overkill?

[Curiouscat]

DFO has unparalleled freedom and choice of skills and that's good thing but all good in moderation and when I look at all multitude of skills and skills within skills on one hand and total absence of any skill/attr management and basic information on other hand....

[Koribundar]

Holy hell, you wrote that like a 14 year old girl would say it.

Either way, what the hell are you talking about?

[alako]

Holy hell, you wrote that like a 14 year old girl would say it.

Either way, what the hell are you talking about?

lol sexist much :P

[Curiouscat]

Either way, what the hell are you talking about?
Game is very complex on one hand and has no info on other hand.
For example old UO had much less skills/attributes, multiple char but had better game information and they add skill/attrib management tools
Other template driven games are simpler and easy to respec and well documented

DFO unlike any other game I know has only one char, no skill/attrib management and no information of any kind but vague promise "no gimping"
At what point soft caps are kicking in? What the hard cap for attributes?
Is it 100 for each? Is it race based as starter attr? Is pool limit like in UO? What the decoy rate?
In UO before skil/attrib management tool char building and balancing has tricky and gimping was common for newbies. Sure in UO you also could re-make char BUT sometimes it was easier to erase char and start all over again to take advantage of soft cap.

It can easily happen here. I see a lot of players taken every single profession to be self sufficient in start, taken every single skill that become open.
Is it possible they set themselves for nasty surprise when they jump over soft cap and pick really hard and expensive skill? Is it possible that people who pick archery and concentrate on leveling it first set up for huge gimp?
When they train archery and get dex to 100 and then level magic or melee they lose dex to new int or str?

Imagine that.

Template building is important part of game it could make or break game enjoyment and IMHO we dont have enough info to make intelligent choices hence we can't enjoy game fully.

IMHO AV ought to give more info about skills and attributes such as soft and hard limits. How many points each skill contribute to pool.

[Sarphus]

I like being able to do everything. It lets you play the whole game instead of just playing a class.

[Curiouscat]

I like being able to do everything. It lets you play the whole game instead of just playing a class.
Great!
So I take it you level up all the gathering, craft? Magic, archery, 1h/2h and parry? All movement skills. Resist? Greater magic?
Chances are when you will be able to learn one the magic school you will be over soft cap and pay double or triple price for leveling it. Worse it will take triple time.
Now would not you like to know and plan in advance what skill you afford to learn before you hit cap?

[nizzie]

Great!
So I take it you level up all the gathering, craft? Magic, archery, 1h/2h and parry? All movement skills. Resist? Greater magic?
Chances are when you will be able to learn one the magic school you will be over soft cap and pay double or triple price for leveling it. Worse it will take triple time.
Now would not you like to know and plan in advance what skill you afford to learn before you hit cap?

there isn't even a soft cap.. that's the sad thing

[Curiouscat]

there isn't even a soft cap.. that's the sad thing
Says who? Link?

[Junkaboy]

I believe the creators of the game intended people to play as they wish (thus the "sandbox" style...), without making their skills the #1 priority. As a reflex of your playing style, you'd see your skills increase overtime.

I honestly think this is pretty utopic... we all (95% at least) got that XP bar (Damn EQ fault...) inprinted in our subconscient, and we wont rest until we see it filled all the way up.
Also when you get hit by 34dmg to the face you forget everything about casual playing and rush out looking for those damn macros/scripts/etc.


About the "lack of information", to be honest I think the game creators also intended it to be this way. Since DFO was conceived as a "niche game", they thought that this "niche players" would be more pleased in exploring and discovering the gameworld themselfs rather then have it 100% spoon fed.
I am sure I prefer it this way, I enjoy the steep learning curve in a new game.

[CanisRex]

Well said, Junkaboy.

I can't quite tell whether the OP is complaining (I think he is) or just emo-spewing as was suggested by Koribundar.

But Darkfall almost unique in today's MMO market. Less hand holding, less feedback, less hugs and love and balance and equality.

Reminds me of this other MMO I play. It has FULL LOOT, Perma death, no rule book, every skill is learned through use, no classes, zero lag with almost 4 billion players on a single server...and you can only have 1 character per account.

[Curiouscat]

I believe the creators of the game intended people to play as they wish (thus the "sandbox" style...), without making their skills the #1 priority. As a reflex of your playing style, you'd see your skills increase overtime.

I honestly think this is pretty utopic... we all (95% at least) got that XP bar (Damn EQ fault...) inprinted in our subconscient, and we wont rest until we see it filled all the way up.
Also when you get hit by 34dmg to the face you forget everything about casual playing and rush out looking for those damn macros/scripts/etc.


About the "lack of information", to be honest I think the game creators also intended it to be this way. Since DFO was conceived as a "niche game", they thought that this "niche players" would be more pleased in exploring and discovering the gameworld themselfs rather then have it 100% spoon fed.
I am sure I prefer it this way, I enjoy the steep learning curve in a new game.
Simple info as skill, attrib, limits, soft caps are not in category of "game world discovery". Imagine surprise of crafter who master all gathering and craft and discover that he gimp himself in pvp and with every point in pvp he risk to lose crafting points and to keep all together he needs to use all his skill every hr. Surprise! You are over soft cap and now every point cost you 10x!
Or surprise! There is no soft cap! You could be sufficient from day one and all mats that you sold or exchange are total lost! You could obtain profession for yourself! Or you are die hard archer and you level up archery first. Surprise! There are attrib limit on race and you would be better of with elf not dwarf or alfar.
Discovery!
In one of the interview AV state that different profession contribute differently to skill pool for example 100 fishing counts only for 20.
How do we suppose to discover this? I dont see basic info as spoon feeding.

[Durindana]

Discovery!
In one of the interview AV state that different profession contribute differently to skill pool for example 100 fishing counts only for 20.
How do we suppose to discover this? I dont see basic info as spoon feeding.

all good points. I think the appropriate generalization is that Av basically have never known wtf they were doing, and "we want you to discover!" is a great cover for "we're f'ing clueless!"

[Curiouscat]

Well said, Junkaboy.

I can't quite tell whether the OP is complaining (I think he is) or just emo-spewing as was suggested by Koribundar.

But Darkfall almost unique in today's MMO market. Less hand holding, less feedback, less hugs and love and balance and equality.

Reminds me of this other MMO I play. It has FULL LOOT, Perma death, no rule book, every skill is learned through use, no classes, zero lag with almost 4 billion players on a single server...and you can only have 1 character per account.

LOL
I actually agree. Yes Junkaboy has good points and argue well... unlike you or that moron Koribundar.
Am I complaining about full loot or free will? Or skill system? Or one char per server? I'm just saying that Limits on skill/attrib and soft/hard cap are basic info. It is not "game world discovery" and telling about numbers is not spoon feeding.

[Emitai]

i m glad i don't have to loose time changing character to do all i wanna do
i usually want, as some other said, to explore every possibilities of the game
and with this "one character" solution, you have a system of reputation in the game, which lead that you have to take care of your action
(i don't talk about the rich who pay multiple account)

[Curiouscat]

I have an impression that you misunderstood me.

I'm all for system of skills/one char/free will etc. My problem is basic game information.

I just argue that DFO is actually much more complex than any other game I know off (and I have been playing a lot of games) but basic game info non existent.
I'm saying that info as limits/caps is not "game world discovery"

[Delolith]

edit-double post ftl

[Delolith]

But Darkfall almost unique in today's MMO market. Less hand holding, less feedback, less hugs and love and balance and equality.

I really agree and support a player unfriendly hardcore game like old MMOs were as you say (/sigh). However, I do not agree that balance and equality as you say lays in everyone being able to do everything.

This game has a flawed balance between its different aspects. I will not argue here about wanting to play a pure mage or a pure melee or a pure archer (although he can survive much better than the other 2). I am talking about making a melee/ranged hybrid without having to invest on all skills of the game for the simple fact of flavor and RPG (that doesn't have to do with talking in character and shit and pretending to actually BE your character...but the feeling of unique character and something other than pixels named "Ifuckyou Hard")....since this game IS an MMORPG even if people tend to forget it these days or for the simple fact they are FPSers (and I do not say this in a good way...look the mention of Ifuckyou Hard name and you will possibly understand if you are an old MMOer) and have absolutely no fucking clue what character development/customization and role means.

-This game does not provide you that for the simple reason that different aspects are unbalanced one way or another. I do not say that archery is stronger than magic (which it is at early stages by far)....but archery provides you better results than magic very VERY fast. That means that more people will pick that up.

-Why wear light armor....you want to be a light scout?...well you better wear scale then. Light armor has no place in this game....unless you cannot pay for a more expenssive one. At least this is how it is atm since heavy armor has all the plus without any negatives (unless money is a limiting factor for you).

-You imagined your character to be a fast killer wielding dagger slashing left and right with an uncanny speed? Well you are fucked...At least they have improved this feature with the last patch.

All in all...this game doesn't provide you with choises for the simple fact that these choises have different potentiality. It is in human nature to pick the most effective thing and that means the more potent...or the one that gives him the fastest results...or a combination of the two. All these things need change unless we want to end up looking at ourselves on every single character we encounter...and that is one of the biggest let downs for people playing an RPG game.

[Ooli]

you are right there are some things missing ingame, but i hope they are just missing, because they can only be balanced down the road as ppl play it.

in theory most things might look superp but when you play it you find one flaw after the other(remembering a game where u just needed one early spell and with it you could spam yourself to the end of the game and even kill the endboss with it).

As in MMOs there is the advantage to be able to change things after release and adopt it to player needs, i hope after some complains and good suggestions they will make it possible for ppl to play the role they want to.

i play a (nearly)pure mage, but use cloth armor because it has not much less damage or reduced runspeed, ...(to be honest i didn't notice any noteworthy diffenence regardless of the stats in the playerstats-screen with should indicate a malus)
When my tailoring is high enough i will switch to cloth for sure, as i don't like wearing armor, might get me easlily killed but i like to play that way and hopefully one day i have to balance pros and cons for myself it the loose of something is worth the higher armorrating(regardless of maxed armorcasting or similar skill). Still hoping for enchantable LRC or LMC stats on clothes and similar ones for other armor types to get ppl to use it as it fitts to their playstyle(maybe speed increase for lighter armor only or less stamina drain when sprinting, ...).

one nice thing when you aren't given much infos about the game you are playing is, its challenging to find some things for your own and if you take the wrong path someday and end up having fun, why should you be angry than.

[Attas]

Well said, Junkaboy.

Reminds me of this other MMO I play. It has FULL LOOT, Perma death, no rule book, every skill is learned through use, no classes, zero lag with almost 4 billion players on a single server...and you can only have 1 character per account.


wat gaem is dat?