Darkfall at Womengamers.com

[Tasos]

We had the pleasure of welcoming Ismini 'Atari' Roby from womengamers.com, and Chris to our offices last month. We spent the morning talking about you-know-what.

You can check out the article at womengamers.com (http://www.womengamers.com/interviews/darkfall.php)

[Shaar]

Wow unexpected, thanks!

[Blackie_Chan]

awesome article with a few new nuggets of info...go way points.

also really like that tabards and other things will probably help you quickly id who to attack... i can just see how mages could actually hurt your side easily once the melee starts

[Shaar]

A couple of points I found really interesting:

"Guilds have a number of tools to help organize themselves, including the ability to set up platoons, identify waypoints and utilize map coordinates. On that note, part of the challenge is to coordinate these battles without falling into total chaos."

"The developers also plan to have some interesting physics in the game. A cannonball shot off a ship can not only damage but physically disorient an entire party by blowing them away. Or you could jump off of a big rock and hit someone in the head with an axe causing more damage with the momentum of your fall."

[doma]

Wow! Thanks :)

[FunWithDrugs]

What gamers.com? ;)

[MorkDaOrc]

Very nice

[Sarusan]

So i go with those not good informations here.

"There are approximately 300 skills in this game with prerequisites for certain skills. Some of the easier skills, like swimming, take less time to learn."
I thought they said many times about 500 skills and 500 spells. I think everyone read that and i dont need to bring several quotes here.

Also those two quotes make me a bit worried:

"They know they're catering to a niche market and they're content doing so. And if they don't get a publisher, they are prepared to self-publish to see this vision become a reality."
"Will they pull it off? It's that stubborn streak in them that makes me think that they just might do it. And if they do, it has the potential to be a real gem to the PVP community."

I hope they WILL pull it off, and get some publisher cuz for now, without much advertising and PR many people still think its vaporware..

"They've kept their game fairly low on the PR radar until this year. "Too many MMOs are released before they're ready to go to market," said Associate Producer Tasos Flambouras. "We want the beta to be almost finished before we show it to the world."

Thats good from one point of view.

And last: "When I asked how far along they were with their game, they seemed pretty confident that the engine was almost ready. "We're spending a lot of our efforts tuning the graphics and art assets right now," explained Flambournas. This was particularly encouraging since I was concerned that the screenshots on their web site looked a bit dated."

If the game engine is made allready, the same with world, races and everything: Show us Alfar !!! I dont think graphics are that important so they stop from announcing a beta also. Many mmo's tuned graphics IN beta, changed UI, improved skill effects etc etc. Are graphics and art asset what stops you from beta? I know you want to have everything similar to final product, but here i doubt everything is finished and youre only "tuning the graphics and art assets".

[Atnas]

"There are approximately 300 skills in this game with prerequisites for certain skills. Some of the easier skills, like swimming, take less time to learn."

I thought it was 500.

[Sachem]

Quite a nice report. Something was lost in translation here:The difference between playing other mass-market MMOs and Darkfall will be like having a "McDonald's meal vs the special burger" explains GrovdalIs that maybe the Happy Meal and the Big Mac?

And one of the most interesting news bits, Dualing (sic) other players allows you to increase your weapon skill, and there is no alignment hit for killing a guildmate That is cool.

[Askel]

Nice update! Indeed very unexpected, womengamers.com. I Wonder how man of the people on these forums are women, 0%?:)

[Pavlos]

And they say a picture is worth a thousand words... This article is worth a thousand ork screenshots :D

[Shaar]

So i go with those not good informations here.

"There are approximately 300 skills in this game with prerequisites for certain skills. Some of the easier skills, like swimming, take less time to learn."
I thought they said many times about 500 skills and 500 spells. I think everyone read that and i dont need to bring several quotes here.

You are wrong about that, they said 500 skills in total counting spells as skills. That was 250 skills and 250 spells more or less. So they must have added more skills.

[Teth]

Guilds have a number of tools to help organize themselves, including the ability to set up platoons, identify waypoints and utilize map coordinates.
I see they decided to take a few pages from Planetside's methods of squad organization. Excellent.

[tarsus]

"Guilds can own cities, bind stones and resources (like mines) that will charge outsiders taxes for using them."

This is very interesting. Guilds can sell use of their bind stones to travelers eh? Hm... I wonder what how else they can get a cut from using guild city services heh...

[Sarusan]

And they say a picture is worth a thousand words... This article is worth a thousand ork screenshots :D

Or 2 Alfar screenshots ;)

[cybernegy]

Quite a nice report. Something was lost in translation here:Is that maybe the Happy Meal and the Big Mac?

And one of the most interesting news bits, That is cool.

I think it means playing one of the cookie cutter games out or coming out would be like going to McDonalds and Darkfall will be like an exceptionally good burger, like the one your dad used to grill up at a bbq or like a Big Kahuna burger or something.

[Sarusan]

Btw. Does it mean that there wont be today's WarCry update ? Or this one article is just a kind suprise.

[Vinadil]

Hmm 300 skills is a slight change... but the guild controls and AI sounds like it will be good stuff.

[Shaar]

Hmm 300 skills is a slight change... but the guild controls and AI sounds like it will be good stuff.

Yes it is a change from 250 skills... Don't make me repeat myself dammit :p

[keeperofstars]

NO, they said close to 500 skills AND 500 spells. Each spell a skill itself.

I can drag qutoes up if needed.

Two things to think on, one they told us a while back they had all the skills designed but were still cranking out the code of each. They know how the skill will work and what it does and how it does it and with what calculations, just needed to get in and finish coding them, they told us that about a year ago.

also even if we just have 300 skills at beta doesnt mean we wont have 500 by end of beta / release, and if we get shafted at 300 who cares? its 300 skills better then the 150 skills wow offers if you count every branch of every class tree.

They are redoing the models and I think alfar and elf are the only ones we have not seen of the new models. But they been finishing them one a month. Think about how long it took to see orc then see humans, then came dwarfs, etc. Point is we get to see them in SS when they finish them it seems.

Also they can release this game without a publisher no problems, and honestly I hope they don't get one. publishers just fuck a game over, they set unrealistic deadlines, like hey we think you should release this christmas eventhough the devs have said it needed to be summer next year.

they argue some lawyers get involved the game is released at christmas buggy as hell people hate it and devs rush to get content in. SEE Horizons for example. Atari refused to let them take 6 more months to release so they released early without having flying dragons which was the ONE huge selling point of the game. They also didng have lairs built the other huge selling point. lol. 6 Months after release guess what you had lairs and flying dragons.

[Nalira]

oh wow, an article posted on the forums directly by a dev :eek:

anyhow, its nice to get articles... especially directly from the devs.

[paade]

Yes it is a change from 250 skills... Don't make me repeat myself dammit :p

it was originally 500 skills and 500 spells.

But still 300 is impressive amount too.

[Shaar]

NO, they said close to 500 skills AND 500 spells. Each spell a skill itself.

I can drag qutoes up if needed.

