Archery Viable?

[Sabbathius]

I made the mistake of going into magic, reached Elemental, after weeks of grinding, thousands of gold spent to learn spells, and thousands of reagents. Reached Earth Magic, only to realize I can squeeze off 7 nukes, doing max 30 damage, before I am completely out of mana, and at a cost of 14 reagents. Naturally, I'm unhappy with it.

What do you think of Archery? Specifically, what is your skill level, and how much damage you do front and back on a naked target? Should I just drop magic for the black hole that it is, and do Archery instead? For Earth Magic, I need Resin, and I get about 25 timber per 1 resin, on average, so I can have 200 arrows from that wood, for 1/2 of reagents needed for a single nuke, it's just ridiculous.

Advice please? Are you an Archer and HAPPY?

[Buske1]

Are you an Archer and HAPPY?

yes

[cypher123]

yes archery is very good, but its nice to have magic backup for when ur low on stamina so don't give up ur magic just have a bow and arrows equipped when you go out and when your out of mana switch to arrows.

[Sonn Fere]

I made the mistake of going into magic, reached Elemental, after weeks of grinding, thousands of gold spent to learn spells, and thousands of reagents. Reached Earth Magic, only to realize I can squeeze off 7 nukes, doing max 30 damage, before I am completely out of mana, and at a cost of 14 reagents. Naturally, I'm unhappy with it.

What do you think of Archery? Specifically, what is your skill level, and how much damage you do front and back on a naked target? Should I just drop magic for the black hole that it is, and do Archery instead? For Earth Magic, I need Resin, and I get about 25 timber per 1 resin, on average, so I can have 200 arrows from that wood, for 1/2 of reagents needed for a single nuke, it's just ridiculous.

Advice please? Are you an Archer and HAPPY?

To summarize this (and I agree 100%)...

"Magic is broken."

I'm pretty far into spellchanting, working on getting arcane--and let me just say: For all the spells that actually "work" (unlike adept), the spells are about 99% useless... The buffs last AT BEST just over a minute. This is with the durability passive spell AND 50 skill.

[Sabbathius]

Yeah, magic is broken.

So, what kind of damage as you looking at with, say, 25 archery, rank 20 bow? On armored/unarmored target, front and back?

[RagnarRocks]

Unarmored: Front- ~15-22dmg Back- ~18-25dmg
Armored: Front- ~10-15dmg Back ~15-22dmg

Possibly more. My mins are kind of low and my maxes aren't all that high. I've done upwards of 30 damage, but it isn't as common until you get a higher skill.

[5%Luck]

I got clipped in the back with an arrow for 28. Killing blow man I was pissed when I read that!

I have heard with a r60+ darkheart staff fire magic has been hitting for well over 30. even into the 50s range to a targets back!

Archery though is more viable. It is faster has no cooldown and is a one button equip. Spells take at min 2 clicks!

[salaam]

Archery is overpowered and it's fun too. Actually need to aim to hit ppl

[Averidge]

Archery is certainly an awesome skill, sometimes when you aim the arrow doesn't appear (during flight) and it's a dud shot which does NOTHING, just wastes stamina and time.


However when you do hit someone who flees with Archery, it's so satisfying to see the flurry of 20s raping his spinal column.

Infact when people run from me in a fight, they're actually making it easier for myself because I can hit nearly every shot on someone who runs except the bugged shots and since me and my friend are always teaming together, by the time the enemy starts to flee, they're dead effectively.

We do more than double damage with archery and we hit alot more with archery than PVP, so quadruple effect.

Arrows are also SO easy to get. Not only can you farm them from Goblins (about 150 Gold, 120 Arrows) in about 30 minutes, but you can create them via Bowyer (1 Iron Ingot, 1 Wood) which is easy to get, really.

I get about 50-70 Timber after about 30 minutes of macro'ing and same with mining (although mining is more scarce and dangerous).

[myrath]

I For Earth Magic, I need Resin, and I get about 25 timber per 1 resin, on average, so I can have 200 arrows from that wood, for 1/2 of reagents needed for a single nuke, it's just ridiculous.

