Guy owned, crowd lols

[Justinian]

http://deadspin.com/5272567/spanish-matador-messes-with-bull-gets-horns

The bull responded: "I did it for the lulz"

[popsaregood230]

The bull shook him like he was his bitch.

[Badem]

7 to 10 seconds i fucking LOLed

he was being shook like a fucking rag doll

MWAHAHAHAHAHA

[Helgeran]

Too bad bulls never win.

[kylan]

Something is seriously wrong with humanity. They basically torture this animal and then kill it.

Yes I eat meat but if I were to kill something to eat it I would try to do so as fast as possible. I'd like to take a bullfighters pet, be it a dog or what not and stab it a few times while some of his neighbors cheered.

I hope that bullfighter dies tbh.

[Poacher]

Too bad bulls never win.

Looks like this one did. Too bad it got slaughtered afterwards for being an epic fighter. :rolleyes:

[Helgeran]

Something is seriously wrong with humanity. They basically torture this animal and then kill it.

Yes I eat meat but if I were to kill something to eat it I would try to do so as fast as possible. I'd like to take a bullfighters pet, be it a dog or what not and stab it a few times while some of his neighbors cheered.

I hope that bullfighter dies tbh.
Cattle can't predict the future and stuff, bullfighting bulls hardly suffer more than cattle bred for meat. It's like murdering children.

[kylan]

Cattle can't predict the future and stuff, bullfighting bulls hardly suffer more than cattle bred for meat. It's like murdering children.

When someone is stabbing you and you're bleeding I don't believe the animal thinks the guy wants to fucking pet him. Why did that bull gore that bullfighter? Cause he was scared for his life.

Stabbing the bull is for peoples enjoyment. When its time to put a pet down. Lets say the bullfighter and the crowds let just put them in a ring and stab them a few times. they're dying anyway right? no, that would be inhumane.

[Aacevedo]

I have high hopes on genetic engineering, maybe some day the matador instead of fighting bulls, will be fighting predaliens. FUCKING AWESOME

[kylan]

I have high hopes on genetic engineering, maybe some day the matador instead of fighting bulls, will be fighting predaliens. FUCKING AWESOME

That would be awesome. I think matador's will be in high demand then. Unless we also wound the predaliens before fighting.

[Helgeran]

When someone is stabbing you and you're bleeding I don't believe the animal thinks the guy wants to fucking pet him. Why did that bull gore that bullfighter? Cause he was scared for his life.

Stabbing the bull is for peoples enjoyment. When its time to put a pet down. Lets say the bullfighter and the crowds let just put them in a ring and stab them a few times. they're dying anyway right? no, that would be inhumane.
Of course fucking of course it's suffering but it's no difference from animals being slaughtered for meat, we don't even need meat it's just luxuary just as the pleasure of viewing violence.

Animals are our slaves, if you want to oppose that slavery you better oppose all of it or find a good reason why this particular kind is worse. You think this bull suffers worse than meat animals? Go visit a slaughterhouse and you'll know otherwise hearing pigs scream as they are flayed alive if the boltgun failed to brain them.

[kylan]

Of course fucking of course it's suffering but it's no difference from animals being slaughtered for meat, we don't even need meat it's just luxuary just as the pleasure of viewing violence.

Animals are our slaves, if you want to oppose that slavery you better oppose all of it or find a good reason why this particular kind is worse. You think this bull suffers worse than meat animals? Go visit a slaughterhouse and you'll know otherwise hearing pigs scream as they are flayed alive if the boltgun failed to brain them.

I'm not disagreeing with the fact slaughterhouses are cruel. I wish we could make them as least painful as possible.

However, stabbing and killing a creature for ENTERTAINMENT or killing it for FOOD are two different things.

[Helgeran]

I'm not disagreeing with the fact slaughterhouses are cruel. I wish we could make them as least painful as possible.

However, stabbing and killing a creature for ENTERTAINMENT or killing it for FOOD are two different things.
How? It's not like we need meat to survive. We eat meat for pleasure and we watch bull fights for pleasure, just because one is mainstream does it might it more right?

[Villa]

ISRAEL got owned.
Yes!

[Badem]

ISRAEL got owned.
Yes!

You think so?

be afraid
VERY AFRAID

Jewz-in-da-hood (http://awkwardfamilyphotos.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/96231.jpg)

[kylan]

How? It's not like we need meat to survive. We eat meat for pleasure and we watch bull fights for pleasure, just because one is mainstream does it might it more right?

I suppose there is no arguing with you. Killing something for food and having people pay to watch and animal get killed are the same thing. You win.

edit: however, if i ever find find you or your pet. i'll stab it a few times and send you the video tape. it'll be cool though because someone paid me to do it. you know. animals are slaves so its ok.

[Helgeran]

I suppose there is no arguing with you. Killing something for food and having people pay to watch and animal get killed are the same thing. You win.

edit: however, if i ever find find you or your pet. i'll stab it a few times and send you the video tape. it'll be cool though because someone paid me to do it. you know. animals are slaves so its ok.
Let's put it like this: I'd be just as pissed if you ate it.

[PrimalSign]

Looks like this one did. Too bad it got slaughtered afterwards for being an epic fighter. :rolleyes:

If we eat his meat we inherit his power.

[Aacevedo]

If we eat his meat we inherit his power.

take his soul IMO

[Razli]

If animals didnt want to be killed they would have evolved and enslaved us. Its their own fault.

