Who said mages suck at PVP?

[Kzuri]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-0t18M9DvM&fmt=22

60-70 damage per hit with an unmaxed spell doesn't seem sucky to me :rolleyes:

The spell was pretty much impossible to dodge too -- the aoe was just so huge, I couldn't evade it nomatter how much crazy bunnyhopping I did :p

I think we're gonna see alot more mages appearing in PVP pretty soon. About time too!

---

part 2, the rematch :p:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0uIMqMm-MI&fmt=22

we had a few more duels

yes, I know i'm terrible at aiming. sue me. :<

[Atnas]

No one did. It's going to be fantastic when melee is useless.

[Tryptic08]

you should have done some drive-by whirl winds imo, and probably started using your transfers :P

(unless it wasnt an actual duel, i noticed you were both pretty much naked)

[Kzuri]

I probably should've tried to LoS him and use stam2hp, but with the damage he was putting out I don't think it would've made much difference tbh :p

[PuppiesT_T]

I probably should've tried to LoS him and use stam2hp, but with the damage he was putting out I don't think it would've made much difference tbh :p

Actually, he was probably fairly low on mana, if you were to run him oom, he would either have to health->mana or give up casting and switch to a bow.

[Kzuri]

Aye, he probably was, but I know he has 100 sharpshooter also. :p

I think that's gonna be a problem in the long run -- everyone is gonna have 100 melee mastery, 100 sharpshooter and 100 elemental magic. Everyone will be the same 'class'.

[DarKFoRcE31415]

my water magic is only at 63, but that doesnt really matter, there is no way he could have gotten me out of mana, shards only costs 14.5 mana for me (mana effiency in the 40s) and i have 249 mana.
it is actually not very good to jump against shards, because when you jump i just aim at the point where you will land and get a pretty safe hit in, which will also likely hit you in the back, and you can really afford me getting easy hits in because you are dead in 4-5 shots
the only time jumping is good is when you see the shards flying and you try to get away from it.

[Snowed]

Alls that guy does is cast spells at hintenfauall day

[Narcowski]

I still don't think water needed the nerf (he would have been hitting ~80s) :p

[DarKFoRcE31415]

I still don't think water needed the nerf (he would have been hitting ~80s) :p

i agree very much :>!

[Vanillamarine]

Whats the name of the spell and at what level was it?

[Narcowski]

Shards, from r50 Water. Looked like just under 50 ranks of it.

[Redemption]

I have 74 fire atm i cant wait to see the spell that i get at 75. I already drop mad bitchs with fireball

[Shaoz]

aoe magic = skill, amirite

Aye, he probably was, but I know he has 100 sharpshooter also. :p

I think that's gonna be a problem in the long run -- everyone is gonna have 100 melee mastery, 100 sharpshooter and 100 elemental magic. Everyone will be the same 'class'.

They won't be the same "class", they will have the same sharpshooter/melee mastery and different spells they use in elemental magic.

If you want clear and different classes go to a game that supports that kind of gameplay.

[DarKFoRcE31415]

Whats the name of the spell and at what level was it?

shards lvl 78

[FailFall]

no one ever said mages suck, they just take more to be competitive

archery, sharpshooter, veteran archer, spirit whatever (4 skills?)

magic requires you to grind up the primary schools as well as the spells themselves to be useful up to 15 skillsets :O

[Silent Death]

this game needs proper class's with some form of caps .. otherwise you are right everyone will have the same templates.

EVERYONE will have one form of 2h maxed as well as archery maxed

They will also have elemental magery maxed out!

Some idiot above me said people will have different elemental schools .. in fact they wont at all because the longer the game goes on the more people will realise exactly which elemental schools are the most powerful and will therefore train that one dropped any other ones previously trained!

But yeah i saw the potential of magery early on and knew it was only a matter of time before powerful mages came out and started dominating.. now imagine 5-6 players all running around hit for 80 per hit with decent AoE! Wow i cant wait :P

[[O]_Fawkes]

Yeah but you'll be macroing three days straight to get to that level.

Too much grind in this game to make something like that worth it.

[nizzie]

this game needs proper class's with some form of caps .. otherwise you are right everyone will have the same templates.

