Analyzing FPS Melee: Mount & Blade vs Rakion

[Phiendish1]

This is my personal summarization and also how I feel I'd "like" combat to work in DF based on my experiences in these games, feel free to disagree but please offer your reasoning in response

ok, I've now put a decent amount of playtime into Rakion to make some solid observations.

I've decided there's more player skill involved in playing Rakion than to play Mount & Blade, although both are fun.

Mount & Blade-

Pros:
*Manual Blocking (best on the setting you have to even control the direction you block)
*Multiple Hit boxes (at least for projectiles)
*Ability to mount a horse, and kill a horse someones mounted on
*Manual aiming (choosing the direction you attack from)
*Object Collision
*Mounted Charge with joust, more speed, more damage

Cons:
*Lacks depth, you can Attack from the Left, Right, Above, Stab, Charge with a Lance, or throw/shoot. No specials, no combos.
*Blocking can be repetitive and too easy, your shield can break but you can still block melee attacks with a weapon, seems a bit overpowered.
*Not online vs other players
*No magic
*Skills are limited and not terribly motivating
*No healing abilities

Overview:
Several of the Pro's I felt were good about Mount & Blade have already been stated they will not be in game I.E. multiple hit boxes and manual blocking, some of hte better aspects were the Weapon attack aiming, Ranged Aiming, and mounted charge

RAKIO-

Pros:
*Manual Blocking
*Key Combinations to perform certain combos (this is debatable to those people who cry about anything they can relate to "twitch" ability, i found it to be a plus)
*Manual Aiming (timing your attack right at least, trying to hit the opponent where they cannot guard)
*GRABS (difficult to pull off, definately a plus, when you miss you are left very vulnerable so it balances out due to the difficulty to successfuly grab)
*Ranged seemed to be implemented reasonably
*Object Collision

Cons:
*Classes (doesn't completely mess it up but I'll hit this in the overview)
*LAG issues, people exploit it, many of your attacks register to you but do not actually hit the char, you have to observe your screen for the hit counter(this is mostly a flaw in their networking designi believe)
*Limited abilities/Skill
*Chaos Mode (after X kills you can turn into a monster type thing that can't be grabbed, cannot be knocked down, and has significant damage increase)
*No healing abilities (aside from picking up a health capsule)
*"Cells" you can buy and summon to help you, but they just pop up outta nowhere, are not commandable, and basically only good as a temporary distraction
*No mounts
*Lack of item diversity (not that i want an item based game but you only can change your weapon type by using a different class)

Overview:
This isn't necessarily a problem for rakion, but the class thing is clearly limiting and there is no diversity among the classes aside from putting points you earn from leveling into attack speed/movement/armor/attack strenghts etc... everyone of a single class has the same attacks. What I would love to see in DF are some abilities that require a certain key combination (assuming WASD) "W,W, Attack" etc... I would also love to see grabs if implemented properly i think this would be great and a failed grab should definately leave you vulnerable such as in rakion. It is very limited in your character development, you just pick a class thats good for oyu and the type of game mode you wanna play and basically are like most other of your classes with minor differences but its rare to be VERY unique and succesful. Even though DF will not have manual blocking, one thing I did find nice about Rakion is if your oponent is blocking you can do d a key combo that is unblockable and catch them off guard, this also will leave you vulnerable if they read you and avoid your attack and give them a chance to combo/special/grab you.



Final Word-

Basically, Mount and Blade has been spoken for before on its pros, but i believe combat would be too slow/dull/repetetive if it was exactly like mount and blade but there are definately positive aspects to the combat system there. Rakion I was far more entertained by simply because theres more variety, and being able to do certain key combo's/strategies can really make you stand out from a less skilled player of the same class, the lag tho can be brutal and you can suck an entire game because you think you're hitting other players but oyu're not. If the key combo strategy could be implemented into DF along with basic abilities that dont' require the "twitch" in a way that was not imbalanced, I think this would add an additional fun factor to DF, also grabs, if implemented properly would rock. My own personal hope is that there is some way to do specific counterattacks if you read your opponents strategy/tactics, sort of like Dead or Alive for xbox, a miss read and you get hit in the face, but a succesful read and you get to hit them.

