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Probablykevin
10-30-2010, 04:32
I enjoy games that reward players for formulating strategies and utilizing each others' strengths and weaknesses. How far does strategy go in Darkfall? Are people just running around and stabbing or zapping the nearest moving object, or do groups take the time to plan their attack and invent new ways to use the game mechanics to their advantage?

Thanks in advance for any insight!

DeManiac
10-30-2010, 04:53
Depends totally on the type of players you roll with.
Some do, others don't.

Tactic alter the outcome of a battle as much as you make it do.
However, most of the time, it's roaming around finding players to kill.
Once you find one, you don't apply much of a strategy, you attack and due to the element of surprise you force them on the defensive.

In sieges there are tactics, you have to destroy walls, can use siege weapons, move troups to different defensive locations.
Staying together and keeping track of your own has big impact on the outcome.


Thinking smart and moving away in the right time, going on the defensive to get assistance from your team mates, combat healing and similar things.
Those are all tactics that are required for you to be successfull.

So.
Summary:
If you wish to be successfull, and you ain't just doing skirmishes and small scale pvp, then you will utilize strategies, the smaller battles the less tactics.
You don't really have time to work out these splendid tactics in the heat of the battle now do you? :)

CerealKillers
10-30-2010, 06:15
this game has the most potential for use of strategy of any fps, mmo, or any other game ive ever played

AND

once the strategy is decided on, you still might fail even if you have the perfect strategy if you do not execute it well showing player skill

game is a competitive pvpers dream, only thing that sucked was the grind but that is currently being adressed

large battles are almost always won first and foremost by strategy

you can win heavily outnumbered with a precise bait and ambush or decoy and flank etc....


tldr: how much strategy and cooperation? sky is the limit

Realbigdeal22
10-30-2010, 07:21
Just like Maniac said.

I joined the biggest clan in DF and they really need tabard or something so you can reconize your own teamates. Scanning all players one by one to finally find a red is annoying. Tabard should cost money tho so large clan become more expensive to manage.

You should do like me. Join a large clan to advance fast. Once you become strong enough to solo, join a small clan.
Before my 1 month ended, i joined a small clan of 12 members with 4 other alliance of small clans. Its more fun that way since you get to know each others. You also feel noticed during pvp instead of just being there and you feel much more useful both on vents and in the small team. Also, the group is never full so you dont need to scan anyone.

shook
10-30-2010, 07:36
There are no limits to the amount of teamwork you can use in darkfall, every fight is different and there are many thing no one has done before, the sky is the limit. The larger the fights in darkfall the more important team work and strategy becomes.

Shaoz
10-30-2010, 09:13
There are no limits to the amount of teamwork you can use in darkfall, every fight is different and there are many thing no one has done before, the sky is the limit. The larger the fights in darkfall the more important team work and strategy becomes.

The larger the fights the more lag and zerg oriented play. Zerg meaning the only strategy is rushing your opponent since you will not be able to successfully command your entire army with mad lag (all large sieges).

I can see strategy working in smaller battles, but large ones definitely not... until lag is fixed.

BTW how are battles now since the expansion?

MaxiHori
10-30-2010, 10:12
this game has the most potential for use of strategy of any fps, mmo, or any other game ive ever played


both 2 of them?????

ahahah seriously.... you cannot even try to compare the strategy in this game with the strategy that you need on other mmorpgs.

did you ever seen an olimpic match on guild wars?

a relic raid on dark age of camelot?

what's the point in darkfall? the only strategy that you have is to attack the people that are grinding, and you name it pvp!


to have a strategy you need players with almost the same skills/equip,
otherwise nothing is gonna work

Niburu
10-30-2010, 13:56
In large scale combat with building kingdoms strategy becomes less and less important because of missing travel time, protections,...


In group fights however strategy and individual skill is very important

shook
10-30-2010, 16:03
The larger the fights the more lag and zerg oriented play. Zerg meaning the only strategy is rushing your opponent since you will not be able to successfully command your entire army with mad lag (all large sieges).

I can see strategy working in smaller battles, but large ones definitely not... until lag is fixed.

BTW how are battles now since the expansion?

