Post-Conversion Hatred

[PrimalSign]

Iranian president Ahmadinejad, well known as a holocaust denier and anti-Israel, was once Jewish himself.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iran/6256173/Mahmoud-Ahmadinejad-revealed-to-have-Jewish-past.html

A photograph of the Iranian president holding up his identity card during elections in March 2008 clearly shows his family has Jewish roots.

A close-up of the document reveals he was previously known as Sabourjian – a Jewish name meaning cloth weaver.

The short note scrawled on the card suggests his family changed its name to Ahmadinejad when they converted to embrace Islam after his birth.

The Sabourjians traditionally hail from Aradan, Mr Ahmadinejad's birthplace, and the name derives from "weaver of the Sabour", the name for the Jewish Tallit shawl in Persia. The name is even on the list of reserved names for Iranian Jews compiled by Iran's Ministry of the Interior.

Experts last night suggested Mr Ahmadinejad's track record for hate-filled attacks on Jews could be an overcompensation to hide his past.

Ali Nourizadeh, of the Centre for Arab and Iranian Studies, said: "This aspect of Mr Ahmadinejad's background explains a lot about him.

"Every family that converts into a different religion takes a new identity by condemning their old faith."

While a somewhat interesting article by itself, that last part got me thinking about its validity and how post-conversion folk tend to be some of the most outspoken against their former religion. At least from what I've seen in the media and on the internet.

This seems especially true when it comes to Atheists and "deconversion." Former theists who've been raised in a religious household seem to be some of the most outspoken against religion.

So what is it that causes a person to not only forsake their former beliefs, but completely despise them? Is the only way to change your religion by using hate as a catalyst, or does that hatred come in retrospect?

I've never known a (de)convert who didn't hate their old religion but I'd like to know if Forumfallers know of anybody who converted yet remains somewhat neutral or positive about their former faith.

[StrawberryClock]

Self-denial at its greatest?

[Villageninja]

Dirka dirka...muhammed dirka... dirka muhammed muhammed jihad... dirka... jihad

[Attau]

Iranian president Ahmadinejad, well known as a holocaust denier and anti-Israel, was once Jewish himself.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iran/6256173/Mahmoud-Ahmadinejad-revealed-to-have-Jewish-past.html



While a somewhat interesting article by itself, that last part got me thinking about its validity and how post-conversion folk tend to be some of the most outspoken against their former religion. At least from what I've seen in the media and on the internet.

This seems especially true when it comes to Atheists and "deconversion." Former theists who've been raised in a religious household seem to be some of the most outspoken against religion.

So what is it that causes a person to not only forsake their former beliefs, but completely despise them? Is the only way to change your religion by using hate as a catalyst, or does that hatred come in retrospect?

I've never known a (de)convert who didn't hate their old religion but I'd like to know if Forumfallers know of anybody who converted yet remains somewhat neutral or positive about their former faith.

Daddy touched them inappropriately? Most of the 'anti-religion' atheists do seem rather butt-hurt if you ask me. From my perception it's always the ignorant/scared who are zealots... on all sides.

[Vessol]

More the reason to glass all of Iran.

[palo god]

I wonder what all the radicals of his country will do when they find out.

[Vessol]

I wonder what all the radicals of his country will do when they find out.

Probably not care because the Muslims who Hate Jews ratio is about exactly the same as Jews who Hate Muslims ratio in Israel.

[palo god]

Probably not care because the Muslims who Hate Jews ratio is about exactly the same as Jews who Hate Muslims ratio in Israel.

You don't have Jews in Israel volunteering to do suicide bombings against Iran, but you have the vise versa in Iran. Even though the majority of people in Iran don't hate Jews(the same people that voted against their current president), there are a lot of radicals there that completely despise them.

[Vessol]

You don't have Jews in Israel volunteering to do suicide bombings against Iran, but you have the vise versa in Iran. Even though the majority of people in Iran don't hate Jews(the same people that voted against their current president), there are a lot of radicals there that completely despise them.

Both are dangers to Middle East stability.

Both Iran and Israel should be wiped off the face of the Earth.

[palo god]

Both are dangers to Middle East stability.

Both Iran and Israel should be wiped off the face of the Earth.

The only danger to stability in the middle east is the Iranian government and their terrorist ties across the middle east. That doesn't mean Iran should be "wiped off the face of the earth", it means they need a new government. Also, Israel doesn't cause instability in the middle east, the terrorists trying to destroy them are. If no one attacked Israel, Israel would attack no one.

