Fuck the police

[PirateGlen]

Man holds home invader at gunpoint while on phone with 911, cops bust in and shoot him 6 times in the back, two sof such shots while he's on the ground.

Highlights:
"Tony believed he was going to die; the 911 tape records his plaintive goodbye to his family: '... I love you ... I love you.' Then Tony made what he believed was a dying request to the officers; he did not want his young family to see him shot and bloodied. Officers callously ignored his request and painfully dragged Tony by his injured leg, through the home and out to his backyard patio, where they left him bloodied and shot right in front of Lesley, Matthew and Zachary." The Arambulas say the officers later dragged Anthony onto gravel, then put him on top of the hot hood of a squad car, and "drove the squad car down the street with Tony lying on top, writing in pain."

Lilly later told a police internal affairs investigator that Anthony had pointed his gun in his direction, "in the 'ready' position," the complaint states. But Anthony Arambula says he was facing away from the officers, who could not have even seen his gun.

"Still not knowing that he is being recorded n the 911 tape, Sgt. Coutts interrupted Officer Lilly's admission and apology with his assurance that the cover-up would commence: 'That's all right. Don't worry about it. I got your back. ... We clear?'"


http://www.courthousenews.com/2009/09/23/Family_Says_911_Tape_Caught_Cops_Plannin g_Cover-Up_After_Shooting.htm

[Paganini]

inb4 nothing happens to the cops

[PrimalSign]

At least the guy survived, but yeah, fuck the police.

[Isil]

Yeah sure, fuck the police today and get fucked by everyone tomorrow everywhere.

[Aleucard]

And this shit is why I think we need to refine the way that police officers are hired. Just getting any random bum off the street that looks tough will invariably let more than a few high school bullies through. This is the inevitable result of that. Things like this are why I think that the recent "punishments" for doing atrocities such as this don't fucking cut it. This guy should be skinned alive with a rusty spoon, then placed on a bonfire in town square. Perhaps that will send a strong enough message?

[Serenius]

"The 911 tape continued to record what happened even after Officer Lilly unloaded his weapon into Tony, including Officer Lilly's post-shooting, one-word 'assessment': 'Fuck.'"

Lol. They are going to get so much money.

[Villageninja]

A tragic situation to be sure. But this is not "fuck the police".

The officer who did the shooting had absolutely no business firing upon a man without even saying a word. It doesn't take long to say "freeze" or "Don't move". Granted, he was not alerted to the situation and had no idea that it was being reported that the homeowner had the suspect held at gunpoint... but the first reaction should not be shoot first ask questions later. I think he deserved to AT LEAST lose his job over it because that is not acceptable for an officer of the law.


All that said, he was cleared of all charges. Old news. (http://www.azcentral.com/community/phoenix/articles/2009/09/25/20090925phxarambula0925.html#)

So, indeed, this is not "Fuck the police" this is a case of "Fuck corruption". Personally, I think this guy, the dispatcher, his supervisor, and the review board that handled it all need to have their jobs re-evaluated. Clear the place out.

I can only hope that the family got money.

[PrimalSign]

Yeah sure, fuck the police today and get fucked by everyone tomorrow everywhere.

You sound like a certain kind of cop. You know, the kind with an overinflated sense of ego. The kind that protects his "brothers" no matter what laws they break. The kind that's a product of the corrupt cop culture making law enforcement the equivalent of government sponsored criminals. The kind of cop that this thread is about.

Until the police start policing their own I have no problem saying "Fuck the Police."

Edit:

All that said, he was cleared of all charges. Old news.

So, indeed, this is not "Fuck the police" this is a case of "Fuck corruption". Personally, I think this guy, the dispatcher, his supervisor, and the review board that handled it all need to have their jobs re-evaluated. Clear the place out.

This kind of rampant corruption is exactly why it's a case of "Fuck the Police." The whole law enforcement system in America needs to be purged. Either jail them for their crimes (if warranted) or at least fire them.

[StrawberryClock]

I thought all cops were C students.

[Villageninja]

You sound like a certain kind of cop. You know, the kind with an overinflated sense of ego. The kind that protects his "brothers" no matter what laws they break. The kind that's a product of the corrupt cop culture making law enforcement the equivalent of government sponsored criminals. The kind of cop that this thread is about.

