Shooting Arrows Under Water

[ewlinitis]

Intended or not? Should it be removed or keep it?

Since I didnt have the option for a poll.

Vote :


1. Yes, Its fun jumping up and down and hitting people from underneath.



2. No , take it off , its not realistic.

[freeze_SD]

keep it

having ppl run in the water for safety is alrdy an annoyance...

dont make it worse

[Shinjo]

You can fire bows underwater irl, however they don't really go as far or do as much dmg.

If anything should be changed, just lower the dmg done by them in the water.

[stega]

You can fire bows underwater irl, however they don't really go as far or do as much dmg.

If anything should be changed, just lower the dmg done by them in the water.

K are you fucking kidding with this statement? Ive seen a few people claim this same thing. Yes you could shoot a bow above the water into the water and have the arrow go some distance and possibly do some damage. But there is no way you could fire a bow underwater, the bowstring wouldn't do shit and the arrow would go a few feet max.

[ClockworkOrange]

swimming bug makes underwater shooting necessary.

[Masumatek]

Swimming bug?

[Teth]

Swimming bug?
There's approximately a thousand and one different swimming bugs which let you move at ridiculous faster-than-boat speeds in water. When somebody says "swimming bug", the correct response is "which one?"; various forms of them have been in since the earliest phases of public beta and every time one gets fixed it seems another crops up.

[Masumatek]

There's approximately a thousand and one different swimming bugs which let you move at ridiculous faster-than-boat speeds in water. When somebody says "swimming bug", the correct response is "which one?"; various forms of them have been in since the earliest phases of public beta and every time one gets fixed it seems another crops up.

Ahh, ty. Thought something was fishy with one guy but his explanation was high swim skill/stats. Is the "high skill/stats" explanation a good excuse for any fast movement, either swimming or sprinting? That's always the excuse. I thought skills only provided minor bonuses but none of mine are high enough so I don't know for sure.

[inademv]

Intended or not? Should it be removed or keep it?

Since I didnt have the option for a poll.

Vote :


1. Yes, Its fun jumping up and down and hitting people from underneath.



2. No , take it off , its not realistic.

1

Haven't you ever been spear fishing?

[naga_ownage]

let ppl shoot bows under water, but don't require them to start the bow above water. Also let all spells be cast under water.

[Teth]

Ahh, ty. Thought something was fishy with one guy but his explanation was high swim skill/stats. Is the "high skill/stats" explanation a good excuse for any fast movement, either swimming or sprinting? That's always the excuse. I thought skills only provided minor bonuses but none of mine are high enough so I don't know for sure.
Swimming skill only adjusts stamina usage when sprint-swimming. Diving gives extra breath while underwater. There are no skills that improve actual movement speed in the water (that we know of yet, anyway). Sprint-swim speed is sprint-swim speed is sprint-swim speed. Somebody with GM Swimming can sprint-swim longer than somebody without, but that's it. You see somebody going faster than you while sprint-swimming, something be up.

[inademv]

Swimming skill only adjusts stamina usage when sprint-swimming. Diving gives extra breath while underwater. There are no skills that improve actual movement speed in the water (that we know of yet, anyway). Sprint-swim speed is sprint-swim speed is sprint-swim speed. Somebody with GM Swimming can sprint-swim longer than somebody without, but that's it. You see somebody going faster than you while sprint-swimming, something be up.

There is a swimspeed bug where you can move at normal run/sprint speed. Not sure how it is done though.

[Teth]

There is a swimspeed bug where you can move at normal run/sprint speed. Not sure how it is done though.
As I said in a previous post, there are several swimming bugs. Some let you move at jogging speed, others let you outpace rafts.

[inademv]

As I said in a previous post, there are several swimming bugs. Some let you move at jogging speed, others let you outpace rafts.

lol tribes style water skiing

[Zunk[SUN]]

Intended or not? Should it be removed or keep it?

Since I didnt have the option for a poll.

Vote :


1. Yes, Its fun jumping up and down and hitting people from underneath.



2. No , take it off , its not realistic.


Like magic and dragons and shit is realistic?

[L07u5]

Either remove it or let me be able to shoot magic into water. Preferably making magic go through water otherwise every patch of water is as safe a tower protected area.

[DarkFallFan69]

;3126600']Like magic and dragons and shit is realistic?

Realistic in terms of physics, which is what this game is trying to do (minus the ridiculous distance the weapon knockback spec sends you flying). Being able to shoot an arrow at full speed underwater is stupid.

[Xorv]

They can leave it in until they add harpoons/spearguns ;)


Seriously though why should it be removed? Would swinging melee weapons be effective underwater? No of course not, but they are in DFO. I don't really care whether spells work underwater that much and I have GM and WC, it would make sense that water magic worked under water, but ultimately anyone who's purely a mage in gimped anyway, so just pull out your bow.

Or is the idea to make the water one gaint safezone?

[naga_ownage]

is swimming in full plate something you could do in RL? no you couldn't,.

[DarkFallFan69]

rockys a ***

[McDoogs]

Water cannot be a safe zone. It just cannot. Archery in water is fine as it is, the game does not need to be carebeared out even more.

[Elochim]

i vote for 2.
u cant really shoot an arrow underwater.

[inademv]

i vote for 2.
u cant really shoot an arrow underwater.

Yes you can. Go try it right now.

[Donald Duck]

Water cannot be a safe zone. It just cannot. Archery in water is fine as it is, the game does not need to be carebeared out even more.
Then they need to add magic. If you can use your bow I want to be able to use my air and fire magic.

[Atnas]

I don't think it's intended since you can't arm the bow under the water, but I'd really like to keep it the way it is (or allow shooting completely). Chasing people through water is extremely annoying and it shouldn't be some sort of safezone, since meleeing a diving and evading target is really tough.

[NurfedRekuul]

I don't think it's intended since you can't arm the bow under the water, but I'd really like to keep it the way it is (or allow shooting completely). Chasing people through water is extremely annoying and it shouldn't be some sort of safezone, since meleeing a diving and evading target is really tough.

I agree completely.

[greeneggsnoham]

I vote remove it. Your arguments for it make no sense.

Realism

1) Yes you can fire a bow underwater.

Oh really? Go get a medieval style wood bow, wood arrows with feathers, and show me how far that arrow travels when you're submerged. It goes almost nowhere, and because of the wood material and the feathers, it is totally inaccurate.

2) Well, there are spear guns

Yes. CO2 powered spear guns that fire steel or carbon fiber bolts that do not have feathers, and even then they have a VERY short maximum range. The ones you can buy generally have a range of 14 to 30 FEET. That's 5-10 metres for those metric folks out there.

Face it, water has a little more resistance than air, and wood floats, like this argument.

3) But I could do it! Really!

Let's see you try and aim a bow and tread water at the same time. I'll call the paramedics ahead of time.

4) What about harpoon guns?

These are GUNS, and are generally mounted on a ship because of their size. Even so, they need the whale to surface to hit.


Water will be a safe zone! Oh noez!

No, it won't, any more than zigzagging through a wooded area is a safe zone now. People still have to surface to breathe, and they still run out of stamina if they try to sprint. In the future, rafts and ships will become more common, and when that happens, running into the water will be certain death. If you've been chased down by a raft with 2 or 3 people on it, you know what I mean.

Right now, if you go into water and have a bow and arrows = win. Gear/build determines the outcome, rather than player skill.

[Lictor]

I vote remove it. Your arguments for it make no sense.

Realism

1) Yes you can fire a bow underwater.

Oh really? Go get a medieval style wood bow, wood arrows with feathers, and show me how far that arrow travels when you're submerged. It goes almost nowhere, and because of the wood material and the feathers, it is totally inaccurate.

2) Well, there are spear guns

Yes. CO2 powered spear guns that fire steel or carbon fiber bolts that do not have feathers, and even then they have a VERY short maximum range. The ones you can buy generally have a range of 14 to 30 FEET. That's 5-10 metres for those metric folks out there.

Face it, water has a little more resistance than air, and wood floats, like this argument.

3) But I could do it! Really!

Let's see you try and aim a bow and tread water at the same time. I'll call the paramedics ahead of time.

4) What about harpoon guns?

These are GUNS, and are generally mounted on a ship because of their size. Even so, they need the whale to surface to hit.


Water will be a safe zone! Oh noez!

No, it won't, any more than zigzagging through a wooded area is a safe zone now. People still have to surface to breathe, and they still run out of stamina if they try to sprint. In the future, rafts and ships will become more common, and when that happens, running into the water will be certain death. If you've been chased down by a raft with 2 or 3 people on it, you know what I mean.

Right now, if you go into water and have a bow and arrows = win. Gear/build determines the outcome, rather than player skill.

Thank you for that post. I will sign under it...

[chimp]

Why is it every time one of these noobs who gets pkd in water when they think they have just reached safety has to start a thread whining about the mechanism which got them killed?

Shall we nerf anyone who has ever killed you on your journal as well just to make the game easier for you?

Faggot.

[dinendal]

Yes you can. Go try it right now.

You are stupid right? I mean, you HAVE to be stupid. Seriously?

[Atnas]

Water will be a safe zone! Oh noez!

No, it won't, any more than zigzagging through a wooded area is a safe zone now. People still have to surface to breathe, and they still run out of stamina if they try to sprint. In the future, rafts and ships will become more common, and when that happens, running into the water will be certain death. If you've been chased down by a raft with 2 or 3 people on it, you know what I mean.

Right now, if you go into water and have a bow and arrows = win. Gear/build determines the outcome, rather than player skill.

Don't be stupid. No one carries around a valuable raft just in case someone might go into the water, and no one ever will. On land, you can easily hit a fleeing opponent with melee if you are within range- underwater, melee is almost impossible because not only can you move from side to side, but also up and down in incredible speeds.

And what if you don't have a raft? The water isn't a complete safezone, but the player being chased needs to be a complete idiot to die under cirumstances like that.

Edit: Since when isn't aiming with a bow "player skill"?

[Viluin]

No ranged attacks underwater, BUT reduce underwater swimming speed so it's not a safe area. Water should be melee territory, like hell you should be able to fire a damn bow underwater. It's obviously unintended, otherwise you would've been able to nock it underwater as well.

I enter the water because most people suck at melee in the water. I don't do it to run, I do it to kill someone. Heck, yesterday I was attacked by someone from Awful Company in good armor while I had no stamina (Was killing Troll Lords with my bow in cloth armor). I had to pop a minor potion to do anything. I jump in the water and 2 minutes later he's running away on his mount because he was dying.

[Suicide]

This is a case where the metagame is more important than realism. Arrows and magic should fly and by capable of working the same way in water as in air.

To satisfy the realism fanatics I submit the following. In the world of Agon, bows are magical and they shoot these special arrows called "fantasy arrows."

Like magic, these "fantasy arrows" have special powers. One extremely special power is that the arrows do not kill you in one or two hits, but rather take 8 to 10 hits even when the target is naked. Furthermore, you can shoot someone square in the front and the arrow will appear as if you shot them in the back. And if you did shoot them in the back, you somehow magically do more damage than if you shot them right in the from face from point-blank range. These truly are magic arrows.

[kheled]

No it's not realistic to be underwater shooting arrows, but it's also not realistic to shoot mana missiles from your fingertips. We should have some way to ranged attack in the water, so I think it's fine as it is.

[Suicide]

Intended or not? Should it be removed or keep it?

Since I didnt have the option for a poll.

Vote :


1. Yes, Its fun jumping up and down and hitting people from underneath.



2. No , take it off , its not realistic.

Just so we are all on the same page...

