp;These however were generally shaped like a tanktop, with almost no armpit, neck, or waist protection. &nbsp;They were generally used by lesser nobles and were most popular in reniesaince (sp?) and emperial times, when lords wanted to armor whole armies with the least amount of expense. &nbsp;This sort of breastplate just doesn't strike me a dwarf creation.

As the chest armor in question was articulated and much larger and wider than most single piece breastplates, I thought it needed some horizontal articulation. &nbsp;You will notice &nbsp;the highest chest plate stetches clear from one side to the other; that is too restrictive for a single piece. &nbsp;However, this would be a great graphic as far as a game goes. &nbsp;In fact, it'd be about the best I've ever seen.

Thank you, Claus. &nbsp; I see now the faint, arcane aura surrounding your dwarf, which indicates that his armor is magical in nature. &nbsp;I stand humbly corrected. &nbsp;Obviously, it is the mystic powers which make this otherwise ackward set of articulated plate graceful and powerfull beyond mortal comprehension. &nbsp;And in fact, the plates themselves bend and bow to fit perfectly at times to body of the warrior, no matter how he moves. &nbsp;http://www.darkfallonline.com/community/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

I do think it's a great drawing; and if the model looks just like it, then it will be the best I have ever seen in a game. &nbsp;Now, if you hired me to be your content and art director, well, then you'd have a godly game. http://www.darkfallonline.com/community/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Pumpkin]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Lord Ciinder on 1:48 am on Sep. 21, 2001
I do think it's a great drawing; and if the model looks just like it, then it will be the best I have ever seen in a game. &nbsp;Now, if you hired me to be your content and art director, well, then you'd have a godly game. http://www.darkfallonline.com/community/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif[/b][/quote]

They are looking for some competent employees http://www.darkfallonline.com/community/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[InZaNity]

hmmm competence....that is the key word there...

haa haa...

(kidding)

[Zulor]

Looks more like a war-type race now ;P more suitable for a dwarf I think.

[SethDrone KoC]

jeez zulor workin fast for ur post # eh?
post something competent.

[Zulor]

Actually SethDrone, perhaps you should go look at about 99% of my post, they are very competent and LONG.

[SethDrone KoC]

Actually quite to the contrary there is plenty you can say that qualifies as &nbsp;"feedback" however 'oh yea dood thats cool i want that in the game' is rather dumb and pointless, most people dont enjoy reading spam. &nbsp;I read a whole page of your posts, the entire dev thread was full of replies from you, dont be ignorant, #### go read your replies.
&nbsp; &nbsp; I had no intention of offending you, just telling you it would be nice for you to post something competent and worthwhile to read or post nothing at all. &nbsp;
&nbsp; &nbsp; The whole 2nd paragraph is pretty much moot, appeared pretty blatantly to me you were just working up your posts, you had every thread on my screen replied to with babble. &nbsp;
&nbsp; &nbsp; Your right my inept self cant figure out what feedback is nor can I take it into consideration that you only post on recent, relevant topics. &nbsp;My first post wasnt a flame or even meant to be rude, just simply stating the devs probably want usefull information or maybe an idea...something to help them with what there doing; developing a game.

SethDrone-=KoC=-
btw most of my posts i got when the boards first opened and yes imo most of them contained something worthwhile. &nbsp;yeah hunting season and classes started a couple weeks ago so i havent been around to post as much, whats that got to do with my # of posts or what my feedback in those posts might have been?

[Tanlin]

great job i like the new dwarf look now,and magical armor to boot,good job

[Zulor]

Lol, Oh because you dont approve or like my feedback its not feedback eh? &nbsp;Classes began, what are you taking, how to see things the way you want too 1010? &nbsp;I could care less whether you like my feedback or not. &nbsp;Make reference to some of the first post.. If you don't have something to say nice , DON'T say it at all..and i think your 2 sentences that had nothing to even do with the thread fall into that category of don't say. &nbsp;I understand though, will classes going on you feel the need to post something to continue to keep you posts up http://www.darkfallonline.com/community/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif Atleast my post had something to DO with the thread. &nbsp;And i didnt say that that is a good idea i want that in the game, I said I like it and think it a good picture of what "I" would picture a dwarf as.. THAT IS feedback, whether you view it as that or not. &nbsp;Speaking of IGNORANT, how about you go look up the definition of feedback. &nbsp; I always have, will now, and will continue to provide feedback the way I see fit. &nbsp;If the Dev's approve of it or not is up to them, not you. &nbsp;And if they don't then i'm sure they'll say something or remove my posts. &nbsp;Now about about we stop spamming this board with junk post arguements so it can be used for what its here for. &nbsp;If you have feedback ON THE SUBJECT, post it, if not then leave it alone. &nbsp;If you have something to say TO ME, that doesnt deal with a thread, click on my name and email me and I'll be glad to argue with your ignorant butt all day ;P k?

[Lord Ciinder]

Wow, yall get prettyagitated, pretty quickly. &nbsp;How about you vehemently argue about the dwarf instead. &nbsp;And uhh... I 'd say there is a great deal of things to be said about that picture.

Have a nioce day, gentlemen.

[Bark546]

i hate dwarfs