Until the police start policing their own I have no problem saying "Fuck the Police."

Isil is right to an extent. It's hard for the GOOD cops to do their jobs effectively when everyone resists them like the plague. But when something bad happens to -you- the world is ending and you're wondering when do the police get here?

The problem with people is that they can't find the middle ground in being trusting to the point of using common sense. Are there bad people out there? Sure there are, contrary to public belief (which is ironic in itself) police are humans with emotions and feelings. The police are generally not going to be your enemy if you aren't a criminal or breaking some sort of law. This was a freak occurrence that someone posted because it's interesting to read. Don't blow things out of proportion please.

[Villageninja]

This kind of rampant corruption is exactly why it's a case of "Fuck the Police." The whole law enforcement system in America needs to be purged. Either jail them for their crimes (if warranted) or at least fire them.

The review board that decided that are not the police. I don't see your point here. I agree that the lot of them should be fire but again it's not fair in the slightest to use "Fuck the police"

[PirateGlen]

Isil is right to an extent. It's hard for the GOOD cops to do their jobs effectively when everyone resists them like the plague. But when something bad happens to -you- the world is ending and you're wondering when do the police get here?

The problem with people is that they can't find the middle ground in being trusting to the point of using common sense. Are there bad people out there? Sure there are, contrary to public belief (which is ironic in itself) police are humans with emotions and feelings. The police are generally not going to be your enemy if you aren't a criminal or breaking some sort of law. This was a freak occurrence that someone posted because it's interesting to read. Don't blow things out of proportion please.

If he'd only shot him in the back, then did everything he could to make up for it, it'd just be a mistake. Instead they treated the victim like shit and tried to cover up their mistake. It's not just about the initial mistake it's about everything they did succeeding the initial mistake.

[PrimalSign]

Are there bad people out there? Sure there are, contrary to public belief (which is ironic in itself) police are humans with emotions and feelings.

I'm certainly not arguing against that.

The cop culture is dangerous because it works based on human failings. It's yet another manifestation of collectivism that places others (non-cops) below the heroic individuals necessary for the maintaining of law and order (cops).

This overinflated sense of self leads to negligent actions, and those actions are further encouraged by corrupt Internal Affairs that will cover the asses of "their own kind." I'm willing to give law enforcement a little extra leeway due to their job, but far too often have I seen assholes get off scott free because of the bias in the system.

Do some research yourself. This isn't a rare thing and the victims typically get jack when it happens.

[Villageninja]

If he'd only shot him in the back, then did everything he could to make up for it, it'd just be a mistake. Instead they treated the victim like shit and tried to cover up their mistake. It's not just about the initial mistake it's about everything they did succeeding the initial mistake.

And that was maybe 2-3 individuals? The shooter, his sergeant and...?

[Villageninja]

I'm certainly not arguing against that.

The cop culture is dangerous because it works based on human failings. It's yet another manifestation of collectivism that places others (non-cops) below the heroic individuals necessary for the maintaining of law and order (cops).

This overinflated sense of self leads to negligent actions, and those actions are further encouraged by corrupt Internal Affairs that will cover the asses of "their own kind." I'm willing to give law enforcement a little extra leeway due to their job, but far too often have I seen assholes get off scott free because of the bias in the system.

Do some research yourself. This isn't a rare thing and the victims typically get jack when it happens.

I've helped bust a few bad ones in my career. I'm certainly not one to back weak links in the chain. Typically when it happens the results are rather minor when people get "shafted" (I don't like it, but obviously we can't prevent it from happening every so often). Again, it's not the entire police force/ whatever agency you want to bring into question. If one precinct is corrupt, it does not automatically mean the entire thing is corrupt. I'm just arguing against globally damning the police force and saying they're all corrupt, that's just plain silly.

This particular case, yes, they should all be investigated by the feds and action taken against each one separately. Will it happen? Probly not, nothing I can do about it sadly. We also don't have all the facts, never do with the media which is another problem. Most cases you see in the media that form these evil lynch mobs against cops who do their jobs in a questionable situation do not and can not ever present all the evidence (It's just rarely possible for them to do that, besides it doesn't help their ratings if they can't build something interesting and suspenseful).