Please do so then cause I have never read anything like that. It was 500 skills and spells, about 50% each when I asked them about it in Gamics.

[Sarusan]

Please do so then cause I have never read anything like that. It was 500 skills and spells, about 50% each when I asked them about it in Gamics.

I thought the same, 500 skills and 500 spells.

HERE YOU GO:
http://rpgvaultarchive.ign.com/features/interviews/darkfall.shtml
8/21/2001

Kjetil Helland: We are hoping to add about 500 skills, and 500 spells to the game by release, so it will be really hard to max out a character. It is possible though.

http://www.gamebanshee.com/interviews/darkfall1.php
9/3/2001
Q: Wow! You guys said you will have 500 spells and 500 skills at release, will all the different skills/spells be unique from each other or will some be needed to perform other skills?

A: They are all unique, ranging from skills that have a huge impact, such as Hide, that make you hard to spot, to lesser skills such as Combat Tactics that just add some bonuses to your attack and defense skills. We also have skill requirements, that work in the same manner as typical skilltrees. Meaning that to learn say Combat Tactics, you need a minimum Axe skill of 80, and a minimum wisdom of say 40. I cant say for sure how each specific requirement will be, as this is obviously something we will have to test for game balance.

[Suitepee]

"What you see is what you get. On that same note, if you fight an orc that's using an axe but then switches to a club, when he dies you will be able to loot both the axe and club off of his body, as well as his armor and the contents of his entire inventory. "

Sweet! :D

Also,I thought Razorwax was their publisher?

This made it all the more amazing that 5 out of the 20 people pulled away from their desks (more like cafeteria tables) to sit in a conference room with me for a good 4 hours or so to talk about their game.

Now that's VERY encouraging.

[BlackVolgan]

pretty cool.

[Drafli]

Keep it coming.....

[Shaar]

Razorwax = Aventurine. They were called Razorwax back in Norway and when they got here they merged with the Greek people of Aventurine. Now its basicaly the same company having 2 names.

[Nalira]

oh wow, an article posted on the forums directly by a dev :eek:

anyhow, its nice to get articles... especially directly from the devs.

EDIT:



They've kept their game fairly low on the PR radar until this year. "Too many MMOs are released before they're ready to go to market," said Associate Producer Tasos Flambouras. "We want the beta to be almost finished before we show it to the world."



does this mean that beta will be coming out relatively "soon" because the PR might be increasing slighty?.. i hope so



Everyone was hard at work, practically on fire, fighting to meet their deadline.



don't you need a deadline set to actually have to fight to meet a deadline?... does this mean that the devs actually have a personal deadline set?:sly:... lets hope this deadline is Tuesday.

[Shaar]

I thought the same, 500 skills and 500 spells.

HERE YOU GO:
http://rpgvaultarchive.ign.com/features/interviews/darkfall.shtml
8/21/2001


http://www.gamebanshee.com/interviews/darkfall1.php
9/3/2001

Yeah well I believe the info I was given a few months ago is more accurate than a 2001 post... ;)

But we have known for a while now that it was 500 skills and spells about half of each. That article just says that they have increased the number of skills to 300 from 250 that it was.

To be perfectly honest though I was wrong about it never having been mentioned before obviously. I admit I never remember reading that article.

[Sarusan]

Yeah i read your article just now, and they told 500 skills where each spell is a skill, however they should read what they told years ago, if they decide to develop Darkfall that many years :p . Anyways, i was convinced that it is 500 skills + 500 spells, im not complaining, i know 300skills+200 spells is much, but i am a bit disappointed tho.

[Kralk]

Why do you need 4 people to talk to one person thats like a quarter of your dev team out of work for half a day! OTher than that minor point its good info. :p

[Exodeus]

i praise all new information but god... what a lousy result for a 4 hour during interview...

[Khael[SUN]]

Actually tell Claus that next time when doing the burger analogy, he should consider using Macdonalds meal vs a "Big Kahuna burger".

Overall a really nice game for women I should think.

Edit.: On a serious note, I actually think it was a well done article.

[ObsiDian_Osiris]

new info ftw

[pureshok]

Sweet thanks for posting this talos, I was a bit disapointed about no manual blocking (still hoping it has a active skill) but adding physics to the game and having AI drops that makes sense more then make up for it. RL physics is going to make my air using pirate awesome. I can't wait to blow enemies off there ships and into the water =)

[Darkmatter]

Thanks Tasos, good read!

[Tasos]

It wasn't specified in the article but the 300 skills mentioned is around what we had implemented and working at the time of the interview. Now there are more. By launch there will be even more and we'll keep adding throughout the game's lifecycle.

[Xile Firebane]

Couple of positives...

We do have decapitation and skull crushing in this game

Everyone was hard at work, practically on fire, fighting to meet their deadline.

[Duplicarius]

do you have an estimate of how many will be ready for beta/launch

[Yuengling.OoB]

It wasn't specified in the article but the 300 skills mentioned is around what we had implemented and working at the time of the interview. Now there are more. By launch there will be even more and we'll keep adding throughout the game's lifecycle.

Badass.

Sounds like the notoriety system is in place and working well? Hopefully...

Anyways, well written Ismini (if you're lurking).

[alfaroverall]

It wasn't specified in the article but the 300 skills mentioned is around what we had implemented and working at the time of the interview. Now there are more. By launch there will be even more and we'll keep adding throughout the game's lifecycle.
DON'T BAN ME FOR QUOTING YOU! Kidding.
Good to hear :D

[Supafroius]

All you people tripping over the skill count are insane. Great update! Best in ages. Screens only give you so much. Now weekly Video updates. Drool...!!

[Metal Wolf]

Aww hell yea!, no alignment hit for killing guildies. I get to say Hi in my prefered way after all.

Great interview some good new info in there.

[Osirus]

great update and good of Tasos to expound upon the skill statement.

[kehmesis]

Wow, that was great. I was expecting the same old "info for newbies", but the article was pretty damn good.

The developers were hesitant to give too much detail on this point, only that there would be some sort of a bounty system in place to get back at offenders.

bind stones and resources (like mines) that will charge outsiders taxes for using them.[/qoute]

[quote]Guilds have a number of tools to help organize themselves, including the ability to set up platoons, identify waypoints and utilize map coordinates.

We've been speculating this for a long time, now we know it's true! I'm getting all wet.

[Ryuji]

Who'd a thunk it.

[r4nge]

woohoo, good stuff

hey, is that a joystick I see on a devs desk?

[Crovax]

Great article. I'm happy to hear about the bounty system and the state of the game.

[Sarusan]

OH my freaking god....im gonna write in caps like all trolls: DID I SEE TASOS REPLYING TO THIS THREAD ??!! Omg, omg, thats like long time since last dev reply to thread ;) More like that plz ;)

[Killuminati]

The last paragraph of the article made me appreciate why they are taking so long to release this great game.

[omnigol]

Damn it, now I'm anticipating this game once again. I was lucky I had forgotten about darkfall for a while.

