50 Fire Magic and i wanna cry

[Docan]

FireBall Spell - cost 28 mana, more then firebolt, requires 1 nacre 1 sulfur, and does less damage then firebolt. The spell has a little bit bigger AOE. I'm kinda sad that this spell is so weak. This spell also has a longer cool down then firebolt.

Explosion- supposed to cast an aoe around the player and damage him and everyone around him. Currently it only damages players under you and has small radius. Also with.7 damage staff only does about 23-24 damage. Think they have z-axis number wrong for this spell. Also this spell cost 0 reagents but will not give fire skill/ fire sub skill gains.

I think dev's need to improve these spells, because as they stand they are completely useless.

/discuss

[Kurzgan]

Ouch.

maybe....it gets better? lol

[SFXtreme3]

Magic, in its current state, sucks.

I'll have 50 air magic soon and while I'm satisfied with Ball of Lightning's damage and Lightning Bolt's animation, the overall damage progression among leveled skills is terrible.

Ball of Lightning and Lightning Bolt's are both 25+. BoL does 20-24/22-30 (front/back) damage and Lightning Bolt does 18-20/20-24 damage with starter wand. There isn't an noticible difference in damage when using Traitor's (20+) or Deerstick (60+).

The way it stands, there is no reason to take 2 elementals. One is enough, especially since debuffs are... broken. They are so similar that multiple schools is really unnecessary.

I'll be maxing LM/GM/Air before going onto anything else.

[Khumash-Gor]

this shit makes me mad that i went magic. df was supposed to have an awesome magic system and mages were supposed to be very powerful... what we see is the exact opposite.

[Aaxel11]

Mage went from crystal canon to 5 years old crystal water gun ...pew pew

[Mennovh]

damn thats pretty gay. was lookign forward to it. mine is at 47. is it costing you voer 1k sulfur per point now?

[Docan]

little over 1k per point 48+

[Estrang]

Looks like ill continue playing 10 year old emulated games untill this game polishes up the basics. =/

[Khumash-Gor]

where are you guys getting your sulfur from?

I mine a lot and kill trolls whenever i can, but im constantly running low.

[inademv]

All of these complaints about the damage being too low are completely groundless until you have obtained and leveled both of the intensity skills for magic (the one for the specific tree and the one for 75 greater magic/75 greater magic mana efficency).

[rwp80]

where are you guys getting your sulfur from?

I mine a lot and kill trolls whenever i can, but im constantly running low.

If you're a friendless mage you would need to mine, mine, and mine some more.

It's Aventurine's clever way of linking the gathering skills' base stat increases with the relevant reagents for the skills that use that same base stat. (Not clever.)

You are a mage that needs Intelligence and mining metal for sulphur gives you Strength. Next they'll implement a baby-blood gathering skill to give you Charisma.

In hindsight, maybe they're trying to force players to gather according to the stat boosts they want and trading the reagents you dont need for the reagents that you do.

Personally, I just do the big three (Herbalism, Mining, Logging) myself instead of getting tied up in trades. My stats are pretty well-rounded which suits my intended build. If you're pure mage then break out those Scythes and start spamming "WTT Herbs for Sulphur".

[In Nox]

All of these complaints about the damage being too low are completely groundless until you have obtained and leveled both of the intensity skills for magic (the one for the specific tree and the one for 75 greater magic/75 greater magic mana efficency).

Oops, I guess I forgot this bullshit excuse in my reply. Yeah we need to reach 100 Elem, buy elem intensify, and then buy the Masteries from high INT and high GM. Maybe, oh just maybe then, it will be worth casting one of these spells after we have grinded out hundreds of thousands of gold and wasted months of game time.

Yeah, no problems there.

;)

[Docan]

When a lv 50 spell does less damage then lv 1 spell, you can complain

[Tzacharu]

where are you guys getting your sulfur from?

I mine a lot and kill trolls whenever i can, but im constantly running low.

A Quarry.

That is.. if its not empty. They really need to make it a pop respawn rather than at a slow rate.

I've got 1k sulfur saved up in my bank to get me to 50 GM, but to be honest the fastest way is probably to buy it off other players.

[Pokra]

it's the skill system that fails here. there should not be a separate skill for the individual spells. you get to 50 elemental to get a lvl 1 elemental spell, it's not gonna measure up to your lvl 1 elemental spell that you've already skilled up a rank or two. it's counter-intuitive, grind-intensive, and frustrating.

[Docan]

From what ive tested spells do not get increase in damage as you level them up. They only get a longer duration/more range/bigger aoe. Now when you hit 100 with the spell you will get 1 cast that is more damage.

[Khumash-Gor]

A Quarry.

That is.. if its not empty. They really need to make it a pop respawn rather than at a slow rate.

I've got 1k sulfur saved up in my bank to get me to 50 GM, but to be honest the fastest way is probably to buy it off other players.

i am almost always the first one to my clans quarry when the servers come up

[TheDor]

Yep, I agree, the main thing that seems to piss people off if getting to the next "teir" of magic, only to get crappy level 1 spells. The thing you need to realize though is that each new teir of spells are different.

What I mean is, you won't be using Explosion the same way that you use Fire Bolt, so the damage difference between the two shouldn't matter, they're for 2 completely different situations.

What you're doing is complaining that Heal Mount doesn't heal as much as Heal Self, it's just dumb.

If you want to complain that you can't kill someone using a full mana bar with Fire Bolt, but you can with Mana Missile, that is a valid complaint. And definately something that needs to be tweaked.

[Docan]

Yep, I agree, the main thing that seems to piss people off if getting to the next "teir" of magic, only to get crappy level 1 spells. The thing you need to realize though is that each new teir of spells are different.

What I mean is, you won't be using Explosion the same way that you use Fire Bolt, so the damage difference between the two shouldn't matter, they're for 2 completely different situations.

What you're doing is complaining that Heal Mount doesn't heal as much as Heal Self, it's just dumb.

If you want to complain that you can't kill someone using a full mana bar with Fire Bolt, but you can with Mana Missile, that is a valid complaint. And definately something that needs to be tweaked.

Dor did you even read my post? I am complaining about firebolt being stronger then fireball which is supposed to be a better version of firebolt. I never compared explosion to firebolt.

And explosion is completely bugged and does not have a aoe.

[Kheiron]

Did you use Firebolt to level?

One of the more common complaints I see from magic users is they've levelled a previous spell up to 50 or so to unlock a higher tier spell and then start spazzing out when thier new level 1 spell is not an instant 200% damage increase over thier lower ranked level 50.

[Docan]

From what i have tested rank does not effect damage only staffs do

[Lucia Lunaris]

:bang:are you guys complaining about ?

I am firemage at 24 magery and 35 firebolt and i like my damage.

Its about 30-40 (naked people, front less bnack more damage) and about 25-30 on trolls. And its still rising. For sure when i got 25 and i start zu use dragonbreath this spell will be less powerful than firebolt cause its at skill 1.

THATS the way it is. Stop that whining. Damn carebeers.....

Sulfur u can mine, get from trolls, buy from players. Right now i never had a problem to get some sulfur.

And btw. air for example should be less powerfull cause it rises faster than water/fire (check forum for this) and it s also to support archers so if u are archer choose air. Pure mages choose water/fire.

For heavens sake i cant stand this whining.

Lucia Lunaris

p.s. sorry for my bad engl. i am german but i think u get what i want to say....:bang:

[Zunk]

Ouch.

maybe....it gets better? lol

riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiite

and air does less dmg but does about 2x more stamina damage

[Ramladu]

When a lv 50 spell does less damage then lv 1 spell, you can complain

How about complaining that spells that took grinding TWO skills to 50 at the cost of over 3000 reagents is less combat-useful than archery at rank 25.

Or complaining that the elemental starter nukes (or hell, even a rank 50 nuke in Fireball's case) that take 2 reagents are less mana efficient than the reagent-free spell we started the game with?

Or complaining that, using the supposedly most powerful spells in the game, we can't kill someone with a full mana bar unless they're naked, standing still, facing away from us and we're using a rank 60 high damage staff. Hell, we STILL might fail if our target has decent HP and mitigation skills. Meanwhile, an archer kills the same person with 8 bow shots at a TOTAL cost of 15% of their stamina bar. Obviously these numbers aren't exact - but I think everyone knows how much more combat-useful low to mid ranked archery is than the magic of mages that put much, much more time and effort into their skills.

Magery has more booster skills, that's a certainty. I think the main problem is that you shouldn't be required to get those to even make magic a viable combat option. Right now, unless you have hundreds of major mana potions lying around, your only real option as a mage is to burn through your mana bar in 20 seconds and pull out a bow.

[inademv]

Dor did you even read my post? I am complaining about firebolt being stronger then fireball which is supposed to be a better version of firebolt. I never compared explosion to firebolt.

And explosion is completely bugged and does not have a aoe.

Firebolt is to eldrich sphere as fireball is to mana missile

[NurfedRekuul]

I've been waiting for this thread. Thank you.

I have 52 air magic and a guildie of mine has **64** air magic. We get a lightning explosion similar to fireball that has a splash that is about the same as a rank 50 mana missile and a whopping 6-10 dmg more per shot with a 5 second cooldown and a 28 mana cost.

That means if I were to spam my lightning AoE I'd do less DPS than spamming mana missile and would run out of mana before killing anyone.

Magic needs to be buffed, plain and simple. The basic air/fire/water/earth attacks are fine. They do plenty of damage and will only get better, but the advanced skills are NOT good even for a "starting point".

Also (and I think most casters here will agree) the resist buffs are a complete joke. I have 40 skill into arrow ward and it still only adds 1 resist to arrow damage. I'm sure the lightning ward will be the same and its ridiculous that a spell that only reduces lightning damage only shields one damage.

Honestly, its like they just churned out some basic values for magic and never tested it. In fact, I think thats exactly what they did.

[inademv]

Oops, I guess I forgot this bullshit excuse in my reply. Yeah we need to reach 100 Elem, buy elem intensify, and then buy the Masteries from high INT and high GM. Maybe, oh just maybe then, it will be worth casting one of these spells after we have grinded out hundreds of thousands of gold and wasted months of game time.

Yeah, no problems there.

;)

Cry me a river. Magic wouldn't be nearly as strong as it is if it didn't require the effort/time investment that it does.

[NurfedRekuul]

Cry me a river. Magic wouldn't be nearly as strong as it is if it didn't require the effort/time investment that it does.

Dear idiot,

The point is that its not strong.

Sincerely,

Mages

[Aramir]

it's the skill system that fails here. there should not be a separate skill for the individual spells. you get to 50 elemental to get a lvl 1 elemental spell, it's not gonna measure up to your lvl 1 elemental spell that you've already skilled up a rank or two. it's counter-intuitive, grind-intensive, and frustrating.

Well I agree partially. Different skills for every spell is ok BUT only if school skill level affects spell power. Now magic skills are broken, because school skill only unlocks new spells (and doesnt affect spell damage, in fact school skill level doesnt do anything except unlocking spells). That means with level 50 elemental magic your new spell is weaker than level 1 unlocked spell - ie firebolt (with is at level ~50+ now).
If 50% damage bonus would come from school skill and 50% from spell skill level then situation that new spell is weaker than old woudnt exist (if new spell really has greater damage at same level as old spell).

[inademv]

Dear idiot,

The point is that its not strong.

Sincerely,

Mages

Arrow speed spell that hits for 50 in the back without the applicable "mastery" skill that increases damage. Yeah, that's not strong.

[inademv]

Well I agree partially. Different skills for every spell is ok BUT only if school skill level affects spell power. Now magic skills are broken, because school skill only unlocks new spells (and doesnt affect spell damage, in fact school skill level doesnt do anything except unlocking spells). That means with level 50 elemental magic your new spell is weaker than level 1 unlocked spell - ie firebolt (with is at level ~50+ now).
If 50% damage bonus would come from school skill and 50% from spell skill level then situation that new spell is weaker than old woudnt exist (if new spell really has greater damage at same level as old spell).

This is because the different spells have different applications. Why would there even be a spell that you can buy later and can level up that would completely replace the one that you had previously been using?

[Ramladu]

Arrow speed spell that hits for 50 in the back without the applicable "mastery" skill that increases damage. Yeah, that's not strong.

It's not that strong when you realize you can only cast 8-9 of them before running out of mana, and 50 is an absolute max that is rarely attained. Most of them hit for somewhere in the 30s rear, 20s frontal.

Archery, on the other hand, with about 50 skill and a rank 40 bow, will hit for mid 20s to mid 30s in the back depending on the target's armor. Not only that, but even if you're sprinting the whole time you can rail off many times more arrows in one stamina bar than a mage can cast nukes in one mana bar.

Also, the time and effort it takes to get to 50+ archery is miniscule compared to the time and effort it takes to even START elemental magic, let alone get your arrow nuke to the skill level that would allow for 50 damage rear hits.

Let's not forget that Archery gets specialty abilities as well and has a much easier to obtain "reagent". Or that Archery isn't effected nearly as much by armor. Yes, magery gets more booster skills than archery does, but their total effect is not fully known nor should booster skills be required to even make the entire skill set useful, let alone powerful.

Put it this way - if I cast spells at the rate your normal archer shoots arrows, even if they're fucking mana missiles I'll run out of mana before your stamina bar hits the 60% mark (and do half the total damage or less), and that's our most mana efficient damage spell (awesome, right?). Maybe I'm way off base - maybe it's archery that needs adjustment (in the negative direction of course). Either way, magery is just not where it needs to be in relation to archery OR melee.

[Lictor]

It's not that strong when you realize you can only cast 8-9 of them before running out of mana, and 50 is an absolute max that is rarely attained. Most of them hit for somewhere in the 30s rear, 20s frontal.

