resources in cities

[sOultOsqUeeze]

dont you guys think, that logging and herbs gathering should be out of the cities? i think it is too easy to gather this resources now. too many people do it. You can gather it with absolutly no risk under protection of towers.

extremly low prices of herbs and timber - isnt it some kind of economic issue?
(btw sorry for my english :/)

and isnt it strange, that almost everyone on server chops wood? wasnt it supposed to be specialization (combined with other crafting skills)? and i dont mean you should not be allowed to do it, you can do everything, this is DFO, but i think it should be as chellenging and time consuming (in oposite to afk chopping) as gathering iron for example (still there are more trees than metal spawns, so the price will be adequate).

SUGGESTION:
solution for no wood chopping in cities could be getting grey if you touch them (dont you think that guards would react if you start to chop trees in city?)


i have little mmorgp expirience, so im interested in as many opinions and views i can get.

ps. i posted this already on crafting forum, but i think it fits here better. sorry for double posts.

[sOultOsqUeeze]

bump

[lkx]

Just add more profitable resources out in the wilderness.
Maybe more resources count, more resource per chop, or even better a rare resource chance.

Maybe add more materials, it's boring to have only iron to mine around

[Iracondo]

Just add more profitable resources out in the wilderness.
Maybe more resources count, more resource per chop, or even better a rare resource chance.

Maybe add more materials, it's boring to have only iron to mine around

Yeap, more type of resorce, different type of the same resource, what you want but please, do it :)

[Marxon_VG]

The market dictates price.

Look at iron, it is still extremely expensive compared to the other resources and it can be mined in safety just like the resources you are complaining about. Why? Because people need a ton of it.

What's the real problem?

The issue is demand, not the supply or the ability to harvest the supply in safety. Currently no one is making ships because they are broken, but rest assured that when they make ships faster than a sprinting swimmer and unable to be hack-stolen, you will see a major increase in demand for wood.

On the other hand, there isn't much I can say for herbs... they are just cheap and I think that is alright. People simply aren't chugging potions fast enough, or maybe it should take more herbs per pot. Personally I think it is fine.

[Vogular]

it is fine..people are just to greedy to use pots or buy them

[schlock]

I agree that there should be reduced gathering inside city walls. But considering the countless hours one needs to gather anything to be able to perform a craft, it should be left alone for now. What needs to be done is increase the amount of goodies you get outside of city walls and decrease or get rid of failure rate.

Example
Inside city walls = 1 nugget per strike, only 20-30 deep
Outside city walls = 2-3 nuggets per strike, 40-60 deep

There is still some safety inside but incentive to leave city.
There should always be some available in safety. Gather-gankers become unbearable sometimes.

No grey for chopping city trees, that's just plain silly.:D

[Furyos]

Just add more profitable resources out in the wilderness.


Anything Aventurine can do to encourage people to actually play and enjoy the game is a good thing.

[Gammabeam]

No need for that.

Ressources in town are very soon depleted anyway.

[5%Luck]

the real reason for the DFO recession is the opening of the NA server. With the skill only transfer gold has become near valueless. I cant even spend gold on reagents anymore save the NPC vendors.

Once the majority of the transfers are complete the material prices will steady out once again. But right now players spend their gold asap since grind can be taken with you but gold can not,

[keeperofstars]

To solve the whole problem speed up gathering a shit ton. I mean it is fucking stupid to spend nearly 20 some minutes to fully tap one node.

Base player 10 seconds per tap X 50 = 500/60(seconds) = 8 minutes if you hit every one. If you miss at the average of 50% fail rate that is 16 minutes to get
50 wood which makes 10 timber which makes nothing.

So then you go out and do iron get those 10 ingots yeah you can now make 200 arrows after farming for 40 minutes, add on empty node hitting and its down to about an hour. Or if you trying to make a R10 2handed axe you can make 2 axes an hour roughly. Woot and Yeah.

Instead speed that shit way up like 5 seconds tops on gather at start, then as you get your mastery it goes down to about 1.5 seconds per gather. Leave the respawn timers the same, this means the crafter can make tons more resources without losing so many brain cells. All the city resources will be tapped very quickly, forcing more players outside of cities for everything.
Items would be cheaper and easier to come by so more people would wear gear. If I could spend an hour and make a full suite of plate I would wear it. I however am not going to spend 4 hours making full plate and then go wear it.
I will spend the 200 gold and make a full set of studded or leather, and go from there.

Would greatly help DF. Then put armor drops on mobs, and I mean lots of armor drops on mobs, I want to see at least 1 piece per kill. The random durability is fine, I don't mind seeing crappy durability, but I want to be able to go out and get my armor from some mobs. So I can fight harder mobs which gives me money to pay for the crafters to make me the good shit.

Do those 2 things and DF will be much better off.

[sOultOsqUeeze]

adding more resources - great idea, but much more time consuming for devs, than just marking resoursec in cities as a "no no" (Breaking the law will cost you being gray for 10 sec - this is already implemented). Or maybe just turning them into non harvesting types of trees, rocks etc.

we were talking about economic issues, and what about filling the world? Making harvesters go out will make many more activities nessesery. Groups of farmers (for savety), maybe even player guards near spots. And many more will be going on around you, after leaving the city.

not everyone will gather resources now, since it would be time consuming (no afk gathering any more).

and final thought - if game can remember how much stamina thousands of players had before server going down, please, make player city resources after server wake up at the same state as before down of the server.

make them look for resources around hamlet, not only within.

@ 5%luck - hm, if there is tone of money (more than reagents for example) and everyone is willing to buy than prices should go high, but they are very low right now. What about not allowing NPC to sell reagents? maybe this could help?

@ keeperofstars - I dont like speeding up gathering idea. i like the idea of teamwork needed to colect more resources.

[schlock]

To solve the whole problem speed up gathering a shit ton. I mean it is fucking stupid to spend nearly 20 some minutes to fully tap one node.

Base player 10 seconds per tap X 50 = 500/60(seconds) = 8 minutes if you hit every one. If you miss at the average of 50% fail rate that is 16 minutes to get
50 wood which makes 10 timber which makes nothing.

So then you go out and do iron get those 10 ingots yeah you can now make 200 arrows after farming for 40 minutes, add on empty node hitting and its down to about an hour. Or if you trying to make a R10 2handed axe you can make 2 axes an hour roughly. Woot and Yeah.

Instead speed that shit way up like 5 seconds tops on gather at start, then as you get your mastery it goes down to about 1.5 seconds per gather. Leave the respawn timers the same, this means the crafter can make tons more resources without losing so many brain cells. All the city resources will be tapped very quickly, forcing more players outside of cities for everything.
Items would be cheaper and easier to come by so more people would wear gear. If I could spend an hour and make a full suite of plate I would wear it. I however am not going to spend 4 hours making full plate and then go wear it.
I will spend the 200 gold and make a full set of studded or leather, and go from there.

Would greatly help DF. Then put armor drops on mobs, and I mean lots of armor drops on mobs, I want to see at least 1 piece per kill. The random durability is fine, I don't mind seeing crappy durability, but I want to be able to go out and get my armor from some mobs. So I can fight harder mobs which gives me money to pay for the crafters to make me the good shit.

Do those 2 things and DF will be much better off.

I completely agree with this. You could actually spend time playing the game.

[keeperofstars]

adding more resources - great idea, but much more time consuming for devs, than just marking resoursec in cities as a "no no" (Breaking the law will cost you being gray for 10 sec - this is already implemented).

we were talking about economic issues, and what about filling the world? Making harvesters go out will make many more activities nessesery. Groups of farmers (for savety), maybe even player guards near spots. And many more will be going on around you, after leaving the city.

and finaly - not everyone will gather resources now, since it would be time consuming (no afk gathering any more).

@ 5%luck - hm, if there is tone of money (more than reagents for example) and everyone is willing to buy than prices should go high, but they are very low right now. What about not allowing NPC to sell reagents? maybe this could help?

@ keeperofstars - I dont like speeding up gathering idea. i like the idea of teamwork needed to colect more resources.

Problem is I have tried to do teamwork in gathering outside of city, mainly cause I live at a hamlet that gets lots of visitors. To be effective you need to have lots of resources close together, and or all hitting same node. This really starts to trim down the amount you get. Also puts you at much higher risks. For example you take a group of 6 guys out, you spread out just a bit to all hit a tree next to each other but a different one so you can all get resources. Or even the same one that is now 6 tree sounds coming from the group. The much larger 10 man pk group in full plate with R50 weapons comes by and rolls you all. Laughing and enjoying your hard work. Since you spent all the time getting 6 people together, and heading to a place to get resources from you all don't want to leave with just 50 ore. No instead you want to push your luck a bit more and get more resources which makes you a larger target. Not that I don't like the idea, but in DF it just hurts you more so at times than it helps. There have been numerous times when I have seen a gathering group while out exploring. I throw up a group of clanmates, put a waypoint they all come in, while I keep a hidden eye on them. Once about 15 of us are at the group we ambush them and walk away with more ore than we can carry at times.