EVERYONE will have one form of 2h maxed as well as archery maxed

They will also have elemental magery maxed out!

Some idiot above me said people will have different elemental schools .. in fact they wont at all because the longer the game goes on the more people will realise exactly which elemental schools are the most powerful and will therefore train that one dropped any other ones previously trained!


true.. this really bugs me.. there's simply NO charm in all players having the same skills since there's actually quite a potential

[Shaoz]

EVERYONE will have one form of 2h maxed as well as archery maxed


not really... people will, but not everyone.

like I said before, if you want specific classes and limitations go play a game that supports it.

[KuraM]

with a better bow you would have won, you got him nearly dead.

edit: does shards have a cooldown?

[DarKFoRcE31415]

yes 2 seconds

[Liano]

maybe you had a crap bow, and she had a corpsecall :confused:

[fr0g]

magic = OP

should have to conserve your mana like in UO... not this spam your best spell BULLSHIT.

[Jorogos]

hopefully they will turn on the skill soft caps., and cause players to be more selective in what they skill up. I think it'll add some good variety to the game.

[Paganizer]

not really... people will, but not everyone.

like I said before, if you want specific classes and limitations go play a game that supports it.

You sir are clueless. Clone wars II coming to DF soon.

[Kinsari]

magic = OP

should have to conserve your mana like in UO... not this spam your best spell BULLSHIT.

You're either a troll or have never tried to use magic in PvP.

[kanon247]

You sir are clueless. Clone wars II coming to DF soon.

God forbid a game require players to know what to utilize and when, then force them to aim instead of a 95% percent chance to hit. I would rather everyone be the same and the winner is determined by how they play instead of what they play. It becomes a much easier task to balance spells in a open skill system because your aren't being forced to compare to 30,000 different builds. If you don't pick something up that is "overpowered" You only gimp yourself. The game isn't going to give you a handicap against certain people just because you don't want to use everything at your disposal.

[fa.Judge]

Comparing a corpse call to a starter bow?

All this video showed was a biased fight that was played at the advantage of the mage. The archer stayed close-mid range which allowed the mage a heavy advantage and didn't pressure between casts or attempt any form of tactic that would benefit him. And the mage STILL almost died.

Walk beside them, make them hit themselves as well as you... get some distance, make them try to snipe you with spells while you can easily hit them with arrows...

Stop trying to cry over magic.

[DarKFoRcE31415]

we had a couple more fights later (with banded and and better weapons) and i tried around a bit when to use shards best, and i had the best results when i just bowed him in medium to long rang and only used shards on short range.

[Benevolence]

Comparing a corpse call to a starter bow?

All this video showed was a biased fight that was played at the advantage of the mage. The archer stayed close-mid range which allowed the mage a heavy advantage and didn't pressure between casts or attempt any form of tactic that would benefit him. And the mage STILL almost died.

Walk beside them, make them hit themselves as well as you... get some distance, make them try to snipe you with spells while you can easily hit them with arrows...

Stop trying to cry over magic.

this.

in 1v1 magery sucks.... majorly.

however in massive battles firing off AoE's hhitting for 50 ish to the front into groups of people = lulz. god forbid that mage has height advantage

[PrimalSign]

magic = OP

should have to conserve your mana like in UO... not this spam your best spell BULLSHIT.

Wasn't UO famous for mana dump strategies?

[FailFall]

i agree. if you want to kill a mage, learn to kite.

he has 2 seconds between his spam cast, your arrows have no real CD aside from the nocking it, aiming, shooting.

lure him out from behind the trees, run from him till hes more in the open while 360 shooting. dont bunny hop till he casts, just keep your stamina/health up while you wear down his mana and get him where you can rape him.

[Viluin]

Yeah, I've seen some wicked spammable spells that by far surpass anything an archer is capable of. It's the wrong type of balance imo, making magic super hard to grind but better. They should both be similar in grind and in power, just different in actual use.

No one did. It's going to be fantastic when melee is useless.

It already is.

[Bamboopanda]

_Fawkes;3394064']Yeah but you'll be macroing three days straight to get to that level.

Too much grind in this game to make something like that worth it.

