Seriously, fucking fix naked fighting/naked MM spam

[Hubbell]

This shit has been going on since beta, and it's retarded that a naked can whore such an overpowered (minimal mana usage, if you aren't a retard it's a guaranteed 10-20 dmg every single cast) spell, and groups of nakeds can just rush anyone with it and be guaranteed a kill unless they're fucking awful.


Naked = 2x damage
Starter weapon = 1/2 damage + no dura loss to players
Naked + Starter weapon = 4x damage, no damage to players

[Marxon_VG]

I agree with you, I think a person should have to risk at least something small in order to be viable in PvP. The simple act of taking away noob weapons would not strip players of PvP because Rank0 weapons are so abundant.

This would only force people to go to a bank to get gear.

[Rask]

here here!

Missing a piece of armor should = double/triple damage at least, and no i dont care if a piece breaks while you are out fighting, plan accordingly.

Robe should also not count, sorry fellow mages, get in Bone or something.

[SamDF]

Aventurine should stop falsely advertising Darkfall as a full loot game tbh, considering every player gets free standard issue weapons of choice + staff on respawn, oh, and some free spells to cast to, excellent!

[Rhasta]

I say we should 1 shoot naked players! New players can get armor in 30 minutes of playing so its not valid point either.

*This is not sarcasm, i hate naked bitches*

[Goit]

how about just a damage cap for noob weapons.... MM is fine

[Rhasta]

how about just a damage cap for noob weapons.... MM is fine

MM is not fine.

[Ben060682]

Agreed. This is one of the biggest game brakers for me at present. Because 4/5 of the server are naturists it seems.

I make a point of wearing gear always, even when mining etc.

People should be ashamed to walk about naked, at least wear some cloth to cover your privates. What are we, savages?

As for MM - introduce regs is simplest solution imo, or just nerf its damage hard.

[tonhl]

Naked plague has to stop.

If i hit with my sword a naked ppl i'm 99% of the time be able to almost kill him instantly.

I agree this game is not based on realism, but a naked ppl able to sustain multiple and multiple hits from swords, axes, maces is just plain stupid.

[Jade77]

No newbie weapons

all spells should have regents

naked players recieve X2 or more damage from any weapon.

= people always in any sort of gear, MM spammers will at least drop some regents or run out of them trying to kill you.

[Soneca]

MM is crap, u hit for 10-20 damage and someone with a bow hit for 30-60

[Toffee-LotD]

MM is fine, it needs to be there to give new players even a slight chance against veterans. As it stands right now, hardcore players with high defense/hp and good armor are impossible to kill with physical damage. The only problem with MM is the fact that it can be cast at any time.
A solution would be to remove the newb staff and add quests which would have it as a reward (e.g: the NPC gives you a temporary wood axe and asks you to chop 10 wood in order to make you a staff or whatever). This would limit naked MM rushing without making life impossible for new players.

[Elemental]

I sign all these kind of threads. NAKED ZERG = FAIL.

/signed.

[Long John Peter]

just make only one newby weapon available as in a stick or something that is not bound to any skill but does like 1-4 damage.
make healself castable without a staff.
done.

[Rhasta]

MM is crap, u hit for 10-20 damage and someone with a bow hit for 30-60

You can loose arrows, think before you post.

[Killface]

Must suck to suck so much that you are killed by naked guys.

If 3 naked guys fight an armored opponent, and they are good, I see no reason why they should be FORCED to fail.

Learn to fucking pvp and fight properly instead of whining and calling for everything to be nerfed.

This game has to be about skill also, not just gear. Whining loosers.

[Gekko101]

Must suck to suck so much that you are killed by naked guys.

If 3 naked guys fight an armored opponent, and they are good, I see no reason why they should be FORCED to fail.

Learn to fucking pvp and fight properly instead of whining and calling for everything to be nerfed.

This game has to be about skill also, not just gear. Whining loosers.

Full loot pvp game without the loot is fail.

People call themselves "hardcore" in this game yet a majority of them run around naked because god forbid they lose their branded set.

Also lol @ you saying why should the naked guys should be forced to fail?

Maybe because they are running around naked in a full loot pvp game ??!?!

[Ices]

Must suck to suck so much that you are killed by naked guys.

If 3 naked guys fight an armored opponent, and they are good, I see no reason why they should be FORCED to fail.

Learn to fucking pvp and fight properly instead of whining and calling for everything to be nerfed.

This game has to be about skill also, not just gear. Whining loosers.

This is very true, but I also think newbie weapons should disappear past a certain skill level, and they should allow skill ups with them.

So as a newbie, you get your newbie weapon, and you start killing goblins, you buy your newbie staff. But if you get past 50 lesser magic, your newbie staff is gone, and you can't get another. Same with weaponskills/archery. Maybe tweak the weaponskill/archery requisite for losing the newbie weapon a bit, but the idea is still sound. That way, new players still have a weapon/staff to gain skills with when they start out, but they also should be able to have at least some gold or something at this point to buy/make regular weapons and staves.

As a fairly skilled up player, I know I have TONS of R0 weapons and staves in the bank, just to use and lose.

This eliminates naked zerging, as someone would have to bank to at least grab a weapon/staff.

[TrikkyMakk]

Lets call the waaaaambulance.

If you cannot kill a naked guy then it might be you. There is a big difference between wearing armor and having good weapons and being naked with a starter weapon. In real life it is plausible for a naked person to actually overcome an armored person, especially if their conditioned (read skilled).

If there are multiple naked guys attacking one guy then why is that not plausible either?

[mrjosh75]

Smells like a bunch of whiney exploiters who can't figure out how to cheat past a naked dude. "So, we're going out to PK some noobs by the goblins - wanna come?" "No way, man, they're all naked. We're doomed."

[iliketoast]

not that im disagreeing with the naked = fail thing, but a lot of the naked turds have macrod the skills up to mastery, so the noob weapons are ideal.

no risk of loss, no real need for anything but some reagents and arrows, which are cheap and inexpensive.

why would the naked zergs wear armor if they dont really need it? 4 or 5 naked players with a minimum of experience can usualy mow down 80% of the people they will run across. two volleys of MM from one group will kill most people. -shrug- there is no need to risk gear, and that is what is broken.

There are Many times when i have run naked into enemy lands, bound at a chaos stone, and just trolled orc or alfar lands naked, just ganking as i go, picking up gear and weapons. you simply dont need them to be effective in pvp. if i do happen to die..so what? ive risked nothing but the loot i picked up from the last turd that had to fight me with no risk on my part.


~Memento Moris.

[Merkicus]

Sounds like someone raided a hamlet and got killed.

QQ more, OP.

[SamDog]

Good Sirs;

They could drop no-drop newb weapons just say you always have a suit of cloth armor and a set of r0 weapons in your bank (and make them worthless to vendors). Then a starter player is never out of luck and more advanced players who want to naked zerg at least have to go their bank when they die.

your humble servent
SamDog

[Narbo]

You're missing the point. The naked guys are risking NOTHING. The guy with gear is risking his gear. This might be OK if the guy with gear was significantly more powerful then the naked guys but guess what, armor does jack shit vs MM spam and 2-3 guys spamming MM can easily down a guy in plate before he can finish them all. If those same 3 guys fought with melee weapons they stand a good chance of losing 3v1 vs a guy in plate however because they have a bullshit range attack which pretty much completely ignores armor they are essentially guaranteed a win instead.

Frankly I think the easiest solution is to change MM to do one of the physical damage types (say piercing) so it is mitigated by armor. You want to spam MM? Fine. But it's now going to do about 4 damage to people in armor.

[iliketoast]

Narbo has a point. the sandard method for 3 nakeds to fight one geared person is one that is getting attacked to parry with the noob weapon, the other two mow down with mm. when the geared person switches targets, the nakeds just switch roles. new naked parries, the other two spam MM. Rinse and repeat. divvy the gear up, bank it, go find someone else. running away is futile because 3 guys with MM = 60 dmg per (what is the cast time for MM with a pool cue, a second? 1.5 seconds?) thats death within 5 seconds.

[Hubbell]

Must suck to suck so much that you are killed by naked guys.

If 3 naked guys fight an armored opponent, and they are good, I see no reason why they should be FORCED to fail.

Learn to fucking pvp and fight properly instead of whining and calling for everything to be nerfed.

This game has to be about skill also, not just gear. Whining loosers.

You don't have to suck to lose 3on1 vs naked guys who are spamming a no cooldown 10-20 damage spell that is impossible to dodge unless they are utter invalids irl.

[McLaren08]

Just put the game in thebin and copy UO with better graphics. you'll be onto a winner

[Azdul]

IMO There should be a spell which gives arcane protection - or some special kind of armor with high arcane resistance.

MM spam needs a counter tactics.

[TrikkyMakk]

Just put the game in thebin and copy UO with better graphics. you'll be onto a winner

lol

[Arkh]

MM damage should be impact, not arcane. Then all become right. Naked can still fight other naked while people wearing armor don't care about them anymore. And I mean armor, not shit leather.

[truthfully]

very simple really. i'm not sure why AV won't implement the following, maybe lack of foresight? who knows:

If player A has armor on and player B does not have armor on, Player A dmg towards Player B is multiplied many many fold.

this will discourage naked suicide mana missile zergs

[Ices]

OH MAN WHAT EVER CAN I DO TO COMBAT MANA MISSILES?!?!?!?!

Equip a shield and parry you dumbasses.

[Hubbell]

OH MAN WHAT EVER CAN I DO TO COMBAT MANA MISSILES?!?!?!?!

Equip a shield and parry you dumbasses.

That has to be the dumbest fucking thing I've heard yet.

[Brondon4]

ROFLMAO

Threads like this always bring out the morons.

Funny stuff. I swear some of you are 8 year olds judging by the way you post.

:lmao:

[El Chupacabra]

If you can't beat 'em...


Join 'em.

[slugy]

Good Sirs;

They could drop no-drop newb weapons just say you always have a suit of cloth armor and a set of r0 weapons in your bank (and make them worthless to vendors). Then a starter player is never out of luck and more advanced players who want to naked zerg at least have to go their bank when they die.

your humble servent
SamDog

this. i just want them to have to go back to the bank.

[Vogular]

3 Naked guys VS one in plate (asume he has a mount too).

My first clear thought would be, hmm lets ride away and leave them back there naked.

[Brazos]

Cry some more. If you are loosing to naked people you suck. If you don't have the sense to run from superior numbers you suck. You cry cause the game isn't favoring your play style, you suck.


Stop sucking and shut up.

[action-reaction]

This shit has been going on since beta, and it's retarded that a naked can whore such an overpowered (minimal mana usage, if you aren't a retard it's a guaranteed 10-20 dmg every single cast) spell, and groups of nakeds can just rush anyone with it and be guaranteed a kill unless they're fucking awful.


Naked = 2x damage
Starter weapon = 1/2 damage + no dura loss to players
Naked + Starter weapon = 4x damage, no damage to players
simpler is - remove the noobstaff

[action-reaction]

Cry some more. If you are loosing to naked people you suck. If you don't have the sense to run from superior numbers you suck. You cry cause the game isn't favoring your play style, you suck.


Stop sucking and shut up.
i suck cuz i kill 4 nakeds and die to the fifth (all by MM):(

[Ices]

That has to be the dumbest fucking thing I've heard yet.

How is that dumb? Have you tried parrying mana missile? Works great.

[action-reaction]

How is that dumb? Have you tried parrying mana missile? Works great.
not when you aim that the splash hits you. you can even aim the mm so that you hits the back of your opponent if if he shows you you his front.
yu cant parry something what is NOT directly hitting you

[Legion671]

No newbie weapons

all spells should have regents

naked players recieve X2 or more damage from any weapon.

= people always in any sort of gear, MM spammers will at least drop some regents or run out of them trying to kill you.

This

[rosenrot]

Once again, if you want the nakedness to stop, the grind has got to go.

Until then, I will enjoy taking your gear and making you cry, naked or otherwise. Some of you people really are in the wrong game here, having an attachment to pixels is a sure path to disappointment. :)

[mpaiva]

This is very true, but I also think newbie weapons should disappear past a certain skill level, and they should allow skill ups with them.

So as a newbie, you get your newbie weapon, and you start killing goblins, you buy your newbie staff. But if you get past 50 lesser magic, your newbie staff is gone, and you can't get another. Same with weaponskills/archery. Maybe tweak the weaponskill/archery requisite for losing the newbie weapon a bit, but the idea is still sound. That way, new players still have a weapon/staff to gain skills with when they start out, but they also should be able to have at least some gold or something at this point to buy/make regular weapons and staves.

As a fairly skilled up player, I know I have TONS of R0 weapons and staves in the bank, just to use and lose.

This eliminates naked zerging, as someone would have to bank to at least grab a weapon/staff.

Fail. There could be a situation that you have no gold, no weapon, nothing.
Deadlock situation.

[Hubbell]

How is that dumb? Have you tried parrying mana missile? Works great.

The whole point is that naked mm is extremely viable, and completely negates risk vs reward.

[Lumanil]

This is very true, but I also think newbie weapons should disappear past a certain skill level, and they should allow skill ups with them.

So as a newbie, you get your newbie weapon, and you start killing goblins, you buy your newbie staff. But if you get past 50 lesser magic, your newbie staff is gone, and you can't get another. Same with weaponskills/archery. Maybe tweak the weaponskill/archery requisite for losing the newbie weapon a bit, but the idea is still sound. That way, new players still have a weapon/staff to gain skills with when they start out, but they also should be able to have at least some gold or something at this point to buy/make regular weapons and staves.

As a fairly skilled up player, I know I have TONS of R0 weapons and staves in the bank, just to use and lose.

This eliminates naked zerging, as someone would have to bank to at least grab a weapon/staff.

This is a very good idea.
But i think, newbie weapons schould disappear after hitting a skill-cap with any skill.
A player whith lesser magic 50+ should loose staff and any other newbie-weapon he has. LM 50 means, he isn't a newbie anymore, so no need for newbie weapons .
Also Blacksmithing or tailoring 50+ are a sign of not being a newbie anymore.

[Nerathas]

wel mm is just one example why being naked is still unbalanced atm.
But the MM spam is idd annoying, it should not be that spamable.

[Viluin]

They need to buff the effectiveness of all armor pieces and the effectiveness of all non-starter weapons. What you get is non-armored people being hit for way more damage than they are now, but people wearing a good amount of armor won't notice a difference.

Newbie weapons would not be buffed, so they'd be pretty fucking gimped compared to even r0 weapons.

[rosenrot]

The whole point is that naked mm is extremely viable, and completely negates risk vs reward.

So your solution is to reduce naked players to total ineffectiveness?

I'm very glad you are not a game designer.

[Phenax]

Sweet, I'll have to sort through shit leather armor all day instead of nothing. Excellent idea.

[somerandomguy]

these guys obviously released early... but come to think of it, even with the kindof unfeatured game (compared to the promised one) they released today, they had quite a large plate to care of, compared to even large mmo companies.

I mean because of the freedom in this game and the sheer amount of features in it, SO many things can be abused and not work out as balanced. Though it doesn't help that AV moves with broad strokes and doesn't take a critical look at a feature before balancing it. Like the way they are balancing the game atm reminds me of how I balanced a WCIII map I made, if there was a deficiency on one side, I buffed them ALOT, and if there was something that was overpowered, I brought down the nerfstick. I mean it worked for an uncompetitive WCIII map but I wouldn't do it if I was in charge of a game development company... Please someone give these guys common sense! AGH this game could be great, its just that they lack this one thing that most other game devs take for granted..

[Jalisar]

When are these peeps naked? you are wanting to make it so when a player dies he has to run all the way to a bank to attempt to get the gear back just so you have time to loot them cause you cant kill a few naked players?
People that run around naked all the time annoy the living piss outta me, I personally just wear robes but for them not to count is stupid to say.. your cloth armor costs 0 gold to make and uses 12 cloth.. my robe and hood costs 20/20 to make the 2 items. I can use leather I suppose but cant make bone yet so wont use anything in this game that I cant craft myself.
I personally dont see a need to nerf MM just seems like QQ to me.

[Bloodgloom]

The biggest issue here is that a person should need to either a) recover his corpse or b) have to visit a bank when they die.

The actual value of a newbie weapon is somewhat insignificant, because even if they remove newbie weapons completely, players will still equip themselves with "garbage" r0 weapons/staves and be dangerous.

The real significance is in forcing someone to run to the bank after death (or recover their corpse) to retrieve a weapon so that they cannot continually bind stone zerg.

Regarding armor, because procuring armor takes some effort, there should be some sort of penalty for not wearing any armor or clothing at all. My suggestion would be to increase the % chance that a person will get critically hit with each piece of gear they are not wearing (not including jewelry).

[SSguy]

How is that dumb? Have you tried parrying mana missile? Works great.

How much damage does your gear take when the yare done spamming you with missiles and are now trying to kill you with newbie leafblades?

Its a lose-lose situation for the player.

If you win the fight, you are left with damaged gear, wasted time, and used up potions/food/etc.

If you win the fight.....you get no loot and still have to repair your stuff.

[iliketoast]

MM damage should be impact, not arcane. Then all become right. Naked can still fight other naked while people wearing armor don't care about them anymore. And I mean armor, not shit leather.

Actually, that isnt a bad idea. the big problem with MM is that its arcane dmg, and armor is weak against arcane, so MM is highly effective. naked zerging will become less popular if your noob weapons stop owning and you have to go and get a real weapon to kill someone with.

[Xandar464]

They are not naked ! They have underwear !

[krogoth]

There should be more of a penalty for being Naked.
I am sure most of the people that are saying just DEAL WITH IT, have their skills up to 50 or way past. most of my skills are 48 I do have a few 75s and a couple even higher, in most cases If I go up against a naked guy who is say 60-ish and I have my full scales or branded on, I don't macro I just play the game. I am getting better everyday hell last night I learnt 2 new things to help lolol. Naked against armour there should be some sort of multiplier that gives you favour for each piece of gear you put on and what kind. I have lost all my gear to naked guys before not a big deal to me as this is just a game and I knew that before it started. It would be hard to starting this game today at zero, It is kind of a catch 22 and makes it harder to start a game like this way after the server been up for months. I am guessing that why people are going to Xfering to NA-1 when it opens
Someone mention taking away the starter weapons, past 50, That could be an idea maybe just one handed weapons be given, that might even it out a bit, no 2 handed and the caster weapon limited to 4 damage.
I am not sure, if they will do anything about the naked. It is part of the game so most of us will have to deal with; I know I keep an eye out everywhere. I would be happy if AV does something about it.
Here is a good question, how many people are leaving the EU server just to get a fresh start on even terms??? Even the Mercs will have to start at zero hehehe. I am only leaving because I want my pings lowered but I knew my pings would be higher from the get go 168ms...

[fiddyep]

The simple solution to mana missles is just to change its damage type. That would nerf it's effectiveness in PvP without completely gutting it, and keep it viable for new players and PvE.

[Pewpewpew]

So your solution is to reduce naked players to total ineffectiveness?Yes? I dont see the problem. Put on gear ffs you coward bums.

[fr0g]

GIMP MM, make it have 1/3 the current range. Change the element from arcane.

And I agree, nakeds should be taking at LEAST double damage.

Who cares about new players, they get shit on anyway.

[Spyder0527]

Remove starter weapons, increase damage and protections across the board.

[phreakist]

OP is a whining bitchmade carebear... I'd almost assume it's a troll.

If you're getting killed by nakeds, you don't know how to play.

Nakedness is enough of a disadvantage already.

If you actually played the game, and spent some time training either archery or an aoe elemental nuke, you'd realize it takes a swarm of nakeds to take down 1 properly geared.

www.the420.net

[Hubbell]

OP is a whining bitchmade carebear... I'd almost assume it's a troll.

If you're getting killed by nakeds, you don't know how to play.

Nakedness is enough of a disadvantage already.

If you actually played the game, and spent some time training either archery or an aoe elemental nuke, you'd realize it takes a swarm of nakeds to take down 1 properly geared.

www.the420.net

If you actually played the game, and didn't macro to being able to hit for 40+ in the face with a bow (I have 35ish Sharpshooter iirc right now and hit for 25-30 in the face), you'd know that 2 nakeds will smash your face in with manamissile, and even if they don't, you just almost died for absolutely nothing as they risked nothing to try and kill you.

[action-reaction]

Idea it stays all like it is now.

But:
you can choose directly from begin 3 noobwpns - the have 30.000 durability (should last for 2-4 weeks) and then you should have enough to fight without noowpns. i mean have enoufgh gear and so on in bank.

the other thing -Nakeds and chaosbindstones.
REMOVE all RED NPC citys - add more wildernessbanks with and without towers

[Humblepower]

if you do eliminate naked combat, guess what, they will simply rise to nearest thing to being naked. They will just wear cloth armor and rank 0 weapons and a rank 0 staff all very easy to mass produce. Yes it may slow down there ability to come back and fight you, however most peoples problem with naked players is there going into a bet with almost no investment and everything to gain, while you risk it all because you choose to you. Then complain about it....

Get over it, naked players and the idea of risking nothing to very little will always exisist in darkfall, gear is only a means of increased survival, but it does not seal your victory. Now if the mods would be so kind as to lock and close all naked threads the population can move on to more important matters in game...

Please stop your rampant qq about nakeds. oh wait you live to do so, im sorry continue on with the fruitless effort of crying you resemble.

[Durindana]

The simple solution to mana missles is just to change its damage type.

exactly right, and the same's true for no-drop weaps - just don't give them bonuses from skill or mastery. done

Yes it may slow down there ability to come back and fight you

dude that is the point. It's not about nerfing noobs, it's about making fighting naked and independent of a bank more of a pain in the ass than wearing crappy gear.

[phreakist]

If you actually played the game, and didn't macro to being able to hit for 40+ in the face with a bow (I have 35ish Sharpshooter iirc right now and hit for 25-30 in the face), you'd know that 2 nakeds will smash your face in with manamissile, and even if they don't, you just almost died for absolutely nothing as they risked nothing to try and kill you.

If you're a horrible player, sure.

Anyway, two nakeds should have a chance to kill one geared nub who doesn't know how to mount up and avoid a naked zerg.

One naked SHOULD have a chance to kill someone (if it's an actual decent player naked vs anyone of the kind of players that qq in threads like this geared).

Try killing me with MM in a duel. I'll wear gear if you think it's worthless. If you can get me to 1/2 HP I'll quit DF and take up whining like a bitch on forumfall with the rest of you.

If you want a game where equipment = instant win, go play anything else.

If you want a game where equipment can give you an edge, and the rest is up to player skill... stop petitioning to ruin this one with your whining bullshit.

And for the record, MM is fine. It SHOULD be arcane. Try using MM 1 v 1 vs any decent player and you'll realize you're wrong.

THIS IS A GAME OF SMALL DIFFERENCES:

-Stats on their own don't have a huge impact.
-Character skill on it's own doesn't have a huge impact.
-Equipment on it's own doesn't have a huge impact.
-Weapon rank on it's own doesn't have a huge impact.
-Buffs on their own don't have a huge impact.

Combine the 5? Huge impact.

Add a little player skill? (hard to come by in this thread, I'm sure) and you have the makings of an easy win (which is apparently what you all want).

Fuck all you hoes... get a grip.

www.the420.net

[Barny]

Jesus, you are all whinny bitch trash. Learn to play the fucking game. What do you mean that a naked with MM can take down a geared? By geared, do you mean that you are wearin a robe and using an r0 polearm?:lmao:

A set of Banded can negate well over 40% of the damage that is done to you by a physical attack. A naked guy is going to be hitting you for a WOW OH MY GOD 14 DAMAGE MM!!!!

Well guess what? You can hit him for 50 with a bow. You can also nuke him with your elemental magic for 60+. Feel daring? Hit him with your r40 polearm for 40+ a hit as he hits you for 20+ (less then 15 with armor on). Suck too bad to do that right? Hop on your mount. Didnt bring a mount? Sprint away and use Mana>Stam

I mean, I understand Hubbel getting killed by a naked with MM beause he is shitty at the game (and so is his clan), but if someone in gear is getting killed by a naked guy spamming MM, then you just suck at the game. Now, 3 nakeds might be a different story; 3 people MIGHT be able to drop a decent player that is wearing gear. Maybe. But that's how it should be. GB2 wow if you want your Epic Purple l007z to make you some god.

And as for the OP's original statement that a buch of naked charging a buch of geared players are GOING TO GET A KILL AUTOMATICALLY, no. Just no. I mean, I know that Undead Army goes to seiges naked and every now and then they kill a guy in a robe, loot him, and flee to bank their prize; but have you ever ACTUALLY fought 5 nakeds with 5 geared guys? The nakeds wont get anyone below 3/4 hp.

L2P QQ GB2 WoW

[Pewpewpew]

L2P QQ GB2 WoWGuess you lack reading comprehension the whine aint about nakeds 1vs1, its about nakeds risk nothing and are still viable to down ppl quite easy.

[Shaoz]

I say we should 1 shoot naked players! New players can get armor in 30 minutes of playing so its not valid point either.

*This is not sarcasm, i hate naked bitches*

Good idea... not kidding either. Naked fighting needs to be removed... as harsh as possible.

[Viluin]

If you actually played the game, and didn't macro to being able to hit for 40+ in the face with a bow (I have 35ish Sharpshooter iirc right now and hit for 25-30 in the face), you'd know that 2 nakeds will smash your face in with manamissile, and even if they don't, you just almost died for absolutely nothing as they risked nothing to try and kill you.

Tbh mana missile only tickles, I don't even bother trying to dodge it anymore. for 2 players with MM to take you down they'd have to be quite skilled.. most people miss half the time and when they hit they hit from the front.

[Shaoz]

Tbh mana missile only tickles, I don't even bother trying to dodge it anymore. for 2 players with MM to take you down they'd have to be quite skilled.. most people miss half the time and when they hit they hit from the front.

How the #@$@ do you miss with mana missile? Hitting in the front with mana missile just means those guys suck at aiming.

[tarian85]

Try killing me with MM in a duel. I'll wear gear if you think it's worthless. If you can get me to 1/2 HP I'll quit DF and take up whining like a bitch on forumfall with the rest of you.
You might as well quit now.

[Shaoz]

You might as well quit now.

QFT.

Phreakist you're not very good at this game if you think that isn't possible. It only furthers the idea that you should just quit now.

[Viluin]

How the #@$@ do you miss with mana missile? Hitting in the front with mana missile just means those guys suck at aiming.

I don't know, just my experience with MM spammers. Then again, most MM spammers I meet are indeed noobs.

[Hubbell]

Tbh mana missile only tickles, I don't even bother trying to dodge it anymore. for 2 players with MM to take you down they'd have to be quite skilled.. most people miss half the time and when they hit they hit from the front.

#1 If you miss with mana missile more than 1/10 shots then you're a fucking retard

#2 not all of us have 300+ health, I've got 230, and gear does NOTHING against mana missile damage, so it's always 10-20 damage.

[iliketoast]

MM damage is listed as arcane, so unless you are in bone armor, youll be taking almost full dmg from a MM..thus the zerg_in_underwear

To confirm. you CANNOT parry splash damage, so whoever said just parry up is a nubcake. Nubcake being what it is, ill provide a bit of help from urbandictionary for you

nubcake 44 up, 22 down
Noun- Someone that sucks at an online game. Used as an insult that typically irritates the person at whom it is being directed. Derived from the word nub, which is a variation of the word noob. Usually, the word nubcake is exchanged among experienced players in a joking manor, since most real noobs would not understand its meaning.


the nubcake thing aside, MM = autowin
naked zerg spamming MM = autowin with no risk of loss
autowin with no risk of loss = DF fail.

any questions??

~Memento Moris

[sirgarycoleman]

This really only matters in siege situations, but an easy fix would be to make starter weapons do much less damage. At least then they'd be risking their weapons.

[iliketoast]

or just change MM to another kind of damage that armor gives a protection against. then the zerg_in_underwear wont be as much of a threat. 4 naked people chasing you with MM that does 10 damage to someone in armor is a bit safer than 4 people with MM doing 80 dmg to someone in armor, and its a simple solution to a irritating problem.

[Korrg]

If you want to play naked go play leisure suit Larry or Sims or some crap like that. Not wearing armor and getting hit with a sharp object should hurt like hell.
no matter how skilled you are with the nuances of wielding a greataxe a piece of driftwood with 1/2 a sawblade sticking out of it might be good to parry with but it shouldn't do even minor damage to any real armor (banded and above) and only minor damage to leather.


there is no excuse for naked zergs it's exploitation of a broken mechanic like the old alignment system, macroing, wall running etc. and practiced by the same d-bags.It's not a "play style" or a "choice" those words imply playing the game as intended, no one intended a game with a lot of naked fools running around whacking each other for no reason. I took "equipment will not make a lot of difference" to mean no purple suits of awesomeness not that there's little difference between plate and boxers

[pZombie]

remove newbie weapons altogether, give people unarmed combat for newbies to get started.

Implement player run taverns you can craft (expensive) via construction.
Add a UFC like ring to those taverns, people can sit there and place bets on people fighting unarmed.
Add some mortal combat style moves for unarmed combat, including fatalities people can use in those "boxing"-rings. Add a ladder system for such fights.

profit!

Add some texas hold them tables to the taverns, people can play for ingame gold.

[FailFall]

you need more health first, its not hard to hit 280 let alone 300.

if you cant kill someone naked or outrun naked people then that is your problem. this is a MMO, get friends. l2play.

i can kill 3 naked mana missle spammers without dropping below 75% health

use the terrain to your advantage, fight them almost 1v1 as you leave the area (after all they will drop 0 loot if they are naked...)

force them to come to you if they want your loot, bow them down or magic. most MM'ers have ~200 health, bow does nearly 40 every shoot to them.

when they bunch up you can magic spam them back for mass aoe damage

use heal spells..
play smart..

i guess when you cant perch on unreachable mob locations, killing naked people could be hard mr hubbell. l2p.

[Whacko]

You can loose arrows, think before you post.

Yes THINK.....

It's LOSE not LOOSE.....FFS

[Srengi]

I say we should 1 shoot naked players! New players can get armor in 30 minutes of playing so its not valid point either.

*This is not sarcasm, i hate naked bitches*

What new player wants to spend 30 minutes getting one set or armour only to get ganked and loose it in 10 seconds? Who wants to spend an hour farming just to be able to PvP and get killed twice? This is where the problem lies. Maybe you can afford it, but Ive been playing a month and I still dont risk armor to PvP considering that at 10 gp a kobold kill, thats 30 kobolds just to get some banded. Twice as many gobbo kills for banded. Screw that.

[MrDDT]

So wear leather, or studded.

[Septus]

Must suck to suck so much that you are killed by naked guys.

If 3 naked guys fight an armored opponent, and they are good, I see no reason why they should be FORCED to fail.

Learn to fucking pvp and fight properly instead of whining and calling for everything to be nerfed.

This game has to be about skill also, not just gear. Whining loosers.

You're a fucking idiot. Try actually PvP'ing and realize that 90% of the players resort to nothing but spawn rushing. That means you kill them, they respawn, and they run right back at you.

I don't care if players use r0 weps and leather armor, but SOMETHING.

That or implement vitae so you can't repeatedly spawn rush.

[Teth]

I have said it in the past and I will say it now. Do not give damage increases for higher skill/stats on newbie weapons. If we can't gain any skill with them, then they should not benefit from higher skill either. Have them do only base damage. That's it. Full stop.

[Septus]

To confirm. you CANNOT parry splash damage, so whoever said just parry up is a nubcake. Nubcake being what it is, ill provide a bit of help from urbandictionary for you


You're the fucking newbie. You can parry splash provided the MM lands in front, just not if it's aimed behind you so the splash hits your back.

Basically, if you're facing the right way, you parry it.

[Septus]

I have said it in the past and I will say it now. Do not give damage increases for higher skill/stats on newbie weapons. If we can't gain any skill with them, then they should not benefit from higher skill either. Have them do only base damage. That's it. Full stop.

Good call, that's probably the cleanest solution.

[Srengi]

How the #@$@ do you miss with mana missile? Hitting in the front with mana missile just means those guys suck at aiming.

300 ping.

[FireBladeXL]

I almost really wish they put the 1hitnaked kills in, or 3 hits even...I'd love to see the post of what happens when some 30 man group rolls into your city and bind stone camps half a alliance.

[Gratchek]

I actually agree with some of these posts. Having a naked guy with 100 weapon mastery in greatsword and maxed MM hitting you with no worry for loss is a bad mechanic.

All newbie weapons should only give 1.0 skill in its use for the weapon or the magic. This would fix a lot of problems DFO is having right now in this regard.

[opticalshadow]

Tbh mana missile only tickles, I don't even bother trying to dodge it anymore. for 2 players with MM to take you down they'd have to be quite skilled.. most people miss half the time and when they hit they hit from the front.

from my exp in sieges or even in the few roaming naked bands tats jsut the problem, peopel with weapon mastery and high magic running around in group of 5+. you dont have to be terrible at playing the game to lose to 5 people who have superior skills. hell ive seen one three ocasions now high level fire magic users running around naked with regrets, better then naked but still only a few sulfur...

the point isnt to hurt new players, its to hurt good player that choose to use this system. mm spam is a problem yes, not with new players so much who do a bit of damage and would run from the first sight of a fully geared mounted veteran, lets face it, its not new players hunting those people. the problem is well orginized clans that have macroed, exploited or actual legit raised their skill up to that that meets or surpasses a good player, has skill and does it anyways.

[Arkh]

Impact damages.
One fucking value to change somewhere and this would be fixed.

[grygar]

simpel fix, make MM do 0 dmg to players and full dmg to mobs

[janarick]

All newbieweapons to do 50% damage on players would be good enough.

[rosenrot]

Yes? I dont see the problem. Put on gear ffs you coward bums.

The problem is that people are running naked because getting any gear of consequence is too time consuming to be worth it, seeing as how you lose it all after one death.

So if you make it so naked people are defenseless, the playerbase will shrink even more because nothing is going to make people grind who don't want to grind.

It would be better to make it easy for gear to be obtainable. Or would that not work because you "risk vs reward" types want to loot valuable stuff off everyone you kill?

[Otenshi]

Problem with making nakeds too vulnerable or not able to deal damage:

SIEGES! Yes, we have all seen the naked rushes in sieges, but it happens for specific reasons.

When you are the defender in a siege, and you die, and mostly everyone dies once during a siege, you will respawn in the city being sieged, well naked of course. Now yo are already low health, and low mana. You are already taking more damage as you are naked.

Now here is the thing, they need to be have mm and those starter weapons now to be able to deal any damage and show any type of retaliation.

Many of you may say, well the idiot can just go to the bank and regear. This is wrong! In sieges the bank is destroyed or possibly overrun by the enemy. Not to metion that you are naked and low health so just two or three hits kill you now.

