dagger

[Herbalist]

when daggers will be playable in PvP? they have this litle range ok it cleare...but they need to be 3×faster !

[Xorv]

when daggers will be playable in PvP? they have this litle range ok it cleare...but they need to be 3×faster !

They need something, but 3X faster would be too much clicking.. I almost wish I went with pole arms for no other reason than to mouse click a little less.

[Valorium]

There's already too much clicking to begin with, lol. I think they just need a slight range and damage increase. Everything is loaded with piercing resist as it is already.

[Herbalist]

true :sly: clicking can make your mous crack ,but you will able to point on things realy nicely with your giant fingger :idea:

Dmg and range flipp is not a bad idea but then it must be a nother weapon ,like dual wild short sword but it coud be the best!!!:cool:
But I'm afraid in slightly inposible ...

[Hoffburger]

Leave the speed, just make them hit twice with every click. Like a one two punch but with daggers.

[Valorium]

pretty solid idea

[Drekor]

I'd be fine with improving the parry on them, I like them because of how often I can knockback and being an archer that is useful to me. They are horrible for defense though which is why I use GS still as it does good damage, good parry, excellent range.

Making daggers faster doesn't really solve the problem as you can't stick to people, unless they suck. So making them hit harder(or double tap) with each swing is a better solution. I think perhaps giving a large bonus to hitting on peoples side and back(over and above the normal) may also be a decent idea.

[Shiladie]

my writeup I did a while back about knives/daggers:


Currently knives are underpowered in PvP. They are the fasted weakest weapon, and require 2-hands to use, meaning we must look at them in comparison to the other 2-handed weapons, not the 1 handed weapons. In PvE they do normal amounts of damage because you are able to sit next to your target wailing away, making use of the fast attack speed. In PvP, you are not sitting next to your opponent, hitting on every cooldown; you are instead getting a hit every 3-4 seconds when you get an opportunity as you run and dodge around. What this means for daggers vs other melee weapons is that when you're fighting somebody, you get less hits in compared to them, due to your short reach, as well as your weapon doing less damage to them on each of the hits you do get.

Full plate wearing dagger fighters are hardly an archtype, in fact breaking from any kind of real or fantasy world norms. What needs to be done is to at the same time, increase dagger's use in PvP, as well as giving them an incentive to wear lighter armour.

However we do not want players who do not yet have access to the higher levels of armour doing unproportionally better then somebody else at their gear level because he uses daggers. In this way I came up with the following solution.

Increase the effectiveness of the Knife mastery skill, gained at 75 knife skill, by an extreme amount, but then have it be negatively affected by encumbrance. If the numbers are worked right, you can make the sweet spot right around studded leather armour, fulfilling the archtypical knife fighter role.

This would result in a much squishier character capable of dealing large amounts of damage at very close range, something that if balanced right can add a lot to the game.

An additional different change that I don't think would be out of line to give to knives would be to increase the damage the knife power attack does by 2-3x when striking somebody from from behind, making for a very effective weapon to have when you are behind the enemy lines with the casters.

If anyone else has anything to add to this or reasons why it it a horrible idea please post it!

[hyperion_x91]

my writeup I did a while back about knives/daggers:

ya... thats exactly what I want to see happen to daggers. Perfectly put.

[Mythical246]

i like that write up, your ideas were dead on, the only thing is, when my guild goes out raiding we do have some one with daggers, and they are deadly, all you have to do is have 1 peson fighting some one, dagger person runs up behind and tears them appart. But i've seen some people who are amazing with daggers and it's really just all about being on your target like flys on shit. if you just keep sprinting circles, zig zags and every thing else you can kill them...........unless your fighting polearms, those are just op lol

[Coneitic]

ninja edit, wrong thread

[soy]

I'd really like daggers to be viable, as a light armored annoying rogue sort of guy except without the stealth.. I think I'll hold off on a 1h weapo skill for a while to see if there's any signs of them buffing them.

Plenty of other stuff to work on right now anyways, as I just started a few days ago.

[keeperofstars]

daggers are viable and have decent range, its just different range. Daggers have a really really wide arch of attack. It is just a bit farther than a 1hand axe actually.

to fight with daggers you have to use sprint and keep to the sides of your target, use jump to get around them quickly, and be relentless with your attacks.

Doing so will net you a win almost every time.

Have to realize a dagger swing takes about 1/3 the stam compared to a polearm. So you have some room to use stam a bit more than others. Also your attack skills are typically a lot less mana, so you get to spam them quite a bit.

Daggers become super deadly in group pvp. Have a mage haste a dagger user, slow the attacker, and hit him with piercing debuff and watch the guy drop from dagger in a heart beat. It's pretty sick how much those spells add to your pwnage.

Honestly daggers in pvp make great finish uppers as well. Meaning you are using a bow / spells to bring your target down a bit till they reach you. Then change to dagger to finish them off.

It's all about your ability to straff and dodge as to how well you do with daggers. If you don't move well in tight pvp where you try staying a step ahead of your opponent then daggers will get you killed quickly. If your good watch out cause you will do well.

I do like the 1-2 punch idea though. Give them 2 quick jabs, per attack. Would help resolve their frontal range issue.

[nazgo]

1. Longer Range
or
2.Smaller Stamina Cost
or
3. Higher Damage
or
4. Seize with every attack (like polearm knockback)

[Dakyn]

Daggers should also be Dex based and raise a persons dex stat.

[soy]

Sounds pretty good, my only worry is that being on the west coast and generally having around 180 ping I'll have some problems with landing hits.

