Darkfall vs. Skill Cap

[blob]

I wish AV all the best for new expansion but can we have some cool names for specializations anything else but mage killer, archer destroyer and that stuff. they sound little stupid to me.

[Tren]

Read my last reply to Kasmos... it applies to you too.

So you are saying you agree, excellent knew you would come around in the end :D

[Elmi]

I wish AV all the best for new expansion but can we have some cool names for specializations anything else but mage killer, archer destroyer and that stuff. they sound little stupid to me.

True. I propose "stick fucker".

[Phalanx]

"Suffer not the witch" would be a perfect name.

[lkx]

If they do again an half-work (like the weak spelladdons thing), the game is doomed.
If they do a good work, the game can still be good.

I realized that i've been a bit too harsh here.
If they fail in their design of char specialization, the game could simply be reclassified to MMOFPS (not a MMORPG nor a MMORPGFPS anymore).

[telanerv]

In my opinion, AV has the right philosophy in making this game!!
a skill cap would detract from the game, and archery etc improvements will b cool

THAT BEING SAID,

i think AV needs to add MORE options that continue their theme to spur CHARACTER DIVERSITY.

Like the archery +dam to mages, add more options that force people into specializing their character in unique ways!

This would include magery schools that you CANT HAVE AT THE SAME TIME!!
i won't steal your thunder you can come up with good ideas too

but ALSO--- don't make it a permanent change! let us re-work our character if we want!




ALSO MORE INCENTIVES FOR PEOPLE TO BE OUT OF GUARD TOWERS

keep up good work, don't let ur feelings get hurt by the :bang::bang::bang:

l8r

[Narcowski]

@telenerv: I agree with you more than I disagree with your failed punctuation, and that's saying something (I can be a stickler for decent grammar).

@Aventurine: More specialization options will always be appreciated in the future, but even more than that, I'm glad that you have chosen this path over a skill-cap-based one. It is a much more flexible system.

[Kasmos]

I bolded the part your childish, "gimme, gimme now" mentality towards this, somehow is completely unable to comprehend.

This game is damn near brand spanking new. It's not finished. It's being constantly worked on, added to and updated.

OF COURSE the system now isn't delivering what we want. This is the whole reason why we've been having these discussion in the first place...

No one's discrediting your concerns, what we've discredited is your method of addressing those concerns.

:bang:

And that's fine, you don't like the idea of a skill cap as do others, but there's a lot of us that do and the polls show that. Sure polls can be biased, but it's hard to deny that this poll's results (http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=206666) can't be too far from the general in-game consensus.

30.78% said no skill cap and you should be able to max out whatever you want if you have the time.

60.4% said they wanted either a hard cap or soft cap with decay. And guess which of those two won the poll (and even beat no skill cap at all)?

That's right, soft cap with decay.

Finally, there's the 8.82% (the big minority) that wanted something different. Well, the minority won with Aventurine's newest post on the topic which is fine.

My point is that you claim that I and other procappers are in the minority.

You're just wrong, straight and simple.

Either way, it's pretty pointless at this point to keep debating (or for the most part, arguing) this topic until we see the expansion notes and see how it plays out. I just won't sit by here and have you act like my thoughts are the minority, because obviously they are not.

[junkoe]

The route AV is currently taking, is fine.

With us only being allowed one character, and with the slow stat gains an somewhat slow skill gains(not really). Having to constantly work on your character because you don't like sticking to ONE thing, would be painful.

I can't speak for everyone but I speak for myself. I know I am way behind the curve on stats an most skills but that's alright. I put in a lot less time an effort than those ahead of me. I like that no matter what, the effort I put in, stays that way. Some days I can really grind it out an hit a milestone on something or get a new spell whatever.

I love the freedom to develop and play my character how I see fit. Some days I am lazy an just go around with a bow, other days it's full on reg burning crazy goodness. If I had to work the skills I like to use (which is all of them) I would never have skills at a decent level. The time I do have, would be spent trying to keep stuff I didn't use the day before, so I don't lose progress.

