If you could bring one thing back in the past to get wealthy.....

[biggunsar]

I would bring a simple satellite acurate map drawn on paper of the world, back to 1200 AD

Every king or queen would basically make me rich beyond imagination, due to the fact, the new world had not been discovered, neither had south america, it's gold treasures, nor the caribbean with it's wealth. Or the orient with it's spices and silk. One simple map could show that king or queen where to sail, DECADES ahead of any other country, to claim all that land for themselves. Basically making them the rulers of the entire farking globe!

My family would probably be immensly rich today with the amount of wealth i woudl have gotten from that simple map.

So, what would you bring back, within the constraints of time travel, and the limitiations of the epoch, if you choose to become wealthy?

(ie, remember, can't bring a garmin back to 1800's cause there was no satalites for the garmin to work)

[Caffy]

I'd take a camera back to around 0 A.D. and take pictures of Jesus. If he rises from the dead the Christians will pay out the rear for them, and if he stays dead I'm sure somebody would want to buy them.

[Gloomrender]

I'd take a camera back to around 0 A.D. and take pictures of Jesus. If he rises from the dead the Christians will pay out the rear for them, and if he stays dead I'm sure somebody would want to buy them.

Considering no such person ever existed, this plan would fail.

[Mordhak]

I would bring a simple satellite acurate map drawn on paper of the world, back to 1200 AD

Every king or queen would basically make me rich beyond imagination, due to the fact, the new world had not been discovered, neither had south america, it's gold treasures, nor the caribbean with it's wealth. Or the orient with it's spices and silk. One simple map could show that king or queen where to sail, DECADES ahead of any other country, to claim all that land for themselves. Basically making them the rulers of the entire farking globe!

My family would probably be immensly rich today with the amount of wealth i woudl have gotten from that simple map.

So, what would you bring back, within the constraints of time travel, and the limitiations of the epoch, if you choose to become wealthy?

(ie, remember, can't bring a garmin back to 1800's cause there was no satalites for the garmin to work)

First off, the ships in 1200 A.D. weren't sturdy enough for ocean travel, and second, neither were their navigational instruments. Third, in 1200 A.D. the medieval world was still firmly under the grip of the catholic church, and the belief that the earth was flat was absolute. One whacky guy who claims to be from the future and talks all funny really isn't gonna sway the opinion of a whole civilization.

[Trendane]

If I were no longer worried about screwing up the future....I'd bring all the drugs I could carry and take over The Church.

But, in truth, I'd probably just whatever I'd need to mark the exact location of shipwrecks which were supposed to have held some sort of treasure but, once found....said treasure was already gone. 'Cause it was me what took it just weeks before the researchers got there!

Haha!! Neener neener!

[Crysill]

I'd bring a winning Powerball jackpot ticket, back to about a week ago.

The Multi-State Lottery Association would basically make me rich beyond imagination, due to the fact that the numbers had not been discovered. Neither had the Powerball Number, nor the day those numbers would be generated. One simple ticket could show the MUSL or MSLA that I had guessed the exact sequence of numbers, DAYS before anybody could know them and use them, to claim all that money for themselves, basically making them win the entire farking jackpot!

My family would be immensely rich today with the amount of wealth I would have gotten from that simple ticket.

[Strangia]

First off, the ships in 1200 A.D. weren't sturdy enough for ocean travel, and second, neither were their navigational instruments. Third, in 1200 A.D. the medieval world was still firmly under the grip of the catholic church, and the belief that the earth was flat was absolute. One whacky guy who claims to be from the future and talks all funny really isn't gonna sway the opinion of a whole civilization.

Actually, no one really believed the Earth was flat, that was a myth started during the Scopes Monkey trials to attempt to discredit religion. It was actually a very small group of catholic extremists back in those days who actually proposed the Earth was flat. We had known the Earth was round (and had calculated its circumference) since the Greeks.

[spurx]

First off, the ships in 1200 A.D. weren't sturdy enough for ocean travel, and second, neither were their navigational instruments. Third, in 1200 A.D. the medieval world was still firmly under the grip of the catholic church, and the belief that the earth was flat was absolute. One whacky guy who claims to be from the future and talks all funny really isn't gonna sway the opinion of a whole civilization.

By 1200 A.D. the educated (including king/queen) knew the earth was round.

[biggunsar]

I'd take a camera back to around 0 A.D. and take pictures of Jesus. If he rises from the dead the Christians will pay out the rear for them, and if he stays dead I'm sure somebody would want to buy them.

How do you develop the film? How do you power the batteries...you obviously fail.

Now your stuck in 0Ad with some peice of plastic junk.
PS, did you think your digital shit will last 2 thousand years. I didn't say once you traveled back in time you could come back to this time.

[Mordhak]

Actually, no one really believed the Earth was flat, that was a myth started during the Scopes Monkey trials to attempt to discredit religion. It was actually a very small group of catholic extremists back in those days who actually proposed the Earth was flat. We had known the Earth was round (and had calculated its circumference) since the Greeks.

By 1200 A.D. the educated (including king/queen) knew the earth was round.

You guys know, you were there.

[Crysill]

By 1200 A.D. the educated (including king/queen) knew the earth was round.Yeah, and I'll bet the education of 1200 A.D. was just fantastic.

Can't we ever have a simple discussion without the Round Earth wackos trying to derail it with their arguments? It's like they can't spend 5 minutes without trying to convince people that the Earth is not flat. It's quite a sad look into how insecure the Round-Earthers are in their own beliefs; probably because they know they can't prove it.

[Jedicake]

Considering no such person ever existed, this plan would fail.

A person named Jesus easily could have existed, and probably did. Doesn't prove Christianity or Creationism though.

Just proves there was a guy named Jesus who was either a normal person, a psycho, or a good philosopher who had good questions and people admired him and made up stories.