[Vessol]

The only danger to stability in the middle east is the Iranian government and their terrorist ties across the middle east. That doesn't mean Iran should be "wiped off the face of the earth", it means they need a new government. Also, Israel doesn't cause instability in the middle east, the terrorists trying to destroy them are. If no one attacked Israel, Israel would attack no one.

You really are ignorant, are you? You sound like a Neo Conservative.

Both are terrorist states whom have killed thousands of innocents. Both governments must be overthrown.

[palo god]

You really are ignorant, are you? You sound like a Neo Conservative.

Both are terrorist states whom have killed thousands of innocents. Both governments must be overthrown.

You don't even know what a neo-conservative is. You're the one saying whole countries need to be turned into glass craters yet I’m the ignorant one? :lmao:

There will always be innocents killed during war time. If you think that constitutes a country being turned into a glass crater you're crazy, and should seek mental evaluation.

[Vessol]

You don't even know what a neo-conservative is. You're the one saying whole countries need to be turned into glass craters yet I’m the ignorant one? :lmao:

There will always be innocents killed during war time. If you think that constitutes a country being turned into a glass crater you're crazy, and should seek mental evaluation.

Nice debating skills :rolleyes:.

I'm an equal opportunity neo-conservative at least. You are a Bush-ite, Zionist cock sucker. Israel can do no wrong.

[palo god]

Nice debating skills :rolleyes:.

I'm an equal opportunity neo-conservative at least. You are a Bush-ite, Zionist cock sucker. Israel can do no wrong.

I'm a "Bush-ite"?:lmao:

Please show me one comment I've ever posted on these forums defending bush's actions. You wont find a single one.

Damn straight I'm a zionist. Now when did I say Israel can do no wrong? Back in the day you actually used common sense, facts, and could argue, but now you just use baseless straw mans, and when you lose arguments you just say "lololol I iz trolling".

[Vessol]

I'm a "Bush-ite"?:lmao:

Please show me one comment I've ever posted on these forums defending bush's actions. You wont find a single one.

Damn straight I'm a zionist. Now when did I say Israel can do no wrong? Back in the day you actually used common sense, facts, and could argue, but now you just use baseless straw mans, and when you lose arguments you just say "lololol I iz trolling".

You shame the man in your sig.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YGiuF97fRE

Also you are way too fucking easy to hook line and sink. If you think anyone is serious on these sinking forums, then you need to perhaps need to look in the mirror.

/thread

[Lord Bulleteus]

yes civilists die in war but primary targeting civilists schools hospitals and even using illegal weapons is unforgivable for someone who calls them self a democratic state

[palo god]

yes civilists die in war but primary targeting civilists schools hospitals and even using illegal weapons is unforgivable for someone who calls them self a democratic state

What a load of shit, look up human shield Gaza on youtube. If Hamas hide themselves and their weapons in schools and hospitals what do you expect them to do? Israel doesn't specifically target schools and hospitals, that's a load of shit, they target the terrorists inside them.

If Jordanian immigrants aka palestinians want to use themselves as human shields to protect people firing at Israel that's their problem.

You shame the man in your sig.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YGiuF97fRE

Also you are way too fucking easy to hook line and sink. If you think anyone is serious on these sinking forums, then you need to perhaps need to look in the mirror.

/thread

If you think I or the majority of libertarians agree with Ron paul on all issues you seriously need to get your head out of the sand. I disagree with Ron Paul on a handful of issues, such as abortion, stem cell research, the reason why terrorists are attacking us, and his religious views.

I've been replying to you long enough to know when you're serious and when you're not, and lately you've been overtaken with tin-foil hats and radical points of views.

[Vessol]

What a load of shit, look up human shield Gaza on youtube. If Hamas hide themselves and their weapons in schools and hospitals what do you expect them to do? Israel doesn't specifically target schools and hospitals, that's a load of shit, they target the terrorists inside them.

If Jordanian immigrants aka palestinians want to use themselves as human shields to protect people firing at Israel that's their problem.

Yes, because they just throw themselves onto Hamas and begs them to use them as human shields.

I also love how you say that there are no such thing as Palestinians.

Your arguement is like saying "I didn't mean to shoot that kid! I was meaning to hit the evil terrorist behind him! I don't care if I could of used some other means!"

[palo god]

Yes, because they just throw themselves onto Hamas and begs them to use them as human shields.

I also love how you say that there are no such thing as Palestinians.

