A conversation about race

[Desperado[1G]]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_LXQsXJ9qk&feature=channel_page
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDNlDyy_xj0&feature=channel_page
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkbmfAOkN40&feature=channel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGKLUi1FhZk&feature=channel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSOxT8JcmTI&feature=channel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKXYdaBWCLs&feature=channel_page

An interesting set of videos I've come across

[bdjhall]

Why can't we all just agree that North Koreans are far superior to everyone else? That's all that really matters.

[IthroZada]

Since when were any North Koreans, besides Kim jong-Il himself, allowed to access uncensored internet?

[1998altima]

Why can't we all just agree that North Koreans are far superior in Starcraft compared to everyone else? That's all that really matters.

This makes more sense.

[Vessol]

The narrator looks like David Spade.

[Gloomrender]

Yay just what we need more politically correct myths about racial equality.

[Vessol]

Yay just what we need more politically correct myths about racial equality.

Watch it. It's not about that. I'm watching it now.

[Gloomrender]

Watch it. It's not about that. I'm watching it now.

You are correct. Touche.

[Silverhandorder]

Racist!!!!

[Gloomrender]

Haha. Awesome, this guy is a like a skinny Cartmen all grown up. He's my hero.

[kordoyn]

Does one of the videos show scientific proof that black people have evolved superior hands for cotton picking? :ninja:

[1998altima]

Lols "Racism could be if I'm arresting this guy because he's gay but I'm straight."

[kordoyn]

Lols "Racism could be if I'm arresting this guy because he's gay but I'm straight."

Truth, since we know only Koreans have the gay gene.

[heroshade]

Why can't we all just agree that North Koreans are far superior to everyone else? That's all that really matters.

Because then we would be blatantly lying to ourselves.

[1998altima]

My God, this movie is full of winning quotes, "Oh there goes a black person... that's odd or unusual."

EDIT: LOLOL Where do they get these people?!

"You look at the guy next too you and you think... his lips are dirty cuz he might have sucked on a water fountain."

I'm gonna keep adding quotes to this post.

[Silverhandorder]

I need to go to sleep... must stop watching...

[Gloomrender]

I need to go to sleep... must stop watching...

lol me2. I can't stop.

[Silverhandorder]

"we study facts not what happened"

/facepalm

[Rathynas]

I don't like how he interviewed them... Of course blacks are better at basketball because their reaction times are better and they tend to be taller. There are real differences between races. It's not some made up thing... Durrr.

[Vessol]

I don't like how he interviewed them... Of course blacks are better at basketball because their reaction times are better and they tend to be taller. There are real differences between races. It's not some made up thing... Durrr.

That wasn't the point. If you noticed he asked afterwords "Are there anything in particular whites are better at" which everyone responded to adamantly against. It was to prove the double standard.

[1998altima]

That wasn't the point. If you noticed he asked afterwords "Are there anything in particular whites are better at" which everyone responded to adamantly against. It was to prove the double standard.

They were stupid people. I can name 5 sports that caucasians (I hate using white and black) are better at.

Hockey
Golf
Nascar
Darts
Rugby

[Vessol]

They were stupid people. I can name 5 sports that caucasians (I hate using white and black) are better at.

Hockey
Golf
Nascar
Darts
Rugby

Then you'd be called a racist. :P

[Silverhandorder]

The blond's mouth needs to be put to better use.

[bdjhall]

African Americans are inherently better at any physical activity, largely due to the slave trade.

-Buy the best specimens one can find that would be suited to hard labor
- Of those, only the healthiest survive the boat ride over
- Then only the healthiest and most resilient of those pro-create

Rinse and repeat on step three for a little while and you have one hell of a race when it comes to physical activity.

They were stupid people. I can name 5 sports that caucasians (I hate using white and black) are better at.

Hockey
Golf
Nascar
Darts
Rugby

African American's have the potential to far exceed whites in these sports (except maybe darts and nascar? what the fuck?) simply because they're bred for it.

[Signus]

Yay just what we need more politically correct myths about racial equality.

You clearly missed the point..

[Silverhandorder]

African Americans are inherently better at any physical activity, largely due to the slave trade.

-Buy the best specimens one can find that would be suited to hard labor
- Of those, only the healthiest survive the boat ride over
- Then only the healthiest and most resilient of those pro-create

Rinse and repeat on step three for a little while and you have one hell of a race when it comes to physical activity.



African American's have the potential to far exceed whites in these sports (except maybe darts and nascar? what the fuck?) simply because they're bred for it.

I wonder how the blacks that were bred in America managed to spread the super black genes in Africa too...

[bdjhall]

I wonder how the blacks that were bred in America managed to spread the super black genes in Africa too...

They're not all that super in Africa.

[Silverhandorder]

They're not all that super in Africa.

Actually Africans in general possess the same phenotypes that blacks posses in America. Actually in many cases they are more prominent in African populations.

[Vessol]

They're not all that super in Africa.

o rly?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wI-9RJi0Qo

[bdjhall]

o rly?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wI-9RJi0Qo

They have endurance, yes. But they're like ten-year old versions of their North American counterparts in terms of stature. They're no different than any other race would be in a similar situation.

[Vessol]

They have endurance, yes. But they're like ten-year old versions of their North American counterparts in terms of stature. They're no different than any other race would be in a similar situation.

What? What does stature matter? I know 6'8 fatasses.

[bdjhall]

What? What does stature matter? I know 6'8 fatasses.

And I know a five foot twig. What's your point?