Or he didn't exist at all, But you sound pretty confident that he didn't exist lol which is kind of arrogant :D

[Apex Vertigo]

You guys know, you were there.

I'd bring as many weapons and ammunition as I possibly could to a town in the Dark Ages and either massacre a royal family for the lulz or sell them the technology for a ridiculous amount of wealth.

Also in my pocket would be a manual that explained how to make each weapon.

EDIT: Actually I'd have to eliminate the Church first, rambo style.

[Viluin]

Tooth paste.

[wertyn]

a fully manned navy battle cruiser.

/win

[Kuruptix]

I would bring a simple satellite acurate map drawn on paper of the world, back to 1200 AD

Every king or queen would basically make me rich beyond imagination, due to the fact, the new world had not been discovered, neither had south america, it's gold treasures, nor the caribbean with it's wealth. Or the orient with it's spices and silk. One simple map could show that king or queen where to sail, DECADES ahead of any other country, to claim all that land for themselves. Basically making them the rulers of the entire farking globe!

My family would probably be immensly rich today with the amount of wealth i woudl have gotten from that simple map.

So, what would you bring back, within the constraints of time travel, and the limitiations of the epoch, if you choose to become wealthy?

(ie, remember, can't bring a garmin back to 1800's cause there was no satalites for the garmin to work)


There is an actual map that this General had. It showed africa and eastern coast of south and north America as well as the northern Artic cap.

Maybe when i am not to lazy and will provide you with some sources. But basically he had a map that is as accurate as ours today

[Gloomrender]

A person named Jesus easily could have existed, and probably did. Doesn't prove Christianity or Creationism though.

Just proves there was a guy named Jesus who was either a normal person, a psycho, or a good philosopher who had good questions and people admired him and made up stories.

Or he didn't exist at all, But you sound pretty confident that he didn't exist lol which is kind of arrogant :D

There's absolutely no proof he existed.

[Kuruptix]

There is proof that the map was actually tested. And it went back to the date before they had any type of navigational knowledge to allow them to make the map.

I don't want to start spewing out dates until i actually find the sources

[Rahavin]

There's absolutely no proof he existed.

The bible.

[Gloomrender]

The bible.

..is proof of nothing.

[Kuruptix]

A Ming Dynasty Map (see below), created one hundred years before Columbus' voyage, shows details of North and South America and Chinese maps going back to 1000 AD were also very accurate, he detailed. The Chinese had huge fleets that sailed to Africa, he added.
A Roman map from the fifth century AD showed a southern continent that is similar to South America, and Egyptian artifacts were found in El Salvador in the early 1900's, he continued. However, most historians adopt a dogmatic view of past explorations and discard this type of evidence as either a hoax or a fraud, he commented.

http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=A7E848C4E5C46C67

http://www.marcopolovoyages.com/

[Sharuk]

..is proof of nothing.

Then you could say theres no proof we all werent just planted here by aliens 50 years ago and they gave us a fake history and we all believe that we have lived as a civilization for thousands of years

Ceaser didnt Exist, he's just a story, same with Columbus, he's just government propoganda, written records of him going to the america's means nothing, the Huns never existed, everyone just had really bad dreams back in the day

I could go on...

There is no proof of anything because i say so!!!!!


Some people's arguments on this forums just keep going downhill...


Anyway id go back to the days of the Roman Empire with 5000 men armed with M16's, Saws, Bazooka's, Tanks,Trucks, tools, Generators, "insert modern thing i could use to help take over the world here"

Not to mention a thousand modern scientists and the like to work on keep the guns shooting and electricity pumping, and at least 100 families to keep the manpower up

I would appear just a few miles from rome, set up a base camp and from there if Rome does not bow down and beg for mercy i will kill every person in that city

[Gloomrender]

Then you could say theres no proof we all werent just planted here by aliens 50 years ago and they gave us a fake history and we all believe that we have lived as a civilization for thousands of years

Ceaser didnt Exist, he's just a story, same with Columbus, he's just government propoganda, written records of him going to the america's means nothing, the Huns never existed, everyone just had really bad dreams back in the day

I could go on...

There is no proof of anything because i say so!!!!!


Some people's arguments on this forums just keep going downhill...


Lay off attacking that Straw-man, he's already not alive, It's not like you can kill him.

[GFH_Spike]

Whoever chose time travel to a period before modern medicine existed and also decided to remain there, enjoy your premature death.

[Caffy]

How do you develop the film? How do you power the batteries...you obviously fail.

Now your stuck in 0Ad with some peice of plastic junk.
PS, did you think your digital shit will last 2 thousand years. I didn't say once you traveled back in time you could come back to this time.

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&rlz=1G1GGLQ_ENUS306&um=1&sa=1&q=polaroid&btnG=Search+images&aq=f&oq=&aqi=&start=0

Also, why the hell would you want to be rich in ancient times? Poor people in the U.S. have it far and away better than the wealthiest of our ancient ancestors.

[Rahavin]

Anyway id go back to the days of the Roman Empire with 5000 men armed with M16's, Saws, Bazooka's, Tanks,Trucks, tools, Generators, "insert modern thing i could use to help take over the world here"

Not to mention a thousand modern scientists and the like to work on keep the guns shooting and electricity pumping, and at least 100 families to keep the manpower up

I would appear just a few miles from rome, set up a base camp and from there if Rome does not bow down and beg for mercy i will kill every person in that city

how is that one thing.

[Crysill]

how is that one thing.Glue.

[Mudgutts]

There is proof that the map was actually tested. And it went back to the date before they had any type of navigational knowledge to allow them to make the map.

I don't want to start spewing out dates until i actually find the sources

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piri_Reis_map

[Kuruptix]

^ ^ my man

[Apex Vertigo]

I was in a History class today and the topic of of Christianities beginning came up, I thought it was odd that the professor never made mention that Jesus might not have ever existed in the first place, kept talking about him as if he was historically proven to exist.