Just because your clan and you were too awful to do anything but zerg people doesn't mean it takes skill. Please give me one example where all that was needed to win was a zerg change because you cannot command the whole army.

You prove my point, you get what you put into this game, there is no limit to the amount of team work and strategy you can implemented and it becomes harder to pull off with large numbers but the rewards are greater. Scrubs like you that put in no effort and are used to everything on a silver platter will get owned and quit.

MaxiHori
10-30-2010, 18:31
Just because your clan and you were too awful to do anything but zerg people doesn't mean it takes skill. Please give me one example where all that was needed to win was a zerg change because you cannot command the whole army.

You prove my point, you get what you put into this game, there is no limit to the amount of team work and strategy you can implemented and it becomes harder to pull off with large numbers but the rewards are greater. Scrubs like you that put in no effort and are used to everything on a silver platter will get owned and quit.

every player IS THE SAME, same skills, same stats, same equip.

a strategy is something like "kill the healer first", "interrupt the caster", "slow the tanks", etc.... etc...

df is pretty like UO, there werent any big group strategy....

the only strategy were into understand the enemies skills by his spells/equip

Demise1
10-30-2010, 18:35
every player IS THE SAME, same skills, same stats, same equip.

a strategy is something like "kill the healer first", "interrupt the caster", "slow the tanks", etc.... etc...

df is pretty like UO, there werent any big group strategy....

the only strategy were into understand the enemies skills by his spells/equip

Well obviously, you've never played the game.

MaxiHori
10-30-2010, 19:32
Well obviously, you've never played the game.

so give me an example of strategy that you once used in this game.

Mister T
10-30-2010, 19:42
The larger the fights the more lag and zerg oriented play. Zerg meaning the only strategy is rushing your opponent since you will not be able to successfully command your entire army with mad lag (all large sieges).

I can see strategy working in smaller battles, but large ones definitely not... until lag is fixed.

BTW how are battles now since the expansion?


every player IS THE SAME, same skills, same stats, same equip.

a strategy is something like "kill the healer first", "interrupt the caster", "slow the tanks", etc.... etc...

df is pretty like UO, there werent any big group strategy....

the only strategy were into understand the enemies skills by his spells/equip

err have u even played the game?????? seriously??? no?

ever been to any sieges? no?

Tactics are the biggest deciding factor in darkfall pvp.

>This is whya group of 20 positioned well (like in a tunnel with only one enterance/exit creating a choke point) can easily kill 3-4x their numbers

>This is why splitting your force and flanking enemies from behind with cavalry can decimate enemy forces.

>This is why have a 2 man bait groups draw 10 people out of cities to be ambushed by 4 hiding in bushes outside

>This is why Supreme Generals and Siege leaders are focus fired down first

>This is why tactical retreats at the right time (making your enemy chase after you bloodthirstedly) can completely change around fights.

the list goes on.

basically - if you dont have a fucking clue what your talking about gtf out of these forums and stop putting off new players.

Demise1
10-30-2010, 19:56
so give me an example of strategy that you once used in this game.

Coordinating field aoes, 90/100s, blinds, etc. Flanking(mounted flanks as well, see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ocQuUK0PBE&feature=related), pincering, ambushing, multi-prong attacks(Ex: boat shooting down a bindstone while having a ground army attack the city). Getting terrain advantages(Ex: retreating to high ground). The list goes on.

MaxiHori
10-30-2010, 20:25
>group of 20 positioned well (like in a tunnel with only one enterance/exit creating a choke point) can easily kill 3-4x their numbers

>This is why have a 2 man bait groups draw 10 people out of cities to be ambushed by 4 hiding in bushes outside

>This is why Supreme Generals and Siege leaders are focus fired down first

>This is why tactical retreats at the right time (making your enemy chase after you bloodthirstedly) can completely change around fights.
so this is strategy to you?????

have you ever played any other mmorpg?????

MaxiHori
10-30-2010, 20:31
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ocQuUK0PBE&feature=related

that's called zerging, it's just a bunch of people that zerg on a horse and when they reach the enemy they keep clicking the same key to kill everone.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkl_fAjmLmA
random zerg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrChzu3pCpU&feature=related
group pvp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvzqmWCSy-s
this game is 10 years old guys.... and it still have more players than this one,
why dont you stop pretending that this game is complete?
complains are needed to make a games better!

