Increase melee protections of heavy armour...

[Orolt Lifebring]

Other people have said, i never said one way or the other cos i was unsure. Now i tried a melee spec, and i gotta say... they need to increase it...

I was fighting evaner(mage), and i was doing everything fine except when i managed to get into melee range(my supposed strong point) i got raped all over again by him. He had exactly the same protections on melee than i(around 10.4), but since he has higher melee skill, he pretty much raped me.

I mean, does it even make sense that a guy in bone(i think he wasn't even using stoneskin) has the same melee protections as a guy in plate??? You did a great work with the specs, people that use melee ARE ABLE to get into melee without getting wtfpwned if they play right, now make it so that when they get into melee, it is actually their strongpoint.

I would suggest increasing them by 75%.

[OhTenER]

:bang::bang:

[Avan]

I agree, it needs a bigger boost. Hybrids shouldn't be that strong in melee, they're supposed to be jack of all trades, not master of all trades.

[blob]

They need to increase melee protections on specialization that blocks elemental magic only, not armour.

[Banka plixz]

Nah not really...destroyer in heavy gear is awesome

[Orolt Lifebring]

They need to increase melee protections on specialization that blocks elemental magic only, not armour.

Perhaps.

Nah not really...destroyer in heavy gear is awesome

When you say heavy you mean really heavy melee only or you talking about a light scale set in which you also use archery???

Cos i'm referring to pure melee. I had 50 archery encumbrance, no chance of using archery effectively, and destroyer against a guy which is meleeing you back(therefore not using a staff) won't make a difference.

Perhaps it was my melee skill... but the protections were definately the same.

I mean, i did really well to get into melee almost at full health, and evaner can tell, but if a melee player melees a mage and the mage wins... there's something wrong :P Cos the whole purpose of the melee player was to get into melee range, and if then he loses when he's finally reached his purpose... it isn't working.

If my melee skill was the same i would have been tied with evaner on that, but then again, he had all his magic apart from that.

If you think so banka, i challenge you to get me to half using really heavy armour.

[Banka plixz]

Perhaps.



When you say heavy you mean really heavy melee only or you talking about a light scale set in which you also use archery???

Cos i'm referring to pure melee. I had 50 archery encumbrance, no chance of using archery effectively, and destroyer against a guy which is meleeing you back(therefore not using a staff) won't make a difference.

Perhaps it was my melee skill... but the protections were definately the same.

I mean, i did really well to get into melee almost at full health, and evaner can tell, but if a melee player melees a mage and the mage wins... there's something wrong :P Cos the whole purpose of the melee player was to get into melee range, and if then he loses when he's finally reached his purpose... it isn't working.

If my melee skill was the same i would have been tied with evaner on that, but then again, he had all his magic apart from that.

If you think so banka, i challenge you to get me to half using really heavy armour.

Mr orolt, I played against evaner myself in 10 duels, ended with 6-4 to me, used a few pieces of full plate & plate & scale mix (he used teh mage spec)
but yeah, I accept your challenge, im currently bound in angfrost
mount is the key to win as a destroyer, its not necessary though, but helps a lot

[Mango]

so everyone without a full plate is fucked up ?

INcrease this, increase that is not the answer imho.

A statcap would be a good answer imho. (350 under the current system). Choose your focus with stats and give stagain *10. If you want max dmg while casting you have to either give up melee dmg or life. (min stat = starter value). worked great in uo, would work here as well.

No it´s not inteded to turn this thread in another statgain disussion, just want to point out, that this game is more and more turning into an itembased game, due to "increase this and that"... which is not needed or good imo.

[Banka plixz]

so everyone without a full plate is fucked up ?

INcrease this, increase that is not the answer imho.

A statcap would be a good answer imho. (350 under the current system). Choose your focus with stats and give stagain *10. If you want max dmg while casting you have to either give up melee dmg or life. (min stat = starter value). worked great in uo, would work here as well.

No it´s not inteded to turn this thread in another statgain disussion, just want to point out, that this game is more and more turning into an itembased game, due to "increase this and that"... which is not needed or good imo.

Risk vs reward my friend. :p

[Mango]

Risk vs reward my friend. :p

yeah, you are right to a point. but you are, like most of the older players, are at a point where items are available in notime. i don´t think that advantage should be too great, but that´s just me.

i liked the original idea better and a statcap would close down a lot of discussions and balancing issues in one step.