I am a pretty firm believer in having a serving limit for police. As in, only letting them -be- officers of the law for say... 5 years. After so long of working in the field any person will become jaded to an extent. And the buddy system does need to be destroyed, but logically it's very very hard to do that. Since they are humans, they're going to form bonds. If they think they can help their buddies by doing something so little as lessening the impact against them, they probably will. I don't like it one bit, but that's how it is. I've been saying for years and years that these police review boards need to start having far higher requirements for people they hire than they do right now (Fuck, Mike Tyson could probably join a police review board in most states if he really wanted to. That is a problem).

[PrimalSign]

If one precinct is corrupt, it does not automatically mean the entire thing is corrupt. I'm just arguing against globally damning the police force and saying they're all corrupt, that's just plain silly.

I never said every policeman was corrupt, but I believe there to be a strong force for corruption within law enforcement. When I say "Fuck the Police" I am referring to that negative social force which breeds itself in law enforcement rather than each and every individual policeman in the world. Hence why I first mentioned these problems being caused by a certain kind of cop.

Unfortunately corruption spreads itself via personal connections and social reinforcement. Bad cops can encourage other cops to act similarly. That is why I believe it's necessary to purge the ranks of those who're more a danger to society than the criminals they're supposed to be protecting us from. When I said purge, I meant a massive investigation of law enforcement to find and root out the problem cops -- not the complete removal of every cop currently employed.

I am of the mind that something needs to be done sooner rather than later.

[PirateGlen]

And that was maybe 2-3 individuals? The shooter, his sergeant and...?

I think you're misinterpreting the whole thread. Every good cop should be with me on this because each bad cop who practices this way weakens their capacity to do their job.

How often do they get away with their cover ups at the expense of innocent people? It's not just about the cops that do this, it's the systemic culture that allows it to continue.

I suspect the police that participate in this find numerous way to rationalize their tribal mentality. It does not mitigate the reality that cops break the law or otherwise fuck up, and use their position of authority to shift it onto the innocent.

[Villageninja]

I think you're misinterpreting the whole thread. Every good cop should be with me on this because each bad cop who practices this way weakens their capacity to do their job.

How often do they get away with their cover ups at the expense of innocent people? It's not just about the cops that do this, it's the systemic culture that allows it to continue.

I suspect the police that participate in this find numerous way to rationalize their tribal mentality. It does not mitigate the reality that cops break the law or otherwise fuck up, and use their position of authority to shift it onto the innocent.

My point is that you cannot investigate the entire police force across the US. We don't have the time, and we certainly don't have the money to pay for something like that. We obviously know what's wrong, and what should be done... why do you need to look into something so much larger scale? Fire the pricks and move along. If you'd read my other post you would see that I don't like the "buddy system" any more than you do, but it's inevitable to happen when people work in dangerous environments day to day with each other. It's like a minor version of a war bond. It's going to happen whether you or I like it or not.

That's one of the reasons I say they should not serve for such long periods of time.

[Marrik]

after he gets back from his payed vacation, hell get a medal for valor. the PD has to make a show of solidarity. thats whats important, after all.

[Vessol]

i was at seafood fest today

I and some friends were sitting in the shade of a cop car when we heard a thunk and saw some cops arresting some foul smelling man.

as they shoved him in the car he shouted "THIS IS WHAT THEY DO! THIS IS WHAT THEY DO!" "HELP HELP!" "OW OW OUCH STOP IT"(as no one is touching him)

twas funny

[PirateGlen]

My point is that you cannot investigate the entire police force across the US. We don't have the time, and we certainly don't have the money to pay for something like that. We obviously know what's wrong, and what should be done... why do you need to look into something so much larger scale? Fire the pricks and move along. If you'd read my other post you would see that I don't like the "buddy system" any more than you do, but it's inevitable to happen when people work in dangerous environments day to day with each other. It's like a minor version of a war bond. It's going to happen whether you or I like it or not.

That's one of the reasons I say they should not serve for such long periods of time.

