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XAleX
12-01-2009, 21:45
'safe' is a four-letter-word here..

WoW-=> that way

No. You're being ridiculously short sighted and childish in this.

There is no absolute 0% safe game, period, because it would be silly. You have to remember that this is a GAME and people are supposed to have FUN in this, even if it means that some things must stray from realism or "freedom" or whatever. If most people are damaged by things as they are, and it seems to be case, the change is a welcome one.

Heck, you don't even know how much damage will they do and you are complaining about the downfall of the whole game! Get over it!

bartillo
12-01-2009, 21:46
If i had to take a wild guess id prob say 10 dmg on towers with 15 dmg crits.

Dutchviper
12-01-2009, 21:46
Last I checked, hamlets have a shitty number of bind spots. And are designed for small clans to own and fight over. And weren't meant to be used exclusively as siege-shards by the zerg alliances.

This'll be one step closer to bringin hamlets more in line with their actual purpose.

thats what theyre supposed to but zergs use them...

warriorswar
12-01-2009, 21:51
the guard towers have also undergone upgrading and will dish out more damage along with the added feature that they can also lead to critical hits.


I'm sorry but that's suck at all.

Its the most careaber news since release.

Henide
12-01-2009, 21:51
devs have said over and over DFO isnt about solo pvp, its about large scale 1000+ person battles.

Also AV is smart, DFO cant just have a ton of reds running around killing each other, it mine as well be a quake deathmatch and not a mmo.

DFO needs chance like crits, thievery, racial differences, and a cap.. player diversity and "luck" helps create a mmo and not a fps death match

"go back to wow"
im in the same boat that thinks that cities should not be ganked solo so easily as it is now, but what bartillo says is just utter ass.

Loc
12-01-2009, 21:51
lol critical hits from guard towers..

Tiak
12-01-2009, 21:51
You guys arent thinking about the meta game are you?

Now to siege a clan you will have to destroy there towers and destroy there walls.. this is a good thing as it forces a attack to actually siege a city.

Also one guy shouldnt be able to ride in and kill everyone, why i would prefer npc guards towers work the same way.

Anyone raiding a city should have to destroy/disable a tower.

Plus AV constnatly says over and over and did again in the mmorpg.com video that darkfall is about large scale pvp with thousands of players fighting at the same time.
Being able to solo players in there city is rediculous
You should feel SAFE in your city unless someone is raiding you to destroy your walls, towers, and finally capture your city.

If one guy is trying to grief people in your city they should be destroyed by guards/zap towers

Only sieges with a lot of people should be able to attack a city
Unless a raid party wants to go to the trouble brings cannons/warhulks in and destroys your tower.

good job AV
i will be subbing as soon as i see as patch goes live ^^

Have you ever actually played Darkfall?... This game would be incredibly boring if the only times my city got raided was when there was enough people to disable a guard tower.

Amishh
12-01-2009, 21:51
thats what theyre supposed to but zergs use them...

zerg builds hamlet tower, i can see how this helps small clans

LisaL.
12-01-2009, 21:57
revert, we can all pretend this didnt happen.

Mortimer
12-01-2009, 21:59
I so hope for palisades and maybe wooden gates for the hamlets. Would be nice to get some defensive capabilities at last cause come on, hamlets > villages let's give them some love.:rolleyes:

Amishh
12-01-2009, 22:02
revert, we can all pretend this didnt happen.

lets stay real.. this shit will make it to the patch notes. Great way to make a Great expansion only to make many want to quit

Falokis
12-01-2009, 22:08
Have you ever actually played Darkfall?... This game would be incredibly boring if the only times my city got raided was when there was enough people to disable a guard tower.If the only place you can find PvP is inside a town full of AFKers, the towers aren't the problem. The game is broken.

Melkorus
12-01-2009, 22:10
Sounds good, and the rest of you stop whining already. Tower dmg before was so low that it wasn't even part of the equation when you are deciding if it's worth it or not to raid a city. Hopefully the dmg is not so ubber that it's OP, but the dmg could have been increased 300% easily and still be on the low end.

Sorath
12-01-2009, 22:17
Stupid.

Patriota
12-01-2009, 22:19
wow, i dont know if i'm happy to see more ppl living in hamlets or unhappy to maybe not be able to raid a city anymore lol.

neon sheild
12-01-2009, 22:19
other spotlights have been better; i really don't like the extra guard tower damage, or the towers in hamlets...

Sin'jin
12-01-2009, 22:20
Some needed changes in there for sure. Towers doing more damage is a mixed bag. Its good because of how little they do atm. They are basically useless. As to how much more damage they should do is questionable. 2-4pts more maybe would be ok.

The hamlet changes I think are great... IF... you give hamlets crafting stations and defensive walls of some sort. Lets face it folks, we all agree that hamlets have been pretty much useless since launch. Some have only a merchant.. Who would live there? Give them things that make them an attractive place for new clan to WANT to live. I love the idea of small towers for hamlets no matter what anyone else says. There must be some "sense" of security in a place you own.

Intersting changes and even more interesting tears.....

JCatano
12-01-2009, 22:23
More tower damage... No opinion, yet.

Critical hits? Terrible.

kager
12-01-2009, 22:24
same naysayers coming out and crying about nothing when it was originally found that there were guard towers in the game.

Back then I even mentioned that guard towers do not do anything but damage naked cockroaches. Under the current system you out regen them with food alone when you are armored, they are only really a way to tell where someone was in the city.

In the capacity they are right now they are a joke.

Even a slight increase would make it more of a deterrent to keep in Line of sight of the towers, but it's not like it will stop attackers flat out. It just gives more of a reason to farm 500 modules to have one up in the city besides looking at your grid alarm and then seeing which tower goes off to try to defend against them.

Good change as long as they dont make them hit for 25 every 6 seconds. (a bump to 10 damage every 6 seconds on geared isn't imo overpowered)

Hamlet towers can obviously be a bit weaker, but strong enough to discourage naked cock roaches from being out in the open. Get back under the cupboard bitches!

Damphousse
12-01-2009, 22:26
NOOOOOO!!! Stop adding guard towers. It's impossible to be stealthy when a laser beam is hitting you.

nisco17
12-01-2009, 22:27
Can towers get a increase on damage too? As it stands they only are good for pointing out where enemies are really.

That's good enough. Defend your own city.

Kasmos
12-01-2009, 22:28
Last I checked, hamlets have a shitty number of bind spots. And are designed for small clans to own and fight over. And weren't meant to be used exclusively as siege-shards by the zerg alliances.

This'll be one step closer to bringin hamlets more in line with their actual purpose.

What a fucking genius.

And I'm loving reading this thread. So much tasty QQ tears, I think I may have to go home after work in an hour and roll me an L just to re-read this epicness.

bartillo
12-01-2009, 22:29
hopefully AV will add critical hits to melee, archery and magic soon.
DFO is spose to be a MMO not a FPS and in a MMO there are critical hits.

Arkh
12-01-2009, 22:32
Player towers should do no damage. Just point to where ennemies are.

bartillo
12-01-2009, 22:33
Player towers should do no damage. Just point to where ennemies are.

then we need npc guards.. a player city should be protected and safe unless under siege or unless the raiding party can disable the guard tower with cannons/warhulks

nisco17
12-01-2009, 22:37
Player towers should do no damage. Just point to where ennemies are.

Or at least not an INCREASE to damage.

Hell, I dislike the Guard Tower concept altogether. The more automated guarding, the less communication and teamwork needed to guard a city.

If it were up to me, I'd replace them with some type of 360 degree rotatable mega cannons, which can only be manned by someone in the alliance. Less automation, but still good city defense.

But oh well.

BelegStrongbow
12-01-2009, 22:40
I like guard towers for now, and I like this addition but SERIOUSLY......

GET RID OF ALL GAURD TOWERS AND ADD NPC GUARDS.

You promised us we could hire NPC guards to our cities and hamlets. Towers are fine for dealing like 5 damage so we can find the enemy. But have Guards dish out the damage. The same needs to be for ALL CITIES. Starter cities and NPC cities as well.

They all should be defended by multiple Guards that attack and can be killed for decent loot and drops. These guards should be customizable, such as ranged, mages, fighters (melee tanks). And all upgradable.

Whenever a guard dies, the clan needs to pay for more.

IMPLEMENT THIS NOW DAMN!!!

Dutchviper
12-01-2009, 22:41
Sounds good, and the rest of you stop whining already. Tower dmg before was so low that it wasn't even part of the equation when you are deciding if it's worth it or not to raid a city. Hopefully the dmg is not so ubber that it's OP, but the dmg could have been increased 300% easily and still be on the low end.

CAREBEARS SHOULD NOT SPEAK IN THIS THREAD

300 fucking % are you sick in your head that wouldt mean they would do effign 24 dmg even if these towers do no damage theyre fucked cause they show where you are when you are hit...

Unfettered
12-01-2009, 22:53
I like how the pic has shadows.

bartillo
12-01-2009, 22:53
CAREBEARS SHOULD NOT SPEAK IN THIS THREAD

300 fucking % are you sick in your head that wouldt mean they would do effign 24 dmg even if these towers do no damage theyre fucked cause they show where you are when you are hit...

if we had NPC guards they would prob do 20 damage or so then wed have guard towers to zap and find people while the npc guards attack.
Ofc npc guards will be killable a lootable and when they die clans will have to pay money to hire more.
Thats why they are the better option.

Brother Justin
12-01-2009, 22:59
the idea of NPC guards were scrapped due to performance issues.

Shouting for it here will not bring it to life.

Omegataco
12-01-2009, 23:00
Before you guys start cryfall all over again, you may consider that even if the damage output was doubled or trippled, it would still be very doable to do raids and stuff.

Don't bother, 90% of the people on these forums dont stop and think about how the changes will play out before they post their illogical qq posts.

Valroth
12-01-2009, 23:01
Lets be honest guys, most of the hamlets in the game are nothing but chaos banks. I used to live out of someone else's hamlet for a long time because there was nothing they could do to stop me. Something like this needed to happen. It just adds a little defensive advantage for hamlet owners, its not like hamlets will be inpregnable strongholds or anything.

bartillo
12-01-2009, 23:02
the idea of NPC guards were scrapped due to performance issues.

Shouting for it here will not bring it to life.

what i heard was they removed them to fit 10k people online at one time or whatever.. well there is NOT 10k people online ever now I can promise you so mine as well feel the void with npc hirelings.

Kasmos
12-01-2009, 23:03
Lets be honest guys, most of the hamlets in the game are nothing but chaos banks. I used to live out of someone else's hamlet for a long time because there was nothing they could do to stop me. Something like this needed to happen. It just adds a little defensive advantage for hamlet owners, its not like hamlets will be inpregnable strongholds or anything.

Shhhhhh!!!!!!!!! Common sense in a thread full of so much QQ might decrease the QQ!

I WANT ME MOAR QQ!!!!!!!!!!!

raapnaap
12-01-2009, 23:04
Not reading all the posts in here... Mostly QQ it seems.

In my opinion, this is a much needed change. Towers are useless right now and especially considering the huge cost to build one. This is a much needed change to actually give the CITY OWNERS an advantage to speak of.

As for pvp. City raids will still happen... just hide from the zap towers rather than standing in them like nothing is hitting you. Not like you would lack pvp in this expansion anyway, with visible village timers getting action should be a lot easier.

Anyway, I hope they fix all the annoying city-specific bugs like terrain in the way of using certain city cannons, holes in the walls, ect.

Finally and probably most important; I hope they fixed city cannons being able to damage buildings!

Omegataco
12-01-2009, 23:08
I like guard towers for now, and I like this addition but SERIOUSLY......

