Unbalanced bowmaking

[avain]

1. As someone already posted bowyery mastery is bugged, because you cannot possibly expect us to advance 0.1 skill with every 8-10 r40 bows you make, while such mining mastery takes literally 15 minutes to level to 25. That arrows don't raise the mastery is ok, but R40 bows?

2. It's ok that low skilled crafters cannot make well sellable items. But after days of making arrows/bows and finally getting mastery (and having bowyery at 100) I could safely assume my bows will get market attention. Well so I'd crafted 10 R40 bows, of which the best was like 0.738 damage compared to 0.72 of the looted ones, and about half of them were under 0.72. Maybe it gets better with mastery skill, but see p.1.

3. There are lots of looted R40 bows already in game. So how is master bowyer supposed to profit with bows that cost ~160g to make, when half of them is below looted spec? R50ers look even more crazy - 500g+rare inglot to make, and players have them already looted in hundreds.

I don't want uber-bows in game killing all pvp. I just would like some better thought over balancing between looted and crafted items (dunno if its the same for weapons and armors).

[MrDDT]

1. As someone already posted bowyery mastery is bugged, because you cannot possibly expect us to advance 0.1 skill with every 8-10 r40 bows you make, while such mining mastery takes literally 15 minutes to level to 25. That arrows don't raise the mastery is ok, but R40 bows?

2. It's ok that low skilled crafters cannot make well sellable items. But after days of making arrows/bows and finally getting mastery (and having bowyery at 100) I could safely assume my bows will get market attention. Well so I'd crafted 10 R40 bows, of which the best was like 0.738 damage compared to 0.72 of the looted ones, and about half of them were under 0.72. Maybe it gets better with mastery skill, but see p.1.

3. There are lots of looted R40 bows already in game. So how is master bowyer supposed to profit with bows that cost ~160g to make, when half of them is below looted spec? R50ers look even more crazy - 500g+rare inglot to make, and players have them already looted in hundreds.

I don't want uber-bows in game killing all pvp. I just would like some better thought over balancing between looted and crafted items (dunno if its the same for weapons and armors).

Your data is bad. Try ranking up weapon mastery skill and compare.

[Gozzon]

Your data is bad. Try ranking up weapon mastery skill and compare.

Quote for truth. I find logging mastery easy to rise compared to mining master tough crafting masteries are quite a lot another thing...

[avain]

Your data is bad. Try ranking up weapon mastery skill and compare.

I won't do that, because I'm into bowyery 100%, but if you feel like sharing where my data is wrong, it would be welcome addition to this thread.

[Dovregubben]

Crafting mastery =/= gathering mastery.

As was said earlier, you should probably compare it to weaponsmithing mastery and Armorsmithing mastery instead.

[avain]

Quote for truth. I find logging mastery easy to rise compared to mining master tough crafting masteries are quite a lot another thing...

Actually mining mastery was as fast to rise before universal nodes as logging mastery - and perhaps still is, when you mine stones instead of more rare ore. Nevermind that, sorry to make an impression I expected weapon mastery to raise as fast. Just not as slow as it is now.

[Elelish]

Its funny how ppl complain about "days of making arrows/bows" :>

You never played a game with a good crafting system, eh?
It was a bit more work then "days of making arrows/bows" to get to the highest skill there...

[avain]

Its funny how ppl complain about "days of making arrows/bows" :>

You never played a game with a good crafting system, eh?
It was a bit more work then "days of making arrows/bows" to get to the highest skill there...

Actually I expected some serious discussion here, and all I see is how I'm complaining and how inexperienced in MMO I am. Well, so you think point 1 is invalid. What about the other ones?

@down PLEASE read something more than first few lines

[TheDor]

Your data is bad. Try ranking up weapon mastery skill and compare.

This.

LOL you can't possibly expect a crafting skill to raise as fast as a gathering skill does.

[Serio889]

1. As someone already posted bowyery mastery is bugged, because you cannot possibly expect us to advance 0.1 skill with every 8-10 r40 bows you make, while such mining mastery takes literally 15 minutes to level to 25. That arrows don't raise the mastery is ok, but R40 bows?

