archery QQ

[Prettyface]

Hello, i've been playing the game for about 2 weeks now and would like to share my experience.

So far i've gotten a hang of the game pretty well, but one thing that i find so silly is archery.

I like archery, it is a good range weapon and fun to use but so many people use it in melee..
How is it that you do not allow strafe sprinting without slowing down, but you can jump in a circle and fire a spell or shoot an arrow without losing speed.
I thought it was about gameplay realism.

I tried this a few times myself and found that it is silly overpowered when i saw that arrows actually have a knockback.
After hours of skilling up my archery and trying to master the skill of "kiting" i started to realize how boring it was to play like this, i got terribly bored after kiting endless of newbies.

Was this really intended this way? I have found a mixture of archery and melee most fun but it always ends the same way...kiting.

In my personal oppinion people shouldnt be allowed to sprint jump and shoot like that.

Its already enough that archery has better damage and a knockback, it should be limited to range use.

[HauptmannHP]

Thread moved.

[Drifterx]

archery is so powerful right now because of the fact you can sprint and jump turn and just face melt melee. They don't need to make it any stronger or nerf it really at the moment. Archery is pretty fine as it is minus the variety of arrows/skills etc. But its early so more and more things will eventually get added.

[Olsen]

If someone is running away from you, while jumping turning shooting, couldn't you just shoot arrows at him back? Most of your hits would end up being to the back, while all of your opponents would be to the front.

[Drekor]

If someone is running away from you, while jumping turning shooting, couldn't you just shoot arrows at him back? Most of your hits would end up being to the back, while all of your opponents would be to the front.

Shhhh, don't tell them that :D

[Nicholai Pestot]

If someone is running away from you, while jumping turning shooting, couldn't you just shoot arrows at him back? Most of your hits would end up being to the back, while all of your opponents would be to the front.

I believe the crux of the OP's argument is that the only viable counter to arrows in the hands of someone who knows what they are doing is more arrows, making melee weapons rather pointless.

[KerplunkedX]

I believe the crux of the OP's argument is that the only viable counter to arrows in the hands of someone who knows what they are doing is more arrows, making melee weapons rather pointless.If you had a good brain you could parry the arrows and that'd drain his or her stamina, then predict their pattern of movement and you'll get some free shots in their back.

[Makestro]

If you had a good brain you could parry the arrows and that'd drain his or her stamina, then predict their pattern of movement and you'll get some free shots in their back.

the point is in order to play effective you have to use ranged way more often then melee.

[Nicholai Pestot]

If you had a good brain you could parry the arrows and that'd drain his or her stamina, then predict their pattern of movement and you'll get some free shots in their back.

and this stops melee attacks being worthless how?

[Kain119]

and this stops melee attacks being worthless how?

Because if you are straight melee (not that anyone is that stupid but) and you run into someone with a bow and some distance on you, the fact is your probably gonna get kited down and killed before your melee weapon does its job.

[Nicholai Pestot]

Because if you are straight melee (not that anyone is that stupid but) and you run into someone with a bow and some distance on you, the fact is your probably gonna get kited down and killed before your melee weapon does its job.

If your straight melee and run into someone point blank, the arrow knockback makes sure that you will be kited down as well.

I'm not complaining, I'm primarily an archer myself, but as things stand the only reason not to use archery is economic concerns about the cost of arrows ;)

[Facemelter]

If you only rely on melee weapons to do damage and expect everyone to neatly stand there and get wailed on instead of getting distance and turning the tables, you deserve to die.

If someoen tries to kite you, shoot arrows too, as a previous poster said you'll be mostly getting back hits while they hit to the front, whereupon they'll probably whip out a melee weapon to counter you shooting them in the back.

The point is that you can't rely on one single weapon in this game, you need to play smart and diverse, or you deserve to get your arse handed to you on a platter.

[gmornin]

You guys are getting majorly trolled. The Op got handed his ass by an archer and DIDNT have any arrows and bow on himself and got kited.

I wish the fuck wanna be ninja archers would try that run/jump and turn on me more. Givem some backside loving.

Try being an archer when a Full plated polearm/2handed wep user with pots and food comes barreling down on your ass. The try and jump kite ..hah

You'll be long long out fo stam before you dent the fucker.

OP is trolling

[amgineex02]

Here's my good deed for the day.