[LanMandragon]

A couple of points I found really interesting:

"Guilds have a number of tools to help organize themselves, including the ability to set up platoons, identify waypoints and utilize map coordinates. On that note, part of the challenge is to coordinate these battles without falling into total chaos."

"The developers also plan to have some interesting physics in the game. A cannonball shot off a ship can not only damage but physically disorient an entire party by blowing them away. Or you could jump off of a big rock and hit someone in the head with an axe causing more damage with the momentum of your fall."


These were possibly the two greatest quotes ever. Thank you.

[Ankh]

"...you could jump off of a big rock and hit someone in the head with an axe causing more damage with the momentum of your fall."

Now that is pretty fucking awesome.

[Porthios]

Excellent update. I loved it!!! Great job devs. Way to stick to your/my (;)) dream.

[Merrin]

Dualing other players allows you to increase your weapon skill, and there is no alignment hit for killing a guildmate.

Cheap way to level up. I said it after last week's interview, and I'll say it again now. What carebear has infiltrated the DF development team?

Free bibs all around for the fanbois in this thread.

[Niccoli]

Aside from the whole quotes thing about the 500: Tasos already answered, but if you're gonna quote, do it in context:

We are hoping to add about 500 skills, and 500 spells to the game by release, so it will be really hard to max out a character. It is possible though.

Anyway, 300 individual skills is a lot, so it will be interesting to see how they are divided out.

Overall, great update, and thanks for the follow up in the thread Tasos, we like to see you (or any others there at Aventurine) post.

[Niccoli]

Cheap way to level up. I said it after last week's interview, and I'll say it again now. What carebear has infiltrated the DF development team?

Free bibs all around for the fanbois in this thread.

Yeah, cause it totally doesn't make sense that if you beat on your guildie, that you wouldn't get better.

Quit reading into the whole 'dueling' thing so much. The one thing tasos mentioned regarding the 'safe' version was a venue. Doesn't stop you from fighting a friend or clanmate for skill.

You and a clanmate fight = dueling

Some 'venue' that Tasos mentioned, will most likely be a public arena in a main city or something. Whoopdy-fucking-doo. Do you plan on hanging out in the cities?

[Niccoli]

Excellent update. I loved it!!! Great job devs. Way to stick to your/my (;)) dream.


Now if only farming could make it in. :D

I'll take all the rest though, don't get me wrong. Just don't want other things scrapped to make timelines. I can continue waiting. I don't like it, but I will. ;)

[Niccoli]

Or 2 Alfar screenshots ;)

I dunno if I can handle that much in one day. ;) Besides, you know we'll see Mirdain screens long before Alfar. Only because it tortures you more. :D

[omnigol]

"...you could jump off of a big rock and hit someone in the head with an axe causing more damage with the momentum of your fall."

Now that is pretty fucking awesome.

Agreed, that was my favorite part of the article

[Airius Droc]

Edit: double post

[Airius Droc]

I felt compelled to comment on this article.

1) "screenshots on their web site looked a bit dated"

When I read that, I felt like pulling my eyes from their sockets. The impression I was left with was that the author has either little understanding of what this game is about (read: it's not supposed to be overtly shiny!) or that the author felt the graphics sucked and needed to point out to her readers that the graphics wouldn't suck so much in the future. Either way, I just wanted to comment by saying...grow up.

Other than that, I have no complaints about the article and appreciate the author's work and time.

2) This talk about the AI being "like Quake bots" and how it's superior and advanced to other games. I have two concerns about this. The first is that it's important not to over sell this feature, for the purpose of having long term interaction with the community. It may very well turn out that the AI is the best code ever put into a multiplayer game, and I hope it is, but if it's not, or if something fails to meet the expectations of the player base, it won't matter why that is, people will just point back to when you explained how advanced it is.

*btw, I've been hearing how advanced every game's AI is in every game I've ever played. Pac-Man's AI was cutting edge!

I'm also starting to think that the clan centric philosophy of Darkfall may become the major turn-off to this game for people early on, and may lead to retention problems or social instability that produces an unwanted retention byproduct. In other words, some new guy is going to show up and be like "wtf, I don't want to join a clan." Then after he's been ganked 600 times by every player in the world that lock's in on his "no clan" status, he'll either join one or quit.

The AI being described as it is, the typical lone wolf player(don't forget that 99% of your playerbase STARTS as a lone wolf, on day one!) doesn't really have the network or resources and contacts needed to survive in this game (yes I know I've never played the game).

Don't get me wrong, I loved reading the AI information. This is exactly what "I'M" looking for. But on a broader scale, I'd like to hear more about how the average guy that doesn't want to join a clan day one will survive, and what steps you've taken to insure that "THAT GUY" doesn't quit immediately.

If the bounty system works the way it should, with NPC interaction guiding new players on how to take steps to defend themselves either passively or passive-aggressively, then I think this might curve this concern.

Also, if there are built in mechanisms that can be triggered to support less chaotic new player experiences, that too would help to a great degree. Example, you're an Elf (Mirdain) and you get attacked and killed by someone just after installing the game. An NPC representative should come visit you and help you 1) get even, 2) prepare for the next time, 3) understand the Mirdain world you're in, 4) understand your options in this world (join a clan, be a lone wolf, join an npc organization).

You may very well have better ideas and this in place, I just wanted to voice my concerns about the advanced AI's potential to cause retention issues.

*btw - everyone in the world says "guild" inherently instead of clan. It's been 5 years and there's been no headway in this, you might want to follow along. Just a thought.

[Niccoli]

But on a broader scale, I'd like to hear more about how the average guy that doesn't want to join a clan day one will survive, and what steps you've taken to insure that "THAT GUY" doesn't quit immediately.


Well, I think it really depends on what that 'one guy' is looking for. If its to build a city, not gonna happen. If its to be a crafter/merchant, I think there is a lot of potential for it to work. Sure, it might take more blood/sweat/tears for them, but it could be done. So you join a clan run city, as a merchant or crafter and just pay taxes for your shop or whatever, but never actually join the clan. I believe this will be possible.

*btw - everyone in the world says "guild" inherently instead of clan. It's been 5 years and there's been no headway in this, you might want to follow along. Just a thought.

Not everyone, the majority of MMO'ers sure, but not everyone. Most FPS based games, its 'clans' not 'guilds'. I think guild sounds more like a small group of people, typically playing the same role, theives guild, artisans guild, etc. Vs. a clan, which would represent a larger group of people, forming their own society, many different people, with many different roles. Honestly I think clan makes more sense for calling player organizations what they are. Either way, I don't really care what its called, it all means the same thing.

[Airius Droc]

Cheap way to level up. I said it after last week's interview, and I'll say it again now. What carebear has infiltrated the DF development team?

Free bibs all around for the fanbois in this thread.

If the goal is to give people easy ways to "level up" then why not just give them the skills and not have them level them?

Ideally, I'd rather have everyone pay their dues. But bots and macros will give people an out, while players like me slug it out over weeks and months. So if you're going to just give away skills by letting people team up in no risk situations, then why not just give the skills to people and let them play. Then everyone's on the same page, everyone's on the same playing field.

OR...you could make everyone pay their dues and require some kind of risk for the rewards in the game (such as getting better at sword fighting).

[Airius Droc]

I believe this will be possible.

I don't have any doubt that it will be possible. I'll probably do it!

It doesn't matter if it's "possible" if people get mad and leave the game though. You don't get subscription fees from people that quit. ;) So the goal here is to make it difficult to satisfy the hardcore niche audience AS WELL as to make it intuitive to those that may not be as dynamic as others. So if that "guy" has been killed 20 times the first day he played and he has no weapons, no money, and very little to show for his time, what game mechanics help this guy out? What keeps this guy from quitting and canceling his account?

I don't really care what its called, it all means the same thing.

I'd personally rather call it clans. But even I slip up sometimes. Because of this, I think that they should call it guilds so everyone can know what the fuck they're talking about. Again, this is about the average gamer. Just look at this article, she calls them guilds. It happens all the time. Guilds guilds guilds...

[Irodim]

Thanks for that article. It was a good read.

*edit*
I like the idea where thing are triggered based upon players actions. Mobs spawning to make players move out of their "camping" location.

[Figrix Voidstar]

Great and unexpected article ;)

Good info all around, thanks Ismini and womengamers.com!

[Brannoc]

For those asking about the 300 / 500 skills thing; at the time of the interview there were 300 skills finalized, now there are around 400, the plans haven't changed.

[Irodim]

For those asking about the 300 / 500 skills thing; at the time of the interview there were 300 skills finalized, now there are around 400, the plans haven't changed.
That is great to hear! I was wondering about that when I read the article.

[Sarusan]

For those asking about the 300 / 500 skills thing; at the time of the interview there were 300 skills finalized, now there are around 400, the plans haven't changed.

I knew it.. i mean i knew it that those all interviews and updates are taken much before you write about em :p :ninja:

[Shadow Walker2020]

Heres something that bothered me:

Guilds will play an important part. Although they did say there will be neutral cities available for lone wolf players, I got the distinct impression that unguilded players won't get very far in this game. Guilds can own cities, bind stones and resources (like mines) that will charge outsiders taxes for using them.

So, soloists are getting gimped or something? Damn, last I heard, several of the devs were soloists and the game was being geared with soloists in mind. Has this changed? If so, then thats going to be a black eye for DF because I know alot of solo players who are interested in playing this game and hearing something like that would probably deter them.

I know that clans are going to have access to alot more than a soloist, thats the advantage that comes with numbers and such, but to make it so that a solo player doesnt stand a snowballs chance in hell wont be too good for the game.

Someone posted a thread a while ago on the topic of solo players. Heres the link (http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=22149&highlight=solo+players)

[alfaroverall]

For those asking about the 300 / 500 skills thing; at the time of the interview there were 300 skills finalized, now there are around 400, the plans haven't changed.
Thanks for the clarification Brannoc!

[Maglubiyet]

There is alot of good news in it. The AI if they make it as good as this article has mentioned will be amazing.

It also seems like there search for a Publisher at E3 was unsuccessful. Honestly I would rather them publish it themselves, less bullshit from someone who doesnt give a shit.

All in all I am glad we finally got a worthwhile bit of news. Haven't seen so much info from a single article in a long time.

[Malishan]

Cheap way to level up. I said it after last week's interview, and I'll say it again now. What carebear has infiltrated the DF development team?

Free bibs all around for the fanbois in this thread.

Unlike in other games, leveling up is not the entire game, and people that do it through sparring will miss out on things like loot etc. Besides that, its much more carebear to put arbitrary restrictions on how u can or cant gain skill, especially if its to say that you can only gain skill by fighting npcs. Isn't npc fighting part of the carebear resume anyways? I think you have things mixed up a bit.

Besides that, who says sparring will really be any faster than efficient NPC hunting??

[Afgar]

You would think by their names that I might be somewhere in Norway, but actually I was in Athens, Greece

Didn't laugh, women gamers aren't very funny I guess.

Also when Tasos said "you know what" I was really hoping for beta.

And quit crying about the number of skills/spells. Even if it is only 300, that's a lot and you probably won't use more than 250 of them.

[Red-Eye]

Great interview!

The design looks right, the physics seems cool. I just pray everyday that there will not be any lagg or big bugs.

[Leric]

I thought it was 500.


it is

[LanMandragon]

Heres something that bothered me:



So, soloists are getting gimped or something? Damn, last I heard, several of the devs were soloists and the game was being geared with soloists in mind. Has this changed? If so, then thats going to be a black eye for DF because I know alot of solo players who are interested in playing this game and hearing something like that would probably deter them.

I know that clans are going to have access to alot more than a soloist, thats the advantage that comes with numbers and such, but to make it so that a solo player doesnt stand a snowballs chance in hell wont be too good for the game.

Someone posted a thread a while ago on the topic of solo players. Heres the link (http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=22149&highlight=solo+players)


A. Thats not what she said.
B. This is an interpretation
C. Of course its gonna be tougher, but it doesn't mean solo wont be viable.

[Old-Root]

Tasos thanks for the news:D !

[Merrin]

Unlike in other games, leveling up is not the entire game, and people that do it through sparring will miss out on things like loot etc. Besides that, its much more carebear to put arbitrary restrictions on how u can or cant gain skill, especially if its to say that you can only gain skill by fighting npcs. Isn't npc fighting part of the carebear resume anyways? I think you have things mixed up a bit.

Besides that, who says sparring will really be any faster than efficient NPC hunting??

I did not imply players should raise skills by fighting NPCs. The emphasis should be on PvP...against your natural foes. Not sitting safely in your guarded town fighting a clanmate knowing you're not going to lose your gear or take alignment hits. Coupled with not losing gear in a dueling arena this game is taking on a new face that smiles on the anti-PvP crowd.

[Chronos]

Farming skill points on your guildmates isn't going to be the cheapest of methods. You don't get anything from it other than a skill point, and your armor is going to break eventually. Depending on how hard it is to skill up you could go through several sets of gear in the process.

Unless the players are truly afraid of being hunted down outside their walls, I seriously doubt anyone would try to max out a character using this method when they could instead be out in the wild gathering money to resupply their vault in the process of skilling up.

[Brannoc]

Heres something that bothered me:



So, soloists are getting gimped or something? Damn, last I heard, several of the devs were soloists and the game was being geared with soloists in mind. Has this changed? If so, then thats going to be a black eye for DF because I know alot of solo players who are interested in playing this game and hearing something like that would probably deter them.

I know that clans are going to have access to alot more than a soloist, thats the advantage that comes with numbers and such, but to make it so that a solo player doesnt stand a snowballs chance in hell wont be too good for the game.

Someone posted a thread a while ago on the topic of solo players. Heres the link (http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=22149&highlight=solo+players)

The game has never been "geared" for soloists, however that's not to say that playing solo is not a viable avenue unlike in most other mmo's where it's just unheard of.