GET RID OF ALL GAURD TOWERS AND ADD NPC GUARDS.

You promised us we could hire NPC guards to our cities and hamlets. Towers are fine for dealing like 5 damage so we can find the enemy. But have Guards dish out the damage. The same needs to be for ALL CITIES. Starter cities and NPC cities as well.

They all should be defended by multiple Guards that attack and can be killed for decent loot and drops. These guards should be customizable, such as ranged, mages, fighters (melee tanks). And all upgradable.

Whenever a guard dies, the clan needs to pay for more.

IMPLEMENT THIS NOW DAMN!!!

Ah...... a Dec 09er. Read Brother Justin's post :)

bartillo
12-01-2009, 23:09
Ah...... a Dec 09er. Read Brother Justin's post :)

then read my post, again the reason they removed guards was to fit the 10k people on at one time or whatever.. again there is not 10k people on at one time so they can just let guard hirelings take some of the 5k or so empty player slots

blob
12-01-2009, 23:12
the idea of NPC guards were scrapped due to performance issues.

Shouting for it here will not bring it to life.

why will npc guards kill performance , they are just like any other mob spawn or upcoming wondering mobs ????

Shioni
12-01-2009, 23:21
I'm not really a super PvPer, but this is probably the worst decision Dev has made IMO.

Hamlets are suppose to be vulnerable and the guard towers are not meant for killing its to clue you in on location, if anything they damage armor way too much.

You would use up about three sets of scale armor whilst you attempt to knock down a guard tower witch I might add can be repaired in a tenth of the time it takes 15+ people to knock down.

If you want us to accept these new towers you have to at least make them not damage armor because the towers are a joke in the first place because Dev where too lazy to implement friendly AI guards to replace them.

Moonias
12-01-2009, 23:26
booo this man!

Holy|TLC
12-01-2009, 23:27
Just what the game needs. More guard towers and less incentive to raid player cities...

I hate you AV.

MortalZero
12-01-2009, 23:28
well done ! bring it on AV :)

dizzyg8r
12-01-2009, 23:42
People really should wait to see what the actual increased damage output is before crying about it. If the damaged is increased to @10 on fully geared peeps, then this is much ado about nothing. If it's increased to be on par with the damage NPC zap towers do, then that's worth complaining about. At 10-15 dmg, really does not have much impact with the exception of making it harder for a small group to lock down a city's bank room (which if you're just raiding, not sure why you would do this unless you don't want people to gear up and fight). If you don't know how to avoid getting hit more than 2-3 times in a row by a clan tower, then you are either an idiot, or didn't take the time to learn the layout of the city. Really not hard to lose LoS on player towers atm. For people complaining about player towers destroying their gear, here's a thought, try raiding in gear with more than 10 durability. So many people are looking for low risk/high reward pvp, when the model should be high risk/high reward.

hyperion_x91
12-01-2009, 23:42
I'm surprised to see how many morons QQ about the critical hits towers will have the possibility of doing, before they have even received word of how this will work. Seriously... Can anyone tell me how critical hits are done currently in pvp? Sad thing is apparently majority of this thread would have you believe there are NO critical hits in Darkfall, but us people with brains beg to differ. WTF is back dmg then? and how do you know critical hits from towers won't be dealt to backs only?... You don't so STFU and stop whining about something you know nothing about.

Tedium
12-01-2009, 23:44
Interesting stuff, looking forward to seeing how this plays out.

hyperion_x91
12-01-2009, 23:44
I'm not really a super PvPer, but this is probably the worst decision Dev has made IMO.

Hamlets are suppose to be vulnerable and the guard towers are not meant for killing its to clue you in on location, if anything they damage armor way too much.

You would use up about three sets of scale armor whilst you attempt to knock down a guard tower witch I might add can be repaired in a tenth of the time it takes 15+ people to knock down.

If you want us to accept these new towers you have to at least make them not damage armor because the towers are a joke in the first place because Dev where too lazy to implement friendly AI guards to replace them.

I agree, removing the damage they deal to armor would be a step in the right direction.

Cryb0rg
12-01-2009, 23:57
Great changes. I think that small walls for hamlets wouldn't be amiss either, like the ones you see at mob spawns. Easy to launch over, but also good to defend from. No gatehouses though. Just aN opening to serve as a chokepoint. There's plenty of mob spawn walls as an example.

FastEddy
12-01-2009, 23:57
I thought the idea of the expansion was to bring people back and make the game better.

Grathane
12-02-2009, 00:02
Hmmm, I'm surprised at how many people are daunted by the thought of increased tower damage and tower in hamlets...while this may be a problem for ungeared, unskilled noobs doing solo raids, it really shouldn't be a serious issue for proper attacks.

Tower in player cities currently do little more than negate food regen - now they will actually take away some health. I don't see this as ending PvP...and am amazed some people do. :)

Cryb0rg
12-02-2009, 00:02
Wait..... Are those walls in the attached picture.

thedrumchannell
12-02-2009, 00:13
Wait..... Are those walls in the attached picture.

Some kind of fence. Do some hamlets not already have these?

owtyknaps
12-02-2009, 00:13
Guard towers in hamlets is so shitty, now itll be impossible to solo raid a hamlet's mines/farms/groves. Itll be even more impossible to raid a hamlet with defenders solo now.

atome
12-02-2009, 00:20
Nice feature, good to see.

Love seeing all the folks crying and moaning & whining, omg, without having tried it ingame.

Sieging is a far more planned out affair now, good stuff!

fCo_Pancho
12-02-2009, 00:23
Gay just GayThis.

Agarnaoum
12-02-2009, 00:23
This doesn't sound good at all...

10 11 2000
12-02-2009, 00:24
Oh noes, bad boys can't solo raid hamlets and cities anymore. God forbid.
What are we gonna do?

Oh fuck, people can't use other people's rare mines, groves and farms.

Oh crap, hamlets finally become usable. With towers and fences and the aoe LOS fix bad boys wont be able to AOE spam naked farmers.


Again, Thank you Aventurine.

For the amazing expansion and all the QQing it causes.

Nitsua185
12-02-2009, 00:34
I'm usually not one to bitch, but I dont like this all. Towers are nothing more than an annoyance, they dont sway a fight for the most part. If anything, we need less towers in this game and more npcs guards. ATLEAST give us the option to turn off tower sounds, that shit drives me insane.

BlueOreo
12-02-2009, 00:39
I really don't think this is a great change.

All the hamlets have clan houses in them. Why not make it so that one of the clan houses in a hamlet can have a door put on it, much like player houses? This, along with the AoE geometry changes, would allow people living out of hamlets to have a degree of safety, while not taking away from hamlet raiding and city raiding.

Guard towers really didn't need a buff of any kind. They're already the equivalent of a persistent DoT spell, which is plenty to deter attackers if the city is populated enough to defend itself. A change like this only promotes smaller populations in player built cities, because people can rely on guard towers instead of other people for defense.

Finally, the picture linked looks like they took the regular guard tower, chopped the top section off, and planted it in the ground. Ugh.

Please reconsider this change before the expansion.

Nutcuppa Soup
12-02-2009, 00:46
Oh noes, bad boys can't solo raid hamlets and cities anymore. God forbid.
What are we gonna do?

Oh fuck, people can't use other people's rare mines, groves and farms.

Oh crap, hamlets finally become usable. With towers and fences and the aoe LOS fix bad boys wont be able to AOE spam naked farmers.


Again, Thank you Aventurine.

For the amazing expansion and all the QQing it causes.


I hate towers, but this guy is on to something.

APEist
12-02-2009, 00:49
Increasing guard tower damage and lending them critical hits is an awful idea, if the change is significant. I believe guard towers do around 8-9 damage a shot atm... if they do any more than 14 or so a shot after the change it will be horrible hopping into cities.

Crashtest Dummy
12-02-2009, 00:50
Guard towers for player cities is fine as is. So many people here complain about guard tower damage because food negates the tower damage. They say it does nothing. In addition, defenders get to respawn right there and naked swarm attackers.

Fine then. 1v1 me, I get to eat food and you don't for 10k. Melee/archery so you can't call magic spam hacks. Guarantee you I will get way more wins than losses.

The meta-game with cannons does sound interesting. Upping guard-tower damage is not the only way to achieve this, and I think it is a lazy solution.

To the idiot saying 'THINK ABOUT HOW CRITZ WORK IN THIS GAME GUARDTOWER BACKDAMAGE LOLS'. Guard towers doing back damage is probably the worst idea I have ever heard of in the forums. I am almost offended by this suggestion.

DwellerBelow
12-02-2009, 00:50
Fucking idiot. As the poster above says, carebears are needed in this game. We need a balance of all kinds of p layers. :bang::lmao:

Hey, Azzhat, I *am* a carebear, you will find me harvesting...

*behind the towers*

:P

stingerII
12-02-2009, 01:08
ppl are making a big deal out of nothing. Guard Tower dmg was a joke before and if they improve it, it will just become a scratch instead of a tickle

that said I rather have npc guards as specified below:


first off remove city alerts
npc guards cannot be looted
npc guards attack the same ppl towers currently attack
npc guards cannot be directly controlled by the owner
npc guards are only spawned when players are in the area, irrespective of whether friendly or foe
hamlets get 2-4 guard dogs, they bark to signal hostiles. They have a slow respawn rate (e.g. 5 mins). Hamlet guards cannot be upgraded
cities gets 5-10 guards, they yell to signal hostiles. They have a slower respawn rate (e.g. 10 mins). City owner can pick what kind of guards they have which depends on their buildings:

no building: guard dogs
fighter guild: melee fighters
church: debuff/healers
mage guild: ranged mages
keep: archers

npc guards can be set to patrol or to stand guard at a building (e.g. smithy, forge, quarry, etc)

Bored
12-02-2009, 01:11
Now the whole fixing cities is fine by me, but stronger gaurd towers is something I'm sort of opposed to. Raiding cities is one of the most awesome things in this game and one of the best ways to get some pvp. If they make gaurd towers too strong it'll make citing raiding that much harder and that less appealing. Now they might do a good job at balancing everything it's just I can see towers becoming a huge nuscence to anyone raiding.

Agarnaoum
12-02-2009, 01:18
Upgraded towers are already dealing too many damages in a lot of cities and are a real pain in the ass when you ARE actually fighting.

You want better city protections? Try gearing up sometimes... it helps.

And there were MANY others ways to make hamlets finally usefull (like crafting stations, npc with some special quests, walls...)


Oh noes, bad boys can't solo raid hamlets and cities anymore. God forbid.
What are we gonna do?

Oh fuck, people can't use other people's rare mines, groves and farms.


What is wrong with solo raiding?

And if you want to keep your ores then just defend them on your own.

Najik
12-02-2009, 01:27
Oh Noes, NAKID GOLD FARMING/ALT BOTS will no longer be able to farm that mine with immunity.
Guess they will have to consider wearing some protection, but that means they might risk losing some gear, god forbid that should ever happen!.

Temko Firewing
12-02-2009, 01:30
The QQ in this thread is epic, beyond even the "npc guard tower" levels of epic pre-prelease... and all i got to add to it is:


Where is mah Bloodcraft, eh?!

Lexxer
12-02-2009, 01:32
The QQ'ing in this thread is unbelievable. Its so easy to stay out of towers LoS in most cities...that wont change.