Size matters when it comes to most sports. Maybe you missed that? Also a larger person of similar fitness to a much smaller person will do much better in most sports and such? Sorry for any misunderstanding.

[Vessol]

And I know a five foot twig. What's your point?

What's your point? Why does stature matter?

[bdjhall]

What's your point? Why does stature matter?

Size matters when it comes to most sports. Maybe you missed that? Also a larger person of similar fitness to a much smaller person will do much better in most sports and such? Sorry for any misunderstanding.

[Vessol]

Stature is determined by diet and environment, not genetic makeup.

Why do you think Asians in general are shorter? It's not a racial trait, it's due to less nutrition and lesser quality food as they tend to have larger populations due to better agriculture.

When you compare say..North Koreans to South Koreans, on average North Koreans are a hell of a lot shorter then South Koreans due to the fact that most suffer from malnutrition.

[1998altima]

Stature is determined by diet and environment, not genetic makeup.



I smell bullshit. And it's coming from your mouth Vessol.

[bdjhall]

Actually Africans in general possess the same phenotypes that blacks posses in America. Actually in many cases they are more prominent in African populations.

By more prominent phenotypes, do you mean characteristics such as strength and size?

[bdjhall]

I smell bullshit. And it's coming from your mouth Vessol

I agree with this dude. It's largely genetic. However many years of malnutrition, will create a smaller race.

[Vessol]

I smell bullshit. And it's coming from your mouth Vessol

Why do you think humans have become progressively taller on average? It's because we progressively had had better food to eat, more food to eat, better health care, etc. Prove that I'm wrong completely.

Height is a manifestation of adaptation.

[bdjhall]

Why do you think humans have become progressively taller on average? It's because we progressively had had better food to eat, more food to eat, better health care, etc. Prove that I'm wrong completely.

Height is a manifestation of adaptation.

It's both, neither genes nor environment completely decipher the outcome.

Proof: Your local library? A grade eleven science text-book, perhaps.

[Mudgutts]

I still lol when I see rednex wearing a dale earnfart hat.

yeeeeeeeahhh #3

no, I didn't click a single fucking link from the OP.

[Vessol]

I still lol when I see rednex wearing a dale earnfart hat.

yeeeeeeeahhh #3

no, I didn't click a single fucking link from the OP.

Ah Mudgutts, my favorite retard child of OT.

[Gloomrender]

It's both, neither genes nor environment completely decipher the outcome.

Ya but obviously with the right environment, one where such conditions are predominant, we can expect to see an overwhelming trend for these traits. And we do.

[Baralis]

I havent been in school in a long while so forgive me. If what he says is true and only 90-98% of our DNA is shared across races wouldnt that suggest we are actually subspecies?

[C++ Student]

The blond's mouth needs to be put to better use.

LOL THOUGHT THE SAME THING.

Yeah I watched the whole thing, personally I don't see much "racism". Even towards whites. If I said white people are better at hockey, most people I know would just agree.

I think most people think black people have it worse and that people are racist against them is because of their culture. I mean can you honestly say a white person has just as good a chance of ending up in the ghetto? To me it almost appears as if black people strive to make their lives shitty.

But the kool thing is I knew this black kid in 7th grade who had skipped 4th, he was really smart and hilarious :). Also my best friend is halfblack, and he is racist against black people lol.

Also on immigration from Mexico, I think if you can't bother to do it legally don't come. Also by not learning English, you are showing a lack of willingness to succeed in this country.

[Spineless_DoO]

I still lol when I see rednex wearing a dale earnfart hat.

yeeeeeeeahhh #3

no, I didn't click a single fucking link from the OP.

Funny I LOL when I see anyone wearing any sport gear.

[Killuminati]

I can't watch this...too much stupid from the interviewees.

[Silverhandorder]

By more prominent phenotypes, do you mean characteristics such as strength and size?

More specifically they sexually mature on avg 2 years earlier. Their cartilage develops faster (grows faster) and they get on avg more of it in the knee joints. Their females have pelvic bones that are distinctly different shape then oriental or caucasian.

[Milo Hobgoblin]

Why can't we all just agree that North Koreans are far superior to everyone else? That's all that really matters.

you mean that population of starving people with no quality of life whatsoever? Oh ya.. they are definitely superior.

[Milo Hobgoblin]

Why do you think humans have become progressively taller on average? It's because we progressively had had better food to eat, more food to eat, better health care, etc. Prove that I'm wrong completely.

Height is a manifestation of adaptation.

Thats only true within a VERY narrow range. You dont have a very strong grasp of genetics and biology.

[Desperado[1G]]

I can't watch this...too much stupid from the interviewees.

The sad thing is, I don't think they're genuinely stupid (Except for the "gangstas", the guy missing his front teeth, and the guy in front of the capital building)

This thought process is drilled into everyone's head from the moment they're born. No one is able to be objective about race, and the consequences of that are becoming clearer with each passing day.

[shadowy]

Thats only true within a VERY narrow range. You dont have a very strong grasp of genetics and biology.

Here's a fun fact i read about this in an article i recently read: the average height of europeans dropped from ~180cm to 160-170cm when people changed from hunter/gatherer lifestyle to farmers.

[Seesawmcgraw]

Idk i think that whenever someone blames white people for anything they should immediately be asked:
well how would you like to be living in the dark ages now that wouldn't be a very fun life? Well that's where the world would probably be without white people not only did we industrialize the human race we have found it is actually easier to list everything not invented by the white man then it is to list everything invented by the white man

[Badem]

AYE very fundamental

Considering we all came from Africa in the first place (7 daughters of Eve and mDNA) and we all spread out, how come Caucasians were weilding Swords and shields and clanking round with Trebuchets while storming Stone castles fortifications and pouring Oil on each other, torturing people on suspicions of witchcraft

What were they doing in Africa?

