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Mr. White
03-01-2010, 15:13
There has been much speculation within the Darkfall community on what really happens to exploiters and cheaters. We checked with Darkfall’s Customer Support department and this is what we found out:

There was a post after a mass ban (http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=182316&highlight=cheaters) last April where it was explained how the system works and how violations are cross referenced and double-checked. Since then there have been many further improvements to the detection systems. There are programmers dedicated to the creation of tools and detection technologies and there are also dedicated support personnel for the investigation of offending accounts. Recently there have been major improvements to detection technologies and to GM tools to prepare for the Darkfall trial.

We may not hear about it all the time, but the Darkfall Support team has been diligently and silently enforcing Darkfall’s anti-cheat and exploit policies. To date, over 1300 accounts have been permanently banned. The community has often asked for cheater’s names to be publicized. Aventurine’s management does not like the idea of discussing bans or naming names. They believe that it’s enough to permanently ban the cheater at the customer level. Aside from the principle of the matter, there’s also a practical issue. Most cheaters create multiple characters on their accounts, sometimes even hundreds. This is apparently done in an effort to confuse the GMs but that’s not the way the system works.

Aventurine has a no tolerance policy towards cheating. Bans happen at the customer, account, and billing level. The Darkfall trial which went live last Wednesday gave some players an inexpensive way of creating accounts to cheat with. These players have unfortunately also had their main accounts permanently banned, along with their credit information, and in some cases our billing department had to contact Paypal, or their credit institutions and ISPs on their activities.

There’s another misconception about cheating: Some cheaters believe that if they are not conspicuous, they will avoid a ban. That’s not how the system works. If you use third party programs to cheat with, you will be detected and you'll get a permanent ban.

Aventurine takes cheating and exploiting very seriously and there's a lot of work being done at the development and the support level to continuously improve measures and to enforce policies to keep cheaters out of the game.

Keno
03-01-2010, 15:16
Hope your right.

xerian
03-01-2010, 15:20
When people get an account banned from the game, why are they allowed back into the game if they buy a new account?

djsin
03-01-2010, 15:21
this is kinda fun considering there are long term cheaters still ingame after thousands of reports

anyway i hope you are right and they get a ban after all

SethDrone-KoC
03-01-2010, 15:22
Drop the banhammer. What what names will be mia now...

Temko Firewing
03-01-2010, 15:24
this is kinda fun considering there are long term cheaters still ingame after thousands of reports


this.

DeadlyHit
03-01-2010, 15:26
Hope so.

DAA KAPUTTMACHA
03-01-2010, 15:27
Give it to 'em!

EKS
03-01-2010, 15:37
this is kinda fun considering there are long term cheaters still ingame after thousands of reports

anyway i hope you are right and they get a ban after all

because we all know if someone is reported as a cheater, it must be so.

DAA KAPUTTMACHA
03-01-2010, 15:39
because we all know if someone is reported as a cheater, it must be so.

yap. we all know that a butthurt ragepost after losing a fight is much more reliable than any programmed cheat detection. :ninja:

Kelsen
03-01-2010, 15:41
GMs need to be more consistent in their enforcement of "what is" and "what isn't" allowed (exploiting).

Valkyrior
03-01-2010, 15:42
Keep up with the good job then... i was always curious if you had someone from AV "buy" the cheats from the cheaters websites and try to do some reverse engineering

[LoD] EE
03-01-2010, 15:44
Most cases of people being called cheaters is just the person on the losing end sucking horribly.

Up until Saturday, I had only ran across 2 confirmed cheaters in Darkfall since Open Beta. One guy who used sticky back who was killed ( turned to force his back to a guildmate who killed him ) and another person who uses a speed hack to get away.

Since the 7 day trials, I have run into 2 cheaters.

Saturday was a Teleport hacker / stick back.

Sunday night was someone who teleported away with our ship.

AV needs to get this stuff under control.

Preston
03-01-2010, 15:51
Good job and good to hear, keep up communication on this because there are a lot of people not playing the game who think it wasn't taken seriously at release.

moocat
03-01-2010, 15:56
Its funny how you suddenly put a system into place that bans afk macroers automatically when people have been doing it for over a year now.

How do you expect people to keep up with the vets?
How do you expect people to want to keep up with the mundane skill system this game has? (~100 000 casts to get 75 GM mana efficiency for example - on players. Divide by 6 to get mob casts.)
How do you expect the playerbase will handle this when 99% of the game's population has afk macroed in their Darkfall lifetime? (Yes, EVERYONE I know has macroed, even if its just swimming. The 1% is people that say they don't because of principle, but no one really knows if they do it or not)

The worst thing is you don't even notify your customers that you have put such a system in place, and then they get banned when they have just been doing what they have been doing without problems for over a year!

You really think this will fix the problem? Maybe if you put it in at release and enforced it, but after a year? What a joke.

Drago Palmas
03-01-2010, 15:57
Thanks for an update on this!! Was much needed and appreciated.


They believe that it’s enough to permanently ban the cheater at the customer level. Aside from the principle of the matter, there’s also a practical issue. Most cheaters create multiple characters on their accounts, sometimes even hundreds.


It would be enough if you would be able to do so, sadly we have proven reports of formerly banned players back into the game.
How should we report or proof these cases?


What about cheating without third party programs, Exploiting in the terrain etc. What will you do about that?

w0rm
03-01-2010, 15:57
EE;4098514']
AV needs to get this stuff under control.

No, the problem is how american parents raise their kids.

bobii
03-01-2010, 16:01
No, the problem is how american parents raise their kids.

Yes, this is the problem.

evoke
03-01-2010, 16:03
I still don't think they can detect radar hacking.

hitandmiss
03-01-2010, 16:09
Why do we ask for Names to be posted???

Cause the same Hackers keep coming back, either on friends chars or they buy the game again!

Naming no names but we all know 1 guy whos had 5 accounts now that have been banned, Where is he now? Back in the game on a new account....

We want names so we can say /gm_report XXX is an alt of XXX plz look into that.

These people get away for months on end playin on there new account, and stealling even 1 ship/warhulk/few crafters can land 100k's worth of gold and really ruin a guilds impression of the game. Its the players who they brag to about being "L33t" and we wana get there new account banned as soon as possible.

Shadowcast
03-01-2010, 16:13
For those who think the policies haven't been in effect, there was a lengthy post by Tasos last May stating what is accepted. They even placed a link to it in the FAQ section. It was posted as a FAQ in macroing/afk swimming.

Holio
03-01-2010, 16:14
Keep up with the good job then... i was always curious if you had someone from AV "buy" the cheats from the cheaters websites and try to do some reverse engineering

AV has without a doubt bought the main cheating program from a "certain" website. Its actually in their best interest to buy it. With that they could possibly reverse engineer like you said, or if they were smart, they would let their gms use it because its probly better than anything they could ever come up with as far as gm tools. sad. :(

Zalasahr
03-01-2010, 16:19
Cool to hear this, Aventurine!!

would be nice...if you posting alle the Character Names who got banned :ninja:

Captain Kirk
03-01-2010, 16:32
Awesome, Cheaters in a Free for all loot pvp game is just not good since people dont only die but they have to work to get gear again!

Havent seen a clear case of cheating in a long time but its the one's that use the more subtle cheats that are hard to find and get rid of!

Keep up the good work!

Narcowski
03-01-2010, 16:34
When people get an account banned from the game, why are they allowed back into the game if they buy a new account?

No. As explained, not only do you get banned at the account level, your billing information (and more!) gets banned as well ;)

Virindii
03-01-2010, 16:35
just bann all of them, noone will miss them. good job AV!

catmando
03-01-2010, 16:36
Its funny how you suddenly put a system into place that bans afk macroers automatically when people have been doing it for over a year now.

How do you expect people to keep up with the vets?
How do you expect people to want to keep up with the mundane skill system this game has? (~100 000 casts to get 75 GM mana efficiency for example - on players. Divide by 6 to get mob casts.)
How do you expect the playerbase will handle this when 99% of the game's population has afk macroed in their Darkfall lifetime? (Yes, EVERYONE I know has macroed, even if its just swimming. The 1% is people that say they don't because of principle, but no one really knows if they do it or not)

The worst thing is you don't even notify your customers that you have put such a system in place, and then they get banned when they have just been doing what they have been doing without problems for over a year!

You really think this will fix the problem? Maybe if you put it in at release and enforced it, but after a year? What a joke.

pretty much everyone in my old alliance used to macro 23/7

good times. :ohno:

Kasmos
03-01-2010, 16:39
Although I'm very glad to hear that over 1300 accounts have been permanently banned, it's still a little discerning to see people STILL in game that have been reported countless times...

stony23
03-01-2010, 16:44
lol exactly what i told everyone...stop whining about trials theyre a good thing because alot of cheaters got their main account banned now.

Paranoia21
03-01-2010, 16:44
You also get banned if you happen to be lagging while playing and some stupid gm fraps's it

Teucrus
03-01-2010, 16:46
You also get banned if you happen to be lagging while playing and some stupid gm fraps's it

Most certainly not.

sc0r0wnz
03-01-2010, 16:47
EE;4098514']Most cases of people being called cheaters is just the person on the losing end sucking horribly.

Up until Saturday, I had only ran across 2 confirmed cheaters in Darkfall since Open Beta. One guy who used sticky back who was killed ( turned to force his back to a guildmate who killed him ) and another person who uses a speed hack to get away.

Since the 7 day trials, I have run into 2 cheaters.

Saturday was a Teleport hacker / stick back.

Sunday night was someone who teleported away with our ship.

AV needs to get this stuff under control.

I got 2 hackers at my ass, one of them got banned. Just when you farm mobs go there again and ask a gm to look since we saw he ninjaed a dm before we killed the devil and when we killed the devil then the gm started talking and said we would not have problems anymore :)

KoKane
03-01-2010, 16:47
This OP may very well be true. The hacker hotspot - Nurenfau devil spawn, was absolutely PLAGUED the last few days with hackers. Mounts and loot being robbed, players getting stickybacked, hackers immitating names of us etc.


The last 24 hours have been absolutely hacker free. Might be too early to tell but we will see.

stony23
03-01-2010, 16:48
You also get banned if you happen to be lagging while playing and some stupid gm fraps's it

another guy who has no clue about cheating detection mechanics.

smoke2000
03-01-2010, 16:50
yeah , gm's do seem to ban ppl if you report em, they're just really quiet about it and I guess it also takes them some time to watch them. They don't seem to respond to the person that paged, you just see the offenders disappearing.

As for being banned when lagging, there were those that made lagging to escape death epic. Like DMT revinoff, but I don't think he still plays.

He'll always be known as the guy that floats mid-air on his mount and then disappears.

Paranoia21
03-01-2010, 16:51
another guy who has no clue about cheating detection mechanics.

this was a while ago and yes i do

Dasmas
03-01-2010, 16:51
The whole Section 8 clan should be banned for supporting hackers. Guilt by association.

ZtyX
03-01-2010, 16:52
Stop deleting replies just because I criticize AV & no macroing.

Don't think you can come in here and delete posts that show ppl are against these stupidly strict rules to paint your rosey picture of support. This board is not here to please or support policies. We're not here to kiss your feet every time you post something in the spotlight.

There's a lot of people who think it's lame we aren't allowed to AFK macro anymore. Deleting criticism wont change that.
We're still here and we still think your policies are shit. So we don't care about them.. You can shove them up your ass.

This game is about freedom, so people should be able to police the game themselves for AFK macroers. To PK regs and raid cities during the night. To annoy ppl AFK swimming by killing them and robbing them of their vitality gains. It worked fine before u changed it...

smoke2000
03-01-2010, 16:55
Stop deleting replies just because I criticize AV & no macroing.

Don't think you can come in here and delete posts that show ppl are against these stupidly strict rules to paint your rosey picture of support. This board is not here to please or support policies. We're not here to kiss your feet every time you post something in the spotlight.

There's a lot of people who think it's lame we aren't allowed to AFK macro anymore. Deleting criticism wont change that.
We're still here and we still think your policies are shit. So we don't care about them.. You can shove them up your ass.

This game is about freedom, so people should be able to police the game themselves for AFK macroers. It worked fine before u changed it...

lol, hey celiah :)

Yoda
03-01-2010, 16:55
Most certainly not.

i've seen it happen. the gm thought the player was lagging his connection on purpose to avoid hits.

stony23
03-01-2010, 16:58
this was a while ago and yes i do

no you dont, noone ever got banned because he lagged stop halluzinating.

Brother Justin
03-01-2010, 17:04
Stop deleting replies just because I criticize AV & no macroing.



Darkfall Spotlight

Here you can find comments from the development staff and points of interest from in and around the community.

This forum is strictly moderated.

Thats what it says.

Sarphus
03-01-2010, 17:06
Good!

Sock it to em.

Ragnarok Delrhe
03-01-2010, 17:08
there's like 10% of those accounts belonging to arkillion lol why dont you fucking ip ban him or something, would be about damn time

Teucrus
03-01-2010, 17:11
Stay on topic, watch your language and don't assume you always know the whole story please. Apart from that you can be as critical as you want.

xerian
03-01-2010, 17:14
No. As explained, not only do you get banned at the account level, your billing information (and more!) gets banned as well ;)

Aparently that isnt enough since arkillion is back ingame for what... 3rd or 4th time?