I agree. I don't think we should. I'm sure most of even the corrupt ones would fall into line if anyone actually started getting in trouble for this. The problem is that they do it and get away with it and it KEEPS happening that way.

Too often they try to write it off as something that this sort of corrupt culture is exclusive to whomever gets caught doing it; failing to acknowledge that it's not just 1-2 bad apples; failing to realize that if they are soft on the ones that get caught, there's much less incentive for those that don't get caught to change their behavior.

[Silverhandorder]

Is it good time to suggest we need a private police force?

[PirateGlen]

Is it good time to suggest we need a private police force?

No. I'll pass on blackwater level corruption showing up in my neighborhood. At least when the cops rape me I can take them to court instead of arbitration.

[Silverhandorder]

No. I'll pass on blackwater level corruption showing up in my neighborhood. At least when the cops rape me I can take them to court instead of arbitration.

Wild West worked well. Don't believe Hollywood movies.

[Villageninja]

I agree. I don't think we should. I'm sure most of even the corrupt ones would fall into line if anyone actually started getting in trouble for this. The problem is that they do it and get away with it and it KEEPS happening that way.

Too often they try to write it off as something that this sort of corrupt culture is exclusive to whomever gets caught doing it; failing to acknowledge that it's not just 1-2 bad apples; failing to realize that if they are soft on the ones that get caught, there's much less incentive for those that don't get caught to change their behavior.

The problem is that there's really no way to change it that I can see without a very very massive overhaul of the entire system and how it works. Would most likely result in a largely less effective police force for a good while whatever the solution happens to be. I'm no objector to change but, to be completely honest, I can't see anyone being able to change the way things go down. I do think they should be a lot more harsh on those who commit blatant acts like cover ups on things that should not be covered up. They're protecting the law and then go and break it, that's just a slap in the face. Obviously there's petty exceptions to this but you get the point.

[Silverhandorder]

The problem is that there's really no way to change it that I can see without a very very massive overhaul of the entire system and how it works. Would most likely result in a largely less effective police force for a good while whatever the solution happens to be. I'm no objector to change but, to be completely honest, I can't see anyone being able to change the way things go down. I do think they should be a lot more harsh on those who commit blatant acts like cover ups on things that should not be covered up. They're protecting the law and then go and break it, that's just a slap in the face. Obviously there's petty exceptions to this but you get the point.

Privatize them and they will have an incentive to force out the corrupt members of the force and police them selves.

[Villageninja]

Privatize them and they will have an incentive to force out the corrupt members of the force and police them selves.

Or an incentive to further corrupt themselves and slowly become the mob.

[Silverhandorder]

Or an incentive to further corrupt themselves and slowly become the mob.

So what is stopping them now?

[SSguy]

1. Execute the corrupt.
2. Don't hold criminals hostage...fucking shoot them and make it look like self defense

I never said every policeman was corrupt, but I believe there to be a strong force for corruption within law enforcement. When I say "Fuck the Police" I am referring to that negative social force which breeds itself in law enforcement rather than each and every individual policeman in the world. Hence why I first mentioned these problems being caused by a certain kind of cop.


Every time you say fuck the police some retard like jangjang goes off to masterbait. It doesn't matter who you referred to.

[SSguy]

Privatize them and they will have an incentive to force out the corrupt members of the force and police them selves.

You know...I would be laughing like crazy....but its you.....our resident retard.

Privatize = less corruption?? I'm afraid to wonder what kind of retarded lala land you are living in.

If they were privatized, the dispatcher would delete the audio tape, and the entire family would be executed and then the criminal would be shot and takes the blame for it.

[PirateGlen]

Wild West worked well. Don't believe Hollywood movies.

You realize they were filling a government position (often elected) much like we have now... It's not like you could chose between competing police forces in the wild west. You've essentially suggested that we change to what we have now and stated it worked well.

[Vessol]

i say we privatize government

[PirateGlen]

i say we privatize government

I say we governize privates.

[Villageninja]

So what is stopping them now?