Archery, on the other hand, with about 50 skill and a rank 40 bow, will hit for mid 20s to mid 30s in the back depending on the target's armor. Not only that, but even if you're sprinting the whole time you can rail off many times more arrows in one stamina bar than a mage can cast nukes in one mana bar.

Also, the time and effort it takes to get to 50+ archery is miniscule compared to the time and effort it takes to even START elemental magic, let alone get your arrow nuke to the skill level that would allow for 50 damage rear hits.

Let's not forget that Archery gets specialty abilities as well and has a much easier to obtain "reagent". Or that Archery isn't effected nearly as much by armor. Yes, magery gets more booster skills than archery does, but their total effect is not fully known nor should booster skills be required to even make the entire skill set useful, let alone powerful.

Put it this way - if I cast spells at the rate your normal archer shoots arrows, even if they're fucking mana missiles I'll run out of mana before your stamina bar hits the 60% mark (and do half the total damage or less), and that's our most mana efficient damage spell (awesome, right?). Maybe I'm way off base - maybe it's archery that needs adjustment (in the negative direction of course). Either way, magery is just not where it needs to be in relation to archery OR melee.

Roll archer then... :rolleyes:

[uo97to03]

Roll archer then... :rolleyes:

this isnt wow FOTM, were in a sandbox game and it needs balanced immediately.

[arghysteelwill]

Docan sells himself to guildies for sulfur and i told ya docan these are the same guys who were defending greater magic- their all insane. If fireball doesnt do anything different from firebolt why does it exist? i expected maybe higher damage longer cool down/cost or perhaps larger AE.

80% of the game is unfinished or broken magic is not the lucky 20%.

[Ramladu]

Roll archer then... :rolleyes:

I don't want to be an archer - I want to be a mage. If playing a game was all about being the most powerful all the time, I'd have scrapped magery sometime after I realized that greater magic damage spells are worse than skill level 1 archery. I don't want magery to be the far and away most powerful role, I just want some semblance of balance so I feel that the dozens upon dozens of hours I've spent working my magic up is at least enough to hold my own in a fight against anyone with similar skill levels.

I can't expect perfect balance, but when it's so blatantly obvious that magery is the weakest damage role by far, something needs adjustment.

The worst part isn't even necessarily the relative uselessness of magery, it's that our most mana efficient and effective damage spell is the piece of shit we started with. Magery scales backwards right now.

[Lictor]

this isnt wow FOTM, were in a sandbox game and it needs balanced immediately.

Expressive nickname! :D

[Lictor]

I don't want to be an archer - I want to be a mage. If playing a game was all about being the most powerful all the time, I'd have scrapped magery sometime after I realized that greater magic damage spells are worse than skill level 1 archery. I don't want magery to be the far and away most powerful role, I just want some semblance of balance so I feel that the dozens upon dozens of hours I've spent working my magic up is at least enough to hold my own in a fight against anyone with similar skill levels.

I can't expect perfect balance, but when it's so blatantly obvious that magery is the weakest damage role by far, something needs adjustment.

The worst part isn't even necessarily the relative uselessness of magery, it's that our most mana efficient and effective damage spell is the piece of shit we started with. Magery scales backwards right now.

yeah, I know. I was just 'sarcasming'. ;)

[Arcador]

Guys, although it seems the spells need tweaking and balancing, please when comparing spells include all factors:

- damage (hp, stamina, whatever this is)
- mana cost
- reagent consumption
- level of school
- level of spell
- cooldown of the spell
- range of the spell
- casting time of the spell
- speed/type of projective/AOE

-staff/weapon type
-armor/robe type
-inteligence

[Polluxo]

I'm in the buff/balance magic boat. If a spell is going to suck more than another spell, it should cost less mana, not more. If a spell takes a considerable amount of time to be activated, it should be at least slightly better than the previous spell, or just make all spells available at level 1.

[wolfblackclaw]

Read about the magic system before complaining about it, your damage with a spell is dependent on both your magic school level and the skill with the specific spell, so of course when you first learn to cast a spell it's gonna suck cause you're pretty much just an idiot holding a shiny spelltome.
If you get to 50 fire magic and buy fireball and that's only a little worse than firebolt, then consider how powerful it can get once you actually start using it and increasing your level with it.

[Bomanz]

Hmm...Mana Efficiency skill seems to reduce Mana Missile by almost %50 when it is skill level 100. IMO just use your most powerful, expensive nukes for hitting Mobs and players in the back. Magic Missile is going to be my bread and butter for a while.

The rate of skill gain does seem a little slow, that's all.

[grytkungen]

Read about the magic system before complaining about it, your damage with a spell is dependent on both your magic school level and the skill with the specific spell, so of course when you first learn to cast a spell it's gonna suck cause you're pretty much just an idiot holding a shiny spelltome.
If you get to 50 fire magic and buy fireball and that's only a little worse than firebolt, then consider how powerful it can get once you actually start using it and increasing your level with it.

No, it doesnt get more powerful. Its fucking crap.

Another important aspect my magic sucks is cause it drains your bar in 8-9 casts. Maybe at higher level, it will be up to 15 casts. The problem is STILL, you need the mana for mana-to-stam and stam-to-health. If you ever tried being a serious pvper, you know these spells are the bread and butter for everything. If youre gonna be a mage which may on a high level throw 15 casts (where you miss two or three), youll be fucked up for the fight cause you cant go stam-to-health and whatever.

Magic needs fixing in numerous aspects. Anyone saying anything else is just stupid in the head.

[Barbaroi]

Hmm...Mana Efficiency skill seems to reduce Mana Missile by almost %50 when it is skill level 100. IMO just use your most powerful, expensive nukes for hitting Mobs and players in the back. Magic Missile is going to be my bread and butter for a while.

The rate of skill gain does seem a little slow, that's all.

lol who said mana efficiency reduce mana cost for MM on 50%? i got 70+ Mana Eff, and my MM costs 6,55
8-6,55=1,45 only reduce

so i believe it will be about 20%... not too much. but its nice for a spell that didnt require a reagent.

[Avant]

All of these complaints about the damage being too low are completely groundless until you have obtained and leveled both of the intensity skills for magic (the one for the specific tree and the one for 75 greater magic/75 greater magic mana efficency).

you do realise those skills only apply to the schools they're in right?

So intensify lesser increases lesser magic damage..

[Arkh]

Were you thinking that magic = win button ? Feels like you were wrong.
Mage complaining is starting to get old : just use melee or archery if this is OP. If you want to roleplay a pure mage, don't whine.
Should pure melee whine because they don't have stamina skills or a high jump skill ? No, they just skill a little magery to get the corresponding spells.

Don't bitch, adapt.

[Gadzy]

If playing a game was all about being the most powerful all the time, I'd have scrapped magery sometime after I realized that greater magic damage spells are worse than skill level 1 archery.

So, what's the problem? You don't want to be powerful..

