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Tasos
04-21-2010, 11:58
We wanted to start talking about the issues immediately, but we feel that explaining what we’re trying to do is needed first. This introduction post, as well as all subsequent posts are the products of collaboration between several senior developers and our community and support teams, not the work of one author.

Since Darkfall’s launch and over the past year we’ve been very interested in taking as much feedback on the game into consideration as possible. This feedback comes from many sources: our community, from testers, external forums, from our support team, reviewers, bloggers, fan sites, players in the game, our own player experience with the game, listening in on race chat, IRC etc. Through our own findings and with help from the feedback we’ve delivered two major expansions, over 30 patches, and many thousands of updates, additions, fixes, and changes so far. These have helped shape the game to what it is today and we know we don’t thank you enough for all the great debates and the input, but we really are grateful for them. More importantly, all your feedback helps us determine the direction the game will move towards, and therefore it's important in shaping the game's future.

Any meaningful improvement involves a long process of planning, design, development, testing and follow-up. As you can understand, Darkfall is an extremely complex system and even minor tweaks have to be carefully planned and executed. Massive sweeping changes can’t happen all at once, so what needs to happen is a process of smaller improvements and changes which eventually add up to the massive change.

Over the past year we’ve identified, prioritized, and have been working on several focus areas that we feel need the most attention. It’s no coincidence that these are the areas we get the most feedback about by the community. In assessing these areas against the feedback we receive, we’ve confirmed there are real issues needing serious attention, but we’ve also discovered smaller issues magnified by perception.

It’s not always apparent what’s happening when we’re systematically working our way towards major changes within the game. We haven’t been doing a good enough job at communicating our long-term goals and the constraints we have to work with and this is probably why there’s also a feeling in the community that changes aren’t happening quickly enough.

As a result of these communication gaps, it may also seem that we don’t care, or that we’re not working on the things that matter. In reality we’re consumed with tackling the major issues, there’s a clear and detailed plan, a very strong commitment and a lot of work being done behind the scenes on every level. We’re also constantly trying to improve our delivery times by streamlining our processes, and by getting more developers on the job. There are currently numerous smaller things in the works in many different areas of the game leading up to larger improvements across the board.

What we’d like to do here is to take the areas we’ve identified one at a time, starting with character progression issues AKA “the grind” tomorrow, and addressing them by briefly explaining our past actions, our short and our long-term plans. We’d like to hear back from you on these issues and we want to keep you better updated on our progress towards our goals so that the feedback is based on real information rather than on speculation. This is something we’ve been working towards for a while, improving our feedback collection process, and developing the spotlight forum to handle this kind of interaction.

Our day to day activity is rarely interesting enough and it’s also difficult to communicate in a meaningful way. We also feel that it's a bad idea to talk about everything. We’ll do our best however to give you a broad overview of what we’re working on and we'll also try explain some of our reasoning so you can hopefully get a much better understanding of where the game is headed.


Thank you.

Valkyrior
04-21-2010, 11:59
About time :)

fjanor
04-21-2010, 12:02
Awesome.

foojin
04-21-2010, 12:07
But a nice post overall, just hope this isn't a one time thing :)

malebogia
04-21-2010, 12:07
Im a programmer also and Im dealling with clients.
Ok, we cant compare the scale but let me tell you what 10 years of logistics programming have tought me:
Talking with them and explain them, making lists with problems, explaining issues helps a lot.
Not beeing comunicative leeds to frustration and more problems.

Stormtrooper
04-21-2010, 12:07
Has AV finally waken up? Only time will tell! I am looking forward to your revelations. :rolleyes:

Ayn Sheron
04-21-2010, 12:08
cool

Teucrus
04-21-2010, 12:10
Please do not use this thread for suggestions unless they are directly involved with the community-developer interaction.

Hyperion roach
04-21-2010, 12:10
Its all well and good you saying this, tasos me old buddy, buth you have made lots of promises in the past about improving communication with the player base and to be honest it all kinda fizzles out after a few weeks. When was the last time twitter was updated?

Dont get me wrong i love this game and the people in it and think you are generally doing an excellent job, but if you are now telling us you plan to keep in touch and let us know whats going on you need to make sure that there is a regular update even if its a weekly "doing great not much to say really, loving you Jungle warriors right now" otherwise its all for nothing realy aint it?

axalon
04-21-2010, 12:11
What we’d like to do here is to take the areas we’ve identified one at a time

I really like this plan, and hope it will be followed through. Communication has been one of the biggest issues players has with Darkfall, and I have to wonder why this hasn't been done earlier.

I would also like the devs to explain why so many (promised before launch) features isn't implemented. I have no problems with the fact that they all weren't implemented, and I understand that there's a whole lot of technical considerations to each feature, but I would like an explanation, and perhaps a statement as to wether or not the features are planned for implementation in the future.

Rusic
04-21-2010, 12:11
Amazing post. Can't wait to participate in some of the upcoming discussions.

Visperas
04-21-2010, 12:12
Thanks!! I'm eager to discuss the grind tomorrow!

Alberton
04-21-2010, 12:12
What does this mean for DF2010?

ZtyX
04-21-2010, 12:12
Tasos!

The communication is good. For us the biggest problem is not knowing if our good suggestions will be implemented or not.

Laenih
04-21-2010, 12:14
As stated, please don't post suggestions here. There will be specific topics you can add your feedback and input.

Chances are if you start adding random suggestion here others will follow and it would lead to a flood of information which would be impossible to look through.

Make sure you voice your opinion in the threads about specific issues being addressed by the developers.

Thank you :)


For us the biggest problem is not knowing if our good suggestions will be implemented or not.

That is the reason the posts in question will outline the plans and offer you the opportunity to give further input. Chances are that feedback and suggestions which have been posted in the past have already been taken into consideration when it comes to future changes.

MortalZero
04-21-2010, 12:16
Thank you for these update. Imagined that for a small developer studio there is a hell lot of work to do for every single one in the office, letting not much free time on developers fingers.

A small remark about the "grind" because it has been mentioned in your OP. Don'
t let you fool by the potion of the playerbase who cry and whine about it. These guys want to PvP (and thats their good right) but don't want to participate in an MMORPG while doing it. if you follow those whiners you just wasted a whole lot of time designing such a big and beutifull world like you did on Agon. You had just to build a small island let everyone start equal with max stats and there would be all the trashing, stabing etc all these guys want implemented. Don't let Agon being reduced just to that.

If you put that discussion aside we can talk then about the real improvements Darkfall and Agon could use. *hint* sandbox mechanics aka circular game mechanics players can influence with tools you give em in hand and let players have more freedom on shaping the world. For example don't let the outcome of every crafting be in the same range and have players crafted items more differ- more on these in the upcoming spotlight's.

rbeck
04-21-2010, 12:17
Nice, i´m looking forward to hear more in the next spotlight.

Endlessly0
04-21-2010, 12:17
Thanks for the update!

foojin
04-21-2010, 12:18
Please do not use this thread for suggestions unless they are directly involved with the community-developer interaction.

The suggestion on the suggestion board (and bug report) seem to take forever (if ever) to implement, so thats why they are done here... :ninja:

peertje
04-21-2010, 12:20
discussing the grind. great :rolleyes:

smackyou
04-21-2010, 12:22
someone admits hes wrong is a hard thing to say :P

i hope the tide turns and will have a better year with more updates and fixes :)

thecool444
04-21-2010, 12:26
Awesome. Thanks guys for this :)

Thalos56
04-21-2010, 12:32
As a result of these communication gaps, it may also seem that we don’t care, or that we’re not working on the things that matter. In reality we’re consumed with tackling the major issues, there’s a clear and detailed plan, a very strong commitment and a lot of work being done behind the scenes on every level. We’re also constantly trying to improve our delivery times by streamlining our processes, and by getting more developers on the job. There are currently numerous smaller things in the works in many different areas of the game leading up to larger improvements across the board.

If this were true magic wouldn't be the only viable way to play for the last 8 months.
In these 8 months what have you done towards that?
Added specializations 4 months ago, hurray mage killer, oh wait magic is still op. 4 more months hurray 2 specializations makes it better, magic is still op.

ninogan
04-21-2010, 12:34
This is the first step. Good luck :)

Trying to get more developers on the job sounds like a great plan. Maybe you will actually reply to my job application if I send it again now.

Temko Firewing
04-21-2010, 12:38
Happy to see life on the other side of the Green/Red nametags, the yellows were getting lonely... and the blues, well they are blue already.


i belive none of truly care if you TALK about things, words only get us so much, screenshots are nice and all but... we want the sweeping changes you are working to, and have been working to. we all know you dont play NetHack at the office, but what we dont know is when and in what way we will see things changing.

everyone and their grandma has an idea how they want darkfall to look, but you are the ones holding the golden key, but keep it under lock making us not just frustrated but also annoyed.

now, change aside... the bad part of your communication is not your lack of information in regards to "upcoming " changes... it's issues of CURRENT aspects.

- Lag in sieges that have 1/10 of the number of players we had a year ago
- server crashes/instability
- Issues with paypal payments
...etc..

Saying you'll communicate more about upcomign changes is all great (you've said it before and nothing came of it, so color me skeptical) but we need communication on issues relevant at the moment.

hey, how about having devs/Communtie team post comments in threads? "Hey, Mounted combat is being looked at, but it's WAI atm". it's LESS then 30 seconds to do that and it's what the communitie team is for. (yes, i am aware they are also part of the QA team)

bmfof
04-21-2010, 12:38
As stated, please don't post suggestions here. There will be specific topics you can add your feedback and input.

I take it it'll be posted in an area where us shady unsubbed outcast types can participate?

Narcowski
04-21-2010, 12:44
Once again, continued good luck with the game. As an aspiring game designer myself, I can completely understand the pace at which changes are being made. Whenever someone casts doubt upon your intentions, I only have to think back to how far it has come since my time in beta.

The fact that I'm no longer a subscriber has more to do with being a poor and extremely busy college student than anything. Had I the free time, I would not hesitate to pick the game back up.

fjanor
04-21-2010, 12:47
If this were true magic wouldn't be the only viable way to play for the last 8 months.
In these 8 months what have you done towards that?
Added specializations 4 months ago, hurray mage killer, oh wait magic is still op. 4 more months hurray 2 specializations makes it better, magic is still op.

Watch Adun's pvp video. He's an archer. He rocks people.

His character is pretty new because he rerolled.

Stop your whining.

Laenih
04-21-2010, 12:48
I take it it'll be posted in an area where us shady unsubbed outcast types can participate?

Yes, non subscribed players will be able to post.

malebogia
04-21-2010, 12:49
Consider you have only one client in front of you and not thousands.
The 'one' client has bought an aplication, maintanance for application and some 'hours' monthly for new features.
Im sure you are using a bridge track, mantis or a form of 'roadmap' project that contains known bugs and features because the CLIENT is talking now with the PROGRAMMER and NOT the DESIGNER.
From your issues or tickets or what are you calling make a list. I'm sure is a huge list but for sure you can categorize them and give them short descriptions.

Put the list on the forum and update it every week:

Known bugs:
Memory leaks status OPEN
Grafic problems for element X,Y,Z status FIXED
Data base problems with arhitecture of whatever status OPEN
etc

New Features:
New skills status PROGRESS
New night/day system imporvement status DONE
New 2H weapon status PROGRESS

Roadmap project(I'm sure there is a wall over there with some info about it):
Estimate time for next hot fixes.
Estimate time for next next bigger patch.

What is the point, is it interesting for the client to know all of this ?
Yes it does more than you think !
Working with real time system is hard as hell, been there, done that, doing it now at the moment.
Problems are growing and growing, programmers are getting tired, testers are getting tired, yelling, cursing, etc.
What works today doesnt work tommorow.
Its all getting more and more frustrating as the project grows in complexity.

The client want results first but he will compromize if he is informed because than he feels that he is part of the project, explain him your every day shit.

squrrilslayer
04-21-2010, 12:50
this is good. Something in my opinion that should have happened a while ago.
However, AV is an idie company, a game like DF is not picknic. I for one appreciate the time taken out to explain the comanies goals and directions for the game.

Hekkr
04-21-2010, 12:57
bout time.

w0rm
04-21-2010, 12:58
Nice to see that this is actually starting to happen. Props to AV for this.

Simkin
04-21-2010, 12:58
Start using the top 5 leaders of alliances on each server as feedback. A simple questioniare with what do you think darkfall is missing or would improve would do wonders for you.

Chipatama
04-21-2010, 13:10
Hay, you know what you should do ?
You should make kind of a video blog about what's happening in the Darkfall industries.

That would be a nice way to communicate, show what will come in the next patches, show what you are workin at etc ...

Thalos56
04-21-2010, 13:15
Watch Adun's pvp video. He's an archer. He rocks people.

His character is pretty new because he rerolled.

Stop your whining.

Go 1v1 a decent mage and then come back and tell me magic is not op.
I know, I'm a mage.

Hekkr
04-21-2010, 13:22
Watch Adun's pvp video. He's an archer. He rocks people.

His character is pretty new because he rerolled.

Stop your whining.

And what kind of gear was he wearing? q3-4 feather enchant with bloodcrafted infernal etc. Silverbranch. What do you need for a mage to be effective? A bone set and a blackbolt.

