Ultimate view mode poll

[Shadow Walker2020]

The past polls on this topic seemed to lack enough choices when it came to what players perfered when it came to view mode. There was one poll that came close, but it closed.

So here it is. Vote away.

[Sarusan]

Would be nice to add some poll eh ? :D

[Shadow Walker2020]

Would be nice to add some poll eh ? :D


Try waiting a few minutes and actually give people time to set up the poll.

[Mr. Black]

I voted for manually toggleable view mode, but it should have said all of the above too.

Players should get to choose their view mode. It more fair that way.

This isnt the ultimate poll on view modes. A real ultimate poll would have let posters choose more than one option.

[Mordhak]

First person for range, turd for melee. I like it best that way.

[Senthryse]

I voted for manually toggleable view mode, but it should have said all of the above too.

Players should get to choose their view mode. It more fair that way.

This isnt the ultimate poll on view modes. A real ultimate poll would have let posters choose more than one option.

I'll have to disagree there. I want everyone walking around in 1st person PoV untill they enter combat then scans out to 3rd person....otherwise everyone who runs around will be in 3rd person PoV and then no one can sneak up and backstab....kinda defeats the whole purpose of 1 skill area.

[Agge]

I want it something like oblivion, just make it soo that you only see terrain behind your char though when in third person soo the sneakers can still sneak up behind ya. (scroll to get into third person and scroll moor to see farther away)

[Crovax]

I'll have to disagree there. I want everyone walking around in 1st person PoV untill they enter combat then scans out to 3rd person....otherwise everyone who runs around will be in 3rd person PoV and then no one can sneak up and backstab....kinda defeats the whole purpose of 1 skill area.
I doubt anyone could react fast enough to get away if the guy is close enough for you to see him behind you in third person.

[Mr. Black]

I doubt anyone could react fast enough to get away if the guy is close enough for you to see him behind you in third person.


Exactly. Also, the view mode is going to be tight third person, so youll still be able to sneak up on other players. If you want 100% chance of sneaking up on people, use invisibility potions or scrolls.

Even in third person you wont be able to see behind you. Take a look at the recent screen shots. Third person screen shot (http://mediaviewer.ign.com/ignMediaPage.jsp?media_id=3836604&object_id=16821&channel_id=227&page_title=Darkfall+Media+%233&adtag=network%3Dign%26size%3D468x60%26ch annel%3Drpgvault%26site%3Drpgvault_hub%2 6channel%3Dfeatures%26type%3Dpartner) You cant see behind the guy. Sneaks will have time and room to get the jump on players.

[Synune]

I'll have to disagree there. I want everyone walking around in 1st person PoV untill they enter combat then scans out to 3rd person....otherwise everyone who runs around will be in 3rd person PoV and then no one can sneak up and backstab....kinda defeats the whole purpose of 1 skill area.


i like your points here...but the whole bs thing wont be an issue. Who knows what stealth skills and such will be available to the user. I think it should be completely optional.

Like a smart camera mode. Picks the msot optimal view for whatever situation. ofcourse you can tweek some options ...have it switch as you please etc... i personally like the idea of it staying in 3rd eprson with differnt degrees of zoom etc..i want to see how cool my character looks...not his hands...

[NewRage]

I prefer to use FPV the entire time. For what the game allows, as long as I can be in FPV I'm happy.

[Balicus]

I thinking being able to switch between each view is best, this way each player can fit their view to their perfered play style.

[kehmesis]

I'm for a toggle mode, but if there is a 3rd person view at all, which there is, I hope for it to be a static shoulder view similar to first person. I don't want anyone to be able to play with the camera in order to get weird (unfair) angle views.

I know it's not unfair if everyone has it, but it would ruin a lot of gameplay strategy.

Furthermore, I'm really against the current set-up, though I'll live with it, because range/magic characters will have to run around with a melee weapon to benifit from the 3rd person view, and then switch to cast a spell or shoot an arrow. That's dumb.

[Ariana Rose]

I like the option to toggle the view mode. I like to be able to see my character in their environment.

[Suitepee]

A manually toggleable view mode.

But I'll happily adjust to the current TPV/FPV thing. I'll just have my weapon out a lot in the open area to see the TPV sights. :D

[HoE-AmelsChosen]

I would have voted toggable a week ago but after the recent discussion on it a few good points were brought up thats made me go with the announced choice

points such as it being more easier to figure out whether youre being atacked by ranged or melee and which direction from while in TPV

[Raybur Ravenloc]

if we have to include TPV at all.. i'd rather go with FPV ranged and toggleable melee.... i hate TPV...

[ChAoTiChElL]

woot i'm the only one to vote for 3rd person range, and 1st melee.
but i wouldn't mind going 1st the whole time but in other rpgs i've grown to like the 3rd person range

[Shadow Walker2020]

A manually toggleable view mode.

But I'll happily adjust to the current TPV/FPV thing. I'll just have my weapon out a lot in the open area to see the TPV sights. :D

True, you could do that. However, since your bascially doing the same thing anyway, it might be simpler to make the view mode toggleable rather than have everyone having to walk around with their weapons drawn constantly.

[weir]

It would only make sense for them to let you choose.

[Ditto]

Give a person control over the camera and let them choose. This fixed camera idea kills most games for me. If I can't toggle the camera to get the best possible view, I move to a game where I can.

Screw realism. I get enough of that at work.

[Shadowcreep]

I would like for it to always be FPV for ranged and TPV for melee, but if there's an option for TPV whenever, I'm going to always be in TPV. Higher advantage in combat.

[Shadow Walker2020]

It would only make sense for them to let you choose.

Couldn't agree more.

[Old-Root]

Third person is the best view for a RPG of any kind.:) :)

[alfaroverall]

if we have to include TPV at all.. i'd rather go with FPV ranged and toggleable melee.... i hate TPV...
Agreed.

[Helgeran]

Third person is the best view for a RPG of any kind.:) :)

No, first person view give you a much more immense feeling of being the character.

[The Higgins]

1st for range, 3rd for melee. However, the 3rd should be really limited to prevent players from seeing things that they shouldn't be able to. If the camera is back too far, you'll be able to see people sneaking up behind you as well as use it to look around corners and over hills, etc.

EDIT:

BTW, 1st person isn't realism unless you have tunnel vision

[Shadow Walker2020]

No, first person view give you a much more immense feeling of being the character.


First person may be immersive for you, but people's sense of immersion is different. So when you say that its more immersive, you can only speak for yourself.

[Shadow Walker2020]

I'll have to disagree there. I want everyone walking around in 1st person PoV untill they enter combat then scans out to 3rd person....otherwise everyone who runs around will be in 3rd person PoV and then no one can sneak up and backstab....kinda defeats the whole purpose of 1 skill area.

Take a look at the screen shots some time. Its a tight third person view mode. Youll still be able to sneak up on people with no problem. That is unless they hear your foot steps. Then your screwed. It wont be the third person that gives you away, it will be the sensory cues.

[Shyhalu]

First person may be immersive for you, but people's sense of immersion is different. So when you say that its more immersive, you can only speak for yourself.

That is bullshit. It goes against pure logic that a person can be immersed and actually feel as if he is the character when he is staring at the back of him all day long.

People who say they do are either lying because they can't handle FPV and have no awareness or they have no clue to what immersion is.

Its simple, Full FPV is a challenge and since today's gamers want everything handed to them on silver platter and demand instant gratification to the point where games are dumbed down to the simplest of things, FPV will never happen. Too many people are pussies.

Take a look at the screen shots some time. Its a tight third person view mode. Youll still be able to sneak up on people with no problem. That is unless they hear your foot steps. Then your screwed. It wont be the third person that gives you away, it will be the sensory cues.

So what about the guy hiding around the corner/wall using TPV to get an unfair advantage on his victim?
Not a single TPV supporter has given a logical soltuion to it that doesn't involve putting a nice amount of stress/work on the client (Which is abuseable by third parties) or the server to constantly keep track of what everyone can see.

Have you read the latest article on stealth? They mentioned nothing on disappearing and hintde that we wil have to use the environment to hide....which gives us rason to believe there will be a decent amount of objects to hide behind, giving a beter opportunity to exploit the LOS.

Oh by the way, how is your house doing? Any big bad nasty guilds come by today? :lmao:

[Shadow Walker2020]

That is bullshit. It goes against pure logic that a person can be immersed and actually feel as if he is the character when he is staring at the back of him all day long.

You cannot speak for everyone, therefore, you are speaking from a position of bias. You believe that first person is more immersive because it is immersive for you. But, this is merely your belief. Everyone has a different sense of perception and immersion. Immersion is somthing that occurs in a persons mind when exposed to certain stimuli. How this is triggered depends on the person and differes from person to person, not what you believe to be true. Pure logic would tell you this, if you had any.

People who say they do are either lying because they can't handle FPV and have no awareness or they have no clue to what immersion is.

Who are you to make such an accusation? Your not in other people's minds. You do not know how they think or perceive things. What proof do you have that those who claim that they find third person immersive are lying?

[Shadow Walker2020]

Its simple, Full FPV is a challenge and since today's gamers want everything handed to them on silver platter and demand instant gratification to the point where games are dumbed down to the simplest of things, FPV will never happen. Too many people are pussies.

Again, your coming from a bias position, as exampled by your less than intelligent responce. What is a challenge depends on the person. You cannot say that First person offeres the "Ultimate challenge". There are those who find first person to be a very easy mode to work with. If you ever played Halo on line, youd know this. But you obviously havent.

It is true that there are those who do find first person to be a challenge. And, with a toggleable view mode, they will be able to have that challenge, while those who prefer to play in third person will also be able to have their view mode too. Darkfall is a versatile game that can accomodate many different view modes. Why only cater to one specific view mode and alienate the others? A game that can accomodate both first person tastes and third person tastes will succeed.

So what about the guy hiding around the corner/wall using TPV to get an unfair advantage on his victim?
Not a single TPV supporter has given a logical soltuion to it that doesn't involve putting a nice amount of stress/work on the client (Which is abuseable by third parties) or the server to constantly keep track of what everyone can see.

Simple, travel in numbers. Make sure your friends have your back. Send in scouts to check places where potential threats might be hiding.

Also, how often will this be happening? Attack someone in the city, youve got the guards to deal with. Do it in a dungeon, you run th risk of monsters or other players getting the drop on the guy who is looking around the corner.

Not to mention that the third person is very tight in Darkfall, so this wont be an issue. Atlest not one that will hamper game play. Even if they guy gets the drop on you, you can still kill him if your good enough of a player. Player skill is the dominant factor in combat.

first person supporters blow this one insignificant issue way out of proportion in a very lame attempt to make the game into a mindless first person shooter. It seems to be the back bone of your entire argument. Did you ever stop to think that the devs, being gamers themselves, have already thought of it and have deemed it something not worth considering? It really is a weak argument considering all of the other elements in the game.

Have you read the latest article on stealth? They mentioned nothing on disappearing and hintde that we wil have to use the environment to hide....which gives us rason to believe there will be a decent amount of objects to hide behind, giving a beter opportunity to exploit the LOS.

Youll be hinding behind stuff on first person too. You want to counter the guys hiding behind rocks and such, send in scouts to check behind them. Its called strategy, try using it some time.

Oh by the way, how is your house doing? Any big bad nasty guilds come by today? :lmao:

Its a really lame that you cant come up with anything better other than something that has nothing to do with this topic and was posted over 2 years ago. And, if you bothered to read every post ive ever made, youll see that my stance on housing destruction has changed since then.

And, SSguy, you shouldnt give yourself away like that. Your the only one dumb enough to use something that has no bearing what-so-ever on the current topic to try and prove your half-baked position.

[4swordlink]

Obviously everyone would want to have their own prefrences so i think that it should be customizable. And who knows there migh be an advantage to using each of the views.

[Shadow Walker2020]

Obviously everyone would want to have their own prefrences so i think that it should be customizable. And who knows there migh be an advantage to using each of the views.

Hmm... Very well put. You make a good point.

[Shadow Walker2020]

woot i'm the only one to vote for 3rd person range, and 1st melee.
but i wouldn't mind going 1st the whole time but in other rpgs i've grown to like the 3rd person range


If the view mode were manually toggleable, then this would be possible.

[dragonreborn]

i would love to have it toggleable. i think it would just be better for evryone

[Elandir]

It really just depends on the game. But 3rd person all the time most of the time.