I really want to use daggers though, so I may just go ahead and do it.

My initial plan has been to train up 2h axes for higher damage output with a bit of range, and daggers for when the person is stuck or for other situations.

Though it may also work to train 1h swords or clubs for mounted combat and also so that I'll have the option to use a shield and have the other damage type. I do worry about the stacked pierce resistance that seems to be going on, and I can't really rely on having people pierce debuffed all the time.

[Daelyx]

Sounds pretty good, my only worry is that being on the west coast and generally having around 180 ping I'll have some problems with landing hits.

I really want to use daggers though, so I may just go ahead and do it.

My initial plan has been to train up 2h axes for higher damage output with a bit of range, and daggers for when the person is stuck or for other situations.

Though it may also work to train 1h swords or clubs for mounted combat and also so that I'll have the option to use a shield and have the other damage type. I do worry about the stacked pierce resistance that seems to be going on, and I can't really rely on having people pierce debuffed all the time.

I also have around 180-200 ping, and wanted to use daggers for a while. I think I still will, be it only for the short knockback timer. It's really tough to stay on top of someone with a higher ping, though still do-able.

Let me know how it works out.

[soy]

I figure worst case I'm a little nerfed on daggers until they put up NA and also maybe rebalance them a little.

Sword/shielding sounds boring and I like big axes... But I also like big swords... Decisions.

I always have this problem, but it's a nice problem to have. I'm kind of leaning towards axe/shield and daggers

[Daelyx]

I always have this problem, but it's a nice problem to have. I'm kind of leaning towards axe/shield and daggers

Haha, I've been playing since day 1, and I still haven't come to a conclusion on weapon choice/race choice/character choice etc...

Just started my 4th character.

[Herbalist]

Daggers should also be Dex based and raise a persons dex stat.

for shure ! I totaly agree.

[Herbalist]

I made a test :

We standed front of each others and didnrt muved, with hitting the oponent till hp 3-5.

My dagger sill was: 32
My 2H sword was 30

The 2H sword was starter ,THE DAGGER WAS LVL 20

we had 3 tries
2h sword hit the point 100%...
:confused:

[Wufiavelli]

I made a test :

We standed front of each others and didnrt muved, with hitting the oponent till hp 3-5.

My dagger sill was: 32
My 2H sword was 30

The 2H sword was starter ,THE DAGGER WAS LVL 20

we had 3 tries
2h sword hit the point 100%...
:confused:

Armor or no armor?

[Cammy White]

I made a test :

We standed front of each others and didnrt muved, with hitting the oponent till hp 3-5.

My dagger sill was: 32
My 2H sword was 30

The 2H sword was starter ,THE DAGGER WAS LVL 20

we had 3 tries
2h sword hit the point 100%...
:confused:

Did you use power attack for each? The dagger power attack cooldown would probably make it end up doing more DPS.

[psycho91]

What we actually need is a spell called Shadowstep.

It has a 15 second cooldown and when you use it you appear behind your target. It also gives a damage bonus to the next attack i'm about to suggest.

Backstab: An attack where you thrust your dagger into your targets back causing 150% damage! You could also get a version for stealth called Ambush, it does more damage but you must be in stealth to use it.

btw stealth is cool.

[Herbalist]

Did you use power attack for each? The dagger power attack cooldown would probably make it end up doing more DPS.

withouth armores ofcourse and no power atack or resize weapon (what I have for daggers (and they are usless ,you can use power atack only from the back) and just left click-click till the end:sly:

so from the test it seems daggers are not as good even if you hit with every even click. (ah and bouth was horizontaly hits)

ah and dont forget my dagger skill was higher then H2 sword and the dagger was R20 the H2 sword was starter!

[Cammy White]

For some reason I don't trust your data...

[nazgo]

btw guys ur dagger skill atm?
My is 65

[Blaster]

withouth armores ofcourse and no power atack or resize weapon (what I have for daggers (and they are usless ,you can use power atack only from the back) and just left click-click till the end:sly:

so from the test it seems daggers are not as good even if you hit with every even click. (ah and bouth was horizontaly hits)

ah and dont forget my dagger skill was higher then H2 sword and the dagger was R20 the H2 sword was starter!

He is right, was doing this too starter 2h sword vs R20 dagger... same skills, daggers lost

[Herbalist]

For some reason I don't trust your data...

I had this experiance belive me , but I will trie it just after restart again and I post my results. But if you have some data please share it.
I realy wana play with daggers I even bought a new 3000+ dpi mous lol but my experiance that I can kill in PvP better with 2H ,I tried to run around , sprint with daggers but ther is a big problem even if I handle the range and we make the same hit in each other just count what dmg a dagger has and what you take from a two handed:sly: Ok we can say I must be faster and always hit the oponents back ,but if I'm soo cool way dont to back stap with a two handed?:idea:

So 1H ,2H -your choice , 1H can use shilds what has a unbelivable high deffens, 2H has a greater range and high dmg

What dagger has? Fast? realy? I kill an npc 10 time faster with 2H then with daggers ...
But its the same madness like you cant enchant robes for mages:confused:
A player in full plate SWIMM lol and sprint:lmao: as fast as a player in light armores:confused:
You can turn of shadows ..good bye stealth...:ninja:
Great npc dissapiares after you fight with him for an our and has 3 hp ..:confused:

Sorry devs its a great game "coud be" but this nonsenses must be fix coz Mortal Online is comeing...

[nazgo]

nothing for us.. again.. :ninja: