Crossbows

[dijowoo]

As of now, the accuracy of a bow drops off at medium to long range, while magic is unaffected, and can theoretically hit an unmoving target just as easily at maximum range as it can at point blank range.

Instead of changing the mechanics of archery, which work well as they are, ranged combat in Darkfall could be enriched by the addition of crossbows. These could work similar to bows, but would fire slower, have better damage, better range, and less of an arc on firing. This would allow archers to compete with mages at range, and give them more content to explore skill-wise and itemization-wise.

Thoughts?

[Azraine]

i have no problem with the addition of a new weapon class being the crossbow. However, seeing as you dont do any of the work with a crossbow (like a gun) you shouldnt really be able to "skill it up" just something everyone can use, damage based purely on the type of crossbow/bolt.

[Jango1337]

crossbows would be a cool addition especially when they finally increase protections on plate armor, but how the bow works right now isn't fine imo the arch of the arrow should be reduced by a lot if you have ever shot a real arrow it doesn't arch down right after you shoot it, it actually has some pretty good distance before it is noticeably effected by gravity

[Kaol]

personally i think they should add ak 47's

[Jango1337]

personally i think they should add ak 47's

they have that it's called magic

[Ausei]

All the magic haters make me lol

[dijowoo]

you shouldnt really be able to "skill it up" just something everyone can use, damage based purely on the type of crossbow/bolt.

You can skill up every other weapon skill, including Sithras. You should be able to skill up crossbows as well.

how the bow works right now isn't fine imo the arch of the arrow should be reduced by a lot if you have ever shot a real arrow it doesn't arch down right after you shoot it, it actually has some pretty good distance before it is noticeably effected by gravity

I agree, but at this point changing the bow mechanics would be more hurtful than helpful. Plenty of people have good aim with the bow, including at long range. However, simply based on its mechanics, it can never be as easy as point-and-shoot magic. Crossbows could fill in that gap.

All the magic haters make me lol

I'm not hating on magic at all. I think it works fine, as long as it is balanced so melee/archery is viable(ie, adding content and skills to melee/archery to make it interesting and competitive). This suggestion is for one of the content options that could go a long ways to making archery more interesting, more fun to use, and more competitive with magic.

Unless, you don't want anything to be competitive with magic...?

[Darkparasycte]

Although I can hit my mark well enough at long range with a bow. I would welcome the addition of a crossbow. They could add better protection to heavy armor for arrows, but bolts could do increased piercing damage, perhaps even have them decrease durability on armor at a higher rate. And just like magic fizzles I could see having a crossbow get jammed.

[coder1024]

just make new bows that have the characteristics you're going for rather than adding a whole new type of weapon, plus new type of ammo, plus the crafting recipes for both, etc.

[brockstar]

mmmmmmm i like this idea

[dijowoo]

just make new bows that have the characteristics you're going for rather than adding a whole new type of weapon, plus new type of ammo, plus the crafting recipes for both, etc.

In what way is new content a bad thing?

[Captain Kirk]

just make new bows that have the characteristics you're going for rather than adding a whole new type of weapon, plus new type of ammo, plus the crafting recipes for both, etc.

was just about to type something along these lines! :p

A longbow could work the same way the crossbow would work! :)

[dennishzd]

As of now, the accuracy of a bow drops off at medium to long range, while magic is unaffected, and can theoretically hit an unmoving target just as easily at maximum range as it can at point blank range.

Instead of changing the mechanics of archery, which work well as they are, ranged combat in Darkfall could be enriched by the addition of crossbows. These could work similar to bows, but would fire slower, have better damage, better range, and less of an arc on firing. This would allow archers to compete with mages at range, and give them more content to explore skill-wise and itemization-wise.

Thoughts?

You read my mind Sir this is a very nice suggestion. I can also see crossbows working in Darkfall in the same way you described. ILet's hope they rush it in for the next expansion :ohno:.

/Signed

/Signed

[lanigav]

Where's the logic in crossbows having a smaller arc and more range? Crossbows are smaller bows with a trigger, the modern equivalent of a carbine to a rifle. Crossbows only offer constant readiness (assuming you have drawn them) without having to hold the tension in them. They also offer multishot in some advanced versions.

Speaking pure physics though they hit weaker and do LESS arrow damage. If we are going to add these then I want the "noisy cricket" from Men In Black as a magic equivalent.

Crossbows that work in some semblance of how they do in the real world could be usefull for a quick switch to 1 or 2 ranged shots (already cocked) to finish a target running away. E.g. a meleer's best friend.

Also arrow damage is not the same as piercing damage... it has its own damage type. Polearms (which you slash with) are piercing damage... the damage types are all f***ed up.

[dijowoo]

Where's the logic in crossbows having a smaller arc and more range?