Neilk
03-01-2010, 17:14
no you dont, noone ever got banned because he lagged stop halluzinating.

Yes they did and it is very easily manipulated. The only proof they had up until now was video proof and I for one think this is still the case for numerous hacks. Who got there main banned from ang with that teleport hacker following you around since the free trials anyway? :rolleyes:

Ragnarok Delrhe
03-01-2010, 17:22
Aparently that isnt enough since arkillion is back ingame for what... 3rd or 4th time?

it's the eight time now I think.

Deerhunter
03-01-2010, 17:22
Why this is FULL of shit:

"I was banned 4 days ago for third party usage. My alt account was not banned and using the same credit card."

stony23
03-01-2010, 17:23
Yes they did and it is very easily manipulated. The only proof they had up until now was video proof and I for one think this is still the case for numerous hacks. Who got there main banned from ang with that teleport hacker following you around since the free trials anyway? :rolleyes:

sure your friends got banned for speedhacks and you say they just lagged haha how pathetic :)

noone of ANG got banned btw. at least not that i know of anyone. we made lots of reports tho lately.

im bathing myself in the absolute hilarious denials of caught cheaters. please continue!

Melkorus
03-01-2010, 17:31
GMs need to be more consistent in their enforcement of "what is" and "what isn't" allowed (exploiting).

this

Grim Creaper
03-01-2010, 17:33
There has been much speculation within the Darkfall community on what really happens to exploiters and cheaters. We checked with Darkfall’s Customer Support department and this is what we found out:

There was a post after a mass ban (http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=182316&highlight=cheaters) last April where it was explained how the system works and how violations are cross referenced and double-checked. Since then there have been many further improvements to the detection systems. There are programmers dedicated to the creation of tools and detection technologies and there are also dedicated support personnel for the investigation of offending accounts. Recently there have been major improvements to detection technologies and to GM tools to prepare for the Darkfall trial.

We may not hear about it all the time, but the Darkfall Support team has been diligently and silently enforcing Darkfall’s anti-cheat and exploit policies. To date, over 1300 accounts have been permanently banned. The community has often asked for cheater’s names to be publicized. Aventurine’s management does not like the idea of discussing bans or naming names. They believe that it’s enough to permanently ban the cheater at the customer level. Aside from the principle of the matter, there’s also a practical issue. Most cheaters create multiple characters on their accounts, sometimes even hundreds. This is apparently done in an effort to confuse the GMs but that’s not the way the system works.

Aventurine has a no tolerance policy towards cheating. Bans happen at the customer, account, and billing level. The Darkfall trial which went live last Wednesday gave some players an inexpensive way of creating accounts to cheat with. These players have unfortunately also had their main accounts permanently banned, along with their credit information, and in some cases our billing department had to contact Paypal, or their credit institutions and ISPs on their activities.

There’s another misconception about cheating: Some cheaters believe that if they are not conspicuous, they will avoid a ban. That’s not how the system works. If you use third party programs to cheat with, you will be detected and you'll get a permanent ban.

Aventurine takes cheating and exploiting very seriously and there's a lot of work being done at the development and the support level to continuously improve measures and to enforce policies to keep cheaters out of the game.


This sounds good on paper, but it still needs some work. Last week, we had a teleport hacker inside our city. Thursday, we had about 10 people report him, multiple times each. Friday, he appeared again, same name same EXACT character. Again, we had about 10 people reporting this character. After about another 2 hours, they finally banned the account.

STEELRAIN
03-01-2010, 17:34
Its funny how you suddenly put a system into place that bans afk macroers automatically when people have been doing it for over a year now.

How do you expect people to keep up with the vets?
How do you expect people to want to keep up with the mundane skill system this game has? (~100 000 casts to get 75 GM mana efficiency for example - on players. Divide by 6 to get mob casts.)
How do you expect the playerbase will handle this when 99% of the game's population has afk macroed in their Darkfall lifetime? (Yes, EVERYONE I know has macroed, even if its just swimming. The 1% is people that say they don't because of principle, but no one really knows if they do it or not)

The worst thing is you don't even notify your customers that you have put such a system in place, and then they get banned when they have just been doing what they have been doing without problems for over a year!

You really think this will fix the problem? Maybe if you put it in at release and enforced it, but after a year? What a joke.

Dont sit there and say 99%, please oh please dont say this , this statement is just not so. You might think so but it isnt so. My entire clan has never macroed anything except harvesting until they did auto harvest and we even stopped that. I personally know tons of people who never macroed and are legit players. Now, I also know the gms are starting to raid clan cities which is fantastic since this is where all the macroing takes place and yes they are banning people now which is also great, keep up the good work av, rid us of the afk macroers. Also eliminate auto run and the afk swimmers, runners and sprinters will have to resort to 3rd party programs which will eventually lead to them being banned. That will probably stop about 85% of the afk leveling in game.

Just keep raiding clan cities over night to find literally hundreds of afk macroers leveling mainly magic and weapon skills. I know of 7 players in one city biting the dust 3 permantly but I wont mention any names cause I was glad they got banned. And yes after being killed repeatedly by said players , now I know not to always get mad cause they actually cheated to get where they were and they are eventually taken care of. LOL to those that got banned.

orionthe2nd
03-01-2010, 17:36
this dont you know what AFk, 3rd party progams, cheat, hack, tele mean ?

stony23
03-01-2010, 17:41
This sounds good on paper, but it still needs some work. Last week, we had a teleport hacker inside our city. Thursday, we had about 10 people report him, multiple times each. Friday, he appeared again, same name same EXACT character. Again, we had about 10 people reporting this character. After about another 2 hours, they finally banned the account.

how would you know when his account gets banned? a GM wont ever tell you if he did ban him.

L-C
03-01-2010, 17:48
I know several people still cheating to this day. I've known these guys for a long time, and they have admitted to me that they are using certain hacks. I figure when they get banned, I can believe the whole "we are detecting hacks" nonsense.

The real reason they won't name and shame the hackers is because they don't want you to see how few actually get caught. They also don't want people to realize that the majority of the bans are easily caught macros, or blatant hackers that got reported.

I killed 1300 players last night. How many of you can disprove/prove what I say is true? Same goes for AV. They can throw numbers out there all day, but they have never backed them up with any proof.

Neilk
03-01-2010, 17:48
sure your friends got banned for speedhacks and you say they just lagged haha how pathetic :)

noone of ANG got banned btw. at least not that i know of anyone. we made lots of reports tho lately.

im bathing myself in the absolute hilarious denials of caught cheaters. please continue!

He got unbanned actually, when we killed ang yesterday near bloodscar by the time we got too loot it was all gone and a teleport hacker spotted for the second fight in the last week against ang this has happened. We also had a ang dwarf hiding inside the walls at the devil spawn twice trying to steal our loot.

stony23
03-01-2010, 17:55
I know several people still cheating to this day. I've known these guys for a long time, and they have admitted to me that they are using certain hacks. I figure when they get banned, I can believe the whole "we are detecting hacks" nonsense.

The real reason they won't name and shame the hackers is because they don't want you to see how few actually get caught. They also don't want people to realize that the majority of the bans are easily caught macros, or blatant hackers that got reported.

I killed 1300 players last night. How many of you can disprove/prove what I say is true? Same goes for AV. They can throw numbers out there all day, but they have never backed them up with any proof.

you should watch less tv, maybe your imagination wont run so wild then.


He got unbanned actually, when we killed ang yesterday near bloodscar by the time we got too loot it was all gone and a teleport hacker spotted for the second fight in the last week against ang this has happened. We also had a ang dwarf hiding inside the walls at the devil spawn twice trying to steal our loot.

well i guess that is your teleport hacker then.

and if u see an ang dwarf hiding inside walls just report him, idiot.

Neilk
03-01-2010, 17:56
you should watch less tv, maybe your imagination wont run so wild then.



well i guess that is your teleport hacker then.

and if u see an ang dwarf hiding inside walls just report him, idiot.

Obviously not our hacker :rolleyes: We did report but he just came back later that day and nothing every happens.

stony23
03-01-2010, 18:00
Obviously not our hacker :rolleyes: We did report but he just came back later that day and nothing every happens.

since its against the forum rules, im not accusing specific ppl of specific hacking performances. you go on with it if it makes you happy...just keep coming up with new excuses why ANG owns you.

Withoutshame
03-01-2010, 18:09
I have 10+ surging damage spells, every single usable spell in the game I have at atleast 75, I have almost 350hp, and I have multiple weapon mastery's.

How the hell does a new player starting this game have a chance in hell against me, if he doesn't macro? I am all for going hardcore banning on afk macro'ing, but -only- on a brand new server.

And 1300 total people banned? This game's been out 1 year, half that time it has been on 2 servers. So 100 accounts banned a month, spread out between 2 servers? Sounds like alot until you figure in all the chinese gold farmers who just remake their accounts when they get banned.

Oh and what's with the new fad of hackers looting the grave's of mobs people kill? I've stopped farming in a few spots because hackers just come and loot my graves every time, and the GM's take 15 minutes to get there and never catch them.

Walking Target
03-01-2010, 18:09
I know several people still cheating to this day. I've known these guys for a long time, and they have admitted to me that they are using certain hacks. I figure when they get banned, I can believe the whole "we are detecting hacks" nonsense.

Wow...just wow. Thanks for not reporting people ruining the game. :rolleyes:

stony23
03-01-2010, 18:11
Wow...just wow. Thanks for not reporting people ruining the game. :rolleyes:

yah he should just get permabanned for that stupid statement.

Neilk
03-01-2010, 18:13
since its against the forum rules, im not accusing specific ppl of specific hacking performances. you go on with it if it makes you happy...just keep coming up with new excuses why ANG owns you.

You died 6v8 and then you come back and kill us 10+v5 don't thing ang has ever won an even number fight against us ;)

Kelsen
03-01-2010, 18:21
I'm gonna say this again because GMs need to be educated.

GMs need to be more consistent in their enforcement of "what is" and "what isn't" allowed (exploiting)!!

I'm stating this because recently I had friends get a temp ban without warning for training spells on a mob. However please note the following:

-The mob was not bugged
-The mob had ranged/ magic spells
-The mob could still hit the player and was indeed hitting them
-Player was using terrain as an advantage to duck and hide. (a highly praised and advertised feature by AV of the game world)

Now I realize this is not the thread nor the way to dispute a temp ban. Nor am I disputing this one instance. What I am however saying is there have been many post within the forums by the community of GM inconsistencies. For instance on GM telling a player something is alright and another telling them it is against the rules, or even silly situations where a GM apologizes after stating some false game feature. It just seems the GMs need to be educated more are bannable situations/scenarios.

stony23
03-01-2010, 18:25
I'm gonna say this again because GMs need to be educated.

GMs need to be more consistent in their enforcement of "what is" and "what isn't" allowed (exploiting)!!

I'm stating this because recently I had friends get a temp ban without warning for training spells on a mob. However please note the following:

-The mob was not bugged
-The mob had ranged/ magic spells
-The mob could still hit the player and was indeed hitting them
-Player was using terrain as an advantage to duck and hide. (a highly praised and advertised feature by AV of the game world)

Now I realize this is not the thread nor the way to dispute a temp ban. Nor am I disputing this one instance. What I am however saying is there have been many post within the forums by the community of GM inconsistencies. For instance on GM telling a player something is alright and another telling them it is against the rules, or even silly situations where a GM apologizes after stating some false game feature. It just seems the GMs need to be educated more are bannable situations/scenarios.

you dont get that like everyone thats caught and banned will always say he did something minor or something allowed, and doesnt understand why he got banned, in reality he did something completely different what he deserverd the ban for.

peertje
03-01-2010, 18:27
hehe, people's main accounts banned for cheating with their alts. thats great to hear :)

Ayn Sheron
03-01-2010, 18:32
Good job av!

Kelsen
03-01-2010, 18:37
you dont get that like everyone thats caught and banned will always say he did something minor or something allowed, and doesnt understand why he got banned, in reality he did something completely different what he deserverd the ban for.

This situation was a temp ban, not a ban so this wasn't a hacking situation. And there were witnesses. It has been stated before that perching a mob that has no way of attacking you (melee only mobs) is cause for a temp ban. I understand this but perching a mob that can still hit you with ranged and in the situation I'm speaking of was indeed still hitting the player. Now is this also cause for a temp ban.

Stop acting like none of these temp bans are overruled because they GM was wrong. It has happened and will still happen if they don't do their job, and that job is knowing what is bannable.

MAD-DUKE
03-01-2010, 18:39
Write it into the unbreakable TOS that if caught Cheating you will be put on a cheaters list and the reason for cheating also provide proof of the cheat. I think it is fair if your going to remove someone from the game you have 100% proof provided to both the accused and community so there are no doubts in anyone's mind. Time/Date stamps as well.

stony23
03-01-2010, 18:44
This situation was a temp ban, not a ban so this wasn't a hacking situation. And there were witnesses. It has been stated before that perching a mob that has no way of attacking you (melee only mobs) is cause for a temp ban. I understand this but perching a mob that can still hit you with ranged and in the situation I'm speaking of was indeed still hitting the player. Now is this also cause for a temp ban.

