09/23/2006, Dev Prompted Debate: Single Race, or Single Character per Server?

[Naithin]

You can find information on the story over at Darkfall Warcry (http://df.warcry.com), Here: Darkfall WarCry Weekly... Debate? - One Char or Race per Server? (http://df.warcry.com/scripts/news/view_news.phtml?site=7&id=64964)

But the gist of this is simple. The quote from the Darkfall Development Team should sum things up for us fairly nicely:

"While we believe that Darkfall's skill system ensures never having to reroll a character, meaning that one character slot per world is enough, we would like to know what the Darkfall community thinks. We invite a civilized and constructive debate on the topic."
-The Darkfall Team


If you wish for some refreshers before posting your own constructive thoughts, two of the stand out ones in recent memory are:

RPG Vault Darkfall Peek #24 - Darkfall's Skill System (http://rpgvault.ign.com/articles/716/716421p1.html)
RPG Vault Darkfall Peek #28 - Darkfall's Dynamics of Conflict (http://rpgvault.ign.com/articles/728/728853p1.html)



One last thing before you begin, the two primary sides for further clarification are:

1) SCS (Single Character per Server)
2) SRS (Single Race per Server)

At this point, MRS (Multiple Races (and characters) per Server) is not a primary consideration. If you wish to make a passing comment in regards to it, feel free, but most of your attentions and efforts should be focused on SCS vs SRS.

[Quaestor]

As I've made it clear before, one character per server is a game-killer. I won't play that way.

[Patk9]

1 Race, multiple characters, will allow more depth

[Nefastus]

In my opinion Single Race Per Server with the same alignment/last name would be the best solution. It allows players to diversify a bit, and at the same time keep them accountable on the server.

[exil]

I agree with Nefastus. Most of the reasons to limit players to 1 char per sever are either superficial or easily overcome, while allowing 1 race per server gives players more options for goofing off and what not, while holding players in line.

[Naithin]

The more you can elaborate on your view, the better! :)

What points do you have for your view, or against the other? Any specifics would go a long way in furthering your cause.

[Lukeh]

In my opinion Single Race Per Server with alignment/last name would be the best solution. It allows players to diversify a bit, and at the same time keep them accountable on the server.


^

[Nidhoggr]

I haven't really decided my opinion yet and probably won't until we know how the skill system works completely.

If it's a single character per server, it would suck if you make a pure melee character and then if you suddenly want to be a caster type, you'd have to drop all your main high end skills in melee fighting, just to train some spellcasting.

On the other hand, if the skill system is very open ended and you won't end up gimping your melee favored character by taking some spellcasting skills. I'm all for single character per server.

If not however, I'm more for the single race per server.

[Surly]

SCS!

I'm glad to see multi-race per server isn't even being considered.

Single character per server is my preference because it forces players to be only one person ingame. I'm all for accountability, and that will accomplish it. There's always the work-around of registering multiple accounts though, but that's always good for profits! It should also make the game more challenging, and it will make individual "roles" more important. In UO, everyone had a crafter mule... if people can't do that in Darkfall, it'll make crafters much more in demand. People will have to use a lot of teamwork if they can't just log on to their "spec" characters for specific tasks. And military organization on a large scale will also be enhanced because your armies will be static, and you will know (roughly) what types of units you can count on. I'm entirely in favor of single characters per server. I know a lot of people will be scared of the idea because it isn't "standard"... but people tend to just be pussies about new ideas, regardless of how awesome it is. Look at the big picture, single character per server is the way to go.

[Stage01]

It's very simple and I think the devs may be missing this. Having a single character per server in their eyes makes sense because you have unlimited options essentially for customizing your character. However, if I have a character that is all about foot speed, poison spells and summoning. With few skills in pirating and maybe two handed weapons. That is my main character and I like my character. I do not want to learn a sword and sheild with this character, I do not want to learn ice, or healing spells, however I AM CURIOUS WHAT THEY ARE LIKE. Therefore I start another character and I roll them in an entirely different direction with very different attributes and skills. I enjoy playing with both of them, but I have no need to mix the two skillsets of my two characters into 1 character.

Also, what if a player wants a character specifically for crafting, to act as a "mule" of sorts to hold all of the main characters highly valuable trade items.

I also don't think it's very fair to have us engage in this discussion with hardly any information on the skill system. Its like having me sit down to a debate about foreign political policies on a country I've never heard of, and I have to decide who is going to be put in office and why.


However to the point, my vote is multiple characters per server, but same race. If we are to allow switching of races per server per individual do it like Planetside. If you switch one character , to one of the opposing race or alliance then you must wait 8 hours before switching back to the enemy character. obviously to avoid spying and other exploits.

[colorguardgirl]

i would say 1 race per server.

[Tormentius]

SCS.

I have always wanted a characters reputation to play a bigger part in mmorpgs.
Your name being (in)famous throughout the land, your actions really affecting how others see you and knowing that you cant kill me with one character and be my friend with another (bar the idiots with two accounts).

It may not defeat the evil of being entirely self sufficient (which I found very dissapointing in uo when the days of hanging out at the blacksmiths dissapeared) but it will help since skills gain slower as you master others.

SCS.

[TreyDingo2020]

Im glad you are getting the communities opinion. This is why we stay devoted to DFO.

I would say that you should only get 1 char per server except that i have siblings that will want to play the game a little before buying it, and would like to make a character and maybe explore a little. I feel they would not be able to get the full feel for the game running around a completely new world with no friends or connections. If they could join the same server i have been doing things in i would be able to show them some of the finer points of the game such as my own town or a friend of mines town. Things such as my guild and how it runs in the game.

another big factor is that there isnt going to be complete peace among most races. You wouldnt want to be able to have people with characters on both sides of a conflict. And one race per server isnt going to solve that.

I believe the best solution would be 1 race per server. But you would have to also make is 1 clan per server. Also it would probably be best to have something such as the same last name for all the characters or something of that sort.

[Surly]

You can always start another character on a different server if you want to test things out. There's no reason to lobby for multi-characters per server outside of fear that you won't be able to experience all of the game. You can, and will eventually. Nobody cries about not being able to completely switch off characters in the middle of a single player RPG.

[Nefastus]

I agree that being a single character in a game like this is very important for accountability, however, people will dual box anyways. As I mentioned earlier, if Devs decide to implement PERMENATE Last Names for all the characters on the same server, along with same alignment for all the characters, it'll basically be like having a single identity on the server. You'll still be recognized as the same player and you'll able to play multiple characters.

Single Race Per Server + Same Alignment/Last Name for Characters on the same Server = Accountability and Single Identity.

[JunWF]

SRS is my vote.

Nefastus hit the nail on the head I think. Although I don't fully see a reason to have more then one character, having the choice to is nice.

[exil]

The crafting in DF is also supposed to be pretty time consuming and main char based, so i dont think players will have alot of top end crafting mules and keep up a combat char at the same time.

[NewRage]

I'm all for SCS. Especially with being able to drop/gain any skills at any time. Although to be honest, I don't feel any of us are in the position to make a choice, yet. We have no idea what the mechanics are like, and don't know... well just about anything useful in helping us make a decision I don't like the idea of, "We are gonna raid the Alfar, so everyone log on to your anti-magic toons". If people are allowed to have multiple characters, then everyone will have a fighter, a mule, and a crafter. It ruins economy. Why would I pay 1 million for dragon armor, when I could farm the components myself on my fighter, then switch over to my crafter and make the armor myself? Depending on the game mechanics, it could get even worse. A crafter could make a carrier toon that has no skills except speed enhancements and snares.

Also, what if a player wants a character specifically for crafting, to act as a "mule" of sorts to hold all of the main characters highly valuable trade items.

Wow, that is actually a reason some people want to have multiple characters on the same server?

[Surly]

I agree that being a single character in a game like this is very important for accountability, however, people will dual box anyways. As I mentioned earlier, if Devs decide to implement PERMENATE Last Names for all the characters on the same server, along with same alignment for all the characters, it'll basically be like having a single identity on the server. You'll still be recognized as the same player and you'll able to play multiple characters.

Single Race Per Server + Same Alignment/Last Name for Characters on the same Server = Accountability and Single Identity."Dual Boxing" isn't an issue because only a very small fraction of people actually do it. The type of people on this forum will be more likely to do it because it makes their e-peen big. It's a ridiculous argument to assume that the only reason to do this would be accountability, and moreover your entire anti-SCS philosophy banks on them putting in permanent last names. That is not the issue here at all! Stick to the discussion at hand. And better yet, start supporting single character per server!

[Shadow Walker2020]

It should be one race per server, multiple character slots, individual character names/alignment. It allows for total freedom for the player.

One must also remember that players want to play different styles of character. Even though there is no hard cap for the skills, eventually its going to get hard to gain skill. Having multiple characters allows the player to divide up skills among different characters, letting them focus specific skills to those specific characters with out the hassle of having to bog one character down with skills from different types. I know I personally dont want to have to load my warrior up with crafting skills then have him hit his soft cap and make it harder for him to gain in his warrior skills. I do want to play as a crafter, warrior, and a mage, but not all on the same character. I know this goes for others as well. Darkfall as too rich of a skill and spell system to only have it one character per server. Multiple characters is the way to go.

There is also the issue of players who share their accounts with siblings and such, a problem I know Im going to encounter as will many others. I know that this is not suggested, but its going to happen. This is another reason I believe that one race per server, multiple character slots, and individual character names/alignment is best. The play styles of the different people using the account can conflict. One person may want to play a PKer and go evil and the others may not. Linking them all togehter with one last name/alignment will hurt the other people who play that account because of the actions of one person. I will end up sharing my account with my brother. He likes to play as an evil character. I personally dont want to be tied to his characters evil deeds and have my character suffer for it. I would like to be able to go places and explore Agon, not have to worry about who my brother logged on and ticked off. Or if they will be coming after me because I have to have the same last name as him. If I can, im going to give my character a totally different name than his so no one knows Im affiliated with him. That way, my brother can play the way he wants, and I can play the way I want.

Basically, I think the quote from Tasos in my sig says it best:


The way it works is one race per server. That's the only limitation.

Thats how it should be, and thats how it will work. Anything eles will ruin it.

[dragonreborn]

i would like to see one race per server, but i think that we should beable to have seprate allighnments for each char

[Chaucer]

It's very simple and I think the devs may be missing this. Having a single character per server in their eyes makes sense because you have unlimited options essentially for customizing your character. However, if I have a character that is all about foot speed, poison spells and summoning. With few skills in pirating and maybe two handed weapons. That is my main character and I like my character. I do not want to learn a sword and sheild with this character, I do not want to learn ice, or healing spells, however I AM CURIOUS WHAT THEY ARE LIKE. Therefore I start another character and I roll them in an entirely different direction with very different attributes and skills. I enjoy playing with both of them, but I have no need to mix the two skillsets of my two characters into 1 character.

Also, what if a player wants a character specifically for crafting, to act as a "mule" of sorts to hold all of the main characters highly valuable trade items.

I also don't think it's very fair to have us engage in this discussion with hardly any information on the skill system. Its like having me sit down to a debate about foreign political policies on a country I've never heard of, and I have to decide who is going to be put in office and why.


However to the point, my vote is multiple characters per server, but same race. If we are to allow switching of races per server per individual do it like Planetside. If you switch one character , to one of the opposing race or alliance then you must wait 8 hours before switching back to the enemy character. obviously to avoid spying and other exploits.


Very well stated and I'd have to agree. Multiple characters of the same race per server is definately the way to go. I'm not sure how the banking system goes but imagine having to store ALL of your crafting stuff plus melee/spellcasting items plus just extra stuff you want to keep. I'd rather have one toon for crafting and another that I could have be my main.

[Merrin]

SCS because:

1) I do not want to see clans or entire nations controlling two or more regions of the Darkfall map with anything but their primary characters. Having second characters allows players to settle one region, and then establish strongholds wherever the better resource pits appear without sacrificing the security or benefits of their primary base.

2) Given the reason above, SCS makes the game far more challenging due to the limitations it brings about.

[Stage01]

I agree that being a single character in a game like this is very important for accountability, however, people will dual box anyways. As I mentioned earlier, if Devs decide to implement PERMENATE Last Names for all the characters on the same server, along with same alignment for all the characters, it'll basically be like having a single identity on the server. You'll still be recognized as the same player and you'll able to play multiple characters.

Single Race Per Server + Same Alignment/Last Name for Characters on the same Server = Accountability and Single Identity.

Agreed.

[Nefastus]

Surly once in a while grow the fuck up and realize that not every discussion has to be an argument and not everyone will agree with you.

[Stage01]

Wow, that is actually a reason some people want to have multiple characters on the same server?

Me personally? no. Others? Maybe. However, keep in mind this is a constructive conversation.

[Rokolith]

In games currIn games currently out, I would have to say that I enjoy games that allow more than one character of a certain race. Alts are good for getting away from your guild, any acting in a way that you won't have to worry about your reputation with other players (much like people use the Internet to act however they want, instead of doing it IRL and getting beat up for it). Alts are ok for alot of games, because those games aren't structured so that alts can be damaging to the player economy or gameplay. Alts are a nice side venture for fun in most games, for twinking and other purposes. I can see alts in darkfall though, will jeopardize the solidity of the gameplay for serveral reasons, listed below.

Reasons not to have alts in Darkfall
1. Spys. This game is focused around alot of player made conflict, seiges, battles, clan warfare, etc. How lousy would it be, that when your city is being seiged you suddenly find out that a group of guys in your clan are spies and just opened the main gate for the assault? Not a good thing.

2. Mules. In Darkfall, there is full loot PvP, which means that your equipped items are always at a constant threat of being taken from you (duh). This being the case, mules would allow you to transfer loot to an alt and log off the alt, making your loot safe from any sort of plunder. I'm assuming that banked items on a character are able to be pillaged by defeating the town/outpost they were banked at (if banking is in) so alts would be again a menace to the solid game play.

3. No consequence game play. In Darkfall, as I understand it, characters progress a weapon or spell skill to a not too hard to achieve skill level, then they are at their peak. Assuming this, it won't take much time to get a leveled alt up to near maximum strength, from which normal game play will begin. Alignment, good evil or neutral will have nearly no point if there are alts. you could go on your main and slaughter towns and towns of innocent fun loving NCPs and become very evil, then go and make an alt and be the good guy on the same account. Players will not have to make any real decisions like "I shouldn't kill that town or poor harmless creatures because it will go against my alignment and I eventually want to keep a good standing and be the top of the 'X' faction. Also, I might come under fire by my same race for being so ruthless and denied access to towns" Instead it will be "I'm going to slaughter this village of helpless animals, then the next. I'll just make an alt and make him good later if I want, this can be my bad character".

In conclusion, one of the better sounding parts of darkfalls game play is the power to make choices that leave a lasting impact (Ex.Attack town X or Y with my guild, kill the Bad guy and save the maiden or kill the maiden for her gold), with alts, it trivializes alot of decisions you make with your character. Having multiple characters removes a very important dimension of depth to the game play, and I would rather there only be 1 character per account for these reasons. Thank you for taking the time to read this.:)

[Merrin]

Although I don't fully see a reason to have more then one character

Clan logistics: access and control to more regions of the Darkfall map.

[Shadow Walker2020]

You can always start another character on a different server if you want to test things out. There's no reason to lobby for multi-characters per server outside of fear that you won't be able to experience all of the game. You can, and will eventually. Nobody cries about not being able to completely switch off characters in the middle of a single player RPG.


The game is going to start off with only one server. They wont be able to go over to another server untill a new one is made. How are players supposed to get the full experience of the game then? What, have to constantly pick up and drop new skills? Thats just like re-roling you character, a problem the devs are trying to avoid. Multiple characters per server is the way to go.

[Surly]

I despise the idea of everyone being able to make a crafter alt, it ruins my profession! Multi-characters just open up too much diversity per player, and it makes nothing unique. It makes "Flavor of the Month" characters pop up every goddamn time there's a patch, and everyone is able to just switch characters during a fight to something more suitable. Would it not be interesting to have variation in player abilities during combat? I'm sick of every single game requiring you to be decked out in awesome skills and items just to compete. In Darkfall it isn't going to be that way, don't squander the opportunity by allowing it to happen with multipler characters.

[Sarmatian]

Scs.

I don't really care either way. If its SCS that is cool imo, if its SRS I guess I'll eventually have a main, a mule, and other various alts to choose from :/

Pretty lame, but I know the masses like SRS so w/e.

[exil]

how would multiple chars per server cause the game to be gear based?

[ruzenlire]

I think it is rediculous to have 1 anything on an MMOG. When you play them long enough you become bored and like to experiment. Having your options open keeps peeps interested. However if these are my only options :( I choose 1 race, multi chars..

[Surly]

how would multiple chars per server cause the game to be gear based?It wouldn't, it would make the game more competitive for the skills that are in it. Everyone will feel the need to have a specced out character for each task. You'll have a mule for crafting, a healer for support, a melee guy to tank with... it's silly. Why should you be able to just flip your entire skillset on a whim? It makes every type of role in the game entirely bland and nothing is left to be unique. I'd like to see a Darkfall where crafters are rare and useful, where entire guilds of fire-slinging wizards would be rare and incredibly effective, where armies can't just change their entire specialization instantly.

Everyone arguing for multi-chars seems to want to do everything all at once because they're scared they'll be at a disadvantage if they get caught on their "crafter" by a PKer. Stop being such wretched cowards, the game'll be a lot more challenging and fun when we can't magically inhabit a different body every day.

[NewRage]

Clan logistics: access and control to more regions of the Darkfall map.

And politics. I was part of ODT for a bit on the test server in SB. People hated them cause they went around randomly destroying cities. What people didn't know is that they also owned the biggest trade city on the server, which provided them with plenty of money and weapons. Now if there were 3 r7 of every NPC in our main city, no one would have gone there and we would have gone bankrupt, or it would have been destoryed. Thanks to alts we were able to kill anyone we wanted while still getting money from everyone.

[Stage01]

Planetside really did have an awsome way to handle this .

There were 3 factions, all at war with each other. Most people had allegiances to a certain side and felt 'loyal' to that. Even though it was a game, you just kind of found your niche with a certain side of the war. However it takes time to find this, and I think experimenting , atleast during beta we should be allowed full reign of all races for the server. Or atleast a limit of 4.

You were allowed 4 characters per server of any allignent. However anytime you decided to switch to a character of the opposite allignment you'd have to wait 8 hours to switch back.

Secondly, most of the time the reason I did this was out of curiosity of how the other side played out.

Accountability is a good point and I'd like to see some sort of system in place for players to hold accountability, but I dont think straight out limiting the choices of players who pay for this game to have fun is the answer.

So where is the medium ?

Same last name per every character per race
Same allignment across all characters per race
A hourly penalty for switching across races
a limit of 2 maybe 3 race choices?
Perhaps only allowing a character to play races of a similar allignment

[Spinewire]

Surly is right....


However it will make people buy more than one copy, but people will do that even of they can have multi chars so....


Single chars ftw...


(Also i would not be forced to have second name... which i love)

[Surly]

I think it is rediculous to have 1 anything on an MMOG. When you play them long enough you become bored and like to experiment. Having your options open keeps peeps interested. However if these are my only options :( I choose 1 race, multi chars..Stop thinking so one-dimensionally. This is Darkfall, not every other game you've played in the past. Training new skills on an old character isn't going to be a grind-fest, it's just a matter of a couple of days of work.

[Sarmatian]

It wouldn't, it would make the game more competitive for the skills that are in it. Everyone will feel the need to have a specced out character for each task. You'll have a mule for crafting, a healer for support, a melee guy to tank with... it's silly. Why should you be able to just flip your entire skillset on a whim? It makes every type of role in the game entirely bland and nothing is left to be unique. I'd like to see a Darkfall where crafters are rare and useful, where entire guilds of fire-slinging wizards would be rare and incredibly effective, where armies can't just change their entire specialization instantly.

Everyone arguing for multi-chars seems to want to do everything all at once because they're scared they'll be at a disadvantage if they get caught on their "crafter" by a PKer. Stop being such wretched cowards, the game'll be a lot more challenging and fun when we can't magically inhabit a different body every day.

QFT, seriously.

[Quantrell]

I have always been a fan of SCS.

My motivations have always been purely economic in nature. When you start allowing crafting mules to be the norm then you take a huge step in under cutting the delicate balance of a player ran economy. Honestly, in most games out, player crafters have little impact, so it doesnt really matter. But in DFO where they have made it a point to make crafters important, it will have huge impact.

If even 50% of the player base has a mule if will create an over saturation of items that will kill off the crafter player. With no one to sell their goods to, they will quickly bore and move on. You see, plain and simple, from what I have understood from crafters that I have played with, it isnt the crafting that they actually enjoy, but the selling of their goods. The ability to earn gold while meeting many different players is enjoyable to them. I think the world would be alot more vibrant if the actual crafter had a place.

Now even though it has never been something to really effect my thoughts on this debate, I do find it odd when people feel they need to have multiple characters so they can have mutiple personas. I really enjoy it when people will talk about how they want to become well known and feared, but then in the next breath say that they want an alt to hide behind when the heat gets to high. That right there sounds more carebear then carebear to me. It just shows you are too scared to live with that reputation you claim to want.

[exil]

Skills decay over time...how many people will have chars and crafters of more than 2-3 max if its easy to keep skills up and still have any ok skills/gear? If anything multiple chars make the game less time based or in extremes more with people who keep multiple chars kept up. The downsides to multiple char per server are very easy to overcome, while the downsides to one char per server are unavoidable.