Speaking pure physics though they hit weaker and do LESS arrow damage. If we are going to add these then I want the "noisy cricket" from Men In Black as a magic equivalent.

Also arrow damage is not the same as piercing damage... it has its own damage type. Polearms (which you slash with) are piercing damage... the damage types are all f***ed up.

As this is a fantasy game with magic, floating tanks, and rafts that can outrun ships (have you ever seen Castaway?), I think logic can suffer one more injustice if it means archery will be one step closer to viable.

As per original design, bows in Darkfall do not follow standard physics models for real-life bows. Longbows, for instance, are designed to fire in long, high arcs. The arrow is flung into the air, and actually comes to a stop (vertically) before beginning its decent, regaining its velocity as it plummets.

Composite bows, on the other hand, use shorter limbs with a higher tension string to allow for more direct shots that do not rely as much on parabolic motion, but instead create a much higher initial velocity that reduces the amount of vertical height lost due to gravity before it hits its target.

Crossbows work very similar to Composite bows, producing a high-powered shot that attempts to hit its target in a more direct line. While it is true that crossbows traditionally do not have the maximum range of bows, it must be noted that in the realm of Darkfall, bows do not come anywhere close to having the maximum range of their real-life equivalents.

TL;DR Darkfall is a game, crossbows can provide a point-and-shoot long-range weapon for archers that can easily be balanced to fit into the game.

[Lord Zeb]

Crossbows are multiple times more powerful than bows (wooden: x3, metal: x5, roughly speaking) which is due to the bows being small, but more powerful and drawn harder. And even if the projectile/bolt is thrown forth at a very high power and speed, it hence has less movement energy due to the transfer of energy being done in a shorter span of space, why it does not have a relatively extended range. Not to mention that medieval crossbows were NOT very reliable to hit with, not like the modern crossbows whose accuracy at least can be compared with a rifle, even if not truly reaching it due the more influencable larger projectile. Hence:

That crossbows should have longer range is hence not a certainty.


Furthermore, crossbows should have some sort of randomizing factor in their target shooting, not to make them sniper rifles. (Flying slightly askew, being hard to aim with, trading off speed & accuracy for power.)


And the final point: Crossbow damage should be less dependent on ability (Attribute & skill), which should be eminent in the crossbow damage calculation. To use 50x½Dex instead of Dex in damage calculations would be enough.

[dijowoo]

That crossbows should have longer range is hence not a certainty.


I think you are missing the point of the OP. Mages are sniper rifles right now, and archers cannot hope to match that range blow for blow. Whether RL crossbows can do this is irrelevant, because last time I checked, mages don't exist in RL.

Hence, a weapon akin to a crossbow could fill the need in Darkfall for archers to have a point-and-shoot weapon for longer range engagements. Call them something else if it makes you feel better.

[coder1024]

just make new bows that have the characteristics you're going for rather than adding a whole new type of weapon, plus new type of ammo, plus the crafting recipes for both, etc.
In what way is new content a bad thing?
read my post again. I never said new content was a bad thing. In fact, I suggested new content, "just make new bows that ...". I was simply saying there's a simpler way to do it than what was suggested in the OP.

[dijowoo]

read my post again. I never said new content was a bad thing. In fact, I suggested new content, "just make new bows that ...". I was simply saying there's a simpler way to do it than what was suggested in the OP.

I read your post the first time. You are suggesting a shortcut way to do what I suggested. I am saying there is nothing wrong with going the full nine yards and improving crafting by adding recipes and giving more variety to itemization. I don't know if you have ever used archery, but there are very few bows in the game, especially higher rank ones. AV could go a long way towards improving the variety of weapons available to an entire play style.

On top of that, as my suggestion involved adding a weapon that performs mechanically quite differently from bows, I think an itemization distinction would be helpful. Think of the confusion it would generate when someone picks up a new "different" bow that shoots straight instead of arced.

[MikeJT]

As of now, the accuracy of a bow drops off at medium to long range, while magic is unaffected, and can theoretically hit an unmoving target just as easily at maximum range as it can at point blank range.

Instead of changing the mechanics of archery, which work well as they are, ranged combat in Darkfall could be enriched by the addition of crossbows. These could work similar to bows, but would fire slower, have better damage, better range, and less of an arc on firing. This would allow archers to compete with mages at range, and give them more content to explore skill-wise and itemization-wise.

Thoughts?

The accuracy of bows doesn't actually change over distance. The arrow always follows the same path from the bow to wherever it hits.

The problem is that your own arm obscures your view so you can't actually keep your eye on the target whilst adjust angle.

[dijowoo]

The problem is that your own arm obscures your view so you can't actually keep your eye on the target whilst adjust angle.

That's what I mean. Magic has the advantage of point-and-shoot. I wasn't speaking of mechanical accuracy, but the players ability to be accurate. Right now, it is always be easier to be accurate at range with magic than with a bow.