[Shadowcreep]

No, first person view give you a much more immense feeling of being the character.
Immersion doesn't matter to me. What matters is if you are alive and the other person is dead, and your field of vision is slightly increased in TPV. Slightly more vision = slightly more time to act or react.

[Shadow Walker2020]

Immersion doesn't matter to me. What matters is if you are alive and the other person is dead, and your field of vision is slightly increased in TPV. Slightly more vision = slightly more time to act or react.


If the devs thought that it was going to be bad for game play, then I dont think they would have put third person in at all. Its not going to have that much of an impact on combat. Especially on the massive scale battles the devs are hoping will take place in game.

[NyaR]

manual toggle sounds good, but to avoid exploitation i think the autoswitch between magic and melee is good enough

[TiraX]

Manually. There is some obvious downsides to third person aiming, hard to predict the vector. But I think it should be a free choice all the time. I would hate having 1st person all the time.

[Shadow Walker2020]

manual toggle sounds good, but to avoid exploitation i think the autoswitch between magic and melee is good enough


Auto switch can be confusing and could throw players off.

[Shadow Walker2020]

Manually. There is some obvious downsides to third person aiming, hard to predict the vector. But I think it should be a free choice all the time. I would hate having 1st person all the time.

And it would be less confusing for the player than having the view mode automatically switiching on you if you accidentally hit the wrong key and your view mode changed on you all of a sudden.

[Acetaminophen]

To each his own, I say. I'll leave it at that.

[Shadow Walker2020]

To each his own, I say. I'll leave it at that.


Agreed.

[Shadow Walker2020]

i would love to have it toggleable. i think it would just be better for evryone

True. It would give players a chance to play the game in the view mode they want. I know that there are those out there who would like to be able to melee in first person view mode. And there are those who like to utilize both view modes. It really does make sense to let players toggle the view mode manually, like by hitting F4 or something.

[Bobpoblo]

[FONT="Courier New"]There are advantages and disadvantages to each mode.

1st person only view enables all players to become a part of the game, limited viewing only allows a player to focus on what

[Cheezo]

I think it should be toggleable, but I wouldn't mind a close 3rd person view. Just close enough to where if you see someone behind you, it's too late to avoid a back shot, but wide enough to where it could simulate peripheral vision.

[Shadow Walker2020]

There are advantages and disadvantages to each mode.

1st person only view enables all players to become a part of the game, limited viewing only allows a player to focus on what’s in front of them. This is the most realistic view, and comparing it to Ever Quest, its a lot of fun only if everyone has it. You can't see behind your back etc. Seeing as back hits do more damage, this could be a viable option for the game designers to choose.

3rd Person view allows a wider grasp on the situation. Like WoW, Shadow Bane, DAoC etc. You can see all around and is very unrealistic, but strategically better for the player.

If they offer an option to toggle, everyone will choose 3rd person view, and those who don't will always be at a tactical disadvantage- that’s all there is to it.

Its going to be a tight third person view mode. You wont be able to see behind your character anyway.

If you want a good idea of what the third person will be like, I refer you to this screenshot from the recent RPGvault Darkfall sneak peak. (http://mediaviewer.ign.com/ignMediaPage.jsp?media_id=3963761&object_id=16821&channel_id=227&page_title=Darkfall+Peek+%2331&adtag=network%3Dign%26size%3D468x60%26ch annel%3Drpgvault%26site%3Drpgvault_hub%2 6channel%3Dfeatures%26type%3Dpartner) As you can see, its a very tight third person view mode. You cant see behind your character.

How do you know everyone will use third person? There are many people here who would disagree with that. There are players who will play in first person only. Player skill is what will determine if you have any advantage over anyone else. Unlike SB, WOW, and others, this isnt a point, click and engage game. You have to manually aim all of your shots, both ranged and melee. How good a player is at operating their character will determine tactial advantage. That, and strategy, equipment, character skills, and the number of people you have fighting on your side.

[Acetaminophen]

. . .
How do you know everyone will use third person? There are many people here who would disagree with that. There are players who will play in first person only. Player skill is what will determine if you have any advantage over anyone else. Unlike SB, WOW, and others, this isnt a point, click and engage game. You have to manually aim all of your shots, both ranged and melee. How good a player is at operating their character will determine tactial advantage. That, and strategy, equipment, character skills, and the number of people you have fighting on your side.

I'm one of those people who disagree. I always use first person when it's available.

[Shadow Walker2020]

I'm one of those people who disagree. I always use first person when it's available.

And, I am guessing that you dont care what view mode other players are in because you are good enough of a gamer to be able to beat them no matter what.

[Acetaminophen]

Hmm, I doubt I could beat them no matter what, but I could care less what view they use. I'm not an elite PvPer, I'm happy with my moderate skills, damn it!

[Shadow Walker2020]

Hmm, I doubt I could beat them no matter what, but I could care less what view they use. I'm not an elite PvPer, I'm happy with my moderate skills, damn it!


But you basically dont care what view mode other people use, just as long as you get to play in the view mode you prefer?

[Acetaminophen]

Exactly.

[Shadow Walker2020]

Exactly.

Cool. :cool:

[S@M]

Christ:eek: DFO= Counter strike?
FPP is total crap for MMOs .LOL Head shot , jump , strafe left, HEAD shot! :bang:

David vs Goliat - first known HEADshot

[Shadow Walker2020]

Christ:eek: DFO= Counter strike?
FPP is total crap for MMOs .LOL Head shot , jump , strafe left, HEAD shot! :bang:

David vs Goliat - first known HEADshot

huh?

[Airius Droc]

Hmm, I doubt I could beat them no matter what, but I could care less what view they use. I'm not an elite PvPer, I'm happy with my moderate skills, damn it!

Play Planetside for a day and tell me you don't care what view people use. :)

[S@M]

view is very fucken important , no joke.
3rd person gives u more tactical overview and look on some details related with animation in PvP and such things u learn in time and become Profesional.Well Defending against ganking in 1st person will be much more dificult and require awasome Quake skills , it will be liek mad strafing and jumping crap.
I am aware of some features that require limited view (like backstabing and stealthing)

[Maj]

I perfer first person view because as someone has already mentioned it has a greater psychological value when it comes to immersion. However if third person is available I will always use it. Reason being is that above immersion I am highly competitive. In any of the current MMOs I have played 3rd person was a considerable advantage over first person.

Most if not all 3rd person games allow you to go into first person. There are only a tiny fraction of people in these games that play in first person. There are few people who are willing to give themselves a disadvantage in a video game.

That is why I perfer a restricted first person view. Not only is it more immersive but it also allows for more advanced strategy in PVP. Suddenly ducking behind a hill is a viable strategy when your enemy cant simply get a birds eye view of your position. Battlefield tactics are also dramatically different when you cant see over the people infront of you.

[Maj]

One other thing. The whole "melee" vs "ranged" deal concerns me. If one is allowed to toggle 3rd then everyone should be allowed to toggle 3rd.

Above everything I believe that whatever view you use it should be available for everyone.

[Helgeran]

One other thing. The whole "melee" vs "ranged" deal concerns me. If one is allowed to toggle 3rd then everyone should be allowed to toggle 3rd.

Above everything I believe that whatever view you use it should be available for everyone.

Why? Couldn't the first person view simulate the tunnel vision you get while focusing on something diffucult like shooting that guy 200 yards away or summoning a fire ball out of thin air. This will encourage backstabbers to go for mages and archers.

[S@M]

I would hate to see DFO being a Counter strike fantasy online.

[Senty]

Need a 3rd toggle if only for the ability to see if that brush you're hiding under is really concealing all of your character.

[Maj]

Why? Couldn't the first person view simulate the tunnel vision you get while focusing on something diffucult like shooting that guy 200 yards away or summoning a fire ball out of thin air. This will encourage backstabbers to go for mages and archers.


If one person can see something sneaking up on them then another person should be able to as well. I'm not sure where you learned that when attacking something at a range you suddenly go into "tunnel vision". Last time I picked up my bow or gun I didnt go into tunnel vision, did you?

I wasnt actually even talking about in combat. Since the debate was about "toggling" and not "forced vision" then I believe a Mage should be able to pull out to a limited 3rd person as well. If you want to require him to go back into first person to shoot then thats a whole different ballpark.

[Daarco]

I hope the veiw is controlled for the thing you do at the moment, example something that takes alot of cincentration...spellcasting or firing a bow would be first person,
and some simpler like just hacking with a sword would be 3person.

I dont like when its controlled, but i think it would work perfect for DFO, the all-in PvP need things to make the same for all.

Hope anyone understood what i ment :cool:

[Shadow Walker2020]

I perfer first person view because as someone has already mentioned it has a greater psychological value when it comes to immersion. However if third person is available I will always use it. Reason being is that above immersion I am highly competitive. In any of the current MMOs I have played 3rd person was a considerable advantage over first person.

Most if not all 3rd person games allow you to go into first person. There are only a tiny fraction of people in these games that play in first person. There are few people who are willing to give themselves a disadvantage in a video game.

That is why I perfer a restricted first person view. Not only is it more immersive but it also allows for more advanced strategy in PVP. Suddenly ducking behind a hill is a viable strategy when your enemy cant simply get a birds eye view of your position. Battlefield tactics are also dramatically different when you cant see over the people infront of you.

Well, sure, it would suck if you could go into a birds eye view with third person, but you cant. Darkfalls third person is a locked, tight third person view mode. In other words, if you want to see whats behind that rock, your going to have to walk up to it and see whats behind it. So that guy behind the rock can jump out and attack you when you get close enough.

for an example of what the third person will look like, I refer you to these links.

Link 1 (http://df.warcry.com/scripts/images/view_image.phtml?id=79303&site=7)

Link 2 (http://df.warcry.com/scripts/images/view_image.phtml?id=79641&site=7)

Link 3 (http://df.warcry.com/scripts/images/view_image.phtml?id=79640&site=7)

[Maj]

Even that limited 3rd person view shows you alot more then first person. If I was to draw a box of what that person would be seeing if he was in first person you would notice that 4/5ths of what you see on that screen would not be visable. The ability to see who is behind you and beside you is very significant.

Your screenshots also show some degree of varience in the "Locked" 3rd person between the 2nd and 3rd screenshots.

The simple fact is that a person in 3rd person view can see more, this includes seeing further around objects. It may not let you see a whole lot more around objects but it does let you see a little, and thats an advantage that should not be given to only one style of player.

[Shadow Walker2020]

Even that limited 3rd person view shows you alot more then first person. If I was to draw a box of what that person would be seeing if he was in first person you would notice that 4/5ths of what you see on that screen would not be visable. The ability to see who is behind you and beside you is very significant.

Um, you cant see behind the character in the screen shots. I dont know where your getting that from.

Your screenshots also show some degree of varience in the "Locked" 3rd person between the 2nd and 3rd screenshots.

But in each of them, the view mode is tight and you cannot see behind the character.

The simple fact is that a person in 3rd person view can see more, this includes seeing further around objects. It may not let you see a whole lot more around objects but it does let you see a little, and thats an advantage that should not be given to only one style of player.

And, did you stop to think that maybe the devs know this and just dont care? That its such a tivial matter that its not worth considering? The devs are gamers themselves, they know about this stuff. Did you ever consider that if the devs believed that this was a problem that they would not have implimented third person at all? Maybe they want players to be able to partially look around a corner for stealth purposes. Did you ever stop to consider that?

Believe me, if they did think this was some massive problem, they wouldnt have put third person in at all. The thing is, its not that big of a deal. Will it stop clans from going to war with one another? No. Will it stop players from being able to enjoy the game? Nope.

When it comes to view mode, just let the player pick which one they like the most with a manually toggleable view mode. Everyone has access to the same view modes and no one is stuck with something they dont like.

The only advantages in this game will come from your skill as a player, not what view mode your in. It wont matter. Being in third person doesnt make you a better player. It doesnt magically grant you super gaming skills. What many dont seem to realize is that it doesnt matter what view mode your in, it all boils down to your skill as a gamer.

Another thing you didnt realize is that players will play in whatever view mode they like the best. Players will play what they are comfortable with. Take Acetaminophen for example. They stated that they will only play in first person, yet, they voted for a manually toggleable view mode. Why? Because they know what view mode they like and dont care what view mode other players use.

[Shadow Walker2020]

I perfer first person view because as someone has already mentioned it has a greater psychological value when it comes to immersion. However if third person is available I will always use it. Reason being is that above immersion I am highly competitive. In any of the current MMOs I have played 3rd person was a considerable advantage over first person.