Just three days? WTF game do you think this is? Some carebear korean grinder? We are hardcore, it takes weeks/months to macro out going non stop 24/7 to get to that level. L2Play scrub.

/Or some such.

[Atnas]

It already is.

No, not yet. At least the grind has been decreased- but this type of "MAGIC SHOULD BE HARD TO GET AND THEREFORE BETTER" way of thinking instead of "MELEE, RANGED AND MAGIC SHOULD FILL DIFFERENT ROLES" creates an unbalanced game.

It was obvious.

[Hooligan.]

God forbid a game require players to know what to utilize and when, then force them to aim instead of a 95% percent chance to hit. I would rather everyone be the same and the winner is determined by how they play instead of what they play. It becomes a much easier task to balance spells in a open skill system because your aren't being forced to compare to 30,000 different builds. If you don't pick something up that is "overpowered" You only gimp yourself. The game isn't going to give you a handicap against certain people just because you don't want to use everything at your disposal.

try counter-strike :lmao:

[JDizzle]

the only way implementing caps would get my support is if we were allowed more then one character slot per account....

[Sanshi44]

archer was naked mage already has the advantage cause he doesnt need armor. ive been hit by arrows for 83 dmg in the back archery also alot faster to lvl over magic.

[Blaster]

archer was naked mage already has the advantage cause he doesnt need armor. ive been hit by arrows for 83 dmg in the back archery also alot faster to lvl over magic.

Yea I do that damage too, once per 300 arrows and I DONT know when exactly the surging comes, so basicly if it was 1v1 some pvp, you were just unlucky and the archer was so lucky...

[CSkydt]

Hopefully the caster wearing armor will make the spells useless

[Kzuri]

archer was naked mage already has the advantage cause he doesnt need armor. ive been hit by arrows for 83 dmg in the back archery also alot faster to lvl over magic.

we dueled some more in banded because of that, but then he takes less damage from my arrows and I take less damage from his magic too, so there aint really much of an advantage

uploaded a few of those rematches here for anyone thats interested:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0uIMqMm-MI&fmt=22

i really cant wait to get fireball now :p

[kanon247]

try counter-strike :lmao:

Try WoW. Hardy Har har, i am so clever (see what i did there?)
fucking douchebags.

[GrrDK]

Is it my laptop or do you guys lag alot when you play on the video? Its my parrents laptop so its prolly just that lol.

[Kzuri]

Is it my laptop or do you guys lag alot when you play on the video? Its my parrents laptop so its prolly just that lol.

yeh it lags when i play it on my laptop too :p

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0uIMqMm-MI&fmt=18

try that link instead

[GrrDK]

much better. thx m8

[dschingis]

best tactics against a caster is imo go melee and block his spells. aoe is large enough to hit the caster too for full dmg. while hes casting hit him with your weapon.

but i like the dmg output of mages. im going to level my firemagic now :D

[Kechop]

If you go into medium-range of a mage consider yourself pretty much fucked unless you got crazy reaction times and brainpower.

I can wreck 50s in your face and 31-35ish arcane damage with MMilish aoe range ( small cooldown though =( )

Besides that try Witchcraft ..

Str - 30
and other shit makes your dice roll go NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

[Cleaverr]

You're actually not bad at aiming at all, that was a good fight if the guy missed once more you probably would have had him but yea, a good mage will be unbeatable in the future I assume which is why people saying archery is overpowered are dumb.

Archery plateaus faster, and doesn't take as much time to level but once people start getting 75+ in elemental magic, they should be able to take most equally skilled archers.

And melee.. its only really effective in lagfest sieges if you have high skill, and even then aoe magic is probably preferable.

Also.. those spells do take a bit of mana so if you can run the guy low on mana he not only cant use his primary attack but he wont be able to heal up either.

[bongloads]

Was this made before the water nerf or after? my rank 50+ shards was doing 56-58 with my 45 in prenerf... wondering how much int this guy's got, maybe water maxed w/intensify?

[A-A]

That's crazy. If the mage had waited until he finished casting to come out from behind the tree (instead of coming out, spotting you, then casting) the fight would have been over much sooner.

[Kzuri]

Was this made before the water nerf or after? my rank 50+ shards was doing 56-58 with my 45 in prenerf... wondering how much int this guy's got, maybe water maxed w/intensify?

this was after the "nerf", and i think he got like 45 int and 63 water magic :P

[Dbz0604]

No one did. It's going to be fantastic when melee is useless.

Melee will never be useless and never shall!

[Izure]

Aye, he probably was, but I know he has 100 sharpshooter also. :p

I think that's gonna be a problem in the long run -- everyone is gonna have 100 melee mastery, 100 sharpshooter and 100 elemental magic. Everyone will be the same 'class'.

Sorry, but thats already a problem, WTB a patch that you can only set a certain amoun tof crafting/weapon magic skills up.
So you could have 75 pole arm 75 1h sword and 75 archery, but the masterys in each of those will be to 50 tops, and maybe have enough for like 50 on whirlwind.

[Kzuri]

well apparently there's supposed to be a skill decay... i not seen it yet though, and i have pretty high skills/masteries -- they really should get round to implementing it already

[JinxOcculte]

Nice, excellent duels man. Wish I had more time to play the game to get my skills up to comparative levels, though these videos definitely inspired me to stick with magic.

[magnumopus1337]

Nice, excellent duels man. Wish I had more time to play the game to get my skills up to comparative levels, though these videos definitely inspired me to stick with magic.

lol jinx

[JinxOcculte]

lol jinx
Oh hi there, I see you are forum stalking me. I may just return the favor. :p

[johnnyc3po]

Honestly, it's just a matter of time before they patch in skill decay. I definitely wouldn't bet that everyone will be 100 at everything.

[Zexlion]

Got a question,
I know the damage of the lvl 50 nukes in each elemental are a bit different but are the cooldowns all the same speed?

[AudreySherman]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-0t18M9DvM&fmt=22

60-70 damage per hit with an unmaxed spell doesn't seem sucky to me :rolleyes:

The spell was pretty much impossible to dodge too -- the aoe was just so huge, I couldn't evade it nomatter how much crazy bunnyhopping I did :p

I think we're gonna see alot more mages appearing in PVP pretty soon. About time too!

---

part 2, the rematch :p:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0uIMqMm-MI&fmt=22

we had a few more duels

yes, I know i'm terrible at aiming. sue me. :<

First of all, there is no bunnyhoping in this game. And never was. The thing you did was just basic suicide move. When you jump, you cant control it and it is easily expactable when and where you land on - thats the ideal situation for being hit. I am not saying you are noob, you have pretty nice BOW aim, but this was fatal fault.

Next, I dont like jump kiting in this game, its not even skill based, but none considers it as game exploit. I cant say its the exploit, but what I can say it is game damaging feature. There should be some serious penalty. Like when you jump with bow, you cant shoot or it would drain lots of stamina and your precision would be gone. It would work like AWP in Counter-strike without zoom and therefor, would be useful only to the very close combat. The same for magic, jump kiting wont be possible or with serious penalty - high stamina drain and lost of precision.


Sorry, I dont like to see untouchable mages against melees who hit you for 60 and there is nothing you can do.

[keeperofstars]

First of all, there is no bunnyhoping in this game. And never was. The thing you did was just basic suicide move. When you jump, you cant control it and it is easily expactable when and where you land on - thats the ideal situation for being hit. I am not saying you are noob, you have pretty nice BOW aim, but this was fatal fault.

Next, I dont like jump kiting in this game, its not even skill based, but none considers it as game exploit. I cant say its the exploit, but what I can say it is game damaging feature. There should be some serious penalty. Like when you jump with bow, you cant shoot or it would drain lots of stamina and your precision would be gone. It would work like AWP in Counter-strike without zoom and therefor, would be useful only to the very close combat. The same for magic, jump kiting wont be possible or with serious penalty - high stamina drain and lost of precision.


Sorry, I dont like to see untouchable mages against melees who hit you for 60 and there is nothing you can do.

mages not so bad, board and sword them, oh wait your 2hander sucks maybe that polearm not the best weapon?

Any time I go against a mage just shield them out of mana, wait for them to turn in panic and run, then bow their ass down, or return the favor with your own spells.

[AudreySherman]

mages not so bad, board and sword them, oh wait your 2hander sucks maybe that polearm not the best weapon?

Any time I go against a mage just shield them out of mana, wait for them to turn in panic and run, then bow their ass down, or return the favor with your own spells.

I use knives man, and yes, they are not definitelly the best, only the fact they drain same amount of stamina as other 2handers and blocks 30% less damage... skilled mage can deal backing damage with certain spells even if you are active blocking with your shield and poon you anyway.

[KuraM]

mages not so bad, board and sword them, oh wait your 2hander sucks maybe that polearm not the best weapon?

Any time I go against a mage just shield them out of mana, wait for them to turn in panic and run, then bow their ass down, or return the favor with your own spells.

my fire is only 27, my nuke is only 32 so not big splash, but whenever people start chain blocking vs me, i just switch to MM with the insane huge splash, and aim behind or beside you, so it bypasses your blocking. and if they switch, i just switch. combat is about being adaptible, not trading blows.

and once i get fireball, there will be no reason to go to MM, since the splash is bigger and ican just pwn your sorry ass anyhow.

some people catch on and start turning when i shoot though, so they block the splash, but defending 24/7 wont ever win you a 1on1.

[keeperofstars]

my fire is only 27, my nuke is only 32 so not big splash, but whenever people start chain blocking vs me, i just switch to MM with the insane huge splash, and aim behind or beside you, so it bypasses your blocking. and if they switch, i just switch. combat is about being adaptible, not trading blows.

and once i get fireball, there will be no reason to go to MM, since the splash is bigger and ican just pwn your sorry ass anyhow.

some people catch on and start turning when i shoot though, so they block the splash, but defending 24/7 wont ever win you a 1on1.

MM splash so small now it doesnt work that great for that technique, the larger fireball isn't an issue either, learn to step in front of the spell, not just run at the person, etc.

Learn to actually block the spell not just hit block spell.

So when you go to aim to my right and behind to hit with aoe, I step to the right and infront of your spells path, Get a full block.

Its called being a brave fighter and knowing a full block is important.

Now I agree its about being adaptive. But I just removed your magic, forcing you to melee, as arrows follow same fate, granted its a bitch with bunny hoping shoots.
Cause at that point its who has more pots / better food.

[ColonelTEE3]

Trying to time a block in time to "catch" a magic bolt requires a decent ping. Anyone on the west coast will be especially disadvantaged at this, as they are for many scenarios..

[rschanke]

Anyone who says magic sucks need to try fighting a 60+ arcane mage with wall of autowin. For all the wannabe mages out there - get this spell and you will never lose a 1v1 again.

That is all.

[FireBladeXL]

Comparing a corpse call to a starter bow?

All this video showed was a biased fight that was played at the advantage of the mage. The archer stayed close-mid range which allowed the mage a heavy advantage and didn't pressure between casts or attempt any form of tactic that would benefit him. And the mage STILL almost died.

Walk beside them, make them hit themselves as well as you... get some distance, make them try to snipe you with spells while you can easily hit them with arrows...

Stop trying to cry over magic.

If you're good and attacking, or your opponent is good and attacking you most battles will be this distance. Anyone that attempts to start a battle farther off is a joke, because the other person most likely is going to mount up and run away. Plus if you can't dodge arrows from far away then you need to check your vision or stop snorting so much powdered bleach.

[AudreySherman]

And thats the problem. Melee went to PvE shit where even there is useless, cos many ppl exploit mobs by archery and magic.

Thats just sad...

[Zerby]

I remember few months ago people were all spouting how Darkfall is just going to be a meleefest, where melee is the only option blaablaa...

Now archery has been the best choice for pretty long, and now magic is lifting it's head and starting to be really powerfull.

Great! :)

[KuraM]

MM splash so small now it doesnt work that great for that technique, the larger fireball isn't an issue either, learn to step in front of the spell, not just run at the person, etc.

Learn to actually block the spell not just hit block spell.

So when you go to aim to my right and behind to hit with aoe, I step to the right and infront of your spells path, Get a full block.

Its called being a brave fighter and knowing a full block is important.

Now I agree its about being adaptive. But I just removed your magic, forcing you to melee, as arrows follow same fate, granted its a bitch with bunny hoping shoots.
Cause at that point its who has more pots / better food.

you cant anticipate every shot, and MM splash is just fine the way it is, n fireball is apparently even bigger.

[Dread_Og]

mages not so bad, board and sword them, oh wait your 2hander sucks maybe that polearm not the best weapon?

Any time I go against a mage just shield them out of mana, wait for them to turn in panic and run, then bow their ass down, or return the favor with your own spells.

So you've never encountered a mage that at least has Ball Lightning from Air Magic? And why would they panic when they're out of mana...if they were able to grind up magic, then I'm sure they also have high archery.

[TheDna]

I m actually happy to hear that axes seem to be decent now, at least thats what Veni said after the fights.
All around, i think that Water should prolly get a little stamina drain buff and the air 50 nuke clearly needs a damage buff, either that or just nerf fireball on par with water and scale both down in damage a bit. But that would result in Magic being < Archery in 90% of the situations again so i guess buff water n air at least a little bit. Fireball is a pretty good option once you get good at aiming it.

[iddqd]

lol @ all these wow players who have no idea who skill-based games templates work. OMG EVERYONE IS GOING TO DO DA SAME FING. YOU SHOULD MAKE CLASSES SO WE CAN BE DIFFERENT.

there will be some templates that are highly effective. there will also be other templates smart players will work out that will exploit inevitable weaknesses in those templates. there will be other templates that other smart players will work out that exploit the inevitable weaknesses in THOSE templates and so and and so forth.

STOP FUCKING COMPLAINING YOU FUCKING WHINGERS.

[Delolith]

OMG EVERYONE IS GOING TO DO DA SAME FING.

Hmmm sorry but this phrase will make me pull out the trump card against "go back to wow" and say go back to counterstrike you effing monkey jumping arrow shooting hippy. It is nice to have first shooter elements in this game and twiched fight. But to not have diversity in an MMORPG is a genre breaking feature. This is FIRSTLY an MMORPG....with some first person shooter features....get it straight.

So as I said...go back to counterstrike. This phrase seems to represent much more the truth nowadays compared to "go back to WoW"...with the trash we see in these forums everyday.

[Suitepee]

Thanks for showcasing that Kzuri. I might as well abandon using my polearms in favour of playing 'Archers and Mages Online'. :D

[rosenrot]

Hmmm sorry but this phrase will make me pull out the trump card against "go back to wow" and say go back to counterstrike you effing monkey jumping arrow shooting hippy. It is nice to have first shooter elements in this game and twiched fight. But to not have diversity in an MMORPG is a genre breaking feature. This is FIRSTLY an MMORPG....with some first person shooter features....get it straight.

So as I said...go back to counterstrike. This phrase seems to represent much more the truth nowadays compared to "go back to WoW"...with the trash we see in these forums everyday.


If the game had classes, you'd just cry and whine about the ones you felt were overpowered.

It's better this way. By far.

[Supreme Kimone]

In all PvP games mages own, I doubt this one is much diff.

:sly:

[revenoff]

great duels

i gave up melee after dueling veni spellweaver. thx guis now i gotta hide in town macroing all day(and i thought i was done after archery, ha!)

[B. Greymoor]

Jeez guys this just how hardcore Darkfall is right? Now you have to grind for 50-80k arrows, then all the reagents to get to 75+ Water magic and you can finally PvP.
Not to mention you'll now have to fire 80k arrows and hit the target and also hit targets with the spells, no afk grinding that for you.

[virohex]

yeah. ranged unfortunately outweighs melee atm. sword/shield seems to be the best against arrows or direct damage... but as soon as a staff gets pulled out. bye bye. a couple of fireballs is generally enough to take out a banded melee player. unfortunately the +resistance enchants seem to achieve only a few points in damage reduction at best with a reasonably leveled enchanter (50+). and i don't believe it gets any better. though i'm willing to accept that a 10-15 points in damage reduction could be possible.. but no more under the current system. just means that someone with 250 health should survive 5 shots. but a 6th is normally the killer. if not less.

[naga_ownage]

Casting is the way to go in darkfall.

[McDoogs]

yeh it lags when i play it on my laptop too :p

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0uIMqMm-MI&fmt=18

try that link instead

bought character vs grinded character...glad to see the other guy is better