Problems solo raiding hamlets for ore? Try standing on the other side of the freakin mine and the tower cant get you...they are like 4 feet tall from that picture.

stingerII
12-02-2009, 01:35
..they are like 4 feet tall from that picture.

i lol'd :lmao:

moocat
12-02-2009, 01:38
No to more dmg on zap towers

Dragoon
12-02-2009, 01:45
Lets be honest guys, most of the hamlets in the game are nothing but chaos banks. I used to live out of someone else's hamlet for a long time because there was nothing they could do to stop me. Something like this needed to happen. It just adds a little defensive advantage for hamlet owners, its not like hamlets will be inpregnable strongholds or anything.

Yeah I've done the same thing. People like to cry "carebear" but really they're the carebears whining because an ezmode game mechanic is being taken away from them.

Dragoon
12-02-2009, 01:46
.

Hamlets are suppose to be vulnerable and the guard towers are not meant for killing its to clue you in on location

Who the hell are you to tell the devs what guard towers were meant for? :rolleyes:

Orov
12-02-2009, 01:55
I do not approve of this thread or these changes. WTF are they thinking?

Bored
12-02-2009, 01:58
The QQ'ing in this thread is unbelievable. Its so easy to stay out of towers LoS in most cities...that wont change.

Problems solo raiding hamlets for ore? Try standing on the other side of the freakin mine and the tower cant get you...they are like 4 feet tall from that picture.
I don't have anything against adding towers to hamlets, that just sounds like a good idea to me. My issue is if they make shit to powerful raiding a city will be extremely hard. Now of course defenders should have some sort of advantage but regular city raids may become close to extinct if these new gaurd towers put the attackers at too much of a disadvantage. Sure you can stay out of a towers range but only for so long and also giving up a HUGE advantage to the defenders who now have a fairly safe zone. Towers as they are give away enemy locations, do enough damage to make them want to be avoided, but are weak enough that you can still push and ignore them for a short amount of time and can actively control areas in tower range if need be (such as the bank if you want to lock down a city). Perhaps a very small increase might be ok, but they need to be very careful with it.

boby
12-02-2009, 02:03
yay more towers:bang:

ninogan
12-02-2009, 02:19
lolwat

electrofux
12-02-2009, 02:29
 little more damage is ok but please no critical hits.

Brokel
12-02-2009, 02:43
the upgrade to guard towers is obviously to encourage more use of warhulks, cannons and other ranged siege equipment.

That combined with the lower cost, and the new requirement to destroy walls is going to make sieges more in depth.

bartillo
12-02-2009, 02:46
I don't have anything against adding towers to hamlets, that just sounds like a good idea to me. My issue is if they make shit to powerful raiding a city will be extremely hard. Now of course defenders should have some sort of advantage but regular city raids may become close to extinct if these new gaurd towers put the attackers at too much of a disadvantage. Sure you can stay out of a towers range but only for so long and also giving up a HUGE advantage to the defenders who now have a fairly safe zone. Towers as they are give away enemy locations, do enough damage to make them want to be avoided, but are weak enough that you can still push and ignore them for a short amount of time and can actively control areas in tower range if need be (such as the bank if you want to lock down a city). Perhaps a very small increase might be ok, but they need to be very careful with it.

a attacker trying to raid a city should HAVE to disable the tower with cannons or warhulks.
I think this is what the AV devs intend.. they are looking at the meta game, large scale sieging, and having to destory walls and towers with cannons and warhulks will make sieging much more exciting

If you are attacking a city at all you should HAVE to bring siege equipment and take towers out first

Winkers
12-02-2009, 02:49
=(

I'd say more, but that perfectly sums up my feelings of this change. It makes me sad, because THIS IS ONE STEP CLOSER TO SAFE ZONES OUTSIDE OF STARTER CITIES!

:bang::bang::bang::bang::bang::bang::ban g::bang::bang:

10 11 2000
12-02-2009, 02:54
=(

I'd say more, but that perfectly sums up my feelings of this change. It makes me sad, because THIS IS ONE STEP CLOSER TO SAFE ZONES OUTSIDE OF STARTER CITIES!

:bang::bang::bang::bang::bang::bang::ban g::bang::bang:

I guess you're so skilled that you need to kill people at the goblin spawns outside starter cities, correct?


Imo, Aventurine owned the "zomgisoloraidyou" habit with this change.
DFO is a group/team-play game.

Noone was ever intended to raid a fucking hamlet or clan city all by himself.


Keep the QQ coming please, this day is a happy day for me.

bartillo
12-02-2009, 02:55
=(

I'd say more, but that perfectly sums up my feelings of this change. It makes me sad, because THIS IS ONE STEP CLOSER TO SAFE ZONES OUTSIDE OF STARTER CITIES!

:bang::bang::bang::bang::bang::bang::ban g::bang::bang:

if you really want to raid a city and kill nakeds/crafters get a warhulk or cannon and blow the tower up.

AV is adding towers and icnrease the dmg so that EVERYONE will start using warhulks and cannons

Ginger Magician
12-02-2009, 03:10
Yea. Every hamlet shoud at least have basic smithy, workbench, labaratory and smelter. ALlowing them to craft bows, weapons, armors, staffs.
Thus allowing a small clan to live there alone.

This is the way to go not introduce towers.Let hamlet owners build walls as well obviosuly not as good as city walls but offering some degree of cover and protection.Many smaller clans would be delighted Im sure to be able to live in a hamlet with decent facilites and make them a lot more active than they are atm.
Without these facilites in place hamlets will be no more occupied than they are at the moment towers or not.

Surely they cant be stupid enough not to realize this FFS?

Tenebrion
12-02-2009, 03:15
OMFG HAMLETS ARE GETTING SOMETHING THAT MIGHT MAKE THEM WORTH A SHIT! LET'S ALL BITCH ABOUT IT!

Idiots.

nacitar sevaht
12-02-2009, 03:19
Critical hits = fucking retarded

Stronger towers = fucking retarded.

Rest is good.

Keno
12-02-2009, 03:34
OMFG HAMLETS ARE GETTING SOMETHING THAT MIGHT MAKE THEM WORTH A SHIT! LET'S ALL BITCH ABOUT IT!

Idiots.

It is not really the fact that hamlets are getting a added defense structure that are making people bitch, its the fact they are pumping up the damage to the zap towers and even giving them chances to produce critical hits. Bro, its fucking retarded.

xpiher
12-02-2009, 03:41
fuck idiots. Everything in the expansion was fine until you upped tower damage.

bartillo
12-02-2009, 03:50
fuck idiots. Everything in the expansion was fine until you upped tower damage.

the devs are trying to balance! they dont want you raiding cities every day.. you are only suppose to attack a city if you are sieging. Unless you have a ton of people and can get warhulks/cannons and then you have to destroy the walls AND the zap towers.

If they dont up the dmg/add crits no one will ever want to use warhulks to destroy towers. now they will have to.

It gives a reason for cannons/warhulks to use.
Towers should be strategic and require all attackers to use siege equipment to tame them out.
You should not be able to walk in to someones city any time you please.

DFO is about large scale pvp, devs say that all the time.

RabicanShiver
12-02-2009, 03:50
sounds like an awesome change.

RabicanShiver
12-02-2009, 03:52
fuck idiots. Everything in the expansion was fine until you upped tower damage.


Seriously? Whats the point of even having towers as is? I was in my guild town a week or two ago super late at night and not many people were on. I saw a guy who was raiding just stand around the bank getting hit by guard tower with impunity. now Im not suggesting the tower be strong enough to kill the guy... but it should be more of an annoyance than a mosquito.

Juvante
12-02-2009, 03:54
sounds like an awesome change.

Yes sounds like a good idea, now just get rid of the lightning bolt because it's so lame. Create an arrow graphic coming out of the tower, that would look a lot more realistic.

Yoda
12-02-2009, 04:06
this is av stealing sand from small group pvp. christ why not let the players enforce what should and should not be alowd in their cities. gaurd towers=safe zones. aventurine:you make me mad.

fay2dumb
12-02-2009, 04:08
I like that they're making hamlets useful.

Even if you double/triple current guard tower damage it can be mitigated by using food, witches brew. To hammer down a guard tower, all you need is two people using healing chant on either side with someone lend manaing each person.

So glad there's more of a use for healing chant now.

And THANK GOD they're fixing terrain issues on cities. OMG, we've been asking since release.

Yoda
12-02-2009, 04:11
i remember the days when we talked about environmental stealth. where there would be no wow-esque invisibility cloaks. damnit av.

bartillo
12-02-2009, 04:15
i remember the days when we talked about environmental stealth. where there would be no wow-esque invisibility cloaks. damnit av.

I think AV should implement some kind of "stealth" skill but not total invis.. more like if you are in grass you sort of go "clear" kinda and blend in more.. like crouching in grass or a bush or something and activating stealth makes you blend in more then normal..
But if you are out in the open and you activate "stealth" everyone can see you just as good.

Rahkim
12-02-2009, 04:20
Would you prefer it if the walls were three times as big and couldn't be launched over and every city raid required you to bring cannons to blow a hole in the wall? Personally I would prefer that.

Towers are a compromise because walls are useless. How do you people not understand this?

Useful walls would be so much better than zap towers, i dont know why we had to "compromise" in the first place =/

stingerII
12-02-2009, 04:21
fuck idiots. Everything in the expansion was fine until you upped tower damage.

bull ... fuckin ... crap!

if its cannon towers ... its about time they felt like a bloody cannon!!

and if its about guard towers, neither you nor anyone else whining have the slightest idea by "how much" it was increased.

What we do know is currently they do about as much damage as a laser pointer!

muddymess
12-02-2009, 04:28
the devs are trying to balance! they dont want you raiding cities every day.. you are only suppose to attack a city if you are sieging. Unless you have a ton of people and can get warhulks/cannons and then you have to destroy the walls AND the zap towers.

If they dont up the dmg/add crits no one will ever want to use warhulks to destroy towers. now they will have to.

It gives a reason for cannons/warhulks to use.
Towers should be strategic and require all attackers to use siege equipment to tame them out.
You should not be able to walk in to someones city any time you please.

DFO is about large scale pvp, devs say that all the time.


Right, they don't want us raiding cities every day. Then they have to make some reason for people to leave them. As it is, there is practically no reason to leave your city other than to grind skills on mobs.

This is also a big change for the smaller clans. This is just increasing the gap between the big rich clans and the small casual clans. What you're saying is that people should bring warhulks/cannons to city raids. This will mean that there will be no city raids, since nobody is dumb enough to risk a warhulk or cannon for some pathetic city raid.

Yes, DFO is about large scale pvp. When groups of people raid a city = fun pvp. That's my opinion, either raiding or defending it's fun. If you Up the damage of the towers it will make smaller groups not want to raid cities, thus limiting their PvP to hitting up goblin spawns and removing the best source of balanced PvP that there is at the moment.

I'm a strong believer in no safe-zones. No towers at all. I can see that they might be necessary in starter zones to protect the noobs, but in player cities it's pathetic. If they can take a city, they should be able to defend a city.

Bored
12-02-2009, 04:29
To those saying it's to promote cannon and warhulk use, yes we get it, but that doesn't change the point. Sure sieges are fun and all and adding more dynamics to them is cool. But medium sized pvp relies on raiding. You can't siege with a medium sized group and expect to win, pking random people at spawns with a medium sized group is no fun, so what do you do, you raid cities. Now the glory of the city raid is that it's quick, it's easy, and it's fun. You have large group dynamics but not siege numbers. It's charge the walls, hide out in the keep try to cut off bank access. Stronger gaurd towers could effectively remove this element from the game (once again assuming this is more then just a minor tweak which is the sense I get from the post). This would leave a huge gap between full on sieges and small pk parties. Raids are very common for a reason, they're fun, they're challenging, and they're easy to organize, and they cost nothing more then the gear you take. They're messing with on of the core elements of the game in a way that could remove it, that's the problem I have. Some people seem to like the idea that city raids should be only if you have a large group, but before you decide that just think about how will medium groups find pvp if that were the case.

bartillo
12-02-2009, 04:30
Right, they don't want us raiding cities every day. Then they have to make some reason for people to leave them. As it is, there is practically no reason to leave your city other than to grind skills on mobs.