[Barbaroi]

dont mess utility magery and dmg spells

[NurfedRekuul]

Were you thinking that magic = win button ? Feels like you were wrong.
Mage complaining is starting to get old : just use melee or archery if this is OP. If you want to roleplay a pure mage, don't whine.
Should pure melee whine because they don't have stamina skills or a high jump skill ? No, they just skill a little magery to get the corresponding spells.

Don't bitch, adapt.

Don't adapt, bitch.

Because the skills need to be balanced and the developers need to hear it from everyone unfortunate enough to have sunk their time and effort into raising spell schools and skills.

All of the required mage skills are in lesser magic and archers and melee users recieve all the benefits they need by just getting decent lesser magic. When mages skill up their melee and archery skills a comparable amount they still don't have access to the premium archery and melee skills that provide large damage boosts. So while archery and melee go up tremendous amounts of dmg and never get less effective (in any way) magery gets less effective as you move to higher skills.

In conclusion, you have no idea what you are talking about and should probably exit the conversation before causing any further embarrassment to yourself.

[Barbaroi]

right man

[roggo]

Anyone heard of hp2mana? With this spell you can cast a lot more spells than 8-9...

This is how they did it also in AC. It was all about balancing hp/sta/mana.

I think its good that mana burns faster than stamina. If you would burn at the same rate and archer would be screwed very fast, and also a mage with 0 mana can still do many things.

Yes, it is not like in WoW. Yes, you need to adapt as someone said. Yes, you need to think what you want to do and how.

[NurfedRekuul]

HP to mana is good, and yes it helps in certain situations. But if we are looking at best DPS and best use of pools you are still better off going archery in every standard situation.

You will need to HP to mana before killing a person if you are using elemental magic (and they arent standing still with their back to you). Due to the time it takes to cast the HP to mana, the time it takes the mana to enter your pool, and the amount of drain caused to all three of your pools; you're always better off simply shooting arrows. Because archery causes less overall pool drain, and has equal or greater DPS because you won't need to switch out to mana->stam unless its an extended fight.

[Barbaroi]

Anyone heard of hp2mana? With this spell you can cast a lot more spells than 8-9...

This is how they did it also in AC. It was all about balancing hp/sta/mana.

I think its good that mana burns faster than stamina. If you would burn at the same rate and archer would be screwed very fast, and also a mage with 0 mana can still do many things.

Yes, it is not like in WoW. Yes, you need to adapt as someone said. Yes, you need to think what you want to do and how.
ok but why mana regen lower then stamina regen? and why food didnt restore mana as stamina or hp?

[Arkh]

Don't adapt, bitch.

Because the skills need to be balanced and the developers need to hear it from everyone unfortunate enough to have sunk their time and effort into raising spell schools and skills.

All of the required mage skills are in lesser magic and archers and melee users recieve all the benefits they need by just getting decent lesser magic. When mages skill up their melee and archery skills a comparable amount they still don't have access to the premium archery and melee skills that provide large damage boosts. So while archery and melee go up tremendous amounts of dmg and never get less effective (in any way) magery gets less effective as you move to higher skills.

In conclusion, you have no idea what you are talking about and should probably exit the conversation before causing any further embarrassment to yourself.
An archer will greatly benefit from some self dext or quick buff. Same thing for strength and vitality. And no, it's not lesser magic. Neither GM.
But hey ! You're a pure mage, you sure know all there's to know about melee and archery too.

Melee and archers are OP ? Get the skills. I mean, it's a skill based game not a class based one so you're not bound to whatever thing you're doing and seems too low for you. And the HP and Stam' you'll get doing this will help you when trying magic back with some health to mana spell to help you.

[KetuIMO]

you do realise those skills only apply to the schools they're in right?

So intensify lesser increases lesser magic damage..

erm... that's exactly what he says in the quote you posted. but he also mentioned Mana Conservation skill...which is also correct

learn to read imo.

[Psymon]

Everyone thinks there will be a magic switch that suddenly makes magic NOT suck. Lets all keep hoping it exsists.

[Ramladu]

So, what's the problem? You don't want to be powerful..

I don't recall saying I didn't want to be powerful, I said I don't necessarily need to be the most powerful. I'd honestly be fine with the idea that magic gives you versatility at the cost of the pure, steady damage archery provides. Unfortunately, buffs are incredibly weak, debuffs don't work and that damage comes in the form of a 20 second burst that can't even finish off a target from the front. That is unless, of course, they're afk and you're using mana missile.

Right now mages are no more versatile than anyone else. In fact, we're probably less versatile than anyone else because of our reliance on mana for damage, while non-mage types can freely use their mana for more effective things like additional stamina and healing without effecting their damage output.

Anyway, I figure things will get adjusted at some point. I'd rather it be this way - mages being second rate - than seeing mages blowing entire groups to shreds from atop walls and roofs. I'm perfectly fine with the damage amounts of most spells...it's the mana usage and scaling that's out of whack. Like I said before, it's pretty ridiculous that my most used, most reliable and most mana efficient damage spell is the piece of shit I started with and not one of the abilities I spent 3 weeks of borderline insane playing time to obtain (gathering 3500 reagents with minimal guild help is not easy).

I don't see people bitching that mana missile is overpowered, so I'm thinking it'd be ok to adjust the mana cost of arrow nukes to something more reasonable - maybe even make the mana cost scale downwards as the skill goes up while keeping the damage the same. I'd be ecstatic if I could nuke reliably for 20-25 damage at 15 mana a pop, reagents be damned. I use arrow nukes because they're fast traveling nukes with virtually no splash...they're the magic version of archery, so I could see them being magery's best for quick, single-target ranged damage.

[Gadzy]

So you want buffs? No, seriously?

Have you heard of that one game called 'Darkfall'. Try reading up on it's purpose. ;)

[Beltara]

I cast 6 icicles at my opponent and then swap to bow/melee, that's the way it goes currently and I am not complaining because I have different ways to kill!

Gotta love hitting runners in the back for 40 damage and 10 stamina per cast. :)

[Ldstaxx]

I am going a Mage build as well, however I have a question.

Is the damage for the Magic to weak in general? or is it just to weak to the OP archers? It seems to me that the second is more of a issue.

I think we all see fully plated archers doing insane damage with no sacrifices and go WTF . Really, archery damage needs to be halved with a armor penalty and then we might be able to stay... Ok we can do some decent damage for the effort it takes.

This doesn’t address the scaling issues but it would be a start

[Mennovh]

So much fun spending tens of thousands of gold to only get a crappier spell. Hehe. SO glad i spent all thsoe hours farming to buy sulfur only to get a spell that does less damage than firebolt did at level one.

[Ramladu]

Could be that archery needs the tuning, can't disagree with you there.

Elemental magic damage is fine - the problem is how fast you drain your mana pool.

Thinking about it, with maxed out mana efficiency (both universal and school specific...guessing somewhere around 33%), Archmage, intensity for the school and the mana pool buff, magic might be way TOO powerful. I can only imagine what people will say if your standard arrow nukes at 75 skill are hitting for 70 damage in the back and a mage has enough mana to cast 20+ times before running out, not to mention having the best AoE ability. There would be no end to the crying - and for good reason.

