Sellsword/Bounty Clan

[Ravenith]

By playing Freelancer online in several different servers, i found out that such a clan can indeed exist.
Bound only to money, neutral to everyone else, pledging allegiance to no-one.
Players will pay to get the clan's supreme services. Contracts include:

-Assassination / Vengeance: for a price, a clan member will go and dispatch the idiotic griefer that's been slaughtering you. No hard feelings, just doing our job.

-Protection: one or more members will escort you through a quest or a trading caravan, being paid with a set price or a percentage of the total profit.

-Item retrieval: u need the XXXXX item? For a price, we can get it for you.

And many more on those lines. Of course, strict structure and discipline within the guild is vital.
For those out there who are familiar with the works of R.A. Salvatore, such a clan should work the way Bregan D'Aerthe does.
I know it sounds idealistic, but i believe that no clan would waste time and money fighting a band like this, when they could simply use their services or pay a price for no interference.

Sounds really Alfar- like, but i think it would be better if this clan was neutral to everyone and open for all races and types of players. Crafters and merchants would be as vital as thieves, pirates, knights, wizards and so on.

...Anyone interested? :sly:

[Ackillez]

Sounds very promising.

Well at least parts of it.

-Assassination: definitely an exciting prospect. Only difficult thing I can think about is identifying the target, since there won't be red text hovering above people's heads.

- Caravan escorting: maybe. But sounds a bit dull maybe. Only for goods of really high value.

- Item retrieval: can't see the appeal in this.

Another thing you might want to consider. though, is offering standard mercenary contracts related to warfare, with town defense and assault in particular being very interesting prospects. A small, tight-knit elite team, well disciplined, could be an extremely useful complement to any attacking or defending army.

[Ravenith]

It seems you got the idea. The question is, in such an occasion, what about backstabbing? I mean, ok, clan A pays us X money to defend them against clan B. Then clan B offers 2X. What then? Would you keep to the original contract? Would you tell clan A about the offer and demand a higher pay? Would you betray clan A during the fight, claiming an easy victory for B? There is a lot to be discussed on this. On the one hand, there is short term profit. On the other hand, there is your reputation as dependable and deal-honoring, a real professional. This i think would boost your long term profit.

[Helgeran]

Drizzt :lmao:

[Wedge]

Freelancer was a fun game.

[Corizo]

Then clan B offers 2X. What then?
For this case we're thinking about an extra fee, like "when you pay us a little more, we guarantee you, we won't change sides, no matter how high the other offers are."

[Ackillez]

For this case we're thinking about an extra fee, like "when you pay us a little more, we guarantee you, we won't change sides, no matter how high the other offers are."

Not at all.

When you strike a merc deal, you specify the cost, duration and objectives, in addition to eventual special clauses (can be whatever). Then you stick to the contract and follow through on it. When the duration is expired, the duration can be extended and the contract renegotiated, or you can switch to a new employer. But breaking your word is a very bad idea in the merc business; if you can't be trusted to remain loyal to your employers for the duration of the contract, then you won't get any new contracts later on.

[Spades Felligan]

United Pirates is always open for contracts concerning privateering, naval blockages, ahem "protection", and general naval and land warfare!

[Stealthist]

Meh, I already got this idea, and name...but I might join up with Pinaccle. If I ever decide I don't want to join up with pin any way we could work this out?

[Corizo]

When you strike a merc deal, you specify the cost, duration and objectives, in addition to eventual special clauses (can be whatever). Then you stick to the contract and follow through on it. When the duration is expired, the duration can be extended and the contract renegotiated, or you can switch to a new employer. But breaking your word is a very bad idea in the merc business; if you can't be trusted to remain loyal to your employers for the duration of the contract, then you won't get any new contracts later on.
With the extra fee, the loyal won't change. If you're not ready to pay it, then it will be possible that we nullify the contract cause of some better offers. I'm not talking about backstabbing during the action, I'm talking about cancelling the contract before the whole action takes place. Backstabbing during the action would be really hardcore mercanery business, but I can't deny that could bring up more tension.

Anyway, up to now, it's just still only an idea, not fully thought.

[Ravenith]

Everything depends on the situation. As i said, the example one should follow when running such a guild would be the dark elven organisation from the works of R.A. Salvatore, called Bregan D'Aerthe. Honor and credibility is one thing. Making the wrong enemies is another. Above all, a sellsword guild craves for its own survival.