Oh thats right

FUCK ALL

Just like today, Caucasians has get up and go, an urge to improve themselves, the Majority of black people (not all, Look at Obama, Don King, martin Luther King, Desmund TuTu, Robert Mugabe) seems to think the Caucasians owe them something, sorry not our fault we can grow food really well, get the stuff we need, while In africa you slay your families etc and kidnap children to make them soldiers etc

Only you can improve your lot, but it must be you that does it,

[Killuminati]

;3152816']The sad thing is, I don't think they're genuinely stupid (Except for the "gangstas", the guy missing his front teeth, and the guy in front of the capital building)

This thought process is drilled into everyone's head from the moment they're born. No one is able to be objective about race, and the consequences of that are becoming clearer with each passing day.

It depends on where you grow up, and your parents. I've never heard the word racist from my parents mouth ever. In fact I say racist shit all the time near them when I'm at home while joking with my brother.

Although I agree with what you're saying. People take shit too seriously. Some, also, like to cop out by blaming their misfortunes on racism as well. I find that wealthy rich white people are actually more hung up about racism than minorities sometimes though. This is coming from someone with a minority background.

[alfaroverall]

This makes more sense.
North Koreans don't play Starcraft. South Koreans do. North Koreans are too busy trying to find their daily cockroach so they don't fucking starve to death.
They were stupid people. I can name 5 sports that caucasians (I hate using white and black) are better at.

Hockey
Golf
Nascar
Darts
Rugby
Caucasian is a less accurate term than white. The people designated "Caucasian" are most definitely not from the Caucasus Mountains, except for a small subset of them.

[Silverhandorder]

North Koreans don't play Starcraft. South Koreans do. North Koreans are too busy trying to find their daily cockroach so they don't fucking starve to death.

At first I thought that is too little... then it all made sense.

[alfaroverall]

At first I thought that is too little... then it all made sense.
...what?

Just to clarify, no sort of racism or even opposition to a nation was intended in that post. Any criticism that can be detected there is directed at the North Korean government itself, not at the citizens.

[Silverhandorder]

...what?

Just to clarify, no sort of racism or even opposition to a nation was intended in that post. Any criticism that can be detected there is directed at the North Korean government itself, not at the citizens.

So you weren't talking about giant radiation mutated roaches the size of a lamb? :( Now I am truly confussled.

[alfaroverall]

So you weren't talking about giant radiation mutated roaches the size of a lamb? :( Now I am truly confussled.
No. It would be kick ass if that were the case, but no. In reality I was talking about the fact that they DO starve to death, in rather large numbers. I was just saying it in a slightly more pleasant manner.

[Milo Hobgoblin]

...what?

Just to clarify, no sort of racism or even opposition to a nation was intended in that post. Any criticism that can be detected there is directed at the North Korean government itself, not at the citizens.

I give them more credit as humans than that. For that reason.. I do lay some of the blame on the North Korean citizens.

They are smart enough to know their government is probably one of the most fucked up in the history of the planet. They should have revolted a long time ago.

[Badem]

population control

gotta be good for something

that and Agent Orange

[alfaroverall]

I give them more credit as humans than that. For that reason.. I do lay some of the blame on the North Korean citizens.

They are smart enough to know their government is probably one of the most fucked up in the history of the planet. They should have revolted a long time ago.
I agree with that much, but can you blame the current North Koreans for their situation? They couldn't possibly stand up to the current North Korean military, in part because the military probably comprises the majority of the citizens already! I do think they should have revolted before it came to this, but those failures occurred because of people in the last two generations or so.

[Slade Trillgon]

Since the topic has been heavily hinted towards in this thread I will take this time to say any of you all who are not opposed to reading something techincal should check out the following Pulitzer Prize winning book.

Guns, Germs, and Steel: The fates of human societies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guns,_Germs,_and_Steel)

Which takes a non-standard look at the evolution of human societies.

Wiki Quote:
"According to the author, an alternative title would be A short history about everyone for the last 13,000 years.[1] But the book is not merely an account of the past; it attempts to explain why Eurasian civilizations, as a whole, have survived and conquered others, while attempting to refute the belief that Eurasian hegemony is due to any form of Eurasian intellectual, moral, or inherent genetic superiority. Diamond argues that: the gaps in power and technology between human societies originate in environmental differences amplified by various positive feedback loops; and that, if cultural or genetic differences have favored Eurasians (for example Chinese centralized government, or improved disease resistance among Eurasians), it is only so because of the influence of geography."


Slade

[shadowy]

I agree with that much, but can you blame the current North Koreans for their situation? They couldn't possibly stand up to the current North Korean military, in part because the military probably comprises the majority of the citizens already! I do think they should have revolted before it came to this, but those failures occurred because of people in the last two generations or so.

Ignorance of the people is a neat tool for totalitarian governments, why would they revolt when everyone tells them they got it better than everyone else in the world?

[alfaroverall]

Since the topic has been heavily hinted towards in this thread I will take this time to say any of you all who are not opposed to reading something techincal should check out the following Pulitzer Prize winning book.

Guns, Germs, and Steel: The fates of human societies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guns,_Germs,_and_Steel)

Which takes a non-standard look at the evolution of human societies.