I suppose, going that far back, he was proven to exist as much as any other man was. I've never had a problem with him existing, it seems likely that he did exist or it would be hard to explain how the religion came to be in the first place.

[Crazy Hermit]

I am pretty sure jesus existed. Not that the things he said and preached were true, but if he didnt make christianity, then who did. He was a carpenter who was good at tricking simple minded people really well. Then he got crucified and "died for our sins." That just seems like a last ditch effort to make his religion last.

[Apex Vertigo]

I am pretty sure jesus existed. Not that the things he said and preached were true, but if he didnt make christianity, then who did. He was a carpenter who was good at tricking simple minded people really well. Then he got crucified and "died for our sins." That just seems like a last ditch effort to make his religion last.

I'm so sure that he himself was great at tricking simple minded people, a handful possibly, but the real ingenious tricksters lie in the ones that carried on a generation after his death and gave birth to the religion on a global level. Before it was contained as a small Jewish sect but St. Paul can be thanked for setting it on a path of global domination instead of letting it perish like hundreds others had before and after it.

[paade]

I would bring a simple satellite acurate map drawn on paper of the world, back to 1200 AD

Every king or queen would basically make me rich beyond imagination, due to the fact, the new world had not been discovered, neither had south america, it's gold treasures, nor the caribbean with it's wealth. Or the orient with it's spices and silk. One simple map could show that king or queen where to sail, DECADES ahead of any other country, to claim all that land for themselves. Basically making them the rulers of the entire farking globe!

My family would probably be immensly rich today with the amount of wealth i woudl have gotten from that simple map.

So, what would you bring back, within the constraints of time travel, and the limitiations of the epoch, if you choose to become wealthy?

(ie, remember, can't bring a garmin back to 1800's cause there was no satalites for the garmin to work)

i would bring a gun and rob all your monies, that you got from your fancy map thingie.

[Gloomrender]

I am pretty sure jesus existed. Not that the things he said and preached were true, but if he didnt make christianity, then who did.

300 years of writings by hundreds of different theologians and philosophers.

[88Chaz88]

Why take anything else with me, I'd have a fricking time machine!?!

[The Lost One]

Jesus death and unlikely Resurrection are the basis of the christian religion. It was the great defamation of the belief, that the son of god could die, that actually caused the continuation and strengthening of the religion. So don't try to disprove religious people, it only encourages them.

Also I'd bring back either the instructions for gun powder or a complete practical scientific encyclopedia. It'll probably get me killed but it's worth a shot.

[Gloomrender]

On topic...

I think the best you could do with this is to find some way to exploit either the 80's or the 90's; whereby you get rich, and get to live in the modern era...like starting the first search engine or something like that.

[ColonelTEE3]

A gun.

[88Chaz88]

I'd buy shares in Microsoft before they went public.

[Gloomrender]

I'd buy shares in Microsoft before they went public.

Yeah, something like that.

[Thanik]

I suppose, going that far back, he was proven to exist as much as any other man was. I've never had a problem with him existing, it seems likely that he did exist or it would be hard to explain how the religion came to be in the first place.

When you think about it, Lord Xenu must be a real extra terrestrial lifeform, otherwise it would be quite difficult to explain how Scientology came to be in the first place.

[88Chaz88]

When you think about it, Lord Xenu must be a real extra terrestrial lifeform, otherwise it would be quite difficult to explain how Scientology came to be in the first place.

Bad analogy, L. Ron Hubbard was most certainly real.

[Dark Lily]

So, what would you bring back, within the constraints of time travel, and the limitiations of the epoch, if you choose to become wealthy?


Can someone just clear up what exactly the 'constraints of time travel' are, other than it doesn't exist?

[Viluin]

Can someone just clear up what exactly the 'constraints of time travel' are, other than it doesn't exist?

Except it does exist.

[88Chaz88]

Except it does exist.

qft.

[Dark Lily]

Except it does exist.

That's an interesting concept. Other than traveling forward in time at a rate of about 60 seconds a minute, how does that work then?

[88Chaz88]

That's an interesting concept. Other than traveling forward in time at a rate of about 60 seconds a minute, how does that work then?

That rate can change, and measuring it in seconds is a human concept, really those seconds actually get slower or faster.

Time actually moves faster the closer you are to dense object. This is proven in GPS sattelites where we have to update the time every so often because time is moving fractionally slower for the sattelite.

[Dark Lily]

That rate can change, and measuring it in seconds is a human concept, really those seconds actually get slower or faster.

Time actually moves faster the closer you are to dense object. This is proven in GPS sattelites where we have to update the time every so often because time is moving fractionally slower for the sattelite.

OK I'll accept that as a whole that time is not at a static rate, but here on the earth's surface which is what the majority of us are bound to, for all intents and purposes it is at that rate.

Even so, although time can run at different rates, that still isn't time travel as described in the OP. Please explain this to me? Also again what the constraints?

[Mudgutts]

Can someone just clear up what exactly the 'constraints of time travel' are, other than it doesn't exist?

don't worry I'm pretty sure the father water you are able to milk from the unwitting will keep.

[88Chaz88]

OK I'll accept that as a whole that time is not at a static rate, but here on the earth's surface which is what the majority of us are bound to, for all intents and purposes it is at that rate.

Even so, although time can run at different rates, that still isn't time travel as described in the OP. Please explain this to me? Also again what the constraints?

Well if time is the 4th dimension (which I don't belive it is, I reckon time has a different set of dimensions) then all you'd need to do is fold it in the 5th dimension.