And i should say that "sellsword" is not exactly the word that fits what i have got in mind. The primary activities of this guild should be mercenary work indeed, but i strongly believe that the guild must have crafting, economic and magical branches to survive. Different departments of the same guild.

We could deal in information, too. It might sound bad, but bribing other clan members and putting spies in some selected spots is crucial.

What thrills me about all this is the mental challenge of creating a powerful force, which however acts behind the scenes. I'd be happy to find people with similar interests and skills as these needed here. If there is some clan that is planning to work this way, i'd be happy to participate.

By the way, does anyone remember the clan "Remalia" led by Kolopaido, in the old L2 c1 bnb server?

[Vikter]

It seems you got the idea. The question is, in such an occasion, what about backstabbing? I mean, ok, clan A pays us X money to defend them against clan B. Then clan B offers 2X. What then? Would you keep to the original contract? Would you tell clan A about the offer and demand a higher pay? Would you betray clan A during the fight, claiming an easy victory for B? There is a lot to be discussed on this. On the one hand, there is short term profit. On the other hand, there is your reputation as dependable and deal-honoring, a real professional. This i think would boost your long term profit.

If you have a history of betraying clients people won't hire you. Simple as that.

[Ravenith]

True. As I said, it dependes on the occasion. Normally you should honor your contracts. But sometimes when you find that by honoring your contract you have too much to lose, you must choose. In that case i believe the guild members should vote on what to do. After all the guild's thesis is profit-oriented. When you find that following your contract will get half the guild slain and get you a strong enemy, you can risk your reputation in the name of minimum loss by withdrawing and giving back the fees, or explaining the situation to the client and asking for a pay rise. Stabbing is always an option, but I referred to it as an extreme solution, a truly hardcore mercenary act, and a dangerous path to choose.

[Atnas]

You should skip the whole ASSASSIN/BOUNTY HUNTER approach and just go with the "We'll go get the item you want for a price", I'd totally use that.

[Joao Magalhaes]

Merc clans can work only if the clan members understand and accept that they will never have as much profit as clans that hold territories or as random PKs. Merc clans have always been the step child of clan concepts.

Maybe someone call pull it right though.

[Airius Droc]

Merc clans can work only if the clan members understand and accept that they will never have as much profit as clans that hold territories or as random PKs. Merc clans have always been the step child of clan concepts.

Maybe someone call pull it right though.


True.

The biggest problem for merc's is that no one really dies. It devalues the willingness of merc's to die in place of people that don't have the guts. Therefore, it's important to redevelop the merc business model to do things that other people are unwilling to do...

Here's a list:

Go hunt down people over long distances. I.E. Bounty Hunt.
Recover Items lost to looters.
Questing.
Guard Duty/Patrol Routes.
Pirate Hunting. I.E. Bounty Hunting by Sea.

If you think about these services, it will be difficult to imagine whole clans obtaining enough income to justify their existence. Instead, it's far more likely that those people who are very good at what they do will command the highest prices (lone wolves or small teams) and they will perform these tasks mainly because they enjoy it, not because they want to be super rich.

Now then, if the game had permadeath, the entire model would flip in it's head. Of course, that would also lead us to other discussions about the negative effects on the "game" of Darkfall.

[Stealthist]

True.

The biggest problem for merc's is that no one really dies. It devalues the willingness of merc's to die in place of people that don't have the guts. Therefore, it's important to redevelop the merc business model to do things that other people are unwilling to do...

Here's a list:

Go hunt down people over long distances. I.E. Bounty Hunt.
Recover Items lost to looters.
Questing.
Guard Duty/Patrol Routes.
Pirate Hunting. I.E. Bounty Hunting by Sea.

If you think about these services, it will be difficult to imagine whole clans obtaining enough income to justify their existence. Instead, it's far more likely that those people who are very good at what they do will command the highest prices (lone wolves or small teams) and they will perform these tasks mainly because they enjoy it, not because they want to be super rich.

Now then, if the game had permadeath, the entire model would flip in it's head. Of course, that would also lead us to other discussions about the negative effects on the "game" of Darkfall.

I plan on running a mercenary branch, that said, stealth and intelligence as well. I will do it and all my companions will do it for fun, for profit off the clan I'll be running it for, if ordered by that guild, or for some small profit in itself.
I'm sure mercenaries can get by if they acquire their funds from killing monsters/players or harvesting some even, but most likely they won't get enough funding as a group/guild considering people won't be willing to pay exorbitant amounts for small or even big jobs.