Hekkr
04-21-2010, 13:23
I forgot you can't edit in this section of the boards:


Start using the top 5 leaders of alliances on each server as feedback. A simple questioniare with what do you think darkfall is missing or would improve would do wonders for you.

Good idea.

speedlovaah
04-21-2010, 13:24
Instead of making a progresive grind to reach 110 on stats it should be really fast to get to lets say 60? and then increase a lot the difficulty to go up from 60 to 110 that way new players can get fast about 300ish hp and become competitive faster but there is still something to "grind" to get a peak over the others.

Azdul
04-21-2010, 13:25
Roadmap project(I'm sure there is a wall over there with some info about it):
Estimate time for next hot fixes.
Estimate time for next next bigger patch.

What is the point, is it interesting for the client to know all of this ?
Yes it does more than you think !

We need information about direction of the game, priorities, and general ETAs (e.g. which quarter of which year).

However publishing detailed information about every fix may lead to "design by comittee", players trying to influence every decision, "nerf this", "boost that" - without proper checking what the consequences of the change will be.

Not mentioning publishing information about exploits which will be fixed in next patch, changes influencing prices of goods, adding / removing required components for crafting etc.

RonarcBracklaw
04-21-2010, 13:27
I take it it'll be posted in an area where us shady unsubbed outcast types can participate?

Honestly, if you aren't a paying customer, why should you get any input? :sly:

alako
04-21-2010, 13:27
I would also like the devs to explain why so many (promised before launch) features isn't implemented. I have no problems with the fact that they all weren't implemented, and I understand that there's a whole lot of technical considerations to each feature, but I would like an explanation, and perhaps a statement as to wether or not the features are planned for implementation in the future.

would also like to know this as well, always been my on my mind XD

alako
04-21-2010, 13:29
Honestly, if you aren't a paying customer, why should you get any input? :sly:

free trial, after that if they don't get the game, then it just throws them back to a non paying customer.

it would benefit the devs to hear why free trial people ain't paying to continue playing the game after their trial ends and what would make them play if certain good suggestions were added :)

raapnaap
04-21-2010, 13:32
Will be intresting to see tomorrow's grindy subject.

Temko Firewing
04-21-2010, 13:33
Honestly, if you aren't a paying customer, why should you get any input? :sly:

becouse we unsubbed for a reason... those quiting ARE the ones you need to ask for feedback.

Narcowski
04-21-2010, 13:39
Honestly, if you aren't a paying customer, why should you get any input? :sly:

Some of us still have good ideas. That said, I'd like my old "Beta Tester" tag back and two new usergroups ("Former Player" and "Trial Member"). If that was done, comments by random non-players could be avoided.

Sarphus
04-21-2010, 13:39
Sounds good.

We'll see how it plays out.

ISVRaDa
04-21-2010, 13:45
Good decisions :)


A small remark about the "grind" because it has been mentioned in your OP. Don'
t let you fool by the potion of the playerbase who cry and whine about it. These guys want to PvP (and thats their good right) but don't want to participate in an MMORPG while doing it. if you follow those whiners you just wasted a whole lot of time designing such a big and beutifull world like you did on Agon. You had just to build a small island let everyone start equal with max stats and there would be all the trashing, stabing etc all these guys want implemented. Don't let Agon being reduced just to that.

Agree with this.

fjanor
04-21-2010, 13:46
I haven't met many destroyers that can do this though. Probably indicating that it's harder to play well as a destroyer. Still, there are some who can and that's enough.

melipone
04-21-2010, 13:46
This is great news for Darkfall..I kinda regained some hope that I might get to play it and enjoy it again someday. Well written post, no BS as far as I can see, and it says what people want to hear really. I look forward to tomorrows insight into the devs feelings on char progression in DF

Theres some discussion from both sides in here, I'll just make the point that char development is important in any MMO and no one wants ZERO development. There are many factors that influence whether they are GOOD char development elements or merely lazy "click here more and you get stronger" however. If you have fun when you progress then there is no grind. Saying that tho, many players bought DF for a range of reasons, the least of which imo was to kill AI. I don't care if DF got the best AI on the planet, I would not choose to spend more than a small percentage of my time doing that. I want to get decent progression from crafting, traveling, pvping, general activities I might do in the game. I should not get the feeling I have to play a certain way or my character will never progress at a decent rate. I don't just want to PVP either.

I want to play an immersive game with long term goals, short term goals, consequences for my actions, a game world you can interact with with decent RPG elements. There is good atmosphere in the DF world, but not much interaction or a feeling you can really affect it (not much sandbox tools), and any RPG lore there is is undermined every day (race alliance). PVP to me is just the ultimate long term goal - learning the nuances and getting better than other players, by the way that I play in that encounter, rather than the way that I have played (my char level). It also adds to immersion if there is a feeling people are on different sides (good/bad/in between). I would also like some more inbuilt trading elements, and community hubs where players from different clans and alliances converge naturally

Najwalaylah
04-21-2010, 13:52
This certainly does say what many people would like to hear.

We will be watching with interest.

Good luck, everyone.

Slaker
04-21-2010, 13:58
Good news, can't wait for tomorrow.

melipone
04-21-2010, 14:00
Since I can't edit, just wanted to add to what I was putting about char development that although I feel progression is important for players, I personally do not need a carrot on a stick giving me a direction in what to do in a game like this. I have no problem with it tho as long as it is implemented in a decent way and doesn't just descend into a "click for levels" type of grind

Andro Bourne
04-21-2010, 14:01
Yea hate to say it might be alittle to late for that... should have brought that up before everyone quit the game... just saying.

Signus
04-21-2010, 14:07
Thank you for these update. Imagined that for a small developer studio there is a hell lot of work to do for every single one in the office, letting not much free time on developers fingers.

A small remark about the "grind" because it has been mentioned in your OP. Don'
t let you fool by the potion of the playerbase who cry and whine about it. These guys want to PvP (and thats their good right) but don't want to participate in an MMORPG while doing it. if you follow those whiners you just wasted a whole lot of time designing such a big and beutifull world like you did on Agon. You had just to build a small island let everyone start equal with max stats and there would be all the trashing, stabing etc all these guys want implemented. Don't let Agon being reduced just to that.

If you put that discussion aside we can talk then about the real improvements Darkfall and Agon could use. *hint* sandbox mechanics aka circular game mechanics players can influence with tools you give em in hand and let players have more freedom on shaping the world. For example don't let the outcome of every crafting be in the same range and have players crafted items more differ- more on these in the upcoming spotlight's.


I know we aren't really supposed to be posting suggestions and ideas, but I saw that this post was left alone, and I felt I needed to second it. A lot of the hardcore PvP players want little to do with the rest of the game aside from PvP, and no matter how fun and engaging you make the PvE or quests, they will never like it, just like to say there are others who DO. Don't sacrifice the depth of the world for a loud group of players. (but don't stop improving PvP either!)

Glad to finally hear from the devs. It's clear from the past few patches you've been listening to issues, like the bind kicking, but its good to actually see responses ourselves.

bmfof
04-21-2010, 14:08
Honestly, if you aren't a paying customer, why should you get any input? :sly:

If you rely on the opinion of paying customers alone, you'll get less and less input.

Also, I have been a paying customer since release until about 2 weeks ago. Finally unsubbing is my way of telling AV something's horribly wrong with their game. I haven't gave up on Darkfall, and it'll be a while before I completely forget about it and stop paying attention to the forums or the state of the game.

This here initiative is obviously a ray of hope for me, since it hints that I might be able to re-sub some time in the near future and find a game without all the flaws and downsides of what I've left behind. If I can influance that somehow, I think 14 straight months of paying for it give me the right to voice my opinion just like the rest of you monkeys.

muddymess
04-21-2010, 14:12
Yes in high level gear its balanced but thats the whole problem, you cant outdamage a blackbolt with a r50 bow, you need a silverbranch or infernal. No matter how rich you are, you arent rolling around in infernal and silverbranches every single day.

In the situation mentioned (a duel), I would use a silverbranch no doubt. However, out in the open it can be a bit too expensive to roll around with silverbranches/infernal etc.

Playing an archer role is hard, but it's more rewarding when you win over mages.

Crynth
04-21-2010, 14:16
A lot of fluff talk... looking forward to reading about the grind tomorrow.

Kimoshu
04-21-2010, 14:22
Yea hate to say it might be alittle to late for that... should have brought that up before everyone quit the game... just saying.

Those that left the game can return Andro, and most probably will if they get the answers that they were looking for. DF is an experience like no other and without any real competition currently on the market players will return in droves should the key drivers that pushed them away be addressed.

For the grind discussion tomorrow my ideas to "fix" the grind issues that I believe would satisfy virtually everyone:

1) Tweak skill/stat formulas so that there's much higher base stat gains but higher diminishing returns, keep overall leveling time to max the same. Stats are far too slow in the initial stages to get players some much needed HP/Stamina to have a hope of surviving. It should be relatively easy to get 50 to primary stats/skills within 1-2 months of semi-casual play and 3-4 months to reach 75 but 75+ should be where it starts massively slowing down leaving long-term progression intact. Only the higher advanced levels of skills/stats should be "grindy".

2) Self/Other buffs & heals are the only spells that are truly "grindy". Please lower the time required to get 100 in these by up to 1/2.

3) Add in secondary or tertiary ways to get dexterity, I've watched my stats carefully and beyond archery I don't believe anything else gives dex gains.

These are the 3 areas where most of the grind complaints come from, some complaints also come from melee masteries but they should be largely ignored; If melee mastery is made easier to get then it takes away from the dedication required to be a primary melee role. If the "1)" changes above were implemented it would address this anyways indirectly.

Looking forward to the discussion tomorrow!
-Andrew

BelegStrongbow
04-21-2010, 14:23
@Tasos:


You already put this community developer communication system in place with the spotlight. In my opinion All you really need to do is Update the spotlight more often as you did when the system was first released.

How does this differ from the spotlight we have now?

Teucrus
04-21-2010, 14:38
On topic please.

Laenih
04-21-2010, 14:41
@Tasos:


You already put this community developer communication system in place with the spotlight. In my opinion All you really need to do is Update the spotlight more often as you did when the system was first released.

How does this differ from the spotlight we have now?

The spotlight should be there to inform the community about everything involving Darkfall. Lately however a lot of people didn't show any kind of interest in what would be considered fluff (such as screenshots of art assets, talk about community websites outside of the official website, interviews, blogs and other general topics).

In order to have a clear distinction we will keep the spotlight to show new aspects, link to interesting blogs, articles or tools while introducing an additional forum section for the community developer interaction. Which will include posts about specific topics the community is worried about, talk about the direction we plan on going, including asking for your feedback.

Or to summarize:
Spotlight section: Everything we might find interesting linked to Darkfall including showing new screenshots and explanations of upcoming features.
Community Developer section: Concerns of the community, plans to change, improve, and we would like your direct input for.

Skinstripper
04-21-2010, 15:04
Lately however a lot of people didn't show any kind of interest in what would be considered fluff (such as screenshots of art assets, talk about community websites outside of the official website, interviews, blogs and other general topics).

What do you mean, alot of people didn't show any kind of interest? People at that stuff up! I loved the screenshots. And sometimes the only way to get new information about the game was Tasos' interviews outside of the official forums.

Not sure what you mean with this statement.

Arquiteto
04-21-2010, 15:09
It's good to see the effort being made to interact with the community. Good job AV. Knowing what is in store for the future keeps us players motivated.

By the way the screenshots of the new armor were amazing and would love to see more of those.

sdkyky1
04-21-2010, 15:22
Sounds like good stuff...hopefully this will help to reduce the sh*tstorm that has been surging on the forums the past few months. Just hope it is not too late. Open communication is never a bad thing.

Adûn_East
04-21-2010, 15:24
Great Post and pretty excited to here this. This is exactly what needs to happen for this game to live up to its blatant vast potential. Hope you guys genuinely follow through as you say you will.

sdkyky1
04-21-2010, 15:35
What do you mean, alot of people didn't show any kind of interest? People at that stuff up! I loved the screenshots. And sometimes the only way to get new information about the game was Tasos' interviews outside of the official forums.

Not sure what you mean with this statement.

Yea, this. It seems the posts about new armor models and the idea of more role specific armors got plenty of views and replies. i love that stuff, keep it coming.

Niburu
04-21-2010, 15:39
The spotlight should be there to inform the community about everything involving Darkfall. Lately however a lot of people didn't show any kind of interest in what would be considered fluff (such as screenshots of art assets, talk about community websites outside of the official website, interviews, blogs and other general topics).

In order to have a clear distinction we will keep the spotlight to show new aspects, link to interesting blogs, articles or tools while introducing an additional forum section for the community developer interaction. Which will include posts about specific topics the community is worried about, talk about the direction we plan on going, including asking for your feedback.

Or to summarize:
Spotlight section: Everything we might find interesting linked to Darkfall including showing new screenshots and explanations of upcoming features.
Community Developer section: Concerns of the community, plans to change, improve, and we would like your direct input for.