[DocGonzo]

sorry...in a slaughterhouse, or a farm...the animal is killed quickly...either by a sliced throat, or in a beef slaughterhouse, a single blow form a pneumatic spike kills it instantly

far different from that bull in the ring...spikes in it's back for quite the while before being killed

so, for those who profess being vegetarians and the rest...spare me the bullshit, one cannot compare the prolonged torture and murder of an animal to simple slaughter for meat

[kylan]

Let's put it like this: I'd be just as pissed if you ate it.

oh i'm not going to eat it. i'm just going to kill it for the fun of it and then let you watch because its my slave.

[Aacevedo]

oh i'm not going to eat it. i'm just going to kill it for the fun of it and then let you watch because its my slave.

could you send me the video too? Nothing beats good entertaiment.

[Justinian]

Of course fucking of course it's suffering but it's no difference from animals being slaughtered for meat, we don't even need meat it's just luxuary just as the pleasure of viewing violence.

Animals are our slaves, if you want to oppose that slavery you better oppose all of it or find a good reason why this particular kind is worse. You think this bull suffers worse than meat animals? Go visit a slaughterhouse and you'll know otherwise hearing pigs scream as they are flayed alive if the boltgun failed to brain them.

gigantic who cares. I like eating meat. I could watch an animal be slaughtered and then still eat it. I DO NOT CARE.

Animals are commodities from nature just like stone or plants. Why doesn't anyone give a shit about the evil humans enslaving the trees and copper that rightfully belongs to nature?

[Jezrith]

http://deadspin.com/5272567/spanish-matador-messes-with-bull-gets-horns

The bull responded: "I did it for the lulz"

The minute the bull isn't drugged and stabbed a few times before it enters the ring, I *MIGHT* root for the matador, until then HOOK 'EM UP, BULL!

[Justinian]

The minute the bull isn't drugged and stabbed a few times before it enters the ring, I *MIGHT* root for the matador, until then HOOK 'EM UP, BULL!

fuckin' a right.

[Silverhandorder]

sorry...in a slaughterhouse, or a farm...the animal is killed quickly...either by a sliced throat, or in a beef slaughterhouse, a single blow form a pneumatic spike kills it instantly

far different from that bull in the ring...spikes in it's back for quite the while before being killed

so, for those who profess being vegetarians and the rest...spare me the bullshit, one cannot compare the prolonged torture and murder of an animal to simple slaughter for meat

I could care less for vegetarians or bull fights. However I think Hell was trying to say that there is enough torture in slaughterhouses. Notice he pointed out when the procedure goes wrong. The drill misses the target and pig lives. Back on the farm I remember people trying to kill a pig with a huge spike and couldn't penetrate it's skull. Terrible affair.

Moral of the story is even when we try to make it painless, we can not avoid it all the time. We eat billions of animals so there is a lot more suffering in food industry then bull fights.

But I agree who cares.

[kylan]

I could care less for vegetarians or bull fights. However I think Hell was trying to say that there is enough torture in slaughterhouses. Notice he pointed out when the procedure goes wrong. The drill misses the target and pig lives. Back on the farm I remember people trying to kill a pig with a huge spike and couldn't penetrate it's skull. Terrible affair.

Moral of the story is even when we try to make it painless, we can not avoid it all the time. We eat billions of animals so there is a lot more suffering in food industry then bull fights.

But I agree who cares.

subtle difference. when a mistake happens in slaughterhouse its just that. yes the animal is hurt more than it should be and thats wrong.

people getting emotional enjoyment out of torturing an animal is wrong. its fucking sick. its the same kids who killed animals growing up and it sometimes leads to killing people.

[Silverhandorder]

subtle difference. when a mistake happens in slaughterhouse its just that. yes the animal is hurt more than it should be and thats wrong.

people getting emotional enjoyment out of torturing an animal is wrong. its fucking sick. its the same kids who killed animals growing up and it sometimes leads to killing people.

Several thousand people per animal is a lot less suffering then how many animals a single human being consumes.

Don't like it? Don't watch it and less animals will be killed that way. However when you enjoy your food think about all those times an animal dies suffering in a slaughterhouse. Want to reduce the number of animals suffering in slaughterhouses? Stop eating them. Noooooo that is not compatible because you enjoy eating animals.

[Villa]

This is why slicing an animal's windpipe while reciting a religious verse is best.

As for those who are offended by the consumption of meat - do you think if animals had evolved faster than humans, they'd be sparing us? I don't think so.
Eat before you get eaten.

[Aacevedo]

subtle difference. when a mistake happens in slaughterhouse its just that. yes the animal is hurt more than it should be and thats wrong.

people getting emotional enjoyment out of torturing an animal is wrong. its fucking sick. its the same kids who killed animals growing up and it sometimes leads to killing people.

So all our ancesters who hunt or bought animals for their farms to eat them were serial killers.

[Villa]

I blame those black obelisks from 2001 A Space Odyssey.

[kylan]

So all our ancesters who hunt or bought animals for their farms to eat them were serial killers.

What the fuck is wrong with you people? Do you have any reading comprehension?

Those ancestors didn't kill it for the emotional gratification for watching something be killed. They ate it.

Bullfighting = People paying to watch something get stabbed and die for entertainment

Slaughterhouse = People paying to eat the food.

If we start selling tickets to the slaughterhouse then maybe you fucktards would have a point. Can you tell me where the nearest box office that sells those are?

[Justinian]

this thread is about humans getting impaled by animals, not vice versa. try to keep UP.

[kylan]

this thread is about humans getting impaled by animals, not vice versa. try to keep UP.

I'm all for it. Notice how those faggots had to run in and save the brave fighter instead of letting the bull finish him off.

[Silverhandorder]

What the fuck is wrong with you people? Do you have any reading comprehension?

Those ancestors didn't kill it for the emotional gratification for watching something be killed. They ate it.

Bullfighting = People paying to watch something get stabbed and die for entertainment

Slaughterhouse = People paying to eat the food.

If we start selling tickets to the slaughterhouse then maybe you fucktards would have a point. Can you tell me where the nearest box office that sells those are?

You fucking noob don't enjoy eating animals? Your enjoyment is their suffering. Fuck GTFO of my forumfall.

[kylan]

You fucking noob don't enjoy eating animals? Your enjoyment is their suffering. Fuck GTFO of my forumfall.

I'll assume you're just trolling because you're ignorant.

The cow that I'm eating didn't have crowds of people cheer as he was slowly tortured and then killed. Can't say the same for bulls.

[holychicken]

Something is seriously wrong with humanity. They basically torture this animal and then kill it.

Yes I eat meat but if I were to kill something to eat it I would try to do so as fast as possible. I'd like to take a bullfighters pet, be it a dog or what not and stab it a few times while some of his neighbors cheered.

I hope that bullfighter dies tbh.
If you are eating mass produced, corn-fed, American Beef, I guarantee you that the life of the cow you ate was far more miserable than the life of that bull.

[kylan]

If you are eating mass produced, corn-fed, American Beef, I guarantee you that the life of the cow you ate was far more miserable than the life of that bull.

Once again. Not denying our system has flaws. It doesn't justify bullfighting though.

[Butcher]

hope he'l have fun pissing thorugh a tube for the rest of his days

[DeadlyHit]

7 to 10 seconds i fucking LOLed

he was being shook like a fucking rag doll

MWAHAHAHAHAHA

:lmao:

[Silverhandorder]

Once again. Not denying our system has flaws. It doesn't justify bullfighting though.

Then become a vegetarian and oppose bull fighting.

[Helgeran]

gigantic who cares. I like eating meat. I could watch an animal be slaughtered and then still eat it. I DO NOT CARE.

Animals are commodities from nature just like stone or plants. Why doesn't anyone give a shit about the evil humans enslaving the trees and copper that rightfully belongs to nature?
You seem to be missing the point. Do you give a shit about bullfighting bulls?

[Helgeran]

What the fuck is wrong with you people? Do you have any reading comprehension?

Those ancestors didn't kill it for the emotional gratification for watching something be killed. They ate it.

Bullfighting = People paying to watch something get stabbed and die for entertainment

Slaughterhouse = People paying to eat the food.

If we start selling tickets to the slaughterhouse then maybe you fucktards would have a point. Can you tell me where the nearest box office that sells those are?
And now our society is so advanced we don't have to kill animals to eat them, since we are so good at producing crops we could easily get perfect nutrition from grown food but people like eating meat more than they don't like animals dying for it.

[Helgeran]

Once again. Not denying our system has flaws. It doesn't justify bullfighting though.
Your reasoning is probably that it's "a waste" but honestly your consumtion of meat is leading to as much wasted meat as those who buy tickets to bull fighting. Seriously, if you have a moral standpoint you got to follow through with it or you're a fucking hypocrite, the problem here is you haven't thought out the full implication of your standpoint.

[Blixa]

oh i'm not going to eat it. i'm just going to kill it for the fun of it and then let you watch because its my slave.

Point is: It's not "your slave", but the owner's slave. Killing the pet is destroying the other's slave. Btw, I'd be more pissed if you ate it than if you just killed it for fun.

[Helgeran]

oh i'm not going to eat it. i'm just going to kill it for the fun of it and then let you watch because its my slave.
Again missing the point. Obviously it's horrible to murder pets. Why? People care about them, they suffer. Who's pet was that bull? Yours?

[kylan]

Again missing the point. Obviously it's horrible to murder pets. Why? People care about them, they suffer. Who's pet was that bull? Yours?

So it's ok to kill things as long as they don't have an owner?

I guess thats the difference between you and I. I have the capacity to care about something/someone I've never met. You do not.

edit: The protein you get from a real mammal is nothing like the ones we can make in the lab. I do think animals are here for us to eat. Not to torture.

[Silverhandorder]

So it's ok to kill things as long as they don't have an owner?

I guess thats the difference between you and I. I have the capacity to care about something/someone I've never met. You do not.

edit: The protein you get from a real mammal is nothing like the ones we can make in the lab. I do think animals are here for us to eat. Not to torture.

You are a fucking idiot that can't realize that the basis on which you are against bullfighting is not compatible with your own activities. You can't be against brining suffering to animals because it bring you enjoyment and at the same support your meat eating habits.

Most normal people don't give a shit and therefore can eat animals for pleasure. You are one social freak that does not like harming animals as long as it has nothing to do with your own pleasures.

[Helgeran]

edit: The protein you get from a real mammal is nothing like the ones we can make in the lab. I do think animals are here for us to eat. Not to torture.
I'm not talking about lab made proteins, how do you think vegetarians survive? Beans and certain other plants make animo acids we can't syntheize ourselves. Silverhandorder summed my point up perfectly: you think bullfighting is wrong and meat eating is right since you have meat eating as a pleasure.

[kylan]

Last time kiddos.

Emotional entertainment and satisfaction from the killing of animal does not equal wanting to kill that animal quickly and eat it.

Its just that simple.

[Jezrith]

I'm not talking about lab made proteins, how do you think vegetarians survive? Beans and certain other plants make animo acids we can't syntheize ourselves. Silverhandorder summed my point up perfectly: you think bullfighting is wrong and meat eating is right since you have meat eating as a pleasure.