[Paralda]

I would go back to the middle ages and take a number of relatively simple scientific acheivements (flashlights, walkie talkies, guns, etc), as many scientific texts as I could, some cool looking clothes, and some building equipment. I would then present myself as a wizard, and gather all of the intellectuals I could find, teach them modern science, and create an extremely advanced society based on the principles of science and innovation. I'd see over this colony for about 15 years, making sure that it has a suitable structure so that it will not fall apart, and go back to the future. By the time I get there, the world will either be destroyed or extremely advanced.

[Lotharr]

I would go back to the middle ages and take a number of relatively simple scientific acheivements (flashlights, walkie talkies, guns, etc), as many scientific texts as I could, some cool looking clothes, and some building equipment. I would then present myself as a wizard, and gather all of the intellectuals I could find, teach them modern science, and create an extremely advanced society based on the principles of science and innovation. I'd see over this colony for about 15 years, making sure that it has a suitable structure so that it will not fall apart, and go back to the future. By the time I get there, the world will either be destroyed or extremely advanced.

I wish you luck. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witch-hunt#Middle_Ages)

[Erkki]

anything the nazis need to win

[88Chaz88]

anything the nazis need to win

I'm not sure you can take miracles.

[blindswordsman1]

uhh fyi jesus christ did exist, and was a person.. everything in the bible happened, but with great literary exaggeration.

as the jews put it, they believe jesus christ was a good man, but not the messiah.

i am of the same... all messiahs were good men, yet none of them were real.

religion was created by man, not god, therefore any claim one has to being in touch with god is simply their own brain comforting them.

but me, i would take the internet with me, and give us anohter 800 or so years of human progress and see how different the year 2009 was when we had globalized communication and information for eight centuries already.

fuck you and your constraints. this is time travel. if you can go back in time, i can take the goddamn internet with me.

[The Cougar]

Well, as far as we have found, nothing has been written about Jesus until long after his alleged death... which means that the probability that he didn't exist is pretty big.

[blindswordsman1]

Well, as far as we have found, nothing has been written about Jesus until long after his alleged death... which means that the probability that he didn't exist is pretty big.

Hm. well, i am not religious whatsoever, i always assumed that the bible was written when he was alive, for added credibility in the future.

clearly, as i should have suspected, that is not the case.

[Milo Hobgoblin]

antibiotics or machine guns.

[Silverhandorder]

I would go back to the middle ages and take a number of relatively simple scientific acheivements (flashlights, walkie talkies, guns, etc), as many scientific texts as I could, some cool looking clothes, and some building equipment. I would then present myself as a wizard, and gather all of the intellectuals I could find, teach them modern science, and create an extremely advanced society based on the principles of science and innovation. I'd see over this colony for about 15 years, making sure that it has a suitable structure so that it will not fall apart, and go back to the future. By the time I get there, the world will either be destroyed or extremely advanced.

Unfortunately you would find out that those men are probably smarter then you in many of those areas. Science and tech go together. You can't give them science and expect them to develop a highly advances society. A lot of equipment that they will need in order to produce future equipment has not be discovered or perfected. They will basically have your texts in hand and think well fuck now lets all die waiting for our tech to catch up enough for us to put it to the test.

Yes your simple tools is not enough.

[Apex Vertigo]

When you think about it, Lord Xenu must be a real extra terrestrial lifeform, otherwise it would be quite difficult to explain how Scientology came to be in the first place.

Didn't say certainly, said likely. There were tons of people preaching in Judaism around that time, rather one was named Jesus or not is rather irrelevant, what's important is what followed afterward, the people who started the religion.

All we have to judge rather someone existed or not from that long ago is what others wrote about them. Archeological evidence can barely prove the existence of Kings and other wealthy patrons as they are buried in lavish tombs, but a poor traveling prophet or any other the other philosophers and writers in which we use to piece together the past... it's all just writing that we corroborate with other sources of evidence. So he existed as much as the next 2000 year historical figure did, at least the idea of him and how he affected the world did.

It is true, however, that nothing was written about his life until a generation or so after his death. He was never known to write anything himself either, so it is a very big possibility that he was nothing more then a tale that a few men put together, but I think it more realistic that there was someone real at the core of this story. As I said, it started off as a small sect, one in which the members of didn't go out of the way to preach, not until St. Paul came into the picture did it set on it's global path.

uhh fyi jesus christ did exist, and was a person.. everything in the bible happened, but with great literary exaggeration.

as the jews put it, they believe jesus christ was a good man, but not the messiah.

i am of the same... all messiahs were good men, yet none of them were real.

religion was created by man, not god, therefore any claim one has to being in touch with god is simply their own brain comforting them.

but me, i would take the internet with me, and give us anohter 800 or so years of human progress and see how different the year 2009 was when we had globalized communication and information for eight centuries already.

fuck you and your constraints. this is time travel. if you can go back in time, i can take the goddamn internet with me.

How could you possibly know if anything in the bible actually happened? That is pure fantasy on your part. And how would you know these fake messiahs were "good men"? They sound more like crazy men to me.

As for taking the internet with you... good luck with that. Besides it being impossible to take "the internet" as if it were inside a box somewhere, you'd also have to set up entire networking systems and bring several hundred/thousands of computers to give to the people, the logistics of the notion of bringing the internet to a completely tech-free world is retarded.

[slayer333]

I would take a DeLorean back to 480BC and kill that damn hunchback bastard who betrayed the Spartans, then travel BACK TO THE FUTURE. I could write movies.

[jonyak]

I would bring back forumfall, and sell it.

[Rachsucht]

I'm not sure you can take miracles.

I don't think the plans to an A-bomb are considered a bona fide miracle.

[Thanik]

Bad analogy, L. Ron Hubbard was most certainly real.

Jesus wrote the bible!?

[Rachsucht]

Jesus wrote the bible!?

His buddies wrote the first few chapters of the new testament.

[Thanik]

His buddies wrote the first few chapters of the new testament.

Like Elron wrote about Xenu?