Seeing as how it will be a branch, I'll hopefully already have equips/weapons waiting for me near the clanstone, and as it's just a branch, we'll be small enough to sustain ourselves, and help sustain our clan while dealing with important issues within the guild. Ex: sneaking into the city the clan we're warring with is in and destroy it overnight or assassinate several important people for their lootz and shiz until they have no city or we have the upper hand.

[no-one]

Bound only to money, neutral to everyone else, pledging allegiance to no-one.


Thank you for your support.

[Airius Droc]

I plan on running a mercenary branch,

Best of luck to you.

[Stealthist]

Best of luck to you.

Hehe, I also said stealth/intelligence. We won't be main mercenary, we'll be political assassination and such, read up the rest of the post.

Also...thanks, and lol!

[Zoidbeerg]

I think political assassinations will be hard since you spawn back :P

Otherwise, intelligence/stealth could be usefull in wars.

[Stealthist]

I think political assassinations will be hard since you spawn back :P

Otherwise, intelligence/stealth could be usefull in wars.

Hehe, it would be more like grief/assassination, like..
1) Kill him uber lots.
2) Kill him while wearing uber gear or while he has lots of harvested materials
3) Take anything precious to him and steal his kills by means of bow snipe...

Things like that for political assassinations, things that will make them quit, take a break, or call off the war. They of course would have to be extreme dickheads for me to to do something like that, but it is just an example. I would probably just kill them at important times from afar, although that's more of just stealth...

[Ackillez]

I think political assassinations will be hard since you spawn back :P

Otherwise, intelligence/stealth could be usefull in wars.

Well, it's well suited for sending a powerful message to the politician; do as we want or face hell.

[Ackillez]

True.

The biggest problem for merc's is that no one really dies. It devalues the willingness of merc's to die in place of people that don't have the guts. Therefore, it's important to redevelop the merc business model to do things that other people are unwilling to do...

Here's a list:

Go hunt down people over long distances. I.E. Bounty Hunt.
Recover Items lost to looters.
Questing.
Guard Duty/Patrol Routes.
Pirate Hunting. I.E. Bounty Hunting by Sea.

If you think about these services, it will be difficult to imagine whole clans obtaining enough income to justify their existence. Instead, it's far more likely that those people who are very good at what they do will command the highest prices (lone wolves or small teams) and they will perform these tasks mainly because they enjoy it, not because they want to be super rich.

Now then, if the game had permadeath, the entire model would flip in it's head. Of course, that would also lead us to other discussions about the negative effects on the "game" of Darkfall.

What you describe is a rather peculiar way of running a merc business though.

The entire idea with a merc clan in an MMO is that you need to be better at killing stuff than other people. If you're planning on making good cash, you want to ensure you're doing important jobs that people can't do themselves because it's too hard. You don't want to do the tasks that people can't be arsed to do themselves, like menial guard duty or questing, because it's never going to pay all that well.

A successful merc group in darkfall will probably have to be several things in order to be successful:

-Fast-reaction and mobile: Mmobility is key. You need to be able to be where you're needed very quickly to fulfill the wishes of the client. People in the clan need to be able and willing to mobilize and move out quickly.

-Small but active: Large entities are generally not as mobile, and besides there'd be more people to pay. For max profit, you want to keep your unit as small as possible. Activity is also key, because people that log in only from time to time will rarely be in the right place at the right time.

-Innovative tacticians/strategists: TO compensate for your small size, you need to be thinking outside the box in order to be victorious. If you don't change your battlefield tactics often enough, enemy commanders will anticipate your moves and kill you with weight of numbers.

-Tight-knit and disciplined: Essential for max combat performance, and execution of the abovementioned innovative tactics.

-Not tied to own city: Unless holding a town of your own is going to give extensive bonuses to combat performance, you don't want to hold one of your own. Defending it is an unnecessary nuisance that can hamper performance in contracts if the unit needs to return home to defend its land. Preferably, you're looking at some sort of contract with a friendly guild, so you can use their city as a base of operations and in return you don't accept contracts against them and help out if the city comes under attack and you're available for duty.