This is also a big change for the smaller clans. This is just increasing the gap between the big rich clans and the small casual clans. What you're saying is that people should bring warhulks/cannons to city raids. This will mean that there will be no city raids, since nobody is dumb enough to risk a warhulk or cannon for some pathetic city raid.

Yes, DFO is about large scale pvp. When groups of people raid a city = fun pvp. That's my opinion, either raiding or defending it's fun. If you Up the damage of the towers it will make smaller groups not want to raid cities, thus limiting their PvP to hitting up goblin spawns and removing the best source of balanced PvP that there is at the moment.

I'm a strong believer in no safe-zones. No towers at all. I can see that they might be necessary in starter zones to protect the noobs, but in player cities it's pathetic. If they can take a city, they should be able to defend a city.

well we know in the siege changes spotlight that you have to destroy walls in a siege now and you have to use cannons/warhulks ONLY, hammers wont work..
So many AV is planning to make it where you have to use cannons/warhulks on towers and major buildings also? Hammers should only be for banks and bind stones and other small structures.
Also just like they are reducing the costs of ships i am sure cannons and warhulks will become much cheaper as well

bartillo
12-02-2009, 04:34
To those saying it's to promote cannon and warhulk use, yes we get it, but that doesn't change the point. Sure sieges are fun and all and adding more dynamics to them is cool. But medium sized pvp relies on raiding. You can't siege with a medium sized group and expect to win, pking random people at spawns with a medium sized group is no fun, so what do you do, you raid cities. Now the glory of the city raid is that it's quick, it's easy, and it's fun. You have large group dynamics but not siege numbers. It's charge the walls, hide out in the keep try to cut off bank access. Stronger gaurd towers could effectively remove this element from the game (once again assuming this is more then just a minor tweak which is the sense I get from the post). This would leave a huge gap between full on sieges and small pk parties. Raids are very common for a reason, they're fun, they're challenging, and they're easy to organize, and they cost nothing more then the gear you take. They're messing with on of the core elements of the game in a way that could remove it, that's the problem I have. Some people seem to like the idea that city raids should be only if you have a large group, but before you decide that just think about how will medium groups find pvp if that were the case.

I think villages since they will show the timers now, and the new sea objectives will become the pvp hotspots for "medium" groups.

Bored
12-02-2009, 04:39
well we know in the siege changes spotlight that you have to destroy walls in a siege now and you have to use cannons/warhulks ONLY, hammers wont work..
So many AV is planning to make it where you have to use cannons/warhulks on towers and major buildings also? Hammers should only be for banks and bind stones and other small structures.
Also just like they are reducing the costs of ships i am sure cannons and warhulks will become much cheaper as well
Even if they are cheaper, the main outing of medium sized pvp is city raids, and the advantage of city raids is that they are cheap, quick, easy to organize, and really fair for the most part. If there is a need to raze shit before you can effectively raid a city it'll take most of the appeal of city raids away and leave a large gap in the pvp pyramid that darkfall has honestly got down really well. Also how do you expect a group of 10 people to take down a towers while under fire and then be in good enough shape to run through and fight the now very well prepared defenders. A city SHOULD not defend itself, the towers really aren't a bother but do enough damage over time to actually be the difference between surviving and not. Now once again I'm assuming that this buff will be signifigent enough, otherwise they probably wouldn't have mentioned it or would have said a slight buff, or used some sort of preface to indicate that it was not a big change.

bartillo
12-02-2009, 04:42
crafters need protection against reds! and the only way for that to happen is either make guard towers more powerful like they are doing or they need to put in killable npc guards.

Bored
12-02-2009, 04:42
I think villages since they will show the timers now, and the new sea objectives will become the pvp hotspots for "medium" groups.
Villages don't offer enough incentive. It's not as much a matter of the time being hard to tell (though I admit it doesn't shove it down your face) but rather that there's no garuntee of pvp and the amount of gain from owning a village really isn't that signifigent. Also the sea objectives are naval combat which isn't something that appeals to everyone, and will probably be aimed mostly for large ship battles which require more then a medium sized group.

bartillo
12-02-2009, 04:45
Villages don't offer enough incentive. It's not as much a matter of the time being hard to tell (though I admit it doesn't shove it down your face) but rather that there's no garuntee of pvp and the amount of gain from owning a village really isn't that signifigent. Also the sea objectives are naval combat which isn't something that appeals to everyone, and will probably be aimed mostly for large ship battles which require more then a medium sized group.

pretty sure the villages with more houses yield more then villages with no houses or only a few..
I am thinking AV will prob up the amount of gold and such you get from village capture in the expansion as well.

Ragnarok Vanir
12-02-2009, 05:02
I don't know where all the QQ is coming from. So towers will do 10-15 damage now instead of 4-7? Do you really think it is going to be more than that?

I don't like towers any more than the next PvPer, but this isn't going to change anything. City raids will still happen. Raiders will just have to be more careful to not overstay their welcome. When was the last time any of you actually had fun killing nakeds at a bind stone for 30mins anyway?

TL:DR, increased tower damage isn't going to stop shit.

Also: If I had to choose this and higher walls, I'd go with this hands down. Higher walls would stop city raids altogether, while this will just make them a bit more challenging.

bartillo
12-02-2009, 05:06
Also: If I had to choose this and higher walls, I'd go with this hands down. Higher walls would stop city raids altogether, while this will just make them a bit more challenging.

actually i would prefer higher walls that you cant launch over.. you have to destroy the gate or the wall with warhulks or cannons to get inside.

I think all clan cities should require you to "seige" them by destroying there walls to be able to "raid" them at all.

spade547
12-02-2009, 05:14
:bang::bang::bang:

This new siege mechanic system has no relation whatsoever to my siege suggestions (http://http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=217290) and will be an epic fail.

What the fuck is AV smokin' to make them so delusional ?
HOOK ME UP! maybe i might have fun playing your game then.

Bored
12-02-2009, 05:18
I don't know where all the QQ is coming from. So towers will do 10-15 damage now instead of 4-7? Do you really think it is going to be more than that?

I don't like towers any more than the next PvPer, but this isn't going to change anything. City raids will still happen. Raiders will just have to be more careful to not overstay their welcome. When was the last time any of you actually had fun killing nakeds at a bind stone for 30mins anyway?

TL:DR, increased tower damage isn't going to stop shit.

Also: If I had to choose this and higher walls, I'd go with this hands down. Higher walls would stop city raids altogether, while this will just make them a bit more challenging.
You sound like your hanging with some pretty dull guys if you stay past the point they stop gearing. Plus towers doing 10-15 damage will make fighting in them a real pain especially for the more casual players who don't have 300-400 health. And the effect of the damage is more then just a little more damage to the raiders, what it does is it makes the amount of time you can fight in tower range shorter, makes it harder to heal up in tower range, leads to raiders having less options for where to be. Let's use 10 damage average on towers at once every 5 seconds. That's 2 dmg/s, might not seem like much but after a minute that's 120 health. Like I've said many times, this will only be a problem if the damage increase is signifigent. A small tweak will not really make a difference. I hope that it's a small tweak.

bartillo
12-02-2009, 05:20
the dmg increase needs to be significant to protect player hamlets and cities.
I am pretty sure its significant or else the devs would not have mentioned it.
They are trying to protect cities from random PKs
as ive said over and over, AV is thinking about the meta game. requiting in sieges to destroy walls and towers with warhulks.

To attack a city you should have to bring siege equipment, period.

Bored
12-02-2009, 05:31
the dmg increase needs to be significant to protect player hamlets and cities.
I am pretty sure its significant or else the devs would not have mentioned it.
They are trying to protect cities from random PKs
as ive said over and over, AV is thinking about the meta game. requiting in sieges to destroy walls and towers with warhulks.

To attack a city you should have to bring siege equipment, period.
The problem with that logic is that first off towers SHOULD NOT protect cities or hamlets, they should help the defenders but really shouldn't be a signifigent factor. Same reasons why we don't have pets in this game, should be the player playing. Secondly although sieges need some improvement it should not come at the detriment of what has really become the core of the game. Most real pvp (as in not pking someone half health with 5 guys, that's fine and all but not a real fight) happens in the form of raids, so yes it's great that they're thinking about sieges but it should not deter city raids in the process.

Garamis
12-02-2009, 05:52
Well done!!

princereaper
12-02-2009, 06:07
Again i didnt read really any peoples comments.

but if they making warhulks and other siege weapons cheaper, then of course the towers need to be stronger.

its all balance people...balance.

the defenders should always have the advantage in a siege.
1.behind a wall
2.they are the defending party
3.the attackers have nothing to lose
4.it should be harder for attackers to take a city.


i think if this works out, then AV might in the future, cut the 24 siege time down.

Jyrkoon
12-02-2009, 06:31
nice change with the towers and nice crying here :D, i hope city better protect to enemys in future.

Uncletouchme
12-02-2009, 06:37
(edit)The problem with that logic is that first off towers SHOULD NOT protect cities or hamlets, they should help the attackers but really shouldn't be a signifigent factor. (/edit)


I know siege mechanics is a fight on both side right up there with abortions, but this is either a type-O or I don't know what....

Someone tell me why one would go through all the trouble of resource gathering to create towers for "THEIR" city to aid the attackers and not themselves??? :eek: :confused:

If this were true this conversion has just been ended forever - player city towers would just never exist period.

Bored
12-02-2009, 07:20
I know siege mechanics is a fight on both side right up there with abortions, but this is either a type-O or I don't know what....

Someone tell me why one would go through all the trouble of resource gathering to create towers for "THEIR" city to aid the attackers and not themselves??? :eek: :confused:

If this were true this conversion has just been ended forever - player city towers would just never exist period.
Whoops might need to edit that one to say defenders there :P Obviously I don't really proof read my posts.:cool:

Azraine
12-02-2009, 07:20
I applaud this move. Cities should be the cites for sieges not raids. People build and live in cities so as not to be raided...

Everyone whinging is just a whimp. Get some real gear, if you want to kill people in a city, prepare to kill a city, not just run in and out regen a tower.

There needs to be something in place to stop the whole "run in kill all the nakeds at 3 am, then siege and sit around defending the city your meant to be attacking until hammer time." cause that is just lol tastic. Even with the longer time theres no reason you cant do that. Its even easier because you can just bind at your stone close by in case you die.

Damaging towers that are noticeable is a good solution.

Bored
12-02-2009, 07:27
I applaud this move. Cities should be the cites for sieges not raids. People build and live in cities so as not to be raided...

Everyone whinging is just a whimp. Get some real gear, if you want to kill people in a city, prepare to kill a city, not just run in and out regen a tower.

There needs to be something in place to stop the whole "run in kill all the nakeds at 3 am, then siege and sit around defending the city your meant to be attacking until hammer time." cause that is just lol tastic. Even with the longer time theres no reason you cant do that. Its even easier because you can just bind at your stone close by in case you die.

Damaging towers that are noticeable is a good solution.
Well there's no way your holding that city for 24 fucking hours. Besides half the fun in living in a city is getting raided. Who the fuck are you to say "cities aren't for raiding" when clearly it's one of the most common forms of gameplay in darkfall. But ya you can't hold an enemy city for 24 hours so the run in at 3am and lock down the city till siege goes live won't happen. Any attempts to lock down the city before the siege will be 10 times as hard when the enemy has such advance notice as well, and if you can control the enemy city under such conditions all the power too ya.