[Brannoc]

I did not imply players should raise skills by fighting NPCs. The emphasis should be on PvP...against your natural foes. Not sitting safely in your guarded town fighting a clanmate knowing you're not going to lose your gear or take alignment hits. Coupled with not losing gear in a dueling arena this game is taking on a new face that smiles on the anti-PvP crowd.

Last I heard sparring will not be a viable way of attaining a fully ranked character. But I'll look into this.

On the same note I don't expect the dueling process to see a great deal of activity. Why would you agree to duel someone when you can just as easily kill them?

Player A: Hey you! Lets duel! /duel Merrin
Merrin: Piss off. Slash slash dead.

The only time I would think we'll see a great deal of dueling is between clan members practicing tactics in preperation for a raid or to build team work. Which last I heard is basically the intent of the dueling system.

[-Zephyr-]

wow, an actuall very good interview. thanks.

[La Cuspide Scarlatta]

I'm growing old with this game, please hurry and free the world of all the crappy MMO rpgs out there :)

I won't worry about the solo or small groups chances to do well right now, I think this game is so quite different and has a lot more features than the others, that we will have to figure out again what being part of a clan or a small group or being alone in the forest means. Even the use of the word "clan" instead of "guild" can indicate that they mean something different.

Maybe a clan who aims to have success must be larger and more organized? Maybe a clan can be the union of more guilds (such as fighter or mage guilds)? To build a city, mantain an army, conquer land, defend themselves from enemies I think clans probably should be a different reality than guilds, and can include guilds, small groups, merchants, solo crafters or guilds of crafters, and lone wolves.

That been said, I think even small clans can exist, and will have it very difficult if they want to reach the goals of a bigger and well organized clan. But that is logical, dont you think? As it's logical that solo players in the forest must cope with the hard life of being alone. It sounds pretty reasonable to me.

[Raekwon]

The AI being described as it is, the typical lone wolf player(don't forget that 99% of your playerbase STARTS as a lone wolf, on day one!) doesn't really have the network or resources and contacts needed to survive in this game (yes I know I've never played the game).


Wow, 99% of players start off as a lone wolf? It must be really really fun pulling numbers out your ass like that Airius, does it give you pleasure? Hey, why ask when I can try it myself!...

75% of people starting off in DF will be part of a guild from a pervious game and so from almost day one will have a guild tag above their head.

*Quivers from the pleasure he just felt from the friction of the made up numbers being pulled from his ass*

Wow, that was fun Airius, I especially liked the feeling of the tail end of the "5" as it curved its way out of me; thanks for introducing me to your way of life.

[Ultimo]

tho the person giving the interview seems a bit naive, i still enjoyed all the info, it seems we r getting perpetually closer

[Wisperer]

For those asking about the 300 / 500 skills thing; at the time of the interview there were 300 skills finalized, now there are around 400, the plans haven't changed.

Oh ya, no cookie cutter clones in this game :D



I am a little disappointed that you can skill up by dueling. No risk should = no reward.

[Sarusan]

So....no WarCry update this week ?

[Lorak]

So....no WarCry update this week ?

You missing the bloody bald headed man? :D

[La Cuspide Scarlatta]

I am a little disappointed that you can skill up by dueling. No risk should = no reward.

I instead find it normal that you can skill up by dueling. You fight with a mate or with a master (maybe paying him), you train, you spend time at it so you should get better at it. Maybe it will be slower skilling up with dueling or training. I would find it lame if you would train or duel and you received no effect.

It is a thing to balance, the very big downside would be if it were macroable or repetitive (like it was in UO), but, anyway, it is your choice, would you like to train and duel and receive no loot and skill up slower and be more bored, or go out in the exciting wild, risking for a better reward?

As long as it is fun and not boring, I will like it either way. And remember that character skills are not all, there's your personal skills too.

[Unknewn]

Very nice article!

[Sachem]

I wouldn't be surprised if fighting a challenging higher-skilled AI gave faster skill gain than fighting a guildie. Mostly, nothing has changed: Once a guild declares war, the two battling guilds do not take alignment "hits" when killing each other. In other words, you can kill the opposing guild as much as you want while you are warring with them without becoming evil. .... Friendly fire is enabled and there is no radar in the game to show the location of friendly or enemy troops. This challenge makes the outcome of most battles fairly unpredictable. Possibly clan warfare is the reason for some allignment issue adjustments. IMO, "no allignment hit for killing guildies" makes it easier to make war, not necessarily an easy way to gain skills, although that is possible.

[Gotrex]

as someone else pointed out the only problem with dueling skill gain is if it is macroable.

In UO i used to train all my characters melee skills with a friend by just locking the 2 of us in a tower hitting each other with macros healing each other and then leaving UO minimised for however long it took to get to 100%

Having a return to that would create risk free leveling which i dont want.

Maybe put a cap on how high you can learn skills from dueling? So you can spar to a certain skill level but then have to go out into the world

[Leric]

"The developers also plan to have some interesting physics in the game. A cannonball shot off a ship can not only damage but physically disorient an entire party by blowing them away. Or you could jump off of a big rock and hit someone in the head with an axe causing more damage with the momentum of your fall. And unlike many MMOs, the damage is not determined from a dice-based hit system. In Darkfall, damage is calculated in real-time like a first person shooter. "

........................................ ............... i just got a hard-on

[Stormsblade]

"The developers also plan to have some interesting physics in the game. A cannonball shot off a ship can not only damage but physically disorient an entire party by blowing them away. Or you could jump off of a big rock and hit someone in the head with an axe causing more damage with the momentum of your fall. And unlike many MMOs, the damage is not determined from a dice-based hit system. In Darkfall, damage is calculated in real-time like a first person shooter. "

........................................ ............... i just got a hard-on

QFT, decent update.

[Irodim]

as someone else pointed out the only problem with dueling skill gain is if it is macroable.

In UO i used to train all my characters melee skills with a friend by just locking the 2 of us in a tower hitting each other with macros healing each other and then leaving UO minimised for however long it took to get to 100%

Having a return to that would create risk free leveling which i dont want.

Maybe put a cap on how high you can learn skills from dueling? So you can spar to a certain skill level but then have to go out into the world
You gain character skill that way but not much player skill. So you go out to fight with 10 maxed skills but don't know how to use them. What good does that do? Keep in mind items and skills are not the deciding factor in PvP they are only there to tilt it in your favor.

[Nasty]

And if they don't get a publisher, they are prepared to self-publish to see this vision become a reality.

what, i thought this was sorted when aventurine was formed

[Sarmatian]

Is this the friday "update"? Oh well. Low Expectations ftw.