At this point I'm getting more and more excited to see how darkfall handles the FPS type of Melee combat, and also how the different races perform. For the meantime I'll be playing Rakion over Mount and Blade because its pretty fun and hey, IT"S FREE
:D :D

[Morcalivan7]

No to key combos, this isn't a console game. Leave the button mashing to the kiddies.

[iamacloud]

No to key combos, this isn't a console game. Leave the button mashing to the kiddies.


Agreed. Hitting a few keys the same way every time is hardly a measure of skill. Expecially since macros will probably make the key combination pointless anyways.

DFO will not become repetitive and boring like M&B..there is no comparison..considering the 10k other people on the server compared to 1.

Manual blocking and hitboxes would be awesome, but the devs have stated that the amount of bandwidth this would consume would not make it worth it, and I personally believe it would open up possibility for cheats/hacks aka headshot, headshot, headshot, headshot, headshot.

[Phiendish1]

Agreed. Hitting a few keys the same way every time is hardly a measure of skill. Expecially since macros will probably make the key combination pointless anyways.

It takes more timing to use a key combination and makes you set your character up to actually be able to flow into the manuever. And you say thats skilless, but just putting a macro which handles all that is more skill.... you lost me... I didn't say every skill be key combos but it wouldn't hurt for certain attacks to be that way.

[Ramses]

Well your prediction came true, people are already complaining about adding any more "twitch" based things to the game. Key combos would take more skill than just pressing a button for a skill, especially if there were many key combos and warriors had to memorize them. Of course, I don't think this will be in Darkfall--though I would like it, a lot of people already worrying about their first PvP fights because of lack of skill in FPS's don't want to make it anymore "twitch" based. Hopefully the no manual blocking thing will be alleviated with dodging being a little easier than in other games (and hopefully not a percent chance skill like the blocking might be). You can say a system is bad because someone might cheat it--every system can be exploited, you have to ignore that fact to make a fun system, and try your best to keep cheaters out.

Anyways, we'll have to wait and see how combat ends up feeling--any system can be fun if done well.

[Asmodeus]

i agree with most everything except key combos. Don't get me wrong, i like the idea of them myself, though they become obsolete with macros. Theres is no point to even implementing a combo into a game where you have to push 3 different buttons at a certain time to pull off the combo, when you can just script it to one key anyways...

[Galdred]

Mount & Blade-

Cons:
*Lacks depth, you can Attack from the Left, Right, Above, Stab, Charge with a Lance, or throw/shoot. No specials, no combos.
*Blocking can be repetitive and too easy, your shield can break but you can still block melee attacks with a weapon, seems a bit overpowered.
*Not online vs other players
*No magic
*Skills are limited and not terribly motivating
*No healing abilities


Erm, I can hardly agree on most of the cons:
magic makes melee fighting gimped, so not having magic there is definitely a pro IMO.
The same goes for healing: iI don't see how being able to heal after having screwed up makes for a more skill based or fun experience.
But there is no denying that auto blocking and the skills selected are boring indeed.

about the special powers, I don't know, if there are too many of them, they will turn a twitch based game into an EQ clone... I would prefer a system where you have more control over the attack direction and the body part targeted over one with special attacks that make no sense.

The lack of multiplayer makes it difficult to evaluate the twitch factor in MnB though, but it would be very reduced without manual blocking indeed.
I don't remember it that well, but I think Severance was better than MnB for foot combat.

[Angry-Khan]

I have no experience of mount & blade and had never heard of it until i joined there forums so i wont speak on it. Rakion however you present alot of misconceptions 1) the only class left vulnerable after a missed grip is the ninja 2) there are some extreme balance issues in the game, the swordsman and ninja(non-chaos) need some buffs imo, and jumping attacks for blacksmith and swordmen need to be nerfed, and grips need to be buffed(letting someone else get a free shot on you just to grip someone isnt worth it).