Advice please? Are you an Archer and HAPPY?

Find access to a grove. The Resin yield is much much higher there.

[amgineex01]

I like archery. The most I've done is 38 dmg to someone's backside. Granted this is with a .73 dmg crafted bow and I'm at 75 archery. However, I don't discount magic as completely useless. I like opening up with a couple of firebolts to someone's backside for 50 dmg a pop, then rape them with arrows before they know what hit them. If my target has no idea I'm around, I can usually kill them in about 10-15 sec this way.

[Sabbathius]

Thanks for responses, all.

One last question: Do you think at some point in future that archery will become useless? Some people say that when everyone is wearing dragon armor or better, and rank 100 shields (shields have high passive arrow protection), arrows will just bounce off people, while spells may or may not.

Thoughts?

P.S. Grove isn't viable, we have many people, and grove is constantly mined out, same as the farm. Each time server resets, there's 60 people with sickles raping the farm 2 mins after the server comes online.

[Beltara]

I am doing water magic myself and I have done 40 damage + 10 stamina in the back with rank 20 staff multiple times with icile 1.0-24.9, it's very situational and sometimes I just stick with bow instead of even bothering to cast magic, but I believe in it still and will continue leveling intelligence and elemental magic.

But yeah at this point it seems very weak when compared to archery as Icicle uses 24 mana and 6 stamina but let's see how it scales with intelligence and higher skill before complaining, if the damage goes up to ~80 I say it's pretty impressive.

Archery is amazing as the arrows arc and you can shoot over the people running in front.

[Rhasta]

Archery is realy fun to play it is much less demanding than magery and it have quite good damage. Arrows are cheap and overall gameplay is fun, you feel some kind of acomplishment if you hit someone from large distance, i dont even have to say how good it feels if its killing blow. :)

[Sabbathius]

I am doing water magic myself and I have done 40 damage + 10 stamina in the back with rank 20 staff multiple times

Yeah, I've done up to 42.1 damage in the back with Acid Arrow from Earth Magic. However, like you say, it costs 24 Mana, so I can fire a max of 7 of those before I go out of mana completely, if they fail to score a kill (if the target turns around, I do 28 damage max in the front, and that's not enough to kill a noob that just logged into the game), it takes a while before I can repeat it. There's Health to Mana, of course, but that's suicide and costs more reagents. There's pots, but that's added expenses. I'm waiting until people hit 25 or 50 on their nukes, and see how much damage goes up.

But yeah at this point it seems very weak when compared to archery as Icicle uses 24 mana and 6 stamina but let's see how it scales with intelligence and higher skill before complaining, if the damage goes up to ~80 I say it's pretty impressive.

It will scale up with Intelligence, I mean, Int alone adds 2 mana per point. So I'm at 28 Int right now, by the time I hit 100 Int, I'll have additional 144 mana points. And with Mana Efficiency skill, spells will cost less than 24 mana. And with reagent saving skill, I forget the name, I think you need 75 GM and 75 Int (or Wis?) to get it, you'll have a chance to save one reagent per cast. So it's not that bad when you say it really fast.

However, what happens while you're increasing Int to 100? Well, other people increase Dex to 100. And they shoot arrows faster, and they hit harder, same as magic. It'll still use only 1 reagent, so no need to waste gold on additional skills. Plus, as Str and Vit goes up, people start running around with 350-400 hitpoints, and suddenly we're back to exactly where we started.

I will admit that there's a possibility that, for example, Stamina Drain in Earth Magic drains like 50 stamina per tick for 10 ticks, and costs 1 reagent, and has no cooldown. It's not bloody likely, but whatever. Then, all the pain of getting to 75 Earth Magic will be totally worth it. But going on previous experience, it'll drain little, and cost 3 reagents per cast, and if you miss, you gain nothing. Compared to the cost of 1 arrow when you miss, they're not comparable. Even in terms of payoff, the time it took you to farm those reagents, it may not be worth it.

Archery is amazing as the arrows arc and you can shoot over the people running in front.