Stop acting like none of these temp bans are overruled because they GM was wrong. It has happened and will still happen if they don't do their job, and that job is knowing what is bannable.

well you say he got temp banned for something that isnt considered exploiting.

how can anyone know if youre not making up some story?

obviously everyone rather believes the official darkfall representatives and their decisions on banning, than some guy who posts in a forum that he got banned for no reason at all and the GMs are stupid.

AETORAS-GR
03-01-2010, 18:44
another guy who has no clue about cheating detection mechanics.

+1000

Shadowcast
03-01-2010, 18:45
http://support.us.darkfallonline.com/index.php?_m=knowledgebase&_a=viewarticle&kbarticleid=124

For those who think things have been legal till recently. Take note of date in the forums. It predates the NA-1 launch, therefore the rules were in effect for a new server, prior to increased skill gains. While I will admit a large number is guilty, this basically destroys the argument of "why's it been allowed till now?"

stony23
03-01-2010, 18:46
Write it into the unbreakable TOS that if caught Cheating you will be put on a cheaters list and the reason for cheating also provide proof of the cheat. I think it is fair if your going to remove someone from the game you have 100% proof provided to both the accused and community so there are no doubts in anyone's mind. Time/Date stamps as well.

that would be utterly stupid. dont cheat or exploit and you will never get any problems with any GMs. simple as that.

you wont get banned, not even temporary banned for doing something "mistakenly" or "unknowingly"

Banok
03-01-2010, 18:47
naming people would be useful because there are people still playing darkfall who are known hackers. everyone knows they have had multiple accounts banned. like arkillion even posts openly here that hes on his 5th account or whatever.

these hackers aren't even discrete AT ALL. they name their next account the same name. like most of arkillions all called the same and I hear many other simular cases like "Awesomefusion QWE" on playing eu1 right now I heard his prior account names were awesome fusion 1 and awesome fusion 2 etc. and got banned, and hes still obviously the same guy? idk I hear about so many current players and what all thier previous banned chars where called. so find it very hard to believe this post.

stony23
03-01-2010, 18:53
naming people would be useful because there are people still playing darkfall who are known hackers. everyone knows they have had multiple accounts banned. like arkillion even posts openly here that hes on his 5th account or whatever.

these hackers aren't even discrete AT ALL. they name their next account the same name. like most of arkillions all called the same and I hear many other simular cases like "Awesomefusion QWE" on playing eu1 right now I heard his prior account names were awesome fusion 1 and awesome fusion 2 etc. and got banned, and hes still obviously the same guy? idk I hear about so many current players and what all thier previous banned chars where called. so find it very hard to believe this post.

no it would just be stupid. you get a list of 1 million names, and every player will have a similar name on this list, like a Kaok Stlnkbane and whatever. theres also various other reasons why cheaters or exploiters will never be called out.

what for even? if youre banned youre banned. sure he can create a new account with a friends credit card on his internet line. but he has to start from scratch, and as soon as he cheats again his account and ip will get banned again. soon his friends with credit cards and internet access where he can play will run out. also he already wasted hundreds of dollars on DF accounts and monthly payment...for nothing.

w0rm
03-01-2010, 18:57
blabla

It's their game and they do it whatever they want with it.

Quixstar
03-01-2010, 19:02
Great job.

Hey you guys can macro just DONT USE 3RD PARTY PROGRAMS.

If you can't figure out how to use the system as it is - then get ready for uber ban stick.

Macro yes - 3rd party - NO.

Thanks !

hitandmiss
03-01-2010, 19:03
also he already wasted hundreds of dollars on DF accounts and monthly payment...for nothing.

If u had a Ship of the line stolen I think you would see it differently....

Kelsen
03-01-2010, 19:06
well you say he got temp banned for something that isnt considered exploiting.

how can anyone know if youre not making up some story?

obviously everyone rather believes the official darkfall representatives and their decisions on banning, than some guy who posts in a forum that he got banned for no reason at all and the GMs are stupid.

You are obviously far to dense to understand my point. And I never said the GMs are stupid. What I am saying is some of the rules are far to vague and left open to a GM's interpretation on an individual basis. So much in fact one GM would tell you it is ok and another would ban you for it. There should be no gray areas in the enforcement policies. And no obviously not everyone believes a GMs word for law. As per all the post on the forums with screenshots to boot, situations of GMs contradicting each other or just saying some nonsense. You don't believe me then you go search for them. We are talking about payed for game time here it should be white and black no in between.

stony23
03-01-2010, 19:08
If u had a Ship of the line stolen I think you would see it differently....

someone ninjadespawned your SOTL and its again the bad hackers? sure. better look after your property.

johnnyc3po
03-01-2010, 19:09
Until there is a client side application that monitors memory values, running processes, etc, cheating will always be rampant.

stony23
03-01-2010, 19:13
You are obviously far to dense to understand my point. And I never said the GMs are stupid. What I am saying is some of the rules are far to vague and left open to a GM's interpretation on an individual basis. So much in fact one GM would tell you it is ok and another would ban you for it. There should be no gray areas in the enforcement policies. And no obviously not everyone believes a GMs word for law. As per all the post on the forums with screenshots to boot, situations of GMs contradicting each other or just saying some nonsense. You don't believe me then you go search for them. We are talking about payed for game time here it should be white and black no in between.

this is simply not the case and the GMs are obviously, like in all other games and to the contrary what many players might believe, very well aware of all possible exploits and there is no place for interpretation as you picture it.

there might be changes in the official policy tho, but if thats the case, there will be an official statement and/or announcement regarding this.

argueing about something like this is futile anyway.

MrDDT
03-01-2010, 19:18
this is kinda fun considering there are long term cheaters still ingame after thousands of reports

anyway i hope you are right and they get a ban after all


This.

VooDoo Hex
03-01-2010, 19:20
You are obviously far to dense to understand my point. And I never said the GMs are stupid. What I am saying is some of the rules are far to vague and left open to a GM's interpretation on an individual basis. So much in fact one GM would tell you it is ok and another would ban you for it. There should be no gray areas in the enforcement policies. And no obviously not everyone believes a GMs word for law. As per all the post on the forums with screenshots to boot, situations of GMs contradicting each other or just saying some nonsense. You don't believe me then you go search for them. We are talking about payed for game time here it should be white and black no in between.

Saying that your friend got a temp ban for using terrain to fight an unbugged mob that was still hitting them is absolutely ridiculous. Im sorry.

giantAppleCore
03-01-2010, 19:21
this is simply not the case and the GMs are obviously, like in all other games and to the contrary what many players might believe, very well aware of all possible exploits and there is no place for interpretation as you picture it.

there might be changes in the official policy tho, but if thats the case, there will be an official statement and/or announcement regarding this.

argueing about something like this is futile anyway.

I'm getting more and more convinced you're a troll. There is tons of proof on the forum showing that GM's disagree on a lot of things, and what is and isn't an exploit. For someone on the forums as much as you, you should know this.

Kelsen
03-01-2010, 19:23
this is simply not the case and the GMs are obviously, like in all other games and to the contrary what many players might believe, very well aware of all possible exploits and there is no place for interpretation as you picture it.

there might be changes in the official policy tho, but if thats the case, there will be an official statement and/or announcement regarding this.

argueing about something like this is futile anyway.

Well we are able to dispute the claims via support/petition and some of these temp bans get overruled. So you go on playing thinking that in every situation the GM is 100% correct.

stony23
03-01-2010, 19:29
I'm getting more and more convinced you're a troll. There is tons of proof on the forum showing that GM's disagree on a lot of things, and what is and isn't an exploit. For someone on the forums as much as you, you should know this.

post your imaginary "tons of proof" for me...if you have an issue with some write a support ticket.

i talked to some GMs and i very well know what is allowed and what not and they all were 100% consistent and all my friends told me exactly the same outcome of their conversations with GMs.

so you come up with your conspiracy theory that GMs have different views of what should be punished with a ban and what not....and i should come up with evidence now that youre wrong or im a troll?

dude, get a grip on reality

Theoep
03-01-2010, 19:40
Darkfall anti cheating detection is flat out terrible.

They should use the same system WoW does, you do not see cheaters run rampant there. Until Darkfall has cheating 98% under control GM's should be spending 100% of there time seeking out hackers and banning not banning people that AFK macro.

hitandmiss
03-01-2010, 19:43
someone ninjadespawned your SOTL and its again the bad hackers? sure. better look after your property.

Ive never lost anything to hackers, and I was in a clan that lost a SOTL but point was if U lost something very valuable to a hacker u wouldnt think "They cant do that much damage"

U guys farm devils, lets say someone ninja'd ur loot for 100kish... would u be so "Meh they will run out of credit cards and accounts eventualy"

Jedicake
03-01-2010, 19:44
Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Aventurine, you kick ass, and keep doing a great job

Neilk
03-01-2010, 19:49
we got 1 million + loot ninja'd xD

screw loose
03-01-2010, 20:00
Hope your right.

you're

stony23
03-01-2010, 20:07
Ive never lost anything to hackers, and I was in a clan that lost a SOTL but point was if U lost something very valuable to a hacker u wouldnt think "They cant do that much damage"

U guys farm devils, lets say someone ninja'd ur loot for 100kish... would u be so "Meh they will run out of credit cards and accounts eventualy"

yup. its just a game dude. happens to me regularily...hell i even die sometimes shortly before the devil is dead to mobs and miss loot because of total and complete failure.

Soulipcistic
03-01-2010, 20:08
There’s another misconception about cheating: Some cheaters believe that if they are not conspicuous, they will avoid a ban. That’s not how the system works. If you use third party programs to cheat with, you will be detected and you'll get a permanent ban.


This is flatly false, and every time you say this, it reassures the people who have not been caught that your automatic detection does not work on them. I don't know if you guys are just saying this to scare people, or if you really think that there are not players slipping past detection. If you really think that inconspicuous players still get detected anyway, you don't know what the fuck is going on. I know of people that I am 100% sure have been cheating for months (firsthand witness and/or being in vent when they admitted it) and those people have never been detected.

I will say that cheating is much, much less of a problem than it was a few months ago, but there are still OBVIOUSLY cheats that are not caught in your automatic detection. If you don't believe me just have one of your GMs hang out at the center dungeon all day and watch people teleport around and do stupid shit like loot corpses from under the world.

stony23
03-01-2010, 20:12
This is flatly false, and every time you say this, it reassures the people who have not been caught that your automatic detection does not work on them. I don't know if you guys are just saying this to scare people, or if you really think that there are not players slipping past detection. If you really think that inconspicuous players still get detected anyway, you don't know what the fuck is going on. I know of people that I am 100% sure have been cheating for months (firsthand witness and/or being in vent when they admitted it) and those people have never been detected.

I will say that cheating is much, much less of a problem than it was a few months ago, but there are still OBVIOUSLY cheats that are not caught in your automatic detection. If you don't believe me just have one of your GMs hang out at the center dungeon all day and watch people teleport around and do stupid shit like loot corpses from under the world.

dont believe everything some kids tell you on vent.

Soulipcistic
03-01-2010, 20:14
dont believe everything some kids tell you on vent.

pretty hard not to believe someone is using radar or purple vision when they are calling out numbers of people outside of view or behind walls, thanks for the false assumption though

Soulipcistic
03-01-2010, 20:17
dont believe everything some kids tell you on vent.

PS its not always "some kids," at least three of the people I'm talking about are high ranking members of high level clans.

riffordy
03-01-2010, 20:19
DO IT UP TONY! get those bastards

Torc
03-01-2010, 20:24
100% support afk macro'ing. Let the player base enforce it AV. If someone wants to risk their regs while afk, all the better for the person that comes and kill him.

JetBoom
03-01-2010, 20:36
There has been much speculation within the Darkfall community on what really happens to exploiters and cheaters.Nothing. You have to actively try to get banned in this game.


There are programmers dedicated to the creation of tools and detection technologies and there are also dedicated support personnel for the investigation of offending accounts. Recently there have been major improvements to detection technologies and to GM tools to prepare for the Darkfall trial.There are no detection technologies since people are still cheating with year-old cheats.

nizzie
03-01-2010, 20:40
There are no detection technologies since people are still cheating with year-old cheats.

Read the cheater forum, lots of people got banned in the last few weeks.

Facebreaker
03-01-2010, 20:56
If being conspicuous doesn't matter when hacking and AV can detect them at any time, then why are there still hackers in game?

Facebreaker
03-01-2010, 20:58
100% support afk macro'ing. Let the player base enforce it AV. If someone wants to risk their regs while afk, all the better for the person that comes and kill him.

So you're going to give people in guilds (which have a city) a huge advantage to people who aren't as safe being unguilded?