Kaiuyca
10-30-2010, 20:46
every player IS THE SAME, same skills, same stats, same equip.

a strategy is something like "kill the healer first", "interrupt the caster", "slow the tanks", etc.... etc...

df is pretty like UO, there werent any big group strategy....

the only strategy were into understand the enemies skills by his spells/equip


Um... things like "kill the healer" "slow the tanks" etc etc are not strategy. In a large group fight you shouldn't even have to be told to kill healers/casters and kite the meleers, you just do it. Those are common sense. Those tactics are so basic its not even considered part of strategy, thats why nobody else mentioned them.




>This is whya group of 20 positioned well (like in a tunnel with only one enterance/exit creating a choke point) can easily kill 3-4x their numbers

>This is why splitting your force and flanking enemies from behind with cavalry can decimate enemy forces.

>This is why have a 2 man bait groups draw 10 people out of cities to be ambushed by 4 hiding in bushes outside

>This is why Supreme Generals and Siege leaders are focus fired down first

>This is why tactical retreats at the right time (making your enemy chase after you bloodthirstedly) can completely change around fights.



The things he mentioned (flanking, ambush, positioning, tactical retreats, focusing down SupremeGenerals) are much more complex than a simple "kill healers". Those require far more teamwork and coordination than simply "slow the tanks".

But even those are still just tactics. Real strategy is politics and large scale long term decision making: choosing the right allies, the right enemies, sieging the right city at the right time, asset destruction, espionage, etc, etc. That is strategy, not fucking "OMG KILL THE HEALERS NOW".

Kaiuyca
10-30-2010, 20:48
that's called zerging, it's just a bunch of people that zerg on a horse and when they reach the enemy they keep clicking the same key to kill everone.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkl_fAjmLmA
random zerg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrChzu3pCpU&feature=related
group pvp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvzqmWCSy-s
this game is 10 years old guys.... and it still have more players than this one,
why dont you stop pretending that this game is complete?
complains are needed to make a games better!

LOL i guess you really don't play the game after all, you're just here to advertise DAOC.

MaxiHori
10-30-2010, 21:00
Um... things like "kill the healer" "slow the tanks" etc etc are not strategy. In a large group fight you shouldn't even have to be told to kill healers/casters and kite the meleers, you just do it. Those are common sense. Those tactics are so basic its not even considered part of strategy, thats why nobody else mentioned them.

The things he mentioned (flanking, ambush, positioning, tactical retreats, focusing down SupremeGenerals) are much more complex than a simple "kill healers". Those require far more teamwork and coordination than simply "slow the tanks".

ok let's say put it in this way: other mmorps already have EVERYTHING that you mentioned.

and "killing healers" is not something in common sense,
first of all cause you dont have any healers, there are no class here, and no skillscap(I hope that they will solve things with the prestige stuff)

and in the other mmorpgs, you cant attack an healer if you have someone defending him.
and a caster need to choose between damaging another dps(they have low life so they can be killed faster), interrupting an healer(but then another caster will interrupt you), slower a tank(or they will reach you in close combat).
so it's not just "common sense"

MaxiHori
10-30-2010, 21:03
LOL i guess you really don't play the game after all, you're just here to advertise DAOC.

I just needed an example of a complete game,

you can take the guild wars strategy if you prefer it.

im here cause I like this game.

but the fact that I like it doesnt mean that everything is perfect.

my favourite game was UO and I think that this one has the potencial to be great cause they have a lot in common.

Shaoz
10-30-2010, 21:04
Just because your clan and you were too awful to do anything but zerg people doesn't mean it takes skill. Please give me one example where all that was needed to win was a zerg change because you cannot command the whole army.

You prove my point, you get what you put into this game, there is no limit to the amount of team work and strategy you can implemented and it becomes harder to pull off with large numbers but the rewards are greater. Scrubs like you that put in no effort and are used to everything on a silver platter will get owned and quit.

Did you get offended by my rational, intelligent post?

I assume you mean zerg charge, not change because that doesn't make any sense lol.

Anyway I wasn't saying strategy wouldn't work, its much harder to pull off with the lag implemented in large battles, and by large I mean LARGE not your 30v30 bull#@$@ (AKA you cannot successfuly DO ANYTHING with the lag and your numbers are 2848208420 more than the enemy). Keep getting mad though man, it shows your immaturity and inexperience in arguing/explaining thoughts.

There is a common trend amongst all forums I post on, and that is people just don't read the post and make up whatever the @$#@ they want just to argue. GTFO troll.

Demise1
10-30-2010, 21:05
that's called zerging, it's just a bunch of people that zerg on a horse and when they reach the enemy they keep clicking the same key to kill everone.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkl_fAjmLmA
random zerg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrChzu3pCpU&feature=related
group pvp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvzqmWCSy-s
this game is 10 years old guys.... and it still have more players than this one,
why dont you stop pretending that this game is complete?
complains are needed to make a games better!

You dumb shit, we were outnumbered in that fight approximately 30v60. The reason we won the fight was because we mount flanked them. If you don't like darkfall's gameplay then Gtfo of darkfall forums you piece of shit.

MaxiHori
10-30-2010, 21:06
LOL i guess you really don't play the game after all, you're just here to advertise DAOC.

forthermore im here cause I SPENT A LOT OF MONEY, cause of this:

Originally Posted by Tasos lambouras(Associate Producer, Darkfall)
If a PvP game has levels, the higher levels typically have an impossible advantage so you have to get to maximum level just to be viable and to hope for an even playing field. In Darkfall everyone is viable and can PvP from day one.

Banka plixz
10-30-2010, 21:07
every player IS THE SAME, same skills, same stats, same equip.

a strategy is something like "kill the healer first", "interrupt the caster", "slow the tanks", etc.... etc...

df is pretty like UO, there werent any big group strategy....

the only strategy were into understand the enemies skills by his spells/equip

Dont talk when you have no idea what you are talking about, please. it just makes you look terrible...

MaxiHori
10-30-2010, 21:12
You dumb shit, we were outnumbered in that fight approximately 30v60. The reason we won the fight was because we mount flanked them. If you don't like darkfall's gameplay then Gtfo of darkfall forums you piece of shit.

first of all, I payed for this game, so I will stay here.

and second, 60 people died cause you flanked them,
so 60 people died cause you did just 1 good thing.
it doesnt take a lot of strategy

Mister T
10-30-2010, 21:22
Mods need to get banning these people who dont have a clue/advertising other games/ask questions and dont listen to answers...

Lets go to guildwars since i am a 4-5 year vet and top 50 caller

I'd call spikes on important targets...
if a mesmer was giving us a hard time - i'd spike him.
if a warrior was giving our monks a hard time - i'd lineback him
if we were at 1min 45 and the enemy flagger came in - i'd snare/spike him

more on the strat side you could play balanced... or split.. or heroway or hexway... or lameway.... blahblahblah loadsa meta game.

In darkfall - a full frontal assult is never as good as a thought out strat.
Flanking.... Mercs.... Chokepointing... Taking high ground... like i said the list is endless.

example (say a 30v50)

2 Groups of 10 Mages defend a tunnel.
the tunnel is only 4 people wide
The enemy zerg does a full frontal assult through the tunnel
They get trapped in wall of forces and the mages focus fire with field AoEs(Eg volcano) and LAoEs (Eg Exploding Charge)
The enemy dies 4 by 4 as they try to push through.

Eventually (after taking heavy casulties) they start to push through the defence.

At this time the Destroyer Spec Group charges in from behind - making use of the narrow space and their heavy gear to decimate the unexpecting enemies as they try and heal (with their staves out - triggering the 40% increase in dmg vs mages).

With no where to run the once large zerg force rolls over and dies.

This has happend many times and will happen many more times. Guilds with good strategy and tactics win against the odds due to good planning and leadership.

I honestly dont understand what more strategy you could possibly want? (please tell me what is lacking ?)

MaxiHori
10-30-2010, 21:23
Dont talk when you have no idea what you are talking about, please. it just makes you look terrible...

im just saying that this game has his good points, but strategy is not one of them.

the strange thing is that this game with a skillcap can have the best solo pvp ever,
but instead of that you only have group-pvp and this game doesnt give you anything to play as a group.

if you HAVE to pvp as a group... there are thousands of other mmorpgs far better than this one to do that!