[TheAntilionX]

GOD Finally got some decent material i like several points of the interview


As for how the combat looks, you can see physical bleeding and armor decay as you beat someone down. "We do have decapitation and skull crushing in this game," says Oren smiling

A cannonball shot off a ship can not only damage but physically disorient an entire party by blowing them away.

i going to be stick to that cannon blowing the shit out of the enemy clan :sly: :sly:

Monsters and creatures do not have levels either. They simply get tougher the farther you walk out of the newbie areas. The only way to know whether you can take them out is to try it. And unlike certain MMOs where you can find platemail on a rat, Darkfall will have none of that. What you see is what you get. On that same note, if you fight an orc that's using an axe but then switches to a club, when he dies you will be able to loot both the axe and club off of his body, as well as his armor and the contents of his entire inventory

is cool about that i mean you can go with a buddy and kill thousands of monsters and have thousands of stuff no to metion the advance AI of the monster now that will be a challenge and i like challenges

[pureshok]

as someone else pointed out the only problem with dueling skill gain is if it is macroable.

In UO i used to train all my characters melee skills with a friend by just locking the 2 of us in a tower hitting each other with macros healing each other and then leaving UO minimised for however long it took to get to 100%

Having a return to that would create risk free leveling which i dont want.

Maybe put a cap on how high you can learn skills from dueling? So you can spar to a certain skill level but then have to go out into the world

No thats a stupid idea because then that means you are FORCED to go fight mobs to lv up. If I want to never fight a mob and lv up purely on killing people I should be able to. Besides there are no safe zones in DF so that would never happen.

[alfaroverall]

No thats a stupid idea because then that means you are FORCED to go fight mobs to lv up. If I want to never fight a mob and lv up purely on killing people I should be able to. Besides there are no safe zones in DF so that would never happen.
You're not forced to fight mobs to level up. If you pvp (non-duel, out in the world where you can be killed and looted) you get skill the same way. Dueling should have nerfed skill gain in some sort (50% speed, a cap on how far it can go, etc.) because there's no risk, if it has any.

[Elix]

This seemed more like a quick synopsis of Darkfall rather than an update. Though the overall quality of the interview was good, it was obvious that the interview(s) didn't know much about Darkfall. Read it anyway.

[V1RUS]

Awesome interview. Several good points which have already been mentioned in several other posts. However I don't see why some people are getting bent out of shape for being able to level up skills by training with guildies. Aren't they making this game more life-like? I know damn well if me and my buddy go out into my backward with two sticks and "sword fight" each other for hours on end we would eventually be more skilled in melee fighting. Same goes for going out to the range to practice my bow skills. But you few argue that I should have to go out and actually hunt something to get better? All I have to say is roffle.

The only thing that concerns me is the "no alignment hits against guild members". Sure this will bring plenty of fun when we are over vent talkin shit and want to piss each other off with a sword to the chest, but what if some guildie tweaks out and unexpectedly starts killing individual clanmates and stealing their shit without the worry of going evil for doing so? Sure we can kill him back, but there can easily be moments where he could also get away with it (only once obviously).

Edit: Awesome to see the devs giving feedback in this thread. Would like to see more of this :) Thank you Brannoc and Tasos

[LanMandragon]

Sure we can kill him back, but there can easily be moments where he could also get away with it (only once obviously).



I think the response would be "deal with it"

[La Cuspide Scarlatta]

The only thing that concerns me is the "no alignment hits against guild members". Sure this will bring plenty of fun when we are over vent talkin shit and want to piss each other off with a sword to the chest, but what if some guildie tweaks out and unexpectedly starts killing individual clanmates and stealing their shit without the worry of going evil for doing so? Sure we can kill him back, but there can easily be moments where he could also get away with it (only once obviously).

That is called betrayal :)

[reece]

"Helland explained that the AI in the game would be far more advanced than what gamers are used to seeing in other MMOs. "The AI mimicks players as much as possible," he said, "like Quake bots.""

wooooow. ammmmaaazing. just what i need in a PVP game.
its like playing quake offline - WITH BOTS. i cant wait to fight those amazing mobs and guards. will be extremely funny and adrenaline pushing.


"The AI is also smart enough to notice when people are camping spawns. In-game events can be triggered to stir things up, encouraging parties to continue exploration rather than stay in one spot. "

yeah taking shadowbanes twinking orgies and specc groups to a new lvl. a new stage of multiple client and necessary bot-programming skills.
awesome. more of that. can i program my bots to attack a city for me while i jerk off? that would be cool.


the only positive statement in the whole interview:
"Or you could jump off of a big rock and hit someone in the head with an axe causing more damage with the momentum of your fall."
i really like that :)


"In fact, if your rather just crack people's skulls open all day and you really hate PVE (or player-vs-environment), you can level entirely from PVP in this game. Dualing other players allows you to increase your weapon skill, and there is no alignment hit for killing a guildmate. "


uhm....so if i see this right.....on the one hand they say i dont have to pve but on the other hand therer are bots who fight for players. what? so if i dont like to pve i rather log out and play a real pvp game or what do they suggest me to do?

and those duels again....who the fuck needs a fucking duel system.....boooooring, kindergarten.
i see it not only as a system to prevent conflicts between guildmates, i also see all those kids running up to me, clicking on the duel button instead of challenging me with words.
what is nicier than a fair fight...implement a countdown timer and some supermario music for the winner and its perfect.
less playerinteraction and more system mechanics is exactly what we need in a pvp game.

really....im getting sick and i really start questioning the intelligence of the devs.
seems like they get owned by their own gamemechanics and that they start to change their concept more and more for casual players and sb-wannabes like they are.

[Malishan]

Get a grip, the dueling system is not the end of the world, and neither is sparring to gain skill.

[Irodim]

Get a grip, the dueling system is not the end of the world, and neither is sparring to gain skill.
QFT

People will just hurt themselves sparing against eachother to gain skill.

[Narayan]

"Helland explained that the AI in the game would be far more advanced than what gamers are used to seeing in other MMOs. "The AI mimicks players as much as possible," he said, "like Quake bots.""

uhm....so if i see this right.....on the one hand they say i dont have to pve but on the other hand therer are bots who fight for players. what? so if i dont like to pve i rather log out and play a real pvp game or what do they suggest me to do?

Let me put it this way, get a seeing-eye dog.

[V1RUS]

I think the response would be "deal with it"

That is called betrayal

I'm not saying that betrayal shouldn't be possible, I'm saying that it is pretty lame that betraying your guild wouldn't cause your alignment to move at all.

[DialM4Monkey]

its to alleviate the annoyance of always killing your own guildmates in a guildwar with aoe and such. Also, I guess they expect guilds to police themselves. Be careful who you accept and such.

[Skiptag]

I like the dueling system, but of course youll have people who spam: LF DUELING PARTNER TO LVL SWORD SKILL!!

[illicit]

"

uhm....so if i see this right.....on the one hand they say i dont have to pve but on the other hand therer are bots who fight for players. what? so if i dont like to pve i rather log out and play a real pvp game or what do they suggest me to do?

and those duels again....who the fuck needs a fucking duel system.....boooooring, kindergarten.
i see it not only as a system to prevent conflicts between guildmates, i also see all those kids running up to me, clicking on the duel button instead of challenging me with words.
what is nicier than a fair fight...implement a countdown timer and some supermario music for the winner and its perfect.
less playerinteraction and more system mechanics is exactly what we need in a pvp game.

really....im getting sick and i really start questioning the intelligence of the devs.
seems like they get owned by their own gamemechanics and that they start to change their concept more and more for casual players and sb-wannabes like they are.