The problem is that the scaling would truly begin near the end of a mage's progression and it would scale far too high far too fast once you reach that point. I just want some of that relative power to be spread out so that we scale at a similar pace compared to other skill sets.

So you want buffs? No, seriously?

Have you heard of that one game called 'Darkfall'. Try reading up on it's purpose.

Pretty sure it's purpose isn't to make a major skill path useless when held up next to the others. There ARE skill caps, or so we've been lead to believe, and that would make one assume that you can't go full into the magic trees (including the booster abilities for your chosen schools) while still being able to max everything in melee and/or archery.

Like grytkungen said - magic needs fixing in numerous aspects. Anyone saying anything else is just stupid in the head.

[Dolmar]

:bang:are you guys complaining about ?

I am firemage at 24 magery and 35 firebolt and i like my damage.

Its about 30-40 (naked people, front less bnack more damage) and about 25-30 on trolls. And its still rising. For sure when i got 25 and i start zu use dragonbreath this spell will be less powerful than firebolt cause its at skill 1.

THATS the way it is. Stop that whining. Damn carebeers.....

Sulfur u can mine, get from trolls, buy from players. Right now i never had a problem to get some sulfur.

And btw. air for example should be less powerfull cause it rises faster than water/fire (check forum for this) and it s also to support archers so if u are archer choose air. Pure mages choose water/fire.

For heavens sake i cant stand this whining.

Lucia Lunaris

p.s. sorry for my bad engl. i am german but i think u get what i want to say....:bang:
You cant chose water and fire..

[Dolmar]

Tell me though ! WHY SHOULD I SPEND 20000 IN GOLD for regs ...
just to do the same dmg as a single arrow ...

[Barbaroi]

TRY MAGIC AT 100!
oh and i forgot spend 100k more reagents and half year

[wanderingdrunk]

Any of you noobs ever tried health to mana? :ninja:

Just about the most useful skill ever.

[Lictor]

Tell me though ! WHY SHOULD I SPEND 20000 IN GOLD for regs ...
just to do the same dmg as a single arrow ...

If you were a true magic fanboi you would do that without blinking!

[Barbaroi]

Any of you noobs ever tried health to mana? :ninja:

Just about the most useful skill ever.

yea use it in pvp
my bow sure will like it

[korupt]

I just gotta ask something, why does not people roll straight arcane/necro? I thought the requirement was 100 GM, but does it require any of the elementals?

Sorry for the noob question, but why do not people roll straight arcane/necro, surly they have to be a bit better?

Sorry for the noob.

[Arkh]

Tell me though ! WHY SHOULD I SPEND 20000 IN GOLD for regs ...
just to do the same dmg as a single arrow ...
You don't have to. If bows are OP, just use bows.

[mrichy555]

Oops, I guess I forgot this bullshit excuse in my reply. Yeah we need to reach 100 Elem, buy elem intensify, and then buy the Masteries from high INT and high GM. Maybe, oh just maybe then, it will be worth casting one of these spells after we have grinded out hundreds of thousands of gold and wasted months of game time.

Yeah, no problems there.

;)

If its too hardcore for you go back to polearms with the rest of the noobs

[Barbaroi]

it is easy to say so being a no-lifer

[fitzbean]

It is in Mages blood to whine when they can't kill people in 2 shots. LOL.

[darthlawyer]

If you're a friendless mage you would need to mine, mine, and mine some more.

It's Aventurine's clever way of linking the gathering skills' base stat increases with the relevant reagents for the skills that use that same base stat. (Not clever.)

You are a mage that needs Intelligence and mining metal for sulphur gives you Strength. Next they'll implement a baby-blood gathering skill to give you Charisma.

In hindsight, maybe they're trying to force players to gather according to the stat boosts they want and trading the reagents you dont need for the reagents that you do.

Personally, I just do the big three (Herbalism, Mining, Logging) myself instead of getting tied up in trades. My stats are pretty well-rounded which suits my intended build. If you're pure mage then break out those Scythes and start spamming "WTT Herbs for Sulphur".


Don't forget, that if you just do herbalism, you get the steedgrass. Personally, as herb nodes are rather under-farmed (unlike trying to find a metal spawn) I sell all my steedgrass. Use the money to buy sulfur in trade. I also do a small amount of mining (if I find a metal node that's convenient) and I sell the ore for more cash and keep the sulfur.

But I'd emphasize the cash for steedgrass system. The extra wisdom from herb-gathering helps with the mana pool too.

[Ldstaxx]

Any of you noobs ever tried health to mana? :ninja:

Just about the most useful skill ever.

I love to take 25 points of my own health off in a PvP fight.

[nathanpinard]

Okay, so I'm not a high magic user yet. I haven't macro'd much to begin with. But reading the comments I just had to add something and then pop a few questions:

Lots of mages complaining about spells seem to base it on 1v1. Arrows may hit for more earlier, but they are also single target attacks. Firebolt, and most likely Fireball can hit multiple targets.

Here's the questions I have after reading this thread:

1. What was the damage ranges for Firebolt at level 1? And what are the damage ranges for Fireball at Level 1?

2. How much bigger is the AOE for Fireball?

3. How does the speed of the projectile compare to Firebolt?

4. How big is the Fireball projectile in comparison to Firebolt? (Firebolt seems smaller than MM)

5. What damage difference have you gotten after say...getting to 25? Is it possible it could scale more than Firebolt?


I really think mages should continue to post their suggestions and comments, but asking the devs to change stuff now is still too early.

[PaulOtt]

I'm still a magic newb, so I've got a question for those comparing archery to magic and pointing out the mana usage problems: If you have a huge stack of the best mana pots, do you still run out of mana (and damage) really quickly in comparison to the steady DPS of the archer?

I've always assumed to be a mage in this game you're going to have to be fueling your mana regen constantly with mana pots, but this investment would allow you to have the highest constant DPS in the game. Am I wrong on this?

My problem with magic is two-fold:

1) The spells at 1.0 of a school are so bad as to be nearly useless in combat. Even if they didn't have the reagent cost I would rarely waste the mana to cast them if I didn't have to in order to level up the school. Which means I end up preferring to cast them into the sky instead of trying to actually kill stuff with them. The lack of usefulness of the spells themselves encourage macroing.

2) The tediousness of getting any information about how spells work and how they're supposed to work. I have no problem with discovering things in game and I think that's wonderful if it were implemented well. The problem is, spending thousands of hours leveling up skills only to discover they're very poorly balanced or are lacking in usefulness is extremely frustrating and discourages people from trying new spells and discovering new things. Poor balance and design encourages FOTM builds and bandwagoning.

[Phenax]

Honestly, what do you magic users want? I do not have elemental magic, only a decent level of greater. I mainly do archery and melee.

People often have around 200 health. You want multiple spells to hit 50s? Laughable. You could have 4 spells hitting 50s, and kill someone within an instant. Be happy you do as much damage as you are. Skill 75 blunt 1h weapon at 75+ with power attack in the back of a naked person is 32 max pretty much. This is with a very low range.

