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nisco17
03-17-2010, 00:02
AV should just redesign the specialization system to give us 3 points to use on any of the specializations across both melee and archery (and perhaps later magic if they add it).

Daedros
03-17-2010, 00:18
The fact that you can't get jumpshot and magekiller is just retarded.

OH NOES! You can't be both Anti-Melee (Jumpshot) and Anti-Mage (Magekiller) at the same time, while dominating the water (Aquatic Shot). The world is gonna end!

Keno
03-17-2010, 00:19
Wow.. so the mages that can jump kite with their spells, can now kite with their bow when they are fighting destroyer/mage killers. When Mage Killers will still be stuck on rocks and get mount fucked.

What the hell, just make it so that you can pick two of all above. Destroyers that are even remotely competitive are going to do crap damage with any decent gear anyways, even with mage killer and jump shot.

Your not listening to the problems your sub specs are crying about. We don't have the gear to do amazing damage with mage killer, we get kited by every mage in the game and you just made the one thing we had *mage killer* obsolete, the mages can now kite with their bow DOING MAX DAMAGE, while Destroyers/Mage Killers will be doing 28 damage instead of a measly 32 with their gear on.


+1 for Spadester!

Lysette
03-17-2010, 00:22
Outstanding, and great to see that it won't be left to the next expansion but will be patched in sooner. :)

HarrietTubgirl
03-17-2010, 00:32
Wow Aventurine, sweet job, I can see what you guys have spent the last few weeks doing. Some of you developers want to start actually playing the game? Nearly every change you guys make you seem absolutely completely out of touch with the community and the game. Please get a clue?

Ayn Sheron
03-17-2010, 00:41
maybe they have put a new restriction on jumpshot and aquatic spec

wait and see the patch

Damphousse
03-17-2010, 00:44
Jump AND aquatic shot? good game

Loc
03-17-2010, 00:56
So your telling me you cannot get Mage Killer and Jump Shot?

Icing on the cake.....

AND AQUATIC SHOT IS STILL A SPEC!!!!!!

WOW.............
pretty much this

Sandarament
03-17-2010, 00:57
tbh this is a perfect setup, pure archers now will have fun

Ayn Sheron
03-17-2010, 01:02
STOP the QQ wait and see

but the patch look as good change!


- Jumpshot + aquatic = good for archer

- mage killer + mage hunter = perfect combo to fight mage
even if the mage switch to archery jump-aqua they do not have the advantage

- mana shield + mage hunter = good protection combo

- mage killer + auqatic = killer in water
because in water you cannot dodge the arrows and you use often the staff/magic toheal/stam

thedrumchannell
03-17-2010, 01:03
I like these changes alot, the only thing missing now is a momentum nerf so that doing a 180/360 in mid air isn't "possible".

Mage Killer + Jump Shot would be OP, so these changes are great AV. :)

Spades911
03-17-2010, 01:05
Why are you QQing about getting mount fucked when the specialization you pick is about killing a mage? Don't pick mage killer if you are worried about killing hybrids.

Wait.. people on mounts aren't mages... mages can kill mounts better than I can kill mounts... maybe if you strap a staff to a mounts back then you may have a argument here.

Ayn Sheron
03-17-2010, 01:06
would be OP if they allow

aquatic + mage killer + jump shot

Spades911
03-17-2010, 01:16
would be OP if they allow

aquatic + mage killer + jump shot

I rather have mage killer + jump shot, so that I can feel remotely melee/archery oriented. Not just melee oriented..

Mage Killers won't be overpowered because their archery encumbrance is ridiculously high when they get geared up in formidable gear.

Mage Killers will have to wear scale and bone to do max damage with the jump shot utility. If they are wearing bone and scale they will be a joke against melee and magic.

Mash36
03-17-2010, 01:19
it's still a choice between jump shot and aquatic shot, with AS being the ONLY form of water ranged combat. Gimped as hell.

ViolentRebel
03-17-2010, 01:31
Hahaha...Ginger will QQ...no more instant griefing in npc cities, lol. Finally.
Now he has to do REAL pvp.
Will he quit? Will he QQ much? We'll see.

Crindle
03-17-2010, 01:44
Does AV even think of groupings when they do specing?

GG.

Kiad
03-17-2010, 01:55
Wait.. people on mounts aren't mages... mages can kill mounts better than I can kill mounts... maybe if you strap a staff to a mounts back then you may have a argument here.

If they are on mount and slashing at you I would say they are using melee. That would make them a warrior at that moment if you want to put a class on them like in your first MMO WoW. You are bitching about your mage killer spec fucking you against a warrior?

DF is not WoW. You don't just have archer/mage/warrior classes. Everyone is a hybrid. Even when you spec mage killer you are still a hybrid as you cast transfers/blinds/heals. Mage killer is a specialization to harm players for more when they have their staff out. It is NOT to make you a better archer than a person who did not choose to cut their magic off at Witchcraft/Spellchanting. Specs like Mage Killer are there to make you better in certain specific SITUATIONS. Not a specific CLASS OF COMBAT.

Kasmos
03-17-2010, 01:57
Holy fucking shit, I go away from forumfall for less than a day and SO MUCH QQ HAPPENS? Why do I miss all the good stuff??? :(

cerosis
03-17-2010, 02:03
As far as that goes..

Archery and Bolt spells should be doing the MOST DPS in the game. AOE and splash damage should not be doing shit, but still should be somewhat effective while focusing multiple AOE's at once on a target.

trash the spec crap everyone can jump shoot and shoot whatever the fuck they want underwater because afterall it is "MAGIC" and this is the holy grail of solutions

PsychoGuy
03-17-2010, 02:21
hmm, not sure why these items were selected to be repaired.
there are other things that needed it much more, fine for the war dec stuff, meh..


but how about bind kicking? I think thats prolly the most important thing.

I was just checking the political map, and it looks like 1 huge nut cup alliance holds all the holdings worth having, and the other huge nutcup alliance holds the others.

awesome. fun pvp.

McDoogs
03-17-2010, 02:30
I was just checking the political map, and it looks like 1 huge nut cup alliance holds all the holdings worth having, and the other huge nutcup alliance holds the others.

awesome. fun pvp.

NA-1 has pretty well distributed holdings actually kid.

kilrain
03-17-2010, 02:30
Well, we all know the options suck. How about we all calm down until they are implemented to see what, if any, changes were made to the requirements to get them. Once we know the whole story THEN we can "virtually" rip av a new asshole.

I mean I'd be damn happy if jump/aqua were each 20-25% mana loss each :) (yeah i know thats far fetched). We can at least see what happens.

cr0ss
03-17-2010, 02:31
Hooray... more changes that make hybrids the best thing to be in this game. When are mage restrictions coming? Fire prevents Water. Air prevents Earth. Arcane prevents Necromancy.

Why aren't these implemented? :(

Facebreaker
03-17-2010, 02:33
Awesome news for Archers and people in starter area :)

This is not awesome news honestly. I was hoping to read something about how Archery is going to be given an array of new skills... Sadly enough, we're just given a divide in abilities that are already available... Ughh :bang:

Spades911
03-17-2010, 02:58
If they are on mount and slashing at you I would say they are using melee.


Mage Killer is gimp.... Because there is no jump shot or a means of getting away... Spec'ing mage killer takes all nukes away from people who wish to do extra damage with bows, but why on earth would anyone want that when there is no armor to protect this person in the game. They will be cut up by mages since their melee protection won't be as high (if they put scale/bone on to do optimized damage), mages will have more self buffs protecting said person from arrows, a mage can shoot arrows back at said person with equal if not more arrow protection, and if the mage killer put on heavier armor to protect said person from arrows, they will do less damage with arrows substantially.

How does this make sense.

LordFunk
03-17-2010, 03:02
Truth be told, jump shot and jump casting was first removed because melee users were QQing about not having an answer to it while only using melee weapons.

AV took it out by mistake during one of the patches and then left it out and put it back in as a spec. Very lame IMO. They really just needed to buff melee spec which goes with their principal of adding options instead of taking them away.

Yeah, I think if AV had just upped the melee armor resists and tweaked the archery encumbrance rules instead of adding in the jumping/aqua specs we'd probably have a much more fun and populated game right now. Taking out the jump attacks/casting was lame.

Now everyone and their dog argues about "specs" and the "best archery combination" and I don't think that's what AV originally intended at all.

PsychoGuy
03-17-2010, 03:13
NA-1 has pretty well distributed holdings actually kid.
lol, yea says who?

you are in one of the nut cup alliances I assume?

if you review the political map, you will see what I say is true, I don't see an even distribution I see super huge alliances, all nut cupping each other.

the whole west side of the map is allied. the whole east side of the map is allied, alot of clans hold 4 hamlets and one city, and if you goto the hamlet you see them empty, so clearly you have no fuckin clue what the fuck you are talking about, kid.

Jango1337
03-17-2010, 03:26
so you're still keeping aquatic shot as a spec......and your letting mages get jump shot AND aquatic shot now with all their magic.

mxking
03-17-2010, 03:52
Archery is still going to be imbalanced. Ya you can have aquatic shot and mage killer woopdee doo. Mage Killer is worthless i barely mitigates maybe half the damage you lose due to archery encumberance while wearing scale+

Aquatic Shot should be implemented so everyone has it without a spec and you should be able to have jump shot + mage killer. Its no different than cycling r50 nukes isnt it? Oh wait! you actually have to aim and theres not much of a knockback.

Who knows maybe they will fix encumberance on archery, if not, worthless patch..

nisco17
03-17-2010, 04:30
I wonder how effective Mage Hunter + Mage Killer will be?

Ayn Sheron
03-17-2010, 04:30
i will go magekiller + mage hunter

Kiad
03-17-2010, 04:31
Mage Killer is gimp.... Because there is no jump shot or a means of getting away... Spec'ing mage killer takes all nukes away from people who wish to do extra damage with bows, but why on earth would anyone want that when there is no armor to protect this person in the game. They will be cut up by mages since their melee protection won't be as high (if they put scale/bone on to do optimized damage), mages will have more self buffs protecting said person from arrows, a mage can shoot arrows back at said person with equal if not more arrow protection, and if the mage killer put on heavier armor to protect said person from arrows, they will do less damage with arrows substantially.

How does this make sense.

You arent playing the mage killer spec correctly. If you want to spec mage killer, its because you want to keep people from using their staff. That means you are charging mages while firing arrows at them. If they try and jump kite you, they eat back shots. If they melee you, they should lose because you will do more damage than them unless you gear like shit. And bone+scale for "optimal" damage is gearing like shit. 1 month newbies on EU1 gear in that crap. Mage killer/destroyer is best for the 40-50% of population that has shitty magic so theres NO downside to taking it, and for players who like team fights and can afford to actually gear well. Magekiller/Destoryer is ridiculous if you have decent players around you to buff and heal you instead of FF you like I see in most fights in NA. I'm sorry but anyone who thinks bone+scale is optimal just doesnt know enough about the game to comment on balance.

nisco17
03-17-2010, 04:31
Mana Shield + Mage Hunter == supertank against mages also.

Kimoshu
03-17-2010, 04:37
You make sweeping generalizations without providing any concrete examples. Please tell us exactly how those changes will force you to play differently and maybe offer up some additions to change that. Otherwise, you have no basis for your complaint.

Off-topic: I mentioned my disliking of many of the wishlist changes because not everyone likes the list you guys have brought together and you guys were appalled that someone thought that so I wanted to voice my opinion on it as well. The list is so massive and my time very limited that I only made it maybe 1/2 way through it before I skimmed over the rest; However I saw a trend in almost all the ideas you guys had where you took a feature that you didn't like and your ideas to change it added all sorts of anti-sandbox limitations. Not all suggestions in the list are bad, I'm just saying that a large amount of your ideas would completely change the way the game is played and remove viable options in many cases. I don't want to derail this thread anymore so I PM'd you my list.

On topic: I think that AV's implementation is so that you can either choose to have pure utility specs as an archer; Balanced utility and damage or protection; Or pure damage/protection. The only real game-breaking issue I see here is that primary melee specs are still lacking a bit due to the jump-spin-shoot abilities of magic and archery, forcing them to go mounted. My idea to solve this is that sprint speed is slightly reduced by ~10-20% when nocking an arrow or charging a spell, this will enable melee users who are closely chasing archer/mage characters to close the gap.

-Andrew

Aristos
03-17-2010, 04:47
You arent playing the mage killer spec correctly. If you want to spec mage killer, its because you want to keep people from using their staff. That means you are charging mages while firing arrows at them. If they try and jump kite you, they eat back shots. If they melee you, they should lose because you will do more damage than them unless you gear like shit. And bone+scale for "optimal" damage is gearing like shit. 1 month newbies on EU1 gear in that crap. Mage killer/destroyer is best for the 40-50% of population that has shitty magic so theres NO downside to taking it, and for players who like team fights and can afford to actually gear well. Magekiller/Destoryer is ridiculous if you have decent players around you to buff and heal you instead of FF you like I see in most fights in NA. I'm sorry but anyone who thinks bone+scale is optimal just doesnt know enough about the game to comment on balance.

Agreed. It is definitely an effective playstyle for group combat, but not so much 1v1's. It's just way too situational.

Ayn Sheron
03-17-2010, 04:51
However they need to increase the mana malus on both specialization.

So hybrid/mage will think before to go out with both specialization enabled.

a 25% on total mana as malus in each skill will be good.

mage playing with an archery specialization will lose a lot of mana.
while melee and archer won't be bothered coz they do not need a lot of mana.

Wait and see the patch

JetBoom
03-17-2010, 05:50
We’ll also let you know that we’re always looking for information about Darkfall 2010. At the moment however, the developers are focused on finalizing their decisions and tests of included features before they can start sharing more information.

So they're going to make a huge patch and then never tell anyone what it does or changes until they actually put it on the servers? Sounds good to me.

Aristos
03-17-2010, 05:59
So they're going to make a huge patch and then never tell anyone what it does or changes until they actually put it on the servers? Sounds good to me.

Which is what they always do. Which always ends up with something being broken or unbalanced. Which ends up in waiting weeks or months before we get a quick bandaid fix. Great system!

Patriota
03-17-2010, 06:01
Good news for a lot of ppl i guess, but i dont know about aquatic shot still spec, well at least you heard players opinion, that's great.
Congratz AV

Kelsen
03-17-2010, 06:03
Great changes for the war dec. system, however I will have to agree with most on the archery specs and say it is a step in the right direction but its all mixed up. Thing that confuses me is that it will be possible to spec Mage Killer and Mage Hunter at the same time, yet you can't spec Destroyer and Indestructible together. IMO this is how it should be..

Everyone gets the ability to shoot a bow underwater.