Yeah, and you can shoot between people when they circled someone, but if you tried with magic, you'd nuke half of them. But magic has splash, when you manage to bottleneck a dozen people in doors or on a bridge, it's priceless. Tradeoffs.

Personally I'm switching my focus onto Archery, while stockpiling reagents, just in case.

[hswickman]

I made the mistake of going into magic, reached Elemental, after weeks of grinding, thousands of gold spent to learn spells, and thousands of reagents. Reached Earth Magic, only to realize I can squeeze off 7 nukes, doing max 30 damage, before I am completely out of mana, and at a cost of 14 reagents. Naturally, I'm unhappy with it.

What do you think of Archery? Specifically, what is your skill level, and how much damage you do front and back on a naked target? Should I just drop magic for the black hole that it is, and do Archery instead? For Earth Magic, I need Resin, and I get about 25 timber per 1 resin, on average, so I can have 200 arrows from that wood, for 1/2 of reagents needed for a single nuke, it's just ridiculous.

Advice please? Are you an Archer and HAPPY?

Any AOE type attack should not be as powerful as a single target attack. If it was it would be extrememly overpowered during battles with multiple targets. If the attack is not AOE in any way then it should be comparable to other ranged damage.

[Abremalist]

Magic nukes would be mostly appriciated for mass-combat and situations where a group tries to lock down a passageway or an opening. Then the cost of high-end magic regents are worth it. And there is always mana potions.

Giving five or six enemies 30-40 in damage each and perhaps cause a mass-knockback is amazing as a single player. Then consider five or ten players doing the same thing.

But I love archery, the way arrows stick to enemies. :p

[Makestro]

People forget magic can hit more then 1 person at a time. Archery is good for small group skirmishes but when dealing with larger group on group combat magic if used properly will out damage archery.

[Mulciber]

Find access to a grove. The Resin yield is much much higher there.

QFT ... its almost 1/1 ratio from groves imo

Sulfur is the same from a quarry (no exp w/ mine so cant say if it is the same)

there are times that after hitting the quarry alot I have more sulfur than stone

[Crindle]

I agree with the others about aoe, vs single target.

magery is supposed to suck at lower levels, meaining lower int, wis, stats, and skill. The stamina drain on magic is less right?


Splash damage is awesome. Why not take a melee skill and magery?

Cover both sides?

Magery in every game is like this. Hopefully, av did a good job on making it comparable and not overpowered like most games.

I would level it just for animations. And damn, you did a lot of macroing.

[Poco87]

Viable? More like unfair. And I love it. But still, it's not fair.

[Chuck Zitto]

Guess I have a diffrent opinion on this matter. Seems to me as soon as players have millions of gold which they eventually will or they allow you to donate real life monies for darkfall gold. People will be running around with over 100 of each reg and 100 or more mana pots. Uo never had mana pots and I dont think im gonna like the fact that people will basically have unlimited mana. Same can go for stam pots archers will be able to shoot forever.

[Sabbathius]

Guess I have a diffrent opinion on this matter. Seems to me as soon as players have millions of gold which they eventually will or they allow you to donate real life monies for darkfall gold. People will be running around with over 100 of each reg and 100 or more mana pots. Uo never had mana pots and I dont think im gonna like the fact that people will basically have unlimited mana. Same can go for stam pots archers will be able to shoot forever.

That is one possibility, but I don't think so.

[katahlyn]

Guess I have a diffrent opinion on this matter. Seems to me as soon as players have millions of gold which they eventually will or they allow you to donate real life monies for darkfall gold. People will be running around with over 100 of each reg and 100 or more mana pots. Uo never had mana pots and I dont think im gonna like the fact that people will basically have unlimited mana. Same can go for stam pots archers will be able to shoot forever.

Pots have big cool down.
And DF won't have gold for sale unless it goes f2p. Fat chance of that happening.

[Arisilde]

Yeah, I've done up to 42.1 damage in the back with Acid Arrow from Earth Magic. However, like you say, it costs 24 Mana, so I can fire a max of 7 of those before I go out of mana completely, if they fail to score a kill (if the target turns around, I do 28 damage max in the front, and that's not enough to kill a noob that just logged into the game), it takes a while before I can repeat it. There's Health to Mana, of course, but that's suicide and costs more reagents. There's pots, but that's added expenses. I'm waiting until people hit 25 or 50 on their nukes, and see how much damage goes up.



