So while the news is busy jerking to Iran and Michael Jackson.

[Vessol]

...the House passes HR 2454. Without even reading it, added hundreds of pages over night.
A bill that will change the American standard of life as we know it...and the news doesn't even mention it.

Touche, Obama and Democrats, Touche.

[Spankytwo]

...the House passes HR 2454. Without even reading it, added hundreds of pages over night.
A bill that will change the American standard of life as we know it...and the news doesn't even mention it.

Whats that, the one that punishes rednecks for beating the shit out of fairies?


Yeah, my life is ruined because of this bill.

[Vessol]

whats that, the one that punishes rednecks for beating the shit out of fairies?


Yeah, my life is ruined because of this bill.

</3

[DoveAlexa]

THIS IS A DISTRACTION!!
//passes evil bill

stars dieing ftw?

[Honorius]

Care to tell those of us too lazy to look it up what it is exactly?

[Vessol]

Care to tell those of us too lazy to look it up what it is exactly?

Carbon Taxes.

Taxes on everything to do with carbon dioxide. Taxes on every mile you drive. Your heating. Food. Everything.

[Spankytwo]

Carbon Taxes.

Taxes on everything to do with carbon dioxide. Taxes on every mile you drive. Your heating. Food. Everything.

ah, i thought it was the hate crimes bill.


carry on.

[Honorius]

Carbon Taxes.

Taxes on everything to do with carbon dioxide. Taxes on every mile you drive. Your heating. Food. Everything.

Oh that's that Bill, that's a shame.

[DoveAlexa]

yep, life has gotten more expensive as the gov't pisses away more of your money than ever before.
Here though, no carbon tax as far as I know. got shut down last election.

[[O]_Fawkes]

I love watching the news in the morning.

Seriously, I love it.

Yesterday, all I heard was "Michael Jackson is dead!" and across the bottom ticker of the screen was all this Michael Jackson/Farrah Fawcet stuff, and then at the very end, maybe half of one of three of Michael Jackson's ticker messages was: "40 killed in Baghdad market bombing".

It's great that people can just write off the death of 40 U.S. soldiers as usual, but then we make a big deal about a child molester.

[Vessol]

Looks like HR2454 isn't the name of the bill anymore, they have been changing it daily..dunno what it is now, but it's impossible to find it to read at all.

[ApocaRUFF]

Link?

[Vessol]

Link?

I'd link you a story, but no mainstream media is discussing it.

[Strangia]

Carbon Taxes.

Taxes on everything to do with carbon dioxide. Taxes on every mile you drive. Your heating. Food. Everything.

If you get too cold, I'll tax the heat!

[Vessol]

If you get too cold, I'll tax the heat!

Anything that has a "carbon footprint" will be taxed.

[Spankytwo]

yep, life has gotten more expensive as the gov't pisses away more of your money than ever before.
Here though, no carbon tax as far as I know. got shut down last election.

Ah, Alberta, the most redneck part of all of Canada.


You know, Stockwell Day is from Alberta, and we all know how bright he is.

[DoveAlexa]

time to start putting up windmills in your backyards and growing your own veggies. (as a front for growing pot to sell)

[The Cougar]

I wonder if it ever occurred to the Norwegian government, the UN, EU, the US government etc. that I don't really want to pay for the carbon dioxide I emit?

Oh right, that doesn't matter. My bad.

[[O]_Fawkes]

time to start putting up windmills in your backyards and growing your own veggies. (as a front for growing pot to sell)

You're not really a girl, are you?

[DoveAlexa]

Lol, get on vent tomorrow sometime and I'll show you I am.

[The Dark Zealot]

Lol, get on vent tomorrow sometime and I'll show you I am.

Wow, you just got asked out by a girl!
On the internet

[Wonderboy2402]

Hey, one of my first google searches turned up a link to a Limbaugh transcript where he blasts it.

Hmm.

http://dequalss.com/2009/06/26/limbaugh-addresses-hr-2454-the-cap-tax-travesty/

So that why its your talking point...

But yea, the media really is being dominated by MJ's death.

[AmonDominus]

Sheeple go baaaaaaaa..

[Jedicake]

...We're fucked....

[Ungraylessness]

If you get too cold, I'll tax the heat!

What if I want to take a walk?

[Vessol]

What if I want to take a walk?

Those shoes you wear when you take a walk had to have been made in a factory. Which emits carbon dioxide. Up up up the price goes!

[Caffy]

What if I want to take a walk?

We're going to tax your breath. You evil planet killing polluter you!

[Qikdraw]

The American Clean Energy and Security Act

Look it up, and don't listen to Glen Beck or Rush Limbaugh about it either, they're fucking crazy.