Kain119
12-02-2009, 07:34
This game was supposed to have no boundries, and now they are increasing the damage on the towers. SImply retarted. If you cant defend a city you shouldnt own a city. Leave it to the players, and not your magic zap towers, to control the flow of a fight.

Abremalist
12-02-2009, 08:33
Having guard towers on hamlets suckety, suck suck!!

Sorry.

Abremalist
12-02-2009, 08:39
To be more articulate.

Raiding hamlets was one of the most fun you could do solo or with just a friend or two, even so it was a high-risk enterprise.

Why for gods sake make it harder? And critical hits? I have for once scream CAREBEAR.

Cities have been modified so there will be more large-style sieges. And you need a massive alliance with lots of recourses. Ok. Fine.

But why push even harder, so you have to roll 10+ to do anything remotly fun except killing harvesters or jumping reds on good mobspawns? And I honestly do not count what people with 415 hitpoints, four elementals to 100+ and 80 weapon mastery can do.

Yes, I am butt-hurt over this. To quote a friend from a smaller guild 'there goes the only chance we had to get any good rare ores'.

Caaahl
12-02-2009, 08:43
'there goes the only chance we had to get any good rare ores'.

We should stop acting as if we already knew everything about the Expansion and the coming changes. :rolleyes:

kingkongbanana
12-02-2009, 08:48
I see that this joke is here still. Hehe yeah it was funny but remove it now so that noone is dumb enough to believe it.

FKNCrazy
12-02-2009, 09:16
Lmfao, if this is what they are doing this expansion I can't possibly imagine next expansion. Let me guess, next expansion we won't be able to kill mounts and we'll buy them one off for 90g right?

Saami
12-02-2009, 09:37
I don't know where all the QQ is coming from. So towers will do 10-15 damage now instead of 4-7? Do you really think it is going to be more than that?

I don't like towers any more than the next PvPer, but this isn't going to change anything. City raids will still happen. Raiders will just have to be more careful to not overstay their welcome. When was the last time any of you actually had fun killing nakeds at a bind stone for 30mins anyway?

TL:DR, increased tower damage isn't going to stop shit.

Also: If I had to choose this and higher walls, I'd go with this hands down. Higher walls would stop city raids altogether, while this will just make them a bit more challenging.


DUUUUH. THIS. 24 hours lockdown at a city people just declared seige on now involves taking out the tower (oh so costly to rebuild) OR losing gear as they lockdown the city from getting defenders coming in 1 at a time by bindkick. You all FAIL for not seeing the tactic, and AV's counter. You're still worried about how to solo raid the mine and gank 1 freakin afker at 3 AM.

Uncletouchme
12-02-2009, 09:40
Lmfao, if this is what they are doing this expansion I can't possibly imagine next expansion. Let me guess, next expansion we won't be able to kill mounts and we'll buy them one off for 90g right?

Nah... there will be player created farms were they are herded and players will need to physically tame them by drawing them to you will the steed grass and then riding them to break them in by a skill. Low skill - they buck you off and loose the mount and the steed grass. Higher the skill easier to break them in. You'll also have a Herd skill to find and russel them up in the wild to fence them up on your farm. So you could actually herd up any races mount if you went to those areas they roamed.

bartillo
12-02-2009, 09:51
Nah... there will be player created farms were they are herded and players will need to physically tame them by drawing them to you will the steed grass and then riding them to break them in by a skill. Low skill - they buck you off and loose the mount and the steed grass. Higher the skill easier to break them in. You'll also have a Herd skill to find and russel them up in the wild to fence them up on your farm. So you could actually herd up any races mount if you went to those areas they roamed.

thats awesome ^^
i hope they add that foreal.. we need a real taming skill for mounts.. you should have to tame your mounts in the wild not magically create them.

dbmk
12-02-2009, 09:59
Critical hits? WTF? What game are you thinking of? Critical hits are completely noob pussy shit. Random chance is not how you make a game like this. Leave the random chance to the player skill, timing, etc, not in a spell mechanic. Oops the tower crit you for 100 damage, game over. Maybe next time you'll get lucky and it won't crit. Horrible idea Aventurine.

Not to rain on your parade, but this game is filled with random elements. Whether its skill ups, crafting, damage, fizzles or mob drops.

And your 100 crit damage is pulled out from where the sun don't shine.

blob
12-02-2009, 10:05
crafters need protection against reds! and the only way for that to happen is either make guard towers more powerful like they are doing or they need to put in killable npc guards.

are you crazy, why crafters need protection ???? so they can craft afk in safty ?????

hey you know what I need personal guard tower to protect me while farming mobs buyable from npc merchants. its for my safty when farming.

players and clans that owns towns should protect them not towers. If clan ddoes not have players to defend 3-4 towns they own players shold raid them and steal ore and stuff from towns.

and yes fast fun and pvp is from raiding towns for 3-4 man groups why kill this.

raiding mount: zap tower from starter town , next zap tower from player towns , then next you go south and look zap tower from helmet. what a bullshit

RonarcBracklaw
12-02-2009, 10:16
Hamlets aren't empty because they don't have towers; they're empty because they're useless in terms of crafting. They make great bind kicks for traveling around faster and if they have a node, you can hit that on server up and down.

If hamlets had 1 crafting station each they'd be decent for the smaller clans. you would just have to choose your hamlet wisely depending on what crafting station you wanted :)

Also, I guess smithy and blacksmith would be counted as a package.

THAT would get people using hamlets, and it would get PvP at hamlets bc I know I for one would be looking for crafters to stalk :ninja::ninja:

Also, I guess I'm okay with dmg increase if it's only slightly, but I REALLY enjoyed sneaking into hamlets :(

smoke2000
12-02-2009, 10:54
I would also like a portable tower that I can attach to my mount so I can ride around pew pew'ing people and if we get a nice group together we can provoke epilepsy attacks and insta kills.

Agarnaoum
12-02-2009, 11:25
Noone was ever intended to raid a fucking hamlet or clan city all by himself.


You mean PVP isn't intended?

If you and your guild got owned that often by solo raiders then maybe you're just... bad? And towers can't do nothing against that, sorry.

Sad.


the devs are trying to balance! they dont want you raiding cities every day...

And what are we supposed to do everyday? Play another game?


the dmg increase needs to be significant to protect player hamlets and cities.


Protections? The word you're looking for is gear.


crafters need protection against reds!

And it begins...

I really hope you're some kind of troll.

smootrok
12-02-2009, 11:25
Good idea!

City raids will still happen only they will get a little harder. More fun and more people and more skill needed.

Nannari
12-02-2009, 11:27
People do not know how much these hamlet towers will cost to build, people do not know how significant the damage buff to the existing towers is, people would not know much about anything around the fact that "X" will be in the patch-notes. And yet, the blood of severed e-peens flow like the river Nile.

It's good to see the DF community never changes. :)

mightyme
12-02-2009, 12:05
World is underpopulated so people need to got to cities to find people, going to cities with buffed guardtowers wont be attractive.

Sysco
12-02-2009, 12:27
I would rather have put resources in the tower to make them operational
(sorry google translat)

alfar1
12-02-2009, 12:50
Increasing damage on guard towers is lame.

10 11 2000
12-02-2009, 13:07
You mean PVP isn't intended?

If you and your guild got owned that often by solo raiders then maybe you're just... bad? And towers can't do nothing against that, sorry.


Let me know when you reach level 25 in Reading Comprehension.

fuzion
12-02-2009, 13:10
This patch is going to be great for carebears and clans. Its going to suck for solo players because there wont be any cities that can be soloed anymore. Any naked noob can get on a tower and fight you off now.

10 11 2000
12-02-2009, 13:25
This patch is going to be great for carebears and clans. Its going to suck for solo players because there wont be any cities that can be soloed anymore. Any naked noob can get on a tower and fight you off now.

What makes you think that what you just described is bad / wrong / not intended?

alfar1
12-02-2009, 13:41
What makes you think that what you just described is bad / wrong / not intended?

I guess you need some classes in reading comprehension yourself.
He didn't say bad period, he said bad for solo players.

L-C
12-02-2009, 14:18
World is underpopulated so people need to got to cities to find people, going to cities with buffed guardtowers wont be attractive.

This is the worst excuse out of all the shitty excuses you guys have made up. Man up you pussies. Cities shouldn't be a treasure trove of free loot with no risk involved. They are supposed to be a stronghold for their owning clan. There's no fucking clan out there that can provide around the clock protection for their non-combatants. That doesn't mean everyone should have to log off at 10pm.

STEELRAIN
12-02-2009, 18:42
This is the worst excuse out of all the shitty excuses you guys have made up. Man up you pussies. Cities shouldn't be a treasure trove of free loot with no risk involved. They are supposed to be a stronghold for their owning clan. There's no fucking clan out there that can provide around the clock protection for their non-combatants. That doesn't mean everyone should have to log off at 10pm.

AGREED 100% clans work hard for their cities and the way it is now raids happen all the time. I have rarely seen a raid fail cause no one is expecting it (i know, the idea of the raid) but once they get there and kill off the crafters and what not they beat on people at the bindstone who cant do anything. Cities should be harder to raid and take, they take alot of work to build and maintain. Towers are needed and should do more damage cause all they do right now is show you where the bad guys are.

GRCPan
12-02-2009, 18:57
This is the worst excuse out of all the shitty excuses you guys have made up. Man up you pussies. Cities shouldn't be a treasure trove of free loot with no risk involved. They are supposed to be a stronghold for their owning clan. There's no fucking clan out there that can provide around the clock protection for their non-combatants. That doesn't mean everyone should have to log off at 10pm.

I wonder who is the pussy, the one that wants more protection from NPCs or the one that wants to attack that person.
Also cities were supposed to be like the NPC cities where, depending on the clans policy, other players that are not in the alliance would be able to use.

If you are so scared of being attacked and get your macroers killed, maybe give up on your city.

kdchan
12-02-2009, 19:08
I wonder who is the pussy, the one that wants more protection from NPCs or the one that wants to attack that person.
Also cities were supposed to be like the NPC cities where, depending on the clans policy, other players that are not in the alliance would be able to use.

If you are so scared of being attacked and get your macroers killed, maybe give up on your city.

I own a city and i never use it for a carebear isle or macroing AFK because i never macro AFK. So this shit about macro paradise is not valid fir all ok?

So who is the carebear here? You that want sneak into my town and kill all or me that want more protection from a 500 module zap tower?
Stfu dude and if u want sneak into a city bring more people.

PS: If you notice someone macro afk in a town just report to GM and the guy will be kicked/banned. Easy not?

STEELRAIN
12-02-2009, 19:20
I own a city and i never use it for a carebear isle or macroing AFK because i never macro AFK. So this shit about macro paradise is not valid fir all ok?

So who is the carebear here? You that want sneak into my town and kill all or me that want more protection from a 500 module zap tower?
Stfu dude and if u want sneak into a city bring more people.

PS: If you notice someone macro afk in a town just report to GM and the guy will be kicked/banned. Easy not?

Usually the people that raid , want it as easy as possible. They dont own cities of their own, so they have no idea what it takes to build it. All they know is is that they should be able to walk right in and kill everyone and get all the loot. Wait till they implement local banking, then they cant bank what loot they do get.

bartillo
12-02-2009, 19:21
Usually the people that raid , want it as easy as possible. They dont own cities of their own, so they have no idea what it takes to build it. All they know is is that they should be able to walk right in and kill everyone and get all the loot. Wait till they implement local banking, then they cant bank what loot they do get.

devs NEED to add bank permissions this expansion really.. If someone raids your city they SHOULD NOT be able to use your bank to bank there shit.

