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SeverinCompte
11-16-2009, 22:16
I've been on NA1 for a week now and it seems like there is not much selling in the trade and pure buying.

WTB
WTB
WTB

rarely, raaaarely do you see a WTS.

Any ideas on why? Money is worth shit?

giantAppleCore
11-16-2009, 22:20
Huge jump in demand with EU transfers I'd assume. Probably some people holding off on their stuff to see how the expansion changes their value as well.


I've been on NA1 for a week now and it seems like there is not much selling in the trade and pure buying.

WTB
WTB
WTB

rarely, raaaarely do you see a WTS.

Any ideas on why? Money is worth shit?

Tenebrion
11-16-2009, 22:31
As a transfer from EU to NA, I'm extremely pleased with the economy on NA.

nacitar sevaht
11-16-2009, 22:34
As a transfer from EU to NA, I'm extremely pleased with the economy on NA.

As in, you're reaping the benefits that the NA playerbase is stupid enough to overpay for everything in existence.

Prices are ridiculous. Buying from players is a joke on NA. Selling is profitable because the morons actually buy the crap.

Azdul
11-16-2009, 22:43
"WTB really cheap and have plenty of time to spam trade channel"

Also some people reached max crafting level, and don't want to compete with lower level crafters, who sell at loss.

Zmurf
11-16-2009, 22:51
because its far easier to farm gold than it is the farm the items u need. plus most EU guys joined an alliance and are buying up everything within the alliance.

bongloads
11-16-2009, 22:54
As in, you're reaping the benefits that the NA playerbase is stupid enough to overpay for everything in existence.

Prices are ridiculous. Buying from players is a joke on NA. Selling is profitable because the morons actually buy the crap.

prices are accurate on NA. prices on EU were stupidly low, especially with gold value being low. EU economy was fucked.


because its far easier to farm gold than it is the farm the items u need. plus most EU guys joined an alliance and are buying up everything within the alliance.

exactly. it's easy to farm the gold, not as easy/profitable to farm for certain single items. therefore, these certain single items have a high cost, not just some random number they got stuck with on EU when gold was flowing out of everyone's ears (wall farming + dupes)

Dawgdoc
11-16-2009, 22:57
As in, you're reaping the benefits that the NA playerbase is stupid enough to overpay for everything in existence.

Prices are ridiculous. Buying from players is a joke on NA. Selling is profitable because the morons actually buy the crap.

Its called supply and demand.

YOU are the idiot not the people who are buying/selling.

nacitar sevaht
11-16-2009, 23:30
It's a good market, you farm items easily, you sell them to morons who pay 3-4x their actual value. You farm your own items, because buying them from people is a stupid waste of money. You end up with more crap, you sell it to more idiots, etc..

Easy to make money by taking advantage of ignorant spending. :)

Tenebrion
11-17-2009, 02:04
As in, you're reaping the benefits that the NA playerbase is stupid enough to overpay for everything in existence.

So you'd be willing to spend your time to farm ingots, and then sell them at 10g each? Or wood at 6g each? Or Q3 enchanting mats at 15g each?

No?

Then shut the fuck up.

The market on NA-1, as near as I can tell, has practical values for resources. The time spent to obtain the resources is more even with the time spent to obtain the gold to pay for those resources. On EU-1, you'd be fucking stupid to sell resources at the local market value, when resources are vastly more difficult to earn than gold.

GRCPan
11-17-2009, 02:20
The problem is with the game. Everyone needs everything, why would he sell it? And even if he wants to sell it he will sell it inside the clan alliance he belongs to for the same price.

Niburu
11-17-2009, 02:20
How much do you found something really rar...i mean good house addons or other things (ship crafting things what ever) Good luck they higher the chance on rare drops in the next addon so we see more WTS

day day
11-17-2009, 02:24
The reason why crafters charge cost price or above is to make crafting worthwhile.
If you made a loss on every single item you ever craft, whats the point in crating that item again?

Simple basics that doesn't get taught in EU land, which is why they lost all thier crafters and now EU is basically dead.

SeverinCompte
11-17-2009, 23:02
Yea, I guess without a skill cap... every item is actually needed by every player in a sense. I hate that there is no "crafter/fighter" split :[

It's just totally different than the EU economy. There were an even amount of WTB and WTS.

selenius
11-18-2009, 01:33
Its called supply and demand.

YOU are the idiot not the people who are buying/selling.

this

Archetype90
11-18-2009, 01:41
Sellers market - that is for sure.

Lord Zeb
11-18-2009, 02:26
Main problem is with the lack of commerce facilities. There are no Vendors for player made items. There will be some Gnomes coming to do the selling for a few lucky house-owners after the expansion, but I doubt that will be enough to lubricate the economy enough. What is needed is to be able to sell things in the Merchant for a % of the price sold (for resource gatherers and casual sellers), as well as be able to rent a Vendor in Marketplaces for professional merchants and crafters, on top of the "free" services of house gnome vendors. (Which you pay and exorbitant rent to be able to have a House for, if you are lucky or rich enough to be able to get hold of the Gnome for that matter.)