This is easy to counter if you use 1h+shield. Everytime the kiting archer jumps to shoot you, block. He uses stam on every jump, and he will never be able to do a perfect 180 turn and then 180 turn back, so you will catch up fairly quickly. Beat on his backside or run him out of stam to win. With food, any minor damage you take from his blocked arrows will be easily regened. This is the strategy for the people who has bad aim and can't out shoot the other guy kiting.

If you can aim better than the guy kiting you, just shoot his ass down from medium range. He'll miss a lot more than you and you'll kill him easily enough.

This jump shot strategy works in medium range only if you're an exceptionally good shot. It works in melee range only if the person doing the chasing is letting himself get hammered by the arrows by staying on the chasee's ass while just outside melee range.

Instead of whining to non-existant problems, maybe you should look for solutions instead.

[Golbez01]

Jump-spin-shoot is retarded whether there are tactics to combat it or not. Everybody hopping around in every damn fight gets old fast.

[Xolyus]

Jump-spin-shoot is retarded whether there are tactics to combat it or not. Everybody hopping around in every damn fight gets old fast.

Only because it works and you get owned by it?? Don't know how to counter it???

[Baelfire]

Here's my good deed for the day.

This is easy to counter if you use 1h+shield. Everytime the kiting archer jumps to shoot you, block. He uses stam on every jump, and he will never be able to do a perfect 180 turn and then 180 turn back, so you will catch up fairly quickly. Beat on his backside or run him out of stam to win. With food, any minor damage you take from his blocked arrows will be easily regened. This is the strategy for the people who has bad aim and can't out shoot the other guy kiting.

If you can aim better than the guy kiting you, just shoot his ass down from medium range. He'll miss a lot more than you and you'll kill him easily enough.

This jump shot strategy works in medium range only if you're an exceptionally good shot. It works in melee range only if the person doing the chasing is letting himself get hammered by the arrows by staying on the chasee's ass while just outside melee range.

Instead of whining to non-existant problems, maybe you should look for solutions instead.

Apparently you have never been kited by someone who can turn 180 hit you with high accuracy and still turn around and land going in same direction without losing speed.

Combine this with stam pots and it turns into a stam match of who has more pots.

[Nyrap]

Apparently you have never been kited by someone who can turn 180 hit you with high accuracy and still turn around and land going in same direction without losing speed.

Combine this with stam pots and it turns into a stam match of who has more pots.

Or you could pull out a bow and shoot him since you know where he's going to land after jumping.

[katahlyn]

If someone is running away from you, while jumping turning shooting, couldn't you just shoot arrows at him back? Most of your hits would end up being to the back, while all of your opponents would be to the front.

He wouldn't be running away from you if you were shooting arrows back at him from a distance.

I agree with the OP. It's stupid that you can jump, turn and shoot like that. And with no stamina/aim penalty. It's also stupid that you can sprint at full speed and shoot a bow with no aim penalty. So, as it stands, archery is pretty much overpowered in that way.

[mmsys]

He wouldn't be running away from you if you were shooting arrows back at him from a distance.

I agree with the OP. It's stupid that you can jump, turn and shoot like that. And with no stamina/aim penalty. It's also stupid that you can sprint at full speed and shoot a bow with no aim penalty. So, as it stands, archery is pretty much overpowered in that way.

It's the same with Spellcasting.

[Dolmar]

If you had a good brain you could parry the arrows and that'd drain his or her stamina, then predict their pattern of movement and you'll get some free shots in their back.
If ya both got stam pots the archer wins even with perry u take a slight amount of dmg an stam drain .

[mndfreeze]

I have to concur that archery and spellcasting are a bit more powerful then mellee in general and go so far as to say some balancing is needed, but then again, DF is an attempt at 'realism' and when it comes down to it archery in the real world, it has won massive wars with insane numbers stacked against the archers.

Obviously, in DF, you haev to compliment your skills with variety. Pure anything isnt going to do very well.

[mcap]

All they need to do is make it so you run slightly slower for a second or so after jumping (kinda like CS). Kiting someone that's 5 feet out of melee range wouldn't be possible if you couldn't maintain the exact same speed as your pursuer while using the slight knockback on arrows to mitigate mistakes.

The problem is that if you have higher bow skills and lower melee skills than your opponent, you'd be at a huge disadvantage because it only takes a few seconds for someone to close into melee range (and with a shield out they'd take virtually no damage in the process).