Thats not entirely true. Sense of immersion depends on the person. first person does not provide a sense of immersion for everyone. That feeling of immersion is triggered by different stimuli in different people. There are those who find third person to be more immersive than first and vice versa. It all depends on the player. There is no general trigger for the sense of immersion. You can only say that it is immersive for you, but not that it is immersive in general.

If the advangate were so highly considerable, then why did the devs put in third person at all? The current information on ingame view mode is that when a character has a melee weapon drawn, the player is automatically in third person view mode. When they enter aiming mode or remove the weapon, they are switched to first. so that means that players will still be able to put something like a dagger in their characters hand, run around in third person. As soon as they go to cast a spell, they automatically switch to first person. So, whether you like it or not, your going to be using first person, unless you plan on being a full archer or mage.

The problem with all of that is that it does not let players choose the view mode they favor the most as their primary, or, if they so choose, permanent, view mode. This is something that may protentially drive players away. However, with a manually toggleable view mode, players are free to choose which view mode they like and are most confortable with. And players tend to play better when they are comfortable with the view mode. This means that, with a toggleable view mode, players will be more effective and will be able to counter whatever artificial, and might I add weak, advantage their opponent may have through skill and masterful gameplay.


That is why I perfer a restricted first person view. Not only is it more immersive but it also allows for more advanced strategy in PVP. Suddenly ducking behind a hill is a viable strategy when your enemy cant simply get a birds eye view of your position. Battlefield tactics are also dramatically different when you cant see over the people infront of you.

You can still see over the people in front of you, especially if your on the high ground.

And again, Ill say it, you dont get a birds eye view with third person.

The beauty of a manually toggleable view mode is that youll still get to play in first person. But others who dont like first person will get to play in third. Will they be able to see more of the area infront of them? Yes. Will that make that persons character the ultimate warrior? Hell no. A player in first person could still beat the living snot out of the player in third person, inspite of their little extra field of view. And why did the third person player lose to the first person player? Because the guy in first was the better gamer and was way more skilled.

[Everrest]

Thats not entirely true. Sense of immersion depends on the person. first person does not provide a sense of immersion for everyone. That feeling of immersion is triggered by different stimuli in different people. There are those who find third person to be more immersive than first and vice versa. It all depends on the player. There is no general trigger for the sense of immersion. You can only say that it is immersive for you, but not that it is immersive in general.

If the advangate were so highly considerable, then why did the devs put in third person at all? The current information on ingame view mode is that when a character has a melee weapon drawn, the player is automatically in third person view mode. When they enter aiming mode or remove the weapon, they are switched to first. so that means that players will still be able to put something like a dagger in their characters hand, run around in third person. As soon as they go to cast a spell, they automatically switch to first person. So, whether you like it or not, your going to be using first person, unless you plan on being a full archer or mage.

The problem with all of that is that it does not let players choose the view mode they favor the most as their primary, or, if they so choose, permanent, view mode. This is something that may protentially drive players away. However, with a manually toggleable view mode, players are free to choose which view mode they like and are most confortable with. And players tend to play better when they are comfortable with the view mode. This means that, with a toggleable view mode, players will be more effective and will be able to counter whatever artificial, and might I add weak, advantage their opponent may have through skill and masterful gameplay.




You can still see over the people in front of you, especially if your on the high ground.

And again, Ill say it, you dont get a birds eye view with third person.

The beauty of a manually toggleable view mode is that youll still get to play in first person. But others who dont like first person will get to play in third. Will they be able to see more of the area infront of them? Yes. Will that make that persons character the ultimate warrior? Hell no. A player in first person could still beat the living snot out of the player in third person, inspite of their little extra field of view. And why did the third person player lose to the first person player? Because the guy in first was the better gamer and was way more skilled.


This post is perfect. /agree

[Helgeran]

I would hate to see DFO being a Counter strike fantasy online.

I would have an orgasm.

[Vanno]

Any view, that allows you to see all-around you is for weaklings. I say 1st person, and only 1st person in combat, be it melee or otherwise.

[Shadow Walker2020]

But even then, darkfalls third person is a tight view mode. Its doenst allow you to pan 360 degrees around your character.

[Dred Lord QuarK]

What I dont get is why must it be forced? I understand the concept of a tight 3rd or first to perserve sneaking and realism... but why not allow the player to choose from there.

If first person POV for ranged combat is hands down better players will choose to goto first person view..... however If a player gets motion sickness, they have the option of third! Likewise logic is applyable for meele combat as well.

[Viluin]

First person only. I simply prefer a FPV over a TPV, unless the FPV was implemented horribly.

Oh, and FPV = higher framerates!

[AdmiralChaos]

I'm for a toggle mode, but if there is a 3rd person view at all, which there is, I hope for it to be a static shoulder view similar to first person. I don't want anyone to be able to play with the camera in order to get weird (unfair) angle views.

I know it's not unfair if everyone has it, but it would ruin a lot of gameplay strategy.

Furthermore, I'm really against the current set-up, though I'll live with it, because range/magic characters will have to run around with a melee weapon to benifit from the 3rd person view, and then switch to cast a spell or shoot an arrow. That's dumb.
well, if they have, say, a VERY small reticle like most shooters do in the center of the screen, third person would still work with ranged combat, just it would be easier to switch to first person

[Shadow Walker2020]

well, if they have, say, a VERY small reticle like most shooters do in the center of the screen, third person would still work with ranged combat, just it would be easier to switch to first person


Hey, we're in luck, there is a small cross hair in the middle of the screen in Darkfall. Just look at the screenshots.

I would use first person if my shot had to be dead on. Like say if I was trying to snipe people, I would use first person. But if I was in melee combat and had to cast a spell, I wouldnt want to have to switch. I would fire in third person.

[HIKARU]

First Person all the way.

If the dev's are going to implement all these little things to make the game more "real" (in a sense) such as not being able to see names until targeted manually etc. then I think being locked in First Person is the way to go.

Third person gives an artificial level of awareness.

[Shadow Walker2020]

First Person all the way.

If the dev's are going to implement all these little things to make the game more "real" (in a sense) such as not being able to see names until targeted manually etc. then I think being locked in First Person is the way to go.

Third person gives an artificial level of awareness.


The devs tried first person all the way, but they didnt like how the melee combat looked. Awareness is one thing, but making the game look good is another. The eye candy is important.

[Nevron]

And, did you stop to think that maybe the devs know this and just dont care? That its such a tivial matter that its not worth considering? The devs are gamers themselves, they know about this stuff. Did you ever consider that if the devs believed that this was a problem that they would not have implimented third person at all?

Maybe that's why they're not making it a toggled feature, and continuing on with how they have it now. Did you stop to think of that?

[Shadow Walker2020]

Maybe that's why they're not making it a toggled feature, and continuing on with how they have it now. Did you stop to think of that?

Players will still be able to switch between first and third. All they have to do is put a melee weapon in their characters hand. They can loop hole it. Seriously, :faq: :search:. You need to.

Try reading the Q&A with the devs on Warcry. If you did, then youd know they were considering a toggleable view.

Second, because of this quote....

Finally, third person view affecting stealth: it doesn't

Looks like they might be making a toggleable feature afterall since third person wont be affecting stealth. If anything, it might be one of its key features.

A toggleable view mode would fit in perfectly. Third doesnt affect stealth and letting players choose their view mode makes the game more appealing. No one loses out. And Darkfall wins.

[Nevron]

Players will still be able to switch between first and third. All they have to do is put a melee weapon in their characters hand. They can loop hole it. Seriously, :faq: :search:. You need to.

Try reading the Q&A with the devs on Warcry. If you did, then youd know they were considering a toggleable view.

Second, because of this quote....



Looks like they might be making a toggleable feature afterall since third person wont be affecting stealth. If anything, it might be one of its key features.

A toggleable view mode would fit in perfectly. Third doesnt affect stealth and letting players choose their view mode makes the game more appealing. No one loses out. And Darkfall wins.

First of all, I know that there is TPV with melee and FPV with ranged, so the read faq comment was unnecessary and baseless. If you considered that a "toggle feature" then you wouldn't be begging for a toggle in just about every thread. Nice try though.

Second of all, I know they're considering a lot of things. But I'm sorry if I don't have the time to waste to read through every bit of DF info out there like you do. I'm in Baghdad, Iraq ..I work 13 hour days, and days off are rare. So excuse me if I miss something.

[Jaggid]

Shadow Walker2020- I would like you to ask them to specifically define what a clan stone does exactly. Its is merely a marker that allows clans to build a city or does it grant clans special protection making all clan buildings invulnerable?'

The clanstone is associated with town building; it's a point of gathering
for your clan, and a very important part of the town.

I got that from the Q&A, which has been cover in old information so stop telling people to read this or that, when you are not perfect.

As for the "considering" that comes across to me as them pacifing the whiners and getting the arguement dropped.

[Shadow Walker2020]

First of all, I know that there is TPV with melee and FPV with ranged, so the read faq comment was unnecessary and baseless. If you considered that a "toggle feature" then you wouldn't be begging for a toggle in just about every thread. Nice try though.

Its not a toggle feature, its a loop hole. Youll have people just putting a dagger in their mages hand to get third person. When they fire a spell, they are automatically switched to first person to fire the spell.

A toggleable view would just simplify this.

Second of all, I know they're considering a lot of things. But I'm sorry if I don't have the time to waste to read through every bit of DF info out there like you do. I'm in Baghdad, Iraq ..I work 13 hour days, and days off are rare. So excuse me if I miss something.

Yeah, sure, your in baghdad. Right. Quit lying to gain sympathy in an attempt to cover for your utter n00berness. Thats why it says in your profile Fort Lewis, Washington as your location.

And stop using those brave souls who are over there doing their job and risking their lives to make yourself look good. Your not in Iraq. You just some shlub living in your parents basement. How lame.

[Shadow Walker2020]

I got that from the Q&A, which has been cover in old information so stop telling people to read this or that, when you are not perfect.

For someone from 03', you really are blind to the goings on around here. Knowing things like the Q&A are what seperates the experienced from the n00bs.

As for that Q&A question, I wanted them to clarify exactly how a clan stone functions. does it magically protect the whole city? does it only protect certain areas?

The old info is being replaced with up to date info with each update the devs give. Things change. That was evident when the devs introduced they were going with third for melee the first time.

As for the "considering" that comes across to me as them pacifing the whiners and getting the arguement dropped.

Pacifying the whiners? You dont get it, do you? When the devs say they are considering something, its means, they are considering it. They are testing every possible course of action for darkfall because they want it to be the best game it can possibly be. They want players to have freedom and choices when it comes to their characters and how they interact with and view the ingame world. A toggleable view does just this. It wouldnt surprise me if the next update regarding view mode announces they are making it toggleable. Why? Because the devs want the players to be able to enjoy the game as much as possible.

[Nevron]

Yeah, sure, your in baghdad. Right. Quit lying to gain sympathy in an attempt to cover for your utter n00berness. Thats why it says in your profile Fort Lewis, Washington as your location.

And stop using those brave souls who are over there doing their job and risking their lives to make yourself look good. Your not in Iraq. You just some shlub living in your parents basement. How lame.

Are you serious? So because I didn't go in and change my location to Baghdad when my unit deployed, it means I'm not here?

And way to go on heading down the insult route, it says a lot.

[Shadow Walker2020]

Are you serious? So because I didn't go in and change my location to Baghdad when my unit deployed, it means I'm not here?

And way to go on heading down the insult route, it says a lot.


Who are you to look your nose down at me? Atleast Im not lying about being in Iraq to get sympathy. Thats just pathetic. Going down the road of lies, that says alot more.

And, yeah, most people who are in the armed services do list that they are overseas. You shame them by using their struggle to try and make yourself look good. If you were in the service, youd have more honor than that.

And even if by some slim chance you are in Iraq, its still pathetic that you have to fall back on that to try and win an argument. Your being in iraq has noting to do with the current discussion. And what the hell are you doing on an internet forum? Arent you suposed to be finding terrorists or something? Damn, no wonder why Osamas been evading you guys, with soldiers like you on the net all the time, its like dodging a blind old man.

But the bottom line is, your not in Iraq. Your lying. And its really pathetic and disgraceful to have to use a highly controversial issue, and one that doesnt even pertain to this discussion in any way to boot, to try and gain sympathy and make yourself look good. It also shames those who are over there fighting and are doing their job and carrying the slackers.

