Expansion Spotlight – Player Vendors and new house type

[Najik]

Nice to see further progress on villages, tho this whole lose ya house if ya not playing every other day is a right pain. (expecting to see a lot of house loses over xmas)
I still dont believe villages will be centres for trade of any kind.
The most saleable item would be siege hammers to take the village stone with haha.
The little sneaky add on about having keeps that can be upgraded to a full group of 10 binds at once will have spectacular impacts. Kick bind a group of 28 (9+9+10) accross the world when ever you desire will mean serious business for constant warring.
And you can be assured it will not be little struggling clans that will own such items either. In many ways, any clan that aquires such a resource will have more pvp game influence than hamlet owners.
Roll on in the expansion :)

[Friagrim]

Ok houses cost 30k each and house taxes are so small its meaningless... I can't believe all the qq


NO they wont let you put vendors up every fucking place, and we don't need idiocy like Lineage 2 where everyones their own afk vendor litterring all city entrances. They said from the word 'go' that vendors would be incorporated only in the village system. Deal with it, because its brilliant and its not their fault you're all too slow to realize it or too lazy to farm up 30k gold (LOL seriously)

[Friagrim]

Nice to see further progress on villages, tho this whole lose ya house if ya not playing every other day is a right pain. (expecting to see a lot of house loses over xmas)
I still dont believe villages will be centres for trade of any kind.
The most saleable item would be siege hammers to take the village stone with haha.
The little sneaky add on about having keeps that can be upgraded to a full group of 10 binds at once will have spectacular impacts. Kick bind a group of 28 (9+9+10) accross the world when ever you desire will mean serious business for constant warring.
And you can be assured it will not be little struggling clans that will own such items either. In many ways, any clan that aquires such a resource will have more pvp game influence than hamlet owners.
Roll on in the expansion :)

You're imagining SG's will be able to kick bind people to a keep? uuuuuuuuuh negative. Thats just stupid. Cities and hamlets are a much easier and more sensible way to accomplish this. Besides its a player's house and won't work exactly like the 'kicking' method of transporting since sg's cannot infact kick to a house. wtf are you on about?

[Cple]

You're imagining SG's will be able to kick bind people to a keep? uuuuuuuuuh negative. Thats just stupid. Cities and hamlets are a much easier and more sensible way to accomplish this. Besides its a player's house and won't work exactly like the 'kicking' method of transporting since sg's cannot infact kick to a house. wtf are you on about?

He is talking about inviting people to your house, having them port over and then uninvite them. Rince repeat. The owner can do this to his clan. Please do not embarass yourself further.:rolleyes:

[GRCPan]

Ok houses cost 30k each and house taxes are so small its meaningless... I can't believe all the qq


NO they wont let you put vendors up every fucking place, and we don't need idiocy like Lineage 2 where everyones their own afk vendor litterring all city entrances. They said from the word 'go' that vendors would be incorporated only in the village system. Deal with it, because its brilliant and its not their fault you're all too slow to realize it or too lazy to farm up 30k gold (LOL seriously)

Or have a life and like spending your in game time in things other than farming.
But I guess a guy with no work like yourself wouldn't understand that.

[xpiher]

It would also attract more experienced players to pk the newer ones on their lovely shopping spree. :bang:

Not really. You know how long a PKer would have to wait to find someone buying stuff. THe only thing I think you have to worry about is players who own the shops pking after something is bought, but even then thats going to rare since you don't need the money on you to buy anything

Mhm...the PlayerVendors...

would much better if Players can use/ and built up P-Vendors everywhere (in Hamlets or Cities) not only in the Villages and in the own Houses.

for myself i dont will ride through the land with lots of money for searching a PlayerVendor from a Person who i know that they sell the things what i want.
sinnless ...sry.

and cant bank anything...



so in this option playerVendors are a good idea but useless at this moment

Risk v Reward. If you want to buy easily and in bulk you better be willing to risk the trip.

MO still needs alot of work. But as of the last beta patch, housing was in and houses can be built anywhere. Crafting system is 10x better in MO as well. Combinations of types of materials can be used to create different quality/types of weapons.

As for DF, it's a start.

No it can't. Wait until houses "slots" get taken up and the possible locations shrink.

Or have a life and like spending your in game time in things other than farming.
But I guess a guy with no work like yourself wouldn't understand that.

Takes 1hr to make 10k in raw gold, not inculding the items you skin or find

[Kalizkhan]

The problem with your disregard for the 'omg wat ef he genks meee?' scenario is that, even if you do not have any gold on you at the time of purchase, after you purchase the items the previous owner may kill you - sure, he won't get any of the gold other than what you just gave him, but he'll get his items back, doubling, tripling, quadrupling etc his profits for every person he can gank in that way.

[Reddog]

Then the word will spread and nobody will go to that shop anymore. That's how it works.

[Kalizkhan]

Then the word will spread and nobody will go to that shop anymore. That's how it works.


True, but with the limited number of housing plots, and given the addition of the 'Keep', I think disgruntled buyers should be able to rob/burn down/take for their very own to love and to hold and to keep and call it George - that players house.

[Kalizkhan]

AND ANOTHER THING!

If you purchase out of your bank, the items should go directly in to your bank - although that may be considered carebearish. Actually, it is carebearish. I'm against it. But it would make things easier.

[Frisca]

This will only make player cities less useful/interesting.
Wake up AV! First thing you need(ed to fix 6 monts ago) is player cities!!! Remove even more players from holdings now that they can have "a village life"?

1. Make player cities relative safe outside of sieges (Guards... hello?)
2. Make them generate money!!!
3. Make them auto-generate resources from the nodes.
4. Officers controlled vendor with settings to sell to ally only, friendly, blue ... etc.
5. Fix the damn aim on the wall cannons!

6... Develop whatever other features you want for the game once the METAGAME is "finished". Give your customers what you promised before release (or some of it) and THEN put in new features.

[dbmk]

All I saw was people demanding they be placed anywhere which would allow people to fill up NPC cities with vendors removing all the risk from the buyer and removing the need to be a good businessman for the seller.