Wiki Quote:
"According to the author, an alternative title would be A short history about everyone for the last 13,000 years.[1] But the book is not merely an account of the past; it attempts to explain why Eurasian civilizations, as a whole, have survived and conquered others, while attempting to refute the belief that Eurasian hegemony is due to any form of Eurasian intellectual, moral, or inherent genetic superiority. Diamond argues that: the gaps in power and technology between human societies originate in environmental differences amplified by various positive feedback loops; and that, if cultural or genetic differences have favored Eurasians (for example Chinese centralized government, or improved disease resistance among Eurasians), it is only so because of the influence of geography."


Slade
Considering that race "distinctions" formed in the first place primarily due to geography...I'm not really buying this notion. It's like saying "x->y->z, and thus x->z, no no no you can't possibly try to split this out into x->y and then y->z, x always has to be considered before you get to z, or else you're racist."
Ignorance of the people is a neat tool for totalitarian governments, why would they revolt when everyone tells them they got it better than everyone else in the world?
Eh...North Koreans around the time that Korea split could not possibly have been that ignorant, since Korea wasn't exactly 100% isolated at that time...and current North Koreans could not possibly be ignorant to the fact that they are fucking starving to death (even if they don't know that other people are happier, starvation IMO is enough to bring about revolution, simply because you know that those fuckers over there (that is, the government) have food and you don't). So I don't buy that excuse.

I do wonder what kept North Korea from revolting in the 1960s and 1970s...maybe they were pretty well off until fairly recently...? Anyone have some input on this?

[Silverhandorder]

Since the topic has been heavily hinted towards in this thread I will take this time to say any of you all who are not opposed to reading something techincal should check out the following Pulitzer Prize winning book.

Guns, Germs, and Steel: The fates of human societies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guns,_Germs,_and_Steel)

Which takes a non-standard look at the evolution of human societies.

Wiki Quote:
"According to the author, an alternative title would be A short history about everyone for the last 13,000 years.[1] But the book is not merely an account of the past; it attempts to explain why Eurasian civilizations, as a whole, have survived and conquered others, while attempting to refute the belief that Eurasian hegemony is due to any form of Eurasian intellectual, moral, or inherent genetic superiority. Diamond argues that: the gaps in power and technology between human societies originate in environmental differences amplified by various positive feedback loops; and that, if cultural or genetic differences have favored Eurasians (for example Chinese centralized government, or improved disease resistance among Eurasians), it is only so because of the influence of geography."


Slade
Funny that Eurasians have Arabs, Caucasians and Orientals living in the same place. Environment might have something to do with it but did Caucasians were the only ones to kick everyone's ass at world domination?

[Killuminati]

Since the topic has been heavily hinted towards in this thread I will take this time to say any of you all who are not opposed to reading something techincal should check out the following Pulitzer Prize winning book.

Guns, Germs, and Steel: The fates of human societies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guns,_Germs,_and_Steel)

Which takes a non-standard look at the evolution of human societies.

Wiki Quote:
"According to the author, an alternative title would be A short history about everyone for the last 13,000 years.[1] But the book is not merely an account of the past; it attempts to explain why Eurasian civilizations, as a whole, have survived and conquered others, while attempting to refute the belief that Eurasian hegemony is due to any form of Eurasian intellectual, moral, or inherent genetic superiority. Diamond argues that: the gaps in power and technology between human societies originate in environmental differences amplified by various positive feedback loops; and that, if cultural or genetic differences have favored Eurasians (for example Chinese centralized government, or improved disease resistance among Eurasians), it is only so because of the influence of geography."


Slade

That book is pseudo-science and it brings nothing new to the table. Environmental Determinism rehashed into a dumb book with a nice title.

[Milo Hobgoblin]

I agree with that much, but can you blame the current North Koreans for their situation? They couldn't possibly stand up to the current North Korean military, in part because the military probably comprises the majority of the citizens already! I do think they should have revolted before it came to this, but those failures occurred because of people in the last two generations or so.

Well.. I disagree for multiple reasons..

1. They said the same thing about the American revolutionaries.. there was no way they could stand up against Englands army.. arguably the best of the era.

2. I think they stand a better chance precisley because so many of its citizens are in their active military.. giving them access to weapons equal to those who would remain loyalists.

These people exist on the verge of starvation.. they live in constant fear of their government, even those in the military. Their entire culture is brainwashed to beleive their "leader" is some sort of demi god who only leaves them starving to protect them from all the foreigners wanting to steal their "phat loots".. while even our most impverished American lives a life the average No. Korean only dreams of.

Considering all that.. I still think they have to take some blame, as human beings with a frontal lobe, they should know better and for the sake of their children and their childrens children.. they need to stand up and stop this shit now. Get rid of that fucker and get someone more sensible in.

They cant feed their people but they are launching sattlelites... fuck.. come on.

[Milo Hobgoblin]

nvm.

[Slade Trillgon]

You all have not even read the book. :lmao:

I did not say it was hard science. I would love for you all to show me a book of hard science that explains the dominance of certain civilizations over others.

I knew that asking people to read would be too much. The author even states that what he puts out in his book is not the sole reason for advancement. He just poses other evidence and hypothesis for aged old assumptions.

The guy won a Pulitzer Prize for the book yet there is nothing of value within its pages?

Pathetic and I wonder when and what the last book of worth you all read was.


Slade

[Silverhandorder]

You all have not even read the book. :lmao:

I did not say it was hard science. I would love for you all to show me a book of hard science that explains the dominance of certain civilizations over others.

I knew that asking people to read would be too much. The author even states that what he puts out in his book is not the sole reason for advancement. He just poses other evidence and hypothesis for aged old assumptions.