As it is now, the turn-jump-shoot shit is a necessity to win a fight against someone more melee focused than you are, no matter how far apart you start. Right now, it's too easy for someone who has high bow skills and crap melee skills to beat someone who has good melee skills and crap bow skills. If something is done to eliminate close range kiting, it'd be trivial for someone with high melee skills to beat someone with high archery skills. I realize they're not mutually exclusive - this is all assuming the players in question only had time to get high skill values for one or the other. In an ideal world, this would put them on equal footing overall with the situation dictating who has the advantage.

A bow knockback skill that only has an effect in melee range would be a nice addition as long as the cooldown was long enough for a melee character to close the distance and get a few swings off before getting knocked back again. That would allow bow users to kite melee characters to a point without making it so melee characters are unable to do much damage while chasing an archer around in circles.

[CheshireKat]

If you get kited by the jump & bow thing, you deserve to die. Block with a shield for christ's sake and that'll end real quick.

[mcap]

If you get kited by the jump & bow thing, you deserve to die. Block with a shield for christ's sake and that'll end real quick.

Easier said than done. Unlike melee swings, you don't lose additional stamina if your bow shot is blocked. With mana to stam you can sprint as long as it takes to kill someone behind you (assuming you have enough resin).

Sure, the pursuer has the same option, but you lose the ability to block arrows when you pull your staff out to get some stamina back.

There's a reason a bow kiter (Ky Ky) won the only somewhat organized 1v1 tournament this server has seen. The people he was fighting against weren't all newbies or retards that don't know how the game works. If you can actually do the jump-spin-shoot thing properly, little can be done to kill you 1 on 1. Sure, you can use a shield, but unless you're able to stick to a target like glue you'll be outside of 1h melee range more often than not, and when you DO hit them it won't do all that much damage.

Even so, I guess it's not that big of a problem. It's not like every person you run into can use this technique perfectly. Spinning around, landing a hit and spinning back around within the time of a jump without losing speed isn't as easy as everyone makes it sound.

[XEshamX]

1vs1 is idiotic.

if your getting kited then stop chasing. You shouldnt even be by yourself to get kited ever.

[Haeso]

Easier said than done. Unlike melee swings, you don't lose additional stamina if your bow shot is blocked.

False.

[mcap]

False.

Oh, sorry.

Despite my lengthy posts I really don't think it's much of a problem anyway. Discussion and argument for the sake of entertainment, I guess.

[Wartz]

the op said something about knockback with archery... did i miss something? last i checked arrows at close range acctaully bring you closer...

[Duk]

Hello, i've been playing the game for about 2 weeks now and would like to share my experience.

So far i've gotten a hang of the game pretty well, but one thing that i find so silly is archery.

I like archery, it is a good range weapon and fun to use but so many people use it in melee..
How is it that you do not allow strafe sprinting without slowing down, but you can jump in a circle and fire a spell or shoot an arrow without losing speed.
I thought it was about gameplay realism.

I tried this a few times myself and found that it is silly overpowered when i saw that arrows actually have a knockback.
After hours of skilling up my archery and trying to master the skill of "kiting" i started to realize how boring it was to play like this, i got terribly bored after kiting endless of newbies.

Was this really intended this way? I have found a mixture of archery and melee most fun but it always ends the same way...kiting.

In my personal oppinion people shouldnt be allowed to sprint jump and shoot like that.

Its already enough that archery has better damage and a knockback, it should be limited to range use.

To fix this they should just make archery/magic "fizzle" if you are in the air.

[Bloodgloom]

The "seize" line of skills should be changed to a "charge" that rapidly move melee forward with a damaging attack. Would be a great way to solve the "kiting" issue of melee while still forcing melee to aim an attack and not add cc to the game.

.. Or I suppose they could just make Seize useful and actually give it some range when it comes to drawing an opponent towards you, but this means someone loses control of their character while being seized, which kinda sucks and goes against everything else this game is all about.

[Zephyr40k]

Jump-spin-shoot is retarded whether there are tactics to combat it or not. Everybody hopping around in every damn fight gets old fast.

/signed. Even if there are counters to the tactic, its still a lame tactic.

Clearly, Tasos has watched too many John Woo movies. :rolleyes:

[FrodoBaghins]

There are multiple solutions to someone that is kiting you.

For example lets say your a melee, dont follow him! Or atleast put on a shield for god sakes.

Also, the developers really do need to patch the kiting that is so popular in this game, ive played other mmorpgs in the past and they have the same problem. Casters and Long range classes just kite melees to death. It ruins the PvP. My solution to that was just try to avoid "kiters" as much as possible, if that is not an option then simply either:

A) throw on a shield.
or
B) Shoot them back.