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Tasos
08-06-2010, 13:08
I decided to post this followup because we felt that our answers in the recent Q&A (http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/Paragus1/082010/6540_Darkfall-Community-QA-with-Aventurine-2) failed to register and our intentions seemed to be misunderstood by a segment of the community.

The problem we faced with the questions asked is that they were mostly about topics we cannot discuss yet and that’s why it took us a while to deliver it. Rather than to not respond or to avoid answering most of them, we decided out of respect for the community to address every single question as best as we could. Some people mention that Syncaine’s recent posts about his visit to Aventurine are more informative than the community QA. A part of it was because through the interaction with us he was able to ask the right questions.

Before I go into the content within the Q&A, I have to explain that when we say that we’re looking into something, or considering, or have plans for, it doesn’t mean that we’re being evasive or diplomatic in our answers. If that was our intention, we simply wouldn’t answer. It means that we’re trying to give you actual insight or confirmation on what we can’t go into detail about. These statements are supported by a sequence of events that has taken place at Aventurine involving a number of Darkfall developers doing real work, a lot of planning and meetings taking place, infrastructure being designed and implemented, testing, documentation, community feedback taken into consideration, player feedback, support tickets, bug reports etc. depending on what we’re talking about. There’s a professional pipeline in place. Even when we say there are no plans for something, like an alliance bank for example, the process has still run its course and we’ve decided against it.

When we post something about upcoming features publicly, anything, it gets multiple authorizations before it goes out and there’s nothing informal about it. The specific QA replies were collaboration between Claus Grovdal, and Kjetil Helland and myself. There’s real information in the Q&A and a lot more insight to be found than skimming quickly through it might reveal:

Darkfall’s expansion was delayed due to a testing failure in a major feature we decided to add to it. There was an announcement about this and our newest estimate is one month with an effort to make it sooner. This won’t delay further development and on that topic, we are running parallel development of Darkfall and Darkfall 2010. This means that there are two different development efforts going on at the moment. We regret that the expansion was delayed repeatedly, but it’s only because we’re trying to deliver more than expected.

We mention that we’ve added new designers to the team to help the design team test and evaluate the balance of literally everything in the game and make all the necessary changes, improvements, and adjustments needed. This means everything: skills, spells, items, damage output, loot tables, various mechanics etc. Imagine how the results from this effort can impact the game, add to it that your feedback is very important in this process and you should be able to understand better what we’re trying to do here.

Prestige classes are the largest feature ever added to Darkfall and will definitely change the face of the game. The final design for them is complete. From here we go to the technical design, implementation, testing, evaluation, more testing etc. Sounds like this will take forever but it won’t. The functionality is all there. We cannot announce how many prestige classes there will be when they’re released because everything is subject to change from names, to skills, spells, requirements, and some may not even make it out of testing. There will be, however, a good variation of them offered at release and we’ll keep adding new ones. Prestige classes will be getting a full presentation of their own before long. Until then, a lot of people at Aventurine, even some of the developers don’t know more than you do right now.

Getting a Darkfall box out is underway and Darkfall is available now through most digital download channels and we’re in talks to get it on more of them. Each one of these initiatives in terms of effort is like a commercial re-launch of the game and requires a lot of work by a lot of people in many areas and a lot of coordination of several companies around the world.

Several new spells and alignment changes to the way you gain or lose alignment are on their way. These are generally considered important additions to a game. We also mention in the QA that we’ll reward mages for being mages and not simply through removing fizzle from spells. This is and should be big news for mages.

Villages and Sea Fortresses are getting more improvements. Recent improvements to Sea Fortresses were major additions to the game based on community feedback and suggestions, and future improvements to villages are as well. For example, we’ve already mentioned in a recent interview that players who cap a village will split the reward between themselves and the clan, and there’s more. We’ve also taken the community feedback on the Sea Fortress timing issue and we’re looking into it. We also confirm that new villages and housing slots will be made available.

We mentioned that we’re adding more PvP centric additions on land other than the villages and this brief mention hides significant features we cannot discuss yet, but the fact we can’t expand on these doesn’t mean they aren’t coming.

Darkfall’s user interface is being remade. This means we’re throwing away the old interface and a brand new one is being designed and coded from scratch. An interface for a game like Darkfall can take years to make, it’s a major development effort. We’ve been working on it for a long time now and everything we’ve learned so far is going into this, including a lot of your feedback. We believe that it will greatly improve the user experience.

We’re actively working on differentiating the races and this is a large ongoing project within Aventurine. We’re working on making races more unique and enhancing the racial element of the game; there’s consistency in the work being done in this area. It’s a balancing act but we feel that a pronounced racial element will greatly enhance the game and we hope that you agree. Someone posted that the question was simply asking if we’ll offer a race change option, in which case, we’ve already announced that we will. The Mahirim 4 legged run, mentioned in the Q&A, is still alive. As far as functionality it’s complete down to the final animations. We hope to be able to use this as soon as all races have something equally as cool and useful. It won’t be easy, and it’s a process, but whether we succeed or not, the last statement should give you an idea of how much there is in store as far as racial differentiation goes.

We mentioned that waves may be added to the sea. This may not sound like much on its own unless you take into account the tactics behind it. Add the possibility of weather impact on sailing a ship and the dynamic changes completely. Imagine yourself in a naval battle behind a cannon in a stormy sea bobbing up and down as your captain is having a hard time steering into the wind as he’s fighting to get positioning on your enemies. We’ve taken a lot of steps towards improving the naval element, and we’ll keep supporting that..

Archers are getting new weapon types and ammo types and they’re also getting secondary skills in connection to prestige classes. I didn’t think we needed to explain this statement, but in retrospect we should have put more emphasis on “new weapon types” and “new ammo types”. And to explain even further: right now archers have just one weapon type: the bow, and one ammo type: the arrow.

Concerning the global messaging system, we like that players can know in real-time what’s going on in the world. We like that there’s risk in making certain decisions. There are drawbacks to be sure but in our pros and cons list, the pros outweigh the cons. Are we open to considering making adjustments to this? Of course we are, if we believe it’s what’s best for the game and for the majority of the players.

About player deaths to falling damage, we don’t like it and we’ve tested this a lot. Players in early beta may recall that you could die to falling, something that we quickly removed. Dying in a full loot game, with a lot of elevation you can access freely, due a misstep or lag, can be extremely annoying. Are you prepared to die to falling damage once every so often and possibly lose everything you’ve got? It’s not like you don’t take falling damage now, and if someone is abusing the system during PvP, it should be easier in most cases for his opponents to kill him than gravity. As with the global messages, nothing is carved in stone but please allow us to have a strong opinion now and again.

We’re rolling out a political map and several other clan tools. We also have several plans for additions to clan cities and we’re working on implementing various types of clan insignia. What’s behind the previous statement should be pretty big news for clans.

We announced that we’re working in the direction of mobs leveling up, and mobs attacking player cities. We didn’t mention this in the Q&A but this should be in the next expansion plus a lot more as far as PvE goes. We’re mentioning it now because it was confirmed to me today.

There was a whole feature about the ambient sound system which should be one of the best in MMOs and that’s why we didn’t go into detail about it, however the feature itself and the supporting video were inspired by the Q&A question.

We’re moving towards more end-game PvE content with the total dungeon revamp. Again this is a huge undertaking in several stages and a big change to the game. We also stated that we’re adding new dungeons.

A portal system is being evaluated to make sure that it will be good for the game.

We confirmed that we’re working on more character customizations like dyes. We also restated our strong commitment to boost crafting with significant additions to the game along the lines of the recently announced addition of rare ores to metal nodes, and adding a very large number of craftable-only items.

Keep in mind that all this is running concurrently in different stages in the pipeline. These are not long-term plans. Consider that there’s a lot more in the pipeline than what we’ve talked about here, things that we haven’t announced yet. This is not a wish-list; these are things we’re putting a lot of work into as we speak.

Perhaps we could have spelled things out more in the Q&A, but consider that we’re working very hard at the moment, we’re also missing a few people who are taking their vacations, and we don’t feel comfortable at all going into details before it’s time. As for the timing, we’re busting our asses to get these things done right as soon as possible and that’s the best I can give you outside of what you already know. This Q&A mostly touched on to-be-announced items. There will be proper announcements and spotlight features on everything as they become ready.

Thank you for reading

Resfelm
08-06-2010, 13:09
We would like to ask that if you want to post in this thread, please be constructive and civil toward other community members and the developers.

kozzmozz
08-06-2010, 13:23
a lot of people at Aventurine, even some of the developers don’t know more than you do right now.


I must say that scared me a bit :p but on a serious note now, dont listen to the hate, u guys doing a good job thats why many of us are still here, no matter how much complaining DF rocks !

some constructive thinking on my part : make more single clan benefits then alliance ones. Atm the fun parts as seatower and such are mostly done by the big 3. plz consider more things to do for smaller clans, unallied clans etc ...

thx

LightFall
08-06-2010, 13:24
Tasos,

this is a quality post !!

Avefenix
08-06-2010, 13:26
Mobs attacking cities!

Wizard of Yndor
08-06-2010, 13:29
This means that there are two different development efforts going on at the moment. We regret that the expansion was delayed repeatedly, but it’s only because we’re trying to deliver more than expected.


And your team has always delivered more than I have expected since day one. Your efforts are greatly appreciated by many of us as well, even if we don't post it vocally very often- Thank you!

The game is currently ~60 some odd weeks into development, and we are in built #57. That's a hell of an impressive ratio! Especially for a smallish dev team.

Finally, thank you again for this follow-up post. It was very nice to read.

MEGAFACE
08-06-2010, 13:29
Thanks, great info to whats going on 10/10 :)

Mega London:ninja:

Mobed
08-06-2010, 13:32
Seriously, a much better effort thanks.

LightFall
08-06-2010, 13:34
Mobs attacking cities!

if they can implement this, and as I read it, they just did, this game will rock as it had never before

Dartax
08-06-2010, 13:34
I decided to post this followup because we felt that our answers in the recent Q&A (http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/Paragus1/082010/6540_Darkfall-Community-QA-with-Aventurine-2) failed to register and our intentions seemed to be misunderstood by a segment of the community.

The problem we faced with the questions asked is that they were mostly about topics we cannot discuss yet and that’s why it took us a while to deliver it. Rather than to not respond or to avoid answering most of them, we decided out of respect for the community to address every single question as best as we could. Some people mention that Syncaine’s recent posts about his visit to Aventurine are more informative than the community QA. A part of it was because through the interaction with us he was able to ask the right questions.

Before I go into the content within the Q&A, I have to explain that when we say that we’re looking into something, or considering, or have plans for, it doesn’t mean that we’re being evasive or diplomatic in our answers. If that was our intention, we simply wouldn’t answer. It means that we’re trying to give you actual insight or confirmation on what we can’t go into detail about. These statements are supported by a sequence of events that has taken place at Aventurine involving a number of Darkfall developers doing real work, a lot of planning and meetings taking place, infrastructure being designed and implemented, testing, documentation, community feedback taken into consideration, player feedback, support tickets, bug reports etc. depending on what we’re talking about. There’s a professional pipeline in place. Even when we say there are no plans for something, like an alliance bank for example, the process has still run its course and we’ve decided against it.

When we post something about upcoming features publicly, anything, it gets multiple authorizations before it goes out and there’s nothing informal about it. The specific QA replies were collaboration between Claus Grovdal, and Kjetil Helland and myself. There’s real information in the Q&A and a lot more insight to be found than skimming quickly through it might reveal:

Darkfall’s expansion was delayed due to a testing failure in a major feature we decided to add to it. There was an announcement about this and our newest estimate is one month with an effort to make it sooner. This won’t delay further development and on that topic, we are running parallel development of Darkfall and Darkfall 2010. This means that there are two different development efforts going on at the moment. We regret that the expansion was delayed repeatedly, but it’s only because we’re trying to deliver more than expected.

We mention that we’ve added new designers to the team to help the design team test and evaluate the balance of literally everything in the game and make all the necessary changes, improvements, and adjustments needed. This means everything: skills, spells, items, damage output, loot tables, various mechanics etc. Imagine how the results from this effort can impact the game, add to it that your feedback is very important in this process and you should be able to understand better what we’re trying to do here.

Prestige classes are the largest feature ever added to Darkfall and will definitely change the face of the game. The final design for them is complete. From here we go to the technical design, implementation, testing, evaluation, more testing etc. Sounds like this will take forever but it won’t. The functionality is all there. We cannot announce how many prestige classes there will be when they’re released because everything is subject to change from names, to skills, spells, requirements, and some may not even make it out of testing. There will be, however, a good variation of them offered at release and we’ll keep adding new ones. Prestige classes will be getting a full presentation of their own before long. Until then, a lot of people at Aventurine, even some of the developers don’t know more than you do right now.

Getting a Darkfall box out is underway and Darkfall is available now through most digital download channels and we’re in talks to get it on more of them. Each one of these initiatives in terms of effort is like a commercial re-launch of the game and requires a lot of work by a lot of people in many areas and a lot of coordination of several companies around the world.

Several new spells and alignment changes to the way you gain or lose alignment are on their way. These are generally considered important additions to a game. We also mention in the QA that we’ll reward mages for being mages and not simply through removing fizzle from spells. This is and should be big news for mages.

Villages and Sea Fortresses are getting more improvements. Recent improvements to Sea Fortresses were major additions to the game based on community feedback and suggestions, and future improvements to villages are as well. For example, we’ve already mentioned in a recent interview that players who cap a village will split the reward between themselves and the clan, and there’s more. We’ve also taken the community feedback on the Sea Fortress timing issue and we’re looking into it. We also confirm that new villages and housing slots will be made available.

We mentioned that we’re adding more PvP centric additions on land other than the villages and this brief mention hides significant features we cannot discuss yet, but the fact we can’t expand on these doesn’t mean they aren’t coming.

Darkfall’s user interface is being remade. This means we’re throwing away the old interface and a brand new one is being designed and coded from scratch. An interface for a game like Darkfall can take years to make, it’s a major development effort. We’ve been working on it for a long time now and everything we’ve learned so far is going into this, including a lot of your feedback. We believe that it will greatly improve the user experience.

We’re actively working on differentiating the races and this is a large ongoing project within Aventurine. We’re working on making races more unique and enhancing the racial element of the game; there’s consistency in the work being done in this area. It’s a balancing act but we feel that a pronounced racial element will greatly enhance the game and we hope that you agree. Someone posted that the question was simply asking if we’ll offer a race change option, in which case, we’ve already announced that we will. The Mahirim 4 legged run, mentioned in the Q&A, is still alive. As far as functionality it’s complete down to the final animations. We hope to be able to use this as soon as all races have something equally as cool and useful. It won’t be easy, and it’s a process, but whether we succeed or not, the last statement should give you an idea of how much there is in store as far as racial differentiation goes.

We mentioned that waves may be added to the sea. This may not sound like much on its own unless you take into account the tactics behind it. Add the possibility of weather impact on sailing a ship and the dynamic changes completely. Imagine yourself in a naval battle behind a cannon in a stormy sea bobbing up and down as your captain is having a hard time steering into the wind as he’s fighting to get positioning on your enemies. We’ve taken a lot of steps towards improving the naval element, and we’ll keep supporting that..

Archers are getting new weapon types and ammo types and they’re also getting secondary skills in connection to prestige classes. I didn’t think we needed to explain this statement, but in retrospect we should have put more emphasis on “new weapon types” and “new ammo types”. And to explain even further: right now archers have just one weapon type: the bow, and one ammo type: the arrow.

Concerning the global messaging system, we like that players can know in real-time what’s going on in the world. We like that there’s risk in making certain decisions. There are drawbacks to be sure but in our pros and cons list, the pros outweigh the cons. Are we open to considering making adjustments to this? Of course we are, if we believe it’s what’s best for the game and for the majority of the players.

About player deaths to falling damage, we don’t like it and we’ve tested this a lot. Players in early beta may recall that you could die to falling, something that we quickly removed. Dying in a full loot game, with a lot of elevation you can access freely, due a misstep or lag, can be extremely annoying. Are you prepared to die to falling damage once every so often and possibly lose everything you’ve got? It’s not like you don’t take falling damage now, and if someone is abusing the system during PvP, it should be easier in most cases for his opponents to kill him than gravity. As with the global messages, nothing is carved in stone but please allow us to have a strong opinion now and again.

We’re rolling out a political map and several other clan tools. We also have several plans for additions to clan cities and we’re working on implementing various types of clan insignia. What’s behind the previous statement should be pretty big news for clans.

We announced that we’re working in the direction of mobs leveling up, and mobs attacking player cities. We didn’t mention this in the Q&A but this should be in the next expansion plus a lot more as far as PvE goes. We’re mentioning it now because it was confirmed to me today.

There was a whole feature about the ambient sound system which should be one of the best in MMOs and that’s why we didn’t go into detail about it, however the feature itself and the supporting video were inspired by the Q&A question.

We’re moving towards more end-game PvE content with the total dungeon revamp. Again this is a huge undertaking in several stages and a big change to the game. We also stated that we’re adding new dungeons.

A portal system is being evaluated to make sure that it will be good for the game.

We confirmed that we’re working on more character customizations like dyes. We also restated our strong commitment to boost crafting with significant additions to the game along the lines of the recently announced addition of rare ores to metal nodes, and adding a very large number of craftable-only items.

Keep in mind that all this is running concurrently in different stages in the pipeline. These are not long-term plans. Consider that there’s a lot more in the pipeline than what we’ve talked about here, things that we haven’t announced yet. This is not a wish-list; these are things we’re putting a lot of work into as we speak.

Perhaps we could have spelled things out more in the Q&A, but consider that we’re working very hard at the moment, we’re also missing a few people who are taking their vacations, and we don’t feel comfortable at all going into details before it’s time. As for the timing, we’re busting our asses to get these things done right as soon as possible and that’s the best I can give you outside of what you already know. This Q&A mostly touched on to-be-announced items. There will be proper announcements and spotlight features on everything as they become ready.

Thank you for reading

This info is 100 times better that original answers.

CSkydt
08-06-2010, 13:34
You are working on too much at a time.

You should release more often.

OGuz
08-06-2010, 13:35
a good read fore developers here, please read
http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=256161

Blackdfl
08-06-2010, 13:35
Tasos...one word.

Bravo!

Temko Firewing
08-06-2010, 13:35
okay,

...now THIS is fucking feedback.
god damnit AV - do this MORE MORE MORE MORE MORE.

(see, constructive)

i have but one question remaining, and it's the same one i keep asking and repeating:

WHEN.

see, we've seen one "moderate" update to the game since the release of the Cts expansion, some 8 months ago, and a few minor ones.

we all know, that nearly 99% of hte things you introduce to the game are "awesome". the biggest, and MAJOR problem is lack of concrete feedback (like this post) and the fact that there are repeated, extensive and constant delays.


see. we like knowing whats coming.
problem: we actally WANT it. yesterday.

and i think we can all agree, sure, a delay of a few weeks - we can live with.
a delay of 3 months - thats gets harder to swallow.

chokke
08-06-2010, 13:36
Just a small suggestion, how about actually releasing some of the working features that the expansion going to get as standalone patches (like you did with strongbox)?
I mean, like the mounts for instance (unless that is the major feature that failed during testing), people would be happy with small amounts of new additions every now and then. Instead of waiting for 9 features cause the last one got some issues. The 9 alone is good enough for the expansion (at least when the waitingtime and delays have been going on for so long) and then you can add the tenth in a patch later on.
Cause I am pretty sure you know about some things taht WILL be in the expansion. And don't tell me mount + terrain alone is what is planned for this expansion..?

Futilelol
08-06-2010, 13:38
okay,

...now THIS is fucking feedback.
god damnit AV - do this MORE MORE MORE MORE MORE.

(see, constructive)

i have but one question remaining, and it's the same one i keep asking and repeating:

WHEN.

see, we've seen one "moderate" update to the game since the release of the Cts expansion, some 8 months ago, and a few minor ones.

we all know, that nearly 99% of hte things you introduce to the game are "awesome". the biggest, and MAJOR problem is lack of concrete feedback (like this post) and the fact that there are repeated, extensive and constant delays.


see. we like knowing whats coming.
problem: we actally WANT it. yesterday.

and i think we can all agree, sure, a delay of a few weeks - we can live with.
a delay of 3 months - thats gets harder to swallow.