[Ravenith]

I fully understand that. It's really up to the way you want to play the game. Having played as a merchant in other games, i was always afraid of losing my cargo to pirates etc. As a random PKer, the game becomes boring soon (in my oppinion), plus that you are nothing more than a major pain in everyone's backside.
On the other hand, running such a guild as described above is a good way to utilize the role-playing concept of the game to a high level (in my oppinion again, cause people like Leahn lurk around the corner to attack me for what i post...)

[Azash_AT]

Well, it's well suited for sending a powerful message to the politician; do as we want or face hell.

LOL 50 guys standing quietly infront of the target city's gates as a message beats the livig hell out of "OMG some random dude killed our GL and made him respawn back at the clan stone flee flee for our lives!!!!!" I mean seriously.


Assasination!?!?!?!?!? If you find a rube thats dumb enough to pay you for assasinations in game please PM me his name I will sell him several sub continents on the far side of the ocean.

[Ackillez]

LOL 50 guys standing quietly infront of the target city's gates as a message beats the livig hell out of "OMG some random dude killed our GL and made him respawn back at the clan stone flee flee for our lives!!!!!" I mean seriously.
Well, then you need 50 people as opposed to 1 if you're going for assassination, and it's about as subtle as a steam tank.

The goal of poplitical assassination probably isn't to scare the living shit out of an entire clan.

[angelfang]

Assasination!?!?!?!?!? If you find a rube thats dumb enough to pay you for assasinations in game please PM me his name I will sell him several sub continents on the far side of the ocean.

The way I see it, there will generally be two kinds of people who would hire a blade: 1.) the solo player, or a group of friends without a clan, and they need to kill someone powerful who has griefed or somehow offended them and they are too weak to do it themselves and do not wish to join a clan.

2.) a reputable organization that wants the job done anonymously for whatever motives, but without using or even hinting their own name. Now, obviously alts can be used for this, but it would be much more fun and political if assassins could be hired to do the job. They would have to be damn professional and efficient in their trade though.

[alfaroverall]

2.) a reputable organization that wants the job done anonymously for whatever motives, but without using or even hinting their own name. Now, obviously alts can be used for this, but it would be much more fun and political if assassins could be hired to do the job. They would have to be damn professional and efficient in their trade though.
Heh, yet another reason that SRS would undermine something. Mercs would be eliminated in jobs where people want to anonymously do something (assuming that the last name, guild, etc. thing weren't implemented).
steal his kills by means of bow snipe...
Skill points are gained by using the skill, not by actually finishing off the target. Therefore it would only slightly lower his skill gain. It's open loot, so he could take it even if you finished it off.

[Atnas]

This is off-topic, but you are aware that the blizzard quote was from a fake article, right?

[alfaroverall]

This is off-topic, but you are aware that the blizzard quote was from a fake article, right?
Yes.

[Ackillez]

Assasination!?!?!?!?!? If you find a rube thats dumb enough to pay you for assasinations in game please PM me his name I will sell him several sub continents on the far side of the ocean.
On a side note, I know people in EVE that have been paid to perform assassinations. It's not a big market by any means in EVE but there has been cases of it. But then, the game mechanics doesn't actually support it so much in EVE- word on the spacelanes is that bounty hunting is getting a revamp soon but I'm not convinced until it happens.

[alfaroverall]

On a side note, I know people in EVE that have been paid to perform assassinations. It's not a big market by any means in EVE but there has been cases of it. But then, the game mechanics doesn't actually support it so much in EVE- word on the spacelanes is that bounty hunting is getting a revamp soon but I'm not convinced until it happens.
The top several bounties (such as Illegal Alien, who is probably still at the top) are purely RP. People that are either employees or strong associates of CCP and never log onto those characters except for special RP events. Finding where someone is is an absolute nightmare (in general) because the world is so enormous and yet has so many seams. The amount paid for bounties is never really all that much compared to how hard it would be to kill them if you managed. They're still there after you podkill them (although they might not have that T2 BC or some such). So yeah, without permadeath bounty hunting doesn't work very well.

[Ravenith]

So yeah, without permadeath bounty hunting doesn't work very well.

Indeed. Most of my experience in BH situations comes from freelancer, rogue universe. There, you post a bounty in the forum (there is a secial department about contracts). Some people even put a bounty on themselves to add to their gameplay experience:D .
When you get the contract, you kill the target, sometimes more than once, and you get screenshots, which you post in the forum. This is really humiliating, i can tell you.
The problem is that the freelancer servers are not big communities. In Darkfall
the humiliation would not be that great, cause only a small part of the players will know you. Unless you are some badass PKer or Clan Leader, I guess.
On the other hand, permadeth combined with assassination services sounds wicked.

