2H Sword over Polearm

[amgineex01]

Why do I see some people use 2H swords over polearms? It seems like polearms do superior damage, have superior range, and is just a little bit slower.

[Ausei]

2H swords arent much different and damage isnt that much less

[Lothandar]

Business troll means business.

[rBoss]

its min/max vs looks

its such a minor difference that the better player will win regardless of which weapon. however equally skilled in play the polearm should win (with out considering pre-fight stam/hp levels, and food/pots)

[Viluin]

Because the knockback is fucking annoying. Other than that polearms are indeed superior in every way, kinda sad. I expect a buff for 2h swords and other 2h weapons, or a nerf of polearms soon.

[Euseka]

less stam per swing, faster swings, seems to be quicker to skillup too

in retrospect i think i'd have gone 2h swords rather than polearm

[Atnas]

Because the knockback is fucking annoying. Other than that polearms are indeed superior in every way, kinda sad. I expect a buff for 2h swords and other 2h weapons, or a nerf of polearms soon.

You don't know how to fight polearms properly then.

I use greatswords as main weapon. Good mix of damage, speed and range.

[Viluin]

You don't know how to fight polearms properly then.

I use greatswords as main weapon. Good mix of damage, speed and range.

It's not about that.

- Polearms do more DPS
- Polearms have a wider swing
- They have the same range.

It's a balance issue. Polearms are simply better or the same in every way.

I was in full banded, other guy was in leather/chain. We were using noob weapons (Greatsword for me, polearm for him) and we had the same skill. Despite my armor advantage he was winning. We were trading blows because the space was so tight we couldn't move our asses. Polearms are better than greatswords, period. Greatswords may be faster, but it's useless because ordinary combat is not about trading blows. It takes skill to beat a polearm user with a greatsword.

[Atnas]

It's not about that.

- Polearms do more DPS
- Polearms have a wider swing
- They have the same range.

It's a balance issue. Polearms are simply better or the same in every way.

Polearms are easy to counter, they really are. Sword and board is great againt the slow, costly swings of one.

I was in full banded, other guy was in leather/chain. We wer eusing noob weapons (Greatsword for me, polearm for him) and we had the same skill. Despite my armor advantage he was winning. We were trading blows because the space was so tight we couldn't move our asses. Polearms are better than greatswords, period.

You're using the greatsword as if it was a polearm, you're doing it wrong. What race are you? I could show you!

[oggjy]

the knockback on polearm can help your opponent in certain situations

personally i prefer the 2h axe for the higher alpha without the knockback

[Eep]

honestly, from someone whos used both to 50+


its not that big of a difference

id say both are equally good.

[Viluin]

Polearms are easy to counter, they really are. Sword and board is great againt the slow, costly swings of one.



You're using the greatsword as if it was a polearm, you're doing it wrong. What race are you? I could show you!

You don't get it. This is not about how you're supposed to use a weapon. The fact is, polearms have far more raw power than greatswords. The ONLY advantage greatswords have is speed, but who cares when your weapon does way less damage per second?

And wtf, don't want to be forced to use s&b just so I won't be at a disadvantage.

I'm Alfar by the way.

[Atnas]

You don't get it. This is not about how you're supposed to use a weapon. The fact is, polearms have far more raw power than greatswords. The ONLY advantage greatswords have is speed, but who cares when your weapon does way less damage per second?

The drawback of the "pure raw power" is a slow speed though. Speed is a pretty good thing, you've just got to play differently with a greatsword- usually a lot more sprinting to dodge and bait. Baiting is important.

And wtf, don't want to be forced to use s&b just so I won't be at a disadvantage.

Keep on losing then, scrub.

[Lictor]

Because the knockback is fucking annoying. Other than that polearms are indeed superior in every way, kinda sad. I expect a buff for 2h swords and other 2h weapons, or a nerf of polearms soon.

Yeah me too. I won't be pussy-whining for it, like it's fashionable here as of late, but still it'd be nice to see these nerfed. And the subsequent forumfall bitching from thousands of "polearm mages", that will come... Oh, that would be sweet!

[Viluin]

The drawback of the "pure raw power" is a slow speed though. Speed is a pretty good thing, you've just got to play differently with a greatsword- usually a lot more sprinting to dodge and bait. Baiting is important.



Keep on losing then, scrub.

Speed is not an advantage in this game. Sprinting.. dodging.. all of that means you can't use your speed to its fullest potential, because you won't be swinging the entire time. If you are within range of a polearm user, he is within range of you. This means a good polearm user can and will hit you every time you hit him. If the skill of both players is equal, the polearm user wins.


I just got a fucking darkfall.exe error right next to a Mirdain town.. motherfucker.