Now, quit uisng Iraq to save your weak argument, and stop hijacking the thread and derailing it.

[Surly]

You're a pretentious little cuss aren't you? If you can't show respect to the fighting men of this country you're worse than the fucking bum living off my tax money who's face I spat in earlier today and you need to get off my internets! Ungrateful whelp. I'd pay your parents to beat you more often, but from the way you act they're probably the "time out" sort.

[Shadow Walker2020]

You're a pretentious little cuss aren't you? If you can't show respect to the fighting men of this country you're worse than the fucking bum living off my tax money who's face I spat in earlier today and you need to get off my internets! Ungrateful whelp. I'd pay your parents to beat you more often, but from the way you act they're probably the "time out" sort.


First off, if you believe Nevron is actually in Iraq, then your dumber than I originally thought. Anyone can claim anything on the internet in regards to their life. Its the internet. Duh.

Second, Nevron is showing even more disrepsect to those who are over there fight every day by using their struggle for survival to gain sympathy for his weak argument. Its a cheap manuver, and its pathetic.

Third, I dont show respect to anyone who has to resort to using cheap dodging tactics to try and make themselves look good. The fact that you are defending them makes you equally pathetic. Whats the matter, Surly, trolling going slow today so you have to jump on the first lame band wagon that comes your way?

Fourth, your nothing but a mindless troll. Youve proven that time and time again. And with this post, youve only re-enforced that fact.

Lastly, pay my parents to beat me.... :lmao: Weak. Not only are you dumb, loud mouthed, and a troll, but you support child abuse too. Psycho.

[Surly]

Lastly, pay my parents to beat me.... :lmao: Weak. Not only are you dumb, loud mouthed, and a troll, but you support child abuse too. Psycho.No I don't! I support dumbass abuse.

[Surly]

First off, if you believe Nevron is actually in Iraq, then your dumber than I originally thought. Anyone can claim anything on the internet in regards to their life. Its the internet. Duh.

Second, Nevron is showing even more disrepsect to those who are over there fight every day by using their struggle for survival to gain sympathy for his weak argument. Its a cheap manuver, and its pathetic.

Third, I dont show respect to anyone who has to resort to using cheap dodging tactics to try and make themselves look good. The fact that you are defending them makes you equally pathetic. Whats the matter, Surly, trolling going slow today so you have to jump on the first lame band wagon that comes your way?

Fourth, your nothing but a mindless troll. Youve proven that time and time again. And with this post, youve only re-enforced that fact.Every time some one voices an opinion that isn't yours you spam the forum with a bunch of insults and cry about everything. And apparently not changing your user-location to "Baghdad" when you get deployed is PROOF that you're not in the military. Alright, I believe it!

Now call me crazy if you want to, which I guess you will since you WHINE INCESSANTLY about every... little... thing... but I kind of get the feeling that you're mad about something. I'm sorry if my comments offended you, it wasn't my intention. I was merely trying to be humorous. I didn't mean to get under your skin, or make you look stupid. I didn't mean to point out your shortcomings.

I'm sorry that you feel I'm attacking you Shadow Walker2020, it was not my intention to offend you. I think your opinions are usually wrong, but I also think you argue like a spoiled brat that doesn't get his way. I can only hope, respectfully, that I can deprive you of something that you want in the future. Perhaps I'll get to laugh when SCS is instituted in the game, and you are left to cry once more about injustices in the face of authority.

Cry if you must, but it doesn't change that you should show respect to the armed forces. My only gripe with you has been that you shouldn't have been so impudent and haughty with Nevron. You really have no right to demand that your opinions are facts, and doing so is irresponsible and arrogant.

Again, I hope I'm not being offensive when I say this, but for the sake of everyone's sanity here try to be less of a gutless coward in your posts.

[Lord Zeb]

Both modes do have their pros and cons, but I do prefer... neither, really.

Hate 1st-person when footing is important, as I cannot see my feet or the ground I am walking on. Nor do I know where my body are, so I am a lousy dodger then.

Dislike the 3rd person shown in the images, as then my own body blocks the direct view of my enemy. The turning of the image is also... "flickery", as the image shakes as soon as I make a sideway movement.

I think that the best would be: Togglable, with options.
That the player self can set what he likes the game to show.

Setting such as: 1st person in Ranged and 3rd looking at your back in Melee as standard setting.


Ability to override these settings, and use the following settings:
1st person always

3rd person looking into the back always

3rd person high camera angle, with zoom ability, always

1st person for Ranged, 3rd person high camera angle for Melee


And ability to override settings by manually toggling by button at any time. (Until it is time for new setting.)


Using the "high camera angle" one should be able to look a little from above, so one can see both own body and opponent's properly, as well as much of the battlefield that one wish. As well as one could svirve the camera around, having it center a few meters in front of the character rather than straight on top of him, so one can see any combat or just oneself in different angles. Who wouldn't want to see how you look in your new armor. ;)

Of course, the camera input could be limited to the character's "field of vision" so that one can't see more of the world with #2 view than #3. OR maybe only see Enemies in front of him, maybe having shadowy images behind him if he got good Listen skill or something.


However, one thing I would love to see would be "sluggishness of view", that any movement of body did not induce a movement of camera angle. This would make the world so much more beautiful... That any movement of camera angle would start at least 1/10th of a second after the movement, and be in an accelerating mode depending on how much the body turned. (With a "sensitivity" setting, so that people can have this in different degrees or if all, according to preferences.) This way the body of your character would not be static in the window, but twist and turn a bit, which would also add a bit to the feeling of Action.

[Nevron]

Using the "high camera angle" one should be able to look a little from above, so one can see both own body and opponent's properly, as well as much of the battlefield that one wish. As well as one could svirve the camera around, having it center a few meters in front of the character rather than straight on top of him, so one can see any combat or just oneself in different angles. Who wouldn't want to see how you look in your new armor. ;)

One of the points of the FPV and tight TPV is NOT to be able to see behind you. So why would they enable the possibility of swerving the camera around? If you wanna see behind you, turn around.

[Judge-Jimmie]

I almost feel though 3rd person is more like real life than first person. I havn't played many games though, but think about how you move your head arround. You are pretty much always aware of your surroundings in real life, because you took one second to look left then right to see whats arround you. In FPS you have to turn your whole body just to check over your shoulder? Granted 3rd person isn't realistic as you wouldn't be able to actually see your back. Either way its either not enough or to much there is no balance from what i've seen, maybe though the tight 3rd will be just right.

I have played paintball and other outdoor games like that and I know I am always more aware of whats going on arround me then I am in a FPS game. Like someone said before FPS is almost like you are in tunnel vision.

[Nevron]

I almost feel though 3rd person is more like real life than first person. I havn't played many games though, but think about how you move your head arround. You are pretty much always aware of your surroundings in real life, because you took one second to look left then right to see whats arround you. In FPS you have to turn your whole body just to check over your shoulder?

Mouse speed/sensitivity. It doesn't take that long to look around in FPV.

[Judge-Jimmie]

hmmm I spose if you can look arround quickly. Like I said I havn't played that many FPS games and the ones I have played were slow.

[Nevron]

Any FPS I've tried you can adjust mouse sensitivity to look around at the speed you desire. Hopefully they do the same in DF.

[Shadow Walker2020]

Both modes do have their pros and cons, but I do prefer... neither, really.

Hate 1st-person when footing is important, as I cannot see my feet or the ground I am walking on. Nor do I know where my body are, so I am a lousy dodger then.

Dislike the 3rd person shown in the images, as then my own body blocks the direct view of my enemy. The turning of the image is also... "flickery", as the image shakes as soon as I make a sideway movement.

I think that the best would be: Togglable, with options.
That the player self can set what he likes the game to show.

Setting such as: 1st person in Ranged and 3rd looking at your back in Melee as standard setting.


Ability to override these settings, and use the following settings:
1st person always

3rd person looking into the back always

3rd person high camera angle, with zoom ability, always

1st person for Ranged, 3rd person high camera angle for Melee


And ability to override settings by manually toggling by button at any time. (Until it is time for new setting.)


Using the "high camera angle" one should be able to look a little from above, so one can see both own body and opponent's properly, as well as much of the battlefield that one wish. As well as one could svirve the camera around, having it center a few meters in front of the character rather than straight on top of him, so one can see any combat or just oneself in different angles. Who wouldn't want to see how you look in your new armor. ;)

Of course, the camera input could be limited to the character's "field of vision" so that one can't see more of the world with #2 view than #3. OR maybe only see Enemies in front of him, maybe having shadowy images behind him if he got good Listen skill or something.


However, one thing I would love to see would be "sluggishness of view", that any movement of body did not induce a movement of camera angle. This would make the world so much more beautiful... That any movement of camera angle would start at least 1/10th of a second after the movement, and be in an accelerating mode depending on how much the body turned. (With a "sensitivity" setting, so that people can have this in different degrees or if all, according to preferences.) This way the body of your character would not be static in the window, but twist and turn a bit, which would also add a bit to the feeling of Action.

What the devs and alot of players dont want is to have the camera able to zoom or pan around the character. These DO allow you to see behind your character. Keeping the third person tight behind the character works perfectly for Darkfall. Thats why the devs are going to be using it.

[Jain Farstrider]

I would rather that it is first view only. At least it would be more tactical that way.

A link to someone else’s post to explain tactical approaches via sheath.

http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showpost.php?p=628680&postcount=47

Every one being able to view in third person view would really take away a lot of that type and other tactical approach due to seeing 360 degrees all around. If dark fall were going to have third person view, I would hope at least it would be real tight.

[DoddyCurumehtar]

Hate 1st-person when footing is important, as I cannot see my feet or the ground I am walking on. Nor do I know where my body are, so I am a lousy dodger then.


Who says you can't see your body in first person, ala Dark Messiah?

[Shadow Walker2020]

[QUOTE=Jain Farstrider;630419]I would rather that it is first view only. At least it would be more tactical that way.

A link to someone else

[Acetaminophen]

Eventually you will all run out of things to say. When that day comes, I will be ready to point out the fact that you are all morons. Thank you kindly.

On a side note, it doesn't matter what you want, because you aren't getting jack shit.

[DeathWing980]

toggable views isnt that bad, but can be exploited in some ways..

think of planetside how they players would use their third view to see past the doorways or even into other hallways for oncoming enemy forces..

this can be used also for the game when your invading towns, or even being stealthy in a sense..

either way, be it first person for shooting casting or even swords its all going to be a personal taste to everyone..

might as well make it so people can choose.. but everything comes with its pros and cons.

[Shadow Walker2020]

toggable views isnt that bad, but can be exploited in some ways..

think of planetside how they players would use their third view to see past the doorways or even into other hallways for oncoming enemy forces..

I believe the devs may have this covered. They probably played planet side and figured out a way to prevent this. Im not 100%, but im pretty confident they have. If they didnt, then I dont believe they would have put third person into the game at all.

this can be used also for the game when your invading towns, or even being stealthy in a sense..

Well its like Tasos said:


Finally, third person view affecting stealth: it doesn't.

So I dont think we have to worry about that.

either way, be it first person for shooting casting or even swords its all going to be a personal taste to everyone..

might as well make it so people can choose.. but everything comes with its pros and cons.

Well the biggest con I can think of would have to be the stealth thing, but as Tasos said, it wont be affecting how stealth operates. They might be leaning more towards letting players manually toggle their view mode. It is the smart choice.

[Lord Zeb]

One of the points of the FPV and tight TPV is NOT to be able to see behind you. So why would they enable the possibility of swerving the camera around? If you wanna see behind you, turn around.

Well, I did say that the swive of the camera axle should be in front of the character. The Camera view is not for looking behind you, it is for getting a better view of things in general. Like how you yourself look from the front, or getting a scenic view of a nice looking battle which is good for moviemaking.:cool:

And if one is THAT afraid of not allowing people seeing what is behind you... make all objects that are out of sigh simply not be shown, even if the background is left for "movie use". Will leave some stress out from the graphics card. :) And the possibility for "Surround Sense Spells", Eye in your Backs so to say, that can be used for proper movie making.:cool:

[losinglife]

manually toggable... i like 3rd person all the time but i could see the need for first person in ranged for this game

[Shadow Walker2020]

Well, I did say that the swive of the camera axle should be in front of the character. The Camera view is not for looking behind you, it is for getting a better view of things in general. Like how you yourself look from the front, or getting a scenic view of a nice looking battle which is good for moviemaking.:cool:

And if one is THAT afraid of not allowing people seeing what is behind you... make all objects that are out of sigh simply not be shown, even if the background is left for "movie use". Will leave some stress out from the graphics card. :) And the possibility for "Surround Sense Spells", Eye in your Backs so to say, that can be used for proper movie making.:cool:

I really dont like the idea of "Eyes in the back of your head" spells. Those will hurt stealth. This game is about PvP, not movie making.

