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Torin100
07-29-2011, 12:07
There is a class war. It is our class, the rich class, that started the war and were winning it.
So dramatically expressed America's legendary financial guru Warren Buffet in an interview on CNN in May 2005. Much has happened since then, but nothing that disproves the Warren Buffet's views on developments in the U.S.

Behind the battle around a number of billion here or there, there is Warren Buffet's "class war"? In short, it is about the richest twenty majority of U.S. households, the real capitalist class, refusing to further participate in the social expenditure on welfare. They had the appetite whetted by George W. Bush 's tax cuts a decade ago and now becoming stuck in what they regard as a success.

When the Bush tax cuts expired in December 2010 refused the victory of Republicans to reinstate the tax rates that existed before Bush's "reform" and Barack Obama turned down himself as he did in the fight over the new health care reform.

That does not mean that Barack Obama is on the other side of the class war that Buffet talking about, just that he and most Democrats want to use some other method of warfare. The battle is between the Republican camp who refuse to the rich to provide a single cent to the consolidation of public debt and budget deficit and Obama's Democrats who want the rich to contribute a little over a tax increase for households with more than 500,000 dollars a year in income.

-Sorry for the google translation.

http://www.fjardeinternationalen.se/blog/2011/07/29/usa-bankrutt/

Some more info for those that havent realized there's a class war going on -

http://www.cbpp.org/cms/?fa=view&id=3220

Income gaps between very rich and everyone else more than tripled in last three decades.

And last, who did benefit the most from these tax cuts?

The top 1% of earners (making over $620,442) received 38% of the tax cuts. The lower 60% of filers (making less than $67,715) received less than 20% of the total benefit of Bush’s tax policies.

http://georgewashington2.blogspot.com/2011/07/its-simple-tax-cuts-for-middle-class.html

88Chaz88
07-29-2011, 12:10
Americans have no class.

[LoD] EE
07-29-2011, 12:14
Americans have no class.

This coming from the Big Government Loving EU?

Torin100
07-29-2011, 12:15
EE;5080818']This coming from the Big Government Loving EU?

So do you agree there is a class war going on?

88Chaz88
07-29-2011, 12:15
EE;5080818']This coming from the Big Government Loving EU?

Well any class system you guys have is based off of ours in the first place. So yeah.

88Chaz88
07-29-2011, 12:18
So do you agree there is a class war going on?

There isn't a class war going on, classes are so diluted you think that class = rich or poor. That's proof in itself that class doesn't and hasn't mattered in centuries.

Spineless_DoO
07-29-2011, 12:29
Its a war on the constitution at the root of it all.

Issues that face the world at large have become so diluted its almost impossible to expect anyone to meet at one given point on anything. You say class war I say constitution. You say bubbles busting I say constitution. You say taxation I say slavery and again constitution. We have become so fixated on the fast fixing of the product of decades of neglect that we miss the entire picture. Mostly because we have allowed it to appear to be so complex that we can never fix it. There is no class war.

88Chaz88
07-29-2011, 12:31
Its a war on the constitution at the root of it all.

Issues that face the world at large have become so diluted its almost impossible to expect anyone to meet at one given point on anything. You say class war I say constitution. You say bubbles busting I say constitution. You say taxation I say slavery and again constitution. We have become so fixated on the fast fixing of the product of decades of neglect that we miss the entire picture. Mostly because we have allowed it to appear to be so complex that we can never fix it. There is no class war.

What have the issues of the world got anything to do with your constitution?

Torin100
07-29-2011, 12:32
There isn't a class war going on, classes are so diluted you think that class = rich or poor. That's proof in itself that class doesn't and hasn't mattered in centuries.

So there isnt by definition classes in USA? All have the same lifestyle, consumption habits, estates, cars, travel plans, insurances, health care and on and on?

Rich and poor is exactly spot on and the poor population (class) have been the unbenefitted class for many, many years and the tea party movements agenda is to keep it as it is. The rich upper class is becoming more and more rich and the poor population of United States becomes poorer.

88Chaz88
07-29-2011, 12:40
So there isnt by definition classes in USA? All have the same lifestyle, consumption habits, estates, cars, travel plans, insurances, health care and on and on?

Yes.

To illustrate, Bill Gates, one of the richest people in the world, is middle class.

Torin100
07-29-2011, 12:45
There isn't a class war going on, classes are so diluted you think that class = rich or poor. That's proof in itself that class doesn't and hasn't mattered in centuries.

And again -

http://udel.edu/~cmarks/What%20is%20social%20class.htm

What is social class?

Any observer of American society would quickly note that there are large variations in wealth, material possessions, power and authority, and prestige in our society. They would also note differences in access to education, healthcare and leisure. One child in ten lives in poverty in major industrial countries, one in five in the United States. Taken together these differences in resources and outcomes are thought of as the basis of inequality. What is the source of this inequality? Some say it is the result of an unequal distribution of resources, power and authority.