[Carnifex]

2h swords do more DPS.

Polearms do more overall damage.

If you manage to dodge some of the polearm swings, which isn't hard at all by the way. You an easily win vs. a polearm user.

Saying polearm wins over 2h swords every time is just being ignorant. Even if you are evenly skilled, you can still out maneuver the long swingtime of the polearm.

[Atnas]

Instead of nerfing polearm, which happens to be the only unique weapon in the whole game that doesn't suck, other things should get a boost.

I don't think polearms are overpowered, but I'd love to see greatswords take the "role" that polearms have now (good range) and have polearms become a lot more used to keep the distance.

Speed is not an advantage in this game. Sprinting.. dodging.. all of that means you can't use your speed to its fullest potential, because you won't be swinging the entire time. If you are within range of a polearm user, he is within range of you. This means a good polearm user can and will hit you every time you hit him. If the skill of both players is equal, the polearm user wins.


I just got a fucking darkfall.exe error right next to a Mirdain town.. motherfucker.

Speed, not an advantage? A polearm user can never "punish" someone for a mistake or missed swing, it's too slow for such things. I think you're just trying to fight polearm users on their own terms.

[thecozmicfool]

viluin l2p nub

[Boduar69]

Polearms Pros:

Wider Swing Arc, Higher Dmg per hit, Knockback on hit (not sure if pro or con really)

2hand sword Pros:

Higher DPS(due to faster swing), less stamina per swing,

Both: Same range

[Viluin]

2h swords do more DPS.



Higher DPS(due to faster swing), less stamina per swing,


NO, not true at all. I was in banded armor, other guy was in leather and chain and he was still doing more DPS to me. Perform your own tests, polearms do far more damage per second. It swings faster but does less damage.

[Carnifex]

Polearms Pros:

Wider Swing Arc, Higher Dmg per hit, Knockback on hit (not sure if pro or con really)

2hand sword Pros:

Higher DPS(due to faster swing), less stamina per swing,

Both: Same range

Polearms and 2h swords have the SAME swing arc and range.

NO, not true at all. I was in banded armor, other guy was in leather and chain and he was still doing more DPS to me. Perform your own tests, polearms do far more damage per second.

Do you even know what DPS means ?

2h sword is faster and does almost as much damage as a same ranked polearm. It does a little less damage each swing, but deals it faster, which means it has a higher Damage per SECOND output.

The polearm has more overall damage output.

[TheDor]

PvPers will always prefer the slower larger hits of weapons over steady DPS.

In UO it was hallys, in WoW it was Arcanite Reapers, in DF its polearms. Accept it and move on.

[Atnas]

Polearms and 2h swords have the SAME swing arc and range.

No, they don't. Polearms have longer range, don't know about arc, but most likely they do that aswell.

PvPers will always prefer the slower larger hits of weapons over steady DPS.

In UO it was hallys, in WoW it was Arcanite Reapers, in DF its polearms. Accept it and move on.


Full of crap is what you are.

[Viluin]

Polearms and 2h swords have the SAME swing arc and range.

Polearms have a wider swing arc. Basically everything about polearms screams easymode. They are simply the best weapons. Still not an I-WIN button, but the best nonetheless.

That fucking DF.exe error got me killed btw. Thanks Aventurine.

[Atnas]

Polearms have a wider swing arc. Basically everything about polearms screams easymode. They are simply the best weapons. Still not an I-WIN button, but the best nonetheless.

That fucking DF.exe error got me killed btw. Thanks Aventurine.

They are the easiest weapon to use, and maybe that's why so many people are crying nerf. Fuck them.

[Boduar69]

Main reason I use swords is for peeling people off friendlies. Nothing beats having a friend at low health running with a full HP enemy on his back and after 10 secs of me being on enemy he breaks off because hes almost dead.

Edit: 1v1 obviously polearms are better but DF is not a 1v1 game(usually).

[Viluin]

They are the easiest weapon to use, and maybe that's why so many people are crying nerf. Fuck them.

They are the easiest weapons to use because they're the best weapons. Widest swing, good damage, great range, and better than greatswords in every way.

Maybe I'll pay SOTA's city a visit some day, then you can show me how you use your sword.

[Atnas]

They are the easiest weapons to use because they're the best weapons. Widest swing, good damage, great range, and better than greatswords in every way.

Maybe I'll pay SOTA's city a visit some day, then you can show me how you use your sword.

Do it! I wouldn't be fighting only with a greatsword though, that would be silly. Polearms aren't the best, but most people don't know how to beat them yet. The metagame is always changing though, even in a game with shitty PvP like DF.