Killing something for food and killing something for sport are orders of magnitude apart. I don't personally care for sport hunting and like seeing the hunters that do so get fucked up. Kind of like bull fighting...

[PrimalSign]

Killing something for food and killing something for sport are orders of magnitude apart. I don't personally care for sport hunting and like seeing the hunters that do so get fucked up. Kind of like bull fighting...

His point was that meat isn't necessary as food anymore, hence the killing is done more for pleasure than any sense of survival.

[Paganini]

The douche deserved it

[kylan]

His point was that meat isn't necessary as food anymore, hence the killing is done more for pleasure than any sense of survival.

If you think thats true you should eat fish. It's brain food. You may need some.

[Helgeran]

Last time kiddos.

Emotional entertainment and satisfaction from the killing of animal does not equal wanting to kill that animal quickly and eat it.

Its just that simple.
Well I guess resorting to calling someone young is better than providing an actual argument. Saying something is different "because it is" isn't valid in my eyes. If most animals didn't suffer from being bred and slaughtered in an economical fashion your stance would be correct. Or are you saying animals suffer more being gladiators than cattle? How do you measure this suffering? Remember you have to count a lifetime of stress in a meat factory versus an hour of being stuck with spears and swords. Is pain the only thing that counts as suffering?

If you think thats true you should eat fish. It's brain food. You may need some.
"you're stupid because I can't defend my point in an argument without resorting to name calling"

[kylan]

Well I guess resorting to calling someone young is better than providing an actual argument. Saying something is different "because it is" isn't valid in my eyes. If most animals didn't suffer from being bred and slaughtered in an economical fashion your stance would be correct. Or are you saying animals suffer more being gladiators than cattle? How do you measure this suffering? Remember you have to count a lifetime of stress in a meat factory versus an hour of being stuck with spears and swords. Is pain the only thing that counts as suffering?

I don't have to be told that stealing is wrong. It just is. Animals are here for us to eat or else the human race wouldn't even be here. So all this bullshit about slaughterhouses is retarded. Yes its bad, but its well intentioned.

If we just killed all the animals for sport we'd die. We kill them for food.

[kylan]

You don't have a point. You think that people getting emotional pleasure and satisfaction (AKA AS FUN. YES PLEASURE FROM KILLING.) from killing an animal and killing it to eat it are the same thing.

Now I know why you said in another thread flipping burgers is a real mans job.
You're just a fucking idiot.

edit: Can I have some fries with that?

[Silverhandorder]

Do as I say but not as I do. Just because I said so!

fixed

[Helgeran]

I don't have to be told that stealing is wrong. It just is. Animals are here for us to eat or else the human race wouldn't even be here. So all this bullshit about slaughterhouses is retarded. Yes its bad, but its well intentioned.

If we just killed all the animals for sport we'd die. We kill them for food.
Vegetarians die? Really? Bullfighting is well intentioned too, they do it to excite the crowd not to be mean to the bull.

[Helgeran]

You don't have a point. You think that people getting emotional pleasure and satisfaction (AKA AS FUN. YES PLEASURE FROM KILLING.) from killing an animal and killing it to eat it are the same thing.

Now I know why you said in another thread flipping burgers is a real mans job.
You're just a fucking idiot.

edit: Can I have some fries with that?
I guess I should have put a big troll sign on that post. Again: a great example of you not handling this discussion well, because even if I had been serious in that post it wouldn't have been relevant to this discussion.

[kylan]

Vegetarians die? Really? Bullfighting is well intentioned too, they do it to excite the crowd not to be mean to the bull.

No they're just mentally and physically weak and if it wasn't for our pansy ass society they'd probably die.

[Razli]

Once again. Not denying our system has flaws. It doesn't justify bullfighting though.

Its been in spanish culture for awhile, and its a type of tradition from back in the day when it was really fun and we didnt have any Animal Rights people.

And they still do it becuase its part of their culture.

[Helgeran]

our society is pansy ass but I cry when bulls get killed for sport and can't handle the truth about animals suffering for my sake, also vegetarians are retards
:sly:

[kylan]

:sly:

Nothing manly about killing a weakened animal and then having the audacity to have people jump in and save your ass.

I guess you really don't know what happens in a bull "fight". Look it up.

[kylan]

Its been in spanish culture for awhile, and its a type of tradition from back in the day when it was really fun and we didnt have any Animal Rights people.

And they still do it becuase its part of their culture.

Ya people also throw goats out of towers. Similar decent I believe.

[Razli]

Ya people also throw goats out of towers. Similar decent I believe.

EXACTLY!

As I said before, if they didn't want this to happen they would have out evolved us and treat us bad. Its their own fault really.

[Aacevedo]

I insist, this sport with predaliens would be so much fun.

[Razli]

Nothing manly about killing a weakened animal and then having the audacity to have people jump in and save your ass.

I guess you really don't know what happens in a bull "fight". Look it up.

Our lives are more important and they have little to know rights. Its the way things are.

And any sport has its flaws, Wrestling fixed, this is pretty much fixed, Football is getting more like Acting etc etc etc.

Get over it.

[kylan]

Our lives are more important and they have little to know rights. Its the way things are.

And any sport has its flaws, Wrestling fixed, this is pretty much fixed, Football is getting more like Acting etc etc etc.

Get over it.

I'd respond but you're a troll. More on predaliens though. You might be on to something.

[Helgeran]

Nothing manly about killing a weakened animal and then having the audacity to have people jump in and save your ass.