2. It's ok that low skilled crafters cannot make well sellable items. But after days of making arrows/bows and finally getting mastery (and having bowyery at 100) I could safely assume my bows will get market attention. Well so I'd crafted 10 R40 bows, of which the best was like 0.738 damage compared to 0.72 of the looted ones, and about half of them were under 0.72. Maybe it gets better with mastery skill, but see p.1.

3. There are lots of looted R40 bows already in game. So how is master bowyer supposed to profit with bows that cost ~160g to make, when half of them is below looted spec? R50ers look even more crazy - 500g+rare inglot to make, and players have them already looted in hundreds.

I don't want uber-bows in game killing all pvp. I just would like some better thought over balancing between looted and crafted items (dunno if its the same for weapons and armors).

It's the same way with Armorsmithing.

Only one flaw in your post.

Don't craft R40 bows to skill up, make the R0 ones. Right now with the state of the economy, people selling stuff at or way below cost, no reliable way to move goods. It's not smart to make more than one or two Rank 40 bows on the off chance you might find an interested buyer.

Myself, I try to keep a complete set of Plate on me to sell... because I've never gotten more than one person at a time who is SERIOUS about buying plate from me... Keep in mind I was the first person to start selling plate in the Human/Dwarf/Elf alliance.


**Edit, I didn't notice that things below plate weren't giving me skillups =D So I definitely know what you're talking about now... but I don't think it should be a walk in the park to raise mastery.**

[avain]

It's the same way with Armorsmithing.

Only one flaw in your post.

Don't craft R40 bows to skill up, make the R0 ones. Right now with the state of the economy, people selling stuff at or way below cost, no reliable way to move goods. It's not smart to make more than one or two Rank 40 bows on the off chance you might find an interested buyer.

Myself, I try to keep a complete set of Plate on me to sell... because I've never gotten more than one person at a time who is SERIOUS about buying plate from me... Keep in mind I was the first person to start selling plate in the Human/Dwarf/Elf alliance.

Thanks for constuctive feedback and info on armorsmithing. If it's the same skill-up rate as armorsmithing I guess I can't complain :)

As for making R0 vs. R40 bows for skilling - it's just a little bit unrealistic that master smith (or bowyer, well if not a master than journeyman at least) makes thousands of crap to advance. The more advanced items you craft with success the more skill you gain is more intuitive to me (and yes, I'm a noob when it comes to MMO crafting systems).

Good point about your plate. I always carry my best bow on my back too. And I don't have problems to sell R30 bows either. The demand is not overwhelming, but enough for a poor starter to profit a little.

On the sidenote: anyone can confirm if arrows skill-up the mastery?

[Serio889]

I doubt arrows do. Seems like everything pre-75 armorsmithing for me gives me no skill ups. But yeah, I'm in the same boat, I think they could have made crafting gains relevant to the level of item... it's kinda lame that you can get 100 off making rank 0 items.

[avain]

I doubt arrows do. Seems like everything pre-75 armorsmithing for me gives me no skill ups. But yeah, I'm in the same boat, I think they could have made crafting gains relevant to the level of item... it's kinda lame that you can get 100 off making rank 0 items.

Just one question. In the previous post you said one should make R0 items to advance, now you say that pre-75 items don't rise mastery. Am I missing something?

I have 100 bowyery already, so in principle I'm interested in advancing mastery, which - I think - should give me better stats on crafted items.

[Serio889]

Just one question. In the previous post you said one should make R0 items to advance, now you say that pre-75 items don't rise mastery. Am I missing something?

I have 100 bowyery already, so in principle I'm interested in advancing mastery, which - I think - should give me better stats on crafted items.

I edited that post to reflect my findings on pre 75 armorsmith crafts not raisingmastery =D I simply spoke without thinking about it.

[Fall]

Seems like you just level bowyer mastery with r40 stuff. If you're in a small clan or solo crafter, stop right there. 250000g to reach level 25 in bowyer mastery is just ridiculous. I don't wanna even talk about the needed wood/leather.

[pprllo]

I think we should look at the bigger picture.

The problem is not the slow skill gains or the high production costs.

The problem is that the economic system as a whole is not working at all.

[avain]

I think we should look at the bigger picture.

The problem is not the slow skill gains or the high production costs.

The problem is that the economic system as a whole is not working at all.

I'm glad to see such a post finally in this thread. Yes, that is what i was trying to say in my OP in p.2&3. I can base my experiences only on bowmaking, but now I can bet aromorers and weaponsmiths have the same problem with cheap gear from mobs vs. a lot more expensive (and not much better) crafted one.

[Aramir]

I think we should look at the bigger picture.

The problem is not the slow skill gains or the high production costs.

The problem is that the economic system as a whole is not working at all.

Yeah, that is main problem. Current gathering / crafting / economy system needs complete revamp. Now it is boring and unprofitable (you need to compete with NPCs - starting stuff and mobs - higher rank items).
First, worst crafted item (at lowest possible level) should be 10% better than same type looted item. If crafting item takes more time and more resources it needs to be better than loot from mobs. Second - give crafters more options (focus on damage / or durability for start) and reduce crafting times (or implement crafting queue). Third gathering needs revamp - make nodes spawn randomly (and despawn when nothing is left), having little resources but harvesting 1 node is very fast (time is needed to find node, not to mine it).

[ChubtoadSUN]

Mastery is bugged.(my guess the didnt fix it when they fixed crafting skill up)
Normal bowyer is bugged(for us that reached skill 100 we are just lucky), there are two tricks....

Now with r30, the system works.... The bows are aquivalent to rank 32-45 looted bows: it cost 110g to make a r30 bow(including failures % at wisdom=40)

The problem is r40 is not following same line as r30 as my guess is it follow mastery skill(so same as r0 shortbow)
If r40 follow r30 it would be ok price wise, there would be a market.

HOWEVER I have seen ALOT of looted spider bows, no one in their right mind would buy a crafted r50(or r40 for that matter) when you buy them of ppl or farm them yourself.

You cannot skill up mastery, you cannot not sell r40 bows, you can easily get r50 looted, you cannot easily sell anything.

I foresee a huge marked in r30, and not much else tbh.
Now if some1 had 60ish in mastery maybe a marked for r40 will arise as this is the last bow requiring normal materials. But this price for payback of the 10k + skill gain is insane.

The number of trolls in a crafter forum is astounding..

[Serio889]

Mastery is bugged.(my guess the didnt fix it when they fixed crafting skill up)
Normal bowyer is bugged(for us that reached skill 100 we are just lucky), there are two tricks....

Now with r30, the system works.... The bows are aquivalent to rank 32-45 looted bows: it cost 110g to make a r30 bow(including failures % at wisdom=40)

The problem is r40 is not following same line as r30 as my guess is it follow mastery skill(so same as r0 shortbow)
If r40 follow r30 it would be ok price wise, there would be a market.

HOWEVER I have seen ALOT of looted spider bows, no one in their right mind would buy a crafted r50(or r40 for that matter) when you buy them of ppl or farm them yourself.

You cannot skill up mastery, you cannot not sell r40 bows, you can easily get r50 looted, you cannot easily sell anything.

I foresee a huge marked in r30, and not much else tbh.
Now if some1 had 60ish in mastery maybe a marked for r40 will arise as this is the last bow requiring normal materials. But this price for payback of the 10k + skill gain is insane.

The number of trolls in a crafter forum is astounding..


If bowyer mastery is like armorsmithing...you CAN level up mastery, but only off of stuff unlocked at 100/1.0

[avain]

I foresee a huge marked in r30, and not much else tbh.
Now if some1 had 60ish in mastery maybe a marked for r40 will arise as this is the last bow requiring normal materials. But this price for payback of the 10k + skill gain is insane.

Yup, I feel the same way. R40 being not better than R30 at 100/1.0 I still recommend my customers to get R30er, (or even 0.7 dmg R20er) over more expensive R40er. But if Serio is right about skilling up mastery, I can't really expect to have better R40 bows in the future, selling only R30. Something is definitelly wrong here.

[Milo Hobgoblin]

This.

LOL you can't possibly expect a crafting skill to raise as fast as a gathering skill does.

LOL no shit.

He does have a point regarding the quality of crafted bows vs dropped bows..

I know peiople out there with dozens if really nice dropped bows in their banks. They will never pay for a crafted bow because there is just no real advantage to it.

It shouldnt be that way.

[korupt]

I didn't entirely understand the previous posts. What do you need to level bow crafting past 40? Is it rank 40s or can you still do arrows?

Someone said it cost 250k to GM it...I'm wondering how there is people with 100 in it already.

Thanks in advance.

[Jathen]

I didn't entirely understand the previous posts. What do you need to level bow crafting past 40? Is it rank 40s or can you still do arrows?

Someone said it cost 250k to GM it...I'm wondering how there is people with 100 in it already.

Thanks in advance.

You can use anything to level to 100 bowyer (I think). With bowyer mastery you must use r40+ bows to level. The only problem is that the crafted rank 40 bows are no better than looted rank 40 bows.

Obviously broken.

[avain]

You can use anything to level to 100 bowyer (I think). With bowyer mastery you must use r40+ bows to level. The only problem is that the crafted rank 40 bows are no better than looted rank 40 bows.

Obviously broken.

Confirmed: you can skill up BOWYERY even on arrows, almost confirmed: you can skill up BOWYERY MASTERY only on R40+ items, crafted R40 bows ARE better than looted ones, but not enough to justify the price difference and they AREN'T better than R30 crafted ones (at list not at bowyery 100 and mastery 1.0)

[korupt]

The only problem is that the crafted rank 40 bows are no better than looted rank 40 bows.

Obviously broken.

The only reason to why I picked crafts up is cause I was told crafts in this game would beat looted weapons, and I wanted to be able to get a decent weapon if I just died and ran out of gear.

This is really a shame...

[Jathen]

The only reason to why I picked crafts up is cause I was told crafts in this game would beat looted weapons, and I wanted to be able to get a decent weapon if I just died and ran out of gear.

This is really a shame...

It is for the most part. Like avian said rank 30 crafted bows are WAY better than the mob dropped ones. So we have to assume the r40 bows being hardly better than r40 dropped and worse than r30 crafted is a bug and will be fixed.

[TheDor]

You can use anything to level to 100 bowyer (I think). With bowyer mastery you must use r40+ bows to level. The only problem is that the crafted rank 40 bows are no better than looted rank 40 bows.

Obviously broken.

Yes. You can craft arrows or r0 bows to get to 100 bowyer, but to level the mastery skill you need to craft r40 bows.

R40 bows are better then dropped r40s, and I have several that are have a higher damage mod then dropped r50s (less max durability then a dropped r50 though).

[Maximuz]

Confirmed: you can skill up BOWYERY even on arrows, almost confirmed: you can skill up BOWYERY MASTERY only on R40+ items, crafted R40 bows ARE better than looted ones, but not enough to justify the price difference and they AREN'T better than R30 crafted ones (at list not at bowyery 100 and mastery 1.0)

I believe him.
I see him selling bows/arrows all the time, and he even responds to questions.

So what avain says i trust.

[ChubtoadSUN]

Mastery is just skill like bowyer(allthough there is a bowyer 100 requirement)
As mastery is a COMPLETE seperate skill it follow same structure than bowyer.

Meaning.
Rank 40 at mastery 1.0 gives same quality/dmg outcome as Rank 00 shortbows at Bowyer skill 1.0

Rank30 bows get their quality/dmg from bowyer skill and As this HAVE to be 75+ it stands to reason that r30 bows come out great from the beginning

THIS is what i think is bugged.

Also the mastery skill gain of Rank 40+50 bows is something thats need attention.