The threat of the government actually coming down on their heads. The knowledge that there are good cops and supervisors out there and people who do watch them (the "corruption" thing does not come into play here, as I've said it's going to happen from time to time in ANY law enforcing/making organization). Dash cams are the absolute best thing that have come along for police, as the tale of the tape does not lie, good or bad. The tapes also provide a GREAT means of training and teaching people how to do and how NOT to do things instead of relying on jaded old timers completely for their sources of information.

Privatizing the police means all supervision is automatically gone. The laws no longer truly apply to them as they then answer to nobody but themselves. All policies in place in police precincts now are null and void, which accounts for many cops being professional rather than simply enforcing the law to the T. Privatizing would also allow for far too much discretion where it should not be given, and not enough discretion in the same way. Not to mention they would not be receiving funds from the government if they were private organizations. Who in their right mind is going to risk their lives daily for an even shittier pay than cops already receive? And where is this pay even going to come from? If the government is still paying these now privatized police who is going to make sure they're actually doing their jobs and not sitting on their asses pretending to. Who's going to train these privatized police? There's far far far too many unknowns and far too many things that I really don't feel like going on and on and listing the hundreds of problems that would be associated with doing that. The bottom line is, it simply is not a good idea for this country.

[kab112]

Cops in Iceland don't even have guns.. we're so l33t we only need our viking axes.

[Silverhandorder]

If they were privatized, the dispatcher would delete the audio tape, and the entire family would be executed and then the criminal would be shot and takes the blame for it.

What is stopping them now?

You realize they were filling a government position (often elected) much like we have now... It's not like you could chose between competing police forces in the wild west. You've essentially suggested that we change to what we have now and stated it worked well.

That is true they had governments form eventually. However I was speaking about violence and arbitration. In wild west violence was far lower then in the states. They discovered that fighting each other was too costly and arbitration was far cheaper for both the winner and loser of the argument. If you like me to I will give you a mises link that goes into history of it.

The threat of the government actually coming down on their heads. The knowledge that there are good cops and supervisors out there and people who do watch them (the "corruption" thing does not come into play here, as I've said it's going to happen from time to time in ANY law enforcing/making organization). Dash cams are the absolute best thing that have come along for police, as the tale of the tape does not lie, good or bad. The tapes also provide a GREAT means of training and teaching people how to do and how NOT to do things instead of relying on jaded old timers completely for their sources of information.

So you are trying to say that that in public system there is oversight built into it. What makes you think there will be no oversight of the private industry?


Privatizing the police means all supervision is automatically gone. The laws no longer truly apply to them as they then answer to nobody but themselves. All policies in place in police precincts now are null and void, which accounts for many cops being professional rather than simply enforcing the law to the T. Privatizing would also allow for far too much discretion where it should not be given, and not enough discretion in the same way. Not to mention they would not be receiving funds from the government if they were private organizations.

If you are going to use every bad stereotypes of the private industry why can't I do the same then?

Who in their right mind is going to risk their lives daily for an even shittier pay than cops already receive? And where is this pay even going to come from? If the government is still paying these now privatized police who is going to make sure they're actually doing their jobs and not sitting on their asses pretending to. Who's going to train these privatized police?

Why do you think only a bureaucrat can think up of how an industry has to work? Do you ask these questions about steel industry? Do you ask there questions of the car industry? I think that is intellectually dishonest to claim that only a bureaucrat can run a company.

There's far far far too many unknowns and far too many things that I really don't feel like going on and on and listing the hundreds of problems that would be associated with doing that. The bottom line is, it simply is not a good idea for this country.

There are far too may unknowns in socializing education, healthcare and in stimulus money. That did not stop you from supporting those issues. If I assumed wrong on all 3 I apologize.

[Marrik]

And this shit is why I think we need to refine the way that police officers are hired. Just getting any random bum off the street that looks tough will invariably let more than a few high school bullies through. This is the inevitable result of that. Things like this are why I think that the recent "punishments" for doing atrocities such as this don't fucking cut it. This guy should be skinned alive with a rusty spoon, then placed on a bonfire in town square. Perhaps that will send a strong enough message?


or at the very least, stop refusing to hire people for being too smart. at least here in Orlando, the police WILL NOT hire you if your IQ is higher than 109.

[Villageninja]

What is stopping them now?