1st Group
Mage Killer
Mage Hunter

2nd Group
Mana Shield
Jump Shot
Master Scout

Good to see some updates!

chano
03-17-2010, 06:07
I think everyone can agree that the fee for wars/timer for wars is fine -- insta war deccing newbs in NPC cities is retarded.

this

The thing i like about aqua shot as a spec was that mages either shoot bow under water or jump kite with archery. If they are going to let them have it anyway just take it out as a spec.

This basically makes destroyer/mage killer useless the mages will just go from spells to archery jump kitting.

McDoogs
03-17-2010, 06:20
lol, yea says who?

you are in one of the nut cup alliances I assume?

if you review the political map, you will see what I say is true, I don't see an even distribution I see super huge alliances, all nut cupping each other.

the whole west side of the map is allied. the whole east side of the map is allied, alot of clans hold 4 hamlets and one city, and if you goto the hamlet you see them empty, so clearly you have no fuckin clue what the fuck you are talking about, kid.

8 different alliances hold 3 or more holdings, with a large number of holdings held by independent clans/small alliances. You definitely are new here if that seems bad to you.

Corp-Por
03-17-2010, 08:08
Nice and much needed changed to the Wardec, it's been abused far too long, so much for the one man clan losers who like to grief via this flawed mechanic. Great News on the Archery too.

Urme the Legend
03-17-2010, 08:31
Awesome changing about war dec. Not sure that the archery changes will help that much, it's cool that you can have jump+aqua shot but I doubt that's enough.

Henide
03-17-2010, 08:31
Speaking of archers: Have you ever seen an archer running around and jumping while nocking his arrow ? Water is a considerable refuge (not failproof though) from these arrows, and has been used in warfare tactics.
Also, disregard all that 'but real life is not like that', i suck cocks.

I would rather see some good new implementions, like ability to zoom in on the target if standing still, maybe even making the projectile to fly faster and with a less arc, while in stationary position.
People are forgetting what archers are about. Arguing whether features, that dont fit an archer are implemented, or are they implemented with penalties.

Zonack
03-17-2010, 09:54
Why are you so against it ?

I think having it as a spec is a great idea.Otherwise we're just going to end up with what we had at DF launch... just a bunch of bunny hopping archers.

Because there are no bunny hoping mages in this game....

Hekkr
03-17-2010, 09:59
Because there are no bunny hoping mages in this game....

nah nah bra, that's a myth.

Hekkr
03-17-2010, 10:06
The first group contains Mana shield, Mage Killer and Jump Shot while the second contains Aquatic Shot, Mage Hunter and Master Scout.

So if i read this correctly,

i will be able to choose Jump Shot from the first group, and Aqua shot from the 2nd group?

Thats not that bad.

Hekkr
03-17-2010, 10:11
So, i just noticed i cant edit my posts here. I still agree with the people they should remove Aquatic shot as a spec. Makes no sense at all.

Rahkim
03-17-2010, 10:40
I think people may be jumping the gun a little here. The archery specs dont sound like they were split very well imo either, BUT we've got an expansion on the way with a lot of armor that isnt currently available in the game, and new specs (that we havent heard about). These changes might not be so bad after those things are added.

Stirius
03-17-2010, 10:45
I also absolutely dont understand why for the god sake these small changes takes SO F...ING LONG??? I know many other games where this would be done in one week, not half a year... Sad, really sad.

evilsuxxor
03-17-2010, 10:50
very good news, thank you

exodus2
03-17-2010, 10:56
I think people may be jumping the gun a little here. The archery specs dont sound like they were split very well imo either, BUT we've got an expansion on the way with a lot of armor that isnt currently available in the game, and new specs (that we havent heard about). These changes might not be so bad after those things are added.

how is it ? the new specs even if there are 50 million new archery specs. you will still need to spec aqua shot to fight in water.

Archery Specs should be as Keno said pick 2.

Aqua shot shouldnt be a spec something as basic as having the ability to fight in the water should be either every1 in the game has it or no1 has it.

Vif
03-17-2010, 11:43
I hope u guys are implementing an upkeep to keep a war going on...
Like Eve Online did.

Pyro Kiddie
03-17-2010, 11:59
lol this patch just nerfed all of gingers pvp i guess

Glabro
03-17-2010, 12:07
I hope u guys are implementing an upkeep to keep a war going on...
Like Eve Online did.

/signed

Barf Mawg
03-17-2010, 12:10
Jump Shot and Aquatic shot should be defaulted to archers. All "specs" should be in addition to these staples.

Win, as usual.

Shioni
03-17-2010, 12:25
It is an improvement, I'll give them that. But at this point, can't get any worse really.

No it could, I was going to post that Water magic should have a spec to work in water but cock blocked other schools of magic

And they could always add in water based mounts like dolphins that have a sonic scream attack that damages everyone around you

Of course my idea's breed madness and chaos to your balanced world of order...

Of course someone once told me the funny thing about chaos is that it is fair :sly:

Shioni
03-17-2010, 12:29
Maybe we will have some other goodies actually in the patch next week.

I still hate being FORCED to take aquatic shot. You can't fight in the water without it.

Aquatic shot really should have a spell version if everyone is so butt hurt about being "forced" to take it

Vogular
03-17-2010, 12:32
Nice it will protect the safe cities alot more for new clan (players)

group 1: jump shoot'
aquatic'
mount shooting

group 2:
all types of non metal armor killer instead of player holding a staff +40%damage (so always extra damage on bone)
+resistance and health
manashield
reduce stamcost of archery
slighty inc shooting speed increase stamina use +10%?

if u ask me this is a better way to place them into group and i don't see why a staff should inc the damage but should be people in the wrong armor like the bone crap or leather orrrr robe....
A naked in a robe with rank 60 is still way to strong and the +40%damage buff won't change anything on a naked with 400 hp max ignore pain etcetc

Niburu
03-17-2010, 13:01
Nice it will protect the safe cities alot more for new clan (players)

group 1: jump shoot'
aquatic'
mount shooting

group 2:
all types of non metal armor killer instead of player holding a staff +40%damage (so always extra damage on bone)
+resistance and health
manashield
reduce stamcost of archery
slighty inc shooting speed increase stamina use +10%?

if u ask me this is a better way to place them into group and i don't see why a staff should inc the damage but should be people in the wrong armor like the bone crap or leather orrrr robe....
A naked in a robe with rank 60 is still way to strong and the +40%damage buff won't change anything on a naked with 400 hp max ignore pain etcetc
than take a R60+armor and you havea hughe adventage

raapnaap
03-17-2010, 13:21
I didn't read all posts but I generally agree with the disagreements regarding specs. Simply being allowed to pick 2 with all the freedom and no limitations seems fine to me (I'm a dedicated mage).

As for aquashot, remove the damn spec, make it standard, and allow water magic to be cast underwater to equal the field in water fights (and as a plus make water magic more used).

hitandmiss
03-17-2010, 13:22
Nice to hear abit of news, Now fix the bigest prop for carebear zergs in this game and end BINDSTONE KICKING

Sacra Luna
03-17-2010, 13:34
Awesome been waiting for this quite some time now since I'm destroyer.

Temko Firewing
03-17-2010, 13:36
Nice to hear abit of news, Now fix the bigest prop for carebear zergs in this game and end BINDSTONE KICKING

i hoped this would be in, something tells me Central agon would be a lot bussier place.

Hekkr
03-17-2010, 13:40
Nice it will protect the safe cities alot more for new clan (players)

group 1: jump shoot'
aquatic'
mount shooting

group 2:
all types of non metal armor killer instead of player holding a staff +40%damage (so always extra damage on bone)
+resistance and health
manashield
reduce stamcost of archery
slighty inc shooting speed increase stamina use +10%?

if u ask me this is a better way to place them into group and i don't see why a staff should inc the damage but should be people in the wrong armor like the bone crap or leather orrrr robe....
A naked in a robe with rank 60 is still way to strong and the +40%damage buff won't change anything on a naked with 400 hp max ignore pain etcetc

Mount shooting is the most horrible suggestion ive ever heard.

Frisca
03-17-2010, 13:47
Today we’ll take you behind the scenes and talk about some of the things Darkfall developers are working on for the next patch.

There are some changes to the War Declaration system in the works: It won’t be free anymore to declare war and it won’t be instantaneous. If a clan declares war, there’s a fee taken out of its clan vault. After that happens the status changes to WARY and all clan members will be notified of the upcoming war. There’s a system message visible to members of both clans with the time remaining until status changes to “Enemy”. Clan members logging in after the fact will be notified as well.

Another feature the community has been asking about is Archery Specialization. Archery specialization will be split into two groups and each character can select one from each group. The first group contains Mana shield, Mage Killer and Jump Shot while the second contains Aquatic Shot, Mage Hunter and Master Scout.

These changes, along with other things, will be patched in sometime next week.

We’ll also let you know that we’re always looking for information about Darkfall 2010. At the moment however, the developers are focused on finalizing their decisions and tests of included features before they can start sharing more information.


I hope for real features ... not "content". GJ with the war part, was LONG overdue.

hitandmiss
03-17-2010, 14:00
While I will say War decs were 90% used for newb killing I would like to point out this kills supprise sieges....

As soon as u war dec a guild whos got a place there gonner be expecting a siege as soon as its up

DAA KAPUTTMACHA
03-17-2010, 14:15
While I will say War decs were 90% used for newb killing I would like to point out this kills supprise sieges....

As soon as u war dec a guild whos got a place there gonner be expecting a siege as soon as its up

Well, maybe that means a little pvp before/while a siege is dropped instead of sneaking in city perimeter, wardec, siegedrop and running away.

halloween morte
03-17-2010, 14:32
While I will say War decs were 90% used for newb killing I would like to point out this kills supprise sieges....

As soon as u war dec a guild whos got a place there gonner be expecting a siege as soon as its up

Sooooo, Drop a dec and wait a week let them sweat it out...:sly:

halloween morte
03-17-2010, 14:43
I also absolutely dont understand why for the god sake these small changes takes SO F...ING LONG??? I know many other games where this would be done in one week, not half a year... Sad, really sad.

Maybe they are BUG checking...

Remember the "you must hit the target to skill" change? Battlespike anyone??

With all the fucking asshat exploiters in this game they had better check shit before releaseing it... "it's intended... if they didn't want it like that it would not be in game" LOL ...

Report bugs don't keep them to yourself and exploit it untill someone reports it and finally gets it fixed..but I guess that isn't hardcore...:lmao:

If the shoe fits... you suck IRL ...

Temko Firewing
03-17-2010, 15:07
Sooooo, Drop a dec and wait a week let them sweat it out...:sly:

truth.

Mapi
03-17-2010, 15:33
So now before you can siege a holding one must first plan ahead a week of time to WAR declare the enemy giving them a weeks preperation time of a possible siege impending (after this change wardeclarations will only happen for sieges).

As if sieges ALONE weren't expensive enough now you add a wardecleration cost? This entire system is one big flaw and good job to leading your own game to impending doom.

The end. (of Darkfall)

Manik78
03-17-2010, 15:39
I can hardly believe it took you this amount of time (since last patch) to program two additions/changes to two in-game mechanics.
.


"These changes, along with other things, will be patched in sometime next week."

Learn to read :rolleyes:

Izure
03-17-2010, 15:46
So now before you can siege a holding one must first plan ahead a week of time to WAR declare the enemy giving them a weeks preperation time of a possible siege impending (after this change wardeclarations will only happen for sieges).

As if sieges ALONE weren't expensive enough now you add a wardecleration cost? This entire system is one big flaw and good job to leading your own game to impending doom.

The end. (of Darkfall)
Everything is flawed atm, sieging, archery vs magic, lack of sandbox elements, stupid grind for a lot of stupid skills, no utilities for archeries, no diversity, mages can have jump shot and aqua shot making them the better as before( probably forever), any archer picking mage hunter and/or kill, will be gimped by the mage who picks( and they all will if they arent retarded) jump and aqua shot.

Nerfing archery and sieging even more, and the fact that every siege is a slideshow( at least to 90% of the community, we usually all get 5-25 fps these days in sieges, due to shitty mechanics implemented).

No one liked the 2-4 am sieges, but this is stupid.

Should of just made a way for 1 clan to place a 8 hour no siege drop zone on 1 holding, thus making clans only wanting to have 1 holding. Also make binding to a sieged clan impossible, unless you were in the clan prior to the siege, all other clans should get kicked off the bindstone when siege is dropped, also they shouldnt be able to rebind, so the defenders have the advantage, but they cant recreate the zerg( which is every siege nowadays) every time they die.

AV, these problems above and the fact you have no sandbox elements outside a few broken tools are the reason why people are playing other games and just searching these forums every day or so seeing if a miracle happened.

Keno
03-17-2010, 15:49
Mount shooting is the most horrible suggestion ive ever heard.

Mounted Archery could work if they implemented it right.

Pro Tip: Did you know Mounted Archery WAS IN DARKFALL the first month or so of the game?

Keno
03-17-2010, 15:51
New expansion on the way? It's at least 4 months away and it's not an expansion, it's a patch that will focus on improving the graphics and animations and will add some minor customization options to players.

For the sake of DF, DF 2010 can not just be graphical updates, or its over.

Keno
03-17-2010, 15:51
"These changes, along with other things, will be patched in sometime next week."

Learn to read :rolleyes:

Hoping those other changes are good :P Can't wait to see what they entail.

Tibernicus
03-17-2010, 15:54
Fuckin fail av. way to put jump shot and mage killer together, as well as forcing people to have to spec into aquatic shit. Epic fail.

Looks like some people will never be happy. Suck it up. You were never meant to be able to fire bows under water, it was an exploit before. If you plan to be near water, get aquatic shot, if not, stick with whatever the fuck you want. And jump shot SHOULD be a spec, until they make it so that jumping or sprinting makes your aim go wide.

You archers are almost as big whiners as the pole arm users.

Keno
03-17-2010, 15:58
Looks like some people will never be happy. Suck it up. You were never meant to be able to fire bows under water, it was an exploit before. If you plan to be near water, get aquatic shot, if not, stick with whatever the fuck you want. And jump shot SHOULD be a spec, until they make it so that jumping or sprinting makes your aim go wide.

You archers are almost as big whiners as the pole arm users.

Says the mage who jumps around cycling rank 50's at the ground.

Cool

Izure
03-17-2010, 16:00
Looks like some people will never be happy. Suck it up. You were never meant to be able to fire bows under water, it was an exploit before. If you plan to be near water, get aquatic shot, if not, stick with whatever the fuck you want. And jump shot SHOULD be a spec, until they make it so that jumping or sprinting makes your aim go wide.

You archers are almost as big whiners as the pole arm users.

Obvious common sense does not apply to this fella.

Tibernicus
03-17-2010, 16:06
Mounted Archery could work if they implemented it right.

Pro Tip: Did you know Mounted Archery WAS IN DARKFALL the first month or so of the game?