Furyos
03-01-2010, 21:04
there's a lot of people who think it's lame we aren't allowed to afk macro anymore. Deleting criticism wont change that.
We're still here and we still think your policies are shit. So we don't care about them.. You can shove them up your ass.

quoted for truth

giantAppleCore
03-01-2010, 21:04
So you're going to give people in guilds (which have a city) a huge advantage to people who aren't as safe being unguilded?

I think you overestimate the safety of most player cities. When macroing was rampant almost every player city was hit every night. I wouldnt be surprised if those that found their own secret spot didnt survive more than people who macroed inside city walls.

Deerhunter
03-01-2010, 21:05
Read the cheater forum, lots of people got banned in the last few weeks.

Yeah read them CLOSELY and see it is the dumb ones who have messed up and been spotted. There are still those in those same forums that have been cheating since day 1 of EU and NEVER caught....

Lumanil
03-01-2010, 21:19
Its funny how you suddenly put a system into place that bans afk macroers automatically when people have been doing it for over a year now.

How do you expect people to keep up with the vets?
How do you expect people to want to keep up with the mundane skill system this game has? (~100 000 casts to get 75 GM mana efficiency for example - on players. Divide by 6 to get mob casts.)
How do you expect the playerbase will handle this when 99% of the game's population has afk macroed in their Darkfall lifetime? (Yes, EVERYONE I know has macroed, even if its just swimming. The 1% is people that say they don't because of principle, but no one really knows if they do it or not)

The worst thing is you don't even notify your customers that you have put such a system in place, and then they get banned when they have just been doing what they have been doing without problems for over a year!

You really think this will fix the problem? Maybe if you put it in at release and enforced it, but after a year? What a joke.

How do you expect people to keep up with vet s in ANY MMO ???
Vets are VETS because they are playing longer than you and therefore have to get an advantage.

Also, who did tell you, that they put an system in place, which AUTOMATICALLY ban/kick people, who are afk-macroing ??
I can't find the sentence in his post.

lanigav
03-01-2010, 21:23
http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=237148

Facebreaker
03-01-2010, 21:27
I think you overestimate the safety of most player cities. When macroing was rampant almost every player city was hit every night. I wouldnt be surprised if those that found their own secret spot didnt survive more than people who macroed inside city walls.

Yea you do have a point. Still, I'm against afk macro'ing either way! :cool:

TheVillageIdiot
03-01-2010, 21:29
Clearly people are trying to test the limits of the trial system. The devs appear to be flagging the hackers and then tracing the hackers back to thier main accounts then banning all of them.

This is far better than banning an expendable account outright.

Nux Vomica
03-01-2010, 21:44
Hope your right.

you're

Huddscudd
03-01-2010, 21:52
100% support afk macro'ing. Let the player base enforce it AV. If someone wants to risk their regs while afk, all the better for the person that comes and kill him.

As long as the person is not in a wall on under the ground. If person wants to risk their regs/gold, then who cares at this point in the game. If a new server was started, then i would be all about a AFK macro ban. Its simply too late to enforce AFK macroing.

Abremalist
03-01-2010, 21:56
Clearly people are trying to test the limits of the trial system. The devs appear to be flagging the hackers and then tracing the hackers back to thier main accounts then banning all of them.

This is far better than banning an expendable account outright.

If the devs can do this, I can't understand what the cheaters are doing.

Either they must either just run the 'hacker' account on their own normal internet connection, on their own computer. You'd need another computer, virtual or not, and at least proxy it. Using an anonymacy service like trilightzone and you'd be safe. Clever people have fixed-state virtual computers that always reset/clean every time to restart it.

Or they are interacting between their two accounts. And then they deserve to get caught.

Dragon Heed
03-01-2010, 22:06
When someone is banned for hacking they should also be removed from the top 20 list on the server for pvp crafting and pve as many times these scores are as a result of their cheating.

Suncross
03-01-2010, 22:37
You don't have to drop the name of the player, but at least the last clan they were in would be helpful.

Facebreaker
03-01-2010, 22:42
When someone is banned for hacking they should also be removed from the top 20 list on the server for pvp crafting and pve as many times these scores are as a result of their cheating.

Sounds like a good idea to me.

doomahx
03-01-2010, 22:50
Yea you do have a point. Still, I'm against afk macro'ing either way! :cool:

I was against it also until I found 20,000 regs on someone AFK macroing.

gheybaby
03-01-2010, 22:56
This is all just words until I see actual proof to the contrary.

The cheater forums are full of accounts who have been posting about their cheats working for a year now.

hitandmiss
03-01-2010, 22:57
http://forums.darkfallonline.com/image.php?u=379855&type=sigpic&dateline=1263798424

When I saw this guys sig I just think wow.... Can AV even view peeps or do they just ghost them on alt accounts and wait for them to use Speed/warping/flying hacks... Cause im pretty sure that kinda PM shouldnt be sent unless u got some monkeys hitting keyboards looking for hackers....

gheybaby
03-01-2010, 22:58
http://forums.darkfallonline.com/image.php?u=379855&type=sigpic&dateline=1263798424

When I saw this guys sig I just think wow.... Can AV even view peeps or do they just ghost them on alt accounts and wait for them to use Speed/warping/flying hacks... Cause im pretty sure that kinda PM shouldnt be sent unless u got some monkeys hitting keyboards looking for hackers....

I'd be shocked if I ever learned that they did more than shadow people while they were flagged invis.

nick larking
03-01-2010, 23:15
I was against it also until I found 20,000 regs on someone AFK macroing.

was he on vacation for a week or someting:ninja:

Domesticated
03-02-2010, 00:00
This is all just words until I see actual proof to the contrary.

The cheater forums are full of accounts who have been posting about their cheats working for a year now.

I think AV is referring to amateur cheating tools. All this stuff about detection probably doesn't work on the top cheat tools. What else can you expect, cheating is in every game.

That said, the update about investigative tools being added to the game, and perhaps a larger staff placed to handle them, is very good news.

Now lets all not abuse the gm report by reporting suspicious activity as if its 100% confirmed hacking just so you get a GM to investigate. Or how about doing a /clanalliance EVERYONE REPORT BOB JOE. This shit doesn't help. Just report the time, location, and an honest description of what you saw. like "/gm_report Bob Joe just mysteriously appeared in sight and then when i approached him he disappeared. This was at my current location 4:25 minutes ago."

Anwedie
03-02-2010, 00:55
"And 1300 total people banned? This game's been out 1 year, half that time it has been on 2 servers."

1300 people is about all the active people left on the entire US server I'd gather. They can't ban many more people or their ghost town will be..well even more of a ghost town.

The first month of NA launch the island of Cairn was absolutely riddled with hackers of all types so much so that people actually quit the game. Nothing was done to them for over a month and the players just had to eat it, the GMs didn't give a shit. After the TRA wars(maybe 2 months into the server and a few hack-teleport-jacked ships later) over half of the original players had quit.

Not saying that everyone quit due to hackers(more left due to the huge honking world that you couldn't find PvP in after you actually crushed your enemies(and they quit)), but rampant cheating does lead to cancellations.

Anyone who remembers Shadowbane knows how bad hacking can ruin a game. Hell hacking there brought down an entire server worth of population. http://www.wired.com/gaming/gamingreviews/news/2003/05/59034

In closing, the enforcement policy of Adventurine sucks. Why ban macro'ers now when you morons let Euroserver maxxed out characters transfer(who most of macro'd to achieve their prowess, not to mention abused early on game mechanics that got fixed later-on). Don't think 200 more hp is an advantage?

-morph-
03-02-2010, 01:21
well you say he got temp banned for something that isnt considered exploiting.

how can anyone know if youre not making up some story?

obviously everyone rather believes the official darkfall representatives and their decisions on banning, than some guy who posts in a forum that he got banned for no reason at all and the GMs are stupid.

Well, obviously you would rather believe the official darkfall representatives.

Please dont apply your almost endearingly infantile naivity to the community as a whole though.

Having followed the game for many many years through development I learned a long time ago to take AVs word with a very large rock of salt.

And from my experiences in game since beta I find their claims about cheat detection and bannings very uncredible to say the least.

As for perma bans on hackers linked to account details etc... There is no evidence of this and very strong evidence to suggest otherwise. (Arkillion flaunting his latest acount on NA1 for a start).

nick larking
03-02-2010, 01:37
Well, obviously you would rather believe the official darkfall representatives.

Please dont apply your almost endearingly infantile naivity to the community as a whole though.

Having followed the game for many many years through development I learned a long time ago to take AVs word with a very large rock of salt.

And from my experiences in game since beta I find their claims about cheat detection and bannings very uncredible to say the least.

As for perma bans on hackers linked to account details etc... There is no evidence of this and very strong evidence to suggest otherwise. (Arkillion flaunting his latest acount on NA1 for a start).

Ye because you ofcourse cant use different paypall accounts, buy accounts from friends who quit or use other cc's.
So tell me what evidence do you have that they dont ban linked accounts? If AV's "evidence" doesnt count why would yours?


Anyways, im sure av bans alot not sure how effecient their automated system is and im sure hackers can find ways around it for the most part unless they are reported and folowed by a gm.
But so far most (actualy all as far as i can tell) of the hackers i have encountered got banned.

-morph-
03-02-2010, 01:56
Ye because you ofcourse cant use different paypall accounts, buy accounts from friends who quit or use other cc's.
So tell me what evidence do you have that they dont ban linked accounts? If AV's "evidence" doesnt count why would yours?


Anyways, im sure av bans alot not sure how effecient their automated system is and im sure hackers can find ways around it for the most part unless they are reported and folowed by a gm.
But so far most (actualy all as far as i can tell) of the hackers i have encountered got banned.

Well I guess you are right about that.

Maybe the accounts we know about that have been banned over 6 times and are still openly playing and not hiding their identity do indeed have seven different credit cards, all with seperate billing addresses and account names... Or maybe their friends are so loyal they do indeed still pay subs for accounts they have given to friends.

It all seems unlikely though to me but even if that is the case it doesnt change the fact that we have six-time 'perma banned' accounts that really dont seem that permentantly banned given that they are still playing and we all know who they are.

As for paypal accounts, I wouldnt know, I dont use paypal. But if that is the case and these linked account mesures are so easily circumavigated that they become redundant maybe it is a little early for AV to be bringing out the victory parade isnt it.

Wizard of Yndor
03-02-2010, 02:15
Stop deleting replies just because I criticize AV & no macroing.


There's a lot of people who think it's lame we aren't allowed to AFK macro anymore. Deleting criticism wont change that.
We're still here and we still think your policies are shit. So we don't care about them.. You can shove them up your ass.

This game is about freedom, so people should be able to police the game themselves for AFK macroers. To PK regs and raid cities during the night. To annoy ppl AFK swimming by killing them and robbing them of their vitality gains. It worked fine before u changed it...



From reading your post, I must assume that: There are a lot of people who think that they know how to read, but obviously do not. Some individuals do not have enough reading comprehension skills to read a terms of service contract, and a EULA, and understand that it is intended to be taken seriously.

Individuals who ARE TOO FUCKING STUPID TO REALIZE THAT THEY HAVE BEEN CHEATING FROM DAY ONE BECAUSE THEY DON'T KNOW HOW TO READ!


AV has not changed anything regarding the policies on cheating since this game was released. So trying to make it sound like AV is sneaking in a retroactive ban due to some new policy is utter bullshit.

Now go read the terms of service, and the EULA. And actually understand it before you make any more inflammatory posts accusing AV of wronging anyone by bitch-slapping them with a ban hammer.


And thank you AV for having the guts to stand behind your well thought out policies, even in the face of harsh opposition. Your loyal, non-cheating player base loves you even more. :D

RabicanShiver
03-02-2010, 02:56
I almost find it hard to believe that AV does anything to cheaters in this game. One of the reasons I quit playing (although Im considering coming back) was the amount of people I would see or hear of cheating. I also knew people who went as far as subscribing to cheating services :eek:
People who would cheat, hack, dupe etc. and recieve warnings, and then be right back in the game. I could name names... but I wont.

Im just hoping that things have improved.... we shall see.

[LoD] EE
03-02-2010, 04:06
I almost find it hard to believe that AV does anything to cheaters in this game. One of the reasons I quit playing (although Im considering coming back) was the amount of people I would see or hear of cheating. I also knew people who went as far as subscribing to cheating services :eek:
People who would cheat, hack, dupe etc. and recieve warnings, and then be right back in the game. I could name names... but I wont.

Im just hoping that things have improved.... we shall see.

Simply put, hacking in this game is not a common occurrence. I have seen more cheating in TF2 than I have in DF.

ReddogTN
03-02-2010, 04:33
Its funny how you suddenly put a system into place that bans afk macroers automatically when people have been doing it for over a year now.

How do you expect people to keep up with the vets?
How do you expect people to want to keep up with the mundane skill system this game has? (~100 000 casts to get 75 GM mana efficiency for example - on players. Divide by 6 to get mob casts.)
How do you expect the playerbase will handle this when 99% of the game's population has afk macroed in their Darkfall lifetime? (Yes, EVERYONE I know has macroed, even if its just swimming. The 1% is people that say they don't because of principle, but no one really knows if they do it or not)

The worst thing is you don't even notify your customers that you have put such a system in place, and then they get banned when they have just been doing what they have been doing without problems for over a year!