Apart from that, there is the matter with people trying to be self-sufficient, grinding up their own Crafting skills so they won't need to spend loads of time searching for something to buy, and perhaps find what they seek. When the economy is lubricated enough, people will start to be less inclined toward self-sufficiency (as there are serious investments involved, and actually cheaper just to buy the stuff when needed at least in the short run, if it is convenient and easy to get hold of). On NA1 I believe you are experiencing the influx of people that want to grind through crafting skills at great speeds, to have it done and over with and be self-sufficient once more.

To put in a deterrent to self-sufficiency, such as a skill cap, would also work... if the economy would work well enough. People would probably still be crafting and try to be self-sufficient, but would specialize a bit more due to the scarcity of the Skill allotment.

Hence, to get rid of this problem one need to do all of the above, and there would still remain some aftereffects from the system being so fucked up for a year of playing with a non-existing consumer trade system (trade channel is for merchant whole-sales, not consumers), as old characters are loaded with crafting skills and outdated expectations of how things should be done.

Dragoon
11-18-2009, 11:06
S
The market on NA-1, as near as I can tell, has practical values for resources. The time spent to obtain the resources is more even with the time spent to obtain the gold to pay for those resources. On EU-1, you'd be fucking stupid to sell resources at the local market value, when resources are vastly more difficult to earn than gold.

This is very much accurate.

Dragoon
11-18-2009, 11:12
Main problem is with the lack of commerce facilities. There are no Vendors for player made items. There will be some Gnomes coming to do the selling for a few lucky house-owners after the expansion, but I doubt that will be enough to lubricate the economy enough.

How does commerce work in the real world? People willing to make the investment in buying property own the shops. People not willing or can't afford the investment use services like ebay/local newspaper ads or they sell to friends. That's sort of how the merchant system in Darkfall will work. I wish there was a middle ground where you could sell using someone uses merchant for a large fee but maybe we'll get that later on.

Pureblade
11-18-2009, 12:27
because its far easier to farm gold than it is the farm the items u need
Do you think it would help if they removed some of the gold that mobs and added more items? So people would have to sell stuff in order to get the gold they need instead of easily farming gold through pve and hoarding the rest?

FastEddy
11-18-2009, 15:04
I dont know how you can say teh economy is not fucked up.

I would gladly pay whatever anything is worth,

But I cant find anyone, to sell me anything, at any fucking price!

I dont know how you can say the economy is great when 9 out of 10 spams in trade chat are WTB.

Shouldnt there be some equilibrium between WTB and WTS.

I mean there should be a healthy supply and demand not just Demand, right?

Dragoon
11-18-2009, 15:23
I dont know how you can say teh economy is not fucked up.

I would gladly pay whatever anything is worth,

But I cant find anyone, to sell me anything, at any fucking price!

I dont know how you can say the economy is great when 9 out of 10 spams in trade chat are WTB.

Shouldnt there be some equilibrium between WTB and WTS.

I mean there should be a healthy supply and demand not just Demand, right?

When something good goes on sell it gets bought incredibly fast. Everyone is buying, buying, buying. You don't have to spam WTS for 3 hours just to get rid of timber at dirt cheap prices. Merchants and crafters are making a huge amount of money, far more than they could on EU.

We're not saying the economy is good we're saying that it's better at least from the sellers perspective. When venders come into play and the big-time merchants have spots for you to buy their goods 24 hours a day then things will improve.

Dragula
11-18-2009, 15:26
It's a good market, you farm items easily, you sell them to morons who pay 3-4x their actual value. You farm your own items, because buying them from people is a stupid waste of money. You end up with more crap, you sell it to more idiots, etc..

Easy to make money by taking advantage of ignorant spending. :)

I hate to break this to you, but "actual value" is whatever someone is willing to pay.

MrDDT
11-18-2009, 15:28
It's a good market, you farm items easily, you sell them to morons who pay 3-4x their actual value. You farm your own items, because buying them from people is a stupid waste of money. You end up with more crap, you sell it to more idiots, etc..

Easy to make money by taking advantage of ignorant spending. :)


How are they 3 to 4x the actual value? Just wondering where you get this value at.

NA trade is working really well for raw mats. Wish the game made crafting better system with limiting your skills in crafting you can have so everyone isnt just buying raw mats and making it themselves.

You dont see too many people selling rank 30 weapons, or chain armor. There is no real need for these ranks and something is wrong with the system. But thats a different topic.

Once things settle down a bit from EU people buying up the mats, prices will slowly come down as the players buying dont need it as much.

Gold is easier then long ago so a lot of people still think that the value of say like ore is 4g. Its just not.

FastEddy
11-18-2009, 18:47
When something good goes on sell it gets bought incredibly fast. Everyone is buying, buying, buying. You don't have to spam WTS for 3 hours just to get rid of timber at dirt cheap prices. Merchants and crafters are making a huge amount of money, far more than they could on EU.