That said i think the only thing that will be the same is the fps factor. In DFO there will be skills, not combos. Maybe mage and archer combat will be comparable but certainly not any others. Also i see skills like backstab being grabby, since backstab would be positional anyways it would be very likely you grab the person then ram your dagger into their back, much like the archer grip. I think there will be similar skills, there will probably be a whirlwind attack similar to the blacksmiths power attack or charge up skills like the blacksmiths hammer attack. There will probably be charge stabs like the melee classes or some kind of way for melees to close in on ranged or fleeing people. There might be some rogue or illusionist skills similar to the ninjas where the user dissapears and reappears behind the attacker and hits them but I doubt there will be combos. If theyre are I personally hope that the number of combos you can do increase with weapon skill and that they are not a large part of combat (similar to how combat skill progression worked on the baldurs gate series for consoles). Most of us don’t want mash buttons all day, but I think giving combos a stunlock kind of capability like the ninjas might be good because im more than sure hitting someone in dfo will interrupt them because if not there would be no reason to use a fast weapon against a caster. You might as well do some gigantic power attack while theyre sitting and casting spells.

[Phiendish1]

Erm, I can hardly agree on most of the cons:
magic makes melee fighting gimped, so not having magic there is definitely a pro IMO.
The same goes for healing: iI don't see how being able to heal after having screwed up makes for a more skill based or fun experience.
But there is no denying that auto blocking and the skills selected are boring indeed.

Magic is a big part of Medieval MMORPGS's and in a FPS environment works like a ranged character, they still have to aim and make contact with their spells/abilities and time their casting based on the spells cast time and delay.

Also healing is gimp huh? I don't think you're understanding the use for healing, kind of a weak tunnel vision point of view to think healing is just for fixing a screwup. theres no healing in M&B during battle period, if Marnid or whatever his name is starts to get ganked I couldn't heal him so even tho its not online I would consider my group of fighters a team, and theres little we coudl do to support eachother in M&B besides try and gank the people trying to gank someone else. In an MMORPG a big part of teamwork is healing and strategically balancing your offense and defense to your team alive and maintain an advantage, if someones getting attacked by 4 guys then its not him necessarily "messing up" and needing to gimp and heal, he probably won't be able to get a heal off on himself, now if he had a partner that was able to heal him thats not gimp but its teamwork, support, if there's no healing that will remove a lot of strategy/skill from group fights.

[Angry-Khan]

Giving anyone the ability to heal excessively is bad(no timers on pots plate wearers throwing out heals as much as a caster etc) but making healing a possible area to persue is by no means unskilled. It makes fights much longer and interesting. Now there are rogues who sneak around to cut off the enemy melees lifeforce. Archers to pick them off or trap the area so on and so forth. Having no healers would mean just a bunch of people killing each other and battles wouldnt last long. Its comparable to a game of ping pong where the two players are unskilled and cant ever return the serve. They would both get tired of running to get the balls (corpse runs) and it becomes broing fast. There are also alot of games where its necesairy to have pots like diablo 2 since it is impossible to not get hit as a melee. In fact i think that pots should function more like d2 or like in tenchu so they arent a immediate gain. Eaither make them heal over time and interrupt that hot when they get hit or make potions have a "cast time".

[Phiendish1]

I have no experience of mount & blade and had never heard of it until i joined there forums so i wont speak on it. Rakion however you present alot of misconceptions 1) the only class left vulnerable after a missed grip is the ninja 2) there are some extreme balance issues in the game, the swordsman and ninja(non-chaos) need some buffs imo, and jumping attacks for blacksmith and swordmen need to be nerfed, and grips need to be buffed(letting someone else get a free shot on you just to grip someone isnt worth it).

misconceptions?

you said "1) the only class left vulnerable after a missed grip is the ninja"

You're completely wrong, every class has a delay after their "invulnerable" attack that is performed if you miss a grip, and that delay is enough to grip them. I have a swordsman, a blacksmith, and a ninja. I'm able to grip any class after they attempt and miss a grip, you just have to know the timing and when you can approach without being hit by the last motions of their "invuln" attack. I grip blacksmiths all the time when they miss, archers and swordsman don't try and grip nearly as much but when they do they're still vulnerable so I dunno where YOU got that misconception, but check the rakion website, character controls, and review the delays for invuln attack, you'll see that the website even supports my explanation. this could jsut be a factor of skill where I've worked more on improving my grips and you're not familiar with how to grip those classes, but don't tell me its a misconception because there are the delay numbers on the site to back it up and i do it any class that attempts and misses a grip everytime i play.