The guy won a Nobel Prize for the book yet there is nothing of value within its pages?

Pathetic and I wonder when and what the last book of worth you all read was.


Slade
Nobel Prize? I thought it was Pulitzer Prize.

Anyways any history book would suffice to answer your question. Some people had guns other people had swords. Not much hard sciences needed. Everyone develops at different pace. Some people just simply had shitty luck. I am just trying to say that things are for more complicated then then the wiki article suggests.

[Killuminati]

The guy won a Nobel Prize for the book yet there is nothing of value within its pages?

Pathetic and I wonder when and what the last book of worth you all read was.


Slade

that doesn't mean shit, fuck you, you elitist fuck.

[Aragoni]

1. They said the same thing about the American revolutionaries.. there was no way they could stand up against Englands army.. arguably the best of the era.

The British Army had logistical problems however, and I doubt the North Korean would.

[Milo Hobgoblin]

Since the topic has been heavily hinted towards in this thread I will take this time to say any of you all who are not opposed to reading something techincal should check out the following Pulitzer Prize winning book.

Guns, Germs, and Steel: The fates of human societies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guns,_Germs,_and_Steel)

Which takes a non-standard look at the evolution of human societies.

Wiki Quote:
"According to the author, an alternative title would be A short history about everyone for the last 13,000 years.[1] But the book is not merely an account of the past; it attempts to explain why Eurasian civilizations, as a whole, have survived and conquered others, while attempting to refute the belief that Eurasian hegemony is due to any form of Eurasian intellectual, moral, or inherent genetic superiority. Diamond argues that: the gaps in power and technology between human societies originate in environmental differences amplified by various positive feedback loops; and that, if cultural or genetic differences have favored Eurasians (for example Chinese centralized government, or improved disease resistance among Eurasians), it is only so because of the influence of geography."


Slade

Im a little surprised it took so long for someone to quote this revisionist shit.

"hi if you've never taken a history class or actually been out in the world... this book is for you!"

[Killuminati]

This^

[Vessol]

AYE very fundamental

Considering we all came from Africa in the first place (7 daughters of Eve and mDNA) and we all spread out, how come Caucasians were weilding Swords and shields and clanking round with Trebuchets while storming Stone castles fortifications and pouring Oil on each other, torturing people on suspicions of witchcraft

What were they doing in Africa?

Oh thats right

FUCK ALL

Just like today, Caucasians has get up and go, an urge to improve themselves, the Majority of black people (not all, Look at Obama, Don King, martin Luther King, Desmund TuTu, Robert Mugabe) seems to think the Caucasians owe them something, sorry not our fault we can grow food really well, get the stuff we need, while In africa you slay your families etc and kidnap children to make them soldiers etc

Only you can improve your lot, but it must be you that does it,

I think it's hilariously funny when you have a triple negative "Well I can be racist because they are racist because my ancestors were racist!"

If you want to say Africa is a flaming pile of nothing, why don't you look at Egypt?

But, what do I know?
Who the fuck cares though.

[Slade Trillgon]

Nobel Prize? I thought it was Pulitzer Prize.

Anyways any history book would suffice to answer your question. Some people had guns other people had swords. Not much hard sciences needed. Everyone develops at different pace. Some people just simply had shitty luck. I am just trying to say that things are for more complicated then then the wiki article suggests.

LOL yes Pulitzer prize.

But why did certain populations have metal tools before others when the materials were available and similar non-metal tools were present in both populations. Could it be that they lived in an area that did not require that advancement, for example living in an area that did not have to worry about incursions from outside people?

Why did certain civilzations develop at a "slower pace"? A simple history book does not always give a sociological/anthropological explanation, it typically gives a European/White Male view of what happened. Remeber he who wins the wars writes the histories.

The information within this book is not what you would typically read in history books. It does not refute history it just gives other possible views as to why things happened the way they did.

I is not hard science but it is an interesting read.

that doesn't mean shit, fuck you, you elitist fuck.


If reading books that pose differing concepts then the ancient acceptable text is elitist then bow to me :sly:


Slade

[Milo Hobgoblin]

This^

whats funnier is how the author jumps to conclusions so many times he makes an art form of it..

The europeans had X because they were lucky.. X is easy to grow, easy to tame, easy to eat, easy to make tools from..

the [insert oppressed race here] had Y and Y sucked for all those things.

all the while the author failing to mention (or realize from his ignorance of the history of domestication and agricultural techniques) that it took THOUSAND of years for the Euros to refine the techniques required to make X work they way it did.

Many wild animals can be domesticated.. it just takes dozens of generations of selective breeding before you will see results.. kind of hard to do when you split your time up between constantly migrating, savaging your own people, constantly warring other tribes, refusing to take advantage of technology because you are either afraid of it or have no hope of understanding it.. and the millions of other reason why so many of the cultures fail miserably.

Society evolves just as animals do.. its a result of selection of techniques, social standards that either work or dont to further the prgress of social creatures. You either adapt or get left behind.


and even IF some of what he says were true.. it doesnt explain the last 50 years.. and we can see what happened in Zimbabwe (or any other supposedly "natinalized" African country as proof to the contrary. (and if I have to explain that one to any of you ... you already fail)

[shadowy]

I wondered how long it would take the moronic fuckwits to come to this thread.
If you use the base definition(that whites are superior) this would be pretty fucking accurate.
I think it's hilariously funny when you have a triple negative "Well I can be racist because they are racist because my ancestors were racist!"