And anyone capable of what you deem good businessmanship will be rewarded by equal amounts of interest from people trying to take advantage of it = killing your customers. Making a name for yourself will be senseless. There will be an equilibrium of death killing the validity of your argument.

[dbmk]

Darkfall is about freedom tempered by risk and reward. You want all the reward with none of the risk.

There is no inherent reward in being able to set up a vendor - if everyone else can do it too.

[smr8465]

this sounds amazing!

[Kimoshu]

With 800 new village slots opening up that's going to mean a hell of a lot more houses. That probably more than doubles the current number in the game from what I've seen of most of the villages' housecounts listed on sinister.

-Andrew

[dorikin]

Epic fail AV.

Vendors - great and needed thing.. but AVs vision is so wrong... damn sometimes i read your patch notes and think - these guys are not gamers.. their game design decisions are so dumb i cant believe they really code this game...

DF need ONE BIG BAZZAR with TELEPORTs there...
I cant see why TRADING shouldnt be reasonably safe AND CONVINIENT.


I will spent some money to raise my personal crafting skills (i hate craftin, i play only for PVP) but I NEVER will go traveling from village to village seeking vendors to buy shit....

As it is now, considering their plans to buy a thing i need:
1) spent 5mins-12hrs(depends on rareness of good) spaming trade chnl in search of player who wts needed thing and will provide me with his vendor coords.
2)spent 15-60mins for traveling (multiply this time if you meet some pvp on your way to the vendor)

What whould make me want to waste so much time? - nothing i would rather take my r40 and go have some fun.

And if you look on that idiotic system from economic angle... ok to start trading you need:
1) raise skills
2)craft items
3) spent 50k for a house
4) spent(50-250?? who knows) for a vendor
5) now you are welcom to sit and spam trading channel, advertising you little vendor far far away in the middle of the lands away from potentional buyers....

STUPID, not LOGICAL implementation.
Epic Fail....

[wicked]

will buy keep deed from anyone on NA. sell a keep, make a rent payment (irl?) that month!

[xpiher]

Epic fail AV.

Vendors - great and needed thing.. but AVs vision is so wrong... damn sometimes i read your patch notes and think - these guys are not gamers.. their game design decisions are so dumb i cant believe they really code this game...

DF need ONE BIG BAZZAR with TELEPORTs there...
I cant see why TRADING shouldnt be reasonably safe AND CONVINIENT.


I will spent some money to raise my personal crafting skills (i hate craftin, i play only for PVP) but I NEVER will go traveling from village to village seeking vendors to buy shit....

As it is now, considering their plans to buy a thing i need:
1) spent 5mins-12hrs(depends on rareness of good) spaming trade chnl in search of player who wts needed thing and will provide me with his vendor coords.
2)spent 15-60mins for traveling (multiply this time if you meet some pvp on your way to the vendor)

What whould make me want to waste so much time? - nothing i would rather take my r40 and go have some fun.

And if you look on that idiotic system from economic angle... ok to start trading you need:
1) raise skills
2)craft items
3) spent 50k for a house
4) spent(50-250?? who knows) for a vendor
5) now you are welcom to sit and spam trading channel, advertising you little vendor far far away in the middle of the lands away from potentional buyers....

STUPID, not LOGICAL implementation.
Epic Fail....

The idea isn't stupid illogical or fail. You just want easy mode trading instead of having to develop and sustain contacts

There is no inherent reward in being able to set up a vendor - if everyone else can do it too.

Yes there is, its called not needing to work or be good at business to sell items

[Lord Jenicus]

I LOVE the idea of having keep deeds, my clan will be sucking these up like crazy, who needs some silly city when you can have an indestructible keep :D.

I also really like that AV is adding new housing plots to the world, I'd love to see some detached from villages, like a lone cottage out in the middle of the woods or something like that, would be really awesome!

[melcore]

If the gold is directly taken from the bank and the item goes directly to the bank, why don't just add global auction houses? The only difference is that with local vendors you lose your time running around naked. It will just be another timesink.

gold should come directly from your bank however the items should go in your back pack period. like others pointed out the system worked great in uo and will also work great in darkfall... no global auction houses seriously...

[Omegataco]

Epic fail AV.

Vendors - great and needed thing.. but AVs vision is so wrong... damn sometimes i read your patch notes and think - these guys are not gamers.. their game design decisions are so dumb i cant believe they really code this game...

DF need ONE BIG BAZZAR with TELEPORTs there...
I cant see why TRADING shouldnt be reasonably safe AND CONVINIENT.


I will spent some money to raise my personal crafting skills (i hate craftin, i play only for PVP) but I NEVER will go traveling from village to village seeking vendors to buy shit....

As it is now, considering their plans to buy a thing i need:
1) spent 5mins-12hrs(depends on rareness of good) spaming trade chnl in search of player who wts needed thing and will provide me with his vendor coords.
2)spent 15-60mins for traveling (multiply this time if you meet some pvp on your way to the vendor)

What whould make me want to waste so much time? - nothing i would rather take my r40 and go have some fun.

And if you look on that idiotic system from economic angle... ok to start trading you need:
1) raise skills
2)craft items
3) spent 50k for a house
4) spent(50-250?? who knows) for a vendor
5) now you are welcom to sit and spam trading channel, advertising you little vendor far far away in the middle of the lands away from potentional buyers....

STUPID, not LOGICAL implementation.
Epic Fail....

I lol'ed

[melcore]

You should not have the ability to pay your rent forward. What if you paid for 3 months ahead and then quit the game?

you should be able to pay weekly though not every three days.....

[coz]

Wow! Eta?

[dbmk]

Yes there is, its called not needing to work or be good at business to sell items

No, because if you are not, you will still lose out to the ones that are.

And as far as work and business sense goes, where is the difference in relation to vendors on village houses only?

[dbmk]

The idea isn't stupid illogical or fail. You just want easy mode trading instead of having to develop and sustain contacts


Yes. Surprise, surprise. People want an easier way to sell their stuff to a broader clientel and without actually having to be online. That was the entire point.