I think that they need to implement a system that allows you to solo-pvp and then maybe you can give a meaning to the group-pvp.

you just run as a group cause you always die by yourself.

knowing how to play in solo and knowing how to play in group are 2 really different things, you can be pro in one and terrible in the other one.
but in this game they arent very different

Shaoz
10-30-2010, 21:26
Maxi stop trolling, Strategy is important in every game.... my only point here is that LAG stops strategy from being successful. Lag occurs in larger battles, not 10v10, 4v10, 30v30, etc. It happens in the large alliance sieges and that is what I am talking about here and is exactly what I said in my first post in this thread. Of course people rage at nothing and post replies which are rage induced and ignorant before reading an entire post and thinking about it.

Mister T
10-30-2010, 21:28
Mods need to get banning these people who dont have a clue/advertising other games/ask questions and dont listen to answers...

Lets go to guildwars since i am a 4-5 year vet and top 50 caller

I'd call spikes on important targets...
if a mesmer was giving us a hard time - i'd spike him.
if a warrior was giving our monks a hard time - i'd lineback him
if we were at 1min 45 and the enemy flagger came in - i'd snare/spike him

more on the strat side you could play balanced... or split.. or heroway or hexway... or lameway.... blahblahblah loadsa meta game.

In darkfall - a full frontal assult is never as good as a thought out strat.
Flanking.... Mercs.... Chokepointing... Taking high ground... like i said the list is endless.

example (say a 30v50)

2 Groups of 10 Mages defend a tunnel.
the tunnel is only 4 people wide
The enemy zerg does a full frontal assult through the tunnel
They get trapped in wall of forces and the mages focus fire with field AoEs(Eg volcano) and LAoEs (Eg Exploding Charge)
The enemy dies 4 by 4 as they try to push through.

Eventually (after taking heavy casulties) they start to push through the defence.

At this time the Destroyer Spec Group charges in from behind - making use of the narrow space and their heavy gear to decimate the unexpecting enemies as they try and heal (with their staves out - triggering the 40% increase in dmg vs mages).

With no where to run the once large zerg force rolls over and dies.

This has happend many times and will happen many more times. Guilds with good strategy and tactics win against the odds due to good planning and leadership.

I honestly dont understand what more strategy you could possibly want? (please tell me what is lacking ?)

stop dodging my post maxi

MaxiHori
10-30-2010, 21:33
Lets go to guildwars since i am a 4-5 year vet and top 50 caller

I'd call spikes on important targets...
if a mesmer was giving us a hard time - i'd spike him.
if a warrior was giving our monks a hard time - i'd lineback him
if we were at 1min 45 and the enemy flagger came in - i'd snare/spike him

more on the strat side you could play balanced... or split.. or heroway or hexway... or lameway.... blahblahblah loadsa meta game.

in that case the strategy is in the guild leader that TOLD YOU what to do,
what skills he needed you to do and on which targets.
he chosed which class will partecipate at the battle, their roles, etc etc...

you are confusing the strategy with the skilled player.

guild wars doesnt really have "skilled players"(also cause using only 8 skills are pretty simple task),
but it has a lot of strategy since you have to choose these 8 skills from thousands of skills.




In darkfall - a full frontal assult is never as good as a thought out strat.
Flanking.... Mercs.... Chokepointing... Taking high ground... like i said the list is endless.
like I said, other mmorpgs already have this too... BUT they also have something more.



I honestly dont understand what more strategy you could possibly want? (please tell me what is lacking ?)
so tell me, what's your role in a battle?
someone else will ALWAYS able to take your place, you are not unique, I cannot use my group members in the most efficient way, cause they are all the same...
I dont care if you are the bait, or the one hidden near the tree, or the one coming from behind riding a horse.....
that's the point.

you recognise a pro when he learn something about you while fighting you,
when you use an ability and he recognise that ability and calculate the cooldown, when you use a potion, a bandage, etc...
he can just look your armor and try to understand which fighting style can you use, if your spells fail, he can calculate your mana..

that's a pro player!

what can you learn on a fight between vets?
they have the same equip, same skills, same stats, everything it's the same!

MaxiHori
10-30-2010, 21:37
I dont get why do always think that im here for some "conspiracy" stuff against this game.

this game lack a lot of things, and im pointing that things out.

I bought this game cause I wanted to play it.

complaining never been a bad thing if you add also suggestions and solutions

Mister T
10-30-2010, 21:57
in that case the strategy is in the guild leader that TOLD YOU what to do,
what skills he needed you to do and on which targets.
he chosed which class will partecipate at the battle, their roles, etc etc...

Its identical to guildwars... in GW i say spike in 321... in darkfall i say focus... at the end of the day people throw a high dmg spell/skill at whoever im calling... And yes of couse the leader is incharge of stragegy..... As is the way in real life :bang:

like I said, other mmorpgs already have this too... BUT they also have something more.
What more?


so tell me, what's your role in a battle?
someone else will ALWAYS able to take your place, you are not unique, I cannot use my group members in the most efficient way, cause they are all the same...
I dont care if you are the bait, or the one hidden near the tree, or the one coming from behind riding a horse.....
that's the point.

i almost get your point that most people can do the same things... but gear changes everything... a group of 10 warriors are strong in close range but weak in longrange and viceversa for mages. Each person at a siege will have their strengths and weaknesses and a good leader will put them in the right place at the right time

you recognise a pro when he learn something about you while fighting you,
when you use an ability and he recognise that ability and calculate the cooldown, when you use a potion, a bandage, etc...
he can just look your armor and try to understand which fighting style can you use, if your spells fail, he can calculate your mana..

You can see what "spec" someone is from the gear they wear. If its all shiney and theyre waving a fuckoff big hammer... chances are they are a destroyer. If theyre in lighter armour carring a fucking wand theyre most likely a mage. Also you sound like not a good player as i can see when my enemy is out of mana.. or stamina for example... they stop sprinting or they start spamming mana to stam or chugging pots etc.. and if someones just shot 30 spells at me and hasnt cast a mana conversion then 9/10 they are out of mana too.. (i thought this stuff was common sense..?)

what can you learn on a fight between vets?
they have the same equip, same skills, same stats, everything it's the same!


There are 100s (if not 1000s) of spells in darkfall but mainly you see the same ones used the most because they are the META GAME. just like in guildwars certain skills were OP for a few weeks and everyone used them.


read the red

Emolas
10-30-2010, 21:57
Guise, I can't make my paladins focus their shamans.


Where's the strategy in that???

MaxiHori
10-30-2010, 22:21
Its identical to guildwars... in GW i say spike in 321... in darkfall i say focus... at the end of the day people throw a high dmg spell/skill at whoever im calling... And yes of couse the leader is incharge of stragegy..... As is the way in real life
how can you say that this is like gw, how do you protect another guy in this game? how do you combine different skills effects to kill the same target?
in darkfall you just have to kill the others focusing on one target at a time.
how can you say that is the same as guild wars?
how many time did you die on a guildwars 8vs8? maybe 2-3 times in 1 hour?
GW have more strategy cause you have different characters, and different characters means more different way to play.




like I said, other mmorpgs already have this too... BUT they also have something more.
What more?
as I said, different roles in battles.




i almost get your point that most people can do the same things... but gear changes everything... a group of 10 warriors are strong in close range but weak in longrange and viceversa for mages. Each person at a siege will have their strengths and weaknesses and a good leader will put them in the right place at the right time
well you have a point on the different gear, but you can still do the same things with different gear... maybe not efficiency at 100% but it's still basically the same




You can see what "spec" someone is from the gear they wear. If its all shiney and theyre waving a fuckoff big hammer... chances are they are a destroyer. If theyre in lighter armour carring a fucking wand theyre most likely a mage. Also you sound like not a good player as i can see when my enemy is out of mana.. or stamina for example... they stop sprinting or they start spamming mana to stam or chugging pots etc.. and if someones just shot 30 spells at me and hasnt cast a mana conversion then 9/10 they are out of mana too.. (i thought this stuff was common sense..?)
so basically you can just look upon the gear and the transfers....
isnt really that much




There are 100s (if not 1000s) of spells in darkfall but mainly you see the same ones used the most because they are the META GAME. just like in guildwars certain skills were OP for a few weeks and everyone used them.

true but if you always use the same skills in GW, you will still have a more complete game, cause there are different classes.
here it's like everyone is the same so I always see the same skills, same stuff, same way of fighting...

im not saying it's bad, I mean... I think that GW can be reaaaaally boring and full of noobs but you have to admit that GW still has more strategy than df.

(im not saying that I want this game more like GW, im fine with this "low" strategy, but facts are facts)

Banka plixz
10-30-2010, 22:23
We just won a 21 v 100 siege thanks to strategy and cooperation

MaxiHori
10-30-2010, 22:38
We just won a 21 v 100 siege thanks to strategy and cooperation

well I never been in any siege in this game so I have no idea about it :)

Shaoz
10-30-2010, 22:42
We just won a 21 v 100 siege thanks to strategy and cooperation

The other team clearly just sucked or had new characters. Lets get a video! You probably don't have one because it probably didn't happen.

Banka plixz
10-31-2010, 00:04
The other team clearly just sucked or had new characters. Lets get a video! You probably don't have one because it probably didn't happen.

If you forumlurkers actually subbed for the game you are on the forum for (:idea:) you'd see that the EU clan discussion is going hawt

Mister T
10-31-2010, 00:06
how can you say that this is like gw, how do you protect another guy in this game? Buffs (enchantments) Heals, Physically block them (get infront of them as this game isnt autoaim/hit thru friendlys)

how do you combine different skills effects to kill the same target? Blinds... Snares... Knockups... Debuffs

in darkfall you just have to kill the others focusing on one target at a time.
how can you say that is the same as guild wars? You dont just focus one target at a time - you have to keep the overall strategy and also heal/res any of your guys that go down.

how many time did you die on a guildwars 8vs8? maybe 2-3 times in 1 hour? This doesnt even relate to darkfall.. dying in GW and dying in dfo have 2 completely different consequences.

GW have more strategy cause you have different characters, and different characters means more different way to play. Guild wars has many different metagames/builds but darkfall has true strategy (ie strategies that are used in real life / used in history.



true but if you always use the same skills in GW, you will still have a more complete game, cause there are different classes.
here it's like everyone is the same so I always see the same skills, same stuff, same way of fighting... What your saying is GW has more classes than df so theres more different types of builds etc... darkfall has no class based system and its been designed so that everyone can do everything... prestiege classes will change that tho


at the end of the day, you admit u dont play the game so you cant say it doesnt have strategy ./thread

Realbigdeal22
10-31-2010, 00:39
We just won a 21 v 100 siege thanks to strategy and cooperation

Being proud of this is really getting old. You won because of time spent in game. Like above said, the 100 men might had more new players or under developed players more then good players.

Lord Zeb
10-31-2010, 02:11
A lot of strategy is possible in this game. However, we are limited by problems with:

Roles
There are few roles that are viable, and we have mainly 3 roles: Tank, Mage and Newb. Tanks are people in Full Plate or heavier armor, with Destroyer/Mage Hunter or similar abilities that block out Higher Magic; and Mages with access to all schools for spell cycling and wearing Bone armor. And Newbs who hasn't learned High Magic well enough or are wealthy enough to risk wearing Rare Metal armors, that generally just... die.

We need more roles, which in military terms could be light infantry, archers, light mounted cavalry, heavy cavalry, mounted archers, Pikemen, Turtle regiments, and moving on to Fantasy roles: Buffer mages, AoE mages, Assassin magehunters and so on.

To do this, one need to foster a Speciality mage culture as well as put in different and move varied roles within the system, which the Prestice Class system might do. Let's hope so.


Mobility
Movement is too fast-paced without consequences for Sprinting, fostering non-realistic personal strategies such as Headless-hen fighting, and Bunnyjumping, that are not well conductive with group strategy. Putting in a more realistic mobility system with inertia, such as Water movement, would curb these.

Putting in increased Stamina cost for Sprinting/Jumping/Swimming in heavy armors would also diversify strategy a bit, making slower strategies with troop formations be more viable as well as giving lighter armors a role on the battlefield.

Furthermore, Mounts are quite cumbersome to control, and their very cumbersomeness makes what would be the Elite on the battlefield to be inefficient. That we do not have any one-handed spears also adds to this, as the Reach of one-handed weapons from the seat is often too short to hit the target... especially when the target is a Dwarf or Alfar.


System failures
Some people fear Alignment hits, so people bring in mixed teams with Blues & Reds, to make people confused, or even exploit being in Tower range. Also, other system failures, such as only being able to declare Siege on 1 clan 1/day instead of 1 Siege/day, is exploited by alliances "self-declaring" on their own cities to safeguard ALL holdings of an alliance by Self-sieging one of them (of course without taking the Hamlet in question).

Not to mention the failure of systems decreasing motivation for combat, as the Race Wars are dead, battle for Dominion isn't done as one want far-spread holdings to have a teleport grid instead of a defendable one, and the Village system is only contributing to gold inflation, not bringing in proper PvP opportunities as Holdings.

And this apart from lag in larger as well as smaller battles.

Things are likely to improve though, first of all with the Prestige Classes... and hopefully AV will see the system failures and do something about them. We'll also see if the GUI upgrades will make horseback riding easier and more competitive... and this is only the upgrades we expect in the next expansion and we expect a lot more expansions in the future.

MaxiHori
10-31-2010, 10:32
at the end of the day, you admit u dont play the game so you cant say it doesnt have strategy ./thread

whatever, if you think that this game have strategy than you never played any other mmorpgs.
maybe GW was the right thing to you, where the leader just told you what did you have to do.

MaxiHori
10-31-2010, 10:43
how can you say that this is like gw, how do you protect another guy in this game? Buffs (enchantments) Heals, Physically block them (get infront of them as this game isnt autoaim/hit thru friendlys)

buffs? ahahahah
heals? yeah without even a party members life bar
get infront of them? lol, did you ever seen the bodyguard ability on daoc?
and the tanks on warhammer? I've seen tanks rushing into the enemy with other people behind them cause the first one with the shield protect everyone behind him.
I've seen 3 tanks with huge shield making a wall, and behind them casters and archers!
there are siege that took 1 hour only to take a tower, cause a raid get stuck by only 1 group.
you can place tanks on a door, and let coming inside only 1-2 person at the time so you can kill them while the raid stay outside.
that's a strategy!



how do you combine different skills effects to kill the same target? Blinds... Snares... Knockups... Debuffs

Guild wars has many different metagames/builds but darkfall has true strategy (ie strategies that are used in real life / used in history.

-.- maybe Alessandro Magno could teach you something about history and strategy....

Mister T
10-31-2010, 16:21
wow i didnt realise you are an actual troll -.- (i got trolled :bang: )


buffs? ahahahah Ask anyone this is one of the most important things in group fights. (being able to hit 2x as fast etc

heals? yeah without even a party members life bar Thats just a straight up lie. Play the game before u lie about it. (There are health bars and there are heals.)

get infront of them? lol, did you ever seen the bodyguard ability on daoc?
and the tanks on warhammer? I've seen tanks rushing into the enemy with other people behind them cause the first one with the shield protect everyone behind him.
I've seen 3 tanks with huge shield making a wall, and behind them casters and archers!
there are siege that took 1 hour only to take a tower, cause a raid get stuck by only 1 group.
you can place tanks on a door, and let coming inside only 1-2 person at the time so you can kill them while the raid stay outside.
that's a strategy! You didnt even read my post... Or play the game. That all happens in darkfall. Watch ANY Siege video and you'll see strongboxes/cannons/warhulks/mounts etc blocking enterances so only a few can get through at a time



Seems to me everything your asking for is already ingame. Of course if you actually played the game you would know this. /thread

Yoda
10-31-2010, 16:24
you can place tanks on a door, and let coming inside only 1-2 person at the time so you can kill them while the raid stay outside.
that's a strategy!

yea a terrible one. hey lets let them enemy fight on their terms while we put our backs up against a wall. holding closed spaces never works in darkfall. watch that talpec siege vid for an example