Wow, you're full of shit.

In every game I have ever played, mounted archery is the most imbalanced and annoying thing.

In every RTS game (Age of Empires, Rome Total War, Medieval Total War) even in medieval FPS games (Mount and Blade Warband) cavalry archers are annoying and almost impossible to counter. This is why the huns and mongols swept across Asia and Europe. It just doesn't work.

And no, mounted combat was not in the game at launch. It has always been the stance of AV, since I joined the website (some time in late 2006) not to have ranged combat on mounts. If you were using ranged combat on a mount, it was an exploit.

Tsalarian
03-17-2010, 16:06
How about the devs present us with their ideas and let the community decide what new features and changes go in and HOW they are implemented, instead of having them just blindly put shit in that never works correctly and is worthless.

The community does not agree. (unless your idea of community is still just the few people who edits your list)

Keno
03-17-2010, 16:07
The community does not agree. (unless your idea of community is still just the few people who edits your list)

More QQ by sun. Mega zerg who still owns way to many holdings on EU who wont be able to bind kick soon.

Sucks I feel for ya 2 brah

Tibernicus
03-17-2010, 16:07
Says the mage who jumps around cycling rank 50's at the ground.

Cool

I'm not a mage, but thanks for the assumption.

Keno
03-17-2010, 16:08
And no, mounted combat was not in the game at launch. It has always been the stance of AV, since I joined the website (some time in late 2006) not to have ranged combat on mounts. If you were using ranged combat on a mount, it was an exploit.

Your an idiot. MOUNTED COMBAT WAS IN DARKFALL. It was not intended, but it was in the game.

Tsalarian
03-17-2010, 16:08
More QQ by sun. Mega zerg who still owns way to many holdings on EU who wont be able to bind kick soon.

Sucks I feel for ya 2 brah

The only one crying here is you.

Keno
03-17-2010, 16:09
The only one crying here is you.

Then you should re read this entire thread again, and report back to me. You know, like a 3rd grade book report due.

Izure
03-17-2010, 16:13
The only one crying here is you.

Actually he is trying to help the game, if you read is previous posts and werent known as a "special" guy you would know this.

But sense you dont, I guess have fun playing with the 500? people left, im sure after killing each other 50 times, the game is going to get better.

Keno
03-17-2010, 16:14
Actually he is trying to help the game, if you read is previous posts and werent known as a "special" guy you would know this.

But sense you dont, I guess have fun playing with the 500? people left, im sure after killing each other 50 times, the game is going to get better.

EU does not have a population of 500.
NA Maybe.(but not much higher)

Izure
03-17-2010, 16:15
EU does not have a population of 500.
NA Maybe.(but not much higher)

O he is EU? then 250? killing every other player 100 times, then the game will get better, I KNOW IT!

hitandmiss
03-17-2010, 16:16
Id prefer to see something like this,

Say seiging a city cost 100k

now theres diff ways to siege a city,

Giving them 24hour warning costs 100% of the fee,
Giving them 42 hour warning cost 75% of the fee,
Giving them 6 hour warning * a rapid seige* costs 200% of the fee,

Adds a bit more dynamic to the seiging system on timers and such, Also Citys should have an upkeep cost, like 1k a day which should be payable at the stone, failure to pay for 7 days and you loose the city, Get actives at a city, and make ghost towns up for grabs.

Elmi
03-17-2010, 16:16
If you were using ranged combat on a mount, it was an exploit.


Your an idiot. It was not intended.

Sooo, who is idiot? :)
Keno, really, stfu. Your mastery of forumcrying surged long time ago. No need to grind it any futher.

Tibernicus
03-17-2010, 16:20
EU does not have a population of 500.
NA Maybe.(but not much higher)

Yup. That's the last straw. All credibility is now gone.


What do you thing guys, Izure and this guy, the new Ginger and Kranzor?

Keno
03-17-2010, 16:20
Sooo, who is idiot? :)
Keno, really, stfu. Your mastery of forumcrying surged long time ago. No need to grind it any futher.

Sorry bro, don't want to see the game fail.

Tsalarian
03-17-2010, 16:30
Then you should re read this entire thread again, and report back to me. You know, like a 3rd grade book report due.

Fair enough, let me rephrase then:
The only one of us crying is you.

Keno
03-17-2010, 16:36
Fair enough, let me rephrase then:
The only one of us crying is you.

Truth, I can deal with that.

Kimoshu
03-17-2010, 16:37
And no, mounted combat was not in the game at launch. It has always been the stance of AV, since I joined the website (some time in late 2006) not to have ranged combat on mounts. If you were using ranged combat on a mount, it was an exploit.

Your an idiot. MOUNTED COMBAT WAS IN DARKFALL. It was not intended, but it was in the game.

I believe you just said the same thing he did Keno, you are making yourself look like an idiot here... Also 500 players on NA? Do you play this game or do you just play forumfall? There's probably 500 people in human/ork lands alone during primetime on NA...

No offense Keno but you seem to be developing a bit of a forumfall god-complex. Contrary to your apparent thoughts on the matter everyone is entitled to their opinion and if it doesn't agree with yours it doesn't make them wrong. If all your ideas on the wishlist were implemented I know I would probably leave Darkfall because only 1/3 or so of that list are things that I agree would be good to change/add in, and those are the obvious ones like the bindkicking to holdings and adding a timer to changing house guests to remove mass house teleport. The majority of your sweeping changes you want to make to the game would be paving over a lot of the little bit of sand we still have in the box and then what would we use to make castles? :sly:

-Andrew

Izure
03-17-2010, 16:43
I believe you just said the same thing he did Keno, you are making yourself look like an idiot here... Also 500 players on NA? Do you play this game or do you just play forumfall? There's probably 500 people in human/ork lands alone during primetime on NA...

No offense Keno but you seem to be developing a bit of a forumfall god-complex. Contrary to your apparent thoughts on the matter everyone is entitled to their opinion and if it doesn't agree with yours it doesn't make them wrong. If all your ideas on the wishlist were implemented I know I would probably leave Darkfall because only 1/3 or so of that list are things that I agree would be good to change/add in, and those are the obvious ones like the bindkicking to holdings and adding a timer to changing house guests to remove mass house teleport. The majority of your sweeping changes you want to make to the game would be paving over a lot of the little bit of sand we still have in the box and then what would we use to make castles? :sly:

-Andrew

Sorry but to think there is more than 500 actives on NA is lying to yourself, hell we had a siege, Where every alliance was there, and I dont think it went over 200.

Explain to me how you think Darkfall is not dying, Whole servers going to 1 siege for a worthless territory, just because they cant find Open pvp anymore due to low population, but ya the game isnt dying, lol what a joke.

Elmi
03-17-2010, 16:46
Sorry bro, don't want to see the game fail.

That's understandable. However, do you realise, that repeating same things in hysterical manner wont help anyhow?

FastEddy
03-17-2010, 16:49
I dont really understand how anyone can read this update and be happy with the status of darkfall.

Keno
03-17-2010, 16:51
I dont really understand how anyone can read this update and be happy with the status of darkfall.

Ding Ding Ding

Izure
03-17-2010, 16:52
I dont really understand how anyone can read this update and be happy with the status of darkfall.

Well dude, it will only be 15 years with this progression before we get the advertised game. HOPE IS THERE lol.

Keno
03-17-2010, 16:52
I believe you just said the same thing he did Keno, you are making yourself look like an idiot here... Also 500 players on NA? Do you play this game or do you just play forumfall? There's probably 500 people in human/ork lands alone during primetime on NA...

No offense Keno but you seem to be developing a bit of a forumfall god-complex. Contrary to your apparent thoughts on the matter everyone is entitled to their opinion and if it doesn't agree with yours it doesn't make them wrong. If all your ideas on the wishlist were implemented I know I would probably leave Darkfall because only 1/3 or so of that list are things that I agree would be good to change/add in, and those are the obvious ones like the bindkicking to holdings and adding a timer to changing house guests to remove mass house teleport. The majority of your sweeping changes you want to make to the game would be paving over a lot of the little bit of sand we still have in the box and then what would we use to make castles? :sly:

-Andrew

More people would come to the game or re-sub if half of those changes were implemented. The key thing is..


More people would come back or continue playing then there was people leaving.

Noxide
03-17-2010, 16:59
I'd return just as soon as they admit the last epic expansion was all just a hokes. Or if they promised some sort of near future cool gadget to be implemented, like something meaningful. Where art thou cool intentions

natris
03-17-2010, 16:59
More people would come to the game or re-sub if half of those changes were implemented. The key thing is..


More people would come back or continue playing then there was people leaving.

The all-knowing God has spoken, and he has Izure on his side! Eventually Aventurine will have to give up and hire him as a main game designed to prevent the forum database to overflow from the sheer number of spam him and his clique generate daily on the forums :)

Keno
03-17-2010, 17:01
The all-knowing God has spoken, and he has Izure on his side! Eventually Aventurine will have to give up and hire him as a main game designed to prevent the forum database to overflow from the sheer number of spam him and his clique generate daily on the forums :)

They should post google adds here on the boards, I could generate them millions.

Lando
03-17-2010, 17:04
Sorry bro, don't want to see the game fail.

many games went worse because they listen to much on the forum cryiers :rolleyes:

and google ads gives minus points in style, bro :sly:

@topic:
very nice! perfect! go on with it ;)

poor ginger :lmao:

Keno
03-17-2010, 17:10
many games went worse because they listen to much on the forum cryiers :rolleyes:

and google ads gives minus points in style, bro :sly:

@topic:
very nice! perfect! go on with it ;)

poor ginger :lmao:

Kidding about the google adds.

You mean when polearms really didn't need a nerf but many were crying about it so they nerfed it? True that. I guess we just got to wait and see what is in the rest of this patch.... I mean, there has to be more, you don't take 3 months to change some if statements in the coding.

Jango1337
03-17-2010, 17:18
Kidding about the google adds.

You mean when polearms really didn't need a nerf but many were crying about it so they nerfed it? True that. I guess we just got to wait and see what is in the rest of this patch.... I mean, there has to be more, you don't take 3 months to change some if statements in the coding.

don't forget them giving magic to everyone at the beginning because everyone was QQ'ing about non-opposing schools. How did that work out? :rolleyes:

Kiad
03-17-2010, 17:22
don't forget them giving magic to everyone at the beginning because everyone was QQ'ing about non-opposing schools. How did that work out? :rolleyes:

And all the idiots that were crying about jump shooting.

Bottom line, the community in general is retarded. If you make changes based on the 20 guys crying on the boards, you will alienate the 2000 who are playing the game and loving it and NOT crying on the boards.

chokke
03-17-2010, 17:24
would be OP if they allow

aquatic + mage killer + jump shot

It's op if they allow jump shot, aqua shot, and then you can jumpcast with a few of your spells, damage on some other, speed for the bolts, range for some of the big ones etc. Oh wait..
Bly blocking off the spells, you are also blocking out the ability to jump-anything, so please, AV, for the sake of balance in this game, do something constructive, for once.

Keno
03-17-2010, 17:25
And all the idiots that were crying about jump shooting.

Bottom line, the community in general is retarded. If you make changes based on the 20 guys crying on the boards, you will alienate the 2000 who are playing the game and loving it and NOT crying on the boards.

2000? Bro, come on.......... How many would you say is active on EU?

Rekshop
03-17-2010, 17:33
I think the lesson to be learned from this entire thread is...

WE NEED A TEST SERVER

Kelsen
03-17-2010, 17:35
2000? Bro, come on.......... How many would you say is active on EU?

According to Urme map

9977 Inactive (81%)
2320 Active (19%)

Anyone know how they get the server stats anyway?

Damn sorry off topic, War dec changes are great.

Izure
03-17-2010, 17:35
I think the lesson to be learned from this entire thread is...

WE NEED A TEST SERVER

LOL thats step 1, to bad its a little late, 90% of the core left this game before it was release or during the first month of launch.

And yes a lot of people did cry bout jump shooting and magic, and now we got specs for jump shooting and unbalanced/retarded magic spam.Polearms didnt need a nerf yet they did it anyways.

Kiad
03-17-2010, 17:35
2000? Bro, come on.......... How many would you say is active on EU?

800+. I would estimate 1500+ on NA1. Total actives, not online simultaneously.

Izure
03-17-2010, 17:38
800+. I would estimate 1500+ on NA1. Total actives, not online simultaneously.

People macro'ing under the world dont count bro.

Kelsen
03-17-2010, 17:42
According to Urme map

9977 Inactive (81%)
2320 Active (19%)


And the US political map shows

677 Active (39.36%)
1043 Inactive (60.64%)

Keno
03-17-2010, 17:43
And the US political map shows

677 Active (39.36%)
1043 Inactive (60.64%)

That is about right. Ouch

Izure
03-17-2010, 17:45
That is about right. Ouch

Wait til the end of the first( like me) 6th month subs start to run out, that is the only reason why I am on the forums and others are to make the game playable and populated, and making balance.

Ginger Magician
03-17-2010, 18:13
This war declaration change needs to be very carefully handled.I have no objection in principle to there being a grace period until a war starts.
The fee for declaring war is also ok as long as it kept to a reasonable figure say 500g to 1k or maybe make it more for larger clans but small clans should still be able to declare war for a small fee.

If these changes come in as I propose above its fine with me as apart from a minor gold cost and slight delay before war starts it will not affect my gameplay.
What does concern me however if the fee is too large and costly for small clans then all that will happen is that every war declared clan will simply dissolve and rename themselves with a new name and the same exact members and you will be forced to pay a large fee to redeclare them as well as wait for war to start.

If it comes in like this and its too expensive to declare war for smaller clans then all you will get is that carebears sit in npc cities all day doing nothing and it will be the end of the game for small clans and soloists who will quit out of boredom.

But implement it right and there is no problem with it IMO.

EDIT.Another potential banana skin which I just thought of is that people who are war declared will leave the clan before war becomes active.With the cost of making clans so cheap this would be an easy get out clause for lamers and there must certainly be a mechanic to prevent players simply leaving their clan as soon as war is declared.

Devs need to realize that people who play these sort of full loot MMOs are a bunch of cowards who will utilize every possible trick in the book to evade the consequences of their actions.One excellent feature of the current insta war declare system is that you can punish those who ninja loot your kills in town.Recently I had one very bad case of a gold farming clan who was ninja looting my kills in sanguine.One simple war dec and gank later the problem was solved.With this delay in war declaration ninja looters and clan leavers/joiners could have a field day if there are not mechanics to prevent it.

Dragoon
03-17-2010, 18:16
People are just lining up to quit this game.

The only reason the majority of DF's players stick around is because there are no alternatives as far as games released within the last several years. If you like full loot PvP in a fantasy MMO setting what else is there? Literally nothing

If a half decent company who knew what they were doing created an MMO then Aventurine would shut down DF's servers within 60 days.