You really think this will fix the problem? Maybe if you put it in at release and enforced it, but after a year? What a joke.

To reply to his comment. He makes a good point, About being able to for a year. Then banning without any warning of a system. Av you say well we warned you before? Well yes and no I was under the understandding that you couldnt afk swim or macro in or around NPC cities. So that suggest that you can in player cities or afk walking/ swiming in sea. I know some one that almost got banned for afk swiming in the sea. He would set it up then work from home watching on another screen best he could. But still That was not allowed I guese cause he got kicked almost banned. So I beleive you need to deceide what is legal and is not, And inform the public ahead of time fully and competly so no confusen.
That being sad. to refer how to keep up with vets well same thing most of us do Harvest for the HP grind like hell, For the rest. Yes alot of EU transfer macroed alot vets did or doing. Did I yes a couple of time's. But very little and it was mainly swiming when I did. Most what skills I have is from grinding like a freaking zombie. Never like the macro thing. To easy to lose shit load of Mats. Not to mention Not earned! So I didnt aprove of doing it. Archery can be done very easy know which with good bow. It well keep up with magic mostly. Better than before atleast. Hp I have over 300 lets say 98% was from gathering wood and ore. Weapons better to hit mobs with anyways makes money and skill up.
I want to say also about the whole cheatting thing my opinion AV is doing alot to prevent, and doing a good job at it for the most part. People are not thinking about every single PC game can and is hacked! some stop better than others, But never the less there going to be some hacker in some where to ruin the game no matter what game it is. Thankfully I see very little in here comparied to alot of games.

BlueOreo
03-02-2010, 04:45
Considering I just saw DONTBANMEAGAIN ORILLREALLCRY in game yesterday on a new character, I'm taking this news post with a grain or two of salt. This is a guy who discretely cheated for months (all of NA-1 according to his own claims) was caught by multiple players, reported multiple times, but never observed by a GM (yea, fantastic detection system you got there), so was allowed to run free for a long time.

Then, after becoming bored with the game (the hacker's Achilles heel), he went on a blatant hacking spree, teleporting everywhere, sticky backing people and the like. Of course he was reported, observed, and banned. After all this, the guy makes a thread on the NA political forums confessing to it all, telling his story, etc, claiming he hacked/exploited over 3 million in gold, etc. And now I see him back in game yesterday, months later?

Banning accounts on a customer level my ass.


No. As explained, not only do you get banned at the account level, your billing information (and more!) gets banned as well ;)

If only this were actually true. (see above)



AV has not changed anything regarding the policies on cheating since this game was released. So trying to make it sound like AV is sneaking in a retroactive ban due to some new policy is utter bullshit.


Regardless of what was written in the EULA, it was not enforced consistently over time. That's what these posters are complaining about. Hell, I remember when they would only kick you for macroing inside of NPC safe zones. I'm not shitting you--that's how they enforced the exact same EULA that they have now (but is enforced radically differently). GMs would actually tell people just not to macro in NPC safe zones.

Here's an artifact from that rule still present on their official support site:

May I use my Logitech G15/G19 to create and use macro's in game?
Article Yes, you are allowed to configure macros with your G15 or G19.
Please note that you are not allowed to use a quick loot script.
Make sure it is not something you wouldn't be able to do normally and avoid using those macros in areas protected by NPC towers.
-Darkfall Support (http://support.us.darkfallonline.com/index.php?_m=knowledgebase&_a=viewarticle&kbarticleid=123)

ChinaCat
03-02-2010, 05:33
If we can't have names, can we at least have a graveyard with their heads on spikes? Can throw in some undead mobs for atmosphere ^^

Lashiec9
03-02-2010, 05:41
If we can't have names, can we at least have a graveyard with their heads on spikes? Can throw in some undead mobs for atmosphere ^^

This is just pure win.

oG-
03-02-2010, 06:28
this is kinda fun considering there are long term cheaters still ingame after thousands of reports

anyway i hope you are right and they get a ban after all

/this

/THIS

/THIS <--- THAT ONE!!!

kyleivanblake
03-02-2010, 06:42
I know people who have been using radar hacks since beta and have never been banned...

Dragoon
03-02-2010, 07:33
I know people who have been using radar hacks since beta and have never been banned...

So do I. There's also lots of well known players who use their alts to hack and those alts haven't been banned. It's common knowledge that AV has no cheat protection whatsoever. They catch cheaters by investigating players that have been reported, the GM's basically have to catch the player in the act. I understand why they want people to think that they have awesome cheat protection but it's kind of a farce at this point. Do they think we're stupid?

I will say though that 90% of the time people complain about hackers on the forums they're just baddies making up excuses for why they lost. However hackers do exists and AV cannot catch them. Even disregarding the hackers this is probably the most exploited MMO in history. That's just the nature of Darkfall. If you didn't exploit mob AI for hundreds of thousands of gold or macro at night while you slept then you probably suck because that's how the game was designed to play.

starsaul
03-02-2010, 07:45
great job !!!! stop the macros (autohotkey,g11&15... ):sly:

Aros
03-02-2010, 08:57
Sadly I do not believe in this.


Just take Arkillion for example, he had 3 accounts banned and now he is playing on a fourth?


Uhm, that makes no sense with your system.

exuras
03-02-2010, 09:52
When people get an account banned from the game, why are they allowed back into the game if they buy a new account?

No im rather sure their credit credentials are banned aswell, maybe with a diffrent payment source.

Spottycat
03-02-2010, 10:09
I'm gonna say this again because GMs need to be educated.

GMs need to be more consistent in their enforcement of "what is" and "what isn't" allowed (exploiting)!!

I'm stating this because recently I had friends get a temp ban without warning for training spells on a mob. However please note the following:

-The mob was not bugged
-The mob had ranged/ magic spells
-The mob could still hit the player and was indeed hitting them
-Player was using terrain as an advantage to duck and hide. (a highly praised and advertised feature by AV of the game world)

Now I realize this is not the thread nor the way to dispute a temp ban. Nor am I disputing this one instance. What I am however saying is there have been many post within the forums by the community of GM inconsistencies. For instance on GM telling a player something is alright and another telling them it is against the rules, or even silly situations where a GM apologizes after stating some false game feature. It just seems the GMs need to be educated more are bannable situations/scenarios.

Had this crap happen to a guildmate of mine recently.

The mobs in question could hit them where they were hiding. If the mob couldn't get into melee range but you could still hit them with a two-hander if they tried, they would back up and use ranged damage, forcing the player to evade or heal until the mob tried to rush for melee hits again (which it couldn't reach) so the AI code would tell it to retreat and try for ranged attacks again, or to retreat for a while when it's health got low - unless more mobs in the spawn ran up and blocked it in.

Some irritated player decided to GM_report simply that this individual was exploiting mobs - and rather than investigate the situation that was going on, the individual in question was slapped with a 3-day no-appeal ban regardless of the fact that he was using the mob spawn legitimately as described above.

----

I've asked in petitions before too, what exactly constituted an exploiting offense and was told in summary -- "If the mobs can't tell that you exist, and you're killing them, you're in trouble. - If you're inside of a wall, rock or object, you're in trouble."

Regardless of that, players are still being temp-banned for crap that is supposed to be legal because some GM decides that perching and clever use of environment is exploiting even though every GM I ask for clarification states that these activities are legal.

----

The GMs are being used as griefing tools by players too often lately... somebody gets upset and since they aren't strong enough to resolve the problem with PvP, they call a GM to harrass the player or their associates instead. We should be letting players police the server like the players should be doing...

I feel we should be keeping the GM policing to Racial NPC cities underneath cover of NPC guard towers and for obvious geometry exploits and hacking if you catch somebody inside a wall, rock or under the world...


-----------

Hopefully these upgrades in cheat detection will allow GMs to get on the same page when it comes to what is and isn't legal gameplay for players who aren't using external applications.

Spottycat
03-02-2010, 10:10
great job !!!! stop the macros (autohotkey,g11&15... ):sly:

n9o wa7y 8don't0 to7uch m6y mac7ros!0!1

raffraff
03-02-2010, 10:34
Arkillion is on his 6th account.

ChubtoadSUN
03-02-2010, 11:11
within 48 hours of trials, we had 7-8 real cheaters teleport /stickyback, underwolrd looting. Then we actually commented last night that we havent seen any since.

Tsalarian
03-02-2010, 11:38
I'm guessing Arkillion got tired of it or ran out of credit cards.

Abremalist
03-02-2010, 11:59
This is all just words until I see actual proof to the contrary.

The cheater forums are full of accounts who have been posting about their cheats working for a year now.

Or perhaps that is in part people that benefit financially from people buying and using the hacking software? :sly:

kdchan
03-02-2010, 12:06
If you use third party programs to cheat with, you will be detected and you'll get a permanent ban.

So why a know cheater like Arkillion Asura take several months before he get banned if the detection system is so good?
People report him several times not only using gm_report but through blatant videos. If you block the credit card so you should know that Arkillion has buy another account and he continue to play with another character.

Good to know you improve your detection system, but before i say is improved and work i want see on my eyes facts.

KoKane
03-02-2010, 12:12
I'm loving the ANG defense here. Guilty conscience Kaok?

Lysette
03-02-2010, 12:37
A rather important point not mentioned is that banning an account is one thing, clearly explaining why to someone who considers that they have not cheated in any way is another.

It is an excellent thing to ban cheats, but the flip side of that is there needs to be a suitable review process to ensure that innocent players are not caught by mistake.

Granted most often there will be no mistake, however when I hear in-game of players who have been banned but allegedly after two weeks of trying still do not understand what it was they were meant to have been done and who were not using third party programs, there needs to be a clear and open appeal process. That does not mean the ban will be lifted, rather given the time and energy people invest in the game, AV needs to be clear about the reasons, and where appropriate to permit a player back into the game world.

Cheating ruins games. We all know that, and it is great AV is finally getting it together on catching cheats. However banning innocent or mistaken players can ruin a game too, so the process cannot end with the ban.

Paranoia21
03-02-2010, 12:38
It is an excellent thing to ban cheats, but the flip side of that is there needs to be a suitable review process to ensure that innocent players are not caught by mistake.



happened a couple of times i think

I got Your FIX
03-02-2010, 12:42
Its funny how you suddenly put a system into place that bans afk macroers automatically when people have been doing it for over a year now.

How do you expect people to keep up with the vets?
How do you expect people to want to keep up with the mundane skill system this game has? (~100 000 casts to get 75 GM mana efficiency for example - on players. Divide by 6 to get mob casts.)
How do you expect the playerbase will handle this when 99% of the game's population has afk macroed in their Darkfall lifetime? (Yes, EVERYONE I know has macroed, even if its just swimming. The 1% is people that say they don't because of principle, but no one really knows if they do it or not)

The worst thing is you don't even notify your customers that you have put such a system in place, and then they get banned when they have just been doing what they have been doing without problems for over a year!

You really think this will fix the problem? Maybe if you put it in at release and enforced it, but after a year? What a joke.

quit your bitching its called go play the game..... iv been playing a a month an 1/2 and if i must say so iv damn near caught up with the Vets who have been playing since NA launch. Here's what you do cast on mobs more gains problem solved =)

bongloads
03-02-2010, 12:44
n9o wa7y 8don't0 to7uch m6y mac7ros!0!1

nice lol

KDSAB
03-02-2010, 14:09
Name and shame anyone banned for cheating. THAT is the only thing that will discourage the majority of cheaters, the fear that when darkfall is finished and shut-down - they'll STILL be known as cheaters. Developers who have 100% proof publishing the names of cheaters is a better long-term fix than anything else, it allows the community to police itself more readily.

And FFS get a Dev to respond to Banka's video thread... Fed up of having it bumped.

Most people in this thread's comments summed up : "Proof or its all bullshit AV, so far the hackers have more proof against you being able to detect them and its bad for the game".

Captain Kirk
03-02-2010, 14:28
"Proof or its all bullshit AV, so far the hackers have more proof against you being able to detect them and its bad for the game".

/signed

McDoogs
03-02-2010, 15:28
If someone is smart enough to only use the radar, they wont get caught by anything AV has doing the detecting atm.

Deerhunter
03-02-2010, 15:45
if someone is smart enough to only use the radar, they wont get caught by anything av has doing the detecting atm.

qft

stony23
03-02-2010, 15:49
just watched bankas vid...and yeah its really sad.

any comment from AV to it?

Grim Creaper
03-02-2010, 16:10
This sounds good on paper, but it still needs some work. Last week, we had a teleport hacker inside our city. Thursday, we had about 10 people report him, multiple times each. Friday, he appeared again, same name same EXACT character. Again, we had about 10 people reporting this character. After about another 2 hours, they finally banned the account.

Because when you /tell someone and they are online... and you /tell them 2 hours later and they are still online....

Then you /tell and they are offline

Abso
03-02-2010, 16:21
Name and shame anyone banned for cheating. THAT is the only thing that will discourage the majority of cheaters, the fear that when darkfall is finished and shut-down - they'll STILL be known as cheaters.