Now it will be easier to _try_ to sell it. But getting people to visit and buy?
Same hassle as before - with added risk for the buyer.

[Tenebrion]

Yes. Surprise, surprise. People want an easier way to sell their stuff to a broader clientel and without actually having to be online. That was the entire point.

Now it will be easier to _try_ to sell it. But getting people to visit and buy?
Same hassle as before - with added risk for the buyer.

Die in a fire.

[ChinaCat]

Die in a fire.

lol

Rock on AV.

[Groenholdt]

A lot of people are always talking about "freedom"...

Why can't we decide where to put that vendor instead of limiting the freedom AV?

[blob]

adding merchant skill specialization that can put vendor in any town or village would be nice.

[dorikin]

The idea isn't stupid illogical or fail. You just want easy mode trading instead of having to develop and sustain contacts


Ok, smart guy, check the most amazing economic system in MMOs - EvE online.
Fast, convinient, safe trading system that boosts economic activity....
IT MUST BE EASY TO FIND WHAT YOU WANT.... FAST AND EASY other way it wont work at all.

I dont say it should be safe to transport goods.... but in any case market wont be active without trading HUBS with brief and convinient monitoring\searching system. And to be active - market MUST be open TO EVERYONE. Paying 150k(house and vendor) to be able to trade - that thing is another nail to the trading activity.

EVE has local banking system, thats' great, but they are not restrict ppl to certain places to trade. You can put selling\buying order ANYWHERE, even on the enemy territory.
And you know what? Ppl orginized trading HUBs by themselves and that works great.

Without central marketplace and some distant mini-hubs you wont see any real trading activity in DF. That's not my idea - that's the essential basics of economics.

With stupid vendors stuck at villages, without global goods searching system - it's an epic fail...

And one more thing, will be vendors capable of BUYINg goods from players? I bet it wont happen, that would be to smart for AV to implement... maby later.. after megabytes of qqing and crying they will be insighted by that great idea.
What if i want to buy 10000wood? Spam trade chanel and go to 3-5 vendors all other the map to take their goods? It shold be other way - you set up a buy order and ppl sell goods to your vendor.

[smackyou]

seems like a keep would sell for a SHIT load of money more than a villa :P still its worth having!!! :D i beat it will be on island to create pirates so they can trade gods with other vendors to make income. but youll never konw. if ppl use the system as it should be used im prity sure it will be facken awesome :D

[kyberion]

I like the fact that vendors will be available only outside safe NPC cities.

It's a sandbox game, and players will find "sandbox" solution to the problem:
- maybe they will travel with couple friends to do any serious shopping, like warhulks or ships
- maybe some villages will be organized into peaceful merchant societies, where you'll get warning in public channel about any incoming PKs
- maybe some clans will run, guard and profit from "trading village", where everyone is invited, and is safe as long as he acts according to the rules.

Zap towers are there to protect newbies, who know too little about DF to be able to relay on skill or numbers to defend themselves - not to provide safe zone for experienced players.

The key word in your statements is MAYBE. Now let me show you why this won't work:

1) Big items like ships or warhulks will be heavily advertised in trade chat anyway, that's how they will be sold. not through vendors that have at most a local effect
2) You can't organize shit in villages when people from different clans own the houses and house ownership cannot safely be sold or maybe even forced.
3) The effort to guard a village is way too high for the measly profit you make from sales. And yes, I speak from experience. I am part of the Freemasons, the first and only guild to have tried to set up anything remotely like a trade hub. You need to have a standing army to guard the tradehub and no army will just idly stand around doing guard duty.

Now to all UO vets that seem to remember a similar model from UO times, DF is not UO (otherwise it would have a much larger player base than it does). Ask yourselves what the differences between UO model and DF model are and you'll come to the same conclusion that this is a fail initiative.

If they really wanted to create trade hubs they'd have put the vendors in player cities and maybe hamlets where people already gather. It's like commerce works in real world you know? Traders get attracted by crowds of potential customers not customers getting attracted by potential traders.

Just put a local AH in every city and then people will trade through them. Then trader guilds will actually spring up, organize city take-overs, open the cities as trade hubs to trading partners, organize defense and so on. Or they will act as a center of commerce just for the guild/alliance that owns it. This is sandbox, let players decide what they want to do. Not force them to participate in the stupid AV lottery system first to get a house then to get a vendor.

[kyberion]

Do you guys realize what you are asking for ??
Vendors in player cities and hamlets ???

How do you think you can buy something, if the zap-tower and all people in town are shooting at you, because you entered their city ???

Vendors in playercities would only work for the clan/ alliance, which is owning the city and not for anyone else.

Which using villages you can attract much more people to buy your stuff. You can be red/blue/elf/orc/human whatsoever and still buy there.

With vendors in cities you will have two types of gameplay available as the owner:
1) regular cities that are closed to anyone but your clan and alliance. They will work as local trade hubs open only to friendlies. And that's what you will want to have, not actually supply your enemies with gear.
2) free tradehub cities that will make friendship treaties with everyone interested to trade there or even deactivate their zap towers except for when sieges are declared. Like trade cities of old they'll rely on common interest of their friends and financial muscle for defense rather on some very limited zap towers. So you as a red player will be most welcome in the city if you behave.

And to keep vendors from popping up everywhere in the city see my suggestion above for a local Auction House. And if the taxes from AH sales will go into clan coffers that will be an added incentive for guilds to start trading hubs.

[Jigren]

I'd say put AH's on cities with local bank. (make new ones or edit old ones) That would attract trade caravans and lots of activity around those cities.

House vendors are good for small scale shopping at your own village etc.

[Tashunca]

vendors like AV one. works fine in UO. will work fine in DF to...

[Staatsschutz]

So limited vendors?
I don't like this idea, why don't alloe people hire vendors in the starter town too? So newbs can sell shit to newbs and not only who farm deed more.

why? because there has to be an incentive to own your own house, and there also has to be a means to populate player driven villages with human players.....