Decent level elemental magic probably do more than that, with a large range, and a ranged attack. Many reagents maybe be silly to waste in PvE, but in PvP they are justified in use.

[Erroneous]

Magic clearly does add utility (mana to stam, launch, unburden, telekenisis, and I see spells in the elemental schools that show promise but can't say they are balanced) this is where the value of the time and reagent investment is realized in my opinion.

The problem people are having is with damage. After this investment they are at best on par with archers. But honestly this is vital for the long term balance to hold. The investment should give more options, but it should not give clearly superior damage options.

People have much higher stamina pools than mana pools, but I don't anticipate this to always be the case. Quickness and vitality are easier to raise than intelligence, but eventually the pools will be more comparable after taking into consideration the other drains on stamina.

I think a lot of the higher level magic hasn't been as well tested, and should be adjusted. But I think people are mostly over-reacting to what I think will be better balanced with more developed characters.

TLDR:
Mana pools take longer than stamina pools to reach final specs
Time/reagent invesment should yield more options but not clearly dominant damage options

[Ozkar67]

I really hope they start to buff up magic, for all the work people do for magics, they better be half way decent.

[Gr0mph]

from what i've read these numbers come from the starting staff. have you tried wearing hood/robe etc and checking your damage.. + a better staff?

[In Nox]

The big beef is that we aren't much better than archers while our skills costs thousands of gold, reagents, and hours of gametime to raise.

[Larocco]

has anyone got the 50 earth spell yet?

[Mennovh]

I will level up fireball and elt everyone knwo what kind of damage it does leveled up. I dont see it increasing in damage though. Firebolt only increased in damage by a few points when it hit level 50. I think i may take a week off from leveling fire and spend a few days on archery to get it to 60s hehe. wish magic had the instant returns archery does.

[danknerd]

boo hoo...


Why does everyone always bitch about unbalances in MMO's? I dont get it at all. I mean there doesnt need to be a counter to every skill/spell (or class in some MMO's). Think about it from an overhead bigger perspective like the game of Chess.

In Chess there are different classes that have different objectives and moves. The pawn for instance while the weakest of all pieces on the Chessboard, but has the ability to not just be cannon fodder, but can block and sometimes even put a check (or checkmate) on the King.

The same should apply in an MMO, where some characters just are not as powerful or adept in warfare, but that shouldn't stop anyone from using them, because a skilled player can learn to make any short coming an advantage, especially in certain situations.

If MMO's like Darkfall are supposed to have all balanced characters and such.. Why even have anything different than playing Counter-Strike on a Deagle only server? Thereby eliminating any and all difference and/or advantages so it just breaks down to player skill.

So what! Big deal, magic is what many thought it would be by now, maybe some just need to step back and see/realize that each skill/spell in any spec being design or used has certain advantages and disadvantages even if they arent balanced.

If the most powerful spec is a Polearm/Archery/LM hybrid, I assume most will use this, and guess what then there will be a bunch of cookie cutters peeps out there playing in Agon.. while there will still be those, who choose a different path, while harder to get to and maybe not as effective outright, but they will learn to play such a spec character while everyone else using the Pole/Arch/LM cookie cutter will most likely in the end only know how to defeat others like them... which will bring an advantage to a Pure Caster once they are no longer a nub character (75+ attributes to me would clearly make you no longer a nub)

Just get over and become the flavor of the month or roll your character how you see fit and be a man about it and stop bitching like some unsatisfied wife or some shit. No one is forcing anyone to play this game, vote with your wallet and cancel if it doesnt live up to your wishes and/or if the devs (who own the game) dont care what you think would make it better.

[Skraylok]

FireBall Spell - cost 28 mana, more then firebolt, requires 1 nacre 1 sulfur, and does less damage then firebolt. The spell has a little bit bigger AOE. I'm kinda sad that this spell is so weak. This spell also has a longer cool down then firebolt.

Explosion- supposed to cast an aoe around the player and damage him and everyone around him. Currently it only damages players under you and has small radius. Also with.7 damage staff only does about 23-24 damage. Think they have z-axis number wrong for this spell. Also this spell cost 0 reagents but will not give fire skill/ fire sub skill gains.

I think dev's need to improve these spells, because as they stand they are completely useless.

/discuss

Leveling for the win sir.

[Phenax]

The big beef is that we aren't much better than archers while our skills costs thousands of gold, reagents, and hours of gametime to raise.

Do you think arrows are free? It takes many thousands of arrows to even get a skill point in later levels. And archery only provides offense, while magic has an array of spells for many uses. Magic also scales better in damage than archery.

[Mennovh]

Do you think arrows are free? It takes many thousands of arrows to even get a skill point in later levels. And archery only provides offense, while magic has an array of spells for many uses. Magic also scales better in damage than archery.

It has cost around 30k gold tog et to 50 fire magic. Most likely it has cost more then that. It would be ncie if sulfur only cost .6g each. At the moment with sulfur costing on average 1.75 gold a piece its costing about 2000+ gold per point of fire magic. If not more.

[NurfedRekuul]

I see a lot of people here who havent spent any time skilling up magic talking to a bunch of people who have.

The problem with magic isnt the damage, its the extreme mana costs and lack of utility. At 50 skill in elemental schools mages still havent acquired a better AoE spell than mana missile, and that is just plain ridiculous.

[Docan]

at current market price firebolt is 6g a cast. You cant compare archery to magic.

[danknerd]

at current market price firebolt is 6g a cast. You cant compare archery to magic.

Yeah and Ferrari F430 cost x amount more than Ford F150... life isnt fair or equal, so why should a game try and make fairness and equality exist when it isnt part of human society or nature, going against th grain is illogical and borderline moronic if you ask me.

So you can compare them, each is (firebolt and archery) an attack skill, just like a Ferrari F430 and Ford F150 are both motor vehicles, each of these the skill/spell or vehicle has a specific purpose and design.. along with costs associated with one another.

[VidarDf]

Yeah and Ferrari F430 cost x amount more than Ford F150... life isnt fair or equal, so why should a game try and make fairness and equality exist when it isnt part of human society or nature, going against th grain is illogical and borderline moronic if you ask me.

So you can compare them, each is (firebolt and archery) an attack skill, just like a Ferrari F430 and Ford F150 are both motor vehicles, each of these the skill/spell or vehicle has a specific purpose and design.. along with costs associated with one another.


lame

[EclipsedTerror]

Yeah and Ferrari F430 cost x amount more than Ford F150... life isnt fair or equal, so why should a game try and make fairness and equality exist when it isnt part of human society or nature, going against th grain is illogical and borderline moronic if you ask me.

So you can compare them, each is (firebolt and archery) an attack skill, just like a Ferrari F430 and Ford F150 are both motor vehicles, each of these the skill/spell or vehicle has a specific purpose and design.. along with costs associated with one another.