[Makolyte]

Manually toggable:D

[Theohn]

i don't like the idea of people in 3rd person being able to "see" around corners without exposing themselves, it will be rather hard to ambush them if they can use 3rd person to check a corner / tree before walking around it.

[Shadow Walker2020]

Well, no one knows if youll actually be able to look around corners. And, if this was a problem, then the devs wouldnt have put third person in at all. Besides, ambushes dont just happen from around corners. They happen from on top of clifs down onto travelers who are passing throught the valley below and other locations as well.

[Shadow Walker2020]

manually toggable... i like 3rd person all the time but i could see the need for first person in ranged for this game

A manually toggleable view mode isnt just good for those who want to play in 3rd all the time, its good for those who want 1st all the time.

[Lord Zeb]

I really dont like the idea of "Eyes in the back of your head" spells. Those will hurt stealth. This game is about PvP, not movie making.

Well, that's the reason why the Wizard researched it then, I guess. ;) A nice way to look behind the corner, with an "Awareness" spell. Just basic divination, actually. And not a "constant power" and therefore people will actually get away with sneaking up on people. (Or else they will need to make use of Invisibility spells...:p )

And even IF implemented, they will probably not be that common. But for those that wants to make movies, it gives great opportunities for it, while at the same time removing any "crosshairs" and hands waving from 1st person and makes it so that you don't need to watch the back of the person "filming" all the time. And as was said: This game is not about filming. It is about FREEDOM.

And having the freedom to make movies is one such freedom.:)

[Shadow Walker2020]

Well, that's the reason why the Wizard researched it then, I guess. ;) A nice way to look behind the corner, with an "Awareness" spell. Just basic divination, actually. And not a "constant power" and therefore people will actually get away with sneaking up on people. (Or else they will need to make use of Invisibility spells...:p )

And even IF implemented, they will probably not be that common. But for those that wants to make movies, it gives great opportunities for it, while at the same time removing any "crosshairs" and hands waving from 1st person and makes it so that you don't need to watch the back of the person "filming" all the time. And as was said: This game is not about filming. It is about FREEDOM.

And having the freedom to make movies is one such freedom.:)

Ummm, I cant say I agree with that. Darkfall isnt about making movies. Its about the PvP. The devs didnt make this game for people to make movies. You want to do that, then go to hollywood.

[Lord Caim]

Manual toggle ftw!

[Barateous]

I perfer to play in third person all the time, but I voted for manually toggleable. There are players who do not like third person and it would be unfair if they could not enjoy the game from the view mode they enjoy most.

[pronkyou2]

Newbies aren't allowed to make a necromancer class until their 3rd month! Why are you hacking the forumfall servers!?

[Oblivion]

Ahhh, to have UO's isometric view would be epic.

[xauss]

i dislike the idea of chars with melee weps getting 3rd person view and those with ranged / spells get 1st person view.

now i understand that 1st person view is more immersive, and really gets you on the edge of your seat because your vision is so limited, but i think if anyone is foced to use 1st person view, everybody should be.

however, i voted toggleable, since options to play the way you want is always good. maybe when a player draws his bow, begins a cast he is instantly toggled to 1st person to aim, and even when a char swings his sword / axe / hammer / whatever...

[Barateous]

Newbies aren't allowed to make a necromancer class until their 3rd month! Why are you hacking the forumfall servers!?

I posted in this thread so I wouldnt have to make a new one to vote on the ingame view mode and get the standard :faq: :search: responce from other posters telling me not to make a poll on this subject because its been done before.

So, Im using one thats already been made.

[Titus Ultor]

Any viewer of horror films can tell you one simple thing: shooting from the "first person" is far more immersive, perfectly translating the desperation and vision of the character. The only people who would find a third person view more "immersive" or "real" would have to be someone stalking another person constantly while having some sort of mind control to move them around.

For a gaming example, try pressing F6 in Mount and Blade. Combat is simply mechanical when you're in third person, particularly on foot. Switch to first-person mode, and melee combat is a whirl of surprises, quick retreats, and reliance on allies to watch your back.

If a "locked" third person view doesn't show any more of the screen or around objects (which it does, but regardless..), then what's the point? Suddenly your character's in the way, whereas a first person character doesn't have to see a big hulking moron in their line-of-sight.

At the least.. combat should be forced first person, and outside combat (weapon sheathed or whatever) should be toggleable for screenshots and the like.

[Titus Ultor]

EDIT: And hold up, since when are devs fully capable of using and exploiting the plethora of bugs players find? I don't think Tasos simple statement at a pre-beta stage really erases the experiences of every player whose played a TPV game. Hell, I remember Zelda 64 actually advising the "looking around walls" character.

Try it at home, kids: Run your third-person view character into a wall near a corner. Ta-da!

EDITEDIT: Wow. Not sure how that became a separate post.

[Shadow Walker2020]

EDIT: And hold up, since when are devs fully capable of using and exploiting the plethora of bugs players find? I don't think Tasos simple statement at a pre-beta stage really erases the experiences of every player whose played a TPV game. Hell, I remember Zelda 64 actually advising the "looking around walls" character.

Try it at home, kids: Run your third-person view character into a wall near a corner. Ta-da!

EDITEDIT: Wow. Not sure how that became a separate post.

For all you know, the third person could be a part of the stealth in Darkfall. I mean, the devs are gamers, they know it can happen. Maybe, just maybe, they want players to be able to do this. Stealth is the art of remaining unseen.

[DoddyCurumehtar]

At the least.. combat should be forced first person, and outside combat (weapon sheathed or whatever) should be toggleable for screenshots and the like.

Totally agree. I can't believe the devs didn't like first person melee. They must have done it wrong...;)

[Titus Ultor]

For all you know, the third person could be a part of the stealth in Darkfall. I mean, the devs are gamers, they know it can happen. Maybe, just maybe, they want players to be able to do this. Stealth is the art of remaining unseen.

Why would they want players to be able to do this? I love how your arguments against it are "It makes you a better fighter if you win with this" or now, "stealth is more awesome when you can't rely on your instincts".

Also, and while the devs were avid gamers, it's important to remember that they probably haven't played that extensively or competitively (I hope) since at least 2003, and most likely suffer from a tunnel vision which all developers develop about their own game. Things work by their judgment at the moment, and any balancing claims should be taken with a healthy shake of salt.

TPV actually makes ambushing and other stealthy activities easier by the same token. Say your character's crouched behind a rock or well hidden behind a tree. You can see where your opponent can't. Even in my "corner" example, it gives the ambusher the most enviable of hiding spots: able to see your opponent without then having any chance to see you.

[andy9306]

I would like to be able to toggle the view. I would keep it at TPV normally so that I would actually have the equivalent of peripheral vision and so I could enjoy the landscape. When I went into battle if I was using melee I would keep it at TPV. If I was using ranged attacks I would probably use FPV. When using magic I would toggle between FPV and TPV depending on the range of my enemy and the spell I was using.

Overall I don't see why it should be optional regardless of the weapon you are using. That way everyone gets what they want.


Edit: TPV is much better for stealthing, not because you can see your enemy when they have no chance of seeing you, but because you can see whether or not your leg or arm is sticking out from behind the rock you are attempting to hide behind. FPV makes it difficult to actually know how much physical space your character takes up. Not good.

[Shadow Walker2020]

Why would they want players to be able to do this? I love how your arguments against it are "It makes you a better fighter if you win with this" or now, "stealth is more awesome when you can't rely on your instincts".

Also, and while the devs were avid gamers, it's important to remember that they probably haven't played that extensively or competitively (I hope) since at least 2003, and most likely suffer from a tunnel vision which all developers develop about their own game. Things work by their judgment at the moment, and any balancing claims should be taken with a healthy shake of salt.

TPV actually makes ambushing and other stealthy activities easier by the same token. Say your character's crouched behind a rock or well hidden behind a tree. You can see where your opponent can't. Even in my "corner" example, it gives the ambusher the most enviable of hiding spots: able to see your opponent without then having any chance to see you.

titus, your argument was put to rest not too long ago, back in October with this statement from Tasos.

Finally, third person view affecting stealth: it doesn't. (http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=26959)

So I really suggest that you :search: from now on in all sections of the forums, especially the news section.

[Blackwolf1982]

I have to ask what would be so hard about ranged combat occuring in 3rd person? I have yet to see anything wrong with this system in the few games I have seen that allowed it (by providing CROSSHAIRS in third person to indicate where you are aiming).

[Shadow Walker2020]

I have to ask what would be so hard about ranged combat occuring in 3rd person? I have yet to see anything wrong with this system in the few games I have seen that allowed it (by providing CROSSHAIRS in third person to indicate where you are aiming).

Nothing. There is nothing hard about ranged combat in third person view mode. Third person shooters work pretty well. Gears of War ring anyones bells? How about StarWars battlefront? Ranged combat can be effective in third person as well as first. Another reason why the ingame view mode should be manually toggleable.

[DoddyCurumehtar]

(by providing CROSSHAIRS in third person to indicate where you are aiming).

Crosshairs are unrealistic. Elves don't have HUDs. I say aim your bow and magic yourself, without a crosshair.

[andy9306]

Well they have a cross-hair in first person...why not have one in third person? What you guys seem to fail to realise that Darkfall is about freedom. Freedom to make choices and not get screwed for them. Toggleable views would be a good choice to allow characters to have.

There is no harm having it toggleable. You don't play worse because someone else feels like having peripheral vision.

[DoddyCurumehtar]

What you guys seem to fail to realise that Darkfall is about freedom. Freedom to make choices and not get screwed for them. Toggleable views would be a good choice to allow characters to have.


Why? Because some people want to play with the realism of the world?

I don't support the freedom to toggle names on enemies heads, or the freedom to keep some items safe from full loot. It's only about freedom within reason. And I'm yet to see a good enough reason for TPV.

[Helgeran]

Nothing. There is nothing hard about ranged combat in third person view mode. Third person shooters work pretty well. Gears of War ring anyones bells? How about StarWars battlefront? Ranged combat can be effective in third person as well as first. Another reason why the ingame view mode should be manually toggleable.

Starwars Battlefront? Are you kidding me? And GoW is a fucking x-box game, get real. If you wanted to support your stance maybe you should have suggested Splinter Cell or something. Mount and Blade. And still, it's a bad idea, because forcing ranged attackers into FPV makes them easier to sneak up on and encourage the tactic of having a few people attack from the back and sake out the semi blind archers and nukers.

[Vorian]

If holding a staff means you have to be in FPV, it sucks. If I am a pure mage, am I going to be in first person all the time? I want to be able to see my character.

What would be good is when you prepare to shoot an arrow or cast a spell, the camera changes to first person.

[Daveoh]

Toggleable, I don't want to be restricted in seeing what I'm doing

[Bistfedon]

i think there is a need for crosshairs in this game and in all games as when in real life you can line your eyesight up with a line to get a fix on yoru target while in game you can't makeing it much harder to aim, crosshairs tell you what you are aiming at and make the game more playable

tpv v no tpv

im all for no tpv as this game is supposed to be SEMI realalistic so there should be no corner peeking, no zooming out your camer to see where you are, learn your guys body size and build to do that, thats realism, when hiding behind a corner irl you probably dont look down to make sure your foot is where you think it is becuase you have sense of where your body is(yes i know the the sense of feeling plays in here but not as much as youd think) so thats say no tpv as you can do everything in fpv(shooting, swords, spells) but not everything in tpv(anything ranged)

[Shadow Walker2020]

i think there is a need for crosshairs in this game and in all games as when in real life you can line your eyesight up with a line to get a fix on yoru target while in game you can't makeing it much harder to aim, crosshairs tell you what you are aiming at and make the game more playable

tpv v no tpv

im all for no tpv as this game is supposed to be SEMI realalistic so there should be no corner peeking, no zooming out your camer to see where you are, learn your guys body size and build to do that, thats realism, when hiding behind a corner irl you probably dont look down to make sure your foot is where you think it is becuase you have sense of where your body is(yes i know the the sense of feeling plays in here but not as much as youd think) so thats say no tpv as you can do everything in fpv(shooting, swords, spells) but not everything in tpv(anything ranged)


Woah woah, are you saying you can do ranged combat in third person? Do the names Gears of War or Star Wars Battlefront ring any bells? Those games are perfect examples of how ranged combat can be done in third person. If they can do it in those games, it can certainly be done in Darkfall.

As for zooming, you cant do that in with Darkfall's third person view. Its set behind your character. Watch the game play vids, you'll see.

Peeking around corners is nothing. Thats a BS reason to not have thrid person. Its a game. You need some way of seeing whats around a corner so you can stealth and sneak. It kinda defeats the purpose of sneaking if you have to walk out from your cover right into the enemy's line of sight to see around the next corner. That will cut down on a stealther's options of movement. It will pretty much render it useless. In every sneaking and stealthing game, third person is key to moving undetected. In real life, you can lean over, bring your head out just far enough so that your periferal vision can catch a glimpse of whats round the next bend. Cant really do that with a game, unless they have VR helmets you can use with Darkfall. But, since I dont think thats going to be the case, they are going to have to let people use third person to help them stealth effectively.

Atleast with a manually toggleable view mode, people can enjoy the game from the perspective they want.

[Shadow Walker2020]

Starwars Battlefront? Are you kidding me? And GoW is a fucking x-box game, get real. If you wanted to support your stance maybe you should have suggested Splinter Cell or something. Mount and Blade. And still, it's a bad idea, because forcing ranged attackers into FPV makes them easier to sneak up on and encourage the tactic of having a few people attack from the back and sake out the semi blind archers and nukers.

Both Starwars Battlefront and Gears of War may be x-box games, but they can both be played on line on xbox live against other players. The combat is fast paced just like Darkfalls will be. And, despite being in third person, you still get flanked and hit from behind. You obviously never played either game on line, so your point is moot.

Mount and Blade? Oh, you mean that single player, non-online game where all you do is whale on NPCs? :rolleyes: Give me a break. That games mechanics may be the same, but the combat is nothing compared to Darkfalls.

You can still come up from behind on a ranged attacker if they are in third person. Third person doesnt automatically grant you ESP where you can sense another player coming from a mile away. Thats just crap. You can still neak up on them, you just cant stand there behind them and do idiotic shit, take screen shots, or whatever it is you do in your moron first person shooters. Third person forces you to execute your attack or lose the opportunity.

Sorry, no wussy punk back stabbing here. Either fight or get lost.

[hagestad]

Manually Toggleable View mode, why hamper it?

[WarDemonX]

I'd like to be able to be in 3rd person mode (with a tight viewpoint up close behind me, of course) except for when I shoot a spell or arrow at someone. Then, I'd love a 3rd person over-the-shoulder viewpoint, like in Gears of War. It's just more immersive than 1st person for me. 3rd person view comes close to letting me see as much stuff in front of me as I can in reality.

Plus, it'll just be nice to see how cool I look when I shoot people.

[Joaorv]

I voted manualy toggle. But i'd like to add hat I think cameras that zoom out a lot are a mistake. The camera should allow for just about enough zoom out for you to see what's hugging your back.

[t5chris]

I think we should have a mini map that shows everything on it. It will allow you scroll through the entire land so you can view what's on it. Kind of like google earth. This post brought to you by George W. Bush.

[Shadow Walker2020]

I think we should have a mini map that shows everything on it. It will allow you scroll through the entire land so you can view what's on it. Kind of like google earth. This post brought to you by George W. Bush.

Please, even Bush isnt stupid enough to promote an idea like that.

Now, a button that declairs war on the enitre middle east, that sounds more like Bush.

[Shadow Walker2020]

I'd like to be able to be in 3rd person mode (with a tight viewpoint up close behind me, of course) except for when I shoot a spell or arrow at someone. Then, I'd love a 3rd person over-the-shoulder viewpoint, like in Gears of War. It's just more immersive than 1st person for me. 3rd person view comes close to letting me see as much stuff in front of me as I can in reality.

Plus, it'll just be nice to see how cool I look when I shoot people.

Its like ive been saying all along. Sense of immersion differes from person to person. FPVM doesnt guarantee immersion. Neither does third. It all depends on the player.

Thank you for proving my point.

[Zandik]

I am against manually adjusting your view due mainly to what has been debated and mentioned many times in other threads, you'd be able to see people sneaking up on you. I wouldnt mind if you could toggle back and forth between the first person view and tight third person view; so if you wanted to play always in fpv or the tight tpv you could.

[Shadow Walker2020]

I am against manually adjusting your view due mainly to what has been debated and mentioned many times in other threads, you'd be able to see people sneaking up on you. I wouldnt mind if you could toggle back and forth between the first person view and tight third person view; so if you wanted to play always in fpv or the tight tpv you could.

And, as it has been metioned in several threads and ended serveral debates, you can still sneak up on people in Darkfall because it's view mode is a tight third person view mode. Watch the game play video and look at the screen shots.

[Truth]

I prefer first person, but I can't argue it much otherwise I'll be flamed to death by that madman who feels the need to comment after every post. I feel like I'm being inspected by a drill sergeant and my opinion has no merit because I must pass some test that all opinions are incorrect but his own. I realize that some of these guys are going a little too far and I understand your frustration, but come on...

Anyway, to me, first person takes a bit more skill and is definitely more realistic. I would rather have the player's experience of the game to be suited best to him/her. So, I believe manually would be best. First person feels like the character is you, or at least an extension of you. Plus then you'd have to aim your own shots and blows, which I know you can do in third, but you'd have to figure in distance, wind, and other factors and that be slightly obstructed in third person. I hope you choose your attacks instead of choosing the target and your character does the rest, minus the health you try to recover, or the special move you try to throw in there...

Oh well, time will tell. Manual with a preference of fpv!

[Endo]

I voted for "first person for ranged and third person for melee". But I should have voted toggleable.

For melee at least I want to see a third person view that is somewhat flexible. Not so much that it makes sneak attacks non-viable, but enough so that you can see what's going on immediately around you, and most importantly where your feet are in relation to where your enemy is. The third person view shown in the screenshots will not work for me. This is significant enough that it might be a make-or-break issue for me. If the view (for melee at least) is too limited I will probably not be playing this game.

[Xarcos]

I voted for "first person for ranged and third person for melee". But I should have voted toggleable.

Same. >_> I'd love that freedom.

[PossessedPriest]

A manually toggleable view mode would be excellent!

[Shadow Walker2020]

Well, its good to see manually toggleable view is in a dominating lead.

[boxfetish]

Why? Because some people want to play with the realism of the world?

I don't support the freedom to toggle names on enemies heads, or the freedom to keep some items safe from full loot. It's only about freedom within reason. And I'm yet to see a good enough reason for TPV.

Winner.


Well, its good to see manually toggleable view is in a dominating lead.


Good for you maybe, but for the game? I prefer FPV, I don't care which it is, TPV or FPV, but I think it should be the same for everyone unless the devs can make it so one PoV does not offer a distinct advantage over another.

[Koumori]

i personaly hate 3rd person because it makes it nearly impossible for anything to come up behind you and your character is not there to take up pixels on your screen, its there to tell people my armour is beter then yours meaning dont mess with me !

[Silver Fang]

talk about realism, there are several sense you lost in the game compare to real world. You can determine where a sounds is comming from, you can determine wheres an arrow roughly comming from, shadows also helps in real life.

i prefer a toggle and it wont affect much to the sneaking player, if you get too close and end up on the screen of a tight 3rd person view, you are likely going to touch the player and being discovered.

[DoddyCurumehtar]

shadows also helps in real life.


No shadows in DF?

[Silver Fang]

there are more than shadow than the 'shadow', anyway, you think they will use a proper dynami shadow in a MMO game with FPS combat element?

[Shadow Walker2020]

Winner.



Good for you maybe, but for the game? I prefer FPV, I don't care which it is, TPV or FPV, but I think it should be the same for everyone unless the devs can make it so one PoV does not offer a distinct advantage over another.

It doesnt. Player skill determines advantage along with the numbers game, equipment and tactics. Just because a player is in third person view while that pack of 20 guys over there is in first doesnt mean the guy in third will win.

[Varks]

This is what happens when ya make ppl wait to long for a game. They start posting and argueing over the most retarded of topics.

[DoddyCurumehtar]

This is what happens when ya make ppl wait to long for a game. They start posting and argueing over the most retarded of topics.

This isn't a retarded topic. The view mode is the first thing I look at in a game - I don't play 3rd person games unless they are really, really, really good.

[Vivyan]

I'm fine with the way it's set to be- Third person melee and first person ranged.

[Mechiah]

in my opinion,

[Lominous]

Manually toggeable view. And first person must be like Oblivion style, showing your sword and shield, otherwise it ain't worth it.

[Altheas]

Manually toggeable, only if hiding isn't affected.

[DoddyCurumehtar]

Manually toggeable view. And first person must be like Oblivion style, showing your sword and shield, otherwise it ain't worth it.
And your legs. I want to look down and see something. I don't like being a floating set of weapons.

[Lethn]

As long as it's manually toggable I wouldn't care about third or first person.... I'd keep it in first just to give me that nostalgic Oblivion feel.

[In Por Ylem]

They need to allow people the option to fix their view... you don't turn as slowly in the game than in real life so i don't buy the "realism" thing.

And no god no do not automatically "change" the view for me when I enter different modes of combat, that is such bullshit. Do not do it like ShadowBane.

[Lykaios]

probably id like first person in all combat, but if i need to see whats behind me ill toggle third

[Lord of Ages]

Its obvious who won this poll....

[Teutates]

I wonder who voted on this: third person for range, first for melee ... doesn't make sense.

[Asthaar]

first person view all the time would be best. Else you can look around corners and stuff like that

[Wonderbreadz]

Manually toggleable view mode. Some players perform better in First person others in Third, It would make the game alot more fair/challenging ;)

[Krogan]

voted first person ranged, third person melee, but i would like to add that it is also extremely important that it's a locked 3'rd person camera view just behind you're head. No eyes in the back of the head so to speak.

I just find 3’rd person melee view is much more realistic then first person. The first person view you get in fps games are nothing like the fps view we have in rl with peripheral vision and a head that can move independently of the rest of the body.

[Irodim]

Bumping because other POV thread got hijacked.

[Mad Z]

Definintely toggleable. Aventurine didn't want to limit player freedom so it will probably be like this. Anyhow judging by trailers that's the way it is.

[Irodim]

I think the trailers and a lot of the screen shots are taken by a free chase camera. Kind of like no clipping in Counter Strike if you have played that game.

[Mad Z]

yeah ok i haven't though about that one, but still when u watch a trailer there is in the end caster casting AoE fire and it goes first-person and there is a mirdain female stabbing a mahirim in the gut with a dagger and there it's 3rd person so i think it IS toggleable. That looked too clipped.

[Irodim]

yeah ok i haven't though about that one, but still when u watch a trailer there is in the end caster casting AoE fire and it goes first-person and there is a mirdain female stabbing a mahirim in the gut with a dagger and there it's 3rd person so i think it IS toggleable. That looked too clipped.

I think it was a WarCry journal that said the dev's decided that it was going to be TPV for melee and FPV for casters and ranged attacks. I believe it was the same journal that said that you couldn't cast spells or fire a bow while on a mount.

[Mad Z]

hmm, yeah ok u r right there. I remember something like that.

[boxfetish]

I would have voted toggable a week ago but after the recent discussion on it a few good points were brought up thats made me go with the announced choice

points such as it being more easier to figure out whether youre being atacked by ranged or melee and which direction from while in TPV

I agree with this guy. 3rd PoV usually gives a decided advantage to determining whether you are being attacked by range or melee, and for determining which direction attacks are coming from.

If that's the case who in their right mind will use 1st person except those who do it as a point of pride or for immersion. Let's go with what the Devs want, an automatic switch to 3rd person when entering melee, otherwise 1st person without the ability to toggle.

NO TOGGLE. The argument for giving us the choice when one will offer a distinct advantage (especially in combat) is just as fucktarded as the arguments that recalls and SRS should be in the game because those who don't want them in the game don't have to use them.

LOL. Right. Nobody will be forced to in order to not be at a distinct disadvantage will they. /sarcasm

P.S. Good job on the necro. See if you can necro a few more PoV threads so we can have this discussion across four threads so nobody can follow it any more.

[Irodim]

This poll is constructed better and is not talking about why flying should or should not be implemented.