If everybody could set up their own vendor everywhere, no one would come and visit the player run villages to browse through the various shops

[kdchan]

Epic fail AV.

Vendors - great and needed thing.. but AVs vision is so wrong... damn sometimes i read your patch notes and think - these guys are not gamers.. their game design decisions are so dumb i cant believe they really code this game...

DF need ONE BIG BAZZAR with TELEPORTs there...
I cant see why TRADING shouldnt be reasonably safe AND CONVINIENT.


I will spent some money to raise my personal crafting skills (i hate craftin, i play only for PVP) but I NEVER will go traveling from village to village seeking vendors to buy shit....

As it is now, considering their plans to buy a thing i need:
1) spent 5mins-12hrs(depends on rareness of good) spaming trade chnl in search of player who wts needed thing and will provide me with his vendor coords.
2)spent 15-60mins for traveling (multiply this time if you meet some pvp on your way to the vendor)

What whould make me want to waste so much time? - nothing i would rather take my r40 and go have some fun.

And if you look on that idiotic system from economic angle... ok to start trading you need:
1) raise skills
2)craft items
3) spent 50k for a house
4) spent(50-250?? who knows) for a vendor
5) now you are welcom to sit and spam trading channel, advertising you little vendor far far away in the middle of the lands away from potentional buyers....

STUPID, not LOGICAL implementation.
Epic Fail....

Agree, i never lose hours travel to every village in the game for checking items. This idea is a FAIL for me and it will never work in the long time. and yes a bazar is much better for raise economy. More easy and fast you buy items more the economy increase. Av is not so smart, village system is useless and nobody cares. Imo.

[kdchan]

Traders get attracted by crowds of potential customers not customers getting attracted by potential traders.

Bingo, is because this vendor system will FAIL. Is the crafter that need to move and sell items to me not countrary (trade chat still better). I NEVER move to these villages and check every vendor house to buy items if:

1) i'm not safe to buy
2) is not fast and easy
3) i know already what the vendor sell (trough a web board interface)

[bongloads]

Awesome

[growinurdead]

This vendor system will not fail.. and you will use it too.. because you will be to curious about it...
That system was working in Ultima Online.. so it will work here as well!!!

I love AV.. bring more stuff from Ultima Online.. thx


Bingo, is because this vendor system will FAIL. Is the crafter that need to move and sell items to me not countrary (trade chat still better). I NEVER move to these villages and check every vendor house to buy items if:

1) i'm not safe to buy
2) is not fast and easy
3) i know already what the vendor sell (trough a web board interface)

[foggen]

almost a real game soon -_-

[kdchan]

This vendor system will not fail.. and you will use it too.. because you will be to curious about it...
That system was working in Ultima Online.. so it will work here as well!!!

I love AV.. bring more stuff from Ultima Online.. thx

I still think will be a failure but well, will see. :rolleyes:

[Ilore]

This is a really failure, as the local banking only in houses or the new specialization skills (oh! this expansion will be great! ¬¬). But, Why this vendors will be a failure?:

1- ALL people can have all the craft skills at level 100. So, all people are able to create his own items, and they don´t need to buy it.

2- the houses and the house vendors are too dificult to create. So, once again, this new features are only for the "elite" players. the noobs won´t never be able to have a vendor.

3. the houses are too far from the cities, so, it´s too dificult to survive in the travel. With this sistem, the pks will be rich. It will be a paradise for them: wait near the vendor, and when someone goes to buy something ¡bang! kill him and be rich.

So, anyone will use this system. Once again, Aventurine is making stupid and useless features.

I´m sorry, but I think that this game sucks more day by day.

P.D.: excuse me for my bad English.

[dbmk]

Die in a fire.

Before I follow that request/order, would you care to tell me why?

[Elmi]

1- ALL people can have all the craft skills at level 100. So, all people are able to create his own items, and they don´t need to buy it.

2- the houses and the house vendors are too dificult to create. So, once again, this new features are only for the "elite" players. the noobs won´t never be able to have a vendor.

3. the houses are too far from the cities, so, it´s too dificult to survive in the travel. With this sistem, the pks will be rich. It will be a paradise for them: wait near the vendor, and when someone goes to buy something ¡bang! kill him and be rich.


1. No. Valuable crafted items require rare and valuable mats. So people are still in need of items or rare materials.
2. Noob will not make any sales even if he had a vendor. Because he is a noob and can't produce anything valuable.
3. By your logic items in Darkfall are utter fail. Because you can loose them to evil PK on your way to goblin spawn. Actually you can loose them even to evil goblin scout. So dumb AV ...

[kelthroun]

You said "WE WANT CARAVANS AND LOCAL BANKS".
Now they give you the opportunity to organize a small -or big- caravan in order to go and buy what you need from a player vendor far from you, without the ability to insta-bank the items you buy (that's local banking isn't it?!) and NOW YOU CRY!
Great idea AV... thnx again! :idea:

[klawjon]

Open up auction houses for lower level goods in the NPC cities. Allow clan vendors in the cities for internal trading. Continue with your plan for risk vs reward on the mid and up crafted/looted goods. Allow a search function with waypoints for vendors.

[samureyed]

Open up auction houses for lower level goods in the NPC cities. Allow clan vendors in the cities for internal trading. Continue with your plan for risk vs reward on the mid and up crafted/looted goods. Allow a search function with waypoints for vendors.

Who determines whats lower and upper level goods?

I think you are all missing the point that this is an upgrade to the current trading system, not an overhaul. Perhaps in the 3rd expansion they will give us more vendor options, or perhaps they even have something planned for this expansion that we have not heard about (caravans?)

Either way.. i can see the vendors being used to sell armor sets, weapon sets, bags of regs, enchanting mats, food, potions, arrows, mounts etc. Resources as well.. but probably not as common because anyone can easily get their own, and weight will be a problem.

People will be recognized for their vendors. It will be a local service. If you live in Copperdale and their is a vendor near you that frequently sells bone sets you will know where to look when you need one. It's simple, limited and risky. I like it.