Now if you could go out and get your fill of ore etc and get back to town within an hour or so. More people would do group gathering. Instead though you have to spend 30 mins getting the group setup, 10 minutes getting to resources cause someone is for sure to not have a mount or not want to risk one. Start gathering and as stated before spend an hour gathering making lots of noise, so each member can go back and make 3 pieces of armor, weapons or arrows.
All for 2 hours of work.

Risk vs reward is just not there.

[Bloodgloom]

I agree, set all the in city resources to "always empty". Farming anything in this game without risk is not a decent game mechanic.

Also, I imagine that if there are any "gold sellers" in this game, resources farmed from cities is probably where they earn the bulk of their proceeds.

[Sinny]

resource nodes in cities are pretty useless anyway, they are farmed to death and after that the only proper time you can use them is after a reset.

Herb nodes should be specialised, their should be differant variants of wood, Special ore nodes and regular ore nodes need to be located on differant parts of the map.

this game has the most bland, un-enjoyable way of gathering materials which doesn't promote pvp, exploration etc. It's mind numbing. who in their right mind is going to sit in front of a screen and watch their character gather wood for an hour for 20 minutes use worth of arrows.

It's pathetic.

basic nodes need to be in cities, for arrows basic trees (anything that is crafted ie boats should require Oak beams from special tree)

Herbs like Mandrake should be the only herb you can gather in cities, anything else should require you to go out and find resources.

I'm not sure how Ore does, but specialisation and resource points depending on rarity should be put in.

I want to go exploring for exotic herbs, not gathering off the same resources for the rest of the fucking day.

[Lord Zeb]

Also think it is pretty silly that one can chop wood and mine stone and iron ore within city limits. Herb bushes are ok, but...

Also think that it would be better if nodes where differentiated, so there would be Wood of different qualities, like the q1-q5 levels of Enchanting materials. And that each tree and each herb node only grant one type of herb... with the addition of Mandrake and Steedgrass as Rare drops, and Resin for all types of trees.

Would also nice to put out "Natural City Nodes", such as Mines, Quarries, Groves and abandoned Farms out in the wilderness. Would be good PvP hotspots, to pull away heat from the NPC cities. If one go there to gather resources, bring some friends to guard your back.:ninja:

[Neurotiker]

I agree to a certain point with the OP that gathering resources within the protective area of guard towers is problematic. However, clans with access to a player city or a hamlet have not only protected access to resources, but also access to rare materials. Taking away resources from noob cities would further increase the penalties of not having access to a player infrastructure.
Maybe relocating resource nods to the outer edges of protected areas might be a good compromise.

[keeperofstars]

I agree, set all the in city resources to "always empty". Farming anything in this game without risk is not a decent game mechanic.

Also, I imagine that if there are any "gold sellers" in this game, resources farmed from cities is probably where they earn the bulk of their proceeds.

They would just use a hamlet / cities resources instead.

Get up to 3 per hit.

[sOultOsqUeeze]

Risk vs reward is just not there.

There is no reward, because prices are so freaking low. And they are going down constantly. Resources are so cheap, that everybody has simply buying them for maxing their skill. All i see in Trade chanell is "Bulk". Only prices of metal are still not bad. Maybe because you cannot mine metal for hours under tower protection? And of course because it is used often. But guess what, if getting resources will be harder, maybe there will be interests in all kind of armors & weapons? Maybe iron should be harder to get?

(And there are many ways to minimalize risk od group harvesting - for example you can have one person returning periodicaly to nearest bank with what you have harvested. More often - lesser risk - but this is not thread about group harvesting, so lets leave it)


@ Marxon_VG "The issue is demand, not the supply or the ability to harvest the supply in safety. " - I disagree. What about mounts? Prices are going constatly down. Demand is small, true, but its small BECAUSE you can harvest steedgrasses in safety.

@Neurotiker - Thats why i was sugetsting not renewing resources in clan cities after server restart.

@Sinny - I love the idea of "oak tree". maybe you should start new suggestion thread?

To be true, my main goal isnt healing economic in DFO, i dont even know how could it work what i am sugetsting, thats why i am asking you.
my main goal, is to move players from cities to the world.

Thank You for all your responsences. :)

[Xann25]

Removing mines etc from player owned cities/hamlets would be a step in the right direction. Clan city resources and bloodwalls are a big reason the lands are usualy empty.