The road of adding diversity by choices that limit others is perfect. You can still train all your skills an stats. If you want to spec out, you do so and you can always change it WITHOUT losing your progression in other areas.

I hope AV continues down this path. I think it best suites the one character per account deal. Putting in caps an decay would just create more work for everyone, furthering the gap between those who can play all day, and those who cannot.

[Nex Vita]

And that's fine, you don't like the idea of a skill cap as do others, but there's a lot of us that do and the polls show that. Sure polls can be biased, but it's hard to deny that this poll's results (http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=206666) can't be too far from the general in-game consensus.

30.78% said no skill cap and you should be able to max out whatever you want if you have the time.

60.4% said they wanted either a hard cap or soft cap with decay. And guess which of those two won the poll (and even beat no skill cap at all)?

That's right, soft cap with decay.

Finally, there's the 8.82% (the big minority) that wanted something different. Well, the minority won with Aventurine's newest post on the topic which is fine.

My point is that you claim that I and other procappers are in the minority.

You're just wrong, straight and simple.

Either way, it's pretty pointless at this point to keep debating (or for the most part, arguing) this topic until we see the expansion notes and see how it plays out. I just won't sit by here and have you act like my thoughts are the minority, because obviously they are not.

was waiting for some one to post about said poll.

[Kaol]

was waiting for some one to post about said poll.

decay would be crap, who wants decay and how does that solve anything?

[Komma]

I would like to see them expand on this somewhat. I dont think the example given with archery makes much sence. Lets say you want to shoot underwater. You should have to give up use of the fire magic line. Want to use jump shot? Give up another magic line. Want to give up elementals altogether. Open up an archery line where you have skills to level like you do in magic. Maybe an aoe shot or a shield avoiding shot or a siege shot(use on clan stones or buildings).

You could still lvl every skill in the game and switch back and forth but would make the game a whole lot more interesting.

[junkoe]

decay would be crap, who wants decay and how does that solve anything?

I agree, I think people who vote for a softcap or decay are just frustrated that they don't have the same time to dedicate to working there character as others.

[junkoe]

I would like to see them expand on this somewhat. I dont think the example given with archery makes much sence. Lets say you want to shoot underwater. You should have to give up use of the fire magic line. Want to use jump shot? Give up another magic line. Want to give up elementals altogether. Open up an archery line where you have skills to level like you do in magic. Maybe an aoe shot or a shield avoiding shot or a siege shot(use on clan stones or buildings).

You could still lvl every skill in the game and switch back and forth but would make the game a whole lot more interesting.

Yes, like the prestige class system. Those are fine. You give up some things for a boost to others. You don't lose progression, you just give up abilities for other ones, which you can always revert if you tire of that in 24 hours.

Like an assassin prestige class for example. They get 2x bonus to backhits. They cannot wear anything crafted from armorsmithing though. So it would make sense for someone that would probably want to blend in an wear studded or leather and an assassin's hood and get some back shots in on someone an book it.

Diversity this way, never hurts your character's progression, it just helps you in your playstyle, which ever way that may be.

[Draxous]

And that's fine, you don't like the idea of a skill cap as do others, but there's a lot of us that do and the polls show that. Sure polls can be biased, but it's hard to deny that this poll's results (http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=206666) can't be too far from the general in-game consensus.

30.78% said no skill cap and you should be able to max out whatever you want if you have the time.

60.4% said they wanted either a hard cap or soft cap with decay. And guess which of those two won the poll (and even beat no skill cap at all)?

That's right, soft cap with decay.

Finally, there's the 8.82% (the big minority) that wanted something different. Well, the minority won with Aventurine's newest post on the topic which is fine.

My point is that you claim that I and other procappers are in the minority.

You're just wrong, straight and simple.

Either way, it's pretty pointless at this point to keep debating (or for the most part, arguing) this topic until we see the expansion notes and see how it plays out. I just won't sit by here and have you act like my thoughts are the minority, because obviously they are not.

was waiting for some one to post about said poll.