I guess you really don't know what happens in a bull "fight". Look it up.
I never argued a bull fight was fair and decent entertainment. Do you have any proof being a vegetarian makes you handicapped?

[Sqarak]

To all the vegetarians on the moral high ground. Why has a plant less rights to live than an animal? So far I have never heard one valid argument and that is fine, the choice not to eat meat is perfect valid one, but it is a choice, it does not make you morally superior.

If you find bullfighting is only as bad as killing beasts for meat, then torture is certainly only as bad as killing in self defence.

[Razli]

I'd respond but you're a troll. More on predaliens though. You might be on to something.

Not actually trolling, and if it seems like I am I am sorry.

This is just my stone cold opinion.

Their role in life is to do are bidding, whether that be to die by a matador (Not in this case obviously) and food. The way things are, and I hope things do not change.

I only agree that endangered animals have a bit more rights, only to maintain ecosystems so that we are not effected by the changes.

Humans FTW.

[kylan]

I never argued a bull fight was fair and decent entertainment. Do you have any proof being a vegetarian makes you handicapped?

our society is pansy ass but I cry when bulls get killed for sport and can't handle the truth about animals suffering for my sake, also vegetarians are retards

Thats what you said to me. You called me a pansy ass. I say killing a drugged and wounded bull isn't manly. ???

[Helgeran]

To all the vegetarians on the moral high ground. Why has a plant less rights to live than an animal? So far I have never heard one valid argument and that is fine, the choice not to eat meat is perfect valid one, but it is a choice, it does not make you morally superior.

If you find bullfighting is only as bad as killing beasts for meat, then torture is certainly only as bad as killing in self defence.
This is a tricky one (I'm not a vegetarian myself so I don't really know any "inside" explanations) but I'd go with plants not being able to think or experience. We know vertebrates can feel pain and have minds that are at least somewhat like our own. If I'm going to draw this all the way: we can't see their suffering because they have no way to express it. This is why we don't care as much for fish as we do mammals since we can read mammals pretty well. This is also probably the reason why kylan -really- is more opposed to bull fighting than meat industry, he can see the bull suffering but he can't see or hear the cow every time he has a steak.

[Silverhandorder]

To all the vegetarians on the moral high ground. Why has a plant less rights to live than an animal? So far I have never heard one valid argument and that is fine, the choice not to eat meat is perfect valid one, but it is a choice, it does not make you morally superior.

If you find bullfighting is only as bad as killing beasts for meat, then torture is certainly only as bad as killing in self defence.

First you don't have to be vegetarian to have the oppositions view point. Second the relationship being observer between bullfighting and eating meat is not the same that is observed in torture. You are comparing apples to oranges.

[Helgeran]

Thats what you said to me. You called me a pansy ass. I say killing a drugged and wounded bull isn't manly. ???
Well you are a pansy ass since you flee from the consequences of your reasoning. Me like Razli have no problem with animals suffering for our (eating) pleasure and we can't respect other people doing other things with their animals. You however argue that eating animals is a superior use of their lives on the basis that you "have to" and that bullfightig "is wrong". I'm not sure were manly comes into the equation and I'm not sure what your definition of manly is either, but it probably has something to do with running away from THE TRUTH.

[Helgeran]

You are comparing apples to oranges.
Or apples to cows even!

[SSguy]

How? It's not like we need meat to survive. We eat meat for pleasure and we watch bull fights for pleasure, just because one is mainstream does it might it more right?

Thats only if you are stupid. Theres a inherent definition of decency. Torturing an animal before it dies is not.
Grazing animals and letting them live a decent life, then a quick death for food isn't. They lived, and they serve a purpose other than fertilizer.

Its the factories that have them living in horrid conditions that is as bad as torturing a bull.

[Helgeran]

Thats only if you are stupid. Theres a inherent definition of decency. Torturing an animal before it dies is not.
Grazing animals and letting them live a decent life, then a quick death for food isn't. They lived, and they serve a purpose other than fertilizer.

Its the factories that have them living in horrid conditions that is as bad as torturing a bull.
Yes, but are you getting all your meat from free range animals? Or -gasp- do you not care?

[Sqarak]

First you don't have to be vegetarian to have the oppositions view point. Second the relationship being observer between bullfighting and eating meat is not the same that is observed in torture. You are comparing apples to oranges.

Imo bullfighting is just the same as having to observe torture. Something is being inflicted pain for something that is completely unrelated to any normal natural response.

I also admit that the only reason I eat meat is because I like the taste structure. Proper made tofu can be very delicious as well, sadly is it often very expensive unless you know the right addresses.

You also fail to notice or intentionally ignore that my earlier post was concerning the sense of higher morality. Even if I completely switch to a vegetarian diet I'd still have my fair share of intentional or unintentional murder. Both rodents and insects would still get killed to even preserve our non-animal food stocks and our general standard of health.

[Helgeran]

You also fail to notice or intentionally ignore that my earlier post was concerning the sense of higher morality. Even if I completely switch to a vegetarian diet I'd still have my fair share of intentional or unintentional murder. Both rodents and insects would still get killed to even preserve our non-animal food stocks and our general standard of health.
It is possible to value different organism different. This thread is interesting since it's not about animals vs. humans or even cows vs. insects but meat cow vs. gladiator cow.

[kylan]

Imo bullfighting is just the same as having to observe torture. Something is being inflicted pain for something that is completely unrelated to any normal natural response.

I also admit that the only reason I eat meat is because I like the taste structure. Proper made tofu can be very delicious as well, sadly is it often very expensive unless you know the right addresses.