[Revolver777]

/sigh

[Strangia]

What if I want to take a walk?

I'll tax your feet!

[Spineless_DoO]

This was to be expected. The federal gov taking on more power they dont legaly have. What do you expect? All Obama ever promised to do is ignore the constitution and spread the wealth of the working folks. So far he is doing a great job. Next in line is his imigration reform. Im sure it will bring more unqualified, unsafe, criminal labor into the work place at the cost to every established working individual already holding on to there jobs for dear life.


FYI I went and took my vehicles off the road last month. I work in NYC and take transit. Round trip is about 2 hours a day. I decided to walk to the train station or bike it. Long behold I purchase an electric bike kit. A simple upgrade for under 400$ that would take me 18-20 miles on a charge and only costs 4 cents to a day. I find out fast that there is a large number of people doing the same thing and now my state and that of NY are already working on plans to create a registration system and a fee for certain bike paths that enter key areas. You just cant win. If Im not getting it from the likes of Obama Im getting it from the lower ranks in his march.

[PhamTrinli]

Whats that, the one that punishes rednecks for beating the shit out of fairies?


Yeah, my life is ruined because of this bill.

ignorant
.

[PhamTrinli]

...the House passes HR 2454. Without even reading it, added hundreds of pages over night.
A bill that will change the American standard of life as we know it...and the news doesn't even mention it.

Touche, Obama and Democrats, Touche.

I'm glad SOMEONE else actually cares when they do this. They pull this shit all the time and this is actually one of the less consequential bills they've passed virtually overnight without even reading it or saying anything to the press or public in general regarding it.

[Ziegler]

FYI I went and took my vehicles off the road last month. I work in NYC and take transit. Round trip is about 2 hours a day. I decided to walk to the train station or bike it. Long behold I purchase an electric bike kit. A simple upgrade for under 400$ that would take me 18-20 miles on a charge and only costs 4 cents to a day. I find out fast that there is a large number of people doing the same thing and now my state and that of NY are already working on plans to create a registration system and a fee for certain bike paths that enter key areas. You just cant win. If Im not getting it from the likes of Obama Im getting it from the lower ranks in his march.

Just wait....now that you are doing that....it could be construed as evading your carbon taxes. :ohno:

Also...we will get a tax credit for reducing our carbon footprint to 7x3x6 foot deep?

[deadgamer]

Funny that this made the news in Denmark..

[Scully]

You pay so little tax, what's the big deal assholes.

[Blackmoore]

Carbon Taxes.

Taxes on everything to do with carbon dioxide. Taxes on every mile you drive. Your heating. Food. Everything.

yeah i see its evil to try and save the enviroment...

[Forgin]

yeah i see its evil to try and save the enviroment...

Taxing people on their carbon based products isn't gonna "save the enviroment".

[SirStalker]

yeah i see its evil to try and save the enviroment...

It's not about the environment you dumbass..... :bang:x5 1/2

[nick larking]

Do you guys need to pay taxes when you leave a fart?

[StainlessSteelRat]

The American Clean Energy and Security Act

Look it up, and don't listen to Glen Beck or Rush Limbaugh about it either, they're fucking crazy.

Are we supposed to read this then for info:

http://blogs.consumerreports.org/home/2009/04/american-clean-energy-and-security-act-of-2009-energy-efficiency-schoolhouse-rock.html

There's nothing there. It's a bunch of talking points.

It's fucking kool-aid. It is humourous to read the comments of the kool-aid drinkers though.

Are you Keppel?

[Skarskrag]

Here is the text of it, I believe. I don't know if this was the passed version or some earlier one.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:H.R.2454:

[StainlessSteelRat]

Here is the text of it, I believe. I don't know if this was the passed version or some earlier one.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:H.R.2454:

Pretty sure it's not passed yet; just a test vote.

Need a full text version so it's searchable. (Not telling you to find one, just mentioning that it would make it easier to locate the proverbial 'fuck you's' that are buried in there. :D)

[Kinsari]

_Fawkes;3547723']

It's great that people can just write off the death of 40 U.S. soldiers as usual, but then we make a big deal about a child molester.

They were Iraqi civilians, not US soldiers. The bombings are a result of US soldiers leaving the cities completely within the next few days. It's the left-over insurgents/terrorists or whatever you want to call them trying to make a power grab and send a message to the Iraq security forces who are going to be left to fend for themselves now.

[Shyhalu]

Taxing people on their carbon based products isn't gonna "save the enviroment".

