Polearm stamina use

[Umberto]

I understand that the polearm seems to be OP in pvp right now, but I'm curious how polearm users last in long term battles. I understand there is a big stamina use and that makes me not want to use it regardless of the damage. I'm using a 2h and I want to know how it compares. So can someone tell me whether or not the stamina use on a polearm is viable for longer battles?

[Shaoz]

3.45 stamina drain per swing

2h sword is 2.7

[Nevron]

For the most part it's negligible considering food, pots, and mana to stamina.

[Örn]

I´ve been trying my sword and board against polearm in a dry fight (no pots or mana to stamina) and I´ve won every fight against polearm, each time because of polearm being out of stamina.
I´m happy I went with sword and board, and a bow :)

[Viluin]

I´ve been trying my sword and board against polearm in a dry fight (no pots or mana to stamina) and I´ve won every fight against polearm, each time because of polearm being out of stamina.
I´m happy I went with sword and board, and a bow :)

That's gotta be a long ass fight though, lol. I like to keep my fights short. The longer you fight, the more chance of some random asshole getting involved.

[Jezvin]

I´ve been trying my sword and board against polearm in a dry fight (no pots or mana to stamina) and I´ve won every fight against polearm, each time because of polearm being out of stamina.
I´m happy I went with sword and board, and a bow :)

It would be a long fight with sword and board, If I was fighting someone with sword and board I would prob get him to block a lot and in general just avoid swinging my pole altogether and use mana missle.

Sword and board is a defensive tactic for group fighting imo, anyone that is 1v1 and attacking someone blocking is an idiot.

[Benevolence]

It would be a long fight with sword and board, If I was fighting someone with sword and board I would prob get him to block a lot and in general just avoid swinging my pole altogether and use mana missle.

Sword and board is a defensive tactic for group fighting imo, anyone that is 1v1 and attacking someone blocking is an idiot.

There are a lot of idiots then.

[Lumanil]

There are a lot of idiots then.

I have to fully agree with you :lmao:

[psychosiszz]

I´ve been trying my sword and board against polearm in a dry fight (no pots or mana to stamina) and I´ve won every fight against polearm, each time because of polearm being out of stamina.
I´m happy I went with sword and board, and a bow :)

They must seriously suck then. I never take damage from someone using a one-hander I always stay out of range. when they block I just jump over there heads and hit them in the back or wait for them to try and attack.
I guess if there stupid enough to keep hitting you when your blocking they deserve to die.

[pongo]

I honestly can't believe that everyone on forumfall thinks that blocking is something you have to do for an extended period of time. It's not. You have to time your blocks with the enemy's swing, and you rape his/her stamina. Saying "Oh I'll just stop swinging if he's blocking," means you have never fought a 1h user worth shitting on. A good user will stop blocking if you stop swinging.




Fuck.

[Viluin]

I honestly can't believe that everyone on forumfall thinks that blocking is something you have to do for an extended period of time. It's not. You have to time your blocks with the enemy's swing, and you rape his/her stamina. Saying "Oh I'll just stop swinging if he's blocking," means you have never fought a 1h user worth shitting on. A good user will stop blocking if you stop swinging.




Fuck.

There's a "startup stamina cost" for blocking.. isn't it much higher than the cost for a swing? Swinging a weapon actually takes very little stamina, it's sprinting and getting hit that will rape your stam in combat.

[Shrang]

Vil.... there is increased stamina loss if you hit someone who is blocking... test it out.

[Atnas]

3.45 stamina drain per swing

2h sword is 2.7

Are you sure of this? I always thought it was around the same!

[Carnifex]

I always use 2h swords. Polearms might be good, but they are still slow and most of the time I can just dodge a polearm swing because I can land my swing with a sword and make it away safely out of his swing arc.

[Boduar69]

2.775 stamina per swing with 2hand swords. Anyways in small group just knock an arrow and watch the guy drain his stamina keeping block up.

[Lictor]

I always use 2h swords. Polearms might be good, but they are still slow and most of the time I can just dodge a polearm swing because I can land my swing with a sword and make it away safely out of his swing arc.

You are either epic player or fighting noobz to be able to dodge polearm swing most of the time. Since I generally don't have faith in player skill bragging on a forum, I'd bet it's latter.

[McDoogs]

I find in longer fights that i get pretty low on stam with the polearm faster than my 2h sword teammates

[Nicholai Pestot]

Testing has shown that

-Shield blockings stamina use and hostile stamina drain scales very well with parry increased up to 50 (have not gone past this yet)

-Hostile stamina drain applies to range attacks as well. If you spam MM at a guy with a shield, then if he is smart he will run into them and activate block.

Case in point, when testing with a friend

A. Full spread of MM fired at a wall (till mana is out) = down to 90% stamina remaining.

B. Full spread of MM fired at me while holding block = I go down to 33% stam/98% health, my friend goes down to 20% stam.

C.Full spread of MM fired at me while timed blocking = I go down to 75% stam/90% health (missed two blocks), my friend goes down to 20% stam.

If you kill anyone with a shield 1v1 then they are an utter tit, or have a parry rating of less than 25 (where the first big efficiency buff appears)

The best thing you can do against a guy with a 1h/shield is to pull out a bow and hold your shots drawn without firing, then let them off at random times. Its damn hard to block random timed arrows and will force the shield user to accept the damage or burn stamina on in-efficent blocking. Even then, an experianced shield user will just pull out a bow of his own and go tit-for-tat with arrows.

With a polearm against a shield user who knows what he is doing...don't even bother. Much like with magical ranged attacks, the shield user has so much warning from the attack animation that you will almost never get a hit through his shield.

Hitting a shield user with parry>50 expect yourself to stam-out with his stamina still at around two thirds (all other things being equal).

[Temko Firewing]

Testing has shown that

-Shield blockings stamina use and hostile stamina drain scales very well with parry increased up to 50 (have not gone past this yet)

-Hostile stamina drain applies to range attacks as well. If you spam MM at a guy with a shield, then if he is smart he will run into them and activate block.

Case in point, when testing with a friend

A. Full spread of MM fired at a wall (till mana is out) = down to 90% stamina remaining.

B. Full spread of MM fired at me while holding block = I go down to 33% stam/98% health, my friend goes down to 20% stam.

C.Full spread of MM fired at me while timed blocking = I go down to 75% stam/90% health (missed two blocks), my friend goes down to 20% stam.

If you kill anyone with a shield 1v1 then they are an utter tit, or have a parry rating of less than 25 (where the first big efficiency buff appears)

The best thing you can do against a guy with a 1h/shield is to pull out a bow and hold your shots drawn without firing, then let them off at random times. Its damn hard to block random timed arrows and will force the shield user to accept the damage or burn stamina on in-efficent blocking. Even then, an experianced shield user will just pull out a bow of his own and go tit-for-tat with arrows.

With a polearm against a shield user who knows what he is doing...don't even bother. Much like with magical ranged attacks, the shield user has so much warning from the attack animation that you will almost never get a hit through his shield.

Hitting a shield user with parry>50 expect yourself to stam-out with his stamina still at around two thirds (all other things being equal).

Exactly what this man has said.

Parry is one of the few skills that improve greatly as they train with considerable return.

i am currently at 49 parry, and i have only lost to polearm users when outnumbers 4-1 or more.

otherwise the only ones i lose against are mages that cast Elemental/Etc.. spells AT MY FEET. as blocking does not help splash damage.

[Lictor]

Exactly what this man has said.

Parry is one of the few skills that improve greatly as they train with considerable return.

i am currently at 49 parry, and i have only lost to polearm users when outnumbers 4-1 or more.

otherwise the only ones i lose against are mages that cast Elemental/Etc.. spells AT MY FEET. as blocking does not help splash damage.