That is true they had governments form eventually. However I was speaking about violence and arbitration. In wild west violence was far lower then in the states. They discovered that fighting each other was too costly and arbitration was far cheaper for both the winner and loser of the argument. If you like me to I will give you a mises link that goes into history of it.



So you are trying to say that that in public system there is oversight built into it. What makes you think there will be no oversight of the private industry?




If you are going to use every bad stereotypes of the private industry why can't I do the same then?



Why do you think only a bureaucrat can think up of how an industry has to work? Do you ask these questions about steel industry? Do you ask there questions of the car industry? I think that is intellectually dishonest to claim that only a bureaucrat can run a company.



There are far too may unknowns in socializing education, healthcare and in stimulus money. That did not stop you from supporting those issues. If I assumed wrong on all 3 I apologize.

Yeah you're pretty much wrong on assuming all of those things about me. I, personally, like everything the way it is. I just think the education department needs more options, and the fucking army needs less money. It's pretty clear to me that you've never actually stepped foot into a police station, nor know how they work aside from the silly cop/law shows you see on T.V. or things you've heard from your buddies so I'll just end the conversation here to save myself the aggravation of explaining the inner workings of them, and all the things to keep them in check. If you'd like to explain how privatized police would oversee any of the things you seem to be so valiantly defending, please, enlighten me. Also, maybe you should take a trip to your local state police HQ. Might even give you a tour and will more than likely answer all the questions you have about what keeps them in line.

I would love for you to prove to me that there is no oversight in the current system. Please please please, prove to me that there is no oversight in the current system. You can't even begin to imagine the shit storm that is created by these types of occurrences usually. I mean, jesus christ even the media alone is going to make life a living hell for this guy and his sergeant even if nobody else does. This single case is a matter where the overseer, the overseers of the overseer, and the deciders of both overseers all agreed on one thing. Is it complete corruption for that area? Probably not entirely. Are there facts we aren't getting? Of course. Did they make a horrible fucking decision? Probably.

Also, I gave no stereotypes whatsoever. I simply pointed out that everything I listed would have absolutely zero way of keeping it in check, thus making it infinitely easier and more likely to happen.

And about the money thing. Who else is going to pay the police? Are they going to save you from an armed burglar then tell you that you owe them $5000 for saving their stuff? Are they just going to terrorize people on the highways and give them tickets for the tiniest minute things?

[Villageninja]

or at the very least, stop refusing to hire people for being too smart. at least here in Orlando, the police WILL NOT hire you if your IQ is higher than 109.

It happens pretty often too. I still think the policy is retarded (no pun intended).

[Silverhandorder]

It's pretty clear to me that you've never actually stepped foot into a police station, nor know how they work aside from the silly cop/law shows you see on T.V. or things you've heard from your buddies so I'll just end the conversation here to save myself the aggravation of explaining the inner workings of them, and all the things to keep them in check. Also, maybe you should take a trip to your local state police HQ. Might even give you a tour and will more than likely answer all the questions you have about what keeps them in line.

So your argument against me is that you know better of how police stations work now? Isn't that convenient. So then instead of attacking my argument on it's merits you choose to attack my character.

Yeah you're pretty much wrong on assuming all of those things about me. I, personally, like everything the way it is. I just think the education department needs more options, and the fucking army needs less money.
So how am I wrong in assuming you are for those things? You just admitted you are.

If you'd like to explain how privatized police would oversee any of the things you seem to be so valiantly defending, please, enlighten me.

Probably better then it is done now. They will get paid by people and businesses too protect them where needed. It can take a form on insurance, subscription or fees.

I think it would take in the same form as it is now mainly patrols and guards.

I would love for you to prove to me that there is no oversight in the current system. Please please please, prove to me that there is no oversight in the current system.

Please prove to me how anything you claimed about private police force is true. Mainly the part where there will be no oversight.

You can't even begin to imagine the shit storm that is created by these types of occurrences usually. I mean, jesus christ even the media alone is going to make life a living hell for this guy and his sergeant even if nobody else does.
So wouldn't the same apply to a private police force? It's not like media is going to stop existing all of a sudden.