You realize you just made an analogy in favor of boosting magic and nerfing archery, right? Extremely high burst damage vs slow and consistent.

Sadly the analogy isn't supported by current game mechanics.

[Johnnydanger]

where are you guys getting your sulfur from?

I mine a lot and kill trolls whenever i can, but im constantly running low.

I tend to get my sulfur from doing the timed troll quest in the Ork area repeatedly with a group, or solo, doesn't matter as long as you're smart about it.

you get good amount of gold and a whole lot more sulfur than you would if you were mining.

[Conq]

FireBall Spell - cost 28 mana, more then firebolt, requires 1 nacre 1 sulfur, and does less damage then firebolt. The spell has a little bit bigger AOE. I'm kinda sad that this spell is so weak. This spell also has a longer cool down then firebolt.

No knock back? I was hoping fireball was the spell seen at 1:45 in this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJSm674ql5s

It's a fire magic spell with and AOE knock back. If you look through the fire spell list (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_oy05E0t3INE/SYRdat2Rn-I/AAAAAAAAAq0/1qQyPqLqafg/s1600-h/fire-magic-spells.jpg) there isn't really any spell that could fit it's description other than Fireball. Perhaps Fireball at a higher level adds knock back.

[In Nox]

I tend to get my sulfur from doing the timed troll quest in the Ork area repeatedly with a group, or solo, doesn't matter as long as you're smart about it.

you get good amount of gold and a whole lot more sulfur than you would if you were mining.

I chose water. *sniffles* Where is such a lowly mage as myself to farm?

[Hapless{SR}]

I love these pathetic arguments lol.


Bottom line, you can have your nifty firebolts and have max archery.
People don't seem to understand the idea of 'no classes'

[Mennovh]

I chose water. *sniffles* Where is such a lowly mage as myself to farm?

some mobs drop 20 nacre. Cant remember the name of the mob, but it looks like a lizzard man and spits green stuff at you. they also drop veilron keys. they spawn in a dungeon. Think in the elf lands.

[Mennovh]

I love these pathetic arguments lol.


Bottom line, you can have your nifty firebolts and have max archery.
People don't seem to understand the idea of 'no classes'

pretty sure the arguement is what is the point of raising magery if your level 0 spell does more damage then your level 50 one. hell firebolt does more damage then fireball when it was at 1 skill.

[danknerd]

You realize you just made an analogy in favor of boosting magic and nerfing archery, right? Extremely high burst damage vs slow and consistent.

Sadly the analogy isn't supported by current game mechanics.

no I did not make any such analogy, I only suggested that a certain magic school, or spell has specific purpose of design and cost associated with it as well, just like archery does (and the ferrari [fast car street/racing] vs ford truck [hauling shit and/or going off road, not that either or is magic or archery just the design purposes, utility and costs are different as an example)

the point is the value of such spell is relevant to only the player using it, assigning a cost factor to the same spell is irrelevant since the utility behind the design is the principle factor, bitching about price as in cost of reagent with direct correlation to gold in game is asinine. because it is about the application, not cost, if you really are serious.

so on one side you have x spell that provides y utility
the other side you have b archery that provides c utility

utility is the key here part here, not cost.

many may say well the utility of x spell vs b archery equates to z damage, but then if z damage is what is the main concern, any rational human being that wanted the highest z damage would then forget about both utility and cost of anything that doesnt bring the highest z damage and move forward as such.

so in the end the people bitching about the costs and/or damage are pretty much complaining about how unfair or unequal the choices they made in the world Agon are, which is foolish since you can change your choices at anytime if you are worried and only concerned about the costs and/or damage of a certain skill/spell and the utility behind (the designed purpose).

go ahead a flame me up.. continue to pout, stomp your feet and yell at the sky.. I am a Dagger/Witchcraft-Necromancy spec, everyone laughs and goes HAHAHA you wont do shit in damage, and yes I know this, but I also know I have different purposes than damage.. but yet these same people cry and bitch about how much it costs and how little damage their chosen path does over what the correct path for spec'ing is for damage in darkfall... makes no sense in a logical and rational state of mind.

[Mock]

I'm not a mage type char, so my opinion is probably biased.

I believe elemental spells should get a slight tweaking, very slight. Maybe boost dmg by a very little amount, and reduce cost by a very little amount. Sure it sucks for people who grind that high, expecting awesome spells, only to be let down. Which is why I think they should get a slight tweaking, it's embarrassing to see people with elemental magic be on par with someone who just has Mana Missile. I think it should be a very very small tweak though, try to think of balance.

Currently a pure caster can beat a pure melee 100% of the time if they have decent skill. Sprinting, jump-turn, shoot at their feet, Splash damage will hit even through block. To counter this, Melee pick up archery, because a decent archer will beat a decent mage pretty much every time. So what beats a decent archer? melee of course. A pure archer, will run out of stam long before he can kill a competent sword/boarder.

Basically, in my opinion, it boils down to diversity. Sure you can go pure mage if you want, but don't complain if you lose to archers. If you want to win, pick up secondary skills, to compliment you magic, like sword and shield, stay diverse. Adapt. :)

[Vexrak]

Oops, I guess I forgot this bullshit excuse in my reply. Yeah we need to reach 100 Elem, buy elem intensify, and then buy the Masteries from high INT and high GM. Maybe, oh just maybe then, it will be worth casting one of these spells after we have grinded out hundreds of thousands of gold and wasted months of game time.

Yeah, no problems there.

;)

Your right there IS no problem there. Fucking noob this game is about the long term if its strong now how overpowered do you think its going to be later? Its fine as it is stop crying once you get the masterys you will be a god for a while assuming you get it up fast before other people can.

[In Nox]

Your right there IS no problem there. Fucking noob this game is about the long term if its strong now how overpowered do you think its going to be later? Its fine as it is stop crying once you get the masterys you will be a god for a while assuming you get it up fast before other people can.

Hey next time you hop in your time machine to take a peak at mages in 2011 can I come along for the ride? Thanks.

[valerion]

If you haven't wasted your time to get elemental magic, stop posting here no one cares about your opinion.

A level 1 at skill 1 elemental spell = worse then a level 50 elemental skill at skill 1. and the other spell at 50 just doesn't work at all, thats the problem it needs fixing. only benefit to using elemental is the extra stam dmg currently you can get the same dmg with mm x3 . the spell unlocked in 25 elemental is a joke too. K guys everyone get in a straight line so i can hit you with my "ray" spell.

imo give everyone elemental magic then that unlocks greater at 50 at 50 greater it unlocks lesser magic. lesser magic is the best magic school in the game.

[Borbos]

- slightly increase elemental damage

- slightly decrease elemental mana cost

- slightly increase elemental stamina cost

- in terms of damage: increase the impact your skill level in a specific magic school has, while decreasing impact of actual spell-skill

- completely redesign some of the spells...we dont need 5 types of "missiles" in every friggin school of magic.
like fireball/firebolt - what about making fireball a 30 sec. cooldown attack with massive AE and rather high damage? knockback effect? leaves the ground "burning" for a bit? SOMETHING thats not firebolt v.02?

if any of these changes ruin balance in endgame, with stats/matries maxed...well, nerf these ffs. as it stands right now we probably have to play the game a year before our playstyle of choice starts becoming viable. ty.