We're not saying the economy is good we're saying that it's better at least from the sellers perspective. When venders come into play and the big-time merchants have spots for you to buy their goods 24 hours a day then things will improve.


I say the opposite.

If people are going to be able to buy things easier (through Vendors) there is going to be even less things for sale.

Stormsblade
11-18-2009, 19:05
There is a supply/demand issue with the economy that needs to be addressed.

Boldric
11-18-2009, 19:24
There is a supply/demand issue with the economy that needs to be addressed.


There isn't a supply demand issue its a gold versus materials issue. Until prices go high enough that it is more efficient to farm the actual materials yourself than to farm gold and buy them you will see people buying and not selling the materials. Right now prices just need to go up more in order to straighten out the supply/demand inside the economy for NA. There is nothing Adventurine needs to do for that to happen. It just has a time lag sensitivity for people to find that out and sell at the correct prices.

Kasmos
11-18-2009, 19:46
Any ideas on why? Money is worth shit?

Nope, everyone can craft anything they want potentially.

That is why the economy is fucking non-existent among other things (such as lack of local banking, lack of regional resources, etc).



*sits back and waits for Draxous to tell the OP he's stupid and wrong*

Spawl
11-18-2009, 19:47
There are differences in the prices for all the different types of resources out there.

For reagents the prices are capped artificially by the vendor prices that are set. Most reagents are selling from 3 - 3.6 gold per on the market. From 3.7 - 4.0 items generally don't sell much in this range since it just simply isn't worth the time to travel to save a couple hundred gold since you can buy it in unlimited quantities at vendors. Unfortunately unless the reagents are taken off the vendor there just isn't going to be any relief to these current prices. 4.2 gold for ash is a quite a deal compared to 6 gold at the vendor though but that speaks to the volume of mobs that drop ash that people are farming for profit.

timber, wood, ore, ingots, steedgrass all appear to be more based on market conditions. You can see some people trying to corner the market as well and drive up prices (if you pay attention to trade chat). This part of the market appears to be working as intended.

Enchanting components are really a strange duck. Since there are a few buyers and literally everyone with a skinning knife is a seller you can see some wild fluctuations in both availability and prices offered.

Finished high end weapons seem to sell for quite a bit and there does seem to be an exponential increase in cost based on the damage modifier that the item is rolled with. I've seen a ton of the lower end rolls of Q3 transmuted weapons go for under 1k where the highest end Q3s are going for 3k or more. I would really like to see more diversity in the marketplace for weapons though as it really appears that the power is still in the court of the enchanters for making the best weapons. Maybe the melee/archery changes will balance the effect of transmuted weapons.

Overall I think the economy is fair. You can find someone willing to sell low if you are patient. There are people that are selling high continuously so that means they must be having some success. There is definately a lack of reagent sellers out there as most people tend to buy from the vendor. If the developers were to remove this availability you would see the market drasticly change.

Kraznor
11-19-2009, 14:43
because its far easier to farm gold than it is the farm the items u need. plus most EU guys joined an alliance and are buying up everything within the alliance.

This. Harvesting is fucking retarded in this game. :bang:

DeManiac
11-19-2009, 23:17
How about this.

Now I can't stop thinking I have posted this before, but I couldn't find the post, so can't refer to it, if I have, please forgive me.

Villages should have NPC vendors in them, all of em.
These would sell whatever the Village have as resource, some don't have anything in particular, those would be "market" villages.
But the sold items would be extremely high, take arrows for example, 2g / arrow.
You get arrows at less then 1g, but there is the option to buy them for 2g each at vendor.
Same would be at these villages, they would sell for Double or so, what resources are sold at by players.


Selling items to them would reward according to what they need, a Market village would pay 110% what you would get at a normal NPC vendor, if you sold the stuff there.
Don't dropp out yet, more to come.

But, the real deal would be to trade with the NPCs.
Each NPC would get a stock each hour of whatever the village would have, for example, a fishing village(a village with a harbor) would trade everything in exchange for fish.
This would be done with a % win ratio according to how faar the village is from that particular resource.

A village in the center of mainland would trade good for fish, but trade worthless for herbs(for example).

The stock they can trade with would be limited and increased each hour.
So say they get 100 their resource / hour.

If a perfect trade, you could get a 33% increase.

75 Fish would award you 100 herbs, and so on, you get the point.


The finding the right village to trade in would be the quets, find trade routes to move between.

It would be a way to increase in resources without having to gather, but the limitation of resources / hour, would prevent you from abusing the system.
Simply, it would be a traders way to increase money effectively.


Now this prevents player interaction you say, but what prevents you from killing that poor bastard that does this?

The main purpose of this would be to get "Free" resources, not gold, out in the system, gathering this time would award you resources aswell, so they could be earned anyway.
But trading with the NPCs would give you profit according to local values, and thus moving around in the world would be good.

The problem with the economy, is that people don't want to gather, people want to pvp, they want to buy their items with gold they get from mobbs.



In my example, you could sell items for gold, but, it would be better to Trade with the villagers, to get their resource, and then sell it to players.