Therefore if you are the defender and you die, if they make it so that starter weapons do not deal any damage or note even it's current dmg output, and/or make nakeds even more weak to damage, then that person might as well log off after the first time they die in the siege.

This effectively makes sieges even more boring.

[WolfHammer]

Smells like a bunch of whiney exploiters who can't figure out how to cheat past a naked dude. "So, we're going out to PK some noobs by the goblins - wanna come?" "No way, man, they're all naked. What can we possibly gain?"

There.. Fixed...

[Jerboa]

Forum Noobie: I'm a noob and I'm getting owned at noob spawns. What should I do?

Forum Veteran: Get some skills, you idiot. Teh game is hardcore! Stupid freakin' carebear.

***

Forum Noobie: I was out soloing and I got gang raped. What should I do?

Forum Veteran: Get some skills and some friends, you idiot. Teh game is hardcore! Stupid freakin' carebear.

***

Forum Noobie: I keep getting owned by people who exploited. What should I do?

Forum Veteran: Get some skills and some friends, you idiot. Teh game is hardcore! Stupid freakin' carebear.

***

Forum Veteran: Five naked guys pwnd me. I lost my armor. They risked nothing.

Forum Veterans In Chorus: OMG, FIX TEH NAKED ZERG!

[Hubbell]

Seriously, fucking fix this shit.

[lkx]

Forum Noobie: I'm a noob and I'm getting owned at noob spawns. What should I do?

Forum Veteran: Get some skills, you idiot. Teh game is hardcore! Stupid freakin' carebear.

***

Forum Noobie: I was out soloing and I got gang raped. What should I do?

Forum Veteran: Get some skills and some friends, you idiot. Teh game is hardcore! Stupid freakin' carebear.

***

Forum Noobie: I keep getting owned by people who exploited. What should I do?

Forum Veteran: Get some skills and some friends, you idiot. Teh game is hardcore! Stupid freakin' carebear.

***

Forum Veteran: Five naked guys pwnd me. I lost my armor. They risked nothing.

Forum Veterans In Chorus: OMG, FIX TEH NAKED ZERG!

rotfl :lmao:

[EvilDonkey]

They are too dumb to fix it.

[Bslev]

When every three dozen new players are forced to fight over the same 2-3 goblins per camp (who don't even drop any armor that lasts more than 5 minutes), or to grind out for weeks just to be able to start crafting anything decent, you can expect the stupid naked bullshit to live on.

Tasos says they are "Improving the newbie experience, making the transition to Darkfall smoother and lowering the learning curve"... if that means reducing the initial grind that is currently required until new players who are still clan-less/craft-less can afford to replace the gear they lose at an acceptable rate, then it will curb naked zergs.

It's not rocket science - people won't go around wearing armor until they can afford to lose it, and they won't go around casting high-level spells that require reagents until they have grinded to the level required to learn those spells AND secured themselves a source of reagents that doesn't involve macroing for 2 hours to cast 20 minutes worth of spells.

Nerfing people's initial options won't fix it... it would only increase the value of armor/reagents for new players who still haven't established themselves even further, so they will be even less prone to wearing armor or casting decent spells. This might actually increase the number of naked idiots, even if it reduces their efficency.

The solution IMHO is to attack the causes, not the symptoms. AV should reduce the initial grind required to learn crafting and reagent-based spells, giving people an incentive to risk their best armor and to use their best spells. In short, make noob shit easier to obtain so noobs can afford to lose their noob gear/reagents earlier on. Just balance the progression curve so that all of it will still be crap compared to higher-end shit. Encourage people to lose their shit.

[Scottc1988]

Theres a GM spell that makes MM do shit damage. :O

[HauptmannHP]

Thread moved.

[Korrg]

Problem with making nakeds too vulnerable or not able to deal damage:

SIEGES! Yes, we have all seen the naked rushes in sieges, but it happens for specific reasons.

When you are the defender in a siege, and you die, and mostly everyone dies once during a siege, you will respawn in the city being sieged, well naked of course. Now yo are already low health, and low mana. You are already taking more damage as you are naked.

Now here is the thing, they need to be have mm and those starter weapons now to be able to deal any damage and show any type of retaliation.

Many of you may say, well the idiot can just go to the bank and regear. This is wrong! In sieges the bank is destroyed or possibly overrun by the enemy. Not to metion that you are naked and low health so just two or three hits kill you now.

Therefore if you are the defender and you die, if they make it so that starter weapons do not deal any damage or note even it's current dmg output, and/or make nakeds even more weak to damage, then that person might as well log off after the first time they die in the siege.

This effectively makes sieges even more boring.

disable the city bindstone during declared sieges. if your in good standing with your faction you go to the nearest city indestructible bank, and a long walk or having to grab a mount (even more reason to stay alive) as punishment for dieing. this would also serve to make being close to a NPC city a strategic advantage not a disadvantage as it is now. And possibly force attackers to split there forces repelling the notion of a zerg. if your in bad standing with your faction you go to a chaos stone/city what ever is closest there are few enough penalties for murders and/or ARCs this would have consequences to the clan as well as the individual.

[Ketu]

This shit has been going on since beta, and it's retarded that a naked can whore such an overpowered (minimal mana usage, if you aren't a retard it's a guaranteed 10-20 dmg every single cast) spell, and groups of nakeds can just rush anyone with it and be guaranteed a kill unless they're fucking awful.


Naked = 2x damage
Starter weapon = 1/2 damage + no dura loss to players
Naked + Starter weapon = 4x damage, no damage to players
What if Mana Missle was changed to a single target ray spell?
And still keep it reagentless and low mana useage.
Have an AE on it when it surges...

[Otenshi]

disable the city bindstone during declared sieges. if your in good standing with your faction you go to the nearest city indestructible bank, and a long walk or having to grab a mount (even more reason to stay alive) as punishment for dieing. this would also serve to make being close to a NPC city a strategic advantage not a disadvantage as it is now. And possibly force attackers to split there forces repelling the notion of a zerg. if your in bad standing with your faction you go to a chaos stone/city what ever is closest there are few enough penalties for murders and/or ARCs this would have consequences to the clan as well as the individual.