[Ultimo]

I would bring back enzyte. Those fuckers have to make a lot of money, their commercials are on the TV every commercial break on some channels.

Ancient people want bigger penises too.

[88Chaz88]

Like Elron wrote about Xenu?

So you're discrediting the existance of a deranged carpenter called Jesus (pronounced hay-soose and a common name at the time) by comparing him to an intergalactic being as old as time which will one day kill us all!

Ahem.

[Ultimo]

So you're discrediting the existance of a deranged carpenter called Jesus (pronounced hay-soose and a common name at the time) by comparing him to an intergalactic being as old as time which will one day kill us all!

Ahem.


The way you just pronounced it is the Mexican way. I would love to see literature proving they pronounced it that way back in the day. I'm not saying they didn't, but it would be surprising.

[Thanik]

So you're discrediting the existance of a deranged carpenter called Jesus (pronounced hay-soose and a common name at the time) by comparing him to an intergalactic being as old as time which will one day kill us all!

Ahem.

Degree does not invalidate analogy. Simply because you find the son of the great spirit in the sky less preposterous than the intergalactic overlord doesn't change anything.

Both are subjects, not authors, of books that are the basis for religions, said books being the only evidence we have of their existence.

You might as well say Jason Bourne is more 'real' than Aragorn son of Arathorn.

[88Chaz88]

The way you just pronounced it is the Mexican way. I would love to see literature proving they pronounced it that way back in the day. I'm not saying they didn't, but it would be surprising.

The Spanish way should be close to the original pronounciation as Spanish is the closest language to Latin around. Even though the name isn't Latin the Romans wouldn't have pronounced it that differently. The true pronounciation is probably different but not by that much, and the 'J' is most definitely pronounced as an 'H'.

[88Chaz88]

Degree does not invalidate analogy. Simply because you find the son of the great spirit in the sky less preposterous than the intergalactic overlord doesn't change anything.

I didn't say 'son of great spirit in the sky' did I, I said 'deranged carpenter'. Clearly one is more plausible than the other.

Now I'm not saying Jesus definitely existed, but around that time all the other minor religions talked of great beings and mythical creatures, Christianity talked of a carpenter from down the road. Even the whole new testement is somewhat lacking in visual artistry.

[Thanik]

I didn't say 'son of great spirit in the sky' did I, I said 'deranged carpenter'. Clearly one is more plausible than the other.

Now I'm not saying Jesus definitely existed, but around that time all the other minor religions talked of great beings and mythical creatures, Christianity talked of a carpenter from down the road. Even the whole new testement is somewhat lacking in visual artistry.

So if I write a book about a carpenter, the carpenter exists? But if I write a book about an intergalactic space lord, he doesn't exist?

[Jedicake]

I don't give a shit whether Jesus exists or not, I care compassionately about what the truth is.

and I'd easily rather accept any scientific evidence before I accept a simple book written in the bronze age or dark ages or whenever it was, (I fail at history :( )

Lol the OP topic has been totally hijacked, Sorry :(

I can't think of what to take :(

[Edocsil]

I'm not sure what some of you have been smoking, but there are documents that are non-religious that talk about a Jesus and the stir he caused. It has never been a question of whether he existed, just moreso of whether the Christianity aspect about him is true or not. Any arguments stating we can't fully prove his existence because writings are only hearsay are pointless. Most historical figures we say existed based on written accounts. Shoot, even statues and other physical evidence don't 'prove' the existence of that person, if you want to take it that far. Written accounts are all we have to go on for most figures (barring rulers, where the said statues and other physical evidence comes in) and have been acceptable for forever. As I said, it is merely the question of who this Jesus really was and whether he was divine, as stated in the Bible.

As for what I would bring back? Either the knowledge to get involved with Microsoft or some other similar corporation, a lottery ticket, or a sports almanac that I could use to place bets with.

[88Chaz88]

So if I write a book about a carpenter, the carpenter exists? But if I write a book about an intergalactic space lord, he doesn't exist?

No. At least read past the first sentence.

[Lotharr]

Considering no such person ever existed, this plan would fail.

Eh. What about our history books? There is more evidence of Jesus existing than some other historical events or persons, as far as I know. Now, what Jesus actually did and did not do is a very different matter.

What is your reason to not believe in his existence? What makes him different from any other historical figure?

[Thanik]

I'm not sure what some of you have been smoking, but there are documents that are non-religious that talk about a Jesus and the stir he caused.

Haha you are correct, I was just defending my analogy ;)

[Thanik]

No. At least read past the first sentence.

That's that then. The analogy is sound :cool:

[Crazy Hermit]

That's that then. The analogy is sound :cool:

Your opinion is not the same as his so you are wrong. The analogy is no longer sound.

[Thanik]

Your opinion is not the same as his so you are wrong. The analogy is no longer sound.

I can't even tell if you're being sarcastic :lmao:

[Apex Vertigo]

I'm not sure what some of you have been smoking, but there are documents that are non-religious that talk about a Jesus and the stir he caused. It has never been a question of whether he existed, just moreso of whether the Christianity aspect about him is true or not. Any arguments stating we can't fully prove his existence because writings are only hearsay are pointless. Most historical figures we say existed based on written accounts. Shoot, even statues and other physical evidence don't 'prove' the existence of that person, if you want to take it that far. Written accounts are all we have to go on for most figures (barring rulers, where the said statues and other physical evidence comes in) and have been acceptable for forever. As I said, it is merely the question of who this Jesus really was and whether he was divine, as stated in the Bible.

As for what I would bring back? Either the knowledge to get involved with Microsoft or some other similar corporation, a lottery ticket, or a sports almanac that I could use to place bets with.