[Viluin]

Do it! I wouldn't be fighting only with a greatsword though, that would be silly. Polearms aren't the best, but most people don't know how to beat them yet. The metagame is always changing though, even in a game with shitty PvP like DF.

Haha, what else will you fight with?

[Atnas]

Haha, what else will you fight with?

You'll see when you come, wont you?

[zlade]

All of the weapons should have specific traits.

[-PiP-]

whats the outlook on greatclubs? i use em and seem to miss a lot, havnt tried any other weapon types.

[Odium]

Haha, what else will you fight with?

His zerg of course.

[TheDor]

whats the outlook on greatclubs? i use em and seem to miss a lot, havnt tried any other weapon types.

I believe greatclubs have the shortest reach of the 2h weapons. Just barely shorter then greataxes.

[Rahkim]

Polearm swings too slow imo, greatsword all the way.

Im not talking about DPS standing toe to toe like idiots either, im talking about the ease of hitting someone in a chaotic fight with people sprinting around like madmen. Polearm is so slow its easier to miss your target.

[slugy]

i find greatswords better for sprinting about hitting the enemy in the back/sides.
i use polearms in retails however because it easy to push mobs where i need them.

in pvp polearm and great swords are about the same. you need to l2p viluin =P, not all weps are about standing together and traiding blows.. (half truth)

[Drekor]

There are 3 key points to why 2H swords are horrible.

1) Less reach than polearm; this equates to less hits and of course less damage

2) Less damage per hit; while swords do have faster speed and potentially higher DPS the fact that most pvp is jousting at this time the damage per hit is what counts and swords suck ass for that.

3) Slashing damage; Polearms do piercing which is less resisted while swords do slashing the most highly resisted damage type out there.

If you think these that 2H swords are in the same league then you are terrible(or the people you're fighting are terrible and you could use a leafblade to kill them). The only other weapon that can compare is the greatclub and only because of it's damage type(s).

[Shinimas]

Polearms are easier to block.

[Haeso]

Polearms are easier to block.

I use polearm primarily and have a dawnrazor (R50) 2h sword with me for when some douchebag pulls out a shield on me.

[chimp]

It takes skill to beat a polearm user with a greatsword.

Hence why we use greatswords man.

Using a greatsword is like saying "Hey look at me, im not a scrub like you faggots using a polearm". Its a motherfucking handicap because we are too awesome.

If you are really hardcore you go 2h axe and never kill anyone lol


There are 3 key points to why 2H swords are horrible.

1) Less reach than polearm; this equates to less hits and of course less damage

If you think these that 2H swords are in the same league then you are terrible(or the people you're fighting are terrible and you could use a leafblade to kill them). The only other weapon that can compare is the greatclub and only because of it's damage type(s).

Entirely not true on the reach - they have the same distance reach, but their arc may or may not be slightly larger, it seems to be.

Dont brand everyone who uses a 2h sword as terrible though, scrubs who need every edge they can get to win use polearms. Real men use 2h swords and still win.

[Haeso]

Hence why we use greatswords man.

Using a greatsword is like saying "Hey look at me, im not a scrub like you faggots using a polearm". Its a motherfucking handicap because we are too awesome.

If you are really hardcore you go 2h axe and never kill anyone lol

Scrub, real men use daggers, obviously.

[rwp80]

the knockback on polearm can help your opponent in certain situations

If you manage to dodge some of the polearm swings, which isn't hard at all by the way. You an easily win vs. a polearm user.

Saying polearm wins over 2h swords every time is just being ignorant. Even if you are evenly skilled, you can still out maneuver the long swingtime of the polearm.

This and this.

Do you even know what DPS means ?

2h sword is faster and does almost as much damage as a same ranked polearm. It does a little less damage each swing, but deals it faster, which means it has a higher Damage per SECOND output.

The polearm has more overall damage output.

You're right, but using the word 'overall' is ambiguous because it implies an average; IE, DPS.

The polearm has more damage per strike, but since it's slower it does less damage per second.

I'm quite satisfied with the weapons as they are. Aventurine have balanced them in a way that each weapon has a different style of combat.

Polearms are slow and strong with good reach so you need to just get the enemy in range and hit. The knockback means you can get melee enemies to back off but also means you'll have to keep chasing your target as you beat them down. If you're outnumbered then polearms will serve you well.

Greatswords are about getting in close, spamming them with rhythmic strikes, and getting out. Baiting is essential and being able to move around like crazy without sweating away your stamina is crucial.

I was undecided about which weapon to go for but I am glad I went with greatswords. The only downside is that I, for the life of me, cannot find mobs that use greatswords to loot them from. I get mine crafted from a guild wepsmithy.

[NurfedRekuul]

I use polearm primarily and have a dawnrazor (R50) 2h sword with me for when some douchebag pulls out a shield on me.