10 11 2000
12-02-2009, 19:40
i guess you need some classes in reading comprehension yourself.
He didn't say bad period, he said bad for solo players.

i lol'd.

Kasmos
12-02-2009, 20:05
Yeah I've done the same thing. People like to cry "carebear" but really they're the carebears whining because an ezmode game mechanic is being taken away from them.

Exactly my thoughts on this. People supporting the idea of having some sort of defense in hamlets get called carebears. The REAL carebears that want to be able to harvest from mines/farms/etc without any threat or attack naked harvesters without any threat are the ones that are fucking carebear.

Seriously, how many "awesome, super cool" hamlet raids have you done? I know myself, a primarily solo PvPer on NA-1, rarely, rarely find any PvP worthwhile in hamlets. Most of the time it's just me killing naked nubs or AFK harvesters.

Ooohhhh.... such awesome fucking PvP....

VooDoo Hex
12-02-2009, 20:19
I dont like this idea if it will be virtually impossible to heal through the tower dmg. People should still be able to raid a city. Maybe the system messages should be beefed up though and detect enemies further out then the walls so the people within can have time to assemble a defense team. I dont see an issue with system messages warning the city owners of enemies spotted NW of the city. It kind of models how it would be if you have gaurds on the towers 24/7 scouting for enemies.

Guess we will have to see how this is implemented but my first thoughts are "it will be bad". Hopefully I am wrong. :cool:

VooDoo Hex
12-02-2009, 20:20
Exactly my thoughts on this. People supporting the idea of having some sort of defense in hamlets get called carebears. The REAL carebears that want to be able to harvest from mines/farms/etc without any threat or attack naked harvesters without any threat are the ones that are fucking carebear.

Seriously, how many "awesome, super cool" hamlet raids have you done? I know myself, a primarily solo PvPer on NA-1, rarely, rarely find any PvP worthwhile in hamlets. Most of the time it's just me killing naked nubs or AFK harvesters.

Ooohhhh.... such awesome fucking PvP....

Take a trip to skogal, bladethorpe, or spearwaters sometime. There is quite often PVP there.

Bored
12-02-2009, 20:42
AGREED 100% clans work hard for their cities and the way it is now raids happen all the time. I have rarely seen a raid fail cause no one is expecting it (i know, the idea of the raid) but once they get there and kill off the crafters and what not they beat on people at the bindstone who cant do anything. Cities should be harder to raid and take, they take alot of work to build and maintain. Towers are needed and should do more damage cause all they do right now is show you where the bad guys are.
Well actually I find most raids come from people in neighbouring cities, unless your living on a carebear island where usually the only enemies around are those that live in chaos cities. If you've rarely seen a raid fail then you probably don't have a very good defense. I've lived in plenty of cities and as long as people are active and those who are stay geared then it's fairly easy to mount a quick defense. Most reds get spotted well before they reach a city and if they don't the second that city message pops up someone just needs to announce it in Clan Alliance and people should be able to drop what they're doing and fight.

Rekshop
12-02-2009, 20:48
Guys, guys, chill. I've got a solution.

As part of the skill specialization rollout, give options for specializing in some sort of scouting/sneaking abilities.

-Lowers range that towers can detect you.
-Limits damage you take from towers. (maybe special armor for this instead of skill spec)
-Some kind of radar that detects players w/in a proximity (why not since the cheaters already have it)
-Some temporary speed buff??
-Sniping shot from bow - Blinds the target for x amount of seconds, does high end dmg of weapon, hard to see and dodge b/c travels faster and w/ hardly any arc, put it on a long cooldown, say 3 minutes.

I mean, what people are really pissed about is that a small group can no longer pull of smash and grab raids on cities. This is a style of play that you should be able to "spec" into by giving up something else.

Meh, maybe it's getting more into classes and less into freedom to play everything but isn't that what they are doing with the "mage killer" specialization. You give up character abilities to gain others. Once you deviate from letting everyone train everything, you move toward the traditional classes. It's the amount of specialization that people have different tolerances for.

What do you guys think about these abilites?

GRCPan
12-02-2009, 21:01
I own a city and i never use it for a carebear isle or macroing AFK because i never macro AFK. So this shit about macro paradise is not valid fir all ok?

So who is the carebear here? You that want sneak into my town and kill all or me that want more protection from a 500 module zap tower?
Stfu dude and if u want sneak into a city bring more people.

PS: If you notice someone macro afk in a town just report to GM and the guy will be kicked/banned. Easy not?

I live in a city too and I never macro either, others do though.
Bring more people? What part of that is sneaking? Also you can't sneak in a city anyway, since the towers instantly show your location. Basically you are saying that someone that wants more protection from NPCs is less of a carebear of someone that wants to do PvP... OK I guess if that's your opinion I can't change that.

PS: I won't report my clan mates kkthxbye.


Anyway on the subject now. One better idea would be to have tower damage scale depending on the amount of people (of the clan that own the city or are allied with that clan) that are in the city. So if there are many players of the clan inside the city, the tower is less effective, if there are more players, the tower is more effective. Of course this shouldn't apply for sieges so that it won't get exploited.

Arkh
12-02-2009, 21:12
naked harvesters

You can harvest with gear and retaliate. Harvesting naked in safe spots is the carebear part of this story.

Uncletouchme
12-02-2009, 21:17
I see a lot of crying, and thinking that all this crying is coming from those who come solo or groups of 3 - jump walls and gank afk bloodwallers to gain a few points on the boards. And later... "Dude I just killed 17 in one fight." And you get your - "Dude, you rock. My PVP skills ain't half yours..." And you run with this with happy swollen head.. The added damage to towers now won't let them get their same kill numbers....awe...:( Plus sounds like they may have adjusted the wall height as well. Just another crying moment.:ohno:

You'll just have to come with a bigger group, might even be more fun. But don't go out of your way and hurt yourself now. Think of it as a console game difficultly level - you'd played it 1 time through, next run - up the difficulty level and run again. What's next - you want targeting circles for AOE spells...sheesh.

Corpsepoker
12-02-2009, 22:20
What's next - you want targeting circles for AOE spells...sheesh.

lol. When I talked to you about this I was kinda kidding. :lmao:

Since the animation for Impale change, was if you had to change the way you aim it.

I'm pretty happy with the rest of it. People Might actually have to go out and farm regs. :ohno:

Uncletouchme
12-02-2009, 23:44
lol. When I talked to you about this I was kinda kidding. :lmao:

Since the animation for Impale change, was if you had to change the way you aim it.

I'm pretty happy with the rest of it. People Might actually have to go out and farm regs. :ohno:

ah.... wut? wasn't aimed your way....yet :sly:

SHo
12-03-2009, 01:19
This is thefirst carebare move for sure I can think of... great

Yoda
12-03-2009, 03:14
No safe zones. Full loot. PvP everywhere with accountability.
i lold

BAKehT
12-03-2009, 11:12
I severely dislike this.

FKNCrazy
12-03-2009, 11:43
This is the worst excuse out of all the shitty excuses you guys have made up. Man up you pussies. Cities shouldn't be a treasure trove of free loot with no risk involved. They are supposed to be a stronghold for their owning clan. There's no fucking clan out there that can provide around the clock protection for their non-combatants. That doesn't mean everyone should have to log off at 10pm.

What the fuck are you talking about?
My clan has 55 members, maybe 35 - 40 actives total and we protect our city round the clock no problem. We defended it around the clock when it had no walls, no guard towers. The only time it gets successfully raided is when people bring 20+ (more like 30+). If you can't gear up and defend your city with the help of fucking retarded guard towers you deserve to die to the better player and you don't even deserve to hold a city. Since when did cities provide good loot with no risk at all? Are you retarded? Do you PvP at all? There is always risk, sometimes very small risk but there is always risk, and when there is small risk there is no reward or very minimal reward.
I don't go to cities to fight OP guard towers, I go to fight players. I don't camp banks and not let people gear up. Notice how the successful clans will always stay geared in their cities? Maybe you should take some tips from them or just do what every other clan does and comfort themselves with numbers.

kdchan
12-03-2009, 11:54
What the fuck are you talking about?
My clan has 55 members, maybe 35 - 40 actives total and we protect our city round the clock no problem. We defended it around the clock when it had no walls, no guard towers. The only time it gets successfully raided is when people bring 20+ (more like 30+). If you can't gear up and defend your city with the help of fucking retarded guard towers you deserve to die to the better player and you don't even deserve to hold a city. Since when did cities provide good loot with no risk at all? Are you retarded? Do you PvP at all? There is always risk, sometimes very small risk but there is always risk, and when there is small risk there is no reward or very minimal reward.
I don't go to cities to fight OP guard towers, I go to fight players. I don't camp banks and not let people gear up. Notice how the successful clans will always stay geared in their cities? Maybe you should take some tips from them or just do what every other clan does and comfort themselves with numbers.

QQ more, Now you cant' increase your death counter easy versus some naked ppl in player cities. You suck.

Agarnaoum
12-03-2009, 11:58
What do you all mean by freeloot?

With the system channel, crafters and macroers have enough time to bank their stuff and gear up. Afk-crafters don't deserve any particular protections, afk-macroers deserve to be kicked. So if by freeloot you mean looting afks, then i guess this is totally ok for almost everyone.

And what do you mean by raiding without any threat?

If you are geared and organized you are a threat. But seems like you rather be protected by towers than your own stuff (you could loose it... who knows). If you dislike PVP that much, why are you playing DFO?

I would agree with some advantages for city owners such as better buffs, private banks and maybe npc guards. Same thing for hamlets. But better towers is the worst idea ever because it will probably fuck up even PVP encounters.

You don't want small scale pvp in cities? It's ok, you will now face zergs and asset destructions. Raids will happen less often and fail less often too, they will be leaving no afks alive and no possibility to organize a proper defense, and they will be much more expensive for city owners.

Maybe it's a great change for PVP... who knows?


I see a lot of crying, and thinking that all this crying is coming from those who come solo or groups of 3 - jump walls and gank afk bloodwallers to gain a few points on the boards. And later... "Dude I just killed 17 in one fight." And you get your - "Dude, you rock. My PVP skills ain't half yours..." And you run with this with happy swollen head.. The added damage to towers now won't let them get their same kill numbers....awe...:(

I feel bad for you... :(

FKNCrazy
12-03-2009, 12:30
QQ more, Now you cant' increase your death counter easy versus some naked ppl in player cities. You suck.

You obviously didn't read anything I wrote, gw. If the devs take what we say "to heart" I will QQ about something that is so carebear friendly and stupid. Carebears QQ all day about the stupidest shit and the devs listen to them.. lol. Guard towers in hamlets? Lol WTF is that, the reason people don't live in/defend hamlets is because they aren't useful. Make hamlets useful and all of a sudden you've got people defending them.. problem solved.

Anyways, inb4 village guard towers (lolwut?). <--- Remember, I predicted it.

Falokis
12-03-2009, 18:53
I don't mind these new towers, but I still hate the ones at chaos banks.

Brazlar
12-03-2009, 19:21
Take away system message and towers !

I agree on the system messages. Tower removal thoh, that aint so cool. But the messages, yes, remove them! Their just carebear material. If an allaince has too many holdings, why shud they get alerts, and then be able to bindstone kick/teleport around to get u?

If a Hamlets mine is left open for raiding, then so be it. Messages should stop.