Your arguement is like saying "I didn't mean to shoot that kid! I was meaning to hit the evil terrorist behind him! I don't care if I could of used some other means!"

Actually yes they do.

Want to prove me wrong on the Palestinian issue?

[Lord Bulleteus]

What a load of shit, look up human shield Gaza on youtube. If Hamas hide themselves and their weapons in schools and hospitals what do you expect them to do? Israel doesn't specifically target schools and hospitals, that's a load of shit, they target the terrorists inside them.

If Jordanian immigrants aka palestinians want to use themselves as human shields to protect people firing at Israel that's their problem.

http://www.unhchr.ch/huricane/huricane.nsf/view01/9B63490FFCBE44E5C1257632004EA67B?opendoc ument

read and learn blockhead

[Vessol]

If you think I or the majority of libertarians agree with Ron paul on all issues you seriously need to get your head out of the sand. I disagree with Ron Paul on a handful of issues, such as abortion, stem cell research, the reason why terrorists are attacking us, and his religious views.

I've been replying to you long enough to know when you're serious and when you're not, and lately you've been overtaken with tin-foil hats and radical points of views.

If you actually post on Forumfall in a clear and precise manner on a serious topic now a days. You must be a very boring person. Especially considering it's a Saturday night and I'm drinking and having a good time shitting around on forums and you're here trying to act all superior and intellectual. But what else can you expect from a poor 08er? Naddaaaaaaaa

Nothing on this forum I have ever posted has been my 100% view or opinion.

[Lord Bulleteus]

The UN's 575 page report on Israel's war crimes: http://bit.ly/7FSWt - confirms Israel used Palestinians as human shields

Israel also used human shields

[palo god]

http://www.unhchr.ch/huricane/huricane.nsf/view01/9B63490FFCBE44E5C1257632004EA67B?opendoc ument

read and learn blockhead

I don't care what the UN says, and you're the guy that posted a link claiming that whats happening in Gaza is genocide, even though their population grew over 30% in the last 10 years.

The UN's 575 page report on Israel's war crimes: http://bit.ly/7FSWt - confirms Israel used Palestinians as human shields

Israel also used human shields

Doesn't prove anything, the UN also says that cuba is a good example to the world.

If you actually post on Forumfall in a clear and precise manner on a serious topic now a days. You must be a very boring person. Especially considering it's a Saturday night and I'm drinking and having a good time shitting around on forums and you're here trying to act all superior and intellectual. But what else can you expect from a poor 08er? Naddaaaaaaaa

Nothing on this forum I have ever posted has been my 100% view or opinion.

So posting facts makes me a boring person?:lmao:

[Lord Bulleteus]

so lets all just believe what the israeli say

[palo god]

so lets all just believe what the israeli say

I have more reason to believe the Israelis over the Jordanian immigrants of Gaza.

[Vessol]

So posting facts makes me a boring person?:lmao:

Or pointing out your own version of the facts.

Rather what makes you a boring person is that you're sitting at home on a Saturday night, trying to argue with a internet troll why you think Israel is the coolest thing since sliced bread.

[Marrik]

Iranian president Ahmadinejad, well known as a holocaust denier and anti-Israel, was once Jewish himself.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iran/6256173/Mahmoud-Ahmadinejad-revealed-to-have-Jewish-past.html



While a somewhat interesting article by itself, that last part got me thinking about its validity and how post-conversion folk tend to be some of the most outspoken against their former religion. At least from what I've seen in the media and on the internet.

This seems especially true when it comes to Atheists and "deconversion." Former theists who've been raised in a religious household seem to be some of the most outspoken against religion.

So what is it that causes a person to not only forsake their former beliefs, but completely despise them? Is the only way to change your religion by using hate as a catalyst, or does that hatred come in retrospect?

I've never known a (de)convert who didn't hate their old religion but I'd like to know if Forumfallers know of anybody who converted yet remains somewhat neutral or positive about their former faith.

well, as an atheist who used to be a Christian, its because i realized what a crock of shit it was, when i see something thats obviously wrong i point it out.


also at the time of my deconversion (i was in my early teens) i was still going to a Lutheran school. dont know if you guys know any Lutherans, but in my experience they are the most 2 faced, exclusionary cocksuckers you will ever have the misfortune of meeting.


and yet, when they found out i wasnt a Christian, there was a complete 180 in their behavior. becuase you see, Christian kids have it drummed into their heads from a very young age that they are supposed to be better and more holy than non-believers, so when confronted with one they switch to "Love of Jesus" mode and do the whole light of the world bullshit thing.


i of course pointed out to them their complete hypocrisy and how they would all be going to hell if their God existed. lots of red faces and downturned eyes, but no answers. fuck those "people".





i really feel sorry for a 30 year old "educator" who thinks that "if so many people believe it, how can it not be true???" is a compelling arguement.