What are resources: money, land, assets – distinction made between wealth – monetary value of all own and income – amount of money brought in through wages, investment, etc.

What is power: ability to be in charge, to rule

What is authority: control, particularly in the face of resistance

Are material interests (money, land, assets, etc.) the only basis of inequality? Status represents another form of inequality – standing, esteem, respect, prestige, may involve physical ability, intelligence, beauty, occupations that are ranked in order of prestige – doctors, corporate lawyers, financial experts … to garbage collectors and janitors.

When sociologists talk of social class, they refer to a group of individuals who occupy a similar position in the economic system of production. Within that system occupation is very important because it provides financial rewards, stability and benefits like healthcare. Are people in similar positions, aware of each other? In broad terms, yes. Get information (cues) by type of job, neighborhood, clothing, cars, etc. Also get information by conversation – topics, style, grammar etc. Can people mislead or be misled? Of course. Is there a point of view specific to social class? Middle class values? Working class values?

How many social classes are there in the United States? Disagreement within the field on both the number and the composition of these classes. Many sociologists suggest five:

Upper Class – Elite

Represent institutional leadership, heads of multinational corporations, foundations, universities

Capitalist elite – owners of lands, stocks and bonds and other assets – wealth derived from what they own

Forbes magazine publishes a list of the 400 wealthiest families in America. In 1997, net worth had to be at least $475 million.Bill Gates, in that year, had net worth pf 39.8 billion. Of all the wealth represented on the Forbes list, more than half is inherited. Newly acquired wealth, nouveau riche, have vast amounts of money but not often accepted into “old money” circles.

Upper Middle Class

Represent scientific and technical knowledge – engineers, accountants, lawyers, architects, university faculty, managers and directors of public and private organizations. Have both high incomes and high social prestige. Well-educated. Difficult to define a “middle class” (i.e. upper middle, middle middle and lower middle) probably the largest class group in the United States – because being middle class is more that just income, about lifestyles and resources, etc.

Lower Middle Class

Clerical-administrative

Provide support for professionals

Engage in data collection., record-keeping

Paralegals.\, bank tellers, sales

Blue-collar workers in skilled trades

Working Class

Craft workers

Laborers in factories

Restaurant workers

Nursing home staff

Repair shops, garages

Delivery services

Poor

Working poor – work full-time at wages below poverty line

Social services

Underclass

Depending on what social class you belong to you benefit more or less from political proposals like Bush tax cuts that benefitted the rich upper class, 1% of the population.

Torin100
07-29-2011, 12:50
Yes.

To illustrate, Bill Gates, one of the richest people in the world, is middle class.

Not by definition. And definetly not when it comes to Bush tax cuts.

It's interesting how poorly educated many americans on this forum is, really amazing.

And when hard facts is presented to you you avoid the facts? Whats wrong with you?

Spineless_DoO
07-29-2011, 12:52
So there isnt by definition classes in USA? All have the same lifestyle, consumption habits, estates, cars, travel plans, insurances, health care and on and on?

Rich and poor is exactly spot on and the poor population (class) have been the unbenefitted class for many, many years and the tea party movements agenda is to keep it as it is. The rich upper class is becoming more and more rich and the poor population of United States becomes poorer.

First let me point out that the "poor" here in the USA are the group that recieve the most benifit. More so then any place else on the map around the world. There is not one country that takes care of the low income like in the USA. What other country will pay for everything even if you have 20 kids and still send them all to colledge?

Second you cant genralise the tea party. The tea party started out as a constitutional grass roots movement fueld by the RP campain. As the election dwindled down and it was clear RP was not going to have much of a chance to win neocon republicans launched from the heart of the neocon movement a media attack. They put there people in the rallies and there faces on the TV sets of millions of people and said "Hey look we are tea party people too!!". The umbrella that covers the tea party is so diverse atm you have Bush repubs on one end and true libraterians on the other. So yes there are some that want things to stay the way they are and there are others who do not. Americans in large know the tea party got highjacked and pay little mind to it anymore. True that are still to many people that fall for the same old tricks but most already understand what happened.

The poor become "more poor" because of unconstitutional printing of central banking. The same result is seen around the world in every country touched by central banking. Large or small it eventualy erodes the middle class and destroys itself in ever case through out history.

88Chaz88
07-29-2011, 12:59
It's interesting how poorly educated many americans on this forum is, really amazing.

Yes it really is. Thankfully I don't fit either parts of your description.


And when hard facts is presented to you you avoid the facts? Whats wrong with you?

If you're expecting me reply instantly after you post then bad luck old chap, I have better things to do with my life.

Also what facts?

Ragnarok Delrhe
07-29-2011, 13:02
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_OovIlu8pQ#t=4m20s

nuff said.

