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Drift0ner
08-26-2009, 15:49
I've recently discussed Bhuddism, karma, and the concept of Yin and Yang with some friends - and it made a lot of sense. There is always an opposite of everything, for non-existance, there is existance.

If there is an empty void, there is a universe full of matter. When there is up, there is down etc etc.

So based on that principal, would that explain how things exist without a creator?

But then the question becomes, what created this law? And if it even existed?:bang:

Sqarak
08-26-2009, 15:54
So based on that principal, would that explain how things exist without a creator?


Our universe has always contained the building blocks to form stuff. Maybe before our universe existed there was nothing or maybe something different, but it is of no consequence as we live in this universe and no the universe is not fine tuned to us, we are fine tuned to the universe as the universe is older than us.

Skyborn
08-26-2009, 15:55
Your ramblings don't explain how the opposite of non-existence came to exist.

"Because non-existence exists, existence must exist?" Really? Are you retarded?

Sqarak
08-26-2009, 15:57
Your ramblings don't explain how the opposite of non-existence came to exist.

"Because non-existence exists, existence must exist?" Really? Are you retarded?
Non-existence as a concept exists, but something that is non-existent doesn't exist as it is non-existent.

The OP doesn't understand the difference between a concept and a factual or spiritual opposite.

Gloomrender
08-26-2009, 20:38
As someone with a half-assed, second hand, rudimentary understanding of physics, it makes me cringe when religious people conclude that the universe "came from nothing", or "everything is on accident". There are physical processes underlying the existence of the universe that explain everything from It's creation, everything that happens in it, and on to It's plausible eventual non-existence. There's nothing "out of nothing" or "accidental" about the universe. This is basically just ignorance of Science.

Aacevedo
08-26-2009, 20:49
I've recently discussed Bhuddism, karma, and the concept of Yin and Yang with some friends - and it made a lot of sense. There is always an opposite of everything, for non-existance, there is existance.

If there is an empty void, there is a universe full of matter. When there is up, there is down etc etc.

So based on that principal, would that explain how things exist without a creator?

But then the question becomes, what created this law? And if it even existed?:bang:


Our universe has always contained the building blocks to form stuff. Maybe before our universe existed there was nothing or maybe something different, but it is of no consequence as we live in this universe and no the universe is not fine tuned to us, we are fine tuned to the universe as the universe is older than us.


Your ramblings don't explain how the opposite of non-existence came to exist.

"Because non-existence exists, existence must exist?" Really? Are you retarded?


Non-existence as a concept exists, but something that is non-existent doesn't exist as it is non-existent.

The OP doesn't understand the difference between a concept and a factual or spiritual opposite.


As someone with a half-assed, second hand, rudimentary understanding of physics, it makes me cringe when religious people conclude that the universe "came from nothing", or "everything is on accident". There are physical processes underlying the existence of the universe that explain everything from It's creation, everything that happens in it, and on to It's plausible eventual non-existence. There's nothing "out of nothing" or "accidental" about the universe. This is basically just ignorance of Science.

Stop
smoking
that
shit
and
give
me
some.

Madrandomize
08-26-2009, 20:51
Our theology teacher in school aid that we shouldn't believe a stupid scientist that says that the universe was probably created after a big bang,because it is too stupid to believe that a big bang will create a universe...

The irony is too strong in the above statement.

nate4449
08-27-2009, 00:00
As someone with a half-assed, second hand, rudimentary understanding of physics, it makes me cringe when religious people conclude that the universe "came from nothing", or "everything is on accident". There are physical processes underlying the existence of the universe that explain everything from It's creation, everything that happens in it, and on to It's plausible eventual non-existence. There's nothing "out of nothing" or "accidental" about the universe.

What a wonderful combination of ignorance and blind faith in a man-made social-intellectual institution collectively known as "science".

Becauz liek, empirical dataz conducterated inz a phisical univurse can toateleh disproove a metaphysical being, brah.

Grisu
08-27-2009, 00:02
drop acid and ull see something appear from nothing.

Strangia
08-27-2009, 00:07
What a wonderful combination of ignorance and blind faith in a man-made social-intellectual institution collectively known as "science".

Becauz liek, empirical dataz conducterated inz a phisical univurse can toateleh disproove a metaphysical being, brah.

lern2epistemology

kingpin
08-27-2009, 00:10
What a wonderful combination of ignorance and blind faith in a man-made social-intellectual institution collectively known as "science".