Liar. You arrow turret you.

[Gadzy]

Cowards don't choose the best weapon; smart people do.

So stop crying about it. ;)

[Thlaulan]

Funny, I see less talk about great clubs. As I understand it they are about the best against heavily armored foes, fx. banded and up, as they do 15% more damage against armor.

And for info.

In a 1 vs 1 fighting against Polearm users is with shield and sword. You just block them when u see them starting to swing, then hit after swing is blocked. And so forth. You might not be able to hit them each time, but they will spend more stamina than you, so in the end you will win.

[Atnas]

Funny, I see less talk about great clubs. As I understand it they are about the best against heavily armored foes, fx. banded and up, as they do 15% more damage against armor.

And for info.

In a 1 vs 1 fighting against Polearm users is with shield and sword. You just block them when u see them starting to swing, then hit after swing is blocked. And so forth. You might not be able to hit them each time, but they will spend more stamina than you, so in the end you will win.

Yeah, sword and shield rapes a polearm user. Takes time though, and a lot of people think it's boring.

[Viluin]

Do you even know what DPS means ?

2h sword is faster and does almost as much damage as a same ranked polearm. It does a little less damage each swing, but deals it faster, which means it has a higher Damage per SECOND output.

The polearm has more overall damage output.

What part of "I was in full banded, he was in leather/chain and he still took me down faster with his noob polearm when we were trading blows with equal weapon skill" do you not understand? Run your own tests. Polearms do more DPS.


The polearm has more damage per strike, but since it's slower it does less damage per second.

:bang:

[kheled]

Numbers > Speculation (for all the dps people arguing)

I am happy with greatswords because I think they are more useful in group pvp. The knockback from polearms sucks when chasing down runners, and with a greatsword I feel like I have more control.

I'm not convinced one way or another yet about raw dps, as I haven't seen any conclusive numbers either way.

[Nyet]

The way this game will develop is that you will have to use polearm for people who fight you with 2h and second wep (mace/greasword/axe) to kill thos who run away or those who use shield.

In 1v1 combat polearm vs greatsword - polearm will win for sure, it is much easier to dodge greatsword then polearm. Also polearm is piercing dmg and all armor has lower piercing than slashing.

[chimp]

In 1v1 combat polearm vs greatsword - polearm will win for sure, it is much easier to dodge greatsword then polearm. Also polearm is piercing dmg and all armor has lower piercing than slashing.

Whoa there, how about you stop with the sweeping generalizations?

Greatswords are faster so can dart in and out of slow swinging polearms - if the polearmers start to try and joust in a real fight, I let them back off whilst they prep their next joust and start shooting them with arrows.

[Thiazi]

Someone in another thread said there was a 2h bug that caused 2hswords not to hit, i know many times i have swung thru my opponets and never connected. Is this a known bug or just lag?

[Nyet]

Whoa there, how about you stop with the sweeping generalizations?

Greatswords are faster so can dart in and out of slow swinging polearms - if the polearmers start to try and joust in a real fight, I let them back off whilst they prep their next joust and start shooting them with arrows.

I have a lot of experience 700 kills (80% real fights not naked/afk people) and I am using sword but I will be using both weps now. The main problem with greatsword is that it is MUCH easier to dodge when polearm will hit 95% of the times for sure...if both players are competent that is.

When you draw your bow so does enemy, when you will step back enemy will stop forward, when you will try to parry enemy won't hit e.t.c

[nathanpinard]

Taking the damage equation out, Polearms have a very wide range in terms of angle vs your target compared to 2h. It's slightly larger than 2h, so as a result even when people pass by you, you can sometimes swing and hit them when they are directly beside you running the opposite direction.

I tried this with a 2h sword, and my 2h sword animation went directly through my clanmate. I instructed him to NOT move during this at all. After swinging several times with no success, I pulled out my polearm, and it did indeed hit him.

He was directly beside me, just a few "inches" before being directly parallel with me.

Because of the nature of running around and strafing people in battle, polearms seem to work the best. I personally think either 1. Polearms should be slower even 2. Other range/angles on other weps should be improved.

However, this seems pretty tough to balance and figure out without making some weapon classes useless.

Possible they could do this (off the top of my head)

1. Make 1h even faster, along with a better angle. The animation doesn't seem to fit the angle of attack.

2. Make 2h (other than polearms) slightly faster as well, but the angle could stay the same.

3. Keep the angle of polearms, but make them significantly slower, while balancing the damage. Make the vertical swing a thrust, and fairly fast. While making the horizontal swing slow.

Another option: Increase all vertical swing damage past the horizontal damage. Encouraging those with the skill to use it for more effective damage.

