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Myridan
11-08-2009, 16:09
I tried posting this in the skills forum, but couldn't.

Just wanted to know, is Sword & Board viable, or are you gimping yourself if you don't swing around a giant sword?

Larocco
11-08-2009, 16:14
it is very viable if u are on a mount with 100 mastery doing 80 damage per second

Myridan
11-08-2009, 16:17
Alright... What about in unmounted combat?

Zinda Black
11-08-2009, 16:18
Alright... What about in unmounted combat?

only if your main source of damage is a bow and you drop to sword and board to protect yourself and deal a little damage at the same time.

Myridan
11-08-2009, 16:39
only if your main source of damage is a bow and you drop to sword and board to protect yourself and deal a little damage at the same time.

Okay, so looks like it's greatswords for me then. Thanks for the help.

dariobrun
11-08-2009, 16:42
sadly not, unmounted fight is the reign of 2h swords and polearms (someone is good with 2h axes but not that many)....hopefully they ll give some love to us board/sword fighters in the upcoming patch

johnnyc3po
11-08-2009, 16:43
sadly not, unmounted fight is the reign of 2h swords and polearms (someone is good with 2h axes but not that many)....hopefully they ll give some love to us board/sword fighters in the upcoming patch

Agreed, I think they just need to increase the passive damage mitigation of the shield to make it viable.

Orolt Lifebring
11-08-2009, 16:54
Agreed, I think they just need to increase the passive damage mitigation of the shield to make it viable.

No, that would be counterproducent with the parry fix where they reduced it.

What they need to do is change the parry mechanics so it makes sword and board viable in certain situations and skill-dependant. I suggested some changes but it was forgotten into the void...

dariobrun
11-08-2009, 17:17
imho what they really NEED to do to make it viable at least is make the parry more responsive so that you dont stand there doing nothing simply cause you hit the button 1ms before the end of the swing animation
That alone would make board/sword much more doable since (at least this is my experience) i get hit a ton of time for full dmg only cause that damn shield dont go up when i press the button...and with the general pace of both combat swings and sprinting all around it is really easy to click a lil bit before the end of the animation and get hit for full dmg for this "bug" thus negating the only advantage of board/sword fighting.

I do also agree that the passive on shields should be way more than they are now, at least for high end shield...they add so little that, when not parrying the dmg is more or less the same as without it...and that would also make a difference between the goblin shields and the high end shields.

With those changes they could also implement an increased stam cost for keeping parry up in order to reduce turtling effectiveness and making parrying more skillful and to keep it balanced.

I really hate that i need to use a 2h in unmounted combat for having a chance to win a fight, i dont want to be the FOTM char like anyone else, i do prefer a lot board/sword combat, but up to now i have been trashed more than i won due to the underpowering of board/sword combo :(

MikeJT
11-08-2009, 17:18
Sword and board with a quickness buff and melee haste buff can be deadly.

You can swing your sword, put up your shield to block, then swing your sword again, effectively parrying all their hits, and hitting them back between swings.

This assumes, of course, that they are unbuffed so they are slow enough for you to get in between strikes.

Against pole-arms, I find that even unbuffed I can parry their hits and get a hit in between swings (assuming they're unbuffed).

However, you will need a high level of parry to do this or you will simply stam-out before they go down, as constantly raising and lowering shield consumes alot more stamina than just holding it.

Alternatively, if you're quick, and a good ping definitely helps, you can block their shots, then swing around and get back hits if they try to circle-sprint around you.

I've had fights where they've never landed an unblocked hit and every single one of my hits was a back hit.

But like I said, you will need a good ping and very good reflexes to do this.