As for balance, there are some minor things needed but all in all, if you're skilled with your char it should be a very even fight, the worst imbalance i've seen is a lagging mage or archer who you think you're hitting but can never hit them and they beat the crap out of you since you have no idea where their char REALLY is, the classes are good if used right, the jumping attacks are only really good for golem, you can see a jump attack coming from a mile away if its aimed at your character and not a golem, so dodge it and then special or combo them.

[Galdred]

Magic is a big part of Medieval MMORPGS's and in a FPS environment works like a ranged character, they still have to aim and make contact with their spells/abilities and time their casting based on the spells cast time and delay.

Also healing is gimp huh? I don't think you're understanding the use for healing, kind of a weak tunnel vision point of view to think healing is just for fixing a screwup. theres no healing in M&B during battle period, if Marnid or whatever his name is starts to get ganked I couldn't heal him so even tho its not online I would consider my group of fighters a team, and theres little we coudl do to support eachother in M&B besides try and gank the people trying to gank someone else. In an MMORPG a big part of teamwork is healing and strategically balancing your offense and defense to your team alive and maintain an advantage, if someones getting attacked by 4 guys then its not him necessarily "messing up" and needing to gimp and heal, he probably won't be able to get a heal off on himself, now if he had a partner that was able to heal him thats not gimp but its teamwork, support, if there's no healing that will remove a lot of strategy/skill from group fights.

Lol, there is no healing irl on the battlefield, that does not make support and tactics non existent in real warfare, nor does it make it a gankfest.
Or maybe do you believe medics actually heal people directly on the battlefield?
If I'd need people to throw fireballs, I would just stick with WW2 online, mobile artillery does most of the caster job, I just don't get what it adds to a medieval setting.
Support is avoiding your teamate being hit in the first place.It's not possible in MnB because their poor IA makes communication with them impossible ^^
I understand the use of healing very well, thanks:
Healing is what made every MMORPG tactics be to focus fire on one target per group: they are far from being the games requiring the highest tactical sense...
Tactics is supposed about flanking, protecting weaker units, not chosing dropping targets one by one.
So please stop talking about weak tunnel vision point of view when your main and only argument is that healing and magic are there in every MMORPG.

[Phiendish1]

Lol, there is no healing irl on the battlefield, that does not make support and tactics non existent in real warfare, nor does it make it a gankfest.
Or maybe do you believe medics actually heal people directly on the battlefield?
If I'd need people to throw fireballs, I would just stick with WW2 online, mobile artillery does most of the caster job, I just don't get what it adds to a medieval setting.
Support is avoiding your teamate being hit in the first place.It's not possible in MnB because their poor IA makes communication with them impossible ^^
I understand the use of healing very well, thanks:
Healing is what made every MMORPG tactics be to focus fire on one target per group: they are far from being the games requiring the highest tactical sense...
Tactics is supposed about flanking, protecting weaker units, not chosing dropping targets one by one.
So please stop talking about weak tunnel vision point of view when your main and only argument is that healing and magic are there in every MMORPG.

I can't argue with a retard so I'll just lol at you

[Galdred]

don't start threads when you can't argue, donk.

[Phiendish1]

don't start threads when you can't argue, donk.

If the game were as real as you say. It would be boring.

While there is some realism, this is called FANTASY, we're not gonna have medics that give you surgery and then your character is healed 3 months later.

Look up the word fantasy, then argue with me some more.

[Atnas]

You can't compare M&B and Rakion when the pros and cons are based on your opnion only.

I want the combat to be more M&B, no key combos. More one swings in a direction, instead.

[Galdred]

If the game were as real as you say. It would be boring.

While there is some realism, this is called FANTASY, we're not gonna have medics that give you surgery and then your character is healed 3 months later.

Look up the word fantasy, then argue with me some more.
In case you had not noticed it, Mount and Blade is not supposed to have FANTASAY so counting it as a con would be like saying that Darkfall will suck because there is no spaceship in it.
In case you didn't notice, you can heal pretty fast in MnB outside combat...