Thats simply a lie. people showed alot of interest as you can see in the replie's. Ofc this is forumfall and many stuipid answeres were givien but the newest screenshots were always source for a long talk about darkfall in many guild voice comm's

Teucrus
04-21-2010, 15:43
Thats simply a lie. people showed alot of interest as you can see in the replie's. Ofc this is forumfall and many stuipid answeres were givien but the newest screenshots were always source for a long talk about darkfall in many guild voice comm's

Keep in mind there was a lot of off topic posts that were deleted that where mostly complaining about fixing this and that or stating that they don't care at all about graphics when there are a lot more serious issues with the game. Of course you cannot see those but the liaisons can.

Niburu
04-21-2010, 15:50
Keep in mind there was a lot of off topic posts that were deleted that where mostly complaining about fixing this and that or stating that they don't care at all about graphics when there are a lot more serious issues with the game. Of course you cannot see those but the liaisons can.

As i said we are here on forumfall ^^ Yes there were many retarded post's that needed to delete. But everytime when a new spotlight came out it was a source for long discussions in 2 of the alliances in that i played. I only want to say it is false to say no one was interested in the spotlights........the majority was because we could see in which direction the game goes.

Temko Firewing
04-21-2010, 15:54
. I only want to say it is false to say no one was interested in the spotlights........the majority was because we could NOT see in which direction the game goes.

this.

Niburu
04-21-2010, 15:55
this.

so they didn't explained the strongboxes, chaos chests, new armor types before ? I enjoyed every spotlight that they posted and so others did. But suddenly there was no update and needed to discuss was shown in the suggestion area.

Nitsua185
04-21-2010, 15:57
I appreciate what you guys are trying to do, and I think it'll go a long way to improve this game, but I think it would help settle down the community in general if you could give us some kind of time table on these new features being implemented(whether it be broad or not).

natris
04-21-2010, 16:01
I welcome this initiative. I can understand how difficult it is to write about what is being developed(being a developer myself) and how hard is to update stuff like Twitter regularly.

I also agree with the grind issue being discussed, it is currently one of the most significant reasons why the population is so low IMO. Lack of sandbox issues is significant to current subscribers but it is the grind which prevents the growth of the population IMO.

kdchan
04-21-2010, 16:13
I'm curious about the grind issue, you took 1 year to realize that the main problem of the game is the tedious gap between old players (who macro and exploit everything) and the new players that leave discouraged after getting banned for afk swimming? :lmao:

Well will see tomorrow, and reduce the grind isn't something to think about so much, is a priority issue, no need to discuss or made plans in the long term. I know the game lack of content but is not an excuse to keep the grind so high.

We need more players in game, and player who keep to play, not player that leave after the trial. New players want fun with veterans, new players don't want spent 4 months to grind before to be helpfull in sieges. Hope you realize it.

Rocket Man
04-21-2010, 16:30
Tasos is awesome!

keep up the good work

in the meantime ill be playing darkfall :D

Keno
04-21-2010, 16:31
We wanted to start talking about the issues immediately, but we feel that explaining what we’re trying to do is needed first. This introduction post, as well as all subsequent posts are the products of collaboration between several senior developers and our community and support teams, not the work of one author.

Since Darkfall’s launch and over the past year we’ve been very interested in taking as much feedback on the game into consideration as possible. This feedback comes from many sources: our community, from testers, external forums, from our support team, reviewers, bloggers, fan sites, players in the game, our own player experience with the game, listening in on race chat, IRC etc. Through our own findings and with help from the feedback we’ve delivered two major expansions, over 30 patches, and many thousands of updates, additions, fixes, and changes so far. These have helped shape the game to what it is today and we know we don’t thank you enough for all the great debates and the input, but we really are grateful for them. More importantly, all your feedback helps us determine the direction the game will move towards, and therefore it's important in shaping the game's future.

Any meaningful improvement involves a long process of planning, design, development, testing and follow-up. As you can understand, Darkfall is an extremely complex system and even minor tweaks have to be carefully planned and executed. Massive sweeping changes can’t happen all at once, so what needs to happen is a process of smaller improvements and changes which eventually add up to the massive change.

Over the past year we’ve identified, prioritized, and have been working on several focus areas that we feel need the most attention. It’s no coincidence that these are the areas we get the most feedback about by the community. In assessing these areas against the feedback we receive, we’ve confirmed there are real issues needing serious attention, but we’ve also discovered smaller issues magnified by perception.

It’s not always apparent what’s happening when we’re systematically working our way towards major changes within the game. We haven’t been doing a good enough job at communicating our long-term goals and the constraints we have to work with and this is probably why there’s also a feeling in the community that changes aren’t happening quickly enough.

As a result of these communication gaps, it may also seem that we don’t care, or that we’re not working on the things that matter. In reality we’re consumed with tackling the major issues, there’s a clear and detailed plan, a very strong commitment and a lot of work being done behind the scenes on every level. We’re also constantly trying to improve our delivery times by streamlining our processes, and by getting more developers on the job. There are currently numerous smaller things in the works in many different areas of the game leading up to larger improvements across the board.

What we’d like to do here is to take the areas we’ve identified one at a time, starting with character progression issues AKA “the grind” tomorrow, and addressing them by briefly explaining our past actions, our short and our long-term plans. We’d like to hear back from you on these issues and we want to keep you better updated on our progress towards our goals so that the feedback is based on real information rather than on speculation. This is something we’ve been working towards for a while, improving our feedback collection process, and developing the spotlight forum to handle this kind of interaction.

Our day to day activity is rarely interesting enough and it’s also difficult to communicate in a meaningful way. We also feel that it's a bad idea to talk about everything. We’ll do our best however to give you a broad overview of what we’re working on and we'll also try explain some of our reasoning so you can hopefully get a much better understanding of where the game is headed.


Thank you.


Sounds good Tasos, just make sure the developers and liasons are INVOLVED in the discussion part and do their share fair of responding, or else it will turn into another suggestions forums.

DAA KAPUTTMACHA
04-21-2010, 16:42
Thx to Tasos and everyone involved in this new approach of communication.

Pls dont let this die as fast as the twitter thingy.

Kasmos
04-21-2010, 16:43
Sounds good Tasos, just make sure the developers and liasons are INVOLVED in the discussion part and do their share fair of responding, or else it will turn into another suggestions forums.

Basically this.

Aventurine, you have a golden opportunity to restore a LOT of faith back in you as developers and help bring back the forums and in-game community together in a positive light. Basically, this game has so much potential and already, despite it's major flaws, is such a phenomenal game, that most of us have simply dealt with your lack of communication because of this, but as you can see, the community as a whole was starting to seriously lose faith and I felt was reaching a breaking point.

So basically what I'm saying is that those of us still posting and still here and still paying and still playing have put up with your lack of communication, but I feel that if this is going to turn into another failed attempt at communication like Twitter became and like the spotlight forum (until today's FUCKING AWESOME POST by the way) had been for the past few months, it may be the last straw to break the camel's back.

So please, for the sake of your game and for the sake of you loyal fans, including those who still are playing/paying and those who still frequent the forums as past players who are currently unsubscribed but wanting to come back:

Be open, honest, and informative to us and don't let this opportunity go to the wayside. This opportunity could seriously be what turns this game around, or leads to its demise. The outcome is 100% up to you.

Leg enD
04-21-2010, 16:45
Sounds good Tasos, just make sure the developers and liasons are INVOLVED in the discussion part and do their share fair of responding, or else it will turn into another suggestions forums.

wow... u so important/pro/1337/uber/best thing to happen to darkfall


u fapping yet?

Keno
04-21-2010, 16:51
wow... u so important/pro/1337/uber/best thing to happen to darkfall


u fapping yet?

Just making sure this will actually benefit the community and the game.

And no, far from it.

Elemental
04-21-2010, 16:53
Wow, that thread in EU clan discussion helped? :p

xpiher
04-21-2010, 17:03
people bitch about the grind and yet getting any magic school but spell chanting takes about a week to get to 100. ABout the only thing left that are a grind anymore are buff, heals, debuffs, and maybe melee mastery because its boring. Then theres the HP issue, which is really the only thing people can bitch about IMO.

Kiad
04-21-2010, 17:11
people bitch about the grind and yet getting any magic school but spell chanting takes about a week to get to 100. ABout the only thing left that are a grind anymore are buff, heals, debuffs, and maybe melee mastery because its boring. Then theres the HP issue, which is really the only thing people can bitch about IMO.

IMO, people shouldnt have to level spells. Once u get it, its 99.9. I really don't get the reasoning for that. Same with WW/powerattack etc.

Keno
04-21-2010, 17:11
IMO, people shouldnt have to level spells. Once u get it, its 99.9. I really don't get the reasoning for that. Same with WW/powerattack etc.

agreed

Kiad
04-21-2010, 17:15
agreed

Its pretty absurd that it takes the same amount of time to level a spell to 100 as a whole school. More in fact because the gains are less on Mobs 3x as opposed to 6x. So you don't need fire to 100, you need fire to 100x5 for firebolt, fireball, magma, inferno, volcano.

Kshahdoo
04-21-2010, 17:15
Last year I, being a Russian gaming magazine editor (I'm not now so time's gone), tried twice to interview Tasos. Sure I got no answers... But I hope things've changed since...

MortalZero
04-21-2010, 17:17
IMO, people shouldnt have to level spells. Once u get it, its 99.9. I really don't get the reasoning for that. Same with WW/powerattack etc.

People have to have a chance to differ in the degree of how much their char is developed is a MMORPG and that idea is core to the genre. You make the progression skill to fast and everyone is master you on the safe side if you make it slow so there is a chance that all people aren't on the same scale.
Spell's differ at levels helps a lot regarding that.

vanyok
04-21-2010, 17:18
Instead of making a progresive grind to reach 110 on stats it should be really fast to get to lets say 60? and then increase a lot the difficulty to go up from 60 to 110 that way new players can get fast about 300ish hp and become competitive faster but there is still something to "grind" to get a peak over the others.

You can't eliminate skilling up aka "The Grind" completely. I know a few guys, for example, who log on and if there is no PvP they just log off... simply because they have nothing left to work on characher progression wise...
I guess this is a topic for tomorrow's spotlight or whenever...

Kasmos
04-21-2010, 17:25
people bitch about the grind and yet getting any magic school but spell chanting takes about a week to get to 100. ABout the only thing left that are a grind anymore are buff, heals, debuffs, and maybe melee mastery because its boring. Then theres the HP issue, which is really the only thing people can bitch about IMO.

Well that is your opinion. Let's see what Aventurine has to say on the issue because a lot of people disagree with you, including all the people that quit for this exact reason.


IMO, people shouldnt have to level spells. Once u get it, its 99.9. I really don't get the reasoning for that. Same with WW/powerattack etc.

I agree completely. Very eager to hear what Aventurine has to say about this topic because it's the most important one right now in my opinion.

GluttonySDS
04-21-2010, 17:29
Tasos -- just make DF a 3d version of UO... everyone wants it.

Draxous
04-21-2010, 17:55
More Q&A with the community is great. Maybe reward some of the more dedicated DFO fansites with the opportunity to host the interaction/chat with those running the game.

This would help motivate the players keeping fansites with information about the game. Would give the players places to go for accurate and up-to-date information... which would help clear up a lot of the misconceptions, I think.

Anyway, thanks Tasos! I'm looking forward to more!

thedrumchannell
04-21-2010, 18:03
AKA “the grind”

Why is this in quotes, as if you don't believe that the grind is an issue?

Ginger Magician
04-21-2010, 18:04
This post is what happens when enough people see the light and cancel.

Whether they actually intend to be any more interactive with the community I am rather skeptical about.

Paranoia21
04-21-2010, 18:04
opens up some .cfg file somewhere changes jumpshot to slot 1 changes aqua shot to slot 2
Done that took 5 mins lets roll this quick patch out and stop people from complaining, rather than wait 6 months to do it in a major patch

SidVicious
04-21-2010, 18:12
Its all well and good you saying this, tasos me old buddy, buth you have made lots of promises in the past about improving communication with the player base and to be honest it all kinda fizzles out after a few weeks. When was the last time twitter was updated?

Dont get me wrong i love this game and the people in it and think you are generally doing an excellent job, but if you are now telling us you plan to keep in touch and let us know whats going on you need to make sure that there is a regular update even if its a weekly "doing great not much to say really, loving you Jungle warriors right now" otherwise its all for nothing realy aint it?

SO TRUE!!!

devs hope you read this!!

World Dominator
04-21-2010, 18:15
Character progession
PvP Balance

Lets go!

Keno
04-21-2010, 18:16
Character progession
PvP Balance

Lets go!

siege performance!

World Dominator
04-21-2010, 18:18
I hope this post is true tbh. Keep us updated about the things you are busy with and work on priority's please. If you've been reading the forums the last couple of weeks you know where people are asking for. We don't want critters if PvP isn't balanced if you know what I mean.

Death's Chill
04-21-2010, 18:21
This should of been done a year ago, but I'll take it. It's about time. Let this mark a new age for Darkfall. :)

L-C
04-21-2010, 18:22
Any meaningful improvement involves a long process of planning, design, development, testing and follow-up. As you can understand, Darkfall is an extremely complex system and even minor tweaks have to be carefully planned and executed. Massive sweeping changes can’t happen all at once, so what needs to happen is a process of smaller improvements and changes which eventually add up to the massive change.