[Stage01]

It wouldn't, it would make the game more competitive for the skills that are in it. Everyone will feel the need to have a specced out character for each task. You'll have a mule for crafting, a healer for support, a melee guy to tank with... it's silly. Why should you be able to just flip your entire skillset on a whim? It makes every type of role in the game entirely bland and nothing is left to be unique. I'd like to see a Darkfall where crafters are rare and useful, where entire guilds of fire-slinging wizards would be rare and incredibly effective, where armies can't just change their entire specialization instantly.

Everyone arguing for multi-chars seems to want to do everything all at once because they're scared they'll be at a disadvantage if they get caught on their "crafter" by a PKer. Stop being such wretched cowards, the game'll be a lot more challenging and fun when we can't magically inhabit a different body every day.

I think you have the wrong idea considering any character can pick up a healing spell. Any character can craft. Generally people who want to craft will, and healers will heal. A solo player will pick up a single healing spell etc. So for the most part your arguement dosn't really pose a problem in darkfall. If anything the reason for multiple characters per server is for variety in gameplay styles , not because there will be cookie cutter builds. Thinking along those lines is because you are so dead set in a way of thinking that other MMO's have instilled in you.

[Shadow Walker2020]

Reasons not to have alts in Darkfall
1. Spys. This game is focused around alot of player made conflict, seiges, battles, clan warfare, etc. How lousy would it be, that when your city is being seiged you suddenly find out that a group of guys in your clan are spies and just opened the main gate for the assault? Not a good thing.

Players can always buy a second account and still be able to spy. And dont tell me no one will do this, because they will.

Mules. In Darkfall, there is full loot PvP, which means that your equipped items are always at a constant threat of being taken from you (duh). This being the case, mules would allow you to transfer loot to an alt and log off the alt, making your loot safe from any sort of plunder. I'm assuming that banked items on a character are able to be pillaged by defeating the town/outpost they were banked at (if banking is in) so alts would be again a menace to the solid game play.

Again, all the person will need to do is buy a second or third account.

You contradict yourself here. You say that the loot is in constant threat of being taken, yet, you say that just because the loot in on an alternate character, it becomes instantly safe. Whats to stop players from killing the alt and looting them? Answer, nothing.

Second, if someone wants to store there stuff in a non lootable bank, all they have to do is make it to an NPC controled bank in an NPC town that cannot be taken by clans. You dont need an alt to do that.

3. No consequence game play. In Darkfall, as I understand it, characters progress a weapon or spell skill to a not too hard to achieve skill level, then they are at their peak. Assuming this, it won't take much time to get a leveled alt up to near maximum strength, from which normal game play will begin. Alignment, good evil or neutral will have nearly no point if there are alts. you could go on your main and slaughter towns and towns of innocent fun loving NCPs and become very evil, then go and make an alt and be the good guy on the same account. Players will not have to make any real decisions like "I shouldn't kill that town or poor harmless creatures because it will go against my alignment and I eventually want to keep a good standing and be the top of the 'X' faction. Also, I might come under fire by my same race for being so ruthless and denied access to towns" Instead it will be "I'm going to slaughter this village of helpless animals, then the next. I'll just make an alt and make him good later if I want, this can be my bad character".

Your main, evil character, will be hunted every time they log on. Since the only way to gain alignment with your race is to kill either racial enemies or evil members of your own race, evil players will be the soup de jour of glory hounds since they will have the easiest time getting to them. And if that person does not log that evil character on ever again, youve basically won against them. Youve forced them to have to basically give up that character. Its kind of like perma-death for that character. And even if they deicide to log that characer back on, they will still be evil. There are no murder counts in Darkfall. The only way to get rid of that evil status is to log that character on and go kill racial enemies or other evil characters.

In conclusion, one of the better sounding parts of darkfalls game play is the power to make choices that leave a lasting impact (Ex.Attack town X or Y with my guild, kill the Bad guy and save the maiden or kill the maiden for her gold), with alts, it trivializes alot of decisions you make with your character. Having multiple characters removes a very important dimension of depth to the game play, and I would rather there only be 1 character per account for these reasons. Thank you for taking the time to read this.:)

It trivializes nothing. That character, if evil, will be branded. Everyone will know that character is evil and will attack it on sight. Multiple characters just doesnt limit that player to having to play evil. Even then, all they would need to do is create a second account and then they will still get to play both good and evil. What then becomes trivial is the reason they had to buy another account. So they can enjoy another part of the game, which is wrong and will only hurt Darkfall in the long run.

[Spinewire]

I think you have the wrong idea considering any character can pick up a healing spell. Any character can craft. Generally people who want to craft will, and healers will heal. A solo player will pick up a single healing spell etc. So for the most part your arguement dosn't really pose a problem in darkfall. If anything the reason for multiple characters per server is for variety in gameplay styles , not because there will be cookie cutter builds. Thinking along those lines is because you are so dead set in a way of thinking that other MMO's have instilled in you.


Templates will be devised and they will be very good at one or 2 tasks... If you could make a char that can master everything then this game will be farce.

[iza]

It should be one race per server, multiple character slots, individual character names/alignment. It allows for total freedom for the player.

One must also remember that players want to play different styles of character. Even though there is no hard cap for the skills, eventually its going to get hard to gain skill. Having multiple characters allows the player to divide up skills among different characters, letting them focus specific skills to those specific characters with out the hassle of having to bog one character down with skills from different types. I know I personally dont want to have to load my warrior up with crafting skills then have him hit his soft cap and make it harder for him to gain in his warrior skills. I do want to play as a crafter, warrior, and a mage, but not all on the same character. I know this goes for others as well. Darkfall as too rich of a skill and spell system to only have it one character per server. Multiple characters is the way to go.
Basically, I think the quote from Tasos in my sig says it best:

The way it works is one race per server. That's the only limitation.

Thats how it should be, and thats how it will work. Anything eles will ruin it.
QFT
I need to be able to experiment without gimping a character, or grinding ridiculously.

[NewRage]

I think you have the wrong idea considering any character can pick up a healing spell. Any character can craft. Generally people who want to craft will, and healers will heal. A solo player will pick up a single healing spell etc. So for the most part your arguement dosn't really pose a problem in darkfall. If anything the reason for multiple characters per server is for variety in gameplay styles , not because there will be cookie cutter builds. Thinking along those lines is because you are so dead set in a way of thinking that other MMO's have instilled in you.

I guarantee you if they allow multiple characters on the same server, I will do exactly as Surly said (and I'm assuming other will to). I will make my main fighter with what I feel is all the best skills for PvP combat. I will make a PvE grinder to farm reagents/components. I will make a crafter to supply my guys with equipment (so I don't have to pay someone to do it), and depending on how the game works out I may even have a transporter toon so I can get from A to B without getting killed.

[Surly]

I think you have the wrong idea considering any character can pick up a healing spell. Any character can craft. Generally people who want to craft will, and healers will heal. A solo player will pick up a single healing spell etc. So for the most part your arguement dosn't really pose a problem in darkfall. If anything the reason for multiple characters per server is for variety in gameplay styles , not because there will be cookie cutter builds. Thinking along those lines is because you are so dead set in a way of thinking that other MMO's have instilled in you.What? I'm thinking outside the rules of previous MMOs if anything. Why do you want multiple characters if you don't plan on experimenting with other builds, and having crafting alts? Every single character can do any task, but they can't do it all simultaneously. It takes a little bit of time to change around. If you can just relog onto a different skill set, there's no reason to retrain your character and the ease of transition that exists in Darkfall will have no purpose. Not only that, but every useful build in the game will see itself manifested in multiple copies on every player's account. Why limit the game in such a way? Why make it so bland and redundant? It becomes so boring when you know what to expect from people.

With single characters the game will stay fresh and new for much, much longer. The ability to have multiple characters and multiple skills at your disposal limits the game's staying power. If you've got 5 characters that can do everything in the game, what's the point in ever experimenting with new builds again?

[Rhynn]

SCS!

With the open-ended skill system that's rumored to be in DF, the SCS wouldn't hurt anyone. Assuming you can actually drop skills rather quickly, it wouldn't be game-breaking to change from a pure melee character to a pure caster. In all honesty though, how many people make that switch often? As far as we know, there's nothing to stop you from being a full-on melee type character one day and a full on caster character the next. Yeah, you'd probably have to dump out a ton of skills (but noone's said that dumping skills takes the same amount of time that raising skills does).

Either way, I'm all for SCS. I want people to actually be able to gain some reputations for their characters. I don't want everyone to have 5 master craftsmen alts, every character 100% specc'd for a different occasion. Maybe this way we won't see the "you suck, I'm gonna go get my main and kick your ass" arguments!

[Surly]

I guarantee you if they allow multiple characters on the same server, I will do exactly as Surly said (and I'm assuming other will to). I will make my main fighter with what I feel is all the best skills for PvP combat. I will make a PvE grinder to farm reagents/components. I will make a crafter to supply my guys with equipment (so I don't have to pay someone to do it), and depending on how the game works out I may even have a transporter toon so I can get from A to B without getting killed.So will I. That's the whole problem with it. If you have multiple characters, you MUST create multiple characters to stay competitive. It's more work than it's worth. Every single combatant on the field will be specced for fighting, and fighting alone. I'll be forced to make multi-characters to compete with them.

I'm going to be a crafter primarily, and I'd like to be able to participate in fights with my crafter character so I don't have to keep multiple characters going. This will simply be impossible if every other person I run into is specialized for kicking my ass.

[Sarmatian]

Think about this topic as if Darkfall were into it's 3rd to 4th year post-release. Thinking back to UO, it was pretty lame to be able to log off main char, smith up armor/weps, leave @ inn/house, log back onto main and be on my way.

1+ years into Darkfall, the serious gamers will have a main, a mule, and w/e else. In SCS. I would feel somewhat sorry for the crafters who would be stuck with their crafter, but at the same time they would actually be worth something imo.

About to go to war? Everyone quick, log onto your mules and fill the warehouse. Pretty lame imo.

[keeperofstars]

What about 1 race per server and one ACTIVE character at one time.

You can have multiple characters and can switch to any of them, but you cannot switch back to that character for 5 days. (Time negotiable)

So you make your uber sword melee asskicker, but then want to see what a few spells are like,

Well you create a new character MrSpellsalot and start playing him, after a bit you go yeah not so much my cup of tea. I think I will go back to my melee. You log off and log on your sword melee asskicker.

And MrSpellsAlot is now locked for 5 days meaning you cannot log on as him till the timer is up.

You go hmm damn I want to make a crafter as well, ok you do but same thing with mage.
I am sure you guys get the point now.

What this does though is allow people to have multiple characters to try out different things, but really prevents them from having 5 mule characters, or having fast access to a melee, a healer, a caster, type character all within 10 seconds.

So it allows for the multi character setup but without making it unbalanced or economoy breaking.

[Shadow Walker2020]

It wouldn't, it would make the game more competitive for the skills that are in it. Everyone will feel the need to have a specced out character for each task. You'll have a mule for crafting, a healer for support, a melee guy to tank with... it's silly. Why should you be able to just flip your entire skillset on a whim? It makes every type of role in the game entirely bland and nothing is left to be unique. I'd like to see a Darkfall where crafters are rare and useful, where entire guilds of fire-slinging wizards would be rare and incredibly effective, where armies can't just change their entire specialization instantly.

Yeah, theres a ton of fun. I only get to play a crafter, yay.:rolleyes: No one wants to only play just one style of character. They want to play different types to keep things interesting for them, so they dont get bored with the game.

Everyone arguing for multi-chars seems to want to do everything all at once because they're scared they'll be at a disadvantage if they get caught on their "crafter" by a PKer. Stop being such wretched cowards, the game'll be a lot more challenging and fun when we can't magically inhabit a different body every day.

You couldnt be more wrong. Fear has nothing to do with it. If anything, SCS promoters are scred they wont be able to control everyone because they will have alternate characters. You want to know who everyone is so you can single out those whom you deed undesireable and target them. So if someone does get the better of you and kills you, you can tell your buddies to constantly attack them in an attempt to repair your damaged ego.

Even if players have multiple characters, they can still get caught as their crafter and killed. Nothing is stopping that. They just wont have to play that crafter all the time. They will have the option of playing another charater. And even then, all they need to do is buy a second account and they will still have alternate characters. But that trivializes the game and cheapens it. If you want to play more characters on one server, you have to buy multiple accounts? Thats going to hurt DFs rep and drive players away.

This game is about freedom. SCS is not freedom, its a limitation.

[Surly]

What about 1 race per server and one ACTIVE character at one time.

You can have multiple characters and can switch to any of them, but you cannot switch back to that character for 5 days. (Time negotiable)That's a good idea, I like it. But we'd have to see permanent last-names, and shared alignment for me to really get behind it. That way you could "shelve" your old characters, so you don't feel like you're losing work you put into it. That'd be ok with me.

It's still simpler and better to have one character if you ask me, but I'd go for it.

[Surly]

Yeah, theres a ton of fun. I only get to play a crafter, yay.:rolleyes: Says who? If you don't like crafting, train some combat skills to go with it. Or just retrain yourself completely. It isn't hard. Like I said before, it's Darkfall not WoW. You're just afraid of being "stuck" with a gimped character. Stop it!

[vlc]

For the Sake of REAL Diversity - go for SCS!

Makes everyone unique and have a deeper 'connection' to his character.
If you want to experiment you can still check it out - it's just that it is not as easy as you're used to it.

Take responsibility!
Even for the character you develop.

[cky123]

SCS is the best way to go in a game like this. I think that it will make the game so much more competitive knowing that you are fighting the great so and so or just some guy you saw in the woods.

[exil]

keeperofstars has a nice idea, although 5 days could be a little excessive. The main drawback of multiple chars per server is alts being useful enough to drive people away from trading with crafter mains or other types of mains. Any system limiting alts fixes this problem. Perhaps have a total skill pool per account, say you have 100 availible points on the account, the main has 70 then you only have 30 for anything else. If you want to test out a caster you test them till you run out of points, if you like it take some from your main, if not then take the points out and try something else or go back to your main. Points could just be the max you can advance the sum of the chars on your account and can't change. This is just a example and the number of skills could be changed to unlimited for one and limited for others or w/e, i just wanted to point out how easy it is to gimp alts as long as they are alts and not interfere with normal char gameplay.

[Sarmatian]

You couldnt be more wrong. Fear has nothing to do with it. If anything, SCS promoters are scred they wont be able to control everyone because they will have alternate characters. You want to know who everyone is so you can single out those whom you deed undesireable and target them. So if someone does get the better of you and kills you, you can tell your buddies to constantly attack them in an attempt to repair your damaged ego.

So everyone should just be anonymous toons?

I just think SCS is cool in the sense that if we really need some archers we go out and actually find some archers....not log onto our archer alts and shoot away.

The delay between switching chars sounds like a good idea though. Not any of that 5 minute UO b.s. however.

Surly brought up a great point in that if you have SRS everyone will have 100% specialized chars. They will be great at what they do and defeat anyone who isn't "specialized" or focused strongly on something. Skill points/choosing doesn't mean everything, but let's be honest.

When you have one char, you are making huge sacfrices to be able to carry out certain actions. It's a balancing act.

[Quantrell]

I think it is rediculous to have 1 anything on an MMOG. When you play them long enough you become bored and like to experiment. Having your options open keeps peeps interested. However if these are my only options :( I choose 1 race, multi chars..

This arguement is not valid in my mind. In UO I played a miner/armorer, a mage, a warrior, and even dabbled a bit in treasure hunting. I did it all on the same character. When I got tired of a skill, or decided I didnt want it anymore, I tried something new. My character was constantly evolving and constantly giving me new experiences. I may have not been uber leet in everything, but I had fun. Contrary to what some may think, being the best is not the only way to have fun.

[JunWF]

After reading through all the posts I would have to say that SCS seems like a better route. A lot of things I hadn't thought about at all have been brought up. I had forgotten there is no hard cap on skills so that you really can just retrain into another build if you don't enjoy the one you have.

[keeperofstars]

I am all for the account alignment piece thought was a great idea from the devs.

And can fit well into my suggestion, which allows for everyone to have everything they want, but prevents them from having it within 10 seconds.

The hardcore crafters will still have a market, cause the guy with the melee main has his crafter locked this week cause he made new gear over the weekend for his alts.

The smaller guilds / more casual players will have a chance to survive without having to have 5 alts to balance their guild out each night they play.

Will also make guilds learn to balance out, a bit, to be more effective, if they cant insta access all their accounts.

Doesnt nerf / hurt anyone as if you dont character jump you can instantly grab an alt, just realize you wont be able to insta jump back to your last logged on guy.

It will also cut down on the log on resource mule, fill house, log on crafter, use resources for main, log on main and pick up gear.

Could do it one night but then your resource guy, and crafter are all tied up, for the next 5 days. Which is not bad cause your main has gear now, but during those 5 days, will need to rely on others for help.

[Shadow Walker2020]

Says who? If you don't like crafting, train some combat skills to go with it. Or just retrain yourself completely. It isn't hard. Like I said before, it's Darkfall not WoW. You're just afraid of being "stuck" with a gimped character. Stop it!


Do you ever get tried of being wrong. I want to have multiple charatcers so I dont have to bog one character down with all of these skills.

With SCS, after one year, everyone will have the same skills. Youll see the same templates cropping up all the time. It will be warrior/mage/crafter, warrior/mage/crafter over and over. No one, and I mean no one, wants to be stuck playing one style of character. Alot of players also dont want to have to retrain their character all the time just so they can experience a new plart of the game. Players want to be able to mix different characters with different skills and not have to constatnly retrain one character over and over again. SCS is the most limiting and game killing system the devs could go with. And, with the soft cap, it gets harder and harder to gain new skills as you go along. Players will be stuck in a perpetual grind to gain all of these skills on one character so they can experience the game. Players are not going to want to drop skills they busted their butts to get either.

[Quantrell]

I am all for the account alignment piece thought was a great idea from the devs.

And can fit well into my suggestion, which allows for everyone to have everything they want, but prevents them from having it within 10 seconds.

The hardcore crafters will still have a market, cause the guy with the melee main has his crafter locked this week cause he made new gear over the weekend for his alts.

The smaller guilds / more casual players will have a chance to survive without having to have 5 alts to balance their guild out each night they play.

Will also make guilds learn to balance out, a bit, to be more effective, if they cant insta access all their accounts.

Doesnt nerf / hurt anyone as if you dont character jump you can instantly grab an alt, just realize you wont be able to insta jump back to your last logged on guy.

It will also cut down on the log on resource mule, fill house, log on crafter, use resources for main, log on main and pick up gear.

Could do it one night but then your resource guy, and crafter are all tied up, for the next 5 days. Which is not bad cause your main has gear now, but during those 5 days, will need to rely on others for help.

Im not going to trash talk you or anything like that, I am just curious why it is that you dont want to actually take a side. I interpreted the question to be,

which do you want? SCS or SRS.

not,

which do you want? SCS or SRS with modifications.

I understand that there maybe a better way or even a middle ground. But if you had to choose one or the other, what would it be and why?

[Sarmatian]

What if I am on my crafter and some freak accident happens and I am logged off. Now I can't use my crafter for another week?

[Jangang]

I don't like toons that "do everything". So if its 1 char per server I just have to buy several accounts. Something I'd rather not do, and something I'm not sure I'm willing to do having waiting so long now.

[Shadow Walker2020]

Im not going to trash talk you or anything like that, I am just curious why it is that you dont want to actually take a side. I interpreted the question to be,

which do you want? SCS or SRS.

not,

which do you want? SCS or SRS with modifications.

I understand that there maybe a better way or even a middle ground. But if you had to choose one or the other, what would it be and why?

there is a middle groud to all of this. Do it the way UO did it with Seige Perilous. Have servers that only let players make one character and have ones that allow for players to have multiple characters. That simple.

[Sarmatian]

Do you ever get tried of being wrong. I want to have multiple charatcers so I dont have to bog one character down with all of these skills.

With SCS, after one year, everyone will have the same skills. Youll see the same templates cropping up all the time. It will be warrior/mage/crafter, warrior/mage/crafter over and over. No one, and I mean no one, wants to be stuck playing one style of character. Alot of players also dont want to have to retrain their character all the time just so they can experience a new plart of the game. Players want to be able to mix different characters with different skills and not have to constatnly retrain one character over and over again. SCS is the most limiting and game killing system the devs could go with. And, with the soft cap, it gets harder and harder to gain new skills as you go along. Players will be stuck in a perpetual grind to gain all of these skills on one character so they can experience the game. Players are not going to want to drop skills they busted their butts to get either.


500 skills...and everyone will have the same template? I doubt it.

The point is not that I will have to constantly go from warrior/melee/crafter, but that I will choose pvp char over a crafter or a mix and buy/borrow/trade for the resources/items in which I cannot make or obtain.

With one character, I won't be stuck to the same style for years...I will be constantly gaining skills I want and more importantly constantly adapting to my peers to be able to keep up.

I don't like toons that "do everything". So if its 1 char per server I just have to buy several accounts. Something I'd rather not do, and something I'm not sure I'm willing to do having waiting so long now.

But you do like accounts that have 5 chars so you can "do everything"?

I favor SCS, but I will definately not be buying mult accounts. Just not worth it for me.