[Solikos]

Full Toggles. Some players will enjoy different aspects and effects in various views. Most won't have an idea once in the game. I'd also like a way to zoom in on the front of my character - better screen shots. :cool:

[boxfetish]

Full Toggles. Some players will enjoy different aspects and effects in various views.


Sometimes I am glad that the (very slight) majority is not going to get their way with something. Look, this is not about player freedom. If you offer two choices via a toggle (1st and 3rd PoV) and one of them gives a distinct advantage (3rd) over the other (1st) for determining how and from where you are being attacked everyone will just end up using 3rd and nobody will use 1st unless they are doing it to be hardcore or for the sake of immersion. Player choice and freedom is only credible if their is a REAL choice, if one of the two choices is obviously inferior, then the choice is a sham and there is no point to offering the choice to begin with.



Most won't have an idea once in the game. I'd also like a way to zoom in on the front of my character - better screen shots. :cool:

The 3rd PoV is close in on your character and locked so you will not be able to zoom in or out or have a view of the front of your character.

[Mad Z]

I would disagree, u need first person for rangers and casters whereas third is for melee. Also third might give u adantages but if everyone has it, how is it an advantage?

[Revolver777]

I would disagree, u need first person for rangers and casters whereas third is for melee. Also third might give u adantages but if everyone has it, how is it an advantage?

I don't think you understood what he meant. If third person > first person why would anyone use first person view? Thus, why even include the option to switch between the views if third person is obviously more advantageous and no one is going to use it.

[boxfetish]

I would disagree, u need first person for rangers and casters whereas third is for melee. Also third might give u adantages but if everyone has it, how is it an advantage?

I am not concerned about any particular players getting an advantage over another, I am talking about the 3rd PoV itself being an advantage over the 1st PoV for the reason I stated. Nobody is going to CHOOSE a PoV that puts them at a disadvantage (especially in combat). Since combat is always a potential threat nobody is going to walk around in 1st. A few will do it for immersion, and ranged attackers will do it while they aim and that will be it.

I would prefer a system that forces everyone to use 1st all of the time, but if the Devs decided against that for melee then I prefer a system the is 1st all the time except when it auto-switches to 3rd for melee combat. And that is what we have.

Well, I am not sure if I cleared anything up there or just repeated myself. I guess I just don't believe there is an honest choice there. It would be like giving starting characters the choice between a sword that is ornate and shiny but does 1d4 damage and a sword that looks rusty and worn but does 1d10 damage. Who is going to choose the first sword? Almost nobody. So, there really isn't a choice even though it seems like it. So, why bother? Just give everyone the same sword.

[Mad Z]

Yes ok I understand ur point better now and still suppose that it is a price ranged ocmbatants pay for staying 100 meters away at a safety range.

[Staatsschutz]

i voted for first person all the time, because it makes you a part of the game world, if you look at your character in the 3rd person view, at least i myself cant get to feel like was living in the game world. but then again if its optional you cant play in 1st person because then the others who are playing in 3rd person would have a huge advantage over you in such a pvp style game. so if 3rd person is optional i will have to go with 3rd person too

[Corpsefire]

i voted for manual toggle thing.

but chances are it'll be 1st ranged 3rd melee

[sickwookie]

Sometimes I am glad that the (very slight) majority is not going to get their way with something. Look, this is not about player freedom. If you offer two choices via a toggle (1st and 3rd PoV) and one of them gives a distinct advantage (3rd) over the other (1st) for determining how and from where you are being attacked everyone will just end up using 3rd and nobody will use 1st unless they are doing it to be hardcore or for the sake of immersion. Player choice and freedom is only credible if their is a REAL choice, if one of the two choices is obviously inferior, then the choice is a sham and there is no point to offering the choice to begin with.

In light of your post would like to remove my vote for player choice.

[Ludo]

Leave the choice to the player I'd say. Voted the bottom one.

[Deja vu]

crap I ment to vote for 3rd person melee and 1st person range but I clicked the other one :bang:

[Irodim]

Do people who want TPV melee/FPV ranged not see the advantage? don't care there's an advantage? What is the reasoning behind it?

[Xtra-Medium]

You can choose either one whenever you want. But the third don't give you an advantage to what you can see which would be wierd, people would pop out of nowhere from behind you and to the sides. Or if not that permanent FPV.

[Wisperer]

I did not vote as i like the view system the DEV's have set up.

[Insomniak]

...3rd person ranged retarded...ill let you readers figure out why

[DoddyCurumehtar]

Nobody is going to CHOOSE a PoV that puts them at a disadvantage (especially in combat). Since combat is always a potential threat nobody is going to walk around in 1st. A few will do it for immersion...
Then it's not nobody, is it?

I'll be one of those few. I don't care how gimped I become, immersion is more fun than being uber-leet.

I would prefer a system that forces everyone to use 1st all of the time...
Ditto.

[Shadow Walker2020]

Then it's not nobody, is it?

I'll be one of those few. I don't care how gimped I become, immersion is more fun than being uber-leet.


Immersion depends on the person and the ingame environment and its appeal to the player, not on the view mode.

Everyone has different tastes and likes. Not everyone thinks first person is this all immersing view that makes everyone feel like they are their character. The same applies for third person. Ive played my fair share of FP shooters and I dont find it immersive at all. If anything, it feels very far from real life. Its makes me feel like ive got vision problems or something, like walking around with blinders on all day. But, on the flip side, I felt that UO, a unilateral top down 2d third person view game, was very immersive. And what make it this way? It wasnt the view mode, it was the game environment, how it interacted with me.

But, if you are one of those people who have to have first person to feel immersed in the game, then thats fine. But, it appeals to you. It may not appeal to 20 or 30 other people. The same applies to third person. I may not like first person, but there may be 20 or 30 other people who do. This is why a manually toggleable view mode is the best option for a game like Darkfall.

As for the combat advantage, that remains to be seen. Whether or not it provides some sort of advantage must be proven. The only way to do that is to have players actually engage in combat in game. But, considering how heavily this game relies on players skill, it is safe to assume that those who are experiences in first person PvP will fair better in that view mode with the same method of thinking applied to those accustom to third person PvP.

And to those who say you cant do well in ranged combat in third person obviously never played Star Wars Battlefront online against other players.

[mrroboto40]

I really like the view system in Hellgate: London, you can either chose between a ranged class or a melee class. For the ranged class, you can toggle between 1st person and 3rd person, the crosshair stays and its relatively easy to shoot targets even in 3rd person mode. For melee classes, the are permanently in 3rd person mode, and there is no way to change that, but maybe if they just made it so everyone could toggle between 3rd person and 1st person depending on what they feel like playing, because I know that melee classes will probably have a few magic spells, or maybe some ranged skills, and some people just hate the idea of just looking at their arms, while others like it, and some like to appreciate their armor (while they still have it).

It really should be up to the player in-game, and the view should be toggleable.

[Fudgy_Neeples]

I think it should just be first person all the time like in most good FPS games. We really don't need 3rd person no matter how tight it is as it still gives you a better view of your surroundings than it normally should.

[mrroboto40]

A better view or whats in front of you, but what about whats directly to your sides and coming up behind you, it would be no fun if someone rode up on their horse with a halberd and raped you, you might hear galloping and clanking of armor, but you would still have to turn partially around to even see your enemy, at least in 3rd person view the view behind you is limited, but then again, I think it should be toggleable, those hardcore 1st person fanatics can have their 1st person mode, and the people that want 3rd person mode can have it, now one is upset, and you can always switch it around.

[itza]

Many people just don't seem to understand that if a choice is presented between 1st person and 3rd person, it's not a voluntary choice. If you want to survive in an environment where other people can see behind their backs, you have to use the viewmode that lets you view as much of your surroundings as you can. If you want to be competitive, you have to choose the viewmode that grants you as much advantage as it can. It doesn't differ from being forced to 3rd person view as far as the game lets you at all, because that's what you have to set your viewmode, no matter what you want to set your viewmode.

[coder1024]

this is sorta irrelevent since they've already told us there is both 3rd and 1st person views and you can switch between them by simply pulling out a melee weapon or putting it away. so you can control your view.

[Shadow Walker2020]

this is sorta irrelevent since they've already told us there is both 3rd and 1st person views and you can switch between them by simply pulling out a melee weapon or putting it away. so you can control your view.

Actually, its quite relevant.

People arent going to want to be walking around in town with their weapons drawn all the time. Not to mention there are players who just want to play in one parcitular view mode all the time. What about those who want to play in first person all of the time and dont want to have to leave it when they draw their melee weapon? What about those players in third person who dont want to have the camera automatically switch to first when they are casting a spell? (And yes, you can aim and fire a spell in third person. There are third person shooter games)

When it comes to view mode, its all about players tastes.

[psyonix]

this is sorta irrelevent since they've already told us there is both 3rd and 1st person views and you can switch between them by simply pulling out a melee weapon or putting it away. so you can control your view.

False. That is not control, that is forced camera angle shit like Shadowbane it fucking sucks garbage ass shit balls.

Either have it forced first person all the time, or allow it to be toggable.

I don't want it forced third and I don't want it forced depending on what weapon I'm holding either so those 2 fail in this thread.

[colorpilot]

Immersion depends on the person and the ingame environment and its appeal to the player, not on the view mode.

Everyone has different tastes and likes. Not everyone thinks first person is this all immersing view that makes everyone feel like they are their character. The same applies for third person. Ive played my fair share of FP shooters and I dont find it immersive at all. If anything, it feels very far from real life. Its makes me feel like ive got vision problems or something, like walking around with blinders on all day. But, on the flip side, I felt that UO, a unilateral top down 2d third person view game, was very immersive. And what make it this way? It wasnt the view mode, it was the game environment, how it interacted with me.

But, if you are one of those people who have to have first person to feel immersed in the game, then thats fine. But, it appeals to you. It may not appeal to 20 or 30 other people. The same applies to third person. I may not like first person, but there may be 20 or 30 other people who do. This is why a manually toggleable view mode is the best option for a game like Darkfall.

As for the combat advantage, that remains to be seen. Whether or not it provides some sort of advantage must be proven. The only way to do that is to have players actually engage in combat in game. But, considering how heavily this game relies on players skill, it is safe to assume that those who are experiences in first person PvP will fair better in that view mode with the same method of thinking applied to those accustom to third person PvP.

And to those who say you cant do well in ranged combat in third person obviously never played Star Wars Battlefront online against other players.

i completely agree after playing many PVP dependent/intense games e.g. Neocron and Planetside Bothe these games allow you to toggle between first and third person and it works fine . in Darkfall as it stands it seems that people who decide to go with swords maces rather than magic will get a advantage in the sense they will be able to see behind them and tbh if you are using third person you can still be stealthily killed even if the person does not have stealth in my opinion it will be extremely annoying if you cannot easily toggle between first and third person.

[Ace the Newb]

I think mount and blade did this really good, and if it's just a little like that i'll be happy.

[redclad]

Fan Question: Camera mode. Is it adjustable (changing back and forth between 1st and 3rd), is it forced and can we roll it around if not in combat (aka. with cumbersome system to prevent anti-sneaking tool)?

Tasos Flambouras: You can't see your character's face in Quake unless there's a mirror surface or your character gets killed. In Darkfall you can see it when on a mount, or on a ship, or when you're on your back incapacitated. We're considering a vanity setting where you can look at how pretty your character is without compromising the gameplay.

is it answering your questions ?!

[Shadow Walker2020]

is it answering your questions ?!

Not really...


It only referred to when you were dead, on a horse, or a boat.

What about when youre alive and on foot?

[Krej]

toggable between first and third is what I want, or only first. not sure.
but the thirdperson should be really close to your character and no hovering around with the camera orelse it will suck for them people that are going to use stealth!

[Elxu]

1st person always :P

[Slaker]

Id like to have the choice to choose wich views I want. But the thing is about the sneaking and stealth issues, I guess it would be more efficient if when you walk or whatever and not in combat to be in FPV so it would be easier on ppl to sneak on you.

[Kharr]

I want to be able to toggle also. Not really for combat purposes, mainly because I like being able to see my character, my creation, in everyday scenario's. Just running, hunting, etc. Besides, it's an RPG, it wouldn't feel the same without it. Even Morrowind had a third-person view, and you had to aim your spells on there also if I'm not mistaken.

If it really came down to one or the other, I'd probably be someone who voted for third-person only. Aiming spells in third-person might be harder, but not impossible. I'd say with practice one could do it. You would just need a bit more skill.

I do agree that third should be relatively close to your character though.