[samureyed]

Agree, i never lose hours travel to every village in the game for checking items. This idea is a FAIL for me and it will never work in the long time. and yes a bazar is much better for raise economy. More easy and fast you buy items more the economy increase. Av is not so smart, village system is useless and nobody cares. Imo.

The bazaar (auction house) is so over-rated and over-done.. i would hate to see them take that route.

These vendors are not meant to be available to everyone. Obviously the purpose is to create local villages hot spots. They are utilizing their village system, making them more frequent for players to visit. I bet they will continue to add more features to them down the road as well.

You can choose to shop at villages or continue doing it the old fashion way, whats the problem here?

[Agris]

Stop noob discrimination! We demand vendors for noobs, too!

[klawjon]

Stop noob discrimination! We demand vendors for noobs, too!

Around here they ask why give noobs a promising experience. Can't even give a noob crafter a noob bazaar in a starting city. It is all about the end game.

[samureyed]

Around here they ask why give noobs a promising experience. Can't even give a noob crafter a noob bazaar in a starting city. It is all about the end game.

I don't understand this mentality. All the "vets" here were noobs as well. We never had player vendors and managed just fine. Sell your stuff at the NPC vendors. As a noob you will be buying more than selling anyways.

Vendors are one more thing to work for. Do you not like having goals to work for?

Also, as a noob you are just as likely to find a vendor in a chaos chest than anyone else. Then you can choose to save it or sell it just like everyone else. So the real problem is you need a house.. which obviously cannot be a noob feature.

[klawjon]

I don't understand this mentality. All the "vets" here were noobs as well. We never had player vendors and managed just fine. Sell your stuff at the NPC vendors. As a noob you will be buying more than selling anyways.

Vendors are one more thing to work for. Do you not like having goals to work for?

Also, as a noob you are just as likely to find a vendor in a chaos chest than anyone else. Then you can choose to save it or sell it just like everyone else. So the real problem is you need a house.. which obviously cannot be a noob feature.

The mentality is the population is decreasing. The hard core guys are still here and a bazaar system for starting components that are player driven gives loot/crafter noobs a fighting chance. A noob can not afford the tax of a house. One day a noob will become a vet and increase the population of the game which will no longer need the lower level bazaar.

[Agris]

Vendors are one more thing to work for. Do you not like having goals to work for?

Also, as a noob you are just as likely to find a vendor in a chaos chest than anyone else. Then you can choose to save it or sell it just like everyone else. So the real problem is you need a house.. which obviously cannot be a noob feature
things are so as you describe, but not everyone will have the patience to achieve this. My opinion is that noobs must have some kind of vendor too.

[samureyed]

The mentality is the population is decreasing. The hard core guys are still here and a bazaar system for starting components that are player driven gives loot/crafter noobs a fighting chance. A noob can not afford the tax of a house. One day a noob will become a vet and increase the population of the game which will no longer need the lower level bazaar.

Like I said, we all managed just fine without a bazaar as noobs. I see no reason why you cannot manage as well. Now you will have the option to buy goods from vendors as well.

Sounds to me like a bad case of "Daddy bought me a Honda when I wanted a Mercedes."

[samureyed]

things are so as you describe, but not everyone will have the patience to achieve this. My opinion is that noobs must have some kind of vendor too.

??? There are varous NPC vendors in every NPC city. I agree they do not give the greatest of prices.. but over time you will learn what sells and what doesnt.

Gold is easy enough to come by without vendors in DF.. just go kill some mobs, keep the gold, regs and valuable armor and vendor everything else for a few extra coin.

The only value you would have for a vendor as a noob would be to sell harvested & crafted materials. Which you can still do through the chat system.

[klawjon]

Like I said, we all managed just fine without a bazaar as noobs. I see no reason why you cannot manage as well. Now you will have the option to buy goods from vendors as well.

Sounds to me like a bad case of "Daddy bought me a Honda when I wanted a Mercedes."

When you were a noob, everyone was a noob. There were not established cities, villages, and houses. Everyone had to trade with each other. The game is different now. There are not as many newbs as when you started, cities are established, clans formed territory that is fought over, plots are taken. It is not the same. When you started everyone was driving a Honda. Now when a noob starts this game, everyone is driving a Mercedes.

[Kasmos]

When you were a noob, everyone was a noob. There were not established cities, villages, and houses. Everyone had to trade with each other. The game is different now. There are not as many newbs as when you started, cities are established, clans formed territory that is fought over, plots are taken. It is not the same. When you started everyone was driving a Honda. Now when a noob starts this game, everyone is driving a Mercedes.

This hits the nail on the head. I think that we won't have a decent retention rate of new players unless the developers implement things to cater to new players entering the game.

No, I'm not saying go the route of Trammel. No, I'm not saying dumb down the combat system. No, I'm not saying make "safe zones" and carebear Darkfall up.

But what I am saying is that a new player needs to have more viable options for getting money, being a crafter/trader, etc etc, otherwise no matter how awesome Darkfall becomes for us veterans, we WON'T be getting the much needed new blood that we need, and if we do, they won't stay around for a very long time.

klawjon got it exactly right. When we all started on EU-1 (and when I started on NA-1 when it launched), EVERYONE was on the same level. Even when discrepancies between players became more noticeable after the first month or two, new players still were on relatively "appropriate" grounds with those who had played since launch. Nowadays, that is NOT the case.

Think about it, when we all started on EU-1, were people running around with 100 elemental magic schools, full dragon armor, and powerful bows/swords/staves? Were clans as organized as they are now and as powerful as they are now? No, absolutely not. Hell, I remember when mounts were a special thing to have back at EU-1 launch, now all of us veterans have 30 in our banks.

Anyway, I just hope Aventurine realizes this problem and this is why I strongly support LOCAL (not global) auction houses or bazaars of player vendors in NPC cities.

[samureyed]

Anyway, I just hope Aventurine realizes this problem and this is why I strongly support LOCAL (not global) auction houses or bazaars of player vendors in NPC cities.

