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tk123
11-27-2010, 23:49
Hey guys i was just thinking of ways to improve DF like reducing the grind , while keeping character progression and i just came up with an idea.

1) Make it so you only have to level the Magic trees (lesser magic greater magic archery melee) And not have to level spells, However make it so it takes a good 1week of grinding to cap out a Magic tree and archery/melee. This would make it so everybody is viable after a short 2 months of grinding. this would definatly attract new players and make the grind so much more manageable for everybody. (viable because noobs have all the spells they need)

Now this would drastically reduce character progression (as you could cap out in 2 months) then everyone would probably be bored because you cant progress anymore, Well i thought of a soultion that fits to this.

Make maximum stats like 3 to 4 times higher, and make it 2 times faster to get. this would make it so progression is still there and will be for a very long time, and it will be more rewarding to veterans who actually played the game for a long time, And #1(1st paragraph) will make it so noobie players actually have a chance at PVPing because they have what they need (just lower stats) possibly 400 hp while a vet has 1k, But he still has a chance because he has the same skills as the vet and it will really be "skill based". These two things would make Noobies viable quick, While the veteran still has an edge over them (as it should be) But the noobie (2months vs 2 years) can win if he is better. And progression will be nearly never-ending also because of how high your stats can go. I think this would Make this game so much more attractive to new players, while keeping it fresh and rewarding for veterans. This i really think would make this game have way more customers, way more fun, and way less of a grind.

The stat grind will be fun because you still have character progression, But you wont NEED to grind it because you will gain it doing whatever you want anyways. anyways this is Just an idea and i Honestly think this would completely "fix" Grind problem, While Keeping character progression.

Dyuuk
11-27-2010, 23:56
Or don't change anything except making it way easier to get to 50 skill/spell, keeping the progression curve after that.

tk123
11-28-2010, 00:03
Or don't change anything except making it way easier to get to 50 skill/spell, keeping the progression curve after that.

1-50 skill is like 10% of the time spent anyways skilling up a spell, so it wouldnt really fix anything except reduce the time you need to spend by like 5%. which will still mean you need 6 months to even have a little chance vs a vet.

Dyuuk
11-28-2010, 00:13
You are pretty competitive if you have all the needed spells at 50+...

tk123
11-28-2010, 00:35
then why does it take 8+months to get a "good" char, having 50 in your spells your still going to get stomped by people who have 100, which is why so many people try this game and then quit they dont want to grind for a year just to have a good character.:bang:

I just searched your posts to see if your a troll or not and clearly you are because i just found this

"After playing probably 500 hours total, efficiently, and still not being able to even stand a chance in solo pvp, I've decided to put DF on the shelf. GG av."

posted by you... you completely contradict yourself in this post by what you are saying here so im just going to assume your trolling.

Dyuuk
11-28-2010, 00:59
Getting all useful spells to 50/75+ IS all you need to be competitive and IS currently NOT easy considering there are so many you need in so many different schools.

DeManiac
11-28-2010, 01:42
Or, one could make the progression in each skill something other then pure effectiveness.
For example, the way Veteran Archer works, reducing the amount of stamina each shot cost.


If you run, you can run fast, but you can't run far.
By running a few times you can run further.


Same thing could be applied to most things, casting spells you are unfamiliar with, would cost more stamina / mana.
However, the effectiveness what you do could be as effective as someone that could do it all day long.


That system would go a long way towards making things "easier".


The same thing could be applied to magic schools, making them available for everyone at all times, but using them would make you able to use them more.


A newbie could use Spell Reflection from Arcane 100, however, it would most likely take more then his full manapool to use it.
And casting spells that require so much mana would not be an efficient way to level magic.
Instead you would start with mana missile like you do now, in order to train yourself at casting spells.


With this system, everything could be available at all times.
Casting a spell from Arcane would train your Lesser, Greater and Spellchanting.


The more of the current requirement that you lack, the higher manacost it would be.
Each point missing could be 1% higher mana cost. And going from 1 - 100 would reduce the manacost by 100%.

Casting Spell Reflect with only 1 in lesser magic would thus cost you.
Current Spellreflect mana cost + 100% + 100% + 75% + 25% + 50% = 4.5x the current mana cost of spellreflect.
And the cooldown could be affected similar, you getting a 3.5x longer cooldown.

You could even take it so far that each of those multiplied eachother.
say 40 manacost * 2, * 2 * 1,75 * 1,25 * 1,5 = 525 mana cost.

Which would be impossible to use, but just getting 50 in lesser magic, would reduce it by 175 mana cost. And further you would go.


And the same could be done for each action performed, making it such an effort to do something you would be unable to do now, that you would rarely do it. But on the other hand, you would be able to do it.

Xathian
11-28-2010, 01:44
then why does it take 8+months to get a "good" char, having 50 in your spells your still going to get stomped by people who have 100, which is why so many people try this game and then quit they dont want to grind for a year just to have a good character.:bang:



It doesn't at all
I managed to get a pretty fcking good new character in about a month
although i did have the gold on hand to use

tk123
11-28-2010, 02:18
It doesn't at all
I managed to get a pretty fcking good new character in about a month
although i did have the gold on hand to use

but is it enough to hang with people that have 100 on each of their spells? people dont want to play because they know they have to grind their a$$es off, If you made it like i said a shorter grind with the magic schools only being the deciding factor for the entire tree it would cut the grind down by 4/5ths, While being a very easy simple fix. This would not only attract new players but instead of grinding all the time you could spend your time doing what you want to do. Character progression would still be in place because of your stats, so that way character progression wouldnt be grinding but rather playing doing what you want to do. All in all this would make this game so much more attractive for new players coming in, And the vets would still have their advantage from having double or triple stats than somebody who has only been playing 2 months. (and also gear / actual SKILL / game knowledge) over them.

Dyuuk
11-28-2010, 02:40
Making it easier to get CAPPED is not the way to ease the grind, there is no difference between a 75 spell and a 99.9 spell, making it easier to get to 75, or atleast 50 is all change we need without making everyone having everything surging.

Epelein
11-28-2010, 03:01
Hey guys i was just thinking of ways to improve DF like reducing the grind , while keeping character progression and i just came up with an idea.

1) Make it so you only have to level the Magic trees (lesser magic greater magic archery melee) And not have to level spells, However make it so it takes a good 1week of grinding to cap out a Magic tree and archery/melee. This would make it so everybody is viable after a short 2 months of grinding. this would definatly attract new players and make the grind so much more manageable for everybody. (viable because noobs have all the spells they need)

Now this would drastically reduce character progression (as you could cap out in 2 months) then everyone would probably be bored because you cant progress anymore, Well i thought of a soultion that fits to this.

Make maximum stats like 3 to 4 times higher, and make it 2 times faster to get. this would make it so progression is still there and will be for a very long time, and it will be more rewarding to veterans who actually played the game for a long time, And #1(1st paragraph) will make it so noobie players actually have a chance at PVPing because they have what they need (just lower stats) possibly 400 hp while a vet has 1k, But he still has a chance because he has the same skills as the vet and it will really be "skill based". These two things would make Noobies viable quick, While the veteran still has an edge over them (as it should be) But the noobie (2months vs 2 years) can win if he is better. And progression will be nearly never-ending also because of how high your stats can go. I think this would Make this game so much more attractive to new players, while keeping it fresh and rewarding for veterans. This i really think would make this game have way more customers, way more fun, and way less of a grind.

The stat grind will be fun because you still have character progression, But you wont NEED to grind it because you will gain it doing whatever you want anyways. anyways this is Just an idea and i Honestly think this would completely "fix" Grind problem, While Keeping character progression.

i read the half of this and you're right.
I'm happy to see someone in these forums who's not clueless.

now I give u an hint.
progression & working class. isn't that just pure love?

Kimoshu
11-28-2010, 03:05
Something myself and others have proposed to maintain long-term progression which is a great thing to have long term goals to max out your character while lowering the time required to become viable, this is a quote from another thread talking about this kind of thing:


I actually love that DF has a long character development to get max, what I hate is that the grind to be viable is too long. This is why an idea I and others have proposed is to rework the game's skills/stats effects to the same way the HP formula was tweaked.

Example: Say that melee mastery adds 12 damage at max level, right now it adds 1 damage every 8-9 levels in a linear fashion all the way up to 100; Change it so that by the time you reach 50 in the skill you've gained 9 damage(75% of the total effect), by level 75 you've gained 10.5-11 damage(~90%) and getting it to 100 will give you 1 more damage extra.

If the damage/effect of all skills, spells & stats was changed to this kind of formula; Passive abilities such as intensifies, melee mastery and veteran archer given the 3x skill gains from PvE(Currently they DO NOT, only primary skills/spell schools do); And lastly double the base gains of all buffs/debuffs/heals/utility spells then this would effectively remove the grind to be viable and in 3-4 months of more casual play(~15-20hrs a week leveling) you could have your skills and spells to a reasonable level to be viable against end-game characters and 5-6 months to be competitive.

Not only does that remove the grind of the game but it also maintains the long-term character development so veterans maintain their earned advantage and newer players can catch up in a reasonable amount of time. This solution IMO would solve all grind debates and is what I hope the devs can come to see as the perfect solution to both sides of the debate.

-Andrew

Epelein
11-28-2010, 03:11
Ye I'm in with that.

But I know that everyone would progress even when it wouldn't have any effect on PVP at all.

Hell the poeple would progress to 1k each stat even if 100-1000 would give them just 1 hp.

Basically poeple would even do it just for the number in their statroll.
That's MMORPG

Cool Story
11-28-2010, 03:17
hey guys i was just thinking of ways to improve df like reducing the grind , while keeping character progression and i just came up with an idea.

1) make it so you only have to level the magic trees (lesser magic greater magic archery melee) and not have to level spells, however make it so it takes a good 1week of grinding to cap out a magic tree and archery/melee. This would make it so everybody is viable after a short 2 months of grinding. This would definatly attract new players and make the grind so much more manageable for everybody. (viable because noobs have all the spells they need)

now this would drastically reduce character progression (as you could cap out in 2 months) then everyone would probably be bored because you cant progress anymore, well i thought of a soultion that fits to this.

Make maximum stats like 3 to 4 times higher, and make it 2 times faster to get. This would make it so progression is still there and will be for a very long time, and it will be more rewarding to veterans who actually played the game for a long time, and #1(1st paragraph) will make it so noobie players actually have a chance at pvping because they have what they need (just lower stats) possibly 400 hp while a vet has 1k, but he still has a chance because he has the same skills as the vet and it will really be "skill based". These two things would make noobies viable quick, while the veteran still has an edge over them (as it should be) but the noobie (2months vs 2 years) can win if he is better. And progression will be nearly never-ending also because of how high your stats can go. I think this would make this game so much more attractive to new players, while keeping it fresh and rewarding for veterans. This i really think would make this game have way more customers, way more fun, and way less of a grind.

The stat grind will be fun because you still have character progression, but you wont need to grind it because you will gain it doing whatever you want anyways. Anyways this is just an idea and i honestly think this would completely "fix" grind problem, while keeping character progression.

+1