Honestly, I think I just got lucky or was fighting someone who simply thought his circle-sprint-melee-spam tactic was unbeatable.

johnnyc3po
11-08-2009, 17:19
Agreed with the parry thing, but I think it's damn near impossible given lag to have keystrokes reflect when you actually want to parry. This is the only reason why I'd go the passive route. It's not a matter of player skill key mashing, it's an issue with the design/concept of it.

dariobrun
11-08-2009, 18:00
no it is not a problem of lag actually, the real problem is the "queing" system which is non existant (or working really bad).
I think it is actually simply not working as intended since sometimes i can put whirlwind on queue after power attack so that as soon as i finish the pattack animation the next swing is a whirlwind...but most of the time you have to wait for the animation to finish before being able to select a new skill/spell.
If they put in a queue system the parry action would go up as soon as possible even if you clicked 1ms before it was actually useable.

iGasmask
11-08-2009, 19:36
If you have a sithra you could probably knock the shit out of some people.

xpiher
11-08-2009, 23:38
I tried posting this in the skills forum, but couldn't.

Just wanted to know, is Sword & Board viable, or are you gimping yourself if you don't swing around a giant sword?

Its not viable, but mostly because of range and the fact that you can't attack quick enough after blocking or vias versa. I don't think a queing system is needed, but I do think the system should be a bit more responsive. I guess queuing is the easiest way though hu?

Yakamoz
11-08-2009, 23:51
I would like to see a bit more options in melee so 1 handers can be used offensive and 2 handers in defensive way. However I doubt the system can be more responsive when it is now, it is a MMO not a multiplayer game with max 30 people on the server after all. They can still tweak speed of weapons, their damage, range and arcs of swings tho to make them more balanced.

xpiher
11-08-2009, 23:53
The main problem with 1h + sheild, IMO, is the fact that there isn't any way to make a quick attack after blocking. So if you block and then swing your aren't going to do more dps than a 2h user and you'll still be taking a considerable amount of damage.

Akatsuki#1
11-08-2009, 23:58
Sword and board is very viable, faster attacks with nice damage assuming you're using a nice sword. A .55 transmuted or better one handed will put out some very nice DPS. If your movement is up to scratch you can actually avoid two handers attacks whilst delivering some nice damage of your own. With a nice shield and a good sword, you will be taking a lot less damage whilst throwing out a decent amount yourself.

Of course two handers are probably easier to use in melee and of course deal more damage per hit, but sword and board is actually very viable now.

Yakamoz
11-09-2009, 00:03
The main problem with 1h + sheild, IMO, is the fact that there isn't any way to make a quick attack after blocking. So if you block and then swing your aren't going to do more dps than a 2h user and you'll still be taking a considerable amount of damage.

Even if it would be possible from technological point of view I see another problem with balance here. Scoring a successful parry or block is damn easy, there is no aiming ( as we know DF has only one hit box and right now you block attacks incoming from almost 180 degrees ? ) or special timing needed.

It would end in 2 handers constantly got counter attacked while fighting against any reasonable 1 hander user. Without any escape option like dodge etc it would completely broke the present system. Especially that movement on the sides and backward is painfully slow so there is no chance you would step out from the range of incoming counter.

xpiher
11-09-2009, 00:03
Sword and board is very viable, faster attacks with nice damage assuming you're using a nice sword. A .55 transmuted or better one handed will put out some very nice DPS. If your movement is up to scratch you can actually avoid two handers attacks whilst delivering some nice damage of your own. With a nice shield and a good sword, you will be taking a lot less damage whilst throwing out a decent amount yourself.

Of course two handers are probably easier to use in melee and of course deal more damage per hit, but sword and board is actually very viable now.

ahh no. You are better of using a 2h for range and for doing more dps.

<----- has high 1h sword sword mastery.

Its not viable unless you have your opponent stuck in a corner


Even if it would be possible from technological point of view I see another problem with balance here. Scoring a successful parry or block is damn easy, there is no aiming ( as we know DF has only one hit box and right now you block attacks incoming from almost 180 degrees ? ) or special timing needed.

It would end in 2 handers constantly got counter attacked while fighting against any reasonable 1 hander user. Without any escape option like dodge etc it would completely broke the present system. Especially that movement on the sides and backward is painfully slow so there is no chance you would step out from the range of incoming counter.

It would have to be a skill that is activated after a perfect block. Seem my suggestion thread.

http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=219747

Akatsuki#1
11-09-2009, 00:06
ahh no. You are better of using a 2h for range and for doing more dps.

<----- has high 1h sword sword mastery.



It would have to be a skill that is activated after a perfect block. Seem my suggestion thread.