Keno
03-17-2010, 18:19
The only reason the majority of DF's players stick around is because there are no alternatives as far as games released within the last several years. If you like full loot PvP in a fantasy MMO setting what else is there? Literally nothing

If a half decent company who knew what they were doing created an MMO then Aventurine would shut down DF's servers within 60 days.

Agreed

DAA KAPUTTMACHA
03-17-2010, 18:21
If these changes come in as I propose above its fine with me as apart from a minor gold cost and slight delay before war starts it will not affect my gameplay.


:lmao::lmao::lmao:

Sure... :lmao:

Dr Fuenke
03-17-2010, 18:21
You arent playing the mage killer spec correctly. If you want to spec mage killer, its because you want to keep people from using their staff. That means you are charging mages while firing arrows at them. If they try and jump kite you, they eat back shots. If they melee you, they should lose because you will do more damage than them unless you gear like shit. And bone+scale for "optimal" damage is gearing like shit. 1 month newbies on EU1 gear in that crap. Mage killer/destroyer is best for the 40-50% of population that has shitty magic so theres NO downside to taking it, and for players who like team fights and can afford to actually gear well. Magekiller/Destoryer is ridiculous if you have decent players around you to buff and heal you instead of FF you like I see in most fights in NA. I'm sorry but anyone who thinks bone+scale is optimal just doesnt know enough about the game to comment on balance.

You obviously know nothing about archery encumbrance.

Izure
03-17-2010, 18:22
You obviously know nothing about archery encumbrance.

Dont know if you know this, but he hasnt touched archery since magic became the IWIN and still is the IWIN button for almost every situation except for water fighting.

Dr Fuenke
03-17-2010, 18:28
Dont know if you know this, but he hasnt touched archery since magic became the IWIN and still is the IWIN button for almost every situation except for water fighting.

Probably. I love all the einsteins who always think they win an archery discussion by saying "If youz aint gearing in infernal+fo+dragon you is just a scrub noob. infernal will make your bow leet"

GluttonySDS
03-17-2010, 18:36
This war declaration change needs to be very carefully handled.I have no objection in principle to there being a grace period until a war starts.
The fee for declaring war is also ok as long as it kept to a reasonable figure say 500g to 1k or maybe make it more for larger clans but small clans should still be able to declare war for a small fee.

If these changes come in as I propose above its fine with me as apart from a minor gold cost and slight delay before war starts it will not affect my gameplay.
What does concern me however if the fee is too large and costly for small clans then all that will happen is that every war declared clan will simply dissolve and rename themselves with a new name and the same exact members and you will be forced to pay a large fee to redeclare them as well as wait for war to start.

If it comes in like this and its too expensive to declare war for smaller clans then all you will get is that carebears sit in npc cities all day doing nothing and it will be the end of the game for small clans and soloists who will quit out of boredom.

But implement it right and there is no problem with it IMO.

EDIT.Another potential banana skin which I just thought of is that people who are war declared will leave the clan before war becomes active.With the cost of making clans so cheap this would be an easy get out clause for lamers and there must certainly be a mechanic to prevent players simply leaving their clan as soon as war is declared.

Devs need to realize that people who play these sort of full loot MMOs are a bunch of cowards who will utilize every possible trick in the book to evade the consequences of their actions.One excellent feature of the current insta war declare system is that you can punish those who ninja loot your kills in town.Recently I had one very bad case of a gold farming clan who was ninja looting my kills in sanguine.One simple war dec and gank later the problem was solved.With this delay in war declaration ninja looters and clan leavers/joiners could have a field day if there are not mechanics to prevent it.

Who cares about war decs other than those who fight in NPC cities... i.e. Scrubs.

Stanleyxd
03-17-2010, 18:37
And the US political map shows

677 Active (39.36%)
1043 Inactive (60.64%)

lol nah.... someone messed with it. i mean look at the alliance list Desert shitties have 111 members including inactive? lol

Izure
03-17-2010, 18:38
Probably. I love all the einsteins who always think they win an archery discussion by saying "If youz aint gearing in infernal+fo+dragon you is just a scrub noob. infernal will make your bow leet"

Ya and he bases balance around the top 5 pvpers, who use surging buffs/heals and dragon/infernal/fp q5 enchanted gear/weapons/350ish hp, that fight scrub mages, also they use 1-3 bhorns each fight. And the mages they fight use black bolts and still make him mount up and fight that way.

Ginger Magician
03-17-2010, 18:42
Who cares about war decs other than those who fight in NPC cities... i.e. Scrubs.

Every player in the game is involved in wars to some extent.If you want to remove the option to war dec allied races then remove alignment loss as well and remove towers from all areas except starter cities.
Wars are an integral part of the mechanics.You cannot even siege a hamlet without first declaring war on the holding clan.This is a very important part of the game and as I said it needs careful thinking and handling.

I really hope they do not screw this up like they have done so many times before with badly thought out changes to fundamental game mechanics.

GluttonySDS
03-17-2010, 18:48
Every player in the game is involved in wars to some extent.If you want to remove the option to war dec allied races then remove alignment loss as well and remove towers from all areas except starter cities.
Wars are an integral part of the mechanics.You cannot even siege a hamlet without first declaring war on the holding clan.This is a very important part of the game and as I said it needs careful thinking and handling.

I really hope they do not screw this up like they have done so many times before with badly thought out changes to fundamental game mechanics.

Warring is an integral part of the game? Yes, you need to declare a war when you drop a siege which happens what, once every 3 months?

gorfhag
03-17-2010, 18:52
I would like to say thank you AV for revealing this before the end of march.

I was about to use that discount on 6 month subscription one week ago. Atm Im not playing DF for 4 days as Im playing battlefield, but was thinking to buy those 6 months on the end of march. Now I'm glad that I did not purchased it and let me know that it is not worth buing. Thanks for saving me some cash, hope you won't miss it :lmao:

Kiad
03-17-2010, 18:53
You obviously know nothing about archery encumbrance.

Ya I'm gonna take lessons from a guy playing since Feb.

Izure
03-17-2010, 18:55
Ya I'm gonna take lessons from a guy playing since Feb.

Well since you are so agreeable with AV, you and them must be doing great with the 1500 people that play this game LOL.

Ill wait til 500ish are left before you start crying about population being to low.

Its funny how retards call people archers, when they shoot 3-4 shots miss 50% of them, and do 90% of the damage on a mount or foot melee.

God people must be blind or something.

traucy
03-17-2010, 18:55
Who cares about war decs other than those who fight in NPC cities... i.e. Scrubs.

LolS? so solo players are scrubs? I think the scrubs are the ones that join huge clans/alliances to be protected, i.e you. you sound like a person that is prb in an alliance/ clan and hides behind em.

GluttonySDS
03-17-2010, 18:57
LolS? so solo players are scrubs? I think the scrubs are the ones that join huge clans/alliances to be protected, i.e you. you sound like a person that is prb in an alliance/ clan and hides behind em.

Wtf are you talking about? Are you worried about going red? Thats what chaos cities are for...

The only people crying about the war dec changes are those who used to insta war guilds when they saw people crafting in an NPC city -- that shit was retarded and its finally being fixed.

traucy
03-17-2010, 18:59
Wtf are you talking about? Are you worried about going red? Thats what chaos cities are for...

The only people crying about the war dec changes are those who used to insta war guilds when they saw people crafting in an NPC city -- that shit was retarded and its finally being fixed.

Wtf are you talking about, You said only scrubs like the new war dec... gtfo nub.

GluttonySDS
03-17-2010, 19:01
Wtf are you talking about, You said only scrubs like the new war dec... gtfo nub.

I said only scrubs would complain about the changes to the war dec system... war decs in general are for scrubs -- people scared to go red and live in a chaos city are not going to be good players.

Keno
03-17-2010, 19:06
Wtf are you talking about, You said only scrubs like the new war dec... gtfo nub.

umad kid?

Kaol
03-17-2010, 19:08
Kind of dissapointed by the archery specs. When someone said there were new archery specs i was quite happy, but turns out they are just letting you take jump and aquatic shot but not mage killer.

This could have been done in about 20 minutes and should have been in for months.

Deerhunter
03-17-2010, 19:27
And the US political map shows

677 Active (39.36%)
1043 Inactive (60.64%)

Ouch indeed - like Izure said when those 6 month subs run out AV can only pray :confused:

I wonder if the 677 are unique or also include alts logged on AFK-crafting, etc. while they go PvP with the main?

Keno
03-17-2010, 19:28
Kind of dissapointed by the archery specs. When someone said there were new archery specs i was quite happy, but turns out they are just letting you take jump and aquatic shot but not mage killer.

This could have been done in about 20 minutes and should have been in for months.

yupp

Laz
03-17-2010, 19:38
So your telling me you cannot get Mage Killer and Jump Shot?

Icing on the cake.....

AND AQUATIC SHOT IS STILL A SPEC!!!!!!

WOW.............

Keno, I hate agreeing with you.

But ffs AV, you really don't know how to listen. I also seriously question why it takes so long to make the miniscule changes that are made.

Adûn_East
03-17-2010, 20:02
I hope AV realizes its the same 5-6 people that keep QQing about how weak archery is and how powerful magic is. Somehow they've blown this up to about 13 pages so far.

When will you scrubs realize, archery is MORE powerful than magery at end game because you can wear heavier armor with FAR less penalty. The heavier armor you can wear gives you WAY more advantage in melee where the most damage can be dealt in the shortest amount of time (DPS). A player who relies on archery in a FP suit and stone skin/selfbuffs can out damage any magery reliant DPS player with ease. I know NA1 players don't seem to have the ability to grasp this, but EU1 archers are raping face every day in game with this instead of QQing on boards.

Now, does this mean you need magery to be the best you can be? Yes! Does it also mean you will need archery to be the best you can be? Yes! Thats the best part about DF. You CANNOT just ignore an entire aspect of combat and be the best!

No Pure PVP game has ever thrived when the PVP is balanced around only a particular setting of combat. Only in large scale does archery/melee have a real function, and only then with exceptional equipment. This same criteria for viability transfers down to small scale, a setting where you don't have the same type of support to remotely justify the cost. Without this very particular gear setup, archery is invalidated by magic in every conceivable way. With the gear setup, it's merely fair game. Obviously something is wrong there. Not to mention archery's complete lack of unencumbered/blocked utility. It seems that your perspective is from someone who takes part in the majority large scale battles as well as having free and easy access to the top end equipment - because it's clear as day and common as water for the majority of players that magic vs archery for anything but mass scale is and has been completely unbalanced.

Kiad
03-17-2010, 20:06
No Pure PVP game has ever thrived when the PVP is balanced around only a particular setting of combat. Only in large scale does archery/melee have a real function, and only then with exceptional equipment. This same criteria for viability transfers down to small scale, a setting where you don't have the same type of support to remotely justify the cost. Without this very particular gear setup, archery is invalidated by magic in every conceivable way. With the gear setup, it's merely fair game. Obviously something is wrong there. Not to mention archery's complete lack of unencumbered/blocked utility. It seems that your perspective is from someone who takes part in the majority large scale battles as well as having free and easy access to the top end equipment - because it's clear as day and common as water for the majority of players that magic vs archery for anything but mass scale is and has been completely unbalanced.

Top 5 scorers in the week long EU1 PK contest where there was only 1 siege in a server not known for frequent large scale battles:
1) magic user
2) archery
3) archery
4) archery
5) archery

Yes it is true that top end equipment is easier to get on EU1. As NA1 progresses, it will get easier there as well. Armor breaks slower than it is farmed and created. There is no reason for AV to make long term changes for short term problems.

One problem is the lack of knowledge in NA1. I mean, you have Spade who controls a guild in what is supposidely one of the best Merc alliances thinking he should gear in bone and scale set for optimal damage with bow. Once people realize what to gear in, it will be farmed more, crafted more, and be more prevalent.

Izure
03-17-2010, 20:15
Top 5 scorers in the week long EU1 PK contest where there was only 1 siege in a server not known for frequent large scale battles:
1) magic user
2) archery
3) archery
4) archery
5) archery

Yes it is true that top end equipment is easier to get on EU1. As NA1 progresses, it will get easier there as well. Armor breaks slower than it is farmed and created. There is no reason for AV to make long term changes for short term problems.

One problem is the lack of knowledge in NA1. I mean, you have Spade who controls a guild in what is supposidely one of the best Merc alliances thinking he should gear in bone and scale set for optimal damage with bow. Once people realize what to gear in, it will be farmed more, crafted more, and be more prevalent.

So the top 5 pvp'ers changed to archer, does not mean it is balanced.

They probably also all have high hp with tons of gold to use for the best or close it gear with 3 bhorns.

Fact is, Archery vs Magic, Magic wins in every stats test I tested and others have, with no aiming compared to archery required.

Also EU pk contest doesnt change anything.

half the kills they got were on mounts, Not archery, just because they shot 1-3 shots instead of 1-3 fireballs does not mean they are archers, it means they used archery bcause they have too high of a ecumb in magic as an Opener, and they finish most of their kills with melee/mounts.

If you dont see this, you are blinded.

Adun is right, you are wrong.

With your top 5, how many shots compared to melee did that So called "archer" shoot, or is that too detailed for ya? lol.

They probably used 10% archer 90% melee/mount.

That is not a archer, that is a mount/melee that uses archer has a opener.

That is all archery is good at atm, is a opener. I would like to see it be a combat style we can use competitively.

Keno
03-17-2010, 20:15
No Pure PVP game has ever thrived when the PVP is balanced around only a particular setting of combat. Only in large scale does archery/melee have a real function, and only then with exceptional equipment. This same criteria for viability transfers down to small scale, a setting where you don't have the same type of support to remotely justify the cost. Without this very particular gear setup, archery is invalidated by magic in every conceivable way. With the gear setup, it's merely fair game. Obviously something is wrong there. Not to mention archery's complete lack of unencumbered/blocked utility. It seems that your perspective is from someone who takes part in the majority large scale battles as well as having free and easy access to the top end equipment - because it's clear as day and common as water for the majority of players that magic vs archery for anything but mass scale is and has been completely unbalanced.
qft

Kimoshu
03-17-2010, 20:15
Ouch indeed - like Izure said when those 6 month subs run out AV can only pray :confused:

I wonder if the 677 are unique or also include alts logged on AFK-crafting, etc. while they go PvP with the main?