With the hammer nerf vs wall's, and artillery being the only real viable option, rare ores need to be made more available to smaller guilds. Removing system messages would aid small raiding guilds to obtain ore so much more.

stony23
12-03-2009, 19:27
the first time i saw a tower in darkfall i was like WTF is this??? now after almost a year im like hey i almost forgot...towers do suck wtf is a zapping tower?!? comon AV dont be ridiculous give us some npc guards or something else but no stupid zapping tower

flasher702
12-03-2009, 19:27
Since it is much more effective now to gain skills at mobs i think it is ok to give a little more protection to holdings. They are ofc still no safe zones, but the tower dmg was just ridiculously low so far.

It's true that zap towers were not horribly effective defenses and needed buffing but I don't thing increasing raw damage is the best way to buff them up. IMO the towers themselves shouldn't kill people they should just make it easier for active people in the city to kill intruders. If everyone is AFK the zap tower shouldn't stop someone from ganking you. Slowing effects, knockbacks, burdening, increased range, STA or Mana drain, visual markers (ie light them up with a special fire or make the zap grafic last much longer so it makes it easy to tell who the intruders are), and etc. Different cities would have different option available (that would largely be influenced by REGION ie slowing frost effects in snowy places, STA draining poison effects in jungle places) and city builders would have to choose a subset of the available options (ex: 2 of 4 available options in that city out of the 10 options available world wide. ie CUSTOMIZATION) for each zap tower they want to upgrade. THAT would be an example of game design that allows a lot of player discretion and diversity and would make the towers a lot more powerful while still forcing active players to do the bulk of the work and allowing attackers options to try and neutralize the effects. Just upping the damage is weaksauce.

flasher702
12-03-2009, 19:29
I don't mind these new towers, but I still hate the ones at chaos banks.
...if it has a tower it's not a chaos bank. Fix your alignment or quit QQing ;)

Allort
12-03-2009, 19:38
More damage from towers May mean that its harder to raid a city

May mean you have to take better gear to raid a city and more people

May stop the one person jumping into a city and trying to cause havok

May mean defenders face larger groups more often

May mean be a good thing to help out clans in thier own city a bit as atm they dont actualy get any help

Hamlet towers may mean that smaller clans now can effectivly own a hamlet and defend it if they have no where else to base them selves (important point that is not considered i think)

May be a bad thing

May be a good thing

.... hmm im not sure if its December or May anymore... maybe ill just WAIT FOR THE FUCKING EXPANSION




(yer should have posted this way before patch day but im lazy - not long to wait now)

flasher702
12-03-2009, 19:42
You can harvest with gear and retaliate. Harvesting naked in safe spots is the carebear part of this story.
That would be great! But only if you have some kind of warning that they are coming. The reason people harvest naked is because there are no "safe spots" and even if they geared up they probably wouldn't get a chance to fight back. Let's be serious here: If 3 or more people sync attacks on you before even know they are there it's hopeless. You just lost over half your HP and all you know is that there is more than one person behind you. Only an idiot would gear up and then alt-tab out without some kind of way to get warning that PvP is happening soon and only an extreme loser with no life would stare intently at the screen that is just showing a progress bar over and over and look around constantly for hours while harvesting. You need to be able to be alt-tabbed out and still have a decent chance at getting a few seconds warning before they hit you. Otherwise you're just donating gear to people who think it's l33t to PK AFKs. Why would you give extra gear to losers like that in order to harvest the materials that are *required* to play parts of the game?

Or harvesting needs to be completely reimagined so that it requires active player interaction and isn't insanely boring. Otherwise naked harvesting in a relatively safe place is the only way to go for anyone who isn't a moron and/or loser.

flasher702
12-03-2009, 19:52
What the fuck are you talking about?
My clan has 55 members, maybe 35 - 40 actives total and we protect our city round the clock no problem. We defended it around the clock when it had no walls, no guard towers. The only time it gets successfully raided is when people bring 20+ (more like 30+).
If you can't gear up and defend your city with the help of fucking retarded guard towers you deserve to die to the better player
if by "better player" you mean "guy who has no life and plays video games too much" then you have a point. Not a good one, but you're at least making sense. If you by "better player" you mean any of the following: good aim, good strategy, good teamwork, stealth, cunning, skill, etc then you're wrong. None of those things have anything to do with guarding a city while semi-afk for hours a day.

flasher702
12-03-2009, 19:57
Afk-crafters don't deserve any particular protections(
Because people who stare at progress bars while crafting are l33t, hardcore, people. Getting bored of the progress bar, reading the flood of system messages, and listening to the sound of your own crafting hoping to hear footsteps is a sign that you are a carebear. l33t PvPers ENJOY doing non-interactive PvE tasks relishing the fact that someone might come and donate additional gear to help them craft more. Doing something more meaningful with your life instead of watching a progress bar is a sign of weakness and should be punished!

Deca
12-03-2009, 20:29
Fighting guard towers is not PvP.

Player Cities & Hamlets are not meant to be safe havens for afk crafting & macroing regardless of how boring it might be.

If a player wants to afk craft/macro in their city, then they've made their choice to be afk. Deal with the risk & don't expect otherwise.

If a clan of players are naked & continually getting killed in their own city and unable to gear up because 1-4 geared raiders have locked down the bank....then they deserve to lose if their clan/alliance cannot kill them.

If you cannot police yourself & your city/hamlet, then it was not yours to begin with.

There are not supposed to be any safe places in DFO --- not even the starter cities.


The problem is, in most gamers, in an effort to accomodate the ceaseless whining carebears the devs will continually make alterations that eventually fuck up the PvP.

Sadly the carebears fail to realize that in a PvP system that most of the "problems" that carebears like to whine about are dealt with & handled perfectly fine by the skilled/competent players.

Unfortunately, the carebears would rather have in-game blanket protection mechanisms enforced upon the server to not have free action due to a plethora of game contraints that will eventually give the carebear the safe haven which is ultimately desired....despite all their bullshit "for the good of the game" rhetoric.

Aerias
12-03-2009, 20:42
Fighting guard towers is not PvP.

Player Cities & Hamlets are not meant to be safe havens for afk crafting & macroing regardless of how boring it might be.

If a player wants to afk craft/macro in their city, then they've made their choice to be afk. Deal with the risk & don't expect otherwise.

If a clan of players are naked & continually getting killed in their own city and unable to gear up because 1-4 geared raiders have locked down the bank....then they deserve to lose if their clan/alliance cannot kill them.

If you cannot police yourself & your city/hamlet, then it was not yours to begin with.

There are not supposed to be any safe places in DFO --- not even the starter cities.


The problem is, in most gamers, in an effort to accomodate the ceaseless whining carebears the devs will continually make alterations that eventually fuck up the PvP.

Sadly the carebears fail to realize that in a PvP system that most of the "problems" that carebears like to whine about are dealt with & handled perfectly fine by the skilled/competent players.

Unfortunately, the carebears would rather have in-game blanket protection mechanisms enforced upon the server to not have free action due to a plethora of game contraints that will eventually give the carebear the safe haven which is ultimately desired....despite all their bullshit "for the good of the game" rhetoric.

tl:dr : Q_Q

kdchan
12-04-2009, 00:16
Fighting guard towers is not PvP.

Player Cities & Hamlets are not meant to be safe havens for afk crafting & macroing regardless of how boring it might be.

If a player wants to afk craft/macro in their city, then they've made their choice to be afk. Deal with the risk & don't expect otherwise.

If a clan of players are naked & continually getting killed in their own city and unable to gear up because 1-4 geared raiders have locked down the bank....then they deserve to lose if their clan/alliance cannot kill them.

If you cannot police yourself & your city/hamlet, then it was not yours to begin with.

There are not supposed to be any safe places in DFO --- not even the starter cities.


The problem is, in most gamers, in an effort to accomodate the ceaseless whining carebears the devs will continually make alterations that eventually fuck up the PvP.

Sadly the carebears fail to realize that in a PvP system that most of the "problems" that carebears like to whine about are dealt with & handled perfectly fine by the skilled/competent players.

Unfortunately, the carebears would rather have in-game blanket protection mechanisms enforced upon the server to not have free action due to a plethora of game contraints that will eventually give the carebear the safe haven which is ultimately desired....despite all their bullshit "for the good of the game" rhetoric.

You sure are one of these hardcore e-peen players who want all cities and town and kill newbs in startign area. People like you don't deserve to play mmorpgs at all. hope they put in more protection for newbs till u leave.
Now QQ more or stfu.

Bored
12-04-2009, 00:52
You sure are one of these hardcore e-peen players who want all cities and town and kill newbs in startign area. People like you don't deserve to play mmorpgs at all. hope they put in more protection for newbs till u leave.
Now QQ more or stfu.
I love how people without a good argument jump straight too qq moar and your just a loser nananananana. People like you should not be able to talk.

Anyways, I've said my point a million times and this debate seems to have nothing new being added, so I don't really have anything to add. Would just like to say if your down to name calling and wild accusations, just stfu. We don't need straw man arguments and Ad hominems.

hengle
12-04-2009, 02:29
far as im concerned if you wanna be some pussy who crafts naked, dont join a clan and just sit in the npc cities with your guard tower safety. if you want to get involved in clan warfare, gear your sorry ass up, turn your sound up, and learn to listen to your surroundings. cant be sitting in your city jerking off while you craft 600 timber at a time. grow a pair of balls, you're a crafter, you have no excuse to have no gear to wear while crafting. and if you're a pure killer/pker then you have ZERO excuse for being ok with this change.

pussiesssssssssssssss, stop trying trying to hide it, no one here(that isnt a pussy) buys it.

campino87
12-04-2009, 02:34
More damage from towers May mean that its harder to raid a city

May mean you have to take better gear to raid a city and more people

May stop the one person jumping into a city and trying to cause havok

May mean defenders face larger groups more often

May mean be a good thing to help out clans in thier own city a bit as atm they dont actualy get any help

Hamlet towers may mean that smaller clans now can effectivly own a hamlet and defend it if they have no where else to base them selves (important point that is not considered i think)

May be a bad thing

May be a good thing

.... hmm im not sure if its December or May anymore... maybe ill just WAIT FOR THE FUCKING EXPANSION




(yer should have posted this way before patch day but im lazy - not long to wait now)

agree!

DaveDFF
12-04-2009, 03:16
Man, you guys are really trashing this game....

I thought AV wasn't listening to carebears?

It isn't the carebears, the ones whining because AV are taking away the arsehole we can't loose m,ecuanics and replacing with real game content and mechanics. Hillarious.

Luuranko
12-04-2009, 03:59
This is very Bad News ,Trammel all over again :bang:

Dragoon
12-04-2009, 05:29
There are not supposed to be any safe places in DFO --- not even the starter cities.

You can attack anyone anywhere in Darkfall, you just have to face the consequences. The problem is you don't want to face consequences, which makes you the carebear.

You're whining when you don't even know ow much damage towers do. Currently they do practically no damage, even if damage is doubled it's still possible to raid cities without them being an issue. Stop being a crybaby.

SiKness
12-04-2009, 05:41
Oh nice

RelentlesCoward
12-04-2009, 07:23
My previous complaints about the new siege mechanics fucking over smaller alliances and clans has just been put at ease.

Nice work Aventurine. Can't wait for Thursday/Friday!

This.

Also time for the more mature audience that wants to play Darkfall to come flooding in. If the QQers accustomed to easy kills and easy raids don't like the game maturing up and getting balanced can always say farewell.
For any 2 of those people leaving, probably 3 more new players will be coming in, because they would love a more mature and balanced version of Darkfall.

Thank you Aventurine for catering to the sane crowd.