Well he is quite correct in the assessment that while europeans were busy trying to conquer their neibhours and to that end developing all kinds of new technologies the south/middle africans pretty much invented nothing and kept on living in their tribes efficiently killing each other with the old tried and true weapons of war instead of developing any noteworthy new tech.

North africa with the egypt and all is of course different.

[Vessol]

Well he is quite correct in the assessment that while europeans were busy trying to conquer their neibhours and to that end developing all kinds of new technologies the south/middle africans pretty much invented nothing and kept on living in their tribes efficiently killing each other with the old tried and true weapons of war instead of developing any noteworthy new tech.

North africa with the egypt and all is of course different.

Most of his post is still extreme generalizations. "Grow stuff better"?, he must never have seen the Nile and how it is still a breadbasket for all of Africa.
And "urge to improve themselves". How do whites have that and blacks don't? Beyond subjective assumptions?

[Milo Hobgoblin]

Most of his post is still extreme generalizations. "Grow stuff better"?, he must never have seen the Nile and how it is still a breadbasket for all of Africa.
And "urge to improve themselves". How do whites have that and blacks don't? Beyond subjective assumptions?

if anything that stupid book will lead the reader to an even more racist conclusion in beleiving that many of the non white racists simply werent smart enough to overcome the root causes of all of the issues implied in the book.

it won a Pulitzer prize for being politically correct.. nothing more. Thats a poorly written book by a bad historian. very disappointing.

[Vessol]

if anything that stupid book will lead the reader to an even more racist conclusion in beleiving that many of the non white racists simply werent smart enough to overcome the root causes of all of the issues implied in the book.

it won a Pulitzer prize for being politically correct.. nothing more. Thats a poorly written book by a bad historian. very disappointing.

I don't plan to read it, but...what? How do they explain asians then? Their society was much more advanced then ours throughout history.

[shadowy]

Most of his post is still extreme generalizations. "Grow stuff better"?, he must never have seen the Nile and how it is still a breadbasket for all of Africa.
And "urge to improve themselves". How do whites have that and blacks don't? Beyond subjective assumptions?

Nile is the breadbasket and maybe that's exactly why egyptians developed and south africans didn't, the need to farm for food(requires tools and mathematics/technology helps a lot in it).

Most hunter/gatherer societies haven't really evolved past the tribal very low technology level state(north american indians, eskimos, european hunter cultures) because technology gives little benefits to them compared to farmers.

I'm not saying whites are superior or anything because for an example most of the mathematics and other technology we have is based on work pioneered by middle-east cultures(arabs) and some are based on oriental inventions.

[1998altima]

I found the ending funny. White = Good and Black = Evil.

Honestly, when you were a child did you think white things were good and black things were evil?

[Aacevedo]

I found the ending funny. White = Good and Black = Evil.

Honestly, when you were a child did you think white things were good and black things were evil?

Noo... but
Jesus clothes are white
The grim reaper wears a black robe
In the sunny "white" day you're secure
In the dark night the monsters come for you
Brides wear white dresses
Witches wear dark clothes ,and a hat
Darth vader wears a black suit
Snow - White - Christmas
Bottomless pits are black
Black holes , suck the universe
Ninjas wear black suits, even ninja squirrels :ninja:

[Vessol]

Noo... but
Jesus clothes are white
The grim reaper wears a black robe
In the sunny "white" day you're secure
In the dark night the monsters come for you
Brides wear white dresses
Witches wear dark clothes ,and a hat
Darth vader wears a black suit
Snow - White - Christmas
Bottomless pits are black
Black holes , suck the universe
Ninjas wear black suits, even ninja squirrels :ninja:

It'd point out that black holes technically are not black, but you either are being sarcastic or are too dumb to figure it out.

[Aacevedo]

It'd point out that black holes technically are not black, but you either are being sarcastic or are too dumb to figure it out.

a little bit of both

[1998altima]

Noo... but
Jesus clothes are white
Jesus himself was supposedly dark skinned or at least olive-tan.
The grim reaper wears a black robe

He is also depicted as being a skeleton which is... white.
Brides wear white dresses
Grooms where black suits, whats your point... grooms are evil?

Darth vader wears a black suit

Darth Vader is white.
Snow - White - Christmas
Well it's a good thing it snows everywhere on Christmas. Being from Cali I remember those white Christmases.


In the sunny "bright" day you're secure
In the dark night the monsters come for you
Bottomless pits are dark
Witches wear dark clothes ,and a hat
Ninjas wear dark suits, even ninja squirrels :ninja:


Dark and bright are different from black and white.

[Aacevedo]

Jesus himself was supposedly dark skinned or at least olive-tan.
The grim reaper wears a black robe
He is also depicted as being a skeleton which is... white.

Grooms where black suits, whats your point... grooms are evil?

Darth Vader is white.

Well it's a good thing it snows everywhere on Christmas. Being from Cali I remember those white Christmases.



Dark and bright are different from black and white.

You forgot the ninja squirrels, YOU MUST NOT FORGET THE NINJA SQUIRRELS

--Edit: My answers are about your question of childhood fears. I didn't think about race for my answers.

[Milo Hobgoblin]

I don't plan to read it, but...what? How do they explain asians then? Their society was much more advanced then ours throughout history.

LOL... they make some references to that. It has to do with shipping and how the decision to close off the ocean lanes by outlawing ship building set them back. (thats a very simple explanation).

Like I said.. its a crap book that won the Pulitzer for being politically correct. Too bad the people who awarded it didnt look into it and see the lack of actual science or history supporting many od Diamonds arguements.