The problem that a lot of us have with that is most of your changes have taken forever, yet they always seem like you took the easiest way out. Just take player housing for instance. They could have been very complex, and customizable sandbox content. Instead we got static indestructable buildings in developer selected locations. Their primary function is to just be a secondary bind for easy travel. Even the method for acquiring houses and addons was disappointing.

Was this really something that took lots of planning and testing? It really just seems like something you wrote down on a napkin at a local pub and decided to implement between drinks. Same goes for pretty much everything else added. Sounds good when you post about it initially, but the implementation is so poor it makes us want to cry.

Death's Chill
04-21-2010, 18:24
people bitch about the grind and yet getting any magic school but spell chanting takes about a week to get to 100. ABout the only thing left that are a grind anymore are buff, heals, debuffs, and maybe melee mastery because its boring. Then theres the HP issue, which is really the only thing people can bitch about IMO.

stats are the only real grind, besides as you pointed out buffs and heals. Everything else seems to flow upwards surprisingly fast.

Kiad
04-21-2010, 18:25
Tasos -- just make DF a 3d version of UO... everyone wants it.

zomg exactly! i know it has to hurt the ego a bit just copying a game concept and updating it for 2010 but thats really all that needs to be done.

L-C
04-21-2010, 18:29
stats are the only real grind, besides as you pointed out buffs and heals. Everything else seems to flow upwards surprisingly fast.

Maybe it's fast if you have 8 hours of game time per day, and a nearby mob spawn that's easy to work magic skills on.

Krush
04-21-2010, 18:35
Our day to day activity is rarely interesting enough and it’s also difficult to communicate in a meaningful way. We also feel that it's a bad idea to talk about everything. We’ll do our best however to give you a broad overview of what we’re working on and we'll also try explain some of our reasoning so you can hopefully get a much better understanding of where the game is headed.
I think if you responded to the lack of advertising for the game, that would alleviate most of the communities concerns revolving around population.

World Dominator
04-21-2010, 18:37
The problem that a lot of us have with that is most of your changes have taken forever, yet they always seem like you took the easiest way out. Just take player housing for instance. They could have been very complex, and customizable sandbox content. Instead we got static indestructable buildings in developer selected locations. Their primary function is to just be a secondary bind for easy travel. Even the method for acquiring houses and addons was disappointing.

Was this really something that took lots of planning and testing? It really just seems like something you wrote down on a napkin at a local pub and decided to implement between drinks. Same goes for pretty much everything else added. Sounds good when you post about it initially, but the implementation is so poor it makes us want to cry.

I agree, and don't forget to mention the way you obtain one. With pure LUCK out of a chest? People need to do something for it, fight over it whatever instead of just opening a box.

L-C
04-21-2010, 18:41
I agree, and don't forget to mention the way you obtain one. With pure LUCK out of a chest? People need to do something for it, fight over it whatever instead of just opening a box.

I remember one of their old lies about never adding randomness to darkfall. That's why they refused to add stealth and stealing to the game.

UmbraX
04-21-2010, 19:31
Tasos -- just make DF a 3d version of UO... everyone wants it.

I'm with this guy.

BelegStrongbow
04-21-2010, 19:32
I remember one of their old lies about never adding randomness to darkfall. That's why they refused to add stealth and stealing to the game.

if randomness is needed for Stealing/pickpocketing I want it.

Signus
04-21-2010, 19:42
Why is this in quotes, as if you don't believe that the grind is an issue?

Obviously they do, or they wouldn't be addressing it. But "the grind" is a VERY subjective issue. It's different for everyone, due to the open ended nature of the game. Likely they'll talk about the overall game philosophy and how mechanics can be adjusted, rather than just "reduce x".

Strondomir
04-21-2010, 19:44
Please address the Alignment System and not allow ARAC. I still find this the biggest problem with Darkfall. I suppose if it were addressed to begin with, the game would actually be fun. Now everyone says they won't or can't have it. That turned me off to Darkfall right there. I would tend to think if the game actually had racial and political boundaries, it would give meaning to whatever race you choose. Another pitfall is just having one character. I would find it boring after a while and want to try a different race to see how it is, and still have my first character to fall back upon. But I have heard the naysayers too much about it and why it wouldn't be beneficial to have. It's all good, but I believe it would be a better game if VARIETY were allowed too.
This game isn't a sandbox at all. It's a box that's falling apart.

awfulnoobiex
04-21-2010, 19:49
This is awesome, glad you're seeing the other side of the page now, and maybe a voting poll within the game that can't affect real-time-pvp. :)

UmbraX
04-21-2010, 19:52
Skill.
Cap.

Make it happen. The game never should have shipped with no skill cap in the first place, and it's the main reason everyone complains about grinding because when it's possible to make your character capable of doing everything then you feel you're underpowered if you can't.

Mapi
04-21-2010, 19:55
Good to see some meaningful updates from Aventurine.

I feel however alot of the "problems" tomorrow will be voiced by the vocal minority you also see on the forums whining about alot of issues.
My advice to Aventurine is to shape Darkfall up according to their original vision which is why everyone started to follow the game to begin with, alot of "changes" that were inspired by the community over the past year have alienated alot of veteran players.

I will attempt to attend tomorrow.

KORVOSX666XXXX
04-21-2010, 20:09
Skill.
Cap.

Make it happen. The game never should have shipped with no skill cap in the first place, and it's the main reason everyone complains about grinding because when it's possible to make your character capable of doing everything then you feel you're underpowered if you can't.

this or a stat cap would help bring a lot of diversity because you would have to choose your where to disperse your stats and that would effect how your play style is but ofc they would have to make each stat make a bigger difference than it does now, but I like AV's defense "We don't want to restrict our players to certain roles with caps so we're going to add "specializations" that you can get and it completely disables your ability to use skills...."

Keno
04-21-2010, 20:11
I feel however alot of the "problems" tomorrow will be voiced by the vocal minority you also see on the forums whining about alot of issues.
My advice to Aventurine is to shape Darkfall up according to their original vision which is why everyone started to follow the game to begin with, alot of "changes" that were inspired by the community over the past year have alienated alot of veteran players.

I will attempt to attend tomorrow.

Agree 100%

xpiher
04-21-2010, 20:25
I'm with this guy.

I'm not, if I was I'd be playing MO. There are reason why UO 3d fails.

xpiher
04-21-2010, 20:26
this or a stat cap would help bring a lot of diversity because you would have to choose your where to disperse your stats and that would effect how your play style is but ofc they would have to make each stat make a bigger difference than it does now, but I like AV's defense "We don't want to restrict our players to certain roles with caps so we're going to add "specializations" that you can get and it completely disables your ability to use skills...."

No it doesn't :bang:

KORVOSX666XXXX
04-21-2010, 20:29
I'm not, if I was I'd be playing MO. There are reason why UO 3d fails.

What de-sync very inexperienced developer team with a very low budget? The skill system is not MO's problem at all it's actually one of it's strong points, it's problem right now is stability and de-sync. Seriously Xpiher you must be one of the most retarded person I've ever seen. 12,000+ post of terrible.

Draxous
04-21-2010, 20:34
Skill.
Cap.

Make it happen. The game never should have shipped with no skill cap in the first place, and it's the main reason everyone complains about grinding because when it's possible to make your character capable of doing everything then you feel you're underpowered if you can't.

No.

xpiher
04-21-2010, 20:35
What de-sync very inexperienced developer team with a very low budget? The skill system is not MO's problem at all it's actually one of it's strong points, it's problem right now is stability and de-sync. Seriously Xpiher you must be one of the most retarded person I've ever seen. 12,000+ post of terrible.

Its skill cap system is one of its bad points for anyone who wants the game to be about player skill no character skill. But thats not the only problems with the game. The fact that its a 3d UO with attached territory control is what makes it fail. I don't know about you, but I'm sure most people who play MMOs want a game with Core UO systems but have more to offer than just what UO did. For that to work you have to change some of the core UO systems. One of those is the fail RvB system, stat loss, and red status. It doesn't work well with a game that is suppose to have territory control. Xsyom is doing it right IMO.

KORVOSX666XXXX
04-21-2010, 20:37
Its skill cap system is one of its bad points for anyone who wants the game to be about player skill no character skill.

Ya cause everyone being able TO HAVE EVERYTHING is player skill not character skill....who ever has the most macro time wins!

Patriota
04-21-2010, 20:40
That's great, i really wanna see how this going to work.
However good move Av.

Keno
04-21-2010, 20:41
ya cause everyone being able to have everything is player skill not character skill....who ever has the most macro time wins!

mo sucks.

UmbraX
04-21-2010, 20:42
Its skill cap system is one of its bad points for anyone who wants the game to be about player skill no character skill.

Are you trolling or are you just too dim to realize the massive irony in that statement?

"I want the game to be more about player skill than character skill so let's make it so character skill gain is almost limitless instead of capping it."

:bang:

KORVOSX666XXXX
04-21-2010, 20:43
Are you trolling or are you just too dim to realize the massive irony in that statement?

"I want the game to be more about player skill than character skill so let's make it so character skill gain is almost limitless instead of capping it."

:bang:

Exactly, Xpiher is really really REALLY retarded.

xpiher
04-21-2010, 20:45
Are you trolling or are you just too dim to realize the massive irony in that statement?

"I want the game to be more about player skill than character skill so let's make it so character skill gain is almost limitless instead of capping it."

:bang:


Ya cause everyone being able TO HAVE EVERYTHING is player skill not character skill....who ever has the most macro time wins!


Exactly, Xpiher is really really REALLY retarded.


Whats retarded is you think that having every skill leveled gives you a distinct advantage and that you neglect balance

Keno
04-21-2010, 20:49
Whats retarded is you think that having every skill leveled gives you a distinct advantage and that you neglect balance

Whats retarded is having everything

Dingbat
04-21-2010, 20:49
Bravo Bravo. Excellent thread I really like what your saying and it gives me a lot of hope for the game and trust in the developers.

UmbraX
04-21-2010, 20:51
Whats retarded is you think that having every skill leveled gives you a distinct advantage and that you neglect balance

Well at least now I know you're trolling.

melipone
04-21-2010, 20:52
mo sucks.

DF beta sucked afaik. Just saying..DF 1 year on isn't all that either

MO is in beta, and has had less time in development and a smaller team than DF. I think it will be a kick ass mmo once the game killing bits are ironed out (desync)

Patriota
04-21-2010, 20:57
Good to see some meaningful updates from Aventurine.

I feel however alot of the "problems" tomorrow will be voiced by the vocal minority you also see on the forums whining about alot of issues.
My advice to Aventurine is to shape Darkfall up according to their original vision which is why everyone started to follow the game to begin with, alot of "changes" that were inspired by the community over the past year have alienated alot of veteran players.

I will attempt to attend tomorrow.

+1 for this.

Some did because they have worked hard to build their character and after months it become extremely easy to get magic, but guess what a lot of ppl still whine about that when it's pretty easy to see it's easy enough.
I really expect AV to consider the year of work most of us did to get ours character where they are and filter the crybabies whining about stats, magic and meele gains.
Tell us your plans and let us talk about that, take our feedback for those ideas and that's great.

Keno
04-21-2010, 20:57
DF beta sucked afaik. Just saying..DF 1 year on isn't all that either


What the fuck are you smoking bro? Darkfall beta and early launch was the BEST TIME IN DARKFALL PERIOD.

melipone
04-21-2010, 20:59
+1 for this.

Some did because they have worked hard to build their character and after months it become extremely easy to get magic, but guess what a lot of ppl still whine about that when it's pretty easy to see it's easy enough.
I really expect AV to consider the year of work most of us did to get ours character where they are and filter the crybabies whining about stats, magic and meele gains.
Tell us your plans and let us talk about that, take our feedback for those ideas and that's great.

"work" you mean. Left clicking bugged mobs, swimming afk, macroing, or even legitimately harvesting AI isn't work. It should not give you the sort of benefit in PVP as it does now anyway. You should have to get good at PVP to do pvp, not kill thousand more mobs

KORVOSX666XXXX
04-21-2010, 21:00
What the fuck are you smoking bro? Darkfall beta and early launch was the BEST TIME IN DARKFALL PERIOD.

It was only good cause the PvP was a lot more balanced (because it was only low level melee/archery and it also had the non-opposing magic schools which they should have never taken out) but other than that IT WAS EMPTY, and just had no content with the same broken skill system it has now that just creates a grind and makes your character the major deciding factor in most PvP.

melipone
04-21-2010, 21:02
What the fuck are you smoking bro? Darkfall beta and early launch was the BEST TIME IN DARKFALL PERIOD.

Maybe, but it still had a new feeling, and players weren't leagues apart in levels. If you don't like MO and would rather put all your eggs in one basket (DF) then fine, but if you take a look at mo forums they're more active than here..MO is more like UO than a FPS level grinder anyway, just got major issues to fix. Not the place to discuss tho..just noticed you say MO sucks here pretty regularly

Patriota
04-21-2010, 21:03
"work" you mean. Left clicking bugged mobs, swimming afk, macroing, or even legitimately harvesting AI isn't work. It should not give you the sort of benefit in PVP as it does now anyway. You should have to get good at PVP to do pvp, not kill thousand more mobs

I don't think you should be playing mmo bro, no more.

melipone
04-21-2010, 21:04
Not into pve level grinders like you anyway. I love decent sandboxes tho, with good char development.

xpiher
04-21-2010, 21:06
Well at least now I know you're trolling.