This single case is a matter where the overseer, the overseers of the overseer, and the deciders of both overseers all agreed on one thing. Is it complete corruption for that area? Probably not entirely. Are there facts we aren't getting? Of course. Did they make a horrible fucking decision? Probably.

What does this part mean?

Also, I gave no stereotypes whatsoever. I simply pointed out that everything I listed would have absolutely zero way of keeping it in check, thus making it infinitely easier and more likely to happen.

This is also making little sense but I am going to make an assumption here and attempt to answer you.

You said

Privatizing the police means all supervision is automatically gone.

Can you prove that to be true? The media is still there, the courts are still there, the customers are still there. I would suspect a business like police would transparency to get customers.

The laws no longer truly apply to them as they then answer to nobody but themselves.

This is a blatant lie. They have to answer to their customers and to the courts. If they do not obey the law the militia, the army and other police forces will be obligated to prevent them. How are they going to do that if no one is going to pay them? You trying to say the police will turn into mafia? What is preventing from doing so now? Is the factor that is preventing them now going to go away with their privatization? I don't think so.


All policies in place in police precincts now are null and void, which accounts for many cops being professional rather than simply enforcing the law to the T.

Can you prove that police will stop following standard practices?

Privatizing would also allow for far too much discretion where it should not be given, and not enough discretion in the same way.

What does this even mean? This all goes under the oversight and standard practice subjects which you did not even begin to prove.

And about the money thing. Who else is going to pay the police? Are they going to save you from an armed burglar then tell you that you owe them $5000 for saving their stuff? Are they just going to terrorize people on the highways and give them tickets for the tiniest minute things?
People, business and government will pay police.

If highways are run by the government the government can contract private police to patrol them and to enforce the speed limits.

The police can overcharge you and say you have to pay 5000$ but then you can go to the court and claim they overcharged you. It works exactly the same way if you were overcharged by a plumber or a car mechanic. Just because you did not have time to negotiate does not mean that the police can charge you more than they charge usually. It also does not cost money to get a quote ahead of time.

http://www.libertarian.co.uk/lapubs/polin/polin017.pdf

[Villageninja]

I'm not going to break my word in saying I was going to end the conversation. I just want to state, for the record, that I seriously overestimated your understanding of law and order. That is my fault. I figured you had a clue about what you were talking about but I guess they were right in the other thread when they said you advocate a mad max way of doing things. I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt, I really did. I'll know better in the future than to try and argue with a brick wall.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrjwaqZfjIY

Have a good one, seeya in future threads.

[Empty Pockets]

Tony believed he was going to die; the 911 tape records his plaintive goodbye to his family: '... I love you ... I love you.' Then Tony made what he believed was a dying request to the officers; he did not want his young family to see him shot and bloodied.

This is the interesting part that makes me think something more is going on here than meets the eye.

If I caught a home invader in my house and called the cops, it might cross my mind to be careful that the cop doesn't mistake me for the bad guy, but telling the 911 dispatcher my last wishes? that's something totally different.

Why the fuck did he expect to die? that suggests something way deeper than a simple home invasion.

not enough to go on here, just a skimover thought.

[Silverhandorder]

This is the interesting part that makes me think something more is going on here than meets the eye.

If I caught a home invader in my house and called the cops, it might cross my mind to be careful that the cop doesn't mistake me for the bad guy, but telling the 911 dispatcher my last wishes? that's something totally different.

Why the fuck did he expect to die? that suggests something way deeper than a simple home invasion.

not enough to go on here, just a skimover thought.
Maybe getting shot in the back will make you think there is an off chance I might die.

[Empty Pockets]

Maybe getting shot in the back will make you think there is an off chance I might die.

eh, had to reread it, I thought he said that shit to the dispatcher before the cops even arrived, thats what I get for skimming

still curious what happened to the burglar, he was only passingly referenced in the article - his identity might have something to do with the extreme force the cops used

[Villageninja]

eh, had to reread it, I thought he said that shit to the dispatcher before the cops even arrived, thats what I get for skimming

still curious what happened to the burglar, he was only passingly referenced in the article - his identity might have something to do with the extreme force the cops used

Probably pissed himself thinking the cop was shooting at him.

[Drool111]

Wow, that's fucking extreme