[palo god]

Or pointing out your own version of the facts.


On March 31, 1977 the Dutch newspaper Trouw published an interview with Palestine Liberation Organization executive committee member Zahir Muhsein (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zuheir_Mohsen). His statements were also later published in the Boston Herald (http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/bostonherald/access/128344371.html?dids=128344371:128344371&FMT=ABS&FMTS=ABS:FT&date=Jun+24%2C+2002&author=Done+Fedr&pub=Boston+Herald&edition=&startpage=018&desc=OP-ED%3B+Palestinian+state+would+undo+Israe l) and you'll find them at various Internet sites as well. Here's what he said:

The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct "Palestinian people" to oppose Zionism.
For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan.

How does Jordan feel about this statement?

King Abdullah in 1948: "Palestine and Jordan are one..."
Prince Hassan of the Jordanian National Assembly on February 2, 1970: "Palestine is Jordan and Jordan is Palestine; there is only one land, with one history and one and the same fate".
Abdul Hamid Sharif, Prime Minister of Jordan in 1980: "The Palestinians and Jordanians do not belong to different nationalities. They hold the same Jordanian passports, are Arabs and have the same Jordanian culture."
King Hussein in 1981: "The truth is that Jordan is Palestine and Palestine is Jordan."

And here's what a few Arab-Americans have to say:

Distinguished Arab-American Princeton University historian Philip Hitti testified before the Anglo-American Committee, "There is no such thing as 'Palestine' in history."
According to Arab-American columnist Joseph Farah, "Palestine has never existed - before or since - as an autonomous entity... There was no language known as Palestinian. There was no distinct Palestinian culture. There has never been a Palestine governed by the Palestinians. Palestinians are Arabs, indistinguishable from Jordanians (another recent invention), Syrians, Lebanese, Iraqis, etc."

In other words, Jordan is Palestine. Jordanians and Palestinians are Arabs.
The Arabs deserve an Academy Award for their ability to create a fictional world in which they are victims of oppression at the hands of Israel and the U.S., deceiving the West by preying on their value for human life - a value not evident in their own culture.
The "victims" were masterfully created by Arab leaders; rather than using the billions of humanitarian aid dollars they received from the U.S. and other Western countries for programs to improve the lives of the people they are responsible for, they increased their own personal wealth and illegally invested what was left on weapons and terrorist training facilities. Training camps from which they attack the hand that feeds them.

Rather what makes you a boring person is that you're sitting at home on a Saturday night

And what are you doing exactly?

trying to argue with a internet troll

So you’re only a troll when you get proved wrong? How convenient.

why you think Israel is the coolest thing since sliced bread.

Lol another straw man?

[Serenius]

I'm an atheist who bashes Christianity quite a bit. I guess you can call me a deconvert... but I was only a Christian because I was under the age of 10 and didn't know there was an option. As soon as I found out my father wasn't religious it put the entire world into perspective and I started to think about it. My father being an atheist definitely helped me "Deconvert" which probably took about a day of asking my dad why he wasn't a Christian like the rest of the family.

[Haeso]

Iranian president Ahmadinejad, well known as a holocaust denier and anti-Israel, was once Jewish himself.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iran/6256173/Mahmoud-Ahmadinejad-revealed-to-have-Jewish-past.html



While a somewhat interesting article by itself, that last part got me thinking about its validity and how post-conversion folk tend to be some of the most outspoken against their former religion. At least from what I've seen in the media and on the internet.

This seems especially true when it comes to Atheists and "deconversion." Former theists who've been raised in a religious household seem to be some of the most outspoken against religion.

So what is it that causes a person to not only forsake their former beliefs, but completely despise them? Is the only way to change your religion by using hate as a catalyst, or does that hatred come in retrospect?

I've never known a (de)convert who didn't hate their old religion but I'd like to know if Forumfallers know of anybody who converted yet remains somewhat neutral or positive about their former faith.

Why do we get pigeonholed into hating the religion we grew up with. Can't I hate all religions equally. I don't discriminate with my hate, that would just be unfair and rude.