How many skills can you use in a fight? Thought so


Whats retarded is having everything

Why if you can't use it all during a fight and won't have to if balance was achieved?


DF beta sucked afaik. Just saying..DF 1 year on isn't all that either

MO is in beta, and has had less time in development and a smaller team than DF. I think it will be a kick ass mmo once the game killing bits are ironed out (desync)

MO's been in development since 2002

Keno
04-21-2010, 21:07
Maybe, but it still had a new feeling, and players weren't leagues apart in levels. If you don't like MO and would rather put all your eggs in one basket (DF) then fine, but if you take a look at mo forums they're more active than here..MO is more like UO than a FPS level grinder anyway, just got major issues to fix. Not the place to discuss tho..just noticed you say MO sucks here pretty regularly

MO is sunk bro. That game has absolutely zero hope.

xpiher
04-21-2010, 21:08
Not into pve level grinders like you anyway. I love decent sandboxes tho, with good char development.

MO doesn't have good character development. Its the same as DFOs right now with a forced cap that leads to every warrior type player picking up healing magic and archery for back hits, in fact, it leads every physical character to do that. So much for diversity bro:lmao:

melipone
04-21-2010, 21:09
MO's been in development since 2002

xpiher don't poop on another thread pls. This is from the FAQ:

Q: How long has Mortal Online been in development?
A: The concept for Mortal Online began in 2002, but the project began intense development in 2005.

Don't need to go on about it here tho

KORVOSX666XXXX
04-21-2010, 21:09
MO's been in development since 2002

Now I know you're retarded considering they didn't start development of MO until late '07/early '08 (which devs have stated multiple times) but hey keep trolling and I think your thinking of DF's development time.

xpiher
04-21-2010, 21:10
Now I know you're retarded considering they didn't start development of MO until late '07/early '08 (which devs have stated multiple times) but hey keep trolling and I think your thinking of DF's development time.

In that case DFO didn't start development until 2005. Also...


xpiher don't poop on another thread pls. This is from the FAQ:

Q: How long has Mortal Online been in development?
A: The concept for Mortal Online began in 2002, but the project began intense development in 2005.

Don't need to go on about it here tho

You are wrong

melipone, the games have been in development for the same time if you want to use their 2005 figure. so STFU fanboy

Yoda
04-21-2010, 21:11
Ya cause everyone being able TO HAVE EVERYTHING is player skill not character skill....who ever has the most macro time wins!


i going to spec fire/earth mage so i can has the most dps. i may reroll after next months patch tho. i herd they are gonna nerf meh. fucking learn to sue your brain before you post

L-C
04-21-2010, 21:12
In that case DFO didn't start development until 2005. Also...



You are wrong

melipone, the games have been in development for the same time if you want to use their 2005 figure. so STFU fanboy

Darkfall has been in developement since 99.

Yoda
04-21-2010, 21:12
Now I know you're retarded considering they didn't start development of MO until late '07/early '08 (which devs have stated multiple times) but hey keep trolling and I think your thinking of DF's development time.

have you even played MO? how can you even compare it to darkfall in the state its in

melipone
04-21-2010, 21:13
If you say so xpiher, I mean its not like you're wrong with 90% of your statements or anything :D

I have hope for DF, MO and Xyson btw. I think DF has the advantage only in that it has surfaced before the others, and it still has a large potential pool of players to draw from if they make it more appealing to the people who stopped playing

UmbraX
04-21-2010, 21:13
MO doesn't have good character development. Its the same as DFOs right now with a forced cap that leads to every warrior type player picking up healing magic and archery for back hits, in fact, it leads every physical character to do that. So much for diversity bro:lmao:

Diversity? What like the massive diversity DF with everyone having everything like you just said?

You have twelve thousand posts in under a year and a half's time, you're the physical definition of the word fanboy. Why would anyone take what you have to say seriously when comparing DF to other games?

KORVOSX666XXXX
04-21-2010, 21:14
i going to spec fire/earth mage so i can has the most dps. i may reroll after next months patch tho. i herd they are gonna nerf meh. fucking learn to sue your brain before you post

you know a skill/stat cap is not permanent right? You can decrease/increase some areas. Oh and how is that worse than "I'm going to just grind everything up and maybe after 6 months I can play."

KORVOSX666XXXX
04-21-2010, 21:15
have you even played MO? how can you even compare it to darkfall in the state its in
Yes I have played it.

I'm not saying it's better than DF considering DF has been out for a year now I'm just saying the developers are being smarter is how they implement their skill system. Once the de-sync issue is fixed MO will be in a lot better shape imo.

xpiher
04-21-2010, 21:17
Diversity? What like the massive diversity DF with everyone having everything like you just said?

You have twelve thousand posts in under a year and a half's time, you're the physical definition of the word fanboy. Why would anyone take what you have to say seriously when comparing DF to other games?

I never said Darkfall had diversity. I said that the lack of diversity in darkfall is caused by balance issues not lack of cap. I'm using MO as an example of where a cap doesn't mean diversity. Also, I'm not a fan boy, I just post a lot. I have more post in the OT and CD sections than anywhere else.

xpiher
04-21-2010, 21:21
you know a skill/stat cap is not permanent right? You can decrease/increase some areas. Oh and how is that worse than "I'm going to just grind everything up and maybe after 6 months I can play."

Because if the devs fuck up and make something OP or under powered then you have to grind more to change builds instead of just saying I'll switch now and then switch back latter, I already have my play style mastered its just not viable right now. Oh, and did I mention the fact that you can have a viable, although restricted character in darkfall in appox 2months? You know how? Focus training. Want to be a destory spec player, only develop the destroy spec skills, want to be a mage kill type player will go those skills, want to be a mage then go for fire and air. Honestly earth is only need for the min effects of stone skin because mages have crap physical protection to begin with so every little bit helps.

If the game was balanced better you wouldn't see these "need to" skills and people would naturally fall into the build/play style they perfer.

Yoda
04-21-2010, 21:22
you know a skill/stat cap is not permanent right? You can decrease/increase some areas. Oh and how is that worse than "I'm going to just grind everything up and maybe after 6 months I can play."

yes. access to every skill is balanced. skill cap creates the dreaded FLAVOR OF THE MONTH

JCatano
04-21-2010, 21:25
yes. access to every skill is balanced. skill cap creates the dreaded FLAVOR OF THE MONTH

Yeah, because we don't have FOTM skills that everyone currently uses... :rolleyes:

Anyway, since Tasos said they read RA... I guess I should stop saying "Tasos sucks".

xpiher
04-21-2010, 21:25
yes. access to every skill is balanced. skill cap creates the dreaded FLAVOR OF THE MONTH

Lack of balance creates that, FOTM and meta gaming is more apparent with a skill cap system. Skill caps aren't bad, they just lead to character skill > player skill due to built in strengths and weaknesses. It doesn't promote diversity anymore than a non-cap system does.

UmbraX
04-21-2010, 21:26
I never said Darkfall had diversity. I said that the lack of diversity in darkfall is caused by balance issues not lack of cap. I'm using MO as an example of where a cap doesn't mean diversity. Also, I'm not a fan boy, I just post a lot. I have more post in the OT and CD sections than anywhere else.

Well that's great but I never drew a line of comparison between a skill cap and diversity. What I said was a skill cap should have existed from the start so everyone isn't able to just grab every skill.

That roads leads to what we have now a year later where every newb is told "ok go afk macro or grind trolls for a few months and then you can start to be viable in PvP. Anyone new to the genre or just looking for a PvP game is going to just go :lmao: /uninstall.

They should implement a cap now but they can't because the vets who are keeping their game afloat would riot en masse. So you're stuck between the facts your game is hostile to new people and bleeding vets slowly.

KORVOSX666XXXX
04-21-2010, 21:26
yes. access to every skill is balanced. skill cap creates the dreaded FLAVOR OF THE MONTH

I'm so glad 90% of Darkfall are mages it's not flavor of the year or anything.... :bang:

Yoda
04-21-2010, 21:29
I'm so glad 90% of Darkfall are mages it's not flavor of the year or anything.... :bang:

so if they said you could only spend 100 skillpoints, wouldnt that force even more people to become fire mage or whatever it is. atleast this way i can play all three classes opportunistically. if i were forced to "spec" for one i would obviously choose mage if i wanted to win.

xpiher
04-21-2010, 21:29
Well that's great but I never drew a line of comparison between a skill cap and diversity. What I said was a skill cap should have existed from the start so everyone isn't able to just grab every skill.

That roads leads to what we have now a year later where every newb is told "ok go afk macro or grind trolls for a few months and then you can start to be viable in PvP. Anyone new to the genre or just looking for a PvP game is going to just go :lmao: /uninstall.

They should implement a cap now but they can't because the vets who are keeping their game afloat would riot en masse. So you're stuck between the facts your game is hostile to new people and bleeding vets slowly.

Thats a balance issue and people being retarded.

LordFunk
04-21-2010, 21:30
IMO, people shouldnt have to level spells. Once u get it, its 99.9. I really don't get the reasoning for that. Same with WW/powerattack etc.

Aye, treating each spell as a separate skill requiring leveling is retarded. Plus, the effects of each spell is level dependent, so you get exponential results leveling it to 100. You should get only minor extra damage and aoe splash area the more you skill something. Should be getting only minor additional benefits to maxxxing out something (like x2 damage and x1.5 aoe radius) rather than wholescale magic OPness (the x4 damage and x4 aoe radius). Get magic balanced already.

KORVOSX666XXXX
04-21-2010, 21:31
Thats a balance issue and people being retarded.

Xpiher just go read any of the old polls out there about skill/stat caps and the vast majority agree that caps are the way to go, I'm sorry you're bad

Niburu
04-21-2010, 21:43
Xpiher just go read any of the old polls out there about skill/stat caps and the vast majority agree that caps are the way to go, I'm sorry you're bad

because the people don't knwo it better. All we need is specialisations and if you choose to do all ( meele/Magic/archery) you are not as good as someone who hase choosen a spec. Atm magic is OP and it is OP that it is better to not specialize in some way

KORVOSX666XXXX
04-21-2010, 21:47
because the people don't knwo it better. All we need is specialisations and if you choose to do all ( meele/Magic/archery) you are not as good as someone who hase choosen a spec. Atm magic is OP and it is OP that it is better to not specialize in some way

Caps create more diverse and customizable play styles considering you can choose any combination of skills you want (sure not all will be 100% viable but a lot will be pretty good) than specializations(classes)with pre-set mechanics.

xpiher
04-21-2010, 21:57
Caps create more diverse and customizable play styles considering you can choose any combination of skills you want (sure not all will be 100% viable but a lot will be pretty good) than specializations(classes)with pre-set mechanics.

No it doesn't create more diversity. I debunked that awhile ago. There becomes a hand full of builds that are viable due to the inherent limitations, strengths and weakness, of the system.


because the people don't knwo it better. All we need is specialisations and if you choose to do all ( meele/Magic/archery) you are not as good as someone who hase choosen a spec. Atm magic is OP and it is OP that it is better to not specialize in some way

I wouldn't necessarily call the specialization system better than no caps of any kind, but its a fair and easier system to balance than a hard cap system (of any type)

KORVOSX666XXXX
04-21-2010, 22:00
No it doesn't create more diversity. I debunked that awhile ago. There becomes a hand full of builds that are viable due to the inherent limitations, strengths and weakness, of the system.



I wouldn't necessarily call the specialization system better than no caps of any kind, but its a fair and easier system to balance than a hard cap system (of any type)

So you want hard coded classes? k

xpiher
04-21-2010, 22:03
So you want hard coded classes? k

No, I want a balanced game. A cap system leads to defacto classes because some builds work and others don't, the specialization leads to the same thing but its much easier to balance. I'd rather AV not added specialzation and just balanced the current game, but that would of been against the wishes of many people. So the specialization system is a fair compromise that doesn't diminish player skill > character skill between no caps at all and caps

labron
04-21-2010, 22:04
I'm not, if I was I'd be playing MO. There are reason why UO 3d fails.

Seriously who the fuck is this retard? From now on I wont read any shit you post because is just a waste of time...
Do you maybe feel wiser or cool by saying weird shit that nobody even consider ? Dont you realise youre on a lone ship wasting your life in this forum?
Nobody gives a crap about what you say wether you have 12k+ posts or 200k+ because anyone with minimum inteligence will give the middle finger to you and your pathetic bullshit.
You even got caught exploiting mobs like the retard you are yet you come here and still post shit.
UO was one of the most awesome games in existance, UO on 3d would literally empty Eve/DF/MO servers in a glimpse of a second. So shut the fuck up and if you feel the need of posting by the sake of it go to somethingawful.

xpiher
04-21-2010, 22:06
Seriously who the fuck is this retard? From now on I wont read any shit you post because is just a waste of time...
Do you maybe feel wiser or cool by saying weird shit that nobody even consider ? Dont you realise youre on a lone ship wasting your life in this forum?
Nobody gives a crap about what you say wether you have 12k+ posts or 200k+ because anyone with minimum inteligence will give the middle finger to you and your pathetic bullshit.
You even got caught exploiting mobs like the retard you are yet you come here and still post shit.
UO was one of the most awesome games in existance, UO on 3d would literally empty Eve/DF/MO servers in a glimpse of a second. So shut the fuck up and if you feel the need of posting by the sake of it go to somethingawful.