[Rovo]

I think that it is an awsome idea for a clan to play like that. They definatly can survive. Darkfall is probably going to be the best game to do this kinda stuff.

The only problem I see is most people will be in clans, they will already have their escort service or friends to take out griefers. Few will go solo. Unless your going to help in Clan vs. Clan battles.

[Hughb]

Our clan are going to be the loyal mercenaries who will not be bribed, and will do anything you do not want to do yourselves for the right price.
It seems to me that instead of a simple assassination, it would be more worthwhile to hire someone to grief a certain enemy, to stop them from getting around in game, to steal all their things and for them to have no idea who wanted it done to them.

[Azash_AT]

The way I see it, there will generally be two kinds of people who would hire a blade: 1.) the solo player, or a group of friends without a clan, and they need to kill someone powerful who has griefed or somehow offended them and they are too weak to do it themselves and do not wish to join a clan.

This is actualy more of a bounty hunter thing than an assasination. Nobody will care at that point. If these poor folks have been griefed by Lord Whomeever to the point they feel the need to bring in a hired gun "one death" is not going to make it all better.

The only way I see this working is more of a Bounty Hunter scenario. I dont like schmoe bob in clan XYZ. I dont want to go to war with clan XYZ and we have bad relations so any aggression will lead to a war. So I want Schmoe bobs head and axe. I bring in a Bounty Hunter and send him off to bring me back the Axe and Head. That will be rare enough happenstance to insure the BH is one starving mofo hard up for a job.

2.) a reputable organization that wants the job done anonymously for whatever motives, but without using or even hinting their own name. Now, obviously alts can be used for this, but it would be much more fun and political if assassins could be hired to do the job. They would have to be damn professional and efficient in their trade though.

This sounds like a job for mercs. You want to disrupt an enemy clan or distabalize a region without anyone knowing its you. Its going to take a a heck of a lot more than just a single assasin and a single kill in a game of immortals. No a whole clan of mercs moving into the area and pking there black guts out would do the trick nicely.

[Azash_AT]

[QUOTE=Hughb

[Fred The Dread]

Having played a mercenary in a few games (eve being the most succesful) I would love to see being a merc as a profitable "profession".

Not just anyone can be a (good) merc though.

Reputation. This is probably the most important. If your clan is known as a fierce, tactical, and professional clan BEFORE you become a merc clan, you'll be better off than some random clan who starts off as a merc outfit. Earning a good reputation is vital to a merc outfit. Also under this is being trustworthy. Not backing out half way through a contract, not backstabbing a client during a contract, etc. Essentially you are TRULY loyal only to a few things, Your clan, Money, and for however long the contract is for, your client.

Industrial Strength. Being a good merc clan that you are, you need to have excellent logistics. Someone mentioned earlier that mobility will be a big factor, and i couldnt agree more. So your clan is being seiged tomorrow, and you want to make sure you don't lose your city? Who can you get to help you on short notice? A merc clan that can move half way across the "world" to help you on short notice would be very helpful.
Also having crafters, miners, etc, etc will be vital to keep the clan running.

Leadership. This one doesn't really need to be explained, but really any decent clan is going to have good leadership.

Mercs *probably* won't be the "be all, end all" of clans, but they will hopefully make enough of an impact to warrant their use in DF. Think of merc's more as "Shock Troops", there to help out enough to swing a battle one way or the other, harass an enemy, protect a vital resource, etc.

In past games, being a merc was never easy, but it was sure a lot of fun, and i expect nothing less from DF.

[Airius Droc]

When you get the contract, you kill the target, sometimes more than once, and you get screenshots, which you post in the forum. This is really humiliating, i can tell you.

I don't think the Bounty Hunting market will be very big. But I do think that if done correctly, a good merc could provide a service of humiliation to his/her customers.

There's really no reason to think that being a solo merc will be easy. Nor that it will make a huge profit. It's going to be a job. For those few people that "get it" they're going to have to really like what they're doing.

[Leric]

Bah, at this rate there won't be any clans that aren't mercenaries.

[Unknewn]

Another mercenary clan!