The question as to rather he was divine or not is not an argument as it is fairly obvious that he was not a man of magical properties, this forum doesn't need to debate such obvious retardation even if it has been swallowed by the weak minded masses. But other then that, you pretty much said exactly what I said: All we have of most of the people in ancient history is text, what someone wrote about them, Jesus is just about as real as most of the Caesars, Augustus, Kings, and Senators of the time.

[Jangang]

A book, custom made for the trip. Inside it would have all the information I need to make guns, gun powder, and other weapons of my choosing. Along w/ maps, and detailed information on the peoples of the world at the time I go back to and throughout my lifetime. It would also have information on medicines, how to make them, what plants and animals and shit are needed to make them. Information on modern irrigation techniques, construction techniques. As much information to make my empire BADASS as I could fit into a single volume...

I'd use said information to conquer the globe and start my empire.

On second thought... A Duffle Bag. Full of books. All custom made for the mission. The above being only the tip of the information iceberg. It would also contain kevlar body armor, and a least one modern gun and some ammo.

But if i literally only get one item, than a book as described.

[Lotharr]

The internet?

[Rossco]

The internet?

The internet isn't actually 'real', unless, by 'Internet', you mean every server rack in the world - but that's more than one thing.

[ejnomad07]

Too much work the lot of you. I would just invest before dot com bubble this time around bigtime players like Google and Yahoo and roll with it until before the dot.com bust and cash out.

[Aacevedo]

why so much trouble , the megaepicjackpot lottery numbers. After that , swimming pool 5 blondes 4 brunnetes 3 redheads and let your imagination fly.

[Crazy Hermit]

I would go back in time and attempt to save forumfall from darkfall.

[Wickfield]

I might bring a note back to Abraham Lincoln, informing him of the nature and time of his death. Though I doubt that'd be worth much...

I might bring blueprints and drafts for the modern telephone back to the year 1850, giving me a good leg up over Bell, allowing me to develop a phone more advanced than he could imagine + develop a corporation more monopoly prone than he could create.

Basically, more money, faster.

And I'd be remembered forever.

[Gloomrender]

Eh. What about our history books? There is more evidence of Jesus existing than some other historical events or persons, as far as I know. What is your reason to not believe in his existence? What makes him different from any other historical figure?

No, actually, there is not. It's widely assumed there is, as in your case and with other people in this thread; but there really is almost no historical proof that this person existed. Historians don't mention anyone like him. The evidence is not there in reality. Jesus is not a historical figure as much as he is a mythical figure. He is a conjuration of the Christian myth, like any other deity figure in other religions.

[Eyrothath]

All you need in my opinion..

http://www.videosift.com/video/Boomstick-speech-from-Army-of-Darkness

[Dark Lily]

No, actually, there is not. It's widely assumed there is, as in your case and with other people in this thread; but there really is almost no historical proof that this person existed. Historians don't mention anyone like him. The evidence is not there in reality. Jesus is not a historical figure as much as he is a mythical figure. He is a conjuration of the Christian myth, like any other deity figure in other religions.

I always presumed he'd be in some kind of roman documentation as they seemed good at paperwork and diaries. It's a bit iffy if he's not?

[Gloomrender]

I always presumed he'd be in some kind of roman documentation as they seemed good at paperwork and diaries. It's a bit iffy if he's not?

You're right. And he isn't.

[Lotharr]

No, actually, there is not. It's widely assumed there is, as in your case and with other people in this thread; but there really is almost no historical proof that this person existed. Historians don't mention anyone like him. The evidence is not there in reality. Jesus is not a historical figure as much as he is a mythical figure. He is a conjuration of the Christian myth, like any other deity figure in other religions.

That's interesting. What's your source? I found something like this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quest_for_the_historical_Jesus).

[Edocsil]

No, actually, there is not. It's widely assumed there is, as in your case and with other people in this thread; but there really is almost no historical proof that this person existed. Historians don't mention anyone like him. The evidence is not there in reality. Jesus is not a historical figure as much as he is a mythical figure. He is a conjuration of the Christian myth, like any other deity figure in other religions.

Actually, there are.

Articles like this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_Jesus) and this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus) point to sources outside the Bible (if you just want to throw it out completely). The whole 'Jesus did not exist' is described as a dead theory and is in the extreme minority of historians and biblical scholars.

"Some writers, such as Earl Doherty, G. A. Wells and Robert M. Price question whether Jesus ever existed, and whether attempts to use the Gospels to reconstruct his life give the Gospels too much credit. This position, put forward works such as the 2005 documentary The God Who Wasn't There, is very rare among Historians and Bible scholars."

"Nevertheless, the historicity of Jesus is accepted by almost all Biblical scholars and classical historians. The New Testament scholar, James Dunn describes the mythical Jesus theory as a 'thoroughly dead thesis'."

If you are looking for more evidence than that, you won't get anything on anyone short of rulers and people in high positions. Jesus was a common man that, while creating a following during his life, didn't actually make it big until later on after his death. Besides, a name or something would be pointless since Jesus was a relatively common name back then. A description of the man, instead, would be far more accurate when searching for references. And, as those wiki pages show, there are plenty enough to safely make the declaration that he existed.

[jonyak]

jesus may have been a real person, but the story that surrounds him, the whole death resurrection thing, was around long before he was born.

[Silverhandorder]

Jesus is Dionysus. The Cult of Dionysus was befriended by the Christians by making Jesus were similar to their god. It is even debatable whether he was a real person.

[inox]

Jesus is Dionysus. The Cult of Dionysus was befriended by the Christians by making Jesus were similar to their god. It is even debatable whether he was a real person.

Do you have a source for this? I thought Dionysos was the god of sex and parties, which doesn't fit my impression of Christianity.

[Gloomrender]

That's interesting. What's your source? I found something like this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quest_for_the_historical_Jesus).

I knew the shit sources would be incoming eventually. If you look at the list of people on this page, most of them don't claim Jesus existed. That page is proof if anything that some historians question/doubt his existence/the reliability of scholars. More on this later.


Actually, there are.

Articles like this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_Jesus) and this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus) point to sources outside the Bible (if you just want to throw it out completely). The whole 'Jesus did not exist' is described as a dead theory and is in the extreme minority of historians and biblical scholars.

"Some writers, such as Earl Doherty, G. A. Wells and Robert M. Price question whether Jesus ever existed, and whether attempts to use the Gospels to reconstruct his life give the Gospels too much credit. This position, put forward works such as the 2005 documentary The God Who Wasn't There, is very rare among Historians and Bible scholars."

...as those wiki pages show, there are plenty enough to safely make the declaration that he existed.

It's obvious you're cherrypicking from this article...I will respond to these passages and provide a wiki quote of my own after.

Yes, It's rare that anyone has directly argued based on historicity that Jesus didn't exist. That doesn't mean that all the historians think he does exist, however. There is a lack of evidence which makes arguing objectively either way very difficult if not impossible.


"Nevertheless, the historicity of Jesus is accepted by almost all Biblical scholars and classical historians. The New Testament scholar, James Dunn describes the mythical Jesus theory as a 'thoroughly dead thesis'."

This paragraph is one of those instances of wikipedia being hard to trust. This is obviously someone's religious opinion, and not an objective statement. The last sentence is by a theologian. If that alone wasn't suspicious enough, you need only look at the sources for this statement. Three books by the following three authors:

"Mark Allan Poweell is Robert and Phyllis Leathermen Professor of New Testament Studies at Trinity Lutheran Seminary in Columbus, Ohio".

"Walter P Weaver is Emeritus Professor of Religion at FLorida Southern College and former Chari of Humanities Division and Department of Religion and Philosophy and Pendergrass Professor of Religion. He is co-editor of the Faith and Scholarship Colloquies series published by Trinitiy Press".

"Robert E Van Voorst is professor of New Testament at Western Theological Seminary, Holland, Michigan. His other books include "Building Your New Testament Greek Vocabulary".

These three very religious people do not represent "almost all classical historians" as your cherry pick states...




I have two wiki paragraphs of my own to share. They are the very first paragraphs from both Lotharr's Article and Edoscil's article...

"Scholarly Methods

Historians and Bible scholars analyze the Canonical Gospels, Talmud, Gospel according to the Hebrews, Gnostic Gospels, Josephus, and other early documents attempting find the Historical Jesus. They try to separate reliable historical data from that which is not."

"History of Research

Attempts to use historical rather than religious methods to construct a verifiable biography of Jesus began in the 18th century with Hermann Samuel Reimarus, up to William Wrede and Albert Schweitzer in the 19th century. Reimarus pioneered "the search for the historical Jesus", applying the Rationalism of the Enlightenment Era to claims about Jesus. Although Schweitzer was among the greatest contributors to this quest, he also ended it by noting how each scholar's version of Jesus seemed little more than an idealized autobiography of the scholar himself."


As you can clearly read, all of these sources are of religious origins. They are not objective sources of historical information. And according to the philosophical authority of the historicity article "...each scholar's version of Jesus seems little more than an idealized autobiography of the scholar himself".

As I originally stated, there is no credible historical evidence that Jesus of Nazareth actually existed.

[sweet_tooth]

Then you could say theres no proof we all werent just planted here by aliens 50 years ago and they gave us a fake history and we all believe that we have lived as a civilization for thousands of years

Ceaser didnt Exist, he's just a story, same with Columbus, he's just government propoganda, written records of him going to the america's means nothing, the Huns never existed, everyone just had really bad dreams back in the day

I could go on...

There is no proof of anything because i say so!!!!!


Some people's arguments on this forums just keep going downhill...


Anyway id go back to the days of the Roman Empire with 5000 men armed with M16's, Saws, Bazooka's, Tanks,Trucks, tools, Generators, "insert modern thing i could use to help take over the world here"

Not to mention a thousand modern scientists and the like to work on keep the guns shooting and electricity pumping, and at least 100 families to keep the manpower up

I would appear just a few miles from rome, set up a base camp and from there if Rome does not bow down and beg for mercy i will kill every person in that city


Bible was written by a bunch of different men over a period of a few hundred years. So aliens planting us here is based on just as much fact as religions.

[sweet_tooth]

There is not concrete proof Jesus existed, but there is a lot to suggest he did. He is mentioned in various historical texts other than the Bible. My personal belief is that he was just a dude that wanted to do good things for the world and deeply cared about humanity. Kinda like gandhi or mother teresa. His raising dead people and miracles and such is easily explained by the fact that he wasn't written about for over 100yrs after he died. It's like people saying Elvis or Tupac didn't die, very influential people get exaggereated over time.

[-Jotun]

Considering no such person ever existed, this plan would fail.

wtf? then the bible is wrong?

you fail

[-Jotun]

There is not concrete proof Jesus existed, but there is a lot to suggest he did. He is mentioned in various historical texts other than the Bible. My personal belief is that he was just a dude that wanted to do good things for the world and deeply cared about humanity. Kinda like gandhi or mother teresa. His raising dead people and miracles and such is easily explained by the fact that he wasn't written about for over 100yrs after he died. It's like people saying Elvis or Tupac didn't die, very influential people get exaggereated over time.

Show me proof. All of the people who believe this are ignorant, such as yourself. There is no evidence whatsoever that the christian figure currently represented as Jesus Christ has ever existed. Period. It was all just a figment of paul's mind (according to the magic bible)

There are plenty of mexican people named Jesus though, maybe that's what you're referring to?

[Sharuk]

Well i learned today that unless you have seen someone from the past that they must not of existed....

That no one ever written, or talked about from before our lifetime can be real because *insert moronic statement here*

Just when i thought that humanity couldnt get stupider....