No it wouldn't because the masses expect more form a game than what UO offered. The masses want territory control, they want more active combat, they want a deeper alignment system. If you don't think thats what people want you haven't stepped into any other game since UO.

JCatano
04-21-2010, 22:06
No it doesn't create more diversity. I debunked that awhile ago. There becomes a hand full of builds that are viable due to the inherent limitations, strengths and weakness, of the system.

You're arrogant in an ignorant manner. You didn't debunk anything. I'm going to keep throwing the word "opinion" out out since you still don't get it, even though you say you do.

If you debunked it in your own head supported by your opinion, then sure... You "debunked" it.

McDoogs
04-21-2010, 22:07
As you can understand, Darkfall is an extremely complex system and even minor tweaks have to be carefully planned and executed. Massive sweeping changes can’t happen all at once, so what needs to happen is a process of smaller improvements and changes which eventually add up to the massive change.



I had to lol at this coming from a developer who releases less than a patch a month

Keno
04-21-2010, 22:08
I had to lol at this coming from a developer who releases less than a patch a month

-Changed dwarven trees and buildings

lolol

KORVOSX666XXXX
04-21-2010, 22:09
No it wouldn't because the masses expect more form a game than what UO offered.

The masses want territory control- well DF failed at making a meaningful conquest system...

they want more active combat- hybrid combat with no skill nukes....

they want a deeper alignment system- DF HAS THE BEST ALIGNMENT SYSTEM EVAH! :lmao:

If you don't think thats what people want you haven't stepped into any other game since UO.

stop speaking for "the masses" please.

JCatano
04-21-2010, 22:09
Seriously who the fuck is this retard? From now on I wont read any shit you post because is just a waste of time...
Do you maybe feel wiser or cool by saying weird shit that nobody even consider ? Dont you realise youre on a lone ship wasting your life in this forum?
Nobody gives a crap about what you say wether you have 12k+ posts or 200k+ because anyone with minimum inteligence will give the middle finger to you and your pathetic bullshit.
You even got caught exploiting mobs like the retard you are yet you come here and still post shit.
UO was one of the most awesome games in existance, UO on 3d would literally empty Eve/DF/MO servers in a glimpse of a second. So shut the fuck up and if you feel the need of posting by the sake of it go to somethingawful.

I want the dirt on xpiher!

Him exploiting mobs is funny and incredibly ironic with regard to his "there is no grind" stance.

What a dolt.

xpiher
04-21-2010, 22:19
You're arrogant in an ignorant manner. You didn't debunk anything. I'm going to keep throwing the word "opinion" out out since you still don't get it, even though you say you do.

If you debunked it in your own head supported by your opinion, then sure... You "debunked" it.

No I debunked it in reality. This time I'm stating a fact, most of the time I state opinions without the IMO qualifier. It is a fact that real diversity isn't achieved with a cap because not every single combination of skills are viable. What happens is a handful of builds are viable and everyone uses those. Its a defacto class system. I don't understand why you and others don't see this, but whatever.

xpiher
04-21-2010, 22:21
I want the dirt on xpiher!

Him exploiting mobs is funny and incredibly ironic with regard to his "there is no grind" stance.

What a dolt.

Exploiting monsters have nothing to do with gains and everythign to do with just being easy. People blocking in the devil was exploiting? People using the hive queen to level? People getting a mob stuck on a ramp done because the game is too grindy? Why were they doing it? Was it because of the grind? No, its because it simply easier/more profitable to do. I got my melee masteries through legit play all three of them

xpiher
04-21-2010, 22:23
stop speaking for "the masses" please.

Why did you assume that I think DFO has anything good with those? Maybe you should read my suggestion threads instead of getting pissed off because I don't agree with you on 1 point which is that UO should stay UO and everything made after it should be something better not a carbon copy

KORVOSX666XXXX
04-21-2010, 22:24
Why did you assume that I think DFO has anything good with those? Maybe you should read my suggestion threads instead of getting pissed off because I don't agree with you on 1 point which is that UO should stay UO and everything made after it should be something better not a carbon copy

but nothing after UO has been better

and you're bad

JCatano
04-21-2010, 22:25
No I debunked it in reality. This time I'm stating a fact, most of the time I state opinions without the IMO qualifier. It is a fact that real diversity isn't achieved with a cap because not every single combination of skills are viable. What happens is a handful of builds are viable and everyone uses those. Its a defacto class system. I don't understand why you and others don't see this, but whatever.

Xpiher (yes a capital letter), that's exactly what we have now...

Debunk that.

xpiher
04-21-2010, 22:28
Xpiher (yes a capital letter), that's exactly what we have now...

Debunk that.

What we have now are problems caused by a huge lack of balance. With balance people naturally filter to the play styles they perfer because all play-styles are useful and need, and you can't possibly use every skill all the time (time wise or skill bar wise). What we have is a lack of balance, nothing more nothing less.

xpiher
04-21-2010, 22:29
For the love of god AV let us edit our pose in these sections grr

Anyways, the point is what you want, diversity, isn't achieved without balance but can be achieved without a cap. You can get balance without a cap in games that don't have massive amounts of unique skills such as stuns, roots, snares, etc.

JCatano
04-21-2010, 22:40
What we have now are problems caused by a huge lack of balance. With balance people naturally filter to the play styles they perfer because all play-styles are useful and need, and you can't possibly use every skill all the time (time wise or skill bar wise). What we have is a lack of balance, nothing more nothing less.

No, if everything was balanced at the moment, most people would still use everything. Buffs, heals, transfers, damage types, magic, melee, archery, etc., etc. Why? Because they'd all be equally useful and they'd be allowed to do so.

I don't care if you can't use them at one time. That has nothing to do with the issue. You can't do anything at one time in any system.

You want the "golden child" character.

Others want tradeoffs. (You know... Those things that make for good games.)

You don't want tradeoffs. You admitted that when you said something about wanting to adapt to all situations.

Keep on "debunking", Great One.

xpiher
04-21-2010, 22:50
No, if everything was balanced at the moment, most people would still use everything. Buffs, heals, transfers, damage types, magic, melee, archery, etc., etc. Why? Because they'd all be equally useful and they'd be allowed to do so.

No they wouldn't because there would be no point to. With balance you get redundancy for having everything. Why use a bow when bolts are just as effective or visa versa? Why train up all buffs if you can't use all buffs effectively? Why train 1h and 2h if both are basically equally as effective? There are trade offs in the system, just not hard coded in a way that says you can't have access to these skills because you have those already.

Note: Allowing everyone to have all buffs active is a balance issue, having access to them is not. A person probably shouldn't be able to have more than 3 self buffs active on them at one time, 5-7 buffs total. Theres trade offs in the system, just not hard coded you can't have this skill because you have that one.

Same thing with sword and board vs 2h. The trade off comes from skill usage and not being able to effectively switch weapons quick enough to pop out skills then switching back. 1h and board skills should exist in the game that require you to have both equipped to activate, thus the trade off but not a limit in access.

And I do want trade offs, but not skill access limitations or trade offs that lead to character > player like you want.

nisco17
04-21-2010, 22:56
No, if everything was balanced at the moment, most people would still use everything. Buffs, heals, transfers, damage types, magic, melee, archery, etc., etc. Why? Because they'd all be equally useful and they'd be allowed to do so.

I don't care if you can't use them at one time. That has nothing to do with the issue. You can't do anything at one time in any system.

You want the "golden child" character.

Others want tradeoffs. (You know... Those things that make for good games.)

You don't want tradeoffs. You admitted that when you said something about wanting to adapt to all situations.

Keep on "debunking", Great One.

I'm going to have to agree with this. The game has been going on for over a year without any major type of tradeoff system. Specializations were "getting there", but they were implemented in a "counter" system that only makes you see your character's particular benefits in a specific situation, which I guess is specialization but not in the right direction.

If you can have everything, there will always be that set of skills that simply having will make your character a lot more viable and versatile. For example it's pretty much a given that you should "get at least two r50 nukes, sacrifice, WB, Confusion, maxed melee and archery".

JCatano
04-21-2010, 23:22
Taken from the mount thread:


Opinion or fact?

Absolutely fact. No tradeoffs make for crappy MMOs. Darkfall has helped to prove that.

Opportunity costs allow dynamic gameplay, so that more people can be deeply involved. That helps keep a massive multi-player game alive, ya know.

---------

Patterns of Game Design by Staffan Björk and Jussi Holopainen

Planning

The following patterns deal with ways either to encourage the players to plan their actions beforehand or to limit the scope of planning to balance the gameplay.

Tradeoffs

The player must choose between several different options and compare values against each other.

For choices to be interesting in games, they need to be challenging. One way choices can be difficult to do is if they have different sorts of advantages or the advantages are coupled with disadvantages. In this case, there does not have to be one choice that is easily identifiable as the best, and players have to do tradeoffs instead.

http://books.google.com/books?id=IFQfyODK4wAC&pg=PA372&lpg=PA372&dq=should+game+have+tradeoffs&source=bl&ots=iwkoD4Ixho&sig=G3E2bwAXCYhbzwjF2YormupOEdE&hl=en&ei=oHHPS6nQLpCyswP4h_muDg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CBUQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=should%20game%20have%20tradeoffs&f=false

-----

Darkfall doesn't have tradeoffs except for a specialization system that is nothing more than classes, especially considering that they've said the goal is to move people into more defined roles and longer term choices. While that is better than what we have now, I'd rather not be lumped into preset specializations. On the other hand, hybrids should not dominate. They should be a master-of-none, instead of a the current master-of-everything.

Draxous
04-22-2010, 01:11
No, if everything was balanced at the moment, most people would still use everything. Buffs, heals, transfers, damage types, magic, melee, archery, etc., etc. Why? Because they'd all be equally useful and they'd be allowed to do so.

I don't care if you can't use them at one time. That has nothing to do with the issue. You can't do anything at one time in any system.

You want the "golden child" character.

Others want tradeoffs. (You know... Those things that make for good games.)

You don't want tradeoffs. You admitted that when you said something about wanting to adapt to all situations.

Keep on "debunking", Great One.

You already have tradeoffs. Pigeon holing someone into one playstyle is NOT the way to accomplish anything. Gear and specializations is great. They could add more skills like rage (healing with bandages?) and give more choices for trade offs. This system is so unique it's infant.

no one can adapt to all situations. You capitalizing on one guys goof doesn't make your case.

Having crafters being unable to explore dungeons or defend themselves properly are not "tradeoffs" and the WORST thing you could do to this game.

NO THANK YOU to those kinds of trade offs.

THANK YOU for pioneering a great character system AV!


PS> I would like to see the system expanded upon. Id like to see discussions of what people think about necromancers or paladins, but not in a system where you don't have to be only 1 thing forever.

Draxous
04-22-2010, 01:14
Darkfall doesn't have tradeoffs except for a specialization system that is nothing more than classes, especially considering that they've said the goal is to move people into more defined roles and longer term choices. While that is better than what we have now, I'd rather not be lumped into preset specializations. On the other hand, hybrids should not dominate. They should be a master-of-none, instead of a the current master-of-everything.

I hope you know a skill cap system would give you preset specializations...

People usually call them "templates" in case you didn't know.


Darkfall even has them.

And if you think people really enjoy making long term decisions they can never take back, then things like race change wouldnt be so highly anticipated.

Again... NO THANK YOU.

JCatano
04-22-2010, 02:02
You already have tradeoffs. Pigeon holing someone into one playstyle is NOT the way to accomplish anything. Gear and specializations is great. They could add more skills like rage (healing with bandages?) and give more choices for trade offs. This system is so unique it's infant.

no one can adapt to all situations. You capitalizing on one guys goof doesn't make your case.

Having crafters being unable to explore dungeons or defend themselves properly are not "tradeoffs" and the WORST thing you could do to this game.

NO THANK YOU to those kinds of trade offs.

THANK YOU for pioneering a great character system AV!


PS> I would like to see the system expanded upon. Id like to see discussions of what people think about necromancers or paladins, but not in a system where you don't have to be only 1 thing forever.

You are short-sighted with your tradeoffs. Who said a crafter couldn't have any combat skills? I certainly didn't.

Unique? :lmao:

AV didn't pioneer anything. Anyway...

Currently, I can be a "Destroyer" with a bit of Fire. Oh wait....

Let's see... I can be master-of-all, or take a preset specialization. Man, you're right! Epic pioneering by AV!

I'd rather make my own build, but with the actual thought of real tradeoffs that have more depth than just worrying about encumbrance. But, who needs tradeoffs? I'll just master every, single skill.

Weak carrot.