Taken from the 1st page of that poll.

Your so called ultimate poll failed to take into account the best option:
No skill cap, but put in limitations about what players can access instantly during combat based on gear.
So you can be a mage, you can be an archer, and a warrior - You just will have a hard time being more than one or two at a time without sacrificing stuff in order to gain tactical flexibility.

Soft can and Hard cap, doesn't matter: Same problem is that you can't have it on a one character limit server. Erasing all your work and regrinding something new in order to experience the diversity of the game is horrible, especially in a game like DF, no matter how you try to wiggle your way around it with details.

Specialization: If this required skill gain then you run into the same problem of not letting players experience all facets of the game eventually, and nobody wants to lose hard work spent grinding.
If it's not skill gain, but simply a system of enabled abilities and perks you can only access one at a time but change on a whim, well there's nothing wrong with that but it also doesn't fundamentally do anything to solve the problem of people continuing to be a triple facted warrior without having to sacrifice anything for the flexibility they gain.

Leaving things as they are is also not an option, because there is a significant problem with everyone having the same basic build and tactics; Everyone has a two hander, a one hander (for mounts), a bow, and the best magic they can afford to grind, and they switch seemlessly between each role right in combat.
The solution here is to have a combat inventory that will limit what players have instant access to, being of a limited size and encumberance (it simulates the limitations of carrying gear into combat on an humanoid body without encumbering yourself) - Meaning that if you want to have a two hander, a one hander, a shield, a bow, and a staff, you're not going to have much room on your body for quivers of arrows or a sack of reagents, and you might not be able to wear the heaviest armor without limiting your movement and attack speed,or something along those lines.

Such a system's primary role is to not restrict players from accumulating OPTIONS in the form of new skills, but still being able to somewhat restrict them along realistic lines about what they can choose to have instant access to during combat (thus leading to more specialization and uniqueness as people either try to be hybrids or choose to focus on one thing as part of a group).

:lmao:

[Elemental]

Skill cap is a great idea BUT, Limit it to like 50+ 3 Elemental Schools. 1 Melee Mastery, and Archery remaining the same. This way people wont fire of 4 lvl 90 Elemental Nukes with Hasten spells on you.

[Kasmos]

I agree, I think people who vote for a softcap or decay are just frustrated that they don't have the same time to dedicate to working there character as others.

Nope, I wanted soft cap + decay to promote diversity and decrease the need for massive AFK macroing and bloodwalling.

But try again.

[Gammabeam]

Bows don't work under water in real. Try it out...The bowstring can't reach the speed needed to push the arrow more than a couple meters. If you fire from outside into the water, you might get viable hits up to 1m depth. After that the shoots are non lethal and even above armor should catch the worst.
Beside bowstrings in midage were all somewhat water sensitive and lost their tense soaked with water.

The Bow jumpshoot is an endless kiting instrument, especially if you can use it at sprint speed.... So you have to counter that with ranged wich renders melee useless. So force the user down to runspeed or it will break the game.

That's just two 'new' proposed features of the expansion.
I could puke about both already.

[Fugean]

Bows don't work under water in real. Try it out...The bowstring can't reach the speed needed to push the arrow more than a couple meters. If you fire from outside into the water, you might get viable hits up to 1m depth. After that the shoots are non lethal and even above armor should catch the worst.
Beside bowstrings in midage were all somewhat water sensitive and lost their tense soaked with water.

The Bow jumpshoot is an endless kiting instrument, especially if you can use it at sprint speed.... So you have to counter that with ranged wich renders melee useless. So force the user down to runspeed or it will break the game.

That's just two 'new' proposed features of the expansion.
I could puke about both already.

your argument is crap.

darkfall is an mmorpg. where you play a character in a fantasy world.

how does this relate to real life?

[Brannoc]

I think we've seen some fantastic discussion in this thread but it seems like the argument has become cyclical in nature so I'm going to close it for now. Thanks for the great feedback!