He asked if sword and board is viable; it is. I've actually beaten good polearm users with sword and board.

Lord Zeb
11-09-2009, 08:09
Sword & Board in 1 vs 1, Greatswords & Polearms win.

Sword & Board in group battles, teamwork is possible. The ones that are being attacked can parry, and the óther ones can attack, evening out the high defensive powers which then beat the DPS disadvantage. Especially good if one can box in the enemy, so mobility is zero and DPS is all that counts.

Extremely useful in PvE, as one person gets the aggro and parries with a shield, while the others do damage. And the others can use other weapons and pull up Shields if the aggro is switched. In PvP, the opponents are usually a lot more mobile and might be smarter, so it is not equally efficient, but it is still a viable strategy.

dariobrun
11-09-2009, 10:12
sadly the problem in what you say zeb is not that sword/board is useful in some cases...it is just parry that is.

You could have 0 skill in sword for those pve or teamwork pvp sessions and do it exactly as well as someone with 1h mastery since 99% of what you are doing is simply turtling up in those cases.

Sadly people like me would like to see sword/board combat viable as a real combat method and not only for staying alive longer...

I really think that sadly this is the biggest problem with the game, a general lack of balance between the various gamestyles; there are some skills/weapons that are clearly overpowered compared to the rest and that is why we see everyone going around with exactly the same set-up: polearm/gs, bone armor and fire/arcane magic

When was the last time, if ever, you had a fight against someone trying to use debuffs, daggers, 1handers or even 2h hammers, wearing maybe plate armor?

This is a clear sign of a great unbalancing in the various skills/items since i really dont believe that 99.9% of the playing population always dreamed of being a light armored fighter-mage with a huge polearm ;)

Odiobruto
11-09-2009, 12:26
There are pros and cons to each setup. You're not supposed to always win using just one playstyle. Flexability and versatility are key. Anyone who doesn't level up 1h, 2h, archery, and magic skills is just lazy. Crying for nerfs/buffs because you are lazy is not justified.

2h is, and should always be, stronger than 1h weapons while on foot. Perhaps next time you people ask for 1h dps to be comparable to 2h dps, you should be suggesting the ability to use 2h weapons on mounts as well.

chokke
11-09-2009, 12:42
sadly the problem in what you say zeb is not that sword/board is useful in some cases...it is just parry that is.

You could have 0 skill in sword for those pve or teamwork pvp sessions and do it exactly as well as someone with 1h mastery since 99% of what you are doing is simply turtling up in those cases.

Sadly people like me would like to see sword/board combat viable as a real combat method and not only for staying alive longer...

I really think that sadly this is the biggest problem with the game, a general lack of balance between the various gamestyles; there are some skills/weapons that are clearly overpowered compared to the rest and that is why we see everyone going around with exactly the same set-up: polearm/gs, bone armor and fire/arcane magic

When was the last time, if ever, you had a fight against someone trying to use debuffs, daggers, 1handers or even 2h hammers, wearing maybe plate armor?

This is a clear sign of a great unbalancing in the various skills/items since i really dont believe that 99.9% of the playing population always dreamed of being a light armored fighter-mage with a huge polearm ;)

Wait with the crying till after expansion.

Area 51
11-09-2009, 13:42
sword and board is fine as it is

dariobrun
11-09-2009, 14:13
There are pros and cons to each setup. You're not supposed to always win using just one playstyle. Flexability and versatility are key. Anyone who doesn't level up 1h, 2h, archery, and magic skills is just lazy. Crying for nerfs/buffs because you are lazy is not justified.

2h is, and should always be, stronger than 1h weapons while on foot. Perhaps next time you people ask for 1h dps to be comparable to 2h dps, you should be suggesting the ability to use 2h weapons on mounts as well.

maybe if you took some time to read the various replies you'd have seen that no one is asking for 1h to have the same dps as 2h, but to make board/sword more useable even on foot and not only for mounted combat.

The actual change asked was mostly to have a more responsive parry and a increased gain in protecion to high level shields to make them more used and useful (since it is like that for every item in game i dont see why a high level shield only have very marginal benefits compared to a goblin shield) and not a 2h dps