[boxfetish]

1st person always :P

QFT.

[Bloodgloom]

I understand why they feel there is a need to allow people to be able to toggle out to 3rd person in melee mode (for formation and friendly fire purposes) and I even understand that many people prefer a 3rd person mode for melee attacks (a good example of this was the recent "Shadowrun" fps game which toggled you out if you equipped a katana).

Personally, I would usually prefer to play in first person even when doing melee. I hope there is a key that lets you toggle quickly in between the two modes and an option to allow you to stay in 1st person while using melee weapons.

[Fooath]

Hopefully toggleable. I freaking hate first person. Until you can give me peripheral vision, and eye quality video, I want to be able to switch between the two. I'm not even sure how long I'd be able to tolerate first person only if there wasn't the option.

No, it's not "realistic". It's just as unrealistic as 3rd person...

[OvanOf Twilight]

Hopefully toggleable. I freaking hate first person. Until you can give me peripheral vision, and eye quality video, I want to be able to switch between the two. I'm not even sure how long I'd be able to tolerate first person only if there wasn't the option.

No, it's not "realistic". It's just as unrealistic as 3rd person...

Video Glasses ftw!
Once they get better resolution that is -.-

[Sunspots]

Manual toggle.

First Person
Make first person field of view angle slightly (perhaps 15-20 degrees) greater than normal human vision to help compensate for the lack of periperal cues.

Third Person
Make third person field of view equal to normal vision. Impose a maxium distance from the character to the camera and a minimum down to first person. Depending on the distance, such a view could show your toon perhaps from head to foot. Perhaps from head to upper thighs. Maybe less.

[Shadow Walker2020]

I want to be able to toggle also. Not really for combat purposes, mainly because I like being able to see my character, my creation, in everyday scenario's. Just running, hunting, etc. Besides, it's an RPG, it wouldn't feel the same without it. Even Morrowind had a third-person view, and you had to aim your spells on there also if I'm not mistaken.

If it really came down to one or the other, I'd probably be someone who voted for third-person only. Aiming spells in third-person might be harder, but not impossible. I'd say with practice one could do it. You would just need a bit more skill.

I do agree that third should be relatively close to your character though.

After watching the new video, I have to say that the third person that was shown was perfect. Its close to the character, you cant see behind them so they can be snuck up on, and it give a good view of your character.

A manually toggleable view would work.

[dirtknap]

I want everyone walking around in 1st person PoV untill they enter combat then scans out to 3rd person....otherwise everyone who runs around will be in 3rd person PoV and then no one can sneak up and backstab....

consider the real life scenario of someone running up to you to stab you in the back with a dagger in real life... it's possible but the attacker needs to be subtle in the approach phase (because someone unstealthily approaching you from behind is way obvious), and fast in the execution phase (before you get suspicious and turn around).

now consider in the game. even though real life is 1stP-only, we have things like peripheral vision and audio/visual cues that let you know there's someone behind you. a tight 3rdP view adds the peripheral vision aspect that 1stP view can't hope to replicate. so on that basis i think 1stP and 3rdP should be toggle-able - including for ranged/spellcasters - because the small amount of peripheral vision you gain from going 3rdP (eg: because you're cautiosly looking around) is balanced by the loss of firing access you'll have in 3rdP (because of parellax error on your targeting reticle). Regardless of view perspective, it should be reasonable hard to sneak up on someone and deliver a critical strike from behind because it *is* reasonable difficult to do that in real life unless the victim is preoccupied with something else.

1stP/3rdP toggleable at any time is the only choice that makes sense IMO.

old thread bumpage ftwin.

[Eternalsinner]

this poll fails.

its been stated what the view modes will be and they make perfect sense. why in the hell would you want 3rd person ranged, and why would they even bother making a bunch of diff melee animations if all you saw was your weapon in front of you slashing in diff directions? sure other people would see it but still...lame. plus your goin to need to see around you in melee because you can hit your friends, they said melee combat was much more enjoyable in 3rd person and blah blah. poll over. fail.

[Fluffington]

consider the real life scenario of someone running up to you to stab you in the back with a dagger in real life... it's possible but the attacker needs to be subtle in the approach phase (because someone unstealthily approaching you from behind is way obvious), and fast in the execution phase (before you get suspicious and turn around).
A sound system would work the same, you don`t need eyes in the back of your head to become paranoid. The sound of someone running when you can`t see them should be enough for a glance.

now consider in the game. even though real life is 1stP-only, we have things like peripheral vision and audio/visual cues that let you know there's someone behind you. a tight 3rdP view adds the peripheral vision aspect that 1stP view can't hope to replicate.
First person is the only way that makes sense when aiming manually. You won`t be shooting dozens of arrows a second anyway.
so on that basis i think 1stP and 3rdP should be toggle-able - including for ranged/spellcasters - because the small amount of peripheral vision you gain from going 3rdP (eg: because you're cautiosly looking around) is balanced by the loss of firing access you'll have in 3rdP (because of parellax error on your targeting reticle).
I have no problem with giving people a vision toggle, but this argument boils down to people wanting choice. Nothing wrong with that but a poorly written paragraph was a little much.
Regardless of view perspective, it should be reasonable hard to sneak up on someone and deliver a critical strike from behind because it *is* reasonable difficult to do that in real life unless the victim is preoccupied with something else.
The third person should not be enough to stop people from sneaking up on you, unless they are sneaking up on your right hand side.

1stP/3rdP toggleable at any time is the only choice that makes sense IMO.

old thread bumpage ftwin.

I would rather play test and judge. I want to fight you for bumping up the old thread, there is enough shit in GD without 08ers trying to catch up on the pointless conflicts they missed.

[Posseduto]

I personally like a 3rd person view for most of the time, but not zoomed out 100 yards from the character. I like it just a bit behind the head so I see about half to 3/4 of the character and how he actually fights in the battle. To me first person limits what you can see of how your characters is devastating your enemy. Of course in hindsight I think aiming a spell would indeed be more tricky when you aren't seeing from the character's view.

[dirtknap]

there is enough shit in GD without 08ers trying to catch up on the pointless conflicts they missed.

it's ok, about 90% of the 'old timers' on this forum are fucking dickheads who post shit that is just as stupid today as when they posted it several years ago.

the game is pre-beta, it doesn't make a fucking shit of difference when you join the fucking forum - everyone is entitled to an opinion, and if the developers are smart, they'll be taking everyone's opinion into account.

besides, it's clear that most people would prefer 1stP/3rdP to be toggleable.

[PermaSt0ne]

3rd person would be very helpful for melee combat

but mainly i want 3rd person because i like to look at my character. i spend hours making my characters in games and i make a bunch of outfits for them as well.

as long as 3rd person isn't bigger than WoW's 3rd person field of view, then it wouldn't be too big of a "break stealth" issue i dont' think. although being able to see whether the guy attacked your from back left or back right kinda sucks

3rd person can work when shooting bows too

[mfcrackers]

I prefer to be able to switch between the 2 at any time

[Shadow Walker2020]

3rd person would be very helpful for melee combat

but mainly i want 3rd person because i like to look at my character. i spend hours making my characters in games and i make a bunch of outfits for them as well.

as long as 3rd person isn't bigger than WoW's 3rd person field of view, then it wouldn't be too big of a "break stealth" issue i dont' think. although being able to see whether the guy attacked your from back left or back right kinda sucks

3rd person can work when shooting bows too

WoW's third person is what everyone is afraid of because a player can pan to a birds eye view which would ruin stealth.

However, a locked third person view, as shown in the melee combat screenshots, would be perfect.

http://www.darkfallonline.com/gallery/visuals/Darkfall_2006_09_22_18_21_44_68

If you look in this screenshot here, youll see that the third person in Darkfall gives a decent third person view but it also prevents the player from seeing behind them and can definitely be used in ranged combat.

[dirtknap]

WoW's third person is what everyone is afraid of because a player can pan to a birds eye view which would ruin stealth.

However, a locked third person view, as shown in the melee combat screenshots, would be perfect.

http://www.darkfallonline.com/gallery/visuals/Darkfall_2006_09_22_18_21_44_68

If you look in this screenshot here, youll see that the third person in Darkfall gives a decent third person view but it also prevents the player from seeing behind them and can definitely be used in ranged combat.

spot on the money dude.

noone wants to destroy the stealth game - a toggleable tight 3rd person view with no zooming out is all that's needed.

[Shadow Walker2020]

spot on the money dude.

noone wants to destroy the stealth game - a toggleable tight 3rd person view with no zooming out is all that's needed.

Its what ive been saying all along. Unfortunately, thanks to WoW, when people hear third person, they automatically think of a player watching their character from a birds eye view.

[Dark Necron]

Hands down, manually toggleable. It would be nice if we could customise it to automatically switch to different view modes with different weapon types.
Pardon my spelling...I think...

[dirtknap]

i think the "manually toggleables" have it.

[Sifer2]

Heh it's pretty obvious what the people want. As long as the third person mode is balanced gameplay wise im all for a toggle.

[Stax]

I voted way earlier for "third person all the time" and that is my "prefered" method of playing. But I totally agree in toggle's for people to choose what they want. So I hope the game allows toggle's.

[WizGamer]

If it's first-person all the time, I will quit.

[Daccus]

The past polls on this topic seemed to lack enough choices when it came to what players perfered when it came to view mode. There was one poll that came close, but it closed.

So here it is. Vote away.

And yet, you still didn't put up a choice for many people, how about an option for: It doesn't matter one way or the other.

I've played games with 1st person, 3rd person and a some that let you choose. What usually ends up happening is the game play is designed to work with the view or choice. I've never played a game where the view actually hinders the game play. UO worked very well with the 3rd person iso view, EQ worked best with an optional view, WoW worked great (for what it was) with a 3rd person view. Shadowbane worked best with it's view. Personally, I don't even see why this is a discussion, they've already said what the views are going to be, there's no way it's going to change.

[Lotharr]

3rd person all the way. The view mode should be ofcourse toggleable from 1st person to tight 3rd person.

The person who tells me a real reason about why there couldn't be 3rd person, gets a cookie.

[Bolter]

DarkFall will use a third/first person view. This means that when you pull a combat weapon out you will go in a tight third person view. If you use a staff(Magic), a ranged weapon, or a thrown Weapon you will stay in first person view.
From here. (http://df.warcry.com/faq/view/237)

I hope they implement that kind of a system, it is in a game called savage and it is rather well implemented, though im not sure how it will affect stealth but the impact shouldnt be too big.

[Bawlin]

Manually toggleable, but limited view in 3rd person.

[Wreatch]

If it's first-person all the time, I will quit.

Don't be a pussy.

[ThreatLetterBox]

Don't be a pussy.

I second this. Too many choosy little bitches here.

[Lotharr]

I second those. Too many choosy little bitches here.

But I don't like the fact that people will be able to loot my stuff!

[ThreatLetterBox]

But I don't like the fact that people will be able to loot my stuff!

Inorite! It's tehz fucking gai. I just want to play WoW and pwn people because I worked so hard to be capable of 'pwn'...

[Mr. Shi]

Manual Toggle. . Why wouldn't it be??

[Macbat]

I like first person best because it's the most realistic because you can't see people coming up behind you unless you turn around.

[Lotharr]

I like first person best because it's the most realistic because you can't see people coming up behind you unless you turn around.

You would most likely sense if someone is very close to you and breathing down your neck. Therefore tight 3rd person is more realistic.

[Nirgal]

There is no reason to explain why you want to play in the view mode that you want to since it is all a matter of preference therefore we should have the freedom of choice to play the game the way we prefer to play it. So a manually toggleable perspective is the best possible choice in this poll.

[dirtknap]

You would most likely sense if someone is very close to you and breathing down your neck. Therefore tight 3rd person is more realistic.

agree ^^^

[Shadow Walker2020]

You would most likely sense if someone is very close to you and breathing down your neck. Therefore tight 3rd person is more realistic.

Indeed. In real life, you would be able to hear someone coming up from behind. Not to mention you get that strange feeling like something is right behind you.

[kheled]

I voted manually toggleable, but in a game where you aim your melee, casts, shots, heals, etc. only first person really makes sense. Maybe tight 3rd person while out of combat could work, or 3rd person while steering a ship or crafting, but for all things combat-related 1st person is necessary.

[kingharvest]

Mandatory first person, for everyone, all the time.

Otherwise, i'll be using third person like the rest of you.

[Ultimoruss]

Manually toggleable, definitely.