RelentlesCoward
12-04-2009, 07:25
Fixed: For any "1".
Damn it it for no edit post.

Bored
12-04-2009, 11:30
This.

Also time for the more mature audience that wants to play Darkfall to come flooding in. If the QQers accustomed to easy kills and easy raids don't like the game maturing up and getting balanced can always say farewell.
For any 2 of those people leaving, probably 3 more new players will be coming in, because they would love a more mature and balanced version of Darkfall.

Thank you Aventurine for catering to the sane crowd.
Complete straw man argument with not substance. People aren't really threatening to quit just arguing that if AV cranks up tower damage too much it'll remove raids from the game. The most extreme example would be starter tower damage. As you can see you can't fucking raid starter towns because it would be suicide. Now I know they're not gonna jack it up that much but as you can see the more you slide in that direction the harder it is to raid. This wouldn't be a huge problem except that raids are pretty well the only way for a medium sized group to find pvp. If AV slides to far with the tower damage it'll ruin the core of medium sized group pvp leaving a nice big hole between basic pking and full on sieges. I'm also of the opinion that people should be protecting their own cities and not be relying on towers. Sure a bit of an advantage is a good thing, but if you couldn't (not wouldn't have but literally couldn't) have beaten a group of raiders without the help of a tower you should lose. Basically the towers should tip the scales in your favor by doing that tiniest bit of damage and alerting you of enemy presence and position. But once those become the equivalent of a constant dot spell it'll be a bit much.

Allort
12-04-2009, 12:06
Fighting guard towers is not PvP.

Player Cities & Hamlets are not meant to be safe havens for afk crafting & macroing regardless of how boring it might be.

If a player wants to afk craft/macro in their city, then they've made their choice to be afk. Deal with the risk & don't expect otherwise.

If a clan of players are naked & continually getting killed in their own city and unable to gear up because 1-4 geared raiders have locked down the bank....then they deserve to lose if their clan/alliance cannot kill them.

If you cannot police yourself & your city/hamlet, then it was not yours to begin with.

There are not supposed to be any safe places in DFO --- not even the starter cities.


The problem is, in most gamers, in an effort to accomodate the ceaseless whining carebears the devs will continually make alterations that eventually fuck up the PvP.

Sadly the carebears fail to realize that in a PvP system that most of the "problems" that carebears like to whine about are dealt with & handled perfectly fine by the skilled/competent players.

Unfortunately, the carebears would rather have in-game blanket protection mechanisms enforced upon the server to not have free action due to a plethora of game contraints that will eventually give the carebear the safe haven which is ultimately desired....despite all their bullshit "for the good of the game" rhetoric.

you sir (i say sir i am assuming kid actualy) Live in an ideal but unrealistic world.

Great in principle but then the only people who do benefit are the people with no life who can can play 20 hours a day and those who are already macroed up to the top. The game would enter lock down, you would loose 80% of the population. While yes it would be nice to have a really hard core MMORPG with complete FFA PvP, it would not survive and would have a tiny popluation and die.

AV are putting in some small "carebear meassures" to keep the population strong, and growing, and ensure you e peen dicks have someone left to fight in the end, how about letting the rest of us catch up to your macroed status and join in a fair fight. Those of us that PvP all the time without having macroed, and having to rely on player skill more than character skill.... well maybe your afraid that when our levels reach the same as yours your going to get wtfpwned

/Win thread

Zintex
12-04-2009, 12:06
According to the notes, these changes appear to suck ass.

However, I will make my final decisions once I see the OPness for myself.

Captain Kirk
12-04-2009, 12:56
I was thinking about this today and I can finally see some sense in what they are trying to achieve with adding this.

When you are fighting in your own town you should be at an advantage I agree so far. You get Health/stam/mana buff from the city but not from the hamlet. Towers are in the cities and will from now on be in hamlets aswell. You have the system msg everytime someone enters your town to warn you of intruders.
Its safe to say you have every advantage except numbers if your town is underpopulated.

The most interesting pvp encounters ive had have been raiding cities. My question is simple; do we want to remove pvp from playercities?

kdchan
12-04-2009, 13:18
I love how people without a good argument jump straight too qq moar and your just a loser nananananana. People like you should not be able to talk.

Anyways, I've said my point a million times and this debate seems to have nothing new being added, so I don't really have anything to add. Would just like to say if your down to name calling and wild accusations, just stfu. We don't need straw man arguments and Ad hominems.

Less hardcore ppl like you = better game.

RelentlesCoward
12-04-2009, 13:25
Complete straw man argument with not substance. People aren't really threatening to quit just arguing that if AV cranks up tower damage too much it'll remove raids from the game. The most extreme example would be starter tower damage.
As you can see you can't fucking raid starter towns because it would be suicide. Now I know they're not gonna jack it up that much but as you can see the more you slide in that direction the harder it is to raid.

No. You see, what exactly are you describing as a raid? Taking 3 guys, killing some afk naked with no skills whatsoever since their starter town noobs, than just sitting around jerking off counting the loot inside tower range?
Yeah that would be pretty much retarded. That's what small pvp raids are so far in Darkfall. Retarded. I mean if people found a way to steal from 1.0 systems in EVE O then surely you can find a way to raid even starter towns (if you think is worth it). Have more friends with you (oh, the horror!! I have to make friends with somebody?) Have a chain of mages/healers strategically placed,(oh, the horror! You'd now have to actually think before a raid??) Make a well thought out plan? It's nothing difficult if anyone can use his brain.
If this can apply to a starter town how about everything else player owned where their defenses are shit compared to starter towns?



This wouldn't be a huge problem except that raids are pretty well the only way for a medium sized group to find pvp. If AV slides to far with the tower damage it'll ruin the core of medium sized group pvp leaving a nice big hole between basic pking and full on sieges. I'm also of the opinion that people should be protecting their own cities and not be relying on towers. Sure a bit of an advantage is a good thing, but if you couldn't (not wouldn't have but literally couldn't) have beaten a group of raiders without the help of a tower you should lose. Basically the towers should tip the scales in your favor by doing that tiniest bit of damage and alerting you of enemy presence and position. But once those become the equivalent of a constant dot spell it'll be a bit much.

Raids are rare because NO PLAYERS in game. People got tired of easymode CSS kiddies that botted their maxed skill at 100s in everything and didn't even needed to aim, and the same kiddies roaming around solo raiding the few semi populated areas that have been left.
Shouldn't anybody try to argue what was Pro-Patch and what is Post-Patch, cause pro-patch was nothing, NO-PLAYERS. Now at least we may get a second chance.

White Horseman
12-04-2009, 13:31
Funny, cuz I find it extremely easy to roll into a city with 5 geared guys and kill 10+ semigeared noobs fumbling with their bank.

/thread

Bored
12-05-2009, 00:37
Less hardcore ppl like you = better game.
You do realize this is a game aimed at a more hardcore pvp oriented audience? And hell by df standards I'm fairly fucking casual. But ya once again your not making an actual argument just straw mans and ad hominems.


No. You see, what exactly are you describing as a raid? Taking 3 guys, killing some afk naked with no skills whatsoever since their starter town noobs, than just sitting around jerking off counting the loot inside tower range?
Yeah that would be pretty much retarded. That's what small pvp raids are so far in Darkfall. Retarded. I mean if people found a way to steal from 1.0 systems in EVE O then surely you can find a way to raid even starter towns (if you think is worth it). Have more friends with you (oh, the horror!! I have to make friends with somebody?) Have a chain of mages/healers strategically placed,(oh, the horror! You'd now have to actually think before a raid??) Make a well thought out plan? It's nothing difficult if anyone can use his brain.
If this can apply to a starter town how about everything else player owned where their defenses are shit compared to starter towns?
A raid is taking a group of usually 5+ and going around to populated towns, jumping the walls and seeing what kind of a fight you can get. Raiding starter towns simply doesn't happen not because they're all nubs as the surrounding areas get run through constantly, but because there is no practical way to raid them. Your proposal is absolutely rediculous. First off you can't heal really heal through towers, a chain of healers would be sitting ducks. Even if you could the amount of organization, manpower, resources, and time to do such a thing would be absolutely rediculous and would be pointless as the effort isn't even close to worth it. That's not a problem in starter towns, their meant to essentially be safe zones, but player cities are not. It's a matter of effort vs. output. The output being either fun pvp and/or loot, Yes there should be effort in raids, but there is a point where it's just not worth it, and once that point is reached it will remove pvp from the game because medium sized pvp is almost exclusively raiding.


Raids are rare because NO PLAYERS in game. People got tired of easymode CSS kiddies that botted their maxed skill at 100s in everything and didn't even needed to aim, and the same kiddies roaming around solo raiding the few semi populated areas that have been left.
Shouldn't anybody try to argue what was Pro-Patch and what is Post-Patch, cause pro-patch was nothing, NO-PLAYERS. Now at least we may get a second chance.
Raids are rare? Most populated cities get raided 2-7 times a day. Hell Angfrost is constantly being attacked by various groups. Some come for a good fight, some come to try and get some loot, some come because they are our enemies. Whatever the case there is always the chance of getting raided and most of these raids lead to some pretty epic battles. This is how it should be, the attackers have to work for it, you can't come solo to ang and expect to wipe the city, but the defense of the city isn't given to us, we fight to protect this city.

Agarnaoum
12-05-2009, 00:41
You should give up Bored, logic totally failed in this thread.

Bored
12-05-2009, 00:47
You should give up Bored, logic totally failed in this thread.
How? If your going to make a point actually make it. Don't just say "no".

blob
12-05-2009, 01:02
100% support to Bored

nakeds and low populated towns will still get wiped by raids no tower could help them unless they increse dmg to amount of strater towns.

as lot of as are saying if dmg on towers is inresed lets say 15 -20 dmg per hit , it will kill small pvp raids on towns whit real geard defenders willing to defend because towers are killing skilled pvp combat in this situation.

i relly wish they remove all towers from game and find some replacment for strater towns protection only.

and

surging of skill is ok it has some logic, but introducing random critical hits in this game is plain stupidity and much of game breaker.

Simsimma
12-05-2009, 02:50
lol at all u QQers. You haven't even tried it ffs.
Although towers are arguable and I'm not not a real fan, it is what it is.
Actually if you think a bit about it, it will give everything a small raid wanted, geared players to fight. Instead of rushing the bank area now you'll have to sneak and use real 'stealth skillz', maybe ambushing one crafter or luring the 'enemy' out. Because they are/feel somewhat protected they will have the ability to access their bank and gear up to come look for you.
In the end you will have more lootz ;)
On a side note, it actualy says :'may LEAD up to crits...' so nobody realy knows how its going to be, to me it sounds like if you stay to long in LoS it will do a crit after a few hits, or gets an increase in damage every hit.

Anyway QQ moar,i love it :cool:

Yoda
12-05-2009, 03:23
How? If your going to make a point actually make it. Don't just say "no".
i think he was agreeing with you.

Bored
12-05-2009, 03:36
i think he was agreeing with you.
Shit mis-read it as "your logic totally failed" :P Fail on my part their.

Arophkyte
12-05-2009, 04:55
that would suck.

Would not, then you would hae to bring your own cannon =D

vodnik
12-05-2009, 05:40
The last thing guard towers need are more damage and critical hits.

Grats, you just buffed the wall of pain and afk macroing.

lugdygli
12-10-2009, 08:54
I accept with information:That would be great! But only if you have some kind of warning that they are coming. The reason people harvest naked is because there are no "safe spots" and even if they geared up they probably wouldn't get a chance to fight back. Let's be serious here: If 3 or more people sync attacks on you before even know they are there it's hopeless.