[Killuminati]

If reading books that pose differing concepts then the ancient acceptable text is elitist then bow to me :sly:


Slade

you were talking down to people in this thread, and questioning if they read at all.

[Milo Hobgoblin]

you were talking down to people in this thread, and questioning if they read at all.

while citing a book whose author apparently hasnt read much history himself.

[Slade Trillgon]

I never said it was hard science and that everything in his book was factual and without controversy. I just thought that some of things in that book made some sense. Not all or much of it.

I apologize for being an ass and I need to not get so defensive on forums.

So to those that totally discredit J. Diamonds book, I ask for you to suggest some specific books that you would recommend. I do not read a books and hold all that is within as pure fact, so I more then willing to read the books that you all use in defining your positions.


Slade

[rockyraccoon]

while citing a book whose author apparently hasnt read much history himself.

Until you read a shit ton of history and write a book that refutes his, don't make these statements.

[Milo Hobgoblin]

Until you read a shit ton of history and write a book that refutes his, don't make these statements.

read the book.. you'll see for yourself. between jumping to conclusions, completely ignoring portionsof history and just flat out misrepresentation..

you dont have to be a scholar to see whats going on.

and is that your standard for allowing others to judge something.. if they havnt done it themseleves they arent allowed to criticise? So according to your logic.. only authors can criticise other authors.. only policitians can criticise other politicians.. only actors can criticise other actors..??

and as far as you know I have read a lot of history.. my points regarding his conclusions werent just pulled from a hat.

[shadowy]

Until you read a shit ton of history and write a book that refutes his, don't make these statements.

Yeah, because obviously you know nothing about anything unless you write a book about it! :rolleyes:

[Milo Hobgoblin]

Yeah, because obviously you know nothing about anything unless you write a book about it! :rolleyes:

trust me when I say.. if I was supporting that egaltarian fantasy bullshit book.. Rocky would have been perfectly ok with me critiquing the book.

its okay to critique as long as you support the liberal and politically correct view.. otherwise you're just an uneducated neaderthal and racist.

[Slade Trillgon]

trust me when I say.. if I was supporting that egaltarian fantasy bullshit book.. Rocky would have been perfectly ok with me critiquing the book.

its okay to critique as long as you support the liberal and politically correct view.. otherwise you're just an uneducated neaderthal and racist.

As I asked above. Please give me a list of the books that you use to found your beliefs on this topic. I am willing to read them.


Slade

[Milo Hobgoblin]

As I asked above. Please give me a list of the books that you use to found your beliefs on this topic. I am willing to read them.


Slade

Ok, Ill do what I can. Many of them are probably out of print by now (college text books etc..). I still have some independent publications laying around at home. (usually a little mroe unbiased than colege books) Most of those published in the last decade so still very relevant.


Many of his conclusions are based upon errors regarding the use of technology and inability to adapt to technology (especially in the fields of domestication and agriculture).. he also fails to mention that some civilizations took technology and improved upon it.. in spite of very limited resources.. while others couldnt make heads or tails..

for every example he makes.. there are ten that contradict it. Of course.. the ten that contradict wouldnt lead you down the politically correct road.. and that wont win you a pulitzer.

A good example would be the domestication of the Zebra.. still proves to be impossible.. while ignoring the dozens of other species that were domesticated in Africa.. just poorly managed. (African cattle ranchers arent known for their efficiency)

Africans should be the gods of farming and agriculture.. but even when they've stolen perfectly functioning farms from settlers.. they dropped the productivity to zero within a few years.

Again "some" of his points were valid for short periods of time.. but as societies evolve and change his narrow windows close rapidly.

Of course the reader who may support his thesis before even picking up the book.. will not let themselevs look any further down the path of circumstance.. divining the root cause of why many of the backward ass civilizatons never solved the root cause of the problem.

hell.. after so long.. you shoudlnt have to be told not to shit in your drinking water... yet some civilizatuions simply dont grasp the concept and still think Cholera is spread by fucking ghosts.

[rockyraccoon]

trust me when I say.. if I was supporting that egaltarian fantasy bullshit book.. Rocky would have been perfectly ok with me critiquing the book.

its okay to critique as long as you support the liberal and politically correct view.. otherwise you're just an uneducated neaderthal and racist.

You managed to predict what I was going to do, before I do it and without knowing me. I do agree with your second paragraph though.

Anyways die miserable you old fuck.

[Milo Hobgoblin]

You managed to predict what I was going to do, before I do it and without knowing me. I do agree with your second paragraph though.

Anyways die miserable you old fuck.

I know you do.. because peope like you never have to live with the consequences of your policies and dogma. Your bullshit leftist ideologies have created generations of welfare recipients.. countless starving people in thrid world countries because instead of addressing the one of root causes of their problem (lack of birth control.. leading to overpopulation) you instead send them a bunch of food and medication that gets stolen by their corrupt governments while you sit by in committee and "talk" about it.

Ive been all over this world Ive seen useless blowhard shitbags like you and exactly what your agendas have lead to. Piles of dead fucking bodies and starving children.

[rockyraccoon]

I know you do.. because peope like you never have to live with the consequences of your policies and dogma. Your bullshit leftist ideologies have created generations of welfare recipients.. countless starving people in thrid world countries because instead of addressing the one of root causes of their problem (lack of birth control.. leading to overpopulation) you instead send them a bunch of food and medication that gets stolen by their corrupt governments while you sit by in committee and "talk" about it.

Ive been all over this world Ive seen useless blowhard shitbags like you and exactly what your agendas have lead to. Piles of dead fucking bodies and starving children.