Becauz liek, empirical dataz conducterated inz a phisical univurse can toateleh disproove a metaphysical being, brah.

lol

mega troll

nate4449
08-27-2009, 00:18
lol

mega troll

SHHH you! I'm going for 20+ pages of seething anit-religious hate!


The true forumfall will live again, I tells you!!11

Strangia
08-27-2009, 00:18
SHHH you! I'm going for 20+ pages of seething anit-religious hate!


The true forumfall will live again, I tells you!!11

I tried to feed the troll! I tried!

DAMN YOU FORUMFALL! WHY!!!!

Gloomrender
08-27-2009, 01:07
What a wonderful combination of ignorance and blind faith in a man-made social-intellectual institution collectively known as "science".

Becauz liek, empirical dataz conducterated inz a phisical univurse can toateleh disproove a metaphysical being, brah.

As noted, an obvious lame troll attempt...I wasn't even talking about the existence or non-existence of "metaphysical beings"...

Caffy
08-27-2009, 05:52
We need some new policies around here.

1. If you want to talk about religion then you have to bump an old thread.
2. Ban anyone who bumps old religious threads.

Villageninja
08-27-2009, 06:48
Of course something can appear from nothing. Weapons of mass destruction do it all the time, and then nothing appears where that something was.

Or maybe I just like saying weapons of mass destruction.

weapons of mass destruction

generic_user
08-27-2009, 07:17
Of course something can appear from nothing. Weapons of mass destruction do it all the time, and then nothing appears where that something was.

Or maybe I just like saying weapons of mass destruction.

weapons of mass destruction

Nucular>all

Villageninja
08-27-2009, 07:19
Nukler>all

Bush would be proud.

PirateGlen
08-27-2009, 08:20
We need some new policies around here.

1. If you want to talk about religion then you have to bump an old thread.
2. Ban anyone who bumps old religious threads.

Or just don't read the threads you don't like...

Carnagel
08-27-2009, 09:38
So based on that principal, would that explain how things exist without a creator?

A principle is one of several things: (a) a descriptive comprehensive and fundamental law, doctrine, or assumption; (b) a normative rule or code of conduct, and (c) a law or fact of nature underlying the working of an artificial device

"There is always an opposite of everything, for non-existance, there is existance. "

That is not a principle, it's a load of fucking shit

StaticBlack
08-27-2009, 09:44
When there is up, there is down

Up and down is relative. I can launch myself up into outer space and I would eventually land down on a planet without ever changing direction.

Sqarak
08-27-2009, 09:51
seething anit-religious hate!

Seething anti-religious hate? Here? Don't think so. We pretty much established that religion is a failed social experiment. Hating it for that would be a dirty shame. It would be like hating midgets for being portable.

dinkfall
08-27-2009, 10:22
There are no empty voids, not even vacuums are empty.
If I understand correctly a vacuum sucks a particle and it's anti-particle from somewhere(from the future?) which then proceed to attract each other and collide and annihilate into energy.

Skyborn
08-27-2009, 15:37
I am curious to hear what Forumfall considers the "First Cause"

Wiki Reference (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Cause)

Caffy
08-27-2009, 16:03
Or just don't read the threads you don't like...

Or just ban people who annoy me.

Jedicake
08-27-2009, 16:28
We don't know the answer, therefore goddidit

gtfo demon!!!

lolololol

The Cougar
08-27-2009, 16:41
We don't know what created the universe. But according to quantum physics and the current science, scientists believe certain particles do "come from nothing" all the time, or rather, appear as they come from nothing. Hawking radiation for example, where a virtual particle randomly appears (this happens all the time and everywhere) at the edge of a black hole's gravity, "creates" mass from "nothing". The anti-matter part gets sucked into the black hole, while the matter-part escapes. Matter is therefore effectively "created", though the black hole loses some of its own matter as a consequence of sucking in a anti-matter particle, so it's not like it's an energy surplus.

The Cougar
08-27-2009, 16:55
Since this is bound to evolve into a religious debate, I'll offer my thoughts on this subject as well. I don't see why it (the OP's question) is used as an argument to support religious folks though. Just because we don't know, doesn't mean God or anything similar exists. Your faith in God must be very limited if you have to pick on our limited knowledge in metaphysics to bolt your belief in God. It's not like your world-view is being threatened, as if someone tries to wave around this stuff to disprove the idea of God, he's just as silly.