When I shoot arrows underwater, they never hit. I have not tested it extensively, but I have done it from point blank range against a friend and he never gets hit. It does run the animation and release the arrow, but no hit is registered and no damage is received. So I just want to make it clear that the ability to shoot underwater, while present, does not allow for damage to occur.

But one can "jump" out of the water and hit someone on land. But you cannot while you are treading water. Anyone can feel free to add on to these game mechanics.

[Mercerism]

Intended or not? Should it be removed or keep it?

Since I didnt have the option for a poll.

Vote :


1. Yes, Its fun jumping up and down and hitting people from underneath.



2. No , take it off , its not realistic.

2: Take it off, it's lame.

[CountValor]

1.

If you allow players to swim an infinite distance and dive for 15 seconds and not have MORE sharks/barracudas/piranhas, then you need to allow players to attack them in and under water.

If not, water will become a safe zone. With this world being 5 major islands, that is not an acceptable solution.

[peertje]

;3126600']Like magic and dragons and shit is realistic?

ugh, you're missing the point in fantasy game realism

[Lictor]

ugh, you're missing the point in fantasy game realism

Lictorsupported.

[DioZag]

Realism is not important. what is important is to be able to kill someone that runs into water to save himself.

So underwater archery should stay in.


But it IS kind of funny that you cant do magic underwater, but you can fire an arrow. Its good though because you have to surface to cast heal self or mana to stam.

[Lavalya]

K are you fucking kidding with this statement? Ive seen a few people claim this same thing. Yes you could shoot a bow above the water into the water and have the arrow go some distance and possibly do some damage. But there is no way you could fire a bow underwater, the bowstring wouldn't do shit and the arrow would go a few feet max.

Im laughing at all the clueless people in this thread. Bows cant stand water at all. The wood loses its elasticity Even damp air can effect some wood types. Magic underwater however, would be limited but realistic. But why judge a fantasy game for its lack of realism?

[Arwyn]

To those who whine about some things not beeing realistic in this game, then you better whine about magic too, since i've heard that shooting firebolts etc is not realistic.

I vote 1

[Viluin]

1.

If you allow players to swim an infinite distance and dive for 15 seconds and not have MORE sharks/barracudas/piranhas, then you need to allow players to attack them in and under water.

If not, water will become a safe zone. With this world being 5 major islands, that is not an acceptable solution.

The problem can be solved by reducing underwater swimming speed. Right now you're a sitting duck in the water, there's no way to dodge underwater arrows, you're too slow. Water should just be melee territory.

[Lictor]

To those who whine about some things not beeing realistic in this game, then you better whine about magic too, since i've heard that shooting firebolts etc is not realistic.

I vote 1

There is realism and realism, you know? :rolleyes:

[McDoogs]

Just so we are all on the same page...

When I shoot arrows underwater, they never hit. I have not tested it extensively, but I have done it from point blank range against a friend and he never gets hit. It does run the animation and release the arrow, but no hit is registered and no damage is received. So I just want to make it clear that the ability to shoot underwater, while present, does not allow for damage to occur.

But one can "jump" out of the water and hit someone on land. But you cannot while you are treading water. Anyone can feel free to add on to these game mechanics.

You have terrible aim or are bugged.

[Prometheas]

NO, this bug needs to be fixed and here is why.


Water is the natural defense from mounts, but if you go swimming to get away from 2 riders and one dismounts and uses the bow glitch, it is impossible to get away.


What SHOULD be allowed is firing arrows INTO the water from above, even if its kind of unrealistic for them to go very far, it would be a lot more fun and still let people get killed. Bow underwater right now is way overpowered.

[M0rBiD]

Leave it, you can't load an arrow underwater, you have to bob back up, get the arrow ready, go back in and fire.
Plus, why run from arrows? You know you will die, dmg is maxed while hit from the back. Sit and fight.

