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View Full Version : No chance for any increase in Melee/archery combat



Ginger Magician
11-01-2009, 06:37
A lot of players seem to be hoping that melee and archery are going to come back into the game but what they have forgotten is the terrible evil of the totally overpowered block skill.

Atm if you wear metal armour and you are outnumbered even as little as 1 v 2 and your opponents both block your attacks then your only option is to run away.There is simply no way to kill them with melee and archery cause blocked damage is negligable and can be negated by a simple food buff.

Even if jump shooting for archery comes back this will make no difference to blockers who will simply block your attacks and wait for backup exactly the same as it now.

My sub expires in 3 days and I would have liked to posted this on a more appropriate forum but it seems they have decided that beta testers despite being active subscribers cannot post on their own forums.

I prefer to use heavy metal armour and use melee and archery as my main forms of combat which is simply unrealistic atm.In 1v1 fights its ok although I have even had to run away from one of those recently cause the guy was blocking but outnumbered there is no real way to win in metal armour against blockers and this is so sad and depressing.

Nothing is more annoying than dying to silly scrubs whose only way to have a chance against you is to outnumber you and use block and there is nothing you can do about it short of taking all your armour off and trying to use magic on them naked.So so sad...

ChemicalBlack
11-01-2009, 07:32
A lot of players seem to be hoping that melee and archery are going to come back into the game but what they have forgotten is the terrible evil of the totally overpowered block skill.

Atm if you wear metal armour and you are outnumbered even as little as 1 v 2 and your opponents both block your attacks then your only option is to run away.There is simply no way to kill them with melee and archery cause blocked damage is negligable and can be negated by a simple food buff.

Even if jump shooting for archery comes back this will make no difference to blockers who will simply block your attacks and wait for backup exactly the same as it now.

My sub expires in 3 days and I would have liked to posted this on a more appropriate forum but it seems they have decided that beta testers despite being active subscribers cannot post on their own forums.

I prefer to use heavy metal armour and use melee and archery as my main forms of combat which is simply unrealistic atm.In 1v1 fights its ok although I have even had to run away from one of those recently cause the guy was blocking but outnumbered there is no real way to win in metal armour against blockers and this is so sad and depressing.

Nothing is more annoying than dying to silly scrubs whose only way to have a chance against you is to outnumber you and use block and there is nothing you can do about it short of taking all your armour off and trying to use magic on them naked.So so sad...

i lol'd

Zarithas
11-01-2009, 07:46
Ginger Magician is probably the most famous MMO gamer in the world.I will summarize his roles in MMO gaming history below

First MMO ever played was the original Neocron started on release late 2002 played until august 2003.A good game in its day and Ginger quickly became the most notorious pk in the game who was universally feared and loathed at the same time.Left the game due to its lack of updates and small playerbase.

Eve Online purchased on release June 2003 played seriously from august 2003 until permabanned by CCP games on 2 accounts June 2007.Played fairly quietly and solo for the first 6 months while building ingame isk and experience about this complex game.Started hardcore pvp from early 2004 onwards becoming -10 security status shortly thereafter.Continued to play solo for some time and fame and reputation in game and forums built up due to extraordinary pvp success.At the height of success and fame in the game leading the notorious pirate guild 'Octobersnow' with over 30 -10 characters mostly well known in their own right Ginger was permanently banned from the game over a fairly minor infraction of the EULA.The real reason for the ban and the ban of his high sec alt account who never had a single infraction of the EULA in 4 years remains unknown but rumour has it that CCP were fed up with the massive amount of support tickets that were filed concerning Ginger and his guild most of which were spurious and also that they didnt like the fact that a -10 character a pirate whose profession they have always despised had become as famous as the game itself.

Pirates of the Burning Sea:commenced play during beta phase but did not use 'GM' tags as required break from infamyGame looked good despite bugs and commenced play from prerelease january 2008 on Blackbeard server as Ginger Magician.Initially joined carebear guild to keep low profile while levelling and learning game.Left this guild after some members who were aware who Ginger was became jealous and hostile towards GM despite his hard work for the guild and pvp leadership.

Formed Wrecking Crew and the guild despite its small size quickly grew its reputation and Wrecking Crew groups of 6 were universally feared and avoided over the entire server.By this time ofc Ginger was the most famous player in the game known over multiple servers even before the transfers as well as attracting considerable forum attention.During these early days of the game pirates struggled to win a single port battle and the Brit nation dominated on all servers winning maps on multiple occasions.

Ginger and Wrecking Crew decided to make a serious push to win a map round for the first time in POTBS history mostly using economic means to push ports into the red and take advantage of their supremacy in open sea pvp.This was a long stuggle fought tooth and nail by the Brits who were helped by the many divisions on the pirate side especially evident during port battles where some guilds who did nothing but econ would always grind a few points for the PB long after the port had been flipped and usually turned up for the PB in minervas and other useless ships and made no attempt to join nation vent or listen to the port battle commander.Things came to a head when during one Port Battle Ginger's fourth rate was deliberately blocked by another pirate and he was sunk during the first few broadsides of the encounter which ofc the other pirates went on to lose.