Again, these are off the top of my head after no sleep all night :x

[KuraM]

removing polearms static knockback (although really small) will actually be a buff rather then a nerf. I get people jumping when i hit them while chasing so that when i hit them ,they fly farther and its annoying. ofc not alot of people do that, but even normal chasing puts them out of range after 2 hits. Still, i started as polearm, lvled 2h until 42, and now i went back to polarms which is also 42 ish and i like them more.

its mostly preference, but my playstyle works better with a polearm.

[shaystamang]

while being chased by a polearm wielder. If you jump right before he hits you, it will launch you forward a good distance away from him. good tactic and a reason why polearms are balanced.

[rwp80]

The polearm has more damage per strike, but since it's slower it does less damage per second.
:bang:

What exactly cant you understand about this?

If I had a subspace alien ray gun that shot 1 bullet every 10 seconds for 100 damage per shot, I'd be doing 10 damage per second.
If I had another subspace alien ray gun that shot 1 bullet every second but for only 12 damage per shot, I'd be doing 12 damage per second.

The second magic alien ray gun would hit less per strike, but do more damage per second on average.

[keeperofstars]

polearm users + melee slow = dead meat every single time.

Since the slow is a reduction based on your base speed of weapon, it affects polearms more than 2 handed swords.

Oh and daggers beat polearms but you will never ever believe me till we meet up. So till then trust me.

Hit polearm guy with melee slow, and you can get 2 dagger hits then a block, per each of his swings. Can't do that vs a 2handed sword user.

Also since polearms are so slow, they are really easy to evade, drive by dagger hitting works every single time. Lure a swing out of the guy and run by him tagging him with a dagger hit, and out of range before he can swing again.

But hey you are right polearms are soo.. much better. NOW, just wait though 1 speed debuff and you will be crying. Trust me.

[Henide]

The slower they hit, the higher your chances to use shield in time. Only thing i dislike about pole users is that they are usually (no offense to those, non-usual peeps) in re*arded naked character hands that only know how to spin around and hit aimlessly, hoping they hit something...yay, guess they have skillz.

[FASLAYER]

I use 2h sword. My friend uses polearm. Here's a clip of some splash. Sword is no different on the width. The only difference is that he hits slightly harder, swings slightly slower, and has 1 step more range. The range is hardly noticable but if you stand close to one another you can get to a point where the sword cannot reach but the polarm will.

http://www.wegame.com/watch/Darkfall_3v6_noobs/

[Xorv]

Someone in another thread said there was a 2h bug that caused 2hswords not to hit, i know many times i have swung thru my opponets and never connected. Is this a known bug or just lag?

The graphical display of the weapon swinging seems to have little bearing on where it hits, was testing this out today with a few weapons two handed sowrds included and you could see the weapon clearly passing through the target but not hitting. I don't think it's a bug and definately not lag, it's just the way it is in DFO. I really like this game, but melee combat is another one of those things that just disapoints.

[Nyet]

polearm users + melee slow = dead meat every single time.

Since the slow is a reduction based on your base speed of weapon, it affects polearms more than 2 handed swords.

Oh and daggers beat polearms but you will never ever believe me till we meet up. So till then trust me.

Hit polearm guy with melee slow, and you can get 2 dagger hits then a block, per each of his swings. Can't do that vs a 2handed sword user.

Also since polearms are so slow, they are really easy to evade, drive by dagger hitting works every single time. Lure a swing out of the guy and run by him tagging him with a dagger hit, and out of range before he can swing again.

But hey you are right polearms are soo.. much better. NOW, just wait though 1 speed debuff and you will be crying. Trust me.

Do you know how much time does it take? Do you have that time in those situation...no.

[]slade[]

yep, i tried polearm and 2h sword, i stuck with the sword, similar dmg, but swings much faster..

2h sword FTW

[Golbez01]

Too many people use polearms. That implies something is wrong or a lot of misinformation was fed :)

[keeperofstars]

Too many people use polearms. That implies something is wrong or a lot of misinformation was fed :)

Narrow minded masses, are typically wrong with their thought processes.

They are quick to judge weapons and mechanics now when everyone is a newbie stat / skill wise. Things change once you gain weapon skills, and you get your stats / speed up.

For example quickness stat improves your melee swing.

Lets say a 2h sword has .2 attack speed, and a polearm has .15 attack speed.

Quickness just for BS example improves your speed by a modifier of 3 at 75 stat level.

the 2h sword attack speed = 3x.2 = .6
The pole arm attack speed = 3x.15 = .45

Now lets give the fire melee buff for another 3 modifier.
2handed: .6 x 3 = 1.8
polearm: .45 x 3 = 1.35
As you can see as speed modifiers start stacking a small difference in attack speed starts to mean a bunch.