Thanks for a hints how to kill you guyz! :sly:

[Nicholai Pestot]

otherwise the only ones i lose against are mages that cast Elemental/Etc.. spells AT MY FEET. as blocking does not help splash damage.


Damnit, I wasn't going to talk about that on the forums :p

[Arcador]

Good info! Someone must add it to the wiki

http://darkfall.wikia.com/wiki/Darkfall_Wiki

[Temko Firewing]

Thanks for a hints how to kill you guyz! :sly:

meh, as soon as you go splash damage, i pull out my staff and do a shield vervus energy damage, the more you cast, the more mana you use, i just jump/pot/etc... wile you lose mana, once you cast 5-10 spells you'll be mostly out of mana and i'll just clobber you.


also if you are casting at my feet i'll rush in and start slapping at ye, if ye run you lose stamina and i can probably Crouch and still block half the stuff you send at me + shield vervus splash....

...yh, i figure out how to use my shield ;)

[Lictor]

meh, as soon as you go splash damage, i pull out my staff and do a shield vervus energy damage, the more you cast, the more mana you use, i just jump/pot/etc... wile you lose mana, once you cast 5-10 spells you'll be mostly out of mana and i'll just clobber you.


also if you are casting at my feet i'll rush in and start slapping at ye, if ye run you lose stamina and i can probably Crouch and still block half the stuff you send at me + shield vervus splash....

...yh, i figure out how to use my shield ;)

ZOMG, I've met first unbeatable Darkfall player!!!

Lucky me, it's on the forums... :rolleyes:

[Bartlebe]

There's a "startup stamina cost" for blocking.. isn't it much higher than the cost for a swing? Swinging a weapon actually takes very little stamina, it's sprinting and getting hit that will rape your stam in combat.

To have so many post, you're surprisingly uneducated on how Darkfall works.

Now that the rate at which one can block has been increased, it is quite easy to toss up a quick block and intercept someones swing. Once that block has registered, the blocker can instantly take his shield down to a normal, resting state.

Once blocked, the attacker does almost no damage, takes stamina drain from his swing and additional drain from being blocked.

Try this experiment sometime:

Get together with a friend and both be unarmored. One of you fiercely attacks, using a pole or other heavy hitting 2h weapon. The other person, plays totally defensive, only tossing up a block to intercept your swings.

The person blocking will have almost half his stamina bar left and you will be totally depleted very quickly. The blocker can then proceed to take out his 2h weapon and obliterate you. :idea:

[Viluin]

To have so many post, you're surprisingly uneducated on how Darkfall works.

Now that the rate at which one can block has been increased, it is quite easy to toss up a quick block and intercept someones swing. Once that block has registered, the blocker can instantly take his shield down to a normal, resting state.

Once blocked, the attacker does almost no damage, takes stamina drain from his swing and additional drain from being blocked.

Try this experiment sometime:

Get together with a friend and both be unarmored. One of you fiercely attacks, using a pole or other heavy hitting 2h weapon. The other person, plays totally defensive, only tossing up a block to intercept your swings.

The person blocking will have almost half his stamina bar left and you will be totally depleted very quickly. The blocker can then proceed to take out his 2h weapon and obliterate you. :idea:

Haha.. I have to swing if you want something to block. I won't just swing. No, I'll just wait for you to swing and swing back immediately. If you think your one-hander can outdamage my two-hander you'll be in for a surprise. I can also pretend to swing at you, then turn really fast so the swing misses. Oops, wasted block!

You don't have to tell me how the game works, don't worry.

[Bartlebe]

Haha.. I have to swing if you want something to block. I'll just wait for you to swing and swing back immediately. If you think your one-hander can outdamage my two-hander you'll be in for a surprise.

You don't have to tell me how the game works, don't worry.

For a person playing defensively, he doesn't have to attack you.

He stands there and waits for you to either...

1. Start attacking
2. Get bored and go somewhere else.

Either way, the defender comes out on top because you, the "OMG I'z a tough PvPer hurrr hurr!!," is foiled and the defensive player can go back to whatever he's doing.

Now going offensive with a sword and board is another story. In that case, you're just asking to get rolled.

[Viluin]

For a person playing defensively, he doesn't have to attack you.

He stands there and waits for you to either...

1. Start attacking
2. Get bored and go somewhere else.

Either way, the defender comes out on top because you, t he "Hurr Hurrrr" tough guy PvPer, is foiled and the defensive player can go back to whatever he's doing.

Now going offensive with a sword and bored is another story. In that case, you're just asking to get rolled.

But he will attack me. It's in the nature of every Darkfall player to attack when there's an enemy in your face. Besides, I can use fake swings to bait him. I wonder who runs out of stamina faster.. me purposefully swinging at air or him blocking for nothing?

I'm going to do some tests soon. I should be able to see the shield user blocking before my swing lands, in which case I'll use my epic 2000dpi gaming mouse to turn around in 2 milliseconds so my swing doesn't hit him. If that's possible then it's gg for all shield users. If he doesn't block I hit, if he blocks I miss.

[Bartlebe]

But he will attack me. It's in the nature of every Darkfall player to attack when there's an enemy in your face. Besides, I can use fake swings to bait him.

The smart ones will not. You need to try and fight higher quality players instead of ganking noob goblin farmers.

I wonder who runs out of stamina faster.. me swinging at air or him blocking for nothing?

You've clearly never tried this before. You'll run out first.

An effective block last only a fraction of a second. Uses almost no stamina and mitigates almost ALL damage.

You know whats even cooler? If I block even half a second late, it still registers that I blocked normally!

By the time your swing is in the air, I can tap my right mouse button and toss up a block. You have already committed to the swing.

Blocking takes fractions of a second now that they've re-vamped it.

[Viluin]

The smart ones will not. You need to try and fight higher quality players instead of ganking noob goblin farmers.



You've clearly never tried this before. You'll run out first.

An effective block last only a fraction of a second. Uses almost no stamina and mitigates almost ALL damage.

You know whats even cooler? If I block even half a second late, it still registers that I blocked normally!

The fight is in favor of the blocker by huge, huge margins. You need to fight a better blocker.

I'm pretty sure the startup cost for a block is higher than a swing, at least when your parry is below 50. I know mine is.

Also, I've tried parrying often, and I have to do it well before the hit lands or it will register as a full hit. Lag ftl?

By the time your swing is in the air, I can tap my right mouse button and toss up a block. You have already committed to the swing.

I can turn and make the swing miss before it lands.

[Bartlebe]

I'm pretty sure the startup cost for a block is higher than a swing, at least when your parry is below 50. I know mine is.

Also, I've tried parrying often, and I have to do it well before the hit lands or it will register as a full hit. Lag ftl?



I can turn and make the swing miss before it lands.

I am a NA player so my ping is usually in the 120-130 range. I wouldn't say that is lag worthy.

Also, I think you may be underestimating the speed at which a block can come up and come down.

Anyways, find a good blocking buddy and run some naked tests. You'll figure out a good method.

[Nicholai Pestot]

I'm pretty sure the startup cost for a block is higher than a swing, at least when your parry is below 50. I know mine is.

Also, I've tried parrying often, and I have to do it well before the hit lands or it will register as a full hit. Lag ftl?



I can turn and make the swing miss before it lands.

Even below 50 parry, a single tap of the shield uses less stamina than a swing of any 2h weapons. Above 50 parry it just gets stupid. A multiple second parry barely registers a drop in stam.

Below around 25 parry however, you are correct. The 2h will win using your method.

As for post-blow blocking, I have had that happen a few times but not consistently enough to rely on it. 2h swings are, however, slow enough for me to block between the start of the animation and the hit landing.

The only exception to this is the 2h sword, which can be tricky to block if the user is competent. Against a 2h sword I find I do better pulling out my polearm and beating them at their own game :)

[iGnotuS V]

I think the stamina cost for parrying with a shield is less than with a two hander? At least that's how it seems when I tested it out earlier, anyone got facts?