[HeliosNorlund]

Bottom line, you can have your nifty firebolts and have max archery.
People don't seem to understand the idea of 'no classes'

no classes = develop your own class = cool
no classes = be able master anything = bullshit

so yes i dislike the idea beeing able master a elemental school and archery and melee on same toon

maybe 2 but not all 3 and if u choose 2 u should still have to be forced to be not able buy every skill u want

i hope skillpoint limit is implemented pretty fast

[Kheiron]

no classes = develop your own class = cool
no classes = be able master anything = bullshit

so yes i dislike the idea beeing able master a elemental school and archery on same toon

So, no classes, so long as they restrict playstyle choices in accordance with your opinion?

Hello classes...

[Borbos]

So, no classes, so long as they restrict playstyle choices in accordance with your opinion?

Hello classes...

beeing able to master everything = game with 1 class
...giev skillcap, giev skill decay

[Kheiron]

beeing able to master everything = game with 1 class
...giev skillcap, giev skill decay

They have that, if the devs are to be believed.
I just dont think anyone has hit it yet.

[smason]

HP to mana is good, and yes it helps in certain situations. But if we are looking at best DPS and best use of pools you are still better off going archery in every standard situation.

You will need to HP to mana before killing a person if you are using elemental magic (and they arent standing still with their back to you). Due to the time it takes to cast the HP to mana, the time it takes the mana to enter your pool, and the amount of drain caused to all three of your pools; you're always better off simply shooting arrows. Because archery causes less overall pool drain, and has equal or greater DPS because you won't need to switch out to mana->stam unless its an extended fight.

Need to get out of the wow frame of mind. This isn't a dps game it's an endurance game. So far I haven't seen any archery dmg that is really more then melée. There really is no spike dmg.

The way you guys are wanting to play a caster isn't how you play one in DF. Other game you nuke them at range, CC them nuke, rinse and repeat. Can't play like that here.

To me casters have a huge advantage over archery and it's splash dmg, lead target fire and you do dmg. There isn't the whole keep target insites at all times as archery.

Magic is good to weaken before they get to you but your going to have to swap to melée once they get in your grill.

It's like you guys are wanting to nuke someone down before they even get close to you. Not going to happen.

[Nerathas]

Personally i have about 28 fire magic and everything expect firebolt is pretty much a disapointment.

The entire magic is sorts of, usally its unpossible to hit moving targets with firebolt. And your bar is out of mana in no time so you dont really have alot of tries.

Its great for hitting people in the back, but with firebolt thats just a rare thing in PvP to be honest...

For pvp its basicly useless going on light armor and try to kill someone with magic. Bit sad its not really viable to go this way at the moment.


And i dont think you quite have an idea about magic yet tbh smason, that tiny aoe hardly makes anything up. Projectiles just move way to slow to be effective enough.

I would be way more efficient in banded or higher and with melee/archery.

Magic needs alot more tweaking, but i am sure it will happen eventually.

[FastEddy]

I have really only tried Firebolt up to level 22 in Fire magic (Firebolt to like 30ish).

It does do nice damage but it is nothing compared to the damage that my archery would be doing if I had put my time into that instead.

Not to mention I could do said archery damage in fucking plate.

If this was WoW, I would think the damage would be fine because you could hit the person on every attack.

But in pvp currently if you are super lucky and super duper good you might get half your hits off on your target.

Anyways, what is the update on your Fireball after several days of leveling?

I would love to know if it has a knockback at say, 25 or something, or if the damage has started to scale nicely.

[FastEddy]

One more thing,

And this is very important.

With archery you can kill people under water,

With magic, if your target goes in water you are fucked, or at least cant hit him with spells.

[Taj]

One more thing,

And this is very important.

With archery you can kill people under water,

With magic, if your target goes in water you are fucked, or at least cant hit him with spells.

Roll a male mirdain, you can shoot anything underwater but nothing above.

[Shaoz]

if you want a class based game go back to wow

in darkfall learn to dabble or you will fail

[FastEddy]

if you want a class based game go back to wow

in darkfall learn to dabble or you will fail

and why should someone dabble in the elemental schools right now?

[Aviyur]

Maybe people should ditch the starter staves.

[Jezvin]

I've seen level 25 skill level firebolt or w/e the level 1 spell is hit people for over 60 in the back using the right staffs.

They even said awhile ago you will need to use a better staff than the noob one to do more damage.

Just look at noob melee weapons they don't do shit for damage even if you up your skill a shit ton.

I have elemental spells but they are not my focus atm so I haven't leveled them past 10 really.

[Ramladu]

double post

[Ramladu]

So, no classes, so long as they restrict playstyle choices in accordance with your opinion?

Hello classes...

No...Classless is fine so long as one player can't be the best at every aspect of combat.

Max archery including booster skills with some spells to help out? Fine. Max archery, including booster skills and 3 magic schools maxed out including booster skills? Not fine.

I think the booster skills are going to end up representing a majority of the specialization - anyone can max out 3 schools, get 100 archery and 100 in their chosen weapon. When you include masteries, special attacks, spells and boosters, there's a lot more to a true specialization than having 100 in the primary skill. I think that works out for the best - someone going for as pure an archer as possible should still be able to cast the majority of spells, just not for as much damage, as low mana cost and as long duration as someone who focuses purely on magery. Likewise, I think it's ok if someone who focuses on magery can shoot arrows for some decent damage so long as the person specializing in archery can shoot a bit faster, hit a bit harder and use a bit less stamina.

[inademv]

No...Classless is fine so long as one player can't be the best at every aspect of combat.

Max archery including booster skills with some spells to help out? Fine. Max archery, including booster skills and 3 magic schools maxed out including booster skills? Not fine.

I think the booster skills are going to end up representing a majority of the specialization - anyone can max out 3 schools, get 100 archery and 100 in their chosen weapon. When you include masteries, special attacks, spells and boosters, there's a lot more to a true specialization than having 100 in the primary skill. I think that works out for the best - someone going for as pure an archer as possible should still be able to cast the majority of spells, just not for as much damage, as low mana cost and as long duration as someone who focuses purely on magery. Likewise, I think it's ok if someone who focuses on magery can shoot arrows for some decent damage so long as the person specializing in archery can shoot a bit faster, hit a bit harder and use a bit less stamina.

The point is that the choice is up to the player's preference and skill.

[HippieOnLSD]

How is dragonbreath (level 25 skill)?

[Layarteb]

For those who think magic isn't strong, you must be doing it wrong.

Our Mage helps us kill many times more players because his spells have greater range, and applications, than standard melee/archery can ever hope to accomplish. You guys just want to be able to one shot anything and call yourselves the greatest. STFU and learn how to play, and you won't be QQing on this board about how crappy magic is.