While that site(http://darkfallinfo.com/pmap/index.php?page=serverstats) can be used as at least some sort of data of activity their methods of determining activity are pretty inaccurate as I believe it is solely based on changes within a clan such as promotion, demotion, changing clans and alignment changes. It marked me as inactive for ~2 months because I was traveling around almost all of Agon in enemy racial areas(I'm alfar) and I killed hundreds of players, got killed many times as well and played usually 10-15hrs a week at that time; I was SG of my 2-3 man clan the whole time so I never was active. Also this only counts clanned members and not unclanned players which there are many of. I applaud the site for an attempt at server statistics but honestly with their pretty inaccurate methods of tracking active clan members they should remove that statistic from their site. Originally I was quite impressed with it also but as time passed and I looked to it and realized the huge shortcomings of their detection methods I don't consider it anymore.

-Andrew

Kimoshu
03-17-2010, 20:17
Sorry can't edit...

"I was SG of my 2-3 man clan the whole time so I never was active."

I meant according to the darkfallinfo site I was never active, I was on 10-15hrs a week during that time.

-Andrew

Fall
03-17-2010, 20:23
Top 5 scorers in the week long EU1 PK contest where there was only 1 siege in a server not known for frequent large scale battles:
1) magic user
2) archery
3) archery
4) archery
5) archery

Yes it is true that top end equipment is easier to get on EU1. As NA1 progresses, it will get easier there as well. Armor breaks slower than it is farmed and created. There is no reason for AV to make long term changes for short term problems.

One problem is the lack of knowledge in NA1. I mean, you have Spade who controls a guild in what is supposidely one of the best Merc alliances thinking he should gear in bone and scale set for optimal damage with bow. Once people realize what to gear in, it will be farmed more, crafted more, and be more prevalent.

Those guys you're talking about have no problems in using a silverbranch or a good gravesong with q4 or 5 and infernal + fp with enchants. That's pretty much the minority of the df population. And even if you can bring the equipment and start a pk tour. You won't loot this kinda stuff from your victims. You pretty much slowly trash your good stuff and loot in exchange some mediocre bone armors and blackbolts.

Mapi
03-17-2010, 20:30
Remove the Specialization system it's ruining the game, implement a skill-cap instead.

However, since Aventurine is too stubborn to do this (which will eventually lead to Darkfall's demise) they should allow you to choose specializations in one school only.

i.e if you pick an archery specialization your melee + magic specializations will be disabled.

This is retarded.

Izure
03-17-2010, 20:31
Those guys you're talking about have no problems in using a silverbranch or a good gravesong with q4 or 5 and infernal + fp with enchants. That's pretty much the minority of the df population. And even if you can bring the equipment and start a pk tour. You won't loot this kinda stuff from your victims. You pretty much slowly trash your good stuff and loot in exchange some mediocre bone armors and blackbolts.

Dude dont trust kiad, he is a known magic whore, and will stick to the IWIN button and defend it.

He also doesnt mention that he considers a player a archer because he shoots 1-3 shots of archery instead of fireball for an opener and does the rest with a 2h'er or a 1h on a mount.

He is talking more about melee/archery vs mage/melee then everything, and even then it is unbalanced, because the mage is more effective( specially with group combat) with spells/utilities.

He provides no other proof except shadowing 4-5 of the Best( or one of the best) players on EU, that usually get most of their kills from melee or mount, not archery, if they do use archery it is because the guys on a mount or in water or a 1-2 shot opener from range if the so called archer is not on a mount.

Again he is a retard he does not know we are trying to balance archery vs magic not melee/archery vs magic, god I hate people who cant comprehend.

Kimoshu
03-17-2010, 20:31
No Pure PVP game has ever thrived when the PVP is balanced around only a particular setting of combat. Only in large scale does archery/melee have a real function, and only then with exceptional equipment. This same criteria for viability transfers down to small scale, a setting where you don't have the same type of support to remotely justify the cost. Without this very particular gear setup, archery is invalidated by magic in every conceivable way. With the gear setup, it's merely fair game. Obviously something is wrong there. Not to mention archery's complete lack of unencumbered/blocked utility. It seems that your perspective is from someone who takes part in the majority large scale battles as well as having free and easy access to the top end equipment - because it's clear as day and common as water for the majority of players that magic vs archery for anything but mass scale is and has been completely unbalanced.

Very much agreed, archery isn't viable unless you use pretty good gear in smaller scale, magic is viable with far less gear risked. That's an issue I see here also, the risk vs reward is messed up between archers and mages for random and small scale PvP.

-Andrew

acetyx
03-17-2010, 21:00
THIS GAME SUCK... this patch comes take 3 months to develops.... great... and even after this patch hybrid characters will be boosted much more!

When the fucking mage is out of mana, he can now simply own you with bow much easier than before!!! Great. Gratz to all who have 100s of hours to grind their all skills...

CYA ALL good luck with this game. :lmao:

Keno
03-17-2010, 21:17
THIS GAME SUCK... this patch comes take 3 months to develops.... great... and even after this patch hybrid characters will be boosted much more!

When the fucking mage is out of mana, he can now simply own you with bow much easier than before!!! Great. Gratz to all who have 100s of hours to grind their all skills...

CYA ALL good luck with this game. :lmao:

I feel ya bro.

gloomis
03-17-2010, 21:23
I can hardly believe it took you this amount of time (since last patch) to program two additions/changes to two in-game mechanics.

Reorganise your resources to work more efficient because if it takes you over a month to create these two things then how long are you going to take for the next expansion? another 6 months? the players want frequent patches and communication on the turn Aventurine wants to take the game, NOT the whiners.

I'm disgusted to see the whiners that's by far the biggest group voicing their opinions on the forums are winning.

You obviously know nothing of software development, and ignorant statements like yours make me angry.

Kiad
03-17-2010, 21:24
Again he is a retard he does not know we are trying to balance archery vs magic not melee/archery vs magic, god I hate people who cant comprehend.

If you want to try and balance something you don't balance archery vs magic. You balance archery/melee vs magic/melee. Melee is a primary form of damage dealing and anyone who doesnt agree is just plain retarded. If archery allows you to gear more effectively for melee than magery, then archery must do less DPS than magery from range to acheive balance. If you can't get that...R-E-T-A-R-D.

And btw, #2 and 3 have under 330 base HP and neither of them mount whore. I know because they are in my guild (helba & mylina). I think #4 (also in SUN) has roughly 330 HP. While Helba and Mylina def use top gear, Rejalin (#4) does not. #5 was Orlot, I dont know anything about his stats or gear preference.

gorfhag
03-17-2010, 21:27
THIS GAME SUCK... this patch comes take 3 months to develops.... great... and even after this patch hybrid characters will be boosted much more!

When the fucking mage is out of mana, he can now simply own you with bow much easier than before!!! Great. Gratz to all who have 100s of hours to grind their all skills...

CYA ALL good luck with this game. :lmao:Hehe so true :). My subscription will end this month and I will never come back again. I did a big mistake whan I believed that 2nd expansion will change something. I should stay out of DF and not comming back that time.

Looking forward to see what happens with DF after this patch... I think that this is going the be the last fatal blow to DF.

Kikker
03-17-2010, 21:44
Ok I read a few pages.. but I'm not getting paid like AV to read through all that so I wont.

I would just like to suggest clearing all wars before the new system is implimented. A clean slate wouldn't hurt anyone if they really needed to be warred they will go through the new process. I'd say most of the current wars are to avoid the alignment hit and kill crafters and gatherers in starter towns and harrass noobs.
Also make warring expensive please at least 20k or so per war at minimum. Also maybe even implimenting a timer on wars would work so you pay 20k for a week of warred status. After the week is up both sides are back to nuetral and whichever side has scored the most kills and taken the most holdings gets a little system message about winning.

As to the archery... I've given up I'll just spend the rest of my darkfall life grinding away on magic because its the only way to compete. Specs aren't the real problem its 100 different things to build for magic vs 6 things to build for melee and archery thats the problem. As long as its soo out of balance they are forced to make magic more powerful because it costs you your soul to get it and as long as magic stays more powerful everyone will be forced to use it.

Izure
03-17-2010, 22:20
If you want to try and balance something you don't balance archery vs magic. You balance archery/melee vs magic/melee. Melee is a primary form of damage dealing and anyone who doesnt agree is just plain retarded. If archery allows you to gear more effectively for melee than magery, then archery must do less DPS than magery from range to acheive balance. If you can't get that...R-E-T-A-R-D.

And btw, #2 and 3 have under 330 base HP and neither of them mount whore. I know because they are in my guild (helba & mylina). I think #4 (also in SUN) has roughly 330 HP. While Helba and Mylina def use top gear, Rejalin (#4) does not. #5 was Orlot, I dont know anything about his stats or gear preference.

Lol, fighting scrubs maybe, what the fck is this so called"event", and how does it proove archery is balanced vs magic?

And no, this isnt about balancing or talking about melee.

Archery vs magic. Learn2read

Shrang
03-17-2010, 22:30
I only made it through 13 pages of this crap.
Personally, i think aquatic shot should just get dropped, but all this whinning about mages picking up aquatic AND jump is just redic... they dont gain much if anything from having 2 jumping damage types... they also LOSE mana for ever spec they grab so its not like there is not cost.

Spades911
03-17-2010, 22:34
One problem is the lack of knowledge in NA1. I mean, you have Spade who controls a guild in what is supposidely one of the best Merc alliances thinking he should gear in bone and scale set for optimal damage with bow. Once people realize what to gear in, it will be farmed more, crafted more, and be more prevalent.


Wow... I'm not saying YOU SHOULD GEAR IN BONE AND SCALE, I'm saying that unless you get Q4+ Feather Enchants and Full Plate that requires either extensive mob farming or a fuck ton of rare ore you won't be competitive. EU kids don't have the population of NA1 and when everyone left EU to NA all of their items went to you, there is a far better Mine to Person ratio on EU.

So OBVIOUSLY there is a unbalance, I use Full Plate and silverbranches, but I'm not talking about myself. I'm talking about how it's unfair that some asshole in shit bone gear with a black bolt can be amazingly effective when others who WANT to be competitive with melee/archery have to deck themselves out with the best stuff on the market.

If someone who doesn't have the resources that I have (mostly looted gear from other people, but whatever) then they are forced to wear bone and scale because there is no other way they can compete since anything heavier they are gimping their DPS dramatically.

Mind you, I run out and about in full plate with justicebringers for simple small scale PvP excursions, some of my other blingin guild mates run out in Infernal/FP.

kdchan
03-17-2010, 22:34
I only made it through 13 pages of this crap.
Personally, i think aquatic shot should just get dropped, but all this whinning about mages picking up aquatic AND jump is just redic... they dont gain much if anything from having 2 jumping damage types... they also LOSE mana for ever spec they grab so its not like there is not cost.

5% and 10% of mana loss is nothing, majority is hybrid for this reason. Specializations are useless. Imo.

Karac
03-17-2010, 23:18
So OBVIOUSLY there is a unbalance, I use Full Plate and silverbranches, but I'm not talking about myself. I'm talking about how it's unfair that some asshole in shit bone gear with a black bolt can be amazingly effective when others who WANT to be competitive with melee/archery have to deck themselves out with the best stuff on the market.
Every top "mages" (and not only them) on EU-1 use keened cobra's. A blackbolt will do shitty damage to someone properly geared.

chano
03-17-2010, 23:23
Mounted Archery could work if they implemented it right.

Pro Tip: Did you know Mounted Archery WAS IN DARKFALL the first month or so of the game?

Did it last a whole month? It was WAY op'd and was taken out quickly becasue of it.

That was however when you saw someone load a GM spell and everyone was amazed. It wold be interesting to see how it worked now.

There is a lot of things that didnt work then but would work ok now.

I would use the skilling up with noob weapons as an example. Fucked the balance then but now if they allowed you to skill up to say 50 skill it wouldnt be a big deal as anyone who uses melee pretty much already has at least one mastery, it would allow for new players to catch up a bit.

Dr Fuenke
03-18-2010, 00:29
Ya I'm gonna take lessons from a guy playing since Feb.

You are really an idiot. zerging obviosuly makes you retarded. I have played since feb 08, but this is my new account, is this impossible for you to comprehend? Learn some about the game mechanics or shut the fuck up.

Drevarius
03-18-2010, 00:47
Wow... I'm not saying YOU SHOULD GEAR IN BONE AND SCALE, I'm saying that unless you get Q4+ Feather Enchants and Full Plate that requires either extensive mob farming or a fuck ton of rare ore you won't be competitive. EU kids don't have the population of NA1 and when everyone left EU to NA all of their items went to you, there is a far better Mine to Person ratio on EU.

So OBVIOUSLY there is a unbalance, I use Full Plate and silverbranches, but I'm not talking about myself. I'm talking about how it's unfair that some asshole in shit bone gear with a black bolt can be amazingly effective when others who WANT to be competitive with melee/archery have to deck themselves out with the best stuff on the market.

If someone who doesn't have the resources that I have (mostly looted gear from other people, but whatever) then they are forced to wear bone and scale because there is no other way they can compete since anything heavier they are gimping their DPS dramatically.

Mind you, I run out and about in full plate with justicebringers for simple small scale PvP excursions, some of my other blingin guild mates run out in Infernal/FP.

What do you consider to be "amazingly effective"? Do guys geared like this regularly kill you, or would you say you win more often?

When do you win, is it based on skill and tactics? Is there a gear gap that helps keep you competitive?

I'm not saying this for certain, but be careful about attributing all your wins to overwhelming player skill in the face of adversity.

kilrain
03-18-2010, 03:11
You don't need heavy armors, you don't need expensive fucking gear to be a viable archer, you just need to train a Few (3) elemental buffs, stone skin, arrow shield, the spell chanting dexterity buff.. thats it. Wear scale/bone cast encumberance spell then those 3 and your rockin.

You guys want to be able to hit the specs for mage killer/hunter and suddenly be archers, well your wrong, those are for killing mages WHICH ARENT EVEN IN THE GAME YET, so far there are hybrids and THATS ALL.

Pick ANY other game and pick the archer from it, tell me that character doesn't cast any friggin spells.

In DF your given a giant palette of skills, abilities, and armors that you can use. you only need to train the ones that will benefit your fighting style.

Max your archery, get a 2 handed master, wear bone/scale, case 4 spells: encumberance (gm spell, can't remember name), stone skin, arrow shield, dex buff. Have an r50 bow/2 hander, 300 arrows, 70 mandrake and resin, ~20 of the others for buffs and your fucking set.

when they do implement mage specs and armors you will all understand what mage killer/destroyer type specs are for.

True archery/hybrid specs are mana shield, jump, aqua. When mages are finally in the game NOT 1 will want to chose something that is going to gimp their mana. period.

STFU and let AV do their thing, they have a plan and I can finally see where it's going. They're kicking ass.

Edit: I do however believe that splash damage needs reduction, either that or global 50's. thats all, nothing more.

Battle Smurf
03-18-2010, 08:17
So your telling me you cannot get Mage Killer and Jump Shot?

Icing on the cake.....