Wtf!? I really hope you were drunk or stoned when you spewed forth this bs? Otherwise...

Wow, you really are an idiot.

[reece]

i am mature enough to organise a duel with another player without the need of any duel system.

this makes me obviously an idiot.



i dont like to fight against npcs nor having a npc by my side.
also...i dont want to waste my time with organising some stupid bots to lvl for me in different spawnpoints. This whole idea is retardet. People will not be present ingame anymore. To target and kill players who collect ressources is what keeps a pvp-mmorpg running.
I am talkign about player interaction. Responsability. Accountability. And taking things in your own hand to be able to compete.

I see those elements completely destroyed.
I see that the devs are constructing a system to allow guilds to build cities and equip their members without really having to face any pvp situations if they dont want to. They dont even have to protect their own city against other players. What "hardcore pvp game" is that which allows any dumb noob carebear zerg guild to build up a healthy economy and city without having to face any real fight until .......DA BANE.


imho its just a matter of time till they announce that they implemented a system which prevent players to climb up city walls. A miracle paste which you can glibber at your walls or something like that. And it will be very expansive for balance issues ofcourse.

[Lorak]

Since your from Germany I assume English isn't your first language.

You completly misread the quote where he was talking about BOTS.

He was not talking about player bots. He was saying that the AI of the mobs in DF will be on par with the computer controlled enemies in FPS's like Quake.

In other words they shouldn't just stand there doing nothing while you walk up to them and beat on them. They should activly react to a players presence and hunt the player.

[reece]

yep. i thought they implemented bots for camping the spawnpoints....encouraging the players to move on.

which luckily isnt the case.......yet.
but.....there will be implemented bots which mine ressources for you.
there will be npcs and guards which will fight with you.

so....they are not far away from implementing bots to even camp mobspawns.




anyway...maybe english isnt my first language but i do know what an AI is. thank you very much for your patience *cough*

[Irodim]

I'm not saying that betrayal shouldn't be possible, I'm saying that it is pretty lame that betraying your guild wouldn't cause your alignment to move at all.
Who says you are betraying a good alignment clan/guild? You are causing bad alignment with the clan/guild you are betraying.

[V1RUS]

Betrayal is still doing an "evil" deed, such as killing those of your own race or alliance, whether your guild is evil or not. A guild would be just a small group of people within your race and racial alliance(s), so again why would killing them not give an alignment hit?

its to alleviate the annoyance of always killing your own guildmates in a guildwar with aoe and such. Also, I guess they expect guilds to police themselves. Be careful who you accept and such.

What is the point of having friendly fire then? I understand what you're saying, but I would think with a pvp game like DF players should have to revise their strategy if they are having problems killing teammates during war. Its all a part of the whole "player skill" system. With no guilded alignment hits, I just think it adds to the carebear aspect in this friendly fire area. A guild would also have to watch their members with or without the alignment hits being there or not. Sure it wouldn't be as common with alignment hits in, but I still highly believe a player's alignemnt should lower for attacking guildies. Its not like its needed for friendly fights or anything (hence the duel system they put in for that).

[WonderBrick]

The emphasis should be on PvP...against your natural foes. Not sitting safely in your guarded town fighting a clanmate knowing you're not going to lose your gear or take alignment hits. Coupled with not losing gear in a dueling arena this game is taking on a new face that smiles on the anti-PvP crowd.
I think of this type of dueling arena as more of a school for those that need to learn to pvp. If they decide to live in the arena their entire DF lives, that is their choice to live a sheltered DF life. But if it encourages people to raise their skill and then join the battlefield, then that makes me happy. Some games, like UO, have little in the way of teaching players how to succeed at pvp. Arenas = pvp school, imo.

[WonderBrick]

as someone else pointed out the only problem with dueling skill gain is if it is macroable.

In UO i used to train all my characters melee skills with a friend by just locking the 2 of us in a tower hitting each other with macros healing each other and then leaving UO minimised for however long it took to get to 100%

Having a return to that would create risk free leveling which i dont want.

Maybe put a cap on how high you can learn skills from dueling? So you can spar to a certain skill level but then have to go out into the world
I think it is going to be hard to prevent risk-free macroing, unless some hardcore anti-macroing code is added. Such code would have to specificly prevent you from gaining skill from a certain opponant beyond the first initial skillpoints gained(ouch), or outright cap max skill gained from pvp(not going to happen).

[WonderBrick]

(regarding macroing skill on an alt char)
You gain character skill that way but not much player skill. So you go out to fight with 10 maxed skills but don't know how to use them. What good does that do? Keep in mind items and skills are not the deciding factor in PvP they are only there to tilt it in your favor.
I agree.

Getting skills to acceptable levels is just a small hurdle to get past to get into the pvp and game itself. The first time you master a skill manually = fun. 10th time = not so fun. Like many, I want to get to the heart of the game, which is gameplay, not skillgain. I like that skillgain sounds like it might be less tedious and more fun. But skillgain is still skillgain and an obstacle to my goal. To me, DF is about the fights and interactions with others, not who or what I have to fight to gain skill.

[Irodim]

Betrayal is still doing an "evil" deed, such as killing those of your own race or alliance, whether your guild is evil or not. A guild would be just a small group of people within your race and racial alliance(s), so again why would killing them not give an alignment hit?

I don't want to twist your words but what I get from that is you want people to take an alignment hit whenever they kill their own alliance? I am not going to say anything else until you tell me if I understood your correctly.


What is the point of having friendly fire then? I understand what you're saying, but I would think with a pvp game like DF players should have to revise their strategy if they are having problems killing teammates during war. Its all a part of the whole "player skill" system. With no guilded alignment hits, I just think it adds to the carebear aspect in this friendly fire area. A guild would also have to watch their members with or without the alignment hits being there or not. Sure it wouldn't be as common with alignment hits in, but I still highly believe a player's alignemnt should lower for attacking guildies. Its not like its needed for friendly fights or anything (hence the duel system they put in for that).
Carebear because it doesn't give you alignment hit? First off that term is over used and lost all meaning to me and probably many others. Second, and I have said this before, alignment in the first place puts restrictions on the "full pvp" aspect of the game.

But think of it like this; if someone IRL were in a war and did a bombing run with bad cords. and accidentaly had friendly fire do you think they would be punished or would the people higher up who gave him the commands be punished? Or even just said that miss communication led to this to put the blame on essentially no one.

What you propose is a less complicated system but to behonest if there wasn't a forgive system then many people at the start who participate in small skirmishes will be getting negative alignment because their aim is not good so there maybe a lot of negative alignment heading their way.

[Sir Mevan]

I'm not really statisfied with this update. A lot of info was already known.

[DialM4Monkey]

What is the point of having friendly fire then? I understand what you're saying, but I would think with a pvp game like DF players should have to revise their strategy if they are having problems killing teammates during war. Its all a part of the whole "player skill" system. With no guilded alignment hits, I just think it adds to the carebear aspect in this friendly fire area. A guild would also have to watch their members with or without the alignment hits being there or not. Sure it wouldn't be as common with alignment hits in, but I still highly believe a player's alignemnt should lower for attacking guildies. Its not like its needed for friendly fights or anything (hence the duel system they put in for that).


Well to me at least, just because I don't take an alignment hit for killing my guildmates doesn't mean that I am gonne be firing off big spells all willy nilly wihtout aiming. Why? Because If I kill a teammate, then he lost his gear and has to run back from who knows where to get back to the fight. He is gonna be pretty pissed at me. Not to mention that I'm weakening the whole guilds effort so they're all gonna get pissed if I do it a lot. I would probably be kicked out of the guild. Plenty of reasons.

[Skiptag]

Well to me at least, just because I don't take an alignment hit for killing my guildmates doesn't mean that I am gonne be firing off big spells all willy nilly wihtout aiming. Why? Because If I kill a teammate, then he lost his gear and has to run back from who knows where to get back to the fight. He is gonna be pretty pissed at me. Not to mention that I'm weakening the whole guilds effort so they're all gonna get pissed if I do it a lot. I would probably be kicked out of the guild. Plenty of reasons.

Agreed, of course, this wont stop people from slaughtering as many guildies as they can if they decide they hate the guild.

[V1RUS]

I don't want to twist your words but what I get from that is you want people to take an alignment hit whenever they kill their own alliance? I am not going to say anything else until you tell me if I understood your correctly.

I know that if you kill somebody in your alliance (for example, I'm werewolf killing another werewolf or orc), you will take an alignment hit. What I was trying to get to is that since it DOES in fact give you an alignment hit I would think it would do it for guilded allies too.

As for the carebear, yes I think it is :p , just my personal view on it.

You give a good example with the bombing run, but it can work vice versa also. There are people IRL who accidently kill a friend/relative/whatever and that person can end up in jail. So it really depends on the situation when talking of real life events.

Well to me at least, just because I don't take an alignment hit for killing my guildmates doesn't mean that I am gonne be firing off big spells all willy nilly wihtout aiming. Why? Because If I kill a teammate, then he lost his gear and has to run back from who knows where to get back to the fight. He is gonna be pretty pissed at me. Not to mention that I'm weakening the whole guilds effort so they're all gonna get pissed if I do it a lot. I would probably be kicked out of the guild. Plenty of reasons.

I never said that having alignment hits would allow teammates to spam AoE spells, careless of their teammates. I know there are still consequences to killing teammates accidently, with or without alignment hits. I play Counter-Strike mostly in servers with FF on. Unless I'm playing strictly with my clan, I enjoy servers that allow you to choose what you like to do with those who TK you. If I ever kill a teammate I expect to be punished (slayed, beacon'd, blinded, drugged, set on fire, etc), and usually am.

In the end I guess its simply a matter of preference among those playing. In all games, not just DF, I would rather play with FF on but with consequences for killing your teammates, accidental or on purpose. I guess I'm also going with the idea that good alignment was to be difficult to achieve, which I like.

[Irodim]

I know that if you kill somebody in your alliance (for example, I'm werewolf killing another werewolf or orc), you will take an alignment hit. What I was trying to get to is that since it DOES in fact give you an alignment hit I would think it would do it for guilded allies too.

Try thinking of it like this. When you join a clan you sign an unspoken agreement that you trust everyone in that guild to the point where if they TK you, you will forgive them. Through the laws of the race if you make that agreement they will not look down upon that but let the group deal with it on their own since it does not effect anyone outside of that orginization.



You give a good example with the bombing run, but it can work vice versa also. There are people IRL who accidently kill a friend/relative/whatever and that person can end up in jail. So it really depends on the situation when talking of real life events.

The difference between my example and yours is that I use a military view point while yours reflects the effects of a pedestrians actions. Relating to my statement earlier in this post I would say that your actions were done outside of the clan onto another player of the same alliance you would indeed take a alignment hit because that would effect players outside of your group.

I can rephrase that example if it does not make sense.

[Sachem]

I'd just like to comment with a very restricted aim. It's a good discussion and I don't want to stop it or derail any of the good ideas people are expressing, but first we need to realize the limits of a reporter taking down comments from a group of people.

No allignment hit from killing a clansman - OK, what is the allignment hit from just wounding a clansman? Is it the same as for a non-clansman?

In war, people will be hit by friendly fire after many hits from enemies. And, what if the major allignment hit comes from killing?

If a guy falls on the ground and lies there for a while, why would it matter if an enemy finished him off (no allignment hit in war) or a clansman?

Just stuff to consider, in this discussion.

[Kietharr]

I see they decided to take a few pages from Planetside's methods of squad organization. Excellent.

But they didn't say if we could draw pretty pictures on squad/platoon maps :(. If they do, this game will truely be the best ever.

[V1RUS]

No allignment hit from killing a clansman - OK, what is the allignment hit from just wounding a clansman? Is it the same as for a non-clansman?

In war, people will be hit by friendly fire after many hits from enemies. And, what if the major allignment hit comes from killing?

If a guy falls on the ground and lies there for a while, why would it matter if an enemy finished him off (no allignment hit in war) or a clansman?

For the first point, I don't think it depends on the killing blow, but of a percent of damage done as to how much of a "hit" the player's alignment takes.

Second kinda falls into what I stated above.

Third point, thank you for pointing that out. I completely forgot about the no alignment hit during war for the enemy side. So, it would be pretty dumb to have an alignment hit on your allies during war.

Try thinking of it like this. When you join a clan you sign an unspoken agreement that you trust everyone in that guild to the point where if they TK you, you will forgive them. Through the laws of the race if you make that agreement they will not look down upon that but let the group deal with it on their own since it does not effect anyone outside of that orginization.

The difference between my example and yours is that I use a military view point while yours reflects the effects of a pedestrians actions. Relating to my statement earlier in this post I would say that your actions were done outside of the clan onto another player of the same alliance you would indeed take a alignment hit because that would effect players outside of your group.

I understand thats how it is going to work. I'm just saying that I don't agree with it and would rather have it differently for reasons stated in previous posts.

For the second point, my response tends to fall into what I said to Sachem's third point (no alignment hit during war). In times of war, I can see why now there would be no alignment hit. However, when outside of war I think it should fall under that "pedestrian action" category and not the military view.

[Zerikin Loukbel]

Guilds have a number of tools to help organize themselves, including the ability to set up platoons, identify waypoints and utilize map coordinates. On that note, part of the challenge is to coordinate these battles without falling into total chaos. Friendly fire is enabled and there is no radar in the game to show the location of friendly or enemy troops. This challenge makes the outcome of most battles fairly unpredictable.

Now thats what I'm talking about!

[Satan]

im surprised that women can run a website

[Nasty]

And if they don't get a publisher, they are prepared to self-publish to see this vision become a reality.

how come nobody pays any fucking attention to this?

since when did they not have a publisher again? i thought forming aventurine solved all that..