For me, I believe that gods and such are basically infinitely improbable. I can't say God doesn't exist, but if you believe so, I wont think you're stupid because of it. You do and believe whatever the fuck you want as long as it doesn't affect me.

Apex Vertigo
08-27-2009, 20:16
What really blows my mind is the the fact that one of 2 impossibilities must have occured, each of which can not be imagined by the human mind.

1. Time and Space started from nothing at all.
2. Time and Space have always been, no beginning what so ever.

You can exchange Time/Space with God or Divine Being if you'd like, even if that entity did exist it still wouldn't justify or prove any religion in any way.

dogmeat
08-27-2009, 20:28
Think of the universe as something and nothing on a scale:

something |-------0-------| nothing

With the 0 passing from one side to the next over and over forever.

This is what our universe is and everything that exists follows this one rule.

Try it for yourself, every single thing you can look at, imagine, etc.. follows this rule. This is also good for haxing the real world ;) if you understand it completely that is.

Aacevedo
08-27-2009, 20:41
Think of the universe as something and nothing on a scale:

something |-------0-------| nothing

With the 0 passing from one side to the next over and over forever.

This is what our universe is and everything that exists follows this one rule.

Try it for yourself, every single thing you can look at, imagine, etc.. follows this rule. This is also good for haxing the real world ;) if you understand it completely that is.

So you found the Grand unified theory, why the fuck are you posting here instead of receiving the Nobel Prize?

Reckun
08-27-2009, 20:44
We don't know what created the universe. But according to quantum physics and the current science, scientists believe certain particles do "come from nothing" all the time, or rather, appear as they come from nothing. Hawking radiation for example, where a virtual particle randomly appears (this happens all the time and everywhere) at the edge of a black hole's gravity, "creates" mass from "nothing". The anti-matter part gets sucked into the black hole, while the matter-part escapes. Matter is therefore effectively "created", though the black hole loses some of its own matter as a consequence of sucking in a anti-matter particle, so it's not like it's an energy surplus.


This may sound retarded but does that mean you can destroy a black hole using created anti-matter?

dogmeat
08-27-2009, 20:44
So you found the Grand unified theory, why the fuck are you posting here instead of receiving the Nobel Prize?

haha!

its just an observation, had while smoking trees ;)

Aacevedo
08-27-2009, 20:52
haha!

its just an observation, had while smoking trees ;)

Ohh I see :D

generic_user
08-27-2009, 21:14
ONLY GOD CAN COME FROM NOTHING a

Wickfield
08-27-2009, 21:22
NEW GAME!


1) You are now playing the game.
2) You have to play the game.
3) If you think about the game, you lose.

Sound like fun?

generic_user
08-27-2009, 21:23
It sounds like fun, how do I un-lose?

Aacevedo
08-27-2009, 21:26
NEW GAME!
1) You are now playing the game.
2) You have to play the game.
3) If you think about the game, you lose.

Sound like fun?
this is a loop of losing!
Stop it!

dogmeat
08-27-2009, 21:38
this is a loop of losing!
Stop it!

Sounds like most games these says. Everytime you think about them, you're pretty much loosing something.

Sqarak
08-28-2009, 09:45
I sometimes wonder if the expansion of our universe is actually the initiation of a new big bang event. That the creation of universes is one big unending (to our intellectual capabilities at least) chain reaction.

generic_user
08-28-2009, 10:14
I sometimes wonder if the expansion of our universe is actually the initiation of a new big bang event. That the creation of universes is one big unending (to our intellectual capabilities at least) chain reaction.

WOW! Why aren't you a physicist??

Sqarak
08-28-2009, 10:18
WOW! Why aren't you a physicist??

Because I suck at mathematics.

The Cougar
08-28-2009, 10:38
This may sound retarded but does that mean you can destroy a black hole using created anti-matter?
I read somewhere that it's estimated that black holes under 10 tons of mass disappear in less than a second because of Hawking radiation. The numbers might be off, but the principle is the same.

dinkfall
08-28-2009, 10:51
This may sound retarded but does that mean you can destroy a black hole using created anti-matter?

You can destroy any matter with its equivalent anti-matter.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annihilation

Dark Lily
08-28-2009, 11:25
You can destroy any matter with its equivalent anti-matter.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annihilation

Does that exist, or is it just the stuff of star trek?

dinkfall
08-28-2009, 11:27
Does that exist, or is it just the stuff of star trek?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positron
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antihydrogen

What do you mean?