Higher Taxes = Higher Prices
Higher Prices = Less Sales
Less Sales = Less Profit
Less Profit = Innovate so less carbon emition.

I do believe thats the general idea behind it. The biggest part of that is that companies don't want to compete or innovate, instead they will just pass the tax over while hoping their competitors do the same, which they probably will do for quite some time.

Its a double edged sword for us. We get a healthier planet and more efficiency, but we have to pay for it for awhile.

Its kinda like wall street. Cap their bonuses and they will scramble to repay the government loan and make profits.

I think the biggest problem is that the higher ups don't want to compete with eachother and thus the government uses that opportunity to step in and mess things up.

Seriously, we should be using solar/electric/water vehicles by now.

[Skarskrag]

...
Seriously, we should be using solar/electric/water vehicles by now.

Yeah, that part always bugged me. I don't know if it is some grand conspiracy between the oil and car companies or maybe humans just aren't as smart as we think we are, but we are, basically, still using the same core technology for cars in 2009 that Henry Ford used back in 1908.

[Ziegler]

You pay so little tax, what's the big deal assholes.

ahhh...poor little pussy socialist....what's wrong...you dont like having the government take care of you in exchange for most of your money...

cry me a fucking glacier to add to the expanding ice cap.

[kingpin]

...the House passes HR 2454. Without even reading it, added hundreds of pages over night.
A bill that will change the American standard of life as we know it...and the news doesn't even mention it.

Touche, Obama and Democrats, Touche.

you're one of the richest people on earth, stop whining.

damn americans living in penthouses with tall blond beautiful women, ferrari's, pool's and private tennis court whining about standart of living...it's already like 4 times above average so stfu and pay.

ungrateful pieces of shit.

[alfaroverall]

Yeah, that part always bugged me. I don't know if it is some grand conspiracy between the oil and car companies or maybe humans just aren't as smart as we think we are, but we are, basically, still using the same core technology for cars in 2009 that Henry Ford used back in 1908.
You have no idea how much more efficient the internal combustion engine has gotten in the last century...

[Scully]

ahhh...poor little pussy socialist....what's wrong...you dont like having the government take care of you in exchange for most of your money...

cry me a fucking glacier to add to the expanding ice cap.

I'm not the one crying about taxes here.

[Ziegler]

Higher Taxes = Higher Prices
Higher Prices = Less Sales
Less Sales = Less Profit
Less Profit = Move to China or across the boarder to Mexico and avoid higher taxes.

Fixt

Scully. It's our country, we can whine about taxes all we want...we kinda been doing it since before 1776. And these taxes are not going to fix the problem.

[Scully]

Higher Taxes = Higher Prices
Higher Prices = Less Sales
Less Sales = Less Profit
Less Profit = Innovate so less carbon emition.


Oh yes exactly. That's why in Norway we don't purchase anything! GG...

[Empty Pockets]

you're one of the richest people on earth, stop whining.

damn americans living in penthouses with tall blond beautiful women, ferrari's, pool's and private tennis court whining about standart of living...it's already like 4 times above average so stfu and pay.

ungrateful pieces of shit.

isn't capitalism with low taxes great?

[alfaroverall]

Oh yes exactly. That's why in Norway we don't purchase anything! GG...
lrn2indirectproportionality noob.

[Kuri]

you're one of the richest people on earth, stop whining.

damn americans living in penthouses(Barly affording a 100k house) with tall blond beautiful women(Dropped out of highschool), ferrari's(10 yearold junker), pool's(Above ground pool costing $500) and private tennis court(Cleaned out our Garage, chalk lines) whining about standart of living...it's already like 4 times above average so stfu and pay.(Sorry half of Europe is still in ruins, Asia is a clusterfuck)

ungrateful pieces of shit.(Come and enjoy our lifestyle, thats if you can get a job)

O'rly?

[Qikdraw]

Are we supposed to read this then for info:

http://blogs.consumerreports.org/home/2009/04/american-clean-energy-and-security-act-of-2009-energy-efficiency-schoolhouse-rock.html

There's nothing there. It's a bunch of talking points.

Then find the full text of the bill then and quite yer fucking whining. Media is fucking pathetic in this country. Fox News (http://www.ceasespin.org/ceasespin_blog/ceasespin_blogger_files/fox_news_gets_okay_to_misinform_public.h tml) won a court case where they won the right to lie to people. That any news company actually argued this is pathetic.

It's fucking kool-aid. It is humourous to read the comments of the kool-aid drinkers though.


I agree. I find it quite humourous to read the kool-aid drinkers comments. (both sides)

[PirateGlen]

Looks like HR2454 isn't the name of the bill anymore, they have been changing it daily..dunno what it is now, but it's impossible to find it to read at all.

Here's the full text.
http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h2454/text

It was first link on a google search. Are you brain dead? :confused:

Library of congress has more details:
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d111:H.R.2454:

[Sharuk]

Has the senate passed it yet?

I bet they will,Here come 2x energy costs

[Sharuk]

The American Clean Energy and Security Act

Look it up, and don't listen to Glen Beck or Rush Limbaugh about it either, they're fucking crazy.

Glenn Beck is probaly the only News guy that tells anything close to the truth imo

He predicted this mess ya know

[Carnagel]

They were Iraqi civilians, not US soldiers. The bombings are a result of US soldiers leaving the cities completely within the next few days. It's the left-over insurgents/terrorists or whatever you want to call them trying to make a power grab and send a message to the Iraq security forces who are going to be left to fend for themselves now.

All US military will pull out, but the private security corporations (mercenaries) will be staying, funded by Iraqi Oil (well it's US oil now, but you get my drift)

All that will happen now is the mercs will no longer have to restrict themselves to operating under the watchful eye of the media / MP's, and will be able to hunt, turture and kill anyone suspected of being an insurgent / terrorist, they will be able to preemptively strike with little need for supporting evidence, fully mandated by the Iraqi Government. If the insurgents thought they had it bad against the US military, those fuckers haven't seen anything yet

[Sharuk]

Higher Taxes = Higher Prices
Higher Prices = Less Sales
Less Sales = Less Profit
Less Profit = Innovate so less carbon emition.

I do believe thats the general idea behind it. The biggest part of that is that companies don't want to compete or innovate, instead they will just pass the tax over while hoping their competitors do the same, which they probably will do for quite some time.

Its a double edged sword for us. We get a healthier planet and more efficiency, but we have to pay for it for awhile.

Its kinda like wall street. Cap their bonuses and they will scramble to repay the government loan and make profits.

I think the biggest problem is that the higher ups don't want to compete with eachother and thus the government uses that opportunity to step in and mess things up.

Seriously, we should be using solar/electric/water vehicles by now.

Wont innovate??

GM had Hydrogen Cars in the works before the Gov canceled them, its not that companies wont innovate, its that the Gov is an overbearing Taskmaster

[Sharuk]

you're one of the richest people on earth, stop whining.

damn americans living in penthouses with tall blond beautiful women, ferrari's, pool's and private tennis court whining about standart of living...it's already like 4 times above average so stfu and pay.

ungrateful pieces of shit.

Is this a joke?

[alfaroverall]

Wont innovate??

GM had Hydrogen Cars in the works before the Gov canceled them, its not that companies wont innovate, its that the Gov is an overbearing Taskmaster
Hydrogen powered vehicles are an absolutely abysmal idea when you run the numbers.

[PirateGlen]

Hydrogen powered vehicles are an absolutely abysmal idea when you run the numbers.

Damn. I thought it was cool they they were making solar rafts that would be put out to sea and harvest hydrogen from them.

[Aleucard]

Problem with hydrogen fuel cells is less of the getting of the fuel (water = 2 hydrogen atoms + 1 oxygen atom, over 70% of the planet's covered in it) and more of the potential complications. Ever heard of the Hindenburg? Imagine that, but with a smaller blast radius and can happen damn near anywhere when proper force is applied (like a bad car crash, for example). That's why people think hydrogen fuel cells are sketchy.

And technically, the very first cars were electric. Gasoline cars came about from the potential profit (on the corporation side) and the increased range and power of the engines (on the consumer side). While the corporation half helped push these sorts of engines into use, the consumer half was needed as well. Same can be said with the current car situation; people have a hard time with getting off their fat asses and actually doing shit about it.

And for the record, I remember hearing a while back about an engine of sorts that some guy developed that used electricity to slightly change the arrangement of a water molecule to make it easier to burn. Think on that; an engine that can run on water alone. Why aren't we giving this guy a fucking Nobel Prize for most kickass invention this side of the wheel, then using it for everything from blowtorches to jet engines?

[alfaroverall]

Problem with hydrogen fuel cells is less of the getting of the fuel (water = 2 hydrogen atoms + 1 oxygen atom, over 70% of the planet's covered in it) and more of the potential complications. Ever heard of the Hindenburg? Imagine that, but with a smaller blast radius and can happen damn near anywhere when proper force is applied (like a bad car crash, for example). That's why people think hydrogen fuel cells are sketchy.
Actually, no. That is not the issue with hydrogen fuel cells. You apparently have no actual idea about how these work whatsoever, and thus somehow think that the hydrogen in a fuel cell is actually in a state where it is prone to direct combustion. It isn't. The actual biggest problem with hydrogen fuel cells is that their net output from a given input (e.g., a renewable energy source like the Sun or wind, though the input could really be anything) is far lower than the alternative. Seriously, hydrogen-powered cars, from energy input to output, are 23% efficient (note that this is not counting the power plant itself) while electric vehicles are 69% efficient. (http://www.minyanville.com/articles/energy-F-tm-hmc-fuel-electricity/index/a/22968/p/1) This is a freaking pathetic level of efficiency by anyone's standards.

And technically, the very first cars were electric. Gasoline cars came about from the potential profit (on the corporation side) and the increased range and power of the engines (on the consumer side). While the corporation half helped push these sorts of engines into use, the consumer half was needed as well. Same can be said with the current car situation; people have a hard time with getting off their fat asses and actually doing shit about it.
Those first cars maxed out at like 15 mph. Maybe 25.
And for the record, I remember hearing a while back about an engine of sorts that some guy developed that used electricity to slightly change the arrangement of a water molecule to make it easier to burn. Think on that; an engine that can run on water alone. Why aren't we giving this guy a fucking Nobel Prize for most kickass invention this side of the wheel, then using it for everything from blowtorches to jet engines?
Because thermodynamics tells us that his claim is the biggest wad of bullshit of all time. Newsflash: water is an extremely stable molecule, thermodynamically. There is no reaction using just it, nor it and any of the constituents of air, which is exothermic. None. Zero. (There MIGHT be some with an extremely large negative entropy change, but this would then only be spontaneous at like 50 K or something, which is not feasible anyway). What this guy actually did was put energy in and get energy out--and the output is, by the First and Second Laws of Thermodynamics, less than the input, if the product is the same as the reactant (which in the case of "burning" water, it is).

[PirateGlen]

Problem with hydrogen fuel cells is less of the getting of the fuel (water = 2 hydrogen atoms + 1 oxygen atom, over 70% of the planet's covered in it) and more of the potential complications. Ever heard of the Hindenburg? Imagine that, but with a smaller blast radius and can happen damn near anywhere when proper force is applied (like a bad car crash, for example). That's why people think hydrogen fuel cells are sketchy.

Hydrogen is safer than gasoline. No one on the hindenburg died because of hydrogen.
http://www.hydrogenhighway.ca.gov/facts/einsafety.pdf

And for the record, I remember hearing a while back about an engine of sorts that some guy developed that used electricity to slightly change the arrangement of a water molecule to make it easier to burn. Think on that; an engine that can run on water alone. Why aren't we giving this guy a fucking Nobel Prize for most kickass invention this side of the wheel, then using it for everything from blowtorches to jet engines?

Salt water burns when hit with a frequency of radio waves:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiKa4nOkHLw

[PirateGlen]

Because thermodynamics tells us that his claim is the biggest wad of bullshit of all time. Newsflash: water is an extremely stable molecule, thermodynamically. There is no reaction using just it, nor it and any of the constituents of air, which is exothermic. None. Zero. What this guy actually did was put energy in and get energy out--and the output is, by the First and Second Laws of Thermodynamics, less than the input.

So the energy cost of making salt water burnable outweighs the net energy? :(

[alfaroverall]

So the energy cost of making salt water burnable outweighs the net energy? :(
Yes. If that weren't the case, water would burn rather readily, to eventually reach a "ground state" of sorts (that is, a state which is thermodynamically stable).

[Tzacharu]

Glenn Beck is probaly the only News guy that tells anything close to the truth imo

He predicted this mess ya know

Sadly, I've only heard about this bill from Glen Beck and a small mention about it from a local news station. They made some good points about how ridiculous this bill is, not to mention its hovering around the 2,600 page mark, which congressman were expected to read basically overnight.

I don't understand what government is doing. We're in a financial crisis, people can barely afford homes, keep their jobs, feed their families, yet they introduce more taxes. My state is even increasing our sales tax and adding a few others.

America needs to wake up from this celebrity death nonsense. Yea, its awful and a shock, but we've got a country that's on the brink of disaster and we're crying over the deaths of a former popstar and sex symbol.

[Apex Vertigo]

If this gets passed I think I'll wait to see exactly what is taxed before claiming doomsday on this one.

[Ludo]

It's ironic they would tax something they can't usually counter with stately funds. Most of the Scandinavian countries have this tax already in work and the so called fund that this tax is building up does not seem to have a purpose because there is nothing concrete they think they can use the money on.

I don't know if this is still the situation but it has been like that for quite some time as far as I know.