[keeperofstars]

you can log on and off the same character as many times as you want.

Its when you log off the archer and then log onto your melee that the timer starts.

While I am taking a middle ground it seems, I am just providing a possible suggestion which meets both needs from both sides.

If however the devs put a poll up and forced me to choose one or the other I am for the SCS side, more then multiple

I hate when I am nerfed because I dont have the time to powerlevel 5 alts to support my main.

[Rokolith]

Players can always buy a second account and still be able to spy. And dont tell me no one will do this, because they will.



Again, all the person will need to do is buy a second or third account.

You contradict yourself here. You say that the loot is in constant threat of being taken, yet, you say that just because the loot in on an alternate character, it becomes instantly safe. Whats to stop players from killing the alt and looting them? Answer, nothing.

Second, if someone wants to store there stuff in a non lootable bank, all they have to do is make it to an NPC controled bank in an NPC town that cannot be taken by clans. You dont need an alt to do that.



Your main, evil character, will be hunted every time they log on. Since the only way to gain alignment with your race is to kill either racial enemies or evil members of your own race, evil players will be the soup de jour of glory hounds since they will have the easiest time getting to them. And if that person does not log that evil character on ever again, youve basically won against them. Youve forced them to have to basically give up that character. Its kind of like perma-death for that character. And even if they deicide to log that characer back on, they will still be evil. There are no murder counts in Darkfall. The only way to get rid of that evil status is to log that character on and go kill racial enemies or other evil characters.



It trivializes nothing. That character, if evil, will be branded. Everyone will know that character is evil and will attack it on sight. Multiple characters just doesnt limit that player to having to play evil. Even then, all they would need to do is create a second account and then they will still get to play both good and evil. What then becomes trivial is the reason they had to buy another account. So they can enjoy another part of the game, which is wrong and will only hurt Darkfall in the long run.

All of your arguments assume that many will have several accounts in Darkfall. Some will, but I think you are overestimating. Just becasue a character has done evil things to be evil does not mean that if they're killed they are like that forever, or that they will have perma-deathon any way. There are neutral towns, evil towns, there will be a place for evil alignments. When your character is logged off, they cann't be killed and looted, no? From how I understand it is that you will bank in a select towna t a select bank, and if that bank is taken over you will lose some items, maybe all as a result of the town with the bank you placed your items in demise. Having the items transfered top another character,and having them log out, in most game makes the character unable to kill and loot. I am speculating on the banks, and you are speculating that alts will be killable when logged off. I didn't contrdict myself, because if all of your items are on one character, then they are not safe, because they will always belong to you and the bank you place them in. If you place them on an alt and log them off, making them unable to kill until you need the items from them (AKA trade items to a friend then back to you) it makes it so that people will have an advantage of having an alternate character sitting in a city holding your items for safekeeping. If every time a guy dies and he wants to play a different character without his mains alignment, he will not go and shell out however much it costs to buy darkfall, thens support a new account because of this. Of course I'm not saying that a small group of people WILL have alternate accounts, but by giving everybody the option to have several characters it almost encourages spying, muling and game play without conceiquence.

If I am wrong, please correct me, I am not completley sure on the banking or offline ganking facotor, I have not read anything on the subject of offline ganking, and from what I understand banking is in debate?

[Surly]

With SCS, after one year, everyone will have the same skills.A more false statement has never been made. Have you even played any other MMOs before? WoW doesn't count.

Youll see the same templates cropping up all the time.Ok, with 500 fucking skills and spells, and such incredible diversity that Darkfall has... why the hell do you think this? It's silly. Darkfall's skill system is practically made for single characters. It's easy to change your skills, they're keeping the skill information under wraps so we'll have to explore the game for ourselves (which we'll accomplish in a matter of weeks with multi-characters), and any character can do anything.

It will be warrior/mage/crafter, warrior/mage/crafter over and over. No one, and I mean no one, wants to be stuck playing one style of character.You know, you might be right. I disagree with that 100%, but I can't say for sure it won't be that way. We should test it in the beta.

Alot of players also dont want to have to retrain their character all the time just so they can experience a new plart of the game. Players want to be able to mix different characters with different skills and not have to constatnly retrain one character over and over again.I've always been for player freedom. When you paint this picture as being something that's anti-player-freedom it makes me doubt myself a little bit. But then I remember this isn't a player-freedom issue, this is an pro-realism issue. You're sad that you might be limited to be one single person per account... fine, buy another account. The only thing this limitation will cause is for the vast majority of players, there will be only one character. The option exists to buy another account if you really GOTTA have another character for some reason.

SCS is the most limiting and game killing system the devs could go with. And, with the soft cap, it gets harder and harder to gain new skills as you go along. Players will be stuck in a perpetual grind to gain all of these skills on one character so they can experience the game.Perpetual grind? Hahaha, ok. I think the #1 feature in Darkfall is that there is next to no grind at all. 4 fresh newbs with no skill can kill a maxed out character, so why do you want to make it so that every character is equal to the next? I want diversity!

Players are not going to want to drop skills they busted their butts to get either.There's no grind in Darkfall! If you have to bust your butt for a character, the game's broke!

[paade]

SCS for me, if someone wants alts im sure there are more than 1 server to do that.

[Shadow Walker2020]

I don't like toons that "do everything". So if its 1 char per server I just have to buy several accounts. Something I'd rather not do, and something I'm not sure I'm willing to do having waiting so long now.


Unfortunately, thats how its going to be with SCS. No one is going to want to be stuck playing one only style of player. So they are going to load up their one character with skills from every style. Youll have warrior/mage/crafters everywhere. Not to mention players are going to be stuck in a perpetual grind getting up every single skill they ever wanted to try. And there will be players who will not want to give up skills to train up new ones and will have to fight against the soft cap as their skills go up slower and slower with each skill point gained. After about a year, maybe year and a half, youll have super characters walking around. Everyone will be a crafter/warrior/mage. And dont try and say it wont happen, because it will. It just stands to reason. And yes, there will be those who will not pile skills up on their character, but those players will be rare in occurance.

Atleast with SRS, we can have multiple characters and all of these skills can be divided up among different characters and each character can be unique. SCS is just asking for super, do everything, characters. 5 years down the road, everyone will have a super character. Smiths wont be needed because even if a character dies, they will be able to make their own armor. Atleast with multiple characters, if your warrior is on and it dies, its going to need to get extra armor and supplies. And if you cant get your crafter on, then your going to have to rely on another player to buy what you need.

[LanMandragon]

SCS!

I'm glad to see multi-race per server isn't even being considered.

Single character per server is my preference because it forces players to be only one person ingame. I'm all for accountability, and that will accomplish it. There's always the work-around of registering multiple accounts though, but that's always good for profits! It should also make the game more challenging, and it will make individual "roles" more important. In UO, everyone had a crafter mule... if people can't do that in Darkfall, it'll make crafters much more in demand. People will have to use a lot of teamwork if they can't just log on to their "spec" characters for specific tasks. And military organization on a large scale will also be enhanced because your armies will be static, and you will know (roughly) what types of units you can count on. I'm entirely in favor of single characters per server. I know a lot of people will be scared of the idea because it isn't "standard"... but people tend to just be pussies about new ideas, regardless of how awesome it is. Look at the big picture, single character per server is the way to go.


Surly has summed this up well for me. I want accountability and organization.

SCS please.

[Sarmatian]

Unfortunately, thats how its going to be with SCS. No one is going to want to be stuck playing one only style of player. So they are going to load up their one character with skills from every style. Youll have warrior/mage/crafters everywhere. Not to mention players are going to be stuck in a perpetual grind getting up every single skill they ever wanted to try. And there will be players who will not want to give up skills to train up new ones and will have to fight against the soft cap as their skills go up slower and slower with each skill point gained. After about a year, maybe year and a half, youll have super characters walking around. Everyone will be a crafter/warrior/mage. And dont try and say it wont happen, because it will.

No, No, No.

There will not be super Warrior/Mage/Crafters walking around. Yes, it is soft cap. Ofcourse it will reach a point that even with years of training you will NOT be able to have "everything" or even the best of the best of skills from all areas of classes.

Just because you have one char doesn't mean you load it up with every damn skill available. Not even with the majority of skills available.

It means you choose which skills you want and go with it. You deal with your weakness/inabilities and get aid from another PERSON whos strengths are your weaknesses/inabilities.

Atleast with SRS, we can have multiple characters and all of these skills can be divided up among different characters and each character can be unique. SCS is just asking for super, do everything, characters. 5 years down the road, everyone will have a super character. Smiths wont be needed because even if a character dies, they will be able to make their own armor. Atleast with multiple characters, if your warrior is on and it dies, its going to need to get extra armor and supplies. And if you cant get your crafter on, then your going to have to rely on another player to buy what you need.

lol no dude. This is some very bad reasoning. Refer to above text.

[pronkyou2]

SRS - Would depend upon if the other characters would be able to use the same bank and housing, othersuch. If not, I'd likely only use other characters to design a new look or to explore whilst keeping my original character right where they're meant to be. If I have a wasteable character, I can run into an enemy town naked and not give a damn, check out a few things, and die. Run around all over the place naked, collecting information. This could be a gameplay issue in the long run.

SCS - Would allow for quicker login, since you wouldn't have to select a character, just a server, but that's superficial anyway. Really I don't see any real advantages to having just one character other than for organizational reasons, but I also don't see disadvantages.

Honestly, I'd likely just go to a different server if I wanted to make a different playstyle if I couldn't use the resources my first character has access to. It's likely that I would have access to those resources though, so I

Vote SRS

We really don't have enough information though.

[Osirus]

I consider what could hurt the ingame world economy the most? What could hurt ingame diplomacy the most? imo, the answers are clear; allowing multiple characters.

Some like to have alts because they want to experience several aspects of the game!(can be done with scs), while some aren't ashamed to say they want alts for the sake of convenience. Yet some want that added layer of anonymity that multiple characters allow ... in addition to what the matrix provides(to some degree).

Anyway ... it's safe to say, that anyone who wants to have more than one account, will do so whether it's SRS or SCS ... however, SCS most certainly 'forces' those who want to have alts/mules, to buy additional copies/sub fees. Or they'll create 'toons' on other servers.

SCS gets my vote, but if the devs go with SRS ... I would like to see shared alignment and/or surnames.

Unfortunately, thats how its going to be with SCS. No one is going to want to be stuck playing one only style of player. So they are going to load up their one character with skills from every style. Youll have warrior/mage/crafters everywhere. Not to mention players are going to be stuck in a perpetual grind getting up every single skill they ever wanted to try. And there will be players who will not want to give up skills to train up new ones and will have to fight against the soft cap as their skills go up slower and slower with each skill point gained. After about a year, maybe year and a half, youll have super characters walking around. Everyone will be a crafter/warrior/mage. And dont try and say it wont happen, because it will. It just stands to reason. And yes, there will be those who will not pile skills up on their character, but those players will be rare in occurance.

Atleast with SRS, we can have multiple characters and all of these skills can be divided up among different characters and each character can be unique. SCS is just asking for super, do everything, characters. 5 years down the road, everyone will have a super character. Smiths wont be needed because even if a character dies, they will be able to make their own armor. Atleast with multiple characters, if your warrior is on and it dies, its going to need to get extra armor and supplies. And if you cant get your crafter on, then your going to have to rely on another player to buy what you need.

are you planning on playing solo? because this "Atleast with multiple characters, if your warrior is on and it dies, its going to need to get extra armor and supplies. And if you cant get your crafter on, then your going to have to rely on another player to buy what you need." screams ... 'I don't want to depend on other people!', which hurts the ingame economy.

[stalwart]

A more false statement has never been made. Have you even played any other MMOs before? WoW doesn't count.

Ok, with 500 fucking skills and spells, and such incredible diversity that Darkfall has... why the hell do you think this? It's silly. Darkfall's skill system is practically made for single characters. It's easy to change your skills, they're keeping the skill information under wraps so we'll have to explore the game for ourselves (which we'll accomplish in a matter of weeks with multi-characters), and any character can do anything.

You know, you might be right. I disagree with that 100%, but I can't say for sure it won't be that way. We should test it in the beta.

I've always been for player freedom. When you paint this picture as being something that's anti-player-freedom it makes me doubt myself a little bit. But then I remember this isn't a player-freedom issue, this is an pro-realism issue. You're sad that you might be limited to be one single person per account... fine, buy another account. The only thing this limitation will cause is for the vast majority of players, there will be only one character. The option exists to buy another account if you really GOTTA have another character for some reason.

Perpetual grind? Hahaha, ok. I think the #1 feature in Darkfall is that there is next to no grind at all. 4 fresh newbs with no skill can kill a maxed out character, so why do you want to make it so that every character is equal to the next? I want diversity!

There's no grind in Darkfall! If you have to bust your butt for a character, the game's broke!

i really dont think any of this can even be discussed until we actually get to experience it for ourself. there has to be some kind of grind, and some kind of penalty for switching skills, SOMETHING. and i dont think this debate is really valid until we get to experience the game and the advantages and disadvantages of SRS vs SCS.

that being said, i REALLY didn't like SCS in star wars... that was awful. sure, you can be a crafter, but you dont get to experience the benifits of your work... so that really took it out of that part of the game for me.

if you tell me that we can be crafter and fighter, so that we can experience the benifits, i better not be gimped AT ALL in either one, or i'm not going to do it. and if you aren't gimped at all, then what's the point of SCS?

[Surly]

i really dont think any of this can even be discussed until we actually get to experience it for ourself. there has to be some kind of grind, and some kind of penalty for switching skills, SOMETHING. and i dont think this debate is really valid until we get to experience the game and the advantages and disadvantages of SRS vs SCS.

that being said, i REALLY didn't like SCS in star wars... that was awful. sure, you can be a crafter, but you dont get to experience the benifits of your work... so that really took it out of that part of the game for me.

if you tell me that we can be crafter and fighter, so that we can experience the benifits, i better not be gimped AT ALL in either one, or i'm not going to do it. and if you aren't gimped at all, then what's the point of SCS?
Well, Star Wars was a grind game. It took you for-fucking-ever to get a character "up to snuff." That alone would make it horrible. But that's why I would have never supported SCS in any game other than Darkfall, ever. This game just begs for it though. For the first time, we could have a game with a realistic economy and population. No more lack of "civilians", no more self-sufficient players who don't need to rely on anyone else, no more spec groups, no more FotM.

I'd hate to see this opportunity go to waste.

[Icix]

I think, in the general interest of the game, not to have a single race or character per server. I think people might want to try new things without having to leave their existing guild. I know that I would get bored playing the same race/char for a long time, but I wouldn't want to feel punished for trying something new.

[exil]

If alts and mules arnt restricted by dynanimics like skill decay then i aggree with surly, but as long as you cant have "high end" crafters and what not as alts srs would be harmless for the most part. While giving players more experimenting room with what they want to play and messing around.

[Norse]

At this point how is this even somthing to discuss? Anyone, including the devs that believe one character per account is a good idea, is stupid or stoned.

[Osirus]

i really dont think any of this can even be discussed until we actually get to experience it for ourself. there has to be some kind of grind, and some kind of penalty for switching skills, SOMETHING. and i dont think this debate is really valid until we get to experience the game and the advantages and disadvantages of SRS vs SCS.

that being said, i REALLY didn't like SCS in star wars... that was awful. sure, you can be a crafter, but you dont get to experience the benifits of your work... so that really took it out of that part of the game for me.

if you tell me that we can be crafter and fighter, so that we can experience the benifits, i better not be gimped AT ALL in either one, or i'm not going to do it. and if you aren't gimped at all, then what's the point of SCS?

is SWG a class/profession based game? because Darkfall isn't, means you can craft your own gear, then sell and/or use it.

the point of SCS is geared towards player accountability more so than anything else, but there are other underlying issues that many completely ignore ... I call this the 'my needs > the needs of the world' syndrome(as related to Darkfall).

[Zeltarg]

SCS

1) Most importantly, if you kill someone or just go around killing people, they need to option of coming back to you kill you. I think that there will be less opportunities for revenge if the enemy can just log an alt.
2) It makes the game more realistic, for both yourself and other people. It also means that you have more people with dedicated roles, such as sailing or providing other specialised services.
3) People remember your name, and you remember other people's names. After playing the game for a while and meeting the community, you will know what to expect of certain people, and you can get a much better reputation system based on whether your good or bad.
4) I'm not sure how important this is, but it takes up less room on the database :rolleyes:

[Osirus]

I think, in the general interest of the game, not to have a single race or character per server. I think people might want to try new things without having to leave their existing guild. I know that I would get bored playing the same race/char for a long time, but I wouldn't want to feel punished for trying something new.

I imagine there will be more than one server post release?

[Haro]

I guarantee you if they allow multiple characters on the same server, I will do exactly as Surly said (and I'm assuming other will to). I will make my main fighter with what I feel is all the best skills for PvP combat. I will make a PvE grinder to farm reagents/components. I will make a crafter to supply my guys with equipment (so I don't have to pay someone to do it), and depending on how the game works out I may even have a transporter toon so I can get from A to B without getting killed.


This pretty much sums up why I vote for Single Character per server.

I always hated the use of alts in Shadowbane. Logging onto different toons for different tasks, or different fights. It removes a huge amount of the immersiveness of the game, when individual characters are really nothing more than tools in a player's toolbox. I like the fantasy and lore elements of the game, and the at least partial suspension of reality. I think these things are vitally important to even have reasons to pvp other than simple-minded epeen wars.

Although, the timer idea someone else suggested seems like it may be a good compromise. An 8 hour timer between when characters on the same account can be logged on, would keep many of the more common "abuses" of multiple alts from happening.

As others have pointed out, this won't keep people from two-boxing. But nothing will keep them from two-boxing. But if people want immediately accesible alts on the same server, then they will have to pay another subscription for it (which is more money for DF and thus a benefit for everyone). And even then, they'll still only have access to ONE other alt from the second account. Again, the limitation will still be mostly effective.

Single character per server. Or single race per server with multiple characters allowed, but a long (8 hour) timer between when those characters can be logged on.

[Futurity]

I think 1 character per server is the way to go in the game like DF.

When there is many characters per server players tend to go easy mode and use additional characters for: trading, tailoring(dont have to go back to merchants etc), for spying(its easier to plant a spy in enemy clan).

But whats most important is the issue of fake identity. One second you are killed by a PKer and next second you have nice chat with him on his second character. Players like that can easly escape responsibility for their actions.

For the record i dont believe in aligment that much i care more about individuals. Player can scam me once and i will remember him for long time and its something that cant be measured by in-game aligment metter :). Of course its all lost if he goes on his alt.

With multi chars per server players tend NOT to care about their reputation.

[Surly]

I think one of the biggest fears is that having one character will leave you gimped... but it's not being "gimped" if everyone else is abiding by these rules. If you make a 100% PvP character, you're probably going to win a fight with some one who isn't as dedicated to PVP with their build. But that's the way it should be, a pure warrior should be able to kick a crafter hybrid's ass in a melee fight. Still, remember that 4 complete newbies with no skills trained at all can kill a fully trained PvP veteran with all the best gear and skills. So it's not that large of a rift.

[Shadow Walker2020]

A more false statement has never been made. Have you even played any other MMOs before? WoW doesn't count.

Other MMOs I played? UO, from T2A-AOS, then quit. Tried some others, but none of them added up to what I played in UO. Never played WoW, didn't appeal to me.

Ok, with 500 fucking skills and spells, and such incredible diversity that Darkfall has... why the hell do you think this? It's silly. Darkfall's skill system is practically made for single characters. It's easy to change your skills, they're keeping the skill information under wraps so we'll have to explore the game for ourselves (which we'll accomplish in a matter of weeks with multi-characters), and any character can do anything.

Thats right, one character can do anything. That means the game will lead to super characters who can do anything ruling the game. No one wants to only play one specific character style. And alot of players dont feel like having to constantly drop skills and raise new ones over and over again to experience new things in the game. Its just as bad as having to re-role the character and does contribute to a perpetual grind as players will have to constantly gain skill. With that in mind, it makes sense that players would jsut make ultimate hybrid characters that can do anything so they dont have to worry they are missing out on anything. Youll have characters that can craft their own armor, cast devistating spells, and be able to swing a mean axe, sword, mace, etc. Of course, to get all of these abilities, its going to take time, alot of it. Now whats it called when it takes alot of time to gain skills? Oh thats right, GRIND.

You know, you might be right. I disagree with that 100%, but I can't say for sure it won't be that way. We should test it in the beta.

Of course Im right. It stands to logic.

Test it in beta? Thats gong to take alot of time. Why do you think the devs are here with this for this begging-for-a-flame-war debate?


I've always been for player freedom. When you paint this picture as being something that's anti-player-freedom it makes me doubt myself a little bit. But then I remember this isn't a player-freedom issue, this is an pro-realism issue. You're sad that you might be limited to be one single person per account... fine, buy another account. The only thing this limitation will cause is for the vast majority of players, there will be only one character. The option exists to buy another account if you really GOTTA have another character for some reason.

Pro-realism? :lmao: Well buddy, if you want realism, your in the wrong place. Last I checked, this is a fantasy MMORPG. You want realism then you should be opposed to the dwarves that you seem to want to play as. If you want Darkfall to be completely real, then get rid of the dragons and stuff while your at it. Get rid of agon too and change it to england. Get rid of the mages, warriors, and other fantasy stuff too. Then we can play just like real medieval england, as serfs farming turnups all day, from dawn til dusk. Yeah, thats sounds like real fun.:rolleyes:.

No, its not about realism, its about fun. And Freedom = Fun.

Forcing players to have to buy a second account just so they can play more than one character per server is one of the worst ideas I have ever heard. If the devs do that, it just means they are greedy and dont care about the game. There are going to be players who cannot afford more than one account. Its unfair to alienate them and cuts back on the potential player base of the game. Its also unbelieveably lame to make that the primary reason to have to buy more than one account and will give Darkfall a black eye.

Oh, and as for having to need more than one character, what about those, like myself, who will be sharing our accounts with our brothers and sisters and possbily friends? The game is only going to have one server. So, im supposed to share my one character with my brothers and sister and my friends? Screw that.

Perpetual grind? Hahaha, ok. I think the #1 feature in Darkfall is that there is next to no grind at all. 4 fresh newbs with no skill can kill a maxed out character, so why do you want to make it so that every character is equal to the next? I want diversity!

There's no grind in Darkfall! If you have to bust your butt for a character, the game's broke!

Two words here, Soft cap. The more skills you have, the harder it is to gain skill points. Its all going to pile up and a grind will occur. No, there is no grind.... at first. But as you progress, it gets harder to gain skill. You have to train longer and harder just to gain simple skill. Thus, the grind occurs.


I must also add that a multiple character per server system appeals to a greater player base in the MMO community. Its one of the things thats keeping UO going. And, even with a multiple character system, who says that you need to make multiple character? Players still have the option of making only one character. But they also have the option of making multiple characters too. It appeals to everyone. Just because you like to play only one character doesnt mean that other do too. Your tastes should not be forced on others.

Multiple characters offeres more freedom. The more freedom a game offeres the more fun it is. The more fun the game is, the better it will do.

[Sarmatian]

It would be nice for the devs to chime in :lmao: so we can see what they are thinking and have a better discussion imo.

I figured they would just keep it SRS, and probably will, so w/e.

[Shamoke]

I usually do not make alts in the games I play. I make a single character and play him the majority of the time. Everytime I tried an alt I either didn't level it up, or I did and did nothing with it. So it doesn't hurt me having only one character per server. I usually just stick with one type of character. I think players should be accountable for their actions, a major plus from SCS. But I do know that many people like making alts all the time. It is a tough topic, but I will stick with one character either way.

[Shadow Walker2020]

I imagine there will be more than one server post release?

yes, a while after post release, if the game does well. Untill then, the game is only going to have one server. SCS hurts that alot. The game has to succeed before more servers can be added. And the game will not succeed with SCS. MCS SRS is the better way to go.

[iza]

keeperofstars's solution is the best; everybody wins.. no downside.
What about 1 race per server and one ACTIVE character at one time.

You can have multiple characters and can switch to any of them, but you cannot switch back to that character for 5 days. (Time negotiable)

So you make your uber sword melee asskicker, but then want to see what a few spells are like,

Well you create a new character MrSpellsalot and start playing him, after a bit you go yeah not so much my cup of tea. I think I will go back to my melee. You log off and log on your sword melee asskicker.

And MrSpellsAlot is now locked for 5 days meaning you cannot log on as him till the timer is up.

You go hmm damn I want to make a crafter as well, ok you do but same thing with mage.
I am sure you guys get the point now.

What this does though is allow people to have multiple characters to try out different things, but really prevents them from having 5 mule characters, or having fast access to a melee, a healer, a caster, type character all within 10 seconds.

So it allows for the multi character setup but without making it unbalanced or economoy breaking.

[Sarmatian]

Thats right, one character can do anything. That means the game will lead to super characters who can do anything ruling the game.

For the last time...Just because there is a soft skill cap, I highly doubt you will be able to have SUPER CHARACTERS-even after 5 years.

:idea:

You say SCS will cause forever grinding. Having five fucking chars will cause forever grinding too. And yes, there will be grinding in Darkfall.

So we can either have one char WHO CANNOT BE A SUPER MEGA UBER CHAR, or a person playing one account with 3+ chars who can do a hell of alot more than the person with one char. Hmm...

[Osirus]

yes, a while after post release, if the game does well. Untill then, the game is only going to have one server. SCS hurts that alot. The game has to succeed before more servers can be added. And the game will not succeed with SCS. MCS SRS is the better way to go.

come on now, be honest .... SCS does not hurt the game ... it hurts a particular play style ... in this case, your's.

[Surly]

Two words here, Soft cap.I get what you're saying about the scaling soft-cap, but you're failing to realize that a single skill point doesn't mean much. Who's going to spend time pushing their soft cap up to astronomical levels when it's just going to decay when they stop training it? Who's going to bother with that much work when +10 skill points isn't going to give you an edge over anyone else? I don't know, and neither do you. It needs to be tested.

I think they should test SCS by releasing the game with single characters! But that's why we have beta, if you're unsure about things like this it should be tested before release.

There are too many benefits to SCS to leave it by the wayside. The only reason anyone likes SRS is because they're scared they'll be limited or gimped. And that just isn't the case.

[Osirus]

keeperofstars's solution is the best; everybody wins.. no downside.

have to admit ... it is a grand compromise indeed.

[Scottc1988]

I know multirace would be bad and all, but I would really like to be able to explore the world of Darkfall without having to sneak around. Keeperofstars' idea sucks btw. Limitations are bullshit, especially time limits on switching between two characters. Have multiple character slots same race if thats as much as it can be, but don't make us wait to switch between characters.

[TizzyFoe]

last i we heard there was only going to be one server at launch so I'd say SRS, but if theres going to be 2 or more servers I'd definatly want SCS.

[Jangang]

This was supposedly decided on alrady years ago, and now its just all the sudden not... Makes me wonder what the fuck I've been wasting my time here for. SCS is dumb as fuck.

[Sarmatian]

yes, a while after post release, if the game does well. Untill then, the game is only going to have one server. SCS hurts that alot. The game has to succeed before more servers can be added. And the game will not succeed with SCS. MCS SRS is the better way to go.

O rly?

How does being limited to one race at a time compare to one character on an account? I'm curious.

Having to delete my char before I can try a new race is a hell of alot more annoying than having one character imo. I understand the reasoning behind SRS as opposed to MRS, but I think saying SCS will hurt the chances of DF's initial success is stupid.

[nhpr]

The real question is: why do the devs care so much as to ask us this question now? Does this mean they're just hammering down the last few small details (which won't require much coding or implementation on their part either way) before beta? :)

[NyaR]

>SCS<
I do love the idea of having only one charecter to take care of, especially if game mechanics are taken into account. More then one account would allow you to log out charecters in different areas (I assume, YOU GUYS GIVE NO INFO) allowing you to log off while in the middle of sieging one city to defend your own from a counter-siege, etc. Multiple characters would also allow, if the names can be anonymous, a lot of betrayals and confusion. If you know that your guild is doing a loot transport you can jump them and steal it all, then log on to your other charecter and act as if nothing happened. Unfortunately, nobody here knows enough to say whether thats good or bad, only the devs have access to that information.

If the devs want a meaningful debate on the pros and cons of this subject they should release the following information:
~ How does transportation work; would one character be able to fight multiple fronts or is he glued down to a single area?
~ How does logging off work; will you be able to log off in one part of the world with one character and log in in a different part with a different char? This seems like a 'cheap' (and possibly faster/easier) version of teleporting.
~ Could having multiple chars logged off in different areas of the world, in accordance with guid forces stationed there (all fighters, you log your mage there - all mages, you log your fighter there, etc..) have severly adverse effects on the mechanics of the game? Would it be possible to work around that or is the game already pushed too far forward in one direction?
~ Would the softcap have adverse effects, in essence making having a Pure archer character have bigger damage bonuses then a character with multiple skillsets? After a certain point training a certain skill yields little benefits per large ammount of work, would skipping every single skill and making a pure defense archer char for defending your city walls be useful? Could you log that archer off when the gates are broken and log your main fighter in time to repel the attack wave?

Im sure the devs have considered most of these options, and i hope they realize that leaving this decision to a mostly uninformed community can have VERY BAD effects.

[JasonGR]

I vote for SCS (Single Character per Server) because:

Single Race per Server kills Roleplay,
Single Race per Server kills the economy,
because I dont want to hear again the famous Lineage2 quote "w8 here you noob ill find you with my high lvl character" after you kill someones alt!!! (ofc there are no levels in DF but some chars are better in combat than others).
So I kill your crafter? Hire an assasin to pk me till I beg for forgiveness not just log on your pvp char and hunt me!

We are talking about a massive multiplayer game here.Like in real life every one of us has an area of experty and we have to join the community(clan) to be able to live well(have armors,food,trainers) ,not just to be able to zerg others!

And something else.They never said anything about one char per account.Its one char per server and there will be many servers, so you can have your alts but in a diferent worlds.Ofc you wont have money or friends to help you,but why sould you have them?Its a new char in a new world!
This is a hardcore game after all!

EDIT:
(Ok i read your posts about the single server at release,but later other servers will go up.I dont think that you want to start your alts by the release of the game!!!)

[Kivek]

I am hoping the devs use SCS (Single Character per Server).


I do not want to see SRS (Single Race per Server) because as many other people have already stated I would not want to see the game turn out like shadowbane where everyone had a different character for different groups during different sieges etc... While it may have been fun to have a different character for every type of situation you could think of in shadowbane imagine for a second if they had limited it to one character per account.
I wanted to point this out because I doubt many people will be bringing this issue to light however I believe that duping in shadowbane ruined the game more than anything else... and I am sure that alot of people would agree with me. btw I would encourage anyone who gets a beta slot in darkfall to report any method of duping that you find to the devs so that they can fix it before release at this point this is one of my biggest concerns for darkfall atm..

If shadowbane had limited their servers to one character per account one of the biggest and I think best changes we would have seen involves DUPING yes people this is a problem in every mmorpg and whether you know how to do it or not it is being done, in shadowbane people could dupe on all of their characters 6 or 7 I think I do not remember the exact amount allowed per server however this greatly increased the rate that gold was being brought into the server because dupers could dupe 6-7x faster due to having multiple characters... I'll paint a little picture here say I have 1 million gold and 7 characters and I know how to dupe the next day I could have 1 million on all of my 7 characters not including the 1mil that I started with so now I have 8mil and on the 2nd day I can dupe that 8mil on all of my 7 characters and still have the original 8mil that I used to dupe with so I now have 64mil in just two days because I am using all of my characters to dupe.. you can figure out the rest of the pattern from there...

You do not need to agree with me because the above are facts that is what was happening in shadowbane and that is the speed in which gold was being duped and faster at time depending how many people were involved.. I will not go through the entire method nor will I assume that the same method will be used in darkfall however to believe that darkfall will be free from dupes is ignorant and by allowing more than one character it can sometimes favor exploits that are being used.


now for the more obvious reasons...

first off I'm sure the devs being "gamers" will already have a system in place to prevent players from logging out during combat however in the previous system in other mmorpgs people have still managed to escape death.

Lets say you were running around the world in darkfall and encounter another player you begin to attack him somehow he gets away and logs off now if hes only got one character on his account hes not going to be doing much in game for the duration that he is logged out, on the other hand if he has multiple characters hes going to log in one of his alts and begin playing the game imo thats retarted...


Lets spin it another way.. assume that we are allowed mroe than one character per account and that when you die inside your city you get teleported to another random location on the map away from your city similar to shadowbane.. Now lets say that I am the leader of a guild who is defending their city.. we have our mains in our city defending and half of my guild members die were being attacked from the north (previously before the siege I had all of my members log their combatant alts out on the north south east and west sides of our city.) I tell the half that are dead to log in their northern alts and attack the attacking team from the back instead of trying to get their mains back into the battle....

The above scenario is very real and could easily be setup.


You bring in alot of problems by allowing people to have multiple characters per account whether its the same race or not. IMO you should only allow people one character per account because it just makes the game experience that much better.

I'll stop this now because it is already to long... It sounds to me like the devs want to use one character per server which is the best decision in a game like this I for one will be upset if they decide to listen to the people who want multiple characters for multiple roles.

[Shadow Walker2020]

I get what you're saying about the scaling soft-cap, but you're failing to realize that a single skill point doesn't mean much. Who's going to spend time pushing their soft cap up to astronomical levels when it's just going to decay when they stop training it? Who's going to bother with that much work when +10 skill points isn't going to give you an edge over anyone else? I don't know, and neither do you. It needs to be tested.

Thats right. The skills will decay. Players will be having to constantly keep their skills up, especially those who have crafting skills mixed with warrior skills. If you played UO, and by that I mean T2A, youll remeber that only the armor crafted by GMs sold well. Apply the same principle to Darkfall. Those who are hybrid, and SCS promotes more hybriding that you think, with warrior skills and crafter skills be be constantly trying to keep those crafter skills up so they can either stay in competion with other crafters or so that they can keep themselves supplied in the best possible armor and weapons without having to buy off of other players.

I think they should test SCS by releasing the game with single characters! But that's why we have beta, if you're unsure about things like this it should be tested before release.

Testing SCS will only slow down the release of the game. They should go with what they know works, MCS. A perfect example of a game that has lasted the test of time and had MCS, UO. The only thing that killed UOs economy was the implimentation of the runic tools and artifacts. Other than that, everything was fine, despite the MCS.

The devs played UO, they should know this.

There are too many benefits to SCS to leave it by the wayside. The only reason anyone likes SRS is because they're scared they'll be limited or gimped. And that just isn't the case.

Fear has nothing to do with it. The devs even said that you cant gimp a character in Darkfall. The only thing is no one wants to be stuck playing one type of character. They also dont want to have to train up skills constantly every time they want to play a new style of character. And yes, a grind will occur from that. So, to solve that, players will pile on skills. And a grind will occur from that due to the soft cap. Buying another account is an option, but to have to do so just to gain one more character? Thats rediculous and no one will do it. It wont be worth the money and it will hurt the game by giving it a bad rep as a rip off.

[Shadow Walker2020]

O rly?

How does being limited to one race at a time compare to one character on an account? I'm curious.

Having to delete my char before I can try a new race is a hell of alot more annoying than having one character imo. I understand the reasoning behind SRS as opposed to MRS, but I think saying SCS will hurt the chances of DF's initial success is stupid.


And having to have to constantly drop skills and pick up new ones to try different styles of charact isnt annyoing?

Atleast with SRS, you can try different styles of character without having to re skill one over and over again. And, if you do buy a second account, youll be gaining access to a new race on that one server, and additional multiple characters.

With SCS, not only will you have to reskill the character, but youll have to delet it and remake it as another race. SCS just brings up too many problems.

[Alphacod]

Single Character isnt an issue, if were allowed to build a character that can learn various skills and continue to develope I dont see an issue with Single Characters, this would prevent bad reputation type individuals from masking themselves to do it again, and I strongly believe the issues of doing trickery and trying to trick people will be less then other games because now there stuck with only 1 character and rules will be enforce better! Single Race, limits the possibility of guilds with Human/Dwarf guilds and such. That would be to stale.

[Kamadrion]

One character per server is just fine. you don't have levels, so you can learn and do anything you want. You are forced to focus on your charactcer instead of bunny hopping between chars depending on your current needs.

One race per server is simply stupid. Many guilds, including our guild has multiple race members. I am certain, many other guilds are like that.

SCS yes
SRS HELL NO

[Sarmatian]

And having to have to constantly drop skills and pick up new ones to try different styles of charact isnt annyoing?

For me, not one bit. When I make my character I will know what direction I want to go in. I will start to aquire skills, train them up, see which skills work best with other skills and go from there. If a particular skill isn't helping me, I will ditch it and move onto something better. My character will be in a constant change for the better; adapting to the competition and fine-tuning my skillset along the way.

I won't be dropping skills I worked for because one day I decide I want to craft weapons. I will get my ass into town and buy some weapons. You know, use other players strengths to aid in my weakness/inability.

[Axeman88]

I have to agree that SRS would NOT be a smart move.

Multi race guilds would be impossible if only 1 race was allowed on the server.


SCS I feel would be perfect!

I know alot of ppl have stated that they would hate it because they would be stuck with the same character/race & would get bored. Or that they would not be able to have 1 character to be a spell caster & another as a full blown melee character.

Well I think you should focus on what you want. If you need a Spell caster, then get someone from your guild that IS a spell caster to join you. The way Darkfall is setup you can learn anything.. So you could be both really. Just will take longer to get both skills up to par.

The SRS idea is a terrible idea.. Except for a all human guild or all of any 1 race.

[Brandulfr]

One character per server.

In UO you could have multiple characters, and I think it took away from the game. Same with WoW. If you want a player run economy and some competition...I would say ONE character per server.

It makes the worlds merchants more important..who will need merchants after a while when everyone can make an alt and just raise their skill and do it themselves. If you want a merchant class and a player run economy...NOT an alt run economy...limit the characters to ONE per server.

Simple! :D


:ninja:

[Galdred]

What about 1 race per server and one ACTIVE character at one time.

You can have multiple characters and can switch to any of them, but you cannot switch back to that character for 5 days. (Time negotiable)


I like keepersofstars idea and fully support it. It would be a nice compromise, although 5 days looks like overkill.


Otherwise, I'd rather have SRS if and only if it is explicitely forbidden to play with more than one account: I hated how Shadowbane encouraged people to have several accounts (I had read that about 30% of the players had several accounts). If we are limited to one character only per server for game balance, it should not be possible to pay more to bypass the limitation, or it wouldn't balance anything at all.

But it all depends on how the softcap works too: depending of the foruma used, it could be a strong deterrent to raise an alt's skills over his (although it would still be better to have a crafter mule regardless of the formula used).

[Kietharr]

I think it would be best one race per server, multi characters. But a twist, all characters would be forced to have the same surname on the same server, so if your main was Bobby Smith, if you tried to make a PK alt he would be (name here) Smith, and you would not get an option to pick your same server alt's last name unless you deleted all of your characters on the server.

[doma]

One race per server will do

[Ocoma]

SCS has my vote.

IMO I think everyone fighting about having specific types of fighting alts is ridiculous. The statement that everyone will just end up with the same warrior/mage/crafter template is kinda meaningless. Wether SCS or SRS every alt anyone makes, unless a 100% crafter mule, will have a combo of hand to hand and ranged abilities, a mix of melee and magic skills. It is pointless to argue that SCS will make everyone's templates the same hybrid mix when the skill system practically guarantees everyone will be some type of hybrid regardless. Everyone will have atleast 1 type of melee skill. Even "full mages" will need to train sword/dagger/hammer or something to fall back on when they are outta regeants/spell points. Everyone will have some type of ranged attack. Wether it be spells or archery or throwing items whatever. Without sometype of ranged attack you simply leave yourself vulnerable to being kited for an easy win everytime. Everyone will no doubt learn atleast somekind of basic healing ability for themselves as well. Every alt anyone makes will still be the same general hybrid build(melee/ranged/seer). SCS or SRS doesn't change that as it is a result of the skill system itself.

[Sarmatian]

I like keepersofstars idea and fully support it. It would be a nice compromise, although 5 days looks like overkill.


Otherwise, I'd rather have SRS if and only if it is explicitely forbidden to play with more than one account: I hated how Shadowbane encouraged people to have several accounts (I had read that about 30% of the players had several accounts). If we are limited to one character only per server for game balance, it should not be possible to pay more to bypass the limitation, or it wouldn't balance anything at all.

But it all depends on how the softcap works too: depending of the foruma used, it could be a strong deterrent to raise an alt's skills over his (although it would still be better to have a crafter mule regardless of the formula used).

At the same time, people can build 2-3k computers (I know, it's not needed for Darkfall) and spend $$$$$ on leet internet connections. I would never pay for multiple accounts but I'm not obsessed with gaming. If people want to spend money to get an edge, such is life :/

I also agree, KeeperofStar's idea about alt switching time delay is a good start to a compromise on the issue. If the Devs are even interested on anything other than SRS that is.

[Draconis]

Hi ! I was involved with DFOL fan fair as much as one could be 2 years ago and the same argruement came up.... single race or char per server.
Well, I've come back to the site - ever hoping for something better than WOW ....it's still not here, but good things take time. After playing WOW for some time now ...I must AGAIN say single toon per server with no cross over.
DF is about pvp and sudden death with total loot....let the game play on without ***this alt or that alt *** or guess who am I ? or ....oh I know you .... fuck that! ....DF = life as close as it comes ....play, die, get over it, and build your toon.

[Aramoro]

I have mixed feelings about this. On the SRS side having more than one char gives me the ability to be a full-on combatant and a crafter with the switch of a login or however set up. On the flip-side I think the in-game economy would be stronger with SCS as I feel there would be a higher "supply and demand" as I no longer have the option of crafting for myself. I think there will always be multiple account yielding subscibers, regardless of whether or not it makes sence or even has a purpose.

I would mostlikely stand by SCS over SRS...

[VidarDf]

SRS all the way. if i wanna make a tank character and have him set up with all melee skills without having to work on training up other skills, and i want a mage character that relies only on his mage skills. then i should have it

[Ammon777]

I vote for Single Character per Server, it would increase the effects of the accountability system (reputation) and overall would enhance the community because you would be known by your name and would be accountable to other players since they could identify who you are simply by remembering your name. Without that you would be stuck guessing about who you are really fighting because the increased anonymity (sp?) of everyone being a potential ALT character keeps accountability less away from the character and more away from the player.

The real question is, do we want accountability of the player?

or do we want accountability of the character?

I vote for accountability of the player, so i vote for Single Character per Server.

[Slinkinator]

i blame it on god.

[JimLad]

I'm gonna say 1 per server, mainly to preserve the ideal of even economy and player identity.
Anyone can learn anything anyway so one is all you need.

[cky123]

After reading all 9 pages im gonna have to say that SCS sounds like it would work out the best.

[Shadow Walker2020]

For me, not one bit. When I make my character I will know what direction I want to go in. I will start to aquire skills, train them up, see which skills work best with other skills and go from there. If a particular skill isn't helping me, I will ditch it and move onto something better. My character will be in a constant change for the better; adapting to the competition and fine-tuning my skillset along the way.

Yeah, for YOU. You can only speak for yourself. Alot of players dont feel like doing that.

I won't be dropping skills I worked for because one day I decide I want to craft weapons. I will get my ass into town and buy some weapons. You know, use other players strengths to aid in my weakness/inability.

Again, You wont be, but others will. Or, they will just pile on skills untill they can do everything. Then those of you who dont want that to happen will be bitching that too many characters are overpowered and are making your speciality character look like gimps. You jsut dont see the problems that SCS raises, do you? You just want everyone to be forced to play one way. New flash there pal, no one wants to do that. Players like having the choice to play more than one character. Its just how it is. Go with SCS and the devs will be cutting off their noses to spite their faces. They will be alenating the vast MAJORITY of players who prefer MCS and drastically reducing their potential player base. Instead of appealing to the majority and getting a serious player base, they will end up with a few followers making only a fraction of the reveneu they could have been. And thats how the devs have to look at it.


Also, SCS alienates those of us who have to share our account. I have two brothers and a sister who like to play MMORPGs. We shared accounts. With SCS, Id have to fork out 40 bucks a month for 4 characters just so I would be able to let my siblings play. 40 bucks for 4 characters? Ha, what a rip off. Atleast with MCS, the only reason Id have to buy another account is if I wanted to play more than one race on a server. Then Id be paying what, 20 bucks for 10 characters, assuming they give players 5 character slots. Half of those characters are human, and the other half could be whatever I wanted them to be. Or I might just want to have more characters for myself. Or my brothers and sister might want to have alternate charcters too. What about people who play with their wives and husbands on here? Your argument might be go play another server, well what if I dont want to? I found the server I like and I want to stay on it. I know the areas, I know the political situation. Why should I have to go to another server? Limiting players in such a way is bad for a game. SCS is too much of a hassle.

Now, Im not saying that there wont be those who will be forking out 10 extra bucks a month for ONE EXTRA CHARACTER. No, no, there will be. But those people are suckers. And word will get around about how much of a rip off the game will be. If you want to play more than one character on a server, you have to pay more money? If I know people are one thing, they are cheap and they will not want to play a game that costs them an arm and a leg just so you can have more than one character.

And what about people in clans? Im sure that every once in a while, they would love to just step back for a moment and take leave of the problems of their clan. Just strike out on their own for a while. But these players dont feel like having to re-start over on another server. What if they are established on one server and like it there? It seems a bit unfair that they would have to uproot themselves just for a couple of hours to themselves. With SCS, your bound to your clan for good. Even if you quit, either your former clan mates will harrass you for quitting, or members of a clan you were at war with will want to get even.

SCS just wont work. It too limiting. And, correct me if Im wrong, but werent the devs going for a game about freedom? Not trivial BS limitations caused by a system clearly designed for a game like Halo where there are no skills, clans, or any of the other aspects of an MMORPG?

[Tongue]

I had to go with single character per server.

One of the main things I like about multiple characters per servers in other MMOs is trying out all the classes the game has to offer. But in DF there are no classes, and at anytime you can change your skills and specializations. It really does cut down on my reservations on a single character per server.

Like someone said earlier in this thread, a single character per server makes you the character you are playing, and that is a refreshing idea no other MMO has tried that I have played (to some extent eve, but not exactly). No more rampant mules and buff bots that everyone and their mom playing the game has, which in turn makes players focused in crafting and other "jobs" feel somewhat useless. Lets face it, not everyone is going to buy multiple accounts, and in my view, the few who do will simply be financially supporting the game.

The spying issue is still a non-factor, since those same people would have bought multiple account under single race servers.

One other thing I liked about multiple characters was allowing family members and RL friends to play the game when I wasn't around playing. However, the same can be accomplished if they just play on a different server (which many times they did), since we would obviously never play together anyway. The only thing they might be missing out on is playing with my guild, but in my experience they never really liked playing with my guild and liked striking it out on their own. Even when they did buy their own account, playing with my guild was never the selling point.

[Sarmatian]

Or, they will just pile on skills untill they can do everything.

Once again, Soft skill cap doesnt mean one single char will be able to have EVERY SINGLE SKILL IN THE ENTIRE GAME-even after 3 years.

I was sure to say "For Me,...."

Yet you say everyone else feels ______________.

:idea:

I'd disect your post sentence by sentence but my laziness is winning :(

Give me acouple hours and I will muster up the energy.

[alfaroverall]

SCS for all the reasons already listed.
Edit: And because I don't want to see it all. I don't have a reason to. I would reroll in WoW simply because I was bored like mad. In darkfall, I don't see a need to experience every skill. I want to be able to give not just my character but my very identity in Agon a name. GIVE it a name, not have a preset name. If I use a 1 hand sword, shield, platemail, a lot of defensive skills, and a few offensive skills, I want to be able to call myself a knight and ROLEPLAY that. I suck ass at RP, but it's because I haven't had a game environment to properly try.

[Protonix]

I don't really care as long as last names aren't required.

[Shadow Walker2020]

Once again, Soft skill cap doesnt mean one single char will be able to have EVERY SINGLE SKILL IN THE ENTIRE GAME-even after 3 years.

No, they wont have every single skill in game, but they will have alot of them. An them you, and all your buddies, will be bitching about that.


the reaosn I can say that many feel the way I do, look at the past most successful MMORPGs. What was one thing the successful ones had in common? MCS.


Even then, all you have to do is look at all of the past polls regarding Characters per server:

http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=10595&highlight=Characters+serverPoll results after adding up all tallys: 289:615 Winner=Multiple characters

http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=9536&highlight=Characters+server Poll results after adding up all tallys: 61:109 Winner= Multiple characters

http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=15378&highlight=Characters+server Poll results after adding up all tallys: 210:361 Winner= Multiple characters

http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=26006&highlight=Characters+server Poll results: 58:68:22 current leader= Multiple characters.

And in each of these polls, voters were given the option of only one character per server.

Add all of that up and...... 621:1153 winner= Multiple characters.

I dont know why the devs even need to ask this question, it has been answered repeatedly in the past.

In each of those polls, the vast majority have voted for having more than one character. I grow weary of arguing this, ill let the stats speak for themselves. Devs, if you guys are reading this, check out the polls. you want to attract alot of players to your game, just look at the stats. Your question has been answered many times in the past. Multiple characters per server.

[Ammon777]

Once again, Soft skill cap doesnt mean one single char will be able to have EVERY SINGLE SKILL IN THE ENTIRE GAME-even after 3 years.
Actually, soft skill cap means that your char could possibly have every skill in the game, but would be limited in the skills effectiveness overall, dependant upon how much effort has been dedicated to raising skills. So you could have everything and be a jack-of-all-trades, but suck at most of them. There is nothing stopping you from getting every skill in the game -- except for limitations like skill trees, racial-limitations, and prestige class limitations -- but being effective with them against someone that is far more specialized with certain skills, is another matter.

A character can become specialized far faster than a character that learns everything and approaches the soft cap. To be specialized will have its bonuses. But so will knowing every skill. The beauty of the system is freedom, rather than limitations that class-based games impose for the sake of balancing by devs.

We are talking about 500 skills and 500 spells. Also, after three years the game will have many additional skills added with every patch / expansion, so you wont ever have every single skill in the game. Plus some skills require prerequisites that you will not meat, and other skills will require quests to be done or other prerequisites unachievable for that character (such as prestige classes)...

Soft skill cap means less skill gain from more effort. It all depends on how much you play. If you play the game an ungodly amount, you will have a larger skill pool than the average guy. You will be better with more skills. The point of making it a soft cap is so that the game doesnt end at a clear point, so that you dont reach the "well ive won the game, im highest skill and wont get any better" point.

Single character per server ftw.

[Koor]

single character per server.. In my opinion it makes for a better economy since every player in game won't have a mule they break out to craft their necessary items. Single character per server would mean you either go into town to find the items you need, or you are a mule yourself.

[Zerikin Loukbel]

Gonna have to say SRS on this.

[varius]

I support the SCS idea. To allow more than one character per server allows a person with enough time on his/her hands to create enough characters to meet every need in game. Limiting each account to one character allows players whom wish to focus their characters as crafters to better compete in the market, since there wont be any mule/gimp players who create a crafter as an afterthought to their combat characters. There is no strong argument as to why multiple characters should be allowed, since any player can gain/lose skills at any time if that player so desires. Sure, some people will want to be able to play every single skill template whenever they wish. They'll want to have a caster character, as well as a ranger, a crafter, a sailor, etc. It would be sad if this were possible. Games like Darkfall are fun because everyone has a different role in the MMO society. Allowing only one character per server will enforce this ideal and promote a stronger economic and social structure in game.

[Elandir]

Single Character per Server. Only possible concern I have is there being a lack of crafters. In a pvp game who wants to be the guy supplying all of the armor for the people doing the fighting :rolleyes:

[Suitepee]

One character per server. :D

Simply,avoids the use of people using alts and keyclones,and gives purpose to every character in the game.

Basically,if you allow one race w/ multiple characters,you're gonna get the following (in my opinion):

-Person makes a fighter character and a trader character. The fighter character trains hard in only combat skills,while the trader alt trains in only crafting skills.
Keycloning alts/multiple clients may be involved here,but basically the person's trader character somehow provides their own fighter character (maybe via a trusted 'friend' if no keyclone or dropped items in a secluded area) with their own crafting end products (swords,etc),without relying on other players interaction.
As a result,some players will only need themselves to provide their own economy. Ok granted,they may need protection still in some gathering areas,but sometimes it'd be little more than travelling with other crafters to the same area,and not a case of 'hiring' protection from NPC's or players. This will affect the economy to some degree; if players can both craft at max skill and fight at max skills without any hybrid,lowers the demand somewhat.
It may not be drastic,but arguably it means some people will never need to buy items from other people,as they can both fight and craft themselves.

-Use of alts to handle tough situations,and the devaluing of individual players. It'd be nice to see that if the going gets tough for your character,that you couldn't just use an alt to get around any reputation problems with your character.
Some people complained about how 'ghosting' could be used to scout enemy camps w/o penalty. Alts could be used in the same way,somewhat.
For example,your main belongs to a clan,and you happen to be the lead scout. One day your clan orders you to find out what their rival clan is up to regards the large shipment of iron they have just received. Problem is; your reputation means that you can't get within 5 miles of the enemy clan's base without being spotted and killed.
If alts were available,you could over time use an alt to gain the trust of the enemy clan,scout their camp and report it to your main's clan,then strike. They'd never know it was the hated main who did it.
It takes away from player interaction again; bribing the enemy clan players to leak secrets,or hiring a player spy. Nope,just roll on an alt and find out for yourself. Granted,it may not always be possible to do this,but one player could theroetically end up having several alts in prestigious positions in several big clans. And that's just plain wrong.
This would take away the value/reputation of each individual player that the game seems to aim towards; granted you could only have so many alts,but the fact that alts would be treated as different players (under smart hands) means that clans could be riddled with alts 'just to make up the numbers',and then you could tie this in w/ keylogging and multiple clients.

I just don't wanna see DF turn out like SB; keyloggers and alts everywhere these days it seems. Who's a real new player? Is that clan really 100 strong,or just 50 players using an alt each?
I'd like to know each and every player was their own man; it would encourage players to interact with each other and not rely on their own alts to master crafting,or sneak into an enemy clan. They'd have to do it themselves,or hire other players.

Just my thoughts.

[Sarmatian]

Actually, soft skill cap means that your char could possibly have every skill in the game, but would be limited in the skills effectiveness overall, dependant upon how much effort has been dedicated to raising skills. So you could have everything and be a jack-of-all-trades, but suck at most of them. There is nothing stopping you from getting every skill in the game -- except for limitations like skill trees, racial-limitations, and prestige class limitations -- but being effective with them against someone that is far more specialized with certain skills, is another matter.

A character can become specialized far faster than a character that learns everything and approaches the soft cap. To be specialized will have its bonuses. But so will knowing every skill. The beauty of the system is freedom, rather than limitations that class-based games impose for the sake of balancing by devs.

We are talking about 500 skills and 500 spells. Also, after three years the game will have many additional skills added with every patch / expansion, so you wont ever have every single skill in the game. Plus some skills require prerequisites that you will not meat, and other skills will require quests to be done or other prerequisites unachievable for that character (such as prestige classes)...

Soft skill cap means less skill gain from more effort. It all depends on how much you play. If you play the game an ungodly amount, you will have a larger skill pool than the average guy. You will be better with more skills. The point of making it a soft cap is so that the game doesnt end at a clear point, so that you dont reach the "well ive won the game, im highest skill and wont get any better" point.

Single character per server ftw.


Yes. I'm looking at it in a realistic sort of view. When you start gaining .1 every 20 hours....

Shadowwalker makes it sound like once you max out a skill, you move on to the next one...eventually maxing out the "class." Once this is done, you move onto the next class and max it out? It will not be like that. I doubt the devs would leave the forumla to allow players to become insanely uber after 4 or however many years of training. Why does this even matter though? WIth this type of reasoning, I could do this on SRS server too?

Shadowwalker, notice I have mentioned that I doubt it will be anything other than SRS. I have said many times I know the majority favor SRS. I am telling why I think it SCS is better.

Also, I don't really base the "facts" on outdated polls. Even so, this is probably a waste of time but I am curious as to why the devs have opened up the topic again.

[Malishan]

Single race per server, without a doubt. I'm fine with tieing them all in with one last name and alignment too, even make it one guild per server, just so long as I can have more than one character. Unless it is feasible to learn every spell school and every melee skill on one character, which shouldnt happen, you need more than one char per server.

[Mhorham]

For me the choice is wether or not I want to be forced onto a separate server, outside of my guild affiliations, to take a break from my character and escape into a different feeling character for a while.

I want to have multiple characters on a single server. I don't care if they have the same name or not. I just don't want to be stuck in one toon every time I want to play!

[Ammon777]

The devs didnt want poll results anyway, they asked for reasons.

[alfaroverall]

At all advocates of SRS that want it so one can experience it all-try a different server. If your goal is to experience new things with a new character, experience new people, new politics, etc. Don't just make it so your stronger char can "twink" your lower char. Granted, gear won't be huge and skills won't be huge, but nevertheless there IS gear, so twinking can still occur. And yes, I realize twink means underage homosexual and am amused by its every usage.

[Sarmatian]

Some peoples' gripe with SRS v. SCS is that everyone will just have a mule. This will happen no doubt. So what do we do?

We put a last name on everyone. All #_ chars will have the last name. Well, this prevents a person from being an infamous pker and a famous politician? Prevents Spying? ok...

What about the mules? Because my pker is so evil everyone will pk my defenseless crafter? No. My crafter will be safely tucked away in my guild's kingdom. At the least, my crafter will log on, make some shit for my main, perhaps collect some resources, never talk to anyone, and then log back off. No one other than my guild (or few people) will see my character, let alone his last name. Surname does jack shit in this instance.

[Osirus]

For me the choice is wether or not I want to be forced onto a separate server, outside of my guild affiliations, to take a break from my character and escape into a different feeling character for a while.

I want to have multiple characters on a single server. I don't care if they have the same name or not. I just don't want to be stuck in one toon every time I want to play!



you're always stuck in one toon everytime you want to play. :rolleyes:

[Relode]

SCS.

A lot of people in the earlier pages for SRS are talking about doing everything for themselves. You shouldn't be able to, you should have to rely on other people to cover your weaknesses. You should have to trade with other people to get what you need, not just be able to farm and make it yourself.

Also, SRS would basically allow teleportation. With two pvp chars you can be in one battle then logout and join another across the world if thats where you happened to have that char. It would destroy the whole realistic having to travel aspect of the game.

The arguements for SCS have just been all out better. Surly wins this debate.

[Shadow Walker2020]

Yes. I'm looking at it in a realistic sort of view. When you start gaining .1 every 20 hours....

Shadowwalker makes it sound like once you max out a skill, you move on to the next one...eventually maxing out the "class." Once this is done, you move onto the next class and max it out? It will not be like that. I doubt the devs would leave the forumla to allow players to become insanely uber after 4 or however many years of training. Why does this even matter though? WIth this type of reasoning, I could do this on SRS server too?

Players wouldnt have to do this if it were a SRS MCS system. They would be able to divide the skills among different charaters. It would avoid all grind completely as each character can focus on sepcific skills, instead of having to learn them all so to speak.

Shadowwalker, notice I have mentioned that I doubt it will be anything other than SRS. I have said many times I know the majority favor SRS. I am telling why I think it SCS is better.

And I am saying why SRS is the better way to go with the game.

Also, I don't really base the "facts" on outdated polls. Even so, this is probably a waste of time but I am curious as to why the devs have opened up the topic again.

I post those polls for reason. Because the topic has been raised many times. And each time, the devs qestion has been answered. the facts, though not as outdates as you think, are relevant. They give the devs a very good answer to their question so they can continue with the development of the game.

Believe me, your not the only one who wants to know why they are asking this question.......again.

[Deminion]

I am in favor of 1 character per server.

The idea of having a last name is a reasonable idea if there were multiple characters per server but honestly i don't want a last name for my character. My character name would not flow correctly with a last name.

The devs wrote "While we believe that Darkfall's skill system ensures never having to reroll a character, meaning that one character slot per world is enough" - so if there is no reason to have mutliple characters skill wise.

Since we can have trade skills on our mains without a penalty and we do not need mule characters due to the banking system, really is no reason for another character.

I would accept multiple characters if there was some way to prevent a person from joining an enemy clan, spying, and scamming by using another character.

[Yarias]

Just thought I'd bring up something that wasn't mentioned in the general course of this topic. If I remember correctly, the devs have said that they are making a game that they want to play. They admit that it will probably satasfy a niche market, and that some players will be turned off by the game.

According to these assumptions, I think it is reasonable that the devs care more about making a balanced and fun game than one that makes lots of profit. Personally, I'd like to see single characters per server, and obviously not everyone shares this opinion. Yes, if having multiple characters per account per server didn't have any impact on the game, sure, then why not include it? Unfortunetly both having multiple characters per account per server, AND the ability to purchase multiple accounts does affect the game.

My ideal game would be something in which each RL person can only have one character per server no matter how many accounts they could get (which is basically uninforcable, but this is me being idealistic). It helps, IMO, build a sense of community on the server. Under these conditions, if I did happen to want to try out another race or build I could either reroll my character, or create one on a different server. Another possibility for this ideal realm, so to speak, would be for one server to allow multiple chars per race and another with only one char per server.

I guess my point is the devs aren't making this game to be appealing to everyone, and probably the reason they have this topic is to get at what the community sees as the trade offs of allowing or disallowing multiple characters per server, because 1000 people brainstorming is better than just a small team of 30 or so.

I don't think their intention is to find out which choice is more popular.

[kehmesis]

SRS. It's pointless to only allow 1 character. Many power gamers will drop all the tradeskills in order to get the most our of their characters in combat. Having a trade mules is a must for many of us.

I would like to have same last name, however, for accountability. Or alligment sharing, though I find this lame.

[Sarmatian]

Players wouldnt have to do this if it were a SRS MCS system. They would be able to divide the skills among different charaters. It would avoid all grind completely as each character can focus on sepcific skills, instead of having to learn them all so to speak.

But why would I want to break it up when I can have a player with everything on it. Is everything shitty skill level in all skills? Is everything badass skill level in all skills? If I make a godly char on one char slot, that is > than it divided into multiple chars right?

So everyone should have the potential to do "everything" in the game pretty much? With so many skills maybe we wouldn't be able to do "everything" on only 5 chars. I dunno.

I want to pvp I build a great pvper.
I also want to pve to make gathering stuff so much faster. I make a tamer or w/e.
I also want to make a mule. Forget paying/talking/etc to get my stuff when I can craft it myself.
I also want to have a 100% mage.
And so on.

This is lame imo, ruins the immersion into the game, the community, etc.

As far as mult people not being able to share one account with SCS...I really don't care. That's 3 people that could be working to afford their own account. :/

I realize SCS has its drawbacks. I also realize it sucks in some aspects. I just feel that it would be better to have lol.

I knew the devs said it would be SRS for a while now. Ok, w/e. I am already planning to have a mule, a main, etc etc. Sure would be cool to have one main char to live and die by though.

[Osirus]

SCS.

A lot of people in the earlier pages for SRS are talking about doing everything for themselves. You shouldn't be able to, you should have to rely on other people to cover your weaknesses. You should have to trade with other people to get what you need, not just be able to farm and make it yourself.

Also, SRS would basically allow teleportation. With two pvp chars you can be in one battle then logout and join another across the world if thats where you happened to have that char. It would destroy the whole realistic having to travel aspect of the game.

The arguements for SCS have just been all out better. Surly wins this debate.

exactly! ... this particular MMO is very clan-centric ... meaning you have to depend on other people for everything from offensive/defensive support to purchasing goods/gear. it seems some of the SRS advocates want to be their own mini-clan.

I understand some people have siblings and so on ... but imo, Darkfall is not a kids game.

SRS. It's pointless to only allow 1 character. Many power gamers will drop all the tradeskills in order to get the most our of their characters in combat. Having a trade mules is a must for many of us.

and that's why you open up trade with an allied clan or merchants in the capital cities.

or build a jack.

I think some are having a hard time understanding the scope of this game and what the devs are trying to deliver.

[Ammon777]

Players wouldnt have to do this if it were a SRS MCS system. They would be able to divide the skills among different charaters. It would avoid all grind completely as each character can focus on sepcific skills, instead of having to learn them all so to speak.



And I am saying why SRS is the better way to go with the game.



I post those polls for reason. Because the topic has been raised many times. And each time, the devs qestion has been answered. the facts, though not as outdates as you think, are relevant. They give the devs a very good answer to their question so they can continue with the development of the game.

Believe me, your not the only one who wants to know why they are asking this question.......again.
I think you are placing far too much emphasis on the value of skills. The devs have said repeatedly that logistics, strategy, tactics, planning, situational factors, weather conditions, current area, guilds, items, armor, weapons, and character skill -- plus actual player skill -- will all have EQUAL footing on who wins a battle or not. Skills might define what you can do, but they are not nearly as important in Darkfall as they would be in, say, World of Warcraft or Everquest.

EDIT -- because of that, i believe the debate shouldnt be a skill-based debate, but is focused more meaningfully upon community interaction rather than single-player advantages.

[Valmora]

I vote for anything you want... multiple races, multiple characters per server...

HOWEVER... there should be some restrictions and I am not sure how you would guarentee that they worked...

You definately dont want some one logging out of one side of a battle and then logging in on the other side or two boxing both at the same time...

So only one character active per player at any single time on a server; possibly a time delay to login if they are swapping races.

If that player has two accounts then they can not create characters on the same server from both accounts.

My understanding is some races will be able to gather materials for example that other races can not or perhaps craft something so I would like the ability to do something with one character / race and then pass it off to another to use... it may not be easy to do but it should be able to be done.

Players will get around this one way or another; what they usually do is stay logged and then use teamspeak to tell the other side what to do and where players are going... its crap that they do this but no way to stop them legally that I know of...

[Trollsplosion]

I'll deal with either way, but I like the idea of SCS a bit more.
I've always hated 'twinks' and crafter-mules in MMOs. And if re-rolling isn't going to be an issue, I'd prefer not to give an advantage to the people who aren't skilled enough to play a single character well.
I am concerned for the scenario of "I'm a melee character, and I'd like to play a spellcaster", as that may be rather difficult to make a transition to in a skill system. Myself, I would just make a spellcaster on another server, it's not that big of a deal, and you won't have these lower, super-characters being funded by a "main". (Most people will usually choose a race based on their inherent class abilities anyway.)
I think SCS would be better for RP too, and will bring the server community closer together; kind of a "everyone knows everyone" situation.

Either way it goes, I'm just glad multiple races per server isn't even an option.

[Harmar]

SCS

You guys are crazy. From my understanding clan vs clan is going to be a big part of this game. Which means most people will be a part of a clan (or society). Maybe you should work on getting a diversity of people in your clan, someone that loves to craft, someone who loves to heal, someone who loves to PvP, someone who loves to build, and so on. If you don't want to do that, then maybe just maybe you could go to other clans and make an alliance. PEOPLE LIKE TO CALL THIS IDEA POLITICS. If you have every aspect of the game on one account then it will end up like shadowbane. Shadow Walker2020 sorry maybe you will have to make friends (obviously you failed at this mission in life). Even if you don't want to play with other players that's fine. Use your badass hybrid you keep talking about and go kill a crafter, and take his shit. Let's try out this concept player driven economy that has failed in every other game. Oh wait, you got to have more than one player per account in every other game.

Your point of people having more than one account is rediculous. Who in their right mind is going to have 5 accounts, if they do they're either going to be hungry or work to much for them to matter. You suck, I hate you

[LanMandragon]

It wouldn't, it would make the game more competitive for the skills that are in it. Everyone will feel the need to have a specced out character for each task. You'll have a mule for crafting, a healer for support, a melee guy to tank with... it's silly. Why should you be able to just flip your entire skillset on a whim? It makes every type of role in the game entirely bland and nothing is left to be unique. I'd like to see a Darkfall where crafters are rare and useful, where entire guilds of fire-slinging wizards would be rare and incredibly effective, where armies can't just change their entire specialization instantly.

Everyone arguing for multi-chars seems to want to do everything all at once because they're scared they'll be at a disadvantage if they get caught on their "crafter" by a PKer. Stop being such wretched cowards, the game'll be a lot more challenging and fun when we can't magically inhabit a different body every day.

Surly being the voice of reason, shocking.

With MCS you will have the same thing happening as happens in SB.
Its stupid and exactly what Surly is describing with specifically specced toons for each task.

[Tshark]

you know, I was always leaning tward SRS but I actually thought about how it would be if it were SCS.

I'll actually cast my vote for SCS because DF is about being differnt from all other mainstream mmo's. In this MMO everyone has 1 character and will be known for that one characters name and importance in ones role in clans etc etc. They said you wont have to reroll so, If you wana try out a new build from melee to caster, im sure you can do it without too much of a hastle.

[Shadow Walker2020]

SCS

You guys are crazy. From my understanding clan vs clan is going to be a big part of this game. Which means most people will be a part of a clan (or society). Maybe you should work on getting a diversity of people in your clan, someone that loves to craft, someone who loves to heal, someone who loves to PvP, someone who loves to build, and so on. If you don't want to do that, then maybe just maybe you could go to other clans and make an alliance. PEOPLE LIKE TO CALL THIS IDEA POLITICS. If you have every aspect of the game on one account then it will end up like shadowbane. Shadow Walker2020 sorry maybe you will have to make friends (obviously you failed at this mission in life). Even if you don't want to play with other players that's fine. Use your badass hybrid you keep talking about and go kill a crafter, and take his shit. Let's try out this concept player driven economy that has failed in every other game. Oh wait, you got to have more than one player per account in every other game.

Your point of people having more than one account is rediculous. Who in their right mind is going to have 5 accounts, if they do they're either going to be hungry or work to much for them to matter. You suck, I hate you

Youve never played UO apparently. And by the way, grow up.

[Harmar]

Let's solve the problem, if you don't like SCS jump off a bridge. No one cares.

Clearly the devs want it or they wouldn't keep asking

[Shadow Walker2020]

At all advocates of SRS that want it so one can experience it all-try a different server. If your goal is to experience new things with a new character, experience new people, new politics, etc. Don't just make it so your stronger char can "twink" your lower char. Granted, gear won't be huge and skills won't be huge, but nevertheless there IS gear, so twinking can still occur. And yes, I realize twink means underage homosexual and am amused by its every usage.


theres only going to be one server. They will add more if the game is a success. Untill then, your stuck with one character, period.

And who are you to tell other players to go to another server if there were more than one? what if they dont want to go play on other servers? What if they want to stay on the one that they are established on? Another example of SCS limitations.

[Ammon777]

Youve never played UO apparently. And by the way, grow up.
Guys... Lets not devolve into a flamefest please.

Anyway, ive yet to see good reasons for Single Race per Server other than the desire to experience as much of the game as possible and for a single player to have the advantage of multitasking.

It seems that the SCS bandwagon has more merit in regards to community building, identity, and accountability.

[Dozier]

single char per server
remember guys this is an mmo "RPG" <- notice that rpg is in caps. one undeletable character would force a more realistic role playing experience being that unless you bought another account then you are held accountable for everything you do one the server. if theres a ffa looting style in df then this will be key. forcing people to be accountable for their clan dealings aswell as alignment.

[Sachem]

Heated heaven, the debate has legs. Everyone arguing for multi-chars seems to want to do everything all at once because they're scared they'll be at a disadvantage if they get caught on their "crafter" by a PKer. Stop being such wretched cowards, the game'll be a lot more challenging and fun when we can't magically inhabit a different body every day.
The wretched coward part really stings, doesn't it?

[Baralis]

single character per server.. In my opinion it makes for a better economy since every player in game won't have a mule they break out to craft their necessary items. Single character per server would mean you either go into town to find the items you need, or you are a mule yourself.

Single character per server has my vote as well.

[Shadow Walker2020]

Let's solve the problem, if you don't like SCS jump off a bridge. No one cares.

Ill jump off of a bridge as soon as you blow your brains out with a shotgun.

Clearly the devs want it or they wouldn't keep asking

They keep asking because there is obviously a disagreement between the developers on which road to take.

They had it down right. And Tasos even said it himself:

The way it works is one race per server. Thats the only limitation.

And hes right, thats how it will work. So, with a statment like that, from a dev, I highly doubt that all of the devs want SCS.

[nhpr]

If they have more than one server at launch, they could just make one single character only and the other have multiple characters.. Plenty of other games have had servers with different rule sets.

[Sarmatian]

Guys... Lets not devolve into a flamefest please.

Anyway, ive yet to see good reasons for Single Race per Server other than the desire to experience as much of the game as possible and for a single player to have the advantage of multitasking.

It seems that the SCS bandwagon has more merit in regards to community building, identity, and accountability.

QFT, That's a great observation.

[Shadow Walker2020]

If they have more than one server at launch, they could just make one single character only and the other have multiple characters.. Plenty of other games have had servers with different rule sets.


Hmmm..... sounds good to me. Everyone gets what they want. The game appeals to different playstyles and attracts alot of players. Yes, it would work. Good idea.

[Ziploc]

Personally I think having 1 character per server would be the best. It would make crafter more unique, if we can make 2 character per server everyone will have a crafter and a fighter. Having only 1 character would assure that you will play it right and not make another character to kill whoever you want without having the penality on your main character. thats my 57 cent.

edit after reading a few post above..:
Making a couple of server with diferent ruleset would be the best, that way everyone will be happy. People who want to play on a server where everyone can craft the basic item and where noob are being killed everywhere by someone's alt, then they can do it.

[MaxTheDwarf]

Surly summed it up in the first eight pages. There is no reason for me to read the other twelve. If you want to hear my argument, go read surly's posts.

[Exultus]

If I'm limited to a single character I fully expect that my stay in game will be much shorter than it woudl have been otherwise.

[Shadow Walker2020]

Shadow Walker2000 sweet name first off. Sounds... high tech and shit. On a more positive note, you should quit taking this stuff so personally. I say things to get a response, and when you give in it makes me laugh because you're a fucking nerd. Go outside and slip a ruffy in a girls drink at a bar you need to get laid. I hate you, and you're gay

Love,

Im a nerd huh? Kinda hypocritical of you to say that considering your on an internet forum arguing over an MMORPG.

[Sarmatian]

Hey ShadowWalker2020.

Say they do implement SRS. How many chars would you want? Two? Or would you want more?

With two you could have a main, and you could have a mule OR a char to experiment templates/skills on. Would that be enough?

Perhaps if they didn't go full out 5 chars per account and implemented something like the Alt. Switch Time Delay it would please both sides decently?

Im a nerd huh? Kinda hypocritical of you to say that considering your on an internet forum arguing over an MMORPG.

Nah, I'm not a nerd. My life is pretty dull though.

[Vattic]

i'm not going to read all the pages of this thread. but this is very very heartfelt.

i will not play darkfall if i can only have one character per server. and this sucks, because i've been waiting and dreaming about this game for years. and here's why. everyone who is talking about how you can have a mage/warrior or whatever and it's cool, they also want accountability and better rp. guess what? having a character with magic, melee and crafting doesn't help rp. it makes it suck. i'm all about making a character that excells at what he or she does. i don't want my one character to do everything because that's lame. what i want, is to not have to pay every month for the exact same experience. that is, playing the same skill set over and over. just respec, you say?

how realistic is that? oh gee, i forgot how to swing a sword and now i'm a caster. yeah, that makes sense. :bang: to me, dropping skills and relearning them is not true to the vision that you started wth for the character. instead, it's a totally different character with the same name. you are in effect making multiple characters with one. again, i don't want to have to play one character for 10 years in order to sample casting, crafting, and fighting to their utmost. i'm going to spend the same amount of time playing,, but with multiple characters i can remain true to the heart of each instead of making an unappealing mash character.

[Borluc]

SCS for the good of the GAME over the good of the individual. Economy, accountability, and other aspects of the game benefit from this.

On the other hand, SRS is also OK and it allows multiple people per household to take part.

I'm open to either and I think its great that they aren't allowing more than one race as that would really start to affect the game balance.

[NewRage]

Im a nerd huh? Kinda hypocritical of you to say that considering your on an internet forum arguing over an MMORPG.

Face it, everyone here is following a game that not only isn't out, but isn't even in beta yet. We are all nerds. If anyone gets upset by that, then you are a nerd in denial, that's just the way it works.

For a contribution, Surly made a fairly good post about it over on the Unofficial Forums (http://www.darkfallforums.com) that makes a pretty good argument for pro-SCS, and since I can't say it better:

A crafting guild will have so much control over a region it would be ridiculous. I want an economic stranglehold! A crafting guild could literally control the outcome of whole wars just by choosing a "preferred customer". I want to see an economy that is powerful and realistic like that. Call me crazy.

[Gotrex]

SCS

reasons being:

1) I fucking hate mules, they destroy community spirit as it makes everyone self sufficient. People who wanna play crafters are gonna be screwed if everyone can make everything for themselves with there mule char.

2)Accountability, you will think twice about your actions if you cant log onto an alt to avoid the consequences.

And for trying new stuff out just play other servers, its not 1 character per acount that is being proposed just per server so if you wanna try playing a mage just roll one up on a different server to your main.

[renic]

SRS

you should be able to have multiple characters since there is, and should be, a (soft)cap on the amount of skills you can master.

Characters should NOT share alignment. sharing a last name is fine, but I would like to do quest chains for multiple factions with different characters instead of limiting myself to one portion of the game.

Alignment should belong to a character, not a player.

[Shadow Walker2020]

Hey ShadowWalker2020.

Say they do implement SRS. How many chars would you want? Two? Or would you want more?

With two you could have a main, and you could have a mule OR a char to experiment templates/skills on. Would that be enough?

Me, personally, Id be happy with three characters. A crafter, a mage and a warrior. Thats what I always play. Of course, I do have to factor in my brothers and sister.

Perhaps if they didn't go full out 5 chars per account and implemented something like the Alt. Switch Time Delay it would please both sides decently?

I dont like the time delay. I would like to be able to access my characters all in the same day.


All of this is too much. I say they should just make different servers that alot different numbers of character slots per server. It simplifies everything. Everyone gets what they want and the game doesnt have to suffer for it.

[Shadow Walker2020]

Face it, everyone here is following a game that not only isn't out, but isn't even in beta yet. We are all nerds. If anyone gets upset by that, then you are a nerd in denial, that's just the way it works.

I never said I wasnt a nerd. I know I am...... so what? I just thought that it was funny and hypocritical that he called me a nerd, considering the circumstances.

[Sarmatian]

Me, personally, Id be happy with three characters. A crafter, a mage and a warrior. Thats what I always play. Of course, I do have to factor in my brothers and sister.



I dont like the time delay. I would like to be able to access my characters all in the same day.


All of this is too much. I say they should just make different servers that alot different numbers of character slots per server. It simplifies everything. Everyone gets what they want and the game doesnt have to suffer for it.

My only concern with this is that the SCS server would have a weak population. If we truely are a minority, it will be extremely hard to get going since you are really depending on the community for aid in various aspects. I guess if a guild had the right balance it could dominate alot easier.

Maybe the population wouldn't be weak, I don't know.

[Chronos]

I vote for SRS.

When it comes down to it, I like to make alts and I don't want to plow through a softcap just so I can experience the whole range of skills and spells. And I sure as hell don't want to erase my time spent on those skills just so I can test something new out.

I plan on having at least 2 accounts anyway, but even with 2 characters I doubt I could take full advantage of the skill system without starting over again and again in the face of the softcap.

[Shadow Walker2020]

My only concern with this is that the SCS server would have a weak population. If we truely are a minority, it will be extremely hard to get going since you are really depending on the community for aid in various aspects. I guess if a guild had the right balance it could dominate alot easier.

Maybe the population wouldn't be weak, I don't know.

Neither do it. But, it is the safer bet when it comes to securing the games success. By allowing servers that accomodate both SCS and MCS tastes, there is no risk of driving players away from the game. This will ensure that more players come to the game from both playstyles, thus increasing the populations of both servers. Its a win/win situation.

[gigadarky]

vote for SRS only if the last name is the same .

[Icix]

Multiple characters/races allow for more flexability and allows people more freedom to do what they want. For example, what if I wanted to stay on the same server and guild, but roll a different race? I think the ability to have freedom of choice is a staple of DF, and restricting characters kinda stand for everything DF doesn't.

[Sarmatian]

I can't say for certain SCS would kill Darkfall before it even got on it's feet.

Darkfall is Darkfall. It will offer so many things compared to what is out there right now. I may not be crazy about something, but if the game as a whole is so great I might not really care once I play the game.

[LanMandragon]

Multiple characters/races allow for more flexability and allows people more freedom to do what they want. For example, what if I wanted to stay on the same server and guild, but roll a different race? I think the ability to have freedom of choice is a staple of DF, and restricting characters kinda stand for everything DF doesn't.

Delete your character then. Then reroll a different race. I dont need you spying in my racial chat for free.

We are at war with you other races, you dont just get to switch over cause you feel like killing your own nation.

It is about freedom of choice, and one of the consequences of freedom is you have to deal with the results of your decisions to choose a race.

Its not about freedom, its about your gameplay and actions having an affect on the world and on your character.

[Shadow Walker2020]

I can't say for certain SCS would kill Darkfall before it even got on it's feet.

Darkfall is Darkfall. It will offer so many things compared to what is out there right now. I may not be crazy about something, but if the game as a whole is so great I might not really care once I play the game.


Darkfall is a flegling game. Its aventurine's first shot at an MMORPG. Its s risky business and they really cant afford to take any chances that can be avoided. I dont want to see Darkfall fail. I want to see it crush every other game out there. It is a great game. Its as close to the experience of Old UO as one can get without having to rely on the hacked and bugged player run servers. The safest and smartest best, I now realize, is to offer players a choice of servers. One with SCS, one with MCS. Who knows, maybe even in the future there could be perma-death servers too. Give players the freedom to choose how they want to play the game and that game will flourish.

[LanMandragon]

Darkfall is a flegling game. Its aventurine's first shot at an MMORPG. Its s risky business and they really cant afford to take any chances that can be avoided. I dont want to see Darkfall fail. I want to see it crush every other game out there. It is a great game. Its as close to the experience of Old UO as one can get without having to rely on the hacked and bugged player run servers. The safest and smartest best, I now realize, is to offer players a choice of servers. One with SCS, one with MCS. Who knows, maybe even in the future there could be perma-death servers too. Give players the freedom to choose how they want to play the game and that game will flourish.

I think that logic is flawed. So far they have taken standpoints on game issues that other developers have balked at. They should continue doing so. If this is a world that is in turmoil, having factions and not being able to switch without a server or deleted toon makes sense.

By your logic they could potentially have safe zones, no pvp servers etc on different servers. Play how you want shouldn't carry over to the general agreed upon rules of the game. Such as its full loot, its open pvp, its faction based, and its SCS.

[Sel'Karim]

I'm afraid I haven't been able to read all the previous posts, so I will no doubt be repeating many things that others have said, but anyhow, this is my take on the matter.

I am in favour of one character per server, and I would like to address some common arguments made by people in favour of multiple characters per server:

1. It allows you to try out different character archetypes.

2. It allows you to have one main pvp character, and an alt crafter character.

3. People with siblings don't wish to buy more than one copy and wish to play on the same server.

4. It doesn't make sense to only have one character per server. Those people who only want to play one character can do so even if multiple characters are allowed. They're not restricted in anyway. But if one character per server was implimented, those who do want to play multiple characters would certainly be restricted.

As far I as I see it, the third argument is by far the strongest reason in favour of multiple characters per server. Let's go through each of the others.

You don't need multiple characters per server to try out different archetypes. If you want to try out the various possibilities in the game then just go to another server. If it's merely a matter of wanting to develop different characters then you should have no reason for wanting to play them on the same server. In fact the kind of people that generally enjoy developing particular archetypes tend to lean towards a roleplay style of play, but clearly multiple characters per server will ruin the immersion that roleplayers all tend to want.

Why do so many people want a crafter mule? In fact, one of the main reasons that people put forward AGAINST multiple characters per server is precisely that they don

[Shadow Walker2020]

I think that logic is flawed. So far they have taken standpoints on game issues that other developers have balked at. They should continue doing so. If this is a world that is in turmoil, having factions and not being able to switch without a server or deleted toon makes sense.

By your logic they could potentially have safe zones, no pvp servers etc on different servers. Play how you want shouldn't carry over to the general agreed upon rules of the game. Such as its full loot, its open pvp, its faction based, and its SCS.

When the devs start talking about interfearing with PvP like that, by offereing non pvp servers, then they start to branch out into truely compromising the game. Letting players choose how many characters they want to play is nothing compared to giving the option of no PvP servers. their dream for this game was to have an open pvp game with full loot, clan war fare, player run cities, and total freedom. Letting players choose whether or not they want to play SCS or MCS doesnt compromise that. What your talking about is total compromise and corruption of the games core ideology. Im just saying players should get to decide how many characters they could have and your comparing it to hurting PvP? geeze. Talk about blowing things out of proportion.

[gri]

Imo the main advantage of having only one character per account is that the chars will be less specialized. More chars available will give us extra banks, crafters, buffbots and suchs. All non-combat skills might end up on alts. Everyone can have his altcrafter and his altgatherer for the stuff they need.

So SCS might lead to better balanced characters. The game population and the game economy should be better or at least different from a SRS.

BUT there is nothing stopping anyone from buying a 2nd and 3rd account. I cannot imagine anyone making a pure crafter and playing punching bag for the other players. Multiple accounts will be standard for a SCS. I know i would use more than one account for sure.

The outcome of a Single Char per server policy is uncertain. It might very well lead to a lot of ghost accounts for buffbots, it can however also provide a more healthy economy, an easier start for latecomers and more variation for character building. How it will turn out will depend heavily on the mechanics of the game.

Therefor: put SCS to the test in a large open beta and see if the advantages are really worth all the restrictions (and we all know there are plenty of those).

[madcat]

1) SCS (Single Character per Server)
->> 2) SRS (Single Race per Server)

At this point, MRS (Multiple Races (and characters) per Server) is not a primary consideration. If you wish to make a passing comment in regards to it, feel free, but most of your attentions and efforts should be focused on SCS vs SRS.


I would have to vote for number 2 (SRS). Mainly because even though I've never seen a doctor about it, I may have ADD and need multi-chars to play to keep from getting bored. I had this problem with SWG and end up buying 4 accounts. This time I'm not even going to try that again, my wife would kill me.

welp thats my 2 cents

[nhpr]

Therefor: put SCS to the test in a large open beta and see if the advantages are really worth all the restrictions (and we all know there are plenty of those).

Probably the best idea so far. Halfway through, give people the option to make alts and see what happens. If it's negative: don't do it. If it's positive: do it. That's what betas are for. :)

[LanMandragon]

If the reason for multiple accounts per server is buffbots and tradebots then the game design is flawed, sorry.

[Sel'Karim]

there is nothing stopping anyone from buying a 2nd and 3rd account. I cannot imagine anyone making a pure crafter and playing punching bag for the other players. Multiple accounts will be standard for a SCS. I know i would use more than one account for sure.

Of course there is nothing stopping people from buying multiple accounts, but how many people will be willing to pay double the monthly fee? If there are advantages from SCS then they will come from having most people play a single character. Not many people will buy another account just for the sake of having a crafter alt.

I also completely disagree with you about people not wanting to become crafters for fear of being punching bags. If SCS is implemented, then devoted crafters will be very highly valued, and many clans will offer them protection in exchange for their services.

You're right that it is still uncertain what advantages SCS will bring. Implementing it in beta is certainly a great idea.

[Icix]

What if we did a compromise? Multiple characters per server, but only one race? It would eliminate racial spying and whatnot, but allow people to have multiple chars with specialized roles.

[Relode]

Reading through, it seems that the SRS people want multiple chars to have multiple specializations. They argue that they don't want one char that just does everything. The thing is, your character WON'T do everything. You WILL have to rely on others. Dabbling in a little of everything brings on more weakness then strength because you take on all the faults of every ability, and all the abilities will be weak. Most people will specialize and rely on others, namely their guild, to take on other jobs. Its a teamwork game. This isn't a game where you can just become completely self reliant and take on armies by yourself, as been stated you can take at most 4 at a time. So those who stick together will always come out better. Its a guild vs. guild conquering game. You are going to have to rely on others guys, deal with it.

[Holinmar]

After reading through the past thirteen pages, I think I would enjoy SCS. However I wish it was more like Dual Character Servers. If not that then, keeperofstar's idea with the time delay alt switching.

[BeTrayed]

I agree with most the people here. I like the idea of 1 Race per server, even further the idea of tieing a last name to all your characters on that server is nice.

The reason for wanting multiple slots is because of roleplay. If it's the "same" character, then your pretty limited in how you can roleplay, especially if your trying to stay with that characters original theme. It's about identity and being able to play whichever identity you feel like at a given moment.

[Nevr]

SCS for me.

I think SCS does provide more accountability, sense of community, immersion, and economic stability. It seems like most people that want multiple chars are more focused on 'end game' and self sufficiency/clan sufficiency than anything else. Everyone wants to be able to try as many character templates as possible so that they can find which ones work the best and get ahead of the game. As Sel'Karim said, dependency is a good thing. It makes the world more fluid and alive. It adds to the immersion of the game if you don't see people logging in and out every 10 mins, saying, "hold on, let me get my alt". It also helps bridge the gap between casual gamers and power gamers, since everyone is going to be on pretty much equal ground, sooner or later. Then it's all about player skill, strategy, etc.

We don't know exactly how the skills are going to be weighted either. It may be entirely possible to be a mage/blacksmith/rogue/whatever you want to put together, and do them all well. It probably just won't be possible to have ALL the crafting skills on your one character, but I don't see a problem with that. I think that would encourage a thriving economy of trading and bartering. And if you want to change your character down the road, do it. It's not going to kill you to be set back a week or so in the grand scheme of things. Plus, its not like you'll be the only one doing it.

The sibling argument, while I do see where they are coming from, I don't think it is reason enough to alter the game for everyone else. If the kiddies really want to play, they can get their own accounts and give Adventurine the money they rightly deserve for playing their game.

I'm not entirely opposed to having both SCS and SRS though. But,
if it has to be single race, multiple chars, they have got to have the same last names.

[Nevr]

I agree with most the people here. I like the idea of 1 Race per server, even further the idea of tieing a last name to all your characters on that server is nice.

The reason for wanting multiple slots is because of roleplay. If it's the "same" character, then your pretty limited in how you can roleplay, especially if your trying to stay with that characters original theme. It's about identity and being able to play whichever identity you feel like at a given moment.

Why don't you just play your different characters on different servers then?

[Kamigatta]

I couldnt read everything in this thread so sorry if i am repeating or addressing issues that are already solved..

Why not DCS per server ? But SRS.. DCS meaning Double Characters per Server but both chars must be single raced,last name and allignment. This way those who want to test the game from another angle can do so on their 2nd char, and those who want to have a mule and crafter etc can do it as well. But they will have to properly decide what they want their 2nd char to be..no more muling+crafting+ a main char.. However, this doesnt really stop the siblings sharing the game issue. Though, maybe 2 siblings sharing a game is the max for a single game copy and maybe when the 3rd siblings wants to play as well, its time to buy another disc? =/

And beta testing is the best way to find out which one suits the majority of players..

Edit: but i really dont mind either way..

[Kamigatta]

Why don't you just play your different characters on different servers then?

Well, you wont have your current clan or friends to test your skills on.. And you will have to roleplay alone on a new server, doing it on the current server will make it very much easier to test a different char in terms of gold, and accomidities(you will have clan benefits etc)

[Leric]

I despise the idea of everyone being able to make a crafter alt, it ruins my profession! Multi-characters just open up too much diversity per player, and it makes nothing unique. It makes "Flavor of the Month" characters pop up every goddamn time there's a patch, and everyone is able to just switch characters during a fight to something more suitable. Would it not be interesting to have variation in player abilities during combat? I'm sick of every single game requiring you to be decked out in awesome skills and items just to compete. In Darkfall it isn't going to be that way, don't squander the opportunity by allowing it to happen with multipler characters.



SCS for reason stated above and more...

Your name can either be legendary, unknown, or laughed at up to you.

Also if it is multible char per server i do not support the " same last name" for each char. Sure people will know it's the same person, but it will lead to the same ol' same ol' rp after awhile.

[Jeffrey199]

I'm in favor of SCS, I like the idea of everyone trying to create one character to live with and get by. Noone should be able to do everything, and if everyone decides to specialize in a few forms of fighting and a craft of there own choice it would be very interesting. I dont know I guess I think it will make each encounter more interesting as chances are not everyone will be full combat. Then again some will and those who truly dedicate there time to crafting while others only specialize in combat how they interact will be interesting too.

[Nevr]

Well, you wont have your current clan or friends to test your skills on.. And you will have to roleplay alone on a new server, doing it on the current server will make it very much easier to test a different char in terms of gold, and accomidities(you will have clan benefits etc)

Well, I wouldn't really call it "roleplaying" if you have all the same friends, possessions, etc. Thats just using alts in my book.

[BeTrayed]

Why don't you just play your different characters on different servers then?

You could do that, however you tend to form bonds and relationships with peoples and groups and guilds. You don't want to have to leave that all behind just so you can get a different playstyle (RP wise) every now and then.

Don't get me wrong, I'll adapt and play even if it's only 1 player per server. They asked for opinions and this happens to be mine.

[Nevr]

You could do that, however you tend to form bonds and relationships with peoples and groups and guilds. You don't want to have to leave that all behind just so you can get a different playstyle (RP wise) every now and then.

Don't get me wrong, I'll adapt and play even if it's only 1 player per server. They asked for opinions and this happens to be mine.

Well, also remember that your friends could make other characters on other servers too :)

[Tyri]

The more you can elaborate on your view, the better! :)

What points do you have for your view, or against the other? Any specifics would go a long way in furthering your cause.

Since i only have two options that Dev's are looking for i will simply put it this way, i am limited to SCS. Why?

One character of one race should do it, i like to pvp and i like to craft and i believe with the open skill system, even tho limited on information i can do what i want with One character, One race.
Forget the arguement on having mules and siblings for a reason to get more characters per server and one race. Why?
I been there and have done it, i have 2 sons and they never agreed on how to play so i ended up getting separate accounts for everyone. You put up with sibling arguement just so long, and if you are not talking about brothers and sisters as siblings then maybe sons and daughters? Samething applies, unless you have total control over them, which i doubt or they are really to young to play this game which you will prolly find out about, if they screw up your alignment with another race or races. Need a mule then buy a horse or get NPC to carry your shit, then store in a bank.
One thing concerning alignment. Where the FUCK did you guys get that you could have one character evil and one good guy, on the same server? Last topic i read on alignment stated that whatever you do with character one, it not only effects him but character two-whatever? If you have a link to an update i am not awear of pls provide it.
Now, my thoughts on multi-race options, i know, they are not being considered at this time. However, due to the statement made above, i just cannot resist. I would like to see, good alignments of races on a server. For example: If my guild Human/Mirdain/Dwarf, and alignment is good with each of these, i would like to play one of each on the same server.
The control is simple, use alignment/guild or clan name to regulate it. IF guild A decides to go to war with guild/clan B, your names or characters are going to be red to them thus saying, we at war get ready to rumble. Mahirim and Ork could do same, sorry about you guys who want Alfar, cause they can't have alignments with anyone but themselves.
Thats my 2 cents worth ;)

[Elwood]

Im pro SCS::

I think one of the great aspects of this game is that it is "almost" unbeatable. I mean this of course because of the example about skill gain, decay, and softcap. Adding MCS throws the softcap out the window, it would eliminate the ability for some one to gain a slight advantage, because they play the game more or pratice a certin skill more.

Last names for charcters would be awful, how many people are there with Smith as a last name? Alot. Also what would be the point if people could steal your last name, nothing unique with seeing some guy named john Deer, then another who copyed yours by calling himself jonh Deer.

If the server is SCS, and people want that extra charcter and buy a new account, fine. They are willing to pay, they are making the sacrifice of their money in real life. Also it is good for the game, in respects that the company can investmore money to improve the game.

[JasonGR]

Multi characters help RP?

Im playing tabletop Role Playing games for many years now and every time I was going to play I didnt have a variety of chars to choose from,I had the one I had created.(and I tend to keep my chars for long unless something unpleasant happens :P )
And in many pnp rpgs the char customisation is more limited than DF!And ofc you cant respec,change feats or skills!

When you roleplay a single char you have a special bond with that char.The path of this char can change,he may start as good but through some events he may end evil and cruel...there is no need to stick to his original theme as long as you have some clever ideas.Also even in DnD there are Multiclasses and you can see be fighter/wizard so dont say that this char "build" is not good for RPing!Every "build" is great for RPing as long as you have ideas!

[Apewall]

One char per server, deal with it, you mule making babies. ;)

[renic]

If the server is SCS, and people want that extra charcter and buy a new account, fine. They are willing to pay, they are making the sacrifice of their money in real life. Also it is good for the game, in respects that the company can investmore money to improve the game.

I hope darkfall is not only a great game, but profitable. I want srs, but the above argument is compelling.

[renic]

What if we did a compromise? Multiple characters per server, but only one race? It would eliminate racial spying and whatnot, but allow people to have multiple chars with specialized roles.

that's not a compromise.. that's the srs option.

[JasonGR]

And as someone already mentioned "SRS Ruins the game while SCS ruins a personal playstyle" !!!

[HateMe]

I have to say Single Race Servers, because accessibility should be considered. If you want to experiment with serveral skill combinations at the same time, only one character would make it rather difficult to compare between combinations. My concern is seeing the casual gamer essentially get screwed because he or she cannot experiment without worrying about joining a server away from his or her guild.

Though personally, I'd prefer to have the option of playing more than one race, even they're allied ones. Again, accessibility makes both business sense and create the possibility of increased enjoyment.

[Osirus]

hard to believe, 15 pages and no serious flame throwing.

[Komako]

I'm going to agree with the general opinion of this thread, but add a twist.

One character, one server. The skill system allows players to be flexible with their skills without sacreficing a great amount in a different playstyle. It allows mistakes and gives us all the oppurtunity to start learning something different, that is equality because we all are put under the same gameplay rule.

I would like to see characters being able to change things such as display names, and cosmetic appearence. (Make-up? :P) Darkfall is about realism. If I want to tell somebody my name is Billy-bob, and another person it is Tommy, I should be able to do so. However, although I may use different names, my stature/generic appearence stays the same, short of getting a haircut etc.

Darkfall is about realism. One character, one server is realistic. The ability to change appearence for that character is realistic. All I want is realism in Darkfall.

[Hopevoid]

Single Character Server

Accountability is important. just because people can get multiple accounts to bypass it doesn't mean that we should just discount the idea. By that logic, any restriction is useless. Realistically, the restriction will prevent the vast majority of people from trying to avoid accountability and thus I'm for it

[Sel'Karim]

I would just like to elaborate on some things I said in my long post on page 13.

Firstly, we should keep in mind the big difference between wanting SRS for the sake of trying out different character templates or archetypes, and wanting SRS for the sake of having support characters or mules.

My argument against having SRS for the sake of playing different archetypes was that you can easily play them on different servers. Now many people have expressed that they wouldn't want to play on a server where they don't know anyone. In my opinion, and on top of what I've already said earlier, if you want an alt just for the sake of wanting to try out different templates, then this should not be a big sacrifice to make.

However, I do believe that there is a comprimise available between those who want SCS and those who want SRS for the sake of wanting to try different templates. The idea is mentioned here (http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=2649) although I don't know who came up with it originally. Basically, make it so that you can 'shelf' characters. In other words, you can have multiple characters per server (SRS of course), but you cannot play them both over a given period, say a month or week (or whatever the devs think is reasonable). If you decide to make a new character, you cannot play your old one for the set period. If you want to go back to the old one, your alt gets shelved for the set period instead. If you decided you made a terrible mistake, and you don't feel like playing your alt for a whole month (or whatever), then there should be the option of deleting the alt you just made and going back to your old character.

I believe this comprimise will suit those who want SRS for the sake of wanting to play different archetypes, but obviously not those who want support characters. I've already said why I think support characters are a bad idea in an mmo, but here is another one (I don't know if it has been said already). In darkfall, as we all know, all accumilated wealth can be stolen or plundered. Clans will no doubt want to keep all their resources, weapons etc, locked up and well guarded, but in principle it is possible to plunder this wealth. If you have SRS, there will be absolutely no need to protect your valueable items. You can make a bunch of mules to hold it all and keep them logged off until needed. The compromise I mentioned earlier will also allow for this exploitation, but on a far lesser scale. What good are resources and items if you can't get access to them at will? In theory, a clan could plan a long way ahead and do it anyway, but I think the tactic is so inflexible that it would be pointless to pursue it.

I'll add one thing. If the devs do decide to implement SRS with the shelving restriction or without, I plea for only one alt per account (per server). If you have multiple alts the mule exploitation will be a whole lot easier and effective. Having said all this, I still prefer SCS (no shelving), but I'd be happy with SRS with the shelving restriction and only one alt.

[Malishan]

No other MMO to date (that I can think of) has done single character per server. Darkfall is breaking the mold in many many ways and thats awesome, but SCS might just be going too far. It also might look to some like an underhanded way to get more account fees from families that share accounts. Tie accounts together with a common last name, thats plenty improvement in the accountability department, as compared to other games.

[Malishan]

Im pro SCS::

Last names for charcters would be awful, how many people are there with Smith as a last name? Alot. Also what would be the point if people could steal your last name, nothing unique with seeing some guy named john Deer, then another who copyed yours by calling himself jonh Deer.



Well duh, last names would have to be unique, as well as first names. You can't pick it if someone else already has it.

[Sel'Karim]

No other MMO to date (that I can think of) has done single character per server. Darkfall is breaking the mold in many many ways and thats awesome, but SCS might just be going too far. It also might look to some like an underhanded way to get more account fees from families that share accounts. Tie accounts together with a common last name, thats plenty improvement in the accountability department, as compared to other games.

Don't forget that even if SRS will be allowed, you certainly won't be allowed to have two characters logged on at the same time. If you had two serious players in one family, they'll still need to purchase more than one copy and play on different computers. Otherwise, how would you stop people from using a single account if they're not in the same family? Furthermore, given that there will be restrictions on your alt characters, such as the same race, alignment and surname, siblings using one account will be seriously restricted in the kinds of characters they can create. The sibling consideration is just not strong enough to dictate whether or not SCS should be implemented.

[Malhavok]

SCS

The only arguement I've heard of why it shouldn't be in is the self proclaimed roleplayers who want more than one distinct & seperate character. For everyone else, a second character is just an extension of their first... either an alt or a mule. I've never once actually encourtered one of these self proclaimed roleplayers in all my years of gameing, so I'm inclined to think they don't exist. So, in other words the people who won't want SCS just want a mule or an alt PK.

Generally the wannabe PKs argue that by denying them their right to an alt (since they can't actually hack it as PKs without a blue character) all your really doing is disadvantaging people who don't buy two accounts. So what. If you want to have an alt PK, because you can't handle being red, I don't feel much sympathy that you've been burdoned with having to pay for two accounts.

[Always_PEPSI]

Single race per server is the best choice.

[Osirus]

No other MMO to date (that I can think of) has done single character per server. Darkfall is breaking the mold in many many ways and thats awesome, but SCS might just be going too far. It also might look to some like an underhanded way to get more account fees from families that share accounts. Tie accounts together with a common last name, thats plenty improvement in the accountability department, as compared to other games.

... it doesn't look like anything other than them asking our opinion on the matter. we've presented strong, thorough 'arguments' as to why SCS would benefit the overall experience in Darkfall.

as already suggested; try SCS for beta, and if it doens't work out, they can give an extra character slot later on down the road.

[JasonGR]

well if afraid that not many ppl will make an alt in beta :/

[Threven]

I like the single character server but I know it won't work since so many people actually enjoy getting the perfect specs for different classes it wouldn't be fair to hinder someone from that kind of enjoyment and shouldn't happen.

[Jinx]

I didn't bother to read this whole fat assed thread.

Basically, it comes down to... What do you, the developers of Darkfall, think would be more fun for us, the players?


Each side has advantages and disadvantages.

When I glanced through the threads here, I saw some people mention that they wanted to be able to expirement. This isn't really a reason to have multiple characters per server. You can just make other characters on other servers if you 'just want to expirement'.

However, the real reason to allow multiple characters per server is to allow players to fill the needs of the moment. If players are restricted to one and only one character, they will not be willing to make characters they don't like so much. They will make the character they want, exactly as they want. No healers? Oh well, I'm not screwing over MY character to give other people healing. No crafters? Oh well, I'm not... Anyway, you get the drift. If you have some 'less fun' but 'very useful' skill sets, you'll essentially be screwing over your whole game by restricting people to one character, because almost no one in the game will be willing to screw over there one character for other peoples benefit. That is a advantage for SRS and a disadvantage for SCS.

Something that is sometimes an advantage and sometimes a disadvantage for SCS is that 'relationship' you get with your character that I saw someone mention. It is an advantage in that if you like your character, you, the developer, may retain customers longer than the normal multi-character per server games. However, sometimes people will dislike there character. They will see it as a big waste of time, and won't want to erase all that time they spent by respeccing to other skills. The conflicting desires, a better character they don't like, and the desire not to erase is and thereby waste all the time they spent on it, may cause quite a few people to quit.

The big advantage of SCS, as far as I see it, is not the effect on the player, but the effect on other players when they deal with that character. People will know that the character isn't some temporary character, an expirement or a mule. Whenever they deal with someone, they will know that this is THE character for that person. That inspires a greater sense of community, because you know the person you are dealing with will still be there in a month. He will probably log in a few more times in the next week. He will be around, for good or bad. That means if you make friends with this guy, you won't have to wonder if he's 'just an alt' and he's not going to log in agian after today. Guild leaders won't have to wonder if the guy they are inviting won't show up agian. Joining a guild will be a commitment of an entire account for that server.

Lastly, SCS will have another problem. Many people like to hear that beeping sound or whatever happens when they gain in a skill or whatever. They enjoy it so much, that they don't really have the patience for 'high end' characters, where the rewards slow down dramatically. You'll be alienating this entire portion of the MMORPG market by forcing these people to delete if they reach that point where they aren't getting there coveted rewards fast enough. On the flip side of that, those customers that aren't bothered by this or who tolerate it will end up being very high skill characters. Because they won't be wasting a week here and a month there on other characters, and there is no hard cap, the difference between players who have been around and playing regularly for five years and those who just started a week ago will be HUGE.

Anyway, that's it for me.

[Osirus]

I didn't bother to read this whole fat assed thread.

Basically, it comes down to... What do you, the developers of Darkfall, think would be more fun for us, the players?


Each side has advantages and disadvantages.

When I glanced through the threads here, I saw some people mention that they wanted to be able to expirement. This isn't really a reason to have multiple characters per server. You can just make other characters on other servers if you 'just want to expirement'.

However, the real reason to allow multiple characters per server is to allow players to fill the needs of the moment. If players are restricted to one and only one character, they will not be willing to make characters they don't like so much. They will make the character they want, exactly as they want. No healers? Oh well, I'm not screwing over MY character to give other people healing. No crafters? Oh well, I'm not... Anyway, you get the drift. If you have some 'less fun' but 'very useful' skill sets, you'll essentially be screwing over your whole game by restricting people to one character, because almost no one in the game will be willing to screw over there one character for other peoples benefit. That is a advantage for SRS and a disadvantage for SCS.

Something that is sometimes an advantage and sometimes a disadvantage for SCS is that 'relationship' you get with your character that I saw someone mention. It is an advantage in that if you like your character, you, the developer, may retain customers longer than the normal multi-character per server games. However, sometimes people will dislike there character. They will see it as a big waste of time, and won't want to erase all that time they spent by respeccing to other skills. The conflicting desires, a better character they don't like, and the desire not to erase is and thereby waste all the time they spent on it, may cause quite a few people to quit.

The big advantage of SCS, as far as I see it, is not the effect on the player, but the effect on other players when they deal with that character. People will know that the character isn't some temporary character, an expirement or a mule. Whenever they deal with someone, they will know that this is THE character for that person. That inspires a greater sense of community, because you know the person you are dealing with will still be there in a month. He will probably log in a few more times in the next week. He will be around, for good or bad. That means if you make friends with this guy, you won't have to wonder if he's 'just an alt' and he's not going to log in agian after today. Guild leaders won't have to wonder if the guy they are inviting won't show up agian. Joining a guild will be a commitment of an entire account for that server.

Lastly, SCS will have another problem. Many people like to hear that beeping sound or whatever happens when they gain in a skill or whatever. They enjoy it so much, that they don't really have the patience for 'high end' characters, where the rewards slow down dramatically. You'll be alienating this entire portion of the MMORPG market by forcing these people to delete if they reach that point where they aren't getting there coveted rewards fast enough. On the flip side of that, those customers that aren't bothered by this or who tolerate it will end up being very high skill characters. Because they won't be wasting a week here and a month there on other characters, and there is no hard cap, the difference between players who have been around and playing regularly for five years and those who just started a week ago will be HUGE.

Anyway, that's it for me.

1. there are people who will play dedicated healer ... or crafter ... or whatever other role anyone wants to throw out there as a 'pro-MCS' argument.

2. I don't think these devs are going to put something like a 'ding' in Darkfall; if I hear a 'ding' or anything that resembles it, I'll uninstall Darkfall immediately.

[Haight]

srs

[chano]

I see the bonuses and setbacks of both sides of this. The one thing that i notice the most is that Darkfall is about not haveing limits and allowing the person to play as they wish. This is why we love this game and why we patrol these forums relentlesly, but now everyone is saying oh you have to limit the chars to 1 because playing more than one is carebear (ok so not exact words but thats basicly what has been said in more than one of the posts here). Now if your telling people they should be limited in what they play becasue you dont like it, that makes you just as carebear as you think they are in my opinion.


I personally dont think its a very realistic idea to think that people are gong to have lots of crafting mules because in general crafting mules only craft, they have no fighting skills and generally the only gear they have is stuff they made, which in darkfall is just as good as anything else assumeing they take the time to gain high levels in crafting. However if they take all this time to craft and they have another char that is their main their crafter is most likely going to be an easy target for me to steal all of their goodies.


The main bonus i see to the srs is that the devs have said although its possible to gain max in all skills it will take a long time and its not going to be easy. I personally belive they should go with the srs but as much as it pains me to say it very limited two maby three chars per server this gives you a bit of flexibility in play styles but not enough to have a toon for anything you could possibly want. You can have a caster type and a tank type, or you can have a char mainly for crafting and a toon for killing all the idiots on these boards who dont think before thay speak if thats what you feel like. Basically i feel like scs is limiting the players to much but any more than 2 or at the absolute most 3 is going to do more harm than good for reasons of balance to the economy.

Ill use a certain game (to remain nameless) that allows you to have 8 (think its 8 could be 10)chars per server it seems like everyone has an enchanter,tailor, miner,skinner. it does make these professions basically useless except for those few that despise crafting. I belive that crafters will have a place in darkfall as the devs and most of the rest of us would like to see provided they arent insanely easy to skill up for one and for two every craft isnt accessible just by loggin out. I guess that seems like a contridiction sort of but i belive there is far to much to acomplish in this game if you really like playing different types of chars to be limited to a single one.

SRS

[Sel'Karim]

I like the single character server but I know it won't work since so many people actually enjoy getting the perfect specs for different classes it wouldn't be fair to hinder someone from that kind of enjoyment and shouldn't happen.

Someone used this argument in a poll I started on this issue a little while ago, and I just don't get it. If you're concerned about ruining the enjoyment of one group of people by implementing SCS, why arn't you concerned about ruining the enjoyment of another group of people if SRS was implemented? I realise that you prefer SCS, but believe that you won't derive as much enjoyment from SCS than others will from SRS, yet surely that doesn't apply to everyone who prefers SCS. Certainly, there are less people who want SCS than SRS, but they form a large enough group for their interests to be taken seriously. Again, consider someone who wants to specialise in crafting. If everyone has the option to have an alt crafter, then there is very little value in becoming a specialised crafter. If you implement SCS you stop people from trying out different types of characters and 'getting the perfect specs' and all that, but if you implement SRS you basically undermine an entire playstyle. Furthermore, you undermine the unique, realistic economy that is likely to develop with SCS, and the mutual dependancy relationships that will arise out of players specialising in different things. If we're comparing who is 'worse off' should one or the other be implemented, then I think that while more people will be worse off if we implement SCS, implementing SRS instead will affect SCS supporters to a greater extent. SCS supporters will be worse off than SRS supporters if either don't get what they want, but of course there are slightly fewer SCS supporters.

[BlueJester]

SCS would be my choice.

Though if the Devs are making multiple servers, they can have SRS only and SCS only. This will allow the players to choose what they prefer. Although, players in the clans that are divided will have to make a choice. In beta Devs should decided what to go with, SCS in my opinion, and take feedback during beta, then go from there.

Honestly, I'm looking forward to fine tuning my guy to specific skills that reflex my play style. I don't think players should be allowed to do everything. If they want to try new stuff drop some skills to make room or make another character on a different sever.

To me, the whole point of an MMO is to interact with everyone else around you. What better way to interact with people then to use their skills that you don't have. Why go to a black smith and get armor/repair or new weapons if I have another character that can make it for me. Why find a sailor and crew that can sail me to an island I want to explore if I can jump on an alt that can sail.

I believe that SCS will make the game way more interactive. This also goes for clans, if you have a clan that has very few crafters your going to want to make an alliance with a clan that can supply your army with the armor and weapons you need.

Crafters and Healers become way more valuable when it comes to SCS.
So for me SCS is the only way to go.

[Sel'Karim]

I see the bonuses and setbacks of both sides of this. The one thing that i notice the most is that Darkfall is about not haveing limits and allowing the person to play as they wish. This is why we love this game and why we patrol these forums relentlesly, but now everyone is saying oh you have to limit the chars to 1 because playing more than one is carebear (ok so not exact words but thats basicly what has been said in more than one of the posts here). Now if your telling people they should be limited in what they play becasue you dont like it, that makes you just as carebear as you think they are in my opinion.

I'm afraid this argument has an absurd consequence. (I'm not saying that what you're saying is absurd or stupid. There is just an argument strategy known as reductio ad absurdum. You show that a certain argument leads to an absurdity in order to undermine the argument).

"If you're telling people they should be limited in what they play because you don't like it, then that makes you a carebare." That's your argument, right?

Compare it with this:

"If you're telling people that they shouldn't have the option to opt out of pvp, then you're a carebare."

Opting out of pvp is a playstyle. It's a playstyle that darkfall DOES NOT ALLOW. I assume that you do not agree to the above claim, namely that telling people that they shouldn't have the option of opting out of pvp makes you a carebare. But since this is a consequence of what you said, then you can't really agree with what you've said.

[PhoenixDog]

Because of the diversity a single character can do, Only one character per server would be enough. I never usually have alts anyway.

[Jinx]

1. there are people who will play dedicated healer ... or crafter ... or whatever other role anyone wants to throw out there as a 'pro-MCS' argument.

2. I don't think these devs are going to put something like a 'ding' in Darkfall; if I hear a 'ding' or anything that resembles it, I'll uninstall Darkfall immediately.

1. The question isn't if people will make them, the question is 'Will enough people make the necessary character types that everyone else isn't screwed over?' If some skill types are less fun, then the answer is probably no.

2. We'll see. If I knew you well enough to hold you to a bet though, I'd be willing to bet you a hundred dollars there will be some sort of sound, and a months worth of play time you won't quit over it. I don't know you that well, so won't make the bet.

[Shadow Walker2020]

The devs should just make two servers. One with multiple characters slots but SRS and the other only allowing one character slot. It solves the problem and everyone gets what they want. Case closed. And then, finally, can the endless debate over which is better can finally be resolved and put to rest.

[Osirus]

1. The question isn't if people will make them, the question is 'Will enough people make the necessary character types that everyone else isn't screwed over?' If some skill types are less fun, then the answer is probably no.

2. We'll see. If I knew you well enough to hold you to a bet though, I'd be willing to bet you a hundred dollars there will be some sort of sound, and a months worth of play time you won't quit over it. I don't know you that well, so won't make the bet.

1. imo, Darkfall isn't an 'every man for himself' game, it's a 'every clan for itself' game; so I believe there will be enough in that regard.

2. I don't know the devs well enough to take that bet, but based on my understanding of what they're trying to deliver, I don't see(hear) 'dings' fitting in with Darkfall.

[Shadow Walker2020]

1. imo, Darkfall isn't an 'every man for himself' game, it's a 'every clan for itself' game; so I believe there will be enough in that regard.

Actually, it is every man for himself. Remeber this?

[QUOTE= The combine DF Questions]What is your goal with regard to solo balance? Will some classes be unable to function outside a group?

A good number of the developers are solo players so it's something that we feel is important to make viable. Since there are no classes in the game, players need to tweak their skillset carefully so that they can solo effectively depending on their playstyle. Everything is built and balanced with solo players in mind

Im just gonna go out on a limb here and guess that pretty much everyone forgot this statement. SCS doesnt fair too well for the solo player. I guess this was just a lie to attract more interest for the game...... oh well.

But then again, this could all easily be solved by putting two seperate servers. One for SCS and the other for SRS w/MCS. That way, this whole debate, which by the way as been beaten to death and beyond, can be put to an end.

[Red-Eye]

I despise the idea of everyone being able to make a crafter alt, it ruins my profession! Multi-characters just open up too much diversity per player, and it makes nothing unique. It makes "Flavor of the Month" characters pop up every goddamn time there's a patch, and everyone is able to just switch characters during a fight to something more suitable. Would it not be interesting to have variation in player abilities during combat? I'm sick of every single game requiring you to be decked out in awesome skills and items just to compete. In Darkfall it isn't going to be that way, don't squander the opportunity by allowing it to happen with multipler characters.

Right. I havn't actually played a game with SCS by I really want to try it. I hope the Devs go for SCS in beta becouse you can always put in more slots, it's harder to take them away. And if beta works, then have it in the beginning of the game.

Of course you won't be able to "enjoy" the whole game on One server but you can't do that on SRS either becouse of the race limit.
It would be so cool with SCS becouse you always know that maybe 95% only have that char on that server which means accountability and just pure roleplay all the time.


The devs should just make two servers. One with multiple characters slots and the other only allowing one. It solves the problem and everyone gets what they want. Case closed.

Well if you think DF will have that big a playerbase then ok but I suggest trying SCS in beta at least. I think almost everyone will see the greatness of it once they try it.

[Jinx]

1. imo, Darkfall isn't an 'every man for himself' game, it's a 'every clan for itself' game; so I believe there will be enough in that regard.

So you'd be willing to make a character you don't have fun playing, and play that and only that character for years, regularly, because it was something your clan needs? The point of a game, the reason you are in the clan in the first place (I'm guessing) is to have fun with some friends. If you decide to play a character you don't like, you aren't just taking one for the team, you are taking one every night of your Darkfall life, which will probably end up being short because you aren't having fun with the game.

[Osirus]

[quote=Osirus]1. imo, Darkfall isn't an 'every man for himself' game, it's a 'every clan for itself' game; so I believe there will be enough in that regard.

Actually, it is every man for himself. Remeber this?



Im just gonna go out on a limb here and guess that pretty much everyone forgot this statement. SCS doesnt fair too well for the solo player. I guess this was just a lie to attract more interest for the game...... oh well.

But then again, this could all easily be solved by putting two seperate servers. One for SCS and the other for SRS w/MCS.


you're obviously very passionate about having more than a single character, but have you ever heard of clan stones and/or sieges? do those sound like activities/mechanics built around/for the solo player?

it isn't logical to have 2 different servers for beta. the most logical step is to go beta with SCS; if it doesn't pan out, then either change to SRS or launch a stand alone SRS/MCS server.

[Osirus]

So you'd be willing to make a character you don't have fun playing, and play that and only that character for years, regularly, because it was something your clan needs? The point of a game, the reason you are in the clan in the first place (I'm guessing) is to have fun with some friends. If you decide to play a character you don't like, you aren't just taking one for the team, you are taking one every night of your Darkfall life, which will probably end up being short because you aren't having fun with the game.

well you see, the advantage I seem to have here; is I understand that a character can learn any skill and that characters are not restricted to a class.

I'm starting to wonder if some of you actually follow this game, because some of you are coming off as completely clueless.

[Krogan]

I see the devs point, however I think it limits the possiblity to roleplay. For example I have a few different characters that have their own personas and styles. So if I create a character called Isundir, an elven druid, and later I want to get into archery I have to create my ranger, Eildryn. I would be stuck with my first choice if I ever had a change of heart, or delete my old char which might not be what I wanted to do. Just because I felt like doing some archery which my main char would never get into.

However I do think there is a need to restrict things such as race or at least alignment. I would like to see the possbility of perhaps 4 chars per server, all of the same race and alignment.

[LiquidSwords]

i think it should be completely open, however many characters per race/per server.

at the end of the day, if i want to spy on someone, or grief another faction/race, ill get a 2nd account... and im sure a lot of people would too.

[Shadow Walker2020]

Right. I havn't actually played a game with SCS by I really want to try it. I hope the Devs go for SCS in beta becouse you can always put in more slots, it's harder to take them away. And if beta works, then have it in the beginning of the game.

Of course you won't be able to "enjoy" the whole game on One server but you can't do that on SRS either becouse of the race limit.
It would be so cool with SCS becouse you always know that maybe 95% only have that char on that server which means accountability and just pure roleplay all the time.




Well if you think DF will have that big a playerbase then ok but I suggest trying SCS in beta at least. I think almost everyone will see the greatness of it once they try it.

Well, all I can say is, you cant force your beliefs of what you believe to be great on others. All you can do is come to a compromise that accomodates all parties involved. With that, I shall reiterate my stance:

I dont like SCS. Its great for a single player game, or something like playing Halo on Bungie, but not an MMO. Im not saying other people shoudnt like it, thats your thing and personally, I dont care. I want to be able to play using multiple characters. One, because I like usings more than one character and two, ive got to split my account with my brothers and sister. And three, I dont want to have to go play on another server to make another character to try out a new skills set and I dont want to have to drop all of my characters current skills to try a new skill set. I know that there are others who share my predicament and others who do not. I know that there are others who like to play using multiple characters for what reasons, I dont know and, again, dont care. All I know is what I want. And I personally feel that this game wont make it without BOTH SCS and SRS/MCS advocates. Thats right, I said it,BOTH. Without all of us, the game wont make it. It needs both styles of players. Infact, this game needs as many players it can get, while staying within the bounds of the games original concept, which was an evolving world centered on PvP.

But, there is, however and thankfully, a reasonable compromise to all of this. Two servers. One for the players who want the hard core experience and realism and blah blah blah, etc etc etc. And the other, for the people like me who want multiple characters for the freedom and the not wanting to have to re-skill their character every time they want to try a new skill set and all of that other blah blah blah blah BLAH. Im sick of the argument already.

Hey, Devs, You guys want to solve your problem and still keep your game going? Its easy, Two servers. One for the Single character advocates and one for the single race multiple character advocates. Everyone wins, especially you guys. You'll get a successful game without losing any of your current followers. No one in their right mind could have a problem with that. Everyone gets what they want. Darkfall gets to keep its current following and will have a healthy number of players ready to get on the game when it comes out. The last thing you guys need to do right now is drive away any potential players. You need to appease as many players as you can to keep the interested in the game. So Ill say it again: Two servers. One for SCS and one for SRS/MCS.

[Nefyr]

I think SRS removes the point of having multiple races. What if someone wants to try a new race on the same server with all of their friends without having to find a new server which they all agree to? DF allows you to have one very versatile character which can fulfil all of your PvP/crafting/whatever needs. While it may be a drawback to have one char. per server, allowing only one race is essentially excluding the player from all aspects of the game. Each race plays differently and interacts with the world in its own way, why should players only get to see one side of the game?

[Shadow Walker2020]

you're obviously very passionate about having more than a single character, but have you ever heard of clan stones and/or sieges? do those sound like activities/mechanics built around/for the solo player?

Hey, chuckles, those arent the only features of the game. Those are geared specifically for the clans. But, then theres the monsters, dungeons, islands and all of those hundreds of acres of handcrafted land to explore. If the gamer were solely geard for clans, they why do they have all of this other stuff to do? Huh? Ill tell you why. Because clans are the only ones who want to play this game. Clans certianly wont be out exploring and stuff. No, theyll be barracaded in their precious cities worrying about whos gonna attack them next, gripped in paranoia. Dont turn this into that BS debate of whether or not this game is all about clans, becasue youll lose. Someone tried before, and they lost. This game isnt all about the clans.

it isn't logical to have 2 different servers for beta. the most logical step is to go beta with SCS; if it doesn't pan out, then either change to SRS or launch a stand alone SRS/MCS server.

They have to test them both at the same time. They have to accomodate as many players as they can with this game or its gonna flop. Its a new game, it needs all the support it can get. And the only way to do that is to have enough players playing it, in both beta and after relese, for it to take off. Its not only logistics, but business as well. They can still keep this a niche game for PvPers, but they need to widen the range to all forms of PvPers. This include those who want SCS and SRS/MCS.

[G.Struepp]

I prefer one Char per Server.

You might be free to learn nearly every skill, but since there is going to be a softcap player will probably create mules for their needs. It depends a lot of the various main skill directions though, i guess even a craftermule needs to leave his house from time to time, so he needs combat skills aswell. Imho mules always steal a bit fun out of the economy, not allowing mules would really support crafting and trading.

However - if there is only one server in the beginning, than Single Race per Server is a must, to try different skill combinations. But the Chars have to be related, a connection either by last name, or by alignment, or even both.
Because if someone decides he wants to become the

[RasputinMRC]

The very idea that one character can do everything is preposterous.
Not only is it extremely unrealistic in itself, (who in r/l do you know, that can do everything to perfection?), but it will also be a joke to see a person change role 100% on the battlefield - suddenly a fully plate clad warrior will take off his armor and begin casting spells. Or an archer will go stealth and take out his assassin daggers. Or the same guy will later stand in a mine and extract ore, just to later on go smith it, whereafter he begins sewing ballroom dresses. Tssssssk...

I can't see what could motivate anyone to make such a system, and I can't grasp what the devs want to achieve with it. All they will do is make undefinable characters, that people will have a hard time identifying with, because they are everything like everyone else - and thus everybody will be nothing, having their role negated by everyone else's expertise.

Just wait and see, macroing programs like those that existed for UO will be created, and progression will be a matter of time only - how long a character has existed, not how much someone trained him (because a macroing program will have done it).

-----------------------------------

Finally to the question:
One character per server is *NOT* a solution! Even if every character can do everything (even that the devs hint at this fact makes me sick!), I like to play both PvP and PK'ing. If there is any kind of punishment system in place, then I will not be able to do both on the same character, since a red character will not be able to participate in "ordinary" PvP.

Change server to make a PK team? Not a good solution - I like to stay on the server where I have built my reputation, and where I know people, no matter what the playstyle.