It's not because we have to make some compromise with gameplay that it is needed to have instant heal and fireball in every game.

While on the other hand, in your so called analysis, you have overlooked the main imbalance in MnB which is that ranged combat completely wftpwn melee.
please reroll irl

[Phiendish1]

In case you had not noticed it, Mount and Blade is not supposed to have FANTASAY so counting it as a con would be like saying that Darkfall will suck because there is no spaceship in it.
In case you didn't notice, you can heal pretty fast in MnB outside combat...

It's not because we have to make some compromise with gameplay that it is needed to have instant heal and fireball in every game.

While on the other hand, in your so called analysis, you have overlooked the main imbalance in MnB which is that ranged combat completely wftpwn melee.
please reroll irl


You're an idiot. I never said instant heal, god i can't argue with a fucking retard sorry. bye.

[Xife]

In case you had not noticed it, Mount and Blade is not supposed to have FANTASAY so counting it as a con would be like saying that Darkfall will suck because there is no spaceship in it.

Took the words outta my mouth...

[Galdred]

You're an idiot. I never said instant heal, god i can't argue with a fucking retard sorry. bye.
ok let's rephrase it with simpler words:
healing doesn't need to happen on the battlefield to cut down the off time : in MnB, it happens between fights, reducing the downtime between fights, which is enough from a gameplay point of view, even though there is no magical rabbit that casts the heal.

Considering the lack of magic, when analyzing a game, you are supposed to evaluate its gameplay, not its theme.
That's why they pay designers and don't just always rely on movie licences.

[Sakin]

The reason M&B has no magic is because it's a medieval combat simulator. Hence the more realistic aspects, such as hit boxes for more damage to certain areas, speed bonuses to damage (obviously, the faster a weapon is going when it hits someone, the more it's going to hurt), and the directional attacks/manual blocking. Magic and healing in the middle of a battle would have no place whatsoever in a game like that.

[Scottc1988]

You seem to be analyzing TPS melee. Also, why bother leaving out the greatest melee combat game of all time, Jedi Outcast?

[Cheezo]

This thread's limbs have already decayed and fallen off.

[shnedit]

This thread's limbs have already decayed and fallen off.

Time to fuck around with the decaying corpse then, eh?

[Agge]

I can set any of my 5 mouse jeys to do any kind of key combination... See my point?

Also, Rakion sucks. It was fun for a short while but has no lasting value at al. Bunny jump spamming is fun and al that, sur I like undreal/gunz etc however I don't think this is the same game type as DF.

If you realy wanna compare it to any game, I'd say Rune would be the closest as far as combat goes.

Mount & Blade has a very intresting combat system, not at al fast paced as your avarge fps but it still requires some skill, and thats just facing NPC's.

Anyways, to be honest I think and I hope DF won't be like anything else I have played. Wich might be hard considering the amount of diffrent games I have played.

Also also, the OP was seriusely TL DR. I'll read up on it later... like maybe tomorow.

[AtanasRikard]

Lol, there is no healing irl on the battlefield, that does not make support and tactics non existent in real warfare, nor does it make it a gankfest.
Or maybe do you believe medics actually heal people directly on the battlefield?
If I'd need people to throw fireballs, I would just stick with WW2 online, mobile artillery does most of the caster job, I just don't get what it adds to a medieval setting.
Support is avoiding your teamate being hit in the first place.It's not possible in MnB because their poor IA makes communication with them impossible ^^
I understand the use of healing very well, thanks:
Healing is what made every MMORPG tactics be to focus fire on one target per group: they are far from being the games requiring the highest tactical sense...
Tactics is supposed about flanking, protecting weaker units, not chosing dropping targets one by one.
So please stop talking about weak tunnel vision point of view when your main and only argument is that healing and magic are there in every MMORPG.

LOL. IRL you don't magically respawn either. Once you are dead... that's it.
There are certain comparisons between a game and RL that shouldn't be made.

Magic, healing, they all add variety to a game. Hopefully, Darkfall will be different in their implementation of these, and by different I mean better.