What about the whole fact that defending a city is suppose to be easier than attacking one. The advantage is suppose to be for the defenders, not the attackers.

This would make it equal grounds for defenders and attackers when dying.
Attackers have advantage in pre-planning.
Attackers have advantage in when to siege.
Defenders have advantage in the 4 hour's before, and that is all.

[Korrg]

What about the whole fact that defending a city is suppose to be easier than attacking one. The advantage is suppose to be for the defenders, not the attackers.

This would make it equal grounds for defenders and attackers when dying.
Attackers have advantage in pre-planning.
Attackers have advantage in when to siege.
Defenders have advantage in the 4 hour's before, and that is all.

you rather attackers are the only ones with easy access to their bank?!?
if you hold a city, preparation for its defence should be your highest priority
ultimately sieges are a dealers (house) game as attackers have to actually win
naked defenders spawning on top of the bind-stone are just as much a problem as naked attackers

[Otenshi]

I agree, the fix though is not to force the defenders to be bound elsewhere. The fix does not lie with changing the system to where it affects sieges. The change needs to come from elsewhere.

[Paranoia21]

This shit has been going on since beta, and it's retarded that a naked can whore such an overpowered (minimal mana usage, if you aren't a retard it's a guaranteed 10-20 dmg every single cast) spell, and groups of nakeds can just rush anyone with it and be guaranteed a kill unless they're fucking awful.


Naked = 2x damage
Starter weapon = 1/2 damage + no dura loss to players
Naked + Starter weapon = 4x damage, no damage to players

The best way to fix this would be 2 options,

1 Change naked stats to -10.0 or w/e and increase all armour pieces stats efectively making an armoured person the same as he is now but a naked would take a ton more damage

2 Have armour pieces add to HP ie naked person with stats or w/e has 250hp a guy with banded on would have 300hp this would encourage wearing armour and wearing more than just some chain/leather shit like 75% of the server right now. this should not be so dramatic though that a guy in Infernal/Dragon could totaly dominate a group of 10 people in banded

I mean a crafted banded set is 36 ingots 12 leather and a miniscule amount of gold that's nothing even for a guy that plays an hour a day he could spend that hour mining and gathering some gold and buy some leather and get a few crafted banded sets made for the rest of the week

[Quantri]

I think you are missing the point here. A guy with starter weapon against a armored guy doesnt stand a chance. Since the weapon does low damage and the damage gets reduced by the armor. So this works okay (Maybe someone with 100 mastery might still do some damage, but maybe mastery shouldnt work with starter weapons?).

The problem is spamming fucking manamissile that goes through armor. That need to be changed now. Its so stupid to have naked people do the same damage to a guy in dragon armor and to a naked guy. I cant belive Darkfall made that mistake and have not yet corrected it.

[Goat R]

I really dont see much of a problem witht the system the way it is currently. The game already gives a little "reward" to an attacker with the somewhat clunky UI and often being locked in first person mode, not to mention the attacker chooses when and where to place an attack.

As far as sieges go, I believe that the "naked zerg" is also working as it should, as a bonus to the defenders.

Really the only thing I think might need to be changed is MM damage type, from arcane to something that armor blocks better. Might even be able to raise MM damage a bit if it is changed to a different damage type.

[Wizard of Yndor]

**Long post warning**
.
Lots of good posts both pro and con on this topic. Personally I am undecided on what action should be taken. But I will toss out some opinions to chew on.


First, I think any, and all ideas that state: "if a player is naked, or not wearing enough gear, then condition a, b, or c, should happen" will not work. Reason this will not work is due to the added server load this would cause. Some of these ideas are interesting, but simply put, not feasible due to the complexity and added hardware strain on the game server. None of us want that.

Second, players who get killed, and noobies need a way to defend themselves from over-geared, item mongers who would love nothing better than to repeatedly slaughter, and grief them. And would do so for no other reason than just because they can.

Not every player cares about getting items from kills. Just look at how often the goblin spawns are raided on a daily basis by mounted, banded/plate armored players, with rank 40+ weapons for proof of that sad fact.
Do you really think they are doing that just for the loot?

So I think starter weapons should pack some punch, the damage they do to well geared, skillful opponents is barely enough to be threatening as is. And the reality is that naked/low gear players run like hell when heavily armed raiders come. So I think damage output from starter weapons/Mana missiles is fine too.

And anyone who thinks they should win a 4 vs. 1 fight just because they have superior gear, needs to go back to WoW. That is exactly how the designers of this game intended it to be (3-4 noob characters in weak gear being able to drop a single well geared foe, if played correctly), and has been stated by the developers on numerous occasions throughout this games development.

*******************
*******************

The problems I see with the naked zerg rushes seem mainly centered around city sieges.

I agree having 80 dip-shits charge your clan city just doing pew-pew with mana missiles, and only using starter weapons is just annoying as hell. This tactic needs to be stopped.

One solution to this part of the problem should focus not on the items themselves, but on the situational use (abuse) of the starter weapons.

Perhaps if a change were made to when or against whom the starter weapons could deal damage to, a more effective fix could be found.


> One possible solution might be to simply negate all damage, and effects from starter weapons whenever the target is an opponent you are at war with, and also that clans allies, and vice verse. Or maybe just cancel starter weapon effects during a city siege.

That is not a perfect solution, but I believe it would be a step in the right direction to address at least part of the problem.

Downsides I see to that is this:
Player dies and gets looted while defending a clan city, and now can not help defend any longer because the bank is blocked by the enemy. Possible work around for that might include adding several various places inside the city where defending players could bank from? /shrugs.

Player dies while assaulting a city, and now can no longer help in the attack. Solution to that is simple- Make sure your clan teammates carry extra weapons with them for the attack, to resupply clan mates (logistics).

I do not have all the answers, but I have not seen any posts approaching the starter weapon / mana missile conundrum from this angle so I wanted to put it on the table for discussion.

/all for now.