Good responses, I agree somewhat and also support local bazaars. However, that is not what we are getting.. Yet, I still see plenty of benefits from the vendor system as well. Like I said, perhaps they will implement this later in game, but for now lets try and see the bright side of the vendors rather than dismissing it entirely (like many people are doing)

Also, I did not start on EU with everyone else, i was a few months late to the game. While I still consider myself a "vet" I am not in god mode by any means. I see as many new players here on NA in NPC cities than i did on EU when i first started playing.

Also, it does not take very long to get out of the NPC cities and into a clan city if you choose to do so, especially with the faster skill gain. The hardest part is learning the game and how to actually make money fast.. which is why a "newbie island" or limited pvp invulnerability shield system would probably work much more effectively than a local bazaar for this particular problem.

Lets face it, a local bazaar in NPC cities would only end up in every red player ragequitting because they cannot use them.

[Eiindyin_Scythe]

I think the items linked to the vendors should be displayed on a Global Auction House....but the village location is given where the item is located and who is selling it plus the price.. I just don't think you should be able to buy it from the AH, you would have to travel to the village to buy it.

This way people won't have to spam trade all day, the market can remain competitive, and people will still have to risk losing money when they make trades.

[klawjon]

Good responses, I agree somewhat and also support local bazaars. However, that is not what we are getting.. Yet, I still see plenty of benefits from the vendor system as well. Like I said, perhaps they will implement this later in game, but for now lets try and see the bright side of the vendors rather than dismissing it entirely (like many people are doing)

Also, I did not start on EU with everyone else, i was a few months late to the game. While I still consider myself a "vet" I am not in god mode by any means. I see as many new players here on NA in NPC cities than i did on EU when i first started playing.

Also, it does not take very long to get out of the NPC cities and into a clan city if you choose to do so, especially with the faster skill gain. The hardest part is learning the game and how to actually make money fast.. which is why a "newbie island" or limited pvp invulnerability shield system would probably work much more effectively than a local bazaar for this particular problem.

Lets face it, a local bazaar in NPC cities would only end up in every red player ragequitting because they cannot use them.

I support the new vendor system 100%. Remember I was advocating a limited newb auction house, just enough to get their feet wet. But I guess this is different update for new players. They eventually will need to address this area.

[Elmi]

When you were a noob, everyone was a noob. There were not established cities, villages, and houses. Everyone had to trade with each other. The game is different now. There are not as many newbs as when you started, cities are established, clans formed territory that is fought over, plots are taken. It is not the same. When you started everyone was driving a Honda. Now when a noob starts this game, everyone is driving a Mercedes.

Actually when we were noobs, there was even less trade operations. Because PvE income was much lower (mobs had more HP and less loot). Simply - nobody had spare gold to buy anything from you.

Now you can sell your iron ore/timber/regs almost immediately. It's more easy to be noob now, than it was before :)

[ashenwolf]

2. Noob will not make any sales even if he had a vendor. Because he is a noob and can't produce anything valuable.

Anything valuable for "vets" you mean? ;) When a new player starts the game he has a lot of things he wants to buy (as far as mob farming became easier) and there is relatively small number things offered by NPC vendors. Thats why I was forced to learn some crafting skills I did not intended to learn from the beginning and I'm sure lots of people would do that when they see that there is no offer for their demands (I don't want to be a handyman). Yeah, I could try to find someone in trade chat but I'm not sure if it was easy enough to find a guy to craft me some cheap beginners stuff. Therefore I cannot come with good enough solution for it. In fact I don't like the AH idea and the suggested village vendors would be fine if there wasn't a problem with player owned houses. Its ok with the price: the noobs will not be able to afford that and that's fine, but current 3 day payment system ties you to the game too much. E.g. if I have vacations and go backpacking to the mountains to forget about Internet, civilization and so on I'll lose the house in DF :ohno: That's ridiculous for everyone who has RL. I understand that the game is aimed mostly for hardcore players, but there is also a great number of casuals who are fine with being ganked ( :) ) They could still enjoy the game if they had such possibilities. Why not make their life in DF comfortable enough? I don't mean security or making skilling up easier. Just don't force them to spend their lives in the game.

[Supercedde]

So they add a keep deed, that you can have many players bound to, but it is still only 2 at a largevilla? just as a house?

[fatgit]

meh

Can't wait for vendors, but more stuff in chaos chests that hackers with their free proximity alerts or paid for radars are more likely to find and sell for overinflated prices for the next 3-6 months ?
The chaos chest system was nice in theory, but a great big failure because it's so easy to cheat at if you aren't worried about getting caught (and tbh unless you're blatant, the risk of getting caught isn't great). It's time AV realised that chaos chests are just too easy to detect using external apps.

I'd much rather have a system like the title quests to get my vendor, than rely on beating a radar user to that lucky chest, or end up paying the same hacker 150k for the deed off his vendor in a few weeks.

[Captain Kirk]

So they add a keep deed, that you can have many players bound to, but it is still only 2 at a largevilla? just as a house?

I was thinking about this aswell, our clan bought a Large villa simply because we wanted more bindspots. Does this mean we have to get a keep and the villa is more or less useless for us? :(

[Lumanil]

No, large villas were intended to have 8 slots, if i'm right. That these only have 2 atm is a bug.

[Hatchet]

Last chance for AV tbh - get rid of this UO-lite, and give us the best of UO full on.

Craftable add-ones not mob-dropped or random-chest shite, player vendors for all, houses from NPC's not chests, recall runes that are not fking rares, they should not even be consumables...

Either the grind dies, or the game dies.

[RelentlesCoward]

Bingo, is because this vendor system will FAIL. Is the crafter that need to move and sell items to me not countrary (trade chat still better). I NEVER move to these villages and check every vendor house to buy items if:

1) i'm not safe to buy
2) is not fast and easy
3) i know already what the vendor sell (trough a web board interface)

I, on the other hand find it interesting to know that when i have to go out and explore instead of new mobs or new resources I will be able to find villages with altered prices and things to buy. Like in real life.
Although this raises a set of concerns.
It will be risky carrying them.
If it won't be used as a part of a recreation activity (i.e exploring) it might be that it won't deliver much to the owner.