[Ankh]

Also healing is gimp huh? I don't think you're understanding the use for healing, kind of a weak tunnel vision point of view to think healing is just for fixing a screwup. theres no healing in M&B during battle period, if Marnid or whatever his name is starts to get ganked I couldn't heal him so even tho its not online I would consider my group of fighters a team, and theres little we coudl do to support eachother in M&B besides try and gank the people trying to gank someone else.

I see what you are saying.

You are saying that you fail at Mount & Blade.

[Marrik]

Agreed. Hitting a few keys the same way every time is hardly a measure of skill. Expecially since macros will probably make the key combination pointless anyways.

DFO will not become repetitive and boring like M&B..there is no comparison..considering the 10k other people on the server compared to 1.

Manual blocking and hitboxes would be awesome, but the devs have stated that the amount of bandwidth this would consume would not make it worth it, and I personally believe it would open up possibility for cheats/hacks aka headshot, headshot, headshot, headshot, headshot.

they said that manual blocking is in. they said it was impossible, and then in the next update they said they implemented it and it works fine.

[Cheezo]

they said that manual blocking is in. they said it was impossible, and then in the next update they said they implemented it and it works fine.

Not when he posted that, they didn't.

This thread is two years old, man. Seriously, what the hell? Why?

[Scottc1988]

Not when he posted that, they didn't.

This thread is two years old, man. Seriously, what the hell? Why?
I love dipshits who necro threads :\

[SSguy]

O wow, bad necro lmao.

Sakin, you fail at life.

[Attilius]

This is my personal summarization and also how I feel I'd "like" combat to work in DF based on my experiences in these games, feel free to disagree but please offer your reasoning in response

ok, I've now put a decent amount of playtime into Rakion to make some solid observations.

I've decided there's more player skill involved in playing Rakion than to play Mount & Blade, although both are fun.

Mount & Blade-

Pros:
*Manual Blocking (best on the setting you have to even control the direction you block)
*Multiple Hit boxes (at least for projectiles)
*Ability to mount a horse, and kill a horse someones mounted on
*Manual aiming (choosing the direction you attack from)
*Object Collision
*Mounted Charge with joust, more speed, more damage

Cons:
*Lacks depth, you can Attack from the Left, Right, Above, Stab, Charge with a Lance, or throw/shoot. No specials, no combos.
*Blocking can be repetitive and too easy, your shield can break but you can still block melee attacks with a weapon, seems a bit overpowered.
*Not online vs other players
*No magic
*Skills are limited and not terribly motivating
*No healing abilities

Overview:
Several of the Pro's I felt were good about Mount & Blade have already been stated they will not be in game I.E. multiple hit boxes and manual blocking, some of hte better aspects were the Weapon attack aiming, Ranged Aiming, and mounted charge

RAKIO-

Pros:
*Manual Blocking
*Key Combinations to perform certain combos (this is debatable to those people who cry about anything they can relate to "twitch" ability, i found it to be a plus)
*Manual Aiming (timing your attack right at least, trying to hit the opponent where they cannot guard)
*GRABS (difficult to pull off, definately a plus, when you miss you are left very vulnerable so it balances out due to the difficulty to successfuly grab)
*Ranged seemed to be implemented reasonably
*Object Collision

Cons:
*Classes (doesn't completely mess it up but I'll hit this in the overview)
*LAG issues, people exploit it, many of your attacks register to you but do not actually hit the char, you have to observe your screen for the hit counter(this is mostly a flaw in their networking designi believe)
*Limited abilities/Skill
*Chaos Mode (after X kills you can turn into a monster type thing that can't be grabbed, cannot be knocked down, and has significant damage increase)
*No healing abilities (aside from picking up a health capsule)
*"Cells" you can buy and summon to help you, but they just pop up outta nowhere, are not commandable, and basically only good as a temporary distraction
*No mounts
*Lack of item diversity (not that i want an item based game but you only can change your weapon type by using a different class)