AND AQUATIC SHOT IS STILL A SPEC!!!!!!

WOW.............

Seriously this is fucking rediculous.

Battle Smurf
03-18-2010, 08:31
Kind of dissapointed by the archery specs. When someone said there were new archery specs i was quite happy, but turns out they are just letting you take jump and aquatic shot but not mage killer.

This could have been done in about 20 minutes and should have been in for months.

You understand its still wrong right? Aqautic shot should not be a spec everyone should have it and you should have the ability to be a jumpshot magekiller.

gheybaby
03-18-2010, 09:15
Archery underwater is dumb.

Personally I'd rather either a water-only bolt spell be added to Greater Magic and/or the requirement to have a specially enchanted bow in order to shoot underwater.

I agree though, that ultimately the most important thing is that people not have to spec in order to keep water from being a get away for free zone.

Aristos
03-18-2010, 09:48
You don't need heavy armors, you don't need expensive fucking gear to be a viable archer, you just need to train a Few (3) elemental buffs, stone skin, arrow shield, the spell chanting dexterity buff.. thats it. Wear scale/bone cast encumberance spell then those 3 and your rockin.


You must be either a terrible archer or yet another mage if you think bone/scale makes you 'rockin'. You do realize with a bone/scale mix mages actually do MORE DPS than you even if you hit with all of your arrows? You can only out dps them if you're using a keened r60-70. And it's not by much with a r60. Not to mention the spell chanting dexterity buff is a 'buff other' spell. After reading this it was painfully obvious you don't know what the hell you're talking about (probably fairly new to the game, or just inexperienced) so I didn't even bother reading the rest of your post.

Angry Dwarf
03-18-2010, 10:39
The Devs playing this game is using magic and don't want competition from archery i guess... :/

Come on man!

Make Aqua shot default..!

exodus2
03-18-2010, 12:09
You obviously know nothing of software development, and ignorant statements like yours make me angry.

you obviously have no fucking clue in regards to software development . The archery changes would have been easy.


The pseudo code for learning specs for archer currently looks something like this -

If Archery spec1 is in 1,2,3,4,5

remove skill when new added

else

add new skill to Archery spec1



They already have the code in place for melee

the pseudo code for that is

If Melee spec1 is in 1,2

remove skill when new added
else
add new skill to Melee spec1


If Melee spec2 is in 3,4,5,6
remove skill when new added
else
add new skill to Melee spec2


They can copy the melee spec code and change it for archery and create the relevant table entry, this isnt a huge change don’t defend them ALOT of people who play darkfall work in the IT industry pretending like this is some sort of huge change is dumb especially when they have the code basis already there.

This period of time that has been spent doing such a simple thing is not excusable especially when they have obviously put no thought what so ever into balance.

I really feel sorry for any company you work for because if you think that a change like that is hard then I would never ever ever want to work with someone like you. In fact you probably work for some incompetent government division.

Angry Dwarf
03-18-2010, 12:17
You don't need heavy armors, you don't need expensive fucking gear to be a viable archer, you just need to train a Few (3) elemental buffs, stone skin, arrow shield, the spell chanting dexterity buff.. thats it. Wear scale/bone cast encumberance spell then those 3 and your rockin.

You guys want to be able to hit the specs for mage killer/hunter and suddenly be archers, well your wrong, those are for killing mages WHICH ARENT EVEN IN THE GAME YET, so far there are hybrids and THATS ALL.

Pick ANY other game and pick the archer from it, tell me that character doesn't cast any friggin spells.

In DF your given a giant palette of skills, abilities, and armors that you can use. you only need to train the ones that will benefit your fighting style.

Max your archery, get a 2 handed master, wear bone/scale, case 4 spells: encumberance (gm spell, can't remember name), stone skin, arrow shield, dex buff. Have an r50 bow/2 hander, 300 arrows, 70 mandrake and resin, ~20 of the others for buffs and your fucking set.

when they do implement mage specs and armors you will all understand what mage killer/destroyer type specs are for.

True archery/hybrid specs are mana shield, jump, aqua. When mages are finally in the game NOT 1 will want to chose something that is going to gimp their mana. period.

STFU and let AV do their thing, they have a plan and I can finally see where it's going. They're kicking ass.

Edit: I do however believe that splash damage needs reduction, either that or global 50's. thats all, nothing more.



Sucker!

exodus2
03-18-2010, 12:18
You guys want to be able to hit the specs for mage killer/hunter and suddenly be archers, well your wrong, those are for killing mages WHICH ARENT EVEN IN THE GAME YET, so far there are hybrids and THATS ALL.


Your wrong there are Mages.

Pro tip- your a mage when the majority of your fighting goes through magic..... faggot not a hybrid because you whirlwind occasionally.


and a few individuals <3 those individuals

vildanius
03-18-2010, 12:29
Whats wrong with all you whiners, aqua shot should be spec it shouldnt be natural, if a newb is running from powerful mage and he jumps into the water to give himself the advantage then so be it...Alot of people go picking on guys in starting areas ive done it youve all done it but some are OTT and griefing is there life so when these guys go about there business and a newb jumps in water and they have the advantage and the griefer doesnt what does the griefer do?? surprise surprise they come on here and whine.

There nothing wrong with what they have done spec for 1 or dont spec you cant have everything your own way.

exodus2
03-18-2010, 12:33
Whats wrong with all you whiners, aqua shot should be spec it shouldnt be natural, if a newb is running from powerful mage and he jumps into the water to give himself the advantage then so be it...Alot of people go picking on guys in starting areas ive done it youve all done it but some are OTT and griefing is there life so when these guys go about there business and a newb jumps in water and they have the advantage and the griefer doesnt what does the griefer do?? surprise surprise they come on here and whine.

There nothing wrong with what they have done spec for 1 or dont spec you cant have everything your own way.

that powerful mage is going to have aqua shot retard maybe if you had said powerful archer or some crap.

Angry Dwarf
03-18-2010, 12:55
that powerful mage is going to have aqua shot retard maybe if you had said powerful archer or some crap.

qft!

ISVRaDa
03-18-2010, 14:17
We will see how it works and good news about war declarations.

Best regards o/

gloomis
03-18-2010, 14:57
you obviously have no fucking clue in regards to software development . The archery changes would have been easy.


The pseudo code for learning specs for archer currently looks something like this -

If Archery spec1 is in 1,2,3,4,5

remove skill when new added

else

add new skill to Archery spec1



They already have the code in place for melee

the pseudo code for that is

If Melee spec1 is in 1,2

remove skill when new added
else
add new skill to Melee spec1


If Melee spec2 is in 3,4,5,6
remove skill when new added
else
add new skill to Melee spec2


They can copy the melee spec code and change it for archery and create the relevant table entry, this isnt a huge change don’t defend them ALOT of people who play darkfall work in the IT industry pretending like this is some sort of huge change is dumb especially when they have the code basis already there.

This period of time that has been spent doing such a simple thing is not excusable especially when they have obviously put no thought what so ever into balance.

I really feel sorry for any company you work for because if you think that a change like that is hard then I would never ever ever want to work with someone like you. In fact you probably work for some incompetent government division.


hehe.. I am a 10 year scenior software developer. Now go away

exodus2
03-18-2010, 15:15
hehe.. I am a 10 year scenior software developer. Now go away

Just because you have been doing something for 10 years doesnt mean your any good at it.

The fact that you didnt even try to argue with me is because you know im right, defending AV regarding such a simple change is dumb if you just up and admit you were foolish im sure people will think better of you.

Izure
03-18-2010, 15:15
you obviously have no fucking clue in regards to software development . The archery changes would have been easy.


The pseudo code for learning specs for archer currently looks something like this -

If Archery spec1 is in 1,2,3,4,5

remove skill when new added

else

add new skill to Archery spec1



They already have the code in place for melee

the pseudo code for that is

If Melee spec1 is in 1,2

remove skill when new added
else
add new skill to Melee spec1


If Melee spec2 is in 3,4,5,6
remove skill when new added
else
add new skill to Melee spec2


They can copy the melee spec code and change it for archery and create the relevant table entry, this isnt a huge change don’t defend them ALOT of people who play darkfall work in the IT industry pretending like this is some sort of huge change is dumb especially when they have the code basis already there.

This period of time that has been spent doing such a simple thing is not excusable especially when they have obviously put no thought what so ever into balance.

I really feel sorry for any company you work for because if you think that a change like that is hard then I would never ever ever want to work with someone like you. In fact you probably work for some incompetent government division.


This, it is not that much harder then what exodus posted, the amount of time it took AV to even try to fix this( and yes they did fail hard, archers just got more nerfed, and mages just got all the archers benefits, while the archer will get owned by magic or if he is mage killer will get owned by a archer(mage) with jump+aqua, by kiting or running to water.

My main gripe is the amount of time it took to patch this, now it will take another month to test and to prove these specs are worthless and then ANOTHER month to fix that.

Its stupid and Im done with it.

Izure
03-18-2010, 15:17
Whats wrong with all you whiners, aqua shot should be spec it shouldnt be natural, if a newb is running from powerful mage and he jumps into the water to give himself the advantage then so be it...Alot of people go picking on guys in starting areas ive done it youve all done it but some are OTT and griefing is there life so when these guys go about there business and a newb jumps in water and they have the advantage and the griefer doesnt what does the griefer do?? surprise surprise they come on here and whine.

There nothing wrong with what they have done spec for 1 or dont spec you cant have everything your own way.

This is pretty stupid, I will just say this, a mage will have every advantage now, when it comes to magic vs archery or him using a bow vs an archer, because the archer chose mage killer/hunter, so the mage has aqua/jump totally out classing him in archery in every way. Lets not forget the buffs the mage has and the archery ecumb the archer has.

Shits stupid and still if not more very unbalanced and the nail in the coffin forme.

gloomis
03-18-2010, 15:45
Just because you have been doing something for 10 years doesnt mean your any good at it.Code monkeys are not the brains behind the outfit so.... being the "senior" monkey isnt impressive.

The fact that you didnt even try to argue with me is because you know im right, defending AV regarding such a simple change is dumb if you just up and admit you were foolish im sure people will think better of you.

You have yet to bring any credablity to the table.

I am very good at what I do, and I am no code-monkey, I am a Project manager and Business analyst, with a programming background.

You are arguing that you know that you are right, but as I said you bring no credablity to the table.

Do you even know what unit/integration/system/regression/acceptance testing mean?

You obviously think that if you change a line of code, it does not interfere with anything else, code is not singularly executable. When you change one thing you fuck up another? And ontop of that you need to look at the non-functional impact, and in this case that would be the impact on other skills. You know, the polearm issue? 98% of the server used polearm because it just gave to much of an advantage? This can happen when you make any change.

Your suggestion:

remove skill when new added

else

add new skill to Archery spec1

really shows your naitivity.

The opening post you make only shows your childish gimmiegimmie mentality.

Fall
03-18-2010, 16:04
crap

To implement this feature/make the changes, they should need a week max. (And that's quite a lot) otherwise the code, tools and the whole structure of the application must be terrible. Maybe you should add 1 month of internal testing, to see if it's a little bit balanced and works but that's about it time-wise. If you need more than three months, to make this small change, then something's pretty much fucked up.

gloomis
03-18-2010, 16:15
To implement this feature/make the changes, they should need a week max. (And that's quite a lot) otherwise the code, tools and the whole structure of the application must be terrible. Maybe you should add 1 month of internal testing, to see if it's a little bit balanced and works but that's about it time-wise. If you need more than three months, to make this small change, then something's pretty much fucked up.

If you think so.

Also:
Today we’ll take you behind the scenes and talk about some of the things Darkfall developers are working on for the next patch.

It is obviously not the only thing that they are working on, it's probably what ONE programmer have been coding, and ONE of the things that the testers have been testing.

What is pissing me off is your naive formulations about how easy it should be, how pisspor the developers must be, that really shows that you havent got a clue about how it works, well do it yourself and see how "easy" it is.

exodus2
03-18-2010, 16:23
Do you even know what unit/integration/system/regression/acceptance testing mean?

Yes and acting like its a big thing doesn’t make it one moron a half competent developer would the code changed and out of unit and integration testing within a day.

It doesn’t take 4 months to do the testing for a small change unless you are working with the most retarded company in the entire world. I managed to do a business integration project in 6 months transferring a database of 1.5 million customer records. Not only that but the entire system had to be changed to accommodate the new business model and there was a whole data transformation process that had to be done to accommodate the data in the new system. Not only that I had to do my day to day job at the same time we had a team of 5 developers and UAT users from the business + a IT Project manager + Me and a standard Business Analyst.

You are obviously shit at your job and if it takes you and your company 4 months to do and test a small code change then i have no idea how you are still employed.

Non-functional impact......they obviously paid no attention to that because aqua shot shouldn’t even be a spec.

The fact you are trying to backup your retarded arguement with some bullshit about being a Senior developer/IT Project Manager/Business Analyst just is quite pathetic.

Oh and im a Business Systems Analyst if that will help you sleep at night.

exodus2
03-18-2010, 16:28
If you think so.

Also:
Today we’ll take you behind the scenes and talk about some of the things Darkfall developers are working on for the next patch.

It is obviously not the only thing that they are working on, it's probably what ONE programmer have been coding, and ONE of the things that the testers have been testing.

What is pissing me off is your naive formulations about how easy it should be, how pisspor the developers must be, that really shows that you havent got a clue about how it works, well do it yourself and see how "easy" it is.

im sure if AV realeased their code base your face would be raped so hard and so fast you wouldnt know what had happened :lmao:


It is people like you who piss me off alot in the IT world trying to make people think you are some kind of magician with magical powers and things take longer than they actually do because you want to sit around and play with your balls. Im sure you have whatever company you work for tricked into the belief that your doing a good job.tho so gratz for that.

chokke
03-18-2010, 16:48
If you think so.

Also:
Today we’ll take you behind the scenes and talk about some of the things Darkfall developers are working on for the next patch.

It is obviously not the only thing that they are working on, it's probably what ONE programmer have been coding, and ONE of the things that the testers have been testing.

What is pissing me off is your naive formulations about how easy it should be, how pisspor the developers must be, that really shows that you havent got a clue about how it works, well do it yourself and see how "easy" it is.

They probably need a few months to implement full chain armor. I am very good at coding, so I know this.

Kimoshu
03-18-2010, 16:53
im sure if AV realeased their code base your face would be raped so hard and so fast you wouldnt know what had happened :lmao:


It is people like you who piss me off alot in the IT world trying to make people think you are some kind of magician with magical powers and things take longer than they actually do because you want to sit around and play with your balls. Im sure you have whatever company you work for tricked into the belief that your doing a good job.tho so gratz for that.