Gradually it became clear to those pirates outside of the Wrecking Crew camp that the only chance of winning port battles and subsequently the map was to work together and Ginger was the obvious choice as Pirate King.The turning point of the entire campaign was the battle for Bartica where the supreme tactics and leadership of GM and where pirates finally followed orders resulted in the battle known as the Bartica Massacre where the entire British fleet of mainly lineships was almost completely wiped out with no losses on the pirate side.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=jRAwML4nF38&feature=related
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=FA9xFfC6Vgo&feature=related

This was a devastating blow from which the Blackbeard Brits never really recovered and subsequent port battles although still heavily contested resulted in easier pirate victories with the confidence and spirit of the Brit nation broken they were unwilling to risk all with their best ships.
The map campaign lasted long after this port battle but from this moment it was merely a question of when and not if the pirates would win the map.The moment finally came and it was an historic one.The first pirate map win in the history of POTBS by any pirate nation.

Such was our success that a number of leading Brits rolled pirates on the same server and the sorry saga of alts and arranged lineship captures began which left a very sour taste in the mouth even though FLS finally did ban a few accounts months later.

Competition after the map win and the change of allegiances of these players became minimal on Blackbeard and Wrecking Crew left shortly after for Roberts server seeking a new challenge.

If I can be bothered I might update this with the events after and current situation of GM later.

A couple of classic threads about GM
http://www.burningsea.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35154
http://www.burningsea.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24020&highlight=Ginger+Magician
Yep, that's about all I have to say.

Realbigdeal22
11-01-2009, 07:55
The only way to fix melee block/parry is by adding a block/parry bar. When it reach 0, you get stun for a sec and after the stun effect, it go back to full. Only melee attack should be able to stun a player that block/parry. I dont know how many hits, but AV can figure that out them self, but there really need to be a bar system for block/parry only.

melipone
11-01-2009, 08:01
Tonnes of ways they can change parry. My personal one would be for it to last for about a second with a short cooldown between blocks.

If you're getting focus fired in PVP I think your team should have to start doing sacrifice or defensive buffs rather than you just having to hold 1 button

Ragnarok Vanir
11-01-2009, 08:46
DarkFall wasn't built for 1v1.

melipone
11-01-2009, 08:58
Ofc it was..no skill cap, FPS mechanics. This is more of a 1v1 game than any mmo you can name atm

Anyway, that quote about GM is kinda funny. I heard he got banned in Eve due to making IRL death threats or something. Just what I read on the interwebs..probably bs

Ragnarok Vanir
11-01-2009, 09:13
Ofc it was..no skill cap, FPS mechanics. This is more of a 1v1 game than any mmo you can name atm


Cities and siege mechanics have been and continue to be in the spotlight of what DarkFall offers.

To my knowledge, the closest thing DarkFall has ever seen to a 1vCity siege was Celiah riding into a zap tower.

I agree that DarkFall's player mechanics make for great duels, but the Devs have shown clearly that they are building this game around "The largest MMORPG battles ever - involving thousands."

In that light, the block mechanic (and many others) makes a lot more sense. While some players take the game the way it is today and use it very well in a 1v1 play-style, their ability is ultimately irrelevant in the grand scheme of the game.

DarkFall has been designed for large-scale combat, empire building, and politics. I'll go out on a limb here: The Devs wanted the zergs, and they still do. I guarantee they will continue improving the server hardware until it can handle anything the player-base can throw at it. Massive battles are the distinguishing feature that their limiting advertising is relying on.

While the shrinking player-base has generated a much more small-scale pvp oriented environment for the last few months, I don't think this will last. With transfers happening and the current political situation on NA, I think we are going to be seeing a lot more large-scale combat in the future.

melipone
11-01-2009, 09:19
You can have both tho. The blocking mechanic can serve the same purpose it does now while making 1v2 or 1v1 more viable. Blocking in 1v1 doesn't really matter, its just when people turtle and wait for backup or say "screw this i've lost, lets hope someone comes saves meh". Just needs a bit of tweaking, and people will adapt by using the other tools, like sacrifice or maybe there can be some short length buffs for just that sort of situation you can cast on a team mate (Iron Skin?)

KingNapalm
11-01-2009, 09:49
Actualy, there is plenty you can do when your enemy parries. Pop a unburden and then....

Mana missile.
Rend.
Missile Fury.
Venom.
Blast.
Eldritch Sphere.
Frailty.
Shrapnel.
Exhaust.
Needles.
Any 50 nuke.

AND MUCH MUCH MORE!!!!

Haeso
11-01-2009, 09:52
Blocking has never been a winning strategy unless you're fighting someone who massively outclasses you.

melipone
11-01-2009, 09:53
Is that really going to do much damage with no back hits anymore? I used to switch to magery but now is there much point?


Blocking has never been a winning strategy unless you're fighting someone who massively outclasses you.