Maybe Aventurine has other aces under their sleeves that can tie with this. Will see..

[alfar1]

This a retarted idea tbh.
Player vendors and such need to be congregated in hubs, that's what people do, they trade in marketplaces, not remote obscure locations.
Noone, and i mean noone will just go off into the wilderness trying to find a good firesword in one of the villages unless he knows in advance it's there. More trade channel spaming then? This time with coordinates of villages where your goods are on sale?
FFS, taking a good idea (player vendors) and turning it into this = typical AV move.

[Tenebrion]

I would really like to see the option to add vendors to City / Hamlet houses, as well as the ability for individual players to own those houses.

[Dreading A]

It will be cool to see clans faction ratings enable them to put up merchants in cities of the factions they were favorable with.

Higher faction would allow better locations in the cities as well as fewer taxes imposed upon transactions.

Example, Human based clan selling in charbydis would have higher taxes on their goods being sold to players than a Mirdain clan. Thus allowing the Mirdain clan to have an advantage over their human friends.

[GordonGriggs]

Im a huge fan of player housing. I was going to cancel my account. But with the addition of 800 slots and vendors Im gonna keep playing.
I really think that there should be enough housing slots for everyone.

[Skizzix]

Sounds good.

But I do hope taxes will be changed; mainly reduced, and different per house type.

Taxes should raise as you add things (assuming more things can be added in the future). Make what you pay proportional to what you are supporting.

[Skizzix]

This a retarted idea tbh.
Player vendors and such need to be congregated in hubs, that's what people do, they trade in marketplaces, not remote obscure locations.
Noone, and i mean noone will just go off into the wilderness trying to find a good firesword in one of the villages unless he knows in advance it's there. More trade channel spaming then? This time with coordinates of villages where your goods are on sale?
FFS, taking a good idea (player vendors) and turning it into this = typical AV move.

You pretend people are ONLY going to come across a village when they are looking for one and you also assume people will intentionally go from village to village to find ONE THING they like. If a person wants to sell a particular item, he will go in trade chat. If a person wants to buy a particular item, he will go in trade chat.

This is an added feature for the adventuring type. After going around and fighting mobs for fun with some friends, you come across a village with nothing in mind to buy. You look at someones gnome and it is full of items the house owner didn't care to actively sell. Maybe you needed arrows, pots, or ANY staff to keep you going. Instead of bumming from a friend, recalling, or walking further to a city, you can pick them up here. A bonus not for the buyer/seller type but the adventure type.

Moral, your point is moot and disregarded.

KKTHXBAI

[Tengil]

Im a huge fan of player housing. I was going to cancel my account. But with the addition of 800 slots and vendors Im gonna keep playing.
I really think that there should be enough housing slots for everyone.

I'd really wish they'd remove the bloody rent on the houses, and you simply lost the house if you didn't visit it in X days.

[dorikin]

I have been thinking – what successful economic system means… what makes awesome and almost real market in EvE online what it is. And I want to highlight some good things of EvE that would make DF trading system the best of fantasy MMOs.

Here are three basic things that any market system should be built on: supply, demand, logistics.

Right now ,there is very low demand and high supply in DF, abused by lack of information about what ppl sell and what they buy. Low demand, high supply, failed logistics – this kills DF market activity and the best proof of it - tons of unused shit rot in our banks... just take a look at your skinning bag... and someone would definately buy it, if it would be fast and convinient.

AV needs to balance demand and supply and support it with good information system AND challenging transportation process.

Here are some ideas how to make it, it’s just a copy of EvE Online market structure – you cant argue it’s not great or not working. A lot of ppl in EvE plays ONLY AS A TRADERS and have GREAT FUN, the market PvP there is just as thrilling as combat PvP.

1) Demand in player cities is required. Remove all the goods(yes yes reagents too) from NPC vendors in PLAYER cities, these must be one of the main trading goods in the system on par with iron n wood. I know that’s sounds crazy for some ppl. But believe me, in EvE, on the clan base deep in space far away from NPC stations(cities) you have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING available from NPC… everything should be hauled manually to that base and sell there. And THAT IS EXACTLY what drives TRADING. It has been proved to work great.
Now we have a demand, what about the supply? There should be two ways of producing basic goods: 1) availability at NPC Vendors in NPC\chaos cities at fixed price as it is now, to prevent huge speculations on basic and essential goods. 2) Profitable gathering system, where you can gather the exact thing from exact node in reasonable quantities, the profit should be on par with low-mid level NPC farmin. So the not aggressive people and the noobs especially have the reasons and interest to fill the market with basic goods. And not basic things surely should not be available at npc at all.
To make Player cities more reasonable, add +20% materials cost at public Crafting stations in npc cities, so in your own city you could produce goods at lower cost.
Now we have the supply, and now three the very important things that LOGISTICS consists of: INFORMATION, VENDORS and TRANSPORT.

VENDORS.
Make PUBLIC VENDORS(one vendor per city not to spam places with vendor models) in every city\hamlet that everyone can access and set their SELL and BUY orders, BUT implement a TRADING commission on that vendors, let’s say 15-20% - should be good. If you don’t have your own vendor – you should pay for public trading service. If you have your own vendor at a village – then you have an advantage of 20% on your price. And don’t forget friendly GUI for changing you prices on your wish, so the price wars wasn’t tied with finger-killing surfing through laggy tables.

INFORMATION
When we have vendors with settled buy\sell orders we need to know about it! There is no point in hundreds of vendors all over the world if we cant get easy and brief info about their goods not wasting hours for traveling.
The GLOBAL INFORMATION SYSTEM about market – IS A MUST. Trading should be challenging and interesting, but it should have FRIENDLY USER INTERFACE. Running around all the world, spending hours and hours in search of the needed thing – is a bullshit, no one will do it. DF world consists of big regions: Agon and the islands. Implement market monitoring system, so you can see all the goods available at all the vendors but ONLY in your current region. So the pure traders have to collect contacts or travel on their own and gather prices info then speculate goods.
Don’t make searching goods a pain in the ass as AV going to make it now with vendors at villages without any consolidated info about orders.
We need a convenient market monitor, so we could easily find what we need and then start our travel, and the players who want to be traders – have a nice field for market PvP and a CONVINIENT tools to perform their trading maneuvers.