Overview:
This isn't necessarily a problem for rakion, but the class thing is clearly limiting and there is no diversity among the classes aside from putting points you earn from leveling into attack speed/movement/armor/attack strenghts etc... everyone of a single class has the same attacks. What I would love to see in DF are some abilities that require a certain key combination (assuming WASD) "W,W, Attack" etc... I would also love to see grabs if implemented properly i think this would be great and a failed grab should definately leave you vulnerable such as in rakion. It is very limited in your character development, you just pick a class thats good for oyu and the type of game mode you wanna play and basically are like most other of your classes with minor differences but its rare to be VERY unique and succesful. Even though DF will not have manual blocking, one thing I did find nice about Rakion is if your oponent is blocking you can do d a key combo that is unblockable and catch them off guard, this also will leave you vulnerable if they read you and avoid your attack and give them a chance to combo/special/grab you.



Final Word-

Basically, Mount and Blade has been spoken for before on its pros, but i believe combat would be too slow/dull/repetetive if it was exactly like mount and blade but there are definately positive aspects to the combat system there. Rakion I was far more entertained by simply because theres more variety, and being able to do certain key combo's/strategies can really make you stand out from a less skilled player of the same class, the lag tho can be brutal and you can suck an entire game because you think you're hitting other players but oyu're not. If the key combo strategy could be implemented into DF along with basic abilities that dont' require the "twitch" in a way that was not imbalanced, I think this would add an additional fun factor to DF, also grabs, if implemented properly would rock. My own personal hope is that there is some way to do specific counterattacks if you read your opponents strategy/tactics, sort of like Dead or Alive for xbox, a miss read and you get hit in the face, but a succesful read and you get to hit them.

At this point I'm getting more and more excited to see how darkfall handles the FPS type of Melee combat, and also how the different races perform. For the meantime I'll be playing Rakion over Mount and Blade because its pretty fun and hey, IT"S FREE
:D :D

O rly?

Seriously, you're fucking insane. Rakion sucks. The combat is simple and cheesy. If you say Mount&Blade lacks depth, you must really suck at it. Try not playing on easiest mode. Try playing as a fucking infantry spearman instead of whoring around with knights. Try getting good at horse archery. Try beating Vaegir Marksmen with a crossbow and 20 bolts. Try soloing with just a balanced arming sword and no horse against 40 mountain bandits.

Con: No magic. Are you fucking retarded? This is, as some have mentioned, meant to be a medieval simulator. If you want magic, go play WoW, bitch. Fuck, some people are stupid.

Dumbass OP of the Year Award goes to Phiendish.

EDIT: Also, Holy Necro Batman!

[Attilius]

Magic is a big part of Medieval MMORPGS's and in a FPS environment works like a ranged character, they still have to aim and make contact with their spells/abilities and time their casting based on the spells cast time and delay.

Also healing is gimp huh? I don't think you're understanding the use for healing, kind of a weak tunnel vision point of view to think healing is just for fixing a screwup. theres no healing in M&B during battle period, if Marnid or whatever his name is starts to get ganked I couldn't heal him so even tho its not online I would consider my group of fighters a team, and theres little we coudl do to support eachother in M&B besides try and gank the people trying to gank someone else. In an MMORPG a big part of teamwork is healing and strategically balancing your offense and defense to your team alive and maintain an advantage, if someones getting attacked by 4 guys then its not him necessarily "messing up" and needing to gimp and heal, he probably won't be able to get a heal off on himself, now if he had a partner that was able to heal him thats not gimp but its teamwork, support, if there's no healing that will remove a lot of strategy/skill from group fights.

You might as well say, "I suck so hard at melee that I need health potions to save my ass. That's why I play Oblivion instead of M&B."

There isn't supposed to be healing in M&B. It's supposed to be semi-realistic. Damn, you missed the whole point of the game.

Phiendish (way to spell Fiendish wrong...am I the only person who thinks people just misspell words to be cute, but come off as fucking idiotic?) clearly doesn't understand what the fantasy genre is. It doesn't have to be loaded with Warcraft-type magic. Arguably the most popular modern fantasy series -- some people read, you know! -- A Song of Ice and Fire, has very little magic in it. Yet people love it.

[Milo Hobgoblin]

Rakion??!??!

I'll have to check it out... never heard of it./

[Xife]

Holy shit, I posted in this thread 2 years ago.