Not in 1v1 no but it spoils fights when outnumbered

Haeso
11-01-2009, 09:59
Is that really going to do much damage with no back hits anymore? I used to switch to magery but now is there much point?



Not in 1v1 no but it spoils fights when outnumbered

... Blocking is useless against competent teams of players unless you're doing a long range stand off. In which case you shouldn't be readily focusable. Unless you've got some sweet 360 blocking going on, then it might be useful.

Ginger Magician
11-01-2009, 10:11
Unburden lasts for like 15 seconds and in any case we are not talking about noobs who block
.A clever blocker will melee rush you as soon as you switch to a staff as well as popping pots/food etc.While wearing metal armour it is not possible to outdamage the heal rate of the blocker if he knows what he is doing.


If you are in a full plate set for example with armoured casting 100 and 100 to unburden your encumberance after casting unburden will still be around 36.

I defy anyone to kill a blocker of the same level as himself wearing this armour while outnumbered.

It is simply impossible.

The game is boring only being able to win 1v1 fights against non-noob opponents.Its one of the reasons for the low population without doubt.

No elite player wants to play a game where he knows that the chances of winning outnumbered fights are so small.No other MMO that I have ever played has given such an advantage to greater numbers as Darkfall currently does.

The other thing is that escape is really very difficult in Darkfall.Once you turn your back on your enemy and try to escape from a fight where they are engaging you at close range your chances of getting away against competant players is really very slim.Mounts die in a puff of dust and getting hit in the back with magic aoes while mounted is not fun.
9 times out of 10 there is simply no escape and death is inevitable.

McDoogs
11-01-2009, 10:21
No elite player

lol

Dartax
11-01-2009, 10:34
If you are outnumbered you will loose. This is logical. Do you think that noobs should have none chance agains veterans? I can imagine here is no parry then you will be able jump on party of newcomers and kill em without any problem. Yea this will be really honourable as killing AFK gatherers/crafters.

And if you meet skilled party they will be propably able to kill you without parry tactic.

So for me it look like you only wanna "instant noob kill" button.

Try to assimilate yourself to game not change whole game mechanic to be suitable for you.

Phalanx
11-01-2009, 11:28
I'm hoping the promised melee love will add some form of shield break, or a better blocking system.

Orolt Lifebring
11-01-2009, 12:06
If they are not on low health when they start parrying, use mana missile to their backs(it's hella easy to aim and it eventually gets them down). If they are low health, then just keep slashing on them in melee and they'll eventually die(4-5 hits at most).

As simple as that. Or use rend or debuff them with lesser magic/gm/spellchanting/witchcraft debuffs or something, or do whatever you think it's best, but it is possible.

And if you're outnumbered and they know how to fight you, it shouldn't be easy.

Larocco
11-01-2009, 12:53
i havent played df for a while and havent tried killing blockers without op spells for even a longer while so im not sure how stupid blocking is and will be after expansion but i remember it was pretty dumb when i had zero spells. ur best bet is probably to use a mount or switching between the targets attacking u, since if u turn to ur 2nd opponent the 1st guy will either try to damage u or heal up.

DeManiac
11-01-2009, 13:51
Like orolt said, if they know how to counter you, they should be efficient at it.

IF they act like rock against scissors, they should be successful.

the problem with darkfall is, there are no direct paper choice in each of the combat situations possible without switching weapons.


If your a melee for example, you should have two "stances" on that's good against the other counter measure.

For example, overhead swing should do full damage if your target is blocking.
But you shirnk your attack area doing this, thus the blocker has a chance to counter, moving around you again.

Against casters there should be counter measures aswel, same goes for each weapon type.

Now there is just a Rock, a Paper and Scissor tied to each specific weapon, that require you to switch weapons allot, and you need to have everything, in order to be able to counter all situations.


So more attack alternatives, flashy and visible for everyone if needed to make it easier to counter, but give more attacks to each and every weapon type to give them a counter measure.

A defensive, offensive and a third one, countering the defensive style.
What exists now is the Defensive(blocking healing) and the Offensive(nuking the shit out of em).

By switching weapons fast enough, you can counter people, healing while still being that nuking guy, thus creating a 3rd class, the allrounder.
Requiring everything, and fast weapon switching.

I'd rather see more attacks and counters to each style, rather then having it be all about switching combat style all of a sudden.

wormw00d
11-01-2009, 16:53
true, over head doing at least more damage sounds like a good alternative. Make juking more important for def. and aim more important for offense. I like your suggestions.

Chubbyjesus
11-01-2009, 17:18
This guy is a joke, I will never bless him by reading his shitty posts.

Chubbyjesus is way too important to be reading scrub player's opinions.

Sorry. Good luck.

Mulciber
11-01-2009, 17:34
quit the game already pussy

Chubbyjesus
11-01-2009, 17:38
quit the game already pussy

I know right.. Blocking has always been my bread and butter, im sure you remember.

People who are above average PvPers, but below average skills, can use it to counter overly offensive players.

Of course a good smart player with good skills will shit on a turtler everytime.