[Banka plixz]

yeah, you are right to a point. but you are, like most of the older players, are at a point where items are available in notime. i don´t think that advantage should be too great, but that´s just me.

i liked the original idea better and a statcap would close down a lot of discussions and balancing issues in one step.

im only 3 months old my friend...

only got about 50k gold or so :p which you can get in about 3-4 hours

[sweet_tooth]

They need a bit more of an increase then the 25% they added, maybe anohter 25% to scale+ seeing as scale/plate didn't even get phys prots buffed. If you go much more than that, feathered full plate helms with a few pieces of plate/scale on a hybrid char who can still casts buffs will become rly OP. Adding it to destroyer/indestructable might be the better route so that casters stay as is when buffed with feather armor and what not, the people without magic get a bit more melee advantage.

[SadMaz]

i m still not sure about this orolt,i m debating and keep changing specs as well BUT definetelly sommit is working cuz u made the mage go in melee maybe it is ur fault (and mine as well) but thats what a melee character wanted ...to avoid the magic spam and rape in melee(cuz he is better and has higher skill?)


what i would like to see is same level armors price-wise i dont mind if some1 in bone can rape me in melee cuz he is better but lower the cost of my armor so i can keep trying with that spec.till then i ll be using my buffs and use my bow n melee with some magic

[RabicanShiver]

yet another reason Im not so keen on this game anymore. Armor should make a HUGE difference against receiving damage. Bone armor should be very minimal protection, or very noticeable handicap against magery. Right now theres almost no downside to even wearing bone for a mage.

Mages should either robe it, or people wearing plate/ scale/ dragon etc. should get a much bigger protection against damage.

[frankaslt]

Problem is not only in the armor but in specialisation itself. It gives only advantage against staff wielding user, but doesn't make ur melee better over all ( as it should). That specialisation should increase over all melee dmg and defences. As of now if u wana be pure meele, best thing is to rool around in scale/plate with buffs, you will pwn anyone who is specialised as destoyer or indestructible.

These specialisations we have now are fail, i guess they r planning to improve them.. on next EXPANSION.

[SadMaz]

Problem is not only in the armor but in specialisation itself. It gives only advantage against staff wielding user, but doesn't make ur melee better over all ( as it should). That specialisation should increase over all melee dmg and defences. As of now if u wana be pure meele, best thing is to rool around in scale/plate with buffs, you will pwn anyone who is specialised as destoyer or indestructible.

i dont think every1 agrees with that tho,for me the specialisation works fine u make the mage go melee,as orolt said in his example he went full health at melee with evaner,then he lost becuz of skill (both player's and stat,mastery-wise).

still armor costs and each armor stats is what needs balance

[Kain119]

They need to put something into the game that stops people who want to play as mages from accessing the extra damage from skills like weapon mastery and sharpshooter etc. If we as melee/acher spec (with destroyer and the lot) can't access the strongest attacks in the game, why should someone with the strongest attacks in the game have access to every skill. It makes no sense.

[SadMaz]

They need to put something into the game that stops people who want to play as mages from accessing the extra damage from skills like weapon mastery and sharpshooter etc. If we as melee/acher spec (with destroyer and the lot) can't access the strongest attacks in the game, why should someone with the strongest attacks in the game have access to every skill. It makes no sense.

thats right i dont understand either how AV gives us as mage specialisations jump shootin,speed,radius n dmg and as melee n archery it blocks ur magic....can only hope that this is just the small part of the specialisations as they said on spotlights,but i hope the more n better comes faster than expansion to expansion.

[DarkRider89]

Why does everyone insist that 1v1 is the way to determine whether the game is balanced or not? The mage has such high resists because of his buffs. Maybe you should go find a friend with spell chanting and get some buffs from him. Then you'll have higher prots than the mage does.



Stop QQing because you got beat in a 1v1 duel, please...:bang:

[rainbow-rainbow]

I think people believe stoneskin is crazy OP. It only adds 2.5 protection at lvl 75. Not a game breaker by any means.

[rainbow-rainbow]

They need to put something into the game that stops people who want to play as mages from accessing the extra damage from skills like weapon mastery and sharpshooter etc. If we as melee/acher spec (with destroyer and the lot) can't access the strongest attacks in the game, why should someone with the strongest attacks in the game have access to every skill. It makes no sense.

you're an idiot. again everybody just wants an I WIN button that nobody else can use.

[Abudabi King]

There is no mage\archer\mele... this is not WoW... if you are an idiot who want to run around with 2hander and pwn everyone... DF is not for you.

there are different weapons, and the MEANING OF PVP is to choose the right weapon at the right moment of the fight. And those who use all weapons smart - succeed... those who want 1 for every situation - plain idiots.

[Karac]

Adding it to destroyer/indestructable might be the better route so that casters stay as is when buffed with feather armor and what not, the people without magic get a bit more melee advantage.
This.

[Orolt Lifebring]

Why does everyone insist that 1v1 is the way to determine whether the game is balanced or not? The mage has such high resists because of his buffs. Maybe you should go find a friend with spell chanting and get some buffs from him. Then you'll have higher prots than the mage does.



Stop QQing because you got beat in a 1v1 duel, please...:bang:

I agree and evaner himself told me in a group fight this build would be pretty good since even tho i can't do much dps, it's survivability is incredible and with a dps friend it can do good things, or so we guessed. But still i find ridiculous the fact that plate has the same melee protections as bone

I think people believe stoneskin is crazy OP. It only adds 2.5 protection at lvl 75. Not a game breaker by any means.

Nah, it's not because of stoneskin, it's the actual armour protections. As i said, i'm unsure if evaner was even using stoneskin.

There is no mage\archer\mele... this is not WoW... if you are an idiot who want to run around with 2hander and pwn everyone... DF is not for you.

there are different weapons, and the MEANING OF PVP is to choose the right weapon at the right moment of the fight. And those who use all weapons smart - succeed... those who want 1 for every situation - plain idiots.

Hello Mr. Stupid Fuck. If i go into armour, which isn't even the heaviest in the game(full plate/plate mix), which provides me with 100 magic encumbrance and 50 archery encumbrance, what other weapon am i supposed to use other than melee??? The laugh-maker when i hit them for 15???

And i wasn't using 2handed, i was using 1handed mainly. Tried 2handed also to see if that worked better, but no chance. Tried 1handed to get close and 2handed on melee range, no chance either(would have had a chance if i had same melee skill and i got as much hits as evaner did, but still the protections were the same).

So what you're saying is basically that heavy armour shouldn't be used??

[xpiher]

Problem is not only in the armor but in specialisation itself. It gives only advantage against staff wielding user, but doesn't make ur melee better over all ( as it should). That specialisation should increase over all melee dmg and defences. As of now if u wana be pure meele, best thing is to rool around in scale/plate with buffs, you will pwn anyone who is specialised as destoyer or indestructible.

FP+ = win

These specialisations we have now are fail, i guess they r planning to improve them.. on next EXPANSION.

No, the specializations are working as intended. FP+ and destoryer spec = own anyone that isn't in FP+. All the specialization is meant to be is a counter to magic, and it works wonderfully for that. Maybe you both are wearing plate, or pre-patch fp?

Plate/bone or scale/bone mixes are the archery/melee armor and battle mage utility armor. Battle mage armor is either full bone, or bone scale mix with feather enchantment.

[Orolt Lifebring]

FP+ = win



No, the specializations are working as intended. FP+ and destoryer spec = own anyone that isn't in FP+. All the specialization is meant to be is a counter to magic, and it works wonderfully for that. Maybe you both are wearing plate, or pre-patch fp?

Plate/bone or scale/bone mixes are the archery/melee armor and battle mage utility armor. Battle mage armor is either full bone, or bone scale mix with feather enchantment.

Hmm i guess i gotta try with a fully new crafted full plate set. Since they increase protections on 2 rounds i really don't know whether my pieces are of the first or the second increase... i was also using some plate.

Anyway full plate is so expensive... but i guess i'll give it a try before coming to further conclusions...

I'm on indestructible spec btw.

And what i'm trying to play is a full melee playstyle. I know it's not supposed to work wonderfully for everything, but AT LEAST IN MELEE it should work, since it is a melee specialisation >.<

[Karac]

I agree and evaner himself told me in a group fight this build would be pretty good since even tho i can't do much dps, it's survivability is incredible and with a dps friend it can do good things, or so we guessed.
It is VERY good (of course if you have a Full Plate set, even better with a q3-q4 feather enchant). And I disagree on Eva on this point, as a Destroyer you will deal and absurd amount of damage (especially on a mount) and if you're good at sticking to someone's back, you'll negate his chance to heal pretty much.
It is definitively not a spec for a soloer, however, and Aventurine should allow more option to meelers as well as giving some love to archery (Mage Killer is quite bad, and they could add the 5th strike critical hit also for melee weapons as a guy said on this forum).

[Shir1115]

those drop-FP should serve your purpose too right? or are they considerably weaker than crafted?
cause they are rather easy to obtain thus making the whole "risk vs reward"-point not that much an issue.

[Darkbone]

Personally, i do think it's fine as it is.

After all a melee in heavy armor (plate+scale, preferably full plate) does have some VERY nice magic protections. A mage does not.

And a melee spec gives you even more advantages, like doing more damage against someone with a staff out (EVERYONE takes his staff out to heal, EVEN melees) or having even MORE magic protections.

All this is not accessible to a mage in bone. Sure, he has his buffs and can essentially reach the same melee protections as you if you wear low-tier armor. But hey, YOU are the one preferring melee. You can easily force a mage to fight at your conditions, he is on YOUR turf. Beat him then.

And after all, as soon as you wear Full Plate or better you even do have an melee protection advantage.