Liquid20
04-22-2010, 02:45
Looking forward to the discussion on grind tomorrow.:)

xpiher
04-22-2010, 03:23
If you can have everything, there will always be that set of skills that simply having will make your character a lot more viable and versatile. For example it's pretty much a given that you should "get at least two r50 nukes, sacrifice, WB, Confusion, maxed melee and archery".

Because the game isn't balanced. With a proper cap system would potentially have all that as well. The fact that you have to have 2 r50 nukes proves theres imbalance (healing is a different animal). Having 1 50nuke and a leveled bolt spell should be what the system dictates as a good mage for 90% of situations. Having more than 1 r50 nuke should only be good for sieges, and even then not required.

JCanto, the whole reason for the specialization system is because people like you complained about lack of trade offs. Well there you go, trade offs that don't completely screw your character over and doesn't force you to do things you don't like or are imbalanced forever.

JCatano
04-22-2010, 04:03
Because the game isn't balanced. With a proper cap system would potentially have all that as well. The fact that you have to have 2 r50 nukes proves theres imbalance (healing is a different animal). Having 1 50nuke and a leveled bolt spell should be what the system dictates as a good mage for 90% of situations. Having more than 1 r50 nuke should only be good for sieges, and even then not required.

JCanto, the whole reason for the specialization system is because people like you complained about lack of trade offs. Well there you go, trade offs that don't completely screw your character over and doesn't force you to do things you don't like or are imbalanced forever.


Because the game isn't balanced. With a proper cap system would potentially have all that as well. The fact that you have to have 2 r50 nukes proves theres imbalance (healing is a different animal). Having 1 50nuke and a leveled bolt spell should be what the system dictates as a good mage for 90% of situations. Having more than 1 r50 nuke should only be good for sieges, and even then not required.

JCanto, the whole reason for the specialization system is because people like you complained about lack of trade offs. Well there you go, trade offs that don't completely screw your character over and doesn't force you to do things you don't like or are imbalanced forever.

Xtire, we all know what the wonderful specialization system is for (besides just laziness on their part). And... You can't screw your character up if skills can be dropped.

I'll wait for your "But I don't want to keep grinding skills!" post... Even though that's currently what you're doing.

Askeladden
04-22-2010, 04:18
Great... 10 pages of the same handful forum freaks arguing with eachother.. again.

xpiher
04-22-2010, 04:19
Xtire, we all know what the wonderful specialization system is for (besides just laziness on their part). And... You can't screw your character up if skills can be dropped.

I'll wait for your "But I don't want to keep grinding skills!" post... Even though that's currently what you're doing.

Its not currently what I'm doing because if I want to switch builds I don't have to regrind to do so.

JCatano
04-22-2010, 04:33
Its not currently what I'm doing because if I want to switch builds I don't have to regrind to do so.

You're currently grinding every skill, because you can. You being caught exploiting mobs likely proves that. You also assume that you'd have to regrind every skill if there was a cap. Who says they'd all be so imbalanced you'd be switching every patch? I played DAoC for 6 years and never needed to switch an "OP" spec.

We have to be happy with classes soon, anyway, so everyone needs to get used to it.

xpiher
04-22-2010, 04:59
You're currently grinding every skill, because you can. You being caught exploiting mobs likely proves that. You also assume that you'd have to regrind every skill if there was a cap. Who says they'd all be so imbalanced you'd be switching every patch? I played DAoC for 6 years and never needed to switch an "OP" spec.

We have to be happy with classes soon, anyway, so everyone needs to get used to it.

I didn't exploit mobs to grind, I exploited mobs for gold to buy gear/get gear. You know VGs are good for that. Anyways, yea classes with a choice is better than classes with no choice. I'm more happy with the specialization system flushed out than a hard cap.

kdchan
04-22-2010, 10:00
Darkfall doesn't have tradeoffs except for a specialization system that is nothing more than classes, especially considering that they've said the goal is to move people into more defined roles and longer term choices. While that is better than what we have now, I'd rather not be lumped into preset specializations. On the other hand, hybrids should not dominate. They should be a master-of-none, instead of a the current master-of-everything.

This, until they fix the fact that you can use everything the game will still be a hybrid quake arena rpg. More deep specializations = less grind = permanent roles and diversity.

CSkydt
04-22-2010, 13:45
Tasos its time to post the single most important post in 2010, concerning "the grind".

Im soo curious

xerian
04-22-2010, 13:56
Gogo!

urzen
04-22-2010, 14:03
Why are the last 10 pages of this thread suggestions for the grind when they specifically asked you not to post anything but comments on the actual topic? No wonder they dont post when you guys cant stay on topic.

Doctor Cuddles
04-22-2010, 14:25
Exactly. Maybe if everybody waited then posted a well constructed suggestion in the correct thread, and left the shit talking out of it, MAYBE the Community Liaisons and Developers might be able to process some of these suggestions a lot faster.

katahlyn
04-22-2010, 14:25
Why are the last 10 pages of this thread suggestions for the grind when they specifically asked you not to post anything but comments on the actual topic? No wonder they dont post when you guys cant stay on topic.

Because the majority of the forumfall are kids masquerading as adults, while also having the attention span of a cat (or even lower). :)

Also: Oooooh, shiny!

Wyndal
04-22-2010, 15:19
Tasos its time to post the single most important post in 2010, concerning "the grind".

^^

brainiak
04-22-2010, 16:28
AV never hurry with that kind of stuff, so just calm down and don't expect new article before, like 10 pm.

Zeil
04-22-2010, 17:16
Because the majority of the forumfall are kids masquerading as adults, while also having the attention span of a cat (or even lower). :)


More like a Gnat...you kick a cat a couple times it goes away. Fucking Gnats... you can swipe at um all day, they dont leave till ya smash it.:D

Laz
04-22-2010, 18:51
You can't eliminate skilling up aka "The Grind" completely. I know a few guys, for example, who log on and if there is no PvP they just log off... simply because they have nothing left to work on characher progression wise...
I guess this is a topic for tomorrow's spotlight or whenever...

Creating known PvP hot spots would help a lot with that.

Victis honor
04-22-2010, 19:34
Creating known PvP hot spots would help a lot with that.

getting off your ass and looking for it helps.

t0mm3h
04-22-2010, 19:56
getting off your ass and looking for it helps.

yes cause everyone wants to log into darkfall to run around for 2 hours and most likely die to a group yeeeey :rolleyes:

CSkydt
04-22-2010, 20:49
2 hours left of "tomorrow". Did they allready fail with the interaction...

Paragus
04-22-2010, 20:50
2 hours left of "tomorrow". Did they allready fail with the interaction...

It's coming today.

Keno
04-22-2010, 20:51
It's coming today.

:p

Arquiteto
04-22-2010, 20:56
No they wont let us down and be dumb enough to say they are going to make a post today and not actually do it. There is no way they would fail on their first developer/community interaction.

I was really optimistic about the games future after reading Tasos post yesterday. It has to be because he is taking his time and will release it right before midnight.

Malkahv
04-22-2010, 20:58
It's coming today.

i hope they looked at your (Paragus') Progression write up while they were evaluating the whole "grind" process ( i thought it was well written, non bias, and the results, for moderately playing, were very reasonable.)

moar plz!

KORVOSX666XXXX
04-22-2010, 20:59
tasos is obviously learning how to forumfall before he talks to us, or else he won't have a chance! :p

Barokk
04-22-2010, 21:02
They're hosting the "developer interaction" as we speak.

They just need to get shitfaced enough :ninja:

Paragus
04-22-2010, 21:02
i hope they looked at your (Paragus') Progression write up while they were evaluating the whole "grind" process ( i thought it was well written, non bias, and the results, for moderately playing, were very reasonable.)

moar plz!

I wasn't really trying to make a point out of it except to show people an average level of progression they could expect to see during a similar time frame. I think different people interpreted it in different ways. Some called me slow saying they could exceed my results, others pointed and said it's proof that more adjusting needs to be done.

I do appreciate the feedback, and I'll say that I definitely think there are certain aspects of progression that could use improvement. Probably can't really do another accurate write-up on it because my playtime has been very inconsistent because of being distracted by Bad Company and Starcraft 2 Beta. :)

KORVOSX666XXXX
04-22-2010, 21:04
I wasn't really trying to make a point out of it except to show people an average level of progression they could expect to see during a similar time frame. I think different people interpreted it in different ways. Some called me slow saying they could exceed my results, others pointed and said it's proof that more adjusting needs to be done.

I do appreciate the feedback, and I'll say that I definitely think there are certain aspects of progression that could use improvement. Probably can't really do another accurate write-up on it because my playtime has been very inconsistent because of being distracted by Bad Company and Starcraft 2 Beta. :)

you're marine rush strategy is fail :p

KORVOSX666XXXX
04-22-2010, 21:05
your marine rush strategy is fail :p

fixed why can't you edit posts here :bang:

Barokk
04-22-2010, 21:07
I can edit mine, maybe they're hoping for some censorship of myself (not gonna happen :p )

Proof
|
|
V

Barokk
04-22-2010, 21:14
On a serious note though, they seem like hard working people, so yeah, they have probably scheduled this for tonight ...

KORVOSX666XXXX
04-22-2010, 21:16
On a serious note though, they seem like hard working people, so yeah, they have probably scheduled this for tonight ...

it's 11 pm in greece...

Zeraphine
04-22-2010, 21:21
I think he post it tomorrow!

As he started his post yesterday, it was very late, i think it is a mistake ^^

Barokk
04-22-2010, 21:21
Aye, we'll see.

Niburu
04-22-2010, 21:21
Wasting time with a game like BC2 is fail....really you can't even prone. If you want serious military action try out ArmA2 or the new Addon that wlll coem in summer.




Btw where is the new section i already made a.txt file with suggestion that i want to share with the Dev's ^^

Xianthos
04-22-2010, 21:23
Wasting time with a game like BC2 is fail....really you can't even prone. If you want serious military action try out ArmA2 or the new Addon that wlll coem in summer.




Btw where is the new section i already made a.txt file with suggestion that i want to share with the Dev's ^^

I bet they will get instant 100 replys on this thread :)
Aka "grind" is a real issue for a lot of ppl.

Niburu
04-22-2010, 21:23
I bet they will get instant 100 replys on this thread :)
Aka "grind" is a real issue for a lot of ppl.

yep

Rocket Man
04-22-2010, 21:24
Some advice for Adventurine:

When making announcements;

1. Lie to us - If you know a certain patch is going to take 2 weeks to do. Make an announcment that there will be a new patch in say... 4 weeks just so you can for sure release it at your intial release date.

If you know it's going to take you more than 1 day to write up a grind issue tell us "We will talk about the grind issue on 4/25/10 ect ect.

P.S: PLEASE stop apoligizing its so annoying and unprofessional. No one gives a shit about apoligizes, online or irl. You make a mistake big whoop don't address it just tell us what you are going to do to fix the problem.

fuck hire me to work for adventurine marketing

BlueOreo
04-22-2010, 21:33
Some advice for Adventurine:

When making announcements;

1. Lie to us - If you know a certain patch is going to take 2 weeks to do. Make an announcment that there will be a new patch in say... 4 weeks just so you can for sure release it at your intial release date.

If you know it's going to take you more than 1 day to write up a grind issue tell us "We will talk about the grind issue on 4/25/10 ect ect.

P.S: PLEASE stop apoligizing its so annoying and unprofessional. No one gives a shit about apoligizes, online or irl. You make a mistake big whoop don't address it just tell us what you are going to do to fix the problem.

fuck hire me to work for adventurine marketing

It's Aventurine. I don't think you'd do any better.

Snide jab aside, I do agree with all of your sentiments.

doomahx
04-23-2010, 01:12
Is it too much to ask for a dev chat where we can directly ask you questions? Must all communication with us be pre-written?

1 hour from your busy life please

Ganda
04-23-2010, 10:50
Fix the "jack of all shit" chars (by that I mean unlimited skills etc. - hard coded skillcap), and you will see alot of people returning. More people will rejoin, than people quiting. :ninja:

sdkyky1
04-23-2010, 14:44
Nice stuff AV, i came a little bit late to the party and have been trying to catch up reading all the posts.

I'm so excited, it may be a bit early...is it just me or has the whole vibe around the forums been alot more relaxed even just by the mere mention of more dev/community involvement, not perfect but getting better? Anyways good stuff, keep it coming!

DAA KAPUTTMACHA
04-23-2010, 16:17
Some advice for Adventurine:

When making announcements;

1. Lie to us - If you know a certain patch is going to take 2 weeks to do. Make an announcment that there will be a new patch in say... 4 weeks just so you can for sure release it at your intial release date.

If you know it's going to take you more than 1 day to write up a grind issue tell us "We will talk about the grind issue on 4/25/10 ect ect.

P.S: PLEASE stop apoligizing its so annoying and unprofessional. No one gives a shit about apoligizes, online or irl. You make a mistake big whoop don't address it just tell us what you are going to do to fix the problem.

fuck hire me to work for adventurine marketing

Very smart... and who tells you that they dont do that already and give us always the doubled ETA?
The thing about unforeseen problems/issues is that they are not calculable regarding the degree and time to fix it.

MortalZero
04-26-2010, 12:59
Next topic please, communication end point wasn't the "grind" and IMO it even wasn't the starting point for dev- community interaction.
Sandbox features, economy, RvR content etc. are the real points to talk about.

Hekkr
04-26-2010, 13:32
Next topic please, communication end point wasn't the "grind" and IMO it even wasn't the starting point for dev- community interaction.
Sandbox features, economy, RvR content etc. are the real points to talk about.

stfu.

Yrr
04-26-2010, 13:34
I've grinded my way through all the posts. This thread is a bitch to read.

I'll try to keep my post as short and specific as possible.

1st Motivation

There is no real motivation to grind all skills up just to become another viable, advanced or epic character with the same skillset as everyone.

To solve this you've to make us different. UO showed howto do this without putting artifical limitations on your choice of skills. Create something in the spirit of UO and most of the "character progression" problems will be gone.

2nd There are way too much timesinks.


Gathering the most basic stuff should be very fast. It should be 1/5 farm your equipment and 4/5 use your equipment.
Give us local storages in the wilderness. Full lootable and accessable by everyone passing by. Hiding places near chaos stones, ruins and other POI's. Add much of them.
Add more wildernessbanks.


3rd There are not much rewards after the first month.


Let us see the progress our character makes. Buff skillgains. See 1st.
Let us become the one and not just another. If somebody decides to be a fisher he should be able to make an outcome of his profession. This isn't possible as everybody has exactly the same skillset.



Keep it hard for advanced stuff - Reward us.
Let us get advanced characters in short time but add skill jewels for players that stick to their choosen path.
A dedicated fisher should be able to get the big fish and much of it.
A miner should be able to get 10x of a fighter hitting the same stone.
A crafter should create higher dura armor out of lesser mats.
And on and on and on.
Real good equipment should require some effort. Use some of the GM's to control epic monsters/demigods and let them drop enough for 20 peoples outcome.
A dedicated miner should be neccessary to get good ore from dungeons.
Dedicated fighters should be neccessary to protect him.
Encourage teamplay through specialization.


4th So much more to say.

This topic is so complex that it makes my brain hurt. I tried to put it as simple as possible. Basically every argument made points back to character specialization. So I want to go back to my first point:

Make us distinguish from each other

Yrr
04-26-2010, 13:39
I posted above in the wrong thread and I'm not able to edit it anymore. The post may be deleted.



I've grinded my way through all the posts. This thread is a bitch to read.

I'll try to keep my post as short and specific as possible.

1st Motivation

There is no real motivation to grind all skills up just to become another viable, advanced or epic character with the same skillset as everyone.

To solve this you've to make us different. UO showed howto do this without putting artifical limitations on your choice of skills. Create something in the spirit of UO and most of the "character progression" problems will be gone.

2nd There are way too much timesinks.


Gathering the most basic stuff should be very fast. It should be 1/5 farm your equipment and 4/5 use your equipment.
Give us local storages in the wilderness. Full lootable and accessable by everyone passing by. Hiding places near chaos stones, ruins and other POI's. Add much of them.
Add more wildernessbanks.


3rd There are not much rewards after the first month.


Let us see the progress our character makes. Buff skillgains. See 1st.
Let us become the one and not just another. If somebody decides to be a fisher he should be able to make an outcome of his profession. This isn't possible as everybody has exactly the same skillset.



Keep it hard for advanced stuff - Reward us.
Let us get advanced characters in short time but add skill jewels for players that stick to their choosen path.
A dedicated fisher should be able to get the big fish and much of it.
A miner should be able to get 10x of a fighter hitting the same stone.
A crafter should create higher dura armor out of lesser mats.
And on and on and on.
Real good equipment should require some effort. Use some of the GM's to control epic monsters/demigods and let them drop enough for 20 peoples outcome.
A dedicated miner should be neccessary to get good ore from dungeons.
Dedicated fighters should be neccessary to protect him.
Encourage teamplay through specialization.


4th So much more to say.

This topic is so complex that it makes my brain hurt. I tried to put it as simple as possible. Basically every argument made points back to character specialization. So I want to go back to my first point:

Make us distinguish from each other

MortalZero
04-27-2010, 13:54
I ll still wait for the developer communications on Darkfalls REAL problems. When will we have spotlights about ?

Pureblade
04-28-2010, 08:36
What we’d like to do here is to take the areas we’ve identified one at a time, starting with character progression issues AKA “the grind” tomorrow, and addressing them by briefly explaining our past actions, our short and our long-term plans. We’d like to hear back from you on these issues and we want to keep you better updated on our progress towards our goals so that the feedback is based on real information rather than on speculation.
Ok, you did "the grind" a week ago. As for the rest, I'm gonna start speculating again soon. ;)

JCatano
04-28-2010, 09:06
*crickets*

Temko Firewing
04-28-2010, 09:32
*crickets*

aah.. Aventurine, how you never fail to disapoint. ETA on silence ... 2 weeks?

ricklowdis
04-28-2010, 09:47
As a result of these communication gaps, it may also seem that we don’t care, or that we’re not working on the things that matter. In reality we’re consumed with tackling the major issues, there’s a clear and detailed plan, a very strong commitment and a lot of work being done behind the scenes on every level. We’re also constantly trying to improve our delivery times by streamlining our processes, and by getting more developers on the job. There are currently numerous smaller things in the works in many different areas of the game leading up to larger improvements across the board.

.

post the clear and detailed plan, bob's your uncle, and the community is happy


on another note completely unrelated but kind of related


I don't know about your job and how you're too busy too make a post. I work 12 hour shifts sometimes more. When I get slammed or something fucks up I work through my breaks/lunches and get called in for overtime. (sucks because it is really fucking up my gaming time but thats another matter)

I'm not saying you guys should do this. I guess I'm just more driven or something or maybe that is my way of showing my customers I care.

I can do alot in 10-15 minutes


Maybe you should take the time hiding in the shitter checking facebook, myspace, or texting on your phones and just make a post.

We're all playing a failing piece of shit game we want to succeed it seems sometimes we want it to succeed more than you guys do.

I'll give you an example of what I see in your game.

I have a clan of 21 people.... all new people except for 2 of us.... some of em were recruited while having the newbie protection... I have about 5 active now and 2 log on maybe once or twice a week....

thats 2/3 of my clan missing in 1 month, if my clan is a smaller scale ratio for the server you guys are in trouble



I like this game but damn it you guys are really making it hard to continue playing it.

Camaris
04-28-2010, 09:50
aah.. Aventurine, how you never fail to disapoint. ETA on silence ... 2 weeks?
Personally i hope they start to tell us something on a regular day a week.

Rekshop
04-28-2010, 17:47
LMAO,
Leave it up to AV to start a thread about communicating more with the community and then give us the silent treatment just to fuck with us. Epic.

Silvamp
04-28-2010, 18:29
Sometimes i wonder if people even read their posts and just post to flame away on AV just because they can.

Spottycat
04-28-2010, 18:44
Now now - They did `advertise` to us regarding this 2-week freebie thing at least, and tried to explain and convince us `all` why we we're all wrong in how we think about this game...

----

It's good that they're making some minor changes here and there as usual, but they ignore important stuff, like taking decent care of their customers in the process still!
Proof to this matter - 2 guys from Mortis Consortium are `stuck` in a guild that doesn't exist anywhere except on their saved player data and AV has taken so long to do anything about this matter that they're probably going to stop playing here before too long, because they can't leave the clan that has been merged into another clan entirely. They were in the process of leaving and then the server crashed, somehow only maintaining partial data changes in the process. If you think I'm exaggerating, ask Drevarius or Wicked on NA-1. This isn't a `little` problem and it's being treated like one for some stupid reason.

Then lets get to the whole matter of GMs policing things in the game that polls on these forums would suggest that a majority of the players still playing would rather the GMs allowed the players to police themselves! Macroing! The grind in this game is stupid hard for some people to do anything with - and short of maybe paying people for `player assist` services to get magic trained up and `player auction sites` to do unspeakable things. They should not even have to consider these things just because you've become ban-happy 1 year too late. Your typical bread-winner-for-the-household doesn't have enough time to get to a competitive level in this game without spending 4-8 hours a day for 6 months playing this game. (yeah yeah... hp curve changes will help `a little`)
So, there are a lot of players who would like to be able to macro (read as: risk) their regs to gain skills while other players obtain an opportunity to kill said player and stiffle their skill gains, because they're not able to defend themselves properly and have to rely on the teamwork of their organizations in player cities and villages. -- However, the GMs insist on being involved in policing this matter despite numerous polls I've seen posted around here that show that a majority of players who use the forums (read as: hardcore supporters of DF) would rather that the GMs stuck to hacker reports, NPC-tower AFK Skillgains and geometry exploits and allow the playerbase to police what is supposed to be a sandbox game.

If you want to communicate, please make it a 2-way street rather than your lot always doing nothing but telling us why we're wrong in our thinking. Speak and listen, just like we do; rather than forcing us to speak with our subscriptions. We love this game and want to see it succeed, but you're not listening enough.

thedrumchannell
04-28-2010, 19:40
The silent treatment again AV?

So, you invite players back without even sending them an email to inform them that you're inviting them back?

Also, how are these players (who aren't going to return because they have no idea they are being invited back) supposed to see what has changed with the game when nothing "important" has actually changed?

AV reminds me of a husband that beats his wife and then says, "Don't worry, I will change... I'm serious this time".

There is a reason my me and thousands of other players have stopped playing this game. Darkfall is almost pure crap and AV has given us NO hope that this game will see improvements in the near future.

empa
04-28-2010, 19:50
The silent treatment again AV?

So, you invite players back without even sending them an email to inform them that you're inviting them back?

Also, how are these players (who aren't going to return because they have no idea they are being invited back) supposed to see what has changed with the game when nothing "important" has actually changed?

AV reminds me of a husband that beats his wife and then says, "Don't worry, I will change... I'm serious this time".

There is a reason my me and thousands of other players have stopped playing this game. Darkfall is almost pure crap and AV has given us NO hope that this game will see improvements in the near future.



Who really expected anything extradoinary to be done?

Its a nonstop fail parade from AV for the past 6 months or so

Greeen
04-28-2010, 20:21
Wow, there are some hard sentiments here. Makes me as a still noob wonder quite a bit.
Will still give a short comment regarding the grind:

Incentives is a word popping up a lot. I wouldn't mind that from a certain point on, since it seems to go fast to ca 30-40, then it becomes slow. Which in a way is okay, you don't want to max your char in a month, but if you don't feel the advancement, especially playing "casual", then it becomes boring somehow.

Another way is to have at least more variety in mobs (if we now want to take PVE) - attacking the same 3 or 4 spawns of 3 or 4 types of mobs over and over again to increase your skill is simply not rewarding after the umpteenth time.

I don't mind that there isn't a cap on stats. If it were, as in UO which many are referring to, then it should be as in UO that one has multiple character slots as to enable you to have your crafter or so. Then again, that is too much in contrast to the "no-class" type of thinking.

Chriswsm
04-28-2010, 20:24
I have yet to see anything that will make me remove the comment in my sig about the lack of customer services and communication in AV

Drevarius
04-28-2010, 21:03
As Jag pointed out earlier in this thread, I'm someone who has been waiting for some communication from AV too.

I have given props when due to AV in the past and I have always enjoyed this game, but indeed customers are getting shafted on what feels like a regular basis to me.

To further explain, myself and a clanmate have been stuck in a bugged clan for 3 weeks which technically doesn't exist.

We cannot
- Leave the clan, our clan page receives errors when open
- Adjust the political standing of our clan, again the clan page does not function
- Bind at any player city, since we cannot ally anyone
- War anyone, or take any city for ourselves
- Go to any player city without being continually shot by guard towers
- Speak to any of our friends in clan or alliance chat
- Store anything in the clan bank
- effectively participate in sieges because we are constantly being killed even by friendlies since we con red, and we can't bind anywhere we could regear and quickly join the fight after death

In addition I'm a red alfar, so even NPC cities are closed to me. I am forced to live at chaos stones.

I put in a ticket about the issue immediately when it happened. I have kept in constant contact with the support department (from my end, anyways), asking for updates, suggesting possible fixes, and so far as demanding to at least know what progress if any has been made or attempted.

I have received no constructive feedback other then that my ticket has been escalated. They will give me no updates, they wont even confirm whether they have a solution or are working on one. The final response from them was "please be patient, and if you message us again, we will drop your issue to the bottom on the issue queue".

This is the worst service and communication I have EVER had from any entity I have dealt with in my life, business, paid service, or otherwise.

Nearly an entire month of wasted account time, and they wont even give me the time of day to fix this issue. I'm only asking to be removed from a clan, how hard is that?

If they were unwilling to go to the database entry where my character exists and remove the clan data, they could even do something ridiculous like store my bank somewhere while transferring my character to EU and back to NA, some sort of dirty fix just to get my character working. Its not rocket science, the only reason I haven't had my problem fixed is flat out shitty communication and service.

Krag
04-28-2010, 21:33
Damn thats terrible...

It really baffles me that these guys could come up with a pretty decent game despite being so clueless on such basic issues such as treating customers in a way that doesn't completely piss them off.