Torin100
07-29-2011, 13:03
First let me point out that the "poor" here in the USA are the group that recieve the most benifit. More so then any place else on the map around the world. There is not one country that takes care of the low income like in the USA. What other country will pay for everything even if you have 20 kids and still send them all to colledge?

Second you cant genralise the tea party. The tea party started out as a constitutional grass roots movement fueld by the RP campain. As the election dwindled down and it was clear RP was not going to have much of a chance to win neocon republicans launched from the heart of the neocon movement a media attack. They put there people in the rallies and there faces on the TV sets of millions of people and said "Hey look we are tea party people too!!". The umbrella that covers the tea party is so diverse atm you have Bush repubs on one end and true libraterians on the other. So yes there are some that want things to stay the way they are and there are others who do not. Americans in large know the tea party got highjacked and pay little mind to it anymore. True that are still to many people that fall for the same old tricks but most already understand what happened.

The poor become "more poor" because of unconstitutional printing of central banking. The same result is seen around the world in every country touched by central banking. Large or small it eventualy erodes the middle class and destroys itself in ever case through out history.

Bush tax cuts was ideologically correct for republicans and had a major impact on the rich/poor classes of USA.

USA need more political parties then the 2 rightwing parties we can see today, nothing will change otherwise. If Obama have almost the same politic as republicans, just a little more taxes for the filthy rich how make a change?

Torin100
07-29-2011, 13:08
Yes it really is. Thankfully I don't fit either parts of your description.

If you're expecting me reply instantly after you post then bad luck old chap, I have better things to do with my life.

Also what facts?

Claiming Bill Gates is middle class make you fit right in.

What hard fact consequences Bush tax cuts had to the american social class system. What social class took the major part of those tax cuts? Answer - 1% of the population, the already filthy rich.

88Chaz88
07-29-2011, 13:14
Claiming Bill Gates is middle class make you fit right in.

What hard fact consequences Bush tax cuts had to the american social class system. What social class took the major part of those tax cuts? Answer - 1% of the population, the already filthy rich.

Perhaps you should look at facts. Rich is not a class, and I'm not American.

Spineless_DoO
07-29-2011, 13:17
Bush tax cuts was ideologically correct for republicans and had a major impact on the rich/poor classes of USA.

USA need more political parties then the 2 rightwing parties we can see today, nothing will change otherwise. If Obama have almost the same politic as republicans, just a little more taxes for the filthy rich how make a change?

Its not about the party. Its about the governing document. Its about practice of violating that document and the oath they take to it and the people they govern. There has to be limits on what people elected can do. The constitution set those limits. It provided the privilages to the governing bodies. Not rights privilages. Do people realy think Obama would try half the shit he does today 60 years ago? He would have never made it into any office.

How about we actualy put these people on trial. When there is a penalty for your actions you think twice about taking those actions. Without enforcing the constitution you can have 40 parties it doesnt matter. They will still do what ever they want.

Torin100
07-29-2011, 13:44
Perhaps you should look at facts. Rich is not a class, and I'm not American.


I do that but most americans writing on these forums dont cause the facts dont back all the BS they spew on this forums.

Rich americans fit into these social classes -

Upper Class – Elite

Represent institutional leadership, heads of multinational corporations, foundations, universities

Capitalist elite – owners of lands, stocks and bonds and other assets – wealth derived from what they own

Forbes magazine publishes a list of the 400 wealthiest families in America. In 1997, net worth had to be at least $475 million.Bill Gates, in that year, had net worth pf 39.8 billion. Of all the wealth represented on the Forbes list, more than half is inherited. Newly acquired wealth, nouveau riche, have vast amounts of money but not often accepted into “old money” circles.

Upper Middle Class

Represent scientific and technical knowledge – engineers, accountants, lawyers, architects, university faculty, managers and directors of public and private organizations. Have both high incomes and high social prestige. Well-educated. Difficult to define a “middle class” (i.e. upper middle, middle middle and lower middle) probably the largest class group in the United States – because being middle class is more that just income, about lifestyles and resources, etc.

Torin100
07-29-2011, 13:46
Its not about the party. Its about the governing document. Its about practice of violating that document and the oath they take to it and the people they govern. There has to be limits on what people elected can do. The constitution set those limits. It provided the privilages to the governing bodies. Not rights privilages. Do people realy think Obama would try half the shit he does today 60 years ago? He would have never made it into any office.

How about we actualy put these people on trial. When there is a penalty for your actions you think twice about taking those actions. Without enforcing the constitution you can have 40 parties it doesnt matter. They will still do what ever they want.

If Obama had full control there would be no discussion between democrates and republicans today.

With a leftwing party in full control we would see a different suggestion to what amount taxes would be raised to. Most likely alot more taxes for the ones that benefitted the most out of Bush taxcuts.