[PrimalSign]

Why do we get pigeonholed into hating the religion we grew up with. Can't I hate all religions equally. I don't discriminate with my hate, that would just be unfair and rude.

This seems especially true when it comes to Atheists and "deconversion." Former theists who've been raised in a religious household seem to be some of the most outspoken against religion.

Maybe I should have been more specific -- atheists turn against all forms of religion after deconverting. People who convert into another faith typically only attack their old one.

I'm an atheist who bashes Christianity quite a bit. I guess you can call me a deconvert... but I was only a Christian because I was under the age of 10 and didn't know there was an option.

That seems to be a major source of the anger, in atheists at least. Those who grew up in a religion feel they've been forced into it by their parents and community.

I wonder if that also holds true for conversions into another faith instead of secularism.

[StrawberryClock]

well, as an atheist who used to be a Christian, its because i realized what a crock of shit it was, when i see something thats obviously wrong i point it out.


also at the time of my deconversion (i was in my early teens) i was still going to a Lutheran school. dont know if you guys know any Lutherans, but in my experience they are the most 2 faced, exclusionary cocksuckers you will ever have the misfortune of meeting.


and yet, when they found out i wasnt a Christian, there was a complete 180 in their behavior. becuase you see, Christian kids have it drummed into their heads from a very young age that they are supposed to be better and more holy than non-believers, so when confronted with one they switch to "Love of Jesus" mode and do the whole light of the world bullshit thing.


i of course pointed out to them their complete hypocrisy and how they would all be going to hell if their God existed. lots of red faces and downturned eyes, but no answers. fuck those "people".





i really feel sorry for a 30 year old "educator" who thinks that "if so many people believe it, how can it not be true???" is a compelling arguement.

I thought you were jewish?

[Marrik]

no i just lied about that in an arguement one time to win :p


i dont even remember what it was about but i vaguely remember saying i was jewish one time.

[Beraskus]

I grew up Mormon. When I was 16 I moved out and stop going to church. I must say that all through my childhood all I saw were hypocrites. But I direct my hate to the idiots that forced me into the religion even when I made it clear I didn't believe to the point where I had to leave home to be rid of them.

I think the religion itself is fine and there were a few people that actually weren't hypocrites and I respect them and I get really annoyed when I see people ignorantly bashing any religion.

So you could say i'm part of a minority of religiously raised "deconverts" that isn't raging at religion.

[Tzacharu]

I'm an atheist, and have been pretty much my entire life.. I guess you could say I was a Lutheran, but that was only because my parents were. I didn't attend church until I was around 15 or 16, and that was only because my parents told me to.

After going to church class for a full quarter year every week and attending church on Sundays once a month, I realized how stupid this was. I never wanted to attend church in the first place. I always thought it was a waste of time, and after being educated on what religion was (other than a waste of time) it reinforced my belief that there probably is no God or gods of any kind and every second we spend worshiping or learning about religion is a second that will be wasted forever.

I spent my time after class and on the drive back home making fun of what we "learned" that day and what people said in the class that made the class amusing. I think me and my brother, who was also attended the class, were the only ones in there that were truly atheist and were, because we were told to by our parents, attending Lutheran classes.

What especially struck me as annoying about religion was during one sermon in which the heads of the church actually had the nerve to hand out graphs illustrating what we should be donating to church, and what most of us are donating to church. I witnessed a lot of people upset over the whole matter, especially my mother and older sister who basically left the church after the "sermon". Even after we have unregistered from the church, they continue to send us letters which we can use to donate them checks and cash.

I don't hate any religion to be honest, I just hate some of the people that are represented by religion. I can get along with religious people. My other brother is religious and I get along with him fine, and some of my friends are too. I'm neutral on religion, but indifferent on the people that worship religion.

[Don Chino]

"I never understood why people would kill for there religion, then I thought, Wait, if Optimus Prime told me to gak somone, that fuckers going down."

[paade]

oh cool, so once his family believed in one fantasy tale over all the other tales, until one day they decided some other story is better and changed shirt.

Kinda like being a devoded trekkie and then later saying "trekkies are nerds lol, im with the lightsaber guys now. Theyre way cool."

Too bad theres no supervirus that spreads only through holy scripts.

[Villageninja]

Too bad theres no supervirus that spreads only through holy scripts.

There is. The most deadly virus of all, faith. It drives people to insanity to the point of believing in miraculously false things and even starting wars over it, wiping people off the face of the planet.

[Drool111]

Sigh. so much whacky shit.