TRANSPORT
We’v got a demand on basic(and not basic) items in Player cities, as you don’t have NPC available goods anymore, we have Traders and Gatherers and Crafters to satisfy this demand with their supply. Now we need a way to transport things. And here AV have a great chance to make the world of DF live and exciting. Implement transport system. Make the caravans real, not that once in a month event. You already have hulks and ships that rot in ppl banks. Make it transport vessels. You need to think about a balance between movement speed and capacity, but I also suggest to implement capacity on mounts for solo traders and noobs who cant afford a 10000kg hulk hovering alone in hostile lands(let’s say 100-200 @regular mounts, 400@ battlehorns, and invent some mule creatures with about1000 capacity, but reduced movement speed… hey, but not spoil the thing making them move slower than a sprinting). And nothing should move slower than a sprint – it makes it too vulnerable and ppl just wont use it, as they dont use any of the hulks or the ships now(vessels must be fast OR powerful... not weak AND slow). So clans will organize their own transport system to supply their bases with resources. And here we got a real caravans, when big clans will use hulks\ships with great capacity, guarding it with zergs, and a lesser clans and soloers will move in a smaller groups, using several Pack Mules. Surely The real banking system should be implemented as well to support transport activity (now it’s impossible exactly due to lack of transportation capacity).

So let’s imagine how will it work on the little exapmle. You captured a hamlet, moved there from nearest chaos\npc city, you have 0 resources at it. Open the market, search for the nearest or cheapest sell order, lets suppose it would be a bulk seller in the nearest village with his own vendor, gather a party and move to the village, buy goods( I am not sure, if the gold should be on you, or in a safety in your bank, I think a transaction fee of 10-20% for safety if you don’t have a cash on you will balance the things), buy the goods at the village – haul them to your city.


That’s it for now, have to go to work….
That’s what devs should focus on, instead of silly deers and rabbits they PROUDLY implement in the next expansion. This is a serious shit.

[alfar1]

You pretend people are ONLY going to come across a village when they are looking for one and you also assume people will intentionally go from village to village to find ONE THING they like. If a person wants to sell a particular item, he will go in trade chat. If a person wants to buy a particular item, he will go in trade chat.

That is exactly correct. And that is the problem because if the person possesing the item is not online or not looking at the chat the trade will not happen.
Player vendors could have provided the opportunity for trade without both parties being present, instead they will be a sort of decoration rather than a utility.

[ISVRaDa]

I have been thinking – what successful economic system means… what makes awesome and almost real market in EvE online what it is. And I want to highlight some good things of EvE that would make DF trading system the best of fantasy MMOs.

.........

Is a pleasure to see people like you in this community offering ideas of one of the best MMOs (EVE).

[Osh Kour]

All we need are cows !

[Ginger Magician]

This is a good idea and can only help encourage pvp in villages which atm are nearly always empty apart from just after downtime when the control points are taken.

I would suggest that rather than introduce new villages they increase the number of slots at existing sites.This will of course increase competition for the control point and the more population and player vendors at a village the more active it will become.

[neon sheild]

awesome!
I can't wait for the expansion!!!

[dbmk]

Like I said, we all managed just fine without a bazaar as noobs.

But the economy didn't. And some of us was hoping that the addition of player owned vendors would breathe some life into it.

This implementation is like kicking a dead bird and yelling "Look it flies!".

[Tenebrion]

Intelligent players will make vendors work. Those that have no experience running a shop in an MMO won't, and will continue to cry for a bullshit Auction House, all the way until they start shopping at establishments run by people like me.

[BlueOreo]

Intelligent players will make vendors work. Those that have no experience running a shop in an MMO won't, and will continue to cry for a bullshit Auction House, all the way until they start shopping at establishments run by people like me.

Exactly right.

Auction houses are for the lose.

Their current plan for vendors is awesome. It'll help develop a a culture in Darkfall by placing more importance on villages, thereby allowing players to create their own content, outside of and away from NPC cities with guard towers.

[DwellerBelow]

Intelligent players will make vendors work. Those that have no experience running a shop in an MMO won't, and will continue to cry for a bullshit Auction House, all the way until they start shopping at establishments run by people like me.

Player vendors make trading totally safe for the seller.

How am I supposed to set some fool up to get robbed at the bank if he just tells me to visit his vendor?

[Realbigdeal22]

Player vendors make trading totally safe for the seller.

How am I supposed to set some fool up to get robbed at the bank if he just tells me to visit his vendor?

What about the buyers? Will they have to come with a zerg just to buy and go back safely? Me, i dont suggest players to camp, wait and kill near their gnome because on how high lvl DF politic is, players will then start to post on the forum to not go to buy stuff from that guild vendors or you will get ganked.

[Neilk]

Intelligent players will make vendors work. Those that have no experience running a shop in an MMO won't, and will continue to cry for a bullshit Auction House, all the way until they start shopping at establishments run by people like me.

are you on na or eu now?

[Dreading A]

it will be cool to see clans faction ratings enable them to put up merchants in cities of the factions they were favorable with.

Higher faction would allow better locations in the cities as well as fewer taxes imposed upon transactions.

Example, human based clan selling in charbydis would have higher taxes on their goods being sold to players than a mirdain clan. Thus allowing the mirdain clan to have an advantage over their human friends.

attention : This needs to be read and responded to. Great ideas.

[Temko Firewing]

To address one of your concerns:

You will be able to chose to either pay the price for the item directly from your backpack or you can chose to pay more safely from your personal bank account which will however add an additional fee to the price.

my village will be awesome: Waterlogging ftw!