[-Jotun]

Well i learned today that unless you have seen someone from the past that they must not of existed....

That no one ever written, or talked about from before our lifetime can be real because *insert moronic statement here*

Just when i thought that humanity couldnt get stupider....

yeah i agree, evidence helps quite a bit

[PirateGlen]

Well i learned today that unless you have seen someone from the past that they must not of existed....

That no one ever written, or talked about from before our lifetime can be real because *insert moronic statement here*

Just when i thought that humanity couldnt get stupider....

This is quite an exaggeration. Just because alot of people write about something and believe it to exist, does not make it so. It's not an illegitimate point to take note that there may be a significant amount of bias in those who would be researching a person who has supernatural attributes.

[Sharuk]

This is quite an exaggeration. Just because alot of people write about something and believe it to exist, does not make it so. It's not an illegitimate point to take note that there may be a significant amount of bias in those who would be researching a person who has supernatural attributes.

Your still not going to get far with an argument that is pretty much i dont like jesus so he must not be real even though billions of people on earth accept him, and that there have been countless books written on him dating even before his birth...

Its the same as saying Mohammad was not real or Abraham, forget the supernatural attributes as in this argument they are not really a concern

And useing the same logic used in the argument you can say that anyone didnt exist before we had pictures, the argument being used is just silly, of course he was real, the Son of God part is up to you to believe in, the Jews dont, but they know he existed, because they kinda killed him...

And it may be significant to notice that your argument also has plenty of bias throughout it

[Gloomrender]

Your still not going to get far with an argument that is pretty much i dont like jesus so he must not be real even though billions of people on earth accept him, and that there have been countless books written on him dating even before his birth...


lol. That's not the "argument" at all, that's a total straw man you're wailing on. The argument is that the only sources documenting him are religious/mythical ones, and those obviously can't be trusted. There is no credible historical evidence on which to form a basis for believing such a person existed in reality. There should be, and there is not. Therefore believing this person is real is a baseless belief, like everything else in religion. The man is a myth.

[Dizzz]

I would take back my innocence to the time of my birth.

Then I would be able to live my life over and over and over (assuming I survive to the point of obtaining a time machine and the ability to take something back with me).

I doubt I would live the same exact life over and over, even if I am oblivious since I am taking back the absence of knowledge with me. It would be like a crazy long-winded Groundhog Day.

Do I win prize???

[Dark Lily]

I would take back my innocence to the time of my birth.

Then I would be able to live my life over and over and over (assuming I survive to the point of obtaining a time machine and the ability to take something back with me).

I doubt I would live the same exact life over and over, even if I am oblivious since I am taking back the absence of knowledge with me. It would be like a crazy long-winded Groundhog Day.

Do I win prize???

If you live your life differently each time, then isn't there a strong chance you wouldn't follow the path that leads you to the time machine in the future? Also if you don't have the knowledge of what's happening, you might just live the same shit life again and again, as you wouldn't know what to change next time round.

[Dredgon]

I'd take zombie Stalin back to the stone ages.

[Dizzz]

If you live your life differently each time, then isn't there a strong chance you wouldn't follow the path that leads you to the time machine in the future? Also if you don't have the knowledge of what's happening, you might just live the same shit life again and again, as you wouldn't know what to change next time round.

The Dalai Lama lives a different life each time but, I mean, it's the Dalai Lama. Chillin like a villain. Inevitably someone finds em and throws em in a shrine somewhere in the mountains.

My point is, I'd like indefinite reincarnation with a little bit of variety in the way it repeats itself.

And yeah sure some things may be the same but even the smallest butterfly effect could change things drastically. You're right though the trick would be to always end up at the same spot even if I am oblivious along the way.

[Carnagel]

And useing the same logic used in the argument you can say that anyone didnt exist before we had pictures

In 2000 years we would still be in the same position of not being able to prove the existence of someone living today, even with photo's / video evidence, because of how easily that is to falsify / doctor

Possibly DNA storage will be the only way to definitively prove someone actually existed...at least until human DNA itself can be falsified

In regards to the OP - I would take back the AIDS virus, and spread it among the middle east

[Fugean]

Then you could say theres no proof we all werent just planted here by aliens 50 years ago and they gave us a fake history and we all believe that we have lived as a civilization for thousands of years

Ceaser didnt Exist, he's just a story, same with Columbus, he's just government propoganda, written records of him going to the america's means nothing, the Huns never existed, everyone just had really bad dreams back in the day

I could go on...

There is no proof of anything because i say so!!!!!


Some people's arguments on this forums just keep going downhill...


Anyway id go back to the days of the Roman Empire with 5000 men armed with M16's, Saws, Bazooka's, Tanks,Trucks, tools, Generators, "insert modern thing i could use to help take over the world here"

Not to mention a thousand modern scientists and the like to work on keep the guns shooting and electricity pumping, and at least 100 families to keep the manpower up

I would appear just a few miles from rome, set up a base camp and from there if Rome does not bow down and beg for mercy i will kill every person in that city

all of you dont exist, your all just AI on the net... also, i would bring back a history book.

[StainlessSteelRat]

lol. That's not the "argument" at all, that's a total straw man you're wailing on. The argument is that the only sources documenting him are religious/mythical ones, and those obviously can't be trusted. There is no credible historical evidence on which to form a basis for believing such a person existed in reality. There should be, and there is not. Therefore believing this person is real is a baseless belief, like everything else in religion. The man is a myth.

I thought that his, the person, existence had been demonstrated historically. Outside of all the hocus pocus that is.

[Gloomrender]

I thought that his, the person, existence had been demonstrated historically. Outside of all the hocus pocus that is.

It really hasn't. If you look at my posts back in this thread, I show why.

[gloryhound]

Hmm... 1980's, an iPod, Mac computer and iPhone. I'd then hunt down Steve Jobs.