[Vintril]

The other issue here is the ability to buy must resources from vendors at fixed prices why skin a cat if you can buy its leather cheaply at the vendor

[Lord Zeb]

Because skinning the cat is free?;)

Buying things in shops can be seen as a way to control price levels and inflation. Now the question is, do we want AV to control this or not? Even Iron prices is controlled by the Weapon and Armour prices in shops, as Component cost for making a weapon would be over the price one buy the item in the shop, no one would want to buy them; no one would even want to make their own; and then no one would want to buy the Iron, and Iron prices would drop. (As only Rank 0-20 is buyable in NPC City shops, the rare metals do not have the same control feature, why they costs 600 or 900 per Ingot.)

After analyzing the prices of items, I would assume that the price of Wood and Iron Ingots by AV was thought to both be around 8 Gold, with some leeway for Crafters to be able to make some money competing with NPC sellers. But as it is now, Wood is safely gathered in considerable amounts under Tower protection, hence the difference in price. So one cannot say that it is an exact instrument until it is nailed on the specific commodity:
If Iron Ingots were sold in stores for 10 Gold each, the market price would drop from the 12,5 Gold we have now, to 9,5 overnight.

[keeperofstars]

Because skinning the cat is free?;)

Buying things in shops can be seen as a way to control price levels and inflation. Now the question is, do we want AV to control this or not? Even Iron prices is controlled by the Weapon and Armour prices in shops, as Component cost for making a weapon would be over the price one buy the item in the shop, no one would want to buy them; no one would even want to make their own; and then no one would want to buy the Iron, and Iron prices would drop. (As only Rank 0-20 is buyable in NPC City shops, the rare metals do not have the same control feature, why they costs 600 or 900 per Ingot.)

After analyzing the prices of items, I would assume that the price of Wood and Iron Ingots by AV was thought to both be around 8 Gold, with some leeway for Crafters to be able to make some money competing with NPC sellers. But as it is now, Wood is safely gathered in considerable amounts under Tower protection, hence the difference in price. So one cannot say that it is an exact instrument until it is nailed on the specific commodity:
If Iron Ingots were sold in stores for 10 Gold each, the market price would drop from the 12,5 Gold we have now, to 9,5 overnight.

Wood is only cheap not cause it's gathered in safety, but cause there is a 5k to 1 ratio of it. Ok a bit of overstatement, but for every 1 iron node there is at least 30 tree nodes. Since people want to get stats up they go cut wood cause it is quick to find a full node, drops resin which is needed / used with mana to stam which removes cool down, and allows the person to gain stats faster. So the whole server is farming wood for stat gains, not the resources so the market is being flooded cause the best way to gain STR is to farm trees. Has zero to do with safety in farming trees inside of towns. Has to do with supply of full nodes which can be used for stat gains. I know tons of people that log in buy 10 axes, head out to a remote area and pretty much afk farm trees till they are just shy of burdened. Then they take it back to town and sell / process it to be sold, so they can buy more axes to use for stat gain. If they are killed they don't care they were out 100 gold, worth of logging axes. However they got stat gains.

Trying to do that with ore becomes a waste of time, cause you tend to be in a hot spot area of pkers, and tend to be a larger target for them.

As far as herbs the market is flooded cause once again everyone is out trying to get steedgrass so they are harvesting like mad throught the world trying to get steedgrass. Since most have no use of the herbs that drop they try to sell them cheap so they can off load them for some cash.

So it has nothing to do with resources in the city or not, it's about what the server as a group is doing, and most are all farming trees for resin / stat gains.

[sOultOsqUeeze]

Wood is only cheap not cause it's gathered in safety, but cause there is a 5k to 1 ratio of it. Ok a bit of overstatement, but for every 1 iron node there is at least 30 tree nodes. Since people want to get stats up they go cut wood cause it is quick to find a full node, drops resin which is needed / used with mana to stam which removes cool down, and allows the person to gain stats faster. So the whole server is farming wood for stat gains, not the resources so the market is being flooded cause the best way to gain STR is to farm trees. Has zero to do with safety in farming trees inside of towns. Has to do with supply of full nodes which can be used for stat gains. I know tons of people that log in buy 10 axes, head out to a remote area and pretty much afk farm trees till they are just shy of burdened. Then they take it back to town and sell / process it to be sold, so they can buy more axes to use for stat gain. If they are killed they don't care they were out 100 gold, worth of logging axes. However they got stat gains.

Trying to do that with ore becomes a waste of time, cause you tend to be in a hot spot area of pkers, and tend to be a larger target for them.