It will scale up with Intelligence, I mean, Int alone adds 2 mana per point. So I'm at 28 Int right now, by the time I hit 100 Int, I'll have additional 144 mana points. And with Mana Efficiency skill, spells will cost less than 24 mana. And with reagent saving skill, I forget the name, I think you need 75 GM and 75 Int (or Wis?) to get it, you'll have a chance to save one reagent per cast. So it's not that bad when you say it really fast.

However, what happens while you're increasing Int to 100? Well, other people increase Dex to 100. And they shoot arrows faster, and they hit harder, same as magic. It'll still use only 1 reagent, so no need to waste gold on additional skills. Plus, as Str and Vit goes up, people start running around with 350-400 hitpoints, and suddenly we're back to exactly where we started.

I will admit that there's a possibility that, for example, Stamina Drain in Earth Magic drains like 50 stamina per tick for 10 ticks, and costs 1 reagent, and has no cooldown. It's not bloody likely, but whatever. Then, all the pain of getting to 75 Earth Magic will be totally worth it. But going on previous experience, it'll drain little, and cost 3 reagents per cast, and if you miss, you gain nothing. Compared to the cost of 1 arrow when you miss, they're not comparable. Even in terms of payoff, the time it took you to farm those reagents, it may not be worth it.



Yeah, and you can shoot between people when they circled someone, but if you tried with magic, you'd nuke half of them. But magic has splash, when you manage to bottleneck a dozen people in doors or on a bridge, it's priceless. Tradeoffs.

Personally I'm switching my focus onto Archery, while stockpiling reagents, just in case.

this is one of the best posts ever. it sums up exactly what is wrong with magic in simple terms, with examples, and it's impossible to argue with these facts. if you do you are trolling or too stupid to understand.

magic needs some love. melee needs some love. the devs must have all played archers in UO or something... it's pretty much the office scenes in The Noob comic around here. ClicheQuest indeed.

[Ozkar67]

I am also going to start grinding my archery, I won't completely stop raising my magics(i have elementals) but archery rapes.

[Emrys]

Magic in darkfall is powerful but support role none the less...you hit harder than archery but you are there to burst someone down that needs to go down NOW...soloing as a mage is nearly impossible and so its broken in that aspect...this is a low magic world, people are expected to work real hard to become a master mage...anyhow archery is much more common and more "viable" in the common sense of the word but really it all depends on what you want to do.

i enjoy archery and meele when necessary.

[Thlaulan]

Try thinking of this in terms of both is viable together instead of an either or scenario.

Magic btw do have lots of utility skills pr school as well. Personally I like being able to heal myself, archery sucks at healing. It is nice to launch urself, to protect urself against mellee or archery etc. So remember the utility of magic as well as the damage potential.

One other thing, if you as a melee cant run up an archer you are doing something wrong. Wear a shield, run towards archer, block when needed.

Magic, why not view fx. icicle as a good introduction of yourself to a victim that you fx. want to gank. you Hit for 40-50 in back. Then you start to hack away with your two hander at him.

[Abremalist]

The real elite PvP teams comes in on mounts, dismounts (without unsummoning) and then slaughters everything within sight with archery. As a single target you are dead before you know what happened.

[Milo Hobgoblin]

pick up bowery .. and use archery while levelling up your magic schools.

You really need to make your own arrows if you want to be an archer.. having to rely on mob drops and other players in your guild is way too much of a pain in the ass.


eventually magic wont suck.. and there is no reason you can use both.

[Syloc]

Archery is fine, and the OP cries a bit overrated imho. I really hope that Aventurine doesn't buy into the OP crap, because, to be frank, the few friends that i've seen high in magic (even with crappy, lower skill spells) pwn face, to be honest. Sure, you can do damage, but you have to actually aim with Archery.

And no, don't use MM. Use M to S, Air magic, and even launch to complement yourself if your going full Archery.