You also fail to notice or intentionally ignore that my earlier post was concerning the sense of higher morality. Even if I completely switch to a vegetarian diet I'd still have my fair share of intentional or unintentional murder. Both rodents and insects would still get killed to even preserve our non-animal food stocks and our general standard of health.

Either we're being trolled or they just don't get it.

Eating an animal for food and torturing are two different things. You either see it or you don't.

[Jezrith]

His point was that meat isn't necessary as food anymore, hence the killing is done more for pleasure than any sense of survival.

I don't think that is what he was saying at all...

[PirateGlen]

It is possible to value different organism different. This thread is interesting since it's not about animals vs. humans or even cows vs. insects but meat cow vs. gladiator cow.

Why is a cow of any different value than a mouse or even insects for that matter?

[Silverhandorder]

Imo bullfighting is just the same as having to observe torture. Something is being inflicted pain for something that is completely unrelated to any normal natural response.

Torture vs self defense is different as pleasure from eating vs pleasure received from watching a struggle (even if it is one sided). I am not a vegetarian. I do not watch bullfighting and do not contribute to it. I will be damned if I will let some idiot spout bullshit about shit he does not understand. If he stands against bullfighting on the premise that it is an amoral pleasure then he needs to be a vegetarian. If he is not a vegetarian then he is either ignorant that his "pleasure" brings pain and suffering or a hypocrite. A hypocrite because he does not want other people to have pleasure if it involves the suffering of an animal, while excusing his own pleasures as "necessary".

So now you see how torture vs self defense does not apply? The relationship between torture and self defense is strenuous at best. Both are inflicting harm on individual in order to save either one self or one's brethren. On these grounds alone I would not be able to condemn torture because I will protect my self and anyone close to me in self defense. I will condemn torture based on the fact that it is not an efficient way to get information and there are better interrogation techniques that do not involve torture.

I also admit that the only reason I eat meat is because I like the taste structure. Proper made tofu can be very delicious as well, sadly is it often very expensive unless you know the right addresses.

Irrelevant.

You also fail to notice or intentionally ignore that my earlier post was concerning the sense of higher morality. Even if I completely switch to a vegetarian diet I'd still have my fair share of intentional or unintentional murder. Both rodents and insects would still get killed to even preserve our non-animal food stocks and our general standard of health.

I personally do not hold your morals and do not think animals are entitled to the same rights we are. For me personally I would not go out and find a bull to stick knives into. However I would not feel guilty for seeing it done. Will I go to that match? No.

However I understand a position of a person who would be against bull fighting and a vegetarian if his argument is against pleasure at the cost of suffering.

There are other reasons to come out against this. One for instance can say that this is no real competition since the bull is weakened before the fight. One can say that the tools that are used for the fight are excessive. That the fight is one sided. I could care less. I just do not enjoy a sight of an animal being taken down in this manner. I sure as hell will not look down on some one that does.

Why is a cow of any different value than a mouse or even insects for that matter?

Because like any commodity they hold different value to people. Some one may enjoy seeing a huge cow getting knifed to death. This raises the cows value in that person's eyes for that purpose. If you were to offer him a fight where a mouth has to replace the cow maybe that will get a little bit more one sided then they can handle and they will walk away from it.

[Helgeran]

Why is a cow of any different value than a mouse or even insects for that matter?
It's easier to feel sympathy for a person than an insect and easier to feel for a dog than a fish. Why? It's genetic.

[PirateGlen]

Because like any commodity they hold different value to people. Some one may enjoy seeing a huge cow getting knifed to death. This raises the cows value in that person's eyes for that purpose. If you were to offer him a fight where a mouth has to replace the cow maybe that will get a little bit more one sided then they can handle and they will walk away from it.

You've clearly lost the context. This question was addressed to a vegetarian who views animal torture for entertainment and animal death for consumption as the same thing.

You've taken the complete opposite approach throughout the tread and failed to see the difference between the two.

[PirateGlen]

It's easier to feel sympathy for a person than an insect and easier to feel for a dog than a fish. Why? It's genetic.

Then if other people do not have or have different distinctions in their genetic sympathies how can you argue that they should be the same?

[Silverhandorder]

You've clearly lost the context. This question was addressed to a vegetarian who views animal torture for entertainment and animal death for consumption as the same thing.

You've taken the complete opposite approach throughout the tread and failed to see the difference between the two.

No I understand very well what you are trying to say. My example was made to make you see what I mean not to start an argument.

I maintain that you can not be against bull fights if you are not a vegetarian and your only basis for being against bull fights is that it is guilty pleasure. This is very specific. Try to keep up.

Whether a vegetarian in context see them as the same thing is up to him. He is the only judge of value to his eyes. However pleasure is a universal value and it it only one parameter. A said vegetarian would have to have more parameters to draw a distinction. Then he would also have to articulate what those parameters are.

[PirateGlen]

No I understand very well what you are trying to say. My example was made to make you see what I mean not to start an argument.

I maintain that you can not be against bull fights if you are not a vegetarian and your only basis for being against bull fights is that it is guilty pleasure. This is very specific. Try to keep up.

Whether a vegetarian in context see them as the same thing is up to him. He is the only judge of value to his eyes. However pleasure is a universal value and it it only one parameter. A said vegetarian would have to have more parameters to draw a distinction. Then he would also have to articulate what those parameters are.

Let's assume that this bolded part is true (it's not). How is it any less legitimate than if a person were a vegetarian?

[Silverhandorder]

Let's assume that this bolded part is true (it's not). How is it any less legitimate than if a person were a vegetarian?