PKers dont give a f* if you are chopping wood or mining. If you are not under tower protection you will die if you are not prepared. Logging is used for stat gains couse its safe (there are a lot of trees under towers protection)! What is your point? If you could not chop w00d in cities you will stop playing, couse you want to keep your stats gain in easiest way possible? I cant underst you. Can you explain why removing harvesting from tower range would be bad?

As far as herbs the market is flooded cause once again everyone is out trying to get steedgrass so they are harvesting like mad throught the world trying to get steedgrass. Since most have no use of the herbs that drop they try to sell them cheap so they can off load them for some cash.


And now i think you are just trolling. :)
"harvesting like mad throught the world"??? where have you seen people harvesting herbs outside the tower range? oh, you mean two steps from tower range (if there is no more left under the tower range) - this is this "world", right?

So it has nothing to do with resources in the city or not, it's about what the server as a group is doing, and most are all farming trees for resin / stat gains.

Hm, you have your opinion, i have mine, i completly disagree with you.

EDIT: and i think removing reagents and materials from vendors will be good. let the market dictate the prices. It supposed to be a free world.

[Sanshi44]

The market dictates price.

Look at iron, it is still extremely expensive compared to the other resources and it can be mined in safety just like the resources you are complaining about. Why? Because people need a ton of it.

What's the real problem?

The issue is demand, not the supply or the ability to harvest the supply in safety. Currently no one is making ships because they are broken, but rest assured that when they make ships faster than a sprinting swimmer and unable to be hack-stolen, you will see a major increase in demand for wood.

On the other hand, there isn't much I can say for herbs... they are just cheap and I think that is alright. People simply aren't chugging potions fast enough, or maybe it should take more herbs per pot. Personally I think it is fine.

Iron price also more expensive due to all the resouces u can build in player cities the mines are the rarer of all of them and farm being most common.

[Esturk]

The only reason I gather shit is because I can do it afk or semi afk in town.

[scyatic]

They should get rid of all resources in cities, mines, farms, etc included. They should make mines that you have to fight over to claim like Shadowbane.

[Lord Zeb]

Wood is only cheap not cause it's gathered in safety, but cause there is a 5k to 1 ratio of it. Ok a bit of overstatement, but for every 1 iron node there is at least 30 tree nodes. Since people want to get stats up they go cut wood cause it is quick to find a full node, drops resin which is needed / used with mana to stam which removes cool down, and allows the person to gain stats faster. So the whole server is farming wood for stat gains, not the resources so the market is being flooded cause the best way to gain STR is to farm trees. Has zero to do with safety in farming trees inside of towns. Has to do with supply of full nodes which can be used for stat gains.
I think if one would make Wood come in q1-q5 sorts, and that one would have to have a certain Logging skill level to cut it, then I believe that prices would change. As well as that low-level loggers would need to look for longer to find full nodes, and high-level loggers would look for longer trying to find high-level woods. That might make Timber and Wood (especially high quality Timber & Wood) more valuable.

I know tons of people that log in buy 10 axes, head out to a remote area and pretty much afk farm trees till they are just shy of burdened. Then they take it back to town and sell / process it to be sold, so they can buy more axes to use for stat gain. If they are killed they don't care they were out 100 gold, worth of logging axes. However they got stat gains.

Trying to do that with ore becomes a waste of time, cause you tend to be in a hot spot area of pkers, and tend to be a larger target for them.

There may be PKers everywhere and they do not care much whether you are logging or mining. I think the main reason why they don't care if they are PK'd or not is that the Timber is worth less than Ore. And that it is cost free to die, if you're naked, not to mention you are even skilling when getting killed.

Maybe it is one reason why miners are more in jeopardy though: Mining might make more sound than Logging, so people find them easier.:ninja:

As far as herbs the market is flooded cause once again everyone is out trying to get steedgrass so they are harvesting like mad throught the world trying to get steedgrass. Since most have no use of the herbs that drop they try to sell them cheap so they can off load them for some cash.

So it has nothing to do with resources in the city or not, it's about what the server as a group is doing, and most are all farming trees for resin / stat gains.

I harvest Herbs not only for Steedgrass, but also for the great Wisdom gains. (Herbing and Fishing is great for such, and Herb spawns are easy to find and herbs lighter to carry.) I admit that I have been herbing a lot semi-AFK in cities, but I have also herbed some outside of my Hamlet, which has been quite PK-free... which the Hamlet itself hasn't. (Farm is nearly almost out of resources anyway...) So, there are probably a few Herbers, not to mention Fishers, out there as well, together with the Loggers, for Wisdom Stat gain.

[Elemental]

Removing the resources in the cities might even fix the Gold Selling and Reagents selling issue.

Another solution: The deeper you are in agon, the richer the resource nodes are.

[smeagollum]

/signed

[jpeeps100]

Wow, lots of hate for city node users. The time consumption to harvest the nodes in a tower city vs the amount of money you can get from hunting isn't equal. You can get much more money from hunting. The people who stay in town and harvest are either pure crafters, who prefer to harvest and craft vs fighting, and alt accounts.

I think if you took them out of the game you would have less product on the market, increase prices on existing market, then you people would be back here complaining that the gold cost for a rank X item was just too high. (like you already do)

You whine to whine, not to fix anything. Your ideas are bad on this one. Your real reason to complain is you want to kill the harvesters so you can get larger amount of resources faster, so that is why you want them out of town. Pick on someone tougher like a major alliance clan and kill their macroers if you want big loot, just don't be such a large bunch of sissies afraid to attack someone with skill. That would solve your problem.

Oh wait, then you would complain that towns with towers are unfair because they can sit in them while you get shot by the tower. Nevermind the assload of work it took to build the town, everything should be easier for you. Sad bunch of people who are afraid to fight and to lazy to work. Go play another game.

[sOultOsqUeeze]

Wow, lots of hate for city node users. The time consumption to harvest the nodes in a tower city vs the amount of money you can get from hunting isn't equal. You can get much more money from hunting. The people who stay in town and harvest are either pure crafters, who prefer to harvest and craft vs fighting, and alt accounts.

I think if you took them out of the game you would have less product on the market, increase prices on existing market, then you people would be back here complaining that the gold cost for a rank X item was just too high. (like you already do)

You whine to whine, not to fix anything. Your ideas are bad on this one. Your real reason to complain is you want to kill the harvesters so you can get larger amount of resources faster, so that is why you want them out of town. Pick on someone tougher like a major alliance clan and kill their macroers if you want big loot, just don't be such a large bunch of sissies afraid to attack someone with skill. That would solve your problem.

Oh wait, then you would complain that towns with towers are unfair because they can sit in them while you get shot by the tower. Nevermind the assload of work it took to build the town, everything should be easier for you. Sad bunch of people who are afraid to fight and to lazy to work. Go play another game.

You know my real reason. I posted few times in this thread why i think it is good to remove harvesting from cities and tower areas. And im not whining or camplaining - this is place, when i can put my "suggestions".
Im not sure why you call me a sad man who is afraid to fight and to lazy to work.
My intension whas not to make you feel in any way uncomfortable (cant see another reason for your attack).

[Ranana_sida]

And how do you gain the resources? Thats the question.
I like this game because new players has equal chances to old players and because it is real time not tick or turn based.

[amah]

Wow, lots of hate for city node users. The time consumption to harvest the nodes in a tower city vs the amount of money you can get from hunting isn't equal. You can get much more money from hunting. The people who stay in town and harvest are either pure crafters, who prefer to harvest and craft vs fighting, and alt accounts.

I think if you took them out of the game you would have less product on the market, increase prices on existing market, then you people would be back here complaining that the gold cost for a rank X item was just too high. (like you already do)

You whine to whine, not to fix anything. Your ideas are bad on this one. Your real reason to complain is you want to kill the harvesters so you can get larger amount of resources faster, so that is why you want them out of town. Pick on someone tougher like a major alliance clan and kill their macroers if you want big loot, just don't be such a large bunch of sissies afraid to attack someone with skill. That would solve your problem.

Oh wait, then you would complain that towns with towers are unfair because they can sit in them while you get shot by the tower. Nevermind the assload of work it took to build the town, everything should be easier for you. Sad bunch of people who are afraid to fight and to lazy to work. Go play another game.

wow there are some smart people left. for the rest of you reading this thread.read this post a dozen more times.thank you

[wicky]

All resources should be outside the city, there should be no city nodes, not to mention the clan nodes or quary. (or how u call it)

This is not because i want to (i do harvest in city's to) but it is because it give's the game a tactical advantage. And we should use that advantage to improve the game.

Rare resources should be found in the wilderness. Maybe not all over the world equally but in some stratigic rare metal/herb/wood spots (gives a reason to fight for). Where u have a change to gather some rare resource at a node.
In a way just like in the real world some places have specific kind of rare resource and some places have other.
The normal resources can be found all over the world, only in the wilderness ofcourse.