Gloomis is getting at the point that this wasn't a programming challenge or difficult coding of some kind that caused this to take so long. They didn't think 4 months ago "Hey this is broken let's fix it" and take 4 months to do so. More than likely they've almost all been working on expansion and letting the latest patches take effect, carefully considering the balance of the game and seeing how the changes played out fully before they change anything. They probably decided to add these archery specs in in the last month and have been testing out the balance on their test servers. Balance takes time and if AV took even 10% of the sweeping change suggestions that the forums spits out every day the balance of this game would go back and forth so much you'd get motion sickness. Small steps towards balance is better than jumps forward and then jumps back, that is how you properly balance a game; It takes time and you simply need patience, AV is getting there and those who have any patience and look at the overall changes they are making can see the balanced direction they are going. This is a long-term game in the toddler stages now and if you didn't come prepared for that then perhaps you should consider joining a more mature/polished game or something with more instant gratification and coming back to DF when it has matured. Those of us that see the potential of DF and the direction AV is taking the game are content.

-Andrew

exodus2
03-18-2010, 17:34
Gloomis is getting at the point that this wasn't a programming challenge or difficult coding of some kind that caused this to take so long. They didn't think 4 months ago "Hey this is broken let's fix it" and take 4 months to do so. More than likely they've almost all been working on expansion and letting the latest patches take effect, carefully considering the balance of the game and seeing how the changes played out fully before they change anything. They probably decided to add these archery specs in in the last month and have been testing out the balance on their test servers. Balance takes time and if AV took even 10% of the sweeping change suggestions that the forums spits out every day the balance of this game would go back and forth so much you'd get motion sickness. Small steps towards balance is better than jumps forward and then jumps back, that is how you properly balance a game; It takes time and you simply need patience, AV is getting there and those who have any patience and look at the overall changes they are making can see the balanced direction they are going. This is a long-term game in the toddler stages now and if you didn't come prepared for that then perhaps you should consider joining a more mature/polished game or something with more instant gratification and coming back to DF when it has matured. Those of us that see the potential of DF and the direction AV is taking the game are content.

-Andrew

please use paragraghs.

Before Keno or Spades comes in they said not two archery specs was a mistake before so......

If AV continue along their route of big updates no communication they wont have a population to support the game and the company will collapse....

" and if you didn't come prepared for that then perhaps you should consider joining a more mature/polished game or something with more instant gratification and coming back to DF when it has matured. Those of us that see the potential of DF and the direction AV is taking the game are content."

If i didnt see the potential of DF or have fun i wouldnt be playing it would ? . Its not about being mature or polished its about being smart which AV are not. Small regular patches will not only please the community but also lessen the impact of changes. The majority of MMO's do this model for a reason. Lets say week 1 i patch i dunno a small buff to magic. But week 3 i balance out Archery . Sure people will moan about the small buff to magic for 2 weeks then they will have the archery to appease them for a while.

The fact is you have no clue how a sucessful business is run nor does AV relying on your diehard fans is going to send you to one place only.....bankruptcy

Izure
03-18-2010, 17:41
please use paragraghs.

Before Keno or Spades comes in they said not two archery specs was a mistake before so......

If AV continue along their route of big updates no communication they wont have a population to support the game and the company will collapse....

" and if you didn't come prepared for that then perhaps you should consider joining a more mature/polished game or something with more instant gratification and coming back to DF when it has matured. Those of us that see the potential of DF and the direction AV is taking the game are content."

If i didnt see the potential of DF or have fun i wouldnt be playing it would ? . Its not about being mature or polished its about being smart which AV are not. Small regular patches will not only please the community but also lessen the impact of changes. The majority of MMO's do this model for a reason. Lets say week 1 i patch i dunno a small buff to magic. But week 3 i balance out Archery . Sure people will moan about the small buff to magic for 2 weeks then they will have the archery to appease them for a while.

The fact is you have no clue how a sucessful business is run nor does AV relying on your diehard fans is going to send you to one place only.....bankruptcy

This is fact, it sounds like they are planning something else, or they are doing something very big, considering less people are playing, if they are indeed planning something very big, no doubt we will here every detail by the spotlight's to keep us interested, instead we get this BS patch, basically saying we only have 5 people working, the rest are still on christmas vacation.

DAA KAPUTTMACHA
03-18-2010, 18:16
Is there an ignore function in forumfall?

Corpsepoker
03-18-2010, 18:17
Is there an ignore function in forumfall?

Yes lol.

DAA KAPUTTMACHA
03-18-2010, 18:23
Yes lol.


This message is hidden because Izure is on your ignore list.

Epic, ty.

BluesFunk
03-18-2010, 18:35
Lame that it took them so long to address archery. Even more lame is the solution they offer. They really will end up destroying their own game.

gloomis
03-18-2010, 19:18
To many bullshit posts to quote, you have yet to back ANY of your points up with other than "I KNOW that this and that is true"

Well I am sorry that I argue against you, but the simple fact is that you want instant satisfaction, you most likely want them to release DF2010 now, and you will probably whine all over the summer, because you think they should be able to whip up all features and DirektX 11 in under 6 months.
Basically you will sqirm all sommer long, becase you don't grasp the fundamentals of development.

Good luck with your impatient needs.

Izure
03-18-2010, 19:20
To many bullshit posts to quote, you have yet to back ANY of your points up with other than "I KNOW that this and that is true"

Well I am sorry that I argue against you, but the simple fact is that you want instant satisfaction, you most likely want them to release DF2010 now, and you will probably whine all over the summer, because you think they should be able to whip up all features and DirektX 11 in under 6 months.
Basically you will sqirm all sommer long, becase you don't grasp the fundamentals of development.

Good luck with your impatient needs.

We are whining because it took 4 months to do this simple patch, when it should of been in 3 months ago.

They have done this with every patch/expansion, they fail to deliver anything exciting for the game.

Half of the additions if not more, are usually never used and worthless.( basically our sub fee going down the drain)

Not to mention their fixes balances are horrible solutions, I mean just plain awful, not thought out at all.

Dont even say post some ideas then, we have been posting ideas(lots and lots, they could of chose) and it gets ignored for the most part, sometimes they do listen, but it seems like they abandon us for that new mmorpg they are making.

Whos cares for Dx11?, this crow that plays this game will always be Gameplay>graphics.

Zonack
03-18-2010, 19:40
If you think so.

Also:
Today we’ll take you behind the scenes and talk about some of the things Darkfall developers are working on for the next patch.


Maybe they gonna add Aquatic Shot (Lava) and Aquatic Shot (Acid).

Nekota-san
03-18-2010, 20:08
Well I am sorry that I argue against you, but the simple fact is that you want instant satisfaction, you most likely want them to release DF2010 now, and you will probably whine all over the summer, because you think they should be able to whip up all features and DirektX 11 in under 6 months.


AV are famous for beeing slow at development :P other companys probably could!

karlek
03-18-2010, 20:48
AV takes out something people had no problem with (Archery Aquatic Shot) and implement it as a spec.

Lets face it. For archery to be competitive you need jump shot AND aquatic shot should not be an option since that is the ONLY ranged attack person can do in the water. Archery is complete shit at the moment any anyone who does not believe that can fight me while I jump kite you with nukes while you are grounded with a bow. Having jump shot/aqua shot as default not a spec would give archers more dimensions in which they could potentially dodge nukes. At the moment they are sitting ducks. Personally I always go for the archer knowing that they can't jump which makes them an easy target.

Izure
03-18-2010, 21:12
Is there an ignore function in forumfall?


AV takes out something people had no problem with (Archery Aquatic Shot) and implement it as a spec.

Lets face it. For archery to be competitive you need jump shot AND aquatic shot should not be an option since that is the ONLY ranged attack person can do in the water. Archery is complete shit at the moment any anyone who does not believe that can fight me while I jump kite you with nukes while you are grounded with a bow. Having jump shot/aqua shot as default not a spec would give archers more dimensions in which they could potentially dodge nukes. At the moment they are sitting ducks. Personally I always go for the archer knowing that they can't jump which makes them an easy target.

Lol they made Jump a skill.

$id Viciou$
03-18-2010, 21:30
Wow! Nice changes!! Great news!

I expected to see some people whining about this but this is kind of ridiculous!

Changes look great, and definitely a step in the right direction.

I am glad that I was not practicing jump shot only to find out later that I would have to chose between that and aquatic shot. I was hoping that mage killer + jump shot would be available but when I think about it, it is not necessary. Good players with jump shot will be able to dodge nukes much more efficiently, making the fights more fair, but I do think that the mages should always have the upper hand slightly due to the fact that they have to grind a LOT more, so I think that their not having to aim as much is fair.

Thanks AV! Keep it up :)

Kimoshu
03-18-2010, 21:36
We are whining because it took 4 months to do this simple patch, when it should of been in 3 months ago.

They have done this with every patch/expansion, they fail to deliver anything exciting for the game.

Half of the additions if not more, are usually never used and worthless.( basically our sub fee going down the drain)

Not to mention their fixes balances are horrible solutions, I mean just plain awful, not thought out at all.

Dont even say post some ideas then, we have been posting ideas(lots and lots, they could of chose) and it gets ignored for the most part, sometimes they do listen, but it seems like they abandon us for that new mmorpg they are making.

Whos cares for Dx11?, this crow that plays this game will always be Gameplay>graphics.

I do wish that the 2 archery specs came sooner, that I agree with but I think I like it the way they implemented it.

One change that may be good though is that taking jump shot for archery disables the jump-cast spec. This way you have to choose to be a jump casting mage or a jumpcasting archer, not both as that gives hybrids too much jump kiting. That and lowering sprint speed 10-15% while charging a spell or nocking back an arrow, lowering splash damage by 1/3 and improving the damage of bolt spells to be the best DPS for mages instead of r50 switching and I think we'll be much closer to a good balance.

I think AV will reach a good balance and content in the game within another 1-2 expansions, though hopefully it happens before the impatient give up ^_^.

-Andrew

Izure
03-18-2010, 21:40
I do wish that the 2 archery specs came sooner, that I agree with but I think I like it the way they implemented it.

One change that may be good though is that taking jump shot for archery disables the jump-cast spec. This way you have to choose to be a jump casting mage or a jumpcasting archer, not both as that gives hybrids too much jump kiting. That and lowering sprint speed 10-15% while charging a spell or nocking back an arrow, lowering splash damage by 1/3 and improving the damage of bolt spells to be the best DPS for mages instead of r50 switching and I think we'll be much closer to a good balance.

I think AV will reach a good balance and content in the game within another 1-2 expansions, though hopefully it happens before the impatient give up ^_^.

-Andrew

Ya I might resubbed if it shows promises, I am just saying with their track history, they will add in an expansion that saids it fixes a lot of the game breaking issues, but it brings more problems and takes another year just to fix that expansion.

KCC989
03-18-2010, 22:55
Ya I might resubbed if it shows promises, I am just saying with their track history, they will add in an expansion that saids it fixes a lot of the game breaking issues, but it brings more problems and takes another year just to fix that expansion.

Yeah I feel similar. Except that I have a 6 month sub, so I will be here for a while. Hopefully this brings some flair to the game. I wish they would add useful and fun depth to the game.

Ragnarok Delrhe
03-19-2010, 00:45
nocking back an arrow, lowering splash damage by 1/3 and improving the damage of bolt spells to be the best DPS for mages instead of r50 switching and I think we'll be much closer to a good balance.



bolts are already the best dps in the game has long has you land them only thing needed is to put a GC on r50 (not a big one, like 2 sec) and it would be perfectly balanced

Aristos
03-19-2010, 07:44
bolts are already the best dps in the game has long has you land them only thing needed is to put a GC on r50 (not a big one, like 2 sec) and it would be perfectly balanced

Actually archery is better DPS. Did a test the other day with a good bow.

illicit
03-19-2010, 08:11
He's an 0'10er bro, don't worry.

I'm an 03 and I think some of your ideas are ok, alot of the are meh, some of them are shit, and some basically just completely change the game and make me wonder why you are even playing this.

NOW WHAT?

Veeshan_
03-19-2010, 09:30
i would like to suggest to hve allying people work the same way as the war dec, with the friendly then going ally it may reduce the effectiveness of zergs who just ally up for one seige then deally right after, due to having red names instead of everyone being green.

thuggery
03-19-2010, 11:56
Can you add a charge for allying people? But with a small change. Over time (maybe weeks) that charge is refunded to the clans involved.

Just thinking of something to discourage the temporary nutcups for seiges. Needs to be proportionate to the clans size.

Think of it as an exchange of gifts on the creation of a new freindship which over the weeks provides a return.

Flap Jack
03-19-2010, 12:54
Cool I guess now I can combine mage killer to my aqua shot :P
The war dec delay is kind of stupid though, I was honestly hoping this post was going to be something about cutting the global messages Guess I was wrong.

I like most of your ideas keno but, aqua shot is still cool with me... Before it was sort of a sacrifice to get it but with this patch its become even more accessable than ever.

Kimoshu
03-19-2010, 15:35
Cool I guess now I can combine mage killer to my aqua shot :P
The war dec delay is kind of stupid though, I was honestly hoping this post was going to be something about cutting the global messages Guess I was wrong.

I like most of your ideas keno but, aqua shot is still cool with me... Before it was sort of a sacrifice to get it but with this patch its become even more accessable than ever.

Agreed aqua shot is fine as a spec to me also, the issue I see is that it does not have enough of a downside; 5% mana is nothing to a mage. The benefit and disadvantage are completely out of sync for this spec but the spec itself isn't bad, IMO.

-Andrew

Ymgarl
03-19-2010, 17:42
Agreed aqua shot is fine as a spec to me also, the issue I see is that it does not have enough of a downside; 5% mana is nothing to a mage. The benefit and disadvantage are completely out of sync for this spec but the spec itself isn't bad, IMO.

-Andrew

I agree, it should be a 5% mana use PER shot.

Demonous5
03-19-2010, 18:53
Fuckin fail av. way to put jump shot and mage killer together, as well as forcing people to have to spec into aquatic shit. Epic fail.

aquatic shot should be taken out of the game, not realistic at all, its not like you're firing a harpoon

Demonous5
03-19-2010, 18:59
bye bye GPS

Kimoshu
03-19-2010, 19:08
aquatic shot should be taken out of the game, not realistic at all, its not like you're firing a harpoon
Realism is silly in a fantasy world such as Darkfall. How about we add "ice" arrows instead, magic bolts that travel through water, that's more realistic right? ;).




I agree, it should be a 5% mana use PER shot.
I kinda liked the idea brought up of a mana cost to fire each arrow under water. If it is percentage based then it means mages would still be affected in a major way from it. 5% seems a bit much though that's 20 shots underwater, maybe 25 with regen. 2% seems fine enough being as you are using up stamina and mana in the water and that would give you ~50 shots without regen for larger engagements with a full mana bar. Make a mana cost per shot and remove the % drop and I think that would be a better disadvantage.

+1 for a good idea!

-Andrew

gorfhag
03-19-2010, 19:25
I do wish that the 2 archery specs came sooner, that I agree with but I think I like it the way they implemented it.

One change that may be good though is that taking jump shot for archery disables the jump-cast spec. This way you have to choose to be a jump casting mage or a jumpcasting archer, not both as that gives hybrids too much jump kiting. That and lowering sprint speed 10-15% while charging a spell or nocking back an arrow, lowering splash damage by 1/3 and improving the damage of bolt spells to be the best DPS for mages instead of r50 switching and I think we'll be much closer to a good balance.

I think AV will reach a good balance and content in the game within another 1-2 expansions, though hopefully it happens before the impatient give up ^_^.

-AndrewGood suggestion, but it is too late for AV. I was defending AV for quite a long time. They was pissing on me for 4 months or even longer. After 4 months they will come up with this crap. WTF is this. Are they serious? Now I'm the one who is pissing on them, and I believe that I'm not the only one.

The best move for AV would be to leave magic OP as there are no archers in the game already and most of us will never return (like me). They better do whatever their mage comunity wants coz whan they will left this game, there will no one left on the servers.

Group of amateurs, really.

Mortimer
03-19-2010, 21:11
AV please do the following.

REMOVE AQUATIC SHOT AS A SPEC. I don't know what dev came up with that brilliant idea, but, its dumb. Period. It's dumb.

Fuck the groups AV. Just allow people to pick 2.

Mage Killer
Mage Hunter
Mana Shield
Jump Shot
(Replace Aquatic shot with one of the million other types of shots that people have suggested)

Also, hire me. I'll finish my last year in college later, lets just save this game.

That'd be op. Period. Yours, not mine .:ninja:



The best move for AV would be to leave magic OP as there are no archers in the game already and most of us will never return (like me). They better do whatever their mage comunity wants coz whan they will left this game, there will no one left on the servers.

Group of amateurs, really.

Play the game for once. How long ago did you quit, 2 expansions?

thedrumchannell
03-19-2010, 21:21
aquatic shot should be taken out of the game, not realistic at all, its not like you're firing a harpoon

You can shoot arrows using a bow in real life. ;)

Spades911
03-19-2010, 22:31
I'd be content with not being able to shoot in water at all honestly. I think it's quite dumb anyways. It only helps the mages ironic enough, the archers get nothing out of it. Just give aqua shot to everyone plz.

Having cannons do AOE damage into the water, removing aqua shot all together, and reduce the amount of time you can stay submerged will be fine changes to me would be great for ship combat.

People should be "fuck i'm in the water", not "hell ya im spamm swimming to the ship with manned cannons that can't do anything to me or the people on the ship shooting down into me can't do anything either".

Ships should be intimidating to swimmers, swimmers shouldn't intimidating ships..

Keno
03-19-2010, 23:06
People should be "fuck i'm in the water", not "hell ya im spamm swimming to the ship with manned cannons that can't do anything to me or the people on the ship shooting down into me can't do anything either".

Ships should be intimidating to swimmers, swimmers shouldn't intimidating ships..

Exactly. Take notes here AV.

Keno
03-19-2010, 23:06
That'd be op. Period. Yours, not mine .:ninja:




Play the game for once. How long ago did you quit, 2 expansions?

No it wouldn't.

Spyridon_Rahl
03-19-2010, 23:47
How about the devs present us with their ideas and let the community decide what new features and changes go in and HOW they are implemented, instead of having them just blindly put shit in that never works correctly and is worthless.

Because players make decisions based on what THEY WANT... they do not make decisions based on game design.

Look at the history of MMO's, and you will find that when companies start bending and doing ANYTHING the players want, it leads to the downfall of the games.

It's good to take advice on what players want - as long as those decisions fit in with the intended game design.

thedrumchannell
03-19-2010, 23:56
Because players make decisions based on what THEY WANT... they do not make decisions based on game design.

Look at the history of MMO's, and you will find that when companies start bending and doing ANYTHING the players want, it leads to the downfall of the games.

It's good to take advice on what players want - as long as those decisions fit in with the intended game design.

This is why Darkfall is the best available mmo on the market. The developers are making the game and not the players. :)

Lexxer
03-20-2010, 00:01
I have been saying this for months - people in the water should fucking drown and die. Fuck Aqua shot. you should run out of stamina quickly and then drown.

This would make boats/rafts alot more commonplace for travel.

Athessu
03-20-2010, 00:12
How bout they just make it so you can shoot through water at people swimming?
Then suddenly you don't need aquashot and both people underwater to fight unless you're randomly miles out to sea.

Kimoshu
03-20-2010, 00:15
Because players make decisions based on what THEY WANT... they do not make decisions based on game design.

Look at the history of MMO's, and you will find that when companies start bending and doing ANYTHING the players want, it leads to the downfall of the games.

It's good to take advice on what players want - as long as those decisions fit in with the intended game design.

Exactly, they have a vision for their game and they should stick to it as close as possible; It is however in their best interest to listen to suggestions that an overwhelming amount of players are asking for as the players know the ins and outs of the game and the way it plays in reality and not just on paper. So long as player requests do not compromise their vision and design for the game then they should be looked at and considered. I am pretty sure that AV does do this because they eventually implement/fix almost all the complaints that the majority of the player base is asking for. More communication would do good to silence trolls/impatient players though and that's why the spotlight was seen as a godsend when it came out. So long as the spotlight upkeeps 1 decent spotlight a week it should satisfy the community's thirst for info I imagine.

-Andrew

Lexxer
03-20-2010, 00:24
unless you're randomly miles out to sea.

Should not happen. Swimming across oceans is dumb. Once you run out of stamina in the water you should be dead. D E A D.

Spyridon_Rahl
03-20-2010, 02:38
Exactly, they have a vision for their game and they should stick to it as close as possible; It is however in their best interest to listen to suggestions that an overwhelming amount of players are asking for as the players know the ins and outs of the game and the way it plays in reality and not just on paper. So long as player requests do not compromise their vision and design for the game then they should be looked at and considered. I am pretty sure that AV does do this because they eventually implement/fix almost all the complaints that the majority of the player base is asking for. More communication would do good to silence trolls/impatient players though and that's why the spotlight was seen as a godsend when it came out. So long as the spotlight upkeeps 1 decent spotlight a week it should satisfy the community's thirst for info I imagine.

-Andrew

Nothing could silence the trolls lol. This thread is a good source of proof of that =p

Nearly everyone has different things they would love to see in the game. Until everyone sees what they specifically want, they will complain. Considering you cant please everyone, that's why they put careful consideration in to any changes they put in to the game, and they will do changes step by step.

Which makes many of the complaints about the upcoming Archery changes in this thread a good example too. Many people want something different, but in the end, compared to how it is now, the changes ARE one step of an improvement. Instead of being appreciative for that, people complain that it's not enough or they didnt get what they want.

I hope they stick by their guns and continue to do things carefully and step by step. Sweeping changes are bad news.

Kimoshu
03-20-2010, 03:28
I hope they stick by their guns and continue to do things carefully and step by step. Sweeping changes are bad news.

My exact thoughts as well.

-Andrew

Dragoon
03-20-2010, 05:00
We are whining because it took 4 months to do this simple patch, when it should of been in 3 months ago.

They have done this with every patch/expansion, they fail to deliver anything exciting for the game.

Half of the additions if not more, are usually never used and worthless.( basically our sub fee going down the drain)

Not to mention their fixes balances are horrible solutions, I mean just plain awful, not thought out at all.

Dont even say post some ideas then, we have been posting ideas(lots and lots, they could of chose) and it gets ignored for the most part, sometimes they do listen, but it seems like they abandon us for that new mmorpg they are making.

Funny how he got banned for telling the truth. :rolleyes:

Dragoon
03-20-2010, 05:12
Nearly everyone has different things they would love to see in the game. Until everyone sees what they specifically want, they will complain.

You honestly think that these minor changes mentioned were worth waiting four months for? Give me a break. Aventurine takes a year to add the same amount of content that other companies take 3 months to implement. The archery change should have been a hotfix months ago especially since the community liaisons originally stated that it was a bug and not intended.

It's obvious that they're not putting any money into this game. No advertising whatsoever, hardly any GM's or in-game support, and minimal cash into development.

Valaska
03-20-2010, 05:31
You honestly think that these minor changes mentioned were worth waiting four months for? Give me a break. Aventurine takes a year to add the same amount of content that other companies take 3 months to implement. The archery change should have been a hotfix months ago especially since the community liaisons originally stated that it was a bug and not intended.

It's obvious that they're not putting any money into this game. No advertising whatsoever, hardly any GM's or in-game support, and minimal cash into development.

Whenever I do a GM report I usually get a reply within 15 minutes, prolly the best GM service I've seen even if sometimes they randomly teleport people to their deaths lol.

Keno
03-20-2010, 05:54
Whenever I do a GM report I usually get a reply within 15 minutes, prolly the best GM service I've seen
Cause usually games have thousands of players in game at the same time, so it takes time to get a response when the game is populated?

Kasmos
03-20-2010, 15:52
Cause usually games have thousands of players in game at the same time, so it takes time to get a response when the game is populated?

This made me lol.....

If we don't hear something soon about some drastic changes to this game coming (again, it's been almost 4 fucking months...) I will for the first time in now over a year (even during a two month span that I couldn't play) cancel my subscription.

There, I said it, and it made me want to throw up a little.....

Mary T. Teach
03-20-2010, 16:53
yea, aquashot needs to be default
and change the encumbrence for archery, currently only mages can use a bow without a penalty, which is very retarded

Spyridon_Rahl
03-20-2010, 17:50
You honestly think that these minor changes mentioned were worth waiting four months for? Give me a break. Aventurine takes a year to add the same amount of content that other companies take 3 months to implement. The archery change should have been a hotfix months ago especially since the community liaisons originally stated that it was a bug and not intended.

It's obvious that they're not putting any money into this game. No advertising whatsoever, hardly any GM's or in-game support, and minimal cash into development.

I'm not "waiting for changes", if you do something like that you are only setting yourself up for a dissapointment. So it's no wonder your upset. Do that on any game and you will be unhappy. If I was waiting for other games to be more skill based and less gear based for years, I would be pretty damn pissed by now. But use a bit of logic and you will realize that waiting for changes you want is foolish because it is not "your game" made "for you specifically".

I take changes as they come. Complaining about changes that people asked for is a GOOD thing. Why try to spin it?

In response to them taking a year to implement content that takes other companies 3 months to implement, you should look in to that one again - other games have patches on their test servers for nearly 3 months after months of dev time. Just look at the length of the notes of each of the 2 major patches, they are quite a bit longer than the patch notes of most other games in the last year. The amount of stuff they put in patches is actually one of the better things about AV, so your claims show some pretty obvious trolling.

Furthermore, game mechanics are not a "hotfix", a hotfix is a fix of an existing bug.

As I mentioned earlier, this is a good example of people "wanting the game to be what they want", rather than making decisions based on game design. It's more than obvious that it is what this person is doing, considering they have been "waiting four months for these changes".

Calling archery spec changes a hotfix shows the lack of knowledge about game design. The final paragraph shows ignorance of game development in general. So... why should the devs take this advice?

Solvito
03-20-2010, 21:38
this is retarded...
3 months to put the second specialization in..

in spotlights before the xpac, they told us an archer could pick all specializations....:bang::bang::bang:

4 months for this...keep it up AV u r on the right track....






to the abbys.

thedrumchannell
03-20-2010, 22:31
yea, aquashot needs to be default
and change the encumbrence for archery, currently only mages can use a bow without a penalty, which is very retarded

I think this is why AV is introducing new armor sets, to give more options to different play styles. :)

-morph-
03-21-2010, 02:53
Aquatic shot is NOT a spec, its a necessity. Funny how you talk about the DF launch, when the game was in its GLORY. When fighting took skill, Archery and Melee.

Combat at launch was fucking terrible man. Rosy tinted eyes of nostalgia there.

I remember a lot of people bunny hop archering, which I enjoyed but was OP.

Some bunny jumping surging mana missle or eldrich sphere mages running about naked with starter staffs.

I also remember a lot of people running about in circles all equiped with the starter polearm (and polearms only in 90% of characters).

Those who grinded up a mellee or archery mastery fast through exploiting how bugged pve was raping everyone in sight.

Not to mention rampant fucking cheating, logging, throttling of connections and the fact that risk and reward was non-existent due to the fact people with slightly supèrior stats and tactics could more or less fight naked with a starter wep.

adzig8
03-21-2010, 03:18
Combat at launch was fucking terrible man. Rosy tinted eyes of nostalgia there.

I remember a lot of people bunny hop archering, which I enjoyed but was OP.

Some bunny jumping surging mana missle or eldrich sphere mages running about naked with starter staffs.

I also remember a lot of people running about in circles all equiped with the starter polearm (and polearms only in 90% of characters).

Those who grinded up a mellee or archery mastery fast through exploiting how bugged pve was raping everyone in sight.

Not to mention rampant fucking cheating, logging, throttling of connections and the fact that risk and reward was non-existent due to the fact people with slightly supèrior stats and tactics could more or less fight naked with a starter wep.

in other words we've come a LONG way

-morph-
03-21-2010, 03:19
in other words we've come a LONG way

yup.

Keno
03-21-2010, 03:23
Combat at launch was fucking terrible man. Rosy tinted eyes of nostalgia there.

I remember a lot of people bunny hop archering, which I enjoyed but was OP.

Some bunny jumping surging mana missle or eldrich sphere mages running about naked with starter staffs.

I also remember a lot of people running about in circles all equiped with the starter polearm (and polearms only in 90% of characters).

Those who grinded up a mellee or archery mastery fast through exploiting how bugged pve was raping everyone in sight.

Not to mention rampant fucking cheating, logging, throttling of connections and the fact that risk and reward was non-existent due to the fact people with slightly supèrior stats and tactics could more or less fight naked with a starter wep.

Late beta and early EU had the best combat. Period.

KCC989
03-21-2010, 07:33
Late beta and early EU had the best combat. Period.

QFT. If magic was greatly reduced (global cooldowns on all offensive spells, give them all the same timer, reduce splash damage, make it so only bolts, buffs, and utilities were common) we would all enjoy the game more.

Magic is gaaaaay.

Valaska
03-21-2010, 08:52
QFT. If magic was greatly reduced (global cooldowns on all offensive spells, give them all the same timer, reduce splash damage, make it so only bolts, buffs, and utilities were common) we would all enjoy the game more.

Magic is gaaaaay.

I agree but.. I am starting magic now =/. I caved, I solo a lot, and I barely can PVP with my injury atm (getting motion sick because of it) and Solo PVP requires magic haha.

Large scale its balanced decently though.