It is if a person says bull fights are bad because the animal is suffering and these people deriving their pleasure while this suffering occurs. Then he goes on to say while my pleasure of eating animals does not qualify because I it is "necessary".

Well it is not necessary. So he is wrong. It is a specific case and we made him get into that corner.

[PirateGlen]

It is if a person says bull fights are bad because the animal is suffering and these people deriving their pleasure while this suffering occurs. Then he goes on to say while my pleasure of eating animals does not qualify because I it is "necessary".

Well it is not necessary. So he is wrong. It is a specific case and we made him get into that corner.

That's not the argument. The suffering of the animal is not a prerequsite to my consumption of said animal. When the animal is tortured for the amusement of the crowd, the crowd is not similarly entertained without this torture. The suffering is a required condition for only one of the two acts in eating animals and bull fighting.

[Helgeran]

That's not the argument. The suffering of the animal is not a prerequsite to my consumption of said animal. When the animal is tortured for the amusement of the crowd, the crowd is not similarly entertained without this torture. The suffering is a required condition for only one of the two acts in eating animals and bull fighting.
That case can be argued once we manage to breed livestock without brains (hopefully not too far away!) but as it is now bred animals suffer. You could excuse yourself by actively chosing meat from a farmer that has free range cattle and sends them to well run regulation following slaugtherhouses but the truth is nobody really gives a shit. This is not about what is moral and what is not because there is no such thing as objective morals, it's about showing how hypocritical a stance some people have on the topic of animal handling. Basically: stfu about bull fighting being bad till you stop eating meat or admit that bullfighting is wrong because you can't ignore it as easily.

You could argue the case that bull fights are unfair and that it's a stupid sport since the odds or so much against the bull.

[sindas]

Something is seriously wrong with humanity. They basically torture this animal and then kill it.

Yes I eat meat but if I were to kill something to eat it I would try to do so as fast as possible. I'd like to take a bullfighters pet, be it a dog or what not and stab it a few times while some of his neighbors cheered.

I hope that bullfighter dies tbh.
I wouldn't want to take it out on his dog, i would stab him a few times..and a few more times..and then take a few hours to decide if i should kill him yet or stab him a few more times.

Bull fighters like this all need to die a very slow painful death.

[PirateGlen]

That case can be argued once we manage to breed livestock without brains (hopefully not too far away!) but as it is now bred animals suffer. You could excuse yourself by actively chosing meat from a farmer that has free range cattle and sends them to well run regulation following slaugtherhouses but the truth is nobody really gives a shit. This is not about what is moral and what is not because there is no such thing as objective morals, it's about showing how hypocritical a stance some people have on the topic of animal handling. Basically: stfu about bull fighting being bad till you stop eating meat or admit that bullfighting is wrong because you can't ignore it as easily.

You could argue the case that bull fights are unfair and that it's a stupid sport since the odds or so much against the bull.

Even if we accept that all animals bred for the purpose of consumption suffer, there's a reason for that: the price. Just as most moral vegetarians are too stingy to carefully plant and harvest their food, so are those that eat meat. It would cost more to eat only hand picked produce, just as it would cost more to consume only humanely treated meats.

There is a distinction between torturing animals for fun and slaughtering them for consumption.

[Sharuk]

So it's ok to kill things as long as they don't have an owner?

I guess thats the difference between you and I. I have the capacity to care about something/someone I've never met. You do not.

edit: The protein you get from a real mammal is nothing like the ones we can make in the lab. I do think animals are here for us to eat. Not to torture.

No its ok as long as no one cares, and no one does, cry more your tears feed Forumfall

[kylan]

There is a distinction between torturing animals for fun and slaughtering them for consumption.

Apparently there isn't and we missed the memo.

[Aacevedo]

Apparently there isn't and we missed the memo.

It sucks when you're not in the mailist doesn'it? You don't get invited to parties, you dont see those funny powerpoints... :(

[kylan]

It sucks when you're not in the mailist doesn'it? You don't get invited to parties, you dont see those funny powerpoints... :(

This is one of the lists I took my name off of.

[ikhoefnix]

Hahahahhaahha damn!!! Ahahhahahahaha

[Jangang]

Of course fucking of course it's suffering but it's no difference from animals being slaughtered for meat, we don't even need meat it's just luxuary just as the pleasure of viewing violence.

Animals are our slaves, if you want to oppose that slavery you better oppose all of it or find a good reason why this particular kind is worse. You think this bull suffers worse than meat animals? Go visit a slaughterhouse and you'll know otherwise hearing pigs scream as they are flayed alive if the boltgun failed to brain them.

Fuck you we don't need meat!

I agree that bull fighting is atrocious, and it shouldn't be tolerated in the civilized world... That said, I need my meat dagnabit. I'm not eating no soy shit... Without meat life would be drull and and unflavorful! Screw that...

[Silverhandorder]

Even if we accept that all animals bred for the purpose of consumption suffer, there's a reason for that: the price. Just as most moral vegetarians are too stingy to carefully plant and harvest their food, so are those that eat meat. It would cost more to eat only hand picked produce, just as it would cost more to consume only humanely treated meats.

There is a distinction between torturing animals for fun and slaughtering them for consumption.

So as I said you have no right to say one type of suffering is worse then another type of suffering. Neither does it matter what kinda of means and pathways are implemented in such suffering. What is important that consumers (of games or meat) enable it.

[verlox2]

Bull Fights are so awesome.

[DrGreenThumb]

Did that guy die? I sure hope he did as that horn ripped through his body. Wiggling like a fucking worm on a summers day.

[StainlessSteelRat]

Fuck you we don't need meat!