[ermorden]

1

Haven't you ever been spear fishing?

Yeah, with a fucking speargun you moron. You are trying to compare a hawaiian sling or some other speargun to firing a bow underwater? Moronic. The answer is obviously that it wasn't intended and should be fixed. They do need to fix the way arrows hit the water though, they should go in 10 feet or so before they dissipate.

[ermorden]

Leave it, you can't load an arrow underwater, you have to bob back up, get the arrow ready, go back in and fire.
Plus, why run from arrows? You know you will die, dmg is maxed while hit from the back. Sit and fight.

Very Good point. +1

[Deltus]

keep it

having ppl run in the water for safety is alrdy an annoyance...

dont make it worse

agree

[Robin392]

K are you fucking kidding with this statement? Ive seen a few people claim this same thing. Yes you could shoot a bow above the water into the water and have the arrow go some distance and possibly do some damage. But there is no way you could fire a bow underwater, the bowstring wouldn't do shit and the arrow would go a few feet max.

From someone who is an archer in real life and has even done this on a fishing trip with a longbow (traditional english style bow, just a stick and string), yes it works, yes it goes far. However, it's definately not as accurate.

[Xenkoriu]

Arrows should not be able to shoot through water very well when fired from above, the water throws off the trajectory. Also, I wouldn't think firing a bow under water would work very well, but I don't have the experience to say so lol

[AesirV]

Archers are overpowered in general. This is not some noob crying about getting hit this is a simple reality. Mages get totally butt fucked while a 20skill in archery can take down a mount with relative ease.

As for the topic:

Its clear that shooting arrows underwater is a glitch. Its completely obvious because you have to rise to the surface to load it which begs the question, if it was intended, why you couldnt do the same thing underneath. Ill tell you why, beacuse they either A) Overlooked it or (much more likely) B) Simply havent had time to fix it with all the other imbalances this game currently has.

[Xorv]

The problem can be solved by reducing underwater swimming speed. Right now you're a sitting duck in the water, there's no way to dodge underwater arrows, you're too slow. Water should just be melee territory.

No it shouldn't be melee territory. Most melee weapons would be nearly as hard to use as a bow under water, and virtually all armor would be a non starter.

If they get rid of firing a bow under water, they can limit melee weapons to the knife for use in water, and make you take massive stamina drain while trying to swim in any amor heavier than cloth.

..but lets just leave it as it is and allow some water magic spells to work underwater.

[Sabbathius]

From realism standpoint, it is possible to fire a bow in water, though the release velocity would be considerably diminished. I used a speargun underwater, and it was effective, because the gun had no limbs like the (cross)bow does. If it had them, it would be weak.

So my vote is to keep it as it is, allow shooting in water, but reduce the damage 50%. Why? Because currently it is too easy to escape from someone in the water. I often die on the continent, but since I figured out how to move effectively in water, I don't die anymore when I'm on the islands or on shore, it's too easy to escape unscathed. There has to be something people can do to stop a swimmer.

[Viluin]

No it shouldn't be melee territory. Most melee weapons would be nearly as hard to use as a bow under water, and virtually all armor would be a non starter.

If they get rid of firing a bow under water, they can limit melee weapons to the knife for use in water, and make you take massive stamina drain while trying to swim in any amor heavier than cloth.

..but lets just leave it as it is and allow some water magic spells to work underwater.

It's not about realism, it's about fun. Archery is extremely powerful in the water, you can't dodge any arrows at all because you're too slow when changing directions. Swimming anywhere at all is guaranteed death if an exploiting archer catches you by surprise.

[Karter]

K are you fucking kidding with this statement? Ive seen a few people claim this same thing. Yes you could shoot a bow above the water into the water and have the arrow go some distance and possibly do some damage. But there is no way you could fire a bow underwater, the bowstring wouldn't do shit and the arrow would go a few feet max.

I'll get one of my shitty bows and try it this weekend... see if it actually goes across a pool...