This

:ohno:

stony23
03-02-2010, 16:47
i dont know if AV or the community liasons already got that, but there is a video of a cheater in the PVP section of this forums. and this guy is apparently not banned yet.

its kinda really sad if u see such a thread in the spotlight forum...and then in the pvp forum theres a guy who blatantly cheats, even posts videos about it and nothing is done about it?

serious problem for av there.

Deerhunter
03-02-2010, 16:54
i dont know if AV or the community liasons already got that, but there is a video of a cheater in the PVP section of this forums. and this guy is apparently not banned yet.

its kinda really sad if u see such a thread in the spotlight forum...and then in the pvp forum theres a guy who blatantly cheats, even posts videos about it and nothing is done about it?

serious problem for av there.

Remember though they also put a known cheater/hacker in their spotlight as well, lol

Ayn Sheron
03-02-2010, 16:57
there no mistake

they checked before to ban

stony23
03-02-2010, 17:09
i really wonder whats taking them so long sometimes.

Suncross
03-02-2010, 19:48
AV is doing a good job, and I am happy towards the effort they are putting into banning the cheaters. However, there are a few people that I know to use hacks such as melee aim bots, etc. Until they are banned, I hope I can be forgiven for storing little faith in the effectiveness of the anti-cheat systems.

Vokeles
03-02-2010, 21:09
i dont know if AV or the community liasons already got that, but there is a video of a cheater in the PVP section of this forums. and this guy is apparently not banned yet.

its kinda really sad if u see such a thread in the spotlight forum...and then in the pvp forum theres a guy who blatantly cheats, even posts videos about it and nothing is done about it?

serious problem for av there.

Kaok, please /GM_Report and stop posting.

Vokeles
03-02-2010, 21:09
Kaok, please /GM_Report and stop posting.

*Kaok is refering to Banka Plix*

Slaanesh I
03-02-2010, 21:29
Its funny how you suddenly put a system into place that bans afk macroers automatically when people have been doing it for over a year now.

How do you expect people to keep up with the vets?
How do you expect people to want to keep up with the mundane skill system this game has? (~100 000 casts to get 75 GM mana efficiency for example - on players. Divide by 6 to get mob casts.)
How do you expect the playerbase will handle this when 99% of the game's population has afk macroed in their Darkfall lifetime? (Yes, EVERYONE I know has macroed, even if its just swimming. The 1% is people that say they don't because of principle, but no one really knows if they do it or not)

The worst thing is you don't even notify your customers that you have put such a system in place, and then they get banned when they have just been doing what they have been doing without problems for over a year!

You really think this will fix the problem? Maybe if you put it in at release and enforced it, but after a year? What a joke.

This automated banning makes me nervous, makes one hope that AV won't use it to close the gap between veterans and new players.
One way someone new can catch up without macroing, is to take away the grind.

And to be perfectly honest, I'm not sure I even want to play a game that I spent months on training only to see a one week character get the same results in that week.

Ban the vets, remove the grind or actually make it an official part of the game to macro and/or use your ninja programming skills to actually fix the actual issue.
Tough choice AV, hope you make the right one!

giantAppleCore
03-02-2010, 21:45
Remember though they also put a known cheater/hacker in their spotlight as well, lol

This one is the only one I have 0 doubt is a cheater/hacker. The day he disappears from the game is the day I'll start trusting AV's anti-cheating methods.

Deerhunter
03-02-2010, 21:55
This one is the only one I have 0 doubt is a cheater/hacker. The day he disappears from the game is the day I'll start trusting AV's anti-cheating methods.

Oh I am? You need to go read the public forums at those sites and how they LOL at AV and their detection...

Butthurt because Apoc Sov on EU was banned yet they did a spotlight on him?

http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=217096

Suncross
03-02-2010, 22:43
Kaok, please /GM_Report and stop posting.

Has that worked for you? I have gm_reported people that were sticky backing mobs and 1) got no response and 2) I still see these players playing today.

giantAppleCore
03-02-2010, 22:56
Has that worked for you? I have gm_reported people that were sticky backing mobs and 1) got no response and 2) I still see these players playing today.

A group of us in SB saw a guy sticky backing in Ruby, reported him, one of the reporters got the response that it was taken care of and the guy was logged off. Two hours later he was back, same name. We were completely at a loss. I'm going with the hope that the gm that observed him didnt have the authority to ban completely, and they were waiting for someone higher up to review a fraps, but if I see him in game again (and I currently expect to, he was still on 4 days later) I will cry.

giantAppleCore
03-02-2010, 22:59
Oh I am? You need to go read the public forums at those sites and how they LOL at AV and their detection...

Butthurt because Apoc Sov on EU was banned yet they did a spotlight on him?

http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=217096

By this one I was referring to Apoc, not Deerhunter, just wanted to clarify that. I don't know who Deerhunter is in game.

Deerhunter
03-02-2010, 23:12
No problem man :)

Winter Olympics
03-02-2010, 23:12
Like LC, I know several people who have admitted to cheating and still do to this day.

As well as that, I can name 3 people off the top of my head that have been banned and are on a different account with the same billing info, so that whole part was full of crap.

Anyone who thinks Radar is detectable to this day is wrong, and that's the most rampant used hack.

$id Viciou$
03-02-2010, 23:44
I wouldn't feel good about summoning a huge boat now that there is a 7-day trial . .. I would not want to risk getting it taken by a cheater.

I do want more people to play the game, and after seeing race alliance chat, I can see that MANY people have taken advantage of the trial, but I still will be wary about things like summoning a boat, until there are very few reports of that kind of theft.

:(

$id Viciou$
03-02-2010, 23:46
Anyone who thinks Radar is detectable to this day is wrong, and that's the most rampant used hack.

Yeah . .. that pisses me off more than anything . .. one of the coolest things about this game is the stealth, but raiding a city and a lot of solo PVP is no fun if you cannot hide.

Vokeles
03-03-2010, 01:54
Has that worked for you? I have gm_reported people that were sticky backing mobs and 1) got no response and 2) I still see these players playing today.

Well the GM's are people, if you don't get a response try again later. Kaok is making up facts to fit his theories, this happens with cheat accusations, I'm not defending cheats by that I'm just saying that I doubt Banka cheats, and if he wants definitive answers he should GM_Report otherwise he can't be 100% sure that someone is cheating. All of this is about aimbot / wallhack / radar.

jjkjoo
03-03-2010, 02:13
tl;dr

macroers complainign about cheaters

Anwedie
03-03-2010, 02:20
Cheating is like Indian food. Eat a little and you get away with it, get greedy and it's a night of the squirts for you.

Using counterstrike as an example(for no particular reason), the very best cheaters who used "see through wall" hacks were never detected, period. And do you know why? Anyone that is willing to cheat and wants to do it well is going to be smart about it. Noone is disputing that the guy who is teleporting around is not being smart about his hacking. But if you're smart about it, it is so easy to make it look like you aren't cheating that noone ever gets suspicious. You throw a few deaths to that guy you see camping behind the crate, you toss a grenade far enough away from someone so that you look clueless, in other words you take a "dive". It's still easy to pick out the blatant hackers in games like Call of Duty 4:MW2, but the good ones are a lot harder to detect.

In the case of autoaim bots; a half-decent player is already going to be aiming at a person, reasonably well. In these instances autoaim is harder to spot because you don't see a huge whiplash as the mouse cursor flies across the screen 160 degrees from the camera view(archery). Melee is even harder to detect because of the "sweep". Most meleers know that if you swing then sweep your mouse you'll actually hit a larger area(probably due to the fact that in Darkfall, hits register on the tail-end of a swing not as the swing begins). In the case of an autoaim for melee, it blends in pretty well with normal movement(unless you see a huge whiplash). You can't prove the lag exploit. I've spied on people from walls that are running around at perfect ping in action and as soon as they begin to lose they start "mini-lag-teleporting". When you question these people in tells they make up BS like "I'm from Australia". If that's the case then how were they just fighting 3 people perfectly fine?

Unfortunately, you can never prove this and a company will never ban someone without super-sufficient proof(even if their entire customer-base is eroding away) because of the off-chance that the guy was innocent and raises a giant blogwar(not that anyone else would give a crap).

Staying on the lookout for cheaters is like fishing with a net with big holes, you cast out the net and of course the easiest fish to spot are the biggest ones.

Deerhunter
03-03-2010, 02:29
I've spied on people from walls that are running around at perfect ping in action and as soon as they begin to lose they start "mini-lag-teleporting". When you question these people in tells they make up BS like "I'm from Australia". If that's the case then how were they just fighting 3 people perfectly fine?



Those are the funniest no doubt or my torrent JUST started running, lol

littl6fact
03-03-2010, 03:12
honestly the only people who ever get caught are the ones who get sloppy... and yea AV fails at catching people if they actually could detect the majority of 3rd party programs used 90% of their population on both servers would be banned...

RabicanShiver
03-03-2010, 03:29
EE;4100266']Simply put, hacking in this game is not a common occurrence. I have seen more cheating in TF2 than I have in DF.

You might be right, but the stakes in this game are a lot higher when competing against a hacker/ cheater. Die in tf2, you respawn. die in df and you lose hours worth of gathering gold, items resources, armor etc.

Not to mention, the whole point of this thread is to tout AVs crackdown on cheating... I know for a fact that there was rampant cheating going on for months after the major release, and nothing was done about it. Or very very very little was done. Is it different now, maybe. I havent really played in like two months.

Chival
03-03-2010, 04:01
and in some cases our billing department had to contact Paypal, or their credit institutions and ISPs on their activities.
.

and they would do absolutely nothing, Paypal doesnt give a shit if you cheat in a game, niether does your isp. how stupid do you think people are.

[LoD] EE
03-03-2010, 04:15
You might be right, but the stakes in this game are a lot higher when competing against a hacker/ cheater. Die in tf2, you respawn. die in df and you lose hours worth of gathering gold, items resources, armor etc.

Not to mention, the whole point of this thread is to tout AVs crackdown on cheating... I know for a fact that there was rampant cheating going on for months after the major release, and nothing was done about it. Or very very very little was done. Is it different now, maybe. I havent really played in like two months.

My point was that I play a lot more DF than I do TF2 and I have seen less cheating here than I have in that which means something. I do think Steam has a tougher anti-cheat code with punk buster.

I am always down for better cheat detection though.

ChinaCat
03-03-2010, 05:16
EE;4102390'] I do think Steam has a tougher anti-cheat code with punk buster.

I am always down for better cheat detection though.

Amen brother.

stony23
03-03-2010, 06:46
and they would do absolutely nothing, Paypal doesnt give a shit if you cheat in a game, niether does your isp. how stupid do you think people are.

lol naive little kid

Grimmace
03-03-2010, 06:52
No, the problem is how american parents raise their kids.

That's a problem to, but it's not an excuse to let people getting away with shit stick around forever. You can't blame a society for a problem that can be solved locally by the dev team.

Dr Fuenke
03-03-2010, 07:26
Banning for afk macroing is ok, but NOT perm bans. And I also think that any member of a 500+ people alliance should be banned. It is pretty hilarious hearing leaders of super zergs bitching about the afk swimmers. Get a life, zerg chicken.

barny3
03-03-2010, 07:30
EE;4102390']My point was that I play a lot more DF than I do TF2 and I have seen less cheating here than I have in that which means something. I do think Steam has a tougher anti-cheat code with punk buster.

I am always down for better cheat detection though.

If you can SEE a cheater, then he is a shitty chearer. Radar hack, can you see that? Rampant mob exploitation, can you see that? Sometimes.

Dr Fuenke
03-03-2010, 07:46
lol naive little kid

You SERIOUSLY think my ISP gives a shit what i do in a game as long as I don't abuse kids or scam people for IRL money?

Gutsy
03-03-2010, 11:39
I was also banned(24h) for not enjoying attended grind as well as few clanmates in past week. I doubt this will teach me to love the grind so let's see what comes next. I doubt they have enough new players to permaban more than few. But it's really not my problem if they smash their half empty piggybank swinging with banhammer. :ohno: :lmao:

Ighox
03-03-2010, 12:07
lol naive little kid

Why would paypal care?:lmao:

phildragon
03-03-2010, 12:13
id be very interested to see the ban list. i know my friend was a really bad hacker on this and got all 3 sccounts per ban lol( idiot).

i dont see the point in cheating TBH unless you have no patiance atall or just somthing to do for a day beacause you get bored, i dont know.

oh well, fuck cheaters :sly:

stony23
03-03-2010, 12:24
paypal user agreement:

Prohibited Transactions. You agree that you will not use PayPal to accept payment for illegal products or services, including but not limited to materials that infringe the intellectual property rights of third parties. You will not use the Service, the PayPal website or any of the services offered therein for any unlawful or fraudulent activity. If PayPal (or Wells Fargo, in connection with processing credit card transactions) has reason to believe that you may be engaging in or have engaged in fraudulent, unlawful, or improper activity, including without limitation any violation of any terms and conditions of this Agreement, your access to the Service may be suspended or terminated. Further, if such behavior involved a MasterCard or VISA credit card transaction, it may result in you/your business being prevented from registering for payment acceptance through any payment provider or directly with any bank acquirer operating under license to either the MasterCard or VISA card associations. You will cooperate fully with PayPal Wells Fargo, MasterCard or VISA to investigate any suspected unlawful, fraudulent or improper activity, including but not limited to granting authorized PayPal representatives "guest" or "member" access to any password-protected portions of your website.

privacy policy:

How we share personal information with other parties

# Credit bureaus to report account information, as permitted by law.

# Law enforcement, government officials, or other third parties when

* we are compelled to do so by a subpoena, court order or similar legal procedure
* we need to do so to comply with law
* we believe in good faith that the disclosure of personal information is necessary to prevent physical harm or financial loss, to report suspected illegal activity, or to investigate violations of our User Agreement.

stony23
03-03-2010, 12:25
Why would paypal care?:lmao:

astonishing how many ppl know absolutely nothing about the internet

Ighox
03-03-2010, 12:27
astonishing how many ppl know absolutely nothing about the internet

Astonishing how you think cheating is against the law.

stony23
03-03-2010, 12:31
Astonishing how you think cheating is against the law.

im explaining you something, little kid.

you agree to the TOS when u start darkfall. the TOS clearly states that you agree to never cheat on their servers. if you do so, you are breaking the contract you signed with aventurine, and therefore youre breaking a law(breach of contract).

paypal is bound to give out any account and personal information of you in that case.

besides that, using hacks that alter the client youre using to play darkfall, is another lawbreaking activity, since you are modifying intellectual property of other ppl without any permission.


id suggest you read the TOS at least one time before you start up darkfall again

Ighox
03-03-2010, 12:33
im explaining you something, little kid.

you agree to the TOS when u start darkfall. the TOS clearly states that you agree to never cheat on their servers. if you do so, you are breaking the contract you signed with aventurine, and therefore youre breaking a law(breach of contract).


Not sure if you're serious or trolling, but the terms of service isn't a legal document.

stony23
03-03-2010, 12:38
Not sure if you're serious or trolling, but the terms of service isn't a legal document.

mods, please ban this retard from your forums.

btw: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glider_%28bot%29

"In July 2008, the court entered summary judgment holding Glider's creators liable for tortious interference and copyright infringement, based, in part, upon the legal premise that users of the World of Warcraft client software are licensees rather than owners of their copy of software."

"The court found that Glider infringed upon Blizzard's intellectual property by making an illicit copy of the World of Warcraft client in order to avoid Blizzard's anti-cheating software, Warden, and ordered MMO Glider to pay Blizzard six million dollars."

stony23
03-03-2010, 12:41
6 million dollars, thx stupid cheaters for supporting our online games with so much money.

stony23
03-03-2010, 12:46
You SERIOUSLY think my ISP gives a shit what i do in a game as long as I don't abuse kids or scam people for IRL money?

nowadays kids are really stupid....

Ighox
03-03-2010, 12:49
mods, please ban this retard from your forums.

btw: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glider_%28bot%29

"In July 2008, the court entered summary judgment holding Glider's creators liable for tortious interference and copyright infringement, based, in part, upon the legal premise that users of the World of Warcraft client software are licensees rather than owners of their copy of software."

"The court found that Glider infringed upon Blizzard's intellectual property by making an illicit copy of the World of Warcraft client in order to avoid Blizzard's anti-cheating software, Warden, and ordered MMO Glider to pay Blizzard six million dollars."
What are you on about?
Glider was illegal by law because copyright infringement is illegal and not because it broke the EULA/TOS.

Notice how it was the creators that got punished?
That wasn't because they cheated, that wasn't because they created a botting program.
As you already found the source for me, it was because of this: The court found that Glider infringed upon Blizzard's intellectual property by making an illicit copy of the World of Warcraft client in order to avoid Blizzard's anti-cheating software, Warden.
Look up "copyright infringement" please, that's why Blizzard was successful in court against the Glider developers.

It wasn't illegal by law to use Glider in WoW, it's not against the law to use hacks in Darkfall.

But you're funny though, please keep going.

stony23
03-03-2010, 12:54
What are you on about?
Glider was illegal by law because copyright infringement is illegal and not because it broke the EULA/TOS.

Notice how it was the creators that got punished?
That wasn't because they cheated, that wasn't because they created a botting program.
As you already found the source for me, it was because of this: The court found that Glider infringed upon Blizzard's intellectual property by making an illicit copy of the World of Warcraft client in order to avoid Blizzard's anti-cheating software, Warden.
Look up "copyright infringement" please, that's why Blizzard was successful in court against the Glider developers.

It wasn't illegal by law to use Glider in WoW, it's not against the law to use hacks in Darkfall.

But you're funny though, please keep going.

there isnt really a point arguing with a retard. if breach of contract is not against the law for you, i cant help you.

stony23
03-03-2010, 13:00
Software license agreement:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_license_agreement

"A software license agreement is a contract between the "licensor" and purchaser of the right to use software. The license may define ways under which the copy can be used, in addition to the automatic rights of the buyer including the first sale doctrine and 17 U.S.C. § 117 (freedom to use, archive, re-sale, and backup).

Many form contracts are only contained in digital form, and only presented to a user as a click-through where the user must "accept". As the user may not see the agreement until after he or she has already purchased the software, these documents may be contracts of adhesion. These documents often call themselves end-user license agreements (EULAs)."

there you go kid, learned something today uh?

Ighox
03-03-2010, 13:04
there isnt really a point arguing with a retard. if breach of contract is not against the law for you, i cant help you.

It's not against the law for me no.

But it is for you obviously so you better watch out;
vii. When communicating in Darkfall online using Chat (including, without limitation, server wide chat and use of the whisper command), you may not spam, flood, or make duplicate posts.
This is directly from the ToS, if you make a duplicate post I'll sue you for breaking the LAW so watch your steps!

Chival
03-03-2010, 13:06
paypal user agreement:

Prohibited Transactions. You agree that you will not use PayPal to accept payment for illegal products or services, including but not limited to materials that infringe the intellectual property rights of third parties. You will not use the Service, the PayPal website or any of the services offered therein for any unlawful or fraudulent activity. If PayPal (or Wells Fargo, in connection with processing credit card transactions) has reason to believe that you may be engaging in or have engaged in fraudulent, unlawful, or improper activity, including without limitation any violation of any terms and conditions of this Agreement, your access to the Service may be suspended or terminated. Further, if such behavior involved a MasterCard or VISA credit card transaction, it may result in you/your business being prevented from registering for payment acceptance through any payment provider or directly with any bank acquirer operating under license to either the MasterCard or VISA card associations. You will cooperate fully with PayPal Wells Fargo, MasterCard or VISA to investigate any suspected unlawful, fraudulent or improper activity, including but not limited to granting authorized PayPal representatives "guest" or "member" access to any password-protected portions of your website.

privacy policy:

How we share personal information with other parties

# Credit bureaus to report account information, as permitted by law.

# Law enforcement, government officials, or other third parties when

* we are compelled to do so by a subpoena, court order or similar legal procedure
* we need to do so to comply with law
* we believe in good faith that the disclosure of personal information is necessary to prevent physical harm or financial loss, to report suspected illegal activity, or to investigate violations of our User Agreement.

because user agreements are always enforced right.

stony23
03-03-2010, 13:07
this only applies to INGAME communication.

and yes the forum also has its own rules that forbid double posting.

but the mods watch very closely and see the bullshit youre posting and therefore obviously let my doubleposts stay so everyone knows the truth and isnt confused by little kids fantasies.

wake up kid, its against the law FOR YOU TOO.

Chival
03-03-2010, 13:10
astonishing how many ppl know absolutely nothing about the internet

astonishing how much faith you have on useless contracts and user agreements. They mean nothing unless the companies are ready to go to court over it.

stony23
03-03-2010, 13:11
astonishing how much faith you have on useless contracts and user agreements. They mean nothing unless the companies are ready to go to court over it.

let me quote an earlier post from you again:


and they would do absolutely nothing, Paypal doesnt give a shit if you cheat in a game, niether does your isp. how stupid do you think people are.

kid, you should wake up too before you land in jail because you think breach of contract isnt against the law.

Chival
03-03-2010, 13:13
nowadays kids are really stupid....

you have said little kid about 30 times now.

the only one that sounds like a child on this thread so far is you, having blind faith in contracts and user agreements and law.

stony23
03-03-2010, 13:14
if you get old enough so youre allowed to sign a contract, you will know that you are breaking a law if you commit breach of contract.

Chival
03-03-2010, 13:18
I cannot believe your so ignorant as to believe cheating in a video game is going to put you in jail.

Contracts and user agreements simply aren't brought to court unless they can make money or stop themselves from losing money somehow by doing so, otherwise they are are not going to waste the resources.

This is the real world, im done with this conversation because you obviously don't get it.

Ighox
03-03-2010, 13:20
astonishing how much faith you have on useless contracts and user agreements. They mean nothing unless the companies are ready to go to court over it.

The only purpose of EULA's is just so we can't sue the company over anything and it gives the company all the power without having to give a shit about us.
We agree that they can delete us without any reason and shit.
But it will never never never be used as a "HEY YOU CHEATED IN MY GAME LETS TAKE IT TO COURT" document or a "LOL FUCKING SPAMMER, ME, YOU, COURT, NOW LETS GO!"
And paypal wouldn't give a shit about it, and I'm pretty sure that even AV wouldn't give a shit about it.
It's far far more hassle than it's worth or else every MMO out there would be the perfect thing with ip/paypal bans to prevent cheaters from resubbing.

Chival
03-03-2010, 13:21
if you get old enough so youre allowed to sign a contract, you will know that you are breaking a law if you commit breach of contract.

again with age discrimination, and im likely twice your age...

i have never said its not breaking the law, i have simply said its an extremely rare occasion that gamers get brought to court for.

Stop avoiding the issue by calling everyone little kids your starting to look like a douchebag.

Ighox
03-03-2010, 13:23
again with age discrimination, and im likely twice your age...


v. You may not use sexually explicit, harmful, threatening, abusive, defamatory, obscene, hateful, or racially or ethnically offensive language within the Game, the World or on the official Darkfall online web sites.

Pretty sure that counts as abusive language or something, you should sue him.

Chival
03-03-2010, 13:23
The only purpose of EULA's is just so we can't sue the company over anything and it gives the company all the power without having to give a shit about us.
We agree that they can delete us without any reason and shit.
But it will never never never be used as a "HEY YOU CHEATED IN MY GAME LETS TAKE IT TO COURT" document or a "LOL FUCKING SPAMMER, ME, YOU, COURT, NOW LETS GO!"
And paypal wouldn't give a shit about it, and I'm pretty sure that even AV wouldn't give a shit about it.
It's far far more hassle than it's worth or else every MMO out there would be the perfect thing with ip/paypal bans to prevent cheaters from resubbing.

yup unless they can make or lose money over it they don't care.

stony23
03-03-2010, 13:28
lol kids you simply dont get it.

you both claimed that paypal and the ISPs and credit card companies wont give out personal information if you commit breach of contract.

i set you both right and explained reality, that they very well give out your personal information in such a case.


if AV uses their right to gather your personal information or not, is totally in their control. you dont have anything to say to that.

your statements made me think you dont know that breach of contract is against the law. well if you know it its fine.

and the EULA or TOS or however u wanna call it is very well a legal document...a so called "contract".

its of absolutely no interest to this discussion if its likely that youre going to jail for cheating or not, the fact remains it IS theoretically possible.


edit: to sum it up: i dont think youre going to jail for cheating, but i think youre going to jail because you believe breach of contract isnt against the law, and you might break some more serious contracts in future.

Chival
03-03-2010, 13:33
lol kids you simply dont get it.

you both claimed that paypal and the ISPs and credit card companies wont give out personal information if you commit breach of contract.


i have never said that, i simply said they dont give a shit. They wont ban your account or stop you from creating a new account if AV bans it.

learn to read

stony23
03-03-2010, 13:34
i have never said that, i simply said they dont give a shit. They wont ban your account or stop you from creating a new account if AV bans it.

learn to read

to quote you for a third time:
and they would do absolutely nothing, Paypal doesnt give a shit if you cheat in a game, niether does your isp. how stupid do you think people are.

why did you post that then? who cares if they give a shit or not? they are OBLIGED to do something. stop posting completely meaningless shit pls.

Thlaulan
03-03-2010, 13:35
Perhaps you guys should try and understand the difference between
a) Aventurine will most likely not bother to go to court over minor matters
b) You were unlucky and got to be the one the set an example by

Just ask some of the music downloaders. Most got away free, but some didn't.

Just because they do not prosecute you, do not mean they cannot do it, if they suddenly decide it is worthwhile to do. One possible example could be the very easy to google hack program often cited. Those providing that program would be wayyy more fun to prosecute than you small time fish, but .... you guys might end up without a character at some point. And one thing is sure, YOU can't do squat about that.

Fun thought. you do know they can link your names in forum to your ingame accounts right?

stony23
03-03-2010, 13:37
Perhaps you guys should try and understand the difference between
a) Aventurine will most likely not bother to go to court over minor matters
b) You were unlucky and got to be the one the set an example by

Just ask some of the music downloaders. Most got away free, but some didn't.

Just because they do not prosecute you, do not mean they cannot do it, if they suddenly decide it is worthwhile to do. One possible example could be the very easy to google hack program often cited. Those providing that program would be wayyy more fun to prosecute than you small time fish, but .... you guys might end up without a character at some point. And one thing is sure, YOU can't do squat about that.

Fun thought. you do know they can link your names in forum to your ingame accounts right?

ah finally someone who knows at least a little about the subject. i totally agree

Battle Smurf
03-03-2010, 14:13
Hope your right.

But you know for a fact hes wrong.

Temko Firewing
03-03-2010, 14:30
just to add, not to dis-credit/rebuff, the points made

8/10 ToS/Eula's are NOT legal due to faulty wording, phrasing or just containing apsects which are in direct conflict with certain laws.

i'm no lawyer so i got no clue if DF's eula is legally binding but chances are it to is in at least certain countries a non-legal document or contract.

Dwarf Anater
03-03-2010, 15:14
astonishing how many ppl know absolutely nothing about the internet

astonishing u think paypal will actually follow tru with any of that

stony23
03-03-2010, 15:17
astonishing u think paypal will actually follow tru with any of that

i know since i read their user agreement...which you obviously didnt or your wouldnt make yourself look stupid by posting ridiculous shit.

giantAppleCore
03-03-2010, 16:01
i know since i read their user agreement...which you obviously didnt or your wouldnt make yourself look stupid by posting ridiculous shit.

PayPal isn't going to give out user information because a company in another country said a user broke an agreement. There is far too much risk for them that the other company made a mistake that would open them up to liability. Which going back to the original point 2 pages ago, PayPal will not do anything and it's ridiculous to think otherwise. You can keep arguing and calling people kids all you want, but almost everyone reading you is thinking "ha, that guy's an idiot" Please stop posting ridiculous shit, you're making yourself look stupid.

stony23
03-03-2010, 16:07
PayPal isn't going to give out user information because a company in another country said a user broke an agreement. There is far too much risk for them that the other company made a mistake that would open them up to liability. Which going back to the original point 2 pages ago, PayPal will not do anything and it's ridiculous to think otherwise. You can keep arguing and calling people kids all you want, but almost everyone reading you is thinking "ha, that guy's an idiot" Please stop posting ridiculous shit, you're making yourself look stupid.

it says so in their user agreement. you idiots are really zerging me here. give me a break.

hitandmiss
03-03-2010, 16:09
if a 14year old kid like arkillion can get past there leet block on Paypall and ccs im pretty sure anyone with half a brain and a bit of commitment to cheating can get a few accounts rolling, and lets all think, He was a well know cheater, alot of peeps came out saying "Yes i play with him and he told me he cheats", Had vids on youtube of peeps catching him speed hacking, and had videos of himself hacking, Had 3 accounts banned and was still able to play again for months (5+) before he had his next 2 accounts banned...

What now??? Hes playing on another account....

And he was one of the Super Obvious ones aswell... If u have a bit of tact/skill youre not going to get busted

I dont know which is worse thier ability to stop cheaters comming back or thier ability to catch them...

grimfees
03-03-2010, 17:58
this is kinda fun considering there are long term cheaters still ingame after thousands of reports


this.

i understand the need for av to downplay cheating and to engage in a bit of damage control...but, the OP is just that.

Chival
03-03-2010, 18:21
Fun thought. you do know they can link your names in forum to your ingame accounts right?

nobody has been condoning cheating in this thread, what are they going to do ban us for thinking they are full of it?

not sure what your point is exactly.

[LoD] EE
03-03-2010, 23:57
I agree with Skilla. Paid professional GM's need to be brought in.

Coincidence that guilds get hit by GM's after something happens to another guild or alliance the night before? Maybe but I am starting to doubt it the more times its been happening.

Macroing does not hurt the game, those exploiting do. I feel resources are better spent working on stopping any and all exploiting via cheat programs rather than checking cities for people macroing.

stony23
03-04-2010, 01:28
EE;4104388']I agree with Skilla. Paid professional GM's need to be brought in.

Coincidence that guilds get hit by GM's after something happens to another guild or alliance the night before? Maybe but I am starting to doubt it the more times its been happening.

Macroing does not hurt the game, those exploiting do. I feel resources are better spent working on stopping any and all exploiting via cheat programs rather than checking cities for people macroing.

i dont think darkfalls gms arent professionals...in fact every single mmorpg i ever played had professional gms (who are paid for their work, and who work at offices not from home or somewhere).

i agree tho theres something weird going on in darkfall and i would hear an official response on this too.

in fact we have to distinguish a lot between guys that are afk swimming...guys that are afk macroing....guys that are exploiting mobs....and finally guys that use cheatprograms like aimbot, radarhack and teleport/speedhack. if u constantly see afk macroers beeing banned and nothing done about speedhackers and aimbotters theres obviously something going wrong.

barny3
03-04-2010, 02:16
Stony, stop posting please. All you are doing is making yourself look like an idiot as you defend AV with such zeal, have terrible grammar, call everyone a kid; and type shit like "STOP FORUM ZERGING ME". Now I know your expert sources that you keep citing as if it were legal documentation (Wikipedia) are infallible by nature, but believe it or not; a few Wikipedia articles do not prove that it is against the law in any nation to breach a games Terms of Service.

That being said, the GMs don't do their job correctly.

bmsbob
03-04-2010, 06:04
When people get an account banned from the game, why are they allowed back into the game if they buy a new account?

or if they transfer from one server to another was that really wise?

Hagz
03-04-2010, 06:31
LoD got their ship back. So it looks like AV went against there own policy and returned lost items.

stony23
03-04-2010, 06:40
Stony, stop posting please. All you are doing is making yourself look like an idiot as you defend AV with such zeal, have terrible grammar, call everyone a kid; and type shit like "STOP FORUM ZERGING ME". Now I know your expert sources that you keep citing as if it were legal documentation (Wikipedia) are infallible by nature, but believe it or not; a few Wikipedia articles do not prove that it is against the law in any nation to breach a games Terms of Service.

That being said, the GMs don't do their job correctly.

if you would have read what i wrote you wouldnt make yourself look incredible stupid right now since i said that there has to be clarification why specific ppl arent banned yet.

and im not arguing with some trolls wether or not wikipedia gives out correct information since in this case it did which you failed to see obviously.

if it bothers you that someone calls you a kid, dont post stupid immature comments like "paypal doesnt give a shit what you do in an online game" or "a valid contract i sign is not a legal document"

CorpseCall
03-04-2010, 07:31
if you would have read what i wrote you wouldnt make yourself look incredible stupid right now since i said that there has to be clarification why specific ppl arent banned yet.

and im not arguing with some trolls wether or not wikipedia gives out correct information since in this case it did which you failed to see obviously.

if it bothers you that someone calls you a kid, dont post stupid immature comments like "paypal doesnt give a shit what you do in an online game" or "a valid contract i sign is not a legal document"


Hey dude... you have multiple people trying to get the point across that you're obviously missing...

stfu.

Dr Fuenke
03-04-2010, 08:01
nowadays kids are really stupid....

You seriously are retarded mr Stinkbane. In my country, ISP's doesn't care about piracy even. They will not give out info if I use torrents, and sure as hell won't give out info for cheating in an online game. Are you paid by AV by any chance. You apparently know nothing about laws.

Dr Fuenke
03-04-2010, 08:05
if you get old enough so youre allowed to sign a contract, you will know that you are breaking a law if you commit breach of contract.

You really make me laugh. If you knew anything about paypal they do not interfer when it comes to intangible items. I have lost 400 dollars due to this because I purchased an AOC account and got burned. And please explain to me why an ISP would give a flying rat's ass about some game company's made up, self governed laws? Should the police also arrest you because you are breaking my own made up laws against wearing fleabag clothes?

Dr Fuenke
03-04-2010, 12:06
I just called paypal for the heck of it, here is a direct quote from the conversation.

"Unless we get contacted directly by Law enforcement there is no way whatsoever that we will give out any information to a 3rd party"

Who is incredible stupid now? :D

Fakner
03-04-2010, 12:17
I for one think, banned accounts should be made public information, at one point it was, and the community I'm sure enjoyed the show like some medevil european gallos hanging or head lobbing. I think the community needs to see the work of the GM. Nobody takes AV's words to hold any sort of contnet.
WE wont proof, not promisses

Fakner
03-04-2010, 12:20
You really make me laugh. If you knew anything about paypal they do not interfer when it comes to intangible items. I have lost 400 dollars due to this because I purchased an AOC account and got burned. And please explain to me why an ISP would give a flying rat's ass about some game company's made up, self governed laws? Should the police also arrest you because you are breaking my own made up laws against wearing fleabag clothes?

the only thing I got from all this is youwere dumb enough to pay 400 dollars for an account..... that you didnt get..... lesson well learned ehh? =D

barny3
03-05-2010, 02:38
I for one think, banned accounts should be made public information, at one point it was, and the community I'm sure enjoyed the show like some medevil european gallos hanging or head lobbing. I think the community needs to see the work of the GM. Nobody takes AV's words to hold any sort of contnet.
WE wont proof, not promisses

Displaying the corpses of criminals was an excellent way to keep the public from committing crimes, as the average citizen could see the horrible punishment for crimes and would know that the laws were being enforced.

Displaying the corpses of wrongfully executed citizens or advertising that you have jailed a large number of innocent people for 3 days does little but cause unrest.

Can you see why implementing this would be bad for a kingdom that has no clear laws, rarely enforces it's only defined laws, and relies on the opinions of law enforcement officials to be judge and sentence "criminals" would be a bad idea?

stony23
03-05-2010, 07:58
You really make me laugh. If you knew anything about paypal they do not interfer when it comes to intangible items. I have lost 400 dollars due to this because I purchased an AOC account and got burned. And please explain to me why an ISP would give a flying rat's ass about some game company's made up, self governed laws? Should the police also arrest you because you are breaking my own made up laws against wearing fleabag clothes?

lol youre stupid, first of all, everything you wrote had nothing to do with my statement that breach of contract is indeed a crime in most countries in the world. and im laughing my ass off at all you stupid kids thinking that breach of contract isnt against the law...and now you all are trying to make up some stories as an excuse for your ridiculous statements lol.

and you said it yourself, they give out your personal information in the case of you breaking a law. (as mentioned in the user agreement)

btw lol at you losing 400 bucks for an aoc account

Dr Fuenke
03-06-2010, 15:26
lol youre stupid, first of all, everything you wrote had nothing to do with my statement that breach of contract is indeed a crime in most countries in the world. and im laughing my ass off at all you stupid kids thinking that breach of contract isnt against the law...and now you all are trying to make up some stories as an excuse for your ridiculous statements lol.

and you said it yourself, they give out your personal information in the case of you breaking a law. (as mentioned in the user agreement)

btw lol at you losing 400 bucks for an aoc account


You must be 16 years old max. You know absolutely nothing about law, at all. I'll give you an example, my company does websites for businesses, a business refused to pay extra for the flash animation as was stated in the contract due to "confusion", had to take it to court and spend months to get our money. So just because it is in a contract doesn't make paypal give a flying rat's dick.

VLx
03-06-2010, 15:46
When are you going to stop banning people for bugs in your game. Like when Someone recalls when afk and they are ported inside the tower next to the bindstone cause the game is all buggy. And they have no clue they are there cause they are afk and then you ban them.

Dr Fuenke
03-06-2010, 19:07
Someone was banned for falling through the world (and drowning) This happened to me once when I was riding, got a GM to port me, but he was unable to get my mount "we do not refund lost items" Didn't become lost until Argwont killed it :( Player side tracking/reporting of your position is crazy btw, so easy to create all the teleport hacks.

cr8on
03-07-2010, 02:42
im a new player to the game and i have had all kinds of ppl telling me that AFK grinding of stats is OK in the open world not inside npc cities. then i also have ppl telling me that if you do that and get caught you get banned. there is too much misinformation out there for new players and i havent been able to find anything about this subject so far on the forums. *still looking* would be nice if some folx would explain what is actually going on with AV and its position on AFK grinding. im at a loss.

SwiftWolf
03-07-2010, 03:32
im a new player to the game and i have had all kinds of ppl telling me that AFK grinding of stats is OK in the open world not inside npc cities. then i also have ppl telling me that if you do that and get caught you get banned. there is too much misinformation out there for new players and i havent been able to find anything about this subject so far on the forums. *still looking* would be nice if some folx would explain what is actually going on with AV and its position on AFK grinding. im at a loss.


AFK Macro ANYWHERE = Ban
http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=226068
Directly from Tasos
"We've taken many measures to make macroing unnecessary and we're still at it. As such we're updating our policy on macroing to start with a 24 hour ban for the first offense, a one week ban for the second, a bank wipe, and finally a perma-ban."

stony23
03-07-2010, 04:39
ok well maybe you cant go to jail but still be sued for all your money