I agree that bull fighting is atrocious, and it shouldn't be tolerated in the civilized world... That said, I need my meat dagnabit. I'm not eating no soy shit... Without meat life would be drull and and unflavorful! Screw that...

Meh, I have no problem at all w/ bull fights. Course, I would have no problem w/ gladiator fights either. ;)

[PirateGlen]

So as I said you have no right to say one type of suffering is worse then another type of suffering. Neither does it matter what kinda of means and pathways are implemented in such suffering. What is important that consumers (of games or meat) enable it.

No, not really.

[Tibernicus]

Of course fucking of course it's suffering but it's no difference from animals being slaughtered for meat, we don't even need meat it's just luxuary just as the pleasure of viewing violence.

Animals are our slaves, if you want to oppose that slavery you better oppose all of it or find a good reason why this particular kind is worse. You think this bull suffers worse than meat animals? Go visit a slaughterhouse and you'll know otherwise hearing pigs scream as they are flayed alive if the boltgun failed to brain them.

Woman detected. I enjoy meat, and it is necessary for my survival. That's the course of nature. The strong rule the weak. When dolphins play around with baby seals before they kill them, do you flip a shit? You going to go on a crusade against dolphins telling them its wrong to play with their meal?

[Caffy]

Animals taste better if they have a painful death. You can actually taste the suffering, and it is fantastic!

[Amaryl]

So the torture of animals for the pleasure of the crowd is wrong?
but killing animals for the pleasure of the crowd is fine?

You can't bring in the argument about the crowd paying to see the bullfighting since you pay to eat for your meat.

It's true with our current technology we don't need to eat meat to survive.

But then again, People like to feel moral, and that's the only argument you have, Either you're a vegetarian, or you're a hypocrite. The fact that kylan uses the argument -I-'m going to torture your pet and send you the tape, proves it.

I love how people say, if a mistake is made in the slaughterhouse it's a mistake. but the fact is, if the animal doesn't die the first time, he gets tortured. why the fuck torture the animal for the slaughterhouse failure? find another "humane"(lols) method to kill the animal.

I mean the fact that we call methods of killing animals, "humane" is just the tip of this iceberg of hypocrisy, last time i checked the only "humane" killing was euthanasia. But hey, what ever makes you sleep at night.

And lastly, the western world is overproducing meat for consumption, every year we have huuuuuuuge surpluses of "needlessly killed animals" that get dumped at huge reduced prices on the african market, preventing african farmers to make a decent living.

And then i'm not even talking how they treat animals in the factory farms.
cutting of tails of pigs, sawing of beaks of chickens, etc, etc, etc.

The meat industry isn't any better then bullfighting.
the difference is, the industry does it to get a lot of profit.
bullfighting is a national tradition.

but the crowd, all get their emotional enjoyment.

But, I don't care about all that, since I love eating meat, and i buy the best quality meat, for the best price. and personally i don't want my meat prices to be double just because some poor little confused people want to treat animals lower on the foodchain more "humane"

[The Dark Zealot]

choice 1: Get instantly killed

Choice 2: Be wounded, but have a chance to kill the one that is going to kill you.

which would you choose?
which one is more moral?
anything and everything dies fighting, if you take that away, THATS unnatural.

[Saurio]

some fun facts:

1. The bulls live like fucking kings until the day they go to the arena. Unlike the cattle destined for food, which live a short and miserable life in 2 square meters pens.

2. The bull is eaten after the bullfighting "game".

3. Bulls which display an outstanding strength, resilience and agressiveness are spared the death blow and get destined to breeding. That is they spend the rest of their lives eating, lying down and fucking.

4. Its always fun when the bull pwns the fighter (happens more often than u think)

5. You have no right to criticize stuff like bullfighting while you condone, directly or indirectly, the suffering of billions of humans across the world. Humans which often starve so you can eat meat every day, work 14 hours a day for $1 so you can wear fancy sneakers and get killed in petty wars so you can feed your 20 liters/100 km ridiculously oversized cars.

[Helgeran]

Woman detected. I enjoy meat, and it is necessary for my survival. That's the course of nature. The strong rule the weak. When dolphins play around with baby seals before they kill them, do you flip a shit? You going to go on a crusade against dolphins telling them its wrong to play with their meal?
How about reading the thread? I eat meat, the difference is I aknowledge that it enables suffering while kylas and others close their minds so they can remain innocent. I eat animals out of spite!

[Helgeran]

5. You have no right to criticize stuff like bullfighting while you condone, directly or indirectly, the suffering of billions of humans across the world. Humans which often starve so you can eat meat every day, work 14 hours a day for $1 so you can wear fancy sneakers and get killed in petty wars so you can feed your 20 liters/100 km ridiculously oversized cars.
Actually they have if they admit they care more about animals than humans which imo should laber them traitors to our species.

[Dargnon]

He got what he deserved.

Why? Bulls created less evil than humans.

[Aerias]

Here's hoping that he dies, what a tosser. Such a disgusting "sport". I can't stand humanity sometimes.

[Silverhandorder]

Here's hoping that he dies, what a tosser. Such a disgusting "sport". I can't stand humanity sometimes.

You live in a country that was reduced to bunch of sorry bastards looking to their government for protection in every sphere of life. Thank humanity every moment that you breathe, because if not for humanity you will be rotting in some creek.

[Signus]

Here's hoping that he dies, what a tosser. Such a disgusting "sport". I can't stand humanity sometimes.

Wishing death on another human being does not make you noble.

[Drool111]

How? It's not like we need meat to survive.

dumb fuck