If AV would increase the physical protections on scale/plate they would unbalance this game in favor of the melees over the mages.

The only thing that I think would be adequate is increasing the accessibility of selentine (and selentine only) by making it a rare drop from mining iron. Like a 50/50 chance that you get a selentine ore instead of a gem. That would help melees getting their full plate parts a bit easier. And r50 weps.

Would suffice in my opinion. Screwing with the already fragile balance of the game is not something that should be done for every little problem that shows up. Increasing acessibility of better gear (if only slightly) is a way better option to increase the balance even more, IMHO.

[Orolt Lifebring]

Personally, i do think it's fine as it is.

After all a melee in heavy armor (plate+scale, preferably full plate) does have some VERY nice magic protections. A mage does not.

And a melee spec gives you even more advantages, like doing more damage against someone with a staff out (EVERYONE takes his staff out to heal, EVEN melees) or having even MORE magic protections.

All this is not accessible to a mage in bone. Sure, he has his buffs and can essentially reach the same melee protections as you if you wear low-tier armor. But hey, YOU are the one preferring melee. You can easily force a mage to fight at your conditions, he is on YOUR turf. Beat him then.

And after all, as soon as you wear Full Plate or better you even do have an melee protection advantage.

If AV would increase the physical protections on scale/plate they would unbalance this game in favor of the melees over the mages.

The only thing that I think would be adequate is increasing the accessibility of selentine (and selentine only) by making it a rare drop from mining iron. Like a 50/50 chance that you get a selentine ore instead of a gem. That would help melees getting their full plate parts a bit easier. And r50 weps.

Would suffice in my opinion. Screwing with the already fragile balance of the game is not something that should be done for every little problem that shows up. Increasing acessibility of better gear (if only slightly) is a way better option to increase the balance even more, IMHO.

You seem quite reasonable, and i kind of agree with your thinking. It's true and i hadn't take that into account that if you've chosen a melee spec, it's because you are good at it(perhaps that's my problem xD, nah i don't think i'm that bad at melee, joke :P). And yes, it seems if you wear full plate or more you do have an advantage.

However, i've liked the ideas of some people around here of putting it into the indestructible spec. +5 in all magic protections(like it is now), and perhaps +2-3 in all physical protections. I don't think that would be a gamebreaker, since the specs right now aren't what make a mage from a meleer different(a meleer can have no melee spec and still be a meleer), it's the armour that does.

[Gortha]

Another Soultion would be give, to give only full metal sets
(even mixed + scale plate + xyz) a Physical-Resist boost.

The Set-Physical-Protection-Boost is lost when a light armor part ist mixed in.
:idea:

[nizzie]

Another Soultion would be give, to give only full metal sets
(even mixed + scale plate + xyz) a Physical-Resist boost.

The Set-Physical-Protection-Boost is lost when a light armor part ist mixed in.
:idea:

Very good idea.

[Urme the Legend]

Another Soultion would be give, to give only full metal sets
(even mixed + scale plate + xyz) a Physical-Resist boost.

The Set-Physical-Protection-Boost is lost when a light armor part ist mixed in.
:idea:

I like it :) Get to work AV!

[blob]

Another Soultion would be give, to give only full metal sets
(even mixed + scale plate + xyz) a Physical-Resist boost.

The Set-Physical-Protection-Boost is lost when a light armor part ist mixed in.
:idea:

<signed>

[xpiher]

Personally, i do think it's fine as it is.

After all a melee in heavy armor (plate+scale, preferably full plate) does have some VERY nice magic protections. A mage does not.

And a melee spec gives you even more advantages, like doing more damage against someone with a staff out (EVERYONE takes his staff out to heal, EVEN melees) or having even MORE magic protections.

All this is not accessible to a mage in bone. Sure, he has his buffs and can essentially reach the same melee protections as you if you wear low-tier armor. But hey, YOU are the one preferring melee. You can easily force a mage to fight at your conditions, he is on YOUR turf. Beat him then.

And after all, as soon as you wear Full Plate or better you even do have an melee protection advantage.

If AV would increase the physical protections on scale/plate they would unbalance this game in favor of the melees over the mages.

The only thing that I think would be adequate is increasing the accessibility of selentine (and selentine only) by making it a rare drop from mining iron. Like a 50/50 chance that you get a selentine ore instead of a gem. That would help melees getting their full plate parts a bit easier. And r50 weps.

Would suffice in my opinion. Screwing with the already fragile balance of the game is not something that should be done for every little problem that shows up. Increasing acessibility of better gear (if only slightly) is a way better option to increase the balance even more, IMHO.

I agree 100%. Selentine is the probably the hardest ore to get in the game

[PanCakeBunny]

I agree 100%. Selentine is the probably the hardest ore to get in the game

And veilron.