I agreed with you, yet you had to write all that slandering. Oh I see, your just using me as an excuse to express your anti-left rant. I'm a supporter in libertarianism with a few enviromental/safety restrictions on business so your argument doesn't even apply to me.

[Milo Hobgoblin]

I agreed with you, yet you had to write all that slandering. Oh I see, your just using me as an excuse to express your anti-left rant. I'm a supporter in libertarianism with a few enviromental/safety restrictions on business so your argument doesn't even apply to me.

you attacked me first.. had no idea what my background was. defending the author of a book with a very specific agenda. For all you know.. I could be a published Molecular Biologist.

Is there another conclusion I could have drawn?

[Slade Trillgon]

Ok, Ill do what I can. Many of them are probably out of print by now (college text books etc..). I still have some independent publications laying around at home. (usually a little mroe unbiased than colege books) Most of those published in the last decade so still very relevant.


Many of his conclusions are based upon errors regarding the use of technology and inability to adapt to technology (especially in the fields of domestication and agriculture).. he also fails to mention that some civilizations took technology and improved upon it.. in spite of very limited resources.. while others couldnt make heads or tails..

for every example he makes.. there are ten that contradict it. Of course.. the ten that contradict wouldnt lead you down the politically correct road.. and that wont win you a pulitzer.

A good example would be the domestication of the Zebra.. still proves to be impossible.. while ignoring the dozens of other species that were domesticated in Africa.. just poorly managed. (African cattle ranchers arent known for their efficiency)

Africans should be the gods of farming and agriculture.. but even when they've stolen perfectly functioning farms from settlers.. they dropped the productivity to zero within a few years.

Again "some" of his points were valid for short periods of time.. but as societies evolve and change his narrow windows close rapidly.

Of course the reader who may support his thesis before even picking up the book.. will not let themselevs look any further down the path of circumstance.. divining the root cause of why many of the backward ass civilizatons never solved the root cause of the problem.

hell.. after so long.. you shoudlnt have to be told not to shit in your drinking water... yet some civilizatuions simply dont grasp the concept and still think Cholera is spread by fucking ghosts.

Out of print books are not a problem typically and I currently have acess to a medical college database, so journals may also be available.

I may have been over stepping my bounds in pushing the book considering that my background is primarily biology and physiology and relatively week in the areas of anthropology and sociology, but I have an interest and I felt that especially the first few thousand years he went over made some sense, but the further on it did become week. I mean he was trying to cover quite a bit of history and I did take it with a grain of salt.

I will look forwrd to the book titles and you can, not that it matters, rest assured that I will get my hands on them.


Slade

[rockyraccoon]

you attacked me first.. had no idea what my background was. defending the author of a book with a very specific agenda. For all you know.. I could be a published Molecular Biologist.

Is there another conclusion I could have drawn?

I never defended the author idiot. I haven't even read the book yet.

I was just responding to your post saying the author hadn't read much history.

How do you write a history book that critically acclaimed without reading much history?

[Milo Hobgoblin]

I never defended the author idiot. I haven't even read the book yet.

I was just responding to your post saying the author hadn't read much history.

How do you write a history book that critically acclaimed without reading much history?

I stated very clearly why the book is "critically" acclaimed.. and when you read it, you will probably agree if you're as libertarian as you claim. (and have read much history.. as I dont know what your educational background is)

The author does not give much credit to human beings.

[rockyraccoon]

I stated very clearly why the book is "critically" acclaimed.. and when you read it, you will probably agree if you're as libertarian as you claim. (and have read much history.. as I dont know what your educational background is)

The author does not give much credit to human beings.

I don't know, something tells me the guys awarding the U.S' most important literary award have to know something already about what their reading. That is unless their just like the rest of America.

[Milo Hobgoblin]

and by the way.. Im not a misanthropist.. my problem is that I probably give to much credit to humans .. expecting them to perform when they dont. Unlike the author.. I wont make excuses for them

Exceptional civilizations have excelled under the worst of conditions. Byut no mention of those..

Its real cute how h makes little referenceto the black plague.. and actually claims that certain immunities that may or may not have been derived from its spread.. actually allowed the Europeans to gain power over lesser cultures.

LMFAO.. it wiped out nearly half of Europes population in the 15th century alone.. what the fuck was Africa doing while the entire continent of Europe was rotting? It fucking pisses me off that he so readily dismisses the ingenuity of so many of their people.. all the while claming how circumstance fostered their rise to power...

Hell.. they were using windmills and distilling water in the 11th century in Persia.. again.. what the hell was Africa doing?

so.. ya the book pisses me off. Its a fucking slap in the face to western culture. but because its politically correct people suck its dick. Fuck Diamond.

[Milo Hobgoblin]

I don't know, something tells me the guys awarding the U.S' most important literary award have to know something already about what their reading. That is unless their just like the rest of America.

... this

sorry for getting so bitchy with you. wont happen again

[Desperado[1G]]

Jared Diamond is an idiot who goes to any lengths to explain away the fact that some peoples on the earth advanced very little in thousands of years, he tries to fit history to his leftist sociopolitical views.

As I recall, one of his primary "ideas" is that Europe rose to the heights it did because it had a greater East-West landmass than North-South (such as Africa). Even if I agreed with his theories it blows up when looking at the so-called "Native Americans", they had a massive land mass to work with on an East-West axis and still failed to get beyond a very basic level of existence.

[rockyraccoon]

... this

sorry for getting so bitchy with you. wont happen again

No problem, its a forumfall thing. We get bitchy at everyone.