If I read Tasos' post correctly, its another month for the expansion.

Signus
08-06-2010, 13:39
While I didn't really have a problem with many of the answers in the first Q&A and understand the need to be vague about things that are not complete, I have to say, the follow up really got me pumped about the future of the game. Especially the elaboration on my interest in the leveling NPCs. I did NOT expect that in the next expansion.

Thanks for taking the extra time for the elaboration!

Torinar
08-06-2010, 13:39
This is a better Q&A, thank you.

Temko Firewing
08-06-2010, 13:40
If I read Tasos' post correctly, its another month for the expansion.

yep.
making it June> juli (1), August (2), September (3) months delay :(

Stormtrooper
08-06-2010, 13:41
Archers are getting new weapon types and ammo types and they’re also getting secondary skills in connection to prestige classes. I didn’t think we needed to explain this statement, but in retrospect we should have put more emphasis on “new weapon types” and “new ammo types”. And to explain even further: right now archers have just one weapon type: the bow, and one ammo type: the arrow.


Sounds good!



Concerning the global messaging system, we like that players can know in real-time what’s going on in the world. We like that there’s risk in making certain decisions. There are drawbacks to be sure but in our pros and cons list, the pros outweigh the cons. Are we open to considering making adjustments to this? Of course we are, if we believe it’s what’s best for the game and for the majority of the players.


How about further improving regionalization and change the global message into a regional message? Like: everyone in the region is able to see the realtime in-game message; regions divided into racial area's, subcontinents and maybe even Central Agon Area overlapping parts of the racial area's.

Kasmos
08-06-2010, 13:44
Tasos and Aventurine,

This is the kind of post that I truly appreciate. I know these past few days I've been upset and have shown my disappointment about the Q&A in these forums, but it's only because I, as so many others who were showing disappointment, love this game so much and see it's true potential.

Thank you for posting this, and I truly hope you realize how important posts like these are to us, your community. By just making this post you have helped regain faith back not only in myself, but I can guarantee those in the community that have been pissed off these past few days.

Enjoy your weekend and I look forward to your future update, now just don't leave us in the dark for 3 more weeks again :sly:

Sincerely,

Kasmos - subscriber since February 25th, 2009

Melgaroth
08-06-2010, 13:47
Thanks for the hard work AV, this is the best MMO out there and the more polish it has the more people it will attract and keep. (The UI being one of the biggest turn offs)

Squeegee
08-06-2010, 13:49
I think the haters would be hating less if they weren't dealing with broken mobs on top of the delayed expac. Not that I think they aren't working on it.

kdchan
08-06-2010, 13:55
... and alignment changes to the way you gain or lose alignment are on their way. These are generally considered important additions to a game.

You know, thee actual align suck because blue people kill other racial blue people and FARM align back using an alt. A timer will be appreciated, more u kill more u stay red. Is not so hard.
Also if a unclanned join a party with someone in war with you or rogue or red, the unclanned turn rogue too, so he can't be used as a shield.
These issues are in the game since launch and you never adress them, for me are game breaking.


We also mention in the QA that we’ll reward mages for being mages and not simply through removing fizzle from spells. This is and should be big news for mages.

If you don't increase encumbrance and penalties for wearing armours, mages will be hybrid forever. A mage should wear a bone, but atm mages walk around in infernal, why? If a mage wear a piece of armour the encumbrance should be so high that he fizzle 8 speels on 10.
Also made all non-elemental spells not affected by encumbrance, like lesser magic and greater magic, witchcraft and spellchanting.

You promise exp increase regarding self-buffs, cause atm it take ages to leveling up them, and where are the repetitive quest with stats point as reward? This is a good alternative to grind, at least you have something better to achieve to progress more fast your stats/skills.


For example, we’ve already mentioned in a recent interview that players who cap a village will split the reward between themselves and the clan, and there’s more. We’ve also taken the community feedback on the Sea Fortress timing issue and we’re looking into it. We also confirm that new villages and housing slots will be made available.

This is good, but what about the fact that enemies can bank in the player town? Upgrade the clan bank.


Darkfall’s user interface is being remade.

This is good. Using different colors for every event will be good.


...there’s consistency in the work being done in this area. It’s a balancing act but we feel that a pronounced racial element will greatly enhance the game and we hope that you agree. Someone posted that the question was simply asking if we’ll offer a race change option, in which case, we’ve already announced that we will. The Mahirim 4 legged run, mentioned in the Q&A, is still alive. As far as functionality it’s complete down to the final animations. We hope to be able to use this as soon as all races have something equally as cool and useful. It won’t be easy, and it’s a process, but whether we succeed or not, the last statement should give you an idea of how much there is in store as far as racial differentiation goes.

I'm happy for this, more racial wars, change race, are necessary additions.


About player deaths to falling damage, we don’t like it and we’ve tested this a lot. Players in early beta may recall that you could die to falling, something that we quickly removed. Dying in a full loot game, with a lot of elevation you can access freely, due a misstep or lag, can be extremely annoying. Are you prepared to die to falling damage once every so often and possibly lose everything you’ve got? It’s not like you don’t take falling damage now, and if someone is abusing the system during PvP, it should be easier in most cases for his opponents to kill him than gravity. As with the global messages, nothing is carved in stone but please allow us to have a strong opinion now and again.

Sorry, but here i'm not agree with you. Death for excessive falling damage remove the BUNNY HOPPING from the game. BUNNY HOPPING is a broken game mechanic that allow pkers to escape a battle or walk more fast than a mount. Is a immersion breaker for me.


We announced that we’re working in the direction of mobs leveling up, and mobs attacking player cities. We didn’t mention this in the Q&A but this should be in the next expansion plus a lot more as far as PvE goes. We’re mentioning it now because it was confirmed to me today.

Mobs attack the town? I'm in for it. Nice addition. :D


A portal system is being evaluated to make sure that it will be good for the game.

I'm against this, actual system is fine. More easy travelling = more zerg, like the system global message.


We confirmed that we’re working on more character customizations like dyes. We also restated our strong commitment to boost crafting with significant additions to the game along the lines of the recently announced addition of rare ores to metal nodes, and adding a very large number of craftable-only items.

Nice, but i think that a deep specialization will be good, if u choose to be a armoursmither u can't be weaponsmither too and so on.
Also the player vendor in player/npc towns are NECESSARY for the econom and the crafters, this with a global ingame chart of crafters and location where u can buy the items.


This is not a wish-list; these are things we’re putting a lot of work into as we speak.

Hope you are right, but i give you a tip, open a TEST SERVER, is good for us to test upcoming changes before you implememnt them in the main server, don't think? U can balance them better with the direct feedback of players.


Thank you for reading

Thanks you for reply.

Avefenix
08-06-2010, 13:55
if they can implement this, and as I read it, they just did, this game will rock as it had never before
Not more peacefull nights at cities:D

Crulty
08-06-2010, 14:03
great feedback!

SadMaz
08-06-2010, 14:04
tyvm....i wasnt as upset as some that need guidance to understand when u answered bout archers or new ammo..or even for the race change that was confirmed months ago,but this follow up was great

Paragus
08-06-2010, 14:04
Great follow up man.

Temko Firewing
08-06-2010, 14:05
Great follow up man.

thank you for making the shitstorm that triggered this possible :)

KORVOSX666XXXX
08-06-2010, 14:08
awesome follow-up but keep it going, keep us informed. Don't go into another month without talking after giving us good information.

ISVRaDa
08-06-2010, 14:12
This is not a wish-list; these are things we’re putting a lot of work into as we speak.

Well said!

This was necessary, and you did :)

Best regards o/

Horseman
08-06-2010, 14:15
Best update ever.

I especially feel happy about your focus on the racial element and hope we will see a spotlight about that soon.

Paragus
08-06-2010, 14:17
thank you for making the shitstorm that triggered this possible :)

Heh, believe me I felt really bad about the fact that there was so much rage as a result of this. My goal was to help facilitate communication. I wanted to give the players a chance to get their questions answered, AV a chance to talk about what they are working on, and raise awareness for the game with the platform I have. You have no idea how bad I felt when I saw the fallout from everything.

I am glad though that now there seems to be a dialogue and hopefully we can see more of this type of communication.

smeagollum
08-06-2010, 14:18
Thank You Tasos! :D

Emolas
08-06-2010, 14:19
+rep

Solvito
08-06-2010, 14:20
thank you tasos, good update..

you will be receiving money from me in september...i like what you state but i wont be paying back till the expansion. its been a lot of waiting and im a bit tired about it.

Temko Firewing
08-06-2010, 14:20
You have no idea how bad I felt when I saw the fallout from everything.

I am glad though that now there seems to be a dialogue and hopefully we can see more of this type of communication.

why should you feel bad for the... less then satisfactory answers, you did all you could setting it up, and AV messed up.
They have made it more then right with this update except for the "when" part.
(like, in june, 2010 that is)

we are all happy you did the work of getting the questions set up, sent in, prepped and posted. the issue what with the vague, useless and sometimes even contradicting answers in the Q&A.

if they had asnwere the QA with the information Tasos has posted here, the only fallout would be due to the even longer delay.

SynCaine
08-06-2010, 14:30
On the EG scale, I give this post 2/10.

How do I cast a spell!? :log out:

Lord Zeb
08-06-2010, 14:31
Great post, Tasos, this will alleviate a LOT of tension in the community, as you can see of all the above answers.

People are just a bit anxious as you by your actions and priorities do not show that you remain true to your original concepts, or if you realise the impact the lack of certain systems or their failures have.

Especially when we seem to have certain differences in views, such as when you released the Fun Hulks... we asked for Sand Box Tools and you presented Sand Box Toys. No wonder the players went into an uproar when there is a consensus on the boards that there is many important things that need to be worked on, and they felt that you were squandering resources, while you actually were salvaging some extra time from developers that was hard to be put in use elsewhere.

It is also very hard to see if you realise where the problems lie, what are symptoms and what are the underlying causes... At least you have realised that small changes can have far-going consequences. (I hope you also realise that small system failures that already exist can have far-going effects, and that you are able to analyze where these are... or at least learn from the analyses presented in the fora.) So, proper feedback is of essence now, to re-establish the trust of the community, and it would be good if you could present AV's dreams of where you wish to go and not only what you think will happend.


As for this debacle, do not be disconcerted... See it as a learning opportunity in Customer Service skills. (You have come very far from where you were a year ago, but have still much to learn.) The above answers were probably in your eyes not much different from the ones you gave before, but see the great difference in their reception!

There is a difference in being vague and overcautious in responses not to make promises you cannot hold; and being open with details of what is actually happening and avoiding making promises by giving details people can cling to regarding minimal amounts of data regarding what is being discussed. (Releasing info like "we aim to have at least 20 Prestige classes when starting out, might release many more in the first go and will be adding more by the way" if you were planning on releasing 40 and are sure that at least half would be presentable within a good time limit, is much better than saying "we will have lots of prestige classes... but what "lots" mean we cannot divulge as we aren't done yet".) The deliverance of a message can be more important than the content, regarding it's reception.

Giving out details should be done carefully so they do not sound like promises, but make them sound more like ideals you strive for rather than "possibilities you are evaluating that probably aren't gonna happend and therefore are unimportant", and you might get followers instead of doubters.
Like you did during the development of the game.

Arquiteto
08-06-2010, 14:34
Thank you!
This post was much better than the Q & A. It actually felt like a real answer.

doomahx
08-06-2010, 14:36
Awesome post.

I think this is what a lot of people want Tasos, regular communication like this.

blob
08-06-2010, 14:36
a good read fore developers here, please read
http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=256161

nice read,
now every day your developers come to work should read above post that player Dawkison had writen.

next find the man who gave name to new sandbox feature fun hulks and tell him to call them small goblin hulks (change look of them they look terrible )and that they should do very small dmg to everything in the world but most to other primitive goblin hulks. special ability of them is that they can be used in player made events.

next tell the same man that flags that looks like finish of some car race game dont fit in darkfall and should look like ancient gate or anything lore related to darkfall. now let players make events and have FUN.

Maia
08-06-2010, 14:36
Well said!

This was necessary, and you did :)

Best regards o/

You are right. It was needed if they don't want to lose more customers, but it's nothing to smile about.

The truth is that is just another covered month of delay. The yesterday Q/A was a joke. More Spotlights with video/screenshots about the coming features are needed while we wait if they want to keep the people that pays them interested and satisfied. We don't like long silences, especially not after the announce of long delays.

One sugestion to the developers: There is no point in improving Darkfall distribution if new players don't stay in the game after the trial. That's whats happening right now and you should ask yourself why.

Victis honor
08-06-2010, 14:37
Concerning the global messaging system, we like that players can know in real-time what’s going on in the world. We like that there’s risk in making certain decisions. There are drawbacks to be sure but in our pros and cons list, the pros outweigh the cons. Are we open to considering making adjustments to this? Of course we are, if we believe it’s what’s best for the game and for the majority of the players.

the 99million topics on siege messages are pretty clear. Get rid of "22 hour to blablabla siege"....

gtanner
08-06-2010, 14:38
Now THIS is a spotlight, mobs attacking cities would be great fun!

Would like to know about how certain mobs level up?

My stance on fizzles is that hmm they are ok but never if you can get 3-4 in a row, specially if they are transfer spells, since those spells are meant to ignore encumberance more so than others.

Great update, look forward to hearing more.

Abaratican
08-06-2010, 14:39
Sorry, but here i'm not agree with you. Death for excessive falling damage remove the BUNNY HOPPING from the game. BUNNY HOPPING is a broken game mechanic that allow pkers to escape a battle or walk more fast than a mount. Is a immersion breaker for me.

Who cares about your "immersion"? It's FUN, and it takes SKILL to execute, and you take damage doing it making it risk vs reward.

There's nothing broken about it. Taking skillful elements of play out is a horrible suggestion.

wartywarlock
08-06-2010, 14:40
Thanks.

Now do this once a month and each week a review of forum skimming.

Taylor999
08-06-2010, 14:42
Excellent follow up , made a massive difference for me

Niburu
08-06-2010, 14:46
40) Will you ever remove the siege / political change global system messages? - Zig Zag, Lux Arcana

No we happen to like the messages. Why do you want them removed?

Because it removes player interaction, makes player given inforamtion more important and add's more to the player communication with each other. Also it makes the game more regional



54) Are there currently any plans for alternative methods of travel on land, specifically in the forms of stage coaches or chariots? - Rigan Peer, Nomads

No plans currently but we’re considering adding a portal system.

wow more portals for instant travel. ofc could be good with a good regional/local banksystem. Why not make streets usefull for fast travel ? i miss the early days when you actually had ranom encounters in the wild between several traveling people. With a good public message system ( chat bubbles) this would add more sociallizing



if i want to play an instant shooter i play other games but i aspect a player driven WORLD where things need player itneraction to happen and this interaction is not killing the other one everytime

Wizmac
08-06-2010, 14:50
yay darkfall is saved !

MortalZero
08-06-2010, 14:57
Some people mention that Syncaine’s recent posts about his visit to Aventurine are more informative than the community QA. A part of it was because through the interaction with us he was able to ask the right questions.

First thanks for the communication and follow up. yes we might have been too harsh on the Darkfall Team and the and the Q&A. Yes we don't know how much work get into this but we believe you now it is much. But how we should know if there is litle to no communication about info or direction.

However i want to point out that again you make mistakes although with this post your intention on giving honest information is more clear then ever.
evil minds for example can take this quote and interpret it as "yea we brainwashed Syncaine and of course then he asked the question we wanted to hear and answer".




When we post something about upcoming features publicly, anything, it gets multiple authorizations before it goes out and there’s nothing informal about it.


Thats part of the communication problem, communication isn't always PR ready material of sorta patch notes in stone that could hunt you if not being implemented. Its opinions , background , why's and why not for the community to understand the process and the decision taken so we then undertsand why things arnn't good for being in game.



The rest of the Post is good information also with good details. But also missing the answer to the direction. Everything evolves around PvP. Is this game towards the big quake arena or this heading towards a sandbox game with niches for different playstyles.
On the Athens digital week live event while demonstrating the game and Kjetil running toward some enemy's a scene most of us have seen the first time back then, you joked along the lines "there is nothing in Darkfall that can't be solved with a bit of violance" and added something "but of course its all choice and options". Unfortunately in today's Darkfall it tuned out there is everything solved with use of violance and it lacks the sandbox aspects to do something different. For example be a farmer and grow crops, design your house, write a book and general there is a bit of complexity missing in the part of why using everytime violance.
All your answers indicate "we want quick and instant PvP", causeof that portals and global announcements on sieges etc... is it that way Darkfall is heading ?
Can you please make a spotlight about these and where is Darkfall heading regarding this and the sandbox nature of the game ?

melipone
08-06-2010, 15:03
Good post Tasos. Part of the problem is a lack of trust from players, and some of the answers in the q&a looked too evasive or vague. It looks dishonest or like theres something to hide. As I said this OP looked good tho

Anyway I don't see a mention of sandbox stuff on there, just thought I'd put a list of sandbox elements and why some ways their implementation into DF may not be what the players are after, and maybe why AV "aren't feeling the love" with Funhulks/Use Flags. The main issue is the current systems in DF aren't sandboxy enough.

First off, something is sandboxy to me if it either influences other players or the environment. Realistic choices the players can make (not all necessarily predetermined by the devs), each with a different consequence on either other player's gameplay or their interaction with the player OR has a physical effect visible to other players.

Things in DF that feel sandboxy to me:

Sieges. You can choose which city to attack and has a huge impact on the rest of the players + The way you assault the city is up to the player etc

Crafting. Putting your name on a crafted item, making stuff for other players to use etc. Loads of player choice with different resources and crafting options. Not all are useful in the economy however

Skill system..well this is sandboxy in that theres lots of player choice, but until recently there were no consequences for choices at all. A simple cap would have been the best thing but I'm not going into that now

Strongboxes/those placeable cooking fires. Choices that impact other players. Good stuff, but I don't know if those cooking areas get used much but the choice is there (assuming they're worth the cost/ effort involved)

Things that don't feel sandboxy but are in other games like UO or Eve Online:

Alignment. Simply put, choices you make in terms of who you attack has very little consequence for yourself or other players. Incredibly easy to "farm" alignment back up in an artificial way. This is an immersion breaker (people yo-yoing from murderer to blue) and it doesn't feel like a sandbox feature. It might as well not be there at all in its current state. Whether you lose or gain alignment feels very random in PVP as every group is a mixture of all races. Again it feels artificial and devoid of tangible consequences. In UO there was a clear separation between PK and normal player. PK's were just another player type, with big rewards that came with high risk. Idealy DF needs choices that result in players being one or more types of role in the world (not a forced role change..but for the time being you would be that role). Crafter, murderer, treasure hunter, thief, resource gatherer, trader, mercenary (hired to help protect traders from bandits as they move gear through the world etc). Players have choices in DF, but no consequences for them, and very little interaction needed between each player role.

Economy & Trade. Very little influence on other players or the environment. People are either self sufficient or go to their clan/alliance for items. No real world or local economy. Another issue is a lack of reason for people to use neutral towns (safer areas). This is a much deeper issue than the couple lines I can put and theres much better info from people who understand it more than me in the support area.

Housing. Very little player choice with consequences here. Its all predetermined and nothing a player chooses to do with their house impacts other players or the environment. You can't customise with your own choices. The only thing sandboxy is that a players name is shown as the owner. Contrasted with UO, you could choose the type of house to place and its location, and items placed in specific positions by the players. People could visit the house and see everything as it was placed with limitless combinations. Total player choice with a large impact on the environment

Poisoning/trap making/thieving. In UO NPC towns were centres of neutral activity, and there was an active group taking advantage of this footfall in their own ways. You could trick players into setting off traps, which could poison them or set off an explosion to kill them or just distract them while you steal some items. These skills (tinkering/poisioning) were sandbox as there was loads of player choice each with consequences. You could go fishing, poison the food and try to sell it etc.

Persistent world. DF doesn't really have much info saved from one day to another, and you can't really put anything into the world besides cities or houses (all pre-determined spots).

Character appearance. I know there is some info about new changes here, but right now theres no real player choice with an impact of other players or the environment.

Ways to make money or advance your character. This is pretty much 100% mob killing. You can choose the mob but thats it. Other money making ventures just don't compete really, and you can only skill up by doing repetitive actions on AI, or macroing (not even playing the game)

Funhulks & Use Flags have lots of player choice involved, so I do think they will be sandboxy but I feel there are other sandbox things that stand out to players more, especially since there are elements in DF that simply need tweaking/revamping. New sandbox elements will be very welcome like these, but I don't know if they will also fit into the world in even a semi-realistic way.

TLDR; Give players more realistic freedom and ensure theres consequences that impact other players or the environment. Then you will feel the love AV

L0FT
08-06-2010, 15:04
Great feedback AV!
Thx. :)

thereishope
08-06-2010, 15:06
I think all of us can agree that this game is THE BEST and ONLY mmo worth playing currently, so thank you.


Great Post.

Tacos you have to understand, this is your indie game as much as it is ours in my opinion, so when we support your little game that could, we want to be involved in the process, not kept out in the cold and given one word sentence vague responses once a month.

Involve us in the process and growth of the game, good or bad.


Thanks again Tacos.

MortalZero
08-06-2010, 15:08
I think all of us can agree that this game is THE BEST and ONLY mmo worth playing currently, so thank you.


Great Post.

Tacos you have to understand, this is your indie game as much as it is ours in my opinion, so when we support your little game that could, we want to be involved in the process, not kept out in the cold and given one word sentence vague responses once a month.

Involve us in the process and growth of the game, good or bad.


Thanks again Tacos.

Lol way to show respect by misspell the name :lmao:

Thes
08-06-2010, 15:08
I love the way you deleted my post and let only the "good answers" fill your Spotlights...

Elmi
08-06-2010, 15:09
Thank you. Great follow-up.
I wish there was smaller content updates, like once per month, though.

Elmi
08-06-2010, 15:10
I love the way you deleted my post and let only the "good answers" fill your Spotlights...

Learn to post negative messages in a constructive and respectfull manner?

Teucrus
08-06-2010, 15:12
Learn to post negative messages in a constructive and respectfull manner?

This...

Non constructive criticism and negativity will be removed. You can be negative as long as you offer valid points for discussion.

Rokstarr
08-06-2010, 15:15
This info is 100 times better that original answers.

Signed.

Rokstarr
08-06-2010, 15:16
What is this though?

"A portal system is being evaluated to make sure that it will be good for the game. "

Zeraphine
08-06-2010, 15:17
Great ^^

"Mobs attacking Citys" = No more Macroer in Player Citys ? I hope it is random, and they will kill all AFK player and Macroer ^^

Rokstarr
08-06-2010, 15:19
Great ^^

"Mobs attacking Citys" = No more Macroer in Player Citys ? I hope it is random, and they will kill all AFK player and Macroer ^^

Hopefully they do asset damage, so people have to defend their empty holdings. It'd be hilarious if they could turn the holding neutral over an extended period of inactivity in it.

Chris Windblade
08-06-2010, 15:20
Tasos Thank you for this.

I repent.

In reguard to you bustin your asses that much we know and apreacit in so many ways. We see that in all the work that is done.

Your sas in your tone is proof enough to me you do care and this is the inf we needed.

Thanks again.

Mandatory
08-06-2010, 15:22
Awesome post with a lot of great info!

Liquid20
08-06-2010, 15:22
Great post AV, thank you for taking the time to elaborate more. A great move on your part. I for one can't wait for the next spotlight.. Also, big thanks to paragus for making this spotlight possible;)

Mifun
08-06-2010, 15:25
Archers are getting new weapon types and ammo types and they’re also getting secondary skills in connection to prestige classes. I didn’t think we needed to explain this statement, but in retrospect we should have put more emphasis on “new weapon types” and “new ammo types”. And to explain even further: right now archers have just one weapon type: the bow, and one ammo type: the arrow.

WTB arquebus/musket.

Zeraphine
08-06-2010, 15:26
Hopefully they do asset damage, so people have to defend their empty holdings. It'd be hilarious if they could turn the holding neutral over an extended period of inactivity in it.

This! I hope it too, citys are at the moment very empty and 10 player clans are holding them.

Lashiec9
08-06-2010, 15:33
Quality post :) I laughed a fair bit at some of the lines in this. Especially the one about the new ammo types on arrows :)

Keep up the good work AV. This is why Darkfall and AV will always have a place in my heart as a game dev who gives about gameplay not mass appeal.

DeManiac
08-06-2010, 15:37
Just a small suggestion, how about actually releasing some of the working features that the expansion going to get as standalone patches (like you did with strongbox)?
I mean, like the mounts for instance (unless that is the major feature that failed during testing), people would be happy with small amounts of new additions every now and then. Instead of waiting for 9 features cause the last one got some issues. The 9 alone is good enough for the expansion (at least when the waitingtime and delays have been going on for so long) and then you can add the tenth in a patch later on.
Cause I am pretty sure you know about some things taht WILL be in the expansion. And don't tell me mount + terrain alone is what is planned for this expansion..?


There are things that can be and things that cannot be added on the fly.
I agree with you that Mounts, if they were simply models.

Now they have different mechanics, like runing faster then the other, an addition to the crafting interface has to be done, and depending on how the server loads the mount additions might be required there.

Had it been that the mount you created had one out of 3 random models and were one out of 3 different sizes, small, medium, large. And the only thing it would have to do was include another number in the crafting and send process when summoning the mount, there would be a much faster delivery time.


Had there been the models to Races, it could have been added directly as it was changed, only replace the model.
However, do you see this done to World of Warcraft which is the most founded of these types of games.
No they add their improved Models either in their Major Dungeon patches or in their Expansions, they haven't even remade the starting races models over 6 years. They "want to do it". And unlike AV they have loads of people that are able and they also have the money to hire someone to do it fulltime if they wanted.


Adding things to Chaos Chests is simple, requires no changes to interfaces part of an icon and a function to summon(which would be an already existing mechanic with just a different ID number)
rest of it can be done server side, which they have access to fulltime.
Who knows, we don't know what other hidden features they have on the server not yet accessible for us. Things can be added there without our knowledge all we need is a way to send the right package to the server.





Now, the possible additions to Water and sea warfare sounded awesum, I'm no sailor in real life but I know how it works and by the sound if it you got the things moving in the right direction, makes the otherwise dull sailing process allot more about skill predicting moving waves from the sides and knowing that you can catch up to someone fast but escape is allot harder, or the opposite.




Archer mention yesterday got me thinking about what types of ammunition your including and about the mechanic in how ammo is chosen.

And here comes my "suggestion" or "feedback".

As is, you place ammo over another stack to fill it up, or you can split it to smaller stacks, however if you try to override it by hitting a different stack it doesn't add to the current, it swaps it out.

It's easy to split, so no need to have a double click or "equip" replace the stacks with eachother. When you can drag or just click them with no effect there should be no need for replace if the type is the same.


Also with the addition of new ammo types, will you have different skills require certain ammo or could you have the ammo totally change the way each "skill" works?


Now I'm maybe all out in deep water but would the ammo differentiation include other then Piercing, Broad and Balanced.
Like grappling, lit and maybe enhanced?
And would the wrong "ammunition" simply not work or work with nearly no effect?


I'm thinking, when hearing other weapons part of bow, Crossbow and Longbow maybe even partially stationary ones which reduce your movementspeed but have slight Balista functions to them.


Using other then Broad arrows with a crossbow would break the arrows with a snapping sound launching nothing but splinters.
Using Balanced arrows against people wearing metalarmor above chainmail would break the arrows.
Or other then Broad with those using Plate+.


Those are my thoughts.

Paragus
08-06-2010, 15:37
Hopefully they do asset damage, so people have to defend their empty holdings.

I think the best way to reach this goal is to allow multiple holdings owned by the same clan able to be sieged at the same time instead of only one as it is now. The current system allows a clan to defend 1 holding just as easy as 10 because only one can ever be in danger at a time. If this were changed then it would allow big empire clans holding empty cities vulnerable to being ganged up on and force them to pick and choose which holding they want to defend in a massive coordinated attack.

Think back to World War 1 on EU where King Manus had all those holdings under his influence. The only way he was able to be brought down to size was the fact that his empire would have upwards of six of their holdings under siege on a given weekend. The only reason why this was possible is because each holding was owned by a different clan. Now in this era, we have single clans holding a lot of real estate. This means no matter what or where you siege, they can make sure to have their entire army show up at every battle.

Just my 2 cents ;)

Krag
08-06-2010, 15:39
Thank you Tasos.

The players currently in DF really love this game (even if they cry a lot it's cuz they care), players have been very patient but would like to be kept in the loop while they wait for these major expansions. There is a saying that "confusion breeds contempt", and a lot of the players' insults towards AV stem from the fact that we have been mostly in the dark these past 8 months on the details of these projects. The little info that has come out tends to be vague or interesting but non-essential content (fun hulks), being teased by an ambigious expansion that keeps getting delayed isn't helpful either.

Sharing the details of what is in the works and what we can expect to see in the next 1-6 months goes a long way to re-assure the playerbase that there are very solid upgrades coming to Darkfall. Your long post was a much better format for that then the Q&A (not say Q&A isn't a good idea, but a more structured presentation was needed).

Krag
08-06-2010, 15:40
What is this though?

"A portal system is being evaluated to make sure that it will be good for the game. "

Prolly like moongates in UO.

Rokstarr
08-06-2010, 15:43
I think the best way to reach this goal is to allow multiple holdings owned by the same clan able to be sieged at the same time instead of only one as it is now. The current system allows a clan to defend 1 holding just as easy as 10 because only one can ever be in danger at a time. If this were changed then it would allow big empire clans holding empty cities vulnerable to being ganged up on and force them to pick and choose which holding they want to defend in a massive coordinated attack.

Think back to World War 1 on EU where King Manus had all those holdings under his influence. The only way he was able to be brought down to size was the fact that his empire would have upwards of six of their holdings under siege on a given weekend. The only reason why this was possible is because each holding was owned by a different clan. Now in this era, we have single clans holding a lot of real estate. This means no matter what or where you siege, they can make sure to have their entire army show up at every battle.

Just my 2 cents ;)


Oh I agree completely, and advocate for multi-holding sieges.

Keno
08-06-2010, 15:46
I think the best way to reach this goal is to allow multiple holdings owned by the same clan able to be sieged at the same time instead of only one as it is now. The current system allows a clan to defend 1 holding just as easy as 10 because only one can ever be in danger at a time. If this were changed then it would allow big empire clans holding empty cities vulnerable to being ganged up on and force them to pick and choose which holding they want to defend in a massive coordinated attack.

Think back to World War 1 on EU where King Manus had all those holdings under his influence. The only way he was able to be brought down to size was the fact that his empire would have upwards of six of their holdings under siege on a given weekend. The only reason why this was possible is because each holding was owned by a different clan. Now in this era, we have single clans holding a lot of real estate. This means no matter what or where you siege, they can make sure to have their entire army show up at every battle.

Just my 2 cents ;)

Yupp

Dalris
08-06-2010, 15:49
Ty for clearing it up for the 5 year old cry babys. GJ as always

kdchan
08-06-2010, 15:53
I think the best way to reach this goal is to allow multiple holdings owned by the same clan able to be sieged at the same time instead of only one as it is now. The current system allows a clan to defend 1 holding just as easy as 10 because only one can ever be in danger at a time. If this were changed then it would allow big empire clans holding empty cities vulnerable to being ganged up on and force them to pick and choose which holding they want to defend in a massive coordinated attack.

Think back to World War 1 on EU where King Manus had all those holdings under his influence. The only way he was able to be brought down to size was the fact that his empire would have upwards of six of their holdings under siege on a given weekend. The only reason why this was possible is because each holding was owned by a different clan. Now in this era, we have single clans holding a lot of real estate. This means no matter what or where you siege, they can make sure to have their entire army show up at every battle.

Just my 2 cents ;)

Completely agree, multi-holding siege is a pure win, these clans with 10 empty holdings should be discouraged. In this way more little and indipendent clans can have a town to live.

lkx
08-06-2010, 15:54
Nice follow-up. However it still seems that i'll wait until DF2010 to re-sub (unless the next expansion will deliver before my account expires and it's really worth the wait). I like the promises, but now i want to see something of this happening.
So, i really hope you're right about your parallel developing and this delay won't delay df2010 too much. I know it won't make it within 2010 (if you had so much problems with the new terrain system i can't think about how much problems you could have about what's supposed to be in df2010), but if you're right it could happend within q1 2011. I hope so.

PS: as a side note about falling kill... i understand your point (even if i don't agree with it), but have you ever think about some other side effect like temporary knockdown/slowdown or something like that? Just to remove the feel of being a jumping Hulk...

Swing
08-06-2010, 15:55
A great read indeed.

-fionn-
08-06-2010, 16:03
Very nice. I'm glad you made this post, the forum QQ was going to be unbearable without it.

DirtyharryUK
08-06-2010, 16:05
WTB arquebus/musket.


That would be a big change of tune from when they origanaly said there would be no guns in darkfall..

I would expect a crossbow and bolt.



Anyway


Good post better written than the QA.. I'm expecting greate things to come and its the reason I still play...

JUST add random mob spawns and Ill be happy. Click here for details. (http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=254969)

amah
08-06-2010, 16:09
i have been very critical the past few days .i would like to thank you for your effort .Proper communication does wonders and now you can feel my love :P

Sayton
08-06-2010, 16:09
Very good read. Thanks for taking the time to write it.

Now I'm almost as hyped up for DF2010 as I was before beta. It must be unhealthy. :ohno:

Mordin Zeal
08-06-2010, 16:10
Thanks for the great follow-up! Now we at least got some clear information.

I hope we don't have to wait to long on the new stuff! :)

Funkadoodle
08-06-2010, 16:16
Thank you very, very much. I'm sure that was a monster of a post to type up but that's exactly what we wanted.

You have the disadvantage of developing for the whiniest, most ungrateful demographic of online gamers. Your game has a wonderful foundation and everyone gets all pissy and flustered only because they love the game deep down.

We freak out because we love you. In a fucked up kind of way...

Realbigdeal22
08-06-2010, 16:21
Concerning the global messaging system, we like that players can know in real-time what’s going on in the world. We like that there’s risk in making certain decisions. There are drawbacks to be sure but in our pros and cons list, the pros outweigh the cons. Are we open to considering making adjustments to this? Of course we are, if we believe it’s what’s best for the game and for the majority of the players. I still dont like the reason to not remove global message. It only promote zerg and its bad for small scale raiders. We have a forum or even IRC to let players know what is happening already. What i hate the most, is seing players talking to each other over global chat when they can use public chat instead. IT simply kill the world immersion.



About player deaths to falling damage, we don’t like it and we’ve tested this a lot. Players in early beta may recall that you could die to falling, something that we quickly removed. Dying in a full loot game, with a lot of elevation you can access freely, due a misstep or lag, can be extremely annoying. Are you prepared to die to falling damage once every so often and possibly lose everything you’ve got? It’s not like you don’t take falling damage now, and if someone is abusing the system during PvP, it should be easier in most cases for his opponents to kill him than gravity. As with the global messages, nothing is carved in stone but please allow us to have a strong opinion now and again.


We do not ask for fall damage that will get you kill from 400 damage to 0. We only ask for increase falling damage and death instead of 1 hp left.

OldPlayer
08-06-2010, 16:22
Before I get going, I just want to clarify that I work with several big clients in a service industry and I want to offer Aventurine some constructive criticism and even help in regards to how they are handling their business.

Please consider this some free consulting.

I am doing this "pro-bono" if you will.



I decided to post this followup because we felt that our answers in the recent Q&A (http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/Paragus1/082010/6540_Darkfall-Community-QA-with-Aventurine-2) failed to register and our intentions seemed to be misunderstood by a segment of the community.

This was a good opening sentence. You stated your purpose with obvious intent and set an overall diplomatic and acceptable "mood" for your upcoming body paragraphs.

The problem we faced with the questions asked is that they were mostly about topics we cannot discuss yet and that’s why it took us a while to deliver it. Rather than to not respond or to avoid answering most of them, we decided out of respect for the community to address every single question as best as we could. Some people mention that Syncaine’s recent posts about his visit to Aventurine are more informative than the community QA. A part of it was because through the interaction with us he was able to ask the right questions.

An often made and understable mistake when dealing with a client, especially where deadlines are involved, is the misconception that it is better to provide something rather than state that you do not or can not provide expected or desired results. Aventurine wanted to make their client base happy, but they were not able to do so. The right decision would have been to clearly state in the beginning that some questions can not and will not be answered. Because this was not done, you appeared disingenuous to your clients. Any time you are speaking with a customer it is far better to be honest than disingenuous, or to say something that the customer will consider disingenuous.

Before I go into the content within the Q&A, I have to explain that when we say that we’re looking into something, or considering, or have plans for, it doesn’t mean that we’re being evasive or diplomatic in our answers. If that was our intention, we simply wouldn’t answer. It means that we’re trying to give you actual insight or confirmation on what we can’t go into detail about. These statements are supported by a sequence of events that has taken place at Aventurine involving a number of Darkfall developers doing real work, a lot of planning and meetings taking place, infrastructure being designed and implemented, testing, documentation, community feedback taken into consideration, player feedback, support tickets, bug reports etc. depending on what we’re talking about. There’s a professional pipeline in place. Even when we say there are no plans for something, like an alliance bank for example, the process has still run its course and we’ve decided against it.

When we post something about upcoming features publicly, anything, it gets multiple authorizations before it goes out and there’s nothing informal about it. The specific QA replies were collaboration between Claus Grovdal, and Kjetil Helland and myself. There’s real information in the Q&A and a lot more insight to be found than skimming quickly through it might reveal:

This is a very good explanation that should have accompanied the origional Q&A response. The fact that you are presenting it now is a good show of what we call, "damage control" in the industry and is a sign of growth on your part. If you remember to stick to this sort of honesty in the future you will do much better when it comes to building a trusting relationship with your clients.

Darkfall’s expansion was delayed due to a testing failure in a major feature we decided to add to it. There was an announcement about this and our newest estimate is one month with an effort to make it sooner. This won’t delay further development and on that topic, we are running parallel development of Darkfall and Darkfall 2010. This means that there are two different development efforts going on at the moment. We regret that the expansion was delayed repeatedly, but it’s only because we’re trying to deliver more than expected.

We mention that we’ve added new designers to the team to help the design team test and evaluate the balance of literally everything in the game and make all the necessary changes, improvements, and adjustments needed. This means everything: skills, spells, items, damage output, loot tables, various mechanics etc. Imagine how the results from this effort can impact the game, add to it that your feedback is very important in this process and you should be able to understand better what we’re trying to do here.

These are all very good facts about your company but you are getting away from your origional stated purpose for this address to your clients. When you begin to get off your main talking points it can be misconstrued as an attempt to divert the attention of your client. In a situation where your client already feels that you have been less than truthful with them, or treated them as though they lack intelligence, (which your client does in this case) the worst thing you can do is make them feel as though you are attempting to divert their attention from your origional talking points.

Plainly, sometimes though you feel the need to talk more, it isnt always the best policy. Stick to your origional mission statement for the full duration of your address to your client.

Think of it as a politician who will use his first sentence to touch on a question or subject, and then divert instantly back to his coached talking points. An intelligent audience will catch this shift and know they are getting the run around. Your client in this case is a very intelligent audience, as you can see from their replies to your origional Q&A response.

Prestige classes are the largest feature ever added to Darkfall and will definitely change the face of the game. The final design for them is complete. From here we go to the technical design, implementation, testing, evaluation, more testing etc. Sounds like this will take forever but it won’t. The functionality is all there. We cannot announce how many prestige classes there will be when they’re released because everything is subject to change from names, to skills, spells, requirements, and some may not even make it out of testing. There will be, however, a good variation of them offered at release and we’ll keep adding new ones. Prestige classes will be getting a full presentation of their own before long. Until then, a lot of people at Aventurine, even some of the developers don’t know more than you do right now.

This is what we refer to as the "dazzle". The dazzle is what you use on a client when you have successfuly got their attention away from your origional talking points, (which was discussed above) and you want to further pull them into wanting to hear what you have to say.

Its akin to distracting a small child with a toy so that they forget they just got a spanking. "You were unhappy with me a moment ago, but, you should forget about that, and focus instead on this shiny treasure I can tempt you with."

While it is tempting to use "the dazzle", when you are working with a client who is not a toddler, it often is not a good way to go. An intelligent client will discern your intent immediately and take a defensive stance on anything you have to stay from that point forward.

It would have been best to cover your "dazzle" points in an entirely different post.

Now, on to the actual content of your "dazzle". Again, if you do not have any actual information that your client will find of value, something substantial, it may be best to not say anything at all. The worst thing you can do is say something like this;

"The final design for them is complete. From here we go to the technical design, implementation, testing, evaluation, more testing etc. Sounds like this will take forever but it won’t. The functionality is all there. We cannot announce how many prestige classes there will be when they’re released because everything is subject to change from names, to skills, spells, requirements, and some may not even make it out of testing."

You do not want to make it seem as though you believe your client to lack intelligence. Think of it this way. If you tell someone;

"I have a secret. I'm not going to tell you the secret though. Only I can know it. You wouldnt understand it anyways."

Though you may not intend to come off this way. This is how your client feels.

If you have a lot of potential details in place. Give those details to your client and include a disclaimer like you have above. "This may not make it in, but here is what we are working on."

Do not say, "This may not make it in, but we are working on some stuff, but we arent going to give you the details."

Sometimes more is less, and less is more. Figguring out when and where to put in more, and put in less, is a key to satisfying your customers.

Getting a Darkfall box out is underway and Darkfall is available now through most digital download channels and we’re in talks to get it on more of them. Each one of these initiatives in terms of effort is like a commercial re-launch of the game and requires a lot of work by a lot of people in many areas and a lot of coordination of several companies around the world.

Good.

Several new spells and alignment changes to the way you gain or lose alignment are on their way. These are generally considered important additions to a game. We also mention in the QA that we’ll reward mages for being mages and not simply through removing fizzle from spells. This is and should be big news for mages.

This would be big news for mages if you actually gave your client any information. Using the "dazzle", "We have this nifty shiny thing", but then not giving any details that you say you have, "But we arent going to tell you our secret" makes your client feel like you believe you are superior to them.

Sometimes more is less.

Villages and Sea Fortresses are getting more improvements. Recent improvements to Sea Fortresses were major additions to the game based on community feedback and suggestions, and future improvements to villages are as well. For example, we’ve already mentioned in a recent interview that players who cap a village will split the reward between themselves and the clan, and there’s more. We’ve also taken the community feedback on the Sea Fortress timing issue and we’re looking into it. We also confirm that new villages and housing slots will be made available.

Good. You stated actual ideas that you are working on, gave direct details about those ideas, and moved forward. You may not have actual results to provide, but, your have provided your client with a sense of accomplishment inspite of that. This is a great example of providing your client with information that makes them feel as though you respect their intelligence.

We mentioned that we’re adding more PvP centric additions on land other than the villages and this brief mention hides significant features we cannot discuss yet, but the fact we can’t expand on these doesn’t mean they aren’t coming.

The fact you refuse to expand on these ideas but mention them anyways makes it appear to your client that you believe they lack the ability to comprehend or accept your ideas for what they are, "ideas".

Your client base understands the concept of what an "idea" is and what a "finished product" is. This is a basic concept school children can and do grasp.

You need to consider these things before you speak to your clients. If you have nothing substantial to provide, actual factual details regarding an "idea" or a "finished product" it is best to not mention that idea or finished product.

Darkfall’s user interface is being remade. This means we’re throwing away the old interface and a brand new one is being designed and coded from scratch. An interface for a game like Darkfall can take years to make, it’s a major development effort. We’ve been working on it for a long time now and everything we’ve learned so far is going into this, including a lot of your feedback. We believe that it will greatly improve the user experience.

Good. "We have this idea. It is in production." You did not say, "The details regarding the interface cant be discussed right now." You simply stated that you have a large scope project going right now and you moved on.

You really need to avoid stating "We think or know something, but we arent going to tell you."

That is the biggest downfall I have seen with Aventurine's communication with their customers.

We’re actively working on differentiating the races and this is a large ongoing project within Aventurine. We’re working on making races more unique and enhancing the racial element of the game; there’s consistency in the work being done in this area. It’s a balancing act but we feel that a pronounced racial element will greatly enhance the game and we hope that you agree. Someone posted that the question was simply asking if we’ll offer a race change option, in which case, we’ve already announced that we will. The Mahirim 4 legged run, mentioned in the Q&A, is still alive. As far as functionality it’s complete down to the final animations. We hope to be able to use this as soon as all races have something equally as cool and useful. It won’t be easy, and it’s a process, but whether we succeed or not, the last statement should give you an idea of how much there is in store as far as racial differentiation goes.

Good job. You have ideas and projects under way. You stated what those ideas and projects are, gave details regarding the finished results you do have available, and moved on. Sometimes more is more. You hit the nail on the head here.

As a side note, if you had actual details and confirmation regarding "the race change question" why wasnt it said in the origional Q&A? Your origional answer to this question in the Q&A was much more dodgey and incomplete. You need to avoid that sort of answering method, especially when your clients could refer back to when you say you origionally stated you would provide racial changes.

Imagine someone reading the Q&A and seeing, "This is a possible." when they know you have said in the past that it is going to be offered. Then you make your clients feel like you are changing your minds about something you said you knew for sure. You came off as evasive and dishonest not only to the people who didnt know you already planned to offer a racial change, but also to the people who already knew you said you would be offering a racial change. Simply stating, "Yes, we have already said we will offer a racial change." Would have got you so much further with your clients.

We mentioned that waves may be added to the sea. This may not sound like much on its own unless you take into account the tactics behind it. Add the possibility of weather impact on sailing a ship and the dynamic changes completely. Imagine yourself in a naval battle behind a cannon in a stormy sea bobbing up and down as your captain is having a hard time steering into the wind as he’s fighting to get positioning on your enemies. We’ve taken a lot of steps towards improving the naval element, and we’ll keep supporting that..

Good.

Archers are getting new weapon types and ammo types and they’re also getting secondary skills in connection to prestige classes. I didn’t think we needed to explain this statement, but in retrospect we should have put more emphasis on “new weapon types” and “new ammo types”. And to explain even further: right now archers have just one weapon type: the bow, and one ammo type: the arrow.

Good.

Concerning the global messaging system, we like that players can know in real-time what’s going on in the world. We like that there’s risk in making certain decisions. There are drawbacks to be sure but in our pros and cons list, the pros outweigh the cons. Are we open to considering making adjustments to this? Of course we are, if we believe it’s what’s best for the game and for the majority of the players.

Very well stated. You took a concrete stand point, explained why you are taking that stand point, and moved on. Your client will not have faith in you if they do not feel that you do not know where you stand. They may not necessarily like where you stand, but, you cant please everyone and do your job all of the time.

About player deaths to falling damage, we don’t like it and we’ve tested this a lot. Players in early beta may recall that you could die to falling, something that we quickly removed. Dying in a full loot game, with a lot of elevation you can access freely, due a misstep or lag, can be extremely annoying. Are you prepared to die to falling damage once every so often and possibly lose everything you’ve got? It’s not like you don’t take falling damage now, and if someone is abusing the system during PvP, it should be easier in most cases for his opponents to kill him than gravity. As with the global messages, nothing is carved in stone but please allow us to have a strong opinion now and again.

You took a concrete stand on the issue of falling damage. Good. Why did you feel the need to half-way lose your concrete stand on global messages? Sometimes more is less.

We’re rolling out a political map and several other clan tools. We also have several plans for additions to clan cities and we’re working on implementing various types of clan insignia. What’s behind the previous statement should be pretty big news for clans.

If you have several plan for additional clan cities you should explain what those plans are or not mention them at all. You make your client feel as though you believe they will not be able to handle the concepts or ideas you already have ironed out. Sometimes more is less.

If you have an idea regarding the product you are trying to sell to your customer, you should give your customer your views on that idea or not mention that idea at all.

"We think we might change the flavor of our soda. We are pretty sure what we want to change it to. But, you should keep investing in our soda company even though we arent going to tell you what we think the new flavor will be."

See how that works?

We announced that we’re working in the direction of mobs leveling up, and mobs attacking player cities. We didn’t mention this in the Q&A but this should be in the next expansion plus a lot more as far as PvE goes. We’re mentioning it now because it was confirmed to me today.

Good job. You got confirmation regarding an idea and gave that information to your clients. Things like this will get you a LONG way with building a mutual respectful relationship with your clients.

There was a whole feature about the ambient sound system which should be one of the best in MMOs and that’s why we didn’t go into detail about it, however the feature itself and the supporting video were inspired by the Q&A question.

Good. We feel our answer was adequate, and this is why. Very good. If your client believes it was adequate or not is up for debate, but now you have explained to them why you felt your answer was adequate.

We’re moving towards more end-game PvE content with the total dungeon revamp. Again this is a huge undertaking in several stages and a big change to the game. We also stated that we’re adding new dungeons.

Good.

A portal system is being evaluated to make sure that it will be good for the game.

Good.

We confirmed that we’re working on more character customizations like dyes. We also restated our strong commitment to boost crafting with significant additions to the game along the lines of the recently announced addition of rare ores to metal nodes, and adding a very large number of craftable-only items.

You did state this, and this was good. The problem was you stated this in the origional Q&A as an answer to a question that was never asked. The origional question that was asked was never answered. The complaint was not about the content you have mentioned here. The complaint was that this content was used to answer a question that your client did not feel this adequately answered.

It would have been better to say, "We do not know at this time."

Instead your client felt that you were distracting them with a different talking point on purpose.

This may not have been your intention, but this is how your client felt.

Keep in mind that all this is running concurrently in different stages in the pipeline. These are not long-term plans. Consider that there’s a lot more in the pipeline than what we’ve talked about here, things that we haven’t announced yet. This is not a wish-list; these are things we’re putting a lot of work into as we speak.

Perhaps we could have spelled things out more in the Q&A, but consider that we’re working very hard at the moment, we’re also missing a few people who are taking their vacations, and we don’t feel comfortable at all going into details before it’s time. As for the timing, we’re busting our asses to get these things done right as soon as possible and that’s the best I can give you outside of what you already know. This Q&A mostly touched on to-be-announced items. There will be proper announcements and spotlight features on everything as they become ready.

Thank you for reading

Good closing statement for the most part.


Aventurine is a great third party game developer that has produced what is in my opinion the most promising piece of work in the MMO community to date.

Where Darkfall is going is very exciting not only for myself as a player but for me as someone who appreciates watching a small business grow.

The biggest downfall Aventurine has had is its communication to date with its clients.

Aventurine has so many great ideas and I hope that my post will convince them to better communicate those ideas with their clients so that we can all appreciate the great work that they are doing and share in the excitement of the development process.

Aventurine may own this game, but it is a product they are selling to investors. We as a community invest in this game because in a lot of ways this is not a finished product, and that can be said for any MMO. But, Darkfall is a cutting edge concept and that makes it more of a "development" than a finished product than any other MMO on the market currently.

We are Aventurine's investors and we are here for what we want to see Darkfall become, not necessarily for what it is currently.

This is why this our community is so concerned with where Darkfall is going and not necessarily where it is at right now. We all agree there are a lot of flaws but we stick around anyways because we think Aventurine is a good company that is going places.

We just want a bit better communication about the ideas regarding where our investment is going.

Holio
08-06-2010, 16:23
Lets all give tasos a round of applause. He finally "got it" when it comes to speaking publicly with the player base. Congrats Tasos, I am finally proud of you. We know your working hard, but that doesn't justify leaving your playerbase in the dark. Not only is that rude, its downright disrepectful. I hope you really understand now. Good post, tenfold better than the Q&A.

TheVillageIdiot
08-06-2010, 16:24
I prefer development teams which constantly tell us about their 'vision' with no clue about how the implementation will be accomplished.
/sarcasm off

Seriously, great update.

Although you won't ever please everyone you should probably plan on at least a monthly developer spotlight. Outline priorities of the dev team and don't hesitate to repeat yourself (people have short memories).

I am sure you made the right decision by delaying the expac nut lack of updates to the game tend to impact the population over time. Hopefully once the new systems are in place a steady focus on ongoing content updates would certainly be appreciated. Most of us have fond memories of the monthly Asheron's call updates and this should be the model you strive for. Monthly updates do not need to be big but a little fluff now and again keeps the game fresh.

Excellent job. you guys have done more with this game than anyone else in the market. This is despite not having the resources of bigger development teams. You should definitely be proud of what you have accomplished.

peertje
08-06-2010, 16:24
thanks for this, finally some decent communication and your answers being backed up with arguments

Sinny
08-06-2010, 16:28
I'm very glad you took the time to explain your decisions, this is probably the most insightful and meaningful post I've ever seen on here and making things clearer is alot better now this post has been made, in terms of constructive feedback.

I think the Global system message system is still not the way the majority of the community likes it. even though radically changing it may not be best supported by aventurine, it does need some tweaks to improve the way clans deal business involving property.

one very good suggestion would be to remove the text displayed across the screen unless the action is imminent (ie Siege is starting or X declared war on X) .

Also having messages like this regionalised so you only get the message if you are in the zone (Cairn, Ruby, Yssam, Niffleheim & Racial parts across agon).

so that people who are in the area will recieve the message and they can start forming preparations to move in or stay out.

moocat
08-06-2010, 16:31
Thanks for this post, I think it made a lot of people happy, including myself.

Keep up the good work!

Irenor
08-06-2010, 16:32
Looks like all the rage had it's use. Glad to see Developers FINALLY answering in a more proper manner. This follow-up gave us A LOT more information than the Q&A, without going entirely in the details, but that's alright with the community.

Good job, and I might not actually unsub. BUT, it would also be great to have a some updates regarding the Mob issues on NA-1, and possibly close the Free Trials temporarily as it's hurting the game more than helping it at the moment.

Not a single goblin will spawn in Mahirim lands for exemple, a lot of threads by new trial members asking "where are the mobs?"

It has already been 10 days in a row now.

Reckin Crew
08-06-2010, 16:32
nice read :D

Ghias
08-06-2010, 16:34
Way better than the mmorpg post, would make sure that this gets linked into it.

OldPlayer
08-06-2010, 16:34
Lets all give tasos a round of applause. He finally "got it" when it comes to speaking publicly with the player base. Congrats Tasos, I am finally proud of you. We know your working hard, but that doesn't justify leaving your playerbase in the dark. Not only is that rude, its downright disrepectful. I hope you really understand now. Good post, tenfold better than the Q&A.

I will give a round of applause.

I saw a lot of professional growth from Aventurine and Tasos in this update.

Definantly a good round of applause is in order.

droidika
08-06-2010, 16:42
Thank you for this professional Update,

as far as i can remember it is the first of this kind of quality in terms of community management/information wise which is highly appreciated compared to the feedback in the q&a thread

Keep up the good work Tasos / AV

hoping for a fast release on the expansion so people can enjoy the new agon after their holidays/summer quality time.

regards

Balsm
08-06-2010, 16:43
Quite the write up! Everything mentioned will defiently increase the overplay of DFO without a doubt. Id be happy with just an allignment but it would seem we're getting much much more.

Looking forward to patch day!

DAA KAPUTTMACHA
08-06-2010, 16:43
Thank you very much Tasos; your company should thankfull too, since you fought some serious danger for the game off with that follow up.

I repeat: Thank you.


But:



The problem we faced with the questions asked is that they were mostly about topics we cannot discuss yet and that’s why it took us a while to deliver it.

I dont get how it takes 1 1/2 months to make such a lousy Q&A and then it takes you one freakin day to make a follow up that gives 10 times more and better info!?
Sometimes i think you guys are a bit masochistic; piss your community off as much as possible to calm them down again with a great post one or ttwo days later. Why do you do that to yourself!? :ninja:

Torc
08-06-2010, 16:43
Thanks for the extra details. You guys are doing a great job in my opinion. You might miss deadlines but in general I feel the updates you put out are top quality. I would buy some future Aventurine game without a doubt, though I'd like Darkfall to stick around for a long time.

Paragus
08-06-2010, 16:50
Way better than the mmorpg post, would make sure that this gets linked into it.

I already included a link to this post at the end of the write up this morning.

Ruyn
08-06-2010, 16:51
Darkfall for life.

Lord Zeb
08-06-2010, 16:56
Before I get going, I just want to clarify that I work with several big clients in a service industry and I want to offer Aventurine some constructive criticism and even help in regards to how they are handling their business.

Please consider this some free consulting.

I am doing this "pro-bono" if you will.





Aventurine is a great third party game developer that has produced what is in my opinion the most promising piece of work in the MMO community to date.

Where Darkfall is going is very exciting not only for myself as a player but for me as someone who appreciates watching a small business grow.

The biggest downfall Aventurine has had is its communication to date with its clients.

Aventurine has so many great ideas and I hope that my post will convince them to better communicate those ideas with their clients so that we can all appreciate the great work that they are doing and share in the excitement of the development process.

Aventurine may own this game, but it is a product they are selling to investors. We as a community invest in this game because in a lot of ways this is not a finished product, and that can be said for any MMO. But, Darkfall is a cutting edge concept and that makes it more of a "development" than a finished product than any other MMO on the market currently.

We are Aventurine's investors and we are here for what we want to see Darkfall become, not necessarily for what it is currently.

This is why this our community is so concerned with where Darkfall is going and not necessarily where it is at right now. We all agree there are a lot of flaws but we stick around anyways because we think Aventurine is a good company that is going places.

We just want a bit better communication about the ideas regarding where our investment is going.
Greatest post on the thread in my opinion, your comments (that you make without even commenting on your own opinions in the matters discussed) gave great comments of major analytical value.:cool:

Honestly, if I had a company I would hire your consultive services, and I teach this stuff on University level!

Lumanil
08-06-2010, 16:57
How about further improving regionalization and change the global message into a regional message? Like: everyone in the region is able to see the realtime in-game message; regions divided into racial area's, subcontinents and maybe even Central Agon Area overlapping parts of the racial area's.

That's what i thought, after reading the post.
Would be awesome to see the messages only in certain regions.
It would even be a major improvement, if they would quarter Agon and only show messages in the quarter where the action happens.

DrooG
08-06-2010, 16:59
How about further improving regionalization and change the global message into a regional message? Like: everyone in the region is able to see the realtime in-game message; regions divided into racial area's, subcontinents and maybe even Central Agon Area overlapping parts of the racial area's.

I like this idea alot.

Also Tasos this is the best post I have seen. Please keep up the great work and you will have a lot of loyal consumers.

Thank You

JuJu142
08-06-2010, 17:01
Best post from Tasos EVER! I wasn't very happy with the Q&A, but this just blew me away. Awesome job.

Santharix
08-06-2010, 17:01
Thank you for this AV.

I was really disappointed with your responses in the Q/A. This definately got rid of that feeling and impressed me quite a bit.

OldPlayer
08-06-2010, 17:20
Greatest post on the thread in my opinion, your comments (that you make without even commenting on your own opinions in the matters discussed) gave great comments of major analytical value.:cool:

Honestly, if I had a company I would hire your consultive services, and I teach this stuff on University level!

Well thank you.

I have always believed that the biggest danger any company faces is the lack of an unbiased opinion taken into consideration in regards to their business model.

An idea always looks good to the creator of that idea. To be truly successful though, you have to accept that even though you may have a great idea, others will often be able to make it better with their own input, even if that means changing the idea.

MAD-DUKE
08-06-2010, 17:21
Appreciate your time and effort.. My issues.


These are not long-term plans.
Hate to see how long it takes for long-term plans to complete.



we’re also missing a few people who are taking their vacations
Should probably remind us that some people take breaks at work or lunch hours, which drastically effect development time as well.


we are running parallel development of Darkfall and Darkfall 2010. This means that there are two different development efforts going on at the moment.
Strange as I don't see the content in either, I only keep hearing about it. Remember with Euro first launched and we had weekly patches... wtf happened to that? Why can't we have weekly patches and expansions? If we can only have one or the other lets go back to that weekly stuff. Saving all the patches for one big patch that gets pushed off for what seems like forever is just lame. I want to see development now and big development later, I want both ends of the cake.

Vogular
08-06-2010, 17:26
darkfall 2010 will revive old kingdoms raise new one!

Everything sounds amazing; i agree for some smaller pvp event / to do things for clanwise.

and coloring or crafting special clan / group items / alliance armors

foojin
08-06-2010, 17:28
You surely sound very passionate about the game, which i like. I just hope that you don't run out of time.

Das717
08-06-2010, 17:29
I do not comment on these type things, but this sounds pretty good. I got a lot of it from the Q&A, but the thought out detail is nice. I keep in mind most games hot patch little things one at a time then come out with big expansions. This game does revamps with patches according to player feedback and a vision of a high end pvp based game. I got no real complaints, just anxious for more. ^^

Darkfiend#billy
08-06-2010, 17:31
Every time my faith in AV is just starting to waver and succumb to disappointment, you always roll out a post like this one Tasos.

This information is vastly relieving, incredibly exciting, and quite easily the most awesome thing I have read all week.
I appreciate all of the hard work you and the dev team undertake to create such a fantastic online gaming experience, and I'm sure 99% of the community agrees with me! The only people that complain are the ones who grow tired of waiting, and while sometimes they may have a point in regards to the tardiness of Darkfall's projects, the rewards of patience are always rewarded greatly.

With that said, I wish all of your developers vacationing a happy holiday and my best wishes and thanks to your hardworking developer team. You guys rock!

Wyndal
08-06-2010, 17:35
Thanks for the spotlight - nice to read a reasonably straight-forward update.

More of this sort of thing please... Not every day, just not ever 3-4 weeks. :D

MrFrosT
08-06-2010, 17:48
awsome AWSOME post. thanks Tasos.


A lot of light has shined on darkfall on this day.

Banok
08-06-2010, 17:50
This is much better AV. now you need to admit there is a serious population issue at least on EU1...


I was guenuinely shocked that they actually answered my question.



20) Have Aventurine considered a server merge between EU and US servers and situate the server on east coast US or Iceland? - Lord Seph

No we haven’t, we’re actually looking into opening up more servers long-term as population increases through the free trial and other initiatives, like Darkfall digital distribution partner availability, local distributors etc. We’re also speaking with partners in Asia about offering Asian servers as there seems to be strong interest in the game.



with this they also unintentionally answered the other part of my question, does AV acknowledge a population issue? with a massive NO. If they fail to acknowledge darkfalls biggest problem (at least on EU1), how can the game possibly survive.

frogg
08-06-2010, 17:55
About player deaths to falling damage, we don’t like it and we’ve tested this a lot. Players in early beta may recall that you could die to falling, something that we quickly removed. Dying in a full loot game, with a lot of elevation you can access freely, due a misstep or lag, can be extremely annoying. Are you prepared to die to falling damage once every so often and possibly lose everything you’ve got? It’s not like you don’t take falling damage now, and if someone is abusing the system during PvP, it should be easier in most cases for his opponents to kill him than gravity. As with the global messages, nothing is carved in stone but please allow us to have a strong opinion now and again.

I'd much rather die from falling once in a while than to have jumping off a massive cliff be an extremely viable option to escape a fight. Seems sort-of counter-intuitive. Every person who plays this game is always prepared to lose everything they've got. Oh well, it's not one of the biggest issues this game faces no matter how stupid and unbelievable it may be.

Adam1902
08-06-2010, 17:55
Fucking beautiful post!
I do agree with AV's views on fall damage aswell. I don't want every fight on a hill, or in a high up player city just being a knockback war. Fall damage is great as it is.

This was 1000% more informative than the QA. :D

frogg
08-06-2010, 17:58
I'd much rather die from falling once in a while than to have jumping off a massive cliff be an extremely viable option to escape a fight. Seems sort-of counter-intuitive. Every person who plays this game is always prepared to lose everything they've got. Oh well, it's not one of the biggest issues this game faces no matter how stupid and unbelievable it may be.

I also want to add in that in a full-loot game, having people randomly jumping off cliffs to escape a fight actually cuts down on the loot you might have gained from PVP. Just because you lose loot from it doesn't mean you won't also gain loot from it.

Just makes me think of watching cairnies jumping off calfardar like lemmings after a server-wide assault. They got to keep a lot of gear due to that.

TheVillageIdiot
08-06-2010, 18:00
okay,

...now THIS is fucking feedback.
god damnit AV - do this MORE MORE MORE MORE MORE.

(see, constructive)

i have but one question remaining, and it's the same one i keep asking and repeating:

WHEN.

see, we've seen one "moderate" update to the game since the release of the Cts expansion, some 8 months ago, and a few minor ones.

we all know, that nearly 99% of hte things you introduce to the game are "awesome". the biggest, and MAJOR problem is lack of concrete feedback (like this post) and the fact that there are repeated, extensive and constant delays.


see. we like knowing whats coming.
problem: we actally WANT it. yesterday.

and i think we can all agree, sure, a delay of a few weeks - we can live with.
a delay of 3 months - thats gets harder to swallow.

TALKING about stuff is NOT more important than implementing it.

Quit being a spoiled brat

frogg
08-06-2010, 18:01
Fucking beautiful post!
I do agree with AV's views on fall damage aswell. I don't want every fight on a hill, or in a high up player city just being a knockback war. Fall damage is great as it is.

This was 1000% more informative than the QA. :D

Yeah its way better having every fight on a high-up city being: jump off the tallest cliff when your right about to die. :rolleyes:

Adûn_East
08-06-2010, 18:03
Very good post and a necessary one. I'm sure many people, myself included, appreciate the detail you went into, and I hope this kind of communication is kept up, even outside of the times you are doing 'damage control'. Good communication only ever strengthens a game and it's community because when people are reassured they are willing to stick around based on hope for the game's future alone.

A few things though that I didn't really see in the Q&A or in the post that I wanted to bring up and in my opinion are pretty significant to the game, because every time I try to bring in friends or acquaintances from other games or RL who play mmos, this is what I often hear back from:


The emphasis on magic for end-game character development. When archery and melee have a single skill to either name, (rage and the disabling skills, the latter utilized by everyone) all character development eventually rests on leveling your magic as high as possible, from individual spells, to maxing the schools, to intensifies, to intelligence, to archmage levels, to mana conservation, and so on. Magic is a heavy laden requirement even as a supplement to non-magic playstyles. Many players I've spoken with who wanted to be an "Archer" in Darkfall or a "Swordsman" quickly realized they needed to heavily rely on magic regardless of the path they chose for this game. This lack of diversity detracts many people. Many would argue that archery/melee are fine as is, because they've adapted to using magic to fill in the weaknesses or holes of the other playstyles, but as a base, when you have only magic possessing every utility and ability in the game, and all players regardless of their chosen path having to heavily delve into magic for this reason, something is fundamentally wrong in terms of real diversity existing.


The macroing situation. A lot of 'unlearned' and 'purist' players, from my conversations with them, seem to have a distaste for macroers, considering them 'cheaters' or 'exploiters' of their MMO-RPG gameworld, where things like setting up macros or swimming against structures breaks immersion for them, to say the least, and is not what they were looking for at all. However, most players would tell you that macroing is not only a requirement to be competitive in Darkfall in any reasonable time frame, but the more you macro, the more you simply benefit because there is no cap on skills you can master. Only a small % of prospective players appreciate this concept. I don't know if how macroing turned out is acceptable and was foreseen by the devs, (my guess it was not, adequately) but this is how it is presently.


Finally, DF's capless skill system that forever rewarding those who grind/macro more, creating the illusion of a "neverending grind". It doesn't really exist, on a competitive level, outside of isolated situations, that you can just get by without magic for example, or without melee mastery, or without rays spells leveled now, etc. I know prestige classes will most likely address this (and other elements of this post) to a certain extent at the least, but from the people I've spoken with, and from the guys I know who have quit, this is always one of the main factors.

Anyway, thanks again to the dev team for the long needed OP and I hope it's kept up.

Ararik
08-06-2010, 18:07
Mobs attacking cities!

Love this in coming expansion and love Tasos' post! Good job! :cool:

Bainwalker
08-06-2010, 18:09
Dear Tasos,

Myself as a player who has been around since before Beta feel as though you've forgotten what Darkfall was meant to be. Why is it after reading the Q&A AND the OP of this thread do I feel as though you just stabbed all your die hard followers in the back? People flocked to these forums for years before the game released because of the vision Darkfall had, many of us played the game despite the flaws because we thought you'd slowly be working towards the game you yourself bragged about for years. I really don't know what else to say other than I'm done with Darkfall, I was really hoping my sub would last long enough to see this "expansion" but I know it won't... and I'm not paying out 15 dollars just to check out some PVE changes that I doubt will bring back any of the missing population. You cannot hide behind the fact it's summer, even if it were not the population would be as ow as it is now. People want balance, people want to feel useful without grinding for months on end first. Whatever happened to "No grind"? Whatever happened to the lore meaning something? Where is the game I bought? I sure as hell don't see it. All I see is a glorified battlefield game which requires a grind to compete first. Without the mystery that was the world at EU launch this game has no exploration... and now that all the cities are built there is no construction either. EU launch was fun because people were all on the same level, because there was unknowns. BECAUSE there was a population with constant struggle over even the most worthless hamlets. There were so many clans that owning one holding was hard enough... let alone the average of 3 - 4 clans now get for portal locations. (Which should not be in my DF anyways)

You've slowly and surely insured there is no going back to the amazing vision you once had, and that's sad considering the legions of players that would flood back if you actually did turn Darkfall into the game it should rightfully be.

paxprobellum
08-06-2010, 18:11
We announced that we’re working in the direction of mobs leveling up, and mobs attacking player cities.

This is so win.

My computer is broken right now and I'm really jonesing for some DF. Keep up the hard work, AV! <3

Paragus
08-06-2010, 18:16
Way better than the mmorpg post, would make sure that this gets linked into it.

Just to add to this, I made sure certain news depts picked up on it.

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/4/view/news/read/17731/Darkfall-Tasos-Flambouras-Dousing-the-Flames.html

http://www.massively.com/2010/08/06/darkfall-community-qanda-follow-up-offers-more-details/

Reid
08-06-2010, 18:17
Mobs attacking and taking over cities & holdings!

Make them live & travel in the world!

Awesome!

MAD-DUKE
08-06-2010, 18:18
I'd much rather die from falling once in a while than to have jumping off a massive cliff be an extremely viable option to escape a fight. Seems sort-of counter-intuitive. Every person who plays this game is always prepared to lose everything they've got. Oh well, it's not one of the biggest issues this game faces no matter how stupid and unbelievable it may be.

Think of it this way... this is an imaginary game. In a game where you can cast "Super Natural-Like Spells" You find it hard to believe that someone INTENTIONALLY jumping off a cliff can survive... I think sometimes people forget it's a game. Obviously, this is as intended justify it in your head as need be.

xpiher
08-06-2010, 18:21
What about making racial conflict actually take place through an opt-in RvR system where there are events that allow people to participate in large race alliance wars were people can take over out post, towns, and destroy racial capitals and then have events for people to rebuild or recapture the towns? That would add so much depth to the game it not even funny.

SynCaine
08-06-2010, 18:26
stuff about character dev

Sadly I think the answer is indeed prestige classes. My pure guess would be that more than one of them will block or significantly hinder magic, giving bonuses on par with magic buffs to compensate. Think Indestructible but far more varied and viable with just melee/archery skilled up.

I agree about the macro'ing bit, especially how useful afk swimming is after all this time. When you have been playing one character actively since NA1 launch, and someone who joined up two months ago has more quickness because they afk swimmer every night, something is seriously wrong.

Loadafreak
08-06-2010, 18:28
About player deaths to falling damage, we don’t like it and we’ve tested this a lot. Players in early beta may recall that you could die to falling, something that we quickly removed. Dying in a full loot game, with a lot of elevation you can access freely, due a misstep or lag, can be extremely annoying. Are you prepared to die to falling damage once every so often and possibly lose everything you’ve got? It’s not like you don’t take falling damage now, and if someone is abusing the system during PvP, it should be easier in most cases for his opponents to kill him than gravity. As with the global messages, nothing is carved in stone but please allow us to have a strong opinion now and again.


I understand the reasoning, but still think for the HUGE falls, a player should die. for falls where you are in the air for like 10-15 seconds off the floating islands or super tall mountains and stuff.

If a player puts himself in a position where huge fall damage may be likely, that is his choice and should suffer the possible consequences of it.

You say "Dying in a full loot game, with a lot of elevation you can access freely, due a misstep or lag, can be extremely annoying". Well then I guess you better remove drowning and lava damage in case someone missteps into that. Also remove the kraken while you are at it because it is sometimes 'annoying'.

0 fall damage death removes some tactical situations from the game. for example, when we find some people on a floating island with one entrance by zeppelin, they are not trapped or cornered, because once they feel loadlag/see/hear us they can just mount and jump off the other side without a single thought.

When going to these super-high places, the player shouldn't be thinking 'I'm going to farm mobs, I can run away anytime I like, just like any other place'. it should be 'this area is a little more dangerous than normal, I'll have to be careful and not get trapped.' Perhaps there can be a utility slow-fall spell or something to save falling players who choose to use it.

There is also ways to make fall damage even more worthless than it already is (running off the cliff mounted, and letting it take the damage. or spawning a mount under you as you are falling and then mid-air mounting it for 0 damage between you.)

smackyou
08-06-2010, 18:29
I can say im back in track with AV...as pissed of after last QA but know i fell better :D

Zach-Attack!!
08-06-2010, 18:42
I just... I fucking.... Oh my fucking God Tasos I love you.

Stone Dog
08-06-2010, 18:42
You are working on too much at a time.

You should release more often.

This for starters but I'll have more once I've read everything here.

Wyndal
08-06-2010, 18:44
Haven't read all the follow-up posts so this may have been suggested already, but...has the following been considered with regard to the global war/siege messages:



- Disable pretty much all global on-screen messages.

- Instead, display all of the same messages on a usable/readable bulletin board that can be accessed only inside cities/towns.

> Keeps the information available to everyone on the server.
> Makes cities more interesting.
> Increases game immersion - no immersion breaking notices on-screen.


Other thoughts,
- only have these in NPC cities to add incentive for being blue?!

- can also have these in NPC and Chaos cities, will not add incentive to being blue but will increase the use and populations in and around cities, checking bulletin boards and "town crier NPCs?" for the latest global news.

Stanleyxd
08-06-2010, 18:48
new archer weapon types made me 8D

SidVicious
08-06-2010, 18:49
Tasos,

this is a quality post !!

agreed!!!!

u have to realize that most of the community is as passionate about DF as you are. the way you responded to the Q&A made us feel disconnected. you made a wrong a right by clearing things up. good job........ dont let it happen again:sly:.

vanyok
08-06-2010, 18:49
Great post, thanks Tasos.

MortalZero
08-06-2010, 18:51
Haven't read all the follow-up posts so this may have been suggested already, but...has the following been considered with regard to the global war/siege messages:



- Disable pretty much all global on-screen messages.

- Instead, display all of the same messages on a usable/readable bulletin board that can be accessed only inside cities/towns.

> Keeps the information available to everyone on the server.
> Makes cities more interesting.
> Increases game immersion - no immersion breaking notices on-screen.


Other thoughts,
- only have these in NPC cities to add incentive for being blue?!

- can also have these in NPC and Chaos cities, will not add incentive to being blue but will increase the use and populations in and around cities, checking bulletin boards and "town crier NPCs?" for the latest global news.

Yes this would 'sandboxfy' Darkfall further. This we would like to see added as "new sandbox element : bulletin boards in NPC cities" instead of fun - hulks. However announcing those sieges is still counter - productive towards sandbox.

Örn
08-06-2010, 18:53
ok i asked for something else after the last Q&A and even bewbs would do.

This is much better! Thanks for a good post and try and keep updates more like this in the future.

\thumbs_up

hyperion_x91
08-06-2010, 18:55
I just have 2 things I'd like discussed.

-Portals- I would prefer to see portable portals created by multiple mages on both ends. Lets say a total of 10... 5 on each side. The mana is drained very quickly one mage at a time, and upon reaching 0 mana that mage would be sucked through. The more mana those in the portal chant had the longer it could be maintained. I'd like to see your teams thought on this.... in all honesty this is something I expected in ritual magic until it's removal.

-Fall Damage- I understand where you're coming from with this, and I agree foe the most part. The only thing I wonder is why dying from fall damage has to happen from full health to 0... why can't you just keep the cap on fall damage and have it kill you I you have less health than the fall dmg dealt. If you are low on health you should be avoiding ledges, not using them as an escape.

Aristos
08-06-2010, 19:07
Posts like this are greatly appreciated. Saying that you care what we think is one thing, actually showing it by communicating with us on a regular basis is another. We don't need posts like this once a week or anything, just when we feel there needs to be some explaining to do.


Just to clarify, you said the expansion is going to take another month from today?


Also, again, please reconsider your stance on spell fizzles. If you notice in the player discussion forums there are several threads relating to this topic and literally 80-90% of players agree that fizzles should be taken out of game, or at least changed. Here's what bugs me:

"We also mention in the QA that we’ll reward mages for being mages and not simply through removing fizzle from spells. This is and should be big news for mages."

They don't just affect mages. In fact, they mainly affect players who wear slightly heavier armor and use archery and melee. You can't imagine how many fights are lost by these players due to failing several transfer spells in a row. Random factors like this shouldn't decide the outcome of a fight...

DeManiac
08-06-2010, 19:10
Haven't read all the follow-up posts so this may have been suggested already, but...has the following been considered with regard to the global war/siege messages:



- Disable pretty much all global on-screen messages.

- Instead, display all of the same messages on a usable/readable bulletin board that can be accessed only inside cities/towns.

> Keeps the information available to everyone on the server.
> Makes cities more interesting.
> Increases game immersion - no immersion breaking notices on-screen.


Other thoughts,
- only have these in NPC cities to add incentive for being blue?!

- can also have these in NPC and Chaos cities, will not add incentive to being blue but will increase the use and populations in and around cities, checking bulletin boards and "town crier NPCs?" for the latest global news.


I love the idea of having announcements like these placed in Cities where you have to go a check up on em.
Pros:
Creates a meeting point where people meet without having direct combat in mind, it makes delivering messages to the server easier such as events, makes it easier to implement features which relies on these type of systems later on, bounty hunting, temporary quests, clan information and so on.

You create one of these in your city and you get a global message update every day or so, requires you to go there once a day but not frequently check it.
People can add their own local messages to it, announce sales etc.
Clans can assign access to it.
NPC cities only have the last 20 ones from players(could cost to buy a spot) and the global messages have their own section.
Works nice with the added political map features aswel if combined in a "phase 2".

Rex Lawless
08-06-2010, 19:29
Great post Tasos.
This will be a great help for us who loves Darkfall to stand up for the game against those who are negative. I mean... many other games has taken over five years after the release to become perfect (if a game can be that).

I feel your frustration in the creation of this thread. But i am shore that most dedicated players understands it... this forum is not reprecentative for the active players at Agon... i know after a year of playing.
I have played most races and traveled all over the Darkfall world, and i feel that most people ingame loves the game and are waiting with exitement on the future content.

And most of us do understand the massiveness and the problems of launching new content... maby we need to put more effort into explaining the problems of launching new content into a full pvp game. After all... this is a one of a kind game.

ty // Rex Lawless

Galadourn
08-06-2010, 19:31
We announced that we’re working in the direction of mobs leveling up, and mobs attacking player cities. We didn’t mention this in the Q&A but this should be in the next expansion plus a lot more as far as PvE goes. We’re mentioning it now because it was confirmed to me today.

Now this is really interesting. Can't wait to see how it is implemented

Flutschi
08-06-2010, 19:35
Oh wow, didnt expect that.

Thanks.

Kasmos
08-06-2010, 19:37
I think the best way to reach this goal is to allow multiple holdings owned by the same clan able to be sieged at the same time instead of only one as it is now. The current system allows a clan to defend 1 holding just as easy as 10 because only one can ever be in danger at a time. If this were changed then it would allow big empire clans holding empty cities vulnerable to being ganged up on and force them to pick and choose which holding they want to defend in a massive coordinated attack.

Think back to World War 1 on EU where King Manus had all those holdings under his influence. The only way he was able to be brought down to size was the fact that his empire would have upwards of six of their holdings under siege on a given weekend. The only reason why this was possible is because each holding was owned by a different clan. Now in this era, we have single clans holding a lot of real estate. This means no matter what or where you siege, they can make sure to have their entire army show up at every battle.

Just my 2 cents ;)

I agree completely. I also think that if they are going to keep the global siege messages in, that they really, really need to remove the messages clan members get when enemies are in their city. These messages (not the global siege messages) prevent ANY clan, large or small, from placing sneak/strategic attacks on a city, because everyone in the enemy clan just ports back in.

Corp-Por
08-06-2010, 19:41
Thank you Tas

Death's Chill
08-06-2010, 19:58
This is a good post Tasos, no doubt about that. Your hearts are into this game, it is like your child and whatever choices you make for the game are yours.

But, having said this, I'm sorry to say you are moving in a direction that I don't really like much. Again it is your game, you can do what you like, but I think more instant travel and global system messages make the game more shallow.

I think declaring war with someone or dropping a siege already has a ton of consequences and risk involved, before anyone else knows about it.

Dying due to fall damage would be so awesome in my opinion. It is true that a bad lag spike could potentially push my enjoyment off the cliff, but honestly that would not happen often, and even if it did, there would be a chance to recover your stuff. I think the potential strategical maneuvers possible to adding this far outweigh the small chance of dying due to lag.

It really sucks because you're doing so much stuff that I love, but these three things are ultra critical blows for me. :(

Kasmos
08-06-2010, 20:02
Haven't read all the follow-up posts so this may have been suggested already, but...has the following been considered with regard to the global war/siege messages:



- Disable pretty much all global on-screen messages.

- Instead, display all of the same messages on a usable/readable bulletin board that can be accessed only inside cities/towns.

> Keeps the information available to everyone on the server.
> Makes cities more interesting.
> Increases game immersion - no immersion breaking notices on-screen.


Other thoughts,
- only have these in NPC cities to add incentive for being blue?!

- can also have these in NPC and Chaos cities, will not add incentive to being blue but will increase the use and populations in and around cities, checking bulletin boards and "town crier NPCs?" for the latest global news.

Oh my god, so fucking /signed!!!!!!!!!!!!

Keno
08-06-2010, 20:05
This is a good post Tasos, no doubt about that. Your hearts are into this game, it is like your child and whatever choices you make for the game are yours.

But, having said this, I'm sorry to say you are moving in a direction that I don't really like much. Again it is your game, you can do what you like, but I think more instant travel and global system messages make the game more shallow.

I think declaring war with someone or dropping a siege already has a ton of consequences and risk involved, before anyone else knows about it.

Dying due to fall damage would be so awesome in my opinion. It is true that a bad lag spike could potentially push my enjoyment off the cliff, but honestly that would not happen often, and even if it did, there would be a chance to recover your stuff. I think the potential strategical maneuvers possible to adding this far outweigh the small chance of dying due to lag.

It really sucks because you're doing so much stuff that I love, but these three things are ultra critical blows for me. :(

Agreed

Bear68
08-06-2010, 20:10
Good post any luck with the ping issue? :rolleyes:

Aristos
08-06-2010, 20:16
Haven't read all the follow-up posts so this may have been suggested already, but...has the following been considered with regard to the global war/siege messages:



- Disable pretty much all global on-screen messages.

- Instead, display all of the same messages on a usable/readable bulletin board that can be accessed only inside cities/towns.

> Keeps the information available to everyone on the server.
> Makes cities more interesting.
> Increases game immersion - no immersion breaking notices on-screen.


Other thoughts,
- only have these in NPC cities to add incentive for being blue?!

- can also have these in NPC and Chaos cities, will not add incentive to being blue but will increase the use and populations in and around cities, checking bulletin boards and "town crier NPCs?" for the latest global news.

Love this idea

selenius
08-06-2010, 20:23
Are you prepared to die to falling damage once every so often and possibly lose everything you’ve got?

I see the logic here, however, I think the problem can still be addressed not by death at low health from fall damage, but the following:

when receiving fall damage at less than 20%, the player's stam is completely wiped (or 50%), and an over-encumbered move speed penalty is given to the player for 2 minutes


Furthermore, while I agree that this post had bit more information, I don't think it's really saying anything different than the Q&A post. It's basically the same set of answers with more fluff. A+ for effort, though.

Please, PLEASE, just give us your best ongoing estimate for the expansion!
We know you don't want to say it out loud, because it could be dissappointing, but WE DESERVE TO KNOW!!!

Kasmos
08-06-2010, 20:26
when receiving fall damage at less than 20%, the player's stam is completely wiped (or 50%), and an over-encumbered move speed penalty is given to the player for 2 minutes

This definitely could work also.



Please, PLEASE, just give us your best ongoing estimate for the expansion!
We know you don't want to say it out loud, because it could be dissappointing, but WE DESERVE TO KNOW!!!

They did, it is a month away, but they are going to try to have it out sooner.

Mezmorized
08-06-2010, 20:30
:DIf I get killed by a few trolls that where bored while im afk and I loose my epic shit will be good times on vent thats for sure :D

mxking
08-06-2010, 20:32
Thanks for the follow up post. I don't understand why people complain so much. Although I like the fact that you guys are delaying patches. It means you aren't half-assing your work and just throwing stuff out to make it look like everything is going smooth. Your being honest and busting your ass off and thats all that matters!

Although I have to say that the next large "pvp balance" patch should be implemented in one expansion. That way theres no quick throw in like destroyers were ( which was fine it balanced it better ) but getting the game to 99% balanced factor and then releasing it would be awesome.

Either way I have faith! Thanks aventurine for making this great game that all of us ( even the bitchers ) love.

selenius
08-06-2010, 20:33
They did, it is a month away, but they are going to try to have it out sooner.

Ah- I misread the phrasing. Thanks for the clarification.

mtrein
08-06-2010, 20:33
Well... I'll be back when the grind is removed (or at least reduced to 5% of what it is today), not before. Otherwise, I'd rather spend my time doing other things.

Aikar Walmoor
08-06-2010, 20:33
Dear Tasos,

Myself as a player who has been around since before Beta feel as though you've forgotten what Darkfall was meant to be. Why is it after reading the Q&A AND the OP of this thread do I feel as though you just stabbed all your die hard followers in the back? People flocked to these forums for years before the game released because of the vision Darkfall had, many of us played the game despite the flaws because we thought you'd slowly be working towards the game you yourself bragged about for years. I really don't know what else to say other than I'm done with Darkfall, I was really hoping my sub would last long enough to see this "expansion" but I know it won't... and I'm not paying out 15 dollars just to check out some PVE changes that I doubt will bring back any of the missing population. You cannot hide behind the fact it's summer, even if it were not the population would be as ow as it is now. People want balance, people want to feel useful without grinding for months on end first. Whatever happened to "No grind"? Whatever happened to the lore meaning something? Where is the game I bought? I sure as hell don't see it. All I see is a glorified battlefield game which requires a grind to compete first. Without the mystery that was the world at EU launch this game has no exploration... and now that all the cities are built there is no construction either. EU launch was fun because people were all on the same level, because there was unknowns. BECAUSE there was a population with constant struggle over even the most worthless hamlets. There were so many clans that owning one holding was hard enough... let alone the average of 3 - 4 clans now get for portal locations. (Which should not be in my DF anyways)

You've slowly and surely insured there is no going back to the amazing vision you once had, and that's sad considering the legions of players that would flood back if you actually did turn Darkfall into the game it should rightfully be.

Good post. But what you didnt like of this thread exactly?

selenius
08-06-2010, 20:36
Well... I'll be back when the grind is removed (or at least reduced to 5% of what it is today), not before. Otherwise, I'd rather spend my time doing other things.

This is an issue that I fear has not been addressed at all.

I really hope to see something that further reduces the grind for non-vets, because while it is significantly better than release, I don't think it's quite right yet. The curve is still just a little too high.

*crosses fingers for expansion*

Lee
08-06-2010, 20:43
GREAT POST TASOS. Thank you.

A lot of us were looking for some real gauges to your intent and now we have it. I have a little more faith now that the game is headed in a decent enough direction. If you can really do what you are saying I will be back for 2010 and maybe even resub if this next patch is so cool. I feel much better about the money I have spent thus far and if you can actually do what you say I'll keep paying further. Here's to the future and thank you for caring enough to take the time to give us a good thorough message.

I still disagree with "no falling damage".

Lee
08-06-2010, 20:43
I meant no death from falling :(

Phoboss
08-06-2010, 20:48
Thanks for this post, I think it made a lot of people happy, including myself.

Keep up the good work!
me too :D

Chris Windblade
08-06-2010, 20:54
Kasmos hey bro reread the post i think you missed it for the second time.

in case you missed it again let me make it clearer for you....

Darkfall’s expansion was delayed due to a testing failure in a major feature we decided to add to it. There was an announcement about this and our newest estimate is one month with an effort to make it sooner.

....................


Now i want to talk about something else that simi pertains to this thread.
I think its high time we start a new movement in darkfall. I requires skill, it requires knowledge, it requires gall, it requires intelligence, and most of all it requires courage.

we can agree that darkfall is a game all by it self it has no other game todate that can compare to or be compared with. it has a lot of ups and downs and it has one of the best gaming community in any game i have seen. This has been the most vocal i have seen any comunity as far as how the game is played the most i have seen actualy even care enough to rat out the cheaters so they dont ruin this game for us.

now down to the point i want to make.

I have seen a movement in the past few months to help noobs out even alot of clans that are "to good for it" even throw good advice and even help out new players. this means alot to people joining this game.

the new movement i want to see happen in the next year to come is something called Honer, respect, between players. some sorta of code of honer. even in Real life in real world war were all human and we give respect when its do. this means you play hard, you have fun and don't spit on some one when they are down. instead you pick them up and teach them to be better. in turn instead of losing something you gain a better challenge in the end. This CODE of honer i speak of is something like the Pirates had in the books in the history of man.

i don't care if we set up some sorta of summit between all clan leaders to help figure out what the code will be about. but this will not only add layers to the political agendas but will give darkfall something that no other game can even consider doing. Darkfall has the tools for this to work we have the players with the right mind set to make this work. It asking for very little effort and we gain a lot from it.

give this some thought seriously. You all say you want to be the best at something. being the best of pvp, best of pve, best of fps style games. well this is something that is not easily achievable. but can be done with no grind. be the best clan around with a name that is more then just good skilled killers there is more to a game then killing any one can kill. In the movie Troy at the end the king in plain cloths stood in front of a man that was one of the hardest killers in the world. the king got on his knees and ask for honer. the man could have killed the king but instead he proved once again he is the best at what he is by showing honer and respect. this is a tru story by the way.

any ways would be really cool to see something like this the code of honor i was thinking of is something along the lines of pirates of the Caribbean but not so much as to copy there ideas but to make it are own.

Chris Windblade
08-06-2010, 20:57
sorry correction sorry kasmos i copyed the wrong name that was meant for selenius

Ausei
08-06-2010, 21:01
Damn these are the best developers I have encountered yet. Do the best to get more small updates out.

xenom
08-06-2010, 21:49
honour your effort behind the scene, thanks for sharing to us :)

this is what we like to hear here and there.

/hug

Bahatouridhs
08-06-2010, 22:11
Thanks for the feedback i really liked you have changes for mages and archers will be awesome, also the race change is on thats a +1.

Take care and have nice holidays cya in a month

Chris Windblade
08-06-2010, 22:14
Fucking beautiful post!
I do agree with AV's views on fall damage aswell. I don't want every fight on a hill, or in a high up player city just being a knockback war. Fall damage is great as it is.


the thing is the fall damage that most players are referring to is more for the bunny hoping.not so much of falling from cliffs, or random lagg. It is two different deals to be honst and while i support bunny hopping on from a spell i also think its a bit to much. I like it for the fact it gives you a chance to maybe catch a person that just confused/eye rotted you and fled away. but its a bit to much to basically bunny hope for such a long stretch if you get a clear path.
I have chained and healed in the middled of a hop and can get a long ways if i time it right. easily run past and way ahead of a mount running in a strait line infact i can make a cup of coffee waiting for him to catch up.

I like some of the suggestions that some have made I do support the after 3rd bunny hop you may have a chance to break a foot, or sprain your ankle so for a period of say 20 secs you have a slow like walk time and are unable to jump.

ImmortalRevenge
08-06-2010, 22:15
Tasos and Aventurine,

This is the kind of post that I truly appreciate. I know these past few days I've been upset and have shown my disappointment about the Q&A in these forums, but it's only because I, as so many others who were showing disappointment, love this game so much and see it's true potential.

Thank you for posting this, and I truly hope you realize how important posts like these are to us, your community. By just making this post you have helped regain faith back not only in myself, but I can guarantee those in the community that have been pissed off these past few days.

Enjoy your weekend and I look forward to your future update, now just don't leave us in the dark for 3 more weeks again :sly:

Sincerely,

Kasmos - subscriber since February 25th, 2009

Not even gonna go any farther than this post before replying, I was so upset by the Q&A that I hadn't even logged on since i read it. I would have rather played other games, & i did.

After this post, all I have to say is Bravo. I'm so pumped for the expansion again, I'm logging on right now to continue preparing. :D

Now just keep giving it to us like this.

Abaratican
08-06-2010, 22:18
Fall damage/bunny hopping is fine how it is already.

Stop trying to take skill out of the game.

Lee
08-06-2010, 22:23
Fall damage/bunny hopping is fine how it is already.

Stop trying to take skill out of the game.

Ai Rz SKILD U Rz not, GTFO

bunnyhopping forever with no repercussions is NOT skill based in any means. I can set a fucking macro to do it for me.

a jackalope
08-06-2010, 22:29
Now i want to talk about something else that simi pertains to this thread.
I think its high time we start a new movement in darkfall. I requires skill, it requires knowledge, it requires gall, it requires intelligence, and most of all it requires courage.

we can agree that darkfall is a game all by it self it has no other game todate that can compare to or be compared with. it has a lot of ups and downs and it has one of the best gaming community in any game i have seen. This has been the most vocal i have seen any comunity as far as how the game is played the most i have seen actualy even care enough to rat out the cheaters so they dont ruin this game for us.

now down to the point i want to make.

I have seen a movement in the past few months to help noobs out even alot of clans that are "to good for it" even throw good advice and even help out new players. this means alot to people joining this game.

the new movement i want to see happen in the next year to come is something called Honer, respect, between players. some sorta of code of honer. even in Real life in real world war were all human and we give respect when its do. this means you play hard, you have fun and don't spit on some one when they are down. instead you pick them up and teach them to be better. in turn instead of losing something you gain a better challenge in the end. This CODE of honer i speak of is something like the Pirates had in the books in the history of man.

i don't care if we set up some sorta of summit between all clan leaders to help figure out what the code will be about. but this will not only add layers to the political agendas but will give darkfall something that no other game can even consider doing. Darkfall has the tools for this to work we have the players with the right mind set to make this work. It asking for very little effort and we gain a lot from it.

give this some thought seriously. You all say you want to be the best at something. being the best of pvp, best of pve, best of fps style games. well this is something that is not easily achievable. but can be done with no grind. be the best clan around with a name that is more then just good skilled killers there is more to a game then killing any one can kill. In the movie Troy at the end the king in plain cloths stood in front of a man that was one of the hardest killers in the world. the king got on his knees and ask for honer. the man could have killed the king but instead he proved once again he is the best at what he is by showing honer and respect. this is a tru story by the way.

any ways would be really cool to see something like this the code of honor i was thinking of is something along the lines of pirates of the Caribbean but not so much as to copy there ideas but to make it are own.

no

a jackalope
08-06-2010, 22:30
Fall damage/bunny hopping is fine how it is already.

Stop trying to take skill out of the game.

Listen everyone. Just because you cant do what Nacitar can doesnt mean it isn't good for the game.

JCatano
08-06-2010, 22:35
Personally, I think the post is similar to his communication apology post. It was a lot of words that didn't really say anything we haven't heard, and it dupes people into thinking something was actually said.

Politicians do it every, single day.

As far as some of his statements...

Global messages:

To be quite honest, I don't really care what you and your team likes, Tasos. AV is no longer making a game for themselves. That stopped as soon as people decided to buy/subscribe. The game needs to be made for your customers, because we are the ones paying your bills. If you don't keep your investors happy, you no longer have a running game.

There are risks for sieging even without global messages. The risks are quite obvious. Players can use their own contacts to gain intelligence.

Getting rid of holding alerts still have risks, too. The risks would now be on the people who are supposed to be populating the holding. As of now, the only risk is to the person tripping the alert, because the owners don't even have to be there in order to know who is in their city/hamlet. Allow people to be stealthy, please.

Aren't you the guy who said that there is no hand-holding in Darkfall? Well, man up to that.


Another instant travel mechanic (new portal system):

Many have already explained why instant travel waters down DF and simply turns a big, seamless map into a bunch of arenas. Quakefall isn't a phrase that was coined by accident.

Tasos, you'd be very wise to stand up in front of your entire team and read the following post and thread:

http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=256161

Darkfall isn't even close to that vision, although it could be with some changes. One of the changes would involve nixing instant travel. Why you'd even consider more instant travel is disturbing considering there are already runes, nexus, bindstone recall, house recall, and clan portals. The latter needs to be shot and thrown into a deep lake.


Patch/expansion/update delivery time:

More (at one time) is not always better. That needs to be drilled into the heads of AV. Smaller patches of the features you're working on would be much more desirable.

BluesFunk
08-06-2010, 22:36
This is MUCH better. I want to have make up sex with Tasos.

Irenor
08-06-2010, 22:37
The monster attacking player cities reminded me of a suggestion I made few weeks ago.

It's the first part of this post http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=255082

TL:DR, Basically, it's a suggestions intended to make it harder for clans to own more player cities than they can defend. Monsters would attack and siege Player Cities, which could then be controlled by whichever clan plants it's clanstone first after all the mobs are dead.


Anyway, happy to get this Follow-up, we needed it.

Mother Teresa
08-06-2010, 22:46
You've made my old withered heart spark a bit. Good job Tasos. So much more informative and 10x more professional.

Good on ya bra.

Chris Windblade
08-06-2010, 22:57
Listen everyone. Just because you cant do what Nacitar can doesnt mean it isn't good for the game.

but people can do what nacitar can its not even hard. how is it good for the game? if we wanted to play knight of the old republic with force speed and jump then we would play it. how is this even close to skilled combat ? once you learn where to place your mouse you can jump for ever and healing on the fly in between jumps is very easy with a macro.

Ararik
08-06-2010, 23:00
What about making racial conflict actually take place through an opt-in RvR system where there are events that allow people to participate in large race alliance wars were people can take over out post, towns, and destroy racial capitals and then have events for people to rebuild or recapture the towns? That would add so much depth to the game it not even funny.

Xpiher, for this vision of "DAoC 3000" I will pay!!! Lovely RvR.

It would be awesome :)

o0Tiny0o
08-06-2010, 23:04
Thanks very much for the frank and clear communication AV.

Could you please consider releasing updates in smaller, quicker doses?

The wait between them is just painful and any negatives about them get blown out of all proportion because there's nothing new in the near future to divert attention.

vanyok
08-06-2010, 23:14
Ai Rz SKILD U Rz not, GTFO

bunnyhopping forever with no repercussions is NOT skill based in any means. I can set a fucking macro to do it for me.

Oh I would love to see you do it. As a matter of fact I dare you to dude.
Bunny hopping requires a skill in this game. The reason why people QQ is because they can't keep up with those who are good at it.

Mariah
08-06-2010, 23:16
Can i have the 3rd Person View for magic and archery as it is right now for melee???? Most people i know dont even try darkfall because they want 3rd person view for magic... can we see some love on that matter please :)

Wyndal
08-06-2010, 23:17
Oh I would love to see you do it. As a matter of fact I dare you to dude.
Bunny hopping requires a skill in this game. The reason why people QQ is because they can't keep up with those who are good at it.

LOL. Maybe if Lee there ever successfully bunny hopped he would know that it takes skill + ton of health from you...

Don't worry Lee. You'll catch up some day. And if not, there's always HKO!!

Slowburn2020
08-06-2010, 23:19
Sounds great, but what would help keep many is an ETA, a rough esitmate seeing as were in august now and previous date fell through. I love the ideas for game but if some of these things dont happen soon there wont be much of a players base left to try it. This coming from a guy who has played since NA launch, and i can tell you from what i see the pop has diminished by 50-60% easily, the times of wolflands being full are gone im lucky to see a couple of people in any of the mainland npc cities.

Slowburn2020
08-06-2010, 23:20
Can i have the 3rd Person View for magic and archery as it is right now for melee???? Most people i know dont even try darkfall because they want 3rd person view for magic... can we see some love on that matter please :)

will never happen, sorry.

Mariah
08-06-2010, 23:29
will never happen, sorry.

hmm why?? If thats so why they still have the F11 as a 3rd person Toggle key? :D

Suncross
08-06-2010, 23:31
Tasos: this was a very good read. I really like your form of satire in parts of your post. It made me laugh.




About player deaths to falling damage, we don’t like it and we’ve tested this a lot. Players in early beta may recall that you could die to falling, something that we quickly removed. Dying in a full loot game, with a lot of elevation you can access freely, due a misstep or lag, can be extremely annoying. Are you prepared to die to falling damage once every so often and possibly lose everything you’ve got? It’s not like you don’t take falling damage now, and if someone is abusing the system during PvP, it should be easier in most cases for his opponents to kill him than gravity. As with the global messages, nothing is carved in stone but please allow us to have a strong opinion now and again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2l8Makk-4o

Watch 8:27-end



Perhaps we could have spelled things out more in the Q&A, but consider that we’re working very hard at the moment, we’re also missing a few people who are taking their vacations, and we don’t feel comfortable at all going into details before it’s time. As for the timing, we’re busting our asses to get these things done right as soon as possible and that’s the best I can give you outside of what you already know. This Q&A mostly touched on to-be-announced items. There will be proper announcements and spotlight features on everything as they become ready.

Thank you for reading

Just think about how amazing it will be when darkfall starts being advertised, and its' name eventually becoming popular. You, and the darkfall community, will have many stories to tell.

Kasmos
08-06-2010, 23:37
Fall damage/bunny hopping is fine how it is already.

Stop trying to take skill out of the game.

No, it's not fine, it's a huge immersion breaker, and we're playing a fucking MMO, NOT a Quake arena. Part of the beauty of an MMO is being immersed in your world. Bunny hopping is completely unrealistic, especially since you can't die from it.

I mean hell, why not add in jet packs that require a fuck ton of skill to use to fly around the world? Would that be cool? I mean, as long as it requires "skill", right?

Styrr Chipatama
08-06-2010, 23:40
http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=256356
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mQtLA_xJFA
Yo just posting this here, as it might be relevant.

Punish
08-06-2010, 23:45
Posts like this keep the game alive for me. Keep on doing a good job, and thanks for paying attention to the community.

PS: CLAN CITY FISH NODES!

Preparation H
08-07-2010, 00:13
Now thats quality communication. Congrats Tasos and thanks very much for some excellent information. The plans in progress sound awesome!

Saidrin
08-07-2010, 00:18
Now thats quality communication. Congrats Tasos and thanks very much for some excellent information. The plans in progress sound awesome!

Yeah, agree completely. I love it when Tasos gets pissed off. Love him or hate him, he isn't afraid to be blunt, unlike most PR departments. I don't always agree with his reasoning but I always know it's a real opinion.

Anyone who claims AV gives less information than other game companies is retarded.

SkadisRevenge
08-07-2010, 00:20
Great post tasos.

Melkorus
08-07-2010, 00:34
1. What is your resoning behind 'portals'. Nobody is asking for them and most people are very much against them. What do portals bring to the game (and what do they take away)?

2. Please consider adding smaller patches instead of giant expantions. One xpac a year is enough, but give us regular updates throughout.

3. Ask your comminity to help you come up with "SANDBOX" elements/tools/toys/features that they would like to see in Darkfall.

Thanks for the write up.

melipone
08-07-2010, 00:45
1. What is your resoning behind 'portals'. Nobody is asking for them and most people are very much against them. What do portals bring to the game (and what do they take away)?


Portals in dungeons like they originally mentioned would create pvp hotspots and allow players to find pvp in other parts of the world, rather than just trying to kill anything you find nearby. If AV make it more race alliance vs race alliance style pvp portals would help a ton for finding suitable targets

Plus traveling is just plain boring in DF.

AmonDominus
08-07-2010, 01:00
Now this is what I call feedback! Awesome read.
Thanks for everything <3

$id Viciou$
08-07-2010, 01:11
Thanks AV!

I am so excited!! :ohno:

In my book, you have always delivered more than expected.


About player deaths to falling damage, we don’t like it and we’ve tested this a lot. Players in early beta may recall that you could die to falling, something that we quickly removed. Dying in a full loot game, with a lot of elevation you can access freely, due a misstep or lag, can be extremely annoying. Are you prepared to die to falling damage once every so often and possibly lose everything you’ve got? It’s not like you don’t take falling damage now, and if someone is abusing the system during PvP, it should be easier in most cases for his opponents to kill him than gravity. As with the global messages, nothing is carved in stone but please allow us to have a strong opinion now and again.

Please do not ever take bunny-hopping out of the game!

I can think of no other FPS that comes even close to how cool and fun the physics are in this game . .. it is one of the things that stand out more than any other game that I have ever played (if that is what you are looking for).

It reminds me of Return to Castle Wolfenstein which up until I found Darkfall used to give me the biggest adrenaline rush. I never did get much of a rush from most other MMORPGs. Darkfall definitely tops them all now with the physics and full-loot FFA PVP.

Let them cry in the forums all they want but keep Darkfall physics the way they are pleeease!!

I have never come across anything funner or more challenging in any other game. It is hard but so awesome when it is pulled off.

I see pleads in forums daily about 'its too hard' or 'please put momentum in movement' or 'get rid of bunny-hopping broken mechanic'. If they do not want to bunny-hop than they have options like dealing more damage or having longer range already . .. and that's fair!

Not everyone likes to do it but for those that do this is the funnest game out there.

I really appreciate the post . .. and just got a little worried there with the line "if someone is abusing the system during PVP".

I really hope that your strong opinion is the same as mine because this game has the funnest physics that I have ever come across by far and I would have nothing else to play that compares.

:)

Thanks again for this awesome game!

Shioni
08-07-2010, 01:33
As for the timing, we’re busting our asses to get these things done right as soon as possible and that’s the best I can give you outside of what you already know.


My Europeans children finally know what working for Americans feels like ever day.

You know I heard some where that on average Europeans take 8-15 more vacations days more then Americans, or maybe it was 3-5 more weeks...

When I worked in America I was given 10 vacation days, busted my ass day and night to move shipments. When someone screwed up the boss always took the heat, but the little people suffered.

I have to commend you Tasos for doing such a fine job. You bit off more then you could chew with this expansion and this follow up Q&A was nothing less then a perfect follow up.

It is very hard to crack down on a team and keep a positive aptitude. If your designers ever resent their jobs it will show in the work they do.

I don't know how AV runs the business, but I hope its not always busting your ass to get the next thing done.

We want you to make good changes in the continuous development of Darkfall, giving people time for Vacations is fine, but consider this idea...

Have people donate spare time to work on the game, when you guys achieve say 500 hours just take a break and have fun for a day. Maybe even play some Darkfall with the players.

Its more important to enjoy what your working on, then to rush to finish it and become unhappy with the results.

Hopefully if people are encouraged to put more time into the game and feel less like they absolutely have to spend their vacation time away you can complete what ever task your working on quickly.

Darkfall is really more then a game, it is a revolution. To have come so far and tasted success, there is nothing you cannot accomplish now.

ChinaCat
08-07-2010, 01:43
Awesome post Tasos.

Communication in this tone with more regularity would be greatly appreciated, as these responses clearly demonstrate.

Thank you.

3lood
08-07-2010, 01:51
The problem we faced with the questions asked is that they were mostly about topics we cannot discuss yet and that’s why it took us a while to deliver it. Rather than to not respond or to avoid answering most of them, we decided out of respect for the community to address every single question as best as we could.

Before I go into the content within the Q&A, I have to explain that when we say that we’re looking into something, or considering, or have plans for, it doesn’t mean that we’re being evasive or diplomatic in our answers. If that was our intention, we simply wouldn’t answer.

Your answers can be more lesure you know we don't have to know exactly what you can't tell us we are listening and when a person doesn't respond it sounds as if your ignoring us. When u say "we’re looking into something, or considering, or have plans for, it doesn’t mean that we’re being evasive or diplomatic in our answers." It actually does mean u are being evasive or diplomatic in our answers, if u didn't answer at all it would just be rude.



When we post something about upcoming features publicly, anything, it gets multiple authorizations before it goes out and there’s nothing informal about it. The specific QA replies were collaboration between Claus Grovdal, and Kjetil Helland and myself. There’s real information in the Q&A and a lot more insight to be found than skimming quickly through it might reveal:

This is why your answers are diplomatic and evasive.



Darkfall’s expansion was delayed due to a testing failure in a major feature we decided to add to it. There was an announcement about this and our newest estimate is one month with an effort to make it sooner. This won’t delay further development and on that topic, we are running parallel development of Darkfall and Darkfall 2010. This means that there are two different development efforts going on at the moment. We regret that the expansion was delayed repeatedly, but it’s only because we’re trying to deliver more than expected.

Hopefully in the future you know what you can deliver so we don't have your dev team split, and we all spend months waiting for terrain upgrades.



Concerning the global messaging system, we like that players can know in real-time what’s going on in the world. We like that there’s risk in making certain decisions. There are drawbacks to be sure but in our pros and cons list, the pros outweigh the cons. Are we open to considering making adjustments to this? Of course we are, if we believe it’s what’s best for the game and for the majority of the players.

Lots of players already know in real time what is going on, especially when they are the parties involved, the problem with the global message is it tells parties that are not involved and welcomes them into the fight that would otherwise have nothing to do with them. Meaning you have 2 parties involved in a siege and multiple other parties waiting for a retreat or push so they can flake usually a weaker side. That's gold out of one parties team.



We’re rolling out a political map and several other clan tools. We also have several plans for additions to clan cities and we’re working on implementing various types of clan insignia. What’s behind the previous statement should be pretty big news for clans.

"We’re rolling out a political map and several other clan tools." What does that even mean?



A portal system is being evaluated to make sure that it will be good for the game.

We have runes stones, clan portals, and houses already. In many peoples opinion that is enough.



Keep in mind that all this is running concurrently in different stages in the pipeline. These are not long-term plans. Consider that there’s a lot more in the pipeline than what we’ve talked about here, things that we haven’t announced yet. This is not a wish-list; these are things we’re putting a lot of work into as we speak.

Perhaps we could have spelled things out more in the Q&A, but consider that we’re working very hard at the moment, we’re also missing a few people who are taking their vacations, and we don’t feel comfortable at all going into details before it’s time. As for the timing, we’re busting our asses to get these things done right as soon as possible and that’s the best I can give you outside of what you already know. This Q&A mostly touched on to-be-announced items. There will be proper announcements and spotlight features on everything as they become ready.


Yea well the expansion is already over due with errorous problems, when will you announce what is supposed to be in the expansion.... I think we have sounds, a new mob, and terrain upgrades announced and a look at a few of the new character models.

Alberton
08-07-2010, 02:20
Thank you for making this thread.

I would however like your designers to be very open and consultative about the pros and cons of a portal system before you make your final decision whether to implement it.

I still think my suggestion of having one "city" bind and one "general" bind is a much better system and will improve immersion. Feel free to explain why this isnt the case.

I look forward to the stronger emphasis on PvE in this game. With the huge disadvantages in Pvp many of us have because of ping, and noone having yet developed a model for a MMO that compensates adequately to balance this technical issue, having worthwhile things to do other than fight people would be appreciated.

Seriousbisnis
08-07-2010, 02:42
Very good :)

Jedicake
08-07-2010, 03:17
This.

Is.

The Greatest.

Post.

AV has ever.

Made.

kozzmozz
08-07-2010, 03:19
Global messages:

To be quite honest, I don't really care what you and your team likes, Tasos. AV is no longer making a game for themselves. That stopped as soon as people decided to buy/subscribe. The game needs to be made for your customers, because we are the ones paying your bills. If you don't keep your investors happy, you no longer have a running game.


Are you one of those kids with the 'I-want-it-my-way-and-I-want-it-now attitude? To be quite honest aswell, after seeing such a post I hope AV does exactly the opposite of what you like.

xpiher
08-07-2010, 03:41
Xpiher, for this vision of "DAoC 3000" I will pay!!! Lovely RvR.

It would be awesome :)

Its not really DAoC though since you don't have to participate. Its DAoC meets UO/EvE factional fighting which makes it better.

xpiher
08-07-2010, 03:42
Cough!

What about making racial conflict actually take place through an opt-in RvR system where there are events that allow people to participate in large race alliance wars were people can take over out post, towns, and destroy racial capitals and then have events for people to rebuild or recapture the towns? That would add so much depth to the game it not even funny.

See RvR (https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AYNanGuEEWawZHp3Y2Jxd183aGZnM zJ2Y24&hl=en#RvR)

Falendor
08-07-2010, 04:35
More feedback like this plz.

So pumped for xpack!

[PvP]
08-07-2010, 04:52
This is the type of post and information that we have been asking for, for about a year. Thank you for listening. Thank you for posting.

wicked
08-07-2010, 05:04
I love darkfall! Screw these whiners! Get a life you nerds! If you didn't sit at your computer 24/7 it wouldn't bother you so much if you didn't know every detail about darkfall's development for the next two years!

JCatano
08-07-2010, 05:34
Are you one of those kids with the 'I-want-it-my-way-and-I-want-it-now attitude? To be quite honest aswell, after seeing such a post I hope AV does exactly the opposite of what you like.

The above doesn't even make sense considering it is completely irrelevant to my post that you replied to.

shamer gamer
08-07-2010, 06:47
I really feel bad for devs having to pander to these ungrateful entitled spoiled man-children who want everything NOW NOW NOW or they will leave and take their entire clan of 100 people w/ them.

bravo for sticking with your guns (for the most part) and ignoring the wishes of the minority of vocal whiners aka "the community" that would certainly destroy the game. the people who enjoy your game are playing it, not crying on the forums about how core mechanics need to be changed.

I like the fun hulks, I dont see why people complain about them. keep up the good work.

thank you for not caving in regards to local banking at least.

Zerbz
08-07-2010, 06:50
Unreal post, this is the type of shit that makes us super pumped for the expansion, keep making posts like this.

Thanks.

Metalkon
08-07-2010, 07:34
I can't wait for it... :(

Hi Zerbz

Acaelus Thorne
08-07-2010, 09:33
I want a player-city to be raided by a fire dragon :) That would be epic :ninja:

Temko Firewing
08-07-2010, 10:19
Are you one of those kids with the 'I-want-it-my-way-and-I-want-it-now attitude? .

not directed at me, but i have to respond.

- it's not that i want it "my way, this moment", i'd LOVE my way, but AV makes the game so i'll leave the pick and choose to them. if i dont like it, i dont pay a sub.

but what pisses me of to no end are the delays, delays and repeated delays.

if they want to "bring more then planned" then they need to re-think that strategy, we're happy to get 3 expansion in 9 months that bring the same as the 1 in 9 months. contant changes and updates keep the game fresh.

but thats not the real end... if its "a few weeks", either fix or remove the broken feature to make it that few weeks.

much like the weather system got delayed to implement fixes so the expansion could get out and we could enjoy the rest of the goodies, i feel that this is a decision AV needs to do more often.

decide: deliver "to much" or deliver "on time".

i can tell you... we're kinda worn out on the "to much". we (many many many players) would rather have "X not in, fubared and coming in a bit, but here is the rest "

HeliosNorlund
08-07-2010, 10:45
one of tasos best posting
restore my full hope
special the "mages will be rewarded tp play mage style"

so thats a clear statement that not magic itself but play mage style will be rewarded

there lots ways to do this

like fizzle chance reduce and spellpower increase if u have a staff longer than 15 sec unsheated

so all melee archer just get staff out for some heal conversion or a ray burst and the switch back to their main weapons wouldnt get full use of magic

and a mage styöe player would start think twice if he make a quick whirlwind with melee weapon or he better keep his magic bonus

just one idea lot others are possible
im very interested to find out how u think u can reward mages that play mage role

garrettl
08-07-2010, 11:25
Excellent post. I appreciate the fact you have taken the time to explain things better.

Groenholdt
08-07-2010, 12:06
I really feel bad for devs having to pander to these ungrateful entitled spoiled man-children who want everything NOW NOW NOW or they will leave and take their entire clan of 100 people w/ them.

It's funny you say that.. This game is dying and actually we can't afford to loose them tbh

Luuranko
08-07-2010, 12:10
Good post!!!

I am a bit Affraid of presitige classes hope it doesnt go to some beeing OP to others

Xipe Totec
08-07-2010, 12:19
now, THIS is the commander i've been waitin for

kozzmozz
08-07-2010, 12:32
The above doesn't even make sense considering it is completely irrelevant to my post that you replied to.

If u go on a restaurant do u eat the food how the chef makes it or do u want the chef make it like u want it? U say because you pay monthly for this game u think AV is working for u now and that the game should be made how the customers want it. I cant agree with that.

DDR Empire
08-07-2010, 12:53
just wanted to state that this is the clearest most concise info ever presented to the DFO community about something AV has in the works. Thanks Tasos, much love, all wed like is a lil clarification sometimes and you delivered, big time.

wisdom
08-07-2010, 13:07
Several new spells and alignment changes to the way you gain or lose alignment are on their way. These are generally considered important additions to a game. We also mention in the QA that we’ll reward mages for being mages and not simply through removing fizzle from spells. This is and should be big news for mages.



I don't care about all the other bells and whistles, THIS is what you need to get right. Your population is at stake here. The world will never be active and populated when there is no penalty for killing anyone and everyone on site.

There is a difference between PvP, and murdering , and hopelessly outnumbering (zerging) your prey. Use the old Ultima Online justice system with murder counts, and allow a certain number before turning RED. Once red, they are outcast and must live the hard life that they have brought upon themselves. This isnt a First Person Shooter game FFS, its a community with complex interactions.


--------------------------

Next issue:

Your protocols are all wrong. How do you know what to fix if you don't know the problem? You are walking blindly into the wilderness without any clue where you are going.

I advice using this method:

Tell us your outlined basis of ideas. Allow a heavily moderated, but not CENSORED community discussion about the issues at hand. Talk to the whole dev team until you have a mutual agreement on your response as a Development TEAM. Then finalize the concept with a community poll. Once the community has spoken and that is an agreed upon path for the game, start implimenting.

You do not need grandious expansion size patches to fix little things. Please fix bugs as they are presented, and not try to fix them all in one huge patch.

Thankyou.

Uzuki
08-07-2010, 13:31
I didn't see any problems in the Q/A personally. I like that you guys don't tease us with wish lists but always give us what is going to go in the game. Still your the only game i've found thats goin in the right direction. Keep it up.

Saorlan
08-07-2010, 13:33
Mobs attacking cities!

Yes this is excellent.

But... Please please please listen to the players and get rid of all race clans and start up racial wars and bring in the lore !!!

Gestas
08-07-2010, 13:34
All Hail Tasos!


Make Fall damage NEVER decap and increase the tap out timer alot like a few minutes, So adventurers can recover their friends body if there is no pvp.

Lets be real about this.
Fall off cliff broken bones almost unconcious I can survive for a good couple hours if not liquified by a very large fall but since its a game lets just not have decap fall damage.

Allow Mages in Robes to wear a Ghillie suit and Boots, Gloves and helmets Perhaps shoulder pads too in addition to robes the Ghilli would be another robe perhaps a little bit armored but more slightly more encumberance.

PVE monsters should drop EVERYTHING they utilize Black knights full suit of black knight armor ect, Just like players how come the COMPUTER gets it so easy.

Friend computer cheats.

Looking Forward to alignment changes, Hopefully there can be atleast some form of civility at all instead of rampant slaughter of infinite ages past like walking demigods rampant with hubris.

Or rather a Teeny bit of stability is nice.

Prestige classes must have Roleplay elements to obtain.
And there must always be a penalty in equal proportion to their benefits always, They just have advantage in certain sitiuations with specialized skills.

BERSERKER
PALADIN
JESTER (GINGER) ~ Automatically self revives upon being downed after 5 minutes Can only be slain by Ganking However his character cannot stop talking so he can be heard from a kilometre away.

Enhance sandbox tools for creating dynamic situations and have the system automatically utilize encounters and experiences a player should encounter Randomly but however not to infrequently, experiencing dynamic encounters
~ Think fallout 2 random encounters system but on steroids ~

For example.

A trail of Chaos chests leading to a cave that contains 2-7 chests.

A Goblin stalks you because you slew his family and has been secretly training and accumulating gear.

A pitfall which lands you in a nearby dungeon

A brief energy surge and random teleportation, Kraken eats you.
A zombie opens trade with you and Passes you a Mead.

Random traveling monk that heals players.

I could continue I just seriously hope AV considers some of my proposals as they are seemingly all I post on these boards in Suggestions besides Thread Sniping :ninja:

Gray Fox
08-07-2010, 14:46
These kinds of updates that clearify information are more worth than some ingame content to save subscriptions, the image of a company is a very important part.
Problem is there are many people who like to talk shit and be pessimist, add that with trolls and you have a fragile public opinion.

dariobrun
08-07-2010, 15:13
Thank you for this post Tasos, you gave me faith again in the future of DF :)

I admit the Q&A scared me like many others but with these new explanation i can see there is a lot more coming than i was expecting after reading that interview and now i am just hoping it will come asap :D

rbeck
08-07-2010, 17:24
Luckily i am on holiday and read this very good post right after reading the somewhat vague Q&A post.

Posts like these are what we/I want!

Tasos you clearly have the writing abilities of your team, do like they do in AOC and release a director letter each month on your thoughts and whatever new is happening. This i would like very much to see.

amsedal
08-07-2010, 20:48
I'm against this, actual system is fine. More easy travelling = more zerg, like the system global message.



I would like to see something done with the roads instead of a portal system... with the new terrain system can t someone add some speed increases to mounts and running speed? You know and once you step off you slow down, even if it was something like a buff, like when you're in acid ..... :idea:

KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK AV!

natedagreat
08-07-2010, 20:52
But... Please please please listen to the players and get rid of all race clans and start up racial wars and bring in the lore !!!

oh god, this is one of the suggestions in this thread that i just cannot back...also about half of the other suggestions in this thread posted by people are complete fail made by people who dont truly understand the workings of the game.


As for having clans that are only one race, that is just horrible and here is why:

1. low population means that people in the human/dwarf/mirdain alliances will dominate the game.

2. You would take some of the sand out of the sandbox (you know, the stuff that lets you pick your own destiny i.e. who you associate with/clanmates)

3. Implementing RP would benefit the game, but not if it interferes with the majority of other players...by suddenly thrusting new rules on clans you not only alienate people who like it as is, but you also destroy everything this game has built.

P.s. I know 100% that Av will never ever institute racial alliance clans. It just wont happen.

Lord Zeb
08-07-2010, 22:21
oh god, this is one of the suggestions in this thread that i just cannot back...also about half of the other suggestions in this thread posted by people are complete fail made by people who dont truly understand the workings of the game.


As for having clans that are only one race, that is just horrible and here is why:

1. low population means that people in the human/dwarf/mirdain alliances will dominate the game.

2. You would take some of the sand out of the sandbox (you know, the stuff that lets you pick your own destiny i.e. who you associate with/clanmates)

3. Implementing RP would benefit the game, but not if it interferes with the majority of other players...by suddenly thrusting new rules on clans you not only alienate people who like it as is, but you also destroy everything this game has built.

P.s. I know 100% that Av will never ever institute racial alliance clans. It just wont happen.

1. Population have been quite varied between races anyway, so there is no balancing to be possible. In the beginning, when people actually tried to live in Race-pure alliances as they thought there would be ANY benefit from it, the Alfar actually dominated.

But, this isn't a game about balance between powers, nor is Race-pure alliances about every alliance of every race to combine to strike down an enemy! (For starters, we have enemies in the back to hit us there if we try. ;)) And even IF that would happend... it would be all good anyway. NPC cities cannot be taken so there would always be SOME refugee regardless how bad it would get for a race, and we would have a LOT of fun action in the meantime, as War is part of the game, and can be fun regardless whether one's own side wins or loses.:p


2. No, we are not. Unless they would implement it so that ARAC clans were forbidden by game mechanics. Only implementing an Alignment consequence system for Racial alliances would make it so that ARAC would not be promoted, and there would be benefits belonging to True-Race alliances especially if you lived on the center of Agon, and the people out on the SubContinents could just continue to ignore it and befriend each other regardless of race.

Sand isn't about total freedom of action without consequences. That is Chaos, which breaks down structures (including Sand Castles) of which this is a glaring example: In the beginning there WERE Race Wars and Raiding parties all over Agon. Now, there isn't. The world is growing duller by the month, as there is nothing to do... even taking Cities/Hamlets is moot since it is such a huge and expensive project one rather buy the cities instead. There are the Sea Towers though, but that is not for everyone.

We need more structure, more things to do that one do not have to build oneself from the meager scraps of Sand there exist in DFO. Getting a counter-force for ARAC clans, Racial War-Towers to fight over and getting the Racial Wars started again would create so much content. Structure. Strife. Combat. Action. Fun.


3. There is a reason why there are so few players nowadays. All the Roleplayers left. Many of them are waiting to get back in as soon as there is any sand in the box to play with though... IF this would bring some discomfort to existing players, they WOULD still benefit greatly from the influx of new players... the Roleplayers returning. Everything would be more fun.

And, if they don't like it, there will always be the subcontinents to continue their chaotic ways in. ;) At least if AV have listened to what I have said in the threads in my Sig:

ChinaCat
08-08-2010, 02:44
/edit

3. There is a reason why there are so few players nowadays. All the Roleplayers left. Many of them are waiting to get back in as soon as there is any sand in the box to play with though... IF this would bring some discomfort to existing players, they WOULD still benefit greatly from the influx of new players... the Roleplayers returning. Everything would be more fun.:

There is a relationship between attracting roleplayers and making racial alignment have greater meaning. This has been a difficult topic to discuss and find good solutions that don't hurt the game in the process, but I do believe it is critical. The more a player feels they can take an alternate path from the large clan & alliance direction and develop a community within its race the more players will be turned on to the game and the more roleplaying we'll see, which I am convinced would be awesome for the game.

I know I'll get a lot of heat for this suggestion but I'm just floating it; have not given it a ton of thought. What if one of the consequences of a red race was to become weaker against its race? If one wants to run in a ARAC guild/alliance, not a problem; but if you kill enough of your own race you are not at war with and are red, then you are a meaningful enough disadvantage against a blue player of your race in PvP that it makes a difference. Combine that with making even more difficult to go red to blue and well, there is meaning now to killing your own kind you are not at war with.

Quick Story: In beta I was messing around with my Orc in PvE when over the hill I hear horses; not just a few, but what sounds like many. I really didn't feel like running and had no idea who was approaching so I faced the sound with 2H Axe in hand ready to get it on for good or ill. Over the hill come no less than 20 Dwarves. I gotta tell you, that was one of the funniest deaths I've had in the game. I went down swinging and laughing my ass off.

Should I post this on our main board for feedback?

Bainwalker
08-08-2010, 03:25
There is a relationship between attracting roleplayers and making racial alignment have greater meaning. This has been a difficult topic to discuss and find good solutions that don't hurt the game in the process, but I do believe it is critical. The more a player feels they can take an alternate path from the large clan & alliance direction and develop a community within its race the more players will be turned on to the game and the more roleplaying we'll see, which I am convinced would be awesome for the game.

I know I'll get a lot of heat for this suggestion but I'm just floating it; have not given it a ton of thought. What if one of the consequences of a red race was to become weaker against its race? If one wants to run in a ARAC guild/alliance, not a problem; but if you kill enough of your own race you are not at war with and are red, then you are a meaningful enough disadvantage against a blue player of your race in PvP that it makes a difference. Combine that with making even more difficult to go red to blue and well, there is meaning now to killing your own kind you are not at war with.

Quick Story: In beta I was messing around with my Orc in PvE when over the hill I hear horses; not just a few, but what sounds like many. I really didn't feel like running and had no idea who was approaching so I faced the sound with 2H Axe in hand ready to get it on for good or ill. Over the hill come no less than 20 Dwarves. I gotta tell you, that was one of the funniest deaths I've had in the game. I went down swinging and laughing my ass off.

Should I post this on our main board for feedback?

Yeah I remember the days of seeing racial PVP parties roaming the lands, I was in the all Alfar alliance and we had groups roaming elf and human lands quite often. It was fun playing along with the lore and I'm sad it died out in favor of ARAC

Stone Dog
08-08-2010, 07:56
If u go on a restaurant do u eat the food how the chef makes it or do u want the chef make it like u want it? U say because you pay monthly for this game u think AV is working for u now and that the game should be made how the customers want it. I cant agree with that.

Actually, the waitress takes your order and asks you how you'd like it prepared. I don't buy a steak and then let someone else decide how I want it cooked...I TELL THEM or I take my business elsewhere.

And by the way, if we stop paying them to make their game...they don't have a game. Period.

Navicerts
08-08-2010, 08:26
Aww don't feel blue. AV is a superior mmorpg company to any other imo. :D

natedagreat
08-08-2010, 09:40
@ Lord Zeb

When i said low population I meant in certain races. It is a well known fact that dwaves and Orks are the least played races. (I def know this as i am an ork and let me tell you ork lands is completely barren, and up until about a month ago i was one of 2 orks in my entire alliance).

As for saying "in the beginning there were race wars"

This may be so, but it is mostly because diffusion of the race throughout the server clans hadnt happened yet. You honestly cant expect a bunch of newbie ork/mahirims to be able to pick a clan to join that is not of the same race, because they have no tools in the beginning to do so, no political map...nothing but trade chat or race alliance.


That is the single reason there were so man clans of only one race.

As for av possibly changing it so clans were better off with only one race, that is just absurd at this point because of how much it would mess with the political scene.

A couple of ways it would mess with the political scene:

1.As previously stated population among races is not equal. (as a side note the reason alfar had so many people in the beginning was due to an imbalance, nothing else. (they had the smallest hitbox but equal reach to other races, as well as other well known bugs).

2. The majority of friendships made are not among people of the same race, heck i barely know any orks myself as we are so uncommon.

Going back to your #3. There is not really a low population, and if there was...it sure as hell is not because all the role players left, but i suppose that last part was pure speculation.

Laxe
08-08-2010, 10:49
they should make all races alied and write up some lore like Lineage had,

there wont ever bee race wars in this game without highly limiting players so give it a rest

Nitsua185
08-08-2010, 10:56
Thanks for the update Taoss, KING of all greeks!!

One thing i'd like to add is that I think you guys should REALLY reconsider the way you do patches. I will admit that it's very exciting getting an expansion with tons of stuff in it, but doing just expansions makes the game population like a rollercoaster.

I think it would be better for the population(and the ragers) if you guys would split these large expansions into several patches to keep people interested in the game. As of now, you have tons of people unsubbed or inactive just waiting on more content because they are bored with what they have now. This is turn hurts the people who are currently active because there are less active players in the world. More frequent patches = more happy customers.

Thanks for the update, and please put some thought into your patching schemes.

brainiak
08-08-2010, 11:06
Posts like that makes me want to buy the game, even when I don't have time to play ATM.

Lord Zeb
08-08-2010, 12:20
@ Lord Zeb

When i said low population I meant in certain races. It is a well known fact that dwaves and Orks are the least played races. (I def know this as i am an ork and let me tell you ork lands is completely barren, and up until about a month ago i was one of 2 orks in my entire alliance).

As for saying "in the beginning there were race wars"

This may be so, but it is mostly because diffusion of the race throughout the server clans hadnt happened yet. You honestly cant expect a bunch of newbie ork/mahirims to be able to pick a clan to join that is not of the same race, because they have no tools in the beginning to do so, no political map...nothing but trade chat or race alliance.


That is the single reason there were so man clans of only one race.
No, you are quite wrong.
That is the reason why Newb alliances nowadays have same race clans, not how it was in the beginning.

It took about 3-5 months after the start before clans started to let ARAC elements trickle into their own, as they realised AV weren't implementing any negative aspects of being ARAC, that the whole community earlier were certain they would.

They found that ARAC clans were superior as one could grind Alignment on each other as well as that opponents that fought mixed groups hesitated, as they would get Alignment punishments if they resisted. (Very easy to jump into a swing just so the targets would get Rogue status and be free kills, and then be able to fight freely yourself knowing that the opponent would only be penalised if he killed you.) Apart from the fact that you didn't have to turn recruits away just due to Race.

The change was slow, and the Racial Wars died not because people did not wish to fight them... not because they weren't any fun... but because they ran out of opponents. To fight a Race War, you need to know where you find targets of that race. If clans are mixed and Newb areas dry up (as they did during the Fall 2009) you have no where to go if you are looking for targets.


As for av possibly changing it so clans were better off with only one race, that is just absurd at this point because of how much it would mess with the political scene.
Of course there would be some upheaval as people would need to adapt. But all change is resisted, all transitions feel bad if handled the wrong way, and even good changes feels like bad business to some people.

On the other hand, those who handle these changes well, will come out on top, so it is often better to be part of the solution than work against it.:sly:


A couple of ways it would mess with the political scene:

1.As previously stated population among races is not equal. (as a side note the reason alfar had so many people in the beginning was due to an imbalance, nothing else. (they had the smallest hitbox but equal reach to other races, as well as other well known bugs).
You are quite right.
But, on the other hand, even if we had 10% Orcs & Mahirim vs the rest of the server... if those Orcs & Mahirim were well organized, well grinded, skillfully played, and took the help of some Mercenary clans, they could still rule the server.
Especially if a larger percentage of Orcs than other races were active in the Race Wars instead of doing other things, such as PvE/Crafting or Subcontinent PvP.:sly:

There are a lot of factors involved in the Strength calculations, and the reasons why one side is weaker may differ over time, and is rarely only due to numbers. (A well organized small force can crush a larger force to pieces... especially if you use AoE's on them. ;) Many Elite clans out there nowadays are merely 10-20 members.)

And, if you find yourself on the weaker side, you have to use your wits and rethorical savvy to change the situation. You are few? Recruit more. You are weak? Grind and Equip yourself! You lose combats? Train strategical maneuvers! Your opponents have too much armor? Take their Mines! You loose to Mages? Re-extend into Mage-killers and Destroyers and put on some heavy armor and ride them down!

AV has stated:
Strength imbalances are a part of the game, deal with it.
And they have left us some tools to deal with it.:sly:
ARAC clans were however not supposed to be a major part of that.:bang:


2. The majority of friendships made are not among people of the same race, heck i barely know any orks myself as we are so uncommon.
If people were encouraged to spend time with each other based on Race, more "internal" friendships would evolve.

As it is now, the rarity of Orcs is the reason why you don't know many, as they are spread out. If they were encouraged to gather, there would be same-race orc clans where you could get to know people who play Orcs.

Honestly, if you really wish to, there are even now a few clans that persist clinging to the Racial themes, such as The Horde on EU1 and Ruff-Necks on US1 both are Mahirim & Orc-Race True.

And if the changes I am propagating (http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=206647) for are done, the Race Wars will be optional to the HUGENESS of the DFO world. So, if one do not wish to limit oneself by race, there will be the option to move out to the Subcontinents and be one of the many ARAC clans out there. Then one can play on the relationships one made during the last year instead of Race for Ally-seeking... if one has such relationships, that is.

Hiring ARAC/Red clan mercenaries would still be possible though.:ninja:


Going back to your #3. There is not really a low population, and if there was...it sure as hell is not because all the role players left, but i suppose that last part was pure speculation.
When the game started, people were lining up just to get a play spot.

Now, we don't even have half the population we had at the start, when the game had even more flaws, and it is divided up on 2 servers. (Not to mention that many have multiple accounts.) We are gaining a bit, due to the Trials and marketing done through new sell-spots, but we are still far from the bustle we had in the beginning.

And an important part, is that many of the people that saw DFO as the ideal game due to the Sand Box perspective instead of the Free PvP perspective have found the game lacking, and left. (Some have stayed, but do no longer Roleplay, having been corrupted by the "dark side", keeping themselves busy with PvP.) Me being one of them. (First was corrupted, then left, and I am now trying to find the way back to the light;).)

But, if the game would be improved to be able to house Roleplaying again, (by fixing Alignment & Economy, promoting other playstyles than Grind&PvE to be able to PvP) a lot of people would return. And not only Roleplayers, but also PvPers that would like to experience the Racial Wars (especially after the GUI is redone and if combat dynammics were improved... not to mention they would also gain the benefits of more targets by a larger player base and a functioning Economy so they can focus more on PvP than being self-sufficient).

As my Sig says:

wisdom
08-08-2010, 12:30
Lord Zeb is a jewel in a crown of thorns. Really man, you are too good for this place.

Stone Dog
08-08-2010, 13:42
@ Lord Zeb

I really don't think enough people understand how spot-on you are. I would explain my situation (and that of the guild I was with at EU-1 start-up) but tbh It's 6:39 am and I'd rather shoot the next person that walks through my office door than do any thinking so I'll just say "Here-here!" and leave it at that.

PS - I'm not sure I agree with your stance on taking out bunny-hopping though but I do think that there should be a larger damage penalty associated with it.

Ktorr
08-08-2010, 13:52
Actually, the waitress takes your order and asks you how you'd like it prepared. I don't buy a steak and then let someone else decide how I want it cooked...I TELL THEM or I take my business elsewhere.

This would apply IF the restaurant was serving what you wanted, or are you the type that walks into a Berger King and orders a Big Mac?

foojin
08-08-2010, 14:04
We need a spotlight for EU-1 server issues. Will be a long one though...

Dante Darkfire
08-08-2010, 15:43
What about Actually adding those things in parts in stead of letting us wait another 6 months?? i mean you say you have some things ready and some things almost ready then add em and addthe unfinished shit later in stead of add all at once in a bulk

Stone Dog
08-08-2010, 16:21
This would apply IF the restaurant was serving what you wanted, or are you the type that walks into a Berger King and orders a Big Mac?

I don't order McDonalds' products from Burger King...but I can ask for extra pickles or onions or just a plain burger at either of those places.

And my being here means that THIS "restaurant" IS serving what I want and while I can't change their "menu" I can ask to have what's on that menu tailor made to my preference.

Care to try again?

Saorlan
08-08-2010, 17:16
I just read Lord Zebs post - He has completely got it right - So many of the original players left due to the ARAC element being put in.

I so so wish they would put racial wars in and the the persistent war and lore would be what the inter-clan politics was pinned to.