Also melee skill reuse is based off weapon speed.
So you can reuse your melee skills faster with 2hand weapon.

[DarkFallFan69]

I use 2h sword. My friend uses polearm. Here's a clip of some splash. Sword is no different on the width. The only difference is that he hits slightly harder, swings slightly slower, and has 1 step more range. The range is hardly noticable but if you stand close to one another you can get to a point where the sword cannot reach but the polarm will.

http://www.wegame.com/watch/Darkfall_3v6_noobs/

nice video dude. im curious, what were those buff spells you were casting? what was that fire-ish spell that you casted on that one dude near the end?

[chimp]

nice video dude. im curious, what were those buff spells you were casting? what was that fire-ish spell that you casted on that one dude near the end?

That wasnt a nice video, that sucked.

The 6 were fucking awful, and the 3 were just bad.

[Atnas]

That wasnt a nice video, that sucked.

The 6 were fucking awful, and the 3 were just bad.

Yeah, that really was absolutely horrible- all the players were bad. The part when he's just blocking and strafing, and he's just waiting for the mana to stamina... I wanted to jump in there and take over, hahaha.

Also ganking mid-combat? Jesus christ.

[Buckee]

Because the knockback is fucking annoying. Other than that polearms are indeed superior in every way, kinda sad. I expect a buff for 2h swords and other 2h weapons, or a nerf of polearms soon.


they better get rid of the gay knockback if they nerf damage

[Loli]

Long post so to sum it up heres it all in one sentance :P

A polearm in dagger range should be as worthless as a dagger at polearm range
longer weapons should do less damage close up, ie a polearm at full range should do alof of damage but right next to someone then it should do pathetic damage.

Think fighting someone, kicks are strong and have good range but if someones right next to you smashing your face in with punches then your not able to kick/kick with much power. This gives a reason for very short weapons (whose gonna win, guy with a polearm or a guy with a knife standing right next to each other).

I picked swords because I fancied using 2 haand swords, my friend picked polearms because he checked the forums and saw alot of people crying about them (says it all). When we fight he does significanlt more damage to me all the time (naked, armoured doens't really matter). Also he seems to have no problem hitting me. I turned on "hit sounds" so I know for sure I do hit people with my sword its just a bit crap :P.

All I would like to see is long reach weapons losing a little bit of damage when the target they hit is close. It would also be nice if animation time came into it, ie if you strike someone close to the end of a swing then your gonna hit at full power, if you hit at the start then its going to be much weaker. Obviously somehting like a polearm/2h axe/2h mace are gonna do significantly low damage at the start of a swing but alot at the end where as a sword (slashing across the body) or a dagger (thrusting straight into the body) would do a reaosnable amount of damage early in a swing.

This would balance out the weapons slightly differently, giving tactics and usage to different types of weapons. Poly arm would still be king at jousting/range but a sword guy could then get close and suddenly has an advantage. 2h axe and mace would probably need weaker damage at start of swing but significantly more damage at the end.

[Atnas]

Well, I must confess polearms are superior in sieges, because how else are you supposed to hit people when you are playing with 5 fps.

[Bonzo]

Long post so to sum it up heres it all in one sentance :P

A polearm in dagger range should be as worthless as a dagger at polearm range
longer weapons should do less damage close up, ie a polearm at full range should do alof of damage but right next to someone then it should do pathetic damage.

Think fighting someone, kicks are strong and have good range but if someones right next to you smashing your face in with punches then your not able to kick/kick with much power. This gives a reason for very short weapons (whose gonna win, guy with a polearm or a guy with a knife standing right next to each other).

I picked swords because I fancied using 2 haand swords, my friend picked polearms because he checked the forums and saw alot of people crying about them (says it all). When we fight he does significanlt more damage to me all the time (naked, armoured doens't really matter). Also he seems to have no problem hitting me. I turned on "hit sounds" so I know for sure I do hit people with my sword its just a bit crap :P.

All I would like to see is long reach weapons losing a little bit of damage when the target they hit is close. It would also be nice if animation time came into it, ie if you strike someone close to the end of a swing then your gonna hit at full power, if you hit at the start then its going to be much weaker. Obviously somehting like a polearm/2h axe/2h mace are gonna do significantly low damage at the start of a swing but alot at the end where as a sword (slashing across the body) or a dagger (thrusting straight into the body) would do a reaosnable amount of damage early in a swing.

This would balance out the weapons slightly differently, giving tactics and usage to different types of weapons. Poly arm would still be king at jousting/range but a sword guy could then get close and suddenly has an advantage. 2h axe and mace would probably need weaker damage at start of swing but significantly more damage at the end.

Are you retarded? You can grab a polearm towards the blade and use it very effectively. Learn some stuff about history before you talk about how these weapons should work.

[buffnblue]

Polearms and 2h swords have the SAME swing arc and range.



Do you even know what DPS means ?

2h sword is faster and does almost as much damage as a same ranked polearm. It does a little less damage each swing, but deals it faster, which means it has a higher Damage per SECOND output.

The polearm has more overall damage output.

the term Overall damage is incorrect.

what you are trying to say is that POLEARMS offer better BURST damage.

also-- you are very incorrect in stating that great swords have the same swing arc are the polearm.

The swing arc IE the semi circle covered in our Right to left/ Left to Right attacks is very large for the polearm user.

This is perhaps the greatest factor that determines the damage output vs players when using hte polearm. The fact that you can hit a strafing opponent that isnt even in your periphreal vision gives a very large advantage to the polearm user.

Hence this weapon is the pvp weapon of choice for most players, as the forgiving nature of the weapon overcomes most FPS skill opponents have.

[Viluin]

Narrow minded masses, are typically wrong with their thought processes.

They are quick to judge weapons and mechanics now when everyone is a newbie stat / skill wise. Things change once you gain weapon skills, and you get your stats / speed up.

For example quickness stat improves your melee swing.

Lets say a 2h sword has .2 attack speed, and a polearm has .15 attack speed.

Quickness just for BS example improves your speed by a modifier of 3 at 75 stat level.

the 2h sword attack speed = 3x.2 = .6
The pole arm attack speed = 3x.15 = .45

Now lets give the fire melee buff for another 3 modifier.
2handed: .6 x 3 = 1.8
polearm: .45 x 3 = 1.35
As you can see as speed modifiers start stacking a small difference in attack speed starts to mean a bunch.

Also melee skill reuse is based off weapon speed.
So you can reuse your melee skills faster with 2hand weapon.

My quickness is 55 and I notice no speed difference compared to a noob swinging a greatsword. We swing at the same speed. Quickness, like Strength, is probably a broken stat.

Also, it's factually impossible for a knife user to beat any good two-hander user. You'll never even hit him. Hell, I saw a knife user chasing a Greatsword user once, he was right behind him but couldn't hit him yet. The greatsword user jumped and turned around in mid-air to hit him without losing speed, that was lulz. You usually just see ranged players using that tactic.

the term Overall damage is incorrect.

what you are trying to say is that POLEARMS offer better BURST damage.


Better burst damage and better DPS.

[Kal Drago]

Hi im not very informed on this subject but enjoy adding my two cents. i made a post in the suggestion forums about adding the following skill or spell. maybe it would help



Hi if this makes no sense please ignore it, im not that informed on the game mechanics.

I was reading forum posts that were saying melee pvp is too 1 dimensional and pole-arms are over-powered because weapon speed ect doesnt play a factor in melee pvp because you dont just stand right next to each other and swing non stop ect. I dont know if this is true or not but..

my idea for a new spell or skill would be this:

have a spell or skill that you are only able to cast on an opponent if you are very close to them. Then after "x" amount of time (say 7seconds) if your target is no longer close to you, say within "y feet" then the target takes a nice amount of damage.


simple spell but opens up a lot of diversity and strategy i would think. and the reason why this came to mind was to add some options to someone with a fast weapon speed. Say if im using fast daggers and cast this spell on my opponent it might cause my opponent to stay close to me where i can take advantage of my fast weapon speed and keep using my daggers unless he wants to take damage from the special skill/spell.

[Keaven Holiday]

It takes skill to beat a polearm user with a greatsword.

I have skill!?

[Loli]

Are you retarded? You can grab a polearm towards the blade and use it very effectively. Learn some stuff about history before you talk about how these weapons should work.

Then it loses the range which is fine. Perhaps the toggle attack mode should be between wild swing and short thrusts then. Perfect, yet more tactical play coming into fights.

[Lictor]

I have skill!?

m2!

[Viluin]

I have skill!?

Let me put it this way.. it takes more skill than the polearm user to beat himm with a greatsword.

[Lifestone]

Facts:

Polearm does slightly more damage and have slightly better range.
Polearm has a knockback that is highly annoying in many situations for the one using it.
2H Sword gets off more than 1 1/2 swing for every polearm swing and has superior dps
2H Sword uses significantly less stamina than polearm

2H Sword > Polearm in sieges and group fights.
Polearm > Other 2H's in 1v1
Sword & Board > Polearm more than Polearm > 2H Sword in 1v1

Conclusion: 2H Sword + Sword & Board > Polearm + Sword & Board

[Bink]

Why do I see some people use 2H swords over polearms? It seems like polearms do superior damage, have superior range, and is just a little bit slower.

I don't pick my weopon based what is OP at the moment. Especially with skill gain decay when you hit the soft cap. I'm not going to raise a new weopon skill everytime the current OP weopon gets a nerf bat. Once AV gets their servers stable, gets the cash flow coming in on a consistant basis, I am sure, like ALL companies they will look to balancing shit out. As this occurs, different skills/weopons/spellschools will become OP or become Useless according to the masses. It occurs in every game.

Besides, 2h swords and Polearms are pretty damn close already. I'm yet to meet a polearm guy who can keep me "at range" and hit me while I cant hit him. Honestly I think the occasional knockback would be annoying as hell too =P

[Osium]

If you have a low ping, 1v1 the great sword is a superior weapon against a polearm. If you have a high ping, the PA is going to be superior.

Against 1 vs many the PA is a superior weapon.

In large chaotic fights the GS is a superior weapon.

Let me quantify these statements. First why the PA is superior in a 1 vs many situation. Simply put the knock back in addition to the higher damage potential. Speed of swing is less important in this situation, dictating the pace of the fight is. The PA is a weapon that will excel when multiple enemies are either diving in at you and causing heavy FF or if they are staying back waiting for an opportunistic swing. The PA can knock them out of range before they can reply, it can hit through multiple targets (possible bug?) and it hits the hardest.

The GS is a superior weapon in large chaotic fights due to the speed at which it responds and how quickly you can react to a new target. The PA requires at least a little anticipation. The GS requires virtually no anticipation, you can spin and swing and spin and swing almost as fast as new targets approach you. Moreover, in large chaotic fights you are often able to get on the back of someone for a few seconds if they are in archer/cast mode and score uncontested hits. With a PA you risk knocking them out of range of your second swing, and if they are quick to move you most assuredly will. The GS will allow you to score 3 maybe even 4 strikes and this can mean 30-50% HP depending on their gear and your skill.

[Ftwzwerg]

Polearm is quite good, but you dont have any chance vs a guy with Shield and sword because its easy to block it for them. I`m using 2h Swords because the Stamina cost is much lower and there isnt a big difference between the Damage.

[brobban]

Just got curious and did some theorycrafting some mins ago.

stam cost: 2HS:2,775 PA:3,425
Swing per stam bar: 2HS:92,973 PA:73,328
Damge for a full stam bar: 2HS:1115,68 PA:1054,56

Used 12 dmg for 2HS sword and 14 for PA and took my stamina bar for counting(258). The dmg for each of the weapons arent 100%, me and a friend did some testing before and I just took what I experienced as the median dmg for each of the weapons. But the skills were different also, ~25 PA and ~15-2HS.

1vs1 polearm still probably is the best, but for a big and longer battle I would choose 2HS and also nice with sidesweeps both ways.

Forgot to add, have around 24 str and used starter weapons for both PA and 2HS.

[VidsPlease]

Polearm, horizontal swing run in circles. GS is shit imo, when are you going to ever have low ping enough to use it and when are 1v1's gonna meen anything?

[Atnas]

Polearms > All in sieges, that's a fact. Nothing beats random swinging with good range and damage when everything is a slideshow.

[kheled]

Just got curious and did some theorycrafting some mins ago.

stam cost: 2HS:2,775 PA:3,425
Swing per stam bar: 2HS:92,973 PA:73,328
Damge for a full stam bar: 2HS:1115,68 PA:1054,56

Used 12 dmg for 2HS sword and 14 for PA and took my stamina bar for counting(258). The dmg for each of the weapons arent 100%, me and a friend did some testing before and I just took what I experienced as the median dmg for each of the weapons. But the skills were different also, ~25 PA and ~15-2HS.

1vs1 polearm still probably is the best, but for a big and longer battle I would choose 2HS and also nice with sidesweeps both ways.

Forgot to add, have around 24 str and used starter weapons for both PA and 2HS.

Cool info. Thanks for doing this work.

[Durindana]

Do you even know what DPS means ?

2h sword ... has a higher Damage per SECOND output.

The polearm has more overall damage output.

jesus christ, l2english.

[Durindana]

Polearms are slow and strong with good reach
...
Greatswords are about getting in close, spamming them with rhythmic strikes, and getting out. Baiting is essential

:lmao:

[TheDor]

jesus christ, l2english.

Did you just tell someone, someone that lives in a country that does not have English as the primary language, to "l2english?"

I really hope the irony is not lost here.

Fucking tool.

[MacCoy]

:lmao:

:lmao::